Latest / Best of Business / Kiri Hannifin: Air New Zealand Chief Sustainability Officer on the company's new strategy to meet net zero emissions by 2050

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Kiri Hannifin: Air New Zealand Chief Sustainability Officer on the company's new strategy to meet net zero emissions by 2050 · Best of Business

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks be follow
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  Speaker 2: Now.
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  Speaker 3: Air New Zealand has done away with climate targets, but
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  Speaker 3: has instead replaced it with its first emissions guidance. Now
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  Speaker 3: the airline wants to reduce net green house gas emissions
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  Speaker 3: from jet fuel by twenty to twenty five percent. And
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  Speaker 3: you'll remember last year Airline abandoned its carbon targets at
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  Speaker 3: the time, blaming it on a shortage of new aircraft
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  Speaker 3: availability and also the high price of sustainable jet fuels.
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  Speaker 3: Kitty Hanafin is Air New Zealand's chief Sustainability and corporate
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  Speaker 3: affairs officer and with us now, Hey Caddy, Hello, how
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  Speaker 3: are you well? Thank you? What's the difference between targets
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  Speaker 3: and guidance?
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  Speaker 2: So a target is a static goal, and what we're
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  Speaker 2: doing is because we couldn't achieve the target we set
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  Speaker 2: and had to put out of it last year, we
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  Speaker 2: wanted to have something back in the market that we
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  Speaker 2: could be very transparent and honest about how we're going.
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  Speaker 2: So what we're doing is saying what we expect to
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  Speaker 2: do by twenty thirty, but we'll update everybody every year
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  Speaker 2: to sort of give a realistic appraisal of how we're tracking,
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  Speaker 2: you know, given what's happening in the world, or you
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  Speaker 2: know in the markets, or how saf scaling up. So
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  Speaker 2: it's just a it's just a different, more transparent approach.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, And so how do you expect to do it?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, how much are you going to have to
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  Speaker 3: rely on sustainable fuel, which, as you guys have said,
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  Speaker 3: is so expensive a lot.
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  Speaker 2: It's it's the main way that airlines will decarbonize, I think,
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  Speaker 2: and it's probably quite timely from some of the discussions
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  Speaker 2: that have been heaven that are having been head at
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  Speaker 2: the moment around the world. We're going to have a
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  Speaker 2: bit you know, we're going to have some residual emissions
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  Speaker 2: left and we'll have to use carbon removals as well.
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  Speaker 2: We know that. But by by far the greatest lever
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  Speaker 2: that we have is the use of sustainable aviation fuel.
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  Speaker 3: Is it going to push up the air the price
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  Speaker 3: of the air tickets.
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  Speaker 2: It's a really good question at the moment. It's not
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  Speaker 2: because we're using such a small quantity, but it is
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  Speaker 2: expensive and we've got a really significant piece of work
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  Speaker 2: underway now to work out how we can bring the
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  Speaker 2: cost down, and there's a few ways we can do that.
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  Speaker 2: We can sort of enter long term off take agreements
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  Speaker 2: which are much more affordable. We can buy it from
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  Speaker 2: markets that are subsidized like the US, and we can
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  Speaker 2: and we can obviously help with supply. So why it's
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  Speaker 2: so expensive at the moment is because there's hardly any available.
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  Speaker 2: So the more demand there is, the more supply they
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  Speaker 2: will be available and that will help get the price down.
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  Speaker 3: So how much do you think, like, what does it
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  Speaker 3: add to the price of a ticket.
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  Speaker 2: At the moment? Nothing?
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  Speaker 3: And in the long term, once you're actually buying it
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  Speaker 3: and really.
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  Speaker 2: Fine on it, we don't know, like, you know, rough
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  Speaker 2: of the you know, we see the back of the envelope.
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  Speaker 2: You know, maybe a few dollars for you know, for
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  Speaker 2: a ticket domestically, but that's not how we do it.
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  Speaker 2: Would probably look to sort of to make it fair.
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  Speaker 2: So obviously international travels much more a mission heavy than
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  Speaker 2: domestic travel. We want to look after the price of
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  Speaker 2: traveling in New Zealand. We're going to try and sell
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  Speaker 2: a lot of the scope three parts of the saf
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  Speaker 2: to third parties to businesses who want to reduce their
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  Speaker 2: own emissions. So big organizations like micros often Apple are
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  Speaker 2: buying parts of airlines safe to reduce their own emissions.
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  Speaker 2: So that's what we want to do, to see if
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  Speaker 2: we can commercialize it to take the burden off our
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  Speaker 2: own flyers.
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  Speaker 3: Now I want your take on something. I have been
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  Speaker 3: watching what's going on with the Paris Agreement right and
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  Speaker 3: I just want to Chloe Swarwrick about it about just
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  Speaker 3: over half an hour ago, and she could tell me
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  Speaker 3: that she believed the Paris Agreements will hold. Do you
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  Speaker 3: think it will hold?
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  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that's such a good question. Look, it's not
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  Speaker 2: a question I can't really answer. It's an agreement that
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  Speaker 2: government's entered and I guess centered on the back of
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  Speaker 2: what they thought was, you know, excellent advice from hundreds
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  Speaker 2: of scientists. You know. I guess it's the world's global
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  Speaker 2: climate framework and that's really important. There was near agreement
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  Speaker 2: to join it from governments and there's actually some really
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  Speaker 2: good progress being made with technology. And ironically, I guess
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  Speaker 2: you're referring to what Tony blairsbeen saying. The UK have
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  Speaker 2: been doing probably one of the best out of all
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  Speaker 2: the countries in the world. I think it's really important
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  Speaker 2: that governments and businesses like ours commit to decarbonizing. And
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  Speaker 2: our own twenty to fifty goal is not part of
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  Speaker 2: the Paris Agreement obviously because we're not a government, but
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  Speaker 2: we do have our own twenty fifty net net zero
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  Speaker 2: emissions goal, and we know we're very determined and committed
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  Speaker 2: to getting there.
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  Speaker 3: So tell me what I mean, because you must have
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  Speaker 3: thought about this, or because I know you care about
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  Speaker 3: this deepening a lot. What happens, Kitty? What happens the
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  Speaker 3: US pulls out right, they've already done it, And then
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  Speaker 3: what happens if the UK abandons it? And bit by bit,
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  Speaker 3: all these larger countries start to fall out of the
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  Speaker 3: Paris Agreement or realize it's completely it's overly ambitious, they
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  Speaker 3: can't meet the targets. Smaller countries like ours realize we
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  Speaker 3: are also then going to be left doing way more
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  Speaker 3: than our fair share, so we abandon it. Where does
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  Speaker 3: it leave? Are you still there?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah? I'm here?
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  Speaker 3: Oh sorry, we just had a little beep there and
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  Speaker 3: I thought she's bailed out before answering this hard question?
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  Speaker 3: But where does it go?
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  Speaker 2: Off?
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  Speaker 1: It through hard?
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  Speaker 3: Where does it leave an airline. Right, if all these
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  Speaker 3: countries have bailed out, where doesn't he leave an airline
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  Speaker 3: sitting there pushing up its own prices, trying to do
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  Speaker 3: the right thing, but abandoned by all the countries.
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  Speaker 2: It's a really good question, and I guess, you know,
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  Speaker 2: the most positive thing I can say is that a
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  Speaker 2: New Zealand is not alone in our ambition, Like we
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  Speaker 2: are part of every global airline wanting to do this work.
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  Speaker 2: So this is a global action from aviation. It's not
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  Speaker 2: just a New New Zealand out on a limb, but generally,
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  Speaker 2: like pulling away from climate action a country by country
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  Speaker 2: would be a death by a thousand cuts. And I
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  Speaker 2: and that would be regrettable for everybody, not just aviation,
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  Speaker 2: but for all industry. And I guess it will come
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  Speaker 2: down to decisions between the cost of action versus the
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  Speaker 2: cost of inaction, because what I can tell you is
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  Speaker 2: that doing nothing and having to navigate adaptation or response
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  Speaker 2: to climate damage will be incredibly costly as well. So
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  Speaker 2: I think you know, and we are trying to be
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  Speaker 2: more realistic. You know, we couldn't do what we committed
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  Speaker 2: to last year, and so this is us trying to
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  Speaker 2: be much more honest and pragmatic and realistic about what
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  Speaker 2: we can do. But it's still ambitious, and it's still
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  Speaker 2: going to stretch us, and we're going to do everything
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  Speaker 2: we can to push ourselves harder. But I think because
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  Speaker 2: I think yes, of course, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I think you guys are are part of the problem
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  Speaker 3: in the sense, like from your perspective, right, So you
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  Speaker 3: are just doing, as a corporate what all these countries
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  Speaker 3: are going to do. Look at the ambition, realize it's impossible,
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  Speaker 3: and pull back, and therefore the climate just keeps getting hotter.
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  Speaker 2: Well, we're still we are going to rid our emissions
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  Speaker 2: by twenty thirty. So we are taking absolute or gross
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  Speaker 2: emissions out of our business, and that's what we have
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  Speaker 2: to do. We are take you know, we are using
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  Speaker 2: less stiel, We're going to be burning less carbon, and
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  Speaker 2: we're you know, we are tracking the right way, and
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  Speaker 2: that's what we all have to do. So it's possible
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  Speaker 2: we couldn't. We couldn't, you know, because of things are
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  Speaker 2: outside of our control. Don't mean to make excuses like
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  Speaker 2: around fleet or saff We couldn't get to the level
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  Speaker 2: that we thought we might be able to. But we're
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  Speaker 2: still we're still going really hard, and we're still going
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  Speaker 2: to make a difference, and you know it all, every
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  Speaker 2: dicmal point of carbon savings makes a difference, and I
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  Speaker 2: think that's worth fighting for.
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  Speaker 3: Hey, Kitty, thank you. I really appreciate having chat to
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  Speaker 3: you about its. Kitty Hanafan, chief sustainability and corporate affairs
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  Speaker 3: officer at in New Zealand, Heather, The PONSI scheme of
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  Speaker 3: carbon is over, do you know what. The more that
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  Speaker 3: I watch what's happening right now, the more I talk
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  Speaker 3: to people like Kitty Hanafan, Chloe Swarbrick, people who actually
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  Speaker 3: deeply committed to trying to save the planet, the more
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  Speaker 3: convinced I am this thing is over. The Paris Agreement
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  Speaker 3: is going to fall over. And the closer we get
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  Speaker 3: to twenty thirty, that's our first target we have to meet.
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  Speaker 3: The closer we get to that that we will start
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  Speaker 3: to realize at that point. The closer we get, the
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  Speaker 3: more we will realize that we cannot meet these targets
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  Speaker 3: and we're going to fall away from them. I'm happy
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  Speaker 3: to make that prediction now, and I'm sure that there
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  Speaker 3: will just be mounting evidence as we get closer to it.
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