Latest / The Director's Chair Network / Legends of the Fall

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Legends of the Fall · The Director's Chair Network

• 0:04 [Music] [Applause] 0:14 [Music] 0:25 welcome everyone to another episode of zwix flicks the Ed zwick podcast I am 0:30 your host of course and with me for three times a charm Katie how you doing 0:36 I'm great thanks for having me back it's an absolute pleasure having you back I will say this might be this might be 0:42 your last one okay well well we're going out with a banger okay and but the only reason 0:49 why you're topheavy sorry that sounds terrible I'm also not top heavy oh 0:56 you're fine you said it in one of your our episodes you're loaded front loaded front thank you hey I'm not front loaded 1:04 either wow we're off to a good start today folks anyway so you just happened to be fall on the uh the episodes at the 1:11 beginning before Legends of the Fall that I really wanted to have a female voice on and you are my best online 1:18 female friend I'm just gonna be honest with you so having you on was just easy easy to do for me as a podcaster to have 1:23 you on for those two shows where we covered so if you're listening to this folks and you probably are I guarantee 1:28 you there's people who are listening to this episode who have not listened to some of the previous episodes because they're not Legends of the Fall and I 1:34 get it but there's a movie called leaving normal that adds zck directed and another one called about last night 1:39 that as directed and Katie was the co-host on those as well incredible coverage I thought we did a fantastic 1:45 job uh reviewing and showcasing those films and our side discussion so go check out those films or those podcast 1:52 episodes even if you haven't seen the movies or been a while I think they still make for some fun movie and 1:58 celebrity type discussions so Katie you are from the retrade podcast so for our listeners who are definitely 2:03 listening to this episode because it's Legends of the Fall why don't you tell them about your Show retrade podcast I 2:08 am a child of the 80s and 90s so I love that Nostalgia so I have a podcast about it and I cover movies from the 80s and 2:16 90s but the spin is like the first bit of it is kind of setting the stage for the movie discussion and talking about 2:22 what was going on in the world of Pop Culture at the time of that movie's release and I am uh finishing up my 2:29 season one which is about the ultimate Everyman Patrick szy and Kurt Russell 2:34 and stay tuned for season two I'm looking forward to that and I'm still on the hook in a good way to do Tequila 2:41 Sunrise correct yes I keep going back and forth about when I want that to be scheduled you were my first guest maybe 2:48 I'll save you for the last that'd be an honor to close up season one that I think that's very fitting so let's do 2:54 that let's do that for sure uh okay let's get into it Legends of the Fall 2:59 Katie 1994 I guess you could say this is the 30th year anniversary of the movie 3:04 isn't that crazy this movie came out 30 years my God that makes me feel so old because I can picture I'm like in junior 3:10 high and just it was a phenomenon but to think that that was 30 3:16 years ago also the release date had me a little confused because it shows up as a 94 film December 94 so that it could be 3:25 well when you look it up it shows the release date in in January of 19 1995 but it's a 94 movie and then when I 3:33 investigated it further they technically did a limited release in December of 94 3:39 likely so that it could be considered for Oscars for that year so just a limited theater release and then more 3:46 widely distributed in January yes so for a movie to be considered for the 3:53 February broadcast essentially of the academy you about February March they broadcast the Academy Awards for a movie 3:59 to be considered for that broadcast the win best pitcher or whatever other award acting award they it has to be released 4:05 by I think it's December 31st so end of that actual year the Year previous so a lot of dramatic it was back in the day 4:11 it was kind of like summer was the Blockbuster popcorn films and then Christmas was the the pretentious and uh 4:17 you know the Dances with Wolves and Braveheart and these type of films I mean I say that in atic way or fous way 4:24 but I mean I love those films but I'm saying these bigger epic sweeping sound score or soundtrack score and all these 4:32 type of films so Legends of the Fall falls into that I mean they kind of did a limited release say hey we showed it on the theater we showed it yeah so I 4:38 don't know when I saw this exactly I don't know if it was in '95 when I 4:44 watched it in the theater but I did see this in the theater yeah when did you first see it do you recall when you first saw it I don't I remember watching 4:51 it a lot in like friends basements like a hangout like a friend hangout there was like this student that came to our 4:58 school for very short time he was a few grades ahead and his name was Tristan 5:03 and he looked like he took on that Persona and I remember crushing on him 5:09 hard so it was so like I loved hanging out watching the movie with a group of friends and him being there and then I 5:15 don't know what the story was but the student was there for like two months and then he left he was wild he was too 5:20 wild for he was he was so I don't think I've saw it in the theater I don't recall but it was a like slumber party 5:28 friend hangout staple yeah and I don't want to age you but I would assume you might have been too 5:33 young to maybe I don't know your parents but would they have taken you to this movie at that age that you would have 5:39 been at when this was released in the the oh for sure I mean you know Junior High School I definitely saw our rated 5:44 movie I well you're much you're you're much older than I thought you were not just oh you know I probably saw R-rated 5:50 movies when I was eight you know it was the 80s 90s I know you and I are very Sim that age group it's hilarious uh I 5:57 mentioned this before on one of our shows where uh we started watching John Wick with the kids we actually just finished part 6:03 four the other day and my 10-year-old Twins and 12-year-old son now the 10-year-olds are quotequote they maybe 6:08 might be a little bit young but I was like no I'm be hypocritical because 10-year-old Ryan would have eaten up 6:14 John Wick so for me to not give that same type of I don't know like it's weird how we when you become a parent 6:19 you think oh I shouldn't do this but you know what I did it and I survived I think I did okay so I I definitely saw 6:25 this in the theaters for sure I was a movie fanatic I loved going to theaters 6:31 I miss that feeling I miss it today I actually kind of hate the theater experience now because people are so annoying they weren't annoying back then 6:37 the way they are now people with their phones and talking and kicking your seat I don't know I nostalgic maybe but I 6:43 remember just going to the theater and it seemed to be the event like everybody was going there for the same reason to 6:48 watch this film to give their full attention to this film to cheer clap whatever it might be so I was 18 when 6:55 this film came out and definitely saw it in the theaters I saw so many movies in the theaters during this time I'd go day 7:01 after day week after week I used to like cut out the newspaper and literally Circle every single movie I was going to 7:07 see during that run it was just I just missed those I just miss those days so much and then I would go to the video 7:12 store in between and rent videos so I was renting older videos watching new and it was always opening night type 7:17 stuff like I saw everything opening night wow okay yeah for example Batman when that came out with with Michael 7:23 Keaton I'll never forget I I was so proud of myself at the local theater I was the first one to walk into the Batman like 7:30 first you really are a movie dork I love it okay well yeah maybe that's why I do these movie podcasts so yeah we're this 7:37 is ewick podcast we're covering his films we're going to get into some of his behind the-scenes stuff regarding 7:42 this movie on his audio book I do find it interesting that his Audi book was sort of light on this movie it wasn't 7:49 too bad like I got 15 minutes of audio and I did cut a lot of it down and he gave some great stories but before Ed 7:56 actually got to this film he actually was dabbling with Shakespeare and love 8:02 Shakespeare and love came out I believe my memory Serv ' 98 98 or 99 I think it was 98 late late 90s so four or five 8:08 years after Legends of fall came out but Edward Wick was the first one to do it or was going to be the first director to 8:13 do it it was his passion project as well and I don't want to spoil anything and talk too long on it but I will highly 8:19 recommend for people to read his book to get get his book because in that book he describes what happened with that film 8:26 and why it went the way it went and me just say it involves Mr Harvey Weinstein is involved in the story and I will also 8:34 say congratulations to Ed because he actually did still win the best pitcher Oscar because he was still a producer of 8:40 the film when it was released oh I didn't know that yeah and so he actually shares a story about the time that he 8:46 was on stage with Harvey when Harvey was talking the mic with the best pitcher when wi and Ed's on stage with him so I 8:52 actually have to go back on YouTube and watch that after hearing the story because I think I'll understand his facial expressions a little bit better 8:58 so he already know all about Harvey at that time not no I don't I no I think I 9:04 don't want to spoil too much but I believe he says to the effect of like he's not surprised yeah type thing we're 9:10 gonna get into Harvey just a little bit because Harvey dabbled with one of our actors in This film so we'll get to them 9:15 shortly okay before we get this based on a Nolla by Jim Harrison called Legends of the Fall which I have read so when I 9:22 say that I'm a huge nerd of this movie uh I am a huge nerd of this movie I own the DVD I've owned it for years I 9:28 haven't bought the Blu-ray I still own just the DVD copy so it's just the DVD copy I bought this probably 20 odd years 9:36 ago it's a special edition it has the commentary track there with Brad and Ed director's commentary with Brad Pit the 9:43 commentary that he talks about in his book no this is actually like they recorded this like 20 odd years ago they 9:49 recorded the their voice commentary for the film which I I listened to when I got the DVD and I have I had more time I 9:55 would have done it before this podcast I'm sorry dear listeners I'm not time in the day there is so much time the day 10:01 and at the end of the day I if you want to hear their stories just go check out the DVD of course the file that I shared 10:07 with KY was the DVD format so that's why it wasn't quite High dep but what I liked about it it still has some of the 10:12 film spots on it I don't know if you caught that when you're watching it you could almost see like the film transfer on the uh on the DVD did you watch the 10:19 film I did sorry you worried me it's like I didn't mean to P you to task there on the spot I did watch the movie 10:25 that we're about to discuss I didn't realize that that's where you recorded it from yeah I just screen record it on 10:31 my computer as I played it on my computer drive that's how I do that for the shows okay so it was written by Jim 10:37 Harrison so I read the book it's been a while and I remember enjoying the book obviously it's different than the film I 10:43 saw an interview with edwick during this time back in the 90s where he said that Jim Harrison was very happy with the 10:49 film that there was a narrative changes the book's quite different than the film in many ways but the gym himself was 10:54 extremely happy and supportive of the film and was so during press conferences and stuff so he was totally on board 11:00 with the film as the author of the book like a smart person recognizes that novels are always different than a movie 11:06 for like it's weird how people don't understand that that the novel is always going to be different it's a different medium you just can't it's hard to 11:13 transfer a novel to screen but anyway so he's very happy with that transfer edwick was working on this film for 11:19 about 17 years again that book talks about how long he's been he's had the book rights and he's wanted to get this off the ground and and all the different 11:25 casting choices that he's had regarding this that same year here my girlfriend Lucy Bingham turned me on to Legends of 11:33 the Fall a novela by Jim Harrison published in its entirety in Esquire at 11:38 the time the longest piece of fiction ever included in a periodical I bought the hard cover Edition and wrote notes 11:45 in the margins and how I'd adapt it If Ever I got the chance I had no idea how 11:51 one acquired the film rights to a book but eventually I managed to contact the books agent Bob daila and asked if the 11:58 rights were available able they weren't I would call every year to check on the availability of the rights it wasn't 12:05 until after the release of about last night 7 years later that I was in the position to make a serious offer Bob 12:14 informed me that the rights which had most recently been controlled by an unnamed commercial director in New York 12:20 City were due to lapse that very month I immediately called Jeff sagansky and 12:25 asked if TriStar would make an offer aware of my fer Bob drove a hard bargain insisting that 12:32 the studio perfect the rights which is to say buy them in perpetuity knowing how long it might 12:38 take to get the movie going I was perfectly happy to act as a shill to induce the studio to make such a big 12:44 Play Once i' secured the rights I set out to find the perfect writer okay so 12:49 there you go so now he went out to find a there was two or three people in general that were considered or used to 12:56 write the screenplay and Ed it seems like with all his as I'm learning throughout listening to his book he 13:02 helps write the script so he might not get screenplay credit on the film there's a whole there's reasons why that 13:08 can happen it could just be as a courtesy or something but he's made it clear that as a director and he's he 13:13 actually is a writer himself he definitely has a huge part in the writing process of these films but it took years finally he had the rights he 13:20 had the book he he was good to go is it interesting Katie that the movie before this one that you and I reviewed and 13:25 covered on this podcast was leaving normal talk about a in films I mean well 13:31 one was highly successful one wasn't but I mean just in terms of the movie itself one was like a very tight just a couple 13:39 of characters really just their friendship and emotional like it was a 13:44 small scope so to speak whereas Legends the fall is this big epic 13:51 spans decades and tons of characters and I mean there's so much emotion in it 13:57 also I would say that's the similarity the the way that the characters are so 14:03 they emote so incredibly yeah yeah yeah yeah Ed is very good at handling 14:10 characters i' I've been finding that now this is the fourth film we've reviewed and talked about on his podcast he has a 14:17 great ability of handling characters maybe that's his work in TV I don't know but he's very good at giving us in a two 14:25 and a half hour movie he had a lot of characters in this film and none of them fell flat none of them I wasn't confused 14:30 of who anyone was I felt like I knew everyone's story to some degree and everyone had a real kind of like a 14:36 character Arc that I was interested and scen there was no side character that I was oh this is kind of boring or or with 14:42 this person now just even the interplay between one stab and oh what was the other gentleman's name Decker Decker 14:48 thank you one yeah one stab and Decker when they're working on the cart and they're working on the wheel and they're having that little discussion we get to 14:54 see those little Snippets of moments of just life on the farm without any of the drama of just them working on the wagon wheel yeah another example was they were 15:01 when they were driving right before Isabelle 2 gets shot it's oh and the cinematography don't even get me started 15:07 but it's this shot of them riding in a car and somebody is joking oh I think you missed one of those holes like just 15:14 everyday conversational and a lesser movie wouldn't have had that little 15:22 interplay yeah absolutely okay so now that is the writer we well let's talk 15:28 about the cinemat so this was the one Oscar this film did win was best cinematography and maybe rightfully so 15:34 what do you think absolutely it's funny I feel like I've watched a lot of stuff set in Montana lately right but yeah 15:42 it's um just that Western early 20th century sweeping Landscapes and there's 15:49 certain shots that are oh like the backdrop is the same um and it's so it becomes a familiarness to us as the the 15:57 viewer and I mean just gorgeous I totally agree and I'm a big fan of the 16:03 TV show Yellowstone right now I can't imagine that Taylor Sheridan who does 16:08 that TV show was not influenced by this movie there's no way even with the characters the brother issue the dad 16:15 issue this is basically Yellowstone great Point well hit me right away and I haven't seen this movie 16:21 in a while like I've seen Legends of fall you know numerous times but as years go on I get busy with work and life and family and kids so the amount 16:28 of times I've watched this probably last 20 years is very minimal compared to the first 20 years or 10 years right away it 16:34 hit me this is I I just wonder I wonder if Taylor sherid and the Creator and writer of there's just no way there's 16:41 just no way that he doesn't know this movie there just no way he doesn't know about this film and that he did not get some sort of influence between the 16:47 patriarchy of the film The dad the brothers because Tristan is well the character that plays I forget the guy's 16:53 name in the show Yellowstone but he's the youngest son I think he just he's almost like a Tristan clone a long long 16:58 blond yeah you're right now that what his name is he's kind of the favorite of of the dad as well and all this other 17:04 stuff and and the one son the only Amer too yeah you're right and the 17:10 one son who I liked dies right away yeah there you go and I love y and there's 17:16 nothing wrong with that I don't mind shows borrowing from other shows I just I got to figure they did yeah in 17:21 beautiful cinematography one of the criticism this film kind of received I think it was from Jean sorry Roger Ebert 17:26 he he talked about how I forget how he worded it but he made it almost like a criticism that the scenery 17:32 and cinematography was almost used as a character I think would that be a criticism well I think you might have 17:38 thought it might have been like a a filler or like we don't have anything to do here I don't know what it I'm like no no no no no no no you don't understand 17:43 Mr rebert I love you may rest in peace but no the the sweeping landscape and 17:50 that musical score kicks in trist's right well the score yeah the Tristan's 17:55 riding on his horse and you just hear this like The Haunting music music kicks in and the yeah don't get me started 18:01 there's so many great scenes there's one great scene I love was when Tristan's running uh riding away on his horse when 18:07 he's leaving Susanna and she's like you know won't you stay with me and you know I'll wait forever that whole sequence he 18:14 leaves and he's riding off on his horse and then uh Isabelle 2 is riding with him in the forest line that's a great 18:20 shot of her running watching him leave and she's chasing him on not chasing but 18:25 running in you know parallel but it's of course he's further way and she's closer to the camera so they're running at the 18:30 same speed yeah that's just I love that kind of stuff I love that kind of filming so it's a cinematography working hand in hand with of course edwick well 18:37 why don't we just talk about some of the actors right now let's start with I would say the lower tier I don't mean like that but let's start with the 18:43 actress and as we talk about these actors who the characters they played uh anyone who's listening to this show for 18:48 the first time because it is Legends of the Fall it's one of their favorite films we don't do plot By plot we we figure you're a fan of the show so 18:54 there's no point we're not going to do plot By plot we will speak to the plot but we're not going to do an olical order so we'll be all over the place 19:00 like we just mentioned of course you know somebody dying that was the end of the movie if you haven't seen the film 19:05 where it's been a while I think it's enough too that we're not really going to spoil anything either but we're just going to talk about the plot where it's applicable when we talk about certain 19:11 characters or scenes so the first character or sort of the first actor we'll talk about is Karina Lombard now 19:18 she looks sort of familiar but she's the one that played of course Isabelle 2 the adult version of Isel 2 I should say 19:24 lovely woman she would have been 25 in this film 20 and she plays like 20 I 19:31 think they I think she's supposed to 19 she oh was she 1920 or something like that yeah which kind of makes sense so 19:36 it gives you an idea that Tristan was gone she was 13 when she met Susanna and was so he was gone for five to six years 19:43 let's just say okay that makes sense that's enough time for them to it's sort of like it's a long time but not such a 19:49 long time as like why Susanna still there it's kind of just enough time that after a couple years of waiting she 19:54 marries Alfred and it all kind of makes sense so what do you think of her smaller role at the endend there playing 20:00 the adle version of Isabelle 2 she's a striking Beauty she did a phenomenal job 20:05 I I don't really recognize her from anything else she had the smaller of the roles cuz she but she was the part of 20:12 Tristan's life when the bear was put to sleep and that was their moment of happiness and that's what makes that 20:18 sequence so heartbreaking is because she waited her whole life for Tristan Isabelle 2 and I love how her name is 20:24 Isabelle 2 to not even Isabelle II she's Isabelle 2 named after the the boy's 20:30 mother she always said I'm going to marry Tristan even when she first says that to Suzanne at the beginning of the 20:36 film I even caught then Susanna's I would say jealousy but kind of like competition you're going to marry Samuel 20:43 that's right I am I'm going to marry Tristan oh yeah you know that's 20:49 interesting it's just that Susanna is just enamored by Tristan from the moment 20:55 She lays eyes on him and it builds throughout the movie she almost does I mean obviously she can't live without 21:00 him yeah literally yeah but that is interesting that she yeah I kind of 21:07 sensed it right away I kind of sensed even though well yeah she was 13 21:12 but the idea yeah in five years she'll be an adult and back then or kids became adults very quickly back then that being 21:17 said her character Isabelle 2's character was the time of Tristan's life 21:24 when he was the most at peace I love that line when one step said the bear was asleep it was then that Tristan came 21:31 into the quiet heart of his life the bear inside him was 21:36 sleepy yes oh my well yeah I loved the the creative way 21:42 of the narration of this movie I'm a little all over the place like I loved the character of Elizabeth 2 and and 21:50 Tristan's he had gone through so much being broken and it's interesting that 21:57 you know he had this love he had to leave he came back he found love he had kids and he was happy being back with 22:04 his dad I I really to your point I didn't have a lot of talking points about the actress but the 22:10 character was integral and we see her grow up it was interesting in that she 22:16 was sort of like a sister to them but Tristan was gone a lot I don't know I 22:22 didn't find it as weird but Alfred was like it is super weird well Alfred is the let's go ahead and say it Alfred is 22:28 The Voice we'll get to the character I don't want to say too much but I'll say for that what you're saying there Alfred is always the voice of reason he will 22:34 say kind of the hard truths but everything Alfred had ever I don't think there was one thing he said in the film 22:39 that was incorrect he got kind of played by those obanion Brothers though because 22:45 he I think he was good I think that his heart was actually good that's why of course Tristan says will you raise my 22:50 children because Tristan knew that if anyone could raise my kids at the end there it's going to be Alfred because he's a True Heart he's a good person and 22:56 not saying his delivery was always look he could work on some of his delivery of telling these truths but 23:03 nothing he ever really said he's very regarding his family and everything else I mean he knew exactly what people would 23:09 bring to the table and he just said certain things and we'll get to some of those scenes but there's so much I'm 23:14 just like overflowing with scenes because I'm like I start talking about 23:19 one and then it leads me to another well let's tie we'll tie the bow we'll tie the bowl then on on Isel to she'll come 23:24 up again of course but she played that that character was integral to the at the end there to show Tristan in a life 23:31 that could have been this was the life had the universe given Tristan a 23:36 sleeping Bearer his whole life he could have easily married Isabelle 2 and they 23:41 had two kids together and they could have been they looked like there was a time there they would have been a very happy family on the farm well and they 23:48 were it was just very shortlived yeah five years four years five years that's it to your point about Alfred being the 23:55 voice of reason and it at the so they're in the mansion he and uh Susanna are 24:01 married she doesn't know Susanna doesn't know that her love has now married her 24:08 and she finds out there's just so many things knowing looks that Alfred Alfred 24:15 knows that she's in love with his brother and he didn't realize that she didn't know and then he she's so she has 24:22 to kind of mask her pain well she has her back turned Alfred while she brushes her hair and she's got those tears 24:29 uh we'll talk about Julie Oman of course but she's got those half tears in her eyes and she's like well I'm not her or 24:36 or something that I'm not Isabel 2 or something like that but you could tell that Alfred was sort of prodding without 24:41 being a jerk about it like saying oh you didn't know I think he was making the term or sorry the the statement of she's 24:48 practically like a sister to us and I think he might have been doing that a little bit to throw shade at Tristan a 24:54 bit to maybe soft the blow for Susanna yeah so lastly this actress again Karina 25:00 Lombard did a great job she didn't really do too like I should say she didn't do too many movies of note that 25:06 I've seen but I've seen her in a couple movies but didn't recognize right after this saw her star rose just a little bit 25:11 she was with Bruce Willis in the movie Last Man Standing which I did see on VHS at the time and then she was also in a 25:18 movie that I watched on VHS as well Kevin soral call the Conqueror go well 25:24 those seem like um like be movies and this a little bit a little bit they were 25:30 like you're right I mean last man I think they both were in the theater mind you they were both in the theater these 25:35 but you're right but these were you know Bruce Willis and Kevin serbo of course coming off the Hercules TV show these 25:41 weren't small names and I and I saw these movies knowing who these people were very well of course but then after 25:46 that it kind of none of these movies I even recognize some of the some of them don't even have like a a clickable link 25:52 to their film on Wikipedia type thing do you find that strange though cuz she's gorgeous and she was really good in this 25:57 and this was a huge film her last film was in 2023 it was a movie called The Oath uh I don't recognize any uh Billy 26:05 Zayn was in it okay um but then she did some TV work more than anything else she was in a show that again I watched I she 26:12 seemed familiar to me other than the just the film she was in the L sorry L word I didn't watch that but she had the 26:18 main role in the L L word oh I never saw that but she had the main okay I didn't realize that the first season apparently 26:24 but why not continuing Seasons I don't know so that could be maybe I don't know anyways then she actually had the main 26:29 role in a shortlived TV series that I quite enjoyed called The 4400 is that like an end of times type movie I think 26:36 it was the classic people were gone they came back but they had superpowers type thing show or like they had they were 26:43 sounds very familiar I wonder if I've seen it it's actually quite good it's kind of corny I mean it's already 20 years old boy time goes by uh then she 26:50 had some reoccurring roles and rescue me she's done stuff maybe she's not pounding the pavement who knows maybe 26:56 she just does does what she wants to do all right well let's move on to the next person on our list of actors we have of 27:02 course Henry Thomas it's funny when I was reading some people's comments on the film you know on IMDb it's just fun 27:07 to read some people's user reviews I can't believe how many people were like I didn't know that was him from ET like I knew right away even back when I was a 27:13 teenager I knew right away this was Henry Thomas partly because he's almost my age he's just four years older than I 27:19 am he was in the movie of course ET uh the boy Elliott and the reason why I 27:25 know him and know him well through no fault of his own I hate that movie so much are you being serious oh yeah I 27:30 hate I AB I hate it as a kid in 82 hate hate it I think it's rid I think uh 27:36 really quick of course it's ridiculous well I don't even mean that I saw this movie when I was a kid I was seven years old I saw this is the family movie right 27:43 we went to go see ET a family are you kidding me this is the biggest film like ever a huge film and I should have been 27:49 like this is a movie about me I was Elliot's age more or less the kid that he played in the film I was like why are 27:56 you inviting this creature from the shed into your house are you insane I could 28:02 never get behind the actions of the boy cuz I was about his age so I'm I've always insert I've told you this I've 28:08 always inserted myself into to the characters now I know there's characters who do things that I wouldn't do but I I 28:15 think to myself what would I do in this situation so I could as even as a kid being the empath that I am I was like I 28:21 had a hard time why hey mom dad there's a creature in our garage Dad can you go get a shovel and beat it to death please 28:27 like I don't understand why but it was a nice creature no but fine but you you're 28:32 still telling your parents there's just no there's just why are this this is the classic 80s you know kids and parents 28:38 don't communicate like the whole idea that why are you not telling like you're but you're inviting an unknown creature 28:45 into your room last thing for this movie I couldn't stand I couldn't stand well two other scenes I couldn't I couldn't 28:50 stand him uh it getting drunk and wearing the the the woman's dress with a wig and then getting drunk in the fridge 28:56 and making a mess it stressed out as a kid cuz I was like my parents were very strict about cleanliness homes and so I was like oh my gosh my parents going to 29:03 kill me there's beer everywhere it did its job you were supposed to feel that way like but it but it's not funny it 29:08 wasn't comical it was just stressful like I think there's probably people that watched that laughed and thought 29:14 this was hilarious we had a drunk alien and then it looked like a it looked like a bloated penis and then the last final 29:20 scene with the when ET sick in the ditch I just anyways so I just hated that scene of he look like a dead fish in the 29:28 ditch like just so when he finally got on the ship and flew away I was like thank goodness you're gone you're gone 29:34 you're gone go away get off the planet go away okay so that could be said for like literally almost every movie that 29:40 you could you you would choose to do something different than the character it's not even I don't know what it is I don't know what to tell you yeah I don't 29:46 know what to tell you I just couldn't you can't to me I liken it as finding a stray dog and I'd be like yeah come in 29:53 my room hang out let's I don't know you because it's a dog that wags his tail and it's a dog it's a creature with hair 30:00 anyway so Henry Thomas did a great job playing Samuel lllo of course but before this film this is all I kind of really 30:05 knew him from I did see him in the movie Fire in the Sky great UFO film but other than that I hadn't seen Henry Thomas in 30:12 any film until Legends of the Fall so this was really cool to see him as an adult actor he was 23 at the time of filming okay when I watched Legends of 30:19 the fault my memories of watching it I did not know it was the kid 18 you're 30:25 one of those commenters I was 18 when it came out and I was kind of I was movie Savvy back then sort of am now still but 30:32 that was kind of like a I love movies so I knew like I just knew who everyone was kind of thing or as much as I could at that time but he did those TV shows I 30:39 don't know if you watched them The Fall of the House of Usher midnight mass The Haunting and bl Manor all on Netflix 30:46 Mike Flanigan is the name I actually haven't seen those I hear good things but they're great they're fun they're 30:51 fantastic he does a great job playing playing the uh patriarch now in those films yeah so let's talk about let's 30:56 talk about Samuel and what meant to the family and you as a viewer what do you got to say I'm also the youngest child of three oh wow so he was the baby both 31:06 Tristan and Alfred were charged I don't even know if it was an edict they just 31:12 took it as their responsibility to look out for Samuel dumbass Samuel wants to go to war and find glory 31:22 for some unknown reason I did find this a little annoying because he has assumed to be wife who he has not slept with yet 31:30 why didn't they sleep together the night before he went to war I don't I don't understand because he has this whole 31:36 conversation with Tristan about he's nervous about being able to please her because they're both virgins and I do 31:42 love in that conversation where he mentions to Tristan that she's passionate so they obviously they've made out they've done stuff well yeah 31:50 but I mean because he's already saying she's quite passionate so she's very not a not obviously not in a bad way but you 31:56 know a puritanical way maybe for back then uh the idea the woman was very forward that she's a very forward woman 32:02 with her passions and making out who knows what where she puts her hands on poor Samuel but so poor Samuel uh you're 32:10 right so he brings home this lovely woman they're virgin still she's a virgin he's a virgin you're talking now 32:16 uh to Tristan they're playing tennis that scene and Samuel's taking a break from playing tennis and now Alfred's 32:21 playing tennis with Susanna and Tristan and Sam are talking now did you notice that Tristan had a black eye the 32:27 character well Samuel says it but you do know why it's a real black eye oh really yes I 32:34 think we're led to believe is because Tristan fell off the horse taming that wild horse oh yep yep 32:41 that was the scene previous but what it was is of course you know films are sorry yeah films are filmed out of order 32:47 what after Isabel 2 is killed as an adult and Tristan is beaten up by the cops with the billy club the billy club 32:54 really hit Brad in the face really good so they had to add that sequence of so 33:00 they shot that sequence into Shiner was going down and swelling and it was still black though so they're like well he fell off his horse and that's why he 33:07 said back yeah interesting yeah but now they're talking about Susanna Sam's talking about Susanna so they didn't 33:12 sleep together so yeah well he mentions in the letter too of regret did you C he 33:18 goes I really wish I banged you before I left I closed my eyes and fix my thoughts on you I now regret that we 33:25 listened to everyone and agreed to wait to marry I'm very confused by Samuel he it's like 33:30 he's the youngest kid he knows their babies like even in war he does something really stupid because he in a 33:37 letter is talking about how it might be silly but he wants to find Glory but it's going to be hard to do that because 33:43 his brothers I admit that I also prayed for personal glory is that wrong to want 33:49 to distinguish myself gloriously in combat as my father did though Tristan and Alfred watch over me so carefully 33:55 that I may never get the opportunity exactly won't let him out of his sight so he kind of tricks them and then ends 34:02 up dying he died for Glory you're right and it's sad but he's young he's an officer he's getting wrapped up in the 34:09 whole the the patrim of War and the stories that he probably read with his dad and things like that he's like I 34:15 want to be a war hero and he didn't want to die but he wanted to do a mission without his brother's babysitting him 34:20 yes and because his dad was a colonel and he had Glory it's interesting 34:26 because the the dad Anthony Hopkins character Colonel William L yeah yeah he 34:32 tries to impart his wisdom that no no no no you shouldn't want War I did that and 34:37 it's not what you think it's well we've already lost two of our cousins at the m and we've never even met and don't talk 34:43 at me boys if I've never seen a war and they go to the Canadian Army too to they ride up to uh Calgary it's not even the 34:50 American Army they fight with the British I guess they were probably they probably joined the Canadians to fight 34:56 with the British tracks back to the conversation with uh Tristan about he's nervous he won't be able to to please 35:03 Susanna in bed essentially I love how Tristan's like well are you gonna wait 35:09 so the point is they're not even going to wait until they're married so why didn't they sleep together the night 35:15 before he left for war at least I think she was angry probably I know but Jesus 35:20 I mean well you know how women are you know if you're not in the mood but he tells her because this is 35:28 kind of a line throughout or a theme throughout the movie is he tells her because Samuel is like don't be crude 35:34 when Tristan says well my recommendation is to F her funny enough I think that's the only cursing in the whole film was 35:40 that scene am I wrong about that well he says it a couple times um I don't think I don't think he says the f bomb any 35:46 other scene maybe not I can't recall it's drawing for a reason but it's funny how that scene kind of it comes out of 35:51 nowhere but I know that word existed in the 1900s of course and it literally he 35:57 was used it for the term that you do for you know wild love making type thing for that you know not making love the f word 36:03 part of making love I find an interesting writing choice but maybe that's why they did it was it supposed to be jarring for poor Samuel's little 36:09 virgin ears maybe good point well when he is taking it back he's like no no she's going to be my wife I want to be 36:15 with her Tristan persists he's like well if you want to please her you should F her and then what's interesting is not 36:22 only does Samuel regret not being with her I what however he wants to but then 36:28 later when Tristan and Susanna end up sleeping together Tristan makes love to 36:36 her he you know what I mean did you find that interesting that he didn't use his own advice with with her because of 36:42 everything he been through and probably memory of Samuel and stuff that now she's not quote unquote a piece of meat now it's somebody she's different now to 36:49 him even at her oldest time but yeah so what did you think of Samuel's death that whole sequence there oh my God it's 36:56 what I remembered that's is what I remembered from this movie because there's a lot that I had forgotten that 37:02 happened it's a movie to watch again and again I don't think there's anything like there's no wrong reason to watch this film again but it's it's funny how 37:09 there are scenes even I had forgotten like oh yeah I forgot about that so Tristan doesn't get to him in time he 37:15 realizes that moments he saw Samuel get shot by the German Soldier he was 37:20 blinded from tear gas or whatever it was in don't even me started in the barbed wire I hate barbed wire it serves ownn 37:28 purpose later the calf he relives the Samuel death with the calf in the barbed 37:33 wire how do they film that scene I was assumed no animals hurt during that sequence I think at this time yeah oh my 37:39 God and I that was hard cuz I adore cows and the horses in war just the chaos of 37:45 war and all the horses um it it's really hard to watch like I I did struggle also 37:51 I disliked Tristan's character because he's got such blood lust why yeah 37:58 yeah I mean for our listeners yes I mean you could say yourself but yes I hate cruelty against animals too I know I eat 38:04 them but I also hate cruelty against anyone humans animals insects I try to always never arbitrarily like even when 38:10 I have a spider in the house I try to get out of the house I don't just arbitr I don't take pleasure I don't receive 38:16 pleasure and and uh but I I know I know I'm sound terrible but I just want to be 38:22 clear I hate I hate cruelty AR need is suffering so that being said you're right the character of Tristan uh I 38:29 think even he isn't like necessarily cruel but back then hunting was the thing like you hunted it was Man versus 38:35 Beast this is very much the time you have to keep in mind of the time you always to keep in mind of the 38:40 time even the opening scene when he was a kid he comes Upon A bear and his first 38:46 his your first thought at a creature is to kill it even when it's finding its own business yeah you're right well he 38:52 was going to use I would have Let's Pretend teenage Tristan killed the bear they would have used every last scrap of it so to their credit the because I 39:00 think William lllo the the dad of the colonel was wearing a bare skin yeah yeah no I know but I had forgotten that 39:06 and I'm like ah like and then he goes on this this epic journey and he writes 39:13 back to um what's his face one stab like when he's in Africa oh you there's these 39:18 creatures you can't imagine it's just so different here and I've killed them all 39:25 I have become a hunter stab there are creatures here that cannot even be found in books and I have 39:32 killed them all delivery is important because you remember it was just previous that he scalped those German 39:37 soldiers that killed his brother yeah he is in fullon Anger the world doesn't 39:43 makes sense and the idea that you're right reminds me of Fight Club BR pit 39:48 where he beats the crap out of Jared let's face and he says in that film I 39:53 just wanted to destroy something pretty so it's the same idea I think I think that's a good point you won't believe 40:01 the creatures here things you couldn't imagine dot dot dot and I've killed them all this is showing you the state of 40:07 mind he's in yes you and I go to the same Safari that Tris is on I would have a great time being there looking at the 40:14 oldest exotic creatures I wouldn't want to lay a finger on any of them I wouldn't even want to eat any of them they're not cows or chickens but the 40:21 point is I had forgotten and I'm like it it is a trigger for me like the when someone's first thought at a beautiful 40:28 creature is to kill it I find that so weird destroying because he's destroying all that's beautiful and wonderful 40:35 around well and you're right I'm saying I'm like speaking out of both sides of my face here it a triggered me as who I 40:41 am as a human but also you're right I do recognize he's on this Quest he's he's got a he's mad he's gone mad and is 40:49 trying to find himself and he's spiritually like a native person so he's always talking with one stab in his 40:55 letters and one stab says like when you spill each other's blood you become one 41:02 I don't know why Tristan did not kill that damn old bear the old ones say when a man and an 41:10 animal have spilled each other's blood they become one I love that he's 41:17 goingon to shoot the bear but doesn't shoot the bear he because he's shooting himself but it's only because the bear 41:22 hurt him too like if you aren't hurt by killing the animal you aren't won but 41:28 he's won with the bear because of that yeah well TR literally did the thing you're not supposed to do don't don't 41:33 poke a Sleeping Bear is that is that Lit yes yes it is and 41:39 that's exactly what he did he poked a Sleeping Bear not poke a Sleeping Bear great 41:45 sequence there with the barb wire incredibly filmed this is what I love about watching this film is that this 41:51 these type of cinematography the direction by Edward Wick and the acting by the actors to be caught up in that 41:56 barb wire and it looked real I know it's not obviously made out of whatever some sort of soft material but so he's in 42:02 this Barb Wire uh Henry Thomas playing Samuel and the way he's twisted up and 42:07 he hears Tristan calling out for him so even though he's he's he's blinded by the tear gas apparently was chlorine gas 42:13 by the way it wasn't tear gas was chlorine chemical gas is a now breaks gen Geneva War convention so you're not 42:20 allowed to use that in Wartime I didn't know that you're not allowed to you're not supposed to it's weird that there's 42:25 rules of War Terry the reason why rules of war is because you won't get support of other countries so to speak so let's 42:31 just pretend F let's say Canada is invaded by Russia let's just pretend but we start using chemical warfare on the 42:37 Invaders America's like whoa whoa whoa whoa look we'll help you out but you can't be doing crap do that yeah yeah okay but you're right the bad guys don't 42:43 play by rules I know it's more to get support from allies that are qu quote good the scene though of him when he he 42:49 is just so freaking heartbreaking because at least you could say sam died 42:54 happy cuz he's blinded so he doesn't even see like the soldiers that are sitting up the Gatling gun right in 43:00 front of Samuel he doesn't even see the soldiers that are literally 20 feet away from him because he's blind from the ga 43:06 from the gas so he he's blissfully unaware of his own demise and he hears Tristan call know Sam and he goes 43:13 Tristan and he smiles like oh it's gonna be okay Tristan's coming he's he's gonna get me out of this barar mess and 43:19 everything will be okay it will take me back to Camp we'll get to Brad but Brad's acting as he yells no the the 43:26 tears that he has coming down his cheeks and face he's blowing away those guys with the gun and whatever it's just yeah 43:31 I I I'm telling you man like that whole sequence and of course now he's holding his brother and I love this because I 43:37 miss it probably the first couple times I watched the film because he talks about how he cursed God but this is the scene where he curses God but I thought 43:43 he was just swearing like oh I'm just like a gosh dang it but he's like a 43:48 godamn you God that happens like you know first third of the movie and then he then he asks his dad the last part of 43:54 the movie Samuel died I curse God did I damn everybody around me as well 44:00 as myself oh well um it's interesting to hear some of the commentary about how 44:05 Brad wanted to hold back but zwick did a phenomenal job of getting Brad's 44:12 emotions in this and there's a lot of times not words it's just he is 44:18 utterly in despair it's almost Indescribable like you can almost feel like that's how you'd be you're just so 44:25 distraught and like he's trying to get him undone he's like you're going to be okay you're G to be okay and then you 44:31 can see on his face he realizes we as the audience don't necessarily know if 44:36 you're watching it for the first time what he's goingon to do he takes a knife out and he doesn't want to do it God you're making me do this the way he 44:43 makes that oh geez I I gotta do this kind of like that's acting that's called acting some some of the best actors is 44:50 the ones who do without talking is the fake Expressions because it says a thousand words he's not saying out loud 44:56 this is really for me to no no no just look at his face and you know exactly what's going through his mind and that's 45:01 incredible acting by Brad the fact that I don't know if he even got an Oscar nomination for this film which is absolutely ridiculous he did get a 45:07 Golden Globe Nom yeah Golden Globe liked him but not it's weird he's too pretty 45:13 for nomination I bet too it's almost like he was not yet like he hadn't Prov 45:19 himself to Hollywood a little bit yeah yeah yeah yeah it was too early maybe though young people have received uh 45:25 yeah true I don't know who knows what the factors are okay so he takes out the heart but not only they took out the 45:31 heart because they can't ship the body back to Montana is my understanding so he he packaged up the heart Alfred 45:37 delivered the heart to the dad but do you remember at the very beginning of the film one stab was talks about the 45:42 heart that when you take out the heart of the animal you hold its spirit and that's why Tristan took out the heart 45:48 because it holds Samuel's Spirit when the hunter cuts out its warm heart holds 45:54 it in his hands setting its spirit free and then you can set it free isn't that 46:00 it wasn't until I watched it again for this podcast like oh the heart he took it out because I never made that 46:06 connection you almost have to watch films like this like back to back to catch some of the foreshadowing there is 46:11 a lot in this I do love that Tristan of the boys so they have money like this 46:18 family is they very well to do Samuel went to Harvard they're from the wife must be from the East Coast they have a 46:25 lot of money well has her own house wherever she M to it's like a mansion it's huge Alfred and Samuel are that way 46:32 they're very like poised and Regal in that way and they're educated he speaks 46:38 German Samuel they sort of poke fun that uh Tristan is the wild one he's he's not 46:44 even um what did they say they kind of this so much like Yello it's hilarious you know you have the lawyer son you 46:50 have yeah you're right so yeah saying now Taylor Sheridan I want say ripped 46:56 off the you should do like a special episode about it um but it's like Tristan grew up because the family out 47:03 in Montana like they're out by themselves and they have one stab and Decker and Decker's wife and it's like 47:10 Tristan he's almost like a son of them just as much so he feels very native 47:16 American and all of his actions and his thought processes very much that way 47:22 well him and one stab trist and one stab are they're like SP Brothers mhm it was 47:27 like a surrogate father because uh now let's actually talk quickly about one stab we kind of skipped over and I 47:32 apologize to one stab he was 53 at the time of this film played by a guy named Gordon tutus I don't I guess he's still 47:39 alive now so he'd be about 83 now I don't have any indication here that he's passed on has he been anything else you 47:46 asked that's a great question well let me tell you uh he's actually a fellow Canadian oh he did pass away he did pass away in 47:53 2011 at the age of 69 in Saskatoon skatan he's from 47:58 Saskatchewan but he'd been into quite a few films if you're native Canadian or Amer we call him Aboriginal First 48:04 Nations people in Canada if you're Native American and you can act there are so many roles you get to do and 48:10 these westerns and stuff like I'm Not Gon to lie to you this is great hey we need a First Nations person to come be 48:15 uh whatever like good for you uh so he did that he kind of made a career of that kind of thing he was in a lot of 48:21 those type of films like the Pontas films Lone Star Crazy Horse you know all these type of stuff he he played those 48:28 parts so he did a lot of acting Burying my heart a wounded knee the TV movie for that so lots of great stuff what did you 48:35 think of Gordon Tut's acting as one stab in this film he is the narrator of this 48:41 and he has that perfect voice and yeah he just kind of takes on that spiritual 48:47 guide type role in this movie I loved it he talking to when he gives those 48:52 letters remember those people on his Tepee at the beginning who does he give him the letters is it I have these 48:59 letters many letters read them they are from all of 49:04 them L Isabel 49:10 Samuel the whole family the whole story it is all written here because in 49:18 theory that's how we know the story it as we know First Nations people they gave oral histories that's how they 49:24 passed down their history it wasn't written it was always oral stories but he's given his oral account of the L 49:29 family but he's also using he doesn't use the letter so it's interesting so the we're getting two stories here so 49:35 he's given his oral history to the two people in the teepe it seems like there's a couple that are listening to 49:40 him that we never see their faces just the back of their bodies yeah and then he hands letters to them but he gives 49:48 his oral history about the Le l so the people whoever listen to the story which we were now assuming are the people that 49:53 are creating this film for us in a sense is he's sharing the story of the llls to this couple they're probably historians 50:00 or something to that effect because this is now the 19 probably the 1970s because we know that Tristan died 50:06 in the 60s so we see one stab looks quite old probably 80 or 90 here so he's probably oh who knows well it's 50:13 interesting because I did question at the end when he talks about that Tristan 50:19 he always thought he would die young but in fact it's the people he loved that died young he was a rock they broke thems El 50:27 against however much he tried to protect them he was the water they were the 50:33 rocks that got crumbled by trist's water either way I G to put the quote in 50:38 because he talks about water crumbling rock well he talks about with Susanna 50:43 Susanna was you can't blame Susanna for we'll talk about her character but he talks about Y how you can't blame 50:49 Susanna for breaking the Rocks she was the frozen water between the rocks that broke the family are you blame blame the 50:57 water for freezing in winter is it is it the water's fault that it freezes in Winter and then when it freezes in Winter it breaks the rock she was not to 51:04 blame she was like the water that freezes in the Rock and splits it apart 51:11 it was no more her fault and it is the fault of the water when the rock 51:16 shatters that is one of the best freaking metaphorical analogies of a of 51:22 a character so explicitly told so well in one sentence I can't even that's masterful writing in my opinion that 51:28 describes Susanna's character to a t Ty Ty and Gordon so Gordon however old one 51:35 stab is supposed to be when Tristan is 30 he's about the same age as the colonel so Anthony Hopkins was 56 at the 51:41 film and okay Gordon Gordon was 53 and I think their characters were about the AE they looked about the age of their 51:47 characters he would have to be insanely like extremely old to have witnessed Tristan's character get old 51:55 and have maybe in the film so let's just say he was 45 and then he lived to 90 yeah 52:02 because I remember very old in the T he looked very in the T that tracks then because he was like well Tristan died in 52:07 1963 and he became an old man and I was like well you were an old how old are you that like are you alive how how are 52:14 you yeah he could have died at 70 he looked like he was about 70 so that would have been old not ancient old the 52:20 way but I think one stab was I would say he was an ancient Elder you could kind of that it's a bit that lore you know 52:26 he's lived a little bit longer than probably he should have lived yeah that's right that little mystical to it 52:32 I think that's what that is too that he that one stab lived the longest to tell the story 52:38 yeah okay so he did a great job and so let's move back up to now the next person on our credits here let's talk 52:43 about of course but the lovely Julia arand I look I don't have a lot to say 52:48 about like her it's weird how this is the movie I know her from and as an 52:53 18-year-old boy let me just say I understood all the brother's feelings I got it I didn't blame one of them she is 53:01 stunning gorgeous intelligent funny that smile everything about her her figure 53:07 I'm being honest like everything about her was just like oh my gosh no wonder these boys just fell head over heels for 53:13 this girl so Samuel of course is engaged he brings her home and everyone is just floored by her and rightfully so and 53:20 what I do like though is that the boys did respect their Brother Sam despite 53:25 their own you know male urgin or whatever it was Samuel this was Samuel's fiance they had to put their own 53:31 feelings aside they were like you lucky dog you lucky son of a bee that's true I 53:37 did kind of I don't know I had a thought in my head when when uh when we first meet her Tristan's not there but um they 53:44 I don't know she's coming off a train or something and Alfred is there too and the look that Alfred gives her I was 53:50 like oo that's inappropriate this is your fiance little it's a little much I 53:56 I think it's a little much I mean would acted on it the father caught it too you know stop Ming over Miss Susanna and 54:02 come over here talk about the cattle that was done later in the film stop moaning over Miss fin Canon come in here 54:07 Samuel wants to know about those young cops you bringing up from cheyen I think that's that that's Alfred though he's 54:13 honest we talked about he's just so honest he's like yeah I'm more or less gawking but he's taking it all in like 54:19 this look how many females do they see on the ranch that's true uh like and she comes rolling into the you know we're 54:25 spoiled like men nowadays I want to see a pretty girl you know Google pretty girl like so these men didn't I don't 54:31 know what they saw back then or how much they saw in town or around this there's nobody that lives around them this woman 54:36 comes on to their farm and she's stunning and he's just kind of a gape yeah he's too honorable and he never 54:41 would do anything to Samuel he was floored by her of course then she meets Tristan and then I think that's funny 54:48 that you bring that I think the reverse now happens is that now Susanna's TR Susanna is now Alfred to Tristan yes I 54:56 and I felt the same way I was like dang it girl so this is 55:02 Tristan and does he speak English so like this is It's supposed to 55:08 be I've watched a few reaction videos on this movie it's just kind of fun to watch people react to this film on YouTube and people are like I don't know 55:15 how to feel about this and my answer is yes that's right we're supposed to be conflicted yeah are conflicted because 55:22 you love Samuel you the viewer why wouldn't you love Samuel he's innocent he's sweet he's kind naive why wouldn't 55:30 you love Alfred he's good he's pure he's honest he's Noble why wouldn't you love 55:35 Tristan he's handsome rugged strong wild yes to all three of them yeah 55:42 you're right and so of course you're conflicted because you're like who do I choose who do I want for Susanna your 55:48 answer is well you want them all for like if there was like polygamy for men you know she could have all well and she 55:53 does have all of them to us well she never got to sleep with Samuel funny enough no but they were they were a 55:59 couple yes they were a couple you're absolutely right they kissed and made out and got pretty passionate with each other but so back to Julia Arman have 56:08 you seen her in anything else do you recognize her from anything else she's been in a lot of stuff but it's she's had an interesting career and I think 56:14 there's a reason why it's been interesting but do you remember for from anything it's funny it's like you know 56:20 her name she's she's one of those people that it's like oh yeah you know her name from this film that's why that's I hate 56:26 to say it but this film was a this film's a huge film this film's a huge this is the first time I met Aiden Quinn 56:32 this is the first time I well this is the first film I saw after science Lambs where I saw Anthony Hopkins so people 56:38 forget this is the film now i' I've said this before about Brad Pit I knew Brad Pit before this film because I was such 56:45 a movie goer but I didn't know yeah me too but I didn't know Brad Pit no no like I'm talking real time watching of 56:51 his films I saw California I saw a river runs through it in the theater I saw saw this in the the but he wasn't Brad Pit 56:58 then I saw riverruns through the theater because Robert Redford directed that film and it looked really nice in the cinematograph I like those kind of films 57:04 I've always been a hack for those films this is the film though that even Roger Deber and jeene Cisco were like oh Brad 57:10 Pit's gonna be a star yeah this is his star making role he wasn't the star we 57:16 retroactively see that now watching this fil but keep in mind when people saw this in the film I would say 90% of the 57:22 film goers didn't know who brat pit was when they saw this in the theaters a river runs through pretty big movie though wasn't it no it wasn't it wasn't 57:29 it I think it was well received by critics but it wasn't it wasn't a no you're probably right this probably did 57:34 or wait Interview with a Vampire was before this wasn't it after okay no you're probably right it's funny because 57:41 Julie orand I know her name but this is really the only she's done a lot of things but she's like famous from this 57:49 film period and now she did do funny enough later in her career she did The Walking Dead TV show the world Beyond 57:55 she was the main role for that for 11 episodes she's done some TV stuff but it's funny now there's a reason there's 58:02 a reason apparently when to hear the reason I would love to hear the reason well guess who was a powerful Mogul 58:10 around the time of Legends of the Fall who was a mid90s producer [ __ ] 58:16 sorry I might leave that in there because it's very apropo for this piece of shite yeah Harvey Harvey Weinstein 58:23 did heinstein I don't know the details but you know trigger warant I guess there's some essay that he did to her 58:29 and she turned it down and did not reciprocate type thing and apparently it affected her movie career because he was 58:35 known to do that kind of thing yep he can make or break you I'll make or break yep yep and that was his personality at 58:41 the time this is midnight this is Peak Harvey man his powers and he also did this to edwick he did it to Julia now 58:47 Julia just recently last couple years has sued Disney and Harvey for those 58:53 assaults good yeah I don't know what the outcome is just yet and I'll say this about Julie ran as well she seems just 59:00 as lovely in real life as she is uh during well I say during her hate and she's 29 during this film by the way she 59:06 looked amazing gorgeous we all age we all get older I'm not saying anything bad I'm just saying she's 16 now so we 59:11 look different 60 and then we do when we're 30 of course I will too and you will everyone does lovely woman still 59:16 but so during this time when she peaked into some America films she turned on Harvey's advances and her film roles 59:22 kind of went wof and you can kind of see that with the film like why is there such weird lws and not much happening 59:28 here and there and not big films because Harvey black that's really I don't even 59:34 too bad isn't the right way to say it but but she to her credit she has done 59:40 amazing work in the humanitarian world uh with the AIDS prevention and uh other 59:45 things her philanthropy is it's amazing so stuff like this she's been fighting human trafficking since the mid 90s 59:52 she's in a partnership with the United Nations office on drugs and crime she's an advocate for the transatlantic 59:57 partners that againsts aids she is raising awareness of AIDS in Russia and Ukraine she's the co-chairman of film a 1:00:03 international she's the United Nations Goodwill Ambassador anti-human trafficking all this stuff the House of 1:00:10 Representative work so I wish she got more credit for that because that is more important work than being a 1:00:16 Hollywood actress you know Agreed 100% agree so me to be part of a why her time is taken away from the real yeah the 1:00:23 real work we love being we love being entertained I'm sure people love to entertain people but yeah you're right when it comes down to it this is the 1:00:29 real work so we we bless you uh Julia we're sorry you went through anything I would love look that guy should just 1:00:35 freaking D in his cell already um anyways yeah he's a piece of crap Julia I'm sorry you went through that before 1:00:41 we move on to Aiden Susanna played by Julia her character I think the part of 1:00:46 her that was is interesting I think she I I think for her I hate to I how should 1:00:52 I say this I sound like a total jerk here and I don't mean to be if you were to measure some 's she was the most not 1:00:59 good yes you're right she was Smitten by Tristan and never got over it and it affected her to the point where it's 1:01:05 it's it was like a poison Tristan was like a poison to her I don't know how to describe it she just couldn't be happy 1:01:11 without him she felt that fleeting moment of happiness but Tristan's bear was too wild at the time yeah obviously 1:01:18 Susanna's like I love you forever I'll wait forever she was so smitten so when she finally got him got to bet him and 1:01:24 be with him she couldn't have been happier dot dot dot when she lost him and married Alfred she was never the she 1:01:31 was never happy and then when she found out that you know he got married and had kids she couldn't have kids like one 1:01:37 either Alfred or her were Barren and as they say in the film she shoots herself 1:01:42 she is probably the most tragic character in the whole story Tristan's pretty I mean he's gone through some 1:01:48 stuff but yeah no he went through some stuff but he's not a tragic character well that's true the way his life ended 1:01:56 that's true you're right and you feel it like that jail when she goes to visit Tristan in the in jail still sometimes 1:02:05 dream that I'm the mother of your 1:02:13 children I wanted her to die or maybe I even wanted Samuel to die 1:02:20 it was that scene where it cemented me like oh she's kind of a and that's that sealed it when Tristan heard that like 1:02:26 you got to go well he didn't blame her for that but I think he knew that if he 1:02:31 they embraced and it was and she tried to kiss him and he wouldn't I think he just knew that she could never get over 1:02:39 him and he would just be making it worse if they yes and she recognized that she 1:02:44 would never get over Tristan so she killed herself she literally killed herself because she would never get over Tristan or ever have him I had forgotten 1:02:51 that that happened and right before that she why do you think she cuts her her hair right before that she was 1:02:58 destroying her beauty maybe it's easier to kill something that's ugly H I'm not sure but symbolic of 1:03:06 course mour isn't there some sort of symbology with mour to cut your hair when you're in morning oh I don't know I 1:03:13 better podcast would know this kind of stuff okay but let's just say Julia Armand killed this role her acting was 1:03:19 amazing the conf the confliction the joy the sadness when she was talking to 1:03:24 Young Samuel the Tristan's son at the fairground and she's like oh I'd love to come see that the way her teeth are 1:03:31 together the way she talks it was so well done her I used to know your Uncle Samuel who died in the war I think you 1:03:38 look like him that's what grandpa says he was very 1:03:43 brave very good Granda says that too Granda says I can have Uncle Samuel done 1:03:50 when I'm bigger would you come and see it I'd love to 1:03:59 sometime the way she emotes this pained person incredible acting again why she 1:04:06 didn't get herself get an Oscar nomination I'm not sure that scene too was it brought back because the son 1:04:13 Tristan's son is named Samuel Decker after the brother and his the father of 1:04:20 uh Isel to and Julia is Susanna 1:04:26 is saying oh my gosh you you remind me of him well that's what my grandpa says 1:04:31 and then she keeps going on and on that's what grandpa says it's just and she's got these tears and she had 1:04:37 previously told or maybe it was afterwards Tristan we have a 1:04:42 boy I'd like to call him Samuel and then he does and then she even tells Tristan 1:04:48 that she dreams or wishes that she was the mother of his children she still dreams that they would have children 1:04:53 together and that's when she started saying about I wish that there was times I wish that Salon would die but Tristan 1:05:00 forgave her you know he wasn't mad he goes you know their deaths have nothing to do you can think all you want about 1:05:06 that but their deaths actually had nothing to do with your selfish thoughts so to speak okay great job Julia let's 1:05:12 talk about Aiden Quinn after watching this again for the first time in a few years he for me was the MVP of this film 1:05:19 I thought Aiden's acting in this film was out freaking standing I relate to his character more I'm 1:05:27 his personality type the way he is I thought Aiden's acting this film was out 1:05:33 freaking now I get it Brad is Brad we get it I love Brad Pit he's one of my I actually love Brad Pit I've seen all of 1:05:39 his films practically I've been a fan of his for 35 years no issues with Brad but Aiden here in this film I think un it's 1:05:46 just it's the shadow Brad that c that he cast through no fault of anyone else's boy Aiden's acting as the stable brother 1:05:54 is so well done when he yell at his father and says I loved her then I love her still that sequence there when he's 1:06:00 holding the letter he used her and he deserted her your darling Tristan Al 1:06:06 don't please I loved her I love her still that was such an amazing act by 1:06:12 Aiden but everything that every scene that Aiden's in as Alfred I thought he just I thought he was so good in his 1:06:18 deliveries everything I couldn't agree more boy MVP is hard with this movie because right I don't disagree with you 1:06:27 I just think like boy it's just everybody really brought it but I will say like looking through my notes the 1:06:33 timestamps that I wrote down most of them involve Aiden most of the scenes 1:06:39 the scene that you were just talking about where Alfred and the dad get in a fight over Tristan and Susanna and he 1:06:45 says he stole her from me he stole her from Samuel amazing I mean that's your Oscar scene also the scene where Aiden 1:06:54 realizes that Tristan and Susan have slept 1:06:59 together and then he that scene the next morning you will marry her and then they 1:07:05 you know are you you're you're not going to make her happy you're Tristan you can't you can't possibly make her happy not the way like a longterm right the 1:07:12 real not the He's the bad boy on the motorcycle yeah the girl might be happy hanging out to her boyfriend on the M 1:07:18 but he'll break her that's right he'll break it Alfred is the guy that'll bring the city paycheck home and a safe home 1:07:25 with a nice little little kids and the family Christmas tree that's the happiness Aiden's talking about Y and 1:07:30 trist's like I'll try and Aiden's delivery of you will fail you will 1:07:37 fail oh it's just such a like I thought trist was GNA punch him there but even Tristan I think deep down was like man 1:07:45 freaking Alfred there's animosity between those two and then there's animosity between Alfred and the dad 1:07:51 because Tristan's the favorite and he's always coming to the rescue Al does have good points that SCS great at the end or 1:08:00 towards the end when he says you know they've made up I think by this time because Alfred 1:08:07 comes through and shoots one of the the bad guys to save his brother and his dad and and the family when they come 1:08:13 towards the end I think it's after that that he he's like I followed all the 1:08:19 rules that was at the grave okay but still near the end of the film where he's talking they're looking at the uh 1:08:24 this is where buried Susanna and yes and he like I F the man's law and God's this 1:08:31 is my my reward as a dead wife that I love from day one Tristan you followed 1:08:37 none of them and you got everyone's love and adoration they all loved you 1:08:42 more Samuel father am 1:08:47 I eating my own wife and but then I love he says can I 1:08:52 have some a moment alone with my wife and Tristan leaves so that's what I mean Tristan is not a tragic character 1:08:59 tragedy is around him good point a difference he's actually very honorable in his own right 1:09:05 he's actually in his own way he's honorable and he just he's wild like Alfred called him but he's not 1:09:11 dishonorable and he's not a jerk he's not an a-hole he is wild but honorable 1:09:16 and he loves his brothers ironically he loves Alfred so much as we know you're 1:09:21 right quick to forgive yeah and again that's realistic with families right you have strife and 1:09:28 you have arguments and and maybe even in their case go years without talking but 1:09:34 at the end of the day they're Brothers they love each other I also to your point about Tristan being honorable I 1:09:40 really I took note of the bar scene when bartender won't serve one stab I loved 1:09:47 that scene he beats the [ __ ] out of him and this is when he is mad like he's 1:09:52 kind of gone mad and after that is when the dad looks at him Anthony Hopkins just gives him this look like oh I wow I 1:10:01 did not realize until now how damaged yes you were or are yeah from the war 1:10:08 and stuff absolutely okay uh let's move on to Anthony Hopkins of course so 1:10:13 Anthony Hopkins was 56 at the time of the film which is crazy because Brad Pitt's now four years older than 1:10:19 Anthony well I thought at the beginning I don't know if they filmwise in the 90s 1:10:24 what the could do to make someone look younger but boy he looked pretty young look I always loved Anthony I think he's 1:10:30 great I will say the first time I knew Anthony was science of lambs that was the first film I got to know him because 1:10:35 I'm a huge Jodie Foster fan I'm in love with her I was always in love with her as a teen I know it's funny you are huh 1:10:41 oh I love Jodie I you know she's still lovely she's just older now we all get old but she's still lovely Regal woman I 1:10:47 I know she doesn't swing my way that's fine and in fact when it came out I I me I was like oh not I there was a small 1:10:53 part of she's only 13 years old to me maybe she'll find in her heart to I'm not even joking I I fantasized about 1:11:00 marrying her as a teenager I was so in love with her I totally crushed on her she was my celebrity crush and she's an 1:11:07 amazing actress and she's so intelligent smart my crush was Jordie Foster I had a 1:11:12 huge that's interesting yeah yeah and the reason that you couldn't get her is because she's gay she's gay right so 1:11:19 that's the only reason I think if she was straight she'd probably D yeah yeah that's how I am with Matt Bower I'm like but he's gay as if that's why I couldn't 1:11:27 get it that's the only reason that's our plot in life we both crushed on the wrong sexuality so H good for her bad 1:11:34 for me okay um so Anthony yeah he looked F very handsome in this film uh very 1:11:39 cool his delivery his lines his his regalness look it's Sir Anthony Hopkins 1:11:45 incredible what else can you say about this guy in his role as Colonel William lble again I mean this is just an 1:11:51 All-Star cast it was interesting like he was great but he didn't overshadow like he was 1:11:57 just the right amount of playing the patriarch but he didn't overact in in so 1:12:04 as to overshine any of the brothers any of the younger cast I loved towards the 1:12:10 end when they all make up when Alfred so so badly needs his father's approval and 1:12:18 adoration and he doesn't get it he doesn't get it he doesn't get it and then that that scene when essentially 1:12:24 Alfred comes through shooting the shooting that guy then that's when they make up and that that scene with Anthony 1:12:31 Hopkins and Aiden Quinn I I loved it I was like oh that's what he needed I know 1:12:37 people see this film as a sad film it's it's a tragic film it's tragedy tragedy 1:12:42 befalls his family in many ways yes but there's also healing and growth I mean 1:12:47 out of these hardships there's death absolutely but the fact that Alfred gets the kids to I hate to say the kids 1:12:53 probably have a better dad out of Alfred even Tristan kind of like Tristan can't be a father without he's too much of a 1:13:00 Grizzly is inside of him so his kids are gonna have a stable home life he knows by giving the kids to Alfred that 1:13:06 there's stability there I would suspect Alfred will have no trouble finding another woman he's very well to do he's 1:13:12 in Congress he's Rich he'll find a wife he's very handsome here too ad Quinn's a 1:13:18 handsome man do not uh what's the word uh what's the word you look what you say um don't sleep on or thank you yeah 1:13:24 thank you that's the term yeah don't sleep on Aiden in this film I love him yeah okay I put the stories that Ed 1:13:30 shares in order that he told in the book I didn't put them in order of the characters because it's just too much work I'm sorry so we'll do a little bit 1:13:36 of back and forth he had the most to say about his time with Brad so let's just go right into it right now Ed's first 1:13:43 meeting with Brad one day in 1989 something odd was happening in the 1:13:49 30-some offices the female assistants kept disappearing I'd walk into the Bullpen 1:13:55 and find it empty one by one women were making up excuses to visit the Sound 1:14:01 Stage it seems word had spread that a dreamy actor was working that day on an episode for the third season his name 1:14:08 was Brad Pitt he had been cast as a day player with one line in the episode 1:14:15 while confronting their diminished sex life hope and Michael come home early from an evening out to discover the 1:14:20 babysitter in flagrante decto with her boyfriend played by br head his line 1:14:26 spoken when he looks up and sees the grownup standing there is hey apparently 1:14:32 it was enough to set Hearts A flutter I couldn't have known then that Brad and I were faded to meet again I actually 1:14:38 looked on YouTube for that I did find the scene for it is so grainy and you'd have to buy the DVD rip it from the I 1:14:45 don't know who put it on you it's there but it's not even worth showing because it's so grainy but that's exactly as I 1:14:50 described it you can't even really see his face but anyway so yeah true story so 89 bread pit probably looked pretty 1:14:57 similar to the thelman Louise version was that like 9091 something like that 1:15:03 yeah that version is wow that's when I was like whoa who is this so what makes 1:15:11 him handsome then what what is it about him that you find so okay this is gonna sound weird Brad Pitt's not my guy oh 1:15:19 okay um I don't like the Legends of the Fall version of him because I don't like the home look there was a period of time 1:15:27 in the in the '90s I liked his hair I like clean shape like if you've got a beautiful face came back after his 1:15:32 adventures and stuff he came back settled when he put to sleep he had he 1:15:38 had the long hair without the beard remember that se yeah a little bit but I'm I'm picturing him more like in thin 1:15:44 Louise when he's got great hair and it's shorter I don't like the long scruffy 1:15:49 hair it's shorter and well first of all it's bone structure a little bit the way he talks he's Charming he's got that 1:15:56 sparkle in his eye he's he's kind of Sly he's got a great body but he's not my 1:16:03 type I know that sounds weird like I do find him very attractive I can see why he's such talk about Jord Foster to me 1:16:09 like I could list you girls that look quote unquote better like it's hard to 1:16:15 explain know 1998 Jennifer Love huitt For example you know of course like 1:16:21 right but I'm attracted to Jodie Fosters so attraction is a funny thing you could say something is attractive but you're 1:16:28 not attracted to it but yeah he's not Italian so he's not my that's true he's 1:16:33 tan with a good bone structure I mean yeah I think a lot of it isn't necessarily his actual look but his he's 1:16:42 got a presence he's got a Charisma to him well Charisma is absolutely it is charisma you're right there's a lot of good-looking guys and girls a lot of 1:16:48 goodlooking guys very very handsome men who are even more better looking than Brad but they're like they're like zero 1:16:55 yeah Zero Charisma be in a JC Penney catalog you you're very generic even 1:17:00 girls I'm like well yeah you're gorgeous but like right I've seen them on Tik Tok or whatever I see girls that are quote 1:17:05 unquote pretty I'm like I listen to talk for 30 I'm done I can't listen to you I don't want to I don't know who dates you 1:17:11 because the way you speak the way I do like intelligence well I'm glad to hear that I'm glad to hear of course no I 1:17:17 believe or not I'm not that shallow like I like a goodl looking like my wife for example she's very she is attractive but 1:17:24 what I love about her is that she's intelligent she's smart she's put together like I couldn't be with someone 1:17:29 some guys can I get it all I know this is a strange question but like I could say yeah like Julia Orman Karina Lombard 1:17:36 they're both immensely gorgeous it's always the joke like if I was to go gay it' be Brad Pit type D like you hear guy 1:17:42 say that I'm not afraid to say it no I think I think Brad is very handsome it's funny maybe I'm crushing on Aiden a 1:17:48 little bit more I think U same I I actually think Aiden is I think he's conventionally more handsome 1:17:54 conventionally more handsome yeah I agree no he's a very smart well put together guy and Henry is a is a cute 1:17:59 boy you know so yeah so it's funny I think if I was Julia or if I was Susanna 1:18:05 I might have picked Aiden so I think I would have been exactly like Julia in this movie The cute sweet boy the 1:18:12 Innocence probably got me there okay and then I'm like yeah Aidan's great all but 1:18:19 man look at Tristan I would have been the same exact way foolish it's foolish 1:18:25 speaking of casting and speaking of I was just going to ask the question if Brad Pit didn't exist but this film did 1:18:31 who would be Tristan well definitely not Tom Cruz I can tell you that much long 1:18:37 before Robert Duval started in Lonesome Dove he had been good friends with Bill whitlie he also knew the novel quite 1:18:43 well when medavoy sent him the script he attached himself to play William Ludo 1:18:49 the focus then shifted to castian Tristan medavoy was intent on getting Tom Cruz and had CA send him the script 1:18:57 Cruz read it and invited me to come to Wyoming where he was in the middle of filming Far and Away on Howard whose 1:19:03 reputation as the nicest man in Hollywood is deserved greeted me warmly and we chatted as directors invariably 1:19:10 do about actors he corroborated what I had heard many times before Tom Cruz was 1:19:17 a director's dream as I was to learn in years to come that is entirely 1:19:22 true we never got to talking about the the legend script I quickly realized this was more of a meet and greet than a 1:19:28 meeting but Tom did seem interested in the few thoughts I managed to slip in about the movie and asked if we could 1:19:35 meet again when he returned to LA in a couple of weeks we met again a few weeks later 1:19:41 this time Tom had some penetrating and helpful things to say about the script but after an hour or so he asked about 1:19:47 Tristan's ethics to which I responded that he essentially had none and that was at the heart of the character it was 1:19:54 then I realized that he would never do the movie I'm told his question had something to do with Scientology but if 1:20:01 it did it was the only time over the course of making movies together that it's ever found its way into a creative 1:20:08 conversation in any case Tom eventually demurred we wouldn't see each other again for 10 years when we did it would 1:20:15 be one of the most gratifying experiences of my career but for now my hunt for Tristan continued there is no 1:20:22 world I cannot see it Tom Cruz what 1:20:28 would be interesting I can almost see Tom Cruz maybe playing the Aiden part yeah or even Samuel I can see too small 1:20:34 of a role back then Tom was too high of an actor way too high in the 90s then but I would say um yeah that' be an 1:20:41 interesting casting dilemma but G Tom Cruz gets the film made that's the thing but you have to keep that in mind so 1:20:46 this yeah I know he had to convince no that would have been horrible casting not the right casting CH what I do like 1:20:52 to hear and I I'm not surprised to hear it Tom Cruz is a director's dream I like that you say what you want about Tom 1:20:59 Outside the movie industry inside the movie industry the hardest working man in Hollywood this guy he's the first one 1:21:05 to set last one to leave takes Direction works hard knows his job plays the role 1:21:10 doesn't cause any drama like well yeah in this case I'm glad that his Scientology got in the way of him doing 1:21:16 this film because I I wouldn't like it with him in it well we don't know for sure we don't know he said it might have 1:21:21 had to do with that but what I also like what he said too if it did they did Last Samurai together and Jack Reacher part 1:21:26 two together zck is saying the creative choices that we talked about it never 1:21:31 came up okay well that's good so but it might have at this point but it never did with the other two films it yeah so 1:21:38 I'm trying to think like Matt Dylan was kind of a hot at this time I could see them maybe now I would have to go 1:21:44 through some actors that'd be a fun exercise because who could do it that's a well I know who could do it but who 1:21:50 has the name I think vgo mortson would have been good too but he wasn't big no 1:21:56 he wasn't big but that's fine that Brad don't forget Brad wasn't quite Brad then he was I know I thought we were trying 1:22:01 to in terms of getting the film made he had to convince them Brad you he did 1:22:06 have to convince them with Brad so that's a well let's talk about let's talk about how Ed and brat meet again to discuss the films let's talk about that 1:22:12 early part of this right now I'd never given up hope on getting Legends made and was always looking for the right 1:22:18 actor to play Tristan in the years since his fleeting appearance on 30s something Brad Pitt's career had gained traction I 1:22:26 made a point of following each thing he did and watched his craft grow from movie to movie yet even after starring 1:22:32 in Robert Redford's a river runs through it and then his memorable shirtless appearance in thelman Louise I was still 1:22:39 unable to persuade medavoy that Brad could carry our movie nevertheless I asked his agents if he'd like to meet 1:22:47 sitting with him in my office only confirm my instincts it's not enough that a movie star be handsome it's the 1:22:54 unn able thing behind their eyes suggesting a fascinating inner life whether they have one or not that 1:23:00 somehow emanates we don't know what's going on inside their heads but we desperately want to and often that's 1:23:07 enough Brad also had a genuine passion for the script and a strong attraction 1:23:13 to the character growing up in rural Missouri he had known men like Tristan he said when he left the meeting I felt 1:23:20 I had found the right actor he's got away with words obviously you said he's a writer because the way he wrote that I 1:23:29 like the way he said there's something behind behind the eyes that you you maybe don't know and and that's okay 1:23:34 that you don't know I that was great also I just thought of somebody zck related that had the name recognition 1:23:41 that would have been good also look more like the brothers Rob 1:23:47 low you know it's so Rob's such a sweetie though 1:23:52 he's such a sweet guy and I mean that with the old but we we're impressed by his acting and he's so pretty he doesn't 1:23:58 get credit for his acting you know that's true it would have but you know what that would be an interesting Universe to see him tackle a that type 1:24:06 of role yeah to see he looks more like the other brothers too he does with the with dark hair and colored eyes good 1:24:13 catch I like that I like that we've talked about Brad we're gonna get to a story here of Ed and Brad and some of 1:24:20 their creative say differences but the Ed pulling things of Brad but we talked about the beginning of the episode 1:24:26 already about Brad's emoting I think Brad P envisioned himself being more stoic than and envisioned what we saw on 1:24:33 screen which I'm grateful for that he got that out of Brad days before shooting we held a table read given the 1:24:40 scripts dependence on narration and visuals it didn't play well in the sterile conference room I could see 1:24:46 Brad's growing discomfort as it went on hours afterward his agent called the studio to say Brad wanted to quit and 1:24:53 would reimburse the cost of prep fine said the studio lawyers all he had to do 1:24:58 was write a check for $2 million Marshall spent some time talking to Brad and it was never mentioned again 1:25:05 but it was the first augury of the deeper Springs of emotion roing inside Brad he seems easygoing at first but he 1:25:13 can be volatile when ried as I was to be reminded more than once the shooting began and we took each other's measure I 1:25:19 don't know I think a lot of actors have pretty big egos by nature of being an actor doesn't surprise me yeah I like 1:25:28 how he says he seems he seems amicable and easygo at first but when push comes 1:25:35 to shove something gets lit now that comes through in the acting that can come through and yeah so there's another 1:25:41 story here of course Ed shares where they talk about some of their creative differences regarding the filming as the shoot continued Brad's anxiety about the 1:25:48 movie Never quite went away Brad would get edgy whenever he was about to shoot a scene that required him to display 1:25:54 deep emotion it was here that his ideas about Tristan differed from mine Brad 1:25:59 had grown up with men who held their emotions in check I believe the point of the novel was that a man's life was the 1:26:06 sum of his griefs Steve Rosenblum my editor had been complaining in dailies that he was having trouble cutting 1:26:12 scenes where Brad's stoicism appeared more blank than internal I agreed yet 1:26:17 the more I pushed Brad to reveal himself the more he resisted so I kept pushing and Brad 1:26:25 pushed back one afternoon I started giving him Direction out loud in front of the crew a stupid shaming provocation 1:26:32 and Brad came back at me also out loud telling me to back off the considered 1:26:37 move would have been to tell the crew to take five and for the two of us to talk it out but I was feeling bloody minded 1:26:44 and not about to relent I was angry at Brad for not trusting me to influence his performance also for the reluctance 1:26:51 he'd shown after the first table read who knows I might even have been acting up my own 1:26:56 inability to be vulnerable but Brad wasn't about to give in without a fight 1:27:01 in his defense I was pushing him to do something he felt was either wrong for the character or more emo than he wanted 1:27:08 to appear on screen I don't know who yelled first who swore or who threw the 1:27:13 first chair but when we looked up the crew had disappeared and this wasn't the 1:27:18 last time it happened yet after each blow up Brad and I would make up and mean it it was never 1:27:26 personal Brad is a forthright straightforward person fun to be with and capable of great joy he was never 1:27:34 anything less than fully committed to doing his best when all was said and done the 1:27:39 movie Brad and I made reflected the depth of our passion was it worth it I'd 1:27:45 have to say yes it's interesting it came together really well they you know 1:27:50 settled their differences but then they don't talk for a while and they never worked never worked together again well 1:27:55 it's obviously they're both very passionate and Brad's a very passionate actor fully committed to the role that's 1:28:01 good in one way you've got this actor who who is committed like hey I want to give the best product too and you got the director like yeah well this is the 1:28:07 best product what I need out of you and I do like how he's saying like you're being too stoic so I get what the 1:28:13 director is saying Ed he's saying you can't be too internal we got to show something to the screen we gotta you're 1:28:20 have to display some sort of emotions and I don't know if Brad has done it quite this way again 1:28:27 his vulnerability and the crying in this film that he does and the tears of Love 1:28:33 Of Joy of pain of Agony of Sorrow that he shows through the character Tristan I 1:28:39 don't know if he's ever toed that level again yeah it's pretty incredible and 1:28:44 hearing that story I mean and I can see it from both sides like if Brad doesn't think it's right but you should trust 1:28:51 your director and I'm so glad that Ed pushed because there were just so 1:28:59 innumerable scenes where Brad it you just feel what he's feeling because he 1:29:06 emoted externally I think that's partly why I think I hate this not hate to say 1:29:11 but I would speculate or Reason to guess a lot of the females love Tristan as the 1:29:17 character is because you see this rugged tough guy emoting showing emotions had 1:29:22 Brad maybe got his way a little bit more of like I am stoic things affect them but I will not show it stoicism isn't 1:29:28 about not feeling it's it's not letting the things around you affect you emotionally outwardly so you're you're 1:29:35 displaying all this but you need to see as a viewer of the film to some degree 1:29:40 but he was very stoic I I thought it was a perfect balance whatever they worked out together as director and actor I 1:29:46 think they did a very good job of balancing and of showing the emotions from all the actors uh I think that's 1:29:53 what we I love about this film is all the men sort of cry to somee you hit the 1:29:58 nail on the head though Ryan that literally epitomizes what women we love a bad boy 1:30:06 with the soft side you hit it and uh Susanna is like I want to help you we're 1:30:12 like come to me I'll help you I'll do whatever I'll do whatever it is she 1:30:17 asked him too would you stay if I was pregnant and then when he says no I was like he's leaving I'm glad he says no 1:30:24 he's determined to do this no matter what I was half expecting suzan to say well I am pregnant I'm late I'm 1:30:32 late but I can't recommend this book highly enough We Touch touched on most of it he just talked about how working 1:30:38 with James Herer wasn't again another great amazing experience and then when I learned it was James Herer I'm like of 1:30:43 course it was James Herer there's a specific scene it's almost it's almost like Tristan's s anytime Tristan comes back 1:30:51 there's this surge there's this musical queue and like H it's it's just magical 1:30:57 so one scene that I I forgotten about but it's the it's called the l l theme is the big theme where it has that 1:31:05 piano oh yeah it's called The Love L theme but what I love is we see Samuel 1:31:11 Sing lyrics to that song in the film when they're when in the Parlor after dinner 1:31:17 yes as evening fell a maiden stood at the edge of a 1:31:24 I kid you not because it's been a few years since I've seen the film so when Samu started singing the theme I I started crying I not balling but like oh 1:31:32 yep okay okay oh wow I'm a sucker for the score like the score kicks in I just 1:31:37 get so emotional because you know it's coming as a viewer that's the thing I probably wouldn't felt that way the first time I saw it because I know 1:31:43 that's the L little theme and you got Samuel singing the theme and you're just like oh Samuel you sweet sweet person 1:31:50 yeah I know uh oh and the other thing that Ed talked about regarding Aiden a couple stories real quick I'll share 1:31:56 Aiden he just said Aiden was as we could expect con professional so funny enough it doesn't really have a lot of stories 1:32:02 to share with people when they're just good just Aiden was there did the job did it amazing just no issues just 1:32:09 probably another director's dream I'm not surprised by that Aiden's been working in this industry a long time you never hear anything bad about the guy 1:32:15 and he also said regarding Anthony Hopkins it was he said he and Anthony would eat together breakfast that they were the first ones up at the time 1:32:22 Anthony would look the the script and the pages of the script Ed saw that he wrote wrote NE in the script and he 1:32:29 asked Anthony what does ne mean he says well it means no no acting required that's great that was a great 1:32:36 story also but what he calls him it's Sir Anthony Hopkins and call me Tony 1:32:44 that's right call me Tony that's right yeah yeah it's fantastic yeah I love it when I showed Brad the final film he 1:32:50 wasn't pleased he felt I'd underplayed his characters Madness I had in fact cut only a single 1:32:57 shot from the scene where Tristan is Raging with fever screaming as the waves wash over him on the 1:33:02 Schooner now you know the scene he's talking about it's weird because it's very quick and when even when I see it's 1:33:08 like why is he freaking out like that he's being held down by people and he's screaming his body's arcing on the boat it's a very quick 1:33:14 scene so he's talking about that scene there okay so I think he says he he says well I took that out but I guess he put 1:33:20 it back in for Brad and I admit as a viewer I'm like what the freak's going on here why is he like freaking out I 1:33:26 thought he was just like having a panic or some sort of attack but his body I guess is racked with a fever so he's got 1:33:31 people you know trying to tie him down so really quickly they showed this film to a test audience and there was a scene 1:33:36 that was cut out between Tristan and Susanna they actually kissed they kissed 1:33:41 in the Final Cut of the film or the original cut of the film there was so when they're in that beginning scene where they're in the Parlor and the 1:33:48 they're showing the pain to the mom and Susanna is asking Tristan or why did she leave and then they hug each other and 1:33:53 it looks like they're about to kiss before War before the war before War that's right before the war so Samuel's 1:33:59 still engaged they haven't left for war yet and they do kiss and then you see 1:34:04 Alfred walk in he looks really pissed off well all that stuff had to be kept in there's even dialogue in the film 1:34:10 talking about you know your son stole Samuel before the war now we're led to believe he's just referring to the fact 1:34:16 that you know Suzanne's heart was stolen but Alfred actually saw the kiss so his 1:34:21 character saw the kiss but they didn't change all the other dialogue when you understand that if you want to get down 1:34:27 to it they did kiss in the parlor that makes other scenes afterwards make more sense but they took out the kiss scene 1:34:33 because audiences got mad at Tristan and they didn't want that in the film they didn't want audiences to hate Tristan it 1:34:39 works either way though but once you know the subtlety of that go back and watch Aiden how he speaks to that moment 1:34:45 because they just kind of hugged each other it was an almost kiss and so I think Alfred either way whether I agree 1:34:51 removing the kiss makes us like more but I think Alfred walking in or seeing that 1:34:57 either way he's like no bueno dude of course it's still no bueno but it's just 1:35:03 with the kiss it was very no bueno against Tristan yeah yeah oh true yeah that's why it was taken out they 1:35:08 actually took it out to make trist not so not like that's the point he is Honorable he's not a bad person he's 1:35:14 just wild so by taking out that he keeps his Integrity which I think was actually very good to do thate um before we 1:35:20 finish this too it's interesting that Brad said that he took out the madness that's I can see Brad being you know 30 1:35:25 years old he's kind of like gu I'm I'm mad I'm crazy but I'm glad that had ton 1:35:31 that part of it down it goes yes you're dealing with demons but you're not demonic and I I like how they kept him 1:35:36 like you are dealing with demons but you're actually you're not as crazy as you want to be on screen I'm glad they 1:35:43 toned that down Ed's instincts were fullon correct with this movie I agreed 1:35:49 but it was a shot he dearly loved and it would have been little enough to leave it in and I should have apologies Brad 1:35:57 because he didn't leave it in but I swear I've seen it or maybe it was longer in the film there's a scene there is a scene with him squirming on the bed 1:36:02 being held in pain I thought maybe that's what he's referring to but maybe it's longer or different okay he was 1:36:08 also unhappy when people named him sexiest man of the year something for which I take neither credit nor blame I 1:36:16 love it why would you be unhappy about that I mean I guess you're like I'm an actor take me seriously but please I I 1:36:22 see this is what's crazy czy okay I understand what he's saying I get what you're saying too but the way it's 1:36:29 that's why I love what Ed saying look I don't take credit or blame for it meaning like but they filmed the guy the way they filmed there's no way the the 1:36:36 production team the makeup Department the caution department they got to know he looks good on SC like you get what 1:36:42 I'm saying he's Tristan he looks the way he looks this isn't some frumpy Guy this 1:36:48 is Brad Pit looking like Tristan with the beard the long hair it's kind of like well you're damned if you like this 1:36:54 is the character you have to be somebody that steals the show the hearts of everyone 1:37:00 around you you're Tristan people are going to name you sex0 person Al so I don't know why you're mad at me about that that's not my fault additionally 1:37:06 maybe Brad just like he probably secretly did love it but externally he was like I want to be a serious actor 1:37:12 but he wouldn't have had the career he's had if he weren't named you know I mean 1:37:18 what that did for his career was elevate it Beyond because otherwise he could have just been there's plenty of a 1:37:23 attractive men we talk yeah Charisma so I I think again I wonder what career he 1:37:29 would have had again if he never did this film it I think this film was a cat not say he wouldn't have been but this film was that catapult uhuh seen him 1:37:36 with the long hair the beard and everything the way it swooped woman's Hearts he became the heart this is the movie where he's now the heartrob end of 1:37:43 story despite Brad's reservations expectations for the film built steadily in the leadup to its 1:37:49 release after Brad and I were both nominated and lost at the golden glob 1:37:54 and despite John tol's Oscar and the unexpected commercial success of Legends and the subsequent doubling of mine and 1:38:01 Brad's fees I've note there story they talked about how they took a pay cut for this film with the backend deal that the 1:38:08 movie does well they get so they actually got they got doubled their fees ironically by saying no fees they get 1:38:14 doubled their fees at the money the movie uh made money so in today's money it would have been made for 70 million 1:38:20 in today's money but it made almost 400 million at the box office wow oh do you know what their salaries were then no 1:38:26 they didn't say but apparently Ed said something to effect like it was one of the better financial 1:38:31 decisions of their career so take that for what it is yeah Brad and I didn't speak for a year I was sad that he was 1:38:38 unhappy I liked him despite our differences we had both given our all to the movie later when the studio asked me 1:38:45 to do the director's commentary I asked if Brad would be doing one they said he was considering it I called Brad and 1:38:53 suggested did we do the commentary together we decided to have dinner first afterward we smoked a joint and talked 1:39:00 for hours we were so high we barely got to the recording session if you listen 1:39:05 closely you can hear us giggling later walking to our cars Brad 1:39:11 sighed man I didn't know what I was doing half the time on set Brad I said I 1:39:17 don't know what I'm doing most of the time on set we hugged it was a nice 1:39:22 moment we've never worked together again they settled their differences that's good 1:39:27 they put a u a pin on it or they closed that door they haven't worked together again but Brad's just had that different 1:39:34 type of a career sure we know Ed did work with Denzel again he's worked with Tom Cruz a couple times so there's some 1:39:39 that he did work with again but I think it sounds like Ed would have been happy to work with Brad again but just whatever whatever projects Ed's worked 1:39:45 on and see some of the films later that he's worked on I don't know where Bri would have fit in so it is what it is 1:39:51 isn't it nice to hear that even people of that caliber hav't imposter syndrome well said Katie and I yeah I 1:39:58 love it yeah Brad's like I didn't know what I was doing on that film and that's nice of him to say that he's he's this his way of apologizing and and that's 1:40:05 what I feel like when I go to work I always tell my wife like one of these days they're GNA find out I don't know what I'm doing anyways this was a big EP 1:40:12 we knew look there's so much there's just so much this is a big episode cinematography score the acting the 1:40:19 drama the sights The Sounds the story itself is incred every this movie fires 1:40:25 on all cylinders it's that movie well I have two little little p two characters 1:40:30 we didn't talk about briefly sure one did you clock who the mom was Isabelle 1:40:37 the white Isabelle one uh her name is Christina Pickles uhuh do you know who that is her voice gave it away okay tell 1:40:45 me what where did I miss her from where did I miss her from go ahead please she's Monica and Ross's mom are friends 1:40:53 that's she look familiar I was like too yes it about the same time right 94 it's 1:40:59 like funny that's great it's funny when she came on screen my brain was like where do I know her from I have seen the 1:41:06 series all 10 seasons three times so I've I've watched it all the way through 1:41:12 three times so but I don't even rewatch that I don't I don't think I've seen the episode in quite a few years after the 1:41:19 Third Watch I watch other things now but I love that show I think it's a fantastic fun it's it's been long enough 1:41:26 now that it's probably worth going through again okay thank you yeah she was she was great okay good for her can 1:41:31 you believe how old she is she's 89 right now no way really yeah she was born in 1:41:37 35 okay and then the the last character the bear was gorgeous and it's Bart the 1:41:45 bear I knew you know what's funny I knew it was Bart right away he's been so many different films and being a movie nerd that I am I knew it was Bart he's got 1:41:52 that mouth that always comes out in the screen he the mouth I just love him yeah lovely bear and you should say I didn't 1:41:58 know this till today was that Brad Pit at the end of the film fighting the 1:42:03 bear was it no it was his trainer the Bear's trainer yeah um because he lets 1:42:10 him throw him around a little bit because so originally they tried to do old person makeup for uh for him U Bara 1:42:16 bear did pass away in uh uh he in 2000 he was 23 years old uh he was diagnosed 1:42:23 with cancer Bart the bear did you say or I thought you said BD oh Bart Bart the 1:42:29 bear oh okay so he was he passed away 1:42:34 in he would have been born in 77 he died at the age of 23 oh that does track then 1:42:41 because he was in a lot of movies that I watched as a kid okay yeah he was in the bear the edge with Anthony Hopkins funny 1:42:47 enough um yeah so there you go Brad Pit said he went under he W makeup test to 1:42:54 play Tristan as an old man in the epilog but the results were unconvincing as they usually are with old person makeup 1:43:00 funny uh Gordon who played the one stab his old person makeup was was a little bit much but so be it so ultr is played 1:43:08 by Doug Seuss Bart the Bear's trainer the only man who could safely wrestle with the bear on camera anyways I love 1:43:14 that great that's great it is great that's why it's kind of fuzzy when he dies you can't quite make up the face 1:43:19 but it's kind of a cool shot that it's kind of dream like I can't quite make up is that Brad or not who is that yeah 1:43:25 it's the trainer dressed up and you notice what he was wearing by the way Tristan was wearing there as an older man in the 1960s the Colonel's bear uh 1:43:32 thear jacket coat okay that tracks I guess my final thoughts are the same as 1:43:40 one stabs he died a good death or he had a good death it was a good death yes 1:43:46 which is the SP alert spoil alert it's also a line used in The Last Samurai 1:43:52 directed by coming up so oh I like that but it totally called back to the first 1:43:57 scene when when he's a child and he just he wants to have a good death yeah and 1:44:03 he got it yeah he fought the bear yeah I love it I had an absolute Blast Of course Legends of fall amazing film uh 1:44:10 the next episode that we are doing will be courage Under Fire and I'm doing that 1:44:16 with Jared from the hyperspace 20,000 people podcasting space podcast so I'm 1:44:21 looking forward to doing that so J will be my guest on that one I'm looking forward to that and then after that film 1:44:28 of course we're doing Under Siege and I'm doing that with Scott from the uh drop in Bruce podcast so he wanted to 1:44:35 come on because of course that episode because it has Bruce Wills all right everyone thanks for watching and uh we 1:44:40 will see you in those next episodes 1:44:53 oh 1:45:02 [Music]