Latest / The Sober Creative Podcast / Episode 060 - Chasing Curiosity Instead of Chasing Quiet: Bob Mathers Found There Was No Ceiling Once He Stopped Drinking

Transcript

Episode 060 - Chasing Curiosity Instead of Chasing Quiet: Bob Mathers Found There Was No Ceiling Once He Stopped Drinking · The Sober Creative Podcast

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SPEAKER_01: All right, welcome everyone to the Sober Creative Podcast.
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SPEAKER_01: Every person...
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SPEAKER_01: Oops, I forgot, I made a mistake here.
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SPEAKER_01: I gotta put on my take two.
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SPEAKER_01: I gotta foot on the AI prompt here.
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SPEAKER_01: Alright, alright, here we go.
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SPEAKER_01: Round two.
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SPEAKER_01: Welcome everyone to The Sober creative podcast.
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SPEAKER_01: Every person you're about to hear
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SPEAKER_01: made one decision that changed everything
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SPEAKER_01: and none of them would tell you it was easy.
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SPEAKER_01: These are conversations centered around sobriety, creativity and the willingness to become
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SPEAKER_01: the person who doesn't let alcohol get in the way of the life they're trying to build.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm your host Josh Woll and I'm honored to bring you today's guest.
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SPEAKER_01: Bob Mathers is a speaker coach and podcast host his show The Growth Mixtape is where
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SPEAKER_01: every other week he talks with leaders in business sciences academia and the arts here
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SPEAKER_01: on his Substack his publication as The Restless Leader
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SPEAKER_01: he writes for people who had a successful career
1:00
SPEAKER_01: and are now feeling restless wondering what else they're supposed to be doing with
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SPEAKER_01: the time that they have left bob describes himself as a big deal on the outside and
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SPEAKER_01: a scared little kid on the inside and the last several years have been about proving
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SPEAKER_01: that second part wrong he got sober he rebuilt friendships he'd assumed would always
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SPEAKER_01: take care of themselves and last month at 55 he wrote his first song
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SPEAKER_01: over a single weekend at a songwriting retreat about a drive
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SPEAKER_01: with his mother he never planned on turning into anything
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SPEAKER_01: at all bob's writing is honest about fear about friendship and
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SPEAKER_01: about what gets uncovered once the noise falls away so please welcome
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SPEAKER_01: and welcoming bob matters to the show hey bob hey josh man what
1:48
SPEAKER_01: an intro god i was getting emotional there i was like oh my god josh is speaking
1:54
SPEAKER_01: to my soul
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SPEAKER_01: hey i i love doing those man they're so so good and it's it's like the research
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SPEAKER_01: that comes that i do ahead of time too man and finesse it so yeah i love
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SPEAKER_00: that too it's like wow that's me i'm doing all those things that's freaking amazing
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SPEAKER_00: right somebody it's just somebody holding up a mirror to the things that you're
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SPEAKER_00: that you're out there doing it's like oh god damn look at me
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SPEAKER_01: i know i know right i know yeah because it's it's unfortunately we're not that kind
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SPEAKER_01: to ourselves you know on a regular basis so it's it's nice to reflect that that back
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SPEAKER_01: so i um well yeah i mean it's we can go into
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SPEAKER_01: so many different things i guess let's start with um yeah when what was
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SPEAKER_01: when did you start drinking like what was that like early early on
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SPEAKER_00: i i've been thinking about this lately i'm trying to remember if i i'm trying
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SPEAKER_00: to remember if i remember my first drink and i think i do i think it was
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SPEAKER_00: a labat blue that i stole out of my dad's fridge he would him and his mom him
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SPEAKER_00: and my mom would come home and they would say you know bob go and take the case
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SPEAKER_00: of beer out of the car you know the old stubbies the bottles and take it down
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SPEAKER_00: into our rec room and load it into the fridge and they were probably going
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SPEAKER_00: to have friends over or something and i guess i was acting a little weird
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SPEAKER_00: and so my mom went down later and she counted 23 bottles in
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SPEAKER_00: the fridge i guess i didn't i didn't uh i wasn't expecting that anybody would notice
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SPEAKER_00: or that she would have counted and she probably wouldn't have if i wasn't acting
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SPEAKER_00: a little weird um so anyway i don't i think i took it in the backyard and sipped
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SPEAKER_00: on it and it was actually really gross but i loved the way it made me feel
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SPEAKER_00: and i think i was about 17 and i was shy and awkward and it just seemed like
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SPEAKER_00: the answer
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SPEAKER_00: to being the person that I wanted to be.
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SPEAKER_00: and Charming
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SPEAKER_00: Normally
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SPEAKER_00: so yeah
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SPEAKER_00: i think That's How It Started
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SPEAKER_00: and
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SPEAKER_00: that's Probably
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SPEAKER_00: how a lot of people
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SPEAKER_00: get started
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SPEAKER_00: it just Turned Me Into The Version
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SPEAKER_00: that I Want People To See
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SPEAKER_00: you know i it projected this version of me that i felt like i wanted to feel on
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SPEAKER_01: the inside i guess yeah well yeah i i'm sure so many people relate to
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SPEAKER_01: that i mean i i i relate to it as well yeah i mean my brother gave me my first one
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SPEAKER_01: and it was disgusting as well yeah yeah it's never
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SPEAKER_00: so delicious now it's like probably be some delicious like vodka cooler you know
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SPEAKER_00: some
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SPEAKER_00: you know fruity thing i can't imagine how much more i would have taken to it
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SPEAKER_00: if it actually tasted good i had to acquire a taste for it yeah and they have um
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SPEAKER_01: to have these things called buzz balls now have you seen
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SPEAKER_00: that no they sound dangerous they're really good marketing whatever it is it sounds
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SPEAKER_01: i mean it's really what i was looking for it's brilliant marketing
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SPEAKER_01: but it's like these big colorful balls
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SPEAKER_01: that look like giant christmas ornaments but they have a shit ton
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SPEAKER_01: of alcohol like like the the percentage of it is very high
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SPEAKER_01: so you could pretty much i think get wasted off of one um
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SPEAKER_01: but yeah it's it's pretty dangerous so that's that's i have two boys
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SPEAKER_00: in their early 20s and i think i've seen a buzz ball okay okay yeah you have
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SPEAKER_00: to ask them now i'm sure they know exactly what i'm talking about
5:44
SPEAKER_01: wait how did you learn about buzz balls right um well okay so
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SPEAKER_01: then high school college um through your career and such would you say
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SPEAKER_01: that like it became a big a big part
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SPEAKER_00: of your life yes i mean that's yeah i couldn't have said it better um
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SPEAKER_00: I would say from, you know, it's interesting.
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SPEAKER_00: I think of my life generally in terms of decades, right?
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SPEAKER_00: So I can think of mine and my 20s.
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SPEAKER_00: Friday and Saturday were a given.
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SPEAKER_00: We were going out and we were giving it hard.
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SPEAKER_00: I was kind of always the guy that was up for anything.
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SPEAKER_00: So everybody would go out Friday and Sunday
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SPEAKER_00: but then there'd be a small group of people
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SPEAKER_00: that might want to go out on a Thursday
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SPEAKER_00: and then a small group of people that might want to go on a sunday and
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SPEAKER_00: so very few people drank thursday to sunday but they always knew who to call
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SPEAKER_00: when they wanted to have a good time and not feel bad about it so i was sort of like
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SPEAKER_00: the person that always seemed to be going out one or two days more
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SPEAKER_00: than everyone else i would say and that continued
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SPEAKER_00: you know i had kids so i guess it slowed down a little bit but we also moved into
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SPEAKER_00: a neighborhood that was full of young parents and young kids and lots
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SPEAKER_00: of dinner parties and it really didn't slow down as much as i think any
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SPEAKER_00: of us expected and certainly it probably wasn't four days a week
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SPEAKER_00: but it was consistently two days a week three sometimes four and then
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SPEAKER_00: of course you'd have the big boys weekends which would you know are the
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SPEAKER_00: the boys fishing trips and stuff that would
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SPEAKER_00: you know you'd really drop the hammer they got harder and harder to recover
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SPEAKER_00: from every time but that core you know two three days a week i would say from
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SPEAKER_00: the time i was 17 to the time i was 52 i could count
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SPEAKER_00: on one hand how many weekends i took off wow wow that's that's impressive that
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SPEAKER_01: that that's like that not that you did that but like you can remember
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SPEAKER_01: that that's wow there's a lot there's a lot yeah i mean i
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SPEAKER_01: i tracked for like so many years and just looked you know pumped that
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SPEAKER_01: into you know this was back then but like pumped it to where it was like there was
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SPEAKER_01: an app that like could show me like the patterns and all of it and it was so wild
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SPEAKER_01: to look at like how many how many it was um how long have you been sober
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SPEAKER_01: five and a half years august will be august will be six so maybe a little bit more
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SPEAKER_00: but yeah yeah how about you um i i say i'm in my fifth year because it's just
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SPEAKER_00: over four but i like saying i'm in my fifth because it's five always seems like
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SPEAKER_00: a real like i'm sure anybody listening or you josh that when you when you were
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SPEAKER_00: at day one
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SPEAKER_00: and i don't know how many day ones you've had but your last day one thinking
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SPEAKER_00: about five years seemed like an eternity and now
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SPEAKER_00: that you can actually see it it just feels like something
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SPEAKER_00: that i'm i'm incredibly proud of and i want to celebrate but uh so that's why i sort
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SPEAKER_00: of i'm kind of rounding up but it's really been four and maybe four and
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SPEAKER_01: a half yeah you're so right you know it's it's it's like we we don't know
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SPEAKER_01: until we know you know it's it's it's it's so hard to
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SPEAKER_01: yeah it's so hard to like know like what life is going to be like you know and and
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SPEAKER_01: at that time it's like you're so dependent on this thing and life is like
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SPEAKER_01: so many things like can shift you know around making the adjustment with it you know
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SPEAKER_01: in regards to friends family work um yeah because it's just so deeply ingrained in
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SPEAKER_01: in so many areas of our life so um okay so
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SPEAKER_01: let's jump into you mentioned in your linkedin post
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SPEAKER_01: about darkness like tell me like did that start early like can you fill me in
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SPEAKER_01: on like if you'd like to share like some thoughts around that
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SPEAKER_00: which what you meant yeah i don't remember a
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SPEAKER_00: lot of real darkness sort of in my 20s
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SPEAKER_00: and 30s like we'd get
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SPEAKER_00: it's funny i mean we'd get hungover and we'd commiserate and we'd sit around
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SPEAKER_00: and you know eat junk food and just like ride it out in your 20s and even
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SPEAKER_00: in your 30s um but an interesting thing happens as i'm watching my young sons go
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SPEAKER_00: through this you know i always i always hear
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SPEAKER_00: about how younger people aren't drinking anymore my kids didn't get
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SPEAKER_00: that memo um now they don't drink like i drank
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SPEAKER_00: i do think at least from what i've seen they're they're more moderate about it
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SPEAKER_00: but um but i do see them in a hangover and i see anxiety in them
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SPEAKER_00: that now i recognize like i didn't have words for it but now i think back you know
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SPEAKER_00: because we always like to think oh i was in my 20s i didn't get hung over
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SPEAKER_00: and now i watch them i'm like oh yeah like i see the anxiety in them
10:58
SPEAKER_00: and i realized that i was riddled with anxiety too i just nobody talked
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SPEAKER_00: about anxiety in the 80s i didn't even know what it was um
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SPEAKER_00: so i wouldn't say it was darkness but the darkness really came i would say in
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SPEAKER_00: the last maybe five years before i quit so i quit when i was 52 just
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SPEAKER_00: over four years ago um and it just felt like this thing that used
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SPEAKER_00: to make me more social and more fun and
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SPEAKER_00: make me feel like a part of a group was increasingly isolating
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SPEAKER_00: and i was hiding my drinking more and um and lying more and so not even in
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SPEAKER_00: the last five years i mean covid sort of accelerated that thing like i think a lot
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SPEAKER_00: of us um you know at least a lot of us are our friends i mean i'm not gonna lie
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SPEAKER_00: to you we had a great time during covid
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SPEAKER_00: i mean we had backyard parties and um but it did accelerate and then for me
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SPEAKER_00: as life sort of transitioned back to normal it never really settled down so i quit
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SPEAKER_00: in you know finally quit in 2022 but it seemed like it just felt more and more alone
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SPEAKER_00: and i often say
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SPEAKER_00: i'm sure i gotta believe josh whether it's you
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SPEAKER_00: or other people listening like this negotiation that i started doing
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SPEAKER_00: because i would wake up and i'd be in the shit house with my wife
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SPEAKER_00: and i didn't really remember much about anything that happened after dinner and
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SPEAKER_00: so i'd be like okay you know sweetie things are going to change and i tried all
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SPEAKER_00: the rules right
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SPEAKER_00: no beers over five percent no mixing beer and wine no drinking on
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SPEAKER_00: a sunday no drinking before four o'clock and i tried every combination
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SPEAKER_00: of these different rules negotiating with myself trying to convince myself
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SPEAKER_00: that i could find a way through this that i can control this thing
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SPEAKER_00: that ultimately i had to realize that when all
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SPEAKER_00: of those options were gone i had tried everything and the only thing left was
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SPEAKER_00: i've got to stop like i'm powerless as soon as i have one drink sure it's possible
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SPEAKER_00: that i'll stop at three or four like
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SPEAKER_00: that i'm not saying that's never happened it is possible yeah but there's nothing
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SPEAKER_00: in my history that tells me that even if i do stop after three or four
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SPEAKER_00: that tomorrow i'll stop at three or four and the next day i'll stop at three
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SPEAKER_00: or four it always ends the same way and all of these rules would last two weeks
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SPEAKER_00: and things would get better and bob seems to be doing a little better
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SPEAKER_00: and i'd wake up on sunday morning
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SPEAKER_00: and i'd wake up and look over at my wife
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SPEAKER_00: and be like oh fuck i can't believe it like it just happened again oh god that was
13:44
SPEAKER_01: so good man that was so so good thank you that was yeah uh oh wow
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SPEAKER_01: so powerful um
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SPEAKER_01: oh yeah i relate to it so much um what do you think like
14:02
SPEAKER_01: you know
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SPEAKER_01: when you tried everything but like you
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SPEAKER_01: you know what was the poll like internally going on in your mind of
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SPEAKER_01: when you start back up again like can you can you think of what was the draw
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SPEAKER_01: of wanting to start again yeah that's
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SPEAKER_00: a great question josh i think i was i was just stuck in this cycle for so long
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SPEAKER_00: that you wake up on monday and just this
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SPEAKER_00: And the anxiety, just riddled with anxiety and the shame.
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SPEAKER_00: And I guess I learned to live with it.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, OK, I just need a good sleep.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: I need to get some exercise.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: You need to sweat this shit out of me.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: And so if you think about well-being or just maybe your mood on a scale
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SPEAKER_00: of one to 10, I would wake up on a Monday on a two.
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SPEAKER_00: Like I was like, holy shit, cancel my meetings for the day.
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SPEAKER_00: i can't let anybody see me like this i go for long walks so my my wife
15:03
SPEAKER_00: and my kids i would get up i'd be gone from the house before they got up
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SPEAKER_00: and they would be gone to school or work by
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SPEAKER_00: the time i got home i didn't want anybody to see me like that and i just sort
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SPEAKER_00: of like ride it out try to get through monday so monday i'm
15:16
SPEAKER_00: a two wednesday i'm still pretty low i'm a five but by thursday i'm a seven
15:24
SPEAKER_00: and friday morning i'm a nine
15:26
SPEAKER_00: And Friday morning,
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SPEAKER_00: I just wake up and like, OK, so what do we got to do before four o 'clock today?
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SPEAKER_00: What's you know who what do мы got going on?
15:33
SPEAKER_00: Is it a dinner party?
15:35
SPEAKER_00: And.
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SPEAKER_00: I guess I just learned to live in this cycle.
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SPEAKER_00: And.
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SPEAKER_00: It just became normal.
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SPEAKER_00: Even though I'd wake up with that, you know, the anxiety and self-loathing on Monday morning,
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SPEAKER_00: I just learn, you Know what is temporary by just gonna ride it out, take it day by day.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: and by thursday or friday you'll feel like yourself and then somebody will want
16:01
SPEAKER_00: to go out and have a good time on friday and that's i would say how it you know two
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SPEAKER_00: or three years leading up to the day that i quit
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SPEAKER_00: so it wasn't i i i very rarely woke up on monday saying i really think i have
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SPEAKER_00: a problem i think i have to quit it was more just here we go again you know
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SPEAKER_00: the routine get some sleep go for a walk
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SPEAKER_00: you know hide away don't let clients or or friends anybody see you for a couple
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SPEAKER_00: of days and and just get right back at it on thursday or friday
16:36
SPEAKER_01: and you just get tired of that cycle yeah yeah i mean i'm 44
16:41
SPEAKER_01: and i'm just seeing like i think too it's like the the the gap of our lives starts
16:50
SPEAKER_01: to to shrink you know and it becomes so
16:55
SPEAKER_01: like so much more important of of like hey what am i doing with this time you know
17:01
SPEAKER_01: and you're not really thinking about that when like you're
17:04
SPEAKER_01: in your teenage years like you've got i've got fucking forever
17:08
SPEAKER_01: so yeah do you feel like that played that played into it
17:15
SPEAKER_00: so i i tell you i don't know if it did at the time
17:19
SPEAKER_00: I remember when I it was a Monday morning it was the Monday after Easter Sunday
17:24
SPEAKER_00: in 2022 when it was a particularly messy you know family dinner and I woke up
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SPEAKER_00: and I don't know what changed but I came home after a walk and I came home
17:35
SPEAKER_00: with my wife and I just sort of collapsed in her arms and said I think I have
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SPEAKER_00: to quit
17:41
SPEAKER_00: and that was I guess day one
17:46
SPEAKER_00: and I did start feeling
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SPEAKER_00: this sense of urgency to make up for the time that i lost and that's what led me
17:57
SPEAKER_00: to launching my podcast the growth mixtape probably less than a year
18:01
SPEAKER_00: into my sobriety and i started exploring different you know my speaking career
18:07
SPEAKER_00: and different parts of my business that i never would have had the capacity
18:10
SPEAKER_00: to even dream of before because i was just in this routine of kind of getting
18:15
SPEAKER_00: through each week
18:17
SPEAKER_00: but then something happened with my son where he was um they found a mass
18:22
SPEAKER_00: on his brain and it was terrifying they rushed him into surgery after he collapsed
18:29
SPEAKER_00: in a restaurant we were out on a friday night as a family and he had been sick for a
18:33
SPEAKER_00: while he'd lost a lot of weight they didn't know what was wrong so we rushed him to
18:38
SPEAKER_00: the er and the doctors were going to send him home and my wife said
18:43
SPEAKER_00: you're not we're not leaving this hospital until you find out
18:46
SPEAKER_00: until you tell me what's wrong with them so they did a cat scan
18:49
SPEAKER_00: and they found this mass of bacteria uh just above his left eye
18:54
SPEAKER_00: which was putting pressure on his brain and causing all these symptoms
18:57
SPEAKER_00: so they rushed him into surgery and they drained his sack
19:00
SPEAKER_00: and he was he's fully recovered but of course we had no idea and
19:06
SPEAKER_00: for anyone that's had something like that happen to a son or a loved one or it's
19:11
SPEAKER_00: a diagnosis
19:13
SPEAKER_00: man life just gets really simple really fast and i just thought i just didn't want
19:21
SPEAKER_00: to waste like a single day
19:25
SPEAKER_00: you know back where i was or doing things
19:29
SPEAKER_00: that you know didn't make a difference and
19:32
SPEAKER_00: so it was those two things i think my sobriety i mean going through that
19:36
SPEAKER_00: if i was still drinking i don't even know what would have happened
19:39
SPEAKER_00: to my life i'm just so grateful that i was a couple years sober when that happened
19:44
SPEAKER_00: and that we managed it the way we did but those two things and we talk
19:48
SPEAKER_00: about you know cracking open my curiosity
19:51
SPEAKER_00: and exploring my creativity i don't think i don't think i am where i am today
19:57
SPEAKER_00: without both of those things kind of happening when they happened in
20:00
SPEAKER_00: the sequence they happened it's just funny how life sort
20:06
SPEAKER_00: of gives you these things maybe when you need them most
20:10
SPEAKER_01: oh man i felt that oh man i'm so happy that you guys got through
20:19
SPEAKER_01: that your son's your son's doing well so thank you yeah that might be
20:23
SPEAKER_00: the first time i've ever told that story without sobbing so i've told it
20:29
SPEAKER_00: on my podcast like probably 20 times so
20:35
SPEAKER_00: there's something warm and comforting about the vibe that we've got here
20:38
SPEAKER_00: that uh i allowed i i could have easily done that
20:42
SPEAKER_00: but uh you know this is yeah thanks for allowing me to share
20:45
SPEAKER_01: that yeah yeah no it's it's i think that's what's that's what i love about
20:51
SPEAKER_01: about this show is you know the just the the intimacy that's that's shared you know
20:57
SPEAKER_01: and and you know
21:00
SPEAKER_01: trying my best to you know make it as comfortable as possible
21:03
SPEAKER_01: but it's like i think this work is so important you know in that allowing people
21:08
SPEAKER_01: to see themselves you know in your story and um you know and especially too of
21:15
SPEAKER_01: of yeah the moments that are challenging because it's something we all experience
21:20
SPEAKER_01: so yeah yeah yeah absolutely wow um well let's um let's talk
21:27
SPEAKER_01: about like yeah what life
21:29
SPEAKER_01: you know tell me like all the feelings like like okay so you you decided
21:36
SPEAKER_01: that you were gonna quit like did you was just like done like got rid of it
21:42
SPEAKER_01: and moved from there like how did that look so yeah i think of it in terms of um
21:53
SPEAKER_00: much like i was describing i think of my life in decades i think of my sobriety
21:57
SPEAKER_00: in terms of like years i guess and the first year was really just white knuckling it
22:03
SPEAKER_00: through all the first to prove to myself
22:06
SPEAKER_00: that i could do it my first birthday my first christmas my new year's my first boys
22:11
SPEAKER_00: trip my first concert my wedding or not my wedding my first wedding all
22:16
SPEAKER_00: of these things that have just been
22:18
SPEAKER_00: for my entire adult life centered around drinking
22:23
SPEAKER_00: and just can i even do this so it's kind of white knuckling through it and you get
22:28
SPEAKER_00: through one year like holy shit okay i checked off most of those boxes um and
22:33
SPEAKER_00: then second year was like okay let's do it again and this time let's see
22:38
SPEAKER_00: if we can like can we actually enjoy it is it can it go from white knuckling it
22:44
SPEAKER_00: and proving it proving you can do it to actually enjoying yourself
22:47
SPEAKER_00: and yes holy shit this is actually okay this is okay it's not as much fun
22:52
SPEAKER_00: but it's still pretty good and it seemed like it took me a third time through
22:56
SPEAKER_00: to be like holy shit all of those people that used to tell me
23:01
SPEAKER_00: that they could have fun without drinking and i said you're
23:03
SPEAKER_00: a fucking loser you're just not doing it right like you're not i don't believe you
23:06
SPEAKER_00: no way i'm like holy shit this is actually better but it took me three years um
23:18
SPEAKER_00: and i could be
23:19
SPEAKER_00: i could be all those things that that 17 year old wanted to be funny and charming
23:24
SPEAKER_00: and chatty and now look i still have a hard time staying up past 11 o'clock
23:29
SPEAKER_00: but nothing good happens after 11 o'clock there's no magical great moment
23:33
SPEAKER_00: that you're that you're missing it's somebody you know throwing up or passing out
23:38
SPEAKER_00: or you know it's there's nothing good down hell very rarely so
23:44
SPEAKER_00: but it took me yeah it took me a while and on the
23:48
SPEAKER_00: on the personal and professional side you heard me talk about that
23:52
SPEAKER_00: that cycle i lived when i was drinking between a two or three on a monday morning
23:57
SPEAKER_00: and an eight or nine on friday morning i realized that that eight or nine was really
24:01
SPEAKER_00: a six that i found an extra gear that i never had and here's
24:08
SPEAKER_00: the other thing josh i've realized there might not be a ceiling on
24:11
SPEAKER_00: that you know living in this living in this from a two to a eight
24:18
SPEAKER_00: all the time you never get out of it there's never anything better than an eight
24:27
SPEAKER_00: but i've realized oh that eight was actually a six because i found a 12 and a 13
24:34
SPEAKER_00: and shit i think i found a 15 and a 16 like who's to say there is a limit on this
24:39
SPEAKER_00: which means that that when trapped in that cycle i was you know what i thought was
24:44
SPEAKER_00: an eight was really a three like i had so much more
24:49
SPEAKER_00: to do
24:52
SPEAKER_01: so good um
24:56
SPEAKER_01: so many questions um like so okay so i wanted to touch on
25:01
SPEAKER_01: a little bit like on that first year and so it's like you've you like there's
25:06
SPEAKER_01: so many firsts and you know it's it's like you have a lot of connections and
25:12
SPEAKER_01: the different things that
25:15
SPEAKER_01: events and such like touch on a few of those are like whichever one speaks
25:19
SPEAKER_01: to you like around what changed with your relationships when you decided
25:25
SPEAKER_00: to do this yeah i'm glad you asked about the relationships because i think that was
25:30
SPEAKER_00: the part that scared me most that you know where would my phone stop ringing
25:39
SPEAKER_00: all of these people that you know they had me on speed dial anytime they wanted
25:43
SPEAKER_00: to you know let loose i was bobby good times um and
25:49
SPEAKER_00: so were my friends really just drinking buddies and if we took that out of
25:54
SPEAKER_00: the equation would we have anything to talk about would we do anything would i be
25:59
SPEAKER_00: the one that made everyone feel awkward and i yeah it was awkward i it was awkward
26:07
SPEAKER_00: for them it was awkward for me
26:10
SPEAKER_00: um and i think it was well it's interesting i think it was a lot more awkward
26:16
SPEAKER_00: for me no
26:19
SPEAKER_00: i i think they
26:22
SPEAKER_00: they were nervous everybody was nervous that
26:26
SPEAKER_00: that them drinking around me would be tempting or
26:29
SPEAKER_00: that what wasn't you know they were worried about me
26:32
SPEAKER_00: and i said no i actually i'm totally fine you guys do what you always do i'm
26:37
SPEAKER_00: the only one of my friends that's sober
26:40
SPEAKER_00: all of my friends still drink and but i am convinced that everyone quits
26:45
SPEAKER_00: whether you quit 10 minutes before you take your last breath or
26:49
SPEAKER_00: whether you quit you know 10 years before you die or 20 years
26:52
SPEAKER_00: or 30 years everyone quits and you just decide it everyone's just going to quit
26:56
SPEAKER_00: on their own when it's right for them so i'm just the one that went first but i
27:01
SPEAKER_00: but i was awkward and the truth is my phone did stop ringing i did hear about things
27:07
SPEAKER_00: that were happening that i would have been invited to that i wasn't and i just had
27:12
SPEAKER_00: to learn to be okay with that
27:16
SPEAKER_00: and they weren't excluding me they just they were probably like yeah this is gonna
27:22
SPEAKER_00: be a big one and we don't want bob to feel awkward or tempted
27:27
SPEAKER_00: so we're just not gonna include him in this one
27:31
SPEAKER_00: and now i don't think there's anything that i get excluded from but there's lots
27:35
SPEAKER_00: of things i opt out of not because it's too boozy it's just like yeah i i go to bed
27:40
SPEAKER_00: at nine o'clock like if this party starts at six i'm all there you guys want
27:45
SPEAKER_00: to get together for some party that starts
27:47
SPEAKER_00: at 8 30 like we're still 25 years old no thanks
27:53
SPEAKER_01: so good so good man this has been
27:56
SPEAKER_01: so good um
27:59
SPEAKER_01: okay so what um oh let's talk about creativity i mean you just made
28:04
SPEAKER_00: a song can you tell us yeah yeah oh man i mean this is really fresh right
28:10
SPEAKER_00: because um just a little bit of background i i always told myself i wasn't
28:16
SPEAKER_00: a creative person i don't know where that came from i i've come to realize
28:23
SPEAKER_00: that we are born creative you know you look at kids that are
28:27
SPEAKER_00: that come home from school with a painting and the sky is the sky is purple and
28:33
SPEAKER_00: the sun is blue and the grass is orange and we're told no sweetie the sun is red and
28:39
SPEAKER_00: the grass is green and the ocean is blue right and
28:42
SPEAKER_00: so this creative spark this this childlike curiosity and creativity gets dulled
28:47
SPEAKER_00: over time as we as we just are taught to conform slowly
28:52
SPEAKER_00: and i so i don't know where it happened for me but i just as long
28:56
SPEAKER_00: as i can remember i just never considered myself creative and so in the
29:00
SPEAKER_00: in my work i would always really try to gap try to surround myself with people
29:04
SPEAKER_00: that were great at coming up with ideas and my secret sauce was just to get people
29:09
SPEAKER_00: to work together and bring out the best in people and i'll leave the creativity
29:12
SPEAKER_00: to other people that was just a story that i told myself my whole life um but
29:18
SPEAKER_00: then i started with sobriety i started journaling and writing
29:23
SPEAKER_00: and exploring more creative people on my podcast and trying to break this thing down
29:32
SPEAKER_00: and so i felt like i was
29:35
SPEAKER_00: i was rediscovering the creativity that i lost when i was
29:39
SPEAKER_00: a kid but songwriting still eluded me i would try i would write a couple
29:45
SPEAKER_00: of lines i would look down and be like that's garbage
29:49
SPEAKER_00: and i would give up it's not that i would write a song and then throw it out
29:52
SPEAKER_00: because it sucked i never even got through a first of a verse it just seemed
29:57
SPEAKER_00: to be this block that i couldn't get by so i had this guy named peter katz
30:01
SPEAKER_00: on my podcast he's a singer songwriter from around toronto and
30:05
SPEAKER_00: a speaker amazing guy um and he mentioned this songwriting retreat that he does
30:10
SPEAKER_00: a couple times a year and so i circled it on my calendar and i went
30:16
SPEAKER_00: and friday was writing day
30:19
SPEAKER_00: saturday was recording day sunday was listening day so the first time any
30:23
SPEAKER_00: of us heard the song that we wrote there were four songwriters there
30:27
SPEAKER_00: the first time any of us actually heard it
30:29
SPEAKER_00: and it's fully produced it's fully edited it's you know they've added percussions
30:34
SPEAKER_00: and
30:36
SPEAKER_00: the first time i heard it was on sunday morning and i realized that this story
30:42
SPEAKER_00: that i had been kind of telling myself my whole life about that i couldn't write
30:47
SPEAKER_00: a song
30:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah this retreat was three days but i wrote the song in one day. All i needed
30:53
SPEAKER_00: was just kind of reconnecting to myself.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: I needed a little bit of guidance on...
31:04
SPEAKER_00: I've been listening to music my whole life.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: I know, I'd like to consider myself
31:08
SPEAKER_00: a big fan of music,
31:09
SPEAKER_00: but just somebody
31:10
SPEAKER_00: to kind of break down the process
31:12
SPEAKER_00: and simplify it.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: the interesting thing is that everybody that went all four four of us we were tasked
31:20
SPEAKER_00: before we left with you got to come up
31:22
SPEAKER_00: with some ideas like what are some things you think you might want to write a song
31:25
SPEAKER_00: about and so we all came with a journal with a half a dozen or so ideas and things
31:30
SPEAKER_00: that might someday be a song but we all wrote a song about something else something
31:37
SPEAKER_00: that we were inspired by while we were there and all it took was
31:45
SPEAKER_00: yeah it more than anything it's like turning off the notifications
31:49
SPEAKER_00: on your phone disconnecting put your feet in the grass and try to get out
31:56
SPEAKER_00: of your own head and in a lot of ways just not try so hard just start writing
32:01
SPEAKER_00: and don't stop and see what happens and through that
32:07
SPEAKER_00: and a couple of other just vulnerable honest conversations about the things
32:12
SPEAKER_00: that we were feeling when we were there came ideas for songs that none
32:15
SPEAKER_00: of us ever expected to arrive
32:19
SPEAKER_01: so cool yeah i um i can't wait to put in the
32:24
SPEAKER_01: the show notes do you have a link to it yeah i put it
32:27
SPEAKER_00: on youtube i mean i really wanted to um create a video but then of course i got
32:32
SPEAKER_00: into it i was like oh my god this is way too much work so it's just a picture of me
32:35
SPEAKER_00: with um
32:37
SPEAKER_00: with the song but uh there's also their amazing producer named rob zabo
32:41
SPEAKER_00: who i'm going to have on my podcast coming up i'm so excited about it he's just like
32:44
SPEAKER_00: a award-winning kind of genius and so you're i'll talk about the the uh song in
32:50
SPEAKER_00: a minute but the but the process of it you know i i play guitar
32:56
SPEAKER_00: so peter and i are playing it on guitar a little bit but he plays on
32:59
SPEAKER_00: the recorded version and then we do the vocals it's not complicated do
33:03
SPEAKER_00: that i think we did the guitar first and the vocals and they added some other things
33:06
SPEAKER_00: but you're watching people it was amazing to be in the presence of people
33:13
SPEAKER_00: that clearly have found what they were put on this earth to do hmm
33:20
SPEAKER_00: you're watching these guys like they see music they see colors they see shapes like
33:26
SPEAKER_00: they it's a different language and so rob is sitting there on this big monitor
33:31
SPEAKER_00: and you see the tracks and the vocals right and the guitar and the percussion
33:34
SPEAKER_00: and he's just like moving shit around it's like absolute magic to turn this thing
33:41
SPEAKER_00: that didn't exist that was buried maybe somewhere
33:46
SPEAKER_00: in my subconscious that just needed a little bit of freedom and permission
33:51
SPEAKER_00: to be teased out to see that happen in a day to turn that into words on a page
33:56
SPEAKER_00: to turn that into sounds coming out of a guitar out of my voice to see that go
34:00
SPEAKER_00: through the production and come out two days later is something that i can share
34:04
SPEAKER_00: with other people man i was just like i i mean if i have a regret it's
34:10
SPEAKER_00: that i didn't do this 20 years ago like
34:13
SPEAKER_00: you know you gotta trust the timing of your life these things happen
34:16
SPEAKER_00: when they're meant to happen and uh now i just have to do it again
34:19
SPEAKER_00: because i realized man it's just that creativity is inside all
34:26
SPEAKER_00: of us it's just we it's just it's just buried under self-doubt and imposter syndrome
34:33
SPEAKER_00: and fear of judgment and and it's there
34:38
SPEAKER_00: and i never would have found it without sobriety i never would have found it
34:41
SPEAKER_00: without all the things that that had to happen to lead up to me saying yes to
34:48
SPEAKER_00: that songwriting retreat
34:53
SPEAKER_01: i want to keep going but i thought that was just like
34:56
SPEAKER_01: a banging ending so it's been really good really good thank you thank you
35:02
SPEAKER_01: so much yeah um
35:05
SPEAKER_01: yeah if anyone has any questions in the chat please please please feel free to um
35:11
SPEAKER_01: to share and i can't wait to put put that song
35:15
SPEAKER_01: in i almost wish it could like play live now is like we had the credits roll and
35:21
SPEAKER_01: and such so yeah you know what i got my guitar right
35:25
SPEAKER_00: behind me i'm like shit maybe i'll put my guitar down
35:27
SPEAKER_00: and start playing i was like no i actually haven't practiced it much
35:30
SPEAKER_00: since i played it
35:31
SPEAKER_00: that could turn this amazing beautiful vulnerable honest conversation
35:35
SPEAKER_00: to something quite disastrous me fumbling through a song that i haven't played for
35:39
SPEAKER_00: a month but uh yeah i mean hey if people want
35:42
SPEAKER_00: to check it out it's uh i played it it's about my mom and the experience
35:47
SPEAKER_00: of moving her into a retirement home which happened just a week before i went
35:50
SPEAKER_00: on this songwriting retreat and uh yeah i played it for my family and we were crying
35:55
SPEAKER_00: and it was just yeah just i don't know it's just been a gift that i
36:00
SPEAKER_00: i didn't know i needed so yeah people want to check it out it's awesome the story
36:04
SPEAKER_00: about the song is in the notes of the youtube and i do want to get it on spotify
36:08
SPEAKER_00: but just as an easier way to distribute it but i just haven't gotten
36:14
SPEAKER_01: that far yeah well it's it's you've shared so much
36:19
SPEAKER_01: and yeah i mean i you've you've sold sobriety letting go alcohol quite well
36:27
SPEAKER_01: so yeah yeah so thank you thank you so much um yeah if um yeah given that you kind
36:35
SPEAKER_01: of mentioned at the beginning but if you want
36:37
SPEAKER_01: to let people know like what you're working on and where
36:40
SPEAKER_00: to find you um that'd be awesome yeah yeah people want to uh learn more and find me
36:46
SPEAKER_00: of course uh Substack the restless leader bob mathers of course you can find me
36:52
SPEAKER_00: on linkedin
36:54
SPEAKER_00: and check out the growth mixtape podcast anywhere you listen to your podcast i just
36:58
SPEAKER_00: a new episode just dropped um today so i released some kind of every other thursday
37:03
SPEAKER_00: and i think josh it would be amazing to have you come on the show because this is
37:10
SPEAKER_00: as much as i've enjoyed every second of this i have so many questions
37:14
SPEAKER_00: for you you know when you turn the microphone around you turn
37:16
SPEAKER_00: the table around whatever the analogy is i have so many questions for you but i'm
37:22
SPEAKER_00: it's it feels a little unnatural for me to do all the talking
37:24
SPEAKER_00: so we're gonna we're gonna flip it around and have you tell more
37:28
SPEAKER_01: of your story next time yeah love to man well we'll definitely schedule that
37:32
SPEAKER_01: and let everybody know and that'll happen too so yeah well hey i wish you
37:37
SPEAKER_01: a beautiful rest of your week weekend thank you so much for this so so good
37:43
SPEAKER_01: and um thank you everyone for spending time with us and yeah take care we'll see you
37:49
SPEAKER_01: on the next one
37:50
SPEAKER_01: right on thanks everyone thanks josh