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Health Risks and Ethical Violations of Water Fluoridation · UK Column Radio

0:06
Hello everyone and a warm welcome to UK column.
0:10
I'm Liz Evans and I'm delighted to be interviewing Joy Warren
0:13
from the Fluoride Free Alliance UK to discuss the very important
0:17
issue of water fluoridation, a serious health and ethical
0:21
issue. So Joy has a degree in
0:24
environmental science and has been campaigning against water
0:27
fluoridation for over 20 years, including advising and helping
0:33
my organisation, the UK Medical Freedom Alliance, in a campaign
0:36
we ran last year opposing a proposal to add fluoride to
0:41
water in a large area of North East England.
0:44
So thank you so much for joining us Joy.
0:48
I just wonder if we could start with you telling us a little bit
0:50
about your background and how you became involved in
0:53
campaigning against water fluoridation.
0:56
Oh, good morning, Liz. Thanks for asking me to come
0:58
onto the programme. Yeah.
1:00
About 22 years ago, I learned about fluoridation at a Friends
1:05
of the Earth meeting the lady was telling us about.
1:10
It was a medical doctor and she had been made I'll by drinking
1:14
fluoridated water in Coventry, having previously lived in
1:18
London. The illness, unknown to her for
1:21
about two years, was hypothyroidism.
1:25
Clearly she was not taking her kelp on or taking iodide and she
1:30
was drinking fluoridated tap water and fluoridated food
1:34
manufactured in the West Midlands.
1:38
So I took it away for about a year and I thought, Nah, the
1:42
government couldn't be doing this to us, surely, but they
1:45
were. And I found so much information
1:49
that's I I really became so convinced that fluoridation of
1:54
our drinking water was a thoroughly bad thing, not just
1:57
because it was medically unorthodox, but because it was
2:03
giving us compulsory medicine. But at the time, the definition
2:08
of medicine hadn't been kind of worked out through the system.
2:13
But I now know it is definitely medicine and therefore it's
2:17
definitely unethical. And you, you have a degree in
2:20
environmental science. Was it covered at all in that?
2:24
I mean, did did that help you in your sort of understanding and
2:28
and alarm as you learn more about fluoride?
2:32
No, it wasn't covered in the degree course, not even fluoride
2:37
going into the rivers following treatment in the sewage works,
2:42
although we did look at sewage treatments, which helps a lot
2:44
for me to understand what's going on.
2:46
I think possibly the degree course helped me to work things
2:51
out properly logically as opposed to getting emotional
2:54
about it. And I mean, many of us, you
2:57
know, hearing your story might be starting to raise alarm bells
3:01
thinking I don't even know if I'm in a fluoridated area.
3:05
So how much of the UK is affected by having fluoride in
3:09
their water? And how would someone find out
3:10
whether their area is affected all?
3:13
Right. So 6 million people living in
3:15
England are fluoridated deliberately.
3:18
Another 3300 thousand are getting water which has got
3:24
natural fluoride in it and that comes from the bedrock.
3:29
It's mainly in the East Coast of England that you'll find natural
3:34
fluoride for deliberate fluoride.
3:37
It's most of the West Midlands and Warwickshire and most of the
3:41
northeast part of it is threatened now as opposed to
3:45
being fluoridated at the moment. And there are pockets of other
3:50
places like W Cumbria and Cheshire and Bedfordshire which
3:54
have got it as well. And that's because I think
3:58
something to do with industry and the prevailing winds and the
4:03
people living NE of prevailing winds are possibly being
4:07
fluoridated because of the industry not wanting to worry
4:12
about their pollutants coming out of their stacks.
4:16
It's a kind of like a cloak and dagger thing really.
4:20
And this happened back in 1985 when Margaret Thatcher legalised
4:23
fluoridation. And she started off with leave
4:27
then worrying about Concert and Stanley and Northumberland where
4:32
there was a large population of coal miners.
4:36
That she she was a chemist. She knew all about fluoride, so
4:41
she knew how it affected the body and how it's silts up the
4:45
pineal gland. So why wouldn't she want to sort
4:49
of keep the population quiet? Because that's what's happening.
4:52
Because they they used it in the gulags in Russia to to keep the
4:58
prisoners quiet. So yeah, that's probably what's
5:02
happening for most people who don't even know they're
5:04
fluoridated and don't even know why it would be dangerous for
5:08
them to have it in their water every day of their lives while
5:11
living in a fluoridated area. So from an informed consent
5:16
perspective, I'm thinking, you know, is it not written?
5:18
Is it written on people's water bills?
5:20
You know, you are in a fluoridated area and you are
5:23
being medicated. It just feels like this is
5:26
something that's going on under the radar and people aren't even
5:30
being informed so that they know what's in their water.
5:34
Is that is that kind of how you found it in the different water
5:38
regions? I think anybody moving into a
5:41
fluoridated area but not think to ask about the water supply
5:45
when you move into a new house, it's only later.
5:48
Perhaps it might percolate through to you.
5:51
A few years back we persuaded 7 Trents to add a clause in the
5:56
back of their water bill saying that your water is fluoridated.
6:00
That lasted for about 3 years and then it disappeared.
6:03
But I don't think it's on any water bills, but definitely is.
6:06
If you go into a water company's website and ask to see the water
6:12
quality report for your post code, you will then see there's
6:15
a statement above the details which says that fluoride is
6:20
added to your water at the behest of the health authorities
6:24
and that's only then you will realise that you are
6:27
fluoridated. If you then go into the detailed
6:29
report, you will see that the level of fluoride is slightly
6:33
higher than natural fluoride in some cases.
6:37
So we'd have levels of say point 7.8 minimum, average and
6:44
maximum. But natural fluoride is
6:47
constant. So if you were living in say
6:52
outside bath, you'd find something like .2 minimum, .2
6:57
average, .2 maximum. So that's constant.
7:01
The deliberate fluoride fluctuates throughout the year.
7:07
You just don't know. You have to look it up.
7:09
You just have to know know to look it up before you find out
7:12
basically. Right.
7:13
So it requires an active forensic effort from a consumer
7:17
to even find out what they're they have to look into these
7:21
reports. And I'm curious about is is
7:24
natural fluoride less hazardous to human health than the added
7:30
fluoride? At the levels encountered in
7:33
England it is less injurious, it's calcium fluoride and also
7:38
magnesium fluoride. But in a couple of areas on the
7:41
North East coast like Hartlepool, Italy, Easington,
7:47
the levels are one milligramme and more because they these
7:51
areas lie over the magnesium shales and the magnesium has
7:55
fluoride in it. So the natural fluoride for
7:58
example in Hartlepool is 1.9 milligrammes of fluoride.
8:03
But because that's over the 1.5 maximum World Health
8:06
Organisation level, it has to be brought down by diluting it with
8:10
water from outside the area which does not have fluoride in
8:13
it. But they can't bring too much
8:14
water in from outside because that would deplete the
8:17
groundwater of the water outside the area.
8:20
They bring it down to 1.3. So anybody living in Hartlepool
8:23
is really very much overexposed, especially the unborn child and
8:28
the infant being given baby formula made up with fluoridated
8:33
tap water or not in this case with fluoride tap water.
8:37
Yeah. And presumably it would not be
8:39
beyond the industry to actually get rid of the natural fluoride
8:44
in the water. You know, they they must have
8:46
filtration systems or osmosis, reverse osmosis systems that
8:50
could do that, but they choose not to.
8:52
They just dilute it down to the sort of the highest threshold
8:57
they can get away with. That's for sure.
9:01
Well, I think possibly using reverse osmosis for water
9:04
treatment works would be completely unrealistic.
9:07
You just can't do it. That wouldn't work at all.
9:10
The only way you can bring down the natural fluoride is to bring
9:13
in non fluoride water from outside the region because if
9:17
you're in the middle of West Midlands, that would be very
9:19
difficult. If we had natural fluoride in
9:20
our water, which we don't, we just have artificial fluoride.
9:25
For example, now let's see a roommate use the example of
9:28
Hartlepool where they bring in water to bring it down by .6.
9:33
So you now have 1.3. It's really bad news.
9:35
Why should those people have to put up with that?
9:38
Because that's health damaging over the decades and obviously
9:42
it's going to really harm the unborn child and the infant
9:45
anyway. We, it is really difficult.
9:49
I mean they can't, they just can't philtre it out.
9:51
And when you do water treatment it goes through aluminium
9:56
sulphate, which what lovely word this is, flocculates off all the
10:01
nasties and catch, catches all them into sort of white flocks
10:05
which float on top of the water as it's flowing through the
10:09
water. Treatment works.
10:10
So the purified water goes out the bottom of the tank and then
10:16
proceeds through the water treatment process.
10:19
That's the only way they can do it.
10:21
But you know, they can't remove all the natural fluoride.
10:25
If they could using that sort of water treatment system, then we
10:29
would not have any natural fluoride in our drinking water,
10:32
and we do. So then moving on to the
10:35
artificially fluoridated water, I understand that contrary to
10:38
what we're led to believe, it isn't the mineral fluoride
10:41
that's added to the water. It's some very toxic fluoride
10:45
compound. I think it's it.
10:46
Is it hexafluorosilicic acid? Well done.
10:52
How do you tell us a bit more about hexafluorocilicic acid and
10:57
how it ended up or when, when did it start being put in our
11:00
drinking water? And what's the story behind this
11:02
this compound? Let me tell you about the
11:08
compound. First of all, the chemical
11:10
formula is H2 SIF 6. That's hydrogen, 2 atoms, silica
11:18
one atom, fluoride 6 atoms. Now, isn't hexa because of 6
11:24
atoms in the fluoride? Fluoride is 6 atoms, right?
11:28
So that's hexa, but it's a misnomer.
11:30
It's, it's intended to deceive in a way because it should be
11:34
hydrofluorosilicic acid, which would be a more accurate
11:37
description. But once you say there was
11:39
hydrogen in the mix and there's fluoride in the mix, some people
11:43
might get a bit sort of suspicious because you've then
11:46
got something which could be hydrofluoric acid, which is a, a
11:51
deadly, deadly combination. But the silica is getting in the
11:55
way at the moment, so it's not a problem.
11:56
But once it gets into the stomach, the hydrofluoric acid
12:00
does actually worm its way through the stomach wall and
12:03
then sets up irritation in in the stomach lining.
12:07
Now, could this be the colic which babies experience in a
12:12
fluoridated area? I have no idea if we could
12:14
actually do a comparison. Could map colic against
12:19
fluoridated non fluoridated dairies we might find something
12:22
interesting but I don't think anybody's going to do that for
12:25
us. H2 SIF 6 is an industrial
12:30
hazardous waste. It's not worth getting away from
12:33
it. The industry that produces it
12:37
should neutralise it and make it less dangerous, perhaps turn it
12:41
into sodium fluoride and then sequester it somewhere
12:44
underground because by this time it'll be crystal and they keep
12:47
it dry. It should be OK, but it's costs
12:51
money to neutralise. But they get a little bit of
12:54
money from governments like ours to bring it into the country and
12:58
put it into our drinking water. Now, I can't understand why
13:02
anybody would want to put a hazardous waste in our drinking
13:05
water, but it's diluted. It's so heavily diluted, you're
13:09
told don't worry, it won't hurt you.
13:12
And also everything in that acid is below maximum levels that are
13:17
allowable. However, that's just the
13:20
concentration of the contaminants and the chemicals
13:24
in the acid. They're not looking at the dose.
13:28
That's the dose per day and the dose per lifetime, which are the
13:33
dangerous things. Now, the dose per day should not
13:37
exceed more than six milligrammes of fluoride a day.
13:42
But people who drink lots of tap water, which has got fluoride
13:45
added, and if they drink tea made up with fluoridated tap
13:50
water and if they drink more than six mugs of tea a day, you
13:56
know, we're now talking about going over six milligrammes a
13:59
day. And I've heard of people
14:01
drinking 10 mugs of tea a day made with fluoridated tap water.
14:05
And that's no good for their their health going forward.
14:10
Also, we've got lots of chemicals in the acid which are
14:15
in the rock which is ground down to make phosphate fertiliser.
14:22
And these contaminants either stay in the phosphate fertiliser
14:25
or they go into the hazardous waste.
14:27
And these contaminants are heavy metals such as antimony,
14:30
arsenic, cadmium, chromium, lead, mercury, nickel and
14:37
beneficial selenium. Fortunately, this is how we get
14:40
our selenium I suspect in our diet, but it's bad news.
14:44
And also we've got this hydrofluoric acid which is in
14:47
the acid itself which is free. So it actually can gas off as
14:51
hydrogen fluoride gas. And that gas I believe is what
14:55
did for the residents of Herculaneum and Pompeii when
15:00
Vesuvius loo back in the what is it?
15:04
I can't remember the date. So we say 2000 years ago, so and
15:10
then you've got the water which stops the particulates and hot
15:15
gases going out the chimney at the phosphate fertiliser
15:19
manufactory. And that water is not pure, it's
15:23
been hanging around, it's been contaminated.
15:25
So there are lots of nasty things in there as well.
15:28
And onto about about 28 different contaminants in the
15:32
hydrofluorosilicic acid, which um, which is not good for our
15:38
health going forward. Every day of our life we'll be
15:41
drinking these. They're in minute proportions.
15:44
But you really shouldn't have arsenic in your drinking water.
15:46
And I think the main reason for having water treatment, I may be
15:50
wrong here, but it's to take out all the nasties.
15:54
So we have nice potable water in coming out of our tap.
15:58
But how can you have potable water when all the nasties, most
16:01
of them have been removed and then the water company adds them
16:05
back. And that is the real scandal of
16:08
fluoridation. They're trying to tell us, oh,
16:10
it's, it's OK because everything is below to be maximum
16:13
allowable, but it may well be. But we're looking at daily
16:18
exposure, lifetime exposure and lots of these heavy metals are
16:23
bio accumulative, real scandal. That is extremely concerning.
16:29
So whose bright idea was it to add this to drinking water?
16:33
When did it first happen in the UK and were we the were we the
16:37
country that started it or had this already happened elsewhere?
16:41
And yes, it started run in the United States.
16:44
It was because the Aluminium Company of America couldn't get
16:48
rid of its waste at a small cost.
16:51
So they decided to dump it. But they couldn't dump it
16:53
because the law said they couldn't do that.
16:56
So somebody had a bright idea that would be put in drinking
17:00
water and drip fed into the drinking water and therefore
17:03
drip fed into people. But most of it isn't drunk and
17:07
that's that's why most of it goes into the sewers and then it
17:10
goes into the rivers, the estuaries and into the sea.
17:14
And that's where it can't be dumped in the 1st place.
17:17
But this time it's, it's being drip fed.
17:19
It's very dilute. So yeah, why not?
17:21
Hey, the sea, you can take it. The sea is more able to put up
17:25
with levels of fluoride that the rivers can't.
17:28
And of course in the rivers, the freshwater life is now suffering
17:33
that badly because in in England it goes into our sewers and half
17:37
of it goes into our rivers when it's being treated right.
17:41
SO194849 it did it. This started a 10 year trial to
17:47
see what would happen to the dentition of children.
17:51
And they said, Oh yeah, it's working, It's wonderful.
17:53
But they forgot to tell us about the reduction in dental decay in
17:57
the non fluoridated control group.
18:01
It was very, very, very bad. There was so, so orchestrated.
18:06
Then in the UK, the government had a bright idea to send some
18:09
dentists across to America to find out what was happening and
18:13
the dentist came back to the UK and said hey, it's brilliant
18:16
stuff. This is really stopping dental
18:18
decay and we've got a huge amount of dental decay in our
18:21
children, so let's, let's do it. So it started a trial, 4 trials
18:26
in 1955 in four areas of Great Britain, and that was in
18:32
Scotland, Anglesey, in Wales, Watford and in Andover.
18:39
The people in Andover chucked it out after about three years
18:42
because the local authority changed hands and the people who
18:46
got in power said we're in power now, we don't want it, so stop
18:51
putting in our drinking water. And because they owned the water
18:53
board at the time, Andover's borough council would do that.
18:58
So that was good. And then in Scotland, the area
19:02
which was fluoridated chucked it out after about 10 years.
19:07
Watford had already chucked it out and the only area which
19:10
continued to be fluoridated under the trial was Anglesey,
19:14
and they finished in 1991 because Welsh Water decided they
19:18
didn't want to do it anymore, basically that they just told
19:21
the government to get lost. And that's the four trials
19:24
finished then finally in 1991. But in the meantime, Birmingham
19:28
received a grant of money from America to start fluoridating
19:31
the West Midlands. And I believe at the time the
19:35
dental decay was really bad because they'd brought in very,
19:39
very soft water from Wales, which didn't have any good
19:42
minerals in it. And the, you know, the dental
19:46
decay had increased. So they had to do something and
19:49
they did it without asking anyone's permission.
19:51
There was no public consultation whatsoever at 64.
19:55
And then progressively between 64 and 87, the rest of the
20:00
fluoridated areas were fluoridated.
20:02
I don't know the last one to be fluoridated, but as I say, I
20:06
don't really think it was all about dental decay.
20:09
It could well have been pressure from heavy industry not wanting
20:12
to get a bad reputation for polluting areas to the North
20:16
East of their manufacturing plants.
20:20
I mean, I'm thinking about this from an ethical perspective as
20:22
well, you know, because obviously what this constitutes
20:26
is a public health measure to add fluoride to drinking water
20:30
to reduce dental decay. But this is A1 size fits all
20:34
forced mass medication of the UK public, you know, the people in
20:38
fluoridated areas. There is no, you know,
20:40
individual risk benefit analysis for this medication.
20:45
And, and of course, drinking water is, is the most basic
20:49
thing of life. We cannot survive without water.
20:51
And if you don't have a lot of money, you can't be buying
20:54
water. So you it comes out of your tap.
20:56
So this is, this is an extremely unethical way to administer a
21:02
public health measure, I would say.
21:05
And as you say, you know, you've got significant chronic and
21:09
cumulative risks because this isn't just a one off exposure.
21:14
This is all day, every day for every day of your life.
21:20
And fluoride must, you know, if you're having it as a medical
21:23
intervention, it will have risks as well as benefits.
21:25
I'm sure they will acknowledge that there are risks as well as
21:28
benefits. So what is the evidence that
21:31
water fluoridation will benefit dental health?
21:35
And then on the flip side, what are the known risks and harms?
21:39
So you know what? What is this risk benefit
21:42
analysis? Right, so the benefit is
21:45
apparently fluoridated 5 year olds have 3% less dental decay
21:50
than non fluoridated children. Those those figures come from 2
21:56
very recent research reports which were paid for by the UK
22:01
government. So the UK government surely
22:03
knows the results. 3% means diddly squat.
22:07
Basically it's a perhaps one filling per mouth and it's
22:12
really a lot of money to spend fluoridating our entire
22:15
population just to prevent one filling as it were.
22:20
Or do they fill baby teeth? They probably do these days.
22:26
So the benefit is tiny. And the researchers said that it
22:31
was a modest improvement in dental hygiene.
22:36
The risks are the ones we are quoting at the moment because I
22:40
seem to be so obvious. Hypothyroidism where if a woman
22:46
has in the main has a deficit of iodide and too much fluoride in
22:51
her body, her thyroid gland is poisoned.
22:54
And there are 50%, almost 50% more people with hyperthyroidism
23:01
in a fluoridated area of England compared to a non fluoridated
23:06
area. And the places quoted are
23:09
Greater Birmingham versus Greater Manchester.
23:12
Manchester is not fluoridated. It's almost double the amount of
23:18
hyperthyroidism amongst mainly elderly women in those areas in
23:24
the West Midlands. The other one we believe is,
23:27
well, we've seen a lot of research and there is a review
23:31
on ResearchGate into this and that's diabetes 2.
23:34
Because fluoride is an enzyme destroyer and lots of processes
23:42
go on in the endocrine system and the pancreas is clearly
23:48
likely to be damaged by the bioaccumulation of fluoride in
23:52
the in the organs. Then we've got the fractured
23:56
hips now, because fluoride is supposed to accumulate in teeth
24:03
to stop decay, which it doesn't really when you think about it.
24:08
How can it then it goes into the bones and the bones accumulate
24:12
it and that has effect of densifying the bone material but
24:16
also stopping the production of collagen, bone collagen.
24:20
And that causes brittle bones over the decades.
24:24
So when you're standing at the kitchen sink and you're a lady
24:27
of about 6570 and you have a spontaneous break of your thigh
24:32
bone and then you fall to the floor, people used to think it
24:36
was falling, which caused the breakage, but we think now
24:39
perhaps in a lot of cases it's the breakage of the bone before
24:42
the fall occurs. So that's a really bad thing
24:45
because again, a recent research report from Scandinavia in 1921,
24:53
April 21 found that there was 50% more fractured neck of femur
25:02
in fluoride fluoridated women compared to non fluoridated
25:07
women. But I have to say here in this
25:08
particular part of Scandinavia, it's natural fluoride.
25:12
So yes, calcium fluoride can be a bit OK, but in this particular
25:16
case it really made the bones weak.
25:19
So the correlation is really strong in this particular case
25:23
in, in 2022, a year later, we find that the Department of
25:29
Health in their four yearly monitoring report on the health
25:34
effects of fluoride forgot to include the 2021 Scandinavian
25:40
report, which is rather good, wasn't it?
25:43
They, they included other things on, on fractured neck of femur,
25:46
but not the Scandinavian 1. So that barely, well, I didn't
25:52
believe in his reports anyway, but that barely put put the
25:55
cherry on the top of the cake basically for me.
25:57
They, they just don't want to admit that there's any harm in
26:01
fluoridation. And finally, the most important
26:04
thing that we are concerned about now is because fluoride in
26:08
the in the womb and in the infants causes a reduction,
26:13
significant reduction in IQ. And that's because when the
26:18
woman is pregnant, she may be drinking fluoridated tap water,
26:22
she may be drinking lots of tea because she shouldn't be
26:25
drinking alcohol, but she shouldn't really be drinking tea
26:28
either because that's really bad.
26:30
And the thesis is overexposed to fluoride, which affects the
26:36
developing endocrine system. And it also gets into the brain
26:41
because in the foetus there is no blood brain barrier.
26:45
Now this causes permanent brain damage, not that you'd notice.
26:50
The child will be less intelligent, but not noticeably
26:53
so to the the in the eyes of the parents.
26:57
Unfortunately, this actually shifts the intelligence of the
27:02
whole population down. So your geniuses will now be
27:06
highly intelligent and your average intelligent children
27:09
will be not so intelligent and the not so intelligent will be
27:13
special needs. And the special needs would be
27:16
probably completely non educationable because there's
27:20
just no way that they can ever be shown how to improve their
27:24
brain health and their intelligence.
27:27
So this is a really bad thing. We've had an American judgement
27:33
in September last year, after seven years court trial, a judge
27:38
ruled that fluoride poses an unreasonable risk to the IQ of
27:42
children. That is a really very strong
27:48
decision, he told the Environmental Protection Agency.
27:52
To basically up up their game, try to stop the overexposure to
27:58
the population to fluoride because obviously you don't want
28:01
your population to be unintelligent.
28:04
That would be a recipe for disaster.
28:08
So those are the three or four real reasons why we don't.
28:12
We think it's really bad for health and of course the ethics
28:15
is out of this world. It's really bad news.
28:18
You cannot give someone who has got mental capacity compulsory
28:25
medicine and it's coming out of your tap and you can't afford to
28:29
buy unfloridated water in bottles but you can't afford to
28:32
philtre it. It's compulsory because you have
28:35
to have water to keep yourself hydrated, to keep away all the
28:39
nasty diseases you can have from being dehydrated.
28:43
So it's really bad news. I could quote you all the law on
28:47
this if you wanted me to, but I've gone on for some time I
28:49
think. That was really, really
28:52
interesting. And I mean, it just shows what a
28:55
catastrophic policy this is. The the figures are astounding
28:59
about the the increased rates of the hypothyroid, hypothyroidism
29:03
and the fractured neck of femurs.
29:05
We're not just talking about 1% more, we're talking about 50%
29:08
more and thinking about what that means for public health,
29:12
because these are life limiting, life ending conditions, they
29:17
will knock years and years off people's health.
29:21
Then of course, the, the additional exposure to the
29:25
foetus and the developing brain and the impact that that's now
29:29
being sort of proven in court to have is really, really sobering,
29:35
very sobering. And, you know, so in your sort
29:38
of research through the government sort of data, have
29:42
they actually ever produced a study which shows evidence for
29:47
long term safety for this? Because it's, it's, it's all
29:51
very well to say, Oh yes, we've shown that this, you know,
29:55
reduces dental decay. But where is there research that
29:58
says we have studied people for 30 years who are taking this
30:01
much a day and we're comparing them to a control group who were
30:05
in a completely unfloridated area for 30 years And these are
30:08
the health outcomes? Have they ever done this because
30:12
it feels like the owner should be on the government to prove
30:16
long term safety before they started basically treating us as
30:20
Guinea pigs? Correct.
30:22
They have never done a risk analysis research into the
30:26
issue. And when we do Freedom of
30:28
Information requests to the Department of Health and ask
30:31
them to provide the input information, research
30:35
information which proves the mantra of safe and effective,
30:41
they say the Department of Health does not hold the
30:45
information. That's a get out, isn't it?
30:48
They don't. They don't know.
30:49
They don't have it. That seems to be the mantra for
30:51
everything toxic that they want to give to you.
30:55
It's the marketing slogan. So again, has that been kind of
30:58
used in in fluoride that it's safe and effective?
31:02
Oh yes, all the time. Of course it is.
31:04
Yes, otherwise it wouldn't be doing it, would they?
31:07
Yeah, Safe and effective every other week, I'd say.
31:11
Wow. So where are dentists in all
31:13
this? Because obviously they play a
31:15
massive part in not just pushing water fluoridation, but also
31:20
giving people individually fluoride containing products.
31:23
You know, painting fluoride on people's teeth, fluoride
31:28
mouthwashes, toothpastes. And I remember when I was a
31:33
child taking fluoride tablets because that was all the rage.
31:36
You'd get you, you know, your child would take their fluoride
31:38
tablet every day. What teaching do they get on
31:42
fluoride toxicity and how willing are they to engage with
31:46
your information and your campaigning?
31:49
Right, so the American Dental Association is completely in
31:53
favour of fluoridation. I have no idea why they perhaps
31:57
they get more patients later on in their lives with damaged
32:01
teeth from the fluoride that has transferred across the pond to
32:05
the British Dental Association and the British Dental
32:08
Association are in cahoots with the British Fluoridation
32:11
Society. The the dental schools teach
32:16
that fluoride is good for dental health and they haven't changed.
32:20
I suspect they haven't actually had their textbooks updated for
32:23
several decades. So the the dentists come out of
32:28
dental school believing in fluoridation and fluoride.
32:31
And of course, they are now encouraged to paint the teeth of
32:35
young patients with fluoride varnish, whether or not the
32:39
parent wants it or not. I mean, OK, if the woman, if the
32:43
parent turns her back while the dentist gets the brush out and
32:47
she sees that the dentist is just about to brush the teeth
32:50
with fluoride, she can say no, stop.
32:53
And she has the right to do that because the dentist won't like
32:56
that because he's already opened the bottle and probably wasted
32:58
his brush. Whatever whatever they use,
33:02
presumably it is a small brush they dentist coming out of.
33:08
Mainstream dental colleges believe in fluoridation and the
33:12
BDA encourages this belief. It's an ideological position,
33:17
isn't it? Very similar to doctors
33:18
believing in vaccination. It feels like the fluidation is
33:22
the sacred cow of dentistry. And I would just like to back up
33:26
what you said about the what they when they're trying to
33:29
paint children's teeth. That actually happened to me
33:32
with one of my children. I'd just taken them to a routine
33:35
appointment and then suddenly the dentist goes, oh, I'm just
33:38
going to put this fluid on your teeth.
33:39
And I literally went stop, do not do it.
33:42
And then we had this big argument and I was just like,
33:46
no, I don't want you to do it. And you know, well, why not?
33:49
And da, da, da. And I just said, no, I don't
33:51
consent. Anyway, we got out without my
33:54
daughter being painted. But it was, I was so shocked
33:57
that AI hadn't been asked. It was just presented as a fait
34:01
accompli. And B, that when I said I don't
34:03
want this, that this was such an emotive issue.
34:07
So we we actually switched dentists as a result.
34:10
But yeah, so I have first had the experience of that.
34:12
And it is so you're you're really up against a profession
34:18
which has an ideal deep seated ideological belief which cannot
34:23
be questioned. What are your tactics in terms
34:28
of like your, the campaigners in trying to sort of breakdown this
34:33
this ignorance? We have great difficulty getting
34:37
through to anybody as well as in the case of vaccinations, do not
34:43
doctors and dentists get paid to use a certain type of treatment?
34:48
So your, your emotive dentist was probably thinking, oh, I've
34:53
just lost 6 or 7 lbs because this woman is being so
34:57
absolutely stubborn about this. And also, I mean, I don't ever
35:01
have any vaccinations. I must be losing my doctor an
35:03
awful lot of money because I get 3 or 4 reminders each year to go
35:07
and get a vaccination for shingles and flu and COVID and
35:11
boosters and things like that. I just don't go.
35:14
But they are so keen because they make money from pushing
35:18
these particular treatments or prophylactics if you like.
35:23
OK, I have failed my organisations failed to engage
35:29
with the dentists. The only dentists that we can
35:32
talk to are holistic dentists or the ones who don't belong to the
35:35
BDA and they are in the minority.
35:39
How do you battle something like this?
35:43
I used to put comments on the British Dental Journal comments
35:48
box on certain things until they stopped putting the comments box
35:52
on because of people like me being against that.
35:55
What they're pushing, as it were, no, it's really difficult
36:00
to break in. And how do you get a course book
36:03
changed when the policy policy is still still strong there?
36:08
And why are they not listening? Why are the dentists not
36:11
listening? And the BDA, why do they not
36:14
want to see the truth? Is it because they've been wrong
36:17
all this time and they don't want to admit it?
36:19
And that probably is more likely the case.
36:22
It's a serious responsibility to prescribe any medication to an
36:26
individual. And if you think about how LAX
36:30
they are around the dosage of fluoride, because you know, if
36:34
you're giving, I know sometimes they'll say you need high
36:37
fluoride toothpaste. So this isn't just your normal
36:40
toothpaste from the supermarket, but you're getting, you know,
36:43
really high levels in specialised toothpaste, plus
36:46
mouthwashes, plus this painting and then plus you don't know how
36:50
much people are drinking. I mean, people could be getting
36:53
astronomical levels of fluoride that could cause some very
36:57
serious, quite quick acute health problems.
37:00
You know, if you think about the range of dosage across the
37:04
country where some people are probably getting away with
37:06
having hardly any fluoride and some people are getting
37:09
thousands of times higher. We could probably say it's also
37:13
in their pharmaceutical drugs because it's I believe fluoride
37:17
is a potentiator to get the active substance into the cells.
37:21
Now once fluoride gets into your cell heads for the mitochondria
37:27
where it's will interfere with the electron chain transfer
37:32
mechanism for creating ADP from ATP.
37:37
So your, your energy is going to be reducing gradually over the
37:41
decades. I, I'm amazed how much, for
37:46
example, in Hartlepool where they have 1.3 milligrammes per
37:50
litre, they don't even look at reducing pharmaceutical good
37:56
doses. They don't tell anybody, you
37:58
know, keep away from AB and C because that will increase your
38:02
fluoride load. And of course at 1.3, the
38:05
fluoride load in Hartlepool is even higher because of
38:08
everything they're eating or drinking apart from the brewery,
38:12
which in Hartlepool which makes very nice beer.
38:16
I've been there. We had a tour and we asked the
38:19
question and they showed us the reverse osmosis philtres and the
38:23
they use natural amnesium fluoride water from the ground.
38:28
So they don't have any water charges, but they take all the
38:32
minerals out using these reverse osmosis philtres.
38:35
So the beer is very pure. It's strange to believe that
38:39
that's happening. And they know about it, of
38:41
course, in Hartlepool when they're brewing their beer.
38:44
And the beer in Hartlepool is sold around the country.
38:47
So there you go. So yeah, the the doses are, it's
38:52
just ridiculous. And also, and I realise that
38:55
it's actually is absorbed through the skin when you have a
38:59
hot bath and that's going to damage the endocrine system in
39:03
the skin because the keratinocytes have got an
39:07
endocrine function. Another reason why I think older
39:10
ladies infuriated areas get come down with with hyperthyroidism
39:15
far more easily because a lot of little ladies love having a hot
39:19
bath and don't realise that they are actually swimming in poison.
39:23
And that is what it is. If it produces a child's IQ is
39:27
known as a developmental neurotoxin.
39:31
And if it's not exactly developmental for an adult,
39:35
still a neurotoxin and a toxin. So you just don't want it
39:38
anywhere near your body because it really, really damages the
39:43
whole body systems. So yeah, the dose is definitely
39:47
uncontrolled. Definitely.
39:49
Yeah. So I think there's going to be a
39:50
lot of our listeners who are going to be quite concerned,
39:53
especially if they're in a fluoridated area.
39:56
So what can people do to actually reduce their exposure
40:00
if they are? Cursed with this additional
40:05
fluoride being put into their water, What you know, what steps
40:08
have people been taking which might help?
40:11
It's a bit of a discipline and you just have to realise that
40:14
it's not going to be too much of A discipline after a few weeks.
40:17
First of all, in my house and we're fluoridated, we have
40:22
reverse osmosis, but when I can't be bothered to change the
40:24
philtres, I stick the filtered water into a distiller.
40:29
So we then get 4 litres of pure pure water after four hours.
40:34
Then you have to wait for it to cool down, stick it into the
40:38
receptacle you're going to be drinking it out of.
40:41
Our distiller has got a stainless steel body internally
40:46
and externally and also we have a glass receptacle to receive
40:50
the filtered water. Unfortunately, we don't go for
40:53
glass Demi Johns, so we do drink out of plastic bottles.
40:57
That's why we wait for it to cool down that so you can also
41:02
use water philtre jugs, but they're not very good.
41:06
And you have to be really careful and make sure that there
41:09
are accredited laboratory analysis for the filtered water
41:14
from each product you're looking at on the Internet.
41:18
First of all, Brighter Brita has never never claimed that their
41:24
product it reduces or removes fluoride, so I find it
41:27
unconscionable that they have promotions in supermarkets in
41:32
fluoridated areas. Reduced price because that's so
41:36
bad. Because the philtre taking out
41:38
the good stuff and leaving behind the bad stuff.
41:41
There are some other water Philtre jugs on the market which
41:46
I wouldn't touch until I've done a thorough analysis.
41:50
And it's it's you have to be very careful here because you
41:53
have to do it when the philtre is new, when it's half used and
41:57
three quarters used and completely depleted to make sure
42:01
that the claims were accurate. But the one thing I would say
42:04
about 0 water Philtre, it does work, although I have no doubts
42:07
to begin with, but I did actually analyse it and it did
42:10
work and it does work. It does this philtre jugs.
42:14
So it's reverse osmosis which is really good.
42:18
Again, you have to change the philtres and the membranes half
42:22
at six months and at a year. So philtres every six months and
42:26
the membrane every every year in order to put to keep the
42:31
efficiency of the philtre. Other ones, bone char, highly
42:38
concentrated compressed bone char.
42:41
Philtres do work to remove fluoride, but it's not much good
42:46
for if you're of a religious persuasion because you wouldn't
42:50
want to have your water going through bone char.
42:54
And at the end of the day, you can buy bottled water if you
42:57
want to. Some bottled waters sold in
43:00
England and the whole UK in fact I wouldn't touch because they
43:05
have got fluoride in. But most of the waters produced
43:08
in in the UK are pure, perhaps about .1 milligramme fluoride,
43:15
natural fluoride, so they're OK. I can tell you about the one I
43:18
wouldn't touch and that is an Italian produced one called San
43:23
Pellegrino which has got .5 milligrammes fluoride in it per
43:28
litre. You can reduce your fluoride
43:30
intake by avoiding Indian tea, all all black tea from Kenya and
43:36
from India or anything grown in a fluoride laden soil.
43:44
And if the name of the tea Bush is Camellia sinensis then it
43:48
will have fluoride in it because it's a The leaves are fluoride
43:53
bioaccumulators and the older leaves have more fluoride.
43:57
So even if you go for a top quality tea with young, young
44:02
leaves, you're still going to get a certain amount of fluoride
44:05
in it. And of course if you're making a
44:07
fluoridated tap water, then you're basically overdosing each
44:11
day of your life. And of course that will have a
44:14
nasty effect on your bones the older you get and on your
44:18
endocrine system. Try and avoid foods manufactured
44:24
in a fluoridated area because they are using fluoridated tap
44:27
water to make the to make up the ingredients.
44:31
And of course if it's a first ingredient in the list of
44:38
ingredients in that in that particular food, then obviously
44:41
the majority is going to be water, fluoridated water.
44:45
So you need to avoid things made in say Britvic in Rugby because
44:51
they make up concentrate with fluoridated tap water.
44:57
You just need to know where to what to look for on the
45:00
ingredients and if you can find out the source of the food then
45:04
you're fine. But unfortunately markets don't
45:08
actually tell you the post code or the town where their foods
45:12
are manufactured. So you just have to be a
45:14
detective. It's not an easy thing.
45:17
It all depends how switched on you are to avoiding fluoride.
45:21
But the most important thing is don't drink fluoridated tap
45:23
water, don't have a hot bath in a fluoridated area, and don't
45:27
drink tea. And that will probably reduce
45:29
your overexposure. And obviously don't use anything
45:33
to do with fluoride in your mouth.
45:36
No fluoridated toothpaste and no fluoridated mouthwash.
45:40
And also I can go into that in a moment if you want me to,
45:44
because we can talk about the NO pathway, which is a very
45:48
important pathway which is damaged by fluoride.
45:51
That is absolutely amazing advice that's really
45:54
comprehensive and actually that's super helpful for people.
45:58
And just because we're coming towards the end of our time, I
46:01
really want to talk about you've, you've mounted a legal
46:06
group challenge in the UK class action to challenge this water
46:10
fluoridation in the UK. So we'd love to hear about that
46:14
and you know how people can join and support that.
46:17
Thank you very much for asking about that.
46:20
Yes, we have retained A barrister and she is working
46:24
towards attracting thousands of people who want to put their
46:29
name to the end of a letter before claim which is to be sent
46:34
to the government's solicitors. And this letter will list all
46:38
the legal objections and ethical objections to having fluoride
46:44
added to drinking water. And all the laws we can find
46:47
counteract the one permitting law, which is the Water Industry
46:52
Act 1991, where the government has the power to order a water
46:58
treatment company to to add hexafluorosalicic acid to their
47:05
treated water. And the water company cannot
47:08
refuse. Before the instruction is given,
47:13
the government has to go through a three month public
47:16
consultation of the area to be fluoridated.
47:20
And these public consultations are absolutely abysmal because
47:24
there's very little publicity given.
47:26
The national media for some reason doesn't want to know
47:29
about telling people about their public consultation.
47:32
And the regional papers are also constrained for whatever reason.
47:37
I have no idea who's doing the restraining.
47:40
I've got an A slight guess that it might be something to do with
47:45
government and its establishment.
47:48
All right, I'll come clean. I think really the government
47:50
and the establishment are definitely telling national and
47:54
regional media do not publicise this particular public
47:59
consultation. So the public consultations this
48:03
time around, when morph E 1.6 million people are now destined
48:07
to become fluoridated and it'll take a few years for this to
48:12
happen. They have to do contracts, they
48:14
have to go out to tend to get the equipment to put them in
48:16
place and then to do an assessment of how the equipment
48:20
is working. In the meantime, we're hoping
48:24
that our letter before claim will be populated with lots and
48:27
lots of names of our claimants who want to challenge the
48:32
government. Now being a claimant on the
48:35
letter before claim costs nothing apart from an admin fee
48:40
to make a contract with the barrister.
48:44
There's no possibility of any adverse costs because this is
48:48
not a court case. This is a pre court case and our
48:52
claimants can withdraw from the action after the letter before
48:57
claim has been answered by the solicitors.
49:00
If they they don't want to go to court and they're concerned
49:03
about losing their livelihood or their money or their their house
49:08
or anything like that. They don't have to, they don't
49:12
have to stay with us. But we do need their names on
49:15
the letter before claim. That's so important.
49:18
So we're waiting for the requisite number of people to
49:22
come forward and then we can send the letter.
49:25
That's the first part. Now if we have admission by the
49:31
government solicitors that it's a medicine, then I think we
49:36
would win without having to go to court.
49:38
The chances are though, the government's not going to admit
49:41
that fluoridated water is a medicine.
49:43
But we do have 3 precedents worldwide and a British standard
49:48
which admit that fluoridated water is a prophylactic, A
49:52
preventative, a medicine. And if that's the case, then you
49:56
can't be drinking water. And if it can't be drinking
49:59
water, then there are no guidelines.
50:01
So we basically then go down the pathway of saying A is proven,
50:06
therefore B is proven, never C&D&E is proven.
50:09
So first of all, we've got to get proof or admission that it
50:13
is a medicine and that's our main aim.
50:16
Brilliant. So you're looking for people who
50:19
are in a fluoridated area already or who are threatened.
50:22
So this 1.6 million who are, I mean we took part in that public
50:27
consultation because this is the campaign that we run to, we ran
50:30
last year to try to encourage as many people to submit as
50:33
possible. And I think it was a really well
50:38
responded to campaign and I think lots and thousands of
50:41
people wrote into the public consultation to say no.
50:46
So you're saying that basically that was, that was just passed
50:49
anyway, the, the, the government or the didn't take any notice of
50:55
the multiple objections to that proposal to fluidate the
51:00
Northeast. And they are now under the,
51:04
under the threat that this will now happen over the next few
51:07
years. So we need those 1.6 million
51:09
people to sign up to this class action because presumably the
51:14
more signatures you get, the more claimants you get on the on
51:19
the letter before action, the stronger your case.
51:22
Is that how it works? Correct.
51:24
Yes, when it came to the jobs, not jabs, our barrister got
51:28
thousands and thousands and thousands of signatures or
51:31
people from who are employed by the NHS.
51:35
Well of course everybody in the NHS was up in arms.
51:38
They didn't want to lose their jobs, they didn't want to get
51:40
the job. So they all rallied to the call
51:43
and they were all accessible via email or via their trade unions,
51:48
if you like. In our case, all our people that
51:52
we would like to contact, they're all scattered over the
51:55
Northeast. And they didn't get to hear
51:58
about the public consultation because it wasn't in the paper
52:02
newspapers. It was in the electronic
52:04
newspaper. And it appeared on the first day
52:07
and that was it. And that was the Monday before
52:09
they all went on Easter holiday. So everybody was really getting
52:13
ready. Who was going to have time to
52:15
read an electronic paper? No, it was really very badly
52:20
done and almost deliberately in my view.
52:24
Also at the same time as they didn't get to find out, 300
52:30
organisations with vested interest in fluoridation or
52:34
marginal interest were told individually by email by the
52:40
Department of Health. And of course they, they, they
52:43
made up the the numbers of people who were who submitted to
52:49
the consultation who were in favour of fluoridation.
52:53
So that actually basically changed the the whole situation.
52:57
So basically the vast majority of people in the Northeast are
53:01
still completely oblivious as to the fact that any consultation
53:04
took place and that now that this this policy has been passed
53:08
and that their water is going to change within the next few
53:11
years. And that's why we're going on to
53:14
podcasts and talking to alternative media to try to get
53:19
the message through to people in the North East that they can
53:22
still take part in objecting to what's happening.
53:26
What we'll do is we'll put on the show notes all the links to
53:30
the relevant websites where people can sign up and find more
53:34
information out, but ideally get their names down to support this
53:38
class action. Because obviously, you know,
53:40
it's a tiny fee compared to a lifetime of expensive measures
53:45
you're going to have to take in those regions to actually just
53:49
keep your drinking water safe for your consumption.
53:52
So I think it's a, it's, you know, well worth the small
53:56
investment in supporting this case.
53:58
And, and the more people we get this, the, the cheaper the cost
54:00
would be. So we're coming to the end of
54:03
our time. Is there anything important that
54:05
we haven't discussed? Yes, thank you very much for
54:08
asking. In America, because of the court
54:11
case ruling that fluoride poses an unreasonable risk to the IQ
54:16
of children, the Surgeon General of Florida, Joseph Leopardo,
54:23
came in out on record in December in the public statement
54:29
to say that he was going to stop fluoridation of Florida.
54:33
In May, a bill was passed and signed in to law by by Governor
54:40
DeSantis and that means that from the 1st of July, nobody in
54:47
Florida has been fluoridated as 23 million people.
54:54
As such a wonderful, wonderful thing to have happened.
54:56
At the same time, in Utah, they've also passed into law an
55:02
act which prevents fluoridation, and that's another 3.5 million
55:07
people who have now become released from fluoridation. 60
55:12
more communities in the United States, two in Canada, 2 in
55:16
Australia and one hopeful in New Zealand have also been released
55:21
from fluoridation. So in total, about 28 million
55:25
people are no longer fluoridated.
55:28
And that's basically a huge, a huge amount of people.
55:33
And that's just two states. Now the, the political will in
55:37
America is to stop fluidation. So the Secretary of State for
55:40
health is pushing pretty hard behind the scenes for other
55:46
states to, to legislate against fluidation.
55:50
And if that's happening, why is it not happening in the UK?
55:54
It's because I believe it's an embedded policy of the
55:57
establishment to fluidate us. Well, we're going to have to get
56:04
rid of the embedded policy by giving a little push in that
56:07
direction. Well, let's just hope that
56:10
what's happening in America will will sound the death knell for
56:12
fluoridation of water all around the world.
56:15
So where can people find your material and support your
56:18
campaigns? At what?
56:19
Websites or social media? So my website is UKF ffa.org.uk
56:29
and we've got the button there to, to link to the the
56:35
barristers website as it were. And the barristers website
56:39
iskingfisherjustice.co.uk. You can go straight there if you
56:43
want to and just register. It's a small admin fee, but
56:48
there's no other financial costs at all.
56:51
And you can get the information on the, on the action on, on my
56:56
website on, on or you can actually look at the Kingfisher
57:02
website as well to find more information.
57:05
Fantastic. We'll put all of those links up
57:08
in the show notes. So thank you so much Joy for
57:11
giving us your time and sharing your knowledge and wisdom.
57:14
And I'm sure our viewers and listeners have learned a huge
57:17
amount today and we'll be empowered by this information.
57:20
And I think it's one of these many areas where we, and
57:23
particularly our children face serious threats to our health
57:26
and well being from crazy public health policies, which are
57:30
exposing us to completely unnecessary toxins such as
57:32
fluoride. So I just wish you so much, you
57:36
know, good, good fortune with your legal action.
57:39
And please do keep us updated as the case proceeds.
57:43
Thank you very much. Thank you.