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30 - Burke & Hare - Bodysnatchers · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, and welcome back to Herded What now the
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Speaker 1: history of podcast? That is not your history class with me?
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Speaker 1: Your unwell host Katie Charlwood, mother and reader of books.
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Speaker 1: Yah you disclaimer even though I'm going to be covering some.
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Speaker 3: The next one it's a song?
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Speaker 1: Is the next one going to be a song?
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Speaker 3: Only?
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Speaker 1: Need? Okay?
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Speaker 3: So you can't you can't still the pipe? Play high? Hi? Hi?
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Speaker 1: Anyway, you may notice I have a guest host with
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Speaker 1: me today. What's your name?
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Speaker 3: Alca?
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Speaker 1: That is my human that I made. I am a
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Speaker 1: co creator of this fresh human and as such, even
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Speaker 1: though the topic being discussed today is going to be dark.
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Speaker 1: So even though the topic is going to be quite
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Speaker 1: dark in nature, uh, there may not be any swearing
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Speaker 1: depending on whether or not she has left the room
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Speaker 1: or not, because seeing as I am unwell, little miss
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Speaker 1: Micah has decided to take it upon herself to make
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Speaker 1: sure that I'm okay, which is super fun. Yeah, I'm
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Speaker 1: your h Thank you for saying that in an unsure way.
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Speaker 1: That really makes me feel confident. Baby, don't you worry
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Speaker 1: about I have been off work now for four days
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Speaker 1: to more's my last day and then I'm back in.
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Speaker 1: I am hopped up on it.
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Speaker 3: Oh well, yeah, backing.
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Speaker 1: So yeah, we're a little bit different today because I
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Speaker 1: have a co host. Yeah. So I've been off and
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Speaker 1: I haven't been able to record. My throat had swollen
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Speaker 1: on one side to be double, and I felt like
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Speaker 1: I was simultaneously choking and drowning, which zero out of
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Speaker 1: ten would not recommend. I'm hopped up on antibiotics and ibuprofen,
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Speaker 1: but I can actually speak today, So I'm going to
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Speaker 1: try and get through this as quickly as possible. What
2:49
Speaker 1: month is it? What month is it? Can it's it
2:55
Speaker 1: is autumn, that's the season. What month is it?
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Speaker 3: Oh, cal It's October, so which means it's almost Halloween.
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Speaker 1: It is almost Halloween. And we are continuing with our
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Speaker 1: spooky tales, aren't we.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we we buyed Sancho.
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Speaker 1: The Pookahs, the Pukat. So the Pooka is an Irish ghost,
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Speaker 1: isn't it? Yeah?
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Speaker 3: Any of the Thank you Sian.
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Speaker 1: So are you thinking that Frankenstein is the Hulk? No,
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Speaker 1: he's not mass He just also smashes. Okay, so I
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Speaker 1: know what you're thinking. Quit your gibber jubber in fact me,
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Speaker 1: In fact you I will, But first we have to
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Speaker 1: get our source on. We have The Anatomy Murders, being
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Speaker 1: the true and spectacular history of Edinburgh's notorious Birken Hair
3:49
Speaker 1: and of the man of science who have betted them
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Speaker 1: in the commission of their most heinous crimes, by Lisa Rosner.
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Speaker 1: Burken Hair by Owen Dudley Edwards. The Mimus burk and
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Speaker 1: Hair serial killers and resurrectionists of nineteenth century Edinburgh by R.
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Speaker 1: Michael Gordon, and of course we have our favorites History
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Speaker 1: dot com, Smithsonian dot com and biography dot com. So,
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Speaker 1: as I'm sure you have guessed by the title of
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Speaker 1: this episode, and of course meet me listing the books
4:23
Speaker 1: that we are talking about Burke and Hare, who for
4:27
Speaker 1: some reason are consistently known as body snatchels or resurrectionists,
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Speaker 1: but they didn't actually snatch anybodies. So let's start. You
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Speaker 1: know what we'll start. We'll start with We'll start with
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Speaker 1: our main men. My way, we have three main characters
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Speaker 1: to this story. We got William Burke, William Hare and
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Speaker 1: doctor Robert Knox. So so we've got Billy, Billy and Bob.
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Speaker 3: What doctor work?
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Speaker 1: Dr Robert Knox, doctor Wugs, doctor Dr Yeah, thank you
5:01
Speaker 1: for the eliminating commentary, Doctor Ruggs.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Do you feel better now? Yeah? Okay. So the funny
5:10
Speaker 1: thing about Burke and Here, although their story mainly lies
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Speaker 1: in Edinburgh, is they're both from Ireland, but they came
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Speaker 1: from two different backgrounds. William Burke was born in seventeen
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Speaker 1: ninety two in Erne County Tyrone, and he was the
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Speaker 1: second son we get. Here's the thing we can make
5:28
Speaker 1: an assumption the fact that he was called William and
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Speaker 1: his brother was called Constantine, that the Burks were quite
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Speaker 1: middle class. So Burke is middle class. So when they're teenagers,
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Speaker 1: both he and his brother joined the British Army. Burke
5:45
Speaker 1: serves in the Donegal Militia and he stays there until
5:48
Speaker 1: he marries some women from County Mayo, where they end
5:51
Speaker 1: up moving to. So Bark has a family. There were
5:55
Speaker 1: no unicorns, unfortunately. I mean to my knowledge, baby, as
6:01
Speaker 1: far as I know, there's no unicorns currently. You think
6:05
Speaker 1: there's unicorns in Mayo.
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Speaker 3: And mine going from the family family.
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Speaker 1: There's one unicorn for the Burke family in Mayo. Yeah, okay,
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Speaker 1: I'm going to trust your judgment on that one. Basically,
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Speaker 1: he has a wife and kids and he ends up
6:19
Speaker 1: in this argument with his father in law something to
6:21
Speaker 1: do with landownership. I think that Burke was expecting to
6:24
Speaker 1: just claim it because he married into the family, and
6:28
Speaker 1: you know, the father in law was like, no, not
6:31
Speaker 1: doing that. So he does the rational and not at
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Speaker 1: all misogynist thing of maybe can you cover your ears
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Speaker 1: for a second careers? Okay, he says fuck this for
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Speaker 1: a gay mis soldiers and gets the nope out of
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Speaker 1: there and head to Scotland. You can take him off now,
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Speaker 1: good job. So so basically he ends up near Falkirk,
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Speaker 1: meets a lass called Helen MacDougall, whom he calls Nelly,
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Speaker 1: and she becomes his second wife. Now I think you
7:00
Speaker 1: just abandoned his first family. I'm not sure divorce was
7:02
Speaker 1: involved at all. Anyway, becomes a laborer, works on the
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Speaker 1: Union Canal and possibly becomes a biginist. They end up
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Speaker 1: moving to Tanner's Clothes in Edinburgh in November eighteen twenty seven,
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Speaker 1: and they basically become street hawkers. They are selling like
7:20
Speaker 1: secondhand clothes and stuff to the you know, people who
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Speaker 1: can't afford new shit like a ye old thrift store.
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Speaker 1: Bark then decides to level up a wee bit becomes
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Speaker 1: a cobbler, you know, because it's a cobbler, because it's
7:33
Speaker 1: always good to have a trade, earning upwards of one
7:37
Speaker 1: pound a week. So you know, he was seen as
7:40
Speaker 1: a good guy. Carried around awey bible. He was at
7:42
Speaker 1: the Presbyterian meetings, and why wouldn't you trust a big
7:46
Speaker 1: a mist with a bible? You know what I mean? Anyhow,
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Speaker 1: Person number two William William Hare. William Hare was a
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Speaker 1: different story, so Williamare didn't have the same comfortable upbringing.
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Speaker 1: Has Borke did the thing about if you're a poor
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Speaker 1: person or a woman from the past, do we have
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Speaker 1: any dates aboit you? Probably not. So where was William hereborn?
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Speaker 1: How old is he? Still not sure? So he was
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Speaker 1: born somewhere between Armagh, Derry or Newiy. What we do
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Speaker 1: now is his birthday is somewhere between seventeen ninety two
8:24
Speaker 1: and eighteen oh four. The theory is that he worked
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Speaker 1: in Ireland as a laborer and then traveled to Britain,
8:30
Speaker 1: so like he worked on the Union Canal for years,
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Speaker 1: and then he moved to Edinburgh where he worked as
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Speaker 1: a comman's assistant. And then so he becomes a lodger
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Speaker 1: in Tanner's Close in Edinburgh. So he's staying with Log
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Speaker 1: and his wife Margaret. So then Log dies in like
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Speaker 1: eighteen twenty six. So when Log dies here stays with Margaret.
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Speaker 1: We're not entirely sure if he married the widow or
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Speaker 1: if they were just like common law man and wife. Basically,
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Speaker 1: at some point in eighteen twenty seven, William Burke and
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Speaker 1: Nelly go to Midlothian to work in a harvest. They
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Speaker 1: meet here, the men's become friends. They all move back
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Speaker 1: to Tanner's Close where basically they become this fun little foursome.
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Speaker 1: They get this reputation for being like, you know, the
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Speaker 1: drunken irish and being loud and all that, you know,
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Speaker 1: rowdy stuff. The next person on our list doctor Robert Knox.
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Speaker 1: Robert Knox was an anatomist and he is a fellow
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Speaker 1: at the Royal College of Surgeons in Edinburgh. So basically,
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Speaker 1: in eighteen fourteen he had qualified as a doctor. He
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Speaker 1: was an army physician at the Battle of Waterloo and
9:43
Speaker 1: then the Cape Frontier War in Southern Africa. Eventually he
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Speaker 1: comes back and he settles in Edinburgh in eighteen twenty.
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Speaker 1: A couple of years after that he becomes a fellow
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Speaker 1: at the World College of Surgeons of Edinburgh. And Knox
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Speaker 1: is like one of the biggest anatomists in Britain at
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Speaker 1: that point. His work as a teacher and a lecturer
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Speaker 1: that basically our knowledge of anatomy would not be as
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Speaker 1: advanced as it was if it weren't for this man.
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Speaker 1: And oh you know what, it's going to add this
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Speaker 1: in as well, he had smallpox as a kid, so
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Speaker 1: he was blind in one eye, had some kind of
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Speaker 1: disfigurement as well. So let's get back into the story.
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Speaker 1: Burke and Hare are living on the same street. They're
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Speaker 1: both in Tanner's Close in Edinburgh, Scotland, just to confirm.
10:28
Speaker 1: So Hair at this point is running the lodging house.
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Speaker 1: One of his tenants dies in December eighteen twenty seven
10:35
Speaker 1: of natural causes. Nothing to be alarmed about Old Donald.
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Speaker 1: He kicks the bucket. He hadn't gone to pick up
10:41
Speaker 1: his pension before he did that because he had an
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Speaker 1: army pension. So when he died, he still owed four
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Speaker 1: pounds in rent. So basically here is like, I need
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Speaker 1: this money, and he tells his pill bark about it.
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Speaker 1: They decide that they're going to sell the body. The
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Speaker 1: college assurgents effectively, so because old Donald was an elderly
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Speaker 1: army pensioner, a local parish gets a carpenter to provide
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Speaker 1: a coffin, you know, so that they can organize a burial.
11:05
Speaker 1: So burc and here they put their heads together and
11:08
Speaker 1: they go, all right, let's be smart about this. Instead
11:11
Speaker 1: of putting old Donald into the coffin, they pull the
11:14
Speaker 1: old switch root and fill it with tanning bark. So
11:18
Speaker 1: they bury an empty casket full of wood and and
11:21
Speaker 1: hod it and dot it. They take Old Donald's body
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Speaker 1: off to the medical school in Edinburgh where they were.
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Speaker 1: Basically they're pointed to Robert Knox, Professor Robert Knox, Dr.
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Speaker 1: Robert Knox, Bobby Knox and his socks. That was silly.
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Speaker 1: Knox pays the gruesome to some seven pounds and ten
11:41
Speaker 1: shillings for Donald's body for the use of study of anatomy.
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Speaker 1: That means that Burke and Hare have made a profit
11:49
Speaker 1: of three pounds and ten shillings. And at this point
11:53
Speaker 1: you're thinking, ah, you know, that's not so bad. Actually,
11:55
Speaker 1: you can kind it. You know things were tough, you
11:57
Speaker 1: can you can understand why they did what they did.
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Speaker 1: This is the last point the two of them were
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Speaker 1: being reasonable. So you're probably wondering why Knox was paying
12:06
Speaker 1: this money for these cadavers. All right, So the judgment
12:10
Speaker 1: of death actors passed in eighteen twenty three, and this
12:13
Speaker 1: basically means that the death penalty, you know, the reason
12:17
Speaker 1: the crimes that would get the death penalty, it just
12:19
Speaker 1: massively drops and you're thinking, this is great, and it
12:23
Speaker 1: is in general, it's not great for medical skills and
12:26
Speaker 1: stuff because they need bodies, you know, to dissect and
12:32
Speaker 1: do stuff with. But the demand was definitely outweighing the
12:37
Speaker 1: supply because all of these medical and anatomical skills were
12:42
Speaker 1: only legally allowed to dissect the cadavers of undesirables, so
12:49
Speaker 1: like foundlings, orphans, criminals, so on and so forth. What
12:54
Speaker 1: you left them with, you know, a pretty big shortage
12:57
Speaker 1: of dead bodies to cup. So, because you know, they
13:01
Speaker 1: didn't have such free access to bodies, medical schools would
13:05
Speaker 1: offer financial compensation, you know, to anyone that provided a kidaver.
13:11
Speaker 1: And because there's always someone trying to make money in
13:14
Speaker 1: the easiest possible way, grave robbing becomes this massive, massive deal.
13:21
Speaker 1: So because people were stealing bodies, they were digging up
13:24
Speaker 1: corpses to give to the medical to medical research so
13:28
Speaker 1: that they could get money. And you know, it was
13:31
Speaker 1: pretty good money in fairness that they were offering. So
13:35
Speaker 1: the grave robbers were actually known as resurrectionists, which is,
13:39
Speaker 1: let's face it, a pretty cool fucking name. The kid
13:41
Speaker 1: is out there room, by the way, the kid has gone.
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Speaker 1: She left. That's why I can swear again, so grave
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Speaker 1: robbing becomes so common that like freshly buried corpses would
13:52
Speaker 1: have someone watching guard over them. Sometimes it would be
13:55
Speaker 1: like a relative watching over the grave, because the fresh
13:57
Speaker 1: of the body, the more money you would get. So yeah,
14:01
Speaker 1: sometimes it would be like a relative or someone would
14:03
Speaker 1: paid to watch over the grave, or they would install
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Speaker 1: a mort safe, which is like this cage that goes
14:10
Speaker 1: over the grave to stop somebody from like digging under it.
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Speaker 1: So people like Robert Knox would pay damn find money
14:18
Speaker 1: and ask no questions because as far as they were concerned,
14:22
Speaker 1: it was for the advancement of medical science. So yeah.
14:26
Speaker 1: In January eighteen twenty eight, Hare has a tenant who's sick, Joseph,
14:32
Speaker 1: who was a miller. The thing is with Joseph, there's
14:34
Speaker 1: two sides to this. The first is that he was
14:38
Speaker 1: pretty sick. He had of fever and he was delirious
14:40
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and Hair was worried that he
14:43
Speaker 1: was going to spread the illness to his other tenants
14:45
Speaker 1: or scare other lodgers away because he was ill, Like
14:49
Speaker 1: people wouldn't want to want it to stay in his
14:50
Speaker 1: house if it was a sick fella in it. The
14:52
Speaker 1: other idea is that they knew Joseph was sick and
14:56
Speaker 1: they were waiting for him to die. Unfortunately, they felt
14:59
Speaker 1: he was take get a wee bit too long, and
15:02
Speaker 1: Birk and here decided to help him long. And they
15:06
Speaker 1: did this in a remarkably practical way. They got him
15:10
Speaker 1: drunk on cheap whiskey, Burke sat on his chest to
15:15
Speaker 1: pin him down, and Hair smothered him with a pillow. Now,
15:20
Speaker 1: between the two men, this is actually like a really
15:23
Speaker 1: smart way because without you know, modern forensics, this is
15:27
Speaker 1: a pretty good way and undetectable way to you know,
15:30
Speaker 1: dispose of a human and bonus points because the body
15:34
Speaker 1: didn't have any weird marks and it was relatively undamaged,
15:37
Speaker 1: so it was perfect for you know, the medical students
15:41
Speaker 1: who were going to be like dissecting the cadavers and stuff,
15:44
Speaker 1: and this would become their preferred method of execution. So they,
15:48
Speaker 1: you know, they strip the body, take all the good stuff,
15:51
Speaker 1: hawk what they can, and then bring the corpse to Knox,
15:56
Speaker 1: who again past them ten pounds. Well, then abs of
16:00
Speaker 1: you know, dying are almost dead people. Burke and Hare
16:05
Speaker 1: decide to start luring people in the second victim was
16:09
Speaker 1: Abigail Simpson. She was a pensioner who had a side hustle,
16:13
Speaker 1: stell and salt, a salt hustle, if you will. And
16:17
Speaker 1: this is like in February, the twelfth of February, which
16:19
Speaker 1: is like the only official date we have regarding murders.
16:24
Speaker 1: So they just get her absolutely plastered. They make sure
16:29
Speaker 1: that she is too drunk to go home and that
16:31
Speaker 1: she has to stay there, and they do the same
16:33
Speaker 1: thing that they did with Joseph Burke, sat in their chest.
16:36
Speaker 1: Will Hair smothered her with a pillow, put her body
16:39
Speaker 1: in a tea chest and sold it to NOx, who
16:44
Speaker 1: made a comment about the body being quite fresh, and
16:47
Speaker 1: he was really happy about it, which is why he
16:48
Speaker 1: paid ten pounds, but didn't ask any questions, because why
16:53
Speaker 1: would he. The next person they got was an English
16:56
Speaker 1: male lodger, because they were like, as she is English,
16:59
Speaker 1: she doesn't matter because they're irishmen living in Scotland. That's
17:04
Speaker 1: just how it's gonna go now. So the unnamed English
17:07
Speaker 1: lodger was a traveling seller of matches and tender who
17:12
Speaker 1: apparently apparently had jaundice. And you know, Hair and Margaret
17:18
Speaker 1: were like and now this illness might have a way
17:22
Speaker 1: effect on business. Now we better just so, they did
17:25
Speaker 1: the same thing that we did with Joseph, filled them
17:27
Speaker 1: full of booze, smothered them. Yeah. The manner in which
17:31
Speaker 1: they killed with Burke, like pressing down and restraining the
17:34
Speaker 1: victim and hair smothering them with a pillow or with
17:38
Speaker 1: his hand over the mouth a bit smothering, nonetheless, became
17:42
Speaker 1: known as burking. Like This particular method was ended up
17:47
Speaker 1: being known as burking in popular culture. Just as a
17:50
Speaker 1: side note. Anyhow, So, now Margaret Hare's wife is in
17:55
Speaker 1: on it, and she invites an old woman over, you know,
17:58
Speaker 1: starts plownery, gets her nice and knocked out. So when
18:02
Speaker 1: as she's lying down on the floor, here comes home
18:06
Speaker 1: chucks this like mattress cover thing on it, like it's
18:09
Speaker 1: called a bedtick. The weight of the whole thing pins
18:11
Speaker 1: her down and smothers her, and she's dead by nightfall.
18:15
Speaker 1: His buddy Burke comes over. They do the thing, They
18:19
Speaker 1: grab the body, transport it over to knocks and bushbash bosh.
18:24
Speaker 1: Another tenor Mary Patterson, also known as Mary Mitchell and
18:28
Speaker 1: jan and Brown, where may or may not have been
18:31
Speaker 1: sex workers. It's we're not entirely sure, you know. But
18:35
Speaker 1: they go drinking with Bark and he invites them back
18:39
Speaker 1: to his lodging for breakfast, and off they go. So
18:43
Speaker 1: Mary falls asleep at the table and Burke and Janet
18:49
Speaker 1: are still drinking, still drinking and chatting, you know, shitting
18:52
Speaker 1: the shit, and in comes Nelly, who's like, what the
18:55
Speaker 1: actual fuck? Who is this bitch? What are you doing?
18:59
Speaker 1: He is married? Get the fuck away from him. She
19:02
Speaker 1: accuses Burke of having an affair and they have this
19:05
Speaker 1: massive fight. Burke throws a fucking glass at her face,
19:09
Speaker 1: cutting her in the eye. Janet's like, okay, no, I'm
19:12
Speaker 1: not into this, so she's like, hmm, I kind of
19:16
Speaker 1: go like now, didn't know he was married. Sorry about
19:19
Speaker 1: this girl, code bye, and off she trots. Now, so
19:24
Speaker 1: Nelly is also pissed, and she goes and gets the hairs.
19:27
Speaker 1: The trio returned to Burke, at which point the two
19:31
Speaker 1: wives are locked out of a room and Burke and
19:34
Speaker 1: Hare kill Mary. She is also chucked on a tea chest,
19:38
Speaker 1: so they head to the school. The body's still warm,
19:41
Speaker 1: and they're paid eight pound by one of Knok's assistants, Ferguson,
19:46
Speaker 1: who's like, where did you get this body because she
19:49
Speaker 1: seems really familiar to me. And the reason we think
19:52
Speaker 1: she's familiar is because she's supposed to be a very
19:55
Speaker 1: popular lady of the night. However, we don't have any
19:59
Speaker 1: factual evere one way or the other. It's more heresy
20:01
Speaker 1: about it. But anyway, Burk's like, nan, no, no, we
20:04
Speaker 1: bought her off an old lady because this chick just
20:07
Speaker 1: you know, drunk herself to death, you know women. And
20:10
Speaker 1: Ferguson's like cool. So when Knox sees her body, He's like,
20:14
Speaker 1: absolutely fantastic, one hundred percent. This is a great corpse.
20:18
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna keep it, so he actually does.
20:22
Speaker 1: He preserves it in whiskey for three months before it
20:24
Speaker 1: actually gets dissected. Janet Brown, the friend. She heads back
20:28
Speaker 1: to Burke's after Mary doesn't return home and they tell
20:32
Speaker 1: her they said she'd burgered off to Glasgow with a
20:34
Speaker 1: traveling salesman. Okay. The next person on the chopping block
20:39
Speaker 1: was missus Huldane, another one of Hare's lodgers. She gets
20:43
Speaker 1: absolutely sloshed, so much so that she doesn't even make
20:46
Speaker 1: it inside the lodging house. She actually fogs asleep in
20:50
Speaker 1: the stable and They're like, well, this is convenient. They
20:53
Speaker 1: smother her and sell her to Knox. A few months later,
20:57
Speaker 1: her daughter Peggy, ends up lodging with Hair because she's
21:01
Speaker 1: looking for her mum. She's trying to figure it where
21:03
Speaker 1: she is, so she ends up getting absolutely shit faced
21:06
Speaker 1: with Bark, at which point he just kills her without
21:10
Speaker 1: any assistance from his buddy, his buddy Billy Hare, because
21:13
Speaker 1: you know, Hare didn't assist in the process. He also
21:17
Speaker 1: wouldn't be receiving the financial compensation. Yeah, So he kills her,
21:21
Speaker 1: puts her in the tea chest, takes her to Knox.
21:24
Speaker 1: He gets paid eight pounds. Next victim, another lodging old lady,
21:29
Speaker 1: and again same m O, gets drunk, passes out. Burke
21:34
Speaker 1: kills her on his own. He brings her body to Knox,
21:37
Speaker 1: gets ten pounds. The next person was Effie, a cinder gatherer. Basically,
21:44
Speaker 1: she would like scavenge through bins and garbage to like
21:48
Speaker 1: find like scraps to sell like. Burke actually knew her personally.
21:54
Speaker 1: She used to sell him leather scraps because he was
21:56
Speaker 1: a cobbler. So Burke lures her into the stable with whiskey,
22:00
Speaker 1: gets her drunk, and then he and her burk her effectively. Again,
22:06
Speaker 1: She's put over to Knox. They get ten pounds. The
22:10
Speaker 1: next victim is just so fucking unlucky. So a police
22:14
Speaker 1: constable is helping this absolutely wasted woman, you know, get
22:19
Speaker 1: back to her lodgings. Sabilly Burke tells the bobby, Ah,
22:22
Speaker 1: don't you worry, I'll get her home. Don't you worry
22:24
Speaker 1: about it, And he's like fantastic. So instead of taking
22:28
Speaker 1: her home. Three guesses as to what happened next. Did
22:31
Speaker 1: he A just leave her somewhere, b help her home
22:36
Speaker 1: or c take her back to here's house where they
22:39
Speaker 1: murder her. Do do do? Do? Do do? Congratulations, you
22:44
Speaker 1: are correct that was indeed option C. She was murdered anyway,
22:50
Speaker 1: They bring her cadaver over to Knox get another tenor
22:53
Speaker 1: The next two murderers wear again lodgers. An old woman
22:57
Speaker 1: and her mute grandson dead was They brought their grandmother
23:02
Speaker 1: into the bedroom and barked her sitting on her chest,
23:06
Speaker 1: smothering her, killed her the usual way. Well, the boy
23:09
Speaker 1: was just sitting by the fire in the kitchen, so
23:11
Speaker 1: after they killed her, they pick him up, carry him
23:14
Speaker 1: into the bedroom and kill him too. Unfortunately, the tea
23:18
Speaker 1: chest that they usually used to transport bodies was too
23:21
Speaker 1: small for the two of them, so they put them
23:23
Speaker 1: in a herring barrel. Basically, they loaded the barrel up
23:27
Speaker 1: into a cart, but Hair's horse wouldn't go any further
23:29
Speaker 1: than a certain point, so Bark had to pay this
23:32
Speaker 1: other Veella to help him, you know, transport the barrel
23:35
Speaker 1: the rest of the way. They get eight pound each
23:37
Speaker 1: for the bodies, and when they get back, Burke is
23:40
Speaker 1: so mad that the horse wouldn't go past a certain
23:43
Speaker 1: point that he shoots it in the yard. In June,
23:48
Speaker 1: Bark and Nelly, Bark and Nelly, they go away to
23:51
Speaker 1: see Nelly's dad. Hair is struggling at this point. He
23:54
Speaker 1: has very little money and he's selling his clothes. He's
23:58
Speaker 1: not got too shell and s rub together effectively. So
24:01
Speaker 1: while they're away, Hale kills women by himself and sells
24:04
Speaker 1: the body to Knox for eight pounds, but doesn't tell Burke.
24:07
Speaker 1: But when Burke comes back and he says that here
24:10
Speaker 1: has money and new clothes, he gets mad, and and
24:15
Speaker 1: so they have like this little tiff, and their bromance
24:19
Speaker 1: is on a break. But you know, it doesn't last.
24:21
Speaker 1: For too long, don't you worry about it? They make
24:23
Speaker 1: up and they with all good relationships here with murder.
24:27
Speaker 1: So Hair is visiting Burke when the washerwoman, Missus Ostler,
24:31
Speaker 1: comes to do all the lawn right as a washerwoman does.
24:34
Speaker 1: The men, as per fucking usual, get her drunk and
24:38
Speaker 1: then kill her. By the afternoon, Knox has the corpse
24:42
Speaker 1: and the men receive another eight quid. A few weeks later,
24:45
Speaker 1: one of Nelly's relatives and comes to visit, and because
24:50
Speaker 1: you know, not all families are happy ones, they decide,
24:53
Speaker 1: fuck it, we'll just kill her too, and they do,
24:56
Speaker 1: and they get a tenor for her. Now, the next
25:00
Speaker 1: victim is really the start of their downfall. James Wilson
25:03
Speaker 1: was mentally and physically disabled. He was eighteen years old
25:07
Speaker 1: and known as daff Jimmy. But you know, he was
25:10
Speaker 1: generally well known and well liked, you know. So it's
25:12
Speaker 1: November and William here, he he, there's James in because
25:15
Speaker 1: he's gonna he's gonna, you know, look after him. He's
25:17
Speaker 1: gonna give him some whiskey. It's gonna be a good time.
25:19
Speaker 1: So burking Hair. They try and do their normal thing,
25:22
Speaker 1: but unlike most of their victims. James he didn't really
25:26
Speaker 1: like whiskey, so he wasn't drunk. He wasn't like as
25:29
Speaker 1: intoxicated as most of the other victims. And he was
25:34
Speaker 1: although he was, you know, disabled, he was incredibly strong.
25:38
Speaker 1: He fought back, which is something they weren't used to.
25:41
Speaker 1: But by burking him, by compressing his chest, and the
25:44
Speaker 1: two of them working together, they managed to end his life.
25:48
Speaker 1: Then then he was stripped, his stuff was stolen, and
25:52
Speaker 1: he was then passed on to Knox. I don't know
25:54
Speaker 1: how much for actually this time. So the next day
25:57
Speaker 1: James's body is being like just looked over by Knox
26:01
Speaker 1: and his students and they're like, is there no daph jimmy,
26:05
Speaker 1: almost a daft jimmy to would then a little dap
26:07
Speaker 1: jimmy to you. Ay, it doesn't look daf jimmy. Now
26:09
Speaker 1: you can mention it. And Knox is like, no, no, no,
26:12
Speaker 1: it's nobody, you know, clearly not that person who has
26:17
Speaker 1: you know, deformed feet and a highly recognizable face because
26:21
Speaker 1: you walk past it every day, not a little bit.
26:25
Speaker 1: So when word starts getting around that James Wilson is missing,
26:30
Speaker 1: Knox ends up dissecting the body sooner rather than later,
26:34
Speaker 1: because like he actually pulls it to the front of
26:36
Speaker 1: the queue instead of all the other ones that are
26:38
Speaker 1: in storage, so he like cuts off the head, the hands,
26:42
Speaker 1: and the feet before the main dissection happens. The very
26:46
Speaker 1: last victim, Margaret Doherty, was killed on October thirty first,
26:51
Speaker 1: eighteen twenty eight, that's right, Halloween, with the name of
26:54
Speaker 1: Margaret Doherty. Surprisingly enough, she was Irish and she gets
26:59
Speaker 1: lured there by by Burke because he's like, my mom's
27:02
Speaker 1: from the same place as you in Ireland. What a
27:04
Speaker 1: crazy random happenstance. So Nellie and Margaret they're sitting there drinking.
27:10
Speaker 1: Burke says, oh, I've got to go get somewhere whiskey,
27:12
Speaker 1: when in fact he's off to get his partner in
27:14
Speaker 1: crime here. So, because you know, they wanted to do
27:17
Speaker 1: the deed, and by do the date, I mean kill
27:20
Speaker 1: and not sex, Burke had to other lodgers there at
27:23
Speaker 1: the time, and in James Gray, so they can actually
27:26
Speaker 1: paid them to bugger off to Hare's lodging house for
27:29
Speaker 1: the night so that they could you know, killing peace.
27:32
Speaker 1: But saying like this is my relative and I would
27:36
Speaker 1: like some special relative time with her yeah, and so
27:40
Speaker 1: they're like, okay, fine. So they come back later that
27:43
Speaker 1: evening because they want to, you know, because they've left
27:45
Speaker 1: some stuff for their kids. They want to get some
27:47
Speaker 1: clothes with their kids. And they say, you know, bar,
27:50
Speaker 1: they see the Barks and the Hares and Doherty all
27:55
Speaker 1: drunk as farts. They're singing, they're dancing, they're you know whatever. Anyway,
28:00
Speaker 1: they get their ship and they head off back to hers.
28:03
Speaker 1: Now at some point during the night, Burking Hair get
28:06
Speaker 1: into some drunken fight, but they also murder Margaret Doherty
28:10
Speaker 1: and put her body in a pile of straw at
28:13
Speaker 1: the end of the bed instead of just putting her
28:15
Speaker 1: in the tea chest straight away. I don't know. So
28:17
Speaker 1: when the Grays returned the follow so the next day,
28:19
Speaker 1: the Grays returning and they get told the Marjorie Wait
28:23
Speaker 1: a minute, Marjorie Doherty. I have two names for this person, Margaret,
28:27
Speaker 1: Marjorie Mary. Okay, Margaret Marjorie or Mary. They get told
28:31
Speaker 1: this person that had been that she'd been asked to
28:33
Speaker 1: leave because she was getting off flirted with Bark and
28:36
Speaker 1: they're looking at him like sure, okay. And also in addition, furthermore,
28:41
Speaker 1: they're not allowed to enter the bedroom, you know, where
28:43
Speaker 1: they've got stuff, and like, I just want to get
28:45
Speaker 1: my stockings, Like no, you can't go in there, and
28:48
Speaker 1: they're like all right, definitely suspicious. So later on that
28:51
Speaker 1: day and I'm out of pure stupidity, they leave the
28:55
Speaker 1: Grays alone, and being you know, people with eyes and brains,
29:00
Speaker 1: the Grays decide to have a look around and see
29:02
Speaker 1: what the fuck they're hiding in that spare room. And
29:04
Speaker 1: what do they find? Margret Marjorie Mary's dead body under
29:09
Speaker 1: the bed. And they say to Nelly, like what and
29:13
Speaker 1: she tries to bribe them with ten pounds a week
29:15
Speaker 1: for like their silence, and they're like, fuck this for
29:17
Speaker 1: a game of soldiers. Not so, the Grays head off
29:21
Speaker 1: to the police and report the murder. And during this time,
29:25
Speaker 1: but before the police arrive at the lodging house, Birkenheer
29:29
Speaker 1: managed to remove Marjorie's body. Birkenhair have already removed the
29:33
Speaker 1: body and brought it to Knox. Here's the thing. Though
29:36
Speaker 1: they were wise enough to remove the body, however, they
29:39
Speaker 1: were not wise enough to remove the blood stained clothing
29:44
Speaker 1: that was stuffed under the bed. So the bugs are
29:46
Speaker 1: questioned and they're given different times for when Doherty leaves,
29:50
Speaker 1: and the police find this suspicious at the best of times.
29:53
Speaker 1: So as they start unraveling this remarkably simple mystery, the
29:57
Speaker 1: police end up at Knocks and they bring James Gray,
30:01
Speaker 1: who was quite able to identify Margaret Doherty and after
30:06
Speaker 1: reading about this in the paper, Janet Brown was he
30:10
Speaker 1: was able to identify her friend's clothes, the petticoats and
30:13
Speaker 1: stuff that had been found at Hare's lodging house. So
30:17
Speaker 1: the police end up questioning Knots because they're thinking he's
30:20
Speaker 1: obviously in on it, and Knox is like these two
30:22
Speaker 1: fellows when boarding houses, you know, they don't live in
30:25
Speaker 1: the best area. People are dying all around them, and
30:28
Speaker 1: these two tend to like, you know, collect the bodies
30:30
Speaker 1: before anyone claims them for urial and although unethical, not illegal.
30:36
Speaker 1: So they were like, all right, you're free to go,
30:39
Speaker 1: doctor Knox. So a lot of this evidence, you're thinking,
30:42
Speaker 1: we bit circumstantial, We be here and there, But Burke
30:45
Speaker 1: kept a ledger of everybody and everything he paid, which honestly,
30:51
Speaker 1: but also in addition, furthermore, William Hare was illiterate. Out
30:56
Speaker 1: of the two, he was not the sharpest knife in
30:59
Speaker 1: the cutlery drawer, you know what I mean. And he
31:02
Speaker 1: gets offered immunity in return for testifying against Burke and Nelly,
31:06
Speaker 1: and he's like absolutely one hundred percent. So Work is
31:10
Speaker 1: charged and convicted of the murders of Marjorie Doharty, Mary
31:14
Speaker 1: Parison and James Wilson, and Burke is hanged in eighteen
31:18
Speaker 1: twenty nine and his body is given to medical students
31:21
Speaker 1: to dissect. William burke skeleton is still on display at
31:25
Speaker 1: Surgeon's Hall in Edinburgh, next to his death mask and
31:30
Speaker 1: the life mask of William Hare. Also in natomy students
31:34
Speaker 1: took his skin and used it to bind books and cardholders.
31:39
Speaker 1: So Nelly and Margaret they get the hell out of
31:42
Speaker 1: Dodge and Nelly emigrates to Australia. Margaret Bollocks is off
31:47
Speaker 1: back to Ireland and hair just disappears. We don't hear
31:52
Speaker 1: of hiding our hair again, we don't. Yeah, So the
31:57
Speaker 1: rumor is that he flees to England, but we have
32:00
Speaker 1: absolutely no idea. So doctor Knox, his reputation is in
32:06
Speaker 1: fucking tatters even though he's exonerated, because Burke makes a
32:11
Speaker 1: statement saying that he had absolutely no clue where the
32:13
Speaker 1: bodies came from. We hoodwinked him, yes we did. So
32:17
Speaker 1: Knox ends up moving to London, you know, basically trying
32:20
Speaker 1: to like re salvage his career in medicine. So the
32:23
Speaker 1: Burkan Air murders basically lead to this anatomy Activateen thirty two,
32:28
Speaker 1: and this gives the study of medicine greater access to
32:32
Speaker 1: cadavers and the legal donation of bodies to medical science,
32:36
Speaker 1: eliminating the need for you know, the whole body snatching.
32:40
Speaker 1: For the whole body snatching. Let's say this no more
32:47
Speaker 1: resists big connexinges, so basically destroy the trade. What did
32:53
Speaker 1: we learn today?
32:55
Speaker 3: I mean, if you talked to.
32:57
Speaker 1: Me, I'm talking to this though. We are talking to them.
33:01
Speaker 1: We're talking to the fans than the fans.
33:06
Speaker 3: Thank I have fans.
33:10
Speaker 1: I don't you want the names of my fans?
33:15
Speaker 3: Uh?
33:16
Speaker 1: Flash thin bar He's the first one I to talk
33:20
Speaker 1: about hed. I'm so sorry. Listen this and there's a
33:25
Speaker 1: few of them. So basically, is that a lot of people? No,
33:30
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people. Okay, mommy has one hundred
33:32
Speaker 1: thousand followers.
33:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a lot of people.
33:37
Speaker 1: Thank you. So what did we learn today. We've learned that, yes,
33:41
Speaker 1: all men, we learned that if you're going to commit
33:44
Speaker 1: a crime, don't document it because that's not going to
33:47
Speaker 1: end well for you. The killers get cocky, and don't
33:53
Speaker 1: drink whiskey with strange men and boarding houses. I feel
33:57
Speaker 1: like that's a good it's a good life. Listen listening
34:00
Speaker 1: to me, So don't drink whiskey with strange men in
34:03
Speaker 1: boarding houses. Okay, okay, okay. So now if you liked
34:09
Speaker 1: my retelling of this gruesome story, don't forget you can you.
34:14
Speaker 3: Want to know what they can do everybody else on
34:16
Speaker 3: your movie here and can you the same as you?
34:19
Speaker 1: Yes? What you can do is rate and review five
34:22
Speaker 1: stars on Apple podcast or whatever podcast podcast. Then you're
34:26
Speaker 1: listening on big and you can and you're thinking, I
34:31
Speaker 1: want to do more to support you, Well, you can
34:34
Speaker 1: comment on these, you can follow me on social media.
34:38
Speaker 1: You can follow and support on TikTok, Instagram and Facebook,
34:42
Speaker 1: Who did What Now? Pod? And on Twitter who did
34:45
Speaker 1: what Now? PD? If you're thinking, okay, I want to
34:48
Speaker 1: I want to share your post, I want to like
34:50
Speaker 1: your stuff, I want to get involved. That is super
34:53
Speaker 1: And you're thinking I want to support you. I want
34:55
Speaker 1: to support you more and you can. All the links
34:59
Speaker 1: are in the b I always well, so anything you're
35:01
Speaker 1: looking forward down there. So there's Patreon, we have PayPal,
35:05
Speaker 1: Coffee and revel it. They're all there. If you want
35:09
Speaker 1: to make any contribution, I would absolutely be appreciated because
35:13
Speaker 1: books are not free and it's been so much time
35:17
Speaker 1: reading them. That being said, I almost said reading, reading, arithmetic.
35:22
Speaker 1: That's wrong. No, we are looking for recommendations for reading, listening,
35:28
Speaker 1: and watching, So read reading wise. I am going to
35:32
Speaker 1: recommend a little book called The Victorian Master Criminal. If
35:38
Speaker 1: you know me, you know I have a thing about
35:40
Speaker 1: turn of the century crime, Victorian era crime. I find
35:42
Speaker 1: it very fascinating. It's kind of a jam. So there's that.
35:47
Speaker 1: For listening, I'm going to recommend a band if you
35:52
Speaker 1: like enchanting, interesting folk music. I absolutely suggest you listen
35:56
Speaker 1: to Trusty and the Fall. They're on sound cloud, so
36:01
Speaker 1: Foe as in your Enemy like Trusty and the Folk.
36:05
Speaker 1: The music is beautiful. And for watching, well, you could
36:11
Speaker 1: watch the Buck and Hair movie with Simon peg and
36:14
Speaker 1: I think Andy Sergiz, but I feel like the two
36:17
Speaker 1: of them are too old for the parts. But that's
36:18
Speaker 1: neither here nor there. But if you want to watch that,
36:21
Speaker 1: but that's not what I'm recommending. I'm just letting you
36:23
Speaker 1: know that that exists. I am recommending what we Do
36:27
Speaker 1: in the Shadows the TV show, because Naja Naja is amazing.
36:33
Speaker 1: I am obsessed. It is so much fun. Ah, I
36:38
Speaker 1: love it so much, I really really do. Yeah, and
36:41
Speaker 1: that's where I'm gonna leave you. Go watch what we
36:43
Speaker 1: do in the Shadows. It is fantastic. And so this
36:46
Speaker 1: is where I bid you adieu and I will chat
36:48
Speaker 1: to you next time. Adios or air of Wait as
36:51
Speaker 1: them my friends. Bye bye.