Transcript

Josh Baker · OK SO: Say More

0:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that I have ever been on that stage and not been nervous.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: It just it's a part of it.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to OKSo Say More.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: This podcast is a production of the ongoing OKSo Tulsa live storytelling series.
0:31
SPEAKER_03: Each episode, we talk to storytellers about what they do and how they do it.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: We also share recordings of our storytellers captured live and on stage.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm your co-host, Matthew Weatherby.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm your other co-host, Michelle Bias.
0:45
SPEAKER_03: Today, our guest is Josh Baker.
0:48
SPEAKER_03: Michelle, I'm really excited about our guest today for a number of reasons.
0:52
SPEAKER_03: Josh Baker's a Grand Slam storytelling winner from the 2019 season.
0:58
SPEAKER_03: He's a professor of mathematics at TCC and holds a PhD in mathematics education.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, before the podcast is over, we're going to hear one of Josh's stories, which he told live at the Keynes Ballroom at an event we called the Grand Grand Slam back in the fall of 2024.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: So, Josh, welcome to the podcast.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks for having me.
1:20
SPEAKER_03: My first question for you.
1:22
SPEAKER_03: Yes, sir.
1:23
SPEAKER_03: Dr.
1:23
SPEAKER_03: Baker.
1:25
SPEAKER_03: Josh.
1:26
SPEAKER_03: Dr.
1:27
SPEAKER_03: When and how did you first get involved in live storytelling?
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, it does actually go back to that PhD because I was in a qualitative research class.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: And that's the class that a mathematician does not want to be in because it's all about the stories and the words and the fluffy frou-frou.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: But my professor, Dr.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: Denny Bloom, over here at OSU Tulsa, had been a participant in OKSo and has been in, I think, two Grand Slams.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: But she just threw the suggestion out one night if you want to know how to tell the story of your research, you need to go listen to storytellers and see what this craft looks like.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: So I went home and told my wife, who had had Dr.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Bloom a few semesters previous.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: And uh we invited some friends and we went to Confessions in 2018.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: And that's when I heard Western Doty's story about finding the dead body in the house in Turley, and it was so riveting.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I just became quickly addicted.
2:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:27
SPEAKER_03: Confessions being the theme of that monthly story slam.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: March, because March is always confessions for us.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: And in fact, I told the confession story in 2018 on that IDL stage.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: And I remember Denny Bloom, too.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: She's a great storyteller.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: We haven't seen her in a while.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: She still comes in as in the crowd every once in a while.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: And I always make sure to give her a hug because I just this this is the gift that keeps on giving for me.
2:50
SPEAKER_03: Right.
2:51
SPEAKER_03: So tell us about your first time.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I I so I watched that confession story slam.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: And then the next month, Angela Evans wins the Grand Slam, uh, which is the fifth Grand Slam.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: With the rhinoceros story.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: Yes, with the rhinoceros getting very amorous with uh one Leanne Taylor.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: And uh and so I knew what the gig was.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: I kind of knew okay, this is kind of what I need to be expecting.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: This is what I need to be doing.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: And I got up on stage and I told a story, and I was like, all right, yes.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm also hyper competitive, okay.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: I ran a full marathon just because a half marathon has the word half in front of it.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: So I I knew kind of what I wanted to do, and I got up there and I told a story, and it just didn't go the way that I had planned, but I just kept coming and telling stories.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: And I told stories for six months and didn't place at all, and was just kind of like, okay, what's going on?
3:50
SPEAKER_01: What am I doing?
3:51
SPEAKER_01: What do I need to be changing?
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh, is it the structure?
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Is it the content?
3:56
SPEAKER_01: And then on one magical night, the uh theme was oh you can say it.
4:03
SPEAKER_03: We'll believe it.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: The theme was oh sh.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: And that night, out of the 10 stories that were told, eight of them were about actual.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: And mine was not.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: Mine was about a student who had sent me an email from their phone, and their phone had autocorrected pennies to penis.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: And I got to show it to them, and it was the students oh sh moment.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: And so it was really funny.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: I kind of zigged when everybody else was zagging, and I won that night, and then I had to compete against the six people who had beat me in the in the Grand Slam in 2019.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: And you won.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: And that was very intimidating.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: It's an incredible story you told on that stage as well.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: I I really enjoyed telling that story.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: I always knew that it was the story that I wanted to tell for a Grand Slam if I ever qualified.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: So I purposefully held that one back because it's hard to find another story that juxtaposes the weight and the darkness and heaviness of infertility with the ridiculousness of you mean all I have to do is what all teenage boys do all day long in the summer.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: I and I'm having a problem with it.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just it was it was a dream story.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd would have rather not had the experience of going through it, but if I'm gonna go through it, I'm gonna make something really funny out of it.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: And it's such a great story because everyone remembers it just by, oh yeah, that cob salad story.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: So so it's famous.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: When we were at dinner the other night and JD ordered the cob salad, my head immediately whipped around.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: It was like, oh, cob salad, huh?
5:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Never hear it the same again.
5:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's not the story we're gonna share tonight, but trust me, it is out there on YouTube if uh if anybody wants to.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: If you want to have cob salads ruined for life, go listen to that story.
5:54
SPEAKER_03: So, in case our listeners don't know, once you win a grand slam, your jersey is retired.
6:00
SPEAKER_03: Uh, you don't get to compete anymore.
6:03
SPEAKER_03: But you chose another path, which is storytelling coaching.
6:09
SPEAKER_03: And I want you to talk a little bit about that.
6:13
SPEAKER_03: And you can start anywhere you want.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: So that evolved out of the partnership that TCC Center for Creativity had with the Moth because they were hosting some week-long or sorry, it was like be like two or three weeks intensive uh moth style workshops, right?
6:30
SPEAKER_01: And so Sloane and I did one of those.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: I think I ended up doing four of those through them, and I learned a lot because no, I mean, just like no Story Slam is the same from one month to the other, the workshops are all different too.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: So every all four experiences were completely different.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: So I learned a whole lot from that, took a whole lot, borrowed a whole lot, and whenever uh Branda and Michelle started talking about wanting to do the workshops, I was like, absolutely, that sounds like something I would love to do.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: And every Tuesday night before we have a monthly slam, we meet on Zoom at seven o'clock and we hear stories and we coach people up.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: And it is an interesting experience because sometimes you'll get people who you have never seen, and then sometimes you'll get people who have been on stage four and five and six times.
7:24
SPEAKER_03: Let's say hypothetically, I'm new to it.
7:27
SPEAKER_03: I've never attended one of these Zooms before or attended any kind of a workshop.
7:32
SPEAKER_03: What's it gonna be like?
7:33
SPEAKER_03: What's the first thing that happens?
7:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, the first thing that happens is we just have I have always have a fellow facilitator with me.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: So you've done it a few times, Sloane's done it a lot of times, Christy, Rachel, Rachel Ann, yeah, the the others have have have pitched in.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: So we we introduce ourselves and we kind of give like our credentials, you know, hey, I won this grand slam, he won that grand slam, she won this grand slam, kind of say, hey, we we do know a little bit about what we're talking about.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: So then we get into our workshop guidelines, which are pretty simple.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, you want you want people to listen actively, right?
8:09
SPEAKER_01: Don't listen and just sit there be waiting for your turn to talk, right?
8:13
SPEAKER_01: Let's focus on the storyteller and their story.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: So as someone is telling their story, we're just listening.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: And then we go into this feedback loop.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: And the feedback loop is a positive shout out.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh, well, first there's a check-in.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: How did that story feel?
8:32
SPEAKER_01: How did it feel telling strangers that story, right?
8:35
SPEAKER_01: And there, we only really want whatever their genuine reaction is.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: Man, I'm glad I got that off my chest.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: It was good to get that rough draft out.
8:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, or man, that didn't go the way I thought.
8:46
SPEAKER_03: It's okay.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: And my reply to that one always is hey, it's Tuesday night, not Friday night.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: Right?
8:53
SPEAKER_01: We've we're in the workshop.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: That's what this is for.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: It's not, you're not supposed to be polished yet.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: It's to craft.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Craft the story.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: And so, which does bring in another interesting point, which is it's interesting to see how stories change from Tuesday to Friday.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: I love that part.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: So, the other thing about the workshops and the listening guidelines is not only are you going to give a positive shout-out to someone, but you're also going to get to ask them a question.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: So, while you were in this moment, storyteller, what were you thinking?
9:26
SPEAKER_01: What was going on in your mind?
9:28
SPEAKER_01: Or why was that part of the story important?
9:31
SPEAKER_01: And each of those two things give you two really important pieces of information.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: If someone's asking a why question, you need to give more detail there, right?
9:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, why is that part in the story?
9:44
SPEAKER_01: If it doesn't make sense, I mean, it might make sense to you because you know the full life of the story.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: It's not a five-minute story to you, it's a life experience to you.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: But the on the other side of that, when we're asking for, you know, what are your emotions in that at that time, that means that this is the most important part of your story because this is where people are drawing in.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: This is where they're connecting.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: So then as people are listening to stories during the workshops and they're coming up with what they want their positive shout-out to be and what they want their question or crafting comment to be, one of the things that I always encourage uh everyone to do is to ask questions without hijacking.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: So if you come in to Matthew and tell us a story about an experience that you had when you took your mom on a camping trip, I'm not going to say, oh yeah, that reminds me of when me and my dad went and did this and this and this.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: I've now just hijacked your time.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: So we we try to guard that.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: And we do a pretty good job of it because honestly, the number one thing that I feel is important for these workshops is that we just support each other.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: Just be kind, be loving, be supportive.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: We haven't really had too many people say anything that are too out of pocket in those workshops, uh, because we just have a really good and well-established community.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: But if it does happen, there's some ways to kind of massage that and not make people feel embarrassed.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, I I just told you before we started recording, getting up on stage and telling a story to people who you will never meet, that is one of the most vulnerable exercises you will ever encounter.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: You will not do something more vulnerable than that thing right there.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: That's what makes storytelling so powerful, though, and so impactful.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Is that you're getting up on the stage, you're finding this place of vulnerability within yourself.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: You're telling the story to a room full of strangers, and when you see them engaging with you, like that's almost the feel of like, oh, they are listening.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: And for a lot of people, that's the first time they're seen.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: That's the first time they're heard.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I and I tell storytellers, whenever you see the crowd start to lean forward, you've got them.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: You've got them.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's the magic moment right there.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: Dive in, tell everything right there.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: Because when you get the audience's attention, you need to have a good payoff.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: Which is, you know, I think one of the reasons why the workshop started is because there were so many stories that would be told that would have a good solid ending, a really meaty middle part, but then the storyteller just didn't know how to land the plane, which is a common issue.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I did, I mean, I just told you I lost six times before I won.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: One of the things I had to figure out was how to end a story, you know?
12:34
SPEAKER_01: And so, like helping people through that process, that has really fed me in this community.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so that even though I'm not up on stage telling stories all the time and competing, I'm still having a blast because I'm still getting to connect with new people and I'm getting to share with them this community that I love.
12:55
SPEAKER_03: One other thing I want to point out about the workshops that a first timer is going to have some fear.
13:00
SPEAKER_03: I think one fear is everybody on that Zoom is gonna know each other and nobody's gonna know me.
13:06
SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's not necessarily true.
13:09
SPEAKER_03: I I would say that first timers kind of get priority.
13:13
SPEAKER_03: They get a little bit of special treatment, don't they?
13:16
SPEAKER_01: I usually encourage them to tell their story first because we all know that comparison is the thief of joy, right?
13:23
SPEAKER_01: And so as soon as an experienced storyteller starts to tell a story, someone's gonna start saying, Oh, wait, mine's not good enough.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: It's workshop night, right?
13:34
SPEAKER_01: It's not Friday night yet.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: It's still Tuesday night.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: Let's give your story the time and the space that it needs and the coaching and the feedback that it needs so that it can flourish when you get to Friday.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: And let's talk about that format too, because I know when we've the three of us have talked before, uh, we've talked about like the arc of the storytelling and how you're gonna craft that.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: And so we talked about having your first opening line, like remembering that one, where life was in the beginning, where it changed as the arc, and then how it is now.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: And that's like the format of moths, storytelling, 12-step programs, anything like that.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the arc you take.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: So if a storyteller can come in and get those three, right, then when they get on the stage, what's beautiful is that they kind of put some creative liberties in there.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they say something they didn't work on, maybe they take something out.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: And for me, that's when I know a storyteller is really flowing with their story, when I can hear those three points.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: One of the things that we added onto the document that we have for our guidelines is kind of a combination of something that my wife and and that Sloane said, which is trust your story and trust your audience.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: Just get in the flow of telling your story.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: You don't need to explain every single little thing, right?
14:52
SPEAKER_01: Like who cares that Johnny's mommy's aunt's babysitter didn't no, that's not what matters in the story.
14:58
SPEAKER_03: It was a and I think it was a Tuesday.
14:59
SPEAKER_03: No, wait, it was a Wednesday.
15:01
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: So many people get caught up on that though.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've heard so many stories where they go off on a full minute.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: And it's really easy to get caught up like that.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I do know that that is one of the things that I used to do in stories was I would, I mean, I've got supreme ADHD for adults, okay?
15:21
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, oh, white rabbit, let's chase that one.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: I don't need to explain that.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: I just need to stay within my story and trust the audience is gonna come along for the ride with me.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: Do you have approach when a newcomer comes to the workshop and they are extremely nervous?
15:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, is there anything that you found kind of is your process to calm them down?
15:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't necessarily have a template of the way that, but I I've got kind of a toolkit of things that I'll use.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: So when we're first entering the Zoom, one of the things that I do whenever we have people that we don't know is we are just like, and I don't want to say overly kind, like we're acting, but I want to make sure that they feel welcome.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: Because Matthew, you're not wrong.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people are afraid that they're gonna be the only new person, and that's happened maybe one time, maybe once.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: And in that instance, we just really like loved and cared for that person, right?
16:21
SPEAKER_01: You are one of us.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: We all have stories, we're all just humans, so now we're all now we're all humans on this Zoom call.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but then more specifically, when people talk about, I just don't know what I'm gonna do that night, I'm gonna say, listen, uh, let's just pretend that the three of us in this room are the ones that are on the Zoom.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say, Well, you now know Michelle and you know Matthew and you know me.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: So figure out where we're sitting, and when your name gets called, look at Matthew, a familiar face, and give him your first line.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Then look at Michelle, give her your second line, then look at me, give me your third line, and now you're off and running with people that you know.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: Because it is, I mean, I don't know that I have ever been on that stage and not been nervous.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: It just it's a part of it.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: But you have to, I believe you have to name it, you gotta put it in the corner, and you gotta not let it get too big.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: And one of the ways in which you can do that is memorizing the first three lines and then delivering those three lines to people who have familiar faces.
17:26
SPEAKER_03: I think this is a good time to play Josh's story for our audience.
17:31
SPEAKER_03: There's some well, obviously there's gonna be some things we want to talk about when this story is over, but to give you a brief introduction, Josh told this story at the Grand Grand Slam.
17:42
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna say this uh was the fall of 2024.
17:47
SPEAKER_03: Another great thing about this event is it took place at the Keynes Ballroom.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: So this uh for lack of a better introduction, this is a story about two very different car rides.
18:00
SPEAKER_03: So I want you all to enjoy Joshua's story right now, and we'll talk some more when it's over.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: The sheer panic on Alicia's face when she woke me up that morning was immediately evident.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: After nine years of struggling with infertility, we were finally pregnant with twins.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: But when I asked her what was wrong, she told me that she was spotting heavily.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: In the back of my mind, I was thinking, oh God, here we go again.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: After six miscarriages, I just knew that this was going to be another end to yet another pregnancy, and it was gonna be painful.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: But to Alicia, I remained calm.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: And we collected our things and we began our journey to the OBGYN.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: The air in the car thickened with unspoken words of anxiety that hung like a heavy fog over us.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: We played no music, there were no noises in the car except for the ticking of my wristwatch and an occasional sniffle.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: While we didn't share words, what we did share were tears and stomach-turning dread.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: But when we got to the ultrasound, it showed that both of the kids were going to be fine.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: Alicia and I were gonna be parents.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: And it was in this moment of joy that the doctor snapped his head around and said, Would you like to know the gender of one of the babies?
19:14
SPEAKER_01: And with only a glance, Alicia and I immediately said yes.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: And we found out we were gonna have a girl.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: In just a few moments, I had gone from unhurt and sorrow to relief, to this fairy tale transformation into being a girl dad.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: And I was elated to be a girl dad.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: In researching names, I had found out that the name Abigail meant a father's delight.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: So this child was going to be named Abigail.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: Now, in my family, the tradition is that the boys get the initials J-A-B.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: I am Joshua Aaron Baker, my brother is Jared Allen Baker, and his son is Jordan Anthony Baker.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: So I will admit that I did kind of want the other baby to be a boy so that I could participate in that tradition.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: But family, it was girl number two.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: And I was in no way disappointed.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: How could I be disappointed?
20:10
SPEAKER_01: We were gonna have the family that we had wanted for so long.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Growing up, Abigail was always the one to take the lead.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: If the kids were pretend playing from a TV show, Abby was the lead character, like Dora and Diego.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: Emily, on the other hand, is very much like me.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: She's a fun-loving troublemaker, but she is also sweet and kind and full of compassion.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: When the twins were 11 years old, Abigail spoke up one night at dinner and said that she didn't feel like she was a girl and thought that she might be gay or bi, but just not straight.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: At least when I accepted this news, but this was very contrary to the way that we were raised.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: I, like many Oklahomans, were raised in an evangelical household.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: And at church, we learned what was right and what was wrong and what was very wrong.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: In my adulthood, I've cast most of those beliefs aside, but at that night, at that dinner, I made a mistake.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: Knowing that my child had a tendency to fall down all sorts of rabbit holes, I looked at her and I said, Abigail, you know you're only 11.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to have all of this figured out just yet.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: In my mind, I was just telling my child to continue to be a child and not feel the pressure to have every nuance of your life figured out right now.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: But to Abby, what I had said was, you need to ignore those feelings.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: I still have a very hard time forgiving myself for this.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: But as Maya Angelo says, once you know better, do better.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: While seeking to know better, I listened to a podcast and I heard the father of a transitioning child.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: And what I learned was this as parents, it is not our job to help our children fulfill our dreams for their life, rather, it It's our job to help them become the best versions of themselves.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Know better, do better.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: I also came to realize that my complete understanding of the LGBTQIA community is not a prerequisite to love, safety, and acceptance.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: I do know.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: I do know that gender and sexual identity are they totally different things.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: But I don't have to know every single flag, all of the color schemes, and all of the terms to treat people with just dignity and basic human kindness.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: Three years ago, Abigail spoke up at dinner again one more time and asked if we could use the pronouns they, them.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: Not wanting to repeat my mistake, I immediately said yes.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: But that was going to be a process.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, for 14 years, G was my daughter.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: But now that I knew better, it was on me to do better.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: Knowing that I didn't want to dead name my own kid, I asked if Abigail was still the correct name, and it was.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: Raising a trans child that's bisexual in this state is no easy task.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: Difficult conversations with relatives, fear of what's going to happen at school, and state officials using their offices to dox vulnerable children leave me with a feeling of constant anxiety because I only want my child and both of my children to live their best lives and be treated as fully human, just like anybody else does.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: About a year ago, Abby and I were on our way back from a rock and roll concert.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I raised my kids correctly.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: And they shared with me how I'd made them feel that night.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't easy for me to hear, but I am positive that it was easier for me to hear that than it was for them to hear that.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: They told me where they stood on gender and sexual fluidity.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: And as they did, I just felt this tidal wave of gratitude walked over me because not only had I lived my previous mistake down, but my kid knew that their dad was a safe place.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: This car ride had none of the tension and anxiety and fear that the emergency trip to the OBGYN had, only love, accepted, and safety.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: Abby recently got a job at a movie theater, and when they came home from their first shift, they showed me their name tag, and the name was Jay.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: So the J A B tradition is still alive on my side.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: They knew how important this was to me, and they gave it to me as a gift.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: Throughout this entire journey, I thought that my kid was the only one that was transitioning, but they weren't.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: They were always there.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: Jay was always there.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: In reality, I was the one that had transitioned into a better version of myself.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: So while neither Jay nor Abigail mean a father's delight, I will continue to delight in my children.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: Kids, you are everything, everywhere, all at once.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: Wow, Josh.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, every time I hear that story, I'm emotional.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's kind of hard not to get choked off with that one.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: We're just letting it land.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, you and I share something with that.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Um that moment that your daughter tells you this is how the world's gonna be now.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: This is your world, this is how you will experience me.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes, right?
25:50
SPEAKER_00: What was that like?
25:52
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's always kind of the traditional, like, what does this mean for me type things, right?
25:58
SPEAKER_01: So you know, my daughter is now my son.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not gonna be walking my daughter down the aisle, I'm gonna have a son if they get married.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: Who knows what that means.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but then also, you know, what does that mean in general?
26:16
SPEAKER_01: And I was I feel like I was good at rolling with the punches and just kind of knowing that you just take things as they are presented and you don't have to read into everything.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: But pretty quickly after I had those moments of what does this mean for me, I was like, okay, so you are now going to be a target for a lot of hateful people.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: And I'm your dad, and I want to protect you from all of that.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's exactly how I felt when my daughter came out at 25, which was five years ago now.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, your first thing is, yes, I want you to live your truth, and then immediately it is, oh, I want you to be safe.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I part of the story towards the end, I I just talk about both of my kids and just wanting them to live their life as a full human being, and not to be denied anything because of any kind of lifestyle or any choice or whatever may have you.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: Or just live in their truth.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: Just living their life, just let people live.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: And I think that one of the things that I got a lot of really good feedback on from that story is my line of you don't have to understand every single thing about that community to love and accept and be kind to that community.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to know all of it, you just have to be kind.
27:50
SPEAKER_03: Agreed.
27:51
SPEAKER_03: So I think all storytellers are essentially their writers.
27:56
SPEAKER_03: You're not reading from a page, but you've put some thought into that story.
28:01
SPEAKER_03: And every time I hear a story, I always write down my favorite line.
28:04
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
28:06
SPEAKER_03: The air in the car thickened with unspoken words of anxiety that hung like a heavy fog over us.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: And you know, the key word there is anxiety because we didn't know if we we didn't know what the outcome was driving to the OBGYN.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Are the kids gone or are they still viable?
28:28
SPEAKER_01: Right?
28:29
SPEAKER_01: Is this the worst day of our life or is this the best day of our life?
28:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, talk about just two completely different outcomes we didn't know, and we had a two-hour car ride back home, and the atmosphere in that car was extremely thick, and everything I said absolutely held true to what the environment was for that car ride.
28:55
SPEAKER_03: The other thing I love about this story is both of your kids were in the audience at the Keynes Ballroom when you told it.
29:02
SPEAKER_03: How did that feel?
29:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it was great.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: It was great.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: I loved being able to tell the story in front of my son to show them in front of a crowd of 700 strangers that I support you and I love you and I don't care about anything else.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: But it was also nice to get to have my daughter Emily there, who uh, you know, we just always have this like razzing each other rapport.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: Rapor.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we just were always we're always like trying to scare each other or trying to make each other laugh.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: And I needed her there that night because I was so nervous.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: This was my first time being on Kane's stage telling a story.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: And so I was extremely nervous, and I needed her there so that she could just have a little bit of that levity, and she provided it to me right at halftime, and it got me right to where I needed to be so that I could go on stage and tell that story about Jay.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: Which was so important to me.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, and you repeat a line throughout that entire story, which is know better, do better.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: And that comes from Maya Angelou and you know, the just the experience of if you're ignorant about a topic, and first of all, I don't think that ignorance is pejorative at all.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: It just means you don't know, right?
30:19
SPEAKER_01: You don't know what you don't know.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: So once you find out, now it's time to do better.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Right?
30:24
SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, kind of like the cob salad story, I use that as kind of a through line for the second half of the story.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh this is the thread that connects everything together.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: Once you know better, it's time to do better.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: It's how I actually describe that story.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: If people ask me, like, what's what story did Josh tell?
30:41
SPEAKER_00: I say, you know, know better, do better.
30:43
SPEAKER_03: No better, do better.
30:45
SPEAKER_03: So back to coaching for a minute, there's something I want to point out about Josh that, well, I'm proud of, but I know that he's proud of.
30:53
SPEAKER_03: Of the last five annual Grand Slam storytelling winners, Josh Baker has coached four of them.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, he's competitive.
31:02
SPEAKER_03: What an accomplishment.
31:04
SPEAKER_03: So the one year I was fortunate enough to win the Grand Slam, Josh was my coach that year, and Josh, I'm forever grateful for the help that I got from you that year.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: But the only time he lost, though, I mean, the only time he lost was to a story that really could not have been beaten.
31:22
SPEAKER_01: Right.
31:23
SPEAKER_01: So who knew Christy Barlow had a bank robber in her back pocket?
31:26
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
31:27
SPEAKER_03: Christy Barlow was the coach.
31:29
SPEAKER_03: Correct.
31:29
SPEAKER_03: Her student was a bank robber, and there's no way the bank robber was going to lose that year.
31:34
SPEAKER_03: No.
31:34
SPEAKER_03: So we're going to give you a pass on that here.
31:36
SPEAKER_03: That's fine.
31:36
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
31:37
SPEAKER_03: But I want you to talk a little bit about the difference between preparing a grand slam storyteller versus coaching a first-timer.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: So there's huge differences.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh if you I'm going to answer this in three levels: a first-time storyteller, someone who's been to the workshops and is coming back to the workshop, and then a grand slam.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: So someone who comes in the first time, I will only speak critically if someone does say anything out of turn.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: If you say something out of pocket, I feel obligated to say something.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: Other than that, it is, we're so happy to have you here.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: Think about telling your story this way.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: Think about these pieces.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you want to move this here.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: Here's a line suggestion.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: Maybe this is your first line, maybe this is your last line, but I don't really go much past that because managing the nerves and the anxiety is really job number one at that point for me, in my opinion.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: Now, if we have someone that has told stories and they come back to the workshops and maybe they've been to workshops before, but now they're back this time too.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, I will go a little bit further with them.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: I'll be like, I'm not sure that you want to say that right there.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you need to soften the language and say it this way.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: Right.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: So I'll get just a half step more critical.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: Now, when you're working with me for a Grand Slam, the first thing that I'm gonna ask you is, what's your goal?
33:04
SPEAKER_01: Do you want to win?
33:06
SPEAKER_01: Do you just want to represent yourself well?
33:08
SPEAKER_01: Do you not want to embarrass yourself?
33:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you just want to get through it.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: Correct, because all answers are valid.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: The people who tell me they want to win, I say, okay, that means I'm gonna push you.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: That means I'm gonna question all of your choices in this story, and you better be ready for it.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, in the end, you will not have a bigger cheerleader than me, and you will not have a bigger fan than me because I'm gonna be supporting you.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: But I am going to tear apart your story just to kind of make you justify things.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times, through that justification process, it kind of helps the storyteller say, you know what?
33:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't really need that segment of the story.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: That's extra.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: That doesn't serve the main feeling, the main takeaway that I want people to have when they finish listening to my story.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: And so uh it's helpful in a lot of different ways, but I do get pretty critical.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I pushed a storyteller completely off a story one time.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: They told me a story, I didn't get it.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: And then they told me another one.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: I was like, good God, why'd you tell me that other story?
34:11
SPEAKER_01: This one, this one, and then they won.
34:13
SPEAKER_03: So it's possible they might need to scrap their whole first idea.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, so here's what's interesting about that.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: I will actually call this person out by name.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: It was Jordan Price.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: And that story that I didn't get the first time, she ended up using that for her grand-grandslam story, but it was much more refined and it was ready for the big time.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: And so at that point, I got it and I'm like, cool, run with it.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, like writing, people have to be willing to lose the parts they love, right?
34:41
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it makes all the difference.
34:43
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: Josh, it's been so great to have you here on the show today.
34:47
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely loved having you here today.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're one of our favorite people, and just quickly, like, what's your favorite part about the okay so community?
34:55
SPEAKER_01: It's the community.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: It's the fact that it is a living, breathing, vibrant community.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we support each other and we love each other.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, before you go, we want to do this little thing with you, what we call okay so point blank.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: So just give me your first quick answer.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: What's your favorite word?
35:12
SPEAKER_01: Basketball.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: Least favorite word.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: No.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: What turns you on creatively?
35:18
SPEAKER_01: People who know who they are.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: What's your favorite curse word?
35:25
SPEAKER_00: What profession other than the one you have right now would you actually like to attempt if there was nothing that could stop you?
35:32
SPEAKER_01: I think I would have liked to have tried to be a therapist.
35:35
SPEAKER_03: Josh, this has been fun.
35:36
SPEAKER_03: Thanks again.
35:37
SPEAKER_03: Thank you, guys.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for having me, guys.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: It's produced, recorded, and edited mainly at the Public Radio Tulsa Studios in Kendall Hall on the University of Tulsa campus.
36:17
SPEAKER_02: The nonprofit long-running OKSo Tulsa Story Slam series was co-founded by Brand Pearsall and Michelle Baez.
36:26
SPEAKER_02: For more on OKSO Tulsa, including how to attend and or participate in its many various storytelling competitions and events, please visit OKSotulsa.com.
36:38
SPEAKER_02: This OKSo Say More podcast is co-hosted by Michelle Bias and Matthew Weatherby, and it's recorded and edited by Matthew Weatherby with editorial and production help from me, Scott Gregory, at Public Radio Tulsa.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: You can contact this podcast by visiting OKSotulsa.com and then clicking on Connect with Us, and you can learn more about the station and find more episodes of this free on-demand podcast at publicradulsa.org.
37:07
SPEAKER_02: We hope listening to this podcast has inspired you to attend an Okeso Tulsa event and maybe even tell a story yourself.
37:15
SPEAKER_02: Again, to learn more about how to do that, it's OKSotulsa.com.
37:20
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening to OKSo Say More, Be Well, Be Heard, and Be Receptive.