Latest / Stuff You Should Know / Operation Paul Bunyan

Transcript

Operation Paul Bunyan · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Chuck and it's just us and that's okay because we
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: can support one another and ourselves. We're grown men and
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: we feel good about things, especially us, well not especially,
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: but equally with us. And this is TI.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, you told me, you sent me a text
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: very early that said put on your big boy pants today.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because Jerry's not showing up.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I got them out my breeches.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Are they green jeans?
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: Oh? I've got on green cords?
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: No, I do?
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: We do?
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: These are kind of my favorites. Actually, these forest green
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: chords great for this time of year.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I don't remember those. I remember some like brownish topey,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: kind of shiny tope ones. Am I making up?
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: No? I have chords of many colors, much like Joseph.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Are they the thick whales or the thin whales?
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: The thins?
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I don't get into the thick stuff anymore. That was nineties, Chuck.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Probably, Yeah, but I'll bet they're going to make a comeback.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: I bet you.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, I think we should start talking about this because
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: we probably have some non regular listeners who have military backgrounds,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: who are like, what the hell is this? Who want
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: to hear about Operation Paul Bunyan, which is the point
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: of all this. And I'm guessing just from the title,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: there's probably a lot of people in the military who
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: know what we're talking about. Already. It seems to be
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: a fairly widespread, widely known incident that took place in
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six. We're just going to call it an
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: incident at the DMV DMZ that was totally unintentional, an
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: incident at the DMZ. That's where we're going to start
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: out calling it. Well, eventually, maybe refine that over time,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: but we should probably talk about what the DMZ is
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: in the first place. Right.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And by the way, I'm looking real quick, because
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: I could have sworn this probably came from someone, but
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I usually make a note and I'm not seeing that.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: But I am seeing that pop Tarts came from Nelson Reynolds.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: So sorry for that, Nelson.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Sorry Nelson, ah ha.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: But yeah, the DMZ, I guess we should set up
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: just sort of the deal between North Korea and South
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Korea and the United States post World War Two was
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: the Soviets and the Americans got together and said, all right,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Korea and Korea obviously got involved and said, we're going
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: to be two nations. Let's confuse everybody and call the
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: communists North Korea inside the Democratic People's Republic of Korea
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: and called the democratic South Korean side just the Republic
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: of Korea. And if you've ever heard of the thirty
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: eighth parallel, that's the famous dividing line between these two.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And North Korea and South Korea got divided after
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: World War Two because there was a power vacuum and
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: the Communists were fighting in the North and they were
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: fighting that US friendly South Koreans, and the North Koreans
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: were like, this can't sting it. We want the whole peninsula,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: and they invaded and the Korean War broke out, like
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: you said, and it lasted for three years. I always
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: thought it was Americans who were fighting in Korea, but
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: it turns out there were plenty of American troops, mostly
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: American troops, but they were part of a UN command
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: that was actually fighting the North along with the South Koreans. Yeah.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I think it's like ninety percent American forces. And you
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: said it lasted three years. I think the Korean War
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: is one of those that technically never ended true officially,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: because I mean that's kind of one of those nitpicky
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: trivia questions. That's a good one that you know, there
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: was never an official treaty ending the war. They came
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: to a truce or an armistice because of a stalemate
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: basically after three years. But I think you know on
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: the books, the Korean War never technically ended.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's my understanding too. Well. Good point. So
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: one of the big things about this armistice agreement was
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: that it was like, okay, you guys, we need some
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: separation here, and they literally separated North Korea from South Korea.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Like you said, the dividing line runs roughly along the
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: thirty eighth parallel, But on either side of that border
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: of North and South Korea there's a buffer zone, the
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: demilitarized Zone the DMZ I was referring to before. I
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: think it's two point four miles wide total one point
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: two miles on either side, and that is like effectively
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: the de facto border between North and South. No one's
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: supposed to come into that no man's zone, no man's land,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: the DMZ. But inside the DMZ. There's a little tiny
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: village called the panmu JOm and I know of that
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: from Billy Joel.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I knew he was going to come up.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: That was it. And then some of the other Korean
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: town names that came up, like Kaesong and all this.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: I'm like, how do I know these? How are they
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: so unfamiliar? And then I realized watching mash with my dad,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And it's this little tiny militarized spot inside
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: the demilitarized zone, and it's it's where North Korea and
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: South Korea actually come together physically, can come together in
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: this what's called the JSA, the Joint Security Area.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so if they over the years have to meet
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: to negotiate anything, that's where they meet. That's where the
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: governments go. There's a very famous bridge there separating the two,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: the Bridge of No Return. It's very dramatic if you
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: look at pictures of it. Yeah, it's literally like, you know,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: on one side is one thing, on the other side
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: as the other. And that's where they do prisoner exchanges
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And these days, you know, it's well,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: largely because of this incident, I think it's not the
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: same as it was back then.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: No, it's very separate.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Back then, the Joint Security Area was you know, there
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: were it was jointly patrolled, like you know, North Koreans
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: and South Korean soldiers and American soldiers were patrolling the
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: area at the same time that face to face contact.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: They would try to intimidate one another. They would you know,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: curse at one another, maybe spit at one another. The
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Americans would play hopscotch on the bridge. The North Koreans
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: would you know, drive a truck really fast toward them
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: and slam on the brakes. They would sneak up and
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: bang on their checkpoint barracks at night and stuff like that.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: It was crazy to think that these kind of shenanigans
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: were going on without any further you know, sort of
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: war breaking out. They all kind of seemingly took it
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: in stride.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Well that's what their orders were. The UN Command troops
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: and the Americans in particular, had specific orders to like,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: if you had to defend yourself physically because you were
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: getting beat up, okay, but you did not shoot. You
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: had to be shot at to draw your side arm,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: and that was the most powerful weapon that anyone patrolling
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: the Joint security area had They were often outfitted with
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: axe handles, maybe baton's, and that was about it. So
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: the Americans had strict orders not to take the bait,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: and North Korean troops had essentially strict orders to provoke
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: the Americans into attacking so that they could start a
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: war again and it would be the American's fault exactly.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: And this came largely from the guy in charge. I mean,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: you know, it came from on high, I'm sure, but
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: it was filtered down through Captain Arthur Bonifas. He was
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: a Vietnam vet. He was the JSA company commander. He
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: was thirty three years old. He was a big dude.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: He was six' three, apparently super, popular like a father
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: figure as far as his command. Went and the camp
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: there at JSA's Name Camp boniface after, him so you
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: may see where this is. Headed but, he you, know
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: he believed in standing your ground but not taking the.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Bait like you, said like he wanted big guys down.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: There he wanted to kind of, intimidate but the orders
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: were always to back off if it came to. Blows
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: and sometimes it would like you, know you could get
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: beat up or something and it would not escalate, further
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: which is just crazy to think.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: About it is it's hard to. Imagine you said that
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: bonifass was into intimidating without you, know doing, it like
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: just being physically. Intimidating, yeah if you were assigned to PATROL.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Jsa this is a really really high stakes area still is.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Today Bill clinton toured it in the nineties and went
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: as far as out under The bridge Of No, return
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: and he said later that That Pamu jam is the
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: scariest place on. Earth that's a president saying that he's
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: probably been to some scary places and at least knows about.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Them so that really says quite a. Bit so if
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: you're assigned to this, area it's a big. Deal and
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: so you had to be over six feet, tall but
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: you also had to be laid back by nature and
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: rather cool, headed like even when, provoked like they really
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: tested the people who were a signed.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: There, yeah they'd walk up and they'd slap you and
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: see what you.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Did they would apparently while they were interviewing you that
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: you'd have no. Idea they'd just start shouting at you
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: out of the out of nowhere to see how you.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Responded were they Really, Yeah, Oh. Wow, yeah there's a
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: really that's a great chance to shout. Out there's an
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: atavist article Called axes Of evil written By Josh dean
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: and it's it's a really great detailed look at this
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: whole thing that we're talking about. Today that would be.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Axe yes in this, case right, yep very clever, hmm a.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: Bit of a uh what do you call?
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: It it's we're recording, early SO i can't think of
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: the word the. Foreshadowing, yeah maybe that's a play on
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: words a. Pun foreshadowing is probably Yet. OKAY i think
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: people are probably concerned BECAUSE i couldn't think of.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: FORESHADOWING i couldn't think of chemistry the other day and
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: intro of me crazy.
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: Oh, Man, yeah aging is real, yeah and a, privilege
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: as they, Say uh so before this incident they were
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: about to talk about, there there was one example we
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: should mention When North korean troops were kind of must
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: in the hair of a soldier Named William henderson and he.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Did not take it.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: WELL i guess he was into his hair or. Something
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: he got, mad took a swing and got A i
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: guess a throat chop or, something and got a busted.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Larynx and such That boniface wrote his wife and, said
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: our mission here is to take the verbal abuse to
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: kicking the, shoving but to not let it go any.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Further Major henderson lost his cool and blew. It it's
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: a natural, reaction but he should have known.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Better, yeah and it was a big. Deal SO i
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: also saw That henderson was provoked by a journalist who
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: spat at. Him When henderson stood, up the journalists hit,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: him and then Finally henderson hit him, back and all
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: of a sudden a bunch Of North korean troops jumped on.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Him but the fact that he took the bait was
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: a big deal because he was a. Major that means
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: you're a big deal at a camp, already like you're
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: fairly high. Up so him fighting back Was, yeah that
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: was a big. Deal.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Uh maybe an early early ish break here seems like
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: a good dividing.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: LINE i think we.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Should, well we'll take a break and we'll come back
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: and talk about the tree that started the whole, thing all, Right.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: All, Right josh didn't pick up on my bad pun
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: of the dividing. Line oh what was? It AND i,
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: said it's a dividing, line like you, know the thirty eighth.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Parallel it just is so natural that it's. BAD i
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: totally missed. It it's also early for me.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: TOO i couldn't tell by the.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Way that short stuff that you sent that we're going
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: to record later had a bunch of puns in, it
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: AND i didn't know if that was intentional or.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: NOT i can think of, one and it was. Intentional
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: there were a. Couple, okay you got to point them.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Out, yeah, boy what a little tease of a whole different.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Episode you're such a. Tease so all, right now we
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: get to The Paul. Bunyan what instigated The Paul bunyan
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: incident or? Operation which was this tree that you Mentioned
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: that was a. Tree it was a poplar tree near
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: The bridge Of No. Return and the thing you need
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: to know about this, tree, well there's a few, things
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: but one is that it blocked the view of the
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: line of sight between these two un command. Checkpoints and
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: that was a big deal because you needed an open
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: line of site between these checkpoints because you, know there
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: were incidents of like kidnapping and stuff like that and other,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: shenanigans and you just you had to have that line
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: of sight.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: OPEN. Yep so they said the unc was, like we
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: got to get rid of this.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Tree so they sent a couple of Unarmed South korean
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: workers down there to just sort of figure out the
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: best way to remove. It and the first sort of
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: reaction was The North korean guards chased them. Away so
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: that was sort of the line in the sand was
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: get out of, here get away from that.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: Tree.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah apparently they tried again a couple days later and
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: got rained, out and then finally On august, eighteenth they were, like,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: okay we're just gonna go ahead and do. This those
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: first guys got chased, off so we're gonna essentially assign
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: a few men to escort. THEM i think a fifteen
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: man team went over On august, eighteenth led By Captain,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: bonifas and they started pruning the, tree just to. Prune
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: at this, point, yeah they're just pruning it. Back they
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: just want to make sure that even during summer they
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: can See checkpoint, three the loneliest outpost in the, world,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: because like you, said it's very dangerous to man. That
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: so they're just pruning it, right and very, quickly The
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: North koreans came over The bridge Of No return because,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: remember mind bogglingly The Joint Security area was, open like
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: the border didn't exist in The Joint security, area So
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: North koreans AND Un command could just go wherever they.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Want so The North koreans show up at this, site
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: at the poplar tree while it's being, pruned and they're
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: led By Lieutenant. Pacchoule he was known As Lieutenant bulldog
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: by THE Un command troops because he was very, confrontational
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: had provoked confrontation in the past plenty of, times and
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: so he showed. Up so you just immediately knew that
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: this could go south pretty. Quickly.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah and apparently he, said you, know they wanted to
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: keep that tree pristine Because Kim il sung personally planted
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: it and nourished it and it's growing under his. Supervision so,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: apparently or at least they said it was a special
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: tree and to stand.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Down, yes Because Kim il sung was the he was
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the first deer. Leader Kim jong un is his. Grandson. Yeah,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: yeah and so the idea that deer leader planted that.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: TREE i don't know if that's. TRUE i never saw.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: THAT i just saw it like stated here or. There
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: but at the very Least pacchool said, that, Right, Yeah.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure IF i buy, that given what we
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: now have sort of suspected about this being a, provocation
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: which we'll get, to but that sounds to me, like,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: hey let's tell him, that you know it's a special.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Tree, Yeah like he's like puck chool seemed like the
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: kind who would just load you up on bs just
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: to mess with.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: You.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah so he called for even more. REINFORCEMENTS i
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: think about thirty More North korean guards showed. Up he
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Ordered Captain boniface to, stop but he turned his back on,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: him WHICH i think, was you, know a pretty big
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: insult on top of everything. Else and as the story,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: goes one of The american soldiers Saw poc take off
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: his wristwatch and put it in his, pocket which IS
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: i guess a cain to Like pansie taking off his
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: leather jacket like it's about to, happen and tried to Warn,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: boniface but it was too late by that, point And
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: pack ordered the attack basically by, saying LIKE i think he,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: said kill the, bastards.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Right. YEAH i saw in nineteen seven twenty Seven Army
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: War college report on the, incident and that's what they,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: said So i'm prone to believe them, yeah but he
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: said In korean, obviously. Right but right after that they
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: the men attacked and ACTUALLY i Saw Lieutenant pocchoul Assaulted Captain,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: bonifas who had again his back To. Pocchool, yeah he
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: hit him with the karate chop in the back of
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: his neck and Dropped Captain boniface and very very, Sadly
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Captain boniface never got to his feet. Again, Yeah, like
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: immediately he was set upon BY i saw five to
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Six North korean troops just started being beaten by. Them
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: AND i guess the people who were cutting the tree
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: had a couple of, axes these, civilians and they dropped
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: their axes and, ran and The North korean troops picked
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: up the. Axes and here is where the reason that
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: this is called THE dmz ax incident. Begins that's.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Right So boniface was bludgeoned to death by these guys attacking.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Him and you can watch this like it was on.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Film it's very. Chaotic you can't really GET i, mean
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: it's kind of from far, away so you can't get
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of, detail, right but you, know there are
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: still shots in film of this stuff going. On so
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: he was bludgeoned First Lieutenant Mark barrett was also beaten to.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: Death he was chased.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Down over a retaining wall and you know sort of
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: THE i, mean it's sad enough as it, is But
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: bonifas was due to go home to his wife and
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: three kids in three, days so it was made, it you,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: know sort of especially.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Brutal, yeah and not like for a, visit like this
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: was his last three days In. Korea, yeah where he
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: was murdered by an axe By North korean. Troops it's
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: almost like a, Parody like it's almost too crazy to
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: believe that that's how close he was to leave In.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Korea he was also going to be promoted to major,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: too like he was his life was like looking up
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: when he was.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: Murdered, yeah really.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Sad so this was a really really big. Deal as
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: you can, imagine this is the first time that any
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: un command true hoops and Any americans had been killed
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: In korea since the end of The Korean. War it
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: was a huge provocation and there was a big question
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: now on the, table what is The United states military
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: going to? Do, yeah that two of its officers were
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: murdered by acts By North korean troops totally. Unprovoked this
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: was one hundred. Percent The North korean's doing this so
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: much their fault, that like you, said it almost seems
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: like it was possibly set. Up we'll talk about that
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: a little bit. Later and so there was a, big
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: a big question that needed to be answered and answered really,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: fast and that was how are we going to respond to?
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: This, Yeah so on THE us side at the, time
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: we Had Henry kissinger as The secretary Of state Under
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: President Gerald. Ford like we, mentioned it was seventy, six
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: so it was the election year Between ford And Jimmy,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: carter And ford learned about the incident when and he
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: was at The Republican National, convention and obviously As secretary Of,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: State kissinger was kind of in charge of figuring out
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: what to. Do calls together The Washington Special Action, group
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: which was a task force that was formed in sixty
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: nine out Of vietnam to deal with like sort of
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: any emergencies like this that came. Up and It's Henry.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Kissinger so he's, like would we should bomb the, Barracks
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: like he wants to flatten the barracks of the guards
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: that attack them and react really strongly and sinto you,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: know a big message that this will not stand, YEAH.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I, MEAN i can kind of understand that. Impulse he
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: was apparently the only one in The Special Action group
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: that wanted to respond with a violent, action and the
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: reason why was because this is such a flashpoint still,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: today but at this, TIME i, mean it was like
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: we were still in the middle of The Cold. War
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: so to, us not only was This North, korea this
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: is Also china and THE ussr right behind. Them. Right oh,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah so if you sent a missile into THE jsa
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: against The North, koreans there was a better than even
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: chance probably that you might spark a Nuclear World war. Three,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: unluckily cooler heads. Prevailed But kissinger he was probably a little.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: PARANOID i would. Guess he's very widely, reviled including by,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: me So i'm pretty sure he was at least a little.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: PARANOID i, mean he started out in The nixon, administration
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: for goodness, sake but he was Also his position was
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: also that this was a provocation by The north to
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Test america's resolve because it was an election, year they
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: were trying to interfere with the. Election to make the
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: point Of Gerald ford's, Opponent Jimmy, carter who was, saying
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: we need to get troops out Of. Korea we don't
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: have any business being there. Anymore So kissinger thought this
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Was North korea doing this to basically show that The
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: americans didn't belong here, anymore just to get out wasn't worth, it. Basically,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah AND i get the.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: IDEA i, MEAN i was but five at the, time
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: not super into politics, yet BUT i get the idea
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: that Getting american troops out Of korea was probably a
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: pretty popular idea That carter was laying.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Out, yeah and you Know.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: Vietnam, yeah, well And kissinger was still ticked off About.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Vietnam so he was, like if we don't do, this
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: it's going to send a message that to Other asian
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: countries and THE ussr In china that we have no
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: resolve and that we're going to stand. Down and you,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: know he wanted his Guy forward back in there, Obviously
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: so he was out, voted like you, said, thankfully but
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: he was, like all, right we still need to show a,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: force like we need to do. Something and the one
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: thing that everybody in the room agreed, on even if
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: it WAS i, MEAN i know it was somewhat, strategical
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: but it was also. Symbolic they were like we're cutting
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: that gd tree. Down no matter what anyone else, Says
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: we're going to cut that thing. Down and they were
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: all like haharump for.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Umph so, yeah they, Decided, okay we're not going to
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: actually destroy, anything we're not going to fire any, missiles
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: we're not going to kill, anybody but that doesn't mean
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: we're not going to show them that we could do
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: that if we wanted, to, Right and what they came
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: up with was known As Operation Paul, bunyan which is
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: one of the better names of any Operation i've ever. Heard, yeah.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Totally it was under command Of General Richard. Stillwell he
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: was the commander in chief of THE un command, there
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: and the, message like you, said was to sort of,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: intimidate show that we could do something if we wanted.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: To they had forty thousand troops over there that WERE i,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Mean dave says here it was raised To defcon, three
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: which is somewhat counterintuitive because it's raising a number even
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: though it's being, lowered, right.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah right in the middle between one and, five
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: and one's the. Highest it is very.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Confusing, yeah so you're raising deaf, coon but the number goes.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Lower it took me a second to figure that. Out
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: BUT i have seen, wargame SO i know how it.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Works and a digit see The house Of. Dynamite have
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: you seen that, yet the New Catherine bigelow. Movie, no
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: IT'S i think it's. ON i think it's A netflix
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: movie about sort of a modern you, know what would
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: happen if nuclear arms were, Launched like what would we?
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Do so it's a very tense thing and there's lots
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: of deaf con talk.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: AND i liked a lot of. It, YEAH i might
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: say THAT.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: I can get. THAT i think she's directly funded by THE.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Cia On Catherine, Bigelow, yeah.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: She definitely has her, niche you. Know, yeah for, SURE
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: i would recommend. IT i didn't care for the third.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Act that, much But house Of. DYNAMITE i think that's
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: what it's. Called.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Great, Nay, YEAH i mean you Get Idris elba as the,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: president so that's always a good.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: Move, Oh i'll say.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: That, wait you're talking about. That he's in it With John.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Cena John cena is The American president And Idris elba's
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: The Prime minister and they actually end up being like action.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Heroes, No Idris elba is The American, President John cena
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: is he's nowhere to be.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Found i'm thinking of something you think it's.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: About, Anyway Operation Paul bunyan is set up. FOR i,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: MEAN i Know i'm Saying, bungyan but that's just because
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: my weird. Accent It's. Bunyan august twenty, first this is
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: three days after The axe. Attack and what they were
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: going to do was mobilize sort of the largest mobilization
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: of our forces and defenses on The korean peninsula since
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: that fifty Three armistice with some pretty heavy artillery and
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: airships and sea.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Ships.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: YEAH i, mean remember When Captain boniface went to escort
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the tree trimmers there were fifteen. People now there's eight
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: hundred men involved in this tree trimming and it's not
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: even a tree trimming at this. Point right, now they're
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: aiming to cut the tree.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: Down, yeah they hate this tree at this. Point they
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: want that tree.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Dead especially if they think that dear leader planted. It,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: right this tree has now become super. Symbolic blood has
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: been shed to prune this. Tree and you said that
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: there was a ton of artillery armaments as part of
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: the show of, force and, boy you got it.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Right, YEAH i, mean they had flying overhead and clear
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: view so everyone could, see you, know what was going.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: On they had Twenty huey. Helicopters they had Twelve cobra,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: GUNSHIPS b fifty two, bombers tank, BUSTER f Four phantom
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: fighter JETS f one to eleven strategic. BOMBS i mean
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: they're pulling out all the stops and off the. Coast
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: they had THE USSS uss DID I sa three s's
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: or TWO uss, midway four frigates and a cruiser and
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: aircraft taking off flying. OVERHEAD i mean it was a
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: real show of.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: Intimidation.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah THOSE b fifty twos that take the intimidation even
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: further were flying Inside North korean airspace not too far From.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Peonyang they were also strapped with. Nukes there were nuclear
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: missiles in this theater, now not just THE b fifty
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: twos carrying, them but THOSE f one to elevens were
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: also carrying nuclear warheads as. Missiles so the idea is,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: here as part Of Operation Paul bunyan is to trim
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: the tree or cut the tree down now and also
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Show North korea, like do you do not want to
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: mess with? Us DO i ever do anything like that?
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Again and to be prepared that If North korea did do,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: something if they were provoked by this tree cutting, down
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: that they would just be essentially wiped off the map
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: as a as a. Nation, yeah for.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Sure and you know the whole AFTER i was studying all,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: this right in the middle of, IT i got weirdly
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: very sad for this.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Tree.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: YEAH i saw that tree in all of. It i've
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: seen other people refer to as the poor.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: TREE i, know because in the middle of all this,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: STUFF i, mean these you, know bombers are flying, overhead
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: and these troops are massing these heavy artillery on each
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: side of the, bridge AND i just picture, that you.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: KNOW i Know i'm.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: ANTHROPOMORPHISING i always say that. Wrong say it for me.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Anthropomorphizing you, said you just said so, lowly.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: That's, right this.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Tree BUT i just pictured this poor tree sitting, there like,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: MAN i JUST i just want to be a.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: TREE i WISH i were a.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: SHRUB i want to Start World war three or be cut.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: DOWN i know that tree did not get their.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Wish oh grow, SLOWER i promise.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Right, HERE i can just shed a few.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Limbs So Major General john Singlab dave helped us with.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: This found a quote that just showed how serious this,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: was and he said it was my estimate shared by
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: many of the, staff that the operation stood a fifty
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: to fifty chance of starting a, war and that would
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: have Been World war, three.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Absolutely a nuclear. War this tree cutting operation could have
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Sparked World war, three no. Joke, again that is how
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: tense things are at THE dmz even still to this.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: Day all, right should we take a.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Break, yeah let's take a, break and then we're going
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: to talk About Operation Paul bunyan. Commencing, So, chuck this
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: is not a reckless. Thing as a matter of, fact
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: this was really. Calculated you Mentioned General, stilwell who was
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: in charge of Every american troop In. Korea he personally
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: came up with this plan and he was not a,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: warhawk but he also it was a really good, plan
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: especially if all of the troops like followed orders and
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: nobody tried anything provocative and nobody took any bait from
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: The North. Koreans it was a very good. Plan but
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: The United states was not reckless in. This in carrying
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: out this, plan they actually got in touch With china
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: and THE ussr and basically basically, said, hey you, know
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: we're thinking about doing something like, this And china and
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: the USS a both signaled that they were not going
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: to do anything If North korea started, fighting That North
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: korea was on their. OWN i think they've blinked twice
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: and pulled their left ear lobe and then touched the
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: bill of their, cap and The United states is, like,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: oh we. Gotcha so now it was a little less,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: tense even though it could still start a war With North.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Korea at least we had this idea That china and
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: THE ussr wouldn't immediately. Intervene.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: YEAH i immediately thought Of Doctor, strangelove AND i could.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Just Hear Peter sellers on the phone, going.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Well, dmitri you see there's this tree that's, Perfect it's so.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: GREAT i think we didn't mention too that the actual
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: tree cutting was going to be done by unarmed military.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: Engineers that they sent.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Forward.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: YEAH i, mean the fact that they weren't armed is
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: kind of neither here nor, there because there were so many.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: ARMS i think the people actually on the bridge supposedly
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: just had like, these you, know clubs and axe handles
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: and side, arms but both sides of the bridge were
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: stocked with heavy artillery from both. Sides AND i also
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: saw that The Korean South korean faction that was assisting,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: us they rolled in and blocked the, bridge AND i
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: don't think they were supposed to have anything more than just,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: pistols but they unloaded a bunch of sand bags and
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: had a bunch OF m sixteens hidden that they took.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Out, yeah they also showed that they had claymore mines
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: land mines strapped to their chests and they had the
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: detonators in their other hand and were daring The North
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: koreans to come get them because they would blow themselves
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: up in The North. Koreans and this had not been
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: passed by THE Un Command force or anything like. That
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: no one had any idea that The South korean commandos
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: were going to do something like, that because, again we're
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: trying to not let this, be you, know any more
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: tense than it already. Is and all of a sudden
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: there's essentially suicide bombers on the, scenes like mocking The North.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Koreans so that definitely altered things a little. Bit playmore With.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Claymore oh, YEAH i forgot. THAT i knew that from
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: being a. Kid where where'd you hear? That is that
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: just from the military and it trickled.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: Out, NO i thought it Was The, simpsons wasn't.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: It. NO i think it was like a maybe in
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: a rambow or something. Like there's no WAY i would
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: have known that as a.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Kid, Otherwise, OKAY i can't remember WHERE i heard it,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: first but at any, rate it's a very tense.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: SCENE i think we've setting that.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Up and, again you, know we had orders not to,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: provoke like our mission is to cut that tree, down
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: but all hell's going to break loose if anything. Happens
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: and like you, Mentioned North korea had some pretty decent
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: incentive to kind of start some. Fighting they didn't Want
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: World war, three but they wanted, to you, know they
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Wanted South korea still at this.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: Point.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah plus Also Kim il, sung The Dear, leader the
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: First Dear, leader he was A communist guerrilla fighting The
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: japanese In World War. Two he was battle hardened and. Tested,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: yeah so he was totally into. Fighting he wasn't like
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: a dove or a diplomat at. All.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah AND i think we didn't mention too that the
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: previous tree, trimming supposedly we had told them that this
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: was going to, happen and so the whole provocation to begin,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: with if they knew about it ahead of, time then
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: they came down there with that, knowledge because they didn't
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: raise any. Objections apparently that we were, like, hey were
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: going to trim this tree so we can have a
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: better line of sight and you'll have a better line of,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: sight and no one said, anything you, know to the.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Contrary so the whole thing was really provocation by The North.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: Koreans.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely that was the first time When Captain bonifass
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: And Lieutenant barrett got, murdered.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly which again made it sort of seem
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: like it was planned to begin.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: With, yeah for. Sure so at oh seven hundred, hours
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: that's seven am On august twenty, first nineteen seventy, Six
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Operation Paul bunyan, commences and like you, SAID i mean
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: basically what we described there was there was an order
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: not to. ENGAGE i mean, essentially if The North koreans
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: started unloading with sniper fire or machine, guns then, yes
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: we're going to. Engage and it was a very tense,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: operation but they got in. There the military engineers cut
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: the tree essentially down to a ten foot. Stump they
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: were USING i Read vietnam era issue chainsaws that weren't
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: in very good, shape so it took him a little.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: While but it took him about forty five minutes to
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: complete the whole. Thing and they should have sent out Leather.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Face he should.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Have he could have gotten that done in ten.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Minutes, Yeah but they left this big stump with a
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: two like it was branching at the, top and one
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: of the soldiers who was at the scene said that
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: it had looked like somebody raising their arms in, surrender
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: like The North koreans were. Surrendering, YEAH i saw.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: That kissinger tried to get a carving artist in there
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: to shape it in the form of the middle.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Finger.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Right those guys are, great the chainsaw. Artists, Man, yeah
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: it's pretty. AMAZING i don't know if the intent was
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: ever to cut down the entire. TREE i don't think
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: that that was the, plan even in the second, time
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: even In Operation Paul. Bunyan but they left this. Stump
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: everybody on THE us side just went back. Out they just.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Withdrew the operation was, successful but things were still quite.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Tense it's not it wasn't clear Whether North korea was
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: going to respond, still just because the operation was done
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: and now there weren't a bunch of Troops america or
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: THE Un. Command they just kept patrolling The Joint Security
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: area like it was any other day because that's what
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: it was supposed to. Be even though this operation had,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: commenced it was now, over so things were supposed to
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: go back to, normal but we still had no idea
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: What North korea was going to.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Do, so you, know pretext to this was they were
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: very unapologetic about the whole incident leading up to, that
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: like After Captain boniface And Lieutenant barrett were, killed but
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: After Paul bunyan they thankfully backed off that there wasn't
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: like an expressed, apology But President Kim il sung did
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: express regret for those, deaths so they clearly were sort
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: of backing down at this, point you, know much to everyone's.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Relief and it was this incident that basically everyone was, like,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: hey you know, what.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: Maybe this maybe we didn't think this through.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: How this thing operates with these guys all being here
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: in the same place at all, times and so it's
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: set up much differently. Now so the actual line that
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: runs the link of THE dmc is the actual dividing
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: line even through THE gs THE.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Jsa, yeah that dividing, line the military demarcation, line that
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: is the actual border as far AS i, understand Between
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: North korea And South korea with THE dmz buffers on
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: either side of, It and they just ignored it in THE,
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: jsa but then they started enforcing. It so now The
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: North korean troops and THE u And command troops do not,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: intermingle even though their posts are feet away from one. Another,
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: yeah it would be a really big deal for one
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: to attack the other because you would be crossing the.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Border now there's no free fight. Invasion it would be
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: an enormous. Deal it'd be an international. Incident and in,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: fact there was something like that in nineteen eighty. Four
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: there was A soviet exchange student who was on a
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: tour with The North koreans who ran across the border
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: to defect into The west and a firefight started that
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: resulted in the deaths of Three North koreans and ONE
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: u In Command South korean, Soldier and it was a, huge,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: again an international incident because some of The North korean
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: troops had run across the demarcation line to chase after the. Defector,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: yeah for.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Sure so everyone is like pretty happy and considered it
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: a success except For. Kissinger of, course The North koreans
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: back down really, quickly so it really didn't give him
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: any chance during this election year to kind of tout
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: some big victory Of. AMERICA i, mean it was a,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: victory BUT i don't think it was like some huge
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: international news thing he. Wanted he still wanted them to
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: have blown up the barracks or to taken out like
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: a warship or two as like a big show of.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Force so everyone was pretty stoked except For Old.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Henry so they left that poplar tree there as a,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: reminder a monument of. Sorts, actually until the tenth anniversary
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: of the axe murder incident On august, eighteenth nineteen eighty,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: six they pulled the tree, out stump and, all roots and,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: all and replaced it with a Memorial and there's a
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: plaque on it that reads on this spot was located
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: the yellow poplar tree which was the focal point of
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: the axe murders of Two United nations command, officers Kept
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Arthur bonifas And First Lieutenant Mark, barrett who were attacked
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: and killed By North korean guards while supervising a work
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: party trimming the tree on Eighteen august nineteen seventy, six
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: and it's just so plainly put without any flowery language
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: that it also just kind of gets across the horrible
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: absurdity of the whole. Thing, yeah for.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Sure and just a few years, ago in twenty twenty,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: two that was a sort of a.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: Joint show of.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Not, friendship but like maybe we should kind of literally
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: put this to rest by planting a. TREE i think
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: the presidents of the two countries got together in THE
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: jsa to plant a pine tree of, peace and they took,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: turned shoveling soil from each, side watered it with rivers
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: from each, side and the pine tree Of peace became you,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: know and right now is sort of a big symbol
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: of kind of what happened there and maybe let's try
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: and just chill things out a little.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Bit. Yeah what made it even more significant was that
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: The South korean president Moonjay in was actually one of
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: The South korean commandos who took part in. Operation, yeah it's.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Crazy and then there's one other little note THAT i
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: found pretty. Interesting there's a one whole par three well.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: GOLF i don't think you could call it a, course
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: but it's it's like an astro turf part, well a
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: par three that's surrounded by land mines now where the
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: poplar tree used to, be and it's called the most
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: dangerous hole in golf From Sports.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Illustrated, yeah and we never really, said you, know we
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: kind of hinted around that this might have been all
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: planned to begin.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: With and there is circumstantial evidence.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: That suggests that that whole attack was pre planned to begin, with,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: right you, know BECAUSE i mentioned that we had gotten
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: in touch with him and, said, hey we're going to
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: prune this, tree and no one really said, like, no
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: don't do, that and so that attack seemingly came out of.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Nowhere but one big clue, WAS i think three minutes
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: after this incident, Occurred Radio, pyonyang which is The North
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: korean state, radio they broadcast a very biased report on,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: this like right after it. Happened so it seems pretty
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: clear that it was pre, planned but analysis later on
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: seems to indicate that The soviets did not know about
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: it and they were kind of acting on their. Own.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: NO i saw one other piece of circumstantial evidence too
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: that kind of is pretty, definitive is that within five
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: hours there was a non aligned, nation which where the
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: nations during The Cold war who didn't choose. Sides all
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: of them were meeting In, korea and within five, Hours
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: korean delegates were at that meeting handing out memos describing
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: this the axe murders and totally blaming it on The,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: americans like had completely flipped it around in an effort
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: to kind of drum up support to get The americans.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Out so that's it does seem pretty likely that The
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: North koreans planned the axe. Murders, YEAH i, agreed you
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: got anything?
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: Else got nothing?
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Else this is a good, one. Man hats off to
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: the the person or people who suggested, it and maybe
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: listen out for a future random episode where we thank
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: you for.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: IT i couldn't find. IT i might have found this
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: on my.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Own i'll help. You, look you know.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: WHAT i. THINK i was looking for live show topics
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: and came across.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: This oh, Cool, yeah this would have been a good.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: One but there's there's a lot of downers. Too, yeah
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: not a lot of, jokey ridiculous. Stuff, yeah do you
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: have anything? ELSE i do? Not, Okay well that means
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: it's time for. Listener.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Man i'm gonna call this the pain of, preemption because
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: that's What michael called. It, hey, guys Love Saturday Morning cartoon.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: EPISODE i was born in eighty four and watched them
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: well into high. School your episode covered a, lot but
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: you left out one, thing the pain of. Preemption local
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: channels carried the big networks would often cut off the
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: cartoons to show.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: Golf baseball or other.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Sports and as a, KID i, KNOW i never knew
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: when this is gonna. Happen just, suddenly the joy of
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: cartoon was abruptly halted show a golf match that no
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: kid would care. ABOUT i never got to see The
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: christmas Special, christopher The Christmas, tree or the last episode
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Of Ultimate. Muscle you haven't heard of any either one of.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: THOSE i haven't, Either BUT i still feel for, him he.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: SAID i don't want to bring down the, room but
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: it's important to remember that those wonderful mornings could be
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: broken at any. Time thanks for making such a great.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Show that is From michael j. Crandall AND i forgot
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: to Mention. Michael his initial salutation was Dear mike And.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Josh, wow he's got himself on the. BRAIN i. Know,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: well that was a great, Email, michael and thank you
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: To mike for reading.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: It, Okay i'll Be.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Mike, no you're Not, mike Your. Chuck everybody knows.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: That that's my brother's middle name, too, though so that
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: was a plat Yeah, Scott.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: Mike oh, no, no, no that's his first.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: NAME i forget my brother and my sister their middle
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: name is their, name which is.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: Interesting i'm not sure why that.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Happened this has gotten so confusing to.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: Me He's Michael, scott is he?
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Really? Yeah that's. Awesome why are you calling him that
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: all the?
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: TIME i don't, KNOW i probably.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: SHOULD i, mean that's the office, guy, right, yeah, yeah,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: YEAH i never have thought about that until right.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Now well that's What i'm going to call him from now.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: On all, Right, okay if you want to be Like
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: michael crandall Not Michael scott and send us an, email
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: we would love. That please. Do you can send it
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: Com stuff You Should know is a production Of. iHeartRadio
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: for more podcasts my Heart, radio visit The iHeartRadio, App Apple,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite, shows