Latest / Glovisor Podcast / Ep. 47: The Wealth Mistake That Can Destroy Your Family Legacy - Sandy Pollack
Transcript
- Joe: Everyone talks about building wealth. Almost no one talks about protecting the values that built it. This episode exposes the part of legacy planning most families overlook. Welcome to the Glovisor Podcast, where we explore business growth, communication, and personal development through real conversations with people that make an impact. Our guest is the founder of Trimerian Advisory Group, a firm dedicated to values-based legacy planning that looks beyond traditional business and estate strategies. Her work centers on understanding the unique dynamics, priorities, and long-term vision of families before addressing the financial structures behind them. As principal and lead financial advisor, she's built multi-generational relationships by focusing on what clients want and why it matters. She holds credentials as a family enterprise advisor, trusted estate practitioner, certified financial planner, and chartered life underwriter. Glovisor welcomes Sandy Pollack Sandy Pollack: Thank you, Joe. It is a pleasure to be here with you today. Joe: let's begin. Please share with us a little bit more what you do. Sandy Pollack: we work with Family Business Enterprise Multigenerational and what I believe we do is we help business owners make wise decisions to protect and transition their wealth in a meaningful way so that they end up leaving a legacy that's not a legacy of lawyers. Joe: So what inspired you to pursue this path? Sandy Pollack: Well, many years ago, when I graduated McGill University, a gentleman who was coaching me in squash suggested that I go into the insurance business. And I thought he was a little crazy because the last thing I wanted to do was talk about death. And quite frankly, he was an incredible human being and had a lot of experience in the estate planning area. So interviewed various firms, started originally in Montreal, and realized that planning was more than just about death. It was really about life and it was about what was the purpose of one's wealth. And so whereas originally I started solely in the insurance industry, I kept seeing that there was a lot more to planning than just looking at solving a tax issue with life insurance. It was really trying to understand the history of someone's wealth, the history of a business, the grit, the failures, the stories. the hopes, the dreams that they had, because quite often you have a lot of entrepreneurs that they start a business with the sole intention of putting food on the f on the table. Joe, that's it. And they fail and they keep trying and they keep trying. And then over time it grows into something that more often than not exceeds their expectations and it's beyond financial security. It's really about financial independence. And then they realize that they have excess because there's only so much you can eat. There's only so much of a a life where yes, you might have you might be a car person or a cottage person or a boat person, but they realize that geez, I've got a lot more that's gonna extend beyond my lifetime. And how do I take care of this? And the first thing that that comes up is, well, geez, there's taxes, and how do you plan for estate taxes? But I say, let's go a little bit deeper than estate taxes, because I have seen the most incredible estate tax plans with trusts and and trustees, and yet a family ends up suing each other and there ends up being fighting and you'll have inheritors that are unexpected unexpectedly receive this enormous amount of money that they've never been taught about how to manage it. They don't know the history of it. They don't know the stories behind it. And so it can almost be like a crater that's landed in their backyard and they're supposed to do something with it. And I I felt that there had to be more to planning than that. And so over many years of seeing some of the destruction, some some plans working, many not, I decided to take a different approach to my practice. And that was dealing with family business transition and getting families more involved and I would say unwrapping what they had. Because quite often in the world today it's rude to talk about money. I mean, we have these things called money scripts, and depending on how we grew up, Did we grow up with money? Did we grow up without money? Did our parents argue about bills? Did our parents not say anything? Really ends up impacting someone's relationship with their own career, their own business, their own relationship with money. And more often than not, it can be very unhealthy. And yet money is what makes the world go round. It it's what we use to buy groceries, to fill up fuel in our car. And so We transitioned our practice into continuing estate planning but also focusing on multi-generational wealth, multi-generational family business succession so that the person that built it can have more clarity, have more comfort, and also have more meaning in in what he created so that he doesn't leave his family a mess. Joe: Who is the person that should be reaching out to you? Sandy Pollack: I would say that it would be someone who has a successful business, a minimum of five five years old minimum, because they've done the trials and the tribulations and hopefully they're still in business. They start thinking about what are they going to do with this? And it could be even ten or fifteen years that they've been managing this business. They may have children involved, they may not, they're starting to think about succession. Do I want to keep going till I'm eighty years old? What if something happens to me? What if I get hit by a Mack truck? How how how will this business continue without me? And I think for the ideal client for our group, it's someone that loves money and loves people and really cares about something that they've built and they want it to transcend and and mitigate any kind of risk possible. Joe: I like the statement that you mentioned. It says people with excess, you have extra, more. because very often I think that when we look at money, we look at it as a big picture and then we own it all and we have it all, and that's all there's to it. But as you mentioned, there's only so much you could eat. There's only so many boats you can purchase. So I love that because it's so true. Cause I I think at that moment, once you put it into that context, you start to think, wow, there is more be and beyond that that I should be considering. Do you think that most clients that come to you are coming to you too late? Sandy Pollack: don't know. I think it depends on where that person is at financially. It astounds me the number of very successful entrepreneurial families that don't the founders doesn't have a will or the will hasn't been updated. It it astounds me and all that ends up happening is things change. Like when you first start your business to when your business is five years old to ten to fifteen to twenty. it you have different it could expand, there could be different divisions, particularly with family business. They could own property, right? They have real estate. Then they have one business. They might decide to make horizontal changes and have another business or vertical marketing. So it ends up being multidimensional. And I think that there's never a perfect time to to say I'm ready, it's time to plan. I think it's it's asking I mean I would look at this as a question, when's the best time to plant a tree? Is is when's the best time to plant? And I'll ask you this, when's the best time to plant a tree, Joe? Joe: was twenty years ago. Sandy Pollack: And if not, today. So Joe: Today. Sandy Pollack: sometimes you just have to start and have the courage to say, you know what? Maybe some of the decisions that I've made five years ago or ten years ago aren't relevant, aren't sustainable. Maybe I have another spouse and all of a sudden my wills I haven't updated and it's still leaving certain things to my ex. Or maybe after twenty years I have a second family. You have an I do and an I do again. And and truly when you have these changes in your life. are are the big signs to say let's kind of open up our planning and make sure things are still relevant and sustainable based on the client's values and the client's vision and the f client's goals. And most importantly the relational capital that's there. And that has to do with the spouse, the children if they have any, some stakeholders in their business. It could be some key people. So planning is one of those things that it doesn't hurt to to open up the book of planning today and and that often starts with just a discovery meeting and what we found is that clients usually come to us because they have a great accountant, they have a great lawyer, but they feel there's something missing. You know, they they feel I think I got it together, but there's something missing. And most often I find that you can have the best practitioners in the world, but no one really asks them about the history of their wealth. why they created what they did, how they feel about their family, how they feel about their kids, are there are they prepared? Are their children prepared? And if they're not, what can they explore to create stronger relationships in the family? Because money can also be a tool that if you don't plan properly, particularly with your wealth, it can actually make your family more become more apart and distance. Because we try to give our fan our kids opportunities so they end up going out of the country and they end up going to another state and all of a sudden this closeness you have to work out a little harder when you have wealth than when you don't have Joe: If one of our listeners wanted to work with you, what would that journey look like Sandy Pollack: Well, if anyone wants to work with us, we have what's called an initial meeting to see if we're the right fit, because we may not be the right fit for everyone. And why did they reach out? And sometimes I'm not the right fit and we can refer them to other advisors. If we determine in that initial meeting that we are the right fit and we go through our process, step one is discovery. And the discovery process is one where we spend a lot of time asking, I would say a lot of open-ended questions. understanding their their journey from how they grew up to how they built their business to why to where it's at today to how they feel some of the challenges along the way and what are their hopes and dreams for themselves and their their families. And also during discovery we get all the stuff. We get, you know, the the wills, financial statements, structures, we get all that, but that we don't even broach in the discovery meeting. The discovery meeting is more qualitative And the quantitative information follows. Once we've gone through the discovery meeting, and sometimes it's two or three. And if it's a family, we'll have a meeting with each member of the family, each of the stakeholders, and that might be children that are active in the business, children that aren't, which is very important. The spouse. And I was at a conference the other week, and someone talked to mentioned something called the silent asset class. Which is the spouse, and how important that silent asset class is. And it's so important to hear their their thoughts because they have a different lens than, let's say, the business owner that's involved in the day to day running of the business. And more often than not, I call that the spouse, the CEO, the chief emotional officer. And Joe: Yeah. Sandy Pollack: the brain is a very funny thing, Joe, because It doesn't necessarily make decisions. If you if you have a logical decision and you're emotional, emotion trumps logic every single time. I don't know why, but that is just how our brain works with this little thing called an amygdala. And and I think it's important to understand that the stakeholders aren't necessarily those that are involved in the family business. It's the family. And what constitutes the family depends on the size of the family business enterprise. But understanding what's keeping them awake at night. And there's a lot keeping them awake at night. so once we go through discovery, and again, it could be interviewing all family members, all stakeholders. We come up with a report, and in the report, we come up with what are the holes in their planning and some possible recommendations to further explore. And some of that could be family meetings, looking at family governance, shareholder agreements, are those properly funded? financial literacy for their children. It astounds me how many people in today's world are being barraged with misinformation. I had one generation three client say to me, Well no, I don't pay the balances off my credit card statement because isn't that a way to get a better credit rating? So I only pay the minimum. And they're He was paying 27% interest a visa, thinking he was doing a good thing, until I explained to him how, you know, the purpose of a credit card, how it works, how the bank gets paid. And after that meeting, it was every and it wasn't that this person didn't have the money in their account. They had the money in their account. They just thought that was good financial planning. And we were able to educate that individual so that all of a sudden he became a little more savvy when it came to you know. financial fluency. So they're all different avenues, but the real key of everything is truly taking the time to understand the client's values, their vision and their goals for themselves as well as their family and their business. Joe: It sounds like a very comprehensive discovery process. Would you be able to share with us a success story? Sandy Pollack: Well I had a situation of two brothers and a brother-in-law. And no, sorry, two brothers and two brother-in-laws that started a business together and it was very successful. And they had seven children actually active in the business. And they had no insurance, they had no shareholder agreement, they were looking at family business transition, their children are all in their twenties, very actively engaged. and didn't even have wills. So we did some work, we were able to secure appropriate life insurance for them. It took many follow-ups for them to finally get their wills in order. And this again is in North America. And unfortunately one of them was on vacation in France and had a bra brain aneurysm and died. And all of a sudden Everybody was scrambling. Before that person died, we were starting to meet with the next generation, generation to the rising generation, to establish what we called some governance. Like how are we going to work together? And and and the four brothers said, Well, listen, we had a secret sauce. And I said, Well, what was your secret sauce? And what they shared with me, which was so unique, was that they said in in another culture, they had a blind eye. Well, tell me more. We don't look at what everybody each of us has. We all work in tandem together and what one person chooses to do with their income or their profits is we don't really care about that. We we have complete trust, everything is equal. So there was never any j there was never any jealousy or envy. And I said, So among all these children, do you think that could happen? That they're just like you? And they both started laughing and they said, Of course not, 'cause they're all so different, right? And so I said, So how are they gonna work together? And we brought up the idea of governance. And so we had many meetings with this rising generation as to how they felt about their dads. You know, what did they think what were their strengths? What did they think the weaknesses were of their fathers, you know, and what what was the vision that they had for this family business that was growing? And we spent many like about a meeting a month where they were able to unpack. We even discussed things like conflicts. And and let's w how do you feel about conflicts? And they were and some said, my god, I avoided. And we talked about, well, was it a people conflict issue or was it like an issue f like just an issue of a conflict? Anyways, over time we were able to actually start creating family business rules, which is governance, how they would handle things of certain scenarios, what the family mission statement was, what what would be their what I would call their compass? So that if anybody veered off, what was the what was baked into the family governance that everyone could go to if they did have a question? And it was and we talked about things ranging from what if one of this generation two has a relationship with an employee? Is that okay? Well, let's talk about it. Should that be that it's like off off the map? And anyways, we had a lot of different conversations and came up with a governance plan that everyone was committed to that everyone felt they were a part of. And I think that's the other thing that we forget is when we're talking about succession planning and estate planning, it's not about for your kids or to your kids, but sometimes it's about with your children. So that they are empowered and part of that process. And in this case, generation two is running the business, has grown the business tremendously. They have this family business rules that's basically tailored to that particular family and are flourishing and are flourishing. And I think that that was very rewarding to see. But it took a lot of work, a lot of questions, a lot of appreciative inquiry, because it's not about what a family is doing wrong. It's what is a family doing right and how can we take those strengths and and and really deploy them in a way That will create a bigger future for them. And and all that the wealth does, more often than not, Joe, what I think in my personal and humble opinion is well, it just softens the edges of life. It's all it's supposed to do. And it's so important that people have purpose and that people develop purpose and confidence and clarity. Because being a of a family that has multi-generational wealth, whether it's two, three, four, fifth generation, there's a lot of stresses and a lot of things that people are not aware of. And they think, you're so lucky because you're born into this family. But they they are living under a shadow. And usually it's a shadow of dad who was so successful. So that if you're able to continue that, they'll say, you only did that because of your father. And if they don't, well you only failed because of you. And they don't understand that they're that family wealth family tr transition in a business is very complex and they need to be supportive in a way that they can be the best version of themselves but also have purpose. And it doesn't mean that they have to stay in a family business either. Then maybe their pursuit is working in a nonprofit or managing a foundation that the family has created. But I think we do not give enough compassion and empathy to multi-generational wealth because there are so many different angles and pressures that they face unknowingly. Who's their friend? Is it because they have this last name or is it because it's really who they are? So I I find that when you're planning and and in in many aspects, generation one, generation two, generation three, it's really important that their advisors understand that each individual in a family has their own unique personality and some of them need the support, maybe it's coaching, maybe it's financial fluency, planning, whatever, so that they are empowered to make decisions and be the best version of themselves so that they can they can make a difference in the world. Joe: If listeners remember only one thing from today's conversation, what do you hope that message is? Sandy Pollack: Be courageous to communicate with your children about your history, about your failures, about money in a way that is parallel to the value system that has brought you to where you are today. And have the courage to open up that conversation, not based on numbers, but based on stories. Joe: that's great advice. So Sandy, where can our audience connect with you? Learn more about your work and and continue this conversation. Sandy Pollack: Well, I wrote a book, Joe, called Don't Leave a Mess, How to Disaster Proof Your Family Legacy, which you can get on Amazon, or you can go on www.dontleaveamess.ca, which is our website that will take you to Amazon wherever you are in the world, in Canada and US and beyond, as well as there are some articles and podcasts. about planning and how planning doesn't have to be like going for a root canal. It can actually be something that can bring families together. And I hope that that is that is my gift to the world was was this book, which is available as well in audio. Joe: I love the title. That was fantastic. So Sandy, thank you so much for joining us Sandy Pollack: It has been a true delight show. I'm trying to get this message out because I feel very strongly that people that have excess wealth, it is their responsibility to leave a legacy of love and not a legacy of lawyers. And with that I say thank you very much for inviting me. Joe: You're welcome. Thanks everyone for listening. If this episode inspired you, share it with someone who needs it. And don't forget to follow the Glovisor Podcast for more conversations that make an impact. Till the next time.