Latest / Movilidad Renovable / Las empresas energéticas y los combustibles renovables

Transcript

Las empresas energéticas y los combustibles renovables · Movilidad Renovable

0:13
Renewable mobility, the platform program for renewable fuels, very good afternoon. We
0:27
are already in our second programme myself and we are going to get closer to
0:32
the reality that these fuels represent. We will know how expansion plans are produced,
0:39
their important contribution to reducing emissions, which is one of their objectives,
0:44
their reasons for being. We will also talk a little bit about its price
0:48
and if the widespread use will allow us to go down a little bit and
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we have many guests. So directly we started renewable mobility already with the collaboration
0:58
of the platform for renewable fuels and we entered already in renewable mobility with Miguel
1:11
San Martín. The renewable mobility meeting begins and we begin by greeting our guests
1:30
as always, it will accompany us all the programs. And it' s
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not a criminal channel that' s the spokesperson for the renewable fuel platform.
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And it' s not that such a good thing how well there' s
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a pleasure to be here again today on my right. Carlos Day Manager,
1:41
master of renewable fuel projects. In repsol, Carlos how very good Hello,
1:45
how enchanted star Jar A, Director of Communications and Institutional Relations in BP star
1:49
very good, good afternoon, Daniel de Miguel, the head of business development
1:53
in clean energies of Cepa, how very good, good Daniel and Antonio José
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or or pir of Gregorio, that is the ceo of Vertes, how very
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good, very good morning. This is in the studio andÁlvaro Millán,
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who is the president of APPA Biofuels, is with us on the phone.
2:08
Álvaro how very good Hello, Miguelí Hello, everyone how you are.
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Well, first of all, let' s get closer, and think with
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you about APPA Biofuels. Let' s try to locate, if someone doesn
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' t know yet what renewable fuels are, their use the advantages it has.
2:29
But from APPA as an association, what you are doing tell us,
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because we have been meeting for many years now in a group of producers of
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videofuels, both for gasoline and for tenel, as we have been trying to
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respond to the demand for European regulation in reducing missions through liquid fuels and as
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we have been doing for many years. The truth is that we have a
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lot of experience of the problems that have occurred and the problems that will arise.
3:08
I imagine, because with that we can begin to use it as well
3:17
to introduce them into the debate. Antonio, I have to start looking good.
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I, as Alvaro now said, have been in us for many years
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too. We are producers of biotanol that is used for mixtures with gasoline and
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we are today, I believe that one of the fundamental tools for what is
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desaca decarbonization of the transport sector Today is, to say the least, the
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only or one of the most effective tools when it comes to cutting down a
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ton of coo two. So I think that, beyond the debate you are
4:00
seeing in different technologies. I believe that today, because all technologies with zero
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carbon neutrality are necessary and one of them efficient and, moreover, available is
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the Biegano. And in that sense, we have also now passed to the
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three comrades who are here inés what Antonio said, which is a technology The
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two who have intervened already speak of many years and that, moreover, it
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is a complement that will not be opposed to anyone, but it is an
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option perfectly compatible with the rest. Yes, sorry, as you know we
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like to highlight from the platform this always not the transition. We cannot put
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it as a war between technologies, because then we will not succeed in the
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objective and, moreover, because we will not be meeting the needs of all
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sectors. And today this program is very important because, as you said Miguel,
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what we are going to see is that renewable fuels are not words,
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they are facts, they are realities and with very important projects under way that,
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moreover, have very important benefits also for the whole of the Spanish economy,
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projects that have our next guests, who have intervened still, with realities
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in progress, with plans for expansion very important. So, for example,
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Daniel What, such that you, too, are working intensely known. We
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are attacking from different angles with really very, very powerful and very important projects.
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The one we announced just a month and a half ago, with the
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construction of the largest second- generation biofuel plant in Huelva, which was mainly
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aimed at the discharge of the aviation sector, which is one of the most
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complex sectors of de- carronizing and debating due to various technological needs and the
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risk inherent in this sector. And well, it' s a very exciting
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project that is also linked to two other renewable hydrogen projects of green hydrogen,
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along with derivatives of is green hydrogen, like methanol and ammonia, also in
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the area of Huelva, and idea of technologies compatible with all in customers Carlos
6:12
Que, such that, looks from resolves a little in line with what Antonio
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commented earlier, We have been working, therefore, more than twenty- five
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years in the manufacture of biofuels. We started in the 1990s by transforming some
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units that we used to manufacture a component of gasoline. We transform them to
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use to start manufacturing a biocomponent of gasoline from biotanol. As time has passed,
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we have progressed and have been increasing the production capacity of renewable fuels.
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In the year two thousand and eleven, two thousand and twelve began to transform
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other units of refineries that manufactured diesel and began to produce simultaneously diesel and renewable
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fuels. And it is renewable that we have started the biggest projects, because
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four or five years ago, this year we have already started, we already
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have in production the first renewable fuel plant that uses only waste cooking oil,
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thanks animals, residues from the food industry and we manufacture ten renewable and renewable
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aviation fuel that we are already putting on the market. But we didn'
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t stay there. We have a project pipeline. We have another major project
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that is already approved by the Board of Directors and is currently under construction,
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which is a total adaptation of a refinery unit that was previously used to manufacture
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conventional oil. And now, starting in the year two thousand twenty- five,
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we will be able to manufacture ten renewables and, moreover, we are
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also ahead of the future and we have a demonstration plant, no longer of
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fuels or renewable fuels. Let' s say with the most mature technological routes
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but what we call synthetic fuels. That is to say, we are going
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to combine electrolytic hydrogen and not leave it green produced from renewable sources. We
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' re going to combine it with an ugly two that we captured from the
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refinery and we' re going to combust it and turn it into synthetic fuels,
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into tenel, kerosene or gasoline for the current vehicles and fleets and star.
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You also have there in Castellón, if I am not mistaken the projects
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is. That' s the refinery. The transformation of our Castilian refinery into
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an integrated clean energy center through the production of renewable fuels green hydrogen is very
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aligned with the strategy we announced just over three years ago. To reach net
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emissions in the year two thousand fifty or earlier. This impacts our emissions of
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range one or two and three, is to tell us the emissions of our
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own processes, but also of our products. We, in fact, our
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castellon refinery already co- processed as renewable estiles. It' s from the
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year two thousand sixteen. We talk about how if from advanced ranuables, we
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use waste used cooking oil. He has already mentioned animal gras and we already
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have in place a plan for the start- up of an independent plant,
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different technology for production, both of how it has sustainable aviation and of hbo
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100 that is hydrotreated vegetable oil, a production capacity of 500 thousand tons that
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is, not transformation process and reality already today, so you are saying a
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little, you can take the opposite. We are now at a crucial moment
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for the deployment, for standardisation, for the use of renewable fuels. That
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' s when you have to give that push, that takeoff looks. I
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believe that we are at a decisive moment in deciding what investments we will have
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to make to meet the demand that we anticipate in the future in our sector.
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Investments are very long- term investments and we need to be very clear
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on what the rules of the game and regulation are going to be. And,
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therefore, if this is a decisive moment, because of the issue of
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investment. Yes, because, Miguel, I think this thing Carlos says is
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very important, because it may seem good. There is already 100% renewable
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fuel in service songs in our country, fully compatible with current vehicles. And
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this may seem to be that before yesterday they have started to work and this
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is the result of many years of research, of having the most flexible and
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competitive refining system in the new European. I mean, this is the result
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of a lot of research, a lot of investment and a lot of development.
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No. No, no, he wasn' t born out of nowhere.
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Álvaro, you were going to write it down. Yes, not that
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what I was going to say is that it is not just a decisive moment,
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as they have explained now in mexicating them, but also that we have
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to see something positive, which is already a time when we are talking a
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lot about this, that even this program that you are doing to you.
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This diffusion is being made to the general public and everyone knows that also because
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there is availability of fuel or fuel 100% in the stations of service,
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it is already known And then among all can be made a greater defense of
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this product, of this technology that also, as has been explained very well
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and explained very well Antonio, is a technology that was already used many years,
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that the economic cost can be much lower than the one now bet on
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a drastic change in the use of the energies to feel, to put in
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in pretty, something that, perhaps it is much easier to do with something
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known and something that has been working on as it has said so many years
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ago. Indeed, as with carlos too, for example Daniel, that security
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to be able to address all those investments that are millionaires, that are being
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made. That' s, that' s very important. There are four
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very important pillars in what is the energy transition, which we cannot just look
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at as an objective, but as a path we must take, a path
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on which we can start today. Fuels are very well known to all of
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us. They allow to download from the moment, from the first moment we
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start to use them, and they do not need any change of infrastructure or
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of engines for the fact that interrupts you Let' s see the first program
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when we are going to refuel a percentage of what we have already they are
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renewable. That is in terms of diesel, in terms of gasoline, all
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of them are already included low- carbon fuels, with which we have already
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started to act. But we really need a number of pillars, as I
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said quite, quite relevant and very clear. First, a clear regulation that
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we are already on the way to the European Union. The President of the
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European Parliament has said this clearly that all the decisions of the next ten years
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will be critical and technological development will be very relevant. We cannot leave aside
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any technology or any solution. Public incentives and public support for all solutions is
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very important to be all one and, of course, the Union, between
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different entities, between different companies, because, as we said before, they
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are very relevant investments, they are very long- term investments and we need
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collaboration between all of them. And I would add, if I may,
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that I fully agree with a fair taxation based on this today, it does
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not seem reasonable, for example, that biotane, because it has a taxation
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based on litres, when it is one of the most ponable and, above
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all, most efficient tools for ventin a natur lo menon, will end exactly
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then today, the taxation that we have is based on liters and that,
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therefore, does not allow the development that is taking place, for example,
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in other countries, countries such as France, countries such as Holland, countries
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such as Belgium, where it has a implantation of these biofuels, specifically bitonol,
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because it is very extensive. Yeah, plus, it' s very
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important to remember that not everything is electrifiable. There are sectors that are key,
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such as the aviation sector. It' s been mentioned before. The
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cults laviacer responsible for two percent of global emissions. Eighty per cent of this
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emissions emissions occur in large radio flights, for which there is no alternative to
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transport and renewable fuels are the solution that exists today to carve out this sector,
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achieving a reduction of approximately eighty per cent compared to the fossil alternative.
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So these investments have to be made today and regulation is giving us signals.
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In fact, last year the text was already published as proof of the fuel
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aviation, which already launches interview signals, of mandates that are established at the
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level of consumption of this type of fuel. It is that then, for
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what you are saying, by the pillars that he pointed out, since nin
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Antonio, it is very important what Europe will say that regulation and then continue
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with the development for that technology, for the aids of the public administrations,
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for that Union of all. So, where do you want to go with
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a crystal ball, almost because we have to have choices where you think that
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European regulation could at least not penalise renewable fuels. I believe that the important
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thing here is to try to maintain what we have always asked for, which
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is technological neudality, that is, regulation, to let different technologies compete and
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it is the fio market itself that selects which are the winning options. I
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personally believe that here, in reducing emissions, especially in transport, there is
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no single solution. There is not going to be a single solution for all
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customers and all users. We need all the solutions. The electric car is
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a great solution for specific cases and for very specific uses, but it will
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not serve everything. There are sectors that are difficult to electrify and therefore renewable
16:25
fuels will play a key role. But it is also in those where electrification
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is most possible, not all users, where we have the same needs.
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And, therefore, I think it is a mistake to set aside solutions that
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are cost efficient and that, in addition, are a reality right now.
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And above all, to add that, coinciding completely with Carlos that there is
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no single solution in mobility, also to say that until that solution is reached,
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even if it is unique, a transition must be made, because trying
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to reduce emissions and to reduce or minimize what climate change is, we have
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today biofuels, which are an efficient tool and which are to decarbonize the transport
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sector. And what is not at issue is that if the solution came 30
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years from now, then we are now going to issue and we are not
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using biofuels today. It is that what Antonio says is very important because,
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as Carronol said before, in the end European regulation, what he has done
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is to bet on electrification as a priority and reserves renewable fuels for those uses
17:30
that are not electrifiable. But this is having the consequence, because a delay
17:33
in the reduction of missions if we really bet on renewable fuels in terms of
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taxation, as Antonio said, but also telling the user that it is a
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real alternative with which it can already begin to decarbonize today, because it is
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that the process would be much faster, of course, also more efficient,
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for the consumer and for the sectors, as Carlos said, but also,
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faster or I think we are missing a very good opportunity to start gradually reducing
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emissions in transportÁlvaro. What I think too and that you have explained phenomenally
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among all of us is that politicians or regulators have to be responsible. They
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have to see that this transition has to be done little by little and it
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has to be explained very well. It has to be made clear to the
18:25
public what options they have so that in their day- to- day lives,
18:30
they can reduce or bet on the reduction, on the best use of
18:34
energy and, through this explanation, users demand that companies use energy responsibly.
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And what they can' t do is what they can' t do.
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I believe that it is quite irresponsible and rather malicious to show the public that
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the only solution is electrification and that, perhaps, the fuels, yes,
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that it is true that perhaps in the past they could contaminate a lot.
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Now, along with biofuels, the combustion engine emits much less than you do
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before. So, I think you have to explain it very well you have
19:22
to know today They are responsible for regulating that biofuels are a real alternative and
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it is an optimal alternative now that and that does not mean that the other
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is not good. I think combining them all together, a good combination,
19:37
would make the target much more feasible. For everyone, in fact, from
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one euro three or one euro four to one euro six. We have the
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euro and tay, but the reductions of almost seventy- five percent, less
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than everyone has made an effort to try, because center manufacturers, because you
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too to go reduce those emissions. Yes, this is very important because in
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a combustion engine I have propelled with renewable fuels, it can be as climate
20:10
neutral as an electric vehicle powered by renewable energy. And this is very important
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because what we need to be clear about is that the zero- emission vehicle
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does not exist. There is no alternative zero emissions, there is not,
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above all, as you say very well Inés, what there is look at
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is the whole life cycle to this day and precisely in that the biofuels,
20:33
because they are not the ones that manage to reduce those emissions, because,
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compared to fossil fuels, because in seventy eighty percent andÁlvaro pointed out,
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Álvaro users has said. In this second part we will talk a little bit
20:48
about users who know that they can be refueled, that they are in the
20:55
companies making efforts, that there are hundreds of service stations already in which can
20:59
be refueled 100 percent renewable to cause charlos Estrella or or Antonio or Daniel.
21:07
Raising awareness is the users who can catch it. Not anymore, renewable fuels
21:12
that are put in the 100% sold service stations have to comply with a
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series of technical requirements and standards, the specifications that, moreover, are used
21:22
by the motor developers to build the engines and the vehicles. Therefore, and
21:30
this in addition, it is checked and checked in every batch of product that
21:34
is placed on the market. But it is also that we, before putting
21:37
a product on the market, test it, test it both in the laboratory
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and in fleets of real vehicles. And we, in this case the day
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is renewable and renewable gasoline that we put in the service stations of rep Sol.
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It' s crowded, and it hasn' t reported, we haven
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' t reported any problems in the vehicles. But, besides, I'
22:00
m in Spain. It is a market, because it has started right now
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relatively recently, but there are already Scandinavian countries, in Finland and Norway where
22:07
they have been consuming this type of product for years and no problems are reported
22:11
in the market. We are therefore confident that there will be no problems in
22:15
the fleets. Last week they were in charge of racing, logistics group and
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told us all the tests we had done on renewable fuels and they were delighted.
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They had not, therefore, assumed a modification of engines, an increase
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of costs that an electric truck cla three times, a change of hydrogen is
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worth six times more than a normal truck. And they' re real tests
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that have been done on star roads. Yes, indeed a thousand is going
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to comment that precisely one of the benefits of renewable fuels is the compatibility with
22:47
existing equipment, with existing infras soctoras. To say, there is no need
22:52
for additional investments. So this, of course, is an advantage for your
22:56
distraught. That' s a lot of tests in different types of engines.
23:02
There has been no problem. None of them are already being consumed regularly.
23:07
It is available in many service stations throughout Spain and, as we said before,
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countries take us, European countries clearly take us the lead, Germany,
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Italy, Nordic countries where it has been consumed for quite some time and with
23:22
excellent results. Then no doubt about it. Now I go with a stone
23:30
Antonio, not in case you want to say anything else about this. Not
23:32
the truth but nothing more than adding the price, which is another issue than
23:37
perhaps a user, because it is a little higher than the traditional fuel.
23:45
It is assumed that with the widespread use as everything, in the end they
23:51
will come down if you think of the price I can make some good notes
23:56
to begin with, one thing that Antonio said before basic is taxation. I
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mean, right now a 100% renewable fuel is paying exactly the same taxes
24:02
as if it were a hundred percent fossil. This makes no sense from the
24:06
point of view of encouraging their consumption. No, there is no, there
24:08
is no signal to the consumer to bet on this technology. But, in
24:12
addition, like any other as their production increases, they will increase their costs
24:18
and will therefore be competitive. No, and that is why it is very
24:22
important what they said before and to encourage the production of renewable fuels so that
24:27
once produced on a scale, those costs will decrease. Therefore, the cost
24:32
is not going to be a problem. In other words, there have been
24:34
studies that say that the liter of synthetic fuel is a lie, that is,
24:40
technology is advancing, costs are going to decrease, but we have to
24:44
bet on it. I think we also have examples in neighbouring countries. For
24:48
example, in France, where it has more emissions- based taxation. For
24:53
example, I read eighty- five, which is eighty- five per cent
24:56
of gasoline, has a penetration rate of almost nine per cent of consumption,
25:02
while in Spain there is no filling station where it is supplied or that of
25:06
ten, which is ten per cent of vietano, ninety per cent of gasoline
25:10
has seems to be gasoline or the most consumed fuel, with a penetration quota
25:15
of almost sixty per cent, with which I believe that, as I said
25:21
inés, with a taxation based that is not based on litres, but rather
25:25
a taxation because it takes into account emissions, etc, because it can be
25:29
achieved. Of course, massive deployment and already taxation might also add regulation.
25:38
Not obviously, one of the fundamental issues for the production of renewable fuels is
25:45
the availability of raw materials and this is reflected in the regulation. The list
25:49
of currently desperable raw materials is limited. It is very important to extend it
25:55
according to the sustainability criteria, so that really good, as there are more
26:00
options ironically have less impact on the cost. Recently, for example, cover
26:03
crops, which are crops, have been included as crops among the main crops
26:07
for what is the recovery of soil between crops. This is an example.
26:12
No, but that is very important the availability of raw materials that now that
26:18
costs are not in that sense more competitive. And about raw materials, see
26:22
Miguel, we' ll talk later. We can do spoiler on another program,
26:26
but it' s true that it' s one of the big hits
26:30
that is usually put on renewable fuels. And quite the opposite. It is
26:32
a great opportunity for the circular economy, for the development of rural Spain.
26:37
Carlos said earlier, the 100% renewable fuel is being manufactured with a used
26:41
kitchen scab that we used to throw in the sink, not with now food
26:44
waste in the availability of raw materials. There are great opportunities to explore,
26:49
as Estrella said, also from the regulatory point of view, and so are
26:53
making all the investments and all the projects that our guests have told us Carlos
26:59
x S toyajar to Daniel by MiguelÁlvaro Millán, Antonio José and Inés.
27:04
Thank you so much for joining us, for also explaining to us everything you
27:10
are doing and until a next time. Thank you very much, Thank you,
27:41
good afternoon, renewable mobility with Miguel San Martín, Madrid, one hundred
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