Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Lee about his choice of Ascension of the Cybermen (1/2)

Transcript

Talks to Lee about his choice of Ascension of the Cybermen (1/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker quicker.
• 0:37
  Welcome back to Hamster. With a blood pen Knife, The
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  Doctor Who commentary podcast. I am travelling the world today,
• 0:46
  which thrills me no end. I'm in.
• 0:49
  Am I in New York today? Is that where I am?
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  Are in New York. Yes.
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  How's New York on this fabulous Easter Sunday?
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  It's a little, little rainy, but comfortable.
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  You know, it's, it's, it's not bad.
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  You know it, It makes sense for April, I guess.
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  A little rainy. That's very confusing, you know,
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  because I always assume that America is really hot and
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  England's really cold. But it's absolutely.
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  Beautiful sunshine here in the UK today.
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  New York can be quite variable. And as summer starts to roll in,
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  it could feel like the desert, you know, or, or a humid jungle
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  or something like that. Yeah, we get every bit of
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  weather in New York City. People are surprised sometimes.
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  I had a really blissful week in New York, right?
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  I I went across so cynically like I don't want to go see a
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  load of buildings like grumpy Englishmen.
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  Abroad. And then I turned up and was
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  probably, it's the second, my second most favorite place I've
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  actually visited. It was just so vibrant.
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  But I was told immediately, I know you're a tourist.
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  I said, why is that? It goes because you're just
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  walking around looking up everything like, whoa,
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  everything's so big. Do you see a lot?
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  Were you stopping in the middle of the side?
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  Yeah, yeah, that guy. Sorry.
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  And I love musical Thea so times of Jesus Christ, man, there was
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  a show everywhere. Can't go wrong, yeah?
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  Do you know, I suppose I should introduce you.
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  Really. So we're just talking away here,
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  and I've not even told anybody who you are, Lee.
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  Very welcome to a hamster with a blunt pen knife.
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  Now I hear that you are a Doctor Who fan.
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  Yeah, You know, I kind of kind of like it, I guess since the
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  80s and so forth. Oh, yeah, absolutely.
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  I absolutely love Doctor Who. I'm a big Doctor Who fan.
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  And it may. No, I I think it's my favorite
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  science fiction franchise. Yeah.
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  You say since the 80s and we've already had a slightly
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  contentious moment when you told me your age before we started
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  recording and I refused to believe.
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  That a handsome young man like you was the age that you
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  suggested that you were. The 80s.
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  All right, So what was your in then?
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  What was your first Doctor Who? Well, you know, I, I, I
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  mentioned, I mentioned the 80s because I would say somewhere
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  around that time I had clarity on him.
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  So for example, they used to play every Saturday morning on
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  one of our local stations, Doctor Who, but it was usually
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  cleaning day or something like that.
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  So sometimes the TV would come on and I'd catch a little bit of
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  it or something else like that. So I think my first memory is
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  Genesis of the Dollar. With.
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  With Tom Baker and Lee Martyr. Oh, his name just flew out of my
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  head. But you know, the doctor and Ian
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  running through that mutant, you know, wilderness and I think he
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  got caught by the clam. I, I may not be remembering this
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  right, but I think that was it. And I, I'm, I think I was either
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  in junior high school, I think, or elementary.
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  So I hadn't really seen whole episodes.
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  It was very hard for me to see anything.
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  It, it, it was later, because of PBSI started catching an episode
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  here and I started catching an episode there.
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  And there was a point where, you know, my, my parents would let
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  me watch a bit of it because they control the TV at that time
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  before I got my own. But so when I would come home
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  from school, at one point I would watch Doctor Who Monday
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  through Friday, they let me watch it for half an hour.
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  Yeah. And and then I had an aunt.
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  And when I would go visit her on Saturdays, they would they would
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  play an episode or something like that.
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  And she would let me watch it too.
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  And that's when I started becoming more consistent about
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  it. Excuse me, Monday through
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  Friday. What's this?
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  I wasn't having Doctor Who on my TV every day during the what's?
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  What the Hell's going on? Was it on every day?
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  Every day. PBSPBS used to have a schedule
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  where they would show it like it was.
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  It was pretty cool and it was. If it wasn't for that, I
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  wouldn't have gotten locked in because I only saw it
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  sporadically. That once a week stuff you guys
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  were dealing with, that's a bunch of crap. 1/2 an hour a
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  week, all right. I don't, I don't know how you
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  live like that. That's that's like inhumane.
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  That's UK. It's like a third world country,
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  honestly, it really is. We're rationed everything.
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  OK. So, So what you were you sort of
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  working your way through the mid 80's, the late 80s, so.
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  So it was, it was starting with some Tom, but the consistency I
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  had was, was with Peter Davison especially.
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  That's when I got my, my own TV it it was Peter Davison.
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  And that's when I had it. I started experiencing some
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  consecutive storytelling, but I also got things like they would
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  do specials like regeneration specials.
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  So you would see the first episode of a regeneration or
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  something like that. So I began to get exposed to
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  other things and I remember my first black and I think it was
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  my first black and white doctor, unless I saw it in the
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  Regeneration Crisis special. But it's this black and white
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  episode. There's a woman wondering these
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  corridors lost. I think you're you're already
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  going to be getting the red. And she's she's.
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  Really getting stressed out and everything backs up against the
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  wall and I hear this music. I did not know what I was
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  watching, by the way. I did not know what I was
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  watching. And I, you know, and it's
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  Barbara up against that wall. And then the next episode
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  continues and I discovered that not only did I love black and
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  white Doctor Who, but I loved William Hart.
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  Now you know. Oh God, you're speaking my
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  language. Isn't he the best?
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  Like Governor? Absolutely fantastic.
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  I, I till this day, I think it still holds up in an incredible
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  way. And I say that without any
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  denial of the, you know, the things that people criticize
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  about that run or, or even the actor himself.
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  But no, I absolutely love it. You.
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  You do not have to twist my arm to watch a William Hartnall.
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  And I probably love episodes that would make your eyes roll
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  like I. I'm that person who likes the
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  sensor, right? Oh well, there had to be someone
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  out there, didn't they? Things I like about it's.
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  Me so I mean, you must have been pretty excited then this week
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  with with the newly released Daleks Master Plan episodes.
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  Yeah, I, I, I thought, I thought that was pretty cool, but I
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  believe there are more episodes missing if I remember correctly.
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  Right. Yeah, yeah.
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  So I, I manage my excitement about that.
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  I don't know if that makes sense, but it's like I, I, I
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  would like to see the rest. I I hope they find more of it.
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  I I appreciate the animation, but some of the newer animations
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  it it doesn't work as well for me as much as like it, you know,
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  don't laugh, but the the animation style of the invasion,
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  it, it felt like that captured more of the spirit.
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  Of the That was gorgeous, yeah. Yeah, and I know they've gotten
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  better. What's the last one I saw?
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  I know they got a bit better, but something from those early
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  ones, there's a bit of, there's a bit more character in the
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  animation, like even the moon base.
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  And yeah, so I, I some of the newer choices, it doesn't, it
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  leaves me less excited about animation.
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  I'll just never forget. Do you remember in I don't know
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  if you watched Fury from the deep and suddenly everyone's
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  like Mr. Tickle. They've all got enormous arms
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  that reach like what's happening.
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  There, what is going? On I think they were going for
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  scale, but like, it wasn't that show, was it?
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  It was a show with little money. You don't have to add add money
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  via the animation. And I didn't capture the like
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  the cragginess of Patrick Troughton's face and the shadow,
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  the shading they were using before.
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  I I wouldn't mind them using more modernized effect and even
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  increasing the scale. But they they left things behind
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  that they shouldn't leave have left behind in my opinion.
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  And I know they're working with a different studio because you
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  have to be fair. Well, like, why are you
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  expecting Picasso to draw like Vando?
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  Golf game fan golf. Forgive me, you know I'm
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  American so. So that's a beautiful.
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  Way of putting it, although I still think that Invasion
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  Animation is probably the the the best they ever did.
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  The only unfortunate thing is the 2 episodes there to animate
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  barely featured bloody side men which is on for that's why they
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  did. So bad for them.
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  I felt so bad for the. Wow, we're doing a side man
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  story, you say? Yeah, sorry, the two you've got.
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  So well, let's skip across into the new series.
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  So will you like an instant convert with the new series?
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  It's coming back in 2005. Did you watch it from the off?
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  I watched it from the off and I got AI was able to get a bootleg
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  version of it because it wasn't even airing in the United States
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  at the time. And I think it you know, I'm I
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  may be misremembering it. And unfortunately I destroyed
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  the little by accident, the little DV no, but it might have
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  been ACDI played it from. It.
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  And I think it even had the original theme from the 60s on
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  that I, I feel like I must have, you know, in your memory cheats.
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  I. Couldn't have been, but I think
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  I'm right. And so when it was televised,
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  that's when I heard the the intro.
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  So I wonder if that was some form of pre release that I got
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  to see for the first time. But I stuck with it.
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  I I enjoyed the the heck out of it.
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  It only got better as as it it went along, you know, and I say
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  this not ever, not watching it and never feeling that some
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  things were flawed in a way, but overall it was so good.
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  I I would have been happy with another season of Eccleson, but
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  I think for a one season doctor, he couldn't have had a better
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  season. You know, he just couldn't you,
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  you know, who would have killed before even one season like him?
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  His predecessor who got that movie So and he would have been
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  fantastic. But Eccleson was was so good and
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  I'm enjoying him on big finish now that he's travelling with
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  Rose at the end. So it's it's.
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  Well, you know who else is who's taking the leap over to Big
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  Finish lately? Jodie Whittaker.
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  Jodie Whittaker and Mandate Gill, of course.
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  And that's why we're. Here today we're going to talk
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  about Ascension of the Cyberman and the Timeless Children.
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  And Lee, may I say that is the boldest intro swing to
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  absolutely a blunt pen knife I've ever seen before.
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  And I know we sort of mooted a couple of episodes, but you came
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  at me and said, I really love the 13th Doctors era.
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  And I think you named a couple of stories.
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  And I saw this on the list and I was like, oh, please, let's
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  start there. Let's start with blowing a hole
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  in continuity. So.
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  What about? This era, this this divisive
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  era. What do you think?
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  I feel like it remembered some of the best qualities of the
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  first Russell T Davies series, you know, some of the heart that
• 13:00
  the attention it pays to background characters, even if
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  they're only on there for 5 minutes and so forth.
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  There was a connection between people in the storytelling.
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  You know, I hear about people talking about the some people
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  talk about the floors and characterization so far, but I
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  felt like there was a lot of heart there as long as with the
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  science fiction and and the danger.
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  And I absolutely love that. And I was experiencing Steven
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  Moffett fatigue big time. I was so I was so ready for him
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  to go. And I want to come back to that
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  to anybody who's listening, who's a big stop Steven Moffett
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  fan, Please be patient with me as I as I as I go here.
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  But like, I was ready for Amy to go.
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  I loved Clara, but I was ready for her to go at that time.
• 13:50
  And I couldn't wait. And then that sneaky son of a
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  Steven Moffett comes out with his last season and he wins me
• 14:02
  back like, big time. Like, I couldn't believe how
• 14:05
  much I enjoyed that season. And if he had had another
• 14:09
  season, I think I would have loved it as well.
• 14:12
  And for me, he forgot some of those elements in storytelling
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  in those previous season. There's little I would say to
• 14:20
  change about those previous seasons, except he forgot to pay
• 14:24
  attention to those things. Like when he had guest stars, I
• 14:27
  almost never cared about him. One of the exceptions was from
• 14:31
  an episode I didn't like and he didn't write.
• 14:34
  And it I wish I can remember a name, but I know you'll know who
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  it is. It's in the cold blood, cold
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  blood. Oh, the.
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  Geologist. Mira seals character, yes.
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  I can't remember her name. She goes in the TARDIS.
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  She has the romance with the older guy, doesn't she?
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  Yes. Yeah, yeah, she.
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  Should have been traveling in that TARDIS.
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  She should have been traveling in that TARDIS.
• 14:59
  Period. Full stop.
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  The end. I mean, you don't have to preach
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  to me. About the flaws of the Steven
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  Moffett era, people have lost patience with me over the years
• 15:08
  because I'm I'm very mean about that time, although like you, I
• 15:12
  did feel as if you know what you said there about the sort of the
• 15:16
  best elements of the Rusty Davis period.
• 15:18
  The first period I felt season 10.
• 15:21
  So the bill season with Peter Capaldi, that started to
• 15:25
  remember that stuff as well. And it was, you know, the with
• 15:29
  the, the Capaldi Dr. at the university and they're all being
• 15:34
  so likeable and the storytelling was a lot simpler.
• 15:38
  And I was like. Yes, yes, yes.
• 15:40
  Like where is this Polly? Polly is is likeable.
• 15:43
  He he has range. He got a bit more range.
• 15:46
  He could still be dark, but that warmth between them, which blows
• 15:51
  my mind that their additional interaction wasn't great, but I,
• 15:55
  I, I love that so much. It just it it hit everything.
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  And I do go back and watch Steven Moffett episodes and
• 16:03
  enjoy them quite a bit. So, you know, I don't want to
• 16:07
  dismiss that, you know, there were just elements of things
• 16:11
  that I don't know. I felt like he needed another
• 16:14
  story editor with him who's kind of boring.
• 16:16
  Who says, wait a minute, what's the point?
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  You're trying you. Know what I mean?
• 16:21
  Just write it back a bit, Steven.
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  Yeah, just yeah. I I I do wonder.
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  And actually with Rusty Davis his second period, I do wonder
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  if people just weren't there enough saying, do you know what?
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  Maybe don't do that. Like, he didn't have that, and
• 16:39
  eight episodes was really too short for his type of
• 16:43
  storytelling. I felt that 10 episodes were too
• 16:48
  short for Chris Chipmills, right?
• 16:51
  Well, let's talk very quickly about Jodie Whittaker falling to
• 16:56
  Earth smashing for a train. And disruption The lives of her
• 17:04
  companions. Was it an immediate love story
• 17:08
  with you and the 13th Doctor? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 17:13
  Immediate love story. Love.
• 17:15
  Jodie Whitaker. You know, I was familiar from
• 17:17
  her from Attack the Block. I don't know if.
• 17:20
  Yeah, yeah. You know, you know what?
• 17:23
  Talk about a movie with some really good actors that came out
• 17:27
  of there. You know, Treadway, John Boyega,
• 17:30
  who's amazing and like anything he seems to do with Nick Frost
• 17:35
  was in there, I think, or is it I always get Nick Frost, Nick
• 17:37
  Peg wrong. I think it's Nick Frost.
• 17:38
  Nick Frost had a role in there and just anyway, but I'm I I
• 17:43
  drift. So immediately I connected with
• 17:46
  her immediately I connected with the companions, which was so
• 17:50
  smart and I was so upset when Grace died.
• 17:58
  Oh. Yes.
• 18:00
  I was so because, you know, I would not change the three that
• 18:06
  she travelled with, but if there was a way to make it work, she
• 18:11
  should have been on that TARDIS and that she's fantastic person
• 18:14
  who would have been the most ready to be on that TARDIS.
• 18:18
  I don't know if you got that, but do.
• 18:20
  You remember, you know, just before she starts clawing up to
• 18:23
  her death and she's got those two electric wires that she's
• 18:26
  going to plug in, and she gives Bradley Walsh a kiss.
• 18:28
  And she goes, right, I'm going like I thought, oh, she'd be
• 18:31
  amazing. Yeah, yeah.
• 18:34
  Yeah, again, I wouldn't change them, but she's fantastic.
• 18:39
  I I've even checked out her first season on a detective show
• 18:42
  called Ellis, which is a very different role for her.
• 18:45
  I'm so used to her being warm that it's it's but actors should
• 18:50
  be able to play all of everything.
• 18:52
  So yes, I I love the woman to fell the earth.
• 18:54
  I did not like Tim Shaw so much. I didn't dislike him as much as
• 19:01
  I did in Oh, the Battle of. Go on, go on, Charles I.
• 19:07
  No, I I'm the slaveen planet is jumping into my head.
• 19:11
  Battle. Score.
• 19:13
  Of Kodos. There you go.
• 19:16
  I'll suffer so you don't have to.
• 19:18
  Yeah. God bless you.
• 19:20
  Are you, are you not a fan of the dentist?
• 19:21
  Then? He's got all those lovely teeth
• 19:23
  all over his head. The concept was fine.
• 19:26
  There's something in the realization of him.
• 19:29
  And I even think the actor has it.
• 19:32
  You know, actors have it. I can tell that actor has it.
• 19:35
  I can't fully explain why that didn't work for me.
• 19:40
  It, it might have been the story.
• 19:41
  I, I, I, I can never quite nail that because it seemed to have
• 19:45
  enough of the elements that it should have been great.
• 19:48
  So yeah. I remember watching, I remember
• 19:53
  watching series 11 and I really enjoyed it.
• 19:56
  I enjoyed the change of pace and all the things you said there.
• 19:59
  I enjoyed the fact that suddenly we were sort of doing real
• 20:02
  people and real conversations between people.
• 20:07
  But I thought that first series was, whilst very good, quite, I
• 20:13
  don't know it didn't have but the sort of dynamism that.
• 20:17
  Some of the previous years had and then the resolution, the
• 20:21
  first Dalek New Year special here and I was like, oh.
• 20:25
  Baby. And then we had started.
• 20:28
  Then we had Spy Fall and that master reveal on the plane.
• 20:32
  And, and it was just one bloody knockout after another, all the
• 20:36
  way through to stuff like Haunting of Villa di Darcy.
• 20:39
  And I was like this, this. Era is rolling, you know.
• 20:44
  I I don't know if I'm eating up too much time, but can I tell
• 20:46
  you a little story? OK, no, tell me, tell me.
• 20:49
  The the season premiere of 12. Go on, tell me.
• 20:52
  OK so I watch it with a friend from another state so we
• 20:56
  synchronize when we watch it. So I don't watch it the night of
• 21:00
  or anything. An hour before I'm supposed to
• 21:04
  watch spy fall one or something like that.
• 21:06
  Maybe 2 social media goes. I can't believe the master.
• 21:11
  Is that? Without dragging this out
• 21:18
  because of previous experiences I had, right?
• 21:21
  Like season 10, Bill is gay, Mandasian Cybermen are coming
• 21:28
  back. I cannot tell you the number of
• 21:30
  things that was spoiled for me. I tamp down social media, said I
• 21:34
  didn't like Doctor Who, you know, which is a silly thing to
• 21:37
  have to do an hour or two. So that moment was robbed for
• 21:42
  me. I'm a person who when the Daleks
• 21:45
  came out of that sphere in Season 2, I jumped the.
• 21:49
  Boy out of my. You know, and I and I, I was
• 21:53
  like yelled at the screen. I'm like, I don't do that.
• 21:55
  But you know, I had these moments through Doctor Who and
• 21:59
  these sobs rush to post that sort of stuff.
• 22:05
  That's so. Annoying.
• 22:07
  That's so annoying because that, that, that particular moment,
• 22:12
  that reveal on the plane, that's one of the best surprises that's
• 22:16
  ever hit me. Like I I did jump out of my seat
• 22:19
  going no. Because I couldn't.
• 22:21
  Believe that he'd managed to fool me with Sasha Duan's, you
• 22:25
  know, lovely spy. Oh, I've been totally
• 22:29
  hoodwinked. Amazing performance.
• 22:32
  Yeah, so good. Well, I mean, we're going to see
• 22:34
  a bit of him today, right? Yes.
• 22:38
  So, OK, so we we're sort of rolling through Series 2.
• 22:42
  And there's rumble rumblings in the fan sphere that there could
• 22:47
  be some. Heavy mythology explosions going
• 22:53
  off. At the end of the season, we we
• 22:56
  things things could could get a little bit contentious at the
• 22:59
  end of the year. Now, even before we watch the
• 23:02
  episode, I'm just going to ask, what's your opinion of the whole
• 23:07
  Timeless Child, A Life Before An Unearthly Child?
• 23:13
  The Division? What's your opinion on all of
• 23:15
  this? I think sometimes people like
• 23:24
  need to just take a moment and sit with something and I don't
• 23:29
  see how it harms anything that has happened before it.
• 23:35
  It actually goes back to the idea that I know some
• 23:37
  showrunners was trying to do, which was bringing back
• 23:40
  something unique to the Doctor. I I think it actually addresses
• 23:43
  that without harming a single solitary thing that we saw
• 23:48
  before. So for those people who hate
• 23:51
  Gallifrey and hate the whole concepts of a time, I saw the
• 23:55
  hand raise, I saw the hand raise it, it addresses that.
• 24:02
  So in those who who love elements of Gallifrey, you, you
• 24:06
  still get to keep that. But the Doctor is unique, the
• 24:09
  Doctor something else. There's a mystery there which
• 24:12
  may never be resolved in storytelling.
• 24:15
  And that will be fine. I don't see an ounce of harm.
• 24:19
  I think it makes it interesting and I have to be careful because
• 24:24
  this is a bigger topic for me and so forth.
• 24:28
  I also think that Chris Chib Chibnow found a way to say that
• 24:35
  anyone who was a Doctor Who fan was always relevant and seen now
• 24:41
  that wasn't actually what happened to the 60s to the 80s,
• 24:44
  but but there's something in that, you know, and I'm I'm I
• 24:48
  feel like we're going into some of the.
• 24:50
  Episodes. No, no, no.
• 24:52
  It's Christ you. Know like, like when we get
• 24:55
  introduced to the doctor, you know, at the, at that war field
• 25:01
  or whatever it is, all of a sudden languages, language is
• 25:03
  always terrible with me. But but I, I thought that was so
• 25:08
  cool. It was so fun.
• 25:10
  I mean, we got the fugitive Dr., which I can't I can't say enough
• 25:16
  about. I can't say enough about.
• 25:19
  And you know, potentially it's a way to for people to acknowledge
• 25:22
  some of the other doctors. Maybe, you know, Nick Briggs is
• 25:25
  the doctor was. Oh, God.
• 25:27
  Terrifying. I mean, yes.
• 25:29
  Yeah. No, no, no.
• 25:32
  Yes. Yes.
• 25:33
  Well, no. And it was just that sort of
• 25:35
  thing about Doctor Who, right? It's always been called Doctor
• 25:38
  Who. There's no question mark there.
• 25:40
  But it the, the opening six years of Doctor Who.
• 25:43
  We didn't know about Gallifrey. We, we had a few whispers about
• 25:46
  where he came from and it was just bringing that back to the
• 25:50
  show as well, wasn't it? Of just like, all right, So we,
• 25:53
  we, he was adopted. He was taken to this planet and
• 25:59
  experimented on horribly and created the sort of foundations
• 26:02
  for the society. But ultimately, we don't know
• 26:06
  where the Doctor comes from. What I really loved, and you may
• 26:10
  you may disagree with this, but I really loved in the flux
• 26:13
  season, which is still one of my favorite seasons of Doctor
• 26:16
  whoever. I just love that.
• 26:17
  Flux. I bloody love.
• 26:19
  It the one season I didn't like it all.
• 26:22
  Oh God, I'm. Lying.
• 26:24
  I'm lying totally. Though are you?
• 26:26
  Do you know what you are such a poker.
• 26:27
  Face on, then I. You love it?
• 26:30
  Yeah, you love it. Oh, absolutely.
• 26:32
  Oh, thank God we can still be friends then.
• 26:35
  Good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:37
  Well, it was just the fact that she was given that watch.
• 26:40
  You know, she had that watch at the end, and it was like, what?
• 26:42
  All the answers are there? And she just went, do you know
• 26:45
  what? I'm amazing and I don't need
• 26:48
  this. And she just throws it away.
• 26:49
  And I know people are really angry about that.
• 26:51
  I just thought that was a great statement of like, do you know
• 26:54
  my past doesn't define me. It's how I got here, but it
• 26:58
  doesn't define me. I'm pretty amazing.
• 27:00
  Let's go and have some adventures and.
• 27:02
  Fugitive said the very you know, as we'll see later, the fugitive
• 27:05
  doctor said the very same thing. Yeah, yeah.
• 27:08
  Do you know what? I really believed you then when
• 27:10
  you said that about the. I'm going to watch you on this
• 27:12
  call. Jesus Christ, do it.
• 27:16
  OK call. I love being fooled.
• 27:19
  Well, the only my only issue, and it is that a solitary issue
• 27:23
  with the fugitive Dr. is there wasn't more of her.
• 27:27
  I thought there was so much potential there and I'm so
• 27:30
  pleased we're getting some big finish stories like her rather
• 27:33
  big finish. And I like cheered when she
• 27:37
  turned up just for two seconds in the store in the engine.
• 27:40
  I was like. Yes.
• 27:41
  Oh no, she's gone again. For God's sake, it's like every
• 27:43
  time she's in my. Grass.
• 27:45
  And then she just slips away. Again, I just want more because
• 27:48
  Gemini had. 12 episodes, what have we had?
• 27:51
  With the. 13 Would he have had a little room, more room?
• 27:54
  Would he have taken advantage of it or would he have introduced
• 27:56
  new ideas that we would have loved that we can't even imagine
• 28:00
  that I don't, I don't know. But with as we're watching, I'm
• 28:05
  going to, I'm going to try to remember to bring up points
• 28:09
  where I see the fugitive Dr. making sense because there, you
• 28:13
  know, there's several points through this run that it would
• 28:17
  have made perfect sense to bring her back, you know?
• 28:21
  So yeah. I mean, I wouldn't have even
• 28:22
  have objected and they would never do this, but I wouldn't
• 28:26
  have objected to if they if they did just a series with two
• 28:29
  doctors, the doctor and the. Doctor And yes, I mean, come on,
• 28:35
  three women and the TARDIS. I would have been in heaven.
• 28:39
  Well, look, should we carry in and what?
• 28:41
  I'm getting a good sense now of how you found Doctor Who.
• 28:44
  I'm getting a good sense of the the new series through your
• 28:47
  eyes, and I'm definitely getting a great sense of Jodie
• 28:50
  Whittaker's time. Should we go and watch Ascension
• 28:53
  of the Cybermen and see what delights this has to offer?
• 28:58
  OK, well then would you do me? That is your finger on the
• 29:01
  button. Are you ready to press it?
• 29:02
  Yeah, hold on. For me, I have to do just a
• 29:05
  little bit more, but nothing super complicated.
• 29:08
  I don't know, I can sing the Jodie theme tune while we're
• 29:10
  waiting. I like that theme.
• 29:14
  So do I. What a what a I'm I can, I can't
• 29:22
  Oh my God. I also forget how to say his
• 29:24
  name, but I love the musical score for this series.
• 29:29
  I say second Akinola, but I think that may be wrong and I
• 29:33
  think he said in a wonderful tweet if mum tells him off all
• 29:37
  the time because he gets the. Name he even.
• 29:39
  Says the name wrong himself in interviews and things like that.
• 29:42
  God, his music is beautiful, isn't it?
• 29:45
  And I and I love them. You know this is embarrassing.
• 29:50
  Calling myself a Who fan. And you talk about Murray Goat.
• 29:53
  Thank you who who I even have some of the album and I love
• 29:56
  him, but I was ready for for the change and that, you know, I
• 30:02
  think I've heard other people said this.
• 30:04
  It's like he didn't know when not to do something.
• 30:08
  But I can hear his music in my head at a drop of a hat.
• 30:12
  It just pops up. So this is not a dig.
• 30:14
  I love him. I would never have changed him,
• 30:17
  but I was so ready. I was so ready for this change
• 30:20
  and I love it and his music. When I think about it, I hear
• 30:24
  his music all the time. Such.
• 30:27
  The ambience was good but I'm blabbing so I'm at a point where
• 30:31
  I can safely hit play with the countdown.
• 30:33
  I'm sorry. Now listen here.
• 30:34
  The only thing I insist that people do on this podcast is
• 30:37
  talk. Don't ever apologize for
• 30:39
  talking, OK? It's those people that sit there
• 30:41
  in silence I have an issue with. I was going to say, you remember
• 30:45
  earlier on when we was sort of reminiscing about the 80s and I
• 30:48
  was having massive childhood envy that you was getting a
• 30:51
  steady diet of Doctor Who every single day.
• 30:54
  If Murray Gold was scoring that, it would be this sort of very
• 30:58
  twee. Sort of nostalgia music where we
• 31:01
  definitely know now if 7. Akinola was scoring that.
• 31:05
  It would be a nice ambient theme that sort of slowly builds and
• 31:10
  builds until we're talking about the timeless.
• 31:11
  Children. And it would burst with
• 31:13
  excitement. You know, they do have very
• 31:15
  different styles, don't they? But I'm going to do one thing
• 31:18
  now, which I do quite a lot, and I'm so sorry to do this to you
• 31:21
  on your very first episode to do this, but.
• 31:24
  This sideman theme that goes isn't it great?
• 31:31
  Love it. And I'm a person who loves
• 31:34
  adventures in space. Is it?
• 31:35
  Is it adventures in space that that?
• 31:39
  Oh, the donkey, try. What is it?
• 31:42
  What? Hang on, what are you talking
• 31:44
  about? Oh, I'm sorry, it's the first,
• 31:46
  it's the no, it's not the very first Cyberman music that people
• 31:50
  associate with Cyberman, but it's the 60s theme that people
• 31:53
  associate with Cyberman. They use it in weapon fair.
• 31:56
  But and, and I realized listening to and, and I've got
• 32:06
  to get his name down. Actually, if I just look at his
• 32:08
  name, I can say it. That's usually when I can't say
• 32:10
  something, I'm not thinking about how it's spelled.
• 32:12
  But that was, and I've enjoyed some of the other Cybermen
• 32:18
  themes in there. You know, I don't want to
• 32:20
  dismiss them. I I did, including that, you
• 32:22
  know, one of the weaker episodes, Revenge of the
• 32:25
  Cybermen. That weird boy.
• 32:27
  That somehow sticks with me, but I.
• 32:30
  Want to hear it? I can do that one.
• 32:33
  It's like a weird trumpet. But isn't there like a Dong or
• 32:40
  something? It's that element.
• 32:41
  There's something to go Dong. But this, this latest theme was
• 32:51
  the first time I loved the theme as much as I did as the 60s.
• 32:56
  Well, I just needed to warn you because when it hits later on in
• 33:00
  the episode, I may start singing.
• 33:01
  So, you know, if we, if you and I are singing together already,
• 33:05
  I'm sure we're going to have a jolly.
• 33:06
  I don't. Want to cancel your podcast?
• 33:08
  But. No.
• 33:10
  Many have tried. Don't worry.
• 33:13
  Well, do you? Want to count us in if you're
• 33:15
  ready or we can? What is it from five or three?
• 33:18
  How do you listen to you? I'm in your.
• 33:20
  Hands OK 321. Off we go.
• 33:28
  Oh this pre title sequence. Oh, I got to mute this.
• 33:31
  You can't hear this, can you? No, not really.
• 33:34
  No, you're right. OK, I'm in.
• 33:35
  Mute it, OK? Isn't this pre title sequence
• 33:39
  fabulous? That cyber head coming towards
• 33:41
  the screen. It is I, I think I put in your
• 33:45
  comments once that I just consider the chipmunk Whitaker
• 33:49
  area to be so cinematic and I, you know, maybe I'm abusing that
• 33:54
  word, but I love it. I think it's.
• 33:56
  Well, I mean, people said with the Disney money coming in, the
• 33:58
  show was going to look better. I don't think it's ever looked
• 34:01
  better than here. You have never been more right
• 34:03
  about something and Doctor Who in your life.
• 34:08
  Don't say that to me, please. Oh, here we go, the great oily
• 34:12
  puzzle Wolf, the witch of the title sequence.
• 34:15
  I recently saw this in a way that I didn't before, and I will
• 34:19
  not tell you what it is because I've heard enough of you to know
• 34:23
  that you'll run with it in a way.
• 34:25
  Please tell me. I want to know.
• 34:27
  I want to know. Maybe off recording, maybe off
• 34:30
  recording, but but what I I love the little nod back into the
• 34:34
  60s. Yes, this.
• 34:36
  Is what I think OK? I mean, is there more of a
• 34:40
  Doctor Who titled than Ascension of the Cybermen, you know?
• 34:44
  Oh, what's happening here? We seem to be in a lovely Irish
• 34:46
  town now. Were you confused when you were
• 34:51
  watching this? Of course, of course.
• 34:54
  I trust the process though, right?
• 34:56
  So but of course. I think it's really, really
• 35:01
  clever that you're basically left to figure out yourself in
• 35:05
  this whole first episode what is being told here, and that's not
• 35:10
  really confirmed until like halfway through the second
• 35:13
  episode. That is the Doctor's back story.
• 35:16
  Yeah, because they they threw me off.
• 35:20
  We always assume that people have watched this, right?
• 35:23
  Like we always assume, OK, it throws me off when Brendan falls
• 35:28
  off the Cliff because when he fell, I was like, is he going to
• 35:33
  regenerate? And I was like, I'm wrong.
• 35:36
  So I don't know if that's a cheat or Chris Chipmel was being
• 35:40
  slick. You know, I don't.
• 35:42
  Know, But I had no clue, I had no clue at all that we were
• 35:47
  witnessing the Doctor's new back story.
• 35:50
  And for me, that felt like something that Moffett would do,
• 35:53
  would just totally put something in without any kind of an
• 35:56
  explanation and then sort of come in at the 11th hour and
• 36:00
  give you 1. And I don't expect this of Chris
• 36:03
  Chipnut, which is why I found it really impressive.
• 36:09
  I just think as well, I just think it's really beautifully
• 36:12
  filmed, all of these sequences. Absolutely.
• 36:15
  You could see this as some sort of a drama, you know, Sunday
• 36:18
  drama. Yeah.
• 36:20
  Was it like Lockford to Candleford or whatever, you
• 36:23
  know, all those things and. Now look, they had to get in a
• 36:26
  series of red headed children. Well I mean how the hell did
• 36:29
  they cast this? We need a We need a number of
• 36:32
  children with red hair, aged one through.
• 36:35
  To 11. I like to think that they were
• 36:40
  all there. Obviously they was because they
• 36:41
  filmed this all at the same time that there was just a ton of red
• 36:44
  headed children running about. That has got to be hysterical.
• 36:49
  Yeah, so I'm going to try and piece together from what we're
• 36:57
  seeing here. So the doctor being found in the
• 37:02
  in the crib, that's the doctor at the oh God, what's it called?
• 37:06
  The Gateway? Isn't it being found by Tech
• 37:09
  Teyu? Oh, as if they're recreating the
• 37:14
  the actual experience in their testing.
• 37:19
  The fam The fam No. No, no, don't say sorry.
• 37:24
  I love them too. What's all that gubbins they've
• 37:27
  got there? What about technology?
• 37:30
  This is a cool thing. I, I, I'm glad I rewatched this
• 37:34
  because I, I, I don't know if I would have caught it with the
• 37:36
  subtitles, but I love that I think I've tracked them to three
• 37:42
  different Cybermen stories. The one.
• 37:45
  OK, so of course there's a nod to the glitter gun.
• 37:50
  The revenge of the Cybermen, right?
• 37:52
  Perfect, Yeah. Right.
• 37:53
  And then to Invasion, there's a nod to that machine which caused
• 38:04
  them to feel emotions again. I believe that's a nod.
• 38:07
  The the, the, the Cyberon Electric.
• 38:11
  I know the one you mean. Yeah, yeah.
• 38:12
  You know that Stoney was running around with and and the force
• 38:18
  field. I'm saving it for last because
• 38:20
  you recently did this earth shock.
• 38:23
  I may be wrong, I may be wrong but that.
• 38:27
  When he gets stuck in the door. Yeah, I may be.
• 38:30
  I may be totally wrong. In fact, you probably have a ton
• 38:34
  of people who who said. Bring them on, bring them on.
• 38:38
  I'll take them all on for you. Don't.
• 38:40
  You worry also. Look, the cybermanship coming
• 38:42
  in, I, I love how they came in. It's again cinematic.
• 38:47
  Late The scale of this in a minute where where those
• 38:51
  wonderfully preposterous cyber heads come flying and blast the
• 38:56
  shit out of everything. It's ridiculous and it works and
• 39:00
  immediately I'm connecting with these people, which I think they
• 39:03
  do an amazing job. Yeah, well, I mean, I, I love
• 39:06
  the idea that it's a bit like Frontiers, where it's like the
• 39:10
  last human settlement out there in space, but in the cyber war.
• 39:14
  And what is it They say I'm a school teacher.
• 39:17
  She was a doctor. Like, they're not even soldiers.
• 39:19
  They're not even able to fight back properly.
• 39:22
  They're just regular people that have been caught up in this
• 39:25
  terrible war. Oh, yeah, When she says what
• 39:29
  have you been doing? That's what triggers them.
• 39:31
  Explain. Yeah.
• 39:34
  You know what else works here as well?
• 39:35
  I think Jodie Whittaker, her anger in this scene is because
• 39:41
  you very often she's smiling and she's quite cheerful.
• 39:44
  But here when she says to the fam, in a minute, you know, I've
• 39:47
  been so stupid, I've been reckless with your life.
• 39:50
  Go away. So.
• 39:51
  Beautiful. Like I'm bringing humans in a
• 39:56
  conflict where the enemy specifically likes to convert
• 40:01
  humans because that that's something I've lost in previous
• 40:03
  cyber stories that I I got the impression that they don't
• 40:08
  necessarily want all humanoids. I don't know if I got that wrong
• 40:12
  or something but like they don't convert every species in the
• 40:15
  universe. Why can't they fail with a
• 40:18
  sideman, right? Is there such a ghoulish idea?
• 40:20
  It's The Walking Dead, isn't it? Tearing out people's emotions,
• 40:23
  replacing their organs. But it's a family show.
• 40:26
  So eventually, sort of the Sidemen generally just become
• 40:30
  robots, you know, it's that's what you usually get.
• 40:33
  And the better Sidemen stories lead into this horror of
• 40:37
  conversion. Because they don't do it a lot.
• 40:40
  To your to your point, because I was thinking about in modern
• 40:45
  Cybermen story, even Earth shock.
• 40:47
  It wasn't until Attack of the Cybermen that I felt like you
• 40:50
  were really reminded what Cybermen are.
• 40:54
  You see Lytton, don't you? Of all, all of his?
• 40:57
  He's got the unit in his chest, doesn't he?
• 40:59
  After his hands are crushed? Oh, I thought that was clever as
• 41:02
  well. It's a little touch that
• 41:04
  Chipnall does that the fact that those two are brothers and he's
• 41:09
  like, he's trying to take his brother.
• 41:11
  They're going to look after you. That we're going to be OK.
• 41:13
  And then the attack carry. RTD to me to as well.
• 41:17
  But Chipnall is dead. He's just dead.
• 41:19
  And the fella then is is left to deal with the emotional
• 41:23
  ramifications of that. So you, you sort of you like
• 41:26
  that person immediately. Oh, this, this guy talking about
• 41:29
  how nobody cares about this situation and there's so much
• 41:33
  care in this space. And to go back to Moffett, some
• 41:38
  of my annoyance with Moffett is because I know how good he is,
• 41:42
  so I think I'm less forgiven when he doesn't do.
• 41:45
  Certain things. Yeah.
• 41:47
  That's unfair, no? No, I don't think it is.
• 41:49
  I think there are periods of Moffett's time where he's
• 41:52
  working on Doctor Who and he's working on Sherlock, and his eye
• 41:55
  comes off Doctor Who a bit and some of the characterization
• 41:58
  that you're talking about is lacking.
• 42:01
  Yeah. Oh, here we go.
• 42:03
  Oh. Yeah.
• 42:04
  Yeah, here come the heads. Oh my God.
• 42:07
  Oh wait, they're not here yet. You know he's going to die right
• 42:09
  here, that you know the movie's freaking out.
• 42:12
  Oh, what's unbelievably good is the POV shots when you're seeing
• 42:16
  through their eyes as they come zooming down.
• 42:19
  Here we go and. This should not work.
• 42:23
  This should not work, but it's so tough.
• 42:26
  I mean, it's like watching drone footage during the war, isn't
• 42:30
  it? I mean, it's very, very relevant
• 42:33
  to now. Yeah, yeah.
• 42:37
  Which is uncomfortable the more I thought about it when I was re
• 42:40
  watching this. But I love as well the way they
• 42:43
  just take out all of the doctor's trinkets in about a
• 42:46
  minute. So I have to ask you a question.
• 42:51
  This made me think because later they talk about you came here
• 42:54
  with your useless technology, you know weapons and so forth.
• 42:57
  This makes me think those things could still work on the
• 43:01
  Cybermen. Otherwise why would they have
• 43:03
  gone for it first? It makes me think that each of
• 43:06
  those items would have. Worked if they hadn't have
• 43:10
  destroyed them. Yeah, absolutely.
• 43:12
  Yeah. I mean, I love the idea of the
• 43:14
  of the gold particles. In the air, taken out the
• 43:17
  Cybermen. Oh, I got to ask you.
• 43:20
  No, I'm. I think I'm wrong.
• 43:21
  I thought she ran out to rescue him, which I thought was almost
• 43:25
  beautiful. But at that last scene, it
• 43:26
  almost looked like they were both panicking.
• 43:28
  I don't know. It's like, I don't think we've
• 43:31
  seen action like this and Doctor Who before this.
• 43:35
  And, and just so I hate the word gritty, but I'm going to use the
• 43:38
  word it's filmed like a war movie.
• 43:41
  You know, it's, it's dirty and it's quick and people are
• 43:44
  murdered horribly and it really feels like we're in a dangerous
• 43:48
  situation. They're you feel like they're
• 43:50
  sweating their smells, you know, because you don't have time to
• 43:54
  be all pretty. Like some shows will do it when
• 43:56
  you're under siege like. This Lee, if I was in that
• 43:59
  situation, I'll be smelling a lot.
• 44:00
  Right? Bless them.
• 44:07
  Oh. This is a bit now where she gets
• 44:08
  properly angry and she she literally just says you go, go
• 44:14
  and I will cause a distraction so you can get away.
• 44:19
  I really love it when when no no when Jodie gets a chance to
• 44:24
  really unleash. Yes, she she has range in her
• 44:30
  stories that I don't know everyone pays enough attention
• 44:35
  to because she's so positive. But I love the I love it when
• 44:39
  she gets to do this and I and she doesn't do teeth acting,
• 44:43
  which I, I wish I said that differently because it sounds
• 44:45
  like a dig to David and I don't like that.
• 44:49
  But they they share a certain quality in their performances
• 44:52
  that I really like. And I think she has a better
• 44:56
  sense of how to gauge it. And I I think because we don't
• 45:00
  get like a lot of her being cross that when she gets to show
• 45:04
  it in the second episode, we're going to watch, you know, the
• 45:06
  bit where she's in the matrix and she goes to the master.
• 45:09
  Show me the rest as she shoves him down.
• 45:12
  I was like. Oh my God, what's happening at
• 45:17
  all? Ushers, can we talk about us?
• 45:20
  Oh, it's just amazing. I didn't tell you this but
• 45:25
  Cybermen, and I know people are going to say it's trash, are my
• 45:28
  favorite. And what your favorite?
• 45:31
  Doctor Who villains. Yeah, and but but the stories
• 45:36
  don't always support that and this realization.
• 45:40
  He is so disturbing on multiple levels.
• 45:45
  It's just that scarred, rotten phase where the conversion is
• 45:49
  sort of half done, I think. Do you remember in Earth Shock
• 45:52
  where they had the sort of plastic around the mouth so you
• 45:55
  could just see the mouth? Well, this is that, but taken to
• 45:58
  an even more sort of ghoulish level.
• 46:01
  It and it makes me think and I'm probably getting into the weeds.
• 46:06
  I know you talk about people getting into the weeds of
• 46:08
  continuity and things sometimes, but it makes me think that he
• 46:12
  specifically a Mondasian spider, Spider man Cyberman.
• 46:17
  A Mondasian spider Man I. Love this.
• 46:19
  I love I would love one of those they I mean look at his arm, one
• 46:26
  of his arms. That's very Mondasian like 10th
• 46:31
  planet but Mondasian Cyberman in case the whole body Cybus
• 46:39
  Cybermen just scoop out the brain.
• 46:44
  I just I just do you know what this all of this just we have to
• 46:48
  get away from here or we will die that sort of and.
• 46:52
  All the motion. Yeah, I mean, look at the
• 46:55
  spaceship and how it spins. Look the natural set.
• 46:58
  Spins. I love this.
• 47:00
  I love this so much. And Julie Graham and everybody
• 47:04
  it, they're great. I love Julie Graham anyway, but
• 47:06
  oh. She Did you ever see her turn in
• 47:09
  The Sarah Jane Adventures? Did you ever watch?
• 47:11
  That wasn't. She great, Oh my God.
• 47:16
  But here later on when she's flirting with Graham.
• 47:18
  And she's going best. Thing.
• 47:20
  I like weirds. Don't worry, she got.
• 47:24
  I like to think they ended up together.
• 47:27
  I'm a bit conflicted. Conflicted because of power of
• 47:29
  the Doctor. Go on.
• 47:33
  Because when the ace thing happened.
• 47:36
  Oh boy, I was. Like, you know, I think I maybe
• 47:40
  can see that. Oh, I love this reaction to Ryan
• 47:43
  being stuck. And of course, it's Ryan who
• 47:44
  gets stuck. Do you know what I think?
• 47:47
  They use him well in this episode, which is disappointing
• 47:50
  because I think the the fam is a good group of actors.
• 47:56
  I'm sorry. Go on.
• 47:56
  What I I am a massive advocate for Ryan because I think it was
• 48:03
  so responsible for them to put in a young black character who
• 48:09
  was sensitive, who was grieving, who looked after his friends who
• 48:16
  and and it pushed against all of that sort of masculinity you see
• 48:22
  on TV so much that I think is like incredibly irresponsible
• 48:26
  pushing that and should not just pushed against all of that and
• 48:29
  the moments there. And I don't know if you remember
• 48:31
  that bit in the ghost monument where he's.
• 48:33
  Of course he's got the gun and he's like, oh, I'm going to take
• 48:35
  them all on. And then he runs away going.
• 48:41
  I they, they almost killed me with that scene.
• 48:44
  So funny do. You remember him being off for
• 48:47
  55 when he had that Hopper virus in his ear.
• 48:50
  He was so good at comedy. He's.
• 48:52
  Good at this? And Oh my God, I love Assad so
• 48:56
  much. This thing broke my heart.
• 48:57
  I don't know their relationship because sometimes I wonder if
• 48:59
  they're like, you know, if, if they have any familiar
• 49:02
  relationship. But this broke my heart.
• 49:04
  Chip MO. It's good writing.
• 49:06
  This young man goes to save him and he winds up getting murdered
• 49:09
  anyway. And that's one thing I remember
• 49:13
  and it comes back to Grace again.
• 49:14
  And the woman who fell to Earth was I, I, I did.
• 49:18
  I love Grace as well. And I think, I think it worked
• 49:21
  because I loved her. So I was devastated at the end
• 49:24
  of that. I was just so happy that
• 49:26
  suddenly characters can die and stay dead because in Moffett's
• 49:29
  time, when? Somebody died.
• 49:31
  I was just like, well, when they When's Clara coming back to life
• 49:34
  again? When's Bill coming back to life
• 49:35
  again? He wasn't afraid to kill people
• 49:37
  off, and that means you're really worried about them.
• 49:41
  Jodie. What was actually through?
• 49:43
  Was that a bomb? Oh yeah.
• 49:44
  She constructed that, Yeah. And Chipnol understood what
• 49:50
  Russell did in that if you're going to kill someone, make
• 49:54
  people care about them. And I, I felt like Moffett
• 49:58
  sometimes forgot about that, but he was also giving amazing
• 50:01
  ideas. I mean, he was doing so much
• 50:04
  that I think that's what got lost.
• 50:06
  Look at that shot I'm running towards the spaceships.
• 50:09
  That's gorgeous. If I could have figured out a
• 50:12
  way to to set this up in front of my TV because I watched it on
• 50:18
  my larger TVI would watch it that way.
• 50:20
  But then you would be talking to yourself.
• 50:25
  Frequently dude, I worry now. One thing I did notice in both
• 50:30
  episodes is we are absolutely in that two year period where lens
• 50:34
  flare was very popular world way like it's all over.
• 50:41
  Those Star Trek movies? A little too much.
• 50:43
  JJ Abrams has hit the Yeah. But you know what it was, it was
• 50:48
  like fugitive of the you do. I don't know if you remember.
• 50:50
  There's so much lens flare and that half the time I'm sort of
• 50:52
  going what's happening, Like I can't see what's going on.
• 50:55
  I meant to watch it before this. I don't know if you recall, it
• 50:58
  was the episode that I had suggested as well.
• 51:01
  Oh, there's still time for that. You know, if I don't scare you
• 51:03
  off this time, there's still time to do that. 10 Here we are
• 51:08
  back in Ireland again. Oh, what a handsome young man
• 51:13
  he's become. That's right.
• 51:16
  Also him joining the police. Let me say I'm going to get all
• 51:19
  this in my head as we go. Him joining the police is.
• 51:21
  Division. Right.
• 51:22
  Her joining the division. Yeah.
• 51:26
  I wonder where they shot this now.
• 51:28
  England's full of these quaint little towns like this, you
• 51:32
  know? Like, I didn't see too many like
• 51:34
  this in New York, you know, when I was there.
• 51:37
  You'll you'll see some parts of New York that has a feel of
• 51:42
  that, but they're very small areas, cobblestone streets and
• 51:45
  buildings of unique designs, and you'd have to know where to turn
• 51:48
  to even see it. Are you near?
• 51:51
  So I'm being nosy about where you live now.
• 51:52
  Are you near Central Park? Central Park is about 45 away by
• 51:59
  public transportation or driving or something like that.
• 52:02
  Yeah, I am in the five boroughs, if that makes sense to you.
• 52:06
  So there's Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island, and and
• 52:14
  so that's all part of New York City, even though most people
• 52:17
  think Manhattan is New York City, but New York City is the
• 52:21
  five boroughs. I'll say it next time I come to
• 52:23
  New York, we're meeting up, all right?
• 52:26
  I mean, I just. I never forget.
• 52:28
  Oh, bloody. Oh, look at that.
• 52:29
  Can I see? How much I love this ship do not
• 52:31
  sound what you're going to say. I just love the bouncy like that
• 52:34
  ship is affected by forces, you know, the way it bounces and the
• 52:38
  reflective thing. It's like a Frisbee.
• 52:40
  It's like a bloody. Frisbee going around, isn't it?
• 52:42
  It's so great and it's got a visceral feel to it because
• 52:44
  they're all just sort of. Clinging onto the edge like.
• 52:47
  Yeah. So often, I mean, I don't know
• 52:49
  if you remember the Saranga conundrum.
• 52:51
  Do you remember? That I do.
• 52:53
  I mean, I, I quite enjoy that episode, but that's like a old
• 52:56
  style Doctor Who spaceship, very white, you know, big sets and,
• 53:00
  and no real sense that there's any danger.
• 53:02
  In this space, whereas this, it's very visceral, isn't it?
• 53:05
  Look at it. It's all wires and cobbled
• 53:07
  together, Yeah. It it reminds me of the The
• 53:12
  Dalek in resolution. I'm so tangible.
• 53:18
  It's very tangible. I've got a little model of that,
• 53:21
  darling, you know? Oh, it's fabulous.
• 53:24
  You open up his belly and you can pull the little mutant.
• 53:27
  Out. It's very funny.
• 53:29
  I'm so I'm not much of A collector of stuff, but bad.
• 53:32
  I'm envious. I have a little canine, that's
• 53:38
  all. I mean, I've got AI mean I'm in
• 53:41
  a relationship with another Doctor Who fan.
• 53:42
  So the amount of bloody nonsense is in this house, you wouldn't
• 53:45
  believe. But I'll tell you what I was
• 53:47
  going to say. And it was only it was nothing
• 53:49
  about Doctor Who actually was, you know, in England everything
• 53:52
  just sort of shuts down about 10:00 in the evening and it's
• 53:55
  very quiet. I just remember 3.
• 53:58
  O'clock in the morning, in Times Square, the hotel, I looked out
• 54:02
  the bloody window and it was lit up like the daytime.
• 54:05
  I was like, for God's sakes, when does this?
• 54:07
  When does this see sleep? I don't think it does.
• 54:09
  It's, it's insane. It's absolutely insane.
• 54:14
  Come on, Brian. Which I kind of love.
• 54:15
  I love this cybermanship too. I'm sorry.
• 54:17
  Go on. I thought I missed a bit where
• 54:19
  she starts talking about her auntie and how she used to Jack
• 54:22
  all the spaceships when she was younger.
• 54:24
  Yeah. Don't tell me you can't write
• 54:26
  comedy. He Oh OK yeah and I like how
• 54:32
  they utilize him as well. I forget his name.
• 54:36
  That he was. Able to to Hotwire this ship,
• 54:41
  but his reason for being having that skill, it's it's
• 54:45
  devastating like sometimes kids develop skills that they
• 54:49
  shouldn't need to develop because of the horrible
• 54:51
  circumstances that they're in and and sometimes people forget
• 54:57
  there's a reason why you know. She says doesn't show you were
• 55:01
  born during wartime. Oh, every time.
• 55:06
  Every time the 13th Doctor has an argument with somebody as a
• 55:09
  hologram. I just think it's great.
• 55:11
  She's. So good.
• 55:14
  Doesn't she start going on about?
• 55:15
  Therapy. Now I'm going to bill you for
• 55:16
  therapy or something like. It just works.
• 55:22
  I could say. That she hadn't, you know, I, I
• 55:25
  think I've heard people say that she has no character.
• 55:27
  I, I think it's from your pod. Some of the people, you have to
• 55:30
  guess they, they say she has, she was not developed in any
• 55:33
  way. And I do think there, this is
• 55:36
  where the 13 episodes come in. There's more stuff that needs to
• 55:39
  be done around there. But I I think she has very much
• 55:42
  a personality and an identity and a character.
• 55:45
  Don't worry though, you know, those people on the podcast will
• 55:48
  say those things. I'll put them in the cupboard
• 55:49
  and lock the door when we're done so they don't go out in
• 55:52
  society or anything. All right, that's good.
• 55:54
  Yeah. I love that makeup.
• 55:58
  Look at his teeth as well there it looks like.
• 56:00
  Gold teeth or something, I don't know.
• 56:01
  It's amazing. I mean, it can't have.
• 56:04
  Been fun for the actor. Looks like looks like a lot of
• 56:07
  work. Sorry.
• 56:08
  Your your call in the morning is going to be at 4:00 AM for the
• 56:11
  makeup. All right.
• 56:14
  And he's selling everything. He what he, what's, what's
• 56:18
  really clever about this as well is he's chosen to tell the story
• 56:22
  in the dying days of the cyber war.
• 56:25
  So they're effectively they've lost and so they're desperate as
• 56:29
  well. So they're literally converting
• 56:31
  whoever they can and scrounging any cyber ships and armies that
• 56:35
  they can find. And I think when the when the
• 56:38
  villains are desperate, that makes them dangerous.
• 56:44
  And, and there's also the feel that even though I, I believe
• 56:47
  humanity is winning, it's such a pyrrhic victory that you can't
• 56:54
  look at what they're going through and consider that it's,
• 56:56
  it's a victory. And I, and I, and I wonder if
• 57:02
  Nightmare and Silver where that empire blows up a whole Galaxy
• 57:07
  to get rid of the cyber. And I want, I wonder about the
• 57:09
  timeline about of some of this stuff and maybe I should worry
• 57:12
  about it, but I wonder if this is all around there.
• 57:16
  That's the trouble of being a fan, you know, Is trying to put
• 57:18
  all this into some kind of order.
• 57:20
  My other half goes mad for it, putting things in a bit.
• 57:23
  I'll just go to analogy corner. Just in.
• 57:25
  Yes. Oh, you OK?
• 57:29
  I didn't realise. I didn't realise you listened to
• 57:32
  that one. Yeah.
• 57:35
  Yeah. Because you talk about you, you
• 57:37
  2 talk about some of the big finishes that I like there
• 57:41
  mostly. So yeah, I payment.
• 57:42
  It makes me This is fab. It's a great stunt as well,
• 57:46
  isn't it? When he goes off the Cliff, it.
• 57:49
  It it just works. So this is OK?
• 57:55
  This is the Doctor on a mission for Division.
• 58:00
  No, no, no, no. Wait, wait, wait.
• 58:02
  This is the Doctor as a kid. They say something happened on
• 58:06
  Gallifrey, didn't it, where the Doctor got hurt and then changed
• 58:11
  and then they realized that the Doctor can change.
• 58:14
  Yeah, but this is that, you know, down he goes.
• 58:18
  Really, this looks beautiful, The Fall, but you really making
• 58:21
  me link that more directly to what we're seeing in episode 2
• 58:26
  than I ever have before. So.
• 58:28
  Explicitly scene for scene. When he wakes up now in reality,
• 58:35
  because this is that with a filter, in reality, he's changed
• 58:38
  or she's changed into something else.
• 58:40
  And Tectonians like, aha, well, I think I could use that, you
• 58:44
  know? Oh, yeah.
• 58:48
  OK. I am now no longer just a mom.
• 58:50
  I'm some horrible mom. I'm a evil Hammer Horror
• 58:58
  experimental mother. Yeah, I mean the poor Doctor for
• 59:05
  out all of this. When you see the Doctor on the
• 59:07
  chair regenerating over and over and over again.
• 59:17
  OK, miracle fool. Yeah, I just see this as clever
• 59:23
  stuff. Really clever stuff.
• 59:25
  They're all very method, by the way, because I was so puzzled
• 59:30
  why things happen when the Doctor is not even in the scene,
• 59:35
  like the way they're interacting quickly.
• 59:39
  So I pictured them as method actors.
• 59:41
  They're playing it like a play it like a normal drama, despite
• 59:45
  the fact that it really isn't normal drama.
• 59:49
  Oh, look at this sort of submarine licing now in the
• 59:52
  ship. It's great.
• 59:54
  Actually. Look at her eye makeup.
• 59:56
  I dated someone once with eye makeup like that, you know?
• 59:59
  JD that Oops, let me stop. You're right, you're right.
• 1:00:05
  That wasn't good. Yeah.
• 1:00:09
  OK, so this is the bit in a second now where we start
• 1:00:13
  hearing the. Banging and the clanging outside
• 1:00:16
  the ship, and I thought to myself, well, maybe it's a
• 1:00:18
  grappling hook or something like that, trying to keep trying to
• 1:00:21
  get hold of them. Yeah, I had.
• 1:00:23
  No, I had nothing. And I love the tension flaring
• 1:00:26
  between them. I don't know if we missed some
• 1:00:27
  of the scenes. I, you know, I need to move this
• 1:00:29
  so I can see the subtitles a little clearly, so I can make
• 1:00:32
  sure I'm not missing. If my sound goes a bit off,
• 1:00:35
  please let me know. No, no, no.
• 1:00:36
  I can hear you fine. I mean, I can see when when we
• 1:00:41
  pull back in a minute and you see all the noise flowing in
• 1:00:45
  space. I think you needed to be at a
• 1:00:49
  point technologically to do those effects.
• 1:00:52
  Like, could you imagine them trying to pull that off in
• 1:00:54
  classic Coup? You'd have a load of sort of
• 1:00:56
  dollies on strings in space or something when you you know, But
• 1:01:02
  now, now it just looked, oh, here we go.
• 1:01:05
  And again, this isn't Disney money.
• 1:01:08
  No. It it just it bought?
• 1:01:11
  I mean, go down the rabbit hole. Like.
• 1:01:13
  Please go on. No, you've heard it all.
• 1:01:18
  I love this scene so much. I wondered why we didn't see any
• 1:01:23
  Cybermen like moving. I I wouldn't have assumed they
• 1:01:25
  all died right away, but you know what I mean.
• 1:01:28
  Such a. Cool scene.
• 1:01:29
  There's arms and legs and heads and all sorts flying about.
• 1:01:33
  But I always wonder about that, you know, on Star Trek and
• 1:01:35
  things like that, when they blow up spaceships and Star Wars and
• 1:01:38
  everything just sort of vanishes, there's nothing left
• 1:01:41
  in. Space, whereas in reality there
• 1:01:43
  will be all sorts flying about. Unless they're vaporized, yeah.
• 1:01:49
  Oh, Lee, look at the size of that spaceship.
• 1:01:53
  OK, you're doing your second Doctor.
• 1:01:59
  Yes, that is a big one, isn't it?
• 1:02:04
  Actually looks a bit like a rock.
• 1:02:05
  It's absolutely enormous, though.
• 1:02:08
  And so how do they, oh, that's what they sort of magnetize
• 1:02:11
  themselves, don't they, to to the ship.
• 1:02:13
  Is that right or do they? They do some rotation thing and
• 1:02:17
  something something else. Well, that sounds plausible to
• 1:02:21
  me. Yeah, but yeah, I, I, I, yeah.
• 1:02:28
  You know, it's funny, I did. I rewatch this last night.
• 1:02:32
  I was doing something but I rewatched this last night and
• 1:02:34
  it's amazing how easy I can watch it the next day.
• 1:02:38
  Oh, definitely. Well, and you know what, it's
• 1:02:40
  always more of a pleasure watching it with somebody else
• 1:02:42
  as well. Like I there's just something I
• 1:02:45
  mean, I've done 1000 of these. I better say that I don't know,
• 1:02:47
  but yeah, sharing the experience is great.
• 1:02:51
  Oh, he just said there he goes. Look if we vent.
• 1:02:54
  The oxygen, yeah, then we can spin it.
• 1:02:57
  But we're all going to end up dead.
• 1:02:58
  And Graham just went, well, we're dying anyway, we may as
• 1:03:01
  well just do it and try it. Then, you know, there's some
• 1:03:05
  good stuff that I think we breezed by between with Graham
• 1:03:10
  and Yaz on this ship about keeping them motivated, about
• 1:03:14
  not them not giving up, and it was handled so well.
• 1:03:17
  Have we gone past a bit where he says to her, you are such an
• 1:03:20
  impressive young woman. That's next week.
• 1:03:24
  Yeah, It's such a great thing. And her response?
• 1:03:30
  And because we've just had, can you hear me, haven't we, not a
• 1:03:34
  few weeks before this where we learnt that she had mental
• 1:03:37
  health issues when she was younger where she had sort of
• 1:03:41
  issues with in belief in herself.
• 1:03:44
  So I think for somebody to say to her you're an amazing woman,
• 1:03:48
  that's a big deal. Oh, I the special effect of the
• 1:03:52
  making and it's, it's so great. It is absolutely such a big
• 1:03:55
  deal. That's an episode I want to
• 1:03:56
  rewatch because I don't think I got the gravity of some stuff
• 1:04:00
  the first time I'd watch it. So I want to watch that again.
• 1:04:04
  I, I it's one, I think it's a oh, boy, hang on a minute.
• 1:04:07
  I'll come back to that. This shot of the cargo hold, it
• 1:04:11
  looks enormous. Yeah.
• 1:04:15
  I think if Peter Grimway could have had shots like this in
• 1:04:18
  Earth shock, he would have creamed his knickers.
• 1:04:20
  He would have been so excited. I.
• 1:04:24
  Really like Peter Grimway. Yes.
• 1:04:26
  So do I. So do I.
• 1:04:29
  So they're like, Oh well, we're just on this dead spaceship.
• 1:04:32
  That's fine. There's nothing here.
• 1:04:33
  There's nothing to worry about. Sorry, what was you going to say
• 1:04:39
  there? No, you know, some of these
• 1:04:41
  special effects, I, I know that Russell T Davis has a studio
• 1:04:45
  with this, which is supposed to have this amazing screen in
• 1:04:48
  which the actors can see real time, some of the special
• 1:04:51
  effects that they're dealing with.
• 1:04:53
  The episode Boom is, is is the example of that.
• 1:04:56
  And I didn't get this magic from that.
• 1:04:59
  No, I don't know why. It was amazing, but it was I
• 1:05:01
  didn't get this magic. It was the IT was the same
• 1:05:04
  former special effect, the wall, wasn't it, that they used in
• 1:05:06
  Star Wars. But I don't know, this just
• 1:05:09
  feels so much more expensive to me.
• 1:05:13
  And I wonder if it's the lenses because I keep hearing that the,
• 1:05:15
  you know, he uses lenses, maybe like even Broadchurch.
• 1:05:18
  I don't know that it just adds. Is he from Game of Thrones?
• 1:05:21
  It's been bugging me. Or is everybody from Game of
• 1:05:24
  Thrones? I mean, I think pretty much
• 1:05:26
  everyone from Game of Thrones has been in Doctor Who.
• 1:05:29
  I'm not sure. I'm, I don't know.
• 1:05:30
  I did watch some of Game of Thrones, but not all of it.
• 1:05:33
  Can we talk about Paul KO Sharmas, please?
• 1:05:35
  I feel like KO. Sharmas has gone down as this
• 1:05:38
  sort of the ultimate person to take the piss out of when they
• 1:05:43
  self sacrifice themselves at the end of a story.
• 1:05:47
  Only because he he says things like, oh, I'm an old man, I'm at
• 1:05:50
  the end of my life and all of this.
• 1:05:52
  But I think it's a very likable performance.
• 1:05:56
  It it is and and I think about shows where the person
• 1:06:01
  sacrificing it doesn't always make sense, you know, at least
• 1:06:06
  not obviously so, you know, and you've made it.
• 1:06:10
  We made a good point like they're setting that up and it
• 1:06:13
  and it feels natural. Now I'm telling you now that
• 1:06:17
  shot from the spaceships point of view of them approaching the
• 1:06:22
  the cliffs there. That was the same location that
• 1:06:25
  they were shooting the Brendan scenes in.
• 1:06:27
  It looked very similar. To be economical, right?
• 1:06:32
  Of course, it's still Doctor Who.
• 1:06:36
  But I don't know where they've shot this.
• 1:06:37
  This must be some factory or something, but it looks amazing.
• 1:06:41
  Well, you're going to find it and then film it, right?
• 1:06:43
  Like I'm waiting for you to do like documentaries of your
• 1:06:45
  trips. We use.
• 1:06:48
  I did. I did cursor favorite recently
• 1:06:51
  and I did a. Very funny.
• 1:06:53
  Dimensions in time Once. But I mean, I don't know if
• 1:06:57
  they'll let me walk around the factory, you know, they might
• 1:06:59
  lock me up. Oh, did you hear what it's
• 1:07:02
  called? A war carrier.
• 1:07:05
  Yeah, and we're going to see one of my favorite version of
• 1:07:09
  Cyberman. Do you know what I keep missing?
• 1:07:11
  And I keep thinking I see it. And I'm she's she's missing part
• 1:07:17
  of her arm. You know, I should have written
• 1:07:19
  down the characters names. Yeah.
• 1:07:23
  Who's the one? Raphael or the other lady?
• 1:07:26
  The other lady, it's, it's not Julie Graham.
• 1:07:28
  It's. I've got it.
• 1:07:32
  That's it. I'm keeping an eye out for it
• 1:07:33
  now, yeah. And it's something that I
• 1:07:37
  appreciate Chipmunk paying attention to.
• 1:07:42
  Well, I mean. We have it with Diane and Flux,
• 1:07:44
  right? Is it Diane and.
• 1:07:45
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh boy.
• 1:07:47
  I mean, in terms of representation, I think this is
• 1:07:51
  the best era of Doctor Who ever in terms of of of women, in
• 1:07:56
  terms of ethnicity, in terms of sexuality.
• 1:07:59
  I just think he scores on every level.
• 1:08:01
  And you know, maybe people will say that Doctor Who's gone woke.
• 1:08:05
  Well, fuck those people. I don't care.
• 1:08:07
  They. Actually don't know what woke
• 1:08:11
  means, but I think part of we we, we can come back to the woke
• 1:08:15
  thing later to see if I can find the time to frame it for you.
• 1:08:19
  My take on that? I'd love to hear it.
• 1:08:21
  I mean, did you did you see that shot there of all the smoke and
• 1:08:24
  them in silhouette? It's just it's is this Jamie
• 1:08:27
  Magna Stone this episode? Is he directing this?
• 1:08:30
  I don't, you know. I don't know either.
• 1:08:32
  I should go now. I don't remember.
• 1:08:34
  Do you know what, Lee? I'll have a look between
• 1:08:35
  episodes, all right, and then I'll appear very knowledgeable
• 1:08:37
  in the second one. Thank you.
• 1:08:39
  I agree. Me, I want Graham.
• 1:08:43
  I wanted Graham Harper to live to like 125 or 150 and still be
• 1:08:47
  doing back to her. He would have loved this,
• 1:08:51
  wouldn't he? That script.
• 1:08:55
  Look at the two of them. Come on this.
• 1:08:58
  Is the scene. This is your scene.
• 1:09:01
  He starts talking in cockney rhyming slag and she's like,
• 1:09:03
  what are you talking about? I like strange.
• 1:09:11
  I like your OH. You listen to this podcast
• 1:09:13
  occasionally. Do you hear us say in very odd
• 1:09:15
  English slang and go, What the hell are they talking about?
• 1:09:19
  They have been watching and listening to so much British and
• 1:09:27
  and general European stuff that I know most of what you're
• 1:09:32
  talking about. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you
• 1:09:34
  you catch me with stuff. I just can't tell you what that
• 1:09:36
  is at the moment, but I usually know what you're talking.
• 1:09:39
  About usually a lot of old nonsense, if I'm honest.
• 1:09:45
  You're not in your head. Good, good, good.
• 1:09:50
  Oh boy. You know I love.
• 1:09:52
  The way your pod changes depending on who you have on it,
• 1:09:55
  which is a very. I just wrote some people about
• 1:09:58
  how much I appreciated the three of you doing apart from last.
• 1:10:01
  I love this Cyberman. So much.
• 1:10:04
  This design I. You know what it is?
• 1:10:07
  I love it so much. Well, I'm going to tell you why
• 1:10:10
  I do I because I think it's a little bit the invasion heads.
• 1:10:14
  Yes, if you look, it's a little bit bit the Revenge of the
• 1:10:16
  Cybermen handles and the gum bit on the top.
• 1:10:20
  I think it's got these sort of cool spikes all over it as well.
• 1:10:23
  And the teardrop, Yeah, amazing. And I like the teardrops are a
• 1:10:28
  little bit to the side. You know, it's it.
• 1:10:32
  I didn't hate this nightmare and silver Cybermen, but I feel that
• 1:10:37
  War Cyberman is even better than that.
• 1:10:41
  My favorite Cyberman story either.
• 1:10:43
  No ghastly, but nothing tops as a design, Nothing tops a shad
• 1:10:50
  for me. I just think that is terrifying.
• 1:10:55
  I was so glad they brought him back.
• 1:10:57
  I was so surprised by that in Power of the Doctor.
• 1:10:59
  I just wanted more of him being back.
• 1:11:03
  Oh, Lee, will you look at that miserable English seaside?
• 1:11:11
  This isn't what your coastline looks like, is it?
• 1:11:15
  I can't think of where it would look like that.
• 1:11:19
  Oh bless. Imagine they are using a filter
• 1:11:21
  as well. I mean, the water looks brown
• 1:11:22
  for God's sakes. So what is this now?
• 1:11:28
  Is this the very edge of the solar system?
• 1:11:31
  Or why is everyone trying to find this man?
• 1:11:37
  Because of that portal, so I don't know where it is relative
• 1:11:42
  to anything, but it's the portal that is bringing people there.
• 1:11:46
  So he they discovered that portal that takes you out of the
• 1:11:50
  Galaxy, right? So that's why people flock
• 1:11:53
  there. So just so you so you can
• 1:11:55
  escape. OK, that makes sense.
• 1:11:57
  That makes sense. And that's where the Ravio and
• 1:12:00
  her friends, because Yed Lavi said that to her a minute ago.
• 1:12:03
  Oh, we'll we'll be able to find Koshalas.
• 1:12:06
  So we're always sort of heading this way.
• 1:12:08
  Yes, yes, yes, yes. And where does that portal lead
• 1:12:12
  to then, Lee? So I hope that he comes and he
• 1:12:17
  says it again, but I thought he was saying that it randomly goes
• 1:12:22
  places. I need to reverify.
• 1:12:24
  That. The point is, you're out of the
• 1:12:26
  bloody Galaxy where you're getting slaughtered, right?
• 1:12:28
  And he, he doesn't even know if they're going to be OK for
• 1:12:31
  certain. It's just so bad where it is.
• 1:12:33
  And you just remind me of something I forgot to say when
• 1:12:35
  we saw the flying heads. Go on.
• 1:12:38
  No, no, actually, maybe that's less important.
• 1:12:41
  Some of this story made me think of the toclifane driven to the
• 1:12:47
  end of extinction and what they're do hear a criticism of
• 1:12:50
  the chibnu era in that he. Does sort.
• 1:12:52
  Of Cherry pick some ideas from previous eras, but I always
• 1:12:57
  think he he puts a new spin on it.
• 1:12:59
  He's got a talent for that, I think.
• 1:13:02
  Like I think he's that what he does with the Daleks.
• 1:13:05
  Is Chef's. Kiss Listen Joe, no argument at
• 1:13:10
  at you're 100. Percent on as far as I'm
• 1:13:11
  concerned, if I if I had to rank those 3 New Year specials.
• 1:13:17
  Maybe. Like the Eve, then resolution,
• 1:13:21
  then revolution. But they're all great.
• 1:13:25
  So I yesterday I just heard the podcast you did with The Who
• 1:13:28
  corner the. Corner, I think it was yesterday
• 1:13:29
  that I, I, I watched it and I don't remember if this Jeff or
• 1:13:34
  Paul mentioned that he considers it almost one story.
• 1:13:39
  And I kind of like the idea of that.
• 1:13:41
  That's that's that's my my feeling on that.
• 1:13:45
  It's a banger, isn't it? A for the Daleks, But, but I
• 1:13:49
  may. Surprise you resolution is the
• 1:13:51
  one that would. Probably be my favorite out of
• 1:13:54
  three favorites, if that makes any sort of sense.
• 1:13:58
  Now I I get all of that. Do you know when she had the
• 1:14:00
  Dalek mutant on her? Back in the bathroom.
• 1:14:03
  Oh wonderful. Oh my God, Is this where all the
• 1:14:06
  side men come out of their pods? Yes.
• 1:14:08
  Yes, we've got to that point now.
• 1:14:10
  Yeah, but he's not. Dead but that, but that scene.
• 1:14:13
  Is not going to happen yet. It's this really effed up scene
• 1:14:16
  is coming before we see all of them opening.
• 1:14:19
  Oh, I've forgotten what it is. Jesus Christ.
• 1:14:22
  I've still got some surprises to.
• 1:14:23
  Come. I don't.
• 1:14:24
  I don't want to. I don't.
• 1:14:25
  Want to tell you I do. I love the fact.
• 1:14:27
  That, you know, sort of early on they they learn.
• 1:14:30
  How to sort of CGI and have hundreds of Daleks and make that
• 1:14:32
  really impressive. We've got to the point now with
• 1:14:35
  the special effects where we can have lots of a huge army of
• 1:14:39
  Cybermen on the screen and there's a shot at the end of
• 1:14:42
  this episode where there's hundreds of the buggers
• 1:14:45
  everywhere and it really feels like we are in the shit.
• 1:14:50
  Oh no, what's going to happen now?
• 1:14:52
  You've got me a bit tense. Loved her eye roll.
• 1:14:55
  I just miss the way she did it. Oh, he was.
• 1:14:58
  Grand must have been positive, That's probably why she rolled
• 1:15:01
  her eyes. Oh please, I hope you'll get out
• 1:15:04
  of this alive. I can't actually.
• 1:15:06
  Remember. Oh God, I've just.
• 1:15:07
  Remembered. You remember when they all go?
• 1:15:09
  Oh wait, shut up Joe. This bit now where you go into
• 1:15:11
  the screen. Isn't 00 is when he makes them
• 1:15:16
  all scream? Yes.
• 1:15:18
  And. This is when I.
• 1:15:20
  You know he. He said this, I think early in
• 1:15:23
  the scene, but this whole concept of him, of removing the
• 1:15:26
  organics, where Cybermen were always dependent on the organ
• 1:15:30
  organics and the Master speaks to this wonderfully in episode
• 1:15:35
  2. What the hell is he doing to
• 1:15:38
  them? Yeah.
• 1:15:39
  Removing all the. Organics, that's.
• 1:15:42
  Just. Horrible.
• 1:15:45
  I think Assad is maybe. I don't know how to judge this I
• 1:15:48
  think. He's probably insane, yes.
• 1:15:52
  I mean. And it's just awful because she
• 1:15:55
  goes, oh God, we're stuck on a ship with the cyber man that
• 1:15:59
  makes it off of Cybermen scream. That's a great line.
• 1:16:05
  Yeah, Now look, you don't want to go in that war, right?
• 1:16:07
  That's. Going to be very cold.
• 1:16:08
  That's OK, I I went into the water.
• 1:16:12
  Of the lake in Italy before. So I, I can imagine and when I
• 1:16:17
  was in London before in Birmingham and I didn't get a
• 1:16:21
  chance to go in the water, but I doubt I would have.
• 1:16:24
  I mean, I live on the coast and it's I'm right on the South
• 1:16:27
  Coast. And I only go in, there's maybe
• 1:16:30
  a window 11 week of the year. Where you can.
• 1:16:34
  Safely go into the water and not get.
• 1:16:36
  Pneumonia. Oh, here we go, the portal.
• 1:16:42
  I've got some. I I have to tell you some ideas.
• 1:16:45
  That Chipmel abandoned about some of the portal stuff in a
• 1:16:50
  bit. I don't want to.
• 1:16:54
  So it's it's the last way out of this Galaxy.
• 1:16:56
  He says, but I'm trying to. Remember if you, if I was right
• 1:17:00
  about the ramp, Oh, we're back to Brendan.
• 1:17:03
  Oh, this scene as well. And it sort of parallels with
• 1:17:06
  those really. Disturbing scenes with the
• 1:17:07
  Cybermen where he's put, it's effectively put in like an
• 1:17:10
  electric chair, right? And they don't confuse me about
• 1:17:14
  what they were doing with that flashing.
• 1:17:17
  I'm glad you mentioned the Cybermen thing.
• 1:17:19
  I think I might have forgotten, but I was like, wait, is this
• 1:17:21
  more about this? Anyway, so I I think I've got it
• 1:17:25
  right so. At the end of the fugitive
• 1:17:30
  Doctor's time in the Division, they said that they took her and
• 1:17:35
  they erased her memory of everything she did, which is why
• 1:17:38
  the Doctor in An Unearthly Child doesn't remember any of that
• 1:17:42
  stuff from before. So I think we're seeing that
• 1:17:44
  here. They're taking him in there.
• 1:17:46
  They put the electrodes in the head, so it's effectively the
• 1:17:48
  Doctor 100% having his brain wiped.
• 1:17:51
  It's just, it's very graphic. That's what shocked me is that,
• 1:17:57
  and did you notice, look at those stores, they're like
• 1:17:58
  Target stores. Yes, they did they.
• 1:18:01
  Did they did Very clever I think on 2nd.
• 1:18:03
  Viewing I fully appreciated that I.
• 1:18:05
  Don't think I caught. That on on the first, I'm not
• 1:18:09
  sure what the clock's about, maybe just.
• 1:18:11
  Time, time travel, they're going to show you they're going to
• 1:18:13
  well, probably, but they're going to they're going to show
• 1:18:15
  you something else that. You'll you'll like like if we
• 1:18:18
  weren't getting it, they they made sure we got but it's in
• 1:18:21
  episode 2. I mean, I could say if you want
• 1:18:24
  no, go on Zoe. I, I don't know, believe it or
• 1:18:27
  not, on the back. Of that clock in engraved
• 1:18:30
  letters. Division.
• 1:18:32
  Oh, OK. OK, so yeah, so it.
• 1:18:37
  Is literally. Paralleling the story.
• 1:18:40
  We get in the second episode and to your point about that thing
• 1:18:43
  on his head, it looks more Cybermen.
• 1:18:46
  To me, but I was wondering if it's meant to be Chameleon Arch,
• 1:18:50
  because clearly if this is the Doctor, the Doctor didn't
• 1:18:52
  appreciate that with the Doctor. But you know, maybe I'm wrong.
• 1:18:57
  It's just like, what the hell? Did the doctor do for the
• 1:19:00
  division? In all those years, I mean, I
• 1:19:04
  don't know if we'd like all of the.
• 1:19:06
  Answers, but it does make. Good drama.
• 1:19:09
  Oh look at this, all the doors open so.
• 1:19:12
  Cool. Can you imagine?
• 1:19:13
  Tegan running through that mess. Yes, I can come on with a gun.
• 1:19:20
  I can hear the music now. It's like, it's like someone
• 1:19:26
  smacking a metal pipe. It's so great.
• 1:19:30
  Look at these visuals. I mean, I just as a kid I would.
• 1:19:34
  Never have dreamed of Doctor Who having visuals like this.
• 1:19:37
  No, no, no, no, 2005 was such a. Big deal.
• 1:19:41
  No Trial of the Time Lord was a shock for me.
• 1:19:44
  Sylvester Mccoy's for first appearance blew me away.
• 1:19:48
  It's like it's like you watch the evolution of production.
• 1:19:52
  Values on a budget across Doctor Who, isn't it?
• 1:19:56
  I mean, I saw. In the Daleks master plan there
• 1:19:58
  was that shot of the planet with the little torch flames coming
• 1:20:01
  towards you and I was like for the time that was a very
• 1:20:04
  sophisticated shot. I'm always surprised at the
• 1:20:08
  things they did. Beautifully across the years
• 1:20:14
  because I'll tell you now, Lee, if I was given the.
• 1:20:16
  Same budget you would. Literally just have something on
• 1:20:19
  a string, all right? That's all I could manage for
• 1:20:21
  the amount of money they had. Oh boy.
• 1:20:26
  The the the they've used the pink.
• 1:20:28
  Filter Now every day everything's gone very pink on
• 1:20:30
  the Koh Sharma's planet. I really the gateway's open.
• 1:20:36
  Because the gateway's open, I really.
• 1:20:37
  Remember being on the? Azimarc when this went out live.
• 1:20:40
  With the side men bursting through the door I was just
• 1:20:44
  getting like huge earth shock vibes of like this must.
• 1:20:47
  Be what it was like. To watch Earth Shock back in the
• 1:20:48
  day that blew me away when I first saw that I just.
• 1:20:54
  It blew me away. What's that materializing
• 1:20:58
  through the? Through the portal.
• 1:21:01
  The biggest schmuck in the Oh my God.
• 1:21:05
  It's an enormous. Slowest snow globe that's been
• 1:21:09
  blown up? See I I not always.
• 1:21:12
  I'm not a big fan. Of destroying Gallifrey.
• 1:21:15
  I, I thought they could have taken the opportunity to do a
• 1:21:19
  reset before Robert Holmes did what he did.
• 1:21:22
  And I think that would have, you know, maybe they're more like
• 1:21:27
  sapphire and steel entities anyway.
• 1:21:29
  Oh, Sasha Dewan. But excuse me, I think it got
• 1:21:32
  very hot in here. What is going on?
• 1:21:35
  Listen, open a window. We're watching the show.
• 1:21:37
  Oh, sorry. Yeah, sorry.
• 1:21:40
  Oh, it's just. Like he's magnificent.
• 1:21:42
  So good. I've.
• 1:21:43
  I've seen him in other. Things but he's always good but
• 1:21:46
  he. This I want, can I say something
• 1:21:48
  else? I never really noticed his
• 1:21:51
  costume until I rewatched episode 2, so I'm going to say
• 1:21:56
  this and we'll see if you kind of agree.
• 1:21:57
  Go on. I think he gives me a bit of.
• 1:22:02
  A. Mad 2nd Doctor energy.
• 1:22:06
  I can see it. I can see it.
• 1:22:08
  Do you know what is 'cause I? You know I, you know.
• 1:22:10
  What is uniform? You've seen this enough.
• 1:22:12
  Where you look at that outfit and everything like that.
• 1:22:15
  Now he's just tighter than, you know, the 2nd Doctor outfit.
• 1:22:21
  He's not, as you know, not baggy.
• 1:22:23
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's what he sort.
• 1:22:25
  Is is tailors? Is it the?
• 1:22:27
  Purple costume. You're going to have to try and
• 1:22:30
  keep me under control, though, of all this.
• 1:22:31
  Sasha Tawan in the second episode.
• 1:22:33
  Oh boy, oh boy. It's going to be he.
• 1:22:36
  He's got, he's, he's got an energy, he's got.
• 1:22:40
  A It makes me sad that we he didn't have more opportunities
• 1:22:44
  as this master and I would have loved if they had kept them on.
• 1:22:50
  Yeah, me too. And and I don't, I never.
• 1:22:52
  Quite understand why. I mean, I was so pleased when
• 1:22:54
  they brought Johnson back for well enough of time in The
• 1:22:57
  Doctor Falls. That was the first time they did
• 1:22:59
  it. I mean, maybe, maybe if you to
• 1:23:02
  get what out of third year? You never know.
• 1:23:05
  He's a brilliant actor. He was.
• 1:23:08
  He, he was. I think he was.
• 1:23:10
  Underserved. And I wonder if anything was
• 1:23:14
  going on with RTD or something because there's other factors
• 1:23:18
  going on there. I don't know what those stories
• 1:23:20
  are because there are enough talented people.
• 1:23:22
  So that was that was terrific. Come on.
• 1:23:27
  I was nervous I wasn't going to be able to talk about.
• 1:23:29
  This much? How easy is it to talk about
• 1:23:32
  Doctor Who? Come on now.
• 1:23:34
  I mean. We had Cyberman action from
• 1:23:36
  beginning to end, fabulous cyber heads floating about, Jodie
• 1:23:40
  Whittaker being amazing, stealing spaceships.
• 1:23:43
  I mean Ravio with Graham. And yeah, we didn't talk about
• 1:23:48
  it. There was some nice.
• 1:23:49
  Nice stuff there, you know, but a little late.
• 1:23:54
  A little late, but nice, yeah. In episode 2, we are.
• 1:23:58
  Literally going to turn. The mythology of Doctor Who on
• 1:24:02
  its head. Are you prepared for this?
• 1:24:06
  I'm bracing myself. Maybe I'll have a shot of.
• 1:24:11
  Whiskey. I have some.
• 1:24:12
  Moonshine maybe? I'll take a shot of moonshine.