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Driving to Work · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Welcome to System Speak, a podcast about complex trauma and dissociation. It's our story, our learning, and the ideas we've been working with as they've unfolded over time. Earlier episodes give context for where we are now, and current episodes may engage more advanced material, harder content, or reference earlier conversations. A few things to remember as you listen. The podcast is education, reflection, and storytelling.
• 0:41
  It's not therapy, and listening doesn't create a relationship. Although I am a therapist, I am not in that role here, and nothing that I share is individualized clinical advice. Every system, every internal world, all of your own stories are all different and you take up your own shape. What we share about ours won't translate directly to yours. It isn't meant to.
• 1:06
  We're all different, and all of our stories matter. As always, take care of yourself during and after listening, and we are so glad you're here.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I wish you could see what I get to see every day when I drive to work in the city. Some of you do, I know, because we've talked about it, how similar it is to where you live or how different it is where you live. But where I live now is one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen, and I love it so much. When I go to work, it feels so good to be in rhythm with my myself again. And I really feel like one of the most stabilizing things for me is getting to go to sleep when I need to go to sleep and wake up when I'm ready.
• 2:12
  And the fact that I have enjoyed this season of early mornings driving to my new office and being able to soak in the panoramic view of driving through the forest, driving through the mountains, and watching the sunrise every day. It nourishes my soul in a very Clarissa women who run with the wolves kind of way. There is air in my lungs again, and I know I'm breathing. To think that a year and a half ago, I felt like I could not breathe and had to figure out so many hard things to get myself to a better place so that I could and to experience how right for me all of that has been and how good I feel because of listening to myself has just been a beautiful and profound experience. I don't mean everything has been easy.
• 3:28
  This year has been so hard in a 100 ways, and some of it we haven't even gotten to talk about yet because so much has been happening that it is that I've not even been able to record episodes hardly at all. And even this one, I'm recording literally while I drive to work today. So much has happened. I have been with one kiddo who has been in the hospital for the last month. They're okay.
• 3:58
  Don't worry about that. But that's what my experience has been, waiting to visit, getting in and out to visit, all the drives back and forth, that kind of intensity. And I have two other kids prepping for surgery. My oldest, who's getting ready for the eye surgery, they shared about, and then my youngest getting ready for airway surgery again. We have had, the last three years, one of the best airways we've had her whole life.
• 4:32
  She's done beautifully, and,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: also, we are starting to be back in crisis again, which is expected as she grows. And so in her
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: had context, that is very normal even if also it's so high risk. So all of the prep work and all of those pre ops and all the different departments we meet with and clinics we do to get ready for that, that has been going on, and it has just been a lot. And aside from all of that, we have found out, and I have permission to share this, we have found out that Nathan has cancer. He has surgery next week. We're gonna find out what kind, if there's some benign tumors or if it is something else going on and more serious and what kind of treatment he's gonna get.
• 5:24
  We don't know, but they're gonna try to remove them next week and also do biopsies of that because that's how it happened. So that's all very normal in that condition. And when we know more, we will, share or maybe he can come on and share whatever that is relevant or not. But, really, even though those have been some of the hard things in the background, the biggest context of what we have been going through is the developmental shift in our family. It's been such a big deal and so emotional.
• 6:03
  We have known since the beginning that this year would come, but it is hitting different as we experience it. The emotions are landing, and it has been an emotional roller coaster like nothing else in the most tender and beautiful ways. And I think these are the moments why we do the hard work of learning to feel our feelings and tolerate our feelings because we want to be able to feel the good feelings too and sadness in good context and endings that are good endings and experiencing change without panic. It has just been so much. Our youngest has finished elementary school and has officially had the moving up ceremony into middle school.
• 6:59
  I actually did a whole recording about that. Well, somebody did. And I haven't let it air because it's just so tender, and I think I'm just gonna keep it to myself. But the experience of watching this one move up from elementary to middle school, like, they had a whole graduation. The middle school's next door.
• 7:21
  We walked over to the middle school. Like, it was a whole thing, a whole moving up ceremony. And just the significance of what that means for this child in particular, to be present with that, to be to have done the work the last couple of years that we could be fully present with that, that we didn't miss that or that it didn't slide by, that that was a focal point of our experience this spring was so, so important, and I'm so, so grateful that we didn't miss a minute of that and that we were so present. And watching this one become their own person has just been profound. And, also, the twins finished middle school and had a similar moving up ceremony to move up to the high school.
• 8:17
  I love how they do it here. The the all of the ceremonies were in seven languages, and there were pride flags everywhere. Like, it's just they're so affirming in so many ways. They had cultural dances from different countries. They had cultural food from different different countries.
• 8:36
  And to think back as I go back through the original episodes, to think back to being so scared and so overwhelmed that I could not even do muffins with mom in the elementary school back in the day when all the kids were still in elementary school. And what a big feat it was to be able to do that before the triplets finished school. And I'm so glad that I did because we didn't know the pandemic was coming, right? So that was really the end of their elementary school was when the pandemic hit. And so to come from that where it was so scary to make any friends at all, to be able to interact with other parents, to now be coming to this elementary school and middle school graduation where I have friends and where I know people and where the parents are our neighbors and we have, like, be all the kids have, like, their besties and their BFFs and their friends.
• 9:45
  And our kids go to different houses, and the other kids come over. And, like, there's always something happening. Our house it's not that it's a huge house, but because it's old, it's built very compartmentalized. And there's, like, upstairs and downstairs and this courtyard outside and all this stuff that give the texture, I guess, of our home. So, like, the neighbor the neighborhood kids love to use our house to play hide and seek and to play kick the can in the neighborhood outside.
• 10:23
  No one goes into any private areas. No one's in the dark alone. It's not that kind of thing. Like, there are safety things, and all the parents are on board. And the parents will come over, and we'll just, like, talk or have snacks or what like, it's been this just powerful experience I never thought would be part of my life.
• 10:43
  And because we live in this community where we can walk to all the places, Like, we know the people downtown. We know the people at the library. We know the people at the parks. We like, we are actually experiencing community, not just internally, but externally, And it has been so good and healing for us and is accessible in person even when I can't get, like, on line with System Speak community or when I can't, like, be in person with my friends because they're far away. So there's a 100 ways we can connect, but it's harder to be in person together.
• 11:23
  Right? Or when it's in between symposiums. And to feel this for the first time, even if also I'm still very introverted, I still want lots of space around me and still need a lot of alone time for reflecting and thinking and creating and processing, coming to my own place of what does that balance mean to me and what does that look like in the context of these particular years of parenting is unlike anything else. The triplets had a moving up ceremony and were officially inducted. It was so adorable.
• 12:02
  Officially inducted as seniors. They are seniors in high school. They have jobs. They're learning to drive. They have had jobs long enough that they have their own phones that they pay for themselves.
• 12:17
  They have car insurance that they pay for themselves and they are thin. And so with that, they're able to practice driving more consistently and really getting better at that. And it's just been amazing to experience this level of not just daydreaming about their own apartment someday or what combination will they live with, who wants to live on their own, who wants to live together first, who wants to live with friends first, like all these young adult conversations. I was so alone in this season of my life when I was their age to watch them have so much support in our family, in the community, with friends, to just witness them being supported as they navigate this and make their own choices, and to watch them really be developing discernment in a new way where like my oldest, wanting to do this or that, but that doesn't feel safe. So what if we just do the podcast instead?
• 13:27
  Or, like, being able to navigate safety issues or being able to navigate adulting things, being able to navigate things like pragmatic skills of, like, yes. I do want to take these extra hours, and, also, I'm really tired. And, also, I'm saving for this or that. Or want to spend my money on that, and I wanna save my money for this. Like, being able to watch them navigate all of those things and learning those things in a way when they're not alone has been such a such an amazing experience.
• 14:05
  And for things to be this chaotic and that much hard, being balanced with so much good has been really healing for me in its own way so that even therapy time isn't just catching up on the stories or these are the hardest things this week or this is the latest from this week. It's also here is what I'm learning, and here's where I'm at. And not all of that is, like, easy or good or positive. Right? Like, there's lots of things in life that are really hard, and part of what's hard is buckling down in therapy.
• 14:54
  Again, Buckling up. Do you buckle up or buckle down? Buckle down to work hard. Buckle up for safety. Oh my goodness.
• 15:07
  Buckling in to work hard in therapy and very slowly in a very titrated way, pacing very gently for safety of looking at what has the impact of the last year been? How am I feeling about the last year. It's so funny when we moved the office and I found all those journals and papers. Part of what I found is how I went into last year thinking, here are the things I want to learn, and here are the things I'm trying to explore and figure out. And then sort of having this, I'm gonna report back and and share about it kind of thing, which I think comes from church trauma, religious trauma, and the whole go do this assignment and then come back and report on it.
• 15:59
  So I think that was tender in ways I didn't understand and activating for myself. Like, I mean, I did that to myself in ways I didn't understand. And now being able to let some of that go, even if that includes grief and also see things accurately and also notice what am I working on in therapy? What is surfacing, what do I wanna share about, what does how does privacy look different now, all these different layers of what does it mean to me when we're redefining who me is. Does that make sense?
• 16:45
  And so being really careful going back to the concept we talked about of inclusion, which I know is not the word everyone uses, but including my whole system. If this is our experience right now, what does that look like for everybody? And different parts specifically. And I think part of what is making that more accessible is having the new office, is having a little bit of a drive so that we have time to reflect and think, and having access to ourselves in privacy in a way we have not had in quite some time, like several, several years, maybe four or five years, because of everything that was going on, maybe since before the pandemic, because the pandemic left us all at home together for so long. And then even when I moved, I didn't necessarily have privacy.
• 17:50
  And then now the kids are really at a different developmental stage where what they need from me is conversations when they're available. But their availability is so different that it has really freed me up for the first time since becoming a parent to pursue my own activities again differently than I have been able to do since becoming a parent. So it's an interesting experience in that I have a lot more privacy to be holding space for my own system and a lot more time to be experiencing that more directly and more time and space and freedom to sort of explore the world and move about the cabin and also still prioritizing the children in their development, because that's my job as the parent, such that when they need me to be flexible and be available. But a lot of times, they are not needing me and needing me differently. And so learning what that means and what it doesn't mean and letting go of so many things.
• 19:06
  It was interesting this weekend. I we were cleaning the room of my youngest, and it was age appropriate for me to help and support in some ways. And I was doing that. And then also noticing that there were some things that they needed help with differently or things they didn't need help with this time that they did last time. And it was also super fun because they were wanting to redecorate, which is what started the whole thing, that they wanted to make a teenage room.
• 19:40
  They've been very princess in lots of ways. And, And so it's been fun having like this super girl creature that is so foreign to me in some ways. And then also watching them sort of expand that into what other things that they like or enjoy or what teenage means to them and their little besties that come over and play at the house. It's just, it's just watching development, letting myself return to my own development, having that freedom where like it's really small things and maybe it's something that parent other parents understand. But like this weekend, they were all playing a game together, several neighborhood kids and all my kids in the living room.
• 20:34
  And so I was right there in my chair, like, across the room where I could see and hear everything if they needed anything, but they didn't. And so, like, I needed to be near. They needed me to be near, but they didn't actually need anything from me. Even when they wanted snacks, they just got up and made them themselves and picked out what they want. And they said, can we do this or can we do that?
• 20:59
  I was like, you know, you don't have to ask. It's fine. But there was, like, two things they wanted to heat up and they had questions about. So I answered the questions, but they still wanted to do it themselves. And it's amazing and adorable.
• 21:13
  And also I got to spend most of the day just sitting there reading a book. Not a book for the podcast, not a book for therapy, not a book for learning something, not a book to teach a class. Just a book, as in fiction. I it's it's so funny to me. My best friend from college, who's been on the podcast, has known me since we were music majors together, because that's what girls do.
• 21:52
  When you go to shiny, happy college, you're a music major until you get married. That's a whole different side quest. That's a whole different thing. But we, since anyway, that's a whole different thing. I can hear her laughing about it right now.
• 22:10
  So last year she sent me a book she read that she loved. And I actually and the reason and the reason she thought I would love it is because of the way the writer is so good with descriptive phrases. And I don't mean long narration about what color the flowers are and how the bushes are shaped and what kind of trees are in the front yard. Not that kind of description. Meaning just the turn of phrase, the writing is beautiful writing.
• 22:46
  And that feeds my soul as much as the nature I saw driving to work this morning. And so she thought of me when she read it, which I appreciated. So I got the book, and I've been trying for a year to read it. And I've only gotten like a page here and a page there. And I'm glad that the book is so intriguing because otherwise, I don't know that I would have been able to even get into it because it's so hard for me to have any time to myself at all.
• 23:17
  And, also, I'm all of a sudden, just over the last month, I'm all of a sudden halfway through the book. And now I kind of don't want the book to finish because it's one of those really good ones where you kinda wanna just stay in that world. It's all about these doors that you can find and move through. And it is such a reflective experience in my life in so many ways. So I am loving it.
• 23:43
  It's called 10,000 Doors of January, I think. Anyway, it's so good. And I just really got to sit there this weekend and read it all day while they were playing games. It was amazing. So it's not that I'm talking about some giant breakthrough or some big deal, except to me, that is a big deal.
• 24:08
  And coming through a season that has been so hard, but so critical to my development, leaving Oklahoma, navigating religious trauma, coming into my own spaces and peoples and places and cultures, and the development of my children in such a way that is a new phase of parenting and prioritizing relationships with them in new ways as all of us heal. They have such an amazing therapist right now. And it has been like, I feel like it has improved our relationships 200%. Like, it's a it has been amazing. They have done amazing work.
• 24:57
  I am enjoying them. They are enjoying, like, family life differently than before. It's just been a really, really good season together, even though also there's lots of hard things and lots of things that just are and lots of things we can't do anything about. Right? And also to be able to go through hard things and still enjoy our life anyway is huge.
• 25:25
  It's huge. I think I shared on the podcast. I don't know if it aired or not. But how I said in therapy, I feel like for the first time in my life, there are more good things than hard things. And that is saying a lot.
• 25:44
  And it just feels good. And there is a relief in it somehow without, maybe it's like being able to see the making lace and step back to see what the lace picture is and how it is my own life I'm creating. Because I'm not dissociating what's hard and I'm not denying what's hard. And I still have to put effort into my healing work and all of the things. And also I just really enjoy my life.
• 26:23
  And it's just been really, really good, even though also really, really hard. And I think what I've learned this year was that the first thing I needed to do was start standing up for myself differently than ever before. And that showed something to my kids that I was doing for myself. I wasn't doing it for them, but they witnessed it. And I think it did something to heal our relationships differently.
• 27:00
  And once I was able to do that, I learned really something about being able to stay present in my own experience. So being aware of what's hard, but not controlled by what's hard. So yes, this is hard and I need to do this and this and this, or this is hard and I can't do anything about it, or whatever is anywhere in between that and the whole continuum of life. Right? But having that and also for making lace and also where I'm at right now is the forest, or where I'm at right now is my office, or where I'm at right now is my home.
• 27:57
  And what I'm doing in my home is this. And that the relationships that matter are the ones I have inside myself with myself and ones I have with my family, whether my outside kids or chosen family, learning how to make friends, and that all of these things are still just as present and unfazed by the other things that are hard. I think I have felt since as a child that I had to be responsible for other people's feelings and that how well I manage that would determine my worth or value in some kind of way that really has been able to change to, I can't do anything about what other people's feelings are because their feelings are theirs. And I'm just still here in my life regardless of how they're feeling. So it doesn't matter if someone is particularly fond at me or particularly upset at me, whether that's my outside kids or anything else, and whether I have a lot of work to do at the office or whether I just kind of get a play day or a creative day at the office.
• 29:11
  Like, it the circumstances don't actually determine my experience. That has been hugely healing. Not just healing, but empowering somehow so that I feel more three d in my own life than I have ever felt before. And so it's been a big year in lots of ways. But I think specifically for our family, for me individually and everybody else individually, but also us together, is that it has been a developmental experience.
• 29:48
  And there are some seasons where growing pains are really, really painful. I had that when I was little, growing pains in my legs. It was so brutal. One of my outside kids had growing pains. The others did not.
• 30:06
  And, also, there are some seasons developmentally where the growing is just fun. And it's like, oh, yeah, this is why the rest is worth it. And this is why we work so hard at it. And that can be true without me holding out for someone else to confirm it. It's true whether my therapist tells it to me or not.
• 30:37
  It's true whether I find a partner or not. Like, I don't need a partner to make that true. And learning that who I am is about what's happening inside in my experience and what the others are experiencing and sharing that collectively as opposed to who I am is what other people need from me or how I can perform for other people or how I fail other people, that none of those things define who I am. Who I am is my experience internally and the collection, the inclusion of all of those parts of me. It's been a big, big lesson.
• 31:27
  And I just wanted to share maybe to catch up, to hold space for that, to say it so I remember it. Because when making Lay's felt so hard, I didn't know it would turn out so great. I didn't know it would turn out so well. Maybe part of what I'm learning is just how to enjoy my own life, that that's even a thing. But maybe I couldn't learn it until I got one first.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and healing brings hope.