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Ashy Bines Reignites Feud · Outspoken the Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the
0:04
Speaker 1: hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm
0:07
Speaker 1: Sophie Torber and coming up on today's show, Tammy Hembrough
0:11
Speaker 1: is labelled disrespectful after hanging out with an ex. Fans
0:15
Speaker 1: turn on Taylor Swift after her album release and our
0:18
Speaker 1: Friday debrief. But first, Ashley Bynes has reignited her feud
0:23
Speaker 1: with Gretty Rose and Sammy Leo. Kate, can you tell
0:25
Speaker 1: us more? Well, it all started when Ashley shared a
0:28
Speaker 1: clip to TikTok from a podcast episode she did where
0:31
Speaker 1: she answered listener dilemmas. And she was asked her thoughts
0:34
Speaker 1: on a friendship breakdown. And during her answer, she revealed
0:38
Speaker 1: that she's been in the exact same situation. She conceded
0:41
Speaker 1: when it comes to friendship, she has an anxious attachment style.
0:45
Speaker 1: Here's more of what she said.
0:46
Speaker 2: Whoever this is, I've been in this exact situation. And
0:50
Speaker 2: I've I am quite an anxious attachment when it comes
0:53
Speaker 2: to friendships. And I have a wound of being abandoned
0:56
Speaker 2: and rejected. And I like to have closure over things.
0:59
Speaker 2: But I've had a friend that hasn't given me any closure,
1:02
Speaker 2: that won't pick up the phone, that won't FaceTime, that
1:05
Speaker 2: won't reply, and I've just been left. So I totally
1:07
Speaker 2: hear where she's at because it's like, I want to
1:10
Speaker 2: keep this friendship. I don't know what's happened. I'm left
1:12
Speaker 2: over here being like, what the hell? But I got
1:15
Speaker 2: to a point where I was like, I actually have
1:17
Speaker 2: to unplug because there is nothing else I can do.
1:20
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:20
Speaker 2: You keep just breaking your own heart.
1:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
1:23
Speaker 2: And also, I got to a point too, I think,
1:25
Speaker 2: within Tiana and my friendship, the way Tiana communicates with
1:29
Speaker 2: me and creates a safe place that we can bring
1:32
Speaker 2: anything in, it raised my standard of what I wanted
1:35
Speaker 2: in a friendship. So it made it easier for me
1:37
Speaker 2: to unplug from this other friendship.
1:40
Speaker 1: We have spoken on this podcast before, Kate, about how
1:43
Speaker 1: many resources you that Ashley Bynes is throwing into this podcast. Yeah,
1:47
Speaker 1: it's clear she wants to make it very popular. And unfortunately,
1:50
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to be having the success yet that
1:53
Speaker 1: she is wanting because she had to cancel a live
1:56
Speaker 1: podcast show. we saw on the charts that it's not
1:59
Speaker 1: doing that well. They don't have a huge fan base
2:02
Speaker 1: listening to this show. In comparison to the amount of
2:04
Speaker 1: people that follow her, which is over a million followers,
2:06
Speaker 1: you would expect a big influencer would be getting a
2:08
Speaker 1: lot of downloads on their podcast. So she has thought
2:10
Speaker 1: to herself, I'm going to get interest by trying to
2:13
Speaker 1: reignite a feud or revisit this feud. Between her former friends,
2:16
Speaker 1: Gretty and Sammy, we often get DMs on the regular saying, please,
2:21
Speaker 1: can you talk about this feud? I'm so invested. Tell
2:23
Speaker 1: me what happened. Yeah. And it seems like Gretty and
2:26
Speaker 1: Sammy have taken the bait because off the back of
2:29
Speaker 1: this video, they shared their own TikTok where they appeared
2:32
Speaker 1: together on screen with texts that said, when your bestie
2:35
Speaker 1: just clocked the same shit as I did. And in
2:37
Speaker 1: the video, they look at each other and laugh. The
2:39
Speaker 1: video was captioned debrief pending and the comments were an
2:43
Speaker 1: interesting read. One person wrote NDA over yet or what?
2:46
Speaker 1: And another said, tell us when the NDA is over.
2:49
Speaker 1: Don't tease us. Now, this is a rumor that has
2:51
Speaker 1: followed Ashley Bynes for quite a long time. She's had
2:53
Speaker 1: a lot of high profile friendship bust ups and people
2:56
Speaker 1: have said none of the friends talk out because they're
2:58
Speaker 1: forced to sign NDAs. She has come out on her
3:01
Speaker 1: podcast and said this is completely untrue. How do you
3:03
Speaker 1: feel about them piggybacking off this though and obviously creating
3:06
Speaker 1: their own content? I mean, it's just the nature of
3:08
Speaker 1: social media. We spoke a couple of weeks ago about
3:10
Speaker 1: how friendship bust ups are the way to stay relevant online.
3:14
Speaker 1: Everyone cares about you when you're feuding with another influencer.
3:17
Speaker 1: So I think it's a smart content strategy, but it
3:20
Speaker 1: is a little bit hypocritical because you're saying, oh, how
3:22
Speaker 1: dare this person call us out, but you're doing the
3:25
Speaker 1: same thing. I think people are growing tired of it
3:28
Speaker 1: because they see a group of women in their 30s
3:31
Speaker 1: who were mothers fighting over something really petty that happened
3:34
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. It's sort of something that
3:36
Speaker 1: you would expect people in their early 20s to fight about.
3:40
Speaker 1: I don't know how I feel about you age shaming
3:42
Speaker 1: them for fighting in their 30s. I'm definitely not age shaming.
3:45
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that I think people expect more of
3:48
Speaker 1: them more of a maturity level than to get caught
3:50
Speaker 1: up on some crap that happened 10 years ago. It's
3:52
Speaker 1: funny you say that though, because when Indy Clinton got
3:54
Speaker 1: that PI and found out who all her trolls were,
3:57
Speaker 1: they happened to be mums, probably in their thirties. I
4:00
Speaker 1: think it's a time in life where you may be
4:03
Speaker 1: looking after children. So you aren't pouring heaps into yourself
4:08
Speaker 1: and you need strong friendships and you might not get
4:10
Speaker 1: back from those friends what you need and that would
4:13
Speaker 1: cause a fight. And it is a time in your
4:14
Speaker 1: life when some of your friendships do fall apart because
4:17
Speaker 1: you're in different stages and you can't relate to one another.
4:19
Speaker 1: All I'm saying though is that I think the response
4:22
Speaker 1: has been one of people saying this is a bit immature.
4:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
4:25
Speaker 1: And also a sense of just tell us what happened.
4:27
Speaker 1: Like if you're not going to open up about it,
4:28
Speaker 1: then we don't want to hear you referencing it anymore.
4:31
Speaker 1: Get ready with me.
4:32
Speaker 2: I already put on my foundation, but I thought I'll
4:36
Speaker 2: do like a little chit chat catch up.
4:39
Speaker 1: Tammy Hembrough has been labelled disrespectful after teasing a reunion
4:43
Speaker 1: with her ex-fiancé, Rhys Hawkins. It's not the first time
4:46
Speaker 1: the OG influencer has made it public that she's hanging
4:50
Speaker 1: out with her ex. Kate, can you tell us more?
4:52
Speaker 1: So on Saturday night, Tammy posted an Insta story of
4:56
Speaker 1: her two young daughters hugging at a bowling centre. So
4:59
Speaker 1: at first glance, it looked like just a regular wholesome
5:01
Speaker 1: family night out. That was until Super Sluice spotted the
5:05
Speaker 1: bowling scoreboard that featured at the top of the frame
5:08
Speaker 1: of the Instagram story. It was literally there for a
5:11
Speaker 1: couple of seconds max. It turns out that Tammy was
5:15
Speaker 1: bowling with her three children and her ex-fiancé, Rhys Hawkins.
5:19
Speaker 1: So Rhys is the father of Tammy's two eldest children,
5:22
Speaker 1: Wolf and Saskia. The following night, Tammy then backed the
5:26
Speaker 1: video up by sharing a TikTok of her and Reese
5:29
Speaker 1: at the bowling center. So for those who haven't seen it,
5:32
Speaker 1: Tammy set up her camera and then she moved back
5:35
Speaker 1: into the frame to stand next to Reese. And at
5:37
Speaker 1: that point, she hoisted her jeans up with her tongue
5:40
Speaker 1: poking out and tried to pull Reese into the shot
5:42
Speaker 1: next to her as she pouted and kicked her back
5:45
Speaker 1: leg up. Rhys kind of looked awkward. He looked at
5:49
Speaker 1: her like, what the fuck? And then he kind of
5:51
Speaker 1: playfully pushed the bowling ball towards her. I don't think
5:54
Speaker 1: he's totally innocent. He is clearly in on the videos.
5:58
Speaker 1: He's appearing in it for God's sake. Well, to be fair,
6:00
Speaker 1: she kind of set up the camera as he was
6:02
Speaker 1: picking up his bowling ball. And I think it's kind
6:06
Speaker 1: of that thing where he doesn't know how to react
6:08
Speaker 1: to it. So you don't think he was in on
6:10
Speaker 1: the video? No, I think this was all set up
6:12
Speaker 1: by Tammy and he was kind of an innocent bystander
6:15
Speaker 1: in a sense because You've got to remember the three
6:17
Speaker 1: kids are there. So if he makes a scene, it
6:19
Speaker 1: actually detracts from their whole family night. So I think
6:22
Speaker 1: he just played along in the moment. But then again,
6:24
Speaker 1: he could say, hey, sorry, do you mind not posting that?
6:26
Speaker 1: Because it might be a bit disrespectful to my girlfriend.
6:28
Speaker 1: I'm sure she probably would have respected that. Well, we
6:30
Speaker 1: don't know the conversation that happened. I think that he
6:33
Speaker 1: plays on it as well because they both know that
6:35
Speaker 1: together they're incredibly popular. People are very nostalgic about this relationship.
6:39
Speaker 1: We saw that when we did our Tammy deep dives.
6:42
Speaker 1: There were so many people who were shipping the relationship
6:44
Speaker 1: and they saw the two of them as ultimate couple goals. Well,
6:47
Speaker 1: Tammy certainly got the reaction she was after because the
6:50
Speaker 1: clip went viral on social media. At the time of recording,
6:53
Speaker 1: it's had 3.6 million views. And Tammy stirred the pot
6:56
Speaker 1: further on Tuesday night, sharing an Instagram story of her
6:59
Speaker 1: miming to Taylor Swift's song, The Life of a Showgirl.
7:02
Speaker 1: She then panned across to Reese driving the car with
7:04
Speaker 1: their two kids in the back and he was shaking
7:06
Speaker 1: his head and she captioned the video, not a Swifty.
7:09
Speaker 1: His reaction is the same reaction that most boyfriends have
7:12
Speaker 1: when their girlfriends try to film an Instagram story, just
7:15
Speaker 1: being like, not again. I don't want to be in this,
7:18
Speaker 1: but this is a different one because they're not together.
7:20
Speaker 1: It really seems like Tammy has made a conscious effort
7:23
Speaker 1: since announcing the divorce to include Reese in her content
7:26
Speaker 1: because three weeks after the divorce announcement, she shared a
7:29
Speaker 1: video of her prank calling Reese. Now that TikTok got
7:32
Speaker 1: 1.4 million views. Then a month later, she posted a
7:36
Speaker 1: video of her, Reese and their two kids posing with
7:39
Speaker 1: the caption whole gangs here. That video went absolutely nuts.
7:43
Speaker 1: It had 16.7 million views and it sparked rumours that
7:46
Speaker 1: they were getting back together. The captions have sparked a
7:49
Speaker 1: lot of conversations around where Posey fits into this family
7:51
Speaker 1: because she is Tammy's third daughter. Her father is Matt Paul,
7:55
Speaker 1: which is Tammy's second fiancé. And by saying the whole
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Speaker 1: gang's here and not including her in the video... A
8:01
Speaker 1: lot of people were like, well, how is the whole
8:03
Speaker 1: gang here? Your third daughter is missing. And then in
8:05
Speaker 1: the other video, she said, mom and dad. And Posey
8:08
Speaker 1: was in that video. Yeah. Rhys Hawkins isn't her dad.
8:10
Speaker 2: Yeah.
8:11
Speaker 1: A lot of people thought it was in bad taste.
8:12
Speaker 1: And it seems like Matt Paul kind of responded in
8:15
Speaker 1: his own way on Instagram. So he shared a photo
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Speaker 1: dump from that weekend and someone commented on it saying,
8:22
Speaker 1: glad Posey is with you and not spending the whole
8:24
Speaker 1: time with the other kid's dad. So confusing for all involved.
8:27
Speaker 1: And Matt replied, simply agree. Wow. Yeah. I didn't know
8:32
Speaker 1: that things had gotten that frosty between them because Tammy
8:35
Speaker 1: really prides herself on having a good co-parenting relationship with
8:38
Speaker 1: both Matt and Reese, there were a few rumors that
8:41
Speaker 1: maybe things weren't going well in the background when he
8:43
Speaker 1: did like that post mocking her crying after breaking up
8:46
Speaker 1: with Matt Zukowski. Yeah. Judging by their social media interactions,
8:50
Speaker 1: it seems like things are a little bit tense between
8:52
Speaker 1: Tammy and Matt Paul. I want to talk about where
8:55
Speaker 1: Liv Kelly fits into all of this because she is
8:58
Speaker 1: a Gold Coast Fitness influencer who recently went Instagram official
9:03
Speaker 1: with Reese Hawkins They may live in different countries, but
9:06
Speaker 1: they are boyfriend and girlfriend. Rhys, of course, resides in Bali.
9:09
Speaker 1: It does seem like she is the reason why he's
9:11
Speaker 1: spending a lot of time in Australia as well. I mean,
9:14
Speaker 1: I feel a little bit torn on that because it's
9:15
Speaker 1: nice for his kids, but then it's like, well, why
9:17
Speaker 1: aren't you here visiting your kids rather than your girlfriend?
9:19
Speaker 1: But anyway. Liv Kelly is yet to officially comment on
9:23
Speaker 1: the recent Tammy Reese situation. It's interesting to note, though,
9:26
Speaker 1: that she shared a photo dump from the weekend but
9:28
Speaker 1: didn't include photos of Reese in it, even though he
9:31
Speaker 1: was on the Gold Coast. So do we think they've
9:33
Speaker 1: had a massive argument following some of Tammy's posts? Well,
9:36
Speaker 1: I think so because on Saturday she also shared a
9:38
Speaker 1: video of her miming to a trending sound of Kylie
9:41
Speaker 1: Jenner saying, Dude, I'm getting my personality back though. Like,
9:44
Speaker 1: I'm feeling like myself again. I really was not myself.
9:47
Speaker 1: And someone commented on the video, just end things with
9:50
Speaker 1: Reese so he can be with Tammy. They suit each
9:52
Speaker 1: other so well. Now, another person jumped in and wrote
9:55
Speaker 1: back to the commenter, Tammy treated Reese as a doormat
9:58
Speaker 1: and used the children to punish him. Please just... are
10:19
Speaker 1: their friends in fake accounts? I think they are genuine.
10:23
Speaker 1: I mean, there were a lot of people saying that
10:25
Speaker 1: the situation between Tammy and Rhys is very reminiscent of
10:28
Speaker 1: how she acted when he started dating London Gowan, who
10:31
Speaker 1: ended up being his wife. They have now split up. Well,
10:34
Speaker 1: Liv continued to stoke the fire on Tuesday. She shared
10:36
Speaker 1: a compilation of clips of herself with the trending sound.
10:40
Speaker 1: Just be a little more thoughtful and a little bit
10:42
Speaker 1: kinder because you really don't know what somebody's dealing with
10:45
Speaker 1: or going through. And she captioned that video saying a
10:49
Speaker 1: YouTube video was coming with a full life update. Now,
10:52
Speaker 1: I went and checked the YouTube channel to see if
10:54
Speaker 1: it was out before we recorded. It is not out yet,
10:57
Speaker 1: but I noted that Liv only has 63 subscribers on
11:00
Speaker 1: the platform. So I found it quite interesting because maybe
11:03
Speaker 1: she is also using this as a bit of a
11:05
Speaker 1: content strategy and thinks, oh, well, I'm getting a bit
11:06
Speaker 1: of extra attention from this Tammy situation. I may as
11:09
Speaker 1: well bolster my influencing career.
11:11
Speaker 3: A shockingly offensive thing to say.
11:13
Speaker 1: Absolutely. It is not the last album.
11:16
Speaker 3: It's not why people get married.
11:18
Speaker 1: No, exactly. So that they can quit their job. Last Friday,
11:22
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift dropped her 12th album, The Life of a Showgirl,
11:25
Speaker 1: to polarizing reviews. Despite the album breaking streaming and sales records,
11:30
Speaker 1: Taylor is copying Backlash, even from her most diehard fans. Now, Kate,
11:35
Speaker 1: as one of those, I want to know how do
11:36
Speaker 1: you feel about the album? Well, I was personally taken
11:39
Speaker 1: aback by the negative response because I loved the album
11:43
Speaker 1: from the get-go. And that hasn't been something I've experienced
11:46
Speaker 1: since Lover. So I really did like Tortured Poet's Department,
11:51
Speaker 1: but it took me a while to get into it.
11:53
Speaker 1: I mean, there were so many songs released. It was like,
11:55
Speaker 1: you know, 30 different songs. It was a bit of
11:56
Speaker 1: a slow burn. Yeah, it was more of a slow burn.
11:59
Speaker 1: But with this album... From the get go, I'm like,
12:01
Speaker 1: love that, love that. I've got that stuck in my head.
12:03
Speaker 1: Like I can actually listen to the full album and
12:05
Speaker 1: there's no skips for me. Because we're pretty basic. I
12:08
Speaker 1: love anything pop. So this album really speaks to me.
12:11
Speaker 1: And again, because we were listening and we were instantly
12:14
Speaker 1: messaging each other our reaction to each song. Love it.
12:17
Speaker 1: Love that. Love that. Oh my God, this is, it
12:19
Speaker 1: gets even better. So I was pretty shocked to see
12:22
Speaker 1: the reaction online from people. People who I think are
12:25
Speaker 1: almost acting like they're too cool to be a Taylor
12:28
Speaker 1: Swift fan. Well, I think there are two camps because
12:30
Speaker 1: I think it does depend on what albums of Taylor's
12:32
Speaker 1: are your favorite. So for me, I loved 1989. I
12:36
Speaker 1: loved Lover. I loved Reputation. They're probably my top three
12:39
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift albums. And I think that The Life of
12:41
Speaker 1: a Showgirl has that vibe, a mixture of all three
12:43
Speaker 1: of those. It really seems to be the folklore and
12:46
Speaker 1: ever more fans who are struggling with this album release. Yeah.
12:49
Speaker 1: I mean, they are probably my least favorite Taylor Swift albums.
12:53
Speaker 1: I tried really hard to listen to them leading into
12:55
Speaker 1: the Ears tour because I knew that was such a
12:57
Speaker 1: big portion of the tour. And I admit there are
12:59
Speaker 1: some really good songs on there. Like, I love August.
13:02
Speaker 1: But to me, that's not really the type of music
13:04
Speaker 1: I like listening to. But it doesn't mean that I
13:07
Speaker 1: went on social media and absolutely slammed Taylor, which is
13:10
Speaker 1: what has been happening. It seems like a lot of
13:11
Speaker 1: people have just been waiting to have a go at her. Well,
13:14
Speaker 1: it's tall poppy syndrome. A lot of people have labelled
13:17
Speaker 1: the lyrics as cringe. And there's also a lot of
13:19
Speaker 1: hate being directed at her fiancé, Travis Kelsey. They say
13:23
Speaker 1: that he's not a good enough muse. Yeah, I mean,
13:25
Speaker 1: that was the case even when Taylor released Tortured Poets
13:29
Speaker 1: because a couple of the songs on the album were
13:32
Speaker 1: about Travis, so High School and also The Alchemy. And
13:35
Speaker 1: there was a lot of conversations online about how the
13:38
Speaker 1: lyrics were quite juvenile. Again, they were probably two of
13:40
Speaker 1: my favourite songs from Tortured Poets, so I think it
13:43
Speaker 1: just depends on the type of music people like. I
13:46
Speaker 1: think there's been a longstanding fear for quite some time
13:48
Speaker 1: now that when Taylor gets married... that she's suddenly going
13:52
Speaker 1: to become a shit writer and not have any heartbreak
13:55
Speaker 1: to talk about anymore. And I think that people are
13:57
Speaker 1: almost projecting that into this album. Yeah, well, there were
14:00
Speaker 1: a lot of people complaining online that Taylor being happy
14:03
Speaker 1: doesn't generate the same level of penmanship that it does
14:05
Speaker 1: when she is heartbroken. And there were even people saying
14:08
Speaker 1: that they can't wait for the divorce album. Now, this
14:12
Speaker 1: type of commentary led the New Yorker to run with
14:14
Speaker 1: the headline, do we still like Taylor Swift when she's happy?
14:17
Speaker 1: In the article, the journalist Tyler Fogart wrote, The weak
14:20
Speaker 1: lyricism in the Travis Kelsey-inspired songs and the life of
14:23
Speaker 1: a showgirl has led to some of the most virulent
14:25
Speaker 1: and sexist anti-Swift discourse in years. Some have gone so
14:29
Speaker 1: far as to speculate that Allman was ghostwriting Swift songs
14:32
Speaker 1: all along, which is especially devastating given how much time
14:36
Speaker 1: Swift has spent fighting not only to be recognized as
14:38
Speaker 1: a songwriter, but to claim ownership of her own work.
14:42
Speaker 1: It's incredibly unfair that this is being pushed. There's just
14:45
Speaker 1: this general tone of nastiness towards Travis where people are saying,
14:49
Speaker 1: she is dumbing down her writing just to impress him.
14:53
Speaker 2: Yeah.
14:53
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just so sexist to say, oh, Joe
14:55
Speaker 1: Olin must have written all of her good lyrics. I mean, yes,
14:58
Speaker 1: he was a co-writer on Folklore and Evermore. But do
15:02
Speaker 1: we not think that potentially it is more about him
15:05
Speaker 1: as a muse? It seems like Taylor was never really
15:08
Speaker 1: that confident in that relationship and she was always trying
15:11
Speaker 1: to work on it. Whereas this album, it reflects that
15:13
Speaker 1: she's in a very happy and healthy relationship with Travis Kelsey.
15:17
Speaker 1: Is that not what we want? And I also think
15:19
Speaker 1: that potentially a lot of the people who don't like
15:22
Speaker 1: the album are in their heartbreak era and that's why
15:25
Speaker 1: it's not resonating with them. Well, in that New Yorker piece,
15:28
Speaker 1: the journalist also explored the notion that Taylor's longest and
15:32
Speaker 1: most intense relationship has been this parasocial one that she
15:35
Speaker 1: has with her fans. So Tyler wrote, Swift's fans feel
15:38
Speaker 1: like they know her and have a deep personal connection
15:41
Speaker 1: with her. They are just as invested in her music
15:44
Speaker 1: as they are in her life. And at least until now,
15:47
Speaker 1: those two things haven't been in conflict. For years, it
15:50
Speaker 1: felt like she wrote songs that spoke to the core
15:52
Speaker 1: of the female experience at its most vulnerable. It felt
15:55
Speaker 1: like she lived and learned in parallel with her listeners,
15:58
Speaker 1: and that feeling is gone. Now, at the end of
16:00
Speaker 1: the article, Tyler also posed the question, Swift is about
16:04
Speaker 1: to marry Kelsey, but it's possible that in Showgirl, she's
16:07
Speaker 1: breaking up with us. Look, I think there's a lot
16:09
Speaker 1: of truth to what Tyler Fogart has written there. I mean,
16:13
Speaker 1: it kind of reminds me of You know, we touched
16:16
Speaker 1: on how as a female, you go through a lot
16:18
Speaker 1: of different life stages and in your early twenties, it
16:22
Speaker 1: does seem like you lose a lot of friends because,
16:24
Speaker 1: you know, you're no longer in high school, you're no
16:26
Speaker 1: longer doing the same things, you drift apart. And then
16:28
Speaker 1: there is that time in life when you get married
16:30
Speaker 1: and you have children and your life may no longer
16:33
Speaker 1: reflect that of your friends. So you kind of move
16:35
Speaker 1: around a bit and it's not about having some massive fire.
16:37
Speaker 1: It's just about you no longer connect on that level anymore.
16:40
Speaker 1: You're not doing the same sort of things. And I
16:43
Speaker 1: think this album about being very happily in love and
16:46
Speaker 1: about to get married is quite polarizing to people that
16:48
Speaker 1: are still in their tortured poets era. I just think
16:50
Speaker 1: this album is just a change of pace. It's about
16:53
Speaker 1: being happy. And she's very happy at the moment. It's
16:56
Speaker 1: the perfect album for us Aussies when we're approaching summer.
17:00
Speaker 1: These songs are going to be so much fun to
17:01
Speaker 1: listen to driving on a summer's day to the beach.
17:04
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:05
Speaker 1: I think this backlash was inevitable though, because Taylor has
17:08
Speaker 1: hit the absolute pinnacle, both professionally and personally. So she's
17:12
Speaker 1: released this album off the back of officially becoming a
17:15
Speaker 1: billionaire from the era's tour. She's of course had the
17:18
Speaker 1: era's tour and has just announced her engagement recently. So
17:22
Speaker 1: To me, it's just a classic case of tall poppy syndrome.
17:25
Speaker 1: People feel this innate sense to take her down a
17:27
Speaker 1: peg or two. But it's also down to social media
17:30
Speaker 1: because everyone is so keen to create a viral video
17:33
Speaker 1: these days. And the only way you're going to do
17:36
Speaker 1: that is by having a controversial take on things. To
17:39
Speaker 1: be fair, though, people are allowed to not like the album.
17:42
Speaker 1: I wasn't a massive fan of Folklore or Evermore. And
17:45
Speaker 1: I think people can respectfully discuss that maybe this wasn't
17:49
Speaker 1: the album for them. But the way people are now
17:52
Speaker 1: ganging up, it just seems like it's an excuse to
17:54
Speaker 1: absolutely rip on Taylor Swift. It's like the cool thing
17:57
Speaker 1: to do is to not like Taylor Swift at the moment.
17:59
Speaker 1: I also think that there's an undercurrent of ageism that's happening.
18:02
Speaker 1: There are a lot of Gen Zers on TikTok who
18:05
Speaker 1: are calling Taylor's lyrics cringe and saying that she's this
18:08
Speaker 1: daggy millennial and she shouldn't be using TikTok references. I
18:12
Speaker 1: think this also has a lot to do with the
18:13
Speaker 1: fact that it's the first time Taylor has actually embarked
18:16
Speaker 1: on a proper press tour to promote an album for
18:19
Speaker 1: six years. So the last time she did a media
18:21
Speaker 1: tour like this was for Lover in 2019. And if
18:24
Speaker 1: you think back, there was no press tour for Folklore
18:26
Speaker 1: or Evermore, which were surprise album drops during the pandemic.
18:30
Speaker 1: As for Midnights and Torture Poets, it was very limited
18:32
Speaker 1: media activity. So For those four albums, Taylor really let
18:36
Speaker 1: the music and fan theories drive the buzz. However, this
18:40
Speaker 1: time she's launched the album off the back of a
18:42
Speaker 1: two-hour sit-down podcast interview with her fiance, Travis Kelsey. She
18:46
Speaker 1: also has a movie out explaining the meaning behind each
18:49
Speaker 1: of the songs. We really haven't seen Taylor Swift do
18:52
Speaker 1: this much media since the 1989 era. Perhaps it's just
18:56
Speaker 1: an oversaturation and there's too much for fans to talk
18:59
Speaker 1: about because previously it's like, okay, all we know are
19:02
Speaker 1: the lyrics, so we have to really dissect them. But
19:04
Speaker 1: Taylor's almost made it too easy for everyone. I also
19:07
Speaker 1: think some of this comes down to her hyping the
19:10
Speaker 1: album up on Travis's podcast, saying that this was one
19:12
Speaker 1: of her best albums and she knows that the fans
19:15
Speaker 1: will love it. Because as soon as someone says that,
19:18
Speaker 1: that's building a lot of anticipation. A lot of people
19:20
Speaker 1: also seem to be confused because it was called The
19:22
Speaker 1: Life of a Showgirl. They're like, oh, there should be
19:24
Speaker 1: more songs about being a showgirl. To me, I'm not
19:26
Speaker 1: interested in that. Like, I thought it was quite apparent
19:29
Speaker 1: from that interview on New Heights that Taylor was going
19:32
Speaker 1: to take you behind the scenes of what was going
19:34
Speaker 1: on in her life while she was a showgirl. It's
19:37
Speaker 1: like the normal moments of her being a 35-year-old woman
19:40
Speaker 1: having a new relationship. It wasn't about her being on
19:44
Speaker 1: stage and what's going on, you know, that she was
19:46
Speaker 1: tired or, you know, fan reactions and stuff. It wasn't
19:49
Speaker 1: ever going to be about that. I mean, essentially that's
19:52
Speaker 1: what I Can Do It With A Broken Heart was about.
19:54
Speaker 1: I think people thought that there would be some similar
19:56
Speaker 1: tracks to that, but she'd already done it. Yeah. Can't
19:58
Speaker 1: do it again. I mean, I wasn't that disappointed because
20:00
Speaker 1: I do like that song, but again, I just want
20:02
Speaker 1: to hear what's going on behind the scenes with her
20:04
Speaker 1: and Travis Kelsey. And that's what she gave us. In
20:07
Speaker 1: terms of this media tour, she did a lot of
20:10
Speaker 1: UK press. So she did a bunch of UK radio interviews.
20:13
Speaker 1: She was also on the Graham Norton show. Did you
20:15
Speaker 1: find that a bit strange? I mean, I suppose the
20:18
Speaker 1: UK is probably the next biggest market. So maybe that
20:20
Speaker 1: was the reason behind it. Or maybe she wanted to
20:23
Speaker 1: get under the skin of some of her... UK exes,
20:25
Speaker 1: who knows? Well, that's what I was thinking. And I
20:28
Speaker 1: actually heard Zara McDonald on Shameless talking about it too.
20:30
Speaker 1: And it validated my feelings because she's like, well, was
20:33
Speaker 1: it a way of getting back at Jo Orwin about
20:35
Speaker 1: how happy she is? And I think at the moment
20:38
Speaker 1: with Taylor and Travis Kelsey, Taylor is very oversaturated in
20:41
Speaker 1: the US at the moment. So it made sense to
20:45
Speaker 1: do interviews in the UK and the US. But The
20:48
Speaker 1: UK interviews were prioritized over the US ones. Like she
20:51
Speaker 1: did the UK interviews the day the album launched. She
20:54
Speaker 1: then did the US ones a couple of days later.
20:57
Speaker 1: Maybe she thought the UK media would be kinder to her.
21:00
Speaker 1: She does have a really strong connection to the UK
21:02
Speaker 1: considering she lived there for quite some time. Now, Taylor
21:05
Speaker 1: has responded to the mixed reviews. She said she welcomes
21:08
Speaker 1: the chaos. Let's throw to some of what she said.
21:11
Speaker 3: The rule of show business is if it's the first
21:14
Speaker 3: week of my album release and you are saying either
21:17
Speaker 3: my name or my album title, you're helping. And art,
21:23
Speaker 3: I have a lot of respect for people's subjective opinions
21:26
Speaker 3: on art. I'm not the art police. It's like everybody
21:31
Speaker 3: is allowed to feel exactly how they want. And what
21:35
Speaker 3: our goal is as entertainers is to be a mirror.
21:37
Speaker 3: oftentimes an album is a really, really wild way to
21:41
Speaker 3: look at yourself, right? What you're going through in your
21:45
Speaker 3: life is going to affect whether you relate to the
21:49
Speaker 3: music that I'm putting out at any given moment. And
21:52
Speaker 3: what I often love seeing my fans say is, I
21:55
Speaker 3: used to be someone who didn't like relate to reputation.
22:00
Speaker 3: And now that I've been through some other things in
22:02
Speaker 3: my life, that's my favorite album. Or I used to
22:04
Speaker 3: be a fearless girly. Now I'm obsessed with Evermore. And
22:09
Speaker 3: we're doing this thing for keeps. I have such an
22:14
Speaker 3: eye on legacy when I'm making my music. I know
22:17
Speaker 3: what I made. I know I adore it. And I
22:20
Speaker 3: know that on the theme of what the showgirl is,
22:23
Speaker 3: all of this is part of it.
22:27
Speaker 1: I mean, Taylor Swift is the queen of marketing. She
22:28
Speaker 1: knows what gets people talking and she's happy to create
22:31
Speaker 1: the discussion. I know a lot of people are actually
22:33
Speaker 1: labeling her greedy at the moment because of all of
22:36
Speaker 1: these multiple limited edition album drops that she's been doing.
22:39
Speaker 1: She's been doing them for years. It just seems like
22:41
Speaker 1: it's a chance for people to have a go at
22:43
Speaker 1: her again. Well, Taylor's also smart enough to know that
22:45
Speaker 1: this is the reaction just one week after releasing her album.
22:49
Speaker 1: These songs are incredibly catchy and I think that they're
22:51
Speaker 1: going to grow on a lot of Swifties. Yeah, I
22:54
Speaker 1: think so too. I think in a couple of weeks'
22:55
Speaker 1: time a lot of the haters are going to turn
22:57
Speaker 1: into lovers of the album. They're also absolute bangers for
23:01
Speaker 1: TikTok because these are the perfect soundbites for people to
23:03
Speaker 1: create videos around. Yeah, I feel like we need to
23:06
Speaker 1: quickly touch on the whole Charli XCX thing because a
23:09
Speaker 1: lot of people are saying that they're unhappy with Taylor
23:12
Speaker 1: for punching down. She, of course, has released a diss
23:15
Speaker 1: track that everyone thinks is about Charli XCX I didn't
23:18
Speaker 1: really know much about their relationship before this song. What
23:21
Speaker 1: I found most interesting is the fact that Charlie and
23:24
Speaker 1: Taylor both dated guys from the 1975. Of course, Maddie
23:28
Speaker 1: Healy and I actually don't even know who the other
23:30
Speaker 1: guy is. The other guy. That other guy. And then Charlie,
23:33
Speaker 1: of course, released a song called Sympathy is a Knife
23:36
Speaker 1: on her album Brat. And she sung lyrics, don't want
23:39
Speaker 1: to see her backstage at my boyfriend's show. Fingers crossed
23:42
Speaker 1: behind my back. I hope they break up quick. I
23:44
Speaker 1: don't want to share this space. I don't want to
23:46
Speaker 1: force a smile. This one girl taps my insecurities. Don't
23:50
Speaker 1: know if it's real or I'm spiraling because I couldn't
23:52
Speaker 1: even be her if I tried. I'm opposite. I'm on
23:54
Speaker 1: the other side. Now, a lot of people have said, well,
23:57
Speaker 1: Taylor has really bitten back in a harsh way and
24:00
Speaker 1: that Charlie was more talking about her own personal insecurities.
24:04
Speaker 1: I want to remind people we don't actually know what
24:05
Speaker 1: went on behind the scenes. Like the fact that they
24:07
Speaker 1: both dated guys from the same band and Taylor is
24:10
Speaker 1: hearing that Charlie is high-fiving Maddie Healy that they've broken up.
24:14
Speaker 1: Like there's obviously a lot more to this story. But
24:16
Speaker 1: it's also quite clear that this reaction is coming from
24:18
Speaker 1: very new Taylor Swift fans who have jumped on the
24:20
Speaker 1: bandwagon because Taylor Swift has always been petty. Yeah, she's
24:23
Speaker 1: always been petty. And that's what I love about her,
24:26
Speaker 1: her absolute pettiness. I mean, and in terms of punching down,
24:28
Speaker 1: when you're Taylor Swift, I mean, you're always punching down.
24:31
Speaker 1: Who does she punch up to? There's no one above her. No,
24:35
Speaker 1: I mean, was she not punching down to Matt Healy? Yeah, exactly. Which,
24:38
Speaker 1: I mean, her whole album, which was also a punch
24:41
Speaker 1: down to Joe Olin because they had this huge relationship
24:44
Speaker 1: and then the whole breakup album was about Matt Healy.
24:47
Speaker 1: I mean, in terms of any song about Joe Orland,
24:49
Speaker 1: she's punching down because he's not ultra successful either. I mean,
24:51
Speaker 1: no one is as successful as Taylor Swift. I mean,
24:54
Speaker 1: that is enough from us diehard Swifties. No, before we go,
24:57
Speaker 1: what's your favourite track on the album? Oh, we didn't
24:59
Speaker 1: even get into that. I have four. I love Elizabeth Taylor.
25:04
Speaker 2: Yes.
25:05
Speaker 1: Oh, Polite, Wishlist and Honey. It's so bad because they're
25:09
Speaker 1: all of my favourites too. I was listening to them
25:12
Speaker 1: whilst I was driving to your house and the sun
25:14
Speaker 1: was shining and I was like, this just makes me
25:16
Speaker 1: so happy. How can anyone dislike this? I know this
25:18
Speaker 1: whole segment has probably seemed a little bit biased because
25:20
Speaker 1: we are diehard Swifties, but I'm okay with putting that
25:23
Speaker 1: out there because I'm so sick of hearing recently people going, oh,
25:27
Speaker 1: I am a diehard Taylor Swift fan. I've gone to
25:29
Speaker 1: all the concerts. I've bought all the albums, but, and
25:31
Speaker 1: then they're like, oh, she's greedy. She's punching down like
25:34
Speaker 1: all of these. derogatory comments about her as a person.
25:37
Speaker 1: I mean, it's fair enough to say you don't like
25:39
Speaker 1: the songs, but you don't have to listen. Go and
25:41
Speaker 1: listen to some of the other albums. It's not that deep.
25:43
Speaker 1: It's just a fun pop album of happy songs. We
25:45
Speaker 1: are due for an album like this off the back
25:47
Speaker 1: of tortured poets. But she's also an incredibly talented writer
25:51
Speaker 1: that she doesn't have to be going through heartbreak to
25:53
Speaker 1: necessarily write a good song about heartbreak. I mean, listen
25:56
Speaker 1: to Death by a Thousand Cuts. That's one of my
25:58
Speaker 1: favorite breakup songs. And she wrote that when she was
26:00
Speaker 1: in a happy relationship with Joe Olwen. Let's get into
26:03
Speaker 1: our Friday debrief. And so I've been waiting to talk
26:06
Speaker 1: to you on Mike about this since last weekend. So
26:09
Speaker 1: we were lucky enough to be invited to the opening
26:12
Speaker 1: of Love Athletica's Hot Pilates Room in Norwood. It was
26:15
Speaker 1: a beautiful space and we were so thankful to be invited.
26:18
Speaker 1: It was such a fun day. I haven't exercised since
26:22
Speaker 1: before I had Jack. So it was actually nice to
26:25
Speaker 1: get back into it. It's been like two years. I
26:27
Speaker 1: feel like it was quite ambitious to do a hot
26:29
Speaker 1: Pilates class though. I've done a handful of workouts since
26:31
Speaker 1: having Luca, but this was probably the most intense environment
26:34
Speaker 1: being in the hot studio. Yeah. It was just funny
26:37
Speaker 1: being on the other side of an influencer event because
26:40
Speaker 1: we're very kindly gifted some workout gear. And before the event,
26:43
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, let us know what you feel comfortable wearing.
26:46
Speaker 1: And we're like, oh, okay. Like leggings and a t-shirt.
26:49
Speaker 1: Like we don't really want to wear a crop top.
26:51
Speaker 1: That's not sort of the era that we're in at
26:53
Speaker 1: the moment. And we got there. And we go into
26:57
Speaker 1: the change rooms and change into our outfit. Well, they
26:59
Speaker 1: had these really cute red bags. And as soon as
27:02
Speaker 1: you got on the change, you unzip them to discover
27:04
Speaker 1: what you would be wearing. And I assumed that people
27:06
Speaker 1: would be dressed in all different active wear to showcase
27:09
Speaker 1: this brand. But it turned out that we were the
27:12
Speaker 1: only ones who were dressed in T-shirts and leggings because
27:15
Speaker 1: we pulled out some maroon leggings, a pink top, came out,
27:19
Speaker 1: and then the rest of the people there who were
27:21
Speaker 1: mostly fitness influencers were wearing– red bike shorts with a
27:26
Speaker 1: red crop top. And they all looked incredible. I was like,
27:30
Speaker 1: oh my God, I wish I could get away with
27:33
Speaker 1: wearing that at the moment. Well, the vibe kind of
27:34
Speaker 1: reminded me of what Sarah's day was wearing in her
27:37
Speaker 1: high row commercial. Like it was that type of red.
27:40
Speaker 1: And yeah, I was like, oh my God, I have
27:42
Speaker 1: never felt more old and frumpy in my entire life.
27:45
Speaker 1: And then of course, Amy was also, Amy rocked up
27:47
Speaker 1: late and she was wearing the same thing. And we
27:49
Speaker 1: just looked like the dorks in the back. I got
27:51
Speaker 1: taken back to being a high school PE. And kind
27:54
Speaker 1: of it was like you'd missed the memo on what
27:56
Speaker 1: you were meant to wear. Like, you know, in Jeans
27:58
Speaker 1: for Jeans Day where you're like, okay, I've got my
28:00
Speaker 1: light denim and then you rock up and everyone's in
28:03
Speaker 1: dark denim. That's what it kind of felt like. I mean,
28:05
Speaker 1: I was feeling self-conscious enough knowing that all of the
28:07
Speaker 1: other people there were essentially fitness influencers. I don't know
28:10
Speaker 1: how we got on this invite list. But there was
28:13
Speaker 1: actually one other person. I think there were two other
28:16
Speaker 1: people wearing t-shirts and one was a journo that I
28:19
Speaker 1: used to work with and we had a bit of
28:20
Speaker 1: a laugh saying that we were the t-shirt crew. But
28:23
Speaker 1: it was a fabulous event overall. But yeah, again, I
28:26
Speaker 1: just already felt like a bit of a frumpy new mum.
28:29
Speaker 1: That kind of amplified it. I mean, I felt like
28:32
Speaker 1: it was a rookie error considering it was hot Pilates.
28:34
Speaker 1: I'm like, why the hell do we ask for long leggings?
28:36
Speaker 1: That was just a silly mistake here. Well, on that note,
28:39
Speaker 1: I think that is all we have time for today.
28:40
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us for this episode.
28:43
Speaker 1: If you have enjoyed it, could you please, please make
28:46
Speaker 1: sure you share where you're listening from. I love seeing it.
28:49
Speaker 1: And leave us a five-star review. And if you do
28:51
Speaker 1: want to hear more content from us, we drop a
28:53
Speaker 1: subscriber-only episode every Thursday. It's available on Spotify and Apple.
28:58
Speaker 1: All the details to subscribe it in our show notes.
29:00
Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the traditional land of the
29:03
Speaker 1: Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains. We pay respect to
29:05
Speaker 1: elders past and present.