Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #247: Cancer and Fenbendazole: Could Parasites Be a Symptom, Not the Cause?

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Episode #247: Cancer and Fenbendazole: Could Parasites Be a Symptom, Not the Cause? · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_04: And by about the fifth month, she was cancer free.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: They're taking these um over-the-counter antiparasitics and they're reporting healing.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_04: And she remained breast cancer free for the duration.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_04: The important thing was she had no side effects.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is such an amazing product.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: What kept us from having cancer before modern times?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everybody, welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Cena McCullough, and I'm here with our favorite farmer Joel Salatin.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Today is a very special episode because we have Dr.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: William Suppel on our program.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: He just wrote this book called Cancer is a Parasite.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Kill It with the Safe Over-the-Counter Antiparasitic Fenbendazole.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great read.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I read the entire book.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: I have lots of questions, some challenges, but Dr.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Suppel is amazing.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: He has a PhD.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: He's a neuroscientist who contributed foundational work on brain stem mechanics of behavior and midline cellarbellar involvement in learning memory and emotion.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: His research was instrumental in identifying brain stem and cerebellar sites of learning and memory, as well as brain stem mechanisms of complex emotional state.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: He received a BA in psychology from Maris College and a PhD from Dartmouth College.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the program, Dr.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Steppel.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Great to be here.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, a lot of people aware of this topic because it's been going around social media for a while now, where there's people who are saying that they have cancer, different types of cancer, different stages of cancer.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they're taking these over-the-counter antiparasitics and they're reporting healing from it.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you've actually published a paper on this, if I'm not mistaken.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So what I want to do first, though, is jump into how did you even get involved with this topic as a neuroscientist?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it it was definitely a necessity as the mother of invention situation.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_04: So back in the fall of 2021, my mother-in-law went into the hospital.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_04: She was 83 for what appeared to be a bowel obstruction, uh, which it was, but in the course of doing the imaging, they found that she had metastatic breast cancer everywhere, her liver, lungs, uh, bones.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_04: It was so widespread in her bones that they stopped counting the uh the extent of the of the infiltration.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_04: So she had decided, you know, at 83, she had lived a complete and fulfilled life, and she didn't want to go through the horrors of chemotherapy.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_04: So she decided to just be released to hospice to go home.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_04: Well, at the more or less as a happy accident, I happened to be reading something about stomach cancer on Dr.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_04: Mercola's site.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_04: And there was a comment that that caught my eye.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_04: It said, try fenbendazole.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_04: It cured my prostate cancer.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: And that's really all it took to start pulling the thread to to where we are today.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_04: So I looked into fenbendazole, which seems like a scary, you know, big pharma word, right?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_04: It's it most people can't pronounce it.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it uh I started to look into the mechan into the mechanisms, the anti anti-cancer mechanisms.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_04: And it's mostly preclinical data, meaning uh petri dish, test tube, uh cell cultures, and animal data.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_04: But it was very compelling uh in terms of how effective it was in killing all different types of cancers.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_04: So um, you know, the on the son-in-law, so I passed it by my wife and her siblings, and it was decided that um she had nothing to lose.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_04: It looked like it was a relatively safe thing to do.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_04: So um I went down to the local tractor supply, which is an animal supply store, and bought some fenbendazole.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_04: It's actually an animal, a doggy dewormer.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_04: So I bought it and I took three packets over three days myself, and it didn't kill me.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, I had really no reaction at all.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_04: And then I sent some down to my wife.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_04: We figured we figured a 50% genetic match to her mother that you know, if she didn't have any reaction, chances are my mother-in-law wouldn't either.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_04: And we didn't excuse me, we didn't want to make a sick woman sicker.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_04: So there was no reason not to try it.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um so my mother-in-law, she was released from the hospital.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_04: She was so bad in such dire straits that she was administered last rites in the hospital because they weren't sure she would make the two-mile ride back to her home from the hospital.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_04: That's how bad she was.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_04: So uh over the next few days, her husband started to mix a packet of fenbendazole into her daily yogurt.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_04: And after a couple weeks of doing this every day, once a day, um she started to look better.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_04: Her activity level increased.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um she was eating.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_04: And after about a month, three weeks to a month, she fired hospice because she didn't need them anymore.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_04: At about the two-month period, she was strong enough, taking Fen Ven every day and no other treatments, to go back to the oncologist who had more or less written her off.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_04: So obviously, he was surprised to see her.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_04: So he did some diagnostic testing, primarily a blood tumor marker, and found that the level that it was in the hospital was 316.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_04: When she got it tested two months later after just taking fenbendazole, it was more or less in half of that.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_04: So we knew from the blood tumor marker um measurements that fenben was working.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: So she continued to take it over the next three or four months.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_04: And by about the fifth month, she was cancer free.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_04: And she remained breast cancer free, you know, for the duration.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_04: Well, the important thing was she had no side effects, which was the amazing thing, which was what why she didn't want to do traditional chemotherapy and radiation from the start, was because of the side effects.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_04: So there were no side effects with fenbendazole.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_04: Now, at some point during the six-month period, she did have uh a couple fulvestrant shots, which are um estrogen receptor blockers, which obviously would not put anybody into remission.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_04: They would just kind of help out the process.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_04: And she did have spot radiation on two spots on her spine that were causing problems, pain, and those resolved very quickly.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_04: So it's she just didn't use fen ben, she did have two other traditional treatments, but they wouldn't cause the uh the remission that she experienced.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: So that's how I got into it.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_04: And then to news of her recovery spread.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: So first it was family members wanted to know how she did it.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_04: So my wife and I had to explain, um, tell the story that I just told.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_04: And then it became friends of friends, and then complete strangers calling us to find out how did she do it.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: So we could see that, see the writing on the wall that this was going to be a full-time job.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_04: So I had heard about Substack, and I looked into how to do it, start a Substack publication, primarily just to tell her story.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_04: So I didn't have to continue to say the same thing over and over again.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_04: Well, in the in October of um 2022, I actually launched that on my mother's birthday, who had died of uh cervical cancer in 2023.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_04: No, 2003.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_04: So um I published my mother-in-law's story, and then what started to happen was other people would say, hey, it worked for me as well.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: So now I was starting to get these other case reports with all different types of cancer: uh, lung cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, renal cancer, uh even cancer in animals, veterinary cancer, dogs, cats.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um so it it became a thing.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_04: So it it it there was this whole hidden community of people out there who were self-treating their cancers uh with fenbendazol.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: And what was interesting was that most of them were not in the situation that my mother-in-law was, where she she didn't try anything else before.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_04: She just wanted, she didn't want to do traditional treatment.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_04: Most of the case reports that I received were people who had gone through traditional protocols with radiation and chemo, and more or less had been told by their oncologists that there's nothing more we can do for you.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_04: Go home and get your affairs in order.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_04: Then they tried fenbendazol, and that's what worked.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_04: So the, you know, the it's there's a extensive literature out there on fenbendazole and other drugs like mobendazole and iromectin, both antiparasitics that synergize with traditional treatments.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_04: And the mechanisms are pretty interesting, how that works.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_04: So basically that's how I got into it.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, as far as writing the book, I was kind of waiting for an expert to write this book.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, my in the January of 2025, I was saying that to my wife, that you know, it's not looking like someone's gonna step up to the plate and write the book that needs to be be written.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_04: And she said, Well, you're the expert, you should write it.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: So I did.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_04: So that's where we are today.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So so just to make sure, I mean, I so I'm a livestock farmer, uh, and so this is not this is not um, whatever, license for human consumption.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: You you you it's um so uh how akin is I mean, we've we've heard a lot about Ivomectin, you know, during the COVID thing.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh how closely related is this to um I mean we we don't even use we don't even use uh any of these things on our animals.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: At at our farm, we use uh Shackley basic H if we've got um you know uh parasites in the cows.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean stuff it's drinkable.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um how closely related is this to ivomectin?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's a different class of drug.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_04: You know, they're they're both related in that they're both antiparasitics.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_04: Ivoromectin has totally different mechanisms than does uh fenbendazole.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: But what's interesting about fenben, I mean, you can buy fenbendazole for cattle in a 50-pound bag, and you you throw it on the feed, so it's called uh safeguard.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and I've got a picture on my sub stack of a guy sitting on a stack of these talking about uh uh something else.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_04: But basically the point is that the the dose is the the the margin of safety is great because they just dump 50-pound bags on feed for animals.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: Again, it's cattle, it's the mechanism works the same whether it's a it's an an animal or a human because biology is biology for the most part.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_04: And the reason I mentioned why it works in canine cancer as well is it's a it's a doggy dewormer, but it doesn't treat the species, it treats the condition.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_04: So cancer and parasites have the same structural vulnerability to fenbendazole, and that's why it works.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_04: So to go back to the mechanism, which I don't think we've discussed, is uh the way fenbendazole kills parasites, it has 11 different ways that it works.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_04: But the primary way that most people know about is it binds selectively to the parasite and the cancer cell microtubule.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_04: And what it does is it it initiates a process called depolymerization, which basically means it breaks them apart, effectively killing the cell because it can't get nutrients and can't excrete waste products.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_04: And the parasite cell and cancer cells share the same structural vulnerability.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's almost like it's designed that way.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_04: And that's why I call the book Cancer as a parasite, is because when I started to look at, try to reject the hypothesis that cancer is not a parasite, I couldn't do it.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_04: So that doesn't mean that cancer is a creepy crawly bug or a worm, it means that it has the characteristics of a parasite, most notably that it vulner parasites in cancer are vulnerable to fenbendazole.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: And the reason because the reason why that's important is it explains the lack of side effects.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: So with traditional chemotherapy, it they'll target like fast dividing cells, which include um hair follicles and um the bone marrow producing um um blood cells.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: So fen, which causes the side effects that that are aversive.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_04: With fenben, it selectively picks out the parasite cell or the cancer cell from a crowd and kills it.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it doesn't harm healthy cells at all.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_04: So that's the beauty of it, and that's why it works so well, especially after traditional treatments have failed.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_04: But to answer your specific question, uh Joel, there's a lot of different brands of uh antiparasitics, and they work slightly differently, but they all have the same pharmacological backbone, which is attacking the uh microtubules.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so this is not an antibiotic, it's a parasiticide.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's uh it's it's interesting that there is a a real aggressive effort right now within the you know livestock veterinary community to um, and I I think I think it's just passed pretty much everywhere where you know a farmer used to be able to go in and get um you know la 200, you know, get get uh antibiotics off a hardware off a farm store shelf, and now it it requires a veterinary's veterinarian's prescription.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um course there's a lot there's a lot of scuttle butt you know within the farming community.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is just you know uh trying to pad the pad the coffers of the veterinarians, you know, and and all this.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: But uh as you see the issue, um this product is not subject to that kind of regulatory um uh regulatory whatever push within the within the within the cattle industry.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it not yet.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, uh I'm I'm sorry to hear that.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: You know, nothing happens as a coincidence.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_04: So uh no, that so most people buy their uh fenbendazole on Amazon.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_04: So it costs, you know, you can get a hundred-day supply for about$48.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_04: And it's a white powder uh that comes with a pre-measured spoon, and you know, you the way that people take it primarily is to sprinkle it on heavily buttered toast because but it's a uh hydrophobic substance, so you need to have you need to take it with a meal and a fat.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_04: And the easiest way to take it is um on buttered toast.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_04: So, and my wife and I take it as a preventative, you know, once once every three months for three consecutive days.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, we have, you know, other than age, we have uh, you know, a couple genetic risk factors, which I'm not sure that there's genetic risk factors are a thing, but that's a different discussion.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um so uh uh because of our age, we we feel it's prudent to to take it as a preventative because it doesn't bother us and it's cheap.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_04: And we can talk later about you know why fenbendazol appears to prevent cancer as well.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: Uh uh as a uh result of doing the research in the book, it became very clear that there were powerful experiments in nature being per performed that actually prove that uh antiparasitics prevent cancer as well.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_04: And we can talk about that in a minute.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_04: Did you did you have any other questions regarding the mechanism or the safety of fenbendazole?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um I I know it's kind of too hard, it's very hard to believe that um there's such a powerful drug that if not cures cancer, certainly eradicates it when traditional treatments can't.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_04: And the a lot of people kind of have like this instinctual um feeling that they don't want to cure cancer, they meaning big cancer, they meaning people who have a vested interest in uh the status quo.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: And what's interesting is in the course of doing the research for the book, I found that in 1975 uh it was discovered by a group in Belgium that an antiparasitic very similar to fenbendazol cured cancer in rats, and they got so excited that they actually renamed it.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you can see that onchodizol.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_04: So like oncology, the root word onko means tumor in Greek, so they renamed fenbendazol onchodazol in anticipation of releasing it as a cure for cancer.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um that was in 1976, and I found the paper for that.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_04: Uh what was interesting is that paper just became uh invisible.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't cited when it should have been cited, and I spend a chapter in the book talking about the scientific publication uh detective work that I did to prove that that particular paper identifying onchodazole as a cure for cancer was summarily suppressed.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um so what happens with fenbendazole and antiparasitics is they get discovered, suppressed, rediscovered in about an every 25 to 30 year period.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_04: A couple weeks back, you may have seen after the book came out that um the story making the rounds was that the CIA had covered up a cure for cancer that they discovered in 1950.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_04: Did you hear about this?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_04: So there's all kinds of declassified papers all the time, and a lot of them don't have meaning until they do.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_04: So when my book came out, uh, investigative reporter who had found that particular memo from the CIA, it was talking about how it was just a memo by a low level analyst.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if you could see it.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: And it talks about how in the 1930s, Soviet scientists were experimenting and discovering that animal antiparasitics cured cancer.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_04: And this paper, this memo was from 1950, the CIA memo.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it, you know, they were just reporting on what they had found, what other spies had found.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_04: They didn't really have any context to interpret it.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_04: So they just kind of wrote up the memo and filed it away to be to subsequently discovered and declassified in 2016.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_04: And then in 2026, when the book came out, now it had meaning that this is an antiparasitic that cures cancer that was discovered yet in 1930.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_04: So this has been around for a long time.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_04: And the reason is it gets discovered, suppressed, rediscovered because the effect is so powerful.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: So what we're hoping now is that with the change in attitude and direction at health and human services, that there can be a real move forward in actually curing cancer.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we're not this stupid.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, if I can figure this out, right, people who are much brighter than me can figure it out as well.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_04: And it's time for medicine in general and oncologists and all these big cancer centers to start incorporating these inexpensive yet highly effective side effect-free drugs in their protocols.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I had lots of questions.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: So in the book, you talk about how the medical establishment has dismissed, ignored, or suppressed the findings.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you talked about three of your early case studies, um, your case reports were published in a peer-reviewed canceled cancer journal, um, case reports in oncology.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And wasn't that um wasn't that article retracted?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_04: It was just retracted the end of uh January 2026.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: And why did they retract it?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_04: Well, there's a lot of reasons to retract an article.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_04: And one is, you know, the results are bad, uh, fraud, or something called um undisclosed financial interests.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_04: So Dr.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_04: William Macus was the the uh lead author on that paper, and he he cures people with fenbendazole.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_04: So after the paper was published, uh the the editor-in-chief obviously got heat because it was a popular paper, it was making the rounds, and they had to find a reason to retract it.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_04: So the primary uh investigator that I dealt with was the third author, Peric Martinez, and he did excellent work.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: You know, he obtained all the records from all the uh three case studies that they published because I gave it to them.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_04: They were my case studies from my Substack.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_04: One of them was my mother-in-law.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_04: So the he analyzed all the medical records that he got, you know, from with permission from all three people, and he did an excellent job.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_04: There was nothing scientifically wrong with it.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_04: The only thing, the reason why it was retracted, is because of a technicality that Macis didn't disclose that he treats people with fenbendazole and actually cures them.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_04: So that was the problem.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_04: It was political science, not real science.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_04: And what's interesting is the the editor-in-chief of that journal, Clinical Case Reports in Oncology, actually runs the City of Hope Cancer Center.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, the irony is thick and you can't make this stuff up.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_04: So they retracted a paper that showed an agent cured cancer to protect their own financial interests.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_04: Basically, that's it.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_04: And there's no money in FenBen because it's off patent.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_04: You cannot patent something that is has the patent has expired.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_04: And there, you know, there's really never going to be uh phase three clinical trials on this because who is gonna pony up the money to do that?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_04: Hopefully the government will.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_04: But what's happening now is people are doing what I call community trials by self-treating their own cancers.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_04: And what my Substack and other Substacks are finding is that this stuff really works.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_04: And it's it works in all different types of people, all different types of conditions, um, all solid tumors.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know, that the jury's still out as to whether it works with uh blood cancers, but ivrmectin may be better for that.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it really works.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_04: And what Joel was getting at before is are they going to try to um put these over-the-counter animal antiparasitics behind a prescription?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: And my guess is they probably will try to do that.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um people should behave accordingly and kind of stock up on FenBen if they can.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_04: Certainly we've done that.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_04: So the the what's interesting is with when you see this happen day in and day out.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I've got a couple people who have pancreatic cancer, and you know, that's a death sentence.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_04: They're self-treating with fenven.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_04: They're you they're they're throwing the kitchen sink at it because they don't care what works, they just want something to work.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_04: And they're doing traditional treatments as well, and they're having a very good response.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_04: So the the whole idea here is you know to save people's lives.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_04: And the person who has the most incentive to save a life is the person who's affected with cancer.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_04: So that's why I wrote the book.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's not to twist anyone's arm or to say you have to do this, it's just you know, here are the facts, you know, evaluate them for yourself.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there's no side effects from taking fenben.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_04: So most people who are being treated for a solid tumor cancer should be taking some sort of adjuvant uh adjuvant um fenbendazole, ivermectin, or mabendazole therapy, depending on their own situation.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and Dr.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Peter McCullough just came out with a um with a study.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was a patient-reported study where they used um ivermectin and menbenzidol.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: And he said it was a it was on about 200 patients.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in men, the main cancer was prostate, in women, the main cancer was breast, and then there was also lung cancer.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a third of the patients were in remission, and two-thirds of them had active cancer at the time.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he talked about how 16% of them had a regression, like um a metastasis had improved in 16% of them.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: And he's calling now for a large placebo-controlled randomized trial.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like he is trying to push this forward and get like the NIH to conduct these trials and take it seriously.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And according to him, um, he said that um what he thinks is happening in um like oncology and you know, the clinics is what's called Book and Bill, where he said that the cancer centers can actually purchase chemotherapy and then they resell it to the patient and the insurance company pays for it, and the cancer center makes a percent income for administering that chemotherapy.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: So to him, he said this makes sense that the administration um would prefer, like whoever's administering the treatments has incentive to kind of use these expensive chemotherapy pre chemotherapy treatments, um, and they're disincentivized to use these cheap, generic, repurposed drugs.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, is that you know, you've researched this.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, your book is so well researched.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: You have really spent a lot of time uncovering what's happened here.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is that something that you would agree with?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like his statements, are you seeing that?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is this really is the suppression, um, the ignoring the findings, dismissing the findings, does it all come down to money?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um it does, but that's really not the point of the book.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_04: So we we all know that.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there's no sense beating up on the status quo.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_04: The whole idea is to convince the status quo that they can make just as much money curing people as uh compared to what they're doing now, which is a slow walk to death with the treatments that they have.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_04: So uh the the whole book and bill model, you know, that again, I'm not an MD, I'm not an oncologist, I'm a PhD.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, we don't make money.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_04: So we don't operate in that space.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_04: The um the whole idea that um I I think most oncologists, and I actually have a whole chapter in my book about this, most oncologists would use fenbendazol if they knew about it, but because of the constant discovery, suppression, rediscovery, they don't know about it.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_04: Unless they're taught about it, they don't know.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, unfortunately, a a lot of um doctors and oncologists now are getting their continuing education from drug reps.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_04: So the drug reps come in and tell them what's what, and basically they they um pervert the MD into a glorified drug rep.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, that's the uh I'm not here to slam medicine, but people see that.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, seven out of ten Americans are on some kind of a pharmaceutical, so it it's working.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know the parallels in farming are so are so dramatic.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the average farmer um doesn't know what compost is.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you you mentioned compost and it's like it's from Pluto.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: And right now, 80, 85 percent of all farmers of all decisions that farmers make are based on the advice of a salesman.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah everybody's out to say, you know, I've I've got the answer for you.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in fact, you know, and and that's the same way in the alternative, you know, field.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: I get I get, I don't know, uh, you know, pitches weekly, uh, not daily, maybe, but certainly weekly from somebody that has, I can, you know, I can do this for your soil, I can do this for your, I mean, everybody's got a magic elixir fixer.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, it it's great that people are working on things, it also so crowds the field, it it's a very confusing thing.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're looking seeking for an answer, the the crowded field makes you dubious about about any of it.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, the just a week or 10 days ago, I was meeting with a uh holistic doctor, and she more or less said, nowadays you have to be your own doctor or you won't live to regret it.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_04: So that was a very powerful statement from an MD.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I mean, obviously, my wife and I have been doing that this for years.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_04: We we got on, you know, we kind of lost faith in the medical profession.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_04: I did specifically when statins were being pushed on me, and I knew I knew what BS that was.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, I actually dropped two doctors because they kept saying, you've got to go on statins.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, no, I don't.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_04: And that I use that as kind of a litmus test as to whether this person was going to kill me or not.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, to this day I don't take any pharmaceuticals.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, I take high dose vitamin D, which is actually my next book, you know, the power of vitamin D.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and you know, that is so widespread vitamin D deficiency, and it's such an easy fix that the that book was uh really more up my alley, more my in my expertise.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm a big believer in high dose vitamin D for what ails you.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: So this question might seem a little bit um abstract or out there, but as I'm reading the book, something came to mind.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to run it by you because you you have well, you have researched um, you know, Fen Ben, um much in much more detail than I have.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: So here was something that I came up with.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: You talk about how a parasitic infection is an unavoidable consequence of human behavior.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're exposed to them, even organic produce, you know, fertilizers and manures, they're they're pretty much seems like they're everywhere.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: The CDC says that people in the US are infected with one or more parasites and that it creates an undiagnosed subclinical state of chronic inflammation, and that's a risk factor for cancer and other autoimmune conditions.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm thinking, you know, I'm a I'm a researcher myself and um, you know, background in physiology, and we're we're constantly learning more about the body and how it works and learning things that we're unlearning, let's say, things that we thought we knew.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we're always pushing the boundary.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I started thinking, okay, you have an antiparasitic drug and it seems to be getting people into remission or sometimes fully curing cancer.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's fantastic.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wondering if we're accusing the parasite.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying you're doing this, I'm saying as it's going out there in society, and right now that's the buzz.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's let's take these antiparasitics.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're all gotta clean these parasites, these worms and such out of us.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I started to think about it on a couple different levels.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Number one is there is um helmenic therapy, you know, like um worm therapy.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: And this is when, and this is in the scientific literature where you deliberately infect a patient with what we would call parasitic parasitic worm.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they do this to treat different types of conditions, all the way from IBS to MS, asthma, you know, you name it.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: And there's been success in doing that.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we know that there's in the literature, this um has been published, peer-reviewed published.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's reports of um helmetic therapy being able to lower inflammation, increase microbial diversity and abundance of bacteria, even lactobacillus bacteria.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: And now we have evidence that, let's say, worms, for example, are bioaccumulators, that they can sequester things like heavy metals and like microplastics, for example, so that it can be excreted from the body.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: And even evidence that sometimes tapeworks, tapeworms can accumulate heavy metals at concentrations that are like 10 to 100 times higher than the host can accumulate the toxins.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: In environmental science, we see something very similar where oftentimes one of the best ways to measure if there's water pollution is to measure the worms and the fish instead of like the tissues of the fish itself.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: So knowing that, I'm thinking, okay, how in naturopathic um circles would we treat parasites?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: We often treat them with different herbs like um wormwood, garlic, coriander.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: But if you look at what these what we think these natural substances are doing, they're actually a lot of them are actually um chelating and sequestering heavy metals, right?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of them are actually upregulating detoxification pathways to help you remove the heavy metals.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I looked at the actions of, for example, um fimbenzidol, it says that it is it doesn't have an anti-inflammatory effect.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, it's an antiparasitic.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: It also increases the expression and activity of P54, strongest, one of the strongest tumor suppressors in the body, um, involved in DNA repair, cell death, like it triggers apoptosis, um, it stops the cells from dividing.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but some of these medications also are helping with detoxification.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: P53 is very important for a detox pathway.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: So my question became is it really the parasite, or is the parasite actually using kind of as we we would think of as a food source, heavy metals and all these other toxins that are actually hurting the body and are actually the physical root cause of the cancer?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: So the worms are there to actually help you.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's more of a symbiotic relationship.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're there, they're eating up heavy metals that maybe you've been exposed to in the food supply or the air.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're eating up microplastics.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: So as long as there's a food source, animals tend to stay around, parasites tend to stay around.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Could it possibly be, and you were theorizing here, is it possible at all that the physical root cause is, you know, more of what some of us think that we're exposed to these toxicities and we have deficiencies that are creating these cancers?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: And for example, a tumor in in some circles is viewed as it is the body sequestering toxins, heavy metals, and things like that to keep them away from vital organs.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: So is it possible that the parasites are there to help remediate, to help eat up these toxins to protect us?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're targeting the parasite, but the they're actually there helping us.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so at the end of the day, it's it to the person who has cancer, the mechanism doesn't matter.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: I fully understand that.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: I've been sick myself, I just wanted to heal and not die.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm just wondering if we're labeling now parasites, not you, the culture.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Have we glommed on to this and we're starting to label them as the culprit?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: But they're really there to help us.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_04: Well, uh, it's a fascinating question.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_04: And again, I'm not a parasitologist, you know, um writing books that I'm not the expert in, which is, I think, a good thing because I can see things.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not blinded by dogma.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_04: So the just two things with two things to start with your question.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_04: First of all, the whole cancer is a parasite theory that has nothing to do with what causes cancer.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_04: That is everything about the nature of cancer, what cancer is.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_04: It behaves like a parasite, antiparasitic drugs kill it, it uses all the defense mechanisms of a parasite, and it actually has pretty interesting uh unknown, lesser known characteristics of parasites that um, for example, cancer has its own biological clock, it does it's not entrained to the host, just like a parasite, and they show chromosomal disorder that only parasites show.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_04: They call it anaploidy.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_04: You know how with the chromosomes, if you see the karyotype, they're all lined up like uh Noah's Ark, the whole 23 pairs.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_04: Well, the uh karyotype of a parasite is disordered, it's a mess.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, it looks very similar to a cancer karyotype disordered, it's a mess.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_04: Some people think that it allows them to adapt to environmental stressors very quickly.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_04: They more more or less have a junk drawer of chromosomes to rapidly put in to evolve to meet the stressor.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_04: So the the my theory about cancer being a parasite deals with what cancer is, not what causes it.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_04: So back to your question, the the whole idea that parasites are performing a symbiotic function is wholly consistent with with uh you know your way of thinking and the whole idea that parasites could be performing this cleanup uh detoxifying uh process.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_04: And but my question with, and I and I don't know about how the helmet theory hel helmet therapy is.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: But I would imagine at some point that the worms need to be killed, right?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like if like if they're in if they are purposely infested, introduced, that they would have to be then dealt with in a way that would involve antiparasitics, and that might be the anti-cancer effect that you're getting.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_04: So some people will what what will happen is because we're infested with parasites, when they take an antiparasitic, that will kill any parasites that they have, primarily in their intestines.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_04: So they might have like loose stools, some diarrhea.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_04: But if people are heavily infested, they might actually have like a detox or a herximer type reaction from all that junk being released into the system and being excreted.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_04: So that is a condition.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_04: And some people with brain parasites can have a serious reaction because the um you know fenbendazole does cross the blood-brain barrier.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're if you have a brain parasite and you kill those, you can develop edema and brain swelling because there's no active way to release that.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_04: So that's something you should be be aware of with fenbendazol.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_04: Mabendazole tends to stay in the gut.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: It it there are some studies showing that it does pass into the blood-brain barrier.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_04: But to kind of dance around your question, I don't really know the answer, but I think it's a it's an issue, it's it's an interesting way of thinking about it.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_04: But I I want to it it dovetails with what I wanted to talk about in terms of fenbendazole and drugs like it being preventative for cancer as well.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_04: So, as a in the process of doing the book, you know, I was looking at the epidemiological incidence of cancer around the world.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_04: And one thing that most people don't realize is that the rich Western countries have twice the cancer incidence of 123 poor countries around the world, primarily.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_04: So I was looking into that, and what what's common with the countries that have a low incidence of cancer is they all of them use antiparasitics on at a population scale to get rid of uh worms.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_04: So India, India, Mexico, um most of Africa, a lot of South America, uh 123 countries, mostly poorer countries, um actually have uh holiday where twice a year they will mass administer drugs like fenbendazole.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_04: The main drug that they use is albendazol.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_04: And they give it um India on February 10th and August 10th.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_04: They have National Deworming Days.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_04: Hallmark probably makes a card for it.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_04: So they administer these drugs to to billions of people, right, across the world to to eradicate, to control.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_04: You can't eradicate parasites, you can control them.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_04: So they do that to control them, and they have half the incidence of cancer that the countries that don't do that have.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_04: So in terms so without so before we had the, I call it the Fen Bendizol lens to look at all these data.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_04: And that you can't say that, well, it's a detection problem, you know, it's diet, environment, genetics.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um it can't be because Mexico, India, Brazil, uh, Saudi Arabia, all these countries are very different in terms of their diet, um, genetics, climate detection level, you know, medical infrastructure.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_04: Those are all going to be small variables, but the common thread in the low cancer incidence countries is that the mass drug administration programs using uh antiparasitics.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_04: So that argues that there is from twice a year, just one pill twice a year, you're picking up an anti-cancer signal that's embedded at the population scale.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_04: So, and it's very in it's very similar to what we found with aspirin.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_04: So you may recall that um low-dose aspirin was given, was recommended for many years, from I don't know when it started, I'll say 1990-ish, as a way to uh lower the c the risk of a heart attack or a stroke.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_04: Low dose aspirin, baby aspirin.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um that was uh mass drug administration.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_04: And what we found was that lo and behold, people who were taking low dose aspirin also had a lower incidence of colorectal cancer.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_04: So that signal was embedded in the larger database.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_04: But when you started to look, well, wait, you know, at the population scale, when everybody is taking these drugs, that signal emerges.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_04: So that's what happened with the uh antiparasitic drugs, is that there's an anti-cancer signal embedded in those cancer incidence data.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_04: And you can't see it unless you know that uh drugs like fenbendazole and albendazole are anti-cancer drugs as well as being antiparasitic drugs.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_04: So that's a so half the incidence of cancer just by taking this pill twice a year, and it's not even targeted at at-risk populations.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like you can imagine if you targeted the elderly, which is where the most cancer happens, you would you would plummet the cancer incidence rate dramatically.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_04: And there's no way that epidemiologists don't know this.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_04: A high school kid could pull up this data from the WHO, it's all who data, it's all out there, you can reanalyze all this, it's all there, and and see the signal.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_04: It's a it's a 50% signal.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_04: You can't miss it.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I just did a t-test to to statistically because you don't need to do statistics.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's like an unbelievable signal that I've never heard of before.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_04: And there's no way it's related to artifact if it's that large.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely no way.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_04: And what really convinced me is I looked at the 22 or 23 countries in the Middle East, which are kind of a homogeneous environmental area.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the diet's very similar, climate obviously similar, uh, genetics relatively similar.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_04: There's one country that doesn't routinely deworm its population, and that's Israel.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_04: Israel has twice the cancer incidence rate of its neighbors.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_04: So that signal is embedded when you do uh more granular analyses.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_04: And then if you look at there's something called migrant studies, which is not in the book, I found out about this later.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_04: If you look at uh people who migrate from a low cancer incidence country like India to a high cancer incidence country like Great Britain, there's a generational shift in cancer incidence rate over time.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_04: So the first generation that migrates from India to the UK has the cancer incidence rate lower like it is in India.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_04: The second generation it's going up higher towards the uh the UK rate, and then the third generation has the high cancer incidence rate of the resident country, the UK.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_04: They've completely dissociated from India.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_04: So now they have the high cancer incidence rate because they're not being exposed to the antiparasitic drugs.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: So what so before FinBin, uh before anti um parasitic drugs came on the market, um we didn't have we didn't have the cancer rates we have today in 1700, 1600, 15 going back as far as we know, or was it cancer and nobody knew it?
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean um if this if this is such an amazing whatever um product, um uh what what kept us from having cancer before modern times?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_04: I think shortened lifespans.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_04: You know, so it if you know if the if life expectancy is 45, you're gonna die of something other than cancer, most likely.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_04: So cancer is definitely an age-related disease.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, something that Cena had said before about there's natural antiparasitics like wormwood, cloves, garlic, that some um some you know medicine men, shamans uh may have known about way back when.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, it it's it's one of those things where you know, if big pharma wants to go out and suppress fenbendazole, there are natural antiparasitics that most likely perform the same way.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I I that's just my my opinion, my suspicion, because the mechanism is probably the same.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_04: If it kills the parasite, it's gonna kill the cancer.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_04: And what's interesting, you know, just to kind of talk about, remember before I said, well, it would the the canine cancer case reports that I get, I publish those because they're important, because it shows that fenbendazole treats the condition, not the species.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_04: Now, all traditional anti-can, all traditional standard of care uh chemotherapy drugs, the taxanes and the finca alkaloids, they're based on the same pharmacological mechanism of fenbendazole.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_04: And fenbendazole came out before they did.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_04: So there is the idea that they could perhaps be knockoffs of fenbendazol.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_04: So once pharma discovered that microtubule disruptors kill cancer cells, they went to school on fenbendazole and then developed their own drugs after the fact that you know kill cancer cells using the microtubule disruptors.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_04: Excuse me.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_04: So the the point is, I'm not sure what point I was making, but anyway, the uh the the reason why that standard of care drugs have all the side effects is they're not specific.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_04: They are they just they disrupt just one mechanism, and that's the microtubules.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like I said before, fenbendazole has 11 different ways that it kills a cancer cell.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_04: Microtubule disruption is just one, it blocks uh the immune cloaking um procedures that cancer cells have to hide from the immune system.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_04: Fenbendazole disrupts uh cancer cell defense mechanisms known as drug efflux pumps, which will pump a toxic substance out of the cancer cell.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um it disrupts its energy, its metabolism, the way it makes energy.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_04: It disrupts how it changes the tumor microenvironment to make it more conducive for the cancer.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like there's temperature changes, electrical changes, and also uh um blood vessels are come need to need to invaginate the the tumor area for it to grow.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_04: So FenBen blocks all of those things.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_04: So the way Fenben kills a cancer cell using all those different mechanisms is the very definition of overkill, and it's why it's effective when standard of care drugs are not.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_04: So, standard of care drugs are one-trick ponies.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_04: The case reports make that absolutely clear that most of those people gave traditional chemo and radiation a chance to work.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_04: It didn't work, they got released home to hospice.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_04: That's when they started taking FenBen and they cured themselves.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_04: So clearly, Fenben works.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_04: And it's it's an amazing.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_04: If I didn't see it myself, I'm as skeptical as anybody, but it's a really empowered empowering message that we don't have to be afraid of cancer anymore.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_04: It it this will hit you in a couple of days.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_04: Hopefully, it does more sooner or later.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_04: That I think most people have like this subthreshold fear of cancer.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, oh, you know, when it happens to somebody, a loved one or someone you know, you say, damn, I hope that doesn't happen to me.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_04: And it's kind of like this helpless, you know, random victimized victim feeling.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_04: But when you have something like Fen Ben in your back pocket, you know, my wife and I take it as a preventative.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_04: But if you are faced with a cancer diagnosis, it doesn't mean you have to do one or the other.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_04: Most people will do both.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_04: But what'll happen in the clinical trials, if they ever do them, is sooner or later you're gonna have an arm in that trial that just has the antiparasitic drug only.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_04: And then they're gonna discover that you only need the antiparasitic drug to cure the cancer, and that's what Big Pharma is afraid of.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_04: So combining it with traditional treatment now is a baby step towards where we're gonna get.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_04: But people now, by self-treating their cancers, are showing us that at a minimum there's a synergistic effect with the antiparasitics because there could be a trace.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, all the people, except my mother-in-law, had a prior experience with standard of care treatment.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_04: So, to be fair to those, there could be this long latency interaction with the standard of care treatment and fenbendazole.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_04: But over time, what you're gonna find is that as soon as they do the the fenbendazole or ivermectin or mebendazole only arm, they're gonna find that it works as well, if not better, than the the synergistic the combination arm.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_04: And that'll be that'll be the uh that'll be the the paradigm shifting, game-changing discovery.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it'd be great if they added another arm to that study where they looked at the herbs, like because I know um several people, and there's documents of this too, that herbs um can also help reverse um cancers, like some of the ones that I mentioned.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it would be interesting if they had an arm where they're doing like the herbal protocol.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, it's listening to you and Joel, I think that's a fascinating point, like to Joel's question as to like why did we have lower cancer rates before these drugs came about?
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing that I've noticed in my research that is a difference is that in like when Big Pharma came about, herbalism went out the door in large part, right?
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: Highly demonized.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, but uh some of these other countries that you're talking about, even some that do the dewarming, in in some of these countries, like herbalism, this what we would call, you know, this alternative medicine, which I call traditional medicine, that's still their first line of defense.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: So some of them are going to herbs first, where in Western culture it's more thought of still as on the fringe.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's getting a better reputation now as we're losing trust in the Western medical system, but it is still largely not consumed by Americans.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's another variable in there that you both have helped me to just connect right now is that we aren't using herbs like God intended us to use them, while some of these other countries with lower incidence of cancer are.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I would love to have another, a third arm of that study to really just test out these herbs.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because as you mentioned, um, you said parasitic infections are managed and not cured.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: These people stay on the antiparasitic drug, correct?
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like for the most part.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like so you you in this book, you lay out beautifully numerous case studies, different types of cancers, different types of protocols that the people used.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, all um taking, you know, fen ben, but different things that they used, like um calcium, vitamin D, uh, vitamin B12, curcumin, milk fistle extract.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's another um compound that helps detoxify the liver, CBD, mushrooms, that they're using these things in combination.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think there's a lot of power in that, and even combining the fen ben with some of these other natural treatments.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: But one of my questions to you was this is a lifelong thing that they're on, right?
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: They don't get off the fen ben.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is that is that correct?
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or am I misunderstanding that?
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard to say.
• 1:03:05
  unknown: Okay.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_04: So what's inter what's interesting is we don't know.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_04: So so a lot of the people when they start Fen Ben, they have the same reaction that I had and my wife had.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_04: Is this gonna kill me?
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_04: You don't know because you know, there's stuff on the internet, you know, that I I think back to when the kids were doing the Tide Pod Challenge nonsense like that.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_04: So it's kind of like you don't really know.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_04: So you kind of hope for the best.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_04: So you kind of have this attitude of, gee, I hope this doesn't kill me.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_04: What that attitude when people start Fen Ben morphs and changes into, I need this to live now.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_04: It's a complete change in the attitude from I can't live without Fen Ben now.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_04: Whether that's true or not, we don't know.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_04: But most people who, once their cancer is eradicated, they have no evidence of disease, they continue to take either the protocol that they've been taking, if it's every day, they continue with that.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_04: They don't want to tempt fate.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_04: Most people will uh become less aggressive in the dosing, maybe take it, you know, three days on, four days off, so they pulse their uh administration.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_04: We really don't know.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_04: And all they know is that they continue to get clean scans, their blood tumor markers are fine, and they don't want to tempt fate by getting off of FenBen.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that's where we really need legitimate research to find out whether you what's the maintenance on that.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_04: Is it that I I I personally I think there are some cancers where once you kill it with Fenben, it's not coming back because of what caused it.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I think cancers that have a genetic basis, like uh triple negative breast cancer, or not triple negative breast cancer, but uh crass mutations, BRAF mutations, I think in those cancers, because there's a specific environmental event that has taken advantage of the genetic predisposition, that as long as you don't have that specific environmental event trigger the cancer again, that it won't come back.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_04: That's just a theory I have.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because some of the people who have had um dramatic effects, I'm thinking of uh metastatic melanoma with a crash uh BRAF mutation.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_04: He once his cancer was eradicated, his blood his tumor markers went to zero and never returned.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_04: This is like three or four years later.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_04: So he's he had a pure curative response.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um And he was in bad shape before he started taking Fen Man.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_04: So he's one of the three case reports that got retracted because he his case was so pure and powerful.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_04: And he's he's actually out there like an apostle telling everybody about Fen Man.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I I hear stories of him.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_04: He's in the St.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_04: Louis area and he's unbelievable.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um so yeah, what was your question again?
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was simply if they had to keep taking it, um which you did a beautiful job answering that.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_04: So the the jury's still out.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, most people say they want to be safe rather than sorry, and until they have any side effects, you know, um they don't.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, one one thing if you do a search for fenbendazole and cancer on Google, uh, the first article that pops up is that it fen ben don't take fenben because it destroys your liver.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_04: So very obscure article.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_04: And what appears to be happening is um with fenbendazole.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_04: So the liver function is, I'm not a uh hepatic doctor, but liver function is primarily measured by the activity of certain enzymes, ALT and AST.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_04: It's kind of like a quick and dirty measure of your liver function.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_04: So when those enzymes are high, um higher than normal, it can be interpreted that your liver is under stress.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_04: Well, your liver can be under stress for a lot of reasons, most often when it's doing its job.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_04: So if you have the flu or cold, your liver enzymes will be up, will be elevated because your liver is clearing out all those dead cells as they're killed.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_04: Likewise, when if you have cancer, and this goes with traditional treatment that kills cells, when it kills the cells and fenbendazole, that when you take fenbendazole and you're killing billions of cancer cells all at once, those need to get cleared from the body, and they that the debris is cleared through the liver eventually.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_04: And that elevated stress is going to change the measured liver enzymes.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_04: And what I've seen primarily in my mother-in-law and and some other people is that the elevation and the transient elevation in the liver enzymes is actually a meter that fen ben is working for you.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_04: So most standard blood tests will have these measures there.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_04: So you can actually track when when you took fenbendazole, the liver is stressed because it's killing the fenbendazole, it's killing all of these cancer cells.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_04: And then despite continuing to take fenben, the liver enzymes return to normal.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_04: So it can't be a primary hepatotoxin if the liver is returning, the function is returning to normal.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_04: It's a transient elevation due to the fen ben killing the cells.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_04: They have to be cleared from the body through the liver, which stresses the liver, the enzymes go up.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_04: Once the cancer cell, the cancer is eradicated, the liver stress workload drops, and that's reflected in the liver enzymes.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's what's happening.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_04: So it's actually a nice meter that it's working for you.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's uh I'm sitting here listening to it.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, it's like um it's like so.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: I work real hard one day and I'm tired.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the so if you don't want to get tired, don't work hard.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's don't the the side effect of working hard is you're gonna get tired.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: So uh if you don't want to get tired, don't work hard.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean it's that kind of uh that kind of crazy thing.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well this has been this has been great.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're about out of time here.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Cena, do you have any last burning thing?
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Or have we have we um uh have we done what we can here on uh on on this particular it's been it's been absolutely fascinating.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh yeah it's I want to go out and I want to go out to tractor supply and get some uh get some safeguard.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_00: For yourself?
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of surreal.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, from a real yeah, it's surreal to actually see it in the store.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's kind of like we have a tractor supply here, and to go down and like look at that and now kind of see the meaning of something like fenbendazol.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_04: And to see it, you were kind of hinting at other cures for cancer.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_04: I think there's a lot of different things that cure cancer.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I think the real medicine is the traditional medicine, you know, the fake medicine is what we where we are now, and this is why eight out of 10 of us have has a chronic disease since you know, more or less in the Fauci era.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_04: We as a population, we are just getting sicker and sicker.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, what do they want?
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_04: 100%?
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_04: Do they want everybody to be on a pharmaceutical?
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we're what we've been doing for the past 50 years has failed.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's no objective measure that could convince a thinking person that we're healthier than we were 50 years ago.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely none.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we're living longer, but what's our quality of life?
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we're fat, we're stupid, you know, we it's unbelievable where where we've gone, where Western civilization has gone.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_04: We are self-extinguishing ourselves.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, I'm not blaming Big Pharma.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_04: I'm blaming, I'm blaming us for allowing it to happen.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_04: The individual who is too intimidated, too lazy, too um has no self-confidence to think for themselves and to be their own doctor.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_04: That's where we're going.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_04: Where you have to be your own doctor.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_04: That doesn't mean you can't have a doctor, an MD as a consultant.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_04: But if you think that they sit up at night wondering how to fix your problem, you have a problem.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_04: So they just they just have too many patients to do that.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm not dinging them.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just saying that's the practical reality.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_04: They have their own lives to live, and you have to live your own life, and you have to be responsible for your own medical care.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_04: And if you if you just turn that over to somebody in a white coat because you feel they're an expert, you're gonna get what you deserve.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's a that's a profound and powerful ending.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's that's tough.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so the question for our uh podcast community is um, are you ready to go out and buy fin bin at the tractor supply uh company?
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh along with your uh chain chain bar oil and uh and and and uh some uh and some bolts and nuts.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's where we are.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that that's that's not a place that you know I think I go for you know uh medical treatment, but it but that's how that's how far our culture has progressed or has has regressed from um you know from uh whatever from from thinking.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, uh can we add in real fast?
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_01: So if to the question, so are you ready to buy the fen ben?
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: But or the herbal equivalence, right?
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah, add in there.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_01: The you know the traditional medicine that we know works as well.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_01: So one or the other, are you ready to basically do a preventative, is what we're saying.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you um for for being with us, um William.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been a fascinating thing.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope I hope a million people buy the book and go through the research that you've gone through.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a gift, it's a gift to humanity what you brought to us.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_00: We thank you for it.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we thank all of you for joining us on another Beyond Labels podcast, and we look forward to joining with you next week.