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Plant-Based Diets · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: And welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: and Jerry's here too, and this is a good old
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: fashioned root and tune, down home episode of Stuff.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: You Should Do.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Technical difficulties, please stand by.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're a good twenty minutes late, Chuck.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Man, because it's about to say me, it's not my fault.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: No, it's not your fault. It's the computer's fault, right.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Not even But who cares about computers? This is I mean,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: this is probably literally the opposite of computers, because we're
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: talking about plants.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna ask you, old school Chuck,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: have you ever eaten a plant?
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: I love living things, so I do not kill plants and.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Eat So are you a breathetarian? That's what they are, right, yeah,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: where you just don't eat.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: No, of course I eat plants, you know, Emily, I
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: would argue it has a plant based diet. Now that
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: I know that a plant based diet doesn't mean that
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: you're vegan or vegetarian. It just and you know, as
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: you'll see, depending on the percentage of the website you
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: look at a lot of people say like you know,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: it really depends on how much you eat and a
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: certain percentage, like maybe eighty percent of your diet is
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: plant based, and that's easily Emily. She eats vegetables constantly.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: She always has like a radish in her hand.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: No, but there's just her meals. Like her meals she'll cook,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Like we try to eat the same stuff, but I
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: don't want to sit down and eat Brussels sprouts, broccoli
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and cauliflower for dinner.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: That's a plant based diet for sure.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but she'll throw some chicken in there and some fish,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: so she's sort of pescatarian plus maybe.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pesca poultry tarian.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's a lot of for all this stuff.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I didn't know about a third of these probably.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they all seem to fall under the umbrella term,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: like you said, a plant based diet, so like a
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: vegan diet is a plant based diet, but not all
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: plant based diets are like vegan diets. Yeah, that kind
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: of set up.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I had never heard of blacktoe vegetarian, which basically means
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: you throw out all the rest, but I'll eat dairy.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, understandable. There's also ovo vegetarian. These are terrible names,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: by the way. Yeah, that means that you include eggs
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: in your vegan diet.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not oval that would make even more sense, I think.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: No, it means that you include ovum in your diet. Yeah,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: but I should say it's not a vegan diet at all,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Like you can't have any kind of animal products, Nope,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: in a vegan diet, not just like meat or dairy
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: or eggs, but like vegan won't eat honey. Yeah, we
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: talked about fig wasps recently. They won't eat figs for
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: that reason.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I think some vegans I found a lot of support
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: behind vegan saying like a processed wasp part and a
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: thing is fine.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'll bet there's some that still won't.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Oh sure.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: And then there's also lacto ovo vegetarian. You're a vegetarian,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: but you eat eggs and dairy. There's lacto ovo bacon vegetarian.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: And then there's what you said, Emily was pescatarian, which
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: is general. I mean you're essentially just you know, you're
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: eating more vegetables than the average person at this point.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: If you're a pescatarian.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: I think that's right. No comment on what that does
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: to your butt.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: What if you just eat seafood, No.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: If you eat nothing but broccoli and cauliflower all day long.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, not just your butt, but like the well
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: being of people around you too.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's it's very good for you. She's a
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: much healthier human than I am.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Nice, well, not the part that you're not as healthy,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: but I'm glad that she is.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Of course, one thing we should go out early
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: on is that there's a sort of exhaustive look at
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: how much meat people eat around the world at a
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: certain point or kind of pepper throughout and just for
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: cops purposes. In the United States, we average per capita
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: meat consumption between one hundred and twenty three to one
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty ish kilograms, depending on where you're looking.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: So just kind of put that in your in the back,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: in your back pocket when we start talking about other countries.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that that really kind of came home to me
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: when I converted it to quarter pounders. Yeah, or in
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Europe royale with cheese, that's thirteen and thirty two quarter
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: pounders a year. That means you're eating almost four quarter
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  Speaker 2: pounders worth of meat a day every year. At one
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty one point four kilograms.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Man, if only you could do that and live.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Right, that's called heaven, my friend.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: So clearly with those kind of numbers that the US
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: is a meat based culture. I mean, plenty of people
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: here do not take part in that kind of thing, obviously,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: but as you'll see, many cultures around the world historically
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: have plant based diets and still have plant based diets.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Depending on who you ask, they might say there's about
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: two billion meat based eaters in the world and about
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: four billion plant based eaters.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean that's not too bad. They're really
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: holding things up because I mean, if actually that's more
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: than that's the majority. You're saying the majority of the
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: world is plant based.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I'm saying two billion and four billion. I'm not weighing
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: in on percentages.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, we will go around the world in a minute,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: but let's go through history for a little bit first. Okay,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: because plant based diets, especially in the West, they're kind
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: of like a new thing. Maybe they came out of
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: the New Age movement in the seventies and eighties. No,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: this is really old stuff. In fact, you can make
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: a really good case that plant based diets, especially a
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: flexitarian version, is essentially the default diet of humans.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's in some cases were actually in
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of cases, especially historically speaking, and still in
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: some places today, it's sort of the de facto diet
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: because that's what you have and you may not have
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: the kind of money to like go get really good
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: meat or something like that. So if you look back
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: through time and you go back to say like Ireland
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century, before the potato famin, they were
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: eating tons of potatoes there, or a lot of poor
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: people in iron that were like, hey, we can grow potatoes,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: they have some vitamins and minerals. Maybe we can milk
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: a cow and eat a little pickled herring, but other
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: than that, we're eating lots and lots of potatoes.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. This is before the famine, when a
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: potato blight came and when the Irish immigrants really started
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: to come on mass to the United States in the
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: nineteenth century, they were quite surprised at the abundance and
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: availability and cheapness of meat in the United States, and
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: that apparently dates back to colonial times where colonists in
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: well what would become the United States were eating more
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: meat than the average person back in England, Like they
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: were eating essentially the same amount of meat as elites
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: back in the UK. And that's the long standing thing
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: where meat consumption throughout history in most places is associated
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: with higher status and elite status. You're wealthier because it's
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: always been harder to come by. Well, the colonies had
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: a lot more land, so they could grow a lot
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  Speaker 2: more livestock and then hence eat a lot more meat.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, had a lot more land, asterist, right, and yeah,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: everyone knows what we mean by that. Yeah. And you
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: know there's who helped us with the original version of this.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Was it Libya No Laura all right? The claw Claw,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: doctor Claw. She dug up a grapt basically about how
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Italians eat and prior to well, not that long ago,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: they ate what you would call the Mediterranean diet now,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: and they just called it what we eat because that's
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: what's around here, the diet. Yeah, exactly, fruit, vegetables, olive oil, lagomes, fish, cereals,
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  Speaker 1: not a ton of dairy or meat. But they after
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: I believe after World War Two, they started eating a
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  Speaker 1: lot more meat. Before that, it was basically a plant
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: based diet because as you'll see once again, no, no,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: no choke, they're eating lots of fish. Plant based diet
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: is we're talking about meat here. The fish get a pass.
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  Speaker 1: I guess as far as plant based diet goes, it
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: does not mean vegetarian or vegan.
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  Speaker 2: Right, And Italy followed the same trajectory that most nations
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: do once they reach a certain point of prosperity, meat
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  Speaker 2: consumption to start going through the roof. Whereas before in
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: history elite like individual groups of people who are well
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: off or could afford beat, when an entire nation becomes
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: well off enough, they start buying meat. Meat consumption just
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: goes up. So after the war, Italy followed that. And
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: you'll see, like throughout throughout the world, the more prosperous
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: a nation, the higher their meat consumption. Yea, almost, it's
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: almost to a country.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which you know, a cynic might say, well, if
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: every nation was prosperous, everyone would just eat tons of meat,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: and it sounds cynical, but like the data sort of
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: says what you just said, right. You know, if you
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: look at the US in the nineteenth century, they were
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: roundly encouraging the people eat lots and lots of meat.
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  Speaker 1: There was a cholera outbreak in eighteen thirty two in
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: the US government said eat more meat and drink more
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: alcohol and lay off the fruits and vegetables, obviously because
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: of cholera, but there was also just this idea in
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: America early on that like, you know, we're well fed
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: and we're well bred because we eat red meat and
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: we growing big here in the States. We're not sitting
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: around eating rice and grains and potatoes.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that diet has just spread throughout the world.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: But again, it doesn't necessarily seem to mean because people
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: are emulating the United States. It just seems like the
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: United States was following a trajectory that other countries are now, right.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and hey, what a great time to set up
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: where countries are now because remember those numbers I told
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: you about the United States. We're going to walk you
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: around the world. Everybody not in the way back machine.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: What do we call this when we're just currently go
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: far machine? Yeah, the go far and wide machine. Modern day,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Jump in the go far and wide machine and come
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: with us at first to Africa. If you get continent wide,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: the stat is about sixty five grams. I'm sorry, sixty
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: five kilograms of meat per capita. I wonder about that
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: number because if you break it down per country, South
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Africa they eat about sixty five point two kilograms compared
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: to let's say, the Democratic Republic of Congo at just
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: over four kilograms. Who's eating more red meat in Africa
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: than South Africa to make that average sixty five?
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know. One thing that I recognized from researching
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: this is that there are so many stats that are
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: so different and estimates that are just so different. And
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: don't understand why it's so hard to track something like
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: meat consumption, Like we've got that so commoditized that I mean,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how we can't track it. Even for
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: the United States. You rattled off three different estimates for
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: how much meat the United States eats, So who knows, Chuck,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Who really knows whether any of these numbers are correct
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: or not?
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Well, no one's ever asked me how much meat I eat.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: I could skew that. Oh really have you?
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I get that all the time usually because I have
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: like a big chunk of like steak in my teeth.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, I mean like an official study, like
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I know, I'm just kidding do any
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: of that stuff. It's sort of like weird black magic
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: to me. But we do know that generally speaking, West
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: African nations eat a little more meat. It's a little
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: more meat heavy than East African nations. But even in
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: West Africa, that's again, I mean, if the average per
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: capita was sixty five kilograms, that's like less than half
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: the United States per capita.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I'm guessing from what I could tell, the
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: United States leads the world in meat consumption. I'm sure
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: most other countries, depending on where they are, are going
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: to eat a lot less. But again, like you said,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Africa is not some single bonolith, it has a bunch
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: of different variation. Asia is the same way. On the whole.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Asia eats far less meat compared to one another. Some
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: eat more, some eat less, and you get all sorts
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: of weird little statistical blips that come up from that.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If you look at the top ten countries around
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: the world with the highest rates of vegetarianism, India and
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Taiwan are on there. So two of the top ten
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: are in Asia. Japan and China. They aren't on the
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: list of top ten percentage vegetarian wise, but they eat
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: a lot less meat than the US at an average
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: per capita consumption under seventy five kilograms.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Taiwan's a good example too. It has a
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: very high percentage of vegetarians, but it also has a
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: really high per capita meat consumption too, So it's just
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: basically wacky over there.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is another like if you look at Bangladesh, Bhutan, Nepal, Minimar, Cambodia, Indonesia,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and Vietnam, they're all under twenty kilograms and Thailand is
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: it like twenty five and Laos at thirty, So, I
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: mean that's way less than the seventy five average in
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Japan and China.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would guess Thailand, and I'm not sure about Laos,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: but I would guess Thailand is wealthier than probably memr
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: or Indonesia. I don't know about Vietnam, but I think
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: a lot of it also has to do with the religious,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: like what religions are predominant there too.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which we'll get in. Well, actually take a break
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: before you do that, but we'll talk about India real quick,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: because they have the highest proportion of vegetarians in the world,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: close to forty percent thirty eight percent. Thirty nine percent
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: are vegetarian in India for you know, obvious reasons, and
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: six point six kilograms of meat per capita compared to
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: as many as one hundred and fifty for the US. Yeah, exactly,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: that's very low.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: It is very low. I say we take a break.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: We're going to come back to the studio away from
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: the what was it, the far Go far and wide machine.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. We're still inventing new ways to
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: travel in you're seventeen.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: It still has that new imaginary machine smell uh Yeah. Anyway,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: we're going to take a break everybody, and we'll figure
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: out what we're going to talk about next.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Learn and stuff with Joshua job stuff fu shine up.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: All right, we're back, and we promised talk of religion
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: because who doesn't love that? But this is religion as
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: it relates to diet, because depending on your religion, there
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: may be a lot of you know, rules and restrictions
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: on what they say you should eat because of a
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: bunch of reasons. It can sometimes it shows like purity.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's like no, it shows how dedicated and faithful
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: you are. Sometimes it's like, hey, you get at following rules,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: don't eat this on this day, and let's see how
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: you do with that. But for whatever reason, there are
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: plenty of religions that have rules sort of surrounding meat,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: for sure.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, some of the most famous ones are kosher. Yeah,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: that's a big one where you have to actually separate
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: certain kinds of food, like you separate meat, separate dairy.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: There's also like restrictions and guidelines on how animals are slaughtered.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: So it's not particularly vegetarian by nature keeping kosher is,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: but it makes you so much more mindful that a
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: lot of people just eventually end up being vegetarian just
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: by following a kosher diet. There's also halal is very similar.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: It has all sorts of permissions and bands and stuff
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: like that on what animals can be eaten. But it's
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: different in that like there's no shell fish alloutter birds
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: of prey, but you can eat rabbits. But they're both
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: similarish in that you really have to pay attention to
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: what you're eating if you are a genuine adherent of
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: this religious diet that's being prescribed to you.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you're wondering, like, well, how does that
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: affect the rate of vegetarianism in Israel, they are second
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: behind India. That's not the only factor, of course, but
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I think the highest percentage of veganism is in Israel too,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: which is Yeah. I don't know why that surprised me,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: but it did.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, good noted there's I think. So this is another
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: thing too, like a lot of people just end up
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: being default vegetarians because of their religious diet. And another
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: good example is the Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Church, which we
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: talked about in our Holly Selassie episode. I think they
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: have two hundred days a year that are considered fast
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: days where you just can't eat meat but you can
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: eat plants. So I mean, for all intents and purposes,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: you're at least the majority of the year of vegetarian
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: if you're Eastern Ethiopian Orthodox.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I wonder one hundred and sixty five days a year
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: they just party down on some steak probably what Seventh
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Day Adventist. It's not a requirement to be a vegetarian,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: but they're like, it's not a bad way to live.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: They kind of endorse it.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Remember they grew out of that whole William Keith
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: and John Kellogg movement of the nineteenth century.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they endorse the movement generally, but about thirty six
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: percent end up lacto ovo vegetarians, and then sixteen percent
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, an additional sixteen percent eat plant based diet
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: with maybe a little fish, maybe a little bit of meat.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Buddhism is very connected to vegetarianism, like a straightforward
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: religious decree like kosher. Instead, it's linked to nonviolence, right,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: So if you're your religion forbids violence, you can't really
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: cut the head off of a chicken and eat it
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: very easily. People still do in Buddhist countries, but it's
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: much more or it's much less common and frequent, and
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: in fact, apparently in Japan from six seventy five to
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: eighteen seventy two, meat was essentially banned in that country
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: because of the influence of Buddhism and Confucianism.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: You gotta weight on that chicken to die of natural causes.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Just follow it around like a buzzard.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: He's not looking so good.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: He looks a little pekin Hindu is.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I love that word, by the way, good I'm going
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: I used. I heard that word last night on the
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: TV show The Pit, and I realized, I just don't
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: use it much.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: You know what, I like? That's similar. It's peckish.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I like peckish as well.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe our musical duo should be peaked and peckish.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, that is that you just won the
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: band name contest, Chuck for all time.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: But everyone would be like who's peaked and who's peckish?
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Like I think Josh is peaked and Chuck is peckish.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't matter. We can both be would It would
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: depend on our mood on any given day?
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Or perhaps we are both peaked and peckish. Yeah, at
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: all times. We're always hungry and we're always not looking
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: so good. Hinduism, at almost eighty percent, eats a plant
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: based diet, but they again, it's not required. It's just like, hey,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: why don't you do this? That kind of thing. Heavily suggested.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, it's also I mean, especially since the Hindu
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: nationalist ruling party took over the Baratiya Janata Party BJP,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: they have been enforcing like really strict rules that are
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Hindu in nature against eating meat, so much so that
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: people have been beaten. I think one person at least
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: has been lynched. For eating meat or being associated with
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: the meat trade, specifically beef, because cows are considered sacred
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: in Hinduism, and also similarly in India, vegetarianism is linked
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: to social status, in basically complete contradiction of what it's
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: like in say the West, where eating meat has long
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: been associated with being an elite or having high status.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Vegetarianism is in India.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Apparently all right, flip loped it. I love it.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you're like, wow, eighty percent of Hindus
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: are vegetarian, it's pretty impressive. Prepare for this. Jans. These
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: are the people who are so against herting or killing
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: anything that they have little hand dust rooms that they
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: carry with them to dust off seats before they sit
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: down so they don't actually accidentally kill a bud. Ninety
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: two percent of them and fifty nine percent of Sikhs
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: in India are all vegetarians.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: And I guess eight percent of Jains are bad Jaans.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: So I mean, like, how would you show up to
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: like the Jain meeting and show your face.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or show up to a Jaine party with a
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: raka ribs. That's probably not it's probably frowned upon.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I would say, I would think so.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: All right, so if and of course I'm kidding no
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: offense to any Jane's out.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: There, No, of course not. I'm sure they'd show up
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: and be like natural causes everybody be all check.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: So, if you're gonna eat a plant based diet, it
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: can look at like a It can look many different
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: ways depending on what you're into. We found some information
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: from Harvard Health. And obviously one thing that you're gonna
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: do is eats of veggies like Emily does. They say, like, hey,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: fill half your plate up with veggies and vary the color.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Don't eat just like a bunch of green veggies. Like
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: eat veggies of all stripes and colors.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Get you some anthracyanins, why don't you.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Also the way so these are like if you want
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: to start to get into vegetarianism, these are some easy
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: ways to kind of slide into it. Another one is
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: changing the way that you think about meat. Rather than
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: it being the center or the star of the meal,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: just kind of put it to the side, like it
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily have to be you know, a thumb sized
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: piece of steak, but I mean, if it more you know,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: kind of evenly resembled the grain or the greens on
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: your plate. That would make that would make a lot
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: more sense.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll have the cream spinach, side of bructli and
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: a thumb of steak.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Right, it's funny, so I used thumb. So have you
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: ever heard that thing about a portion of meat being
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: no bigger than the palm of your hand.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: For like, that's the healthy way to eat meat. Yes,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've heard that, but oh okay, I
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: could see that.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: So not just that. If you cup your hands that
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: you're serving of fruit and vegetables, and then your thumb
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: is your measure of fats like a nut, butter or
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: something like that.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: There's a name for all this. It's called the zimbabwe
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: hand jive.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I can I've done that dance, but I did not
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: know that was a eating scale.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Well, so this guy in nineteen ninety three, doctor Kazim Mauji,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: came up with this way of doing it and it's
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: been widely adopted. But I had no idea that's what
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: it was called.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: It's a great name. What I do We host a
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: lot of especially in the spring and summertime, of people
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: when we go to the lake and just at our
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: house here we have we throw dinner parties. We just
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: do a lot of that kind of stuff. And aside
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: from being exhausting, one thing, I'm just kidding, it's actually
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun. But one thing, yeah, I do.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: And this goes along with like how you think about
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: meat and how much meat you have is I don't
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: cook up, like, you know, twenty chicken breast. If there's
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: twenty people there, I cook up a bunch of you know,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: whatever kind of cut of chicken and or steaks. Sometimes
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: they'll do a couple of meats and I will just
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I will slice it all up on a big platter
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: and then you can just get a portion of something
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: rather than saying, like, here's a gigantic chicken breast on
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: your plate that you now feel responsible for. Right, And
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: people seem to really like that, you know, like maybe
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I'll have a little bit of this and a little
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: bit of that and then the rest is our veggie sides.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a tip from Chucky.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you should just set up a carving station and
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: ask to see each person's thumb, right, Yeah, that'd save
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: you a bunch of money totally. So let's see what
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: else Oh. Another good one is to choose different fats, avocados,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: olive oil, stuff like that, and then just cook at
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: least one vegetarian meal per week. Dip your toe in
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: the Yeah, and if you start doing these kind of things,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: it's actually really easy to find yourself down the road,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: like just doing it without thinking about it, and more
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: and more meals throughout the week become vegetarian. Because we'll
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: talk in a minute about why people do this, but
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of people stop eating as much meat for
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: health reasons or because they want to lose weight. And
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: if you just kind of start, like you said, dip
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: your toe in like this, it just becomes kind of
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: second nature over time.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can get used to something like that. And
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I think what you'll find if you think you need
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: meat because like it's more filling, that's just not true.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: You get plenty full eating all that other stuff, So
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: you know, you can give it a whirl. I do
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: that stuff every now and then. Whole grains at breakfast
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: is great. This is basically again what Emily does. A
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: lot of oatmeal, buckwheat, barley, quinoa eat like a horse,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: but not as much as a horse.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: This is a big one. For me, chuck is eating
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: fruit for dessert because I don't ever eat something and
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: like a meal of any kind and not think like, okay, no,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I have to have something sweet. Oh really, I just
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: can't not do it. My brain's just as wired that
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: way I am too. Yeah, okay, So if you just
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: eat like an apple or some strawberries or something like that,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: it just short circuits that. It does it for you.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have just retrained my brain to where I
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: don't seek that. And it's not like I was eating
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: dessert every night. Like the only time I literally have dessert,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: like a dessert is kind of either if a bunch
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: of people are out to eat and it's an occasion
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: or maybe on vacation or something like that. But it's
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: not like even eating out in a restaurant. We never
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: eat dessert like that. But I have found just one
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: square of dark chocolate scratches that itch in a nice way.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: It always feels like a punishment to me because it's
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: just one, just one, and it's dark chocolate.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Oh you don't like dark chocolate.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: It's fine, but it's not going to short circuit that dessert.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: You know what. I used to not be into dark chocolate.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: But I la la la love it now.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah good, I'm glad. I'm glad to hear that. I'm
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: going to cut the legs out from under you in
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: a little while then.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: But I don't do that every night, but I'll still,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: you know, when I want that, When I find myself
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: like God, I gotta have the sweet thing the night,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: I'll do one square, sprinkle a couple of little dabs
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: of sea salt on top, and that that does it
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: for me.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: My God, why don't you live in Brooklyn?
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I know, because I don't have a manny store. Greens too, obviously,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: like leafy vegetables, salads. Just eat as much stuff like
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: I love a salad. Emily make you know. She grows
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: that stuff and prepares fresh salads, makes her own salad dressing.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: She's gotten more into cooking. She never used to do
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: stuff like that at all, but she's that. I found
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: myself eating a lot more salad these days.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Right. And then the last one is, after you do
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: all these things, eat more vegetables, eat a vegetarian meal
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: once a week, eat a salad for dinner. This is
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: actually the key to the whole thing. Go to bed
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: really early so that your normal breakfast will come much
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: more quickly.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: I don't eat breakfast. But yeah, that was a joke,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: by the way, I know, I get it.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, thanks for the laugh.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Support.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: You want to take a break and then come back
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: and talk about why people become vegetarian vegan? Sure, okay,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Well we'll be right back again.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Learn and stuff with Joshua job.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: Stuff you shine up, Okay, Chuck.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: I think I promised before we left that we talk
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: about why people become vegetarian. I already said health reasons,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: which we'll get into more in a little while. But
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: a lot of people just do it because it's just healthier.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Like if you want to eat healthier, most people don't
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: like double or triple down on fried chicken, like you
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: instead start turning to plants, you know, like people just
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: start eating more plants, And it's almost intuitive. I don't
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: think it even has anything to do with the nutritionists
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: set in the United States convincing people like plants are healthy.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: I just feel like we just intuitively know that that
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: is healthier than eating like a steak or again fried chicken,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: which I feel like there's a place for fried chicken.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not knocking that I mean, as you know, it's
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: my favorite food, and I just you know, I heard
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: you got to pick and choose of that stuff. But
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: it's not removed from my life, thank goodness. But you're
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: gonna get lots of vitamins and minerals and fiber and
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: antioxidants in your veggies if you eat legumes you eat
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: if you're a vegetarian, you probably eat lots of lagomes
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and chick be's and lima beans and stuff like that. Soy,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: you're gonna get lots of protein, amino acids, lots of
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: fiber and antioxidants there and also no cholesterol, which is
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: you know, I have cholesterol problems genetically speaking, so and
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of people do. So that's a good way
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: to get your cholesterol down.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's a lot of variety in just legumes alone,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Like rather than do you want the chicken or the fish,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: there's something like twenty thousand species of legumes. And I
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: didn't know this. I ran across this chuck. There's a
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: category of food called neglected and underutilized legomes.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: The status lagom have.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: An acronym for n ul's right, And there's apparently a
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: ton of legrooms that are found around the world that
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: are known to like local cuisine that they're just waiting
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: to be adopted to kind of make the plant based
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: diet even more varied.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's twenty thousand. I probably have had five. Yeah,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: actually maybe more, but no, no, no.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: I no, I know it to mean, Yeah, I just
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: had a night. So one of the one of the
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: ones I found was the Bombara ground nut. You would
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: make a trillion dollars if instead of a mayonnaise operation
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: you opened a Bombara ground nut operation in Brooklyn.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: I mean you would make so much cash, dude, overnight.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: People just like saying ground nut.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that Bombara really sells the ground nut if you.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Ask me, Yeah, for sure. Obviously. You know, we've mentioned
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: the concerns with red meat, but with beef and pork,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: people have been you know, calling for years for less
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: of that in your diet, and you know, health practitioners
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: and doctors because obviously you know, heart attack, stroke, cancer,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: all the things that can lead you in that direction
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: once you eat too much red meat.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the medical consensus consensus is and remains so
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: that eating red meat, too much red meat is bad
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: for you. Like it just leads to all sorts of
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: negative health outcomes like stroke and heart attack, heart disease,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: things like that. The problem is, despite that consensus, studies
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: still come out fairly regularly that question that idea, that
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: say no, it's not necessarily true, and they usually get
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: shouted down, but it's enough that it makes you, like,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: some people question that. I feel like because the medical
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: consensus is that for now it's probably okay to kind
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: of follow that philosophy that less meat is healthier than
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: more meat.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Another big, big reason is is animal
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: welfare and just maybe your moral values as a human.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: That is a lot of people switch over to vegetarianism
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: or veganism because the modern factory farming system in the
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: United States is a horror show and everybody knows this.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Some people some people do it anyway, but it's a
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: big reason, you know, Like vegans are like, no, all
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: animals have a right to life and a right to freedom,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: and we're not doing it right here in the United States,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: so I'm not going to take part in it.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a whole subcategory of veganism called ethical vegans,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: and I think that they could shoulder their own episode
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: because the whole philosophy behind it, and like the way
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: that they live their lives. It's really interesting. And something
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: I ran across that they counter is the idea of
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: carnism eating meat not being normal and we just take
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: it for normal. And they they questioned that, They're like,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: who said that eating meat is normal? And that that's
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: like why people why people like me can feel bad
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: when I pass like a truck full of cows on
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: their way to the slaughter on the highway and then
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: still go eat like a cheeseburger that same day. That
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: we just kind of have this idea that carnism is normal,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: and vegans are like, no, that's not true. So I
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: found that fascinating. I kind of wanted to get into
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: it a little more.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I'm not gonna tell that story. Mindful
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: eating is another one, which is I mean exactly what
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: it sounds like, just instead of like falling into a
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: pattern and I just I'll just eat that because that's
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: what I've always eaten, or you know, grabbed that thing
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: that's quick and brainless to put in my mouth.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Grab it by the horns.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, to really just have a heightened awareness of what
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: you're eating what's going in your body and every impact
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: from your health to what it means to the world
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: and to that animal. Just being more mindful is another
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: reason that people will go to a plant based on it.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's how people get to that from
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: like religious mandated diets.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll put environmentalism in its own category because
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: there's a whole section on that. But that's another reason.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's pick up health outcomes. Let's dive into a
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: little more.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: So.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: One of the things that people figure out pretty quickly
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: when they become vegans in particular, is that you can
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: get really unhealthy really quick just eating food that qualifies
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: as vegan food. There's a ton of process vegan food
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: out there. A lot of times, a lot of sweetener,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: including just sugar, is added, and just basically eating packaged
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: food or even French fries as long as they're cooked
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: in vegetable oil, those are vegan. And everyone knows that
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: French fries aren't really good for you. So there is
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: like a whole kind of blind alley that you have
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: to watch out for when you get into veganness them.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not a vegan, but it's I can still
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: say you know, word of caution if you go that
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: route that you have to be more active in meal
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: planning and because what you really want to do is
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: eat whole foods and eat real foods. So if you're
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: like I'm going to go vegan and just sort of
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: buy the ultra process stuff that is technically vegan, you're
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: not doing yourself any health favors. I mean, you know
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: you're still doing and you know, as far as your
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: moral values are concerned, you're doing right by that. But
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: you want good outcomes all the way around, So just
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: lean toward whole foods and the Mediterranean diet, which again
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: people around the Mediterranean just call it eating that has
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: roundly been shown over the years to be kind of
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: the one of the ideal diets that you can lean toward.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: I would say the ideal diet. I mean as far
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: as health outcomes go, like I can't imagine how much
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: this diet has been studied and result after results shows
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: that like some kinds of cancers, diabetes, cognitive decline, cardiovascular disease,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: like these things are all lower in people who eat
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: like a Mediterranean diet, like that's just what they eat
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: than people who don't, especially regular meat.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Eaters, Yeah, for sure. As far as the endividual, you know,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: we'll kind of go through a little bit about like
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: who's deficient in what depending on what you eat. If
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: you're looking at protein and saturated fat, you're going to
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: have obviously, if you're a meat eater, you're going to
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: have the highest intake among anyone, and the lowest is
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: going to be among vegans. That's just makes a lot
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: of sense. If you're a vegetarian or a fish eater,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: you're gonna be somewhere in the middle. And vegetarians are
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: more likely than meat or fish eaters to have as
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: a result, inadequate protein intake, and vegans even more likely
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: to have inadequate protein intake, I think, more than vegetarians.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a long scene in Chestnut in like the
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: I guess I don't want to say bodybuilding communities, people
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: who work out like hardcore that you can't possibly be
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: ripped as a vegan and our stuff you should know.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Listener Doyle Wolfgang van Frankenstein, the guitarist for the Misfits.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: He is just vegan to the core and he is
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: totally ripped, and in fact, he has his own protein
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: powder called vegan monster protein where you can get ripped
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: yourself if you want to and still be a vegan.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: I think ripped vegan is that's got to already be
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: a band name.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Oh I wouldn't. Yeah, maybe that's his sideban his folk
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: side band.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Ripped vecan. You might have a vitamin B twelve deficiency
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: if you are a vegan, because plants don't have B twelve.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: I think fifty two percent of vegans are B twelve deficient,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: seven percent of vegetarians, and if you're a meat eater,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: you have a less than one percent of being B
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: twelve deficient.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: And that's a big deal too. I mean, like that
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: is a well known problem for vegans and vegetarians because
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: B twelve is used for red blood cell production, cell
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: wall production, nerve function, DNA production, and it's just not
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: in plants. It's in meat, it's in fish, it's in dairy.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: So you really have to pay attention to that and
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: basically take B twelve supplements all the time to make
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: sure you don't become deficient because it's not good.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Here's one thing though, and this is
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: something that was controlled for BMI. Even if you're a
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: vegetarian or vegan, you have a kind of a remarkably
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: a remarkable statistical risk or higher risk I guess, of
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: getting bone fracture than meat eater, and especially when it
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: comes to your hips, the risk of hip fracture. With vegetarians,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: you have a twenty five percent higher risk of fracturing
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: your hip as a vegetarian controlling for BMI again, and
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: vegans one hundred and thirty one percent higher chance of
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: hip fracture.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I so part of it is that B twelve deficiency,
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: because B twelve helps produce bone and so bone density.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: But I also wondered if vegans typically get less protein
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: and therefore have less muscle mass on average. Obviously you
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: can get ripped as a vegan, but not everyone does.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: If you're more susceptible to falling, like you can lose
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: your balance more easily because you have slightly less muscle
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: mass than a meat eater, and then with less bone density,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: if you do fall, you're more likely to break a bone.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Just my Yeah, I wonder, Yeah, yeah, I did mention cancer.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: You know, I think we all often talk about like
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: heart attack and stroke and stuff like that by eating
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: too much red meat. But cancer is another factor that
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: I sort of briefly mentioned, but if you're a vegetarian
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: or a vegan, you have at ten to eighteen percent
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: lower risk of cancer than meat eaters. Although All calls
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: All calls mortality. That's another good band name. Man, that's
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: three band names.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: All Mortality, Pekish, and peakd All calls.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: See that can't be our band name because I can't
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: even say it. At the end of the show, All
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: cause mortality was not different, which is surprising between vegetarians
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: and meat eaters and vegans.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, another thing that surprised me is that vegetarians have
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: a twenty percent higher risk of having a hemorrhagic stroke.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: So we should say all of this data came from
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: a twenty twenty one analysis of this British cohort of
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: sixty five thousand Brits that have been followed around since
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: the nineties. So they managed to look at twenty thousand vegetarians,
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: so this is a pretty robust study and they found
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: that they have a twenty percent higher risk of stroke.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: They couldn't they couldn't determine that for vegans. I think
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: they only had like twenty five hundred in this cohort
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: but for stroke at least, they weren't able to figure
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: out how that affects vegan, and you would assume that
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: it would be even an even higher percentage for me.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: But a hemorrhagic hemorrhagic stroke is where blood vessels in
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: your brain start bleeding. Again, that would make sense because
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: B twelve helps fortify sell walls, and I would think
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: the lack of red blood cell production would have something
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: to do with that too. So I think what we're
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: trying to say the upshot is is it's not just
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: like a slam dunk that you're going to be healthier
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: or your lifetime health outcomes are automatically going to be better.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: But it's still I mean, it's just if your overall
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: or sorry, if you're all dash cause mortality is going
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: to be the same, then I don't know, I think
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: that kind of makes an argument to eat whichever makes
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: you feel best.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just a weird stat Yeah all dash cause Yeah,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't explain that. Maybe someone will
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: have some more information on that. But earlier we did
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: promise an entire section on the invironmental impact of eating
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: animals because that is yet another reason and you know,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: obviously people have all kinds of reasons, and it's usually
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: a combination of all these things. But we were learning
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: just it's become plainly obvious more and more this isn't
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: the kind of thing. I think that, especially in America,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: people like to look at a lot in the past,
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: but it seems like in the last like fifteen years
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: or so, people are sounding the alarm like, hey, besides
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: ethical concerns and health and all that other stuff, like
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: raising animals is to eat is kind of a or
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: the way we do it as a disaster for the environment.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's a lot of misleading stats out there
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: that compare the amount of kilograms of greenhouse gas emissions
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: compared to the kilograms produced of something. Right, that doesn't
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: make any sense because kilogram of broccoli is a lot
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: less as far as food being spread among people kilogram
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: two point two pounds of beef. Right, you can feed
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: way more people with two point two pounds of beef
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: than you can with two point two pounds of broccoli.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: So I get exactly at best. Yeah, But so some
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: people have said, well, let's just alter it a little bit,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: so we'll measure the kilograms of greenhouse gas emissions for
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: every thousand calories produced, and so that makes it a
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: lot more apples to apples comparison. But even still, when
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: you alter it like that, the numbers essentially come out
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: the same, which is that meat production has a much
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: larger carbon footprint than almost any kind of plant production,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: although there are some surprises like, for example, your beloved
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: dark chocolate has a larger carbon footprint than producing poultry
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: or pork chuck. How do you feel about your dark
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: chocolate assault on top of it?
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: Now, I didn't kill that chocolate. You know, coffee and
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: chocolate are two pretty notorious you know, environmental disasters as
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: well on the on the non meat side for sure.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: For sure. The reason why, apparently is demand. There's so
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: much demand for chocolate that the deforestation that results to
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: create more fields for cocoa production, that that just is
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: what's giving it such a huge footprint. And I think
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: coffee is relatively the same.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: Overall.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Though.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: I found a twenty nineteen study from Sustainability the Journal,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: and they basically said thirty vegetarians have thirty three percent
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: lower greenhouse gas emissions based on their diet than a
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: vegan than meat, and a vegan diet has fifty three
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: percent lower greenhouse gas emissions. It's just that's just how
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: it goes.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you're like, well, I like eating some meat,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: the biggest s afenders there are beef, lamb and mutton.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that was weird.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Beef produces sixty kilograms of greenhouse gas per kilogram, and
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: a kilogram of poultry is only six. But you compare
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: that to a kilogram with just some English peas, that's
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: under one kilogram of greenhouse gas emissions produced. So you
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: might think that as far as water consumption goes, the
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: plants would far outpace like a meat diet because you
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: got a water vegetables. But generally there are just a
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: few plant based foods that have a bigger water footprint
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: than beef.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, beef is just the worst offender of all, but livestock.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: Raising livestock in general, apparently one fifth to one quarter
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: of all the water used by humans goes to raising livestock,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: which is nuts. But the reason why is because not
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: only do you need water to keep that head of
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: cattle alive until you decide to kill it, you also
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: need water to grow the grain that you feed that
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: head of cattle. So they're just consuming all over the place,
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: especially as far as water is concerned.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and just so you know, there are like zero
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: sort of vegetables that out paste beef. The two that
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: do out paste beef that I was referring to our
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: chocolate and almonds.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and who considers an almond of vegetable? Come on,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: give it up.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: And I think as far as lamb and mutton go,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: the two other biggest defenders in the meat category, only cashews, pistachios,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: and hazel nuts consume more water to produce than lamb
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: and mutton.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: Hazel Nuts are so great, far and away the best.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Nut, you think, not the ground nut.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: I haven't had one yet. Well, peanuts apparently are a
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: ground nut. I have not had the bombara ground nut yet,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: so I should wait and reserve judgment.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, peanuts they grow underground.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Right, Yep, they're a ground nut.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: I can just see Jimmy Carter holding a big thing
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: of peanuts and roots with dirt falling off of them.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: All right, Pete and God bless that man.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: That's right. The US maintains about nine billion, nine billion
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: livestock to get the meat that it needs or wants.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: I guess is the better way to say it. And
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: if that grain went to humans, it'd be enough for
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: eight hundred and forty million people that have plant based diets.
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: And there was another thing that I came across that
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: I was kind of surprised by totally makes sense, is
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: if we en mass as a species, humans essentially abandoned
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: livestock production, beef production, or meat production in favor of
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: a plant based diet. Just basically globally, the chance of
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: communicable diseases developing would drop drastically because seventy five percent
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: of emerging communicable diseases are zoonotic, which means humans get
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: them from animals, and we make our closest contact with
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: animals through the livestock industry.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and a petting zeus.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, as long as it wasn't grown in
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: a lab, you can kiss communicable diseases goodbye.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The other environment little disaster of raising livestock, and
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: this is more and more lately, is the habitat destruction
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: to raise all these animals. You're talking about extinction of
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: plant and animal species and thousands more being threatened in
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: the year's upcoming because of habitat destruction. And it's also
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: true for some kinds of agriculture. You know, we've talked
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: about palm oil cultivation being a big problem for a
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: lot of stuff, specifically orangutang populations or at least by example,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: but beef, once again, is the biggest factor. They drive
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: forty Beef drives forty percent of tropical deforestation globally, whereas
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: palm oil and soy, which are two sort offenders on
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: the other side, are only eighteen percent combined.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: That's all just eighteen percent of deforestation.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean the one takeaway here is beef
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: beef bad.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: It's what's for dinner and what ruined the planet.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's it's far and away leading the
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: way in all all the bad categories.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: You know, it really does.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: So.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is we've just kind of touched
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: the surface, especially on the environmental impact. There's a lot
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: to dig into there if that interested you. But I
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: feel like we gave some good reasons for people to
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: adopt a plant based diet. I don't know if I'm
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: going too fully, but i'd like to think it's I'm
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: kind of part way there already.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I eat more vegetables now. I eat way less
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: red meat than I used to. Yeah, for just like
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: all the reasons that we talked about.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've cut my four quarter pounders with cheese every
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: day in half and I eat both halves. Since Chuck
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: kind of laughed at my last joke, I think everybody
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: that means we should probably slog along to listener Mayil.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: That was a real laugh. That was an oh Josh laugh.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I love those two.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: All right, This this from a smithy because of us.
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, I saw this one.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, I've always had a bit of an interest
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: in metalworking, and as of about five years ago, i've
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: had an interest in your show. I'd say your show
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: has been the longest running podcast of my life. Actually,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: I remember listening to your episode about blacksmithing four years
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: ago and that kind of set off the domino effect
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: of me getting really into blacksmithing as a hobby. I'm
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: definitely one of those that like to collect hobbies, with
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: most passing in about six months and I never pick
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: it up again. But not true with blacksmithing. I've stuck
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: with it since your episode came out, and I'd like
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: to say I've come a long way with it. I've
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: attached to a few pictures of my work, which is
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: very good, by the way, starting with early works and
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: all the way to the two I completed about a
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: week ago. I thought you might be interested in seeing
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: how your show kicked off one of my favorite hobbies
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: I've ever had, so thanks for that. And that is
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: from Tate Avent and you can find Tate just look
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: up Tater makes t a I t E R m
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: a k e s and check out Tate's work.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: Well, thanks a lot, Tate. That is awesome. Congratulations on
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: your awesome hobby getting so good at it, and we
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: really appreciate you letting us know that we had some
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: sort of small, tiny impact on you. We love hearing
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: that kind of thing. If you want to be like
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Tate and let us know that we had some small,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: tiny impact on you, please send it via email to
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.
• 53:20
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