Latest / After Maghrib 🌙 / The Problem With Muslim Influencers - ft. Haider Ali

Transcript

The Problem With Muslim Influencers - ft. Haider Ali · After Maghrib 🌙

• 0:00
  Smila Rahmad Rahim Assalamu Alaikum brothers and sisters and
• 0:03
  welcome back to another episode here on your favorite podcast
• 0:06
  after this is your first time tuning again and you're watching
• 0:09
  on YouTube. Go ahead, hit that subscribe
• 0:11
  button. And if you are listening on any
• 0:13
  of our Audible platforms, be it Apple podcast to Spotify, make
• 0:16
  sure you leave us a racing. I haven't sat down in a very
• 0:19
  long time. And brothers and sisters, make
• 0:21
  sure you're following our work so you're always up to date with
• 0:23
  all and every single of our conversation.
• 0:26
  Now today, Ahmed, we want to discuss something that's been on
• 0:29
  our mind for a very long time. And let me phrase it from here.
• 0:33
  You know, we, we live in a world where we see there's an
• 0:35
  explosion in content creation. And a question I want to ask
• 0:39
  today, perhaps with yourself and the respective guest that we
• 0:43
  have joining us, is what does that mean to us as Muslims,
• 0:46
  especially as Shia? Because we have seen and I have
• 0:48
  seen, I can open up my phone and I can see a single content
• 0:52
  creator inspiring millions overnight.
• 0:55
  I see people looking up to influences and they see them as
• 1:00
  a credible platform over organisations.
• 1:02
  Well, there's a lot to unpack today.
• 1:04
  What does it mean for us? Where, where does it, what does
• 1:06
  it mean for the Shia world going forward?
• 1:08
  And I think on the take it also it's what does it mean a Shia
• 1:13
  when it comes to content creation, the backlash, the
• 1:15
  positives, the negatives and the shallow.
• 1:17
  We will unpack all of that today now as I start the convo every
• 1:22
  week. What's going on?
• 1:36
  I'm good, man. Hamdallah.
• 1:37
  Can't complain. I'm excited for this
• 1:40
  conversation. We've been we've been planning
• 1:43
  it for a while. We've been like a long time
• 1:45
  coming, man. I've been planning my truck.
• 1:48
  God bless you, bro. How are you?
• 1:49
  All good. Yeah.
• 1:50
  Well Hamdallah can't complain. Just trying to be friends with
• 1:53
  HMRC off the set. That's a lot happening in the
• 1:57
  background. Charlotte goes well, man, more
• 2:00
  about that. All right, man guys, opportunity
• 2:04
  of a lifetime in Charlotte today to make sure we can all learn.
• 2:07
  I think there's so many lessons that we're going to pick up
• 2:08
  here, ideas to share. And also I think good
• 2:11
  opportunities for us to reflect on how we utilize our own social
• 2:15
  media, what we pick up, who we look up to, sources of
• 2:19
  information, and also ultimately the individual responsibilities
• 2:24
  we have when it comes to sharing content online.
• 2:26
  But to introduce, I think long overdue.
• 2:31
  And finally. Drum roll.
• 2:33
  The one and only Hayder, Ali Salaam Alaikum Hayder.
• 2:35
  My brothers, thank you. Alex Salaam, thank you so much
• 2:38
  for having me, brothers. Big love.
• 2:40
  Before I say anything, before the conversation get started,
• 2:42
  I've got to give you both your flowers, Marshalla.
• 2:45
  You guys have been absolutely killing it for for so long.
• 2:48
  And I feel like in in the world that we live in right now, full
• 2:51
  of so much negative energy and hate and just so much vadnais
• 2:54
  going on. I feel like we don't not enough
• 2:56
  people show enough love in this way.
• 2:58
  So big up on all you guys do and the doors you've opened.
• 3:01
  And most importantly, you and I were talking about outside in
• 3:04
  terms of like how you've served our community in such a unique
• 3:06
  way. So may Allah give you both a
• 3:08
  million times more. I just wanted to start with
• 3:10
  that. Thank you for having me.
• 3:11
  You're really excited for today's conversation, man.
• 3:13
  Likewise, it's going to be exciting and show our love for
• 3:15
  those who don't know you are, you're well known kind of I
• 3:20
  think in UK culture and obviously.
• 3:22
  You reckon? I think I don't know about that.
• 3:23
  One, I think Mashallah, you've been doing bits Mashallah.
• 3:26
  So for those who don't know, of course you hosted H ^2, which
• 3:31
  looked at a lot of pop culture lifestyle entertainment for.
• 3:35
  Sure, shout out my brother Hussein with Hussein.
• 3:36
  Yeah, well soon. Get well soon.
• 3:37
  Get well soon the big joy now man shall the next time and
• 3:42
  thereafter obviously kind of rebranded into no blind spots.
• 3:45
  At the same time, we've done a lot done a lot of other stuff
• 3:47
  outside in the mainstream. We've worked with BBC, Asian
• 3:50
  Network and also some some community organisations as well
• 3:55
  and and other media platforms. Bro, firstly, I, I need to ask
• 4:00
  you, OK, how does it feel like, you know, when you, when you
• 4:05
  look at where you are today and you compare it to the start of
• 4:08
  your content creation journey, what are kind of the main
• 4:11
  parallels you see in the world around us, especially kind of
• 4:13
  the social media world and in terms of how content creators
• 4:16
  act now, how they strategize and formulate their content now
• 4:19
  compared to when you start your journey?
• 4:22
  For sure. First thing I say is I don't
• 4:24
  know if I can personally call myself a content creator.
• 4:27
  I know that might come out as shock to you both and some
• 4:29
  people are watching this right now.
• 4:30
  Content to me has always and I've always said this on on, you
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  know, even on a public accord content creation to me,
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  podcasting content, TikTok, Instagram, whatever it may be,
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  it was always something as like a hobby, a side host or
• 4:41
  something for fun. So even referring to myself as a
• 4:44
  content creator, it's still something I don't fully know how
• 4:48
  to feel about. But regardless, it's not a bad
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  thing. But in terms of your question,
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  bro, I think it's beautiful, bro.
• 4:53
  I think it's amazing. I feel like going back to what I
• 4:55
  said a few moments ago about the world, it's so much negative
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  energy and there's, there's just so much pessimism in the world
• 5:01
  right now. But I feel like it's like, I'm
• 5:03
  going to already start with the metaphors and the puns, but it's
• 5:06
  like, it's like a gun, right? A gun is neither good or bad.
• 5:09
  It depends on the intentions of the trigger, right?
• 5:11
  The person holding the trigger. So for me, it's like when we
• 5:14
  started with myself and Hussein, when H ^2 started back in
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  November of 2019, not just podcasting, but content creation
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  in general wasn't not, let alone not as prominent.
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  It was nowhere near as prominent as it is now.
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  I mean, pre pandemic, very rarely are you seeing anyone
• 5:30
  pick up a camera blog in their life, YouTube being podcasting,
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  so on and so forth. And year after year, especially
• 5:37
  from the Covic era up until now, the doors that have opened, the
• 5:41
  opportunities that people have embarked on radio content,
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  podcasting, you know, St. interviews, the list goes on and
• 5:47
  on. You know me travel content,
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  whatever it may be, I think it's a I think it's beautiful, but I
• 5:51
  think it's great that so many people, so many averages, people
• 5:55
  like you and I, everyday regular, regular, regular people
• 5:58
  managed to find a bit of a niche, speak about something
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  they love, speak about something they're passionate about.
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  And then one month after the other, one year after the other,
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  they managed to make that maybe their full time income.
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  Maybe they managed to like secure brand deals from it and
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  just just make something from that.
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  So I personally feel like I would always champion content
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  creation, of course, given that it's done within the right
• 6:18
  intentions and you're not forgetting your values and your
• 6:21
  morals. Maybe a conversation.
• 6:22
  We can't be sure, man. It's interesting you mentioned
• 6:26
  all of that and you said you don't you don't see yourself as
• 6:28
  a content creator. If I go back to which year
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  should I go back to pre COVID, OK, and just pass COVID as well.
• 6:38
  And then shortly after that we start the optimal podcast.
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  But majority of the work that I did prior to this podcast, I
• 6:45
  used to recite. So for example, that meant going
• 6:47
  up on the pulpit. That meant, for example,
• 6:50
  creating lots of yards now has released on YouTube, you know,
• 6:54
  all, all, all the 9 yards that goes along with it.
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  People used to call me then not a content creator.
• 7:00
  They used to call me a Khadim. OK, So they used to call me like
• 7:03
  a servant. Nowadays, when I think about it,
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  the whole landscape thing, absolutely anyone that can go up
• 7:09
  a pole and handle us a blessing from a last part of talent that
• 7:11
  we have these opportunities where we can serve.
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  But now everyone on anyone can become a content creator slash
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  Khadim without, I'm sorry to use this word, any credibility, any
• 7:23
  history, and they come out of nowhere.
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  There is that danger. I don't want to take the
• 7:27
  conversation there, but I do want to mention this.
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  Yeah. Is that Ahmed?
• 7:31
  Do you see yourself as a content creator?
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  Because if I could be on my point, the whole compost.
• 7:37
  Yeah, no, to be honest to me, myself, and again, this is like,
• 7:42
  in all honesty, I do. Yeah, of course, because we, we
• 7:45
  all the, you know, the team of us started the podcast.
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  We, we have an intention to create content on a weekly
• 7:52
  basis. And on Hamdallah we've got this
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  podcast, we have Homer Heart of the Sisters podcast, we have
• 7:56
  Golden Hour. We've got so many other shows of
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  course lined up as well, Juma nights as well.
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  Obviously the team that comes with it.
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  And Hamdallah, we've got staff members, volunteers now wider
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  team of volunteers as well, events, all of that Hamdallah
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  stuff around the world, conferences, partnerships with
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  like international media organisations, all of the stuff
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  that's come with it has been a result of the content creation
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  that we've done as a team. Me myself, I see myself as a
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  part of that journey and someone in Charlotte who's able to
• 8:26
  contribute towards that. But I don't feel like, and this
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  is an interesting one because I don't feel like being called.
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  See, The thing is there's baggage that comes with that
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  description being called a content creator.
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  And I feel like people look at that term as, as like it's a
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  very loaded term in today's day and age because it comes with
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  baggage. And I feel like for the average
• 8:44
  Joe, people look at they, they might look at content creation
• 8:48
  as the same as an influencer. When you hear the word
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  influencer, you then assume all sorts of things that for
• 8:53
  example, they, they, they engage in click bait content.
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  They're there to rage bait people online, whatever it might
• 9:00
  be. I don't think it's mutually
• 9:02
  exclusive. However, I feel like anything
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  like you said, anyone and everyone can create content and
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  also mainstream media has now engaged in content creation as
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  well. 100% everyone's trying to do everything now.
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  If you look at the Sky News and Zeteo and BBC where wherever
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  you're looking, whether it's politics or religion or sports
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  or lifestyle talking, whatever it is, people are trying the
• 9:26
  same types of content, The formula which works because they
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  realise it works for others. So agreed, Yeah, it's an
• 9:34
  interesting one for sure. I just on the just I didn't want
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  to drop you in a fantastic point.
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  Just just kind of piggybacking of what you said a few moments
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  ago in terms of essentially what you said.
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  Correct me if I'm wrong, is the entry route of content creation
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  nowadays essentially is 0 in terms of all you need is a phone
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  and a camera. And creative it's.
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  Just literally just you just you just open your camera and then
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  that's it. You can just there you go there,
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  there's your production team, right?
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  You know, you have ideas. You can open your notes pad.
• 9:59
  There's your your notes page. Sorry, that's your scripts
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  there. Whatever bullet points, however
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  you want to do it right. But would you guys say is how do
• 10:06
  you guys view it? Is that a good thing or a bad
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  thing? Because me before you guys
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  answer, just so you don't feel pressured, I feel like the
• 10:12
  answer is it's there's a lot of benefit in that.
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  Because on the flip side, alhamdillah, it gives anyone, as
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  I said a moment ago, any regular Joe can have an idea whether
• 10:22
  even if it's something that's like, I'm just going to give a
• 10:24
  silly example. Let's just say you're someone
• 10:26
  that loves food. You're a foodie, for example,
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  right? I know I am.
• 10:30
  Yeah. And let's say you're someone
• 10:32
  that's always been like in your friendship group, you've always
• 10:34
  been the guy that says yo, oh, Amandam, this new joint just
• 10:38
  opened in so so place. Let's go check it out and then,
• 10:40
  you know, give feedback on that. And then eventually you become
• 10:43
  this food content creator where you review burger shops or pizza
• 10:46
  places or whatever it may be. Now imagine you're just some
• 10:49
  regular average person who's watching this from London or
• 10:52
  from Birmingham forever, wherever you're from.
• 10:53
  You start doing enough of that and next thing you know, you've
• 10:56
  got a whole massive audience that trusts you and so on and so
• 10:59
  forth. And now that's become your main
• 11:00
  bread and butter, excuse the pun, right?
• 11:02
  But on the flip side, it's like, OK, now that the avenue has been
• 11:05
  open, open in terms of everyone can access it.
• 11:08
  Now we all know and let's not say names out of respect, but as
• 11:11
  much as we see success coming from the content creation world
• 11:14
  and the influencing sort of industry, if you want to call
• 11:17
  it. But how many people do we know
• 11:19
  that are whether that's them embarrassing, embarrassing
• 11:21
  themselves, embarrassing, embarrassing their their
• 11:24
  families, their communities, like representing things in a
• 11:27
  very negative or, or I'll hearted way, and the same thing
• 11:30
  applied to them. The entry route was 0.
• 11:33
  So I personally see as it's there's a pro.
• 11:36
  There's. Pros, but there's also a lot of
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  cons as well. Do you know what I mean?
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  Yeah, yeah. Would you, would you guys think
• 11:41
  of that? Yeah, I mean, it's my brain is
• 11:44
  going in two different ways, right.
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  So on one angle I'm seeing, for example, it can be a very
• 11:48
  positive thing. It depends on what you're doing,
• 11:50
  right? You give the example of someone
• 11:52
  liking his food sharing and then building an audience and getting
• 11:55
  a huge following. That's something positive.
• 11:57
  There's nothing wrong with that. There's no harm with that.
• 11:58
  You're not corrupting the earth. You know, you're not doing
• 12:01
  anything wrong to mislead people.
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  I think you're generally sharing your your I don't know your like
• 12:07
  for food, your taste. What, unless you want to suggest
• 12:10
  to people to visit. That's on one level.
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  But then the positive I see from this is that anyone that can
• 12:14
  have access to their phone and going online and streaming or
• 12:18
  creating Tik toks or creating Instagram reels or YouTube
• 12:21
  shorts or I don't know, going like on this, wherever it may
• 12:24
  be, is that if you are challenging a wrong narrative.
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  And I see, I see this for us, especially as she on this day
• 12:31
  and age, is that we can have the opportunity and it's a name from
• 12:35
  God that hasn't been taken away from us, that we have an
• 12:38
  opportunity to correct the narrative when people throw
• 12:41
  misconceptions at us left, right and centre.
• 12:44
  And this has been going on for generations prior to the rise of
• 12:48
  media platforms, before it was literature, books and schools.
• 12:52
  And I don't know and influences by let's say anti Shiite groups,
• 12:58
  they will say she has do this, she has say that she has
• 13:00
  worshipped this, she has believed in this.
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  She has al kafar, she has, you know, they do shirk.
• 13:05
  She has all out to others and Allah.
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  This has been going on for years.
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  When I was a kid, before all the social media existed, I was
• 13:12
  aware of all these things, but we didn't know how to like
• 13:15
  answer them. Do we have to answer them?
• 13:16
  That's the first question. But I don't know how to correct
• 13:18
  the narrative. But today when you open up
• 13:21
  social media, you see the alternative, you see a different
• 13:25
  voice that's actually bringing, you know, the the Shia point of
• 13:30
  view to the masses that didn't exist before.
• 13:33
  So, and I'm seeing that happen more by these soul content
• 13:38
  creators more than organisations.
• 13:41
  Well, do you know what? Yeah.
• 13:42
  Can I just just to add on to this.
• 13:44
  Yeah, I this is what I wanted to say as well.
• 13:47
  I fully agree because like when you talk about this, I agree
• 13:50
  with you, We have, there has to be like a responsibility.
• 13:53
  Let's, let's, let's look at this.
• 13:55
  Obviously there's the broader dynamic of anyone who wants to
• 13:59
  and can create content has access to.
• 14:01
  We know that we've seen that, for example, even since the
• 14:03
  start of the genocide in Palestine, we've seen the way
• 14:06
  things have been reported on both sides.
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  And obviously the authenticity and the, and the legitimacy of
• 14:12
  the, the, the cause of the oppressed has prevailed.
• 14:16
  So the world has seen that people who have access to their
• 14:19
  own sources of media has then enlightened the broader world
• 14:22
  the real narrative. So of course, that's that's one
• 14:24
  angle. When we're talking about the
• 14:25
  religious angle, if you were to ask someone today, what does the
• 14:30
  Islamic social media scene look like and Islamic content
• 14:33
  creation, there's a few things. There's a polemical
• 14:36
  conversation, polemical discussion that's done through
• 14:40
  stuff like YouTube documentaries or series or whatever shows
• 14:44
  that's done through things like Speakers Corner and all of that.
• 14:47
  And then obviously you've got things like TikTok live.
• 14:49
  So if you were to break into those 3 modes, yeah, that's,
• 14:53
  that's kind of where we are as of today in Charlotte.
• 14:56
  We've watched this episode in three years time.
• 14:58
  We've evolved. But you know, Charlotte.
• 15:00
  Yeah, we hope so. But beyond that as well, it's
• 15:03
  like there's there's a lot to be aware of.
• 15:05
  Like you said, as fast as information or misinformation
• 15:10
  can be shared. And for example, misconceptions
• 15:12
  can be shared about any community, including Xiao non in
• 15:16
  the same way they can be clarified.
• 15:18
  But then the question becomes, knowing that you have the access
• 15:22
  and the ability to create content, is there a
• 15:24
  responsibility to create content to then counter views which
• 15:29
  opposed to your own? Or do you then saturate a
• 15:33
  conversation and are you then feeding more into a in a ready
• 15:38
  like very noisy echo chamber and kind of just making things
• 15:44
  louder and more polarizing at least to the online community?
• 15:47
  Do you know what I mean? It's definitely something to
• 15:50
  think about and as cliche or as vanilla my answer may be, but I
• 15:54
  think is extremely subjective, dependent on the creator
• 15:57
  themselves. So for example, if I'm just
• 16:01
  going to give an example of something that can relate to all
• 16:03
  of us is obviously our identity as Shia Muslims, right?
• 16:06
  Yeah. If let's go back to the foodie
• 16:09
  example I said a moment ago, right, if a food influencer got
• 16:13
  big, but he or she is also a Shia Muslim, but they got big on
• 16:18
  social media not for their religious opinions or their
• 16:21
  religious affiliations, but rather because of their their
• 16:24
  love for food and their expertise on giving great
• 16:27
  reviews, right? So then the question becomes in
• 16:30
  terms of what you said about responsibilities and
• 16:32
  accountability, like does just because you might be someone
• 16:36
  from a particular background and you you've amassed a certain
• 16:39
  following and an audience, does that then mean you have an
• 16:42
  obligation to do certain things? Are that also becomes like a
• 16:46
  what do? You think like if I was to give
• 16:47
  you a situation, yeah, let's say for example, you mentioned
• 16:51
  foodies that you know, for example, like chefs, you know,
• 16:54
  or like someone who gone on the master chef or like The
• 16:56
  Apprentice or whatever. You've blown up.
• 16:58
  You've got a following in a certain industry, Yeah.
• 17:00
  You've made it to a point where you've got a community of people
• 17:02
  who respect you and love you. If you're passionate Shia, Yeah.
• 17:05
  How would you go about it? Are you asking me personally?
• 17:08
  You personally like what would you do bro?
• 17:09
  Have you got all in? Would you listen?
• 17:11
  Keep it aside. I've not been a MasterChef, I've
• 17:13
  not been on anything. I've just I can just about make
• 17:16
  an egg and. He's gonna bake up a.
• 17:17
  Cake in Charlotte, If I can bake a cake, you guys would be the
• 17:21
  the first ones to have it in Charlotte.
• 17:22
  So, so you know what you test. You know, you know, we were
• 17:25
  meant to film last week. Yeah.
• 17:27
  They've got food poisoning. Yeah.
• 17:29
  That. Was the reason I feel about man.
• 17:31
  Listen, let's not get into that. We'll ask your question again
• 17:33
  because I had a sick answer. How would you go about it
• 17:36
  yourself? But all jokes aside, me me
• 17:38
  personally bro, I don't this I'm saying go back to the whole
• 17:42
  content creation influence. I don't call myself any of these
• 17:44
  things. I will 100% speak about it.
• 17:47
  Like if you look at my page, I don't speak about this stuff all
• 17:49
  the time. I don't care what backlash.
• 17:51
  I don't care the fact that I've got a relatively small audience.
• 17:54
  In that sense. I don't think I'm a big
• 17:56
  influencer or a big content creator or nothing.
• 17:57
  But you can bet your last pretty penny that just who I am as a
• 18:02
  person, irrespective of a brand deal, irrespective of like, you
• 18:07
  know, I was talking to you about outsider who may unfollow me,
• 18:09
  who may raise an eyebrow. Oh, I didn't know my man's a
• 18:12
  she, bro. I don't, I don't care.
• 18:14
  Like I don't care. I am a Shia Muslim.
• 18:18
  I am a follower of a middle Mormina, Leia Salaam.
• 18:21
  And you know, I'm trying to see. I don't hide that.
• 18:24
  I don't sugarcoat that. Yes, I will be mindful in terms
• 18:28
  of the way I communicate certain messages because that's just how
• 18:31
  I've been raised in terms of a clock.
• 18:33
  And I'm sure you guys will agree in terms of we may have certain
• 18:35
  opinions that differ to our brothers and sisters from
• 18:38
  different, different schools of thought, but that doesn't mean
• 18:41
  we start overstepping a line and disrespecting people.
• 18:44
  Maybe we can have difficult conversations and difficult
• 18:46
  dialogues, but it's still with empathy and, and, and and
• 18:50
  maturity. But in terms of answering your
• 18:51
  question, bro, just me as an individual, maybe it's just how
• 18:54
  I am. I've always been, I was always
• 18:56
  the kid in school that was, you know, outspoken in class.
• 18:58
  I remember in RE like I can still remember in my head in
• 19:01
  like year eight-year 9, the whole class is arguing with me.
• 19:04
  Jesus was a Jew. I went to a white school, hence
• 19:06
  the accent. Jesus was a Jew, then Jesus was
• 19:08
  a Jew. I was like, yeah, about that,
• 19:10
  sorry. And then my teacher would take a
• 19:11
  back and there's me the the brown Pakistani kid just telling
• 19:15
  everyone, Nah, you don't hold this L because this ain't true.
• 19:18
  Do you know what I'm trying to say?
• 19:19
  So I've always been I will know that SLW situation.
• 19:21
  Do you know what I'm trying to say?
• 19:22
  But my point is, is like just me, who I am as a person, I will
• 19:26
  I will like unapologetically bro, like like if it hurts your
• 19:30
  feelings, you know, I'm sorry about that mate.
• 19:33
  But the truth, Sorry, not sorry. Do you know what I mean?
• 19:35
  Sorry, not sorry. Like I, I'm not going to water.
• 19:39
  I'm not going to dilute myself. I'm not going to water down my
• 19:42
  beliefs. Like look, bro, look, I am a
• 19:44
  Shia. I, I, you know, we have our
• 19:46
  beliefs about which, you know, Mama Ali being the first caliph
• 19:50
  and so on and so forth. You know we do.
• 19:52
  We do. Pray yourself, you.
• 19:53
  Don't hide it. Yeah, we, you know, right there
• 19:55
  there's a box of turbans. We do, you know, we do.
• 19:57
  There's there's certain things that we.
• 19:59
  Right there. Yeah, yeah, Ali mother, even the
• 20:01
  fact that I just said that people are going to get
• 20:03
  triggered, but it's like, Oh my God, shit, bro.
• 20:05
  Look, I've made few videos about this online about explaining
• 20:08
  certain things. I was telling you again,
• 20:10
  outside, we had a real we had our own podcast outside, by the
• 20:12
  way, you know, you know, you know, that should have been Part
• 20:18
  1. It should have been Part 2.
• 20:19
  But my point is, is like, but then I've also made videos in a,
• 20:22
  in a, in a mature and positive way to explain certain things
• 20:25
  like the concept of Wasila, why she has do Martin, you know, why
• 20:30
  you know, you know, for example, even small things like opening,
• 20:33
  you know, during Ramadan, iftar, why is it a tiny time, a tiny
• 20:36
  Billy? And then our brothers and
• 20:37
  sisters from Eccles to Noel Jamar, so on and so forth, like
• 20:40
  having those conversations in a positive way.
• 20:42
  You keep it respectful. That's the main thing.
• 20:44
  Like you're you're you're conscious that your audience.
• 20:46
  Yeah, is you're trying to encourage education and
• 20:49
  dialogue. You're not there to try and rage
• 20:51
  bait them or to cause backlash. Am I right?
• 20:55
  I mean, I definitely don't do things with the intention to
• 20:57
  like understand or upset someone.
• 20:59
  But naturally, sorry to cut you, naturally, no matter how mature
• 21:03
  I'll be in the video, how much I'll think about, you know, OK,
• 21:06
  let me approach this with an empathetic approach.
• 21:08
  But there's going to be some, you know, I can't say what about
• 21:11
  to say. I'll get counselled.
• 21:12
  But there's going to be someone from a different school of
• 21:14
  thought who may have extremely opposing opinions to the point
• 21:19
  where they will call me a kafar. They will call me what's the
• 21:22
  word? I don't speak Arabic.
• 21:23
  Rawafid. We got that.
• 21:26
  We got that one as though Rawafid was it Rafidi?
• 21:29
  It's like I've said it before. And I said again, I am Rafidi.
• 21:32
  I reject the truth that you believe, not my, my, my truth is
• 21:38
  our truth is our truth. But have you noticed it's not,
• 21:42
  it's not the again, I'm not trying to make this a finger
• 21:44
  pointing competition, but who's the like, who's calling who the
• 21:50
  kafaras? Who's calling who the Rawafid?
• 21:53
  Like it's always it seems to always tend to be coming from
• 21:55
  one particular side. So that in itself goes to show,
• 21:59
  well, I'm personally like I'm a 30 year old British Pakistani
• 22:03
  with, you know, who's also a Shia living in living in the Uki
• 22:07
  work 9:00 to 5:00. I'm a regular, regular guy, but
• 22:09
  like you won't ever me got my way to disrespect another
• 22:12
  sector, another belief system. But at the same time, like I
• 22:16
  will, I will, I will live my life in terms of the way that I
• 22:20
  believe the Islam that I've been taught should be, should be
• 22:23
  practiced. Yeah.
• 22:25
  Yeah, these are these are solid points, man.
• 22:27
  And I think it's very important because, you know, I've seen so
• 22:30
  many, so many people online who I know are Shia, for example, or
• 22:34
  push Shia aside from who are Muslim, who don't act Islamic or
• 22:38
  for example, who, who to discuss certain topics that are far away
• 22:42
  from the religion or suddenly at times goes against the religion
• 22:45
  itself. And sometimes you think it's
• 22:47
  like the other day I mentioned one of our previous podcasts,
• 22:50
  there was this huge Muslim influencer.
• 22:53
  Yeah, they were influencer. The they brag about being
• 22:57
  Muslim. They show their spirituality to
• 23:00
  the people. They advise people on religion
• 23:02
  and getting closer to Allah, Subhanahu Ta'ala.
• 23:04
  They were at a concert and they said this in the concert.
• 23:08
  Yeah, they said. I know this is Haram, but thank
• 23:12
  you Allah for giving me the opportunity to be in this
• 23:14
  concert seeing my favorite single Baffles.
• 23:17
  They said that, yeah. At the concert.
• 23:20
  Bro, I didn't sleep properly that night because I was just
• 23:22
  trying to understand. You've built an audience over
• 23:26
  many, many, many years portraying something, and then
• 23:30
  after all these years, you're coming out and you're going
• 23:32
  against. Yeah, certain values and
• 23:34
  principles. Yeah, Yeah.
• 23:36
  And then there is that scary thing when I am misguiding
• 23:39
  people. And I think that's where the
• 23:40
  rest all the time, as was Yeah. There is this thing that if we
• 23:43
  do something wrong, we may negatively influence those who
• 23:47
  consume the content we create and allow them, you know, to go
• 23:50
  left and right. See the interesting, sorry, I
• 23:52
  mean, were you going to no, no go.
• 23:53
  The very interesting thing about that is as you were speaking,
• 23:56
  you kind of landed a point for me that I was, I was going to
• 23:59
  say if you hadn't said it, but I'll just now like add on top of
• 24:02
  it is the fact that they have branded themselves as X type of
• 24:06
  person. So you say, I don't know, I
• 24:08
  don't want to ask names because you know, so, so you're saying
• 24:11
  they speak about Islam, they preach Islam, that Islam is
• 24:13
  their main brand pillar, right? At the same time, they show
• 24:16
  their life. Yeah, but 90% of the content?
• 24:18
  Is to do with Islam. So, so from that perspective,
• 24:21
  like, I'm not going to sit here and lie like, you know, we, we
• 24:23
  all seem like in terms of like someone might listen to music or
• 24:25
  someone might go to content. So and you know, we're all on an
• 24:27
  individual journey, right. But The thing is, it's like, if
• 24:32
  and if someone has a following online and they also happen to
• 24:35
  be a Muslim, but their brand wasn't built by speaking and
• 24:40
  talking about Islam, then I would say fair enough.
• 24:43
  Then it's a bit of a Gray area because I would say despite
• 24:45
  something being, I mean, halal and Haram, there's, there's no,
• 24:48
  there's no conversation something's either halal.
• 24:50
  It's not right. But in terms of something like
• 24:52
  that, the example you gave is like, listen, if your core
• 24:55
  audience has been amassed due to the fact you speak mainly
• 24:59
  predominantly about about Islam and now you're saying,
• 25:02
  alhamdulillah, we're going to a. Concert annoying you?
• 25:05
  Mental Group. Gaslighting your audience to
• 25:08
  following you because you share Islamic reminders, Islamic
• 25:11
  content, yeah, yeah. You're then manipulating them by
• 25:13
  showing them the stuff and you're forcing them to watch you
• 25:15
  publicly saying the other thing as well is you know what it is
• 25:18
  as Muslims, whether or whether or not you're posting online.
• 25:21
  And look, even the world prior to content creation, prior to
• 25:26
  flipping smartphones, we still had these responsibilities,
• 25:30
  right? So whether it was you're you're
• 25:32
  speaking in public, whether you're speaking in in in the
• 25:35
  Masjid or with your family or friends, the concept of Amir
• 25:39
  Bill Mahal Roof, Nahil and Munkar has always existed wajib
• 25:43
  on all of us. And the fact and you know, to
• 25:46
  advise and encourage towards good and to discourage away from
• 25:49
  evil is something which is wajib upon us.
• 25:52
  And that includes, for example, calling out people.
• 25:55
  And I feel like obviously like there has to be in a club
• 25:59
  decorum with it because when you're calling out people, you
• 26:01
  want to do it in the right way and in a way which is mature and
• 26:04
  Islamic. But calling out people who are
• 26:06
  publicly sinning, saying, bro, look for your own Goodman.
• 26:09
  Like I think you should take it down for XYZ reason.
• 26:11
  And at the same time encourage people towards doing good.
• 26:14
  That's something we have to do in it like and I think us as
• 26:17
  Muslims, generally speaking, that should be a code for us in
• 26:22
  our day-to-day lives regardless. And then we then adopt and
• 26:25
  inherit that when it comes to our social media journey and our
• 26:29
  content creation journey. And then not only are we then
• 26:32
  putting out more like credible content and easygoing content
• 26:35
  for for Muslim audience or non-muslim, but at the same time
• 26:38
  you're then easier to talk to. You're not going to get butt
• 26:41
  hurt when people ask you to take content down.
• 26:43
  I do want to ask you guys about another thing, but we'll come to
• 26:46
  it after this video because I know I want to show a video, but
• 26:49
  I do want to talk to you about hijabi influences and make up
• 26:53
  eyes. That's the whole thing.
• 26:55
  I know we're three guys, but let's just check out this video.
• 26:57
  Mushwah, you got it ready. Yeah.
• 27:01
  Hey, how you doing? Samani Kumbaya, how are you?
• 27:03
  Good. Good.
• 27:04
  Thank you. Congratulations on Hamlet and
• 27:06
  everything that you do Thank you.
• 27:07
  As a Shia Muslim and you know a Bengali woman, I try to uplift
• 27:11
  my community and spotlight them as well.
• 27:13
  So I wanted to ask, why do you think it's important to instill
• 27:15
  themes of your culture and also religion into the art projects
• 27:18
  at your part of? I think that the big thing that
• 27:22
  people connect to in any piece of art is it's authenticity and
• 27:27
  honesty. And so if it feels specific, if
• 27:31
  it feels like it's really connected to the vision of a
• 27:34
  filmmaker experience of the artists are making it, I think
• 27:37
  we just connect with it in a much more raw way.
• 27:40
  So when we wanted to do Hamlet, you know, Anil was going to
• 27:42
  direct it, he said, I want to set it in my community.
• 27:44
  You want to set it in this British, Hindu, British Asian
• 27:49
  environment. Part of that's just logic,
• 27:51
  right? If I'm going to play Hamlet,
• 27:52
  it's going to be a brown family community, brown wedding.
• 27:56
  You know that scene in the of the film.
• 27:57
  Yeah, exactly. And part of it is also because
• 28:00
  actually some of these really old British Western stories,
• 28:02
  they feel more believable in traditional cultures like ours
• 28:07
  because they're about family, they're about honour, they're
• 28:10
  about duty, they're about spirituality.
• 28:12
  And those are things that are still very alive in our
• 28:14
  communities. So for that reason actually, we
• 28:16
  realise that placing it in that specific setting brings the play
• 28:19
  to life in a new way, in a in a way that actually makes it feel
• 28:22
  more real. Yeah, I just want to shout out
• 28:24
  Sister Nabila as well. I saw her last week at an event.
• 28:27
  She's doing great work. We had a we had a chat about
• 28:30
  kind of the the way we can hopefully work together, but
• 28:33
  she's doing incredible work and there's a lot of others who are
• 28:36
  proud to. And bro, she's interviewing
• 28:37
  Razam and Shah Razam as well. Man, he's went to my school
• 28:41
  wiki. He's like, wow, Matthew Hassan,
• 28:46
  me, I'm joking that no way. But no, she's she's doing great
• 28:50
  Workman and and you know, she's also a reaver as well.
• 28:54
  So she she became Shia as well a few years ago.
• 28:56
  She's now using her platform to publicly show the normalization
• 29:00
  of being sheer Is that something you ever did or ever struggled
• 29:04
  with? When you is that?
• 29:06
  Did it ever even come up in your?
• 29:08
  Great. Great question.
• 29:10
  Anthony. Joshua went to my school.
• 29:11
  That's my claim. Yeah, yeah.
• 29:12
  Yeah, what school you should go to?
• 29:14
  It's called King's Angley, it was next to Watford.
• 29:16
  And yeah. So I went to I went to a little
• 29:19
  English village. Noori Sardar went to my school.
• 29:24
  For those who know. The name rings the bells.
• 29:27
  Shout out Noori something on Noori get to.
• 29:29
  Google Every song is on Google. Yeah, bigger, that jokester
• 29:32
  said. The name does ring a bell, so I
• 29:34
  might need. To shout out.
• 29:36
  OK. I've never hid it in terms of
• 29:39
  like if you've, if you've followed, if you've had me on
• 29:42
  social media for even before the pod, like whether it's like
• 29:45
  Amazons or Shahadas, Veladas, Muharram's, you know, Arbayeen
• 29:49
  Ashura, whatever it may be, I'm always sharing things on my
• 29:51
  story and so on and so forth. Even though I was blessed to go
• 29:54
  to Iraq in 2022 for Ziara, you know, Mashallah was a great
• 29:58
  experience. Love to go again one day
• 30:00
  inshallah as well. During the early days.
• 30:04
  This is just straight up raw honesty.
• 30:06
  During the early days of my podcasting stuff in like, you
• 30:08
  know, end of 2019-2020, 2021, around that sort of COVID era, I
• 30:14
  never hid it. I never necessarily shield away
• 30:18
  from it. If it came up in conversation.
• 30:20
  Like for example, if myself and Hussein or one of the guests, we
• 30:23
  were talking about something and in my head I'm like, oh, I can
• 30:25
  make a reference to something that that is actually part of my
• 30:28
  life, then I'll make the reference.
• 30:29
  Beautiful. But I'm not going to lie, at one
• 30:33
  point there was I think the best term to use is reluctancy.
• 30:38
  And that maybe came from the fact that, and you said
• 30:41
  something earlier, I think just before the video, but I don't
• 30:43
  want to interrupt. So hum dollar, we can segue back
• 30:46
  into it now is the biggest issue that I feel like a lot of
• 30:50
  Muslims have in content creation.
• 30:52
  And then just in the mainstream media, whatever you want to call
• 30:55
  it is unfortunately without trying.
• 30:58
  If you're brown or if you're a Muslim and you make some sort of
• 31:02
  content online, especially if you're a content creator who's a
• 31:06
  Muslim. Like, for example, they could be
• 31:07
  a brown person who might not be a Muslim and they could get away
• 31:10
  with certain things. But if you're a brown person or
• 31:12
  Middle Eastern person who is a Muslim, for example, without
• 31:16
  realizing, people will naturally box you into that Muslim content
• 31:21
  creator box. That's true.
• 31:24
  Is that a bad thing? No.
• 31:26
  Is that a good thing? No.
• 31:27
  I'm not saying it's neither quite bad, but The thing is
• 31:29
  this. Like high level of.
• 31:30
  Pressure going back to I can only relate things back to my
• 31:33
  journey and if if Hussain was here, he would say the same.
• 31:35
  But it's like a lot of times people would get on get on to us
• 31:38
  about stuff like, oh, like brothers, you know, I love
• 31:41
  watching you guys, but you said so and so and I just don't feel
• 31:44
  like this that deferred and what they said in terms of their
• 31:47
  stance from maybe an Islamic lens wasn't wrong.
• 31:49
  Like they could have been making a valid point.
• 31:51
  Like maybe like, I don't know, like we made a joke and they
• 31:54
  found it inappropriate or something along those lines.
• 31:56
  And that's fair enough, right? You're not you're not always
• 31:58
  going to please everyone. But very quickly we realized
• 32:00
  that raw like we've never brand like the pod was never branded
• 32:05
  as a Muslim podcast like this is after mug rib, just the name in
• 32:09
  it. Even if I even if I didn't know
• 32:11
  who you guys were and hadn't even watched one clip or one
• 32:13
  episode, just the name after mug rib.
• 32:16
  I can tell it's something to do with Muslims or something to do
• 32:19
  with Islam, something to do with that kind of region of the
• 32:21
  world, right. But that's the biggest issue.
• 32:23
  So for for this sis for sister here to start the start the
• 32:28
  interview off with that question.
• 32:29
  Kudos, man, bigger because I feel like it's stuff like this
• 32:33
  that needs to be, as I said earlier, diluted in don't.
• 32:37
  It's not necessarily we're shoving in people's faces, but
• 32:39
  it's like none. Of we, we, we, we.
• 32:41
  Exist. We're we're just like you.
• 32:43
  The difference is maybe our beliefs aren't fully the same as
• 32:46
  yours. And that's fine because we exist
• 32:48
  and we can coexist in the same space.
• 32:50
  Do you know what I'm trying to say?
• 32:51
  Fully. Fully.
• 32:51
  No, I, I call that big time because I feel like in a way,
• 32:54
  when, when, when people who create content do something like
• 32:57
  what the sister done who humanized Shia, because a lot of
• 33:02
  people don't even know that, for example, we're human beings.
• 33:04
  I'll be honest, I'll say as as as.
• 33:06
  Yes but bro it must be like it can't be a huge number of
• 33:09
  people. You're saying bad people don't
• 33:11
  even know we're humans. No, I know what you mean.
• 33:13
  Like they do humans. They wouldn't see you as a
• 33:16
  brother they wouldn't correct let alone.
• 33:18
  I'm so glad you said this because you've got a strong
• 33:20
  opinion on this, but OK, I'll let you finish it.
• 33:22
  So it's, it's nice to see that we have some sort of
• 33:24
  representation in that world. And I, I, I think it also allows
• 33:29
  people to understand who the Shia are because a lot of times
• 33:31
  when, when we see content like this, I've seen similar content
• 33:35
  to like this, people indirectly tell them I'm Shia and speak
• 33:39
  about something else, right? And then it opens a huge
• 33:42
  conversation on the comments section.
• 33:45
  Are you Shia? What do you believe in this?
• 33:46
  Do you say you know, do you believe Imam Ali is is a lot?
• 33:50
  It it it sparks a conversation that naturally organically
• 33:54
  people are interested. What are the beliefs of the
• 33:56
  Shia? Why are you Shia?
• 33:59
  For example, who who succeeded the Prophet sallallahu alaihi
• 34:03
  wasallam So so many things. I think new conversations open
• 34:07
  up and allows people who believed in one thing to come to
• 34:11
  a moment in their life where no may maybe there are other
• 34:14
  beliefs, maybe there are other narratives when it comes to
• 34:18
  Islamic history, for example. So This is why I like content
• 34:20
  like this because I can open up the comments section and see,
• 34:24
  for example, people's eyes opening up.
• 34:27
  I can see, for example, people learning about the method about
• 34:30
  the school of a little bit. So indirectly, I'm not going to
• 34:33
  say it's a direct form of tawa, but indirectly when you do
• 34:35
  things like this, there are positives that come out from and
• 34:40
  I've seen the hat. Totally agree.
• 34:41
  And especially I also mentioned to you outside before we start
• 34:43
  this conversation, since the Iran war, there's been an
• 34:47
  increase. I don't know if you've realized
• 34:48
  this, Ahmed, but since the war on Iran before people used to
• 34:53
  say, for example, Shiazza Qafar, you know, she has the whole 9
• 34:58
  yards all used to, right? But now people are asking who
• 35:02
  OK, who are the Shia? Why do you believe in XY said?
• 35:06
  Do you cast the Sahaba? Do you like these questions are
• 35:09
  no longer getting attacked on, rather people want to get
• 35:13
  answers on? OK.
• 35:15
  So the whole game is changing now for the Shia world on the
• 35:19
  online presence and I think it's a time where we we need content
• 35:22
  creators, we need positive influence to represent the
• 35:26
  school of athletes, Bates and the way they deserve to be
• 35:28
  represented. The sorry, did you want to?
• 35:31
  Not go over bro. This is I don't even know what
• 35:34
  you guys will think of this. This is how not controversial,
• 35:37
  but this is how like heavy stance.
• 35:39
  To be controversy for a long time.
• 35:41
  We love that. We love that.
• 35:42
  You know what I'm saying as much as I agree with what you're
• 35:45
  saying, there's this, there's this large part of me, as you
• 35:49
  were saying, there's this voice the back of my head saying why
• 35:53
  do we need to justify, bro? Why?
• 35:56
  Why do we need to explain these things?
• 36:00
  I'm not saying if someone asked you a genuine question, let's
• 36:02
  say one of your colleagues or one of your bedrooms or someone
• 36:04
  said, yo, bro, I know it's in the prayer room that day you
• 36:06
  were play, you were praying with that stone thing.
• 36:08
  Are you sure? Yeah, bro, I'm sure.
• 36:10
  OK. Can I ask you a question?
• 36:12
  That's a different thing. I'm talking in the masses that,
• 36:14
  for example, if I do a day in the Life vlog, which is the type
• 36:18
  of content I like to do sometimes, right?
• 36:20
  And if I'm at the office or if I'm at home or whatever, if I'm
• 36:23
  going into the prayer room and you see me put down my toolbar
• 36:26
  and someone says something like, you know, cookie, whatever, I'm
• 36:28
  like, yeah, yeah, cool. Like, first of all, I probably
• 36:30
  won't even respond. But if like someone asked me
• 36:34
  something the other day, I just responded back with Google.
• 36:36
  Like, I know I don't mean to be rude.
• 36:38
  I'm not trying to be funny, but like, I'm not your.
• 36:42
  Like puppet, you don't need. I don't like there's no, there's
• 36:45
  no incumbents upon you to have to.
• 36:47
  Exactly, exactly. We're not we're not sat in a
• 36:49
  courtroom. You're not a judge.
• 36:51
  Like I'm not obliged to answer your questions.
• 36:53
  It's it's 2026. Like if you if you aren't
• 36:56
  educated on something, again, I'm not saying if someone comes
• 36:58
  to you with in in a, in a mature and empathetic approach and just
• 37:02
  a normal genuine question. I'm not saying like be rude
• 37:04
  towards that type of person, but like I've made videos in the
• 37:07
  past where I've spoken about stuff and the videos gone viral
• 37:10
  and I've got literally hundreds and hundreds of comments asking
• 37:13
  me like so many rhetorical silly questions and like loaded
• 37:16
  questions. It's like bro, first of all,
• 37:19
  your intention isn't even right with how you've asked me the
• 37:21
  question. But second of all, like with all
• 37:23
  due respect, who on earth are you to ask?
• 37:27
  Like is it again, are we in a courtroom?
• 37:29
  Are you a judge? Like am I obliged?
• 37:31
  Like listen, if you think I'm good for her, cool, If you think
• 37:34
  I'm praying wrong, cool. If you think she has this, bro,
• 37:38
  I genuinely don't care like, because, because at the end of
• 37:41
  the day, the, the way I practice my religion has always taught me
• 37:45
  to focus on myself. And like, you know, being, being
• 37:49
  so focused on trying to perfect myself and, and, and be the best
• 37:53
  version of myself that if you've got time to be pointing fingers
• 37:56
  at other of your, your fellow Muslim brothers and sisters,
• 37:59
  then with all due respect, and I look at the camera and say this,
• 38:02
  that shows more about your clock, your upbringing and your
• 38:04
  character compared to the people that you're pointing fingers at.
• 38:08
  So as much as I sorry, the last thing I say, I know you wanted
• 38:10
  to say something. The last thing I say is I know
• 38:12
  because I know bro, trust me. We're here for.
• 38:15
  You but I would say as much as I think it's great to like like
• 38:19
  the example we just had in terms of representation.
• 38:22
  And you're saying about this is a great opportunity to say more
• 38:26
  sheer brothers and sisters should get prominent in the in
• 38:28
  the, in the, you know, just just in the public eye, whether
• 38:30
  that's content creation, podcasting, influencing,
• 38:33
  presenting, whatever it may be. But ultimately I just want to
• 38:38
  just send this specific sentence to my Shia brothers and sisters
• 38:42
  watching this right now. I'm going to look there rather
• 38:43
  than you guys for just a moment. It's like be yourself, have your
• 38:47
  beliefs, but please, my my brothers, my sisters, like even
• 38:50
  for a split second, take it from me, your brother Hadir Ali right
• 38:54
  now, like don't feel obliged to justify yourself like you are
• 38:59
  who you are. You believe what you believe and
• 39:01
  that should just be the end of it.
• 39:02
  Don't feel like you need to tread and step on egg shells
• 39:05
  because Oh my God, my friend who's not from the same school
• 39:08
  of thought, they might judge me. Bro, if they're going to judge
• 39:10
  you, they're going to judge you. If you want to have that
• 39:12
  conversation in a positive and a mature way.
• 39:14
  I've had that many times with friends and it's been healthy
• 39:17
  conversations, no problem. But don't beat yourself up.
• 39:21
  Excuse the pun. I know it's a Shia podcast.
• 39:22
  You know what I'm trying to say? Don't.
• 39:26
  Don't. He's not already.
• 39:28
  He started already. Yeah, literally.
• 39:31
  Don't beat yourself up about it. Like, say what you can, do what
• 39:34
  you can, but just don't feel there's an onus on you.
• 39:37
  I agree with that. Because I'm the Shia guy that's
• 39:38
  reviewing a burger spot. Now I've got to speak about
• 39:41
  this. I'm reviewing a smash Patty,
• 39:44
  man. I'm not talking about Sahih
• 39:45
  Bukhari in the comment section. Now it's it's gone left for it's
• 39:48
  gone left. Let me let me see a couple.
• 39:50
  So firstly, yeah, I think that. Sorry if that was that.
• 39:53
  No, no, no, I needed to hear that man.
• 39:55
  Look, firstly post like we've had a lot of large scale sheer,
• 40:00
  like I don't say influences, let's let's just call them like
• 40:03
  public figures who have been so publicly known to be sheer in
• 40:07
  the last few years. OK.
• 40:09
  So look, obviously in the last year we've seen the likes of.
• 40:13
  Zora Mamdani goes without saying.
• 40:15
  Publicly known to be Shia, publicly doesn't care about what
• 40:19
  people think about his religion, his religious beliefs.
• 40:21
  His mum's a Hindu, his dad's a cordial Muslim.
• 40:23
  Shia 12. He's been seen praying like a
• 40:26
  Shia, he's been seen praying like a Sunni.
• 40:28
  But the point being, he goes to different senses, he goes to
• 40:31
  different mosques. He says, bro, take it, leave it.
• 40:33
  What's? That mean a win is the win.
• 40:35
  A win is the win. Forget me.
• 40:36
  A win is the win. Yeah.
• 40:38
  Anyway, we take what we can get. And there's others, like for
• 40:40
  example, obviously Matthew Hassan.
• 40:42
  We. Can I say he's the big love?
• 40:44
  He's the goat man. Big love to Mehdi, obviously he
• 40:47
  publicly shows and shares that he share.
• 40:49
  He doesn't care. Of course, he doesn't affect his
• 40:52
  his professional work, his journalistic work and is the
• 40:54
  integrity that comes with his journalism as well.
• 40:57
  And then there's others. We see footballers 2-3 weeks ago
• 40:59
  as well on the podcast, we had our Brother Ali Al Hamadi, who
• 41:02
  of course going to the World Cup #9 for a rush or the the winning
• 41:05
  goal for his country to get into the World Cup.
• 41:07
  He's now probably footballer. Like there are people who are
• 41:10
  publicly appearing on podcasts like Ars, the Mughedem or
• 41:13
  sharing on their stories or for example, during Muharram or
• 41:18
  Inshallah Mavan or in any other time of the year, they will
• 41:21
  share hadith from Middlemont Manin or Imam Salah Alayhi
• 41:24
  Salam. Or for example, they're showing
• 41:26
  something from Mamad Hussein. They're showing a website which
• 41:29
  which directs people towards the story of Imam Hussein.
• 41:32
  The opportunity is there. People have a problem with it
• 41:34
  like you said, very rightly. So who cares, Bob?
• 41:37
  There are there's enough sources of information and people will
• 41:40
  be able to find those. I saw that.
• 41:42
  I don't know if you saw that video that kind of went viral
• 41:44
  like a week or two ago me and said, Ali, we're talking about
• 41:47
  of this of the Sunni Sheikh. And he was talking, a guy was
• 41:51
  asking. He was like, so it wasn't Imam
• 41:53
  Ali the the rightful successor and the and the Sherk was like,
• 41:57
  yeah, in the sense some people believe he was because he was
• 42:00
  the smartest, the most righteous, the most pious and
• 42:03
  the closest to the Prophet. Yeah, this video rings a bell.
• 42:05
  He's like, but doesn't that then qualify him if he's the most
• 42:08
  righteous, the most pious? And the Sherk was like, but
• 42:11
  being the worst righteous doesn't mean you're a leader.
• 42:13
  And what then ends up happening is you have people in the
• 42:17
  comment section who will. And I think This is why I said
• 42:21
  I'm going to build my roof. Nahen and Monka encourage,
• 42:24
  educate people respectfully in the comments section if you're
• 42:26
  going to do it. But at the same time, bro, like
• 42:29
  you, there is a responsibility on all of us when we share
• 42:32
  content, especially for us on a weekly basis.
• 42:35
  We've done 2300 productions on aftermarket Abdullah, like
• 42:39
  hundreds of hours worth of footage talking about religion.
• 42:43
  We, we have done some very contentious conversations over
• 42:47
  the years. You have to research what you're
• 42:50
  talking about, especially with matters of religion, of course.
• 42:53
  Yeah, there's sensitivities there.
• 42:54
  You need to know what minefield you're walking into before you
• 42:58
  even have the conversation, let alone share it online.
• 43:01
  So there has to be like that maturity and also that
• 43:05
  confidence that you can go out, you can be yourself, You can
• 43:08
  proudly be share whether or whether or not you're doing
• 43:10
  assignment content and like people will have to hold it
• 43:13
  down. Do you know what I?
• 43:14
  Mean no Agreed. Go 100% man.
• 43:17
  No, I'm I'm just having thoughts like it because I'm just trying
• 43:20
  to think I need if if someone was to ask me literally I want
• 43:25
  to become a content like someone's asking me a question.
• 43:27
  I want to become a content creator as a Shia.
• 43:29
  Would you advice me? I'm just trying to think like
• 43:31
  how would how would I advise them?
• 43:33
  How would you advise them if I didn't?
• 43:34
  Ask you if someone said I want to be a content creator but as a
• 43:37
  Shia as a. Shia.
• 43:41
  So am I, Am I? I'm a Shia.
• 43:43
  Yeah, I think they want to do a. Yeah, so they want to make
• 43:46
  content based on their Shia beliefs.
• 43:48
  But nothing got to do, for example, OK, let's let's do dawa
• 43:51
  or something. Just don't want to trace
• 43:53
  content. You see, for example, there's
• 43:54
  this rise of people reacting to certain videos like the video
• 43:57
  Ahmed just mentioned now. Yeah, it's become the talk of
• 44:00
  the whole some social media recently.
• 44:03
  As a Shia, someone wants to react to that, but they stop
• 44:05
  themselves. Should I should I know?
• 44:06
  Oh. OK, like.
• 44:07
  How should they approach it? So.
• 44:09
  Because you have experience means you.
• 44:11
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or comment things on you for
• 44:13
  sure, for sure you've had your reactions, you've had your fair
• 44:15
  share in this field like. So I guess it goes back to a
• 44:17
  clock, bro. Like forget Suni, forget Shi.
• 44:19
  I forget all of that for a second.
• 44:20
  Like, let's just look at the the rule.
• 44:23
  I mean, of course, he sent many messages to us through his, you
• 44:29
  know, during his lifetime and through, you know, our beloved
• 44:31
  imams and so on and so forth. But ultimately, in my opinion
• 44:35
  anyways, please do correct me if I'm wrong.
• 44:37
  You know, his main thing was about being a good person,
• 44:39
  upholding yourself with a clock and mannerism.
• 44:41
  So right off that bat, I'd say if someone wants to make that
• 44:45
  type of content, first of all, kudos, no, no problem.
• 44:49
  Do do your thing. But of course, do it in a way
• 44:51
  where you're upholding yourself. Because a lot of people forget
• 44:55
  that they think the Internet is in real life.
• 44:57
  But in the era that we're living in now, the Internet digital
• 45:01
  footprint is very real. So there's content creators who
• 45:04
  go viral for doing silly things and, you know, pranking and, you
• 45:08
  know, just just being a nuisance.
• 45:09
  And that if that's your brand and that's the image you want to
• 45:11
  be known for, then fair enough. But if someone like a young
• 45:14
  brother or young sister, someone asked this type of question that
• 45:16
  you just asked me, I would say first of all, once you've made
• 45:20
  the decision, then go into the deep end.
• 45:23
  Don't, don't be like, you know, half hearted about it.
• 45:26
  If you're going to, if you're going to do it, do it properly.
• 45:28
  Yeah. And then #2 you know, at the
• 45:31
  back of that would also be when you do do it, you know, don't
• 45:35
  speak from a place of like us, us, US versus you.
• 45:38
  You. Yeah.
• 45:39
  Like, for example, you could just just make sure that you're
• 45:42
  speaking in a way where your mannerisms and, and you know,
• 45:45
  the your reference points, for example, like a great example
• 45:48
  would be is if you're trying to prove a point, don't just use
• 45:51
  sources from your texts. Also find relevant sources from
• 45:56
  maybe other schools of thoughts. So then there's opposing
• 45:59
  opinions in terms of like, OK, well, this isn't just coming
• 46:01
  from us because, for example, our sixth film Mammals after
• 46:04
  Sadiq al Islam said this. No, no, he said that.
• 46:06
  But in this book, on this page, in this verse, it's also in your
• 46:10
  book. So maybe we can have a dialogue
• 46:13
  after this video about, OK, where's the, where's the common
• 46:16
  ground? And do you know what I'm trying
• 46:18
  to say? So I would say approach you
• 46:19
  from. There's there's just on that
• 46:21
  exact point, yeah, I think there's a really nice thing to
• 46:24
  share. Well, well, I mean, look and
• 46:27
  like adding on to that because there's a solid pieces of
• 46:30
  advice, but I feel like firstly, when you're going to do content
• 46:34
  in the Islamic media field, I I strongly believe that we need
• 46:38
  more of it. The more, the better us all
• 46:39
  towards the cause of the Imam, all of us as what Meneen our
• 46:43
  goal should be to create content with the vision that it feeds
• 46:46
  into the the mission of Imam Mehti Arjalata Allah.
• 46:49
  That should be part of our goal. We have to factor that into our
• 46:52
  strategy. We have to be able to utilize
• 46:55
  the skills we know from living in the West, education or
• 46:58
  integration into global society here, and be able to bring that
• 47:01
  to the Islamic media field. There's two hadith which come to
• 47:05
  mind, One from Imam Salah Alayhi Salam, where he says Ahiya
• 47:08
  Amarana, where he says revive our affairs and teach it to the
• 47:10
  people. Another one from Ahmedabad,
• 47:12
  Alayhi Salaam, where he says teach, teach the people, show
• 47:17
  the people our words and we'll do the rest.
• 47:20
  They are the beta aim Salam, show the people our words and
• 47:23
  we'll do the rest. I'm paraphrasing what the Imam
• 47:24
  said in the sense of the beauty of our tradition is that we
• 47:29
  believe that there is so much to gain from it from a human level,
• 47:32
  but also from a theological and a spiritual level.
• 47:35
  There's naughty within it and there's a natural inclination
• 47:37
  that your fiddler has towards godliness.
• 47:40
  So the goodness and the godliness that comes from what
• 47:43
  we believe we have been learned from, from generations passed
• 47:47
  down, is that we, we, we naturally feel people should be
• 47:51
  inclined towards it. But what we hold back on is a,
• 47:56
  our standard of production is not good enough in many cases.
• 48:00
  So Shia content creators, Muslim content creators, we have to
• 48:04
  level up. So if you're going to make a
• 48:06
  competitor to after Magleb, be my guest.
• 48:09
  Go make the competition, bro. We've seen shots fired.
• 48:13
  No, no shots fired. Everyone's working towards the
• 48:15
  same 'cause, right? Ultimately, like I said, we're
• 48:17
  working towards the cause of the Imam, but make sure that content
• 48:21
  A doesn't overlap and impede on someone elses preexisting work.
• 48:24
  So for example, I'll give an example like there are
• 48:27
  specialists in the fields which I want to get on to the podcast
• 48:31
  and I know that they are a specialist in field X, right?
• 48:35
  Let them do their thing, like it, support it, platform them
• 48:39
  however you want, as long as you believe in what they're doing.
• 48:41
  Yeah, but it's better to have all focus on and, and reach the
• 48:46
  highest number of people through maximum exposure through key
• 48:49
  platforms which will reach more people rather than having let's
• 48:52
  say 30 platforms which reach a lower number of people, each
• 48:57
  less than a collective. And my humble opinion.
• 48:59
  And secondly, the standard of production should be as good as,
• 49:03
  if not better than anything you see in the mainstream, bro.
• 49:05
  Like for example, you're editing your camera quality.
• 49:08
  I get it. There's things we have like, for
• 49:10
  example, in our community restricted for funds and all of
• 49:12
  that, but that's something I passionately believe in that
• 49:16
  Hamdullah. We have like a plethora of
• 49:18
  people. We don't have any shortage of
• 49:19
  people who've worked. So much talent in our community,
• 49:22
  inside our embargoes, at our doorstep.
• 49:23
  Yeah, we don't realize how much talent there is here.
• 49:25
  We do it for Headman like you said, like this is Fee Sibila.
• 49:28
  Like we will serve and we'll support Fee Sibila.
• 49:31
  We get DMS probably once a week from like mosque committees, AV
• 49:37
  teams, podcasts around the world.
• 49:40
  There's I know two brothers, one in France, one in the
• 49:43
  Netherlands who have started podcasts in French and Dutch on
• 49:46
  the back of aftermath of you know what I mean.
• 49:49
  So people who are doing bit smart a lot around the world.
• 49:52
  But I'm sure you have an opinion on that as.
• 49:54
  Well, no, I agree. There's nothing that I think I
• 49:56
  can add to that. You said it beautifully, man,
• 49:58
  and eloquently, because that's the reason why we're here.
• 50:00
  That's the reason we do. What we do right?
• 50:02
  Yeah, man. Is that we want to serve the
• 50:04
  adult bait, but we want to inspire people.
• 50:06
  We want to encourage people Austin to do what we're doing on
• 50:09
  a bigger scale. And not even maybe by yourself.
• 50:12
  No, join us. Join the mission so that we can
• 50:14
  grow like Aftermath together and share a line.
• 50:16
  You can do that by visiting aftermath.com/donates.
• 50:21
  You were going to say something. Yeah, I was going to say
• 50:23
  something. Yeah, I also want to say because
• 50:27
  content creation obviously, especially for from the from the
• 50:30
  lens of like sisters, a lot of a lot of sisters might have their
• 50:32
  talents and their voices and so on and so forth.
• 50:34
  But you know, personal reasons they might be married family,
• 50:37
  you know, some, you know, it's easier for for the brothers to
• 50:40
  get on camera than it is from sisters.
• 50:42
  But what I'm about to say applies to both.
• 50:44
  Don't feel that content creation should be the only Ave. that you
• 50:50
  feel should be utilized to add value to our community or
• 50:55
  communities I should say. For example, if you're
• 50:59
  successful in like the medical field, maybe find ways to
• 51:03
  collaborate with your local Amanbarga to maybe you know,
• 51:06
  once a year run some sort of, you know, like.
• 51:10
  Health check INS, all that stuff.
• 51:11
  Not just that, but I'm more like, you know, like workshop
• 51:14
  career panels, like Q&A seminars.
• 51:17
  If, if, if, for example, you know, you're someone in like
• 51:21
  you've got a sports football coaching background, maybe.
• 51:24
  Okay, ask yourself, you know, what can my, can I dedicate 2-3
• 51:27
  hours every weekend and start a little boys football club to get
• 51:31
  the, to get the brothers together for not only exercise
• 51:34
  and, and, you know, benefiting their health from that
• 51:36
  perspective, but also, but in that sense of community.
• 51:38
  Like not everything needs to be on camera and not everything
• 51:41
  needs to be so loud. Like a small contribution to the
• 51:44
  community. Like for example, let's say I
• 51:46
  don't know you're, you're a law graduate and you're seeing
• 51:49
  success in your, in your legal field.
• 51:50
  Now, for example, maybe you could provide, I don't know,
• 51:54
  this is just a random example. Like you could provide like a
• 51:56
  pro bono legal service every, like every second Friday of the
• 52:00
  month from from 7:00 to 9:00 PM where, you know, the local
• 52:06
  community can come to you for legal, you know, or you could
• 52:08
  have like a like a e-mail that it gets sent out where anyone
• 52:11
  who may have legal. I'm just giving examples right
• 52:13
  now because we all add value in different ways.
• 52:16
  So I think like in terms of the community in general, like I
• 52:19
  said, we've got so much talent at our doorstep and I think gone
• 52:24
  are the days now where we feel reluctant to do certain things.
• 52:26
  You know, I've met some of the most incredible, incredibly,
• 52:29
  incredibly talented people who are also from our school of
• 52:32
  thought, You know, whether that's from a from, you know,
• 52:35
  like I said, sports, science, doctors, business people, the
• 52:38
  list goes on and on. We've got so much going on.
• 52:41
  There's so there's so many people thriving in our
• 52:42
  community. Masha'allah me, Allah, give us
• 52:44
  more me Allah give everyone more watching this.
• 52:46
  How do we now maybe utilize that in terms of, for example, we're
• 52:49
  podcasting right now, we're content creating right now.
• 52:52
  Can we like, for example, can us three, maybe one day run a
• 52:54
  workshop for our young brothers and sisters who maybe want to
• 52:57
  start podcasting at a side hustle, run a 2-3 day, you know,
• 53:02
  weekend workshop or something like that?
• 53:03
  Do you know what I'm trying to say?
• 53:05
  Like I think we can brainstorm and do things in that way as
• 53:07
  well to serve the community. Can I ask you a question for
• 53:09
  sure. I know we're coming towards the
• 53:10
  end of that and part of the discussion, but when we see kind
• 53:15
  of a lot of the atrocities in the world around us, so for
• 53:17
  example, Mutmaneen Muslims, Shia or Sunni or any kind of
• 53:22
  population. And we've seen obviously the
• 53:24
  war, especially in the last few months, really, really heating
• 53:30
  up. And a lot of communities in the
• 53:32
  East and the West are feeling really hard done by.
• 53:37
  I think for us, although we're physically distant, our hearts
• 53:40
  are there, right? So we feel the sense of
• 53:42
  obligation to do something. And in the same way you're
• 53:46
  saying it doesn't have to be content creation.
• 53:48
  So we've seen, for example, collections by organizations
• 53:50
  that are sending medical aid to for example, to Lebanon and
• 53:54
  other countries. We've seen things like obviously
• 53:56
  charity hikes. We've seen all sorts of bits and
• 53:59
  pieces. Do our Knights do our Lithagore
• 54:02
  and do our do our Kameen and do our tour.
• 54:04
  So specific prayers and spiritualities that's kind of
• 54:08
  directed towards that. When it comes to the field of
• 54:10
  content creation. I was speaking to to a friend of
• 54:13
  mine not too long ago who told me he was like, do you know
• 54:17
  what? Although I'm in a certain field
• 54:20
  which is outside of the Islamic world or the political world, he
• 54:24
  said. I still have a responsibility to
• 54:26
  use my platform to speak up for human justice and for human
• 54:30
  rights, for human dignity. Do you feel like that's
• 54:34
  something which is necessary for all of us, regardless of your
• 54:39
  following, even for everyday individuals like me and others
• 54:43
  who may not have a huge following, but to be able to use
• 54:47
  your platforms for a cause of justice?
• 54:53
  Tough question because both sides are valid.
• 54:58
  If for example, you're someone who's evidently a Muslim, you've
• 55:02
  got a large following, you're a YouTube, you're an influencer,
• 55:05
  you're a business mogul or whatever it may be, and you know
• 55:08
  that you have like a massive reach.
• 55:11
  Yeah. Then if if you're silent during,
• 55:13
  for example, the genocide that's happening in Palestine and
• 55:16
  what's happening to our brothers and sisters in Iran or Lebanon
• 55:18
  and so on and so forth, then that is a reflection of you.
• 55:23
  You, I'm not saying you're a bad person.
• 55:25
  That that is a reflection of like, whoa, this guy or this
• 55:28
  girl's got X amount of followers and this they've said it's
• 55:31
  quiet. But then this is where it gets a
• 55:33
  bit techy. This is where it gets a bit like
• 55:34
  of a Gray area. Because on the other hand, it's
• 55:36
  like, where's the rule book? Is it like, I'll be obliged?
• 55:41
  Where is it written that someone has to do something?
• 55:44
  Like for example, you could be someone with a massive following
• 55:47
  who didn't share anything on your story but behind the scenes
• 55:50
  you might have donated like 50 grand to a charity.
• 55:52
  You have done something mashallah amazing like that.
• 55:55
  So just because you might not have been loud about it, it
• 55:57
  doesn't mean that you didn't have an impact on the on the
• 55:59
  given situation. Me personally, just how I am as
• 56:03
  a character as you guys have realized today, as the audience
• 56:05
  have realized today, I'm a very opinionated person.
• 56:07
  I'm very loud in my character in that sense.
• 56:09
  Like I don't hold back. If I've got an opinion, I'll
• 56:10
  say, of course, I'll try to say it as nicely and politely as I
• 56:13
  can, of course, without treading on anyone's toes.
• 56:15
  But ultimately, like even today, I thought about for a little
• 56:19
  while is I actually made a very long LinkedIn post for the first
• 56:22
  time in my life about the recent right wing rally that took place
• 56:26
  this weekend. You know, the whole Tommy
• 56:27
  Robinson reunite the Kingdom and all that nonsense that was going
• 56:30
  on because let's be real, bro, like it is blatantly in anti
• 56:34
  Islamic and Islamophobic and we as Muslims living in the UK
• 56:38
  because yeah, I'm a proud Muslim, but I'm also a proud a
• 56:40
  proud British. You know, I'm trying to say I'm
• 56:41
  British as well. So do you know, I'm trying to
• 56:43
  say like I felt like I'm obliged to share that opinion.
• 56:46
  So what I would say is if you have an audience, especially of
• 56:50
  course, in my opinion, you'd be silly to not utilize that that
• 56:54
  reach. But at the end of the day, some
• 56:57
  people see their presence online.
• 56:59
  Let's say someone's a massive influencer.
• 57:01
  They might see that solely and only for a corporate business
• 57:04
  purpose. And if anything outside that
• 57:07
  realm doesn't fall within the is this helping me secure the bag?
• 57:12
  Then I don't know if I can say they're a bad person.
• 57:14
  But again, it might, you know, don't be surprised if people
• 57:17
  will raise an eyebrow and maybe unfollow you or think you're a
• 57:20
  bit of a loser for doing that. That's just my personal opinion,
• 57:23
  you know what I'm saying? We've seen that I not this
• 57:25
  conversation now that you just, you know, sparked here, Ahmed,
• 57:28
  is that I remember like during the midst of the whole, you
• 57:31
  know, the, the genocide that was taking place in Gaza is that
• 57:36
  this conversation was happening with everyone be online or even
• 57:39
  like in private gatherings where there was in the mosque friend
• 57:42
  circles. People like, why is this person,
• 57:44
  you know, he's got like 150,000 followers.
• 57:47
  A lot of people listen to him. Why is he not saying anything
• 57:49
  about Palestine like this conversation was happening?
• 57:51
  And and one thing that I understood from this entire
• 57:54
  thing is that I don't know how I don't think people want to use
• 57:58
  sometimes their personal platforms to discuss things
• 58:02
  that's happening around the world because they feel like
• 58:05
  it's not my responsibility. I don't know if it's right or
• 58:08
  wrong depending on the lens that they're giving.
• 58:10
  But I would say is that the least you can do is acknowledge
• 58:14
  something's happening, right? The least you can do is give
• 58:16
  voice to the voiceless indirectly.
• 58:18
  If you don't want to be direct, you don't want to mention, for
• 58:20
  example, the illegal state of Israel by name.
• 58:23
  Just say, for example, this has taken place against innocent
• 58:27
  lives, innocent children. Are being.
• 58:28
  You don't have the name drop. You don't.
• 58:29
  Have the name drop. You don't have the name drop
• 58:31
  here. There are ways where you can be
• 58:33
  a positive voice. So humanity without being
• 58:37
  direct. Yeah.
• 58:39
  And everyone will appreciate it. Yeah.
• 58:42
  I agree. Totally agree. 100% no.
• 58:44
  There's. There's also two other ideas
• 58:46
  that come to mind. The 1st is well, obviously like
• 58:49
  pretext. Yeah, in my humble opinion,
• 58:52
  again like you, I'm I'm opinionated as well.
• 58:54
  Well, we love. Yeah, say that Ali knows.
• 58:56
  I need to share that WhatsApp groups what help?
• 58:59
  Me anyway, no, I feel like look like we cannot call ourselves
• 59:05
  hosseini. We're entering mahalram without
• 59:07
  feeling like there is an obligation to do something.
• 59:10
  Whether you choose to do that publicly or privately, like you
• 59:14
  said, ultimately your choice. There's hadith which says give
• 59:18
  with your right hand such that your left hand does not know, so
• 59:20
  there should be a level of of privacy that comes with it.
• 59:23
  However, saying that, there's also, in my humble opinion, a
• 59:26
  moral obligation to at the bare minimum, if not advocate for A
• 59:31
  cause publicly. Don't feed into a narrative
• 59:34
  which harms your community or other communities using your
• 59:37
  platform knowingly or unknowingly.
• 59:39
  For example, things like boycotts, you know, brands, all
• 59:43
  of those kind of things. Being conscious of who you're
• 59:45
  working with. There's a lot of podcasts I know
• 59:48
  who have turned down brand deals as with companies that are like,
• 59:53
  you know, for example, companies that are funding the genocide,
• 59:56
  you're supporting the, the opposition armies or whatever.
• 1:00:00
  That's the first thing. Secondly, being aware.
• 1:00:02
  An army to be honest, sorry bro, couldn't even call them.
• 1:00:04
  An army couldn't even call. The terrorists.
• 1:00:06
  Honestly 100% but. Addition to that as well, you
• 1:00:10
  can also be like journalistically accurate and at
• 1:00:13
  the same time keep yourself out of contention by asking
• 1:00:16
  questions. Look at Muhammad Salah for
• 1:00:17
  example. I know Muhammad Salah footballer
• 1:00:19
  gets so much hate for how little he talks about Palestine.
• 1:00:23
  Fair play. I get that I I do understand
• 1:00:26
  like Laminia Mao, who's currently arguably the best
• 1:00:28
  player in the world. Last week Barcelona won the
• 1:00:31
  league. He got on the bus and he saw a
• 1:00:33
  guy with a Palestine flag. He said give it to me.
• 1:00:36
  Waving it left he. Went viral.
• 1:00:37
  Yeah, man, good, fair enough man, good place.
• 1:00:40
  But what Muhammad Salah did was interesting.
• 1:00:42
  I think it was UNHCR or someone tweeted a few months ago saying
• 1:00:47
  a specific footballer died in Gaza.
• 1:00:51
  Muhammad Salah replied to the two saying how did he die?
• 1:00:54
  That's all he said he like dropped a bombshell, might drop,
• 1:00:58
  that's all he said. He asked how did he die and like
• 1:01:01
  obviously the whole world erupted when he said that.
• 1:01:03
  Because we all know how. We all know how he asked the
• 1:01:06
  question. He's the guy with, you know,
• 1:01:07
  hundreds of millions of followers.
• 1:01:09
  All I'm saying is there are times and places where you can
• 1:01:12
  ask questions. I remember, sorry, last thing in
• 1:01:15
  2019 around the general election time, I did a podcast with an MP
• 1:01:24
  at the time who's a Tory MP, far right in the sense of like
• 1:01:30
  politically, not so much in terms of like socially far
• 1:01:32
  right. Anyway, the guy was known to be
• 1:01:35
  like very Islamophobic in terms of policy and his voting record.
• 1:01:39
  I did a podcast with him kind of like grilled and roasted him
• 1:01:42
  hard on that, which I loved. And then a month, a week later,
• 1:01:45
  he did a hustings. So basically him and the other
• 1:01:48
  candidates in that in that constituency did a public meet
• 1:01:53
  up or whatever. I stood up, I asked my questions
• 1:01:55
  and I grilled him. But I, I, I I called him out for
• 1:01:59
  his Islamophobia. I saw his racism.
• 1:02:02
  Have you seen it? Yeah.
• 1:02:02
  It went like. Show me the sub tippies.
• 1:02:04
  I don't think I've seen it. Yeah, I'll send it to you later.
• 1:02:06
  Someone recorded me. I stood up and asked a question
• 1:02:09
  and I basically read out tweets he had put out.
• 1:02:11
  I read out things from his voting record.
• 1:02:13
  Just, you know, the way. For example, a lot of
• 1:02:14
  investigative journalists do it like Loki and others as well.
• 1:02:18
  They smash it. So they'll they'll read you
• 1:02:20
  facts and figures. You paint the picture yourself,
• 1:02:22
  man. You read between the lines.
• 1:02:24
  That's on you and it. But ultimately you're using
• 1:02:27
  facts and figures to tell a story.
• 1:02:28
  That sounds like we can, we can be smart with it, man.
• 1:02:31
  I really believe that. I wanted to add one more thing.
• 1:02:33
  Are we good for time, by the way?
• 1:02:34
  Yeah, good for time. Just let me know if it's, if
• 1:02:36
  it's so in terms of influences and creators in general who may
• 1:02:42
  have a massive audience but may be afraid to speak about, for
• 1:02:47
  example, what's happening in Palestine, Lebanon, Iran, so on
• 1:02:49
  and so forth. They might want to speak about
• 1:02:52
  it, but they're reluctant to due to brand deals and so on and so
• 1:02:54
  forth. What I'll say is this is
• 1:02:56
  obviously only going to apply to you if you're a Muslim.
• 1:02:58
  If, if the person watching this right now is a Muslim, of
• 1:03:00
  course, you don't need to worry about losing a brand deal
• 1:03:04
  because ultimately your is it will come from a last one of a
• 1:03:06
  dollar. So, and that brings me on to a
• 1:03:09
  point now, as you guys know and as the audience know, I may know
• 1:03:12
  that obviously I haven't really podcasted myself for a couple of
• 1:03:14
  years now. And C1 day, we'll make a return
• 1:03:17
  with you. Otherwise, let's see how it
• 1:03:18
  goes. But for now, we're we're, we're
• 1:03:20
  on an extended sabbatical right now, right?
• 1:03:22
  And just before I like the last kind of couple episodes, I
• 1:03:27
  actually, I actually counselled a, a brand partnership with a
• 1:03:32
  particular company because I found out, shout out to the
• 1:03:36
  supporters as in who were watching my pod at the time.
• 1:03:39
  One of my supporters let me know that the company that I was
• 1:03:42
  promoting actually offered their service for free to the soldiers
• 1:03:48
  from the occupation forces. And then as soon as I found that
• 1:03:53
  out when my, when my contract was coming to an end, because
• 1:03:56
  obviously at that point when I found out I had signed a
• 1:03:59
  contract. So I was like, OK, I've only got
• 1:04:01
  one or two more episodes left and then that contract will
• 1:04:03
  finish. And then I was just like, cool.
• 1:04:05
  And then the agency that I was liaising with was actually based
• 1:04:08
  in the US. So I don't know how they found
• 1:04:10
  me put big upright. And I'm not going to say
• 1:04:12
  numbers, but I'll ham the love for given the the the size of
• 1:04:16
  content created that I am like I'm not, Oh, I called myself a
• 1:04:19
  content creator. Hey, we caught him out.
• 1:04:21
  We caught him out. Given the size of the creator
• 1:04:24
  that that I was at the time in terms of like I didn't have the
• 1:04:27
  biggest following in the world, but it was it was OK, right?
• 1:04:30
  And it was a decent bag, boys, I'm not gonna lie to you.
• 1:04:32
  Was it was it was it wasn't life changing money, but it was it
• 1:04:35
  was a healthy like a number that would be definitely healthy for
• 1:04:39
  all of us in this room right now.
• 1:04:41
  And they tried to renew it. I said apologies.
• 1:04:45
  Why am I lying? I didn't say apologies.
• 1:04:47
  I said hi. Thank you so much for the
• 1:04:49
  opportunity. It's been great working with you
• 1:04:50
  guys. But I, I, if there's other
• 1:04:53
  people you want to put forward my way in terms of organizations
• 1:04:56
  and companies and brand partnerships and so be it.
• 1:04:59
  But with this company in particular, without going into
• 1:05:02
  too much depth and too much back and forth, but I cannot as an
• 1:05:05
  individual, like my moral compass will not allow me to
• 1:05:09
  represent a brand that is offering free services to, you
• 1:05:14
  know, essentially a people. I can't even say a country.
• 1:05:18
  Would you say so? Child killers.
• 1:05:20
  Yeah, you know, exactly. Child killers literally were
• 1:05:24
  literally. And you're you're you're gauging
• 1:05:28
  it as we're supporting them during this difficult time,
• 1:05:31
  literally like starving innocent kids.
• 1:05:33
  And I'm supposed to represent that brand just for a few 1000
• 1:05:37
  like you having a laugh, mate. You know what?
• 1:05:39
  I'm saying so I can't put that the hard thing.
• 1:05:41
  And the agency, by the way, can I say that agency never reached
• 1:05:44
  out to me again because like I said, they're based in the US,
• 1:05:46
  so they probably had their own narratives.
• 1:05:48
  But it is what it is, man. That money comes and goes, but
• 1:05:50
  morals will never come. And.
• 1:05:51
  Morals will be, yeah. No, it wasn't.
• 1:05:53
  It wasn't. Yeah, I.
• 1:05:55
  Mean it can be for some people, but but for people like us, it's
• 1:05:58
  like we were speaking outsider. We should have just recorded
• 1:06:01
  that conversation. But it's like literally bro.
• 1:06:03
  I mean, you missed out bro. This is crazy.
• 1:06:05
  For real, man, it's like why did you start the content?
• 1:06:08
  Why did you start the pod? Was it for brand deals?
• 1:06:10
  Did you become an influencer because hashtag ad and
• 1:06:13
  #sponsorship. If you did, then fears.
• 1:06:16
  I'm not, I'm not judging you on that, but like I didn't start
• 1:06:18
  hate squid. I didn't do no blind sports for
• 1:06:20
  no ads or no money. I did it because I enjoyed
• 1:06:22
  making content and I'm sure it's the same for you guys.
• 1:06:24
  So if you if you love the game bro for conversation and
• 1:06:28
  creating, creating a safe space for the community.
• 1:06:30
  Even though I haven't dropped like podcasting, like I said
• 1:06:33
  around 2 years roughly, but alhamdulillah till this day, the
• 1:06:36
  impact it had, you know, whether it's at embargo or TfL
• 1:06:40
  underground, wherever it may be, you know, people still show that
• 1:06:42
  love. And for me, that's what success
• 1:06:44
  is, not a brand partnership or something like that, you know
• 1:06:47
  what I'm saying? Yeah, big love to you bro.
• 1:06:50
  You did the hard thing and it paid off. 100 line and if if not
• 1:06:55
  just in Dunya also of course without a doubt in Arcola as
• 1:06:58
  well. Charlotte, bro, just, yeah, just
• 1:07:01
  all we can do is make dwarf for our brothers and sisters going
• 1:07:03
  for the high. I mean, look at us.
• 1:07:04
  We're Marshall in, you know, a beautiful studio in London.
• 1:07:07
  And we're living our best lives. And, you know, that's the least
• 1:07:09
  we can do for our for our beloved in the other side of the
• 1:07:13
  world. Going through, I don't know what
• 1:07:14
  word to use. Going, going through a living
• 1:07:16
  nightmare, man. You know what I mean?
• 1:07:17
  May Allah, may Allah reward them and give them the success they
• 1:07:19
  deserve. I mean.
• 1:07:22
  Make it easy for them. And can I just say a final point
• 1:07:25
  from me for sure. That's OK with you guys.
• 1:07:27
  I just want to take the confo just slightly back to the point
• 1:07:29
  where you spoke about luck and you bring up some hadifs and it
• 1:07:33
  reminds you of the hadith by Imam Assad Khali Salaam where he
• 1:07:35
  says Kun Hussain and Lena, you know, be a good adornment for
• 1:07:40
  us. So that means that ties him back
• 1:07:43
  with the that you're speaking about Prophet Muhammad,
• 1:07:45
  Sallallalla Ali Ali Wasallam. While you were mentioning Aflac
• 1:07:48
  and while you were mentioning this hadith, I was I don't think
• 1:07:51
  I've shared the story before. There was a time where I think
• 1:07:54
  it was 2000 and stuff for Allah. Let me see what time my what
• 1:07:58
  year. Sorry, 18 OK, was was just
• 1:08:05
  around the time my second daughter was born.
• 1:08:07
  So this is now 2018. I wanted to make extra income by
• 1:08:13
  that 2 two kids, I had more responsibilities, etcetera.
• 1:08:16
  So at Hamdul I have, I had my own, I run my own business.
• 1:08:19
  I still do, but I just needed some extra income on the side.
• 1:08:22
  So I done some Uber Inc. So for a few months I done some
• 1:08:25
  Uber just to Wellness the cash flow.
• 1:08:27
  Our home comes out. That's to do what I have to do.
• 1:08:30
  And I had an opportunity to come across a passenger.
• 1:08:32
  I don't know if I've shared this with you, Ahmed, but I've said
• 1:08:36
  it to some other brothers before.
• 1:08:37
  I'll share on the on aftermath of today.
• 1:08:40
  I got a job request that was to pick up someone from Morrisons.
• 1:08:44
  Morrisons in Borehamwood. I don't know if you guys know
• 1:08:47
  the area who are listening in. I went there, I picked up an old
• 1:08:50
  lady. It was an old lady to me.
• 1:08:52
  She was white, as white English as English.
• 1:08:54
  I lost her shopping. It was raining.
• 1:08:57
  I took out an umbrella for my car and I went with the
• 1:09:00
  umbrella. I told do you hold the umbrella?
• 1:09:03
  I took the shopping bags and I put them in the trunk.
• 1:09:06
  And that was something automatic we got in the car.
• 1:09:10
  She said, is your name Ali? I'm like, yeah, she's making
• 1:09:12
  sure I'm the driver, right. But I was like, yeah.
• 1:09:14
  And I was like, you going to this address?
• 1:09:16
  Confirming the address. Yes.
• 1:09:17
  And we started that. We started the trip, basically
• 1:09:20
  the journey, I think about two minutes in.
• 1:09:22
  So she was like, your name is Ali.
• 1:09:23
  I'm like, yeah, my name is Ali. And she was like, you are
• 1:09:26
  Iranian. And I said, no, I'm Iraqi.
• 1:09:30
  She goes, OK, we are neighbors. I'm like, so you're Iranian.
• 1:09:32
  I was confused. Although you're not white,
• 1:09:33
  you're not British. You look like as British, as
• 1:09:35
  British to me. Yeah.
• 1:09:36
  And then she was like, no, I'm Iranian, but I've been in the UK
• 1:09:39
  for like 40 years. I'm like, OK, nice.
• 1:09:41
  And then I think a minute and she was like, are you Muslim?
• 1:09:47
  And I was like Hamdullah and I was shocked.
• 1:09:50
  She was a Muslim. She was now anti Muslim at the
• 1:09:53
  back. And to me that was like my first
• 1:09:54
  interaction with someone from Iran who was like anti religion
• 1:09:58
  and everything. But I kept my cool because she
• 1:10:01
  was speaking against our beliefs in such a way where I was like,
• 1:10:06
  how is this even? Like, how could someone from
• 1:10:09
  Iran be speaking at this level? So I left it.
• 1:10:13
  And then she went on to speak about our scholars.
• 1:10:17
  So the lady here, she mentioned, for example, she was like, you
• 1:10:20
  know, the mullahs and the scholars, they guys, these guys
• 1:10:24
  are XYZ. I don't want to mention the
• 1:10:26
  words here. And I kept quiet the whole time.
• 1:10:30
  And then we reached the destination and I told her, you
• 1:10:33
  take the umbrella, I'll bring your shopping to your to your
• 1:10:36
  door because it was still pouring rain.
• 1:10:38
  And then I went, I dropped off the bags, took the umbrella
• 1:10:42
  back. And she told me how, how do you,
• 1:10:45
  how did you, you know, keep your cool?
• 1:10:48
  And I was like the very people you are speaking against.
• 1:10:52
  They told me. They taught me how to keep my
• 1:10:54
  cool and I didn't do this because I wanted to please you
• 1:11:00
  of how Islam is. This is just how Islam raised us
• 1:11:03
  and the very people you were speaking about.
• 1:11:06
  She was talking against Imam Ali Ali Salaam.
• 1:11:09
  I was like, he's the very reason him and Rasul Allah Fallah Ali
• 1:11:13
  Ali wasalam why we are like this is much deeper.
• 1:11:17
  But I just wanted to just to remind like the and it had an
• 1:11:19
  impact. And then she apologized.
• 1:11:21
  She said, I'm very sorry, Ali. She was saying my name in the
• 1:11:24
  Farsi accent. She was like, I'm very sorry.
• 1:11:26
  I was like, no problem. But I was like, look into it
• 1:11:28
  further, she tells. But I don't know much about the
• 1:11:31
  religion. That was why, understood.
• 1:11:33
  All she knows is Islam. Islam why?
• 1:11:36
  How you carry yourself? Yeah, I could have took the
• 1:11:38
  conversation completely different way.
• 1:11:41
  Someone who speaks against our Prophet brought it hurts us.
• 1:11:45
  Yeah, I mean that that was a hard journey in the car.
• 1:11:48
  But the fact that I kept my call and had my akhlaq and presented
• 1:11:52
  to her the akhlaq Inshallah, that which pleases the school of
• 1:11:54
  a little bit, that which pleases say the Fatima Ali has Salaam,
• 1:11:57
  the Imam of our time, we are like hasten his reappearance.
• 1:12:00
  These are the very reasons that Inshallah, when it comes to the
• 1:12:03
  world of content creation, yes, we represent the very man, the
• 1:12:07
  Prophet himself, and then he deserves to be represented
• 1:12:10
  because people have never had the Quran, people have never met
• 1:12:13
  Sallallahu Alaihi. So when they interact and when
• 1:12:17
  they see you, they see Ahmed, they see me and they see other
• 1:12:19
  Muslims around the world. This is how they see our
• 1:12:22
  Prophet. This is how they see our Imam.
• 1:12:24
  For example, please make sure always to.
• 1:12:28
  Did I not tell you he carries himself well?
• 1:12:31
  I. Think a Clark is one of them
• 1:12:34
  things where that is you can be praying five times a day and the
• 1:12:39
  you know, the extra knuffled prayers and the Sooners and you
• 1:12:42
  can be reading Quran fluently and all this great stuff.
• 1:12:45
  You know, be the first person in the majalis and you know the the
• 1:12:48
  the loudest. Not I had that he's you could do
• 1:12:50
  all of that great stuff, but ultimately every if there's a
• 1:12:54
  scale and you've got all of that, but you don't have a
• 1:12:57
  clerk, then that scale has just tipped.
• 1:12:59
  But if you've got a clerk, that's that's I'm not saying
• 1:13:02
  it's more important. I can't I can't I don't want to
• 1:13:04
  start that conversation of significance of true, you're
• 1:13:07
  right, but your clerk is ultimately is what people.
• 1:13:10
  'S the barometer you know very. Literally, yeah.
• 1:13:13
  It's that their skill. Never forget that skill.
• 1:13:14
  Do you know what I mean? There's an idea from the Holy
• 1:13:16
  Prophet, peace be upon in his family.
• 1:13:18
  It's quite literally half of Dean is a clock.
• 1:13:20
  This simply is that some half of your Dean is a clock.
• 1:13:22
  Some. So your, your, your faith in
• 1:13:25
  itself is not complete without a clock.
• 1:13:27
  Yeah, I think that's the lesson for all of us, man.
• 1:13:29
  If there's one thing I've learned today, it's to be more
• 1:13:31
  conscious about how I carry myself online and also how we as
• 1:13:34
  a community represents ourselves in mind.
• 1:13:37
  And also that journey of content creation has, it has to be
• 1:13:41
  thoughtful. And I think it has to be like,
• 1:13:45
  you know, I know we create spontaneous content at times,
• 1:13:48
  but at the same time, it needs to be intentional content.
• 1:13:51
  So you might do spontaneous content, but it has to be
• 1:13:53
  intentional towards a specific strategy or goal or something
• 1:13:56
  which serves a bigger cause. Whether you're Muslim or not,
• 1:14:00
  you need to be doing things which are serving a bigger
• 1:14:02
  purpose. And at the bare minimum, you
• 1:14:05
  know you're not contradicting the values that you should have.
• 1:14:10
  Hey there bro, thank you so much.
• 1:14:11
  Man, bro, the honour was all my. Big love, man.
• 1:14:14
  Not to learn from you. Trust me.
• 1:14:15
  Say that again. A lot to learn from you.
• 1:14:17
  Bro, I should be saying that to you guys, but my first podcast
• 1:14:20
  in two years, I'm I'm so grateful that have you
• 1:14:22
  retirement ended and it was here with you guys.
• 1:14:24
  Watching show a couple of seasons more.
• 1:14:27
  Collaborations coming and yeah, man, just keep up the great
• 1:14:30
  work, boys. In Likewise, even outside of
• 1:14:32
  this conversation today, if there's anything I can do to
• 1:14:34
  help have you and yeah, if you, if you, if anyone watching right
• 1:14:36
  now has come through any of my platforms, please do support my
• 1:14:39
  brothers here, our brothers here.
• 1:14:41
  Do you know what I'm trying to say?
• 1:14:42
  And yeah, man, thanks again for having me, boys.
• 1:14:44
  Inshallah. Thank you so much.
• 1:14:45
  Hope I don't know if I did. I hope I did provide even a tiny
• 1:14:49
  bit of value, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:14:50
  No, you don't work like we'll find you find your work.
• 1:14:53
  For sure bro. So it's at on all platforms.
• 1:14:56
  It's just the same username at Hader Ali HXIDER.
• 1:15:01
  There might be a dot Ali on Instagram or so on and so forth,
• 1:15:04
  but generally it's just haydah dot Ali on most platforms,
• 1:15:07
  mainly active on TikTok and Instagram.
• 1:15:11
  Twitter recently has been a bit more of a retreat, retreat,
• 1:15:14
  social fest. I don't know, it has had its
• 1:15:18
  moment sort of thing, but yeah, man, yeah, that's it.
• 1:15:20
  Mainly Instagram and TikTok, yeah.
• 1:15:22
  Big love. Thank you so much.
• 1:15:24
  Thank you so much, Charlotte. This ain't this ain't going to
• 1:15:26
  be the last time. Hopefully we have a meaningful
• 1:15:28
  conversation in the future man, Charlotte and.
• 1:15:30
  Charlotte, may Allah bless your protection, keep up the good
• 1:15:32
  work. And brothers and sisters, if you
• 1:15:34
  enjoy this conversation or if you are a content creator
• 1:15:37
  yourself, let us know you know your thoughts, your perspectives
• 1:15:40
  on today's conversation in the comments.
• 1:15:42
  And please, if you know anyone who wants to get into content
• 1:15:44
  creation, share this episode with them and shut up.
• 1:15:47
  Our guys, we'll see you next week.
• 1:15:49
  Make sure you check out how this page is, and it's got a lot.
• 1:15:53
  Yeah, we'll see you guys next week.
• 1:15:55
  Thanks, Heather. Take care.