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Marketing Coordinator, Apparently. · Roast the Post Podcast

0:01
Hey everyone,
0:02
welcome to Roast the Post,
0:03
the story behind the bullet points.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm Paul Austin Muneer,
0:06
SPEAKER_00: and I think job postings are a decoder ring for the hidden secrets of an
0:10
SPEAKER_00: organization.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: A posting might be trying to describe a role,
0:14
SPEAKER_00: but it usually describes the company,
0:16
SPEAKER_00: the clarity,
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SPEAKER_00: the chaos,
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SPEAKER_00: and the blind spots even more.
0:20
every week jen and i take a real job post and open it up to see
0:24
what's actually
0:25
going on behind the scenes is it a thoughtful role with a clear
0:28
purpose or is it a
0:30
wish list duct taped together by committee and quietly begging
0:34
for help we don't
0:35
SPEAKER_00: assume we read we analyze and we call it like we see it
0:40
SPEAKER_00: If you're a job seeker,
0:41
this show helps you understand what you're really walking into
0:44
before you hit
0:44
SPEAKER_00: apply.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: And if you're one of the job seeker seekers,
0:48
you'll get a front row view for how job postings you wrote land
0:51
with people who
0:52
SPEAKER_00: aren't already sitting inside your org chart.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: One of us brings a posting the other hasn't seen,
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SPEAKER_00: we react in real time,
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SPEAKER_00: and we wrap it up with our individual scores.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: Two different lenses, equally unfiltered.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: All right, let's roast.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: So we are here in our virtual studio,
1:10
SPEAKER_00: Jen and I,
1:12
SPEAKER_00: and this week we're going to talk about a pretty common,
1:16
SPEAKER_00: pretty basic job posting.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: And for the folks at home, Jen has not seen this.
1:22
I kind of found it myself and I'm going to drop it on her and
1:25
she's going to be in
1:26
SPEAKER_00: the hot seat to tell us what she thinks from that HR kind of perspective.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Jen, welcome.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
1:33
SPEAKER_00: Good weekend.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: Good weekend.
1:35
SPEAKER_02: Busy weekend.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Good, good.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: Well, without further ado, this job is for a marketing coordinator.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Very, very commonplace.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: Tons of companies have them, if not all companies.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Bit of a profile about the company.
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SPEAKER_00: So this company is a privately held company.
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SPEAKER_00: They are based in Aurora,
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Ontario,
2:02
which is kind of like Brampton way for the folks who are in
2:05
Ontario and kind of
2:07
SPEAKER_00: know it.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: For folks who are international,
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SPEAKER_00: not really familiar with that part of Canada,
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Aurora,
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SPEAKER_00: Brampton,
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SPEAKER_00: Mississauga,
2:13
SPEAKER_00: they're in Peel region.
2:14
They are just north of Toronto,
2:16
which is the most populous city in the country.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: This company works in the consumer packaging industry.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Their head office is in Aurora, like I mentioned.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: The working location and type for this job is also in Aurora.
2:34
This is a full-time permanent role where you're expected to be
2:38
in the office five days a week.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: They have clients in Canada and the United States.
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and we do not know what the job title of the supervisor is for
2:52
this role.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: So that sets the stage.
2:57
Now what I'm going to do for the folks at home is I'm going to
2:59
read out each
3:00
section of the job posting to Jen and ask her what she thinks
3:04
about it from her
3:06
perspective and experience of many years working in HR and
3:10
people operations.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm excited.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: I've got my notebook.
3:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to take notes.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: let's get started okay first section position summary
3:24
The marketing coordinator will support marketing initiatives
3:27
with support and
3:28
SPEAKER_00: ownership of our sample coordination program.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: In this role,
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SPEAKER_00: they will contribute to marketing collaterals,
3:35
SPEAKER_00: events,
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SPEAKER_00: cross-department projects,
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SPEAKER_00: while also ensuring that our customers,
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SPEAKER_00: brokers,
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SPEAKER_00: and sales team receive timely,
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SPEAKER_00: professional,
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SPEAKER_00: and branded samples that showcase and highlight our products.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: What did you think about that section?
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SPEAKER_00: Kind of short compared to some.
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very short that's a really nice short intro um and so far from
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what i'm reading it
4:00
really speaks to a coordinator level so they're using a lot of
4:04
language like
4:05
supports which to me is a good match for a coordinator entry
4:09
level type position um
4:12
there is they mention ownership of a type of program support
4:16
and ownership so
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SPEAKER_02: that's a little bit ambiguous to me
4:20
SPEAKER_02: What part are they supporting?
4:21
SPEAKER_02: What part are they owning?
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But hopefully the rest of the job posting will go into that a
4:26
little bit more.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: What are your thoughts?
4:31
SPEAKER_00: It's basic.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't hate it.
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One thing that drives me a little bit nuts is when companies
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and companies
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This is usually companies that have marketing departments that
4:42
think about branding
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SPEAKER_00: and how we're perceived and the whole global brand thing.
4:49
They put in a lot of fluff and they try and jam into that
4:52
position summary
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SPEAKER_00: everything about the company.
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SPEAKER_00: What the company does and what their hopes and aspirations are.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: And it's completely irrelevant for someone looking for a job.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: It's a waste of time.
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SPEAKER_00: It really just kind of happens to...
5:07
SPEAKER_00: you know,
5:07
SPEAKER_00: kind of pat yourself on the back,
5:09
SPEAKER_00: like,
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Ooh,
5:09
SPEAKER_00: I work for this fantastic,
5:10
SPEAKER_00: amazing company.
5:11
You know,
5:12
there's a place for that in employer branding,
5:14
but the summary,
5:15
that ain't the place.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: So this was nice.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: It was nice and short and it was to the point that was great.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: Next section.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: So this is a,
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what they've done with this job posting is they've kind of
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broken down everything
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into responsibilities and there's tons and tons and tons of
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bullet points.
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So we're going right from the summary into what the job
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responsibilities are.
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SPEAKER_00: Next section, job responsibilities.
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SPEAKER_02: There's no about the company to kind of like bridge into it.
5:45
SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Not, there is no about the company here.
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SPEAKER_00: They get right into the meat of it.
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SPEAKER_00: So job responsibilities,
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SPEAKER_00: marketing support,
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SPEAKER_00: draft,
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SPEAKER_00: design,
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SPEAKER_00: edit,
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SPEAKER_00: and manage marketing collaterals,
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SPEAKER_00: sell sheets,
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SPEAKER_00: brochures,
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SPEAKER_00: digital ads,
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SPEAKER_00: support distribution of marketing collateral to customers and brokers,
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SPEAKER_00: update product information,
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SPEAKER_00: such as packaging product descriptions in marketing portals and database.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: Consolidate and finesse PowerPoint presentation decks.
6:19
Ensure accuracy and consistency of messaging across accounts
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and channels.
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Act as a second set of eyes for packaging review and approvals
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to ensure final sign off.
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SPEAKER_00: All other administrative tasks as required.
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SPEAKER_00: Job responsibilities continuing on.
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SPEAKER_00: Sample coordination.
6:40
Process and track daily sample requests from sales,
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brokers,
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and customers.
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Assemble and brand sample kits with correct labels,
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inserts,
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and packaging.
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SPEAKER_00: Coordinate with marketing and sales to prepare mockups for presentations.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: Monitor and replenish sample inventory.
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SPEAKER_00: Anticipate upcoming needs.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: And finally,
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arrange courier shipments and confirm timely delivery for
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customer meetings and
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SPEAKER_00: trade shows.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm going to break there.
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There are more job responsibilities,
7:11
but let's talk about those two sections.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: What did you think?
7:14
okay i like i like this job posting so far this to me is really
7:19
um it sounds like
7:21
there are a lot of bullet points i going into a job i would
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rather know all of the
7:26
things that i'm in for so on on that end i'm okay with it i
7:30
like the language the
7:31
language still to me it's true to the job title a lot of times
7:35
there's a big gap
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SPEAKER_02: between the job title like they're not generous on the job title
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But with the responsibilities,
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it's like you're all the things you have to do.
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SPEAKER_02: And there's a big gap there.
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SPEAKER_02: To me, they're still using the right language like support.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: I like how they talk about finessing,
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SPEAKER_02: like zhuzhing things up and things like various administrative tasks.
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SPEAKER_02: That's OK with me.
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SPEAKER_02: Anticipate upcoming needs.
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SPEAKER_02: That's what I would want to see in this role as well.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: So so far, I really I really like it.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: I think that it's a pretty dope job posting.
8:08
SPEAKER_02: What about you?
8:10
SPEAKER_01: But don't you like PowerPoint?
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SPEAKER_02: PowerPoint decks.
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So it's interesting to me that they are calling out PowerPoint
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presentation decks specifically.
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SPEAKER_00: And that tells me that there's a sales process in place that is...
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I don't want to say like archaic is not,
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but it's a little bit old school.
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SPEAKER_00: So like you're,
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you're putting together a deck and you're like jazzing it up
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and whatever,
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SPEAKER_00: like,
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let's give that to the young 20 something that knows how the
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technology works.
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Like it gives me that kind of vibe where I would expect
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something like that to be
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SPEAKER_00: more about the functions.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: Like I would have said,
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SPEAKER_00: or the function,
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SPEAKER_00: I would have said something like,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: consolidate and finesse sales presentations.
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SPEAKER_00: And then that kind of says,
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SPEAKER_00: like,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: however we present,
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SPEAKER_00: we're going to kind of fix it up,
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SPEAKER_00: make it good,
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SPEAKER_00: whatever.
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SPEAKER_00: The presentation with PowerPoint thing,
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it tells me that they're very locked into that kind of old
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school sales thing.
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SPEAKER_00: And that would stick out in my brain.
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SPEAKER_00: because there are some potentially issues that come along with that.
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SPEAKER_00: Like there could be cultural stuff.
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This really tells me that this is like a long running company
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that's established,
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SPEAKER_00: maybe not so innovative,
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SPEAKER_00: which for someone like me would drive me absolutely nuts.
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SPEAKER_00: Like I wouldn't dig working in that kind of environment.
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So for someone else who is kind of the same and kind of wants
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innovation and fresh
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SPEAKER_00: things might be a warning flag,
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but I would not consider it enough of a warning flag to like
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ditch this and toss it
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SPEAKER_00: in the bin right now.
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SPEAKER_02: I like that insight.
9:50
I think it's interesting that like,
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so you,
9:53
you judge a book by its office tools,
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right?
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SPEAKER_02: Like you're saying if they're using PowerPoint,
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SPEAKER_02: They're old school.
10:02
SPEAKER_02: I think that's interesting.
10:05
It'll be interesting to see a little bit more about like what
10:08
kind of if they share
10:09
SPEAKER_02: what kind of environment it is,
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SPEAKER_02: because you're right,
10:11
SPEAKER_02: though,
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SPEAKER_02: it might mean that they're an older company,
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SPEAKER_02: that they're using the same tools that they've always used,
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and they're not going to be open to introducing new and
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innovative software
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SPEAKER_02: technology.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: Who knows, though?
10:25
SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
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SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's a bit too early to say that.
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SPEAKER_02: But I like where you're going with that.
10:33
I've worked at a company before that was using like the Google
10:38
suite and due to the
10:40
work that they were doing with their clients and accessibility
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and like safety or
10:46
SPEAKER_02: just type of like compliance issues,
10:49
SPEAKER_02: they changed to using Office 365 and nobody was happy about it,
10:54
SPEAKER_02: but everyone understood why that change was made.
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SPEAKER_02: So I think that there's sometimes that happens too.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's something to call out here.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: You, for anybody at home who was kind of like, who's this Jen person?
11:09
You called out a bias right there that I didn't even fully kind
11:14
of recognize that I
11:15
SPEAKER_00: had until you called it out.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do very much judge a book by its technology systems.
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SPEAKER_00: I come from an operations background, very, very heavy in ICT.
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SPEAKER_00: Like I was one of the people who is leading the architecture design and
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SPEAKER_00: implementation of systems.
11:30
And I've always been biased towards more kind of technology and
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flexibility and
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SPEAKER_00: extensibility forward systems.
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So anytime I came across like a word doc,
11:40
I'd be like,
11:42
come on,
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what are we doing?
11:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes, what year is it?
11:46
SPEAKER_00: What year is it?
11:47
SPEAKER_00: But you're right.
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SPEAKER_00: I did kind of link those two things together subconsciously.
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SPEAKER_00: So maybe that's my bad.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: Next section.
11:56
SPEAKER_02: But I don't think you're wrong.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying you're wrong.
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I hate using PowerPoint,
12:02
but I'm a Canva person personally,
12:06
but to each their own.
12:07
SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: Next section.
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SPEAKER_00: And this is continuing on with job responsibilities.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: Customer slash product complaint management.
12:21
SPEAKER_02: Ooh, sorry.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: Didn't even wait for that one.
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SPEAKER_02: I didn't even wait.
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SPEAKER_00: I think that you're going to have some things to say about this.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: That is good.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: I like it.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh, my apologies.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'll read the bullet points now.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: Customer and product complaint management.
12:45
Record and maintain product complaint logs for reporting and
12:48
process improvement.
12:50
Collaborate with CSQA OPPS,
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CS slash QA slash OPPS to resolve product or delivery issues.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: Draft professional responses to customers and document resolutions.
13:06
Now we're going to break here because you just had that
13:08
visceral reaction.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
13:11
SPEAKER_02: I did, but I feel like they turned the ship.
13:14
SPEAKER_02: I think I reacted a little bit too soon.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: They're not saying you have to deal with all of this.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: They're saying that you have to, you will collaborate with certain teams.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: So I feel a little bit better about that.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: It also mentioned something about drafting responses.
13:31
It doesn't necessarily say you're the one who has to give the
13:34
responses and you're logging.
13:38
things so I do feel a little bit better right away I just felt
13:41
like please let's
13:43
not harm this poor sweet baby angel marketing coordinator with
13:49
having to deal with
13:51
things that just really they shouldn't have to so I do feel a
13:55
little bit better I
13:55
apologize to this company for that knee-jerk reaction I just
13:59
want to protect
14:01
SPEAKER_02: protect everyone that's all
14:06
SPEAKER_00: So let's pull something out from what you said there.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: Kind of summarizing all of that,
14:12
SPEAKER_00: what you've said is that,
14:14
and this kind of links to a conversation about accountability
14:16
and authority.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: So what you're saying is that it doesn't sound like this company
14:22
putting everything on this person's shoulders so they're not
14:26
going to be expected
14:30
to you know deal with the customer stuff themselves like that
14:34
authority and
14:34
accountability isn't being wholesale shifted to them which is
14:37
what were the case it
14:38
would be totally inappropriate for this type of role right like
14:42
an entry-level
14:43
SPEAKER_00: marketing coordinator dealing with really angry customers mm-hmm
14:47
SPEAKER_00: That ain't good, but that's not what's happening here.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: That's not what's happening.
14:51
SPEAKER_02: They're getting a line of sight,
14:53
which is so important for their learning as they develop in the
14:58
organization,
14:59
SPEAKER_02: maybe in the organization.
15:00
They need to know what kind of complaints are coming in from
15:04
customers,
15:04
product complaints.
15:05
So this is actually,
15:06
to me,
15:07
a really good way for them to gain that insight and learn.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: But like you said, they're not responsible for it.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: It's not all on their shoulders.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: So I'm not mad at this.
15:19
One thing that I probably would have changed with this is the
15:22
acronyms,
15:23
CS,
15:24
QA,
15:24
OPPS.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: People might not know what those are.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: Like I would have written them out as customer service,
15:31
SPEAKER_00: maybe CS in brackets,
15:34
SPEAKER_00: quality assurance,
15:35
SPEAKER_00: maybe QA in brackets.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: OPPS, I am not quite sure what that is.
15:40
SPEAKER_02: Is that a... I knew what that was.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what...
15:45
SPEAKER_02: So you're right.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: You're right about that.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Is it supposed to be operations, but with an extra P for some reason?
15:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but what's OPPS?
15:54
SPEAKER_02: I have, maybe it's just an ode to the old Bobby Brown song.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: I have no, no idea.
16:01
But I will say that just like you mentioned,
16:05
this is a good call out using acronyms.
16:09
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't work in job postings,
16:10
SPEAKER_02: even though one might assume,
16:12
SPEAKER_02: well,
16:12
then you're not the right person for this role if you don't
16:14
know what these mean.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
16:15
Like you could say that,
16:16
but companies have their own pattern language too.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: So it very well could be something that they're using.
16:21
just in-house it's something to keep in mind the other thing is
16:25
the same goes for
16:26
your resume so you shouldn't be using your acronyms in resumes
16:32
either you should be
16:33
listing out the words so that the person reading it screening
16:37
it can understand
16:38
what it is that you're talking about it might be relevant to
16:41
the role uh it might
16:42
not be but we don't know what we don't know so list things out
16:46
completely yeah and
16:49
SPEAKER_00: um
16:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's nothing else really for me to say other than yes.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: Next section.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you know what?
17:02
SPEAKER_00: There was something else I was going to say on that one.
17:04
So the fact that there are acronyms in there and it's kind of
17:09
written out with this
17:10
really to the point bullet point structure tells me that at the
17:14
very least there
17:15
SPEAKER_00: was someone extremely operations minded.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: either putting in input to this post or they wrote it themselves.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: So that suggests to me that this process,
17:25
the job posting wasn't just kind of like thrown on somebody's
17:29
desk without context
17:30
SPEAKER_00: saying like,
17:31
SPEAKER_00: Hey,
17:31
SPEAKER_00: I need a marketing coordinator,
17:33
SPEAKER_00: write me a job post.
17:34
Like I think there was input from someone who knows what the F
17:37
they're doing,
17:39
SPEAKER_00: which I think is kind of a good sign.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: That's such a good observation.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: You're right.
17:42
SPEAKER_02: This reads to me as someone who actually like has
17:45
has insight into it um i have one more thing to say too i
17:49
wrongly attributed the
17:50
song opp to bobby brown um but it's naughty by nature apologies
17:56
you're like didn't
17:58
want to say it didn't want to call her out call me out man i
18:01
got it wrong it's a
18:04
naughty by nature yeah we're just going to confiscate your cool
18:08
person card i mean
18:09
SPEAKER_02: person from 20 years ago but whatever it matters it matters to me
18:16
SPEAKER_00: All right, let's move on.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: So the next section, this is still job responsibilities.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: It's cross department coordination.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: Bullet points.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: Act as liaison between marketing, sales, production, and logistics.
18:32
Ensure artwork and packaging approvals are properly routed and
18:35
signed off.
18:37
then another one data and reporting responsibilities compile
18:42
monthly quarterly
18:43
reports on sample requests and costs track sample budgets and
18:48
highlight variances
18:49
and then the last bullet point is analyze data to identify
18:54
trends top skews and
18:56
SPEAKER_00: customer needs next section responsibilities again event support
19:03
SPEAKER_00: track sample budgets and highlight variances.
19:07
And the last bullet point in that section is analyze data to
19:10
identify trends,
19:12
SPEAKER_00: top SKUs and customer needs.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: And we'll, we'll break here before continuing on.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: What did you think of it?
19:18
SPEAKER_02: I do like that.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: There's a section that is about cross collaboration.
19:23
I think that's important for people to understand what other
19:25
departments they're
19:26
SPEAKER_02: going to have to be interacting with within their role.
19:29
SPEAKER_02: Words like liaison work well to me in line with the role level.
19:33
um something that stood out was something something ensure sign
19:37
off on um and to me
19:41
that reads as a little bit of like herding cats right like oh
19:44
dang this poor person
19:45
is going to have to ensure people in other departments are
19:48
signing off on things
19:50
that's going to be a challenge so hopefully they are given some
19:55
kind of like i
19:56
SPEAKER_02: don't know authority or some kind of
20:00
SPEAKER_02: ability to chase people down.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: Hopefully these are responsive departments because like that just sucks.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: That's hard.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: That's hard to do.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: Analyzing data.
20:11
SPEAKER_02: Same.
20:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm not too concerned about it.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: If they have proper training, that shouldn't be an issue.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: They can always use good old ChatGPT to help them with that.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: And then the event support too.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, the list is growing.
20:25
SPEAKER_02: It's getting a little bit, it's increasing in complexity.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: This role to me,
20:30
SPEAKER_02: but it's still I don't see any major major issues,
20:34
SPEAKER_02: but really curious what you have to say about it.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Herding cats.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, herding cats is absolutely what comes out of that.
20:44
And this,
20:45
so this company is,
20:46
they're producing packaging for other products.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like,
20:50
SPEAKER_00: it's a consumer products company,
20:52
SPEAKER_00: but through B2B channels,
20:55
SPEAKER_00: like,
20:55
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:55
SPEAKER_00: they're,
20:56
SPEAKER_00: they're making like boxes and packaging for different products.
20:59
things selling it to their customers who then package their
21:02
products in it and
21:03
turning it on to to end consumers so it's a part of that value
21:07
chain in that world
21:13
SPEAKER_00: one little mistake in printing on the packaging or,
21:19
SPEAKER_00: you know,
21:19
something that is just a little bit off the specs are out of
21:23
tolerance for that
21:24
SPEAKER_00: packaging.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: And you, you absolutely just blow your profit margin out of the water.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: Cause if you, if you print a run,
21:32
SPEAKER_00: of a quarter million, um, let's say boxes for something.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: And,
21:36
SPEAKER_00: you know,
21:37
SPEAKER_00: like a logo or an,
21:38
SPEAKER_00: a,
21:38
SPEAKER_00: a company name is misspelled,
21:40
SPEAKER_00: or there's something missing from a compliance standpoint on a word mark.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: You got to redo that.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: And that's money or,
21:46
SPEAKER_00: so what these,
21:47
what these companies that are involved in this tend to do is
21:51
they have these
21:52
SPEAKER_00: multiple eyes,
21:54
SPEAKER_00: um,
21:55
SPEAKER_00: excuse me,
21:55
SPEAKER_00: they have these processes that they call like second eyes,
21:59
SPEAKER_00: third eyes,
21:59
SPEAKER_00: like one-off checks,
22:01
SPEAKER_00: two-off checks,
22:02
SPEAKER_00: whatever.
22:02
So you literally just have different sets of eyes looking at
22:06
samples in your
22:07
SPEAKER_00: production facility and you're like,
22:09
SPEAKER_00: hmm,
22:09
SPEAKER_00: yeah, that looks, yeah, oh, no, no, that's spelled wrong.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: Like, we need to change that.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, give me a marker, let's mark it up.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: It absolutely works like that.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: And these organizations,
22:20
they always need one person to run around and collect input
22:26
from the different sets
22:27
SPEAKER_00: of eyes.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: So it happens like that.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: And it's an institutionalized thing.
22:32
The fact that you kind of picked up on that is really
22:34
interesting to me because
22:35
SPEAKER_00: herding cats is 100% the way you describe that.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: A couple of things on what you just said.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: So,
22:42
SPEAKER_02: so when we talked about acronyms and you did mention B2B,
22:45
SPEAKER_02: which I'm sure everybody listening knows what that means,
22:48
SPEAKER_02: but for clarity,
22:49
SPEAKER_02: B2B,
22:50
SPEAKER_02: you're referring to business to business,
22:51
SPEAKER_02: right?
22:52
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: And then the other thing that I was going to mention was,
22:56
SPEAKER_02: does this job description,
22:59
SPEAKER_02: job posting still read to you as a
23:02
SPEAKER_02: Stephanie Falkers,
23:02
SPEAKER_02: Marketing it still reads me as coordinator,
23:05
but does it still reach you as marketing or how we started to
23:08
like creep a little
23:09
bit just curious I can't I can't answer that I think I think
23:13
it's still on track
23:13
SPEAKER_02: but curious to hear what you think about that.
23:16
this is a marketing coordinator job,
23:19
but it is a marketing and coordinator job.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: It's very,
23:26
SPEAKER_00: it's very,
23:27
SPEAKER_00: and I was kind of starting to think that too,
23:29
SPEAKER_00: like there's a lot more happening here that goes beyond marketing.
23:34
And that's not necessarily a bad thing,
23:36
especially if this is an entry level role.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: Like if you think about someone who is just at a college or university,
23:44
SPEAKER_00: This is like their first job, maybe their second job.
23:47
And they would really benefit from exposure to a wide range of
23:53
activities inside an
23:54
SPEAKER_00: organization.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: It's great having that kind of creep,
23:58
especially if their personality lines up with it and they're
24:01
excited to do
24:03
something different with their day or they've got a little
24:05
professional ADD where
24:06
SPEAKER_00: they don't want to be doing the same thing all the time.
24:08
you know it totally works but you're right this is far beyond
24:13
like a marketing
24:13
coordinator role as we might think about it for a more mature
24:16
organization i love
24:18
the way you describe that it's a marketing and coordinator i i
24:21
totally agree yeah
24:23
yeah so let's move on to the next section um this section is
24:30
soft skills so we're
24:31
SPEAKER_00: out of the job responsibilities we're into soft skills
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Bullet points,
24:36
SPEAKER_00: creativity and initiative brings fresh ideas for marketing initiatives
24:40
presentations and event execution semicolon takes proactive
24:44
ownership of projects
24:46
SPEAKER_00: and seeks opportunities to add value.
24:49
Next bullet point marketing mindset understands branding
24:52
customer engagement and
24:54
the importance of aligning all materials and presentations with
24:57
company standards.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: Next bullet point communication.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: communicates clearly and persuasively in both written and oral form,
25:05
SPEAKER_00: semicolon,
25:06
SPEAKER_00: adapts messaging to suit customers,
25:08
SPEAKER_00: brokers,
25:09
SPEAKER_00: and internal teams.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: Next bullet point.
25:12
Attention to detail slash quality control ensures accuracy and
25:17
consistency in
25:18
SPEAKER_00: samples,
25:18
SPEAKER_00: presentations,
25:19
SPEAKER_00: and marketing collateral.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: Next bullet point.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: Adaptability.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: Adjusts quickly to shifting priorities,
25:26
SPEAKER_00: deadlines,
25:26
SPEAKER_00: and unexpected challenges,
25:28
SPEAKER_00: semicolon,
25:29
SPEAKER_00: thrives in a dynamic environment.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Next bullet point.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: Interpersonal skills.
25:34
Builds positive relationships with team members,
25:36
brokers,
25:37
and customers,
25:37
semicolon.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Maintains professionalism and demonstrates openness to learning.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: Next bullet point.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: Planning an organization,
25:46
SPEAKER_00: prioritizes tasks effectively,
25:48
SPEAKER_00: manages multiple projects simultaneously,
25:50
SPEAKER_00: and maintains an organized workflow in a fast-paced environment.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: Next bullet point,
25:56
SPEAKER_00: problem solving,
25:57
SPEAKER_00: identifies issues quickly,
25:59
SPEAKER_00: proposes solutions,
26:00
SPEAKER_00: and escalates when necessary.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: Next bullet point, dependability.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Dependability.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: Reliable in attendance and execution,
26:10
SPEAKER_00: semicolon,
26:11
SPEAKER_00: follows through on commitments,
26:13
SPEAKER_00: responds to feedback,
26:14
SPEAKER_00: and supports team and company goals.
26:18
uh that is this that is the section what did you think of that
26:21
okay so what i liked
26:23
SPEAKER_02: was it felt as though those saw skills were a good reflection of the
26:27
responsibilities like they they they interconnect they're not
26:31
disconnected
26:31
disjointed you're not looking at it like what does this have to
26:34
do with the role so
26:36
i liked that about it um it felt long and a bit a bit
26:41
unnecessary as a result
26:43
SPEAKER_02: because
26:45
SPEAKER_02: The responsibilities are pretty detailed.
26:48
A couple of the red flags for me were adjust quickly to
26:53
shifting priorities,
26:55
SPEAKER_02: which again,
26:56
SPEAKER_02: better to be honest about it,
26:57
SPEAKER_02: but they're telling you something,
26:59
SPEAKER_02: right?
26:59
SPEAKER_02: If that's a requirement for your soft skills, it means it's happening.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: So just be prepared to be told one day,
27:09
one hour that you're doing something and then the next to do
27:12
something else.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: I found a lot of times with more junior employees,
27:18
SPEAKER_02: in my experience,
27:19
SPEAKER_02: when you're shifting parties,
27:20
when they spend a lot of time and effort on something only to
27:23
be told we're going a
27:24
SPEAKER_02: different direction,
27:25
SPEAKER_02: it's really demotivating.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: If you're new, that's hard.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: And it might mean that the next time you're asked to do something,
27:32
SPEAKER_02: you don't put as much of yourself into it.
27:34
As you get older and more experienced,
27:36
you get used to it and you're like,
27:37
yeah,
27:37
whatever.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: We just completely changed our entire product.
27:41
I can I can adjust,
27:42
but when you're more junior earlier in your career,
27:45
that's tough.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: So that that does require some kind of resilience.
27:49
Thrives in dynamic environment is another way of saying what I
27:54
just said,
27:54
right?
27:55
Like dynamic environment things means that things are going to
27:58
be changing a lot.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: Fast paced environment was used as well.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: So those are all to me just just warning,
28:04
SPEAKER_02: not red flags,
28:05
but just warning signs like read something into it because they
28:08
are telling you.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: that things are going to shift quickly for you,
28:12
SPEAKER_02: that it is fast paced,
28:13
SPEAKER_02: that it is a dynamic environment.
28:15
SPEAKER_02: And so prepare yourself for that.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: Be like mentally and emotionally prepared.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: Don't take it personally.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: Don't stop trying.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: But again, speaking to more junior people,
28:27
it can be demotivating don't let it be it happens it's going to
28:31
continue happening
28:33
and the the more you can like roll with the punches the better
28:37
it's going to serve
28:38
you in the long run in the future so that's kind of those are
28:40
my thoughts my long
28:42
rambling thoughts about that section my thoughts were just as
28:45
long as that freaking
28:46
SPEAKER_02: section was so there you go
28:51
SPEAKER_00: It was long.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: It was long.
28:53
And I,
28:55
I haven't seen many job postings that a like list off soft
29:01
skills that they want.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: And B go into this much detail.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: And if you, if you had asked me about this,
29:12
10 years ago,
29:12
I would have looked at it and said,
29:15
why is that even there?
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Like this,
29:16
SPEAKER_00: this is all stuff that every person,
29:20
SPEAKER_00: like every person coming into the workforce should have these skills.
29:24
But there are two kinds of things that stick in my brain now
29:27
when like asked that
29:28
SPEAKER_00: kind of question.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: One, it's not as common.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: education has changed, like COVID changed a lot of things for folks.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: So people who are coming into the workforce now, they're different.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: And that's not to say worse, it just means different.
29:43
They don't have some of the background learning and some of the
29:49
context of the
29:50
workplace that previous generations or people who are slightly
29:54
older would have.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: So it's not awful that the soft skills are listed off, but
29:59
SPEAKER_00: I think that this is mispositioned a bit.
30:02
The value here in this section and this level of detail isn't
30:07
in saying we need
30:08
SPEAKER_00: these soft skills from you.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: So if you're not this person, don't bother.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: Because let's face it,
30:13
SPEAKER_00: how are you going to test for these as an employer,
30:16
SPEAKER_00: especially in the interview?
30:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, how are you going to test for adaptability?
30:21
How are you going to test someone's ability to shift quickly
30:24
from changing priority
30:25
SPEAKER_00: to changing priority?
30:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, come on.
30:27
So this would have been better positioned as,
30:29
hey,
30:30
this is what your job's going to look like.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: This is the environment.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: This is kind of a description of what things will be like.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: Do you dig it?
30:37
And if you don't have it like that,
30:38
you would find some people who are like,
30:40
yeah,
30:41
I dig this.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: This is cool.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: Well, you're, you're absolutely right.
30:45
It is more about them telling you,
30:47
this is the environment that you're going to be working in.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: This is the system in which we operate.
30:52
SPEAKER_02: Are you in or out?
30:53
SPEAKER_02: I absolutely agree.
30:54
SPEAKER_02: Instead of positioning it as like what you need to have,
30:57
SPEAKER_02: it's more like,
30:58
SPEAKER_02: this is,
30:59
SPEAKER_02: this is,
31:00
SPEAKER_02: yeah,
31:00
SPEAKER_02: this is our environment.
31:01
SPEAKER_02: Love it.
31:01
i agree i i agree that would be a really good to tweak for the
31:05
the role posting and
31:06
i also think more companies could benefit from that as well uh
31:10
just you know
31:11
talking about their environment yeah that that mindset about
31:14
the org and what it's
31:15
like to work in there um that's missing from so much of the
31:19
like job posting
31:21
recruitment world like you know it's it's like you're it's like
31:24
you're going
31:24
SPEAKER_00: fishing in a lake at night and your eyes are closed
31:29
you don't know what's going on yeah absolutely and yet you need
31:32
to catch something
31:33
like yes and it's dangerous and don't do that yes yeah people
31:37
at home who have
31:38
boats and fishing rods and um a six-pack on the dock like don't
31:42
go out after dark
31:42
SPEAKER_02: that ain't cool no no stay safe stay safe
31:46
SPEAKER_00: One other thing about this section that came to mind for me,
31:49
SPEAKER_00: and you kind of called it too,
31:51
SPEAKER_00: is like the shifting priorities.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: So I read this one,
31:56
SPEAKER_00: adjust quickly to shifting priorities,
31:57
SPEAKER_00: deadlines,
31:58
SPEAKER_00: and unexpected challenges,
31:59
SPEAKER_00: thrives in a dynamic environment.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, cool, fair.
32:03
I read that as the director of sales is going to come and tap
32:07
on your shoulder at 10 a.m.
32:08
with a little project that they need you to do that nobody told
32:12
you about.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: And,
32:13
SPEAKER_00: oh,
32:14
SPEAKER_00: at 1235,
32:16
SPEAKER_00: the assistant to the CEO is going to come in and say,
32:18
SPEAKER_00: hey,
32:18
SPEAKER_00: where's that presentation that the boss needs?
32:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you didn't get that email?
32:22
SPEAKER_00: Did you check your junk mail?
32:24
SPEAKER_00: We need that at 2 p.m.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: I read this as that.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: And that's going to be a little bit stressful.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: So if you see a line like this,
32:33
SPEAKER_00: you know,
32:34
SPEAKER_00: be prepared to get real people who are looking for jobs.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: I think you're right.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: I think it's really about what does that mean?
32:41
SPEAKER_02: Like, what is that code for?
32:43
SPEAKER_02: Or what is an example of this inaction?
32:45
I think that that's really,
32:47
really helpful for people to try to just think on that.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: Let that marinate a little bit because they're listing it.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: It's important.
32:55
SPEAKER_02: What does that mean in practice?
32:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: And even even if you don't think that they think it's important,
33:00
the fact that they're listing it means that it happens a lot or
33:04
not that they want
33:05
SPEAKER_00: you to be aware of it.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: So like put that away in your brain when you're reading stuff like that.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely agree.
33:11
SPEAKER_02: If it's listed, it's listed for a reason.
33:14
And I do think like what you said about it's a reflection more
33:18
of the environment,
33:19
SPEAKER_02: the working environment.
33:21
It also shows great self-awareness for an organization to list
33:26
those things.
33:27
SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
33:28
SPEAKER_02: But like you said, I think the heading is incorrect.
33:32
SPEAKER_02: I think that needs a bit of an edit.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: Let's move on.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: Next section, education and experience.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: So this is bullet points again.
33:44
Degree or diploma in marketing communications or a related
33:48
field or equivalent experience.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Minimum one to two years of experience in marketing coordination,
33:54
SPEAKER_00: sales support,
33:54
SPEAKER_00: or a related role.
33:56
Strong proficiency in the Microsoft Office Suite,
34:00
Word,
34:00
PowerPoint,
34:01
Excel.
34:03
experience with design software eg canva or adobe illustrator
34:07
is an asset solid
34:09
understanding of marketing fundamentals and sales support
34:12
functions strong
34:14
organizational and time management skills to handle competing
34:17
deadlines must be
34:19
able to read write and communicate effectively in english must
34:23
have reliable
34:24
SPEAKER_00: transportation
34:26
Ability to stand,
34:27
walk,
34:28
and move samples or materials during events slash trade shows.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: Able to lift up to 10 pounds.
34:35
And then there's a little kind of rider section that says
34:37
working conditions.
34:39
Must be comfortable walking or standing for extended periods
34:42
during sample prep,
34:44
SPEAKER_00: trade shows,
34:45
SPEAKER_00: or customer events.
34:46
Occasional travel may be required for trade shows,
34:50
events,
34:51
or customer meetings.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: What'd you think about that?
34:55
SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
34:56
SPEAKER_02: I love equivalent experience listed.
34:58
I think that that's super important in this day and age,
35:00
like to always go for that.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: One to two years of experience to me is in line with,
35:08
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
35:09
SPEAKER_02: I would go as far as to say,
35:10
SPEAKER_02: I know that they need a certain level of experience,
35:13
SPEAKER_02: but like one to two years as a coordinator,
35:18
I would imagine you would be ready for the next role,
35:22
the progression of your role.
35:24
SPEAKER_02: So like zero to two years for me.
35:26
SPEAKER_02: I know it's such a tiny little thing,
35:29
SPEAKER_02: but then you're saying,
35:29
SPEAKER_02: but Jen,
35:30
SPEAKER_02: like if they have zero years of experience,
35:32
SPEAKER_02: they have zero years of experience.
35:33
SPEAKER_02: I totally get that.
35:35
SPEAKER_02: But again, this is a coordinator role.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: So they graduated and then they did two years.
35:42
a marketing coordinator somewhere else and then they're coming
35:45
to you as a
35:45
marketing coordinator as well like i don't know i feel like
35:47
there's there's got to
35:48
be a little bit of leeway this is not rocket science they can
35:54
learn how to do this
35:55
job on the job uh so i think you got to give people just a
36:00
little bit of space
36:01
there uh for being like net new to to what they're doing
36:05
especially if they do have
36:06
SPEAKER_02: a degree they it's time for them now to put
36:10
theory into practice and that's okay so um yeah i you were
36:15
right about the software
36:16
like they're they're using they're listing that as like the
36:19
software the tech stack
36:20
or whatever that they're using they mentioned time management
36:23
here but to me like
36:24
they already talked about that a little bit ish in the soft
36:27
skills like we already
36:29
know that they're going to require that it's kind of it's it's
36:32
a given um and yeah
36:36
SPEAKER_02: everything else like
36:38
SPEAKER_02: I guess it makes sense for the role.
36:40
SPEAKER_02: They're going to go to trade shows.
36:42
SPEAKER_02: They're going to have to like drive or have transportation.
36:44
SPEAKER_02: If it's a company where all of their products are,
36:49
SPEAKER_02: you know,
36:49
SPEAKER_02: in English,
36:50
SPEAKER_02: they're going to have to be able to write and read.
36:52
They're not saying that you have to be,
36:54
again,
36:54
like anything super brilliant with it.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: You just have to be able to do it.
37:00
yeah so that to me not nothing crazy i can't fault them too
37:05
much in that except to
37:07
say that the years of experience i would i would just be a
37:10
little bit more lenient
37:11
SPEAKER_02: with what about you
37:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I thought similarly with this.
37:16
You're right that this is very much a job that anyone can kind
37:21
of learn on the go.
37:22
So I probably wouldn't have said one to two years experience as
37:27
a marketing
37:28
SPEAKER_00: coordinator is necessary.
37:30
I think that I probably would have said it will be considered
37:34
an asset if you have
37:35
one to two years experience in a manufacturing environment or
37:39
in a production
37:40
SPEAKER_00: environment.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
37:42
because because this is like this is clearly an organization
37:45
that that is like it's
37:46
SPEAKER_00: it's a production organization that produce physical things.
37:49
And the one thing that stuck out to me in that was the
37:54
statement about you must be
37:56
SPEAKER_00: able to stand,
37:58
SPEAKER_00: walk,
37:58
SPEAKER_00: move,
37:58
SPEAKER_00: sample materials and lift up to 10 pounds.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: To me, that says this is an ISO organization.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: They have very kind of strict health and safety compliance practices.
38:10
They probably have like a dedicated health and safety team with
38:14
like a rotating chair.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: Like it's all very formalized, very institutionalized.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: And again, manufacturing environment, right?
38:21
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: So they kind of call that out.
38:23
That tells you a little bit about the environment that you'll
38:25
be working in.
38:27
It's likely going to be very structured,
38:30
at least in the production space.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not in sales and marketing.
38:34
SPEAKER_00: Sales and marketing people, they can be different.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: But this will be a structured environment.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: And there will be a lot of like, you know, at 1245, we're doing this.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: At 105, we're doing this.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: At 123 and a half, we're doing that.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: That's just how manufacturing orgs are.
38:53
um so i i thought it was pretty good except for you know that
38:56
little thing like who
38:57
cares if they have two years experience as a marketing
38:59
coordinator exactly i i
39:01
agree because like i said they should be looking at progression
39:04
at that point you
39:05
also said something really interesting too you're like
39:07
marketing and sales people
39:08
are different marketing and sales people are different from
39:10
each other too and this
39:12
person is going to have to learn how to collaborate with sales
39:17
people as we as we
39:20
SPEAKER_02: learn in the job posting
39:21
um it's a different culture it's its own little monoculture so
39:27
that's an important
39:27
thing as well is to kind of understand what that means
39:31
understand what it means to
39:32
SPEAKER_02: collaborate and work with sales people sales people are very very
39:37
SPEAKER_02: It's a certain type of disposition required to be a salesperson.
39:41
SPEAKER_02: So that's an interesting thing as well.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, no, I totally agree.
39:45
And I one of the questions I was going to ask you is because we
39:48
know that this is a
39:50
SPEAKER_02: in office position five days a week in office required.
39:54
And after reading through that,
39:55
do you think that it needs to be an in-person role?
39:59
um my yeah my answer is yes because sometimes it's not
40:03
sometimes you're like why is
40:04
this an in-person role that's so so not cool but for this one
40:08
to me it reads as an
40:10
in-person role absolutely yeah 100 100 what's going to happen
40:14
with this job the
40:15
person who uh who gets this job um they're going to spend their
40:19
day kind of like
40:20
running around between the offices which are you know above the
40:24
manufacturing
40:25
SPEAKER_00: facility or something like a lot of organizations excuse me that um
40:29
that have a physical plant and capital assets they just have
40:33
office space carved
40:34
out you know above like the floor or maybe in a separate
40:37
building if it's a larger
40:38
SPEAKER_00: campus this person is going to be running back and forth between like the
40:42
production lines to talk to like a line operator or like a
40:45
director of ops or like
40:46
a production manager and be like hey why is this like that
40:49
somebody over in sales
40:51
needs to know and then they'll like run their butt back to the
40:53
office and be like
40:54
SPEAKER_00: well,
40:55
SPEAKER_00: Jimmy said this about that and it's this way because of that,
40:58
SPEAKER_00: like that's going to happen for sure.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: Like this is a marketing and coordinator,
41:02
SPEAKER_00: which,
41:03
SPEAKER_00: you know,
41:04
I think that they probably should have put in here somewhere
41:06
like they're not going
41:07
SPEAKER_00: to.
41:08
And I can tell that the person who wrote this,
41:10
this post is not like a person with a
41:13
public sense of humor um they could have they could have put in
41:16
this post somewhere
41:18
you will be the official gopher for you know units absolutely
41:23
and we will buy you a
41:25
whatever fitbit to track your steps because you're going to
41:29
you're going to hit all
41:30
your goals you're going to close all your rings in this job i
41:34
agree i agree it does
41:35
SPEAKER_02: read a little bit gopher um but i do i do appreciate the um
41:41
SPEAKER_02: I do appreciate the job posting.
41:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: And if it were me,
41:45
SPEAKER_00: I would put the Fitbit thing in the benefits section under benefits,
41:49
SPEAKER_00: health care,
41:49
SPEAKER_00: mental vision,
41:50
SPEAKER_00: Fitbit,
41:51
SPEAKER_00: because y'all are going to get your steps in.
41:52
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
41:53
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
41:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:55
SPEAKER_00: So that's the end of the job post.
41:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about money.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: Put on your HR salary band kind of hat.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: What do you think this job is worth knowing that it is,
42:09
SPEAKER_00: you know,
42:10
SPEAKER_00: Canada,
42:10
SPEAKER_00: it's in office and it's in a small community that's still in Peel region,
42:14
SPEAKER_00: but ain't downtown Toronto.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
42:18
SPEAKER_02: I, my guess for the range is somewhere between 55 to 70,000.
42:23
SPEAKER_02: That's my best guess.
42:25
SPEAKER_02: What about you?
42:28
SPEAKER_00: You were close.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: You were close.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: So the range that they posted was 50 to 55 a year, CAD, of course.
42:36
SPEAKER_00: That's the range that they posted.
42:38
SPEAKER_02: 50 to 55.
42:39
SPEAKER_02: That's the range?
42:41
SPEAKER_00: That's the range.
42:42
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: That's the range.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: That's a teeny tiny little range.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: That is a, it's a little bit low from your perspective.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: Why do you think it's a little bit low?
42:55
SPEAKER_02: For the reasons that you said,
42:56
SPEAKER_02: it's entry level,
42:57
SPEAKER_02: it's smaller town,
42:59
SPEAKER_02: the type of industry as well.
43:01
I also think companies can post lower ranges like that when
43:05
they think that they
43:06
SPEAKER_02: will get a lot of applicants.
43:09
SPEAKER_02: And anytime it's like a more entry level role,
43:12
SPEAKER_02: you are going to see a lot more applicants because like we talked about,
43:16
SPEAKER_02: kind of anyone can do this role.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: So they don't have to pay a whole lot for it.
43:22
SPEAKER_02: Why I said 70 was because it's going to be a challenging role.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: This is going to be physically and mentally exhausting.
43:31
SPEAKER_02: And I don't think that
43:34
you know anyone should be paid 50,000 50 55 is interesting to
43:38
me because everyone's
43:39
going to want 55 but the company is likely going to like try to
43:42
start them at 50 so
43:43
why not just put the salary for this role is $50,000 but that
43:47
yeah that's my
43:49
SPEAKER_02: thought on
43:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's certainly with a range that narrow.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't really suggest a lot of opportunity for negotiation, right?
43:58
SPEAKER_00: Like you don't have a lot of room to come in and say,
44:01
SPEAKER_00: well,
44:02
SPEAKER_00: hey,
44:02
SPEAKER_00: you know,
44:03
SPEAKER_00: I've done A,
44:03
B or C value added thing and it's going to improve your
44:07
organization through this.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: How about at 65?
44:09
SPEAKER_00: Like maybe behind closed doors informally that'll happen.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: But how many candidates would look at that and be like, hmm,
44:18
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not.
44:20
SPEAKER_02: This is it.
44:20
SPEAKER_02: Is it turning candidates off?
44:22
SPEAKER_02: And though,
44:23
SPEAKER_02: kudos to them,
44:24
SPEAKER_02: because in Ontario,
44:24
SPEAKER_02: I believe it's not required to post a salary range yet.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: So at least, at least they're doing that.
44:33
SPEAKER_02: At least people can see what it is.
44:36
one thing too about salary posting salaries is that you can
44:38
also get an idea of
44:39
what your trajectory could look like at that organization um
44:43
meaning to me that if
44:44
you are like a manager or more senior level position within
44:49
that department i i
44:52
don't know doesn't sound promising financially uh but you know
44:58
i don't want to like
45:00
SPEAKER_02: trash them too hard but that's just that's not that's not a lot of money
45:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I have a contrarian opinion on this.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: I actually think the range is pretty good.
45:12
SPEAKER_00: And the reason why is that this is a small town,
45:16
SPEAKER_00: like Aurora,
45:17
SPEAKER_00: small place,
45:18
SPEAKER_00: small place,
45:19
but it's still kind of close enough to appeal in the GTA that
45:24
you're not out in the
45:25
SPEAKER_00: middle of nowhere.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: But housing is a little bit less expensive that far outside of the city.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: So your cost of living is going to be a little bit lower.
45:35
SPEAKER_00: And if I think about, you know, for me, it was quite a long time ago.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: But if I had just come out of university,
45:42
SPEAKER_00: you know,
45:43
SPEAKER_00: this is kind of my first job or maybe my second job.
45:47
SPEAKER_00: And I've got, I don't know, a couple of roommates.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm just kind of living life.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm having a good time.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: Am I going to be okay with 50 or 55 to start with?
45:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, that's okay.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, I wouldn't be there forever.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: I would be looking at this as,
46:01
SPEAKER_00: you know,
46:01
SPEAKER_00: this is like a starting point,
46:03
SPEAKER_00: I'll get some experience,
46:04
SPEAKER_00: maybe I'll get promoted.
46:05
And I'll keep on kind of like networking resident doing like
46:09
that whole thing,
46:10
SPEAKER_00: and just learn something about the manufacturing industry,
46:14
SPEAKER_00: and kind of carry on call it a day.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: But to start with, yeah, that was my 20s.
46:19
sign me up i'd do it i think that's fair i think that's fair i
46:22
don't know ontario
46:24
i'm in for listeners i'm in bc i'm on vancouver island so a
46:28
little bit different
46:29
but i also think that like if if you're gonna pay me fifty
46:32
thousand dollars to be
46:33
like a gopher i have a limited bandwidth to do this i have a
46:39
limited time span if
46:41
SPEAKER_02: you're gonna pay me seventy thousand dollars to be a gopher
46:44
SPEAKER_02: Bob's your uncle.
46:44
SPEAKER_02: I'll do that for a lot longer than I will for $50,000.
46:47
SPEAKER_02: So that's also a little bit of my perspective.
46:50
SPEAKER_02: But you raised a good point.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: So would you apply for this role?
46:56
SPEAKER_00: If I was in my 20s, I probably would.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: I probably would.
47:00
SPEAKER_00: I've always really enjoyed jobs that get you out from behind your desk.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, you go and you talk to people and you run around like,
47:12
And I've always been a little bit fascinated with manufacturing
47:15
environments too.
47:16
SPEAKER_00: So for me,
47:17
like I would probably spend a lot of time hanging out in the
47:20
production line
47:22
instead of like in my office or at my cubicle or whatever with
47:26
the sales and
47:26
SPEAKER_00: marketing people.
47:27
Like I'd probably be hanging out with the people who are
47:29
operating like the presses.
47:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:33
SPEAKER_02: Good experience for sure.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: So that's,
47:36
SPEAKER_00: you know,
47:36
SPEAKER_00: the job posting its entirety,
47:39
SPEAKER_00: thinking about the whole thing,
47:40
SPEAKER_00: kind of nuts to bolts.
47:41
SPEAKER_00: What would you give this?
47:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, what's your score out of 10 for this posting?
47:46
SPEAKER_02: I liked this job posting.
47:48
SPEAKER_02: I think it was honest.
47:50
I think that a couple little tweaks here and there would make
47:55
it even better.
47:56
I think,
47:56
like you mentioned,
47:57
it was clearly written by someone who understands the
47:59
the nature of the role um I would probably give it I'm trying
48:06
to think of what was
48:06
missing as well like it didn't it didn't talk about
48:09
accommodations for the
48:10
SPEAKER_02: interview which I think are important because um
48:16
you just you just have to be I understand that it's a physical
48:18
job it mentions that
48:20
but that doesn't mean that there aren't people who could still
48:24
do it and maybe have
48:26
invisible things that might restrict them from being able to
48:30
just participate in
48:31
the to the interview fully so I would have liked to have seen
48:35
something that talks
48:35
about how to accommodate you in the interview process at the
48:38
very least but
48:42
i would say i would give it i'm usually more generous so i
48:45
would probably give it
48:46
like a seven seven point five maybe i liked it what about you i
48:56
i'm in about the
48:57
SPEAKER_00: same ballpark with an asterisk
49:04
So I would,
49:05
the job posting as it's written,
49:07
it's,
49:08
you know,
49:08
it's,
49:08
it's pretty clear.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty succinct.
49:10
SPEAKER_00: There's not a, there's not a lot of fluffy stuff.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: That's irrelevant.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: Like there is a little bit in that soft skills section.
49:18
That was kind of,
49:20
we talked about that,
49:21
like that,
49:21
that could have been different to be better.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: So it was to the point that was good.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: But there are, there are some missed opportunities here.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: There was nothing in this job posting about,
49:33
SPEAKER_00: um,
49:34
SPEAKER_00: uh,
49:35
SPEAKER_00: really like organizational or employer branding.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: Like there,
49:38
there was nothing convincing me to join this organization
49:41
because the organization
49:43
SPEAKER_00: is doing like really interesting things.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: There's nothing about the culture there.
49:48
SPEAKER_02: There's nothing.
49:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:51
SPEAKER_00: That's, that's missing.
49:52
SPEAKER_00: And that's a missed opportunity for some people.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it doesn't matter.
49:56
But I've always felt that you will have a much better shot at
49:59
attracting the best
50:01
of the best if you can at least describe purpose in a way that
50:06
gets people who kind
50:07
SPEAKER_00: of share your values,
50:08
SPEAKER_00: people that you want to be there excited.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: So that was completely non existent.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: That was for me, like huge missed opportunity.
50:16
SPEAKER_00: Another thing that was a little bit off for me about this post was...
50:27
the the missing sense of the organizational structure so i i
50:34
really like it and
50:35
it's such a small detail but i really like it when in job posts
50:39
um they have that
50:40
line that's like you'll be reporting to the manager of x or the
50:44
director of y that
50:46
gives you a sense of where your place in the org is and who
50:50
your mentors can be
50:52
right because mentorship especially for an entry-level job for
50:55
someone who's young
50:56
just getting into the labor market it's pretty important it's a
50:59
pretty big deal so
51:00
like not kind of calling that out and really describing at
51:04
least passively what
51:05
SPEAKER_00: those opportunities are
51:08
SPEAKER_00: Kind of a miss for me.
51:09
SPEAKER_00: Overall, I would give this one a six out of 10.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: And the asterisk is if they'd included those two things,
51:15
SPEAKER_00: it would have been like an eight,
51:17
SPEAKER_00: maybe an 8.5,
51:18
SPEAKER_00: maybe a nine.
51:19
SPEAKER_00: Like it was, it was pretty solid other than just those missing things.
51:24
SPEAKER_02: This is interesting point.
51:26
SPEAKER_02: I think you're making me bring mine down a little bit now,
51:28
SPEAKER_02: if I'm even allowed to do that,
51:30
SPEAKER_02: because you mentioned something very interesting.
51:33
It doesn't identify who they report into,
51:35
which to me,
51:36
there's no reason not to include that.
51:38
SPEAKER_02: I think it should always be included.
51:41
And when they don't,
51:42
it could indicate that they don't know yet,
51:44
which is not great.
51:46
SPEAKER_02: I've been in that situation.
51:48
hired on and it's kind of changing as you're walking through
51:51
the door and that's not great.
51:52
SPEAKER_02: It could be, it could not be that.
51:53
They could very well know who it is,
51:55
but if they do,
51:55
they should put that.
51:56
Because I think for all the reasons that you named,
51:59
it's really important.
52:00
SPEAKER_02: The part about,
52:01
SPEAKER_02: you know,
52:02
not mentioning anything about like the purpose or anything else
52:04
about the company,
52:05
SPEAKER_02: to me,
52:07
SPEAKER_02: that is very telling.
52:09
SPEAKER_02: They're telling you that their culture is bland.
52:12
SPEAKER_02: Like the job is what it is.
52:15
SPEAKER_02: It reads as bland.
52:17
The fact that this is a marketing position and they're not
52:20
marketing the company
52:22
SPEAKER_02: selling it to you in any way,
52:24
SPEAKER_02: shape or form is like.
52:27
SPEAKER_02: What?
52:28
SPEAKER_02: Like you said, missed opportunity.
52:31
So it shows to me as well that they're not going to have a lot
52:35
of opportunity for
52:36
SPEAKER_02: creativity to have,
52:38
SPEAKER_02: like you mentioned,
52:39
SPEAKER_02: like it's going to be corporate.
52:41
SPEAKER_02: It's going to be bland.
52:43
SPEAKER_02: It is going to be pretty much what you're reading on the paper.
52:47
And so,
52:47
so know that,
52:48
like we said,
52:49
every job posting is telling you a story.
52:52
So you've got to,
52:53
you've got to read the full story and in between the lines as
52:56
well.
52:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
52:58
SPEAKER_02: So I guess I would adjust mine to like,
53:02
SPEAKER_02: I would actually go a full point down from like a 7.5 ish to a 6.5.
53:08
And this is why it's really important to have these different
53:10
perspectives to work
53:11
SPEAKER_02: together when you're building these job descriptions,
53:15
SPEAKER_02: job postings,
53:15
SPEAKER_02: because they're always gaps,
53:17
SPEAKER_02: they're always blind spots.
53:18
So you gotta like tease that out a little bit for a really
53:21
great job posting.
53:24
Thanks for joining us for this episode of Roast the Post,
53:27
the story behind the bullet points.
53:29
SPEAKER_02: If you got something out of today's breakdown,
53:31
SPEAKER_02: whether it helped you decode a job posting,
53:34
rethink how you write one or just confirm that you're not
53:37
imagining the chaos out
53:38
SPEAKER_02: there,
53:38
make sure you mash that subscribe button and share this with
53:42
your friends.
53:43
SPEAKER_02: And if you've got a job posting you want us to roast,
53:46
SPEAKER_02: the good,
53:46
SPEAKER_02: the bad,
53:46
SPEAKER_02: or the please help us understand what this even is,
53:49
SPEAKER_02: send it our way.
53:50
SPEAKER_02: We love listener submissions.
53:52
SPEAKER_02: Hit up the link in the show notes for more.
53:54
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for hanging out with us.
53:56
SPEAKER_02: See you next time.