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An Unlikely Affair: If Dating is Exhausting You, Listen to This · Untraditionally Lala

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi Amber, Hi Lola. Welcome to an Unlikely Affair.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Welcome everybody to another episode of an Unlikely Affair. I
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: am so excited because I have my dear and close friend,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Sabrina Zohart. She is a dating expert, which is so
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: funny to me that we're dating expert. You just teach
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: people how to be good fringing' humans ultimately, So I
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: am so grateful that you're here, and I'm so excited
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: let's jump into this conversation because I have so many
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: questions and so many people wrote in and let's do it.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: Yay.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I know it trusts me when I say it.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: I feel a bit like a douchebag when I'm like,
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: I'm a dating expert, Like I don't. I try to
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: help people come back home to themselves, so that you know.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: I was talking to Ryan yesterday saying, I don't even
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: know that I love the relationship part of it because
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: I want to help people build a solid foundation so
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: you don't need help in the relationship. You already have
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: the tools and the safety built early on so that
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: you can have the healthy and successful relationship. So let's
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: help anybody who needs it.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's why I said, I feel like dating experts,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: and I don't want to like take away from your credibility,
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: but because I know you and you're you're so much
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: cooler than like a date like that title just like doesn't.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: You're just a cool person and I'm so grateful to
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: have met you, Sabrina. You have helped me so much
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: in the dating space, And you know, I think last
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: year there was a lot of questions and conversations on
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: how to navigate dating in the apps, and I kind
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: of feel like everyone's like ready to like turn the
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: chapter and talk about a new conversation when it comes
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: to dating, because for me and my journey in dating,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: it wasn't about not having a hard time matching with people,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: but it's like what do you do after you match right?
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: And like are people really seeking a relationship or they
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: just seeking someone to hang out with or have a
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: few fun one night stands. So where do you see
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: dating in twenty twenty six heading I think it's.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: A double edged sword, because I think you're right. I
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: think we were itching for something new. I remember I
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: got him in an age myself, but I remember when
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: dating apps came out when I had just moved to
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: New York and everyone was like, what is this, Like,
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: what do you mean?
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  Speaker 1: It's like match with something? Okay, Cupid came.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: Out and there was the most beautiful people, like everyone
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: was cool and fun, Like I was going on so
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: many dates that I remember just being like, this is
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: the best thing ever. And then the pendulum swung to
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: the other side, where then it was filled with these
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: bots and people that were fake or but sometimes escorts,
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: which is pretty wild to think. But I think we're
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: getting back to a time where people want more in person, right.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: I think we're itching for that, but there is a
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: caveat to that. As much as we want that, right,
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: That's why I hate it. If you wanted to, he would.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: I think we all want a lot of different things.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: But what I am seeing now is a couple of
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: things that we want immediacy, right, Like I need to
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: know within the second that we meet. Do you want
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: a relationship? Do you want a relationship with me? Do
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: you want one in the way that I want one? Right?
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: It's very specific.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: It's this very like Amazon, I need it delivered to
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: me atin two hours, otherwise it's not worth it. I'm
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: not saying everybody, but I am saying that's what I
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: see a lot, or this inability to handle rejection, like, listen,
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: no one wants to be rejected, right, whether that be
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: your career. Like, I don't think either of us love
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: to get the emails of sorry you didn't get this,
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: or we gave it to somebody else, but that's part
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: of it. And I think we've been okay with that
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: in certain environments. And then when it comes to relationships,
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: when you go on a date or two and it
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: doesn't work out, or you have to make that awkward
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: phone call or the text, we see this like crumbling
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: of our self worth. And so I think if we're
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: going to get back into real life, which I'm so
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: down right, I'm not saying everything has to be on
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: dating apps, then I think we also need to be
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: okay with it not working, with having to put ourselves
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: out there, with putting ourselves into environments, right like I
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: don't drink alcohol. I'm not going to go to a
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: bar to meet somebody, right like, that's probably not where
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: I'll be going to match with someone. But I think
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: we have to be okay with disappointment. And I think that,
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: to me has been the lost art of where dating
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: is going is because we're getting more and more into this.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I'd rather just be single.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: And to me, I hear that is more being avoidant
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: than anything else, because you're gonna have you're gonna be rejected,
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: you're gonna have people not work out. But it's not
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: about the ones that don't. It's about finding one person
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: that does.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean for me, I guess you could look
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: at it as like a numbers game. I remember my
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: dad always telling me, is like, it's kind of like
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: the lottery for auditioning, but in dating, it's like a
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: numbers game. You have to just date, and you have
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: to have that really thick skin and be able to
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: take rejection. And being able to take rejection from my
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: experience is about being regulated as a human being. Knowing
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: that just because someone doesn't you know, match with me,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: or we don't share the same values doesn't mean I'm broken,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean I'm unlovable, And it literally is you know.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: I know people say it's an inside job, but it
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: really is. You have to just be completely regulated as
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: a human and that is something that you have definitely
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: taught me how to do through the past few years.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: I want to even say how normal and human. That
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: is right, that we are going to be regulated and
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: just regulated. We'll have peaks and valleys, and we'll have
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: moments where you're crying on the floor because you can't
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: do this anymore, but then you wipe away the tears,
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: you get up and you say, yes I can, and
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: like I know, for me, I have ADHD. My speech
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: is a lot faster than the average person. My brain
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: processes differently, so I could look at things in a
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: very different way. Does that mean it's bad? No, Different
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: just means different. It doesn't have to be that we
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: attach these narratives to it. And I don't know about you,
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: but I see this a lot where we want to
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: identify with something right. I'm autistic, I'm ADHD, I'm aw
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: DHD Now, which is the new thing? I am attachment this,
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, But we've lost sight
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  Speaker 3: of like you're also a beautiful human who is worthy
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: and deserving of everything else that anybody can get that
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: it's really maybe just someone taught you along the way
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: that you're not.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Right, And it's like I'm done with a negative self
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: top talk. My word for this year is flourishing and
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: whether that means it's like three steps two steps forward.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: And I literally had this conversation with my older daughter.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: I said, she's like, I don't understand why I keep
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: making the same mistakes. And I said, London, Honey, that's life.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: You're going to learn this. It's going to be an
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: ever learning journey for you. Of it's not linear. Your
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: I make mistakes, Mom makes mistakes, Dad makes mistakes. Every
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: grandma makes mistakes, your sister makes It's like, this is
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: part of life. And as long as you're making these
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: little building blocks and flourishing, then you're doing your job
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: as a human being. Like, we're not supposed to be
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: perfect everything that you see, even though my kids don't
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: have social media as even as adults, we look at
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: this Instagram world or TikTok or you know, it's like
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: you see perfection. It's not supposed to be perfection. Like
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: one of the things that I love about you is
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: like on your social media, when you're having a hard day,
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: you're the first one showing up with tears running down
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: your face and it not rolling down your nose and
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: going like it is a rough day today, And it
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: could be for many reasons, but I want people to understand,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: especially post marriage, that you can fall back in love
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: because it's a different just because you've had that experience
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: of being married and you've had your either your heart
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: broken or simply didn't work out, like there's a path
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  Speaker 2: to flourish in.
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  Speaker 3: Dating hot mess like guy was and still come out
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  Speaker 3: the other side.
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  Speaker 1: And honestly, how beautiful.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Of what you were able to teach London right that
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  Speaker 3: you were able to like. I don't know if a
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: lot of people realize, but what you did for her
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: by telling her and reminding her that this is human
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: is what a lot of us were lacking.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: A lot of us didn't have somebody that was there.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: So what did we do?
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  Speaker 3: We created a story based on our core beliefs to
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: fill in those blanks. And sometimes right there, what you
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: did with her, for anyone that has kids, could change
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: the trajectory of the rest of her life because then
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: she can stop the chatter and go, oh wait a minute,
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: I close the loop.
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  Speaker 1: My mom explained this to me, I now.
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  Speaker 3: Understand there's a different thought process to it, and I
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: don't have to be perfect. I just have to be
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: me and it won't always work out versus my messaging
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: growing up was like who you are as a problem,
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: and so if you change who you are, then maybe
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: they'll like you and they'll stay.
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  Speaker 1: But if you stay.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: Who you are, people are going to leave you because
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: there's something wrong with you. And if I had someone
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: even at high school that was able to tell me differently,
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: who knows where I would have been. But I girl,
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: we all know my store. I was the hot mess express.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: I would sleep with anybody that walked. I was texting
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: a million times an hour. I was so anxious. I
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: couldn't function. I couldn't work, I couldn't take care of myself.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: And until I realized all of that was coping mechanisms.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: Those were just ways for me to escape what I
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: was dealing with internally, and then when I faced it,
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: now you can come out the other side. And the
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: other side of that looks like a human someone who
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: has bad days, someone who has moments where you want
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: to kill your partner but you also love them, someone
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: who is exhausted by dating but still hopeful that it exists. Right,
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: the huge sign of healing is two conflicting thoughts. That
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: I could be exhausted from putting myself out there, but
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: I also know that that's part of it, because that's
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: how we can keep going when we don't self identify
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: if there must be something wrong with me, that's when
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: no one wants me to change that to just haven't
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: met that person yet. It really allows us and of
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: course taking radical accountability of any behaviors or if there's
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: a pattern, right, addressing and understanding the pattern. But outside
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: of that, to your point, dating is a numbers game.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: Back in the day, it was proximity and timing. You're
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: in my neighborhood at the time, we're both twenty five.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: This is what people do. We get married, we have kids.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: Now I think we have so much information, but yet
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: we know so little because we can women and I
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: mean women, and if we're talking in that gender norm,
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: we don't need a man. We can be self sufficient,
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: we can have the family, we can have the career,
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: we can have what we want. And I think, really
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: what I'm seeing here is like we have the opportunities
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: to finally make choices for ourselves. And so if we
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: keep glamorizing. Oh, well, back in the day, men used
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: to go to war and they would write letters. It's
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: like and a lot of those men also had alcohol
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: problems and PTSD and cheated on their wives. So like,
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: if we want to go back into Pollyanna instead, what
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: we can say is now we get to make choices.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: And to me, I couldn't be more grateful to be
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: in a delt in the time we're in now because
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: I get to have choices I never would have had
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: potentially in the past.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Right, I love that.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: So people who that are like deep into dating, right,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: whether it's online or they're going out to The word
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: church came to mind. I don't know why that was
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: funny church or Whole Foods or wherever your community is. Right,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: how do you know if someone is emotionally available and
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: actually ready to date versus just hooking up? Like, what
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: are this? I would call them green flags or the
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: signs that you can kind of pick up early on
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: with the intention of I'm looking for a partner, I'm
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: looking for a spouse, I'm looking for whatever that you know,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: whatever you're seeking in terms of romantic life.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: So I think a lot of people might not like
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: my answer, but at the end of the day, we
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: have to show vulnerability to see if they match it,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: because somebody could come off either really strong and do
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: everything right, but maybe you don't realize that they're actually
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: a bit more of a facade than they are who
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: they are until you start to set a boundary, until
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: you have a tough conversation, until you say something to
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: them and all of a sudden you see the flippancy
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: and you're like, there it is right, or vice versa.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: When I first met my partner, he was a lot
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: more reserved and closed off and more a little bit
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: more stoic. That didn't mean he was bad. I thought
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: he was a dickhead when I first met him, but
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: I was like, get let's see if he opens up right.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: He had a really good sense of humor, So I
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: knew there was something there. And I think what it is.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: It's a couple of things. One, it's trusting yourself that
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: when something comes up. Or you and I have talked
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: offline about dating experiences, and I know that when we've spoken,
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: your gut was telling you something pretty early on. But
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: maybe it's all let me give them a chance and
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: let me see right. That's being hopeful and being just
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: like an adult, versus when you meet somebody now and say, well,
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: I tried to have a tough conversation with them, asking
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: their intentions. I couldn't get anywhere right, or I said
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: something and they dismissed me, or they discredited my feelings,
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: or they told me I'm being too much. They said
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: I'm too sensitive Right there, That means they'm not emotionally available.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: They can't hold space for their own emotions. So what
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: makes you think they're going to hold space for yours?
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: And so I think we want all the green flags
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: we're looking for as consistency. There are words and actions
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: align right. If they say they call, they call, and
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: if they don't, they give your reason not to that
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: they couldn't. If they say they're going to be, they're there.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: That is how we build trust and safety. When you
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: go to them and say, you know, you said something
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: the other day and it really rubbed me the wrong way?
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: Can I share that with you? They don't get defensive.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: They say, hey, talk to me. I want to know
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: what's going on with you, what happened so I can
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: understand you. They show curiosity. These are all emotional availability
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: cues that I think oftentimes we look over because we
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: romanticize the red flags. Oh they're mysterious and they're pulling back,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: which means they must be going through a lot and
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: it's like, no, baby, they're pulling back because they can't
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: handle this. And the quicker that you realize that the quicker,
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: you won't waste your time.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent. So people that are in the dating
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: space and going out, check in with yourself, like after
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: every phone call, just sit quiet. This is something that
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: I started doing that really helped me my eyes and
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I would say, okay, am I sweating? Like are my
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: legs numb? Or do I have butterflies? Or do I
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: feel at peace? Do I feel love? Do I feel warmth?
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Do I feel like an upward pull? Like for me,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: that was a big thing. And I really hope that
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: people can get out of their head and get more
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: into their body and their heart.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: Space one hundred percent because when we intellectualize your brain's
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: like cool, I can avoid feeling if I just understand it.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: And what you described beautifully is like that's you guys
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: are coregulating, and coregulation is a beautiful thing. But if
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: that's all you have, that's when it becomes dangerous. Right
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: if every time you're without this person, you're losing it.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: But okay, when you talk to them it's okay. That's
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: when it becomes okay, hey, this is becoming codependent, right.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Your mood is dependent on them. But when you have
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: a moment where.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: You're like, oh I feel something, you speak to them, Wow,
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: you got clarity. Okay, now I feel more regulated. That's
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: part of a relationship. That's what makes trust build. That's
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: how you feel connected to this person. What you also
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: described is called a corrective experience. Our nervous system doesn't
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: intellectually understand things. So even though you could sit here
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: and say is lovely and he's great, and my nervous
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: system should feel safe, your nervous system is going, yeah, okay, girl,
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: that's fun.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: That's fun. I need to experience that.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: Then when you experience it and your nervous system is saying,
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: oh okay, that's corrective. So not everything has to be this.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: It can also be this. That's how we have those experiences. Now,
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: for anyone listening, going, I've never had that in romantic
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: that's okay. You can have it in friendships. You could
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: have it with a family member, you could have it
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: with a colleague. I had a client who I just
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: adore him, and he was chasing this guy. It was
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: a gay relationship, so there's two men chasing him to
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: the point where it was breaking my heart to watch it.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: And I finally had to say, hey, we got to
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: intervene here because this just isn't right for you anymore
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: or healthy. And I try to stay out of that,
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: but sometimes you have to. And we had a call
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: and I said, is there anybody in your life that
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: makes you feel loved? And he said he started crying
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: and he said, my colleagues. They wrote me a letter
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: saying they've noticed that I've lost my spark because he's
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: been so enthralled with this guy. And they wrote to
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: me saying, you don't have to do anything. We love
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: you for you and we just want to be here
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: for you. And I was trying to explain, like, that's
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: a corrective experience your nervous system. It is appreciated and
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: people do love you for who you are. It just
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: because it's not romantic. Now, why do romantic hit the hardest.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: They're the closest, maybe to our caregivers, So there is
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: nothing that will hit you in that same way. That's
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: why we have to look and say does the pinch
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: match the ouch? But corrective experiences will help you to
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: understand if I accept this in my friendships, then I
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: accept this in my relationships and I'm not going to
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: make any concessions of either of those.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: M Ah, I love that. I love that so much. Okay,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: so let's talk about dating when you have children, right,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: because there's a lot of women out there that are
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: navigating dating and having kids who this has been a
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: really hard thing for me as well. And I'm you
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: know something that you said that I just want to
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: touchpace before we move on to this. It's like having
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: these healing experiences, you don't need to be completely healed
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: to be in a relationship. That is something that I'm
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: truly truly learning. And I feel like a lot of
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: people online will say like, you shouldn't enter into a
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: relationship unless you you know, you've spent a year by yourself.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Can you go three months without having sex? And I'm like,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: that doesn't work for everybody. What I've learned is that
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: you can have healing moments. It's like you're sitting on
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: the couch and the guy you're dating, you know, offers
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: you a drink that is a healing moment, or someone
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: where you're feeling sick and someone drops off a bag
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: of medicine saying, hey, I left something at your front door.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: That is a healing moment, and that is okay to
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: be able to have that experience while you're still learning
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: how to navigate a relationship, learning how you move through relationships.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: So I just wanted to make that point really fast
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: before we moved on Serena. How do you date when
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: you have kids? It's so Actually teenagers like my kids
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: have Diary of the mouth, like they say the craziest,
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: craziest stuff sometimes. So what have you seen with women
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: you know in your coaching business, women and men that
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: have have kids? And how do we navigate this?
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: So what I've seen is an amalgamation of things. And
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: we'll get back to the healing thing you brought up
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: was so important.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: We'll get to it after.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: Okay, when you're dating with kids, what we have to
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: remember is as a parent, right, that's the choice that
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: you're making, is to have these children.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: I hope it's a choice.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: I'm praying to everybody that it was a choice that
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: we made and that that wasn't made for you. But
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: on the aggregate, right, we have to remember that children
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: are our priority, And so I hear from some people
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: of like, well you know they had Like I had
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: one client and she said, well, you know, the guy
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: I was dating had to put his kid first and
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: not me.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Why the fuck was an I put first? And I said,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: but why would you be?
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: Why would you be if his daughter has a recital
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: versus him going on a date with you. I hope
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: he chooses his daughter's recital overgoing on the date with you,
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: because she is going to remember that, she's going to
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: need that, and then he can also make time for you.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: And I think what it's about is a balance, right,
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: is knowing that if somebody we have to look at
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: the custody component. Right, If somebody is fifty to fifty
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: with their partner, sure, right, you have more autonomy, you
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: have more freedom depending on the relationship. If someone has
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: eighty to one hundred percent of custody, maybe the other
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: partner is a deadbeat, right, whether a man or female,
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: I see it on both sides. Then what we have
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: to remember is like that person is going to be limited.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: I have dated men with kids. I don't have any,
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: And there was some times where I don't know if
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: I'd ever told you about this. The guy and I
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: were in the middle of having sex, right like, His
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: daughter lived in California.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I was in Florida with him. We're in the middle
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: of it, and she called.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: He stops to answer the phone to tell her because
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: she wants to play roadblocks. He says, I'm going to
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: go play with her. Will finish after now. That was inappropriate, right,
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: like that little she did not need to.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Play robox in that exact moment.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: You're allowed to say, hey, baby girl, I'll talk to
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: you in an hour, I'm in the middle of something
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: right now, or answer after right. I think what we
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: have to look and see is is this person ready
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: to make space in their life for someone else as well,
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: because we have to know that, like the kids will
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: be the priority. According to Psychology Today, they recommend not
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: introducing your children to your partner for a minimum of
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: nine to twelve months because in that nine to twelve
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: before that is usually when relationships don't work, and so
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: nobody right. I'm a childhood divorce. My dad introduced me
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: to a new woman every other day. It was always
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: a new person coming and coming in. And then my
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: mom didn't introduce us to anybody, right, So the pendulum swung.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: I think if you're going to be when it comes
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: to very little kids, I don't think it's appropriate. I
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: don't think that a little kid has the comprehension to
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: understand why is there ten guys coming in every few
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: months with my mom. But we also have to remember
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: that when you introduce your children to the person you're dating,
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: they're now looking and going. So this is how I'm
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: allowed to be treated? Because if mom is yelled at
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: and someone puts her down and screams at her in
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: front of me, then that means that's okay, that's what
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: I'm allowed to do, and that's how I'm allowed to
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: be treated. So we want to make sure anybody we're
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: bringing in to our children's lives is somebody that is
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: ready to be in our kids life. That's why I
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: always say, when you're talking about dating with kids, be honest, right,
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: Don't pull this bullshit of saying I'm not going to
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: tell this person that I have kids for the first
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: few months, like, I don't know why we would ever
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: do that. Be honest about the fact that you have children,
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Be honest about the custody you have, Be realistic about
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: the time you have I work six days a week,
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: I have my kids four of those days. Here's the
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: time I have available. Does that work for you? Because
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: I think what ends up happening And the reason worst
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: people get frustrated is they don't feel like they're given
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: a choice, and so give the other person the choice.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Right for you, and you have your kids and you're
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: telling the guy you date, hey, here's the schedule, this.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Is what it is.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: He's also allowed to make a choice if that works
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: for him. It's both people understanding that, especially if you
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: have both children. If you both have kids, then it's
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: about being open and honest that you're going to have
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: to blend a family eventually and having those conversations with
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: the kids when the time is ready. But make sure
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: that this is somebody you want to introduce to them
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: first before you do that, because it causes it's more
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: harm than good.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I agree a one hundred percent. I think for me,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: you know, I have my kids. Probably I don't want
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: to say ninety percent of the time, so it's really
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: hard for me to date, Like wait, do the nine
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: to twelve months of dating, because then I would never
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: see my person. So it's it's just about like figuring
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: out schedules. There's no rule book, and I want people
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: to know it's don't get mom guilt, don't feel bad,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: don't you just have to do what's best for you.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: And if you listen to your nervous system and you
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: have you know, a life coach, a therapist, someone that's
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: had this experience before in your community, that your or
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: your close friend group, talk to them about it, right,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: give get some advice because everything that you hear and
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: read online might not work for your life.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: To the point that you made earlier about the like
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: don't sleep with someone for this. It's like I fuck
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: my partner on the first date and here we are
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: three and a half years later, happily in a relationship.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: There is no one size, it's all now. The only
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: time I will say it's important to just look is
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: if we see a pattern consistently right every single time
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: you date somebody, then within the first date your future planning,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: you're starting to think of the wedding, You're getting so
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: anxious you can't sit still. That's when we might want
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: to say, Okay, then maybe we probably shouldn't date for
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: a minute. Let's come up with some own coping skills.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: Let's become stronger within ourselves. But to your point, there
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: is no right or wrong. Now would I suggest meeting
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: your kids on the first date?
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: No right.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: I would never ever suggest on the first date, being like, oh,
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: come on over and meet the children. But if you've
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: vetted this person and you feel comfortable, then it's also
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: having a conversation with the kids to say are you
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: okay with this? Are you okay with seeing mom? And
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: if not, I will respect that. But I think it's
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: allowing allowing the children to have a choice, but also
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: still being the parent. They don't get to call the shots,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: they don't get to tell you how you're going to
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: live your life, but they do have an input on
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: how it impacts them. To your point, I think it's
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: really important to work on the shame, the shame piece
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: of being a single parent who's dating, because I know
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: it might make you feel bad, but you're allowed to
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: have love and you're allowed to feel happy in a relationship.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: It doesn't mean you need to martyr yourself until your.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Kids go to college.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: One hundred Oh my gosh, I know someone who actually
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: wasn't in a relationship and didn't have sex for over
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: ten years because she was waiting for her kids too,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: And I was like, now that is the opposite end
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: of the spectrum, and that's unhealthy in my opinion, that's unhealthy.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Be sure, if that's a preference, good luck, Gods speed.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: But we want to find balance between want and need
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: right because we are biologically, I'm not talking about woo
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: woo attachment styles.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Biologically, we are wired for connection.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: They actually showed that loneliness is like, if you really
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: isolate yourself, it's just as dangerous to your health as
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: smoking fifteen cigarettes a day. So knowing that this intense loneliness, Now,
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: if you have a full, robust life and you say
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: dating just distracts, I'm doing this, but I'm giving myself
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: the time. Right if you're open to it, and you're say,
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: if I meet someone, great, but I'm not going to
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: be going on thirty dates and making this my full
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: time job.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: I hear you when I'm with you.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: But it's about being open to the possibility that you
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: do deserve love. And just because it didn't work out
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: with the one person doesn't mean that you can't have
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: a corrective experience to show your kids.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, so some of the questions that we got.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what are the girls going through?
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: What is a dating attachment style? And why does it matter?
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Okay, so let's zoom out for a minute, because there's
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: no dating attachment style. There are attachment styles we see
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: all over the internet. The avoidant as the worst person
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: and you should be a secure attachment. That's not what
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: this is about, right then, we're just villainizing other people.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: It's about understanding and what does this essentially mean? When
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: you have an anxious attachment, it's outwards low sense of self,
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: high sense of others, constant reassurance. That's where you get
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: the texting and the calling and the I don't feel safe,
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: so I need you to validate me and tell me
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: I'll be okay. Their biggest fears being abandoned and being
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: like truly a fear of intimacy. We don't see that
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: in the anxious attachment outwardly. But the anxious attacher is
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: also avoidant as well, because they're avoiding dealing with themselves.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: So that's why they go outward. Why don't they want me?
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: Why don't they like me? Why don't they want to
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: be with me? None of that matters? How is that
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: impacting you, So that's the anxious. Then we go into
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: the avoidant other side of the coin. They learned young
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: in childhood that love is not safe, that who they
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: are as a problem. That maybe they had a caregiver
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: that had really big emotions and they had to be
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: monitoring them, so they learned this isn't safe.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Maybe they had an.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Emotionally an available caregiver who put them down for having feelings,
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: so they learned to tuck them away. So when we
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: see the avoidant, it's low sense of others, high sense
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: of self, hyper independent. They see it as I'm losing myself,
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: I'm getting engulfed.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: This feels overwhelming. Now, no one's right or wrong.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: Both attachment styles can be very detrimental when nobody is
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: erectifying them and nobody is doing anything about it, so
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: it's not like one is better than the other. Then
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: we go into the disorganized, which is called they also
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: call it fearful avoidant. That is low sense of self
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: and low sense of others. So where we see that
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: very prevalent in homes of abuse. Your caregiver was your
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: source of love and fear, so you can imagine why
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: abuse would be where that would be prevalent, and so
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: that's really where you see the push pull.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: They want love.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: The minute they get it, they pull, they want it,
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: they go, they pull in out, in out. Then you
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: have secure, high sense of self, high sense of others.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: They understand that independence is beautiful, but so is interdependence. Love,
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: Giving love and receiving love is safe. Their feelings matter
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: so to other peoples, right, So that's what we're striving for.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: The reason that we look at this in dating isn't
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: to say, well, I'm an anxious attacher. It's like we
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: don't want to a self identify because you can. These
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: are not fixed. You can absolutely heal through and move
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: towards earned secure. But what we want to understand is
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: where did I learn this behavior from? And how old
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: do I feel when I exhibit it? And all we're
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: describing here when we go into the attachment styles is
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: you're triggered, right. It could be a neutral action or reaction.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: You get triggered. Your nervous system says I'm no longer safe,
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: and then we get flooded and and then we exhibit
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: specific behavior. So this doesn't mean that this person's just
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: always anxious from jumping off the walls, or that this
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: person doesn't hold any space for conversations. My partner is
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: more avoidant, leaning that doesn't mean it just when he
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: gets overwhelmed, he shuts down, and then I have to
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: kind of be there for him to get him back online.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: And when I get super anxious, that just means that
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: maybe he'll be there, hold my hand and say, hey, babe,
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: could we.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Do some breath work and come back to now.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: It just is an understanding of yourself and then how
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: you connect with other people. And that's why we want
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: to understand it. But for anything beyond that, it ends
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: up becoming detrimental.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Hmmm. I love that. How do you not bring that
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: fear being cheated on into every new relationship?
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: That's a tough one. I understand that you've been cheated on.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: So then we have to look and say what's the pattern.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: And this isn't about shame or blame. This isn't about
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: anybody saying, oh, it's all my fault and it's all theirs.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: What we have to say is was I.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: Dating somebody who from the beginning wasn't being honest or
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: maybe they were dismissing me feelings there of course there
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: are the times where you didn't do anything right. When
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: someone gets cheated on, I don't think it's ever the
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: person's fault, right, it's no one's fault that you got
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: cheated on. So I want to take that out now.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Could there have been reasons that the other person did that? Sure, right,
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: we can always, but the other person is accountable for
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: not having had the conversation with you and for deciding
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: to do it in another way.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: That's not on you.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: But if you are projecting that everyone's going to cheat
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: on you and you don't trust people, then we need
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: to get back to a self trust because it's never
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: going to help you no one. First of all, I
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: don't want to be beholden to what somebody else did
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: to you. That's not fair to me, that's not fair
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: to anybody knew that you meet to have to take
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: the brunt of what someone else did to you five
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: years ago.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: And so if you go around saying I.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Don't trust anybody, I want you to start to reframe
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: that to I don't trust myself to be able to
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: identify if they're a trustworthy person. Trust is conditional. I
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: give a little I see if they if they do
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: something with it. And then I give more. But I'll
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: say this, if you're going to try to get back
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: with somebody that cheated on you, then you're making a
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: choice that you have accepted it and that you are
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: going to let it go because it's not you want
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: to sit here and check their phone every five seconds
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: and excuse them and scream at them. It's like, that's
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: not helping anybody. Then please don't get back together with
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: this person if you can't trust them.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Whatever you decide, I support you.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: But if you're going to get back in the relationship,
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: then get back in the relationship and try with this
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: person and see if they can earn your trust. Personally,
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't, but that's just me.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Hmmm. I've been through that before and it literally hit
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: me on the head a bunch of times, and I
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: still didn't learn my lesson. But guess what, Sabrina, I'm
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: better now for it.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: I don't regret anything I've ever experienced because I wouldn't
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: be this version I am today.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent. Yeah, amen, amen. Okay, next question, where
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: do women begin when they are starting from scratch or
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: rebuilding their love life after divorce. That's a deep one.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: I think the best place to start is if obviously,
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: if you're in therapy, if you're working with somebody you know,
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: because what we have to do is rebuild your sense
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: of self. Right, For a lot of the times, especially
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: after a divorce, you're not just breaking up with the person.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: You're breaking up with the version of you that was
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: in that relationship. You're breaking up with the future you
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: thought you were going to have, with the plans, with
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: all of the things that you're breaking up with the
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: version of you that felt something in this relationship. And
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: so what we want to look at, but I kind
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: of did when I first went through my major breakup,
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: was obviously understanding what was the pattern, right, what kept
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: me in this, what brought me into it, and then
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: understanding the body sensation so that I was connecting head
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: to heart and really understanding the nervous system. But I
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: think it's really looking at what did I used to
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: accept that I'm no longer willing to and what are
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: my new non negotiables because we can only rebuild from there.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: We can't change what happened, and we can't fix anything
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: that happened in the past. But if we've were deciding
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: to move forward, maybe that means going with a dating
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: coach or a relationship coach or a therapist to understand
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: what are my patterns, how am I showing up? What
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: is it that I want? What do I not want?
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: What do I like? What don't I like?
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: And then the harshest reality is you might not know
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: until you get out there right. And that's why I
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: think dating apps, as much as people hate them, I
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: don't think they're the worst things in the world because
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: they allow you to get your feet wet. You're not
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: jumping out and going onto a singles event, but maybe
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: you get back on an app and see what comes
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: up for you. It doesn't mean you have to do
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: anything with it. But I think sometimes we are so
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: afraid to start that we never do. And I think
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: if you just get into it and put yourself out there,
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: then we can look and go, oh, okay, this doesn't work.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Let me see what are my choices.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: I remember when I became single and I was like,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: I am not going on the dating apps. I think
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: internally I just didn't trust myself enough until I had
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: a girlfriend sit down and say, Amber, listen to me,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: you have to and I said, but why she goes
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: because you've never dated. I got married at twenty, jumped
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: into relationship and was in that relationship for almost seven years.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: After that, I didn't know what dating was, and my experience.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: What I learned through dating is you learn about yourself.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: And I know that sounds so simple and easy, but
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: it was a foreign concept. I was like, of course
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I know what I want. I want someone who has
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: you know, who's loving and kind and stable and a
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: good example for my kids to show my kids what,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: you know, what respect and to love a woman looks like,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: and someone that's you know, mirrors kind of how my
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: dad is with my mom and all these beautiful things.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: But until I went out there, I was like, oh,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: my idea of what I want, what I think I
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: want versus what I really want are two separate things.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: And thank god I decided to try the dating apps
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: and listen, not all dating apps are equal. You get
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: different species with different dating apps, and it was really
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: such a great eye opener for me. So for those
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: of you sitting at home waiting for mister Wright to
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: knock on the door, it's not going to be the
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Amazon delivery guy or the FedEx guy, or the Uber
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: driver or you know, uber eats. You have to just
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: go out there and get your feet wet. Like you said,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: it's so important, and it's uncomfortable. Just get really comfortable
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: with being uncomfortable, because that is how you regulate your
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: nervous system. Eventually you realize I'm not being chased by
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: a lion. That fear that my you know that's going off,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: that alarm that's going off in my body. It's just
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: it's just uncomfortable, and it's okay. It's okay to sit
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: in the discomfort.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: You grow through discomfort to your point. Like we could
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: sit here on paper and say I want all of
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: these things, right. I could sit here and say I
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: can teach you how to do a deadlift, and then
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: the minute you go in the gym, you take your
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: back out because until you try it, until your body
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: understands it, it's going to be uncomfortable. And I'll say this,
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: get out of your head that the first person you
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: meet is going to be like the one that's going
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: to save everything and you won't have to do this
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: ever again.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Now can that happen?
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: Of course?
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: But I hear it all the time of like, oh,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: well they were the first person after my divorce and
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: I hadn't felt this and I felt so alive, and
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: it's like, that's beautiful. But you know what also makes healthy.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: This is what maybe I think a lot of people
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: don't get. What makes a relationship healthy is that you
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: know it can end at any time. That's why it's
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: healthy is because you're both making conscious choices to continue it.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: And it's not that I need you in my life.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: I want you in my life, and I'm making space
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: for you in my life. And so knowing that if
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: I'm going to put myself out there it might not work.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: There's probably a good statistically speaking.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: And odds on chance that it won't. But if I
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: hurt relationships, I also heal in relationships. And I need
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: to let my nervous system know. If I think I
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: want someone funny and gregarious and then I go out
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: with that and go, oh, I hated that, right, I
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: wouldn't know until I try it and examine it. Especially
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: to your point, if you've been married for a good
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: portion of your adult life, you didn't get to experience that.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: Go out, have some fun, see what you like, see
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: what you don't, and let I think the biggest thing
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: is if you start to make it mean anything about
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: your worth, then that's where we want to start to
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: take a look at what it is that we're doing.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: But if you're out there and you're enjoying yourself and
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: you're saying, this is a fun time, enjoy yourself, give
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: yourself the permission to be happy for a minute.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: A note that I was thinking about while you were
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: saying that is when I first got when I became single,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: I was dating and I was drinking, and that was
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: not helpful at all because I was really ignoring the sign,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: the alarms that were going off, or just really checking
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: in with myself. Doesn't mean that you have to be
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: completely sober and take that route, but maybe explore going
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: on a date and not having a drink, like what
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: does that feel like right? Or maybe just saying, Okay,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna have two drinks, I'm gonna have just
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: one drink and see how I interact with this person.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Because I think use, we use alcohol, we use these substances,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: whatever it is to kind of like put up these
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: blinders of really what is in front of us. It's
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: like taking off the glasses and really seeing this person,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: even after a couple of.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Dates, I would never make a determination about somebody unless
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: I've seen them in different environments. To your point, can
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: you guys just sit on the couch and talk. Can
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: you go to an arcade and have a good time?
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: What are they like when somebody cuts them off? What
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: are they like when someone tells them no?
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Ninety day fiance is my trash and we were watching
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: the new season, and of course it was like they
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: text every day and they facetimed every day, and she's
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: so an namorred with him because he was a good
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: looking guy and she was a pretty girl. They show
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: up and the first thing that they do, he says,
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: let's go to a bar, and she's like, I just
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: got off a seventeen hour flight to Australia, the last.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Thing I want to do.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: And he's like, oh, come on, opens a pursuitcase in
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: the middle of the fucking airport to find her an outfit.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: This girl.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: The whole the while, she's like Okay. Then they get
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: to the house and he's like, wow, she's really overbearing.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: She's really annoying.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: It's like, because you.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: Guys didn't know each other, see someone in different environments
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: so that you can then go oh, no, thank you,
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: because who is going to be the person that's holding
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: you when you cry. Who's going to be the person
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: when your parents pass, when something happens to you and
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: you get sick.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: That's who's going to be there for you.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: So you better make damn sure that that person can
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: be there in the ways that you also need.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm mm hmm. I remember I dated someone who
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: had terrible road rage, and that was a huge Like
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: I was in the car gripping. They were being screaming
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: at other people, and I was like, Amber, if you
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: don't run for the frickin' hills, I am going to
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: put you in time out like I had. I was like,
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: I have to get out of this. This is terrible.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: This is not good for me. And this is just
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: a small window on how he treats other people.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: And how disregulated he is, because road rage is a dysregulation.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: If you can go from zero to one hundred that quickly,
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: then that's a big red flag. But what happens is
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: we overlook it, right, We're like, oh, they're just frustrated
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: or oh they're But in the beginning, it was so fun,
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: it's like okay, But in the beginning, everyone's on their
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: best behavior, so we really want to vet this person.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: But he wasn't on his best behavior. That was like
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: just a few dates in. That's why I was like, Okay,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: this is not gonna work. Not work for me.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: I guess that's his version of his best behavior.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, soon after dating someone, you know, whether it's for
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: like a four week period, eight week period, how quickly
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: should you start accepting dates? Like if you're ready just
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: to jump like say you're dating you're not in a
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: full blown relationship, and you're you're dating someone after two
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: or three months it doesn't work out, Should you give
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: yourself a little space? Or do you can you just
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: jump right back, get on the horse and get y up.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: I think it's dependent upon who ended it and what happened, right,
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: because I've had it where I was so enamored with
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: someone that I was crying hysterically in my room for
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: three days after it ended, because it was more about
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: the idea of them than who they actually were. So
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: I think me running into another guy would have been
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: a distraction versus when I met Ryan. I broke up
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: with a dude two days prior, but we had like
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: a two month thing. It never got serious. He had
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: a rectile dysfunction, so I was never satisfied he was
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: you know, it was the type of thing that I
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: was already starting to fizzle. I was kind of getting
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: over it, and when we ended it, I was like, yeh,
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: I'm out of here. This is fucking bullshit, and so
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: I was ready. I was like, ah, this is a
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: blip on my screen, get back out there. And so
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: I think what we want to look at is how
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: do you feel if you're doing this beeacaeruse. You're trying
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: to get over this person and to help you forget
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: about them. Please don't go back out They're sitting that discomfort.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: Allow yourself to miss somebody and give yourself the closure
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: of I'm going through withdrawal. Especially if I had someone
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: every single day and now I don't have them at all,
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: I need to withdraw from them and not just take
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: another drug in its place.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: But if you are, eh, you know, it was fun.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: This was nice, but like it just didn't work out great.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, get back out there and date, because there's a
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: difference between how I'm seeing this as I this completed
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: me versus this was fun, but it just didn't work out.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: It looks the same on the outside, but on the
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: inside it's a completely different experience.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Hmm, okay, love that all right. Last question, what is
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: the difference between attention versus affection?
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: I really like this one, Okay, So I would say
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: attention versus affection is not enough of a differentiation. Affection
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: is just showing love. That could also be attention. We
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: want to know the difference between attention and intention. Attention
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: is just that somebody texts you that they're there because
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: it makes you feel good. Intention is that they're there
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: because of who you are. They're there because they want
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: to build something with you. They're there because they genuinely
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: see that you are a partner for them, which includes
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: how the hard conversations. Someone who's just there for attention
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: or even affection, right, I just want to feel good.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: I want to have sex, I want someone to cuddle with,
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: I want someone to be with. But they're not going
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: to be there when you have the hard conversations. They're
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: not going to be there when you tell them something bothered,
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: you reset a boundary. Someone intentional is going to stick
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: around no matter what because their intention is to build
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: something with you.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: It's not to get attention from.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: You, Amen's sister. I love it, Sabrina, thank you so much.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: I learned so much today and this is going to
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: be so helpful to all of the listeners. Guys, thank
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: you for tuning in to another episode of Unlikely Affair.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: We will catch you next week.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Bye guys, Bye,