Latest / Foul Territory / Former Pirates GM Neal Huntington on the small market struggle, Rev sharing, Pitt v. Cleveland

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Former Pirates GM Neal Huntington on the small market struggle, Rev sharing, Pitt v. Cleveland · Foul Territory

0:00
Speaker 1: No fan wants to hear this. The hard reality is
0:02
Speaker 1: market size is real. As we talked about earlier, the
0:05
Speaker 1: difference in revenues, meaning the difference in payroll.
0:07
Speaker 2: It's real.
0:15
Speaker 3: Hey, we're excited to have Neil Huntington on the show.
0:17
Speaker 3: Former general manager of the Pirates, current special assistant to
0:20
Speaker 3: the President of Baseball APPS in GM for the Cleveland Guardians.
0:22
Speaker 4: Neil, great to have you on. Thank you for the time.
0:25
Speaker 4: How you doing and I like the little logo there
0:27
Speaker 4: doing great?
0:28
Speaker 1: Thanks so much Scott, Todd and Eric for having me
0:30
Speaker 1: on the show. Eric has been a long time man.
0:33
Speaker 5: It has been a long time and for everybody who
0:35
Speaker 5: doesn't know, Neil fired me twice. So but but I
0:40
Speaker 5: have to bring a negative up. I have to bring
0:42
Speaker 5: a negative up.
0:43
Speaker 6: I sucked.
0:45
Speaker 5: And the positive part was he actually gave me my
0:48
Speaker 5: first chance in the big leagues. And without that, hey,
0:52
Speaker 5: never know if I would have ever made the big
0:53
Speaker 5: leagues and gotten to know Todd Frazier.
0:56
Speaker 6: Hey, now that's good.
1:00
Speaker 4: I like that all right, Neil.
1:02
Speaker 3: So I want to start first with you know, your
1:05
Speaker 3: current role with the Guardians, and if you can give
1:08
Speaker 3: us a little insight on what they've been up to lately.
1:10
Speaker 3: Of course, just signed Paul Sewald and they're coming off
1:14
Speaker 3: in ALCS where they were making a lot of Yankee
1:17
Speaker 3: fans pretty damn nervous.
1:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fascinating club in that our starting pitching
1:24
Speaker 1: was was probably the biggest challenge, and that's not typically
1:27
Speaker 1: something that gets you to the postseason. But our manager,
1:30
Speaker 1: our staff, our players played so hard every out of
1:33
Speaker 1: every game, and our bullpen gave us a chance to
1:36
Speaker 1: get back into games, and our starting pitching was just
1:38
Speaker 1: good enough. Our offense found a way to score runs.
1:42
Speaker 1: You know, this offseason has been about trying to move
1:46
Speaker 1: some things around to create some financial flexibility down the road,
1:52
Speaker 1: while also trying to add to the good core that's
1:55
Speaker 1: here with a young group that's coming behind it. And
1:59
Speaker 1: it's always is a challenge to add, move laterally and
2:03
Speaker 1: in some cases subtract while strying while still trying to
2:06
Speaker 1: move forward.
2:08
Speaker 7: I want to ask you a question right now, with
2:09
Speaker 7: all the signings going on on the East coast and
2:11
Speaker 7: West coast, the Midwest, and the you know, right in
2:15
Speaker 7: the center of America, here are you guys?
2:16
Speaker 6: Are you guys happy about that?
2:18
Speaker 7: You said, like, because all these big names are going
2:21
Speaker 7: right and left to you guys, and it doesn't seem
2:23
Speaker 7: like the you know, they're coming in the middle.
2:25
Speaker 6: I got to feel like you're some sort of happy
2:26
Speaker 6: I would assume.
2:28
Speaker 1: Well, the reality is that the big money is always
2:31
Speaker 1: going to be what plays in the big markets, and
2:34
Speaker 1: so that's where your primary free agents, your premium free agents,
2:37
Speaker 1: they tend to end up in the bigger markets. And
2:39
Speaker 1: that's where the smaller markets tend to play. In that
2:42
Speaker 1: middle tier and that next tier. And again walking that
2:45
Speaker 1: fine line between this year and next year and two years,
2:48
Speaker 1: three years from now. Adding Carlos Santana, adding Paul c.
2:52
Speaker 1: Walt or a couple of veterans with a ton of experience,
2:56
Speaker 1: you're going to help our young players continue to grow.
2:57
Speaker 1: And these are the challenges the small markets to face.
3:03
Speaker 5: Can you tell me a little bit about the hiring process,
3:06
Speaker 5: not only for coaches, but getting players in Because I've
3:09
Speaker 5: played for the Pirates where you were the GM. I've
3:12
Speaker 5: played for the Guardians, they were the Indians at the time. Incredible,
3:17
Speaker 5: incredible people. How much is that important in these small markets?
3:25
Speaker 2: Crucial? Eric, The.
3:28
Speaker 1: Most major league teams are playing from a similar playbook.
3:32
Speaker 1: Every major league team has the same resource foundation due
3:36
Speaker 1: to the national television contracts and the national revenue. Where
3:39
Speaker 1: it becomes very different is as you start to get
3:42
Speaker 1: into local revenues, and that's where one club may have four, five, six,
3:47
Speaker 1: eight times the local revenues that a small market does.
3:51
Speaker 1: So when you're playing from the same playbook, you have
3:53
Speaker 1: the same expense foundation in player development and scouting and
3:57
Speaker 1: analytics and just running a baseball organization. Everybody has that
4:01
Speaker 1: same but for the small markets, that percentage of total
4:05
Speaker 1: of money available is much larger than it is for
4:08
Speaker 1: the large markets. And that's essentially where your differences in
4:11
Speaker 1: payrolls come from is local revenues. So as you look
4:15
Speaker 1: at how do we find an advantage in these small markets,
4:18
Speaker 1: we believe it's our processes and our people, and the
4:22
Speaker 1: process has become exhaustive. The recruiting that goes on in
4:26
Speaker 1: free agency, the planning that goes through identifying how we
4:30
Speaker 1: think we can help a free agent is exhaustive. The
4:33
Speaker 1: recruiting of staff, the continual sourcing of potential staff members
4:39
Speaker 1: or somewhere down the road, it's never ending. And then
4:42
Speaker 1: once you get into that hiring process, it is absolutely
4:45
Speaker 1: crucial that we get it right. And Cleveland's more exhaustive
4:48
Speaker 1: in terms of the vetting process and the interview process
4:52
Speaker 1: of anybody I've ever seen. And I think the proof
4:55
Speaker 1: is in the putting with the quality that Chris Antonetti
4:58
Speaker 1: and Mike Tronoff bring to this sort ofization. Steve Vote
5:01
Speaker 1: hit the ground running despite being a rookie manager and
5:04
Speaker 1: following a Hall of famer, had a great staff around him,
5:08
Speaker 1: and they just I mean, man, they were unbelievable this
5:11
Speaker 1: year and it was so much fun to watch them
5:12
Speaker 1: work and look forward to this year in future years.
5:16
Speaker 5: How do you sit there and feel about your tenure
5:20
Speaker 5: as a Pirates GM because you took an organization that
5:24
Speaker 5: was at seventeen losing seasons and then rattled off what
5:29
Speaker 5: was built with a minor league, minor league organization that
5:33
Speaker 5: your crew built you, Kyle Stark, you know, I'm forgetting
5:39
Speaker 5: people now, Jim Bennedict that were in the minor leagues
5:43
Speaker 5: and you created that small dynasty for a city that
5:47
Speaker 5: is craving it. How do you feel about your tenure
5:50
Speaker 5: there and looking back on now what they've done since?
5:55
Speaker 1: So the challenge to that is obviously is not good
5:58
Speaker 1: enough because I'm now sitting here with Guardian's logo on
6:01
Speaker 1: my chest and the Zasta.
6:02
Speaker 2: Back to Pittsburgh.
6:04
Speaker 6: But that's it.
6:05
Speaker 2: I am proud of a lot of what we did.
6:07
Speaker 1: We took over a situation that a friend of mine
6:10
Speaker 1: after I took the job told me I would have
6:12
Speaker 1: been better taking an expansion club, and I asked him
6:15
Speaker 1: why he didn't tell me that before I took the job.
6:18
Speaker 1: But we brought in people that were committed to something
6:21
Speaker 1: bigger than themselves. We brought in people that wanted to
6:24
Speaker 1: do something the right way, and we had the three
6:26
Speaker 1: year rebuild, and people forget that. In year four we
6:29
Speaker 1: were competitive deep into August and then had an abysmal September.
6:33
Speaker 1: We did the same thing in year five and then
6:35
Speaker 1: year six is twenty thirteen, and one of the most
6:37
Speaker 1: special moments I think I'll ever experience professionally was the
6:41
Speaker 1: wild Card Game of Pittsburgh and had a three year
6:43
Speaker 1: run where I think we had the second or third
6:45
Speaker 1: best record in baseball. The problem is the Cardinals were
6:47
Speaker 1: one of the teams that were ahead of us, and
6:49
Speaker 1: we just couldn't find our way around them. Rolled things
6:52
Speaker 1: out there in sixteen seventeen, it didn't work, So we
6:55
Speaker 1: shifted gears, tried to shift things up and traded some
6:58
Speaker 1: players nearing the end of their time under contract in Pittsburgh,
7:01
Speaker 1: and it didn't work. And we tried to retool without rebuilding,
7:07
Speaker 1: and it didn't work. And that's why I'm sitting here today,
7:10
Speaker 1: but incredibly proud of the people.
7:12
Speaker 2: Kyle Stark was phenomenal.
7:13
Speaker 1: Kevin Graves as an assistant GM is tremendous, and I
7:15
Speaker 1: hope gets an opportunity as a GM someday. Greg Smith
7:19
Speaker 1: and Joe Delacari brought in a ton of good players
7:21
Speaker 1: in our scouting systems, and our player development staff are
7:25
Speaker 1: major league coaches. Clint Hurdle was so much, so great
7:29
Speaker 1: to work with and worked so hard to get the
7:32
Speaker 1: most out of the people that were around him. Again,
7:35
Speaker 1: I wish we had found a way to win more games,
7:38
Speaker 1: certainly in October, but over the course of the years, and.
7:42
Speaker 2: It didn't end well.
7:44
Speaker 1: But I am incredibly proud of a lot of the
7:45
Speaker 1: things that we did there.
7:48
Speaker 5: I mean, don't even you glossed over the fact that
7:50
Speaker 5: you guys build a brand new facility down in the
7:52
Speaker 5: Dominican for Dominican players to continue to grow that pipeline.
7:57
Speaker 5: But there was a story out there about how you
7:59
Speaker 5: had as for some money from Bob Nutting and you
8:02
Speaker 5: know he said no, and all this stuff during that
8:05
Speaker 5: time to make that jump you said about passing the Cardinals.
8:10
Speaker 5: Was there ever a dollar figure in your mind or
8:13
Speaker 5: a player that cost a certain dollar figure that would
8:17
Speaker 5: have been, like, man, you know what if we had
8:19
Speaker 5: had this person to pair with Garrett Cole, to pair
8:23
Speaker 5: with a young Jamison tye On, and we could have
8:26
Speaker 5: gone and gotten him, probably would have costed more than
8:30
Speaker 5: the largest free agent contract at nineteen million dollars that
8:34
Speaker 5: any pirate has ever gotten. Do you know what that
8:37
Speaker 5: dollar amount would be? Because I know pirate fans would
8:40
Speaker 5: love to know how close they are or were or
8:44
Speaker 5: could be to winning a championship in that city.
8:49
Speaker 1: So the reality, it's a great question. The reality is
8:52
Speaker 1: we never allowed or so of those those thoughts.
8:56
Speaker 2: Those conversations at the time.
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Speaker 1: We worked within the parameters that that our market allowed,
9:02
Speaker 1: that our ownership allowed, and we worked to do the
9:05
Speaker 1: absolute best that we could. We tied to take some chances.
9:09
Speaker 1: It didn't always work, sometimes it worked out great. We
9:12
Speaker 1: tried to maximize the dollars that we were applying through
9:16
Speaker 1: good scout and good coaching, good developments, and again in
9:20
Speaker 1: a lot of cases it worked. In some cases it didn't.
9:23
Speaker 1: Yeah to sit in that bottom ten and payroll every
9:26
Speaker 1: single years I look back on it is tough bottom
9:29
Speaker 1: five for the majority of our time there. At the
9:31
Speaker 1: same time, I look at what Chris and Mike are
9:34
Speaker 1: accomplishing here in Cleveland, and they've accomplished in Eric and
9:38
Speaker 1: before him, Andrew down at Tampa, and it is possible.
9:41
Speaker 1: It's just a margin for error is so much smaller.
9:45
Speaker 1: The hard reality, and no fan wants to hear this,
9:47
Speaker 1: the hard reality is market size is real. As we
9:50
Speaker 1: talked about earlier, the difference in revenues, meaning the difference
9:53
Speaker 1: in payroll is it's real. It's not a facade. There
9:58
Speaker 1: are some organizations that given year or a given sequence
10:01
Speaker 1: of years, when they think they have a window, they'll
10:03
Speaker 1: deficit spend.
10:04
Speaker 2: But most of these.
10:05
Speaker 1: Owners, our owners, because they were good business people, and
10:09
Speaker 1: good business people tend not to like to lose money
10:12
Speaker 1: on a consistent basis, and so the owners spend what
10:16
Speaker 1: the market allows, what the revenues allow. Ideally, a front
10:20
Speaker 1: office has the freedom to move some money around as
10:23
Speaker 1: they see fit. And that's we were able to do
10:25
Speaker 1: that in Pittsburgh, Chris and Mike and and is that
10:28
Speaker 1: all able to do that here? And it looks like
10:30
Speaker 1: Eric is able to do that down at Tampa Bay.
10:32
Speaker 1: And that's that's crucial to be able to push some
10:35
Speaker 1: more in in some years and maybe reallocate it in others.
10:39
Speaker 1: But everybody wants spending to be the answer. But this
10:44
Speaker 1: is a business. No one likes to hear that, No
10:47
Speaker 1: fans want to hear that. But it is a business.
10:49
Speaker 1: And typically twenty eight owners twenty seven owners operate as
10:52
Speaker 1: operate as if it's a business. Sometimes you have one
10:55
Speaker 1: or two or three that'll go out and deficit spend
10:58
Speaker 1: in a certain period of time. And that is the
11:00
Speaker 1: harsh reality.
11:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can depthsit spend because the franchise value skyrockets.
11:06
Speaker 3: We also don't have access to books. So especially the
11:09
Speaker 3: case in Pittsburgh gets really tough, Neil, because most people
11:12
Speaker 3: look at it and say, how am I supposed to
11:14
Speaker 3: feel bad for the ownership group that can't spend twenty
11:17
Speaker 3: million dollars in free agency? I don't believe that. I
11:21
Speaker 3: know fans don't believe that. And If that's truly the case,
11:24
Speaker 3: most people say, then someone else should be owning the team,
11:26
Speaker 3: because there definitely are people that would take over a
11:29
Speaker 3: team like that. Do you commiserate with fans in a
11:32
Speaker 3: case like that? Do you feel like Pittsburgh can't even
11:35
Speaker 3: spend twenty million dollars on a long term contract on
11:37
Speaker 3: a player in free agency at this point in the game,
11:40
Speaker 3: with the revenues that even the Pirates have, So, of.
11:44
Speaker 1: Course, Scott, I understand the frustration where teams are choosing
11:49
Speaker 1: not to spend. The equity in the club is a
11:55
Speaker 1: bit of a false argument. It's the same as home equity.
11:59
Speaker 1: You only get it if you loan, if you take
12:02
Speaker 1: out a loan, or if you sell the club. So
12:05
Speaker 1: most owners don't intend to sell. Some that do are
12:08
Speaker 1: the ones that tend to deficit spend because they want
12:11
Speaker 1: to take a run at it before they before they
12:13
Speaker 1: sell the club. And you're right, it's tough to feel
12:17
Speaker 1: sorry for billionaires that are saying they can't spend. I
12:20
Speaker 1: definitely understand that, and again, ideally there would be every
12:27
Speaker 1: owner that would be willing to deficit spend for a
12:29
Speaker 1: sequence of years when they feel like their window is open.
12:32
Speaker 1: Unfortunately that that isn't the case in the industry. The
12:35
Speaker 1: other sports don't typically don't deficit spend because they don't
12:38
Speaker 1: need to because player X costs a percentage of their payroll.
12:44
Speaker 1: And that's the difference between a player choosing to play
12:47
Speaker 1: in Boston, Chicago, or Pittsburgh or Cleveland. But in Major
12:51
Speaker 1: League Baseball, when a player costs ten percent of Cleveland's payroll,
12:56
Speaker 1: that that's a ten million dollar player. When he costs
12:58
Speaker 1: ten percent of a large market teams payroll, that's twenty
13:02
Speaker 1: five to thirty to thirty five million dollar player.
13:04
Speaker 2: And that does make it very, very different.
13:07
Speaker 1: I definitely understand why fans get frustrated because they see
13:11
Speaker 1: billionaires that don't spend their business people, and business people
13:16
Speaker 1: run businesses, and they don't run businesses to lose money
13:19
Speaker 1: on a consistent basis. Ideally, some are willing to do
13:23
Speaker 1: it on on a short term basis. My expectation and
13:28
Speaker 1: my assumption watching from a distance here years ago, is
13:31
Speaker 1: that the Dolans here in Cleveland have been willing to
13:33
Speaker 1: do that as I've looked at their payroll numbers compared
13:36
Speaker 1: to other small markets, and the first my first go
13:39
Speaker 1: around with Cleveland. I know they definitely spent at times,
13:42
Speaker 1: but that's not a way to run a business on
13:44
Speaker 1: a consistent basis.
13:46
Speaker 6: That's all.
13:47
Speaker 5: That's that's awesome to hear about Cleveland, and your insight
13:50
Speaker 5: is awesome because you were in those meetings. There is
13:56
Speaker 5: there a situation where if the were you know, we
14:00
Speaker 5: hear salary cap, salary cap, we have a soft salary
14:03
Speaker 5: cap with the threshold, the luxury tax threshold. If the
14:09
Speaker 5: because you've seen these numbers, if there is a floor
14:13
Speaker 5: put in, do you feel like some of these teams
14:15
Speaker 5: will have to sell their team because of the fact
14:18
Speaker 5: that now they're having needing to spend an extra seventy
14:22
Speaker 5: million dollars because of where the floor is put because
14:26
Speaker 5: of where the ceiling is. Just like other other other leagues.
14:31
Speaker 1: So the way the other leagues make it work eric
14:34
Speaker 1: is is just a lot more revenue sharing. The reason
14:37
Speaker 1: Green Bank can compete with New England and the Los
14:39
Speaker 1: Angeles teams is there's a lot more revenue sharing. So
14:43
Speaker 1: that that is a big obstacle I think from from
14:47
Speaker 1: the ownership side, is more revenue sharing, but without without
14:53
Speaker 1: without revenue sharing, I think it would be extremely difficult
14:56
Speaker 1: to to find to make it work on on on
15:02
Speaker 1: a team side without significant revenue sharing. If there is
15:04
Speaker 1: a salary floor, which if there's going to be a
15:06
Speaker 1: salary cap, I certainly understand why they would be the
15:08
Speaker 1: expectation of a salary floor, but there would need to
15:11
Speaker 1: be significant shift in revenue sharing, as is done in
15:15
Speaker 1: the other sports.
15:17
Speaker 5: We've heard your name mentioned in so many jobs. Good
15:21
Speaker 5: thing you didn't take the Giant's job because Buster just
15:24
Speaker 5: came in and just was like, well, I'm done playing,
15:26
Speaker 5: so I'll go and do that now. So that's unfair.
15:28
Speaker 5: That's like, that's like me coming in and being like Buster,
15:31
Speaker 5: I'm going to catch now, and Buster's like, oh, actually,
15:34
Speaker 5: I'm just gonna keep catching. So he would have taken
15:37
Speaker 5: your job. Your name, your name's been bantered around with
15:41
Speaker 5: other teams. What's next for you? What are what is
15:43
Speaker 5: your I don't want to say goal because I know
15:46
Speaker 5: your mindset is not necessarily oh I need this job
15:50
Speaker 5: because you see the fact that somebody has that job
15:53
Speaker 5: already and you're not looking to poach somebody's job. But
15:56
Speaker 5: what do you what is your goal in the game
15:59
Speaker 5: as you currently sit here in twenty twenty five, so.
16:04
Speaker 1: I took the Pirates job not to become a GM.
16:07
Speaker 1: I took the Pirates job to help people achieve their
16:10
Speaker 1: personal and professional goals and to create lifelong positive memories
16:14
Speaker 1: for our fans. I'm not quite in that same realm now,
16:19
Speaker 1: but I can give back to young staff and young
16:22
Speaker 1: executives and mentor. I'm out and about evaluating. I saw
16:26
Speaker 1: a ton of players for the draft. I see our
16:28
Speaker 1: minor league system. I share my thoughts with Chris and
16:31
Speaker 1: Mike and Matt Foreman, the tremendous assistant GM. If the
16:36
Speaker 1: right opportunity were to present itself to lead a baseball
16:39
Speaker 1: operations department again with the right group and charge and
16:43
Speaker 1: the right ownership group, I would love to take another
16:46
Speaker 1: run and learn from the lessons. If it doesn't, I'm
16:49
Speaker 1: in a really good spot with the Cleveland Guardians and
16:52
Speaker 1: I love this group. And if something else pops up
16:55
Speaker 1: in between, you know, I'm absolutely open to it. I
16:58
Speaker 1: just want to continue to try to help people.
17:01
Speaker 7: What the Dodgers are doing right now is incredible, signing
17:06
Speaker 7: all these guys not worried about money, getting after doing what.
17:09
Speaker 6: They have to do. What do you think about this?
17:10
Speaker 7: And have you ever seen anything like this in your
17:13
Speaker 7: career with all the big time guys that they're signing
17:16
Speaker 7: and the money that there are just are given out.
17:20
Speaker 1: No, you know, you go back to the criticism that
17:22
Speaker 1: people used to levy on the Yankees and the Dodgers
17:25
Speaker 1: are dwarfing that. You know, they're they're they're running circles
17:29
Speaker 1: around what was done back in the day. It feels
17:32
Speaker 1: like anyway, and again, a credit to them, they figured
17:35
Speaker 1: out a way to make.
17:36
Speaker 2: The finances work.
17:38
Speaker 1: I have no idea if their deficit spending or if
17:40
Speaker 1: their revenues are just this strong that they're able to
17:44
Speaker 1: do this. And you know, you look at the other
17:47
Speaker 1: leagues and and and there are teams in huge markets
17:50
Speaker 1: that make huge profits. There are teams in smaller markets
17:53
Speaker 1: that that you know, some years make profits, some years don't.
17:56
Speaker 1: And I'm never going to criticize an owner or a
18:00
Speaker 1: front office for doing.
18:01
Speaker 2: What they are able to and allowed to do.
18:03
Speaker 1: And it seems tough for the game when when teams
18:07
Speaker 1: are talking about signing a player to play a marquee
18:11
Speaker 1: role for them, and he goes to Los Angeles and
18:14
Speaker 1: he's going to be the fourth or fifth best at
18:16
Speaker 1: his role. But We're here to win championships. It's what
18:21
Speaker 1: we sign up for. We recognize it doesn't change our
18:24
Speaker 1: motivation at the end of the day, are on field
18:26
Speaker 1: goals to win championships, And if it gets a little tougher,
18:30
Speaker 1: it gets a little tougher, and we're going to show
18:31
Speaker 1: up and compete every day.
18:34
Speaker 4: Neil, I just want to do a side by side.
18:36
Speaker 3: Since you spent a lot of time in Pittsburgh and
18:38
Speaker 3: now you've been gone for a while and now you've
18:39
Speaker 3: spent a good chunk of time with Cleveland, why do
18:43
Speaker 3: you think Cleveland has more success recently as an organization
18:47
Speaker 3: versus Pittsburgh? You know, even since you left. I know
18:50
Speaker 3: you're not there. But they both live in central divisions
18:54
Speaker 3: where it's sure these teams have to kind of scrap
18:57
Speaker 3: and cloud with payroll, but they're in a similar enough
18:59
Speaker 3: range to their teams. So this is partially for Pittsburgh
19:03
Speaker 3: fans like, why can't we be good after going through
19:05
Speaker 3: a whole teardown and starting back up and Cleveland fans saying,
19:09
Speaker 3: what are we doing so well that we're able to
19:11
Speaker 3: put together a team like this?
19:13
Speaker 1: So what makes Cleveland so special and Tampa so special
19:18
Speaker 1: is that they didn't. They haven't had to go through
19:20
Speaker 1: a teardown and rebuild. If you look at Cleveland's records
19:24
Speaker 1: over the past ten fifteen years, the one loss record
19:29
Speaker 1: is just incredible for the resources and Tampa. Similarly, in Pittsburgh,
19:34
Speaker 1: we tore it down when we got there. We worked
19:36
Speaker 1: really hard not to have to tear it down. You know,
19:39
Speaker 1: the biggest difference between between Pittsburgh and Cleveland goes back
19:44
Speaker 1: to like twenty and thirteen to twenty nineteen, and Cleveland
19:47
Speaker 1: had Chris Antonetti and Pittsburgh and me and I say
19:51
Speaker 1: that in all seriousness that that's how good this front
19:53
Speaker 1: office is is they are a difference maker front office
19:56
Speaker 1: in their people and their processes and how they apply
19:59
Speaker 1: those things. The hard part is if you would ask
20:03
Speaker 1: people if if after year three in Pittsburgh, if I
20:06
Speaker 1: was gonna last year six, ninety percent of the fans
20:10
Speaker 1: would have said, god, I hope not. But but four year, four,
20:14
Speaker 1: year five, we started the show, signs, year six we
20:16
Speaker 1: made the postseason. This has been and and his front
20:19
Speaker 1: office is sixth year. They've got great young pitching over there.
20:22
Speaker 1: How they they find enough offense is going to be
20:25
Speaker 1: something that they need to do. I respect Derek Shelton
20:28
Speaker 1: a lot. I'm rooting for them. The fans of Pittsburgh
20:32
Speaker 1: are passionate. That passion turns the venom when when they
20:35
Speaker 1: lose too much, whether it's the Pirates, the Penguins, or
20:37
Speaker 1: the Steelers, we all feel it. We all felt it
20:41
Speaker 1: back in the day. And and then again that's the reality.
20:44
Speaker 1: So that margin Ferrera we talked about earlier is really small.
20:48
Speaker 1: And if you you swing and miss, sometimes you don't
20:51
Speaker 1: get that second swing or sometimes that that that it
20:55
Speaker 1: just causes too much damage. And that's that's the hard
20:58
Speaker 1: part of these small markets. And and that were Chris
21:00
Speaker 1: and Mike here in Cleveland, with Terry and now Voter,
21:04
Speaker 1: they've just found a way to maintain that competitive edge,
21:07
Speaker 1: to maintain the ability to retain really good players, but
21:11
Speaker 1: have enough depth that when they get injured, they're able
21:14
Speaker 1: to somehow survive, and when they have an off year,
21:17
Speaker 1: it's not five off years. And it just it's remarkable
21:20
Speaker 1: what they do here. The partnerships, the emphasis on growth
21:24
Speaker 1: and development, both in the front office with our coaches,
21:27
Speaker 1: excuse me, and with our players is special. And it's
21:31
Speaker 1: like no place I've ever seen before.
21:34
Speaker 5: I had a story it would take too long about
21:36
Speaker 5: getting my first minor league contract with the Pirates. I
21:40
Speaker 5: don't think you were a part of it was more
21:41
Speaker 5: Kyle Stark. So I'll tell that story on the show
21:43
Speaker 5: another time. But I want you to go to twenty ten,
21:46
Speaker 5: and I know you made a ton of player moves.
21:50
Speaker 5: I was told in two thousand and eighteen or nineteen
21:53
Speaker 5: by one of the coaches that you had in your
21:56
Speaker 5: in your room. Theres a lot of coaches. At the
21:58
Speaker 5: end of spring training. I was told that I was
22:01
Speaker 5: voted of the six or eight people. Majority vote had
22:06
Speaker 5: me making the team out of spring training, but I
22:08
Speaker 5: was not on the forty man roster. Can you confirm
22:12
Speaker 5: or deny that you were one of the people with
22:16
Speaker 5: John Russell that said I should not make the team
22:20
Speaker 5: out of spring training.
22:23
Speaker 1: Well, since you didn't make the team, obviously, I was
22:25
Speaker 1: a part of that, Eric, so you can hate me
22:27
Speaker 1: for that. I remember bringing you into camp, and I
22:31
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember this, and I'm sorry to
22:33
Speaker 1: take time that we don't have, but when we sat
22:35
Speaker 1: down for our entrance meeting at the beginning of spring training,
22:38
Speaker 1: we had signed you. I think it was January late January.
22:41
Speaker 1: You were coming out of Toronto. You'd had a good
22:42
Speaker 1: year in Double A, you were older, and we had
22:45
Speaker 1: signed you in all candor to be an organizational catcher,
22:48
Speaker 1: to go to Triple A, to lead a staff, to
22:51
Speaker 1: catch throw to game call and help our young players mature.
22:55
Speaker 1: And when we talked about that in spring training, I
22:59
Speaker 1: remember you at the end of the meeting, looking me
23:01
Speaker 1: dead in the eye and saying, I'm just not sure
23:04
Speaker 1: why you wouldn't want a guy who can do all
23:06
Speaker 1: those things and hit twenty bombs, so keep me in mind.
23:10
Speaker 1: And that's how you ended our meeting at the end
23:11
Speaker 1: of the spring training when you joined us, Love.
23:14
Speaker 5: That is all true story, except for the fact you
23:18
Speaker 5: actually Kyle Stark had actually said in the meeting you
23:22
Speaker 5: were going to go to Double A, but Joe Kerrigan,
23:26
Speaker 5: Joe Kerrigan spoke up for me, and I ended up
23:30
Speaker 5: being the Triple A backup behind Robinson Diz because you
23:34
Speaker 5: had Miguel Perez, who now Miggy's the Triple A manager
23:38
Speaker 5: of the Indianapolis Indians. But at the end, at part
23:41
Speaker 5: of that meeting, Kyle Stark said, if before we release
23:45
Speaker 5: you halfway through the year, we would love to see
23:48
Speaker 5: if you could pitch. So I was get I got hired,
23:52
Speaker 5: and you were already thinking about how to fire me
23:54
Speaker 5: or hire me on as a coach. So it was
23:57
Speaker 5: one of.
23:57
Speaker 2: Those two editions. Two additions to that, Eric.
24:01
Speaker 1: One, we actually talked about and called you coach Kratz
24:06
Speaker 1: as we signed you, because we thought you were going
24:09
Speaker 1: to be an outstanding manager someday. So we were signing
24:12
Speaker 1: you in part to come learn our culture, come add
24:15
Speaker 1: to our culture, but then hopefully be a part of
24:17
Speaker 1: leading our culture. When your time was done, you went
24:21
Speaker 1: to Triple A and we're too good. You played your
24:23
Speaker 1: way to the major leagues. Unfortunately, we didn't see that
24:26
Speaker 1: same result in the major leagues, and we moved on
24:28
Speaker 1: from you mistakenly because you went out and had a
24:32
Speaker 1: heck of a major league career, Eric, and my hat's.
24:34
Speaker 2: Off to you.
24:34
Speaker 1: But so not only did we did we think we
24:36
Speaker 1: might ask you to pitch, We called you coach Kratz
24:40
Speaker 1: because we hoped you were going to lead our system
24:42
Speaker 1: and be a really good manager maybe at the major
24:45
Speaker 1: league level, but certainly in the minor leagues for us.
24:48
Speaker 1: If you hadn't gone out and played so well.
24:51
Speaker 5: It's all part of the journey. It's all part of
24:53
Speaker 5: the journey, getting fired, getting hired, and pushing your way through.
24:56
Speaker 4: And you still coach Kratz now with and.
24:59
Speaker 7: You're right, he is a good manager for his son's
25:01
Speaker 7: high school team too.
25:02
Speaker 4: That's right.
25:03
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much for joining us and providing
25:06
Speaker 3: all the insight. Really helpful for us. We love talking
25:08
Speaker 3: to front office people, so appreciate the time. And we'll
25:12
Speaker 3: see in spring training out in Arizona.
25:15
Speaker 2: Sounds good, Thanks so much, guys.
25:16
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it all right, good insight there. Tried to
25:19
Speaker 3: bring it to on questioning because the part that is
25:23
Speaker 3: fascinating to me is why can Cleveland thrive but Pittsburgh can't.
25:28
Speaker 3: You know, if Pittsburgh doesn't land their number one pick
25:32
Speaker 3: in a Paul Skeen's year, where would they be?
25:34
Speaker 4: Right now?
25:35
Speaker 5: I'll go because so I'm in nine and ten, I
25:39
Speaker 5: was in the organization sixteen, I went for a little
25:42
Speaker 5: bit yep with just you know, just the big leagues.
25:44
Speaker 5: But I saw everybody in the minor leagues. I saw
25:47
Speaker 5: everybody in the minor leagues. With Cleveland, they hit it.
25:52
Speaker 5: I mean ninety nine percent of the time. With their staff,
25:55
Speaker 5: their coaches, their other little things. They hit that perfectly
26:00
Speaker 5: at ninety nine percent. Is not perfect, but it's as
26:02
Speaker 5: perfect as you can get when you're hiring people. If
26:04
Speaker 5: anybody's ever hired anybody, it's tough to do. You sit
26:08
Speaker 5: there and you go. They have the unbelievable group of
26:12
Speaker 5: people put together pushing in the right direction. Unselfish. Pittsburgh
26:18
Speaker 5: wasn't one hundred percent on that, and I think if
26:19
Speaker 5: we had ask, if Neil was still on, I think
26:21
Speaker 5: he would agree with me. They didn't hit it one
26:24
Speaker 5: hundred percent of the time. And I think some of
26:26
Speaker 5: those people that were in the minor league system were
26:29
Speaker 5: there for themselves. They were using as a stepping stone.
26:33
Speaker 5: And the Guardians now do it incredible. It's a really selfish,
26:40
Speaker 5: unselfish group of people that selfishly wants something for other
26:44
Speaker 5: people like it's it's really amazing, and the Guardians do
26:48
Speaker 5: an awesome job of it. Yeah, they create good players
26:51
Speaker 5: and good people.
26:54
Speaker 7: You played a little Pittsburgh time at the finish line
26:57
Speaker 7: nineteen nineteen.
26:59
Speaker 6: Yeah, an experience.
27:00
Speaker 5: Not a happy not a not a happy experience.
27:02
Speaker 3: You were spoiled, you pay on some teams and really
27:05
Speaker 3: took care of the boys.
27:07
Speaker 7: Listen, I wasn't I wasn't hitting well, don't get me wrong.
27:10
Speaker 7: I was batting I think under one hundred if you
27:13
Speaker 7: want the truth, and thirty at bats right, and then
27:16
Speaker 7: I went two for four. We had an off day
27:19
Speaker 7: and then they released me and the guy they brought
27:21
Speaker 7: in was batting under me.
27:24
Speaker 6: It was batt and lower than what I was. Bad.
27:26
Speaker 5: I've done it.
27:27
Speaker 6: I was like, what is going on there? I mean,
27:30
Speaker 6: at least give me somebody bat in one thirty or
27:32
Speaker 6: so if you had performance bonuses. I had that contract that.
27:37
Speaker 5: Said it was like sixty.
27:40
Speaker 6: I think it was like sixty or whatever it is.
27:42
Speaker 6: I forget what it's called.
27:43
Speaker 7: They gave me a contract where they said it was
27:46
Speaker 7: only for you know, a certain amount of days, and
27:48
Speaker 7: then we can decide what we want to do with you.
27:51
Speaker 7: And nine point nine out of ten times when those
27:54
Speaker 7: days come up, see you later. They get ready.