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Mini: Magestic Manatees · Why We Do What We Do

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to Why we do what we do Mini. I'm
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  Speaker 2: your host Abraham and I'm your oh Shane. We are
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  Speaker 2: a psychology podcast. We talk about the things that humans
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  Speaker 2: and especially today what non humans do, and we bring
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  Speaker 2: some science of psychology to that discussion.
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  Speaker 3: That's what we do.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we do.
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  Speaker 4: So today we are talking about the majestic creature that
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  Speaker 4: is known as the mermaid, I mean manatee.
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  Speaker 3: Yes indeed.
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  Speaker 2: And if you are joining us for the first time,
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  Speaker 2: we hope that you enjoy what you hear in this
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  Speaker 2: discussion today. And if you're a returning person, then welcome back.
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  Speaker 2: I hope all that you also enjoy what you hear
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  Speaker 2: in this discussion today. Another way, if you would like
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  Speaker 2: to support us, you can join us on Patreon, leave
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  Speaker 2: us a rating and review, like and subscribe and tell
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  Speaker 2: a friend and I'll talk more about those things at
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  Speaker 2: the end of this discussion. But these are minis. They
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  Speaker 2: are brief, little episodes we record and then we publish
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  Speaker 2: on Monday's. It's just a little thing that you can
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  Speaker 2: get in there on your Monday and then go about
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  Speaker 2: your day. And that's what we do.
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  Speaker 3: On our minis.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's good time. So I hope, we hope you
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  Speaker 4: like this one. This one I think is going to
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  Speaker 4: be a lot of fun.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't do a ton of creature oriented features,
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  Speaker 2: but we discussed manatees recently and in one of our
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  Speaker 2: recent episodes and expressed our love for them, and so
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  Speaker 2: we decided we may as well just do a mini
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  Speaker 2: about them because they're pretty cool creatures and creatures do behaviors,
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  Speaker 2: and so it's the thing that we.
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  Speaker 3: Could talk about.
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  Speaker 2: Yay, I love it all right, So we are going
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  Speaker 2: to quickly review some of the science of manatee behavior
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  Speaker 2: and biology, some basic understandings about manatees and how they work,
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  Speaker 2: and then we'll also review some of the recent research
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  Speaker 2: into their cognition because people are curious about that sort
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  Speaker 2: of thing. And then that puts us squarely within our
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  Speaker 2: discussion space. Even though there are no rules, that makes
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  Speaker 2: it make more sense to me.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, the rules are arbitrary, but we make
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  Speaker 4: them work.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, In case you haven't seen manates, we will
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  Speaker 2: do our best to describe them very quick and then
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  Speaker 2: just discuss things about them that you'll need to know.
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  Speaker 2: Manates I feel like look kind of similar to seals
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  Speaker 2: and walruses. Sure, possibly if you threw a cow in
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  Speaker 2: the water and it's evolved there made what.
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  Speaker 3: They look like.
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  Speaker 2: They're actually though not that closely related to seals and
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  Speaker 2: walruses as it turns out.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're mostly related to potatoes. They're potatoes with flippers,
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  Speaker 4: and they're just very large and they're adorable.
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  Speaker 3: That's a great way to describe it.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, it's like a big it's like a big
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  Speaker 4: russet potato with paddles. Yeah, Now, they are a they're
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  Speaker 4: very large. They're a brownish grayish corpulent pachyderm with a large, flat,
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  Speaker 4: horizontal paddle style tail, and it looks like a big
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  Speaker 4: like almost like a shovel shape almost where it's like rounded.
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  Speaker 4: It's not like a fluke like a whale singular. And
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  Speaker 4: they can get up to about thirteen feet or about
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  Speaker 4: fourst meters and way up to three thousand pounds.
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  Speaker 3: They are huge, yes, huge potatoes.
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  Speaker 2: They don't have scales like other large aquatic creatures, and
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  Speaker 2: neither do they really have fur. They have this very
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  Speaker 2: very thick skin that has covered with very fine, intermittently
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  Speaker 2: spaced sensory hairs though.
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  Speaker 4: Yes they do, and they have like they have whiskers,
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  Speaker 4: which is adorable. Yeah, they have very small dark eyes
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  Speaker 4: and large basset hound lips and also those hair with
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  Speaker 4: those hairs that, like I said, those whiskers, they look
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  Speaker 4: like if you ever see the face of a sharpai,
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  Speaker 4: they kind of look like that.
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  Speaker 3: They do. Yeah, that's a good that's a good description.
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  Speaker 3: I like it.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: They are herbivores and they spend all day eating plants
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  Speaker 2: in the water. They swim at a leisurely three to
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  Speaker 2: four miles per hour when they're in a Yeah, they're
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  Speaker 2: not particularly fast moving creatures.
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  Speaker 3: They enjoy the day.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, they mosey. Yeah, it's a way to think about it.
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  Speaker 4: They mosey because they don't have any natural predators, Like
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  Speaker 4: they are just kind of their own thing.
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  Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that.
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  Speaker 4: But I've seen them come up on shore where like
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  Speaker 4: they can actually get to like land grass and eat
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  Speaker 4: grass on the shore as well if it's close enough
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  Speaker 4: to where they're at, which is.
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  Speaker 1: Really really cool.
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  Speaker 4: Though they look very fat, they actually don't have any
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  Speaker 4: blubber and they struggle with in colder water. As a
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  Speaker 4: matter of fact, where I live, they migrate to warmer waters,
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  Speaker 4: to springs and stuff like that, and they hang out
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  Speaker 4: where the water is a little bit warmer during that
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  Speaker 4: colder climate time.
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  Speaker 2: So because of this, they're really only sort of set
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  Speaker 2: up to do well in warm waters, and so they
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  Speaker 2: live in warms, slow moving rivers, estuaries, saltwater bays, often
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  Speaker 2: in coastal regions. Geographically, they can be found in the
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  Speaker 2: southeastern United States, primarily in Florida. They can also be
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  Speaker 2: fa on in the Caribbean, Central America, South America, and
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  Speaker 2: Western Africa.
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  Speaker 4: They generally tend to, like I mentioned before, they kind
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  Speaker 4: of populate springs and stuff in Florida. I see them
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  Speaker 4: a lot in those areas where like there are like
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  Speaker 4: kind of like consistent water spaces. They generally stay away
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  Speaker 4: from places where there's ads though, makes sense. Okay, so
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  Speaker 4: we are talking about this the wonderful creature that is
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  Speaker 4: demand te we mentioned earlier their packet terms, their closest
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  Speaker 4: relatives are elephants. Like elephants trunks, they have prehensile lips
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  Speaker 4: and that can move independently of one another, and you
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  Speaker 4: can actually see that when they're eating kelp and seagrass
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  Speaker 4: and stuff like that.
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  Speaker 1: It's really interesting.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, they could like pull it into their mouth basically,
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  Speaker 2: yeah yeah, and they're apparently quite dexterous with it. They've
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  Speaker 2: also described as being similar to giraffe's lips. How they
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  Speaker 2: have prehensilists. Yes, yeah, I can see that, and also
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  Speaker 2: similarly you might have as you might imagine, researchers have
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  Speaker 2: determined and discovered that manate lips are extremely sensitive. Their
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  Speaker 2: lips are as sensitive as our fingertips. And one to
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  Speaker 2: test this, what they did is they trained manates to
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  Speaker 2: choose between plastic plates where they had these sort of
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  Speaker 2: grooves cut out of them in these vertical lines. What
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  Speaker 2: they did is they trained the manates to choose the plate,
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  Speaker 2: so they had two plates present, and they just had
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  Speaker 2: to choose the plate to have the larger spaced out grooves, okay.
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  Speaker 2: And so then they found that the manatees could detect
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  Speaker 2: changes in the grooves as small as point one point
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  Speaker 2: five millimeters, which is a tenth the width of a
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  Speaker 2: grain of sugar.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: And some could even detect as small as point and
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  Speaker 2: zero five millimeters. So they're quite quite small fine distinctions
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  Speaker 2: they can make with their lips as they're sort of
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  Speaker 2: feeling things and also just like a very clever way
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  Speaker 2: to determine like the extent to which something can sense
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  Speaker 2: something like consense changes in something is like just measure
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  Speaker 2: very very small changes in them and see if they
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  Speaker 2: can like consistently behave with respect to that distinction. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: that's also how they determine what colors animals can see,
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  Speaker 2: by the way, Yeah, it is by messing with that
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  Speaker 2: kind of stuff.
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  Speaker 4: Super interesting. This lip sensitivity is actually one of the
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  Speaker 4: reasons why they can be easily injured by fishing equipment
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  Speaker 4: because they use their lips to explore things in their environment,
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  Speaker 4: and they can often get snagged on down fishing equipment
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  Speaker 4: or nets or different types of like litter that might
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  Speaker 4: occur in like populated waterways.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're sort of searching around for food and whatnot,
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  Speaker 2: and if there's a bunch of stuff just around, they
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  Speaker 2: can get snared in. And then you can imagine how
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  Speaker 2: painful it must be with something that sensitive to be
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  Speaker 2: ensnared and down fishing equipment. So another interesting thing here
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  Speaker 2: is the fine hairs that cover their body act as
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  Speaker 2: sort of a passive sonar in the water. They can
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  Speaker 2: detect objects and even take evasive actions as needed. Regardless
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  Speaker 2: of how murky the water is because of the sensitivity
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  Speaker 2: of those hairs, so like they're not actually depending on
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  Speaker 2: site to determine what's around them in the water. They
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  Speaker 2: can feel it like they can just they can sense
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  Speaker 2: how far away and close things are, and so they
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  Speaker 2: have a sense of what their environment is through that
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  Speaker 2: sort of passive sonar, which is really cool.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, super interesting.
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  Speaker 4: Now, despite having a license of phallic brain, all that
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  Speaker 4: means they have a very smooth cortex and one of
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  Speaker 4: the smallest brain the body ratios of a mammal. They
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  Speaker 4: demonstrate many complex behavioral traits.
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  Speaker 2: So they've discovered that these manites can learn several tasks.
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  Speaker 2: They can navigate long, labyrinth like waterways that can wind
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  Speaker 2: for many, many, many miles. They can even navigate great
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  Speaker 2: distances through open water and can navigate seasonally. And all
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  Speaker 2: of this seems to indicate that they have a really
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  Speaker 2: high sensitivity to time and direction, Like they can respond
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  Speaker 2: to these different cues that seem like they shouldn't be
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  Speaker 2: able to if they had low cognition, which might be
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  Speaker 2: implied by their brain size, but they can like remember
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  Speaker 2: after a single trip. They can remember these complex waterways
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  Speaker 2: where I think even most humans would get lost. They
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  Speaker 2: navigate them very well, and they seem to have be
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  Speaker 2: really good at navigations specifically.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, and they return to same locations every year. Like
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  Speaker 4: I mentioned at the top of this, like there's a
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  Speaker 4: place here called Blue Springs that is known for having
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  Speaker 4: manatees come every year, and it's the same like a
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  Speaker 4: lot usually the same group with some new new folks
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  Speaker 4: that come in. Like we've talked about hundreds and hundred
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  Speaker 4: like up to like five hundred, six hundred manatees at
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  Speaker 4: a time of nice, Like it's it's wild, it's really cool. Further,
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  Speaker 4: they have demonstrated that their navigation skills are learned in
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  Speaker 4: part from their parents, as young raised without their parents
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  Speaker 4: struggle to navigate those environments, So they actually learn and
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  Speaker 4: navigate these through this like observational behavior.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it seems like there is some other social
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  Speaker 2: contingencies that they have that help them learn this, Like
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  Speaker 2: I think they're taught some like strategies somehow as they
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  Speaker 2: go by, like having a mentor, which is really cool.
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  Speaker 2: So whether or not they're doing anything that even remotely
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  Speaker 2: approximates language, we don't know, but it is interesting that
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  Speaker 2: their social environment helping them navigate is kind of unique
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  Speaker 2: and again something you wouldn't expect if they did have
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  Speaker 2: lower cognition, which many people thought because they had smaller
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: brains and smoother brains, right, but they actually do these
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  Speaker 2: really cool things. Just a fun fact about their young
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  Speaker 2: since we're talking about them, So, manatees have a full
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  Speaker 2: year gestation.
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  Speaker 3: So humans are nine months.
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  Speaker 2: Manites go a full year and they raise their calves
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  Speaker 2: for about two years and they're nursing that entire time,
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  Speaker 2: and they'll start actually seeking out mates and breeding when
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  Speaker 2: once they reach around.
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  Speaker 3: Five years old.
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  Speaker 2: It's like four ish years for females and five or
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  Speaker 2: six years for males, but that's about when they start
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  Speaker 2: seeking partners, I guess, yeah, and then they might if
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  Speaker 2: they're successful in their mating seasons, have a calf approximately
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  Speaker 2: every five years or so. They don't have a lot
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  Speaker 2: of babies, is what we're saying here.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't have a lot of babies. Here's another
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  Speaker 1: fun fac too.
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  Speaker 4: They nurse their milk lands and their nipples are under
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  Speaker 4: their armpits, so like they nurse underneath their like flippers,
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  Speaker 4: the flipper four flippers, their flipper pits. Yeah, super cool now,
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  Speaker 4: most manatees only live to be about thirty or forty
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  Speaker 4: years old in the wild in most cases, but have
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  Speaker 4: been documented to live up to sixty nine years old,
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  Speaker 4: particularly if taken care of in captivity.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are some that they brought into captivity and
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  Speaker 2: they lived for decades and decades. But they have also
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  Speaker 2: documented some in the wild that we're living like well
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  Speaker 2: past fifty years old. Yeah, so it really depends on
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  Speaker 2: what kind of dangers they encounter. But we're not sure
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  Speaker 2: how long they could possibly live, but right now, the
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  Speaker 2: best evidence we have gests almost seventy years. Yeah, as
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: you mentioned, these gentle giants, they have no natural predators
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  Speaker 2: and no prey because they're herbivores and they're so large,
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  Speaker 2: even alligators and crocodiles leave them alone. They also like
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  Speaker 2: generally steer clear of them, but they don't seem to
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  Speaker 2: that interested in them, and probably because they're so large,
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  Speaker 2: Like it's just not like they're good. The crocodile is
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  Speaker 2: usually gonna go for something smaller that they can just
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  Speaker 2: take down in a single view.
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  Speaker 3: It's just easier for them.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not smart prey, yeah exactly.
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  Speaker 2: But yeah, they live these peaceful lives eating grass and
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  Speaker 2: cruising slowly along rivers and coasts and sometimes even along
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  Speaker 2: open ocean apparently, And so you might think that they
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  Speaker 2: do just find but the largest threat facing them, which
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  Speaker 2: is responsible for twenty five percent of all manatee deaths,
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  Speaker 2: is humans. Unfortunately.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, the largest threat to manatees is boats. There are
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  Speaker 4: nearly a million regular boaters in the regions of Florida
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  Speaker 4: where manatees live, and they kill a really alarming amount
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  Speaker 4: of manatees a lot of times because they're traveling. It's
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  Speaker 4: not even because they strike them through casual boating. It's
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  Speaker 4: because they're just traveling too fast in areas where manatees populate.
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  Speaker 1: That's usually what it is.
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  Speaker 4: Is they're just not paying attention and they are just
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  Speaker 4: blazing through areas that they shouldn't be, like moving so faster.
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  Speaker 4: It's like basically boats are traveling above the speed limit
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  Speaker 4: and it's killing manatees.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So, manatees can only hold their breasts for about up
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  Speaker 2: to twenty minutes underwater, so they usually stay pretty close
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  Speaker 2: to the surface they need to to breathe, they don't
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  Speaker 2: need to go particularly deep, and they do spend pretty
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: much all of their time in the water, but it's
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: pretty close to the surface, so that's where the bottom
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  Speaker 2: of boats are, and then people are being careless, they
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: tend to just run into them and do other things.
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  Speaker 2: The other way that humans threatened manatees is by destroying
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  Speaker 2: their habitats and polluting their water. Yeah, wetlands where there
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: was like a lot of enough water for manatees to
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: sort of swim in and navigate, those have been built over.
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  Speaker 2: They've just been you know, people brought in land and
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: developed there or drained it and whatnot. They've polluted the
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: water with chemicals and runoff. I mean, it's really just
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: due to policies that allow such things that the set
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: can even happen.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: I bet if you're listening to this, you could probably
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: guess what type of policies allow for that sort of thing. Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: so surprise, Manite conservation and environmental conservation is absolutely a
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: political issue and we should be spending more time doing.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: This, thankfully.
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  Speaker 4: You know, growing up in Florida, there was always a
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: big push for conservation here. Cool that is like one
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: of the strange things about Florida is that environmental conservation
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: has been such a critical part of all of our
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: education growing up. Maybe that's like a nineties thing, but
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: it was also just a Florida thing, and one of
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: the things that we always focused on was manit habitats.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: So I think lots of Floridians, if you're from here,
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: this is probably very familiar territory for you. For those
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: of you who don't know, they were endangered for a
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: long time and they have a lot of the conservation
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: efforts have done a really great job of bringing back
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: the populations cool, so it can be effective. It just
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: takes decades, but it has worked awesome.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: It's great that that is something that manages to succeed
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: somewhat in Florida, given that that's a place that tends.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: To not such.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: To not embrace such policies and to allow a lot
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: of destruction to happen of the natural beauty of Florida.
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  Speaker 2: As you had mentioned at the top of this, there
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: is some speculation. It's not super clear, but there's speculation
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: that when sailors came across to the United States and
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: they saw a manatees for the first time, they believed
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: that they were mermaids. Yes, and so it's not one
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: hundred percent confirmed that that's the case. Because there is
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: not a really great way to document these things, but
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: there is some evidence to suggest that's possibly what happened
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: is that they were desperate and dehydrated and probably low
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: on food and exhausted and hadn't seen a woman in
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: so long and then they see this vaguely humanoid shaped
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: thing in the water and with.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Like a paddle, get something with eyes and the lips.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lady as Actually, it turns out that
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: the name manatee is derived from the same word that
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: means like sirens, like the sirens from Greek mythology. So
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: that's just a fun mini tidbit about manates yep.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: And then one more tidbit too is that, like speaking
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: of how big they are, their tails are so strong
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: that if they if they had the balance, they could
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: stand upright and hold their body weight on land because
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: their tails and like their back muscles are so strong
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: that they.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: Can do that.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: So that's also kind of an interesting thing I thought
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: was a lot of fun to share.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Wow, all right, well we are way past time for
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: a minute, so we should wrap it up there. If
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: you like to support us, you can join us on
• 16:43
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• 16:47
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  Speaker 2: And then if you like to tell us your thoughts
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: on manates, you can email us directly and for at
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: wwdwwdpodcast dot com. But I think that's all we have
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: to say about manatees for now. Is there anything you
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: like to add before we say goodbyes?
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Nothing else death covers it.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: Thank you all for listening. Thank you to my team
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: of people.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: This is Abraham and this is Shane.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Why we do what we do? Mini is out.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Bye. You've been listening to Why We Do what We Do.
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: going to wwdwwdpodcast dot com. Thanks for listening and we
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: hope you have an awesome day