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My hard (but real) story | The Wholehearted Healing Journey · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: Hey friend, if you've been a faithful podcast listener, you may have listened to an episode that I recorded and shared a few weeks ago.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: But due to a number of circumstances beyond my control, I could not continue the mini-series that I promised you.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: Not only could I not continue, but I didn't have a plan or a backup plan.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: All I knew is I didn't have the capacity for the content that made sense to share for this space and with you.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: This might have been spiritual resistance, or maybe I was just on the edge of burnout, or it could have been a heavenly redirection.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: But whatever it was, I hit a creative block.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I had a choice to make.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: Push through or live what I teach.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have many answers, or at the time I didn't have many answers or a solution, but eventually I saw that the answer wasn't about me pushing through my limitations.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I decided to not finish the series and I chose to unpublish the first one.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: That friend was so hard to do.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, I'm just cringing even now.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: It was a big deal.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you can fully understand how much I value giving my time and my heart to this space of conversation.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: Perhaps seven years of faithfully doing this week in and week out speaks of my value and care for you as a listener.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: But just know it wasn't a decision that I made lightly or that I took lightly.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: Thankfully, less than a week later, I have a little bit more direction than I did.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have the answer to my why question, but I felt like the Lord directed me to two conversations that I should share with you.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: So this week, Brian Lee has given me permission to share my hard but real story that I had with him for his broken to beloved summit last year in 2023.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: Now, the decision to share the painful story of the last several years has not been an easy one for me to make.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I share some of those reasons why with Brian during this conversation.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: But I do hope that you hear my story today and you hold my story with care.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, your wholehearted living coach.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so glad that you stopped by to spend some time with me.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: I truly understand what it's like to juggle everything as a wife, mom to three teenagers, a pup, and all while building a growing business.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: And friend, I haven't always done things with clarity, peace, or joy.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: But still, the Lord has taken my broken-hearted pieces and healed them so I can live with whole-hearted rhythms to provide women like you with a step-by-step process so you can get free of anxiety, shame, and frustrations that might be holding you back from thriving.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: First, I need to say thank you because you introduced me to the world of virtual summits by inviting me the last two years to yours.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: I got to speak on the topic of spiritual abuse, religious trauma, church hurt.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's because of the prep for my session at your summit that this whole thing has happened at all.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: I just love getting to champion and encourage you.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just thrilled with what you're doing and ultimately how the Lord has been leading you through this.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's very encouraging and validating.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think because it was it was so scary for me to share at all.
• 3:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was kind of the first time I had publicly talked about it.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we talked before hitting record that this is probably your first time talking about your side of it.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Just like there's a lot of fear and anxiety and shame all wrapped up in it.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what I've discovered over the past year is how much freedom there also is in getting my story out there, and then more importantly for me, getting resources out there for people to move through it and not just stay there forever, right?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: And what I love about your work is everything is wholehearted something.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's obviously a core term for you, it shows up everywhere.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: So would you just set the table for us and tell us what that word means for you?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I deem wholehearted being this transformation that happens from giving God all our brokenhearted pieces.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not a one-time thing, I think it's a many-time thing because all of us are living in a fallen, broken world.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: And we get a choice, and to your point, we get those fork in the road moments.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: And what are we going to do with it?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: We can stay the victim, which honestly oftentimes leads us to live as a villain, or we can choose to partner with Christ, who's the ultimate hero, and become a hero in our story.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I believe that's the transformation, again, not of perfection, but of the ongoing work of sanctification and the rebuilding and the restoring process and the restoring, like restoring ourselves, that we get to live in this rhythm of wholeheartedness.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's not about hitting the mark all the time, but understanding that it's where the Lord would have us come back to.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's the steady place that we can come back to in Him.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, wholehearted, it's definitely a core value in my community.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: So we're here to talk about a wholehearted healing journey, right?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that you have a tool that you like to use.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: So what I'd love for you to share about it.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: What is it?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: What does it do?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us whatever you want.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: And Brian, I wanted to preface this with something that you had hinted at.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: And that is I haven't really shared this message before.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll tell you why, because I do have a weekly podcast.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: I share lots of things.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: I do a lot of training, I do a lot of coaching.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: But there's something about sharing a story in the right place with the right people.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think the story that I'm about to share, and maybe some of the details that I don't do a deep dive, but I cover, I don't think they're for everybody to know for different reasons.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: And part of that is because we're all at different places in our journey and in our story.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so some of the things, or maybe even my perspective or how I've gone through it, it would be missed.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: The depth and the pearl that I'm offering in this conversation so could be tossed to the wrong people.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just preface all of this saying, I am purposely sharing this at this time.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I'll share it more down the road.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm sharing it to this community because I believe these are people who are ready to hear these ideas, who are ready to explore their story and who are ready to go through that holistic journey of heart, mind, and body.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I just want to preface that's why I haven't shared, and that's why it's not something that maybe I'm going to be sharing on the regular at this point in time.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: Again, because I really treasure what's what you're doing here and what really everyone by signing up and attending, whether it's a free ticket or a paid ticket, it's a bold move.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I just want to say honor that and I see that.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: But thank you.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: To your point, yes, absolutely.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for giving me the opportunity and again, kind of likewise pushing me to this place of growth of sharing in my story.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I do have a box of Kleenexes just in case you're ready.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm ready just in case.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't know about you, Brian.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm wondering, have you heard of the you diagram before?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's sometimes referenced in the counseling world.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: I have not.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: It is something, yeah.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm so excited to dive into.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think it's a well-known fact, um, but it is something that the Allender Center teaches on.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: And the U diagram was created by Kathy Lorzel.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, she's currently the executive vice president of the Allender Center.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know all the details of the Allender Center, but I know they offer so much incredible resources, especially for those who want to process their story and those who want to help guide others through their story.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: But ultimately, the you diagram represents what wholehearted is all about.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: It acknowledges the fact that we have to invite our heart, our mind, and body to ponder and engage the harm that has happened to you.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like we have to invite all of us to this.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so the you diagram gives an amazing picture to that.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: And we're going to dive into the details of it.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: I know you'll have the resource here that you're going to show so that we can have pictures along the way and people can download as well.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: But a quick caveat and disclaimer before I explain all of this.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: I have not been formally trained in this topic, but I have done a lot of self-study.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: I have used this process with myself and I've walked alongside many of my friends and clients through this tool.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I can testify after years of use, at least five, if not six, I've become very familiar with this tool.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, I think we can find it outlined in the gospels.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm going to tie that in and share with you today.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: Now, some of you also listening, when I describe the you diagram, you may not identify with the need of what I will term going to the bottom of the you because you already live there because of your race, your culture, or the trauma that you're currently facing right now.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: You might already be at the bottom.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: So this illustration is really more about giving you hope and giving you language about where you are right now in your journey.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: So listen to the whole picture.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: And this is about finding where you are at, very specifically, and understanding the picture of where Jesus wants to take us ultimately.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: So I know Brian, you're really good about this with your through cohort and a lot of things that you teach here.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: So that is the reminder is as you listen, stay tuned to your physical responses and to where you are in this healing process.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: You might need to be invited to the bottom of the U or you might already be there.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I want you to know that there is healing for you no matter where you are.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: So again, this tool for many people helps describe what they're experiencing and a picture, if you will, that reflects what we find in the scriptures and very specifically in the life of Christ.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of illustrations that I could relate to and tie in from Old Testament to New Testament.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: But because we just celebrated Easter here, I wanted to tie it into that specifically.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because as you know, there's specific days that are observed, leading to what is sometimes commonly referred to as the Super Bowl of Sundays for believers.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: Easter Sunday, right?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: And as a pastor, and for me as a pastor's kid and someone who's worked in ministry for a long time, Easter was always like, man, it was big, right?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of work went into it.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: Now, as I've grown in my liturgical practices and observing the Christian calendar, I've learned more about Lent and what it really looks like to observe the Holy Week and the life of Jesus.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm going to just highlight a few that are probably familiar to most of us, some terms in the days that we observe.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: So on Friday, we observe the death of Jesus.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's also known as Good Friday.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: And then the next day, in some religious and cultural traditions, we observe that Saturday as vigil or black Saturday.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm curious for you, Brian, based on your experience.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: For me, in most evangelical traditional circles, that dark Saturday was often glossed over because we were anticipating or we're preparing for Easter.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: How about you?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I had actually not heard Vigil Saturday or Black Saturday before.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I like hearing that.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's, and even in my own research, just in the last couple of years, it's it's the skipped day, right?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because everyone wants to rush to Sunday.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And especially if you're on staff or pastoring a church, it's like this is the day that I'm either going to do all my last-minute preparations for Sunday services, or it's the last minute I'm going to take to breathe and rest before we go into an all-day thing.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: So even in a very practical sense, even in preparing to lead Sunday services for Easter, that Saturday just gets swallowed up by all these other things that we don't take the time to recognize what that Saturday was really like.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: Completely my experience as well.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we should be excited and be preparing for Easter, right?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: But because of that traditional way of engaging with the resurrection and with Easter, it might explain why this important detail that I'll point out in the diagram is often glossed over or skipped over.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: So again, the U diagram, as the Allender Center teaches, it represents the process of healing that we're invited so that we might experience holistic healing in our heart, mind, and body.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, Brian, you're going to share the diagram here so that we can get that first picture.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm going to talk about it here and what that is.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: That first side of the U is Friday.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: And this is the day that we experience or we realize that we've experienced death, loss, trauma, and harm.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Now, when we read the Gospels, Good Friday, as we term it, term it, it was devastating.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: Not only did Jesus experience horrific physical suffering, he faced betrayal, loneliness, ridicule, and misunderstanding.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: Everything horrible that could happen happened to Jesus.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: And he was perfect.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: And he took that beating on our behalf.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: I often think too the other characters in the story, right?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: The other players in the story, the disciples.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: They said they would stay by his side till death, right?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: Just a few hours before, but they also betrayed and abandoned him.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: And my guess is they were the villain in that moment because they felt like the victim.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: They felt betrayed and abandonment as well.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the majority of these disciples, right, they had these grand visions about what Jesus was going to do.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: And the kingdom of God was going to take over and rule and reign in that moment in their earthly mindset, in their earthly way of looking, and their finite way of looking at something.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: So death on a cross, their savior dying on a cross, that was not part of the deal.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: That was not part of vision.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: So Friday was traumatic.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: But the bottom of the U, which in the diagram, that bottom part, represents the darkness of Saturday, or what I liken to the valley of the shadow of death, as we have heard the psalmist referred to in the 23rd Psalm.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: Saturday, if we really ponder it, it feels void of hope.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: In the Gospels, we read not only was Friday shocking, but then Saturday.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder what Saturday was really like for them.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: It was their Sabbath rest.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: But it was quiet.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: They chose to observe the religious law.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so therefore their limitations were tremendous.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: They could not mourn or grieve as they would normally, right?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: They could not do a lot of things that could maybe be coping mechanisms.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: They woke up to quiet and grief.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: I I think they would likely have woken on this day and gone, oh whoa.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: This is not how it should be.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: I thought maybe I had experienced a nightmare, but it wasn't just a dream.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: When they woke up on Saturday, they realized that's what really happened.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: They had lost their best friend, they had lost a hope for a savior.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: It was gone.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like he was dead, right?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: And all that was good and right in their world, those last three years of their life, oh, I can't imagine the ache.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: So Saturday, indeed, I think it was very, very dark for them.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: And we don't know much about it, right?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: And based on what we know about Jewish tradition and what happened the following day, my guess is there was unlikely a vigil of hope.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: Instead, it was just full of isolated lament and sorrow.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: I wish we knew more.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: We don't.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but contextually, culturally, historically, we can imagine a whole lot of how horrible that would be.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: So thank the Lord, Sunday came.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: And this is where I, as a seven, I like to get to this part of the story, right?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's very important, it's part of the description here.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: And the top of the you, praise be to God, it represents Resurrection Sunday.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: The gospel tells us how the women went to the tomb to do what they were restricted from doing the day before to observe the Jewish Sabbath.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: And instead of finding the body of Jesus, they found the guards that were not at their post.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: The stone was rolled in the away, an angel was there, and there was a grave clothes without a body.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: So depending on whose account you read, we do learn various details and interactions that followed the miracle of resurrection.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: But the good news of Sunday is that Friday was horrific.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: Saturday was even bleaker, but it's going to be okay because resurrection happened.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: Now, here's the important thing that I think it's I want to invite everyone to truly understand and to think about and maybe meditate on a bit.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that is just because Sunday came and Sunday will come again for you, it doesn't mean that Friday and Saturday weren't essential parts of the story.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: Just because the resurrection happened, it doesn't mean the horror, the pain, and the loss of the days before didn't mean something or are not a critical part of the story.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: I actually think that Resurrection Sunday is so powerful because Friday and Saturday needed Sunday's hope.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much good there.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead, keep going.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: I know there is a lot here.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for letting me share it in this fluid way, or I hope a way that is coherent.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: But I think ultimately, and and you and I, Brian, have talked a lot about this.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's so important to meditate on this fact that we need Friday and Sunday to really experience Sunday because a lot of faith circles have constructed a bridge from one side of the you to the other, from Friday to Sunday.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Or often I sometimes see the you like a metal slide.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm totally guilty of encountering the you this way.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the kid who's afraid to go down.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: So we try to clamor up the wrong way of that slide, that metal slide, right?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: We're trying to avoid the bottom, or we even get to the bottom and decide we want to go back up the wrong way because we don't want to stay there, right?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: And we do it our own strength.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: We can call it spiritual bypassing, it can be as extreme as that.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: We can call it bootstrapping, we can call it coping mechanisms.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: There are so many terminologies, and I'm curious for you, how have you observed the avoidance of the bottom of the U?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think the spiritual bypassing piece is the biggest in my own experience.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: And for people who may not be familiar with the term or who keep hearing it and just kind of assume that they should know what it means, in my understanding, it's using spiritual language to bypass what our bodies, emotions, thoughts are experiencing.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: So when you go through something difficult, and then you show up at church or go to a small group or call a friend, and they just slap a verse on it, like a band-aid, or they offer some kind of prayer that is well-meaning, but honestly not helpful, and they prefer to use these spiritual methods to bypass the actual pain of what you're experiencing.
• 20:37
  unknown: Yes.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for your prayer, but I'm still bleeding out and nothing is helping.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: I need something more.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, also is often coupled with say you share something really hard at small group one week, they pray for you, and next week you're asked as if you should be over it already.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: As if that prayer was one and done, and woo, suddenly everything is all right.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's Sunday now.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: Most people who use spiritual bypassing, and I would totally put myself guilty in that camp years ago because I didn't know better.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Same.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: Totally did it, guilty of it.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: Please don't.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: While they might feel like the villain, that is typically not their intent.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: Now, a narcissist who uses spiritual bypassing, that's a different conversation.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: But well-meaning garden variety sinners who just don't understand this you and the invitation to sit at the bottom of it, they're just trying to help.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: They might be afraid of the bottom of the you themselves.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: They may not know what it is like to face their trauma, their hurt, their pain.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: They may have never expressed it.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: I guarantee you've probably experienced something, but it's been dismissed in their life.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's all they know is to dismiss it.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: So we have been taught again and again, and by well meaning people, and in Lots of Christian circles to just skip the bottom of the U.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: We are most likely to do all we can to build our grief journey from Friday to Sunday and skip the valley of the dark Saturday.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: But here's a couple things that might happen if we skip Saturday.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think these are really important to note.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, there's likely a strong chance that when you avoid the darkness of Saturday, you may not give all your broken pieces to your loving healer.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: And right, that wholehearted journey, the broken hearted pieces for wholehearted healing.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't give all the broken pieces, can you really become wholehearted?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: Or is there always something, a piece of you that is being held back?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe yet not had the opportunity to be fully restored and healed.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: Another thing that could happen if you skip Saturday is in Saturday, and I can attest to this, I'll tell you more, but we experience the comfort of Christ in a more powerful way than if we were to skip from Friday to Sunday.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, Sunday is all about God's power, but Saturday is about God's son Jesus going to hell with us.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: Hear that?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's what we know about Saturday.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: In the accounts found in Matthew and Acts, Peter, and other holy scripture, Jesus went to hell on that Saturday to release the captives.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Now, there's all sorts of theological discussions in that I'm not going to go into, but you have to understand He wants to go to hell with you.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: And the last thing that I see, and there's probably many more than I'll outline here, is that when we skip the Saturdays of our grief, we are prolonging the process of healing available to us.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: We might end up carrying the burden and the weight of your pain much longer or feel as if you're isolated in your suffering in a way that the Lord never intended.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: And usually going to the bottom of the you requires others to participate in your story.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: So when you invite help and support, you allow others to be the hands and feet of Jesus as God intended the community, his community to be.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: So here's the deal.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: Remember that caveat I gave a few at the beginning.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: But you may not be in a place where you can skip the hopelessness of Saturday.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you're regularly experiencing the anger, the shame, and anxiety of Friday's pains, and you are very aware of it.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: Again, that could be because of your race and the pain you've experienced.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you've just come out of a very traumatic ordeal and hurt and pain.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe I've sat with many women in this situation.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: They come of an age that suddenly the memories of their youth are there and they can no longer ignore them.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's coming in dreams, it's coming in flashbacks, and there is nothing they can do about it.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: So you just need someone to say me to and to sit with you in that darkness so you can feel heard and seen.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope that today you hear the hope that Sunday is also for your story.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I have an important question because this isn't about just this fun, like, okay, that's cool, you diagram.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: I want to know what your Fridays are.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I want you to see what the you journey means for you and your story and your healing ultimately.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: Now I promised I would share a little bit of my story.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I'm sharing because I believe it's a safe place.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: But my Fridays, I've got a lot of them, and you probably do too.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: My Fridays are about sexual trauma in my early childhood, a lot of unhealthy church cultures, countless, too many to name here.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: And some of that teaching bled into my family home.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: I was part of an internship in my early adulthood that was it was fraught.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: That word is like the best word.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: It was just so much spiritual abuse was woven within that.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: But honestly, I was groomed for that.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I didn't know that I needed help or that I needed to be freed from it.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: It was just so hard.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, there's a lot of little deaths and trauma and wounds, and what sometimes we refer to, Brian, as you know, little T trauma.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that's just living, right?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: And what you deem as little T trauma, big T trauma is going to be different.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: What is hard is hard.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: What is trauma is trauma.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: Ultimately, I think there's a lot of moments here that the disciples experience too, just like when Jesus was facing death.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: Because they're going, wait a minute, this is not how it should be.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: This is not what I imagined.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so there's a lot of that in our lives where we go, wait a minute, this is not what I signed up for, or not how I thought it was going to go.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: So here's the thing, Brian.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm in my 40s and I have thought up until about two years ago that I spent plenty of time addressing the Fridays of my life.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: I thought I was doing good.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: I had, I was, I've worked with a counselor.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: I had even sat at the bottom of the U.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: I had done work with something called cleansing streams in my early 20s, which was cutting edge, had no idea what I was gifted with.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: I even did emannual journaling, which is now a big thing that I love sharing with my clients.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: And a mentor utilized that with me at the same time.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: So so powerful things that I'm like, whoa, in the early odds, how did like praise be to God that I had access to these things?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: They were so huge.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: So here's the thing though: there were still missing pieces of my story and puzzles, things that were a little bit hazy, a little bit dark, and I couldn't quite name.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I even would still, and this is a seven talking, but I would be swept up by this underlying current of grief.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: It would take me by surprise, and I would experience anxiety, shame, anger, disunity in relationships.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so I knew there was more, but here comes the spiritual bypassing phrases.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: I would just tell myself, Jesus is my friend, he heals my brokenness.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: I just need to keep forgiving.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: Let that be heard right now.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: I just thought I needed, I was unforgiving, maybe I was full of bitterness.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: And because I thought, gosh, I've dealt with all these things, right?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: So as someone who is naturally inclined to avoid pain, I definitely decided I'm gonna just ignore that.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna keep pushing on instead of going through it.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: But to the point of some of us not being able to avoid the bottom of the U.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: In February 21, so a little over two years ago, I got a text from a sibling followed by a long phone call.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: And more pieces of that puzzle began to come together.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, Brianna was bigger and uglier than I could have ever thought, and no longer could we ignore it.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: In short, what came up is my dad had been living a double life.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, calling it duplicity is a really kind way to paint the picture, but I I want to honor him ultimately and all the others involved in the story.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: But it is kind of the best, neatest way to describe what happened.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: And the hard thing is, Brian, my dad was a minister of the gospel for decades.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: He still is.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: He was a husband of 43 years.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: He was a dad to four grown kids on the oldest of four and five grandkids.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: He decided to keep hiding and hiding and hiding.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: So there was much that came to light in the days and weeks that followed.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this I could fill a book with what transpired over the next few weeks, and I'm not gonna share it here.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: But ultimately, the intensity of the heartache that we all experience is super hard to describe and tell.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: And praise be to God, I'm feeling calm and not emotional.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: So that's that's the Lord.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: The interesting thing is, Brian, and you might liken some of your experience to this too, that once I did find out the truth of the horrible, there was actually some relief in it too, right?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: Because there had been dark things, and there are still some things that I'm not totally sure, but there were those pieces, right?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: That I've been trying to put together and I've been trying to name.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: And there was a measure of relief when I could confirm I am not crazy because having grown up with someone who is a narcissist, I would truly often gaslight, and I'm still getting free of that fully.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: I would just gaslight myself into believing that I was the one crazy, right?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: That I was making things up, I was believing crazy things, ugly things, terrible things.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: And again, going back to that, I was just being unforgiving and bitter.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I truly spent decades believing that.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: So when I found out that I wasn't crazy, it was relieving and terrifying.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I imagine a lot of our friends can raise their hand to that too.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: When they finally name that horrible heartache, it's horrible, but yet okay, that's what it is.
• 31:19
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: So if we can pause right there.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, I'm so sorry.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because that is a lot.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then immediately after that, I just say thank you for being so vulnerable to share that here.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: I feel honored is the wrong word, but that you would feel safe.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because I, you know, I have no idea how many people will show up for this.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: What I do trust is that almost all of the people who do show up will have stories like yours.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: That they have been afraid to share, that they have not been willing to admit.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: Or for some of them who still haven't found out yet that that might be part of their story.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, others who have processed it in different ways, or who have been through what they consider to be little T trauma that someone else might consider major capital T trauma.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate even you differentiating those two things.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it doesn't matter at the end of the day because it's perspective and your experience of it.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's one thing to almost read a prepared statement of your own story.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think it it helps to create a little bit of distance and safety to be able to share it as you are.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I understand it and I appreciate it, and I need you to know how important it feels for me, for you to be doing that.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so much work and good work that is being done.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like you say, when we are able to invite others into it.
• 33:02
  unknown: That's it.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's that community piece for me that is becoming so important of not skipping from Friday to Sunday, of being able to recognize, you know, one of the things I've learned in this work is just that you cannot hope to heal from something you can't name.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Or that you want to admit that happened.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like you're saying, and especially for Sevens, but for so many of us who just want to push through or skip over or whatever it is, it's like, no, no, no, it's it's fine.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: It'll be fine, whatever it is.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, no, no, no.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Until you can really admit and own that this thing happened to you, or possibly that you were complicit in some of the things that happened, you can't get past it.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you were the one who reminded me of going on a bear hunt, right?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: We can't go around it, we can't go over it, we gotta go through it.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's even where the name for my cohort came from is like from that conversation.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there are a lot of people here who may be processing that or hearing your story and either recognizing elements of it in their own.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to just give us a moment to pause and recognize it and how important it is.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: And again, to just say thank you for sharing your part of it.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: For people who may be listening, it's like, hey, maybe you need to hit pause and take a break.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that's okay too, and come back to it later, or not at all.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: But more than anything, just to say, I see you, Amy.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: I validate you and your story and the absolute floodgates of things that were open for you as recently as two years ago to still be processing.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm processing stuff from 10, 12 years ago that still feels fresh.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I can't imagine hearing bombshells two years ago and processing that on top of everything else.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I really appreciate what you're saying about the unforgiveness piece because that's something I'm still dealing with.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, is it just me not being willing to forgive?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, forgiveness is a daily thing.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't take away what happened to you.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't lessen or diminish the sin of what happened to you by choosing to forgive.
• 35:16
  unknown: Yeah.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I also want to say that this whole you diagram makes me think so much of liminal space that I've done a lot of reading and research on.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: So if this resonates, kind of this whole thing of Fridays to Saturday to Sunday, and what work does God do in our Saturday?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I know we want to go there next too, but I couldn't let you finish your story or tell it and then gloss over it as if we're just here for a session or just here to offer resources.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: But just thank you so much for being willing to share that with us.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like a really sacred space and sacred moment.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I just want to say that to you.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: Brian, you can't make me cry.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: I know, me either.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's really good work.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: And this is this is what the work looks like for everyone who's here.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: You can't take a next step until you tell someone what happened to you and let someone see you for where you are.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: And to that point, Brian, I think that if we don't we live with this ache of wanting to be seen.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I still I'm painting a high view, but I need to tell people how mad and hurt I still am.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: And how I can't believe it turned out the way it did.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: And how Saturday still happens.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: And we can't do that alone, and we don't have to.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I that's why I'm so grateful.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: So grateful you are doing what you're doing and why I get to do what I do.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: Because we've got to tell someone.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: I promise you, those moments of anger, those moments of where you can't get out of bed, where you just cannot seem to connect to people, and you're numbing out left and right, and just employing every copingism, like it comes from that place of that untold story that desperately needs to get out.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so thank you for pausing and not only honoring, because I think we have to do that, right?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is how we do story work.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: We have to sit with one another.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I, you know, we could use a whole another session about what does story work look like and how do you engage with someone's story?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: You just demonstrated what does it look like to engage with someone's story, and that is to honor it and to make sure it doesn't get glossed over.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not even about me, too.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like I see you.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: And that has to be so hard.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: All right, we'll proceed.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, all right.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I what I do want to say is that for me, that literally right after that infamous phone call in February, I plunged to the bottom of the U without, like, not because I wanted to.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: I could not, it was totally involuntary.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like it just was.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: I literally was thrown into the darkness of Saturday.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: I crumpled on a heap on my bedroom floor, and for hours I wept.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I can, I have never ever, I can think of one other time in a healing part on my journey 20 years ago that I did that.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: But this, I wept because of the 40 years of deceit, plus years towards my mom.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: I wept for her, I wept for myself, I wept for my siblings, I wept for my kids, I wept for my nephew, everybody.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: So much pain.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I, as a seven, and this is a whole conversation, as a seven looking forward, I wept for all the moments ahead.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: I knew how much pain we were gonna have to face because of this.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: And it was truly unbearable.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: So there was no climbing up that metal slide element here.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: There was no climbing up and trying to pull myself up.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: I could not construct a bridge to get to the other side.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I honestly, thanks be to God, I did fully travel to the bottom of the U.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: And to your point of community, again, so grateful that my husband was willing to sit with me in that.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: A few close friends, very small handful who've known the ins and outs and the nitty-gritty.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: They sat with me at the bottom of the U, but I also knew that they were able to.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: My husband, this was a little trial by fire.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: He did not know what he was getting into.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like, he's like, oh my gosh, what has happened?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: And it was hard for him as a nine and me as a seven.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, Where's your joy?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: Where's your happiness?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: What's happened?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: We don't know the end of the story, you know, all of those things that he got a he got trial by fire.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_03: He's learned not to say those things.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_03: And he learned to sit with me.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: And and thank goodness for friends who, because I sat with them in their bottom of you moments and they were well practiced themselves.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm not going to go in the the details, but I am going to paint a picture here to understand and to just give that opportunity, like you said, to share a story.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: That infamous day of the text and the phone call, pretty quickly, my other three siblings, we ended up rallying together and we truly believed that there would be healing, forgiveness, restoration, and we believed that it was possible for everyone.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: We were all working with counselors, many of our own at this time and as a group.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: We worked with professionals.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: We did everything we knew to support these possibilities.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: We all gathered where my parents were.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: We invited professionals in.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: We took, we spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours, if not thousands, trying to find a way through.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: But ultimately, my dad wasn't willing to own any part of his wrongdoing.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, he instead chose to live in denial.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, he was pretty unkind to everyone who was asking for his honesty.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: Within a year, so by February 2022, my mom lost everything her house, her marriage, and practically all her possessions.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: My dad refused to take any steps towards healing and restoration.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: And four months later, just four months after the divorce was final, we found out that he was getting married to someone that we had never heard of before.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so sorry.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: I I want to use this illustration because I think other people have lost relationships this way.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I I share it uh thoughtfully and with the best intent.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: But it was it was almost like he had a cancer diagnosis.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so the diagnosis is horrible, right?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: But there's hope.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: There's hope that there can be healing, there can be a cure, that this isn't the end.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: But and even after the divorce, honestly, we're like, this doesn't have to be the end.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: But that moment we found out that he was choosing another family ultimately, it was like he decided to end his life and that there was no healing in the way we wanted it to be to have be there.
• 42:56
  unknown: Yeah.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: So there's still parts of my story that I'm exploring.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: There's still things that are unclear and pieces I'm putting together.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: I ultimately want you to know you're not alone in your pain for those who are hearing.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I am sure that those who are listening have experienced betrayal, abandonment, loss, grief.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: You've experienced harm by people, either in an unintentional manner or very intentional manner.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if they're wicked or evil, but I do want to share this piece of hope.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it isn't to free frame, and it's not just because I'm a seven, but it's what I do call the wholehearted healing journey because ultimately I relearned five crucial things at the bottom of the U.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: I learned one that God is who he says he is.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: I also learned that God will keep his promises, he'll never leave me.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: I solidified, truly embraced wholeheartedly that I am God's beloved and I have been adopted into a forever family.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: Even though my mother and father forsake me, right?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: As the psalmist says, God calls me his own.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: I can survive all things through Christ who strengthens me.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's not maybe I can do, but I can survive all things through Christ who strengthens me.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, God's word is alive and it can actively comfort me.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: I learned those things in the bottom of the U.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm still unpacking those things.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: And for 20 months, and I'm not kidding, it was like 20 months, five days, 10 hours.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: I sat in the bottom of the U.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: I sat in Saturday.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: I went through the motions of life.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: But honestly, as you know, Brian, our capacity gets limited by sorrow.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: We still experience good things, like good moving, growing things are happening.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: We go through our day.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: But honestly, I cried every single day.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: It was sometimes five seconds and it was sometimes two hours.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: It truly was.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: Or I remember there was a handful of days where I would message my friends on Boxer, the two in particular who really sat with me and just said, Can you pray for me?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: I can't stop crying.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like there was not, I had to like teach a hundred kids in PE class and I couldn't stop crying.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: And they're like, Miss Amy, what's wrong with you?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: God's with me.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's unpro grief is unpredictable.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: You can't control it, but I did let it, and I suppose you can, but ultimately I let it come in waves.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: I continued to bear my pain with those trusted few.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: I did try to bear my pain with a few, hoping they would understand.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: It didn't go so well, and that's okay.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: You live and learn.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: But I got help.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: I told my story, and I ultimately I didn't deny the loss.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: I sat in that Saturday.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: I did dream of what resurrection could look like.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: I thought perhaps maybe my dad would have the veil lifted from his eyes and he would hit the bottom of the U and he would realize the only way up was God's grace and for and he would see the forgiveness that we would offer him.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: I I really did hope and that we would be one big happy family again.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: But that's not what happened.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, the choices did make that Saturday darker.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: But here's where the hope comes in.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: After that 20 months, whatever days and hours, it was an ordinary day, truly.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: I was driving down 470 east in my Toyota van.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: There wasn't a phone call, there wasn't a worship song.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: It was totally quiet, and there wasn't the hope of restored relationship.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: I was just picking up my girls from a sleepover.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I was viscerally experiencing a wave, an expression of joy.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was truly as if a ray of light was streaming from the inside out, right?
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: I laughed out loud by myself.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_03: I cried with happiness.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: And thank goodness I had a 30-minute car ride because I had to regroup.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: And my girls took their time getting out to the car.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: But I felt a physical sense of hope again.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it was just me and Jesus to bear witness.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm telling you what that I will never forget that moment has truly marked me.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, we cannot formulate a path to Sunday.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: There is not clean, easy steps, right?
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_03: As you talk about, Brian, it is just through.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: All I can tell you is that Jesus is the only one who can genuinely give the miracle of resurrection.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_03: And your resurrection, your day of healing, your moment of Sunday is probably going to look totally different than mine.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: And it might be unremarkable, but you will know when Sunday has come.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I mentioned Saturday comes every once and then again, but sometimes I go willingly when I feel like I have time.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it happens without warning, right?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't help it.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it's one of those days I'm crying and I don't know why.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: But ultimately it doesn't last long.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember that I'm not alone down there and that Sunday will come again.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I just want to, as you think about, maybe look, close your eyes if you're not driving or walking and visualize that you.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I very, I put very specific pictures there when addressing what it looks like to go to the bottom of the you.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I want you to see that you're not alone.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_03: That there's people who will help you go through, that there's that guide by the side who's there willing to help pick you up.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately it's Jesus who carries us like the lost sheep or the wounded sheep who can't keep going.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so Psalm 23, I I love the Passion translation.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: It reads like this Even when your path takes me through the valley of deepest darkness, fear will never conquer me, for you already have.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: Your authority is my strength and my peace.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_03: The comfort of your love takes away my fear.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'll never be lonely, for you are near.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um here's what I'm afraid of for people who are listening to this: that they hear your story and that they're comparing theirs to yours.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: So what I would want to say is if you are in that place with all the grace and love that I can muster, please stop.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 49:59
  unknown: 100%.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because your trauma is valid, your experience is valid, and it's what you went through.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's your story, and this one is Amy's, and mine is mine.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: And we we do have a few more thoughts before we wrap up, but it's like don't dismiss what you've been through because it doesn't sound like Amy's story.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like don't walk away hearing from someone else saying, Oh, but they had it worse, or I had it worse, or this could have happened, and I it wasn't as bad as it could have been.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's not the point, right?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: The point is that you went through it and this is now part of your story.
• 50:32
  unknown: Yeah.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: So you own it, you pick it up, you recognize that when our path takes us through the valley of deepest darkness, that the good shepherd is already with us and he's already been there.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: That he has literally been to hell and back on our behalf.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, the question I would have hearing all of this and hearing where you land and these principles that God is still who he says he is and will keep his promises, it would be the easiest thing, I feel like, for you to have the excuse to abandon all of it.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: And to leave it all behind.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, for you personally, why do you hold on?
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's the only thing that's tethered me.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_03: I literally think about so my husband's an arborist, and we did our fair share of rock climbing in our youth, you know, when we were young and me too.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: Headless, right?
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think of the carabiner.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think of literally like hooking in to my pant loop, you know.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even have the rope tied properly around myself, but I feel like it's it feels tethered by a thread sometimes, but it is it is a tethering, it is an anchor, it is the only thing I could hold on to.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I know I mean, even a big part of my journey, and interestingly, maybe even a week before I felt the Sunday come on, I finally yield for my whole household to hear.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm mad at God, why didn't he do something?
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_03: The free will, man.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and being able to say that and be mad, and instead of God going, Well, yeah, you too, he was like, I know kiddo.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I felt his arms wrap around me and say, It's okay.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_03: I can handle it.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_03: You can be mad, I'm mad too.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm mad too.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so that tether, it may be thin sometimes, but I don't know where I'd be without it.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what I'm hearing from so many people who have these stories, and from so many of our speakers.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I find myself asking that question a lot.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, listen, I I hear your story, and in the world's eyes, you have every excuse to leave the faith and to turn your back on God.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: And yet here you are still going or writing books or looking for answers and still clinging to this thing that we call faith.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I'm finding that that's a common answer, is whether it's the tether, you know, the thread that's holding you up.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: I know for me in my story, this, like you're saying, a visceral sense that God would not stop chasing me.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: That he was too real for me to give up on or turn my back on.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, you can go ahead.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: I already know what you're thinking and feeling, and I'm still here.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: Whether you're ready or not, I'm always here.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I just love hearing from other people who have had similar experiences or who have had experiences of abuse and trauma.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, why do you still cling to the faith?
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think it's a fair question that a lot of people would want to ask.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, why do you keep dealing with this?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of like it's Peter and the disciples like, well, where else am I gonna go?
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what else offers me hope.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what else offers any of these things, right?
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_03: You make such a critical point here because we have, like so many of us here, right?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: Most of us have experienced this pain and loss and trauma at the hands of people who profess Jesus.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_03: And this is where we have to separate man from God and all supreme being and who he is and the perfection of Christ Himself.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that separation can make a lot of difference.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_03: But ultimately, to that point, God is the only perfect one who will never leave, abandon, forsake, or betray you.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_03: He's the only one.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_03: Man will accidentally or incidentally.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um two, God desires you to be adopted in his family and have access to all his abundance and goodness and hope here on earth and in heaven.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_03: Three, you don't have to face the bottom of the you alone.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't think we can say that enough.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: So please hear me.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: This journey is not meant to be isolated.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: It is meant to have trusted guides by the side to sit with you.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: And that can be a therapist, it can be a coach, it can be a story group, the through cohort, a friend, a spouse.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_03: But please, please, please get the support you need.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: Don't do it alone.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_03: And then last and certainly not least, of course, there's many more, but there is no timeline for grief.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_03: Just like I said, Christ did give us a literal three-day description of you.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_03: Mine was 20 months, yours might be 20 years.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_03: They're just someday out of the blue.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_03: I really believe the sun is going to shine again.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_03: The hope that does not disappoint will return and rise up and be the lifter of your head in resurrection and resurrection Sunday will come again in your life.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Brian, for the opportunity to share this.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Amy.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I love that you say grief has no timeline, because I think for so many people in the church who may be well-meaning or well-intentioned, but it's like you said, they you show up the next week or three weeks and you keep coming back with the same prayer request or the same struggles.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, you're not over that yet?
• 56:08
  unknown: Yes.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, are you still dealing with?
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: I can't tell you how many times we've heard that question, and it's just never helpful.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: So wherever you are in your journey through grief or dealing with or processing any of your stories, like there is no timeline.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: There is a you, there are principles here at play.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or again, like if you talk if you think about liminal space and this weird in-between, and life moves in seasons, and we'll keep repeating some things over and over again.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and there is no rushing through it.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: You do it on the timeline that God has for you.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and don't let anyone else rush you through it.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because you have to deal with it in the way that works for you.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: Say it, say it for the people in the back.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: So based on everything, and I think you've offered a lot of hope and a lot of next steps.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: What would you what would you offer to people who are watching, who are honestly probably just kind of sitting back in their chair and like, wow, that was a lot.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: Where do I go from?
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_03: If you're ready for it, um, again, this might be where you need to step away, you need to put it on the shelf.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_03: But when you're ready, ultimately, I invite you to decide where you've been in your story.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, are you finding yourself at the bottom of the you often and involuntarily?
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I name it for what it is.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_03: Or if you've maybe bypassed it a lot in your life and you've just skipped from Friday to Sunday, and there's underlying pain and grief that is unaddressed and often coming out sideways.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think being able to name it, I know there's a lot of principles you and I teach to help give language around it.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then I truly mean like go get help.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_03: I know many of us feel very lonely and lack of community is, I don't know, it's it's rampant, um, honestly, because a lot of hurt has happened in community.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_03: So it might be worth hiring someone where it's very safe.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna go through stuff like this where you can name it and you can get tools and resources to walk through it.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_03: Please, please, please.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_03: I invite you when, you know, don't sit on this too long.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_03: Go take that next step and get someone to really hear and help you through where you're at in your story.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you again for sharing your story the way you did so honestly and vulnerably.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: Everything that you have shared, I think people will take to heart, and I think you've shared it with such honesty and transparency and vulnerability that they will feel safe hearing your story to maybe share theirs with someone else too.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I know that this was a much longer conversation than I typically keep these episodes, but if you listened all the way through, I imagine you must have resonated in some way, or you wanted to find some encouragement and hope for your healing process.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_03: If you need a safe place for your story, I highly encourage you to book a call with a wholehearted coach.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_03: Just follow the links in the show notes or check out simply wholehearted.com.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: We are here to help you on your journey.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_03: Next week, I'm going to offer some insight about being a guide by the side and how you can discern if you're ready to offer a safe place for others to process their story and guide others on the healing journey.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's a great conversation, and I'm excited to share it with you.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_03: Until next time, friend, continue to pursue God's perspective, purpose, and plans for your simply wholehearted life.