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“Joe, put your records on.” (Debate recap special!) · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I'm Tommy Vitor. All right, guys, we had.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Another big debate last night. Last night in Houston, the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: 10 highest polling Democratic candidates appeared on the same stage
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: at the same time in a debate that included Joe Biden,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, Andrew Yang,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Cory Booker, Beto O'Rourke, Amy Klobuchar, and Julian Castro. It
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: was the first time that Biden and Warren were on
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: stage together, which some people thought was going to lead
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: to fireworks. But with a few exceptions that we're going
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to talk about, I would argue that it's probably the
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: least combative debate so far. What do you guys think?
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think there's a reason for that. Two
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: reasons for it. The first is, I think everyone felt
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: terrible after the last debate when everyone fought each other.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: And the hangover just lasted a couple months.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so everyone fought each other and Barack Obama, which
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: seemed like a bad idea. But also, everyone on stage
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: last night has already qualified for the next debate, so
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: there is no need for... to light yourself on fire
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: to get from 1% to 2% or get another 30,000
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: online donors. So they could play it a little safer.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Despite there not being a need to do so, some
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: candidates may have.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: There was some fire. I mean, right.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: It was surprising to me in the earlier debates how
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: nasty it got this early because generally you kind of
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: want to be seen as nice through the Iowa caucuses
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: because of the way the political process works there. And it's,
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: I think, notable that one of the big moments everyone's
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: talking about this morning is Julian Castro's exchange with Joe
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Biden because it was seen as particularly negative.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it will. And we'll talk about that in a bit.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: But it stood out because I do think you could
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: count the number of times in the opening statements and
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: then throughout the debate that candidates said, look, there's so
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: much more that unites us than divides us. And how
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: many times they all praised Barack Obama. It was almost crazy.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: A bit of an overcorrection, if we're really being honest.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: It was very obvious what they were doing, but I
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: was happy about it. I was happy about it. So
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: it did start with a 30-minute mini-debate on health care, again,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: where Biden criticized Warren and Sanders for the cost of
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Medicare for all and was joined this time by Amy
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg. Let's hear a clip.
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: I think we should have a debate on health care.
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: I think I know that the senator says she's for Bernie, well,
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: I'm for Barack. I think the Obamacare worked. I think
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: the way we add to it, replace everything that's been cut,
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: add a public option, guarantee that everyone will be able
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: to have affordable insurance, number one. Number two, I think
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: we should be in a position of taking a look
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: at what costs are. My plan for health care costs
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: a lot of money. It costs $ 740 billion. It doesn't
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: cost $ 30 trillion.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: So did this health care discussion... break any new ground?
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Did it move the ball forward? Does it seem to
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: you guys like we're going in a cul-de-sac every time
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: we get into this discussion of Medicare for All?
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: It was a little different this time because it became
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: a conversation between Biden, Bernie, and Elizabeth Warren. And in
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: previous debates, there has been some moderate off in the
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: wings who has led this debate, whether it was John
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Delaney or Michael Bennett or someone else. And so at
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: least this was a conversation between Biden, Warren and Bernie Sanders.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: And Biden was leading the charge for his plan and
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: being the one delivering the criticism of Medicare for all,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: as opposed to what's happened in the past, which is
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: sort of this less relevant figure sort of getting their
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: ass kicked by Warren or Bernie.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: What did you think, Tommy?
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, look, as a non-healthcare wonk at this table, it
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: did feel a little redundant to me and sometimes hard
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: to follow. And I do wonder how much people at
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: home are able to follow it. It was interesting to
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: hear one of the lead candidates, top candidates, make the
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: case against Medicare for All for the first time. I
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: think maybe some points were scored. Bernie also made an
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: important point I thought about healthcare coverage generally, which is
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: this idea that under some of the other plans that
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: are Medicare for All that you can actually keep your
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: private insurance if you like it. That's not really true
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: because employers have the chance to change your insurance at
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: any time, right? So it's a broader critique of the
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: private healthcare system that is interesting. I saw and heard
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: some Bernie folks express frustration that Elizabeth Warren didn't more
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: forcefully stand up for Medicare for all writ large. I
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: don't know if that's a small anecdote or the beginning
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: of a schism, but it was notable to me.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't notice that. I thought she was pretty aggressive
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: in her defense of Medicare for all. I think her
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: and Bernie both made good points, like you said, Bernie,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: about how you could lose your doctor under some of
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: these other plans. And Warren talking about how no one
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: really loves their insurance company, which is different than saying
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: no one loves their plan.
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Right. She very pointedly did not say that because polling
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: shows that some people do like their plan. But I
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: think it is pretty safe to say that no one
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: loves their insurance company.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: And she said, you know, what they love is you
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: love your doctor, you love your physical therapist, you love
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: your nurse, the hospital you go to. And under Medicare
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: for all, you would be able to keep all of
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: that and choose all of that, which is very true.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: I think where Biden sort of opened up some questions
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: is around the issue of cost, which we have. We've
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: been so stuck on this. Get rid of private insurance,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: eliminate it, kick people off, whatever, whatever that means. but
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: the cost we haven't really talked about a lot. And
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, Biden tried to point out at least,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: you know, Bernie's been honest about raising taxes on the
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: middle class to fund his plan. Elizabeth Warren has not
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: been willing to say that. And then she talked once
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: again about, and she, she is unwilling to talk about that.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: But she, what she says is overall costs for families
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: will go down, which is true, which is true, but
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: that's still, people are going to get most families and
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: people are going to get a higher tax bill. And again,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: if your employer pays a lot of your premiums and
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: then they stop doing that because there's a government-run plan,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: do you notice that savings?
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: It's an open question.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Warren has made it a big part of her strategy
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: to reject the premise of questions asked from a Republican
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: or conservative point of view and sort of call that out.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: And I think 95% of the time, that is an
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: incredibly effective strategy. More Democrats need to do that. And
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: most of these questions are coming from a conservative point
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: of view. They are written in prospective Republican talking points
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: in a general election. But I think on this issue,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: this is going to be asked in every debate going forward.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: And if she is the nominee, it's going to be
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: the question. And it is hard for her, especially since
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: her brand has become very authentic, honest policy walk, to
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: look like she is not answering this question over time.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Because as you point out, taxes will go up. And
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: most people, and she is right about the right way
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: to frame the question.
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: But this is how the question is being asked. And eventually,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I think it's going to get challenging because there are
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: going to be some people, as there are in every policy,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: there are winners and losers. Medicare for All has way
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: more winners and losers, but there are going to be
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: some people whose taxes go up more than they will
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: save in health care costs because they are not sick
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: or they don't go to the doctor very often or
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: they're not interacting with the health care system at such
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: a rate. And that is a fact. And if Elizabeth
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Warren is president or Bernie Sanders is president or anyone
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: who's going to push for Medicare for All is president,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: getting there without having an honest discussion about the loser's
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: and what a small percentage of people they are, it
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: makes putting that law into place much harder.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we learned that the hard way.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The only other thing I'd say on this is
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know that the Medicare for All candidates have
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: yet made an argument as to why a plan like
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: a Medicare for America plan, like Beto O'Rourke's, a Kamala
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Harris's plan, where you still have a choice of private
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: insurance at the end if you want it, are bad.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: You know, they've made a pretty good case of why
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: doing nothing is bad, but, you know, leaving the ACAs,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: it is as bad. But I don't know if I've,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: you know, I think they've said, well, you don't get
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: as much efficiency out of the system. It's more costly
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: overall if we still have insurance companies in the mix.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: And that is true. But I don't know if efficiency
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: is the best argument to people who may still want
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: that choice. And I think they probably next time around
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: have to do a better job saying, no, no, no,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Kamala's plan or Beto's plan or some of these plans
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: that get close to Medicare for all but don't quite
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: get there. are risky and bad.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really an argument against the concept of private
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: insurance and a system where money can be pulled out
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: of the healthcare system in the form of profits by corporations.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: That's a really fundamental critique that I think requires people
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: to step back and think bigger about the healthcare system
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: writ large and not necessarily about their lives, their premiums,
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: for it to really seem meaningful.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Can we make one more point on Medicare for All?
• 9:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Is a point John, you have made privately, not publicly, but.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: It's the, and we're.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: About to find out how closely people listen to this podcast,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: but is Biden's argument that Elizabeth Warren is with Bernie
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: and he is with Barack is fundamentally flawed.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you. I would like you to say why.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I did make this argument publicly. I said this to Ryan,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: who asked about this last night for his piece. Um, so, um, Yeah.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: When he said, I'm with Barack and Elizabeth Warren's with Bernie,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I was waiting for Elizabeth Warren to respond. Actually, there
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: is one person last year who said that Medicare for
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: all is a good idea. That person is Barack Obama.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: So the idea that by saying that you want to
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: add to the Affordable Care Act by going all the
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: way to Medicare for all is somehow scrapping the Affordable
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Care Act and like tarnishing Barack Obama's legacy is something
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: that Barack Obama himself does not believe.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's said as much for many, many years.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: And it's said as much, well in 2018 was the
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: first time he came out for Medicare for All.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: Way before that he said, if I could start from
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: scratch I would have gone for the single payer system
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: but we didn't start from scratch, we started with the
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: the pre-ACA system, so he built on it.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he went out further than he ever has
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: in the midterm campaigns and said Medicare for All is
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: a good idea.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: It makes me very uncomfortable that whether you were for
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Medicare for All, Medicare for America, or the ACA with
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: a public option is somehow a test of your support
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: for Obama's legacy. And I think that is a... It
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: cheapens the conversation, and I think it's frankly unfair to
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Barack Obama because.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: We should not use a false or incorrect presumption of
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: his position to divide the party.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Plenty of actual policy differences between those plans to argue over. Plenty.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: So the most contentious moment of the night, Tommy, as
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, came when Julian Castro criticized Joe Biden's
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: health care plan for not automatically enrolling everyone who's uninsured
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: in a Medicare-like program. Let's take a listen.
• 11:15
  Speaker 7: Barack Obama's vision was not to leave 10 million people uncovered.
• 11:18
  Speaker 7: He wanted every single person in this country covered.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: My plan would do that. Your plan would not.
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: They do not have to buy in. They do not
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: have to buy in.
• 11:26
  Speaker 7: You just said that. You just said that two minutes ago.
• 11:29
  Speaker 7: You just said two minutes ago that they would have
• 11:31
  Speaker 7: to buy in.
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: You said they would have to buy in.
• 11:35
  Speaker 7: Are you forgetting what you said two minutes ago? Are
• 11:37
  Speaker 7: you forgetting already what you said just two minutes ago?
• 11:43
  Speaker 7: I mean, I can't believe that you said two minutes
• 11:45
  Speaker 7: ago that they had to buy in.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: And now you're saying they don't have to buy. You're
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: forgetting that.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, that was fun.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: So the clip started with Castro. But I just we
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: should just put out there what Biden said before that
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: clip started. Early on, as he's describing his plan, he said, quote,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: anyone who can't afford it gets automatically enrolled in the
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Medicare type option we have. That is true. That is
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: about his plan. His plan basically says, if you qualify
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: for Medicaid, but you don't get Medicaid because you're in
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: one of the states that didn't expand, you will automatically
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: be enrolled in a premium free Medicare program, free. And
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: then by later set, if you lose your job, you
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: can automatically buy into this plan, right? So if you
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: are a higher income, but you lose your job, you
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: can then buy into his public option. It is not
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: automatic enrollment and it is not necessarily free. For some
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: people who lose their jobs, it may be free if
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: you qualify under a certain income level. So that's what
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: was said. So on one hand, you can understand that
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Castro heard him say the word buy. But what I
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: think was sort of, I guess, unfair about this is
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Biden goes back and is clearly saying, no, no, no,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: I was talking about people who qualify for Medicaid and
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: they get automatically enrolled. You were talking about your poor grandmother,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: and I was saying she would be automatically enrolled. And
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: as Biden's saying that, Castro just keeps yelling over him
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: and saying, you forgot, you forgot, you forgot. So, you know,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's as big of a deal on
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: either side, as everyone said, but it's still, it struck
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: me as a bit unfair.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Candidates go into debates with a couple of moments or
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: zingers or whatever that they want to land.
• 13:32
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: And it seems... and I'd like to see a report
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: on this, but it seemed from watching this that Castro
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: went in this debate looking for an opportunity to question
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Biden's capacity, to sort of push on the open door
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: of the conversation about Biden's age and his gaffes that
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: has been happening on Twitter, in the media, in the
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: early states. And he went and did that. I think
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: this was an unfair... We can have a conversation about
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: whether that conversation is in bounds in a Democratic primary,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: non-Democratic debate stage. This was a poor place to land in.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: I don't think it worked for Castro. in the context
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: of this debate and may hurt him in the long run.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Tommy, what did you think? Yeah.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: So, you know, Mayor Pete sort of sweeps in later
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: in this conversation. It's like, this is why everyone hates
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: watching these debates and everyone hates politics. And Castro responded,
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: this is what debates are for. And he's right. Debates
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: are for figuring out the nuances of policy, holding people
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: accountable for past statements and arguing. But if you come
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: off like you are being condescending to a man who
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: was the vice president of the United States for eight years,
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: I think it's not going to read well to people.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: And I think that's the reaction you're seeing. You know,
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: he kind of like had like a, hey, Wolfer Brindley,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: you forget your meds kind of vibe. And that's, I
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: think it's human nature to see someone do that and
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: to think, hey, you're kind of being a jerk. Now,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: that said, long term, what Castro's comment did, and Cory
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: Booker addressed this on CNN later and made sort of
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: a similar comment, comment about Biden's mental acuity. This could
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: give reporters a news hook to cover this discussion more
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: and to talk about Biden's age more. And ultimately, it
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: could hurt Biden. Now, I think a discussion about age
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: is perfectly legitimate. I do think we should talk about
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: people's fitness for the job. If you're too old for it,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: if you're too young for it, it's relevant.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I saw a bunch of people on Twitter this morning
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: saying like, oh, what is this about being mean to
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: poor Joe Biden and he's going to have to take
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: this in the general election if he's running against Trump
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: and Trump's going to be mean to him and people
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: should be able to question the frontrunner. Yes, of course.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Of course all of that is true. No one thinks
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: that Donald Trump is going to run some kind of
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: a nice, honest campaign against Joe Biden.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: You're so cynical.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Who thinks that, right? And of course people should be
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: able to criticize Joe Biden. Kamala Harris in the first
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: debate went pretty hard at Joe Biden and was almost
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: universally praised for it and went up in the polls afterwards.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: And I think it was a completely inbounds critique of
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden. I think in the second debate, Cory Booker,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of people, including us, said he had the
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: best debate. And he went after Biden, I think, in
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: a very fair way.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, Bernie went after Biden in several debates on
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: his vote for the Iraq war. And it's a perfectly
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: legitimate policy conversation that should be raised and should be discussed,
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: especially when Biden is presenting himself as a person with
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: the best experience and judgment on foreign policy. But there's
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: also the, you know, style points aspect of politics. And
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: if you kind of seem like a jerk, people are
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: going to think you're a jerk.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: And I think to that end, in the first debate,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: I think it was the first debate, when Eric Swalwell
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: started like yelling about passing the torch, he got roundly
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: criticized for that. And people said it was going too far.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: And I think they were right there too. It did
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: seem pretty silly. It's not about like the legitimacy of,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: should you attack the front runner? How dare you attack
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden? He's a vice president, blah, blah, blah. It's
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: not about that. It's like, does your critique of the
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: other candidate, A, ring true, and B, seem like it's
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: coming from a fair place? Or does it seem like
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: it was choreographed, scripted, calculated? And look, what we know
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: is Castro's people told reporters ahead of the debate, uh,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: our candidate is going to go after someone at this debate,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: but we're not going to tell you who.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: Why don't we do like a Clue-style murder mystery?
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: We criticized Biden's campaign for this, too, because they said, oh,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: we're going to go after, and they didn't do it,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: we're going to go after Elizabeth Warren's record on businesses
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: that she worked with or something like that, and they
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: telegraphed that attack. Again, whether it's Biden doing it, Casper
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: doing it, or anyone doing it, telegraphing who you're going
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: to attack before the debate leaves you open to be
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: criticized for that attack seeming phony. Just the way it is. Okay,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: so the next big moment in the debate came in
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: response to a question on gun safety. Let's listen to
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: the answer given by Beto O'Rourke.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: You know the critics call this confiscation.
• 17:57
  Speaker 8: Are you proposing taking away their guns and how would
• 17:59
  Speaker 8: this work?
• 18:01
  Speaker 6: I am.
• 18:01
  Speaker 9: If it's a weapon that was designed to kill people
• 18:04
  Speaker 9: on a battlefield.
• 18:09
  Speaker 6: If.
• 18:10
  Speaker 9: The high-impact, high-velocity round when it hits your body shreds
• 18:14
  Speaker 9: everything inside of your body because it was designed to do.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: That so that you would bleed to.
• 18:18
  Speaker 9: Death on a battlefield and not be able to get
• 18:20
  Speaker 9: up and kill one of our soldiers. When we see
• 18:23
  Speaker 9: that being used against children, And in Odessa, I met
• 18:27
  Speaker 9: the mother of a 15-year-old girl who was shot by
• 18:30
  Speaker 9: an AR-15. And that mother watched her bleed to death
• 18:33
  Speaker 9: over the course of an hour because so many other
• 18:36
  Speaker 9: people were shot by that AR-15 in Odessa and Midland.
• 18:39
  Speaker 9: There weren't enough ambulances to get to them in time.
• 18:42
  Speaker 9: Hell yes, we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47.
• 18:44
  Speaker 9: We're not going to allow it to be used against
• 18:45
  Speaker 9: our fellow.
• 18:47
  Speaker 7: Americans anymore.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: It seemed to me like that might have been the
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: best moment of the debate last night. I don't know
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: what you guys thought.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I thought so. I mean, it was passionate. It was powerful.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: It came from a place of real emotion. And the
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: audience was responding because it was bold. And they were
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: responding to too much Democratic caution on guns. Now, the
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: people on that stage, many of them, have been more
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: aggressive and more progressive on dealing with guns than most
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: people in the Democratic Party. But it was just a
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: few days ago that the Democrats in the House decided
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: they were not going to vote on an assault weapons
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: ban because they thought it was bad politics and it
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: couldn't pass. And here's the thing that is, I think,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: so important about what Beto said. And I think Julian
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Castro and Cory Booker and others who have gone further
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: on things like guns, gun licensing, registration also deserve credit for.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: But is it doesn't matter what your fucking position is.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: The NRA is going to say you're coming for their guns.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: They said it about Barack Obama twice. We didn't take guns, right?
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: They said it about Hillary Clinton. They said about every
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Democrat who's ever fucking run. And there is, we've been
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: arguing this for a very long time, picking a position
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: of caution to try to appease the NRA or the
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: pro-gun crowd is a certain loser, because they will assign
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: a position to you that is not yours. So pick
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: the boldest position. They can get the response from the
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: people in that audience last night. Inspire people, right? Don't
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: do this out of boldness, not out of fear.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, campaigning should change you as a
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: person and as a candidate, right? And clearly what happened
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: in El Paso struck Beto's community and himself and his
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: family deeply, and it's incredibly personal. And the thing that
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: made that answer really powerful was the way it built.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: And you could tell he was getting actually emotional thinking
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: about the mother of this young kid who bled out
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: because she was shot by an AR-15. And so, yeah,
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: I think all of us, like me included, are sick
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: of politicians who sound afraid of the NRA. I appreciate
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: it as moral clarity. It was also interesting that Beto
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: got a bunch of praise from rivals on that stage
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: for his handling of what happened in El Paso and
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: the way he was there for the community. So you
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: can probably interpret that as them thinking he's no longer
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: a threat and trying to be Nice to him, but
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: I think it probably read to people watching at home
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: as a credit to his leadership. So it was a
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: very good moment for Beto O'Rourke. I think it reminded
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: people why they liked him in the Senate campaign.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I also think that sometimes when you take a pretty bold,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: aggressive position, not always, but sometimes, it turns out that
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: most people agree with you. So it wasn't just the
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: people who clapped in that audience last night or activists
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: or people on Twitter, but the Washington Post last week
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: polled a mandatory... buyback of assault weapons, and it polled
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: at 52% support in the broader public. And I think, look,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: we found similar results in our Wisconsin poll, even with
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: gun licensing, which Cory Booker has been out front on,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: is also popular. You find out all these things are
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: more popular than we've been led to believe by pundits
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: and more cautious Democrats when you actually poll them. It's
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: not true for all issues, but it happens.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: To be true for this one. We saw this in
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: a way, but the whole dumb fight about whether we
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: should talk to uh dictators without precondition like that was
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: something obama said the entire establishment told him he was
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: a naive idiot then the entire country said actually we're
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: with that.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Guy yeah and i one last thing about what beto
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: did which i think is interesting is it's one of
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: and there were a few other times but it's one
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: of the rare moments in these debates where a moment
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: outlasts the debate that's not about conflict with another candidate
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: like i think beto showed last night that you could
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: have a really memorable moment by expressing anger on behalf
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: of people and not just anger at another candidate. And look,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: I think we're going to talk about this, but I
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: think Kamala did that a few times last night too,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: by focusing on Trump a lot and speaking directly to
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Trump in her opening statement and showed that, okay, we
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: can not fight our other candidates on stage, but still
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: seem really powerful, emotional, effective by sort of talking about
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: what unites Democrats and going after Donald Trump. So I
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: thought that was good.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Well, that's been one of the the bad lessons learned
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: from the first debate was Kamala Harris's attack on Biden,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: which I thought was very fair.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and effective.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: And incredibly well executed and effective. But it led to
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: a temporary surge in her poll numbers. And the lesson
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: then was the best way to get into the top tier,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: because it appeared that she moved into that top tier,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: was to take a shot at someone else.
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: And then that second debate, everyone tried to do what
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Kamala Harris did. And sort of the lesson from that
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: debate was that's not the right strategy. Julian Castro, who
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: actually made this debate stage by going after Beto O'Rourke
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: in the first debate, now believes that that is his
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: path to getting higher than 2% in the polls, because
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: he was the 10th qualifier on that. He was the
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: last one on the stage.
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: And I'll say, too, the other person, the other candidate
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: who really gets this, even though he's gone after Biden
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: in the past as well, is Cory Booker, who might
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: be one of the most consistent candidates good debaters of
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: all the candidates. But all the times that people have
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: said that Cory Booker's had a good performance, it's been
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: because he's spoken positively. And it's not because he just
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: goes after other people. He makes a pretty positive case.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: He's able to be a happy warrior at all times
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: and tell stories about real people in this community and
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: do it with a smile. And I think it comes
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: off really well.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Can I challenge the idea that Booker is good at debates? Okay, yeah.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I think right now, Booker is basically playing the role
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: that Biden did in 2008. So if you guys remember
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: those debates... Not really. There were 37 of them, and
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: we hated all of them.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: If you ask me who was on stage with Barack
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Obama and Hillary Clinton, I'll tell you, like, Joe Biden,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Chris Dodd, and I can't remember who else.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Mike Revell. But so it was, like, in those debates,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: it was a little bit like last night in that
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: there were these... There was Obama, Clinton... Edwards were the
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: three by far leaders in the race and they were
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: always fighting each other. And mostly Obama, Hillary and Edwards
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: was sort of coming in against both of them. But
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Biden was always the happy warrior and he always had
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: good lines and he attacked Bush and he would attack
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: the Republicans. It's where he said Rudy Giuliani was a noun,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: a verb in 9-11.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: And people always left that debate loving Joe Biden. But
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: they didn't leave that debate thinking Joe Biden should be
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: their choice for president.
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: And I think the challenge for Booker right now is.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: Got that VP, though.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: He did get that VP, so maybe that's what he's
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: going for. But is... I think Booker is smart. He
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: is passionate. He is very good on stage. He is
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: a happy warrior. But it is not clear to me
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: what strategic objective to advance his candidacy he is accomplishing
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: as he does that.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I think we can make the same argument about... I
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: think there's four people in this category to me. Booker, Beto... Klobuchar,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: and Buttigieg, who I think of all, and I think
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: it's all four of them last night turned in very
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: good debate performances. And afterwards I was wondering, okay, but
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: what is it that's going to help you break into
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: that top tier? Because I also think you can argue,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: we can talk about this later or now, that the
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: sort of understudy crowd may have overperformed the top three
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: frontrunners last night, just in last night's debate. Those four
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: candidates I mentioned. And I think Kamala Harris turned in
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: a pretty solid debate as well.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: It's kind of hard to figure out where to put her. Yeah, right.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: She's sort of between those two tiers.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: But like by two points.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah. But so I think you can make a
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: case that all of them had a pretty good debate.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: But I wonder sort of where that leaves them and
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: how they actually break in. Yeah, it's a good point.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, look, Booker didn't speak for the first 40 minutes.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: So it's hard to say, oh, he had a great debate.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: But then at the end, he got this goofy question
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: about the Amazon and veganism.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: And he didn't take the bait on it. And then
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: actually became the only candidate on stage to talk about
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Afghanistan and how we need to take care of veterans
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: when they come back. So I was like, oh, that
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: was smart and it was thoughtful and it was noticed
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: in the veterans community. Now, to your point, Dan, will
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: this help him become the nominee? I have no idea.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: There's no indication that it has to date. I think
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: if Adisu was on with us right now as campaign manager,
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: he would say their plan is to organize, organize and
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: get hot later. And they're just kind of laying that groundwork. But,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: you know, we'll see.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Like, I can look at that field. I can say
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: I know exactly what Amy Klobuchar was trying to do.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: And she was like, we can have a conversation about
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: how effective she wasn't doing it, but she was making
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: a moderate electability case. She was picking a lane and
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: she was running in it. I think I know what
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Pete wanted to do. Not sure it was accomplished, but
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: he wanted to continue. He wanted to be the young,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: moderate alternative to the three people at the top of
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: the stage. If you think Warren and Bernie are too
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: far left to win and you think Biden is too
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: old or damaged to win, Pete is your guy.
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Beto was very specifically trying to recapture the magic of
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: his Senate race, which is about being an inspirational movement
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: candidate that can get people fired up and is willing
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: to say things that other politicians won't.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And sort of call out the bullshit of politics.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: What drove him, made him an actual celebrity, was that
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: answer on Colin Kaepernick in the Senate race. This was
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: a similar thing. The Booker one is a mystery to me.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fair.
• 28:08
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I almost think he's trying to be like the... Like
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: an electable progressive alternative to the top three a little bit?
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: I think that they.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: He's got his message.
• 28:20
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: I think that they think that a long-term, hopeful, optimistic
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: message will break through and be what people want in
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: the face of the Trump horribleness. Maybe that's right. Maybe
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: it's wrong.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: And their argument is that Booker has been delivering that
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: message for his whole life and not just part of
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: this campaign. So he's got sort of a long record attached.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: I think that's what they're going for.
• 28:37
  Speaker 7: Hey, Dan.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Breaking news. Sean Livingston's retiring.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: I know I saw that. That's like a great opportunity
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: for the Crooked Media version of 30 for 30 sports
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: documentary podcast. I think you guys should really take up.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Dan, you live in San Francisco. Walk down the hall,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: talk to Sarah Geisman. Let's talk about my other personal
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: favorite answer of the night, which also came during the
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: gun safety section from Elizabeth Warren.
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: We have a Congress that is beholden to the gun industry.
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: And unless we're willing to address that head-on and roll
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: back the filibuster, we're not going to get anything done
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: on guns. I was in the United States Senate when
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: 54 senators said, let's do background checks, let's get rid
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: of assault weapons. And with 54 senators, it failed because
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: of the filibuster. Until we attack the system, problems, we
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: can't get gun reform in this country. We've got to
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: go straight against the industry and we've got to change
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: Congress so it doesn't just work for the wealthy and well-connected,
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: so it works for the people.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Now, Bernie was also asked about the filibuster as a
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: follow-up and had a different response.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: Would you support ending the filibuster?
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: No, but what I would support absolutely is passing major legislation.
• 30:07
  Speaker 6: The gun legislation that people here are talking about. Medicare
• 30:10
  Speaker 6: for all. Climate change legislation that saves the planet. I
• 30:15
  Speaker 6: will not wait for 60 votes to make that happen.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: What's going on with Bernie here and the filibuster? Can
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: anyone figure this out? You pressed him on it for
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: like 10 minutes. I pressed him on it when he
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: was here. He gave me the same answer about... budget reconciliation,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, and having his vice
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: president basically just overrule the parliamentarian in the Senate to
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: get whatever you want passed, it pretty much seems like
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: an elimination of the filibuster in everything but name.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: It's so confusing for a guy who hates the system
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: and wants to tear it down and, you know, like.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Shows the power of being in the Senate.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: Why wouldn't you just be in favor of getting rid of...
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: I just don't get it.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Also, poor Bernie.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: He sounded so sick. It would suck so badly to
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: go into a three hour debate with barely having your voice.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: He didn't have his voice, but he had energy. Like
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: he didn't, you know, it was just hard to listen to.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Bernie's answer is nonsensical. Like, like let's, let's try to,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: if you try to separate the substance from what he
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: said on stage, most of Medicare for all can be
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: passed using budget reconciliation, which is a 50 vote measure
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: that allows you to only requires 50 votes. It is
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: very limited in what can be included in a budget
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: reconciliation measure.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Things that have to do with the budget, basically. And
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: it gets very arcane.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: And that is how we pass the Affordable Care Act.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: There are parts of the law that we wish we
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: could have done that we couldn't do because of budget
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: reconciliation rules. So I don't know specifically what falls in
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: and what falls out of Bernie's plan via budget reconciliation,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: but you could go down that path. The Green New
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Deal is a very different deal.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: So what Bernie's arguing is that when we were trying
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: to pass the ACA and couldn't pass some elements through
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: budget reconciliation, is that we should have had Vice President
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Biden at the time just overrule, because he's the president
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: of the Senate, the vice president's president of the Senate
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: when your party's in control, that he should have just
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: gone to the Senate. And when the parliamentarian said, no,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: you can't pass that through reconciliation, Biden could have just
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: said overruled by the Senate president, and then it just
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: would have moved forward, which we can test that out
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: if you can do that. But To me, the only
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: difference between that and completely eliminating the filibuster is Bernie's
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: basically trying to say, when a Democrat has the presidency
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: and the Senate, they should be able to pass whatever
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: they want with 51 votes. But if a Democrat's president
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: and the Republicans control the Senate or there's a Republican president,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: then we keep the filibuster because then maybe they won't
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: do the same thing.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: It's got a bit of a Banana Republic vibe.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: A bit.
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: A bit.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Very important argument that can be made in support of
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: abolishing the filibuster. We are a democracy. The majority should
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: get to pick our policies. And having a policy that likes,
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: let's say, not just a minority of senators, but a
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: tiny majority of the American people, because the geographic distribution
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: in the Senate where Wyoming has as much power as California,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: that that Fund is a measure that undermines American democracy.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: And you can make an argument against that. It's an
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: argument that I think will sell with the American people.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: The Democrats who push for abolishing the filibuster can and
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: should brand themselves as the people who push for democracy.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: We want to make our democracy where everyone's voice counts.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: And Republicans are against that. When you get into a
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: vice president overruling a parliamentarian, I don't understand how you
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: explain that to people. But there's another point, which is
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: some of the arguments when people yell at us for
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: talking about the filibuster is it's not up to the president.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: It's up to the Senate.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Which is true.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Very true. Now, it's not going to happen if the
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: president's not for it, because the president's going to have
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: to lobby a lot of senators who are very skeptical
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: about this. Many of them were on stage last night.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: But if you think senators are skeptical about the idea
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: of getting rid of the filibuster, which would be a
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: change in Senate rules, but an above-board one, how do
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: you think they're going to feel about just completely perverting
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: the budget reconciliation process by fiat from the vice president's office. Like,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like that's going to sell with Joe
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Manchin and Chris Coons.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Look, last thing I'll say is, you know, a bunch
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: of people, when I was excited about it last night,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: tweeting at me as they usually do, like, what happens
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: when Mitch McConnell and a Republican president get rid of
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the filibuster? Yeah, I understand the risks. There are absolutely
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: risks to eliminating the filibuster. But I will tell you
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: with near 100% certainty that there is no time in
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: the next 10 years where Democrats will have 60 votes
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: in the Senate. Look at the states. Look at the map.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Look at who's up. It will not happen. You can
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: get to 52, 53, 54, 55 in the best case scenarios.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: There is no path to 60 votes, at least in
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: the next decade, perhaps until there's another political realignment and
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: all the parties change place and demographic, whatever. It's just
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: not going to happen. So if you're comfortable with the
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: fact that Democrats will never be able to pass another
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: piece of progressive legislation or even moderately progressive legislation again...
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Because you're worried what Mitch McConnell will do if he
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: gets rid of the filibuster, then that's acceptable. But just know,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: we will never be able to pass anything. Ever.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: This is why it was so important, I think, that
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth Warren brought this up in the gun control conversation.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Because the only way that we are going to have real,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: serious gun control, things like assault weapons bans, or buyback.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Or licensing, or Medicare for All, or pay for teachers,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: or any of this stuff.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: The only path to 60 votes is entry game becomes president,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: orders everyone to leave the coasts. They move inland. And
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: now we've got a lot of Californians living in Idaho.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Sweet.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Well, now you've piqued my interest. There was also a
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: big discussion on trade, which shockingly was the only time
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: that anything about the economy was mentioned at all. Let's
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: listen to Amy Klobuchar taking Dan's advice here.
• 35:53
  Speaker 10: What we've got right now, though, George, it's not a
• 35:56
  Speaker 10: focused tariff on steel. What he has done here, he
• 35:59
  Speaker 10: has assessed these tariffs on our allies. He has put
• 36:02
  Speaker 10: us in the middle of this trade war. And he
• 36:05
  Speaker 10: is treating our farmers and our workers like poker chips
• 36:08
  Speaker 10: in one of his bankrupt casinos. And if we are
• 36:11
  Speaker 10: not careful, he is going to bankrupt this country. One
• 36:14
  Speaker 10: forecast recently says that it has already cost us 300,000 jobs.
• 36:17
  Speaker 9: All right?
• 36:20
  Speaker 10: There is soybeans that are mounting up in bins all
• 36:23
  Speaker 10: over the Midwest, in my state of Minnesota and in Iowa.
• 36:27
  Speaker 10: So what I think we need to do is to
• 36:29
  Speaker 10: go back to the negotiating table.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: That's what I would do.
• 36:32
  Speaker 10: I wouldn't have put all these tariffs in place, and
• 36:34
  Speaker 10: I wouldn't have had a trade policy where on August
• 36:37
  Speaker 10: 1st he announces he's going to have tariffs on $ 300
• 36:39
  Speaker 10: billion of goods. On August 13th he cuts it in half.
• 36:42
  Speaker 10: A week later he says he's going to reduce taxes.
• 36:45
  Speaker 10: The day after that he says he's going.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: To do it.
• 36:48
  Speaker 10: The leaders of the world are watching this, and it
• 36:51
  Speaker 10: undermines our strength as a nation. And yes, we want
• 36:54
  Speaker 10: fair trade, but we must work with the rest of
• 36:56
  Speaker 10: the world. And he has made a mockery of focused
• 36:59
  Speaker 10: trade policy, which I think means enforcement, like we've done
• 37:03
  Speaker 10: in northern Minnesota, passing bills, getting President Obama to do
• 37:07
  Speaker 10: more on that so that our workers can benefit. So
• 37:10
  Speaker 10: we are importing, exporting goods, and making sure that is
• 37:16
  Speaker 10: a competitive policy where our goal is that we are
• 37:20
  Speaker 10: making things, inventing things, and exporting to the world.
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: He is defeating that goal.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: I had my notes. Klobuchar won the Pfeiffer primary. for
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: dropping that 300k figure.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I sort of wish you had stopped after the soybeans
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: because it really went quite long after that.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Quit while you're ahead.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: But it was pretty good at the start.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that trade question led to a variety of interesting
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: but different answers. Almost nobody said, yes, I would get
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: rid of the tariffs immediately. Actually, I think Julian Castro
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: came the closest and I thought he, I know we've
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: been critical of his exchange with Vice President Biden. I
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: thought he had a pretty good answer on China. He
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: talked about human rights, talked about negotiating away the tariffs.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: And then he also talked about the Uyghurs in China,
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: which it just showed a grasp of like the issue.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: Warren used this question, I thought, the most effectively to
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: sort of get to her broader economic worldview, which is
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: that trade policy has been written for and benefiting corporations
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: for decades and that we need to have strong allies
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: and that we need to have use trade to get
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: better global standards for workers, not the things we're currently negotiating,
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: which is like things we need, like respect for intellectual property,
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: but things that are going to benefit corporations only.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Look, I think one of the reasons that Warren, Sanders,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: and Biden are in the lead, even though they have,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: at least Warren, Sanders versus Biden have very different ideologies
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: and philosophies on this, is that All of them have
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: a pretty solid economic message, or at least they talk
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: about the economy a lot. And I don't know, and
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: like I said, I thought Klobuchar's, at least the first
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: half of her answer there was quite good. It went
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: on a little long, but it was quite good. I
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: don't know that anyone really made strong economic arguments last
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: night or strong economic case. And I was also just
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: shocked that trade was the only question about the economy
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: when the economy may be headed towards recession, incomes haven't
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: gone up, wages are stagnant. Like, what's going on here?
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: That seems like an oversight on behalf of the ABC
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: moderating staff.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: What I like.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: We made the mention of Amy Klobuchar saying $ 300, 000. I
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: had yelled as loud as I could on Twitter that
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Democrats needed, if no Democrat candidate mentioned that fact, that
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump's own incompetence led to the loss of 300,000 jobs,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: I was going to throw my phone through the TV
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: It's very fortunate it didn't happen because.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Klobuchar saved you a phone.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: She did save me a phone. I'm due for an upgrade.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: The new iPhone's not coming out for a while. It
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: would have been very problematic. I also missed her saying
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: it because I was so busy yelling about no one
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: saying it in the group thread that I only knew
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: it because every person who has ever worked for Amy
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Klobuchar tweeted it at me. And to those people, I say, congratulations.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Good job. I support you.
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: To quote Janet Smoletano, the system worked.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: That.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: That is a deep cut. Who knows that reference? Just Rhodes.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: But there is a larger point here, which is, and
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Kamala Harris did this very well in the conversation on
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: health care, but let's not forget Donald Trump is fucking president.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: He is terrible. There are millions of people watching a debate.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: We should use it as an opportunity to deliver a
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: negative message about Trump.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Like some of the ones we tested in Wisconsin that
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: worked really well.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Like on trade, for instance. Trade is this massive weakness
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: for Trump. Both his incompetency execution of the trade war
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: with China, but also that he's full of shit on it.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: That he ran as this free trader who is right now,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: as we speak, working with Wall Street and the big
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: drug companies to try to pass a new NAFTA that
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: helps corporations and hurts workers. And no one said that.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: No one said that he wants to unilaterally cut taxes
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: for wealthy investors last night. No one said that he's
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: thinking of cutting Social Security and Medicaid in his budget
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: and Medicare as well. No one talked about that either.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: No one talked about his first big tax cut that
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: completely failed.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: Like Pete made it sort of about his general failure
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: to negotiate with the Chinese.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: And then he pivoted to a conversation about Trump just
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: not showing up to a climate change meeting at the
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: G7 in our global absence. So, yeah, people took this
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: question to a bunch of interesting places.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Pete also swerved out of his lane to mention Mike
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Pence's very long and profitable for Trump commute in Ireland.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: That was great.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: So happy that Pete did that.
• 41:49
  Speaker 9: Thank you, Pete.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: There were a couple other issues that weren't brought up
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: at all, like Trump's corruption was not brought up. I mean,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren talks about corruption all the time, so that's wonderful,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: but specifically calling out instances of Trump being corrupt, which
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: there are plenty, especially in the last couple weeks, aside
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: from Pete saying that, and I'm so glad he did,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: didn't hear that a lot either.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, which we also know from our polling is fucking
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: devastating to Trump with the exact voters he needs to
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: win the election.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: And no one mentioned impeachment, which is surprising given that
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: it's a Democratic primary and you think that almost everyone.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Well, it's hard to know whether we're in an inquiry time. Well,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: the lack of clarity is.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: No one want to touch that third rail.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Also, not a single question about reproductive rights, women's issues,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: just sort of huge oversight.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: It's almost as if the Republican Party... all across the
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: South and the Midwest is now trying to ban abortion
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: and to force the Supreme Court to try to overturn
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Roe v. Wade right fucking now.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: One would think that would be a huge issue to
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: talk about, and you just mentioned the Supreme Court. Still
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: hasn't been a question about the Supreme Court, what kind
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: of justices you would nominate. Huge, huge fucking issue.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Do you support court reform?
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: It is sort of like we keep going to these,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: all these debates, we keep having these cul-de-sacs debates Around
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: these like same issues, same debate.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Very sick of the Medicare for all versus Medicare for
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: all debate. I don't think it's helping anyone make a
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: choice at this point. We've had it three times.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: And, you know, Tommy, I'm sure you notice like people say, oh, well,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: there's a couple of foreign policy questions, but like foreign
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: policy is like. half the world's issues. Or half the
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: United States' issues.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: They do sort of treat it like we treat it
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: in the State of the Union.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: It's true.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: You get minutes 50 to 65.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: Here's your one question on Afghanistan, which Joe Biden used
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: to deftly pivot to his Iraq war vote.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: We should talk about that answer. I'll complain about this
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: on Pod Save the World. Please subscribe and download. You know, like, look,
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: Afghanistan was good. The question about Venezuela and Latin America
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: was interesting and kind of hadn't been asked before. But yeah,
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, there was major news out of Israel this week.
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: Bibi Netanyahu saying he was going to annex settlements in
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: the West Bank. That whole Iran deal thing, sort of
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: still a problem. The North Korea diplomacy is going disastrously wrong.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I would love to have seen some time
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: for that.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: So since there were only 10 candidates on stage, I
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: figured we'd just go sort of one by one here
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: at the end to talk about how they all did.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Let's go back to Joe Biden, who we started with.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: And obviously there's a lot of commentary today on his
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: exchange with Castro, but I actually thought his more problematic
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: answer was it started, it was in response to a
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: question about the legacy of slavery and what he would
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: do to sort of help overcome America's legacy of slavery.
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: Mr.
• 44:43
  Speaker 8: Vice President, I want to come to you and talk
• 44:45
  Speaker 8: to you about inequality in schools and race. In a
• 44:48
  Speaker 8: conversation about how to deal with segregation in schools back
• 44:52
  Speaker 8: in 1975, you told a reporter, I don't feel responsible
• 44:55
  Speaker 8: for the sins of my father and grandfather. I feel
• 44:58
  Speaker 8: responsible for what the situation is today, for the sins
• 45:00
  Speaker 8: of my own generation, and I'll be damned if I
• 45:03
  Speaker 8: feel responsible to pay for what happened 300 years ago.
• 45:07
  Speaker 8: You said that some 40 years ago. But as you
• 45:11
  Speaker 8: stand here tonight, what responsibility do you think that Americans
• 45:14
  Speaker 8: need to take to repair the legacy of slavery in
• 45:17
  Speaker 8: our country?
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: Well, they have to deal with the— look, there is
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: institutional segregation in this country. And from the time I
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: got involved, I started dealing with that— redlining, banks, making
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: sure that we are in a position where— look, talk
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: about education. I propose that what we take is those
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: very poor schools. the Title I schools, triple the amount
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: of money we spend, from 15 to 45 billion a year,
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: give every single teacher a raise to the equal raise
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: of getting out the $ 60, 000 level. Number two, make sure
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: that we bring in to help the teachers deal with
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: the problems that come from home. The problems that come
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: from home, we have one school psychologist for every 1,500
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: kids in America today. It's crazy. The teachers are, and
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: I'm married to a teacher. My deceased wife is a teacher.
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: They have every problem coming to them. We have to
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: make sure that every single child does in fact have Three-, four-,
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: and five-year-olds go to school. School, not daycare.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: School.
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: We bring social workers into homes and parents to help
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: them deal with how to raise their children. It's not
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: that they don't want to help. They don't know quite
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: what to do.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Play the radio.
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: Make sure the television, excuse me, make sure you have
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: the record player on at night. Make sure the kids
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: hear words. A kid coming from a very poor school,
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: a very poor background, will hear four million words fewer
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: spoken by the time they get there. There's so much.
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: I'm going to go like the rest of them do,
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: twice over, okay?
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: Tough.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, guys, I just, I don't know. Like, I've read
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: the transcript of that answer. multiple times now just to
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: try to dissect in the word salad what he was
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: trying to say. And it's really hard. It's really hard.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: So what we didn't play for you is that answer
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: goes on to a conversation about Venezuela and Biden's support
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: for stabilizing the Northern Triangle countries, I believe, during the
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: Obama administration. So how we got there, I couldn't tell
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: you either. There must be Going back to the first
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: part of the answer, there must be some social science
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: that says that young or economically disadvantaged kids don't hear
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: enough words and it limits their reading comprehension or vocabulary.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: It's something called the word gap.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: I know this because Hillary Clinton used to talk about
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: it all the time. It's like one thing I remember
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: from Hillary Clinton.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: But you can't just kind of like spout that out
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: without the context and expect anyone to know what you're
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: talking about.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: This is why Hallie is raising Kyla on Keep It.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: It's going to be some spicy trivia.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: A lot of words in there, though.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: I did a bunch of Googling this morning to try
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: to find this because the takes were all about Biden
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: stumbling through this answer. But I was like, what is
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: he referring to? And I found a Vox explainer about
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: his education plan.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Ezra.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Yes. So his plan also calls for more mental health
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: care in schools and expanding resources for families, including home
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: visiting by nurses for parents of newborns and the creation of, quote,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: community schools in low-income areas that offer social services, doctors,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: and other help. and this is the community schools idea
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: is supported by a lot of different groups and activists
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So it's not like it's, it's
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: a horrible thing, but he, it's on Joe Biden to
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: explain that correctly and not to just sort of like go.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, he just, he just sort of fell apart
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: during that answer. And I don't like, I don't know.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: I think it does raise questions of like, I mean,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: whether you want to talk about age or whether you
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: just want to talk about like, I don't necessarily think
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: it has to do with age because you know, Bernie
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Sanders was up there and didn't stumble through answers like that. And,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: you know, Elizabeth Warren is around 70 years old and
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: like bounces around up there like she's 40. So I don't.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: And also, so Booker criticized Biden along similar lines as
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: Castro in a post-debate CNN interview. But then he later
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: characterized it. He said, no, this isn't like an age thing.
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: This is something I've noticed and wondered about for a
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: long time. Like, can this guy carry the ball over
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: the finish line was the point. And I think they're
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: trying to make, you know, it's an electability argument as
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: much as a fitness for the job argument.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: If you were sitting in Biden's war room last night,
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: you've probably felt amazing about the first half of the debate.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: He was very strong on health care.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: He was energetic. He seemed in control. That's the question
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: that you've been answering, right? It is, does he have
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: the energy to and the acuity to debate Donald Trump.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: That's been the subtext of all the conversations. It's what
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: Castro brought to the debate stage in that question, and
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Cory Booker did in the interview afterwards. And in the
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: first half of the debate, I think he clearly passed
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: that test. The second half of the debate, not so much.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: He's sort of a 90-minute debate guy in a three-hour
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: debate world.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: And look, we know the people on Biden's team. There's
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: no way in that debate war room, when he gave
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: that answer that we just heard, that everyone thought that
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: was a good answer or that everyone thought that was okay.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: I know that people are putting their heads in their
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: hands for that answer. I just, I mean, I don't
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: know for sure, but I can just, I would bet it.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: I would bet it because it wasn't good.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: I also think that this conversation is related to the
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: fact that Biden's campaign has leaned so heavily on the
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: electability argument. When you make that be, and it's not
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: even just that he is the most electable in this, like,
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Biden doesn't have an electability argument like an Amy Klobuchar
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: or a Beto O'Rourke has, where he has a proven
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: record of winning, or Steve Bullock, presuming he's still in
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: the race. He doesn't have a record of winning in
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: red states or battleground states. He's from Delaware. It's very blue.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: But he's arguing that he is the safe alternative to
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: beating Trump. He is our, quote unquote, best bet. And
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: when you lean so heavily on that, as opposed to
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: what you would do in the job or why you're
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: the most experienced or able person to do the job,
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: these questions rise to the surface much faster because they
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: then become a question of, does he have the capacity
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: to beat Trump?
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: I also think when you watched him during that answer
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: and then he goes on and starts, he says, I'm
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: going to keep talking because everyone else gets to keep talking.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: And then he goes back to Venezuela for some weird reason.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: You didn't think that made sense?
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: You know what it said to me? Because he seemed
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: a little angry. And I think that the there's a
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: little danger with the Biden campaign right now of feeling
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: a little aggrieved that they're getting so much shit from people.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: And you saw that in the Ryan Lizza piece in Politico,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: how they said, you know, the media hates us and
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: it's all a bunch of.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Two Ryan Lizza mentions.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: In one podcast. So, you know, the online left and
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: the people on Twitter don't represent the Democratic electorate and
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: they're all attacking us for everything. And look, I get
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: some of the critique that the Biden team makes of
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: the press and Twitter. I happen to agree with. I
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: understand why they're upset. But also, like, It's getting them
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: to a point where they're becoming angry and they're reacting
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: in anger. And I think that's part of what Biden's
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: answer was about. Like he was pretty upset. Like he
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: thought he was about to get challenged on race again.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: And because he was, he started getting his dander up
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: and was like a little annoyed by it. And it
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: didn't it just doesn't work for them. Being aggrieved about
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: this does not work.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: The subtext of the Venezuela, the Northern Triangle money conversation.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: part of his answer was, these clowns think they can
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: deal with Venezuela? I've met with Maduro. I've gotten this funding.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: And he took us on this journey that was impossible
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: to follow unless you really knew his record.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: But it's a better journey for him to be on
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: than the one his campaign is currently on.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: To Venezuela?
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: To experience.
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: Well, but, okay, so let's talk about this Iraq answer
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: he got later. He got asked about his Iraq war vote.
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: He first took it to Afghanistan, where he talked about
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: how he opposed the surge in Afghanistan. He sort of
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: wades into a bleak critique of coin strategy versus counterterrorism strategy,
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: which is something I only understand because I sat in 16,000
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: hours of Situation Room meetings in 2009 when we debated this.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: Then he referred to Afghanistan really being three countries, which
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: I think is referring to the tribal areas between Afghanistan
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: and Pakistan. Everyone else thought he was talking about partitioning Iraq.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Who knows?
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: Then we went back to Iraq, where he tried to
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: argue that his Iraq war vote was intended to give
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: Bush leverage for more inspections, and it feels about 16
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: years too late for me to to re-litigate what that
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: vote was about. I feel like that didn't work so
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: well for John Kerry. And then the answer concluded with
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: analysis about the Shia and the Kurds not coming together
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: to fight against ISIS. And it was just a fucking mess.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: And then Bernie comes in and says, I never trusted Bush.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: I opposed the war. What were you thinking? If your
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: judgment and experience on foreign policy is the reason people
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: should vote for you, you were wrong about this fundamental point,
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: which is something Barack Obama did to devastating effect against
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton. So it's the convolutedness is a problem in
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: and of itself, because I think you're like, where's this
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: guy going? But then even when you unpack the substance
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: of these arguments, I don't think they're politically beneficial.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: And I will just say, Joe Biden has had moments,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: and someone just mentioned this during the 08 debates, where
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: he was the happy warrior. And he certainly was that
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: against Paul Ryan in the 2012 vice presidential debate and
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Sarah Palin in 08, right? He was a great debater.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: He was a happy warrior. He did great. But he's
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: also had moments, and this is why I don't Know
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: if the age thing is the right critique, because I
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: think for years and years and years, going back 10,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: 20 years, Biden has had a lot of these moments
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: where he just it's like Senateese.
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: We all saw it all the time.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: And you just mentioned John Kerry. I was on the
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: Kerry campaign. I watched John Kerry do this same thing.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Like they're so in the weeds on their policies and
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: their positions. They talk sometimes like they're on the Senate floor.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: And they're going in all these different directions and it's
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: hard to follow. And it doesn't necessarily have to do
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: with age. It has to do with, like, having been
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: in the Senate for a long time.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: What do you conclude from that, though?
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: I conclude that it's something that worries me about Joe
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Biden's candidacy that I've talked about before. And I think
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: it's not, like, necessarily fatal because, as I just said,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: and we just talked about in the first half of
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: the debate, Joe Biden can be an energetic, happy warrior.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: And he can do that, but he can also fall
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: into what we just saw at the end of last
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: night's debate. And I think against Trump, that's worrisome. Yes,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: I agree. It's not like something he definitely can't overcome, but.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: It's a little worrisome.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: And everyone has things that are worrisome about them that
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: I imagine when they're on stage next to Trump. It's
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: not just a Biden thing, but I think what you said, Dan,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: is right, because if your whole thing is on electability,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: and that seems maybe a little shaky because of her performance, then...
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: you need something else to fall back on.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: Biden should be arguing that he has the experience, the
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: proven record, and the relationships to undo the damage that
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: Trump has done more effectively, more officially than anyone else
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: on that stage. You know that because you've seen him
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: do it over decades. You saw him do it in
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: the Senate. You saw him do it working with Barack Obama.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: I've made mistakes. I've evolved over time on certain things.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not perfect, but I've been there and I've been
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: in the fight.
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just like you. I love my gramophone. I
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: love my LPs.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: I am going to bring back wax.
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do it.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: I DJ on the weekends.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: It's polka. The record player. Okay, let's talk about Kamala Harris.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: What are thoughts on Kamala Harris' performance? I thought it
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: was pretty solid.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I really liked that she took on
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Trump and did a lot of like, we have a
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: lot of differences, but what unites us is stronger and
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: we should be talking about Donald Trump and when he's
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: on healthcare. I thought that was a good strategy for her.
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she got a tough question about criminal justice reform
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: and her record on it. The question was essentially, why
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: didn't you use the power you had as the California
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: Attorney General to fight for some of the things that
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: you were opposed to at the time, but now support?
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: And I thought she handled that pretty well. There were
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: a couple times where a little bit of a can
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: line came out, like the, hey, Joe, instead of saying, no,
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: we can't, let's just say, yes, we can. I kind
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: of The Wizard of Oz thing.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, let's get into that.
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: The Wizard of Oz thing, yeah, that ended odd.
• 56:59
  Speaker 10: The bottom line is this. Donald Trump, in office, on
• 57:04
  Speaker 10: trade policy, you know, he reminds me of that guy
• 57:07
  Speaker 10: in The Wizard of Oz, you know, when you pull
• 57:09
  Speaker 10: back the curtain, it's a really small dude.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: You mean The Wizard.
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not even going to take the bait, Senator.
• 57:21
  Speaker 10: Harris, but I am going to take this to Senator Harris.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: That was funny. The George thing at the end was
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: genuinely funny.
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: There was a couple of bad jokes there. Like Amy
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: Klobuchar talking about at the beginning, Houston, we have a
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: problem is unforgivable.
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: That was not great. I mean, Harris's folks were sort
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: of previewing that she was going to try to bring
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: people together. That was kind of the lane that she
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: would fill. It was not nostalgia for the past, like,
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: like Biden, that it wasn't, you know, fights on the
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: left like Bernie and Warren were making, that she was
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: more of a, I guess, a centrist. They probably hate
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: that word. But I don't know if she succeeded at that.
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: But it was interesting that they told reporters that that's
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: their path forward.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: It's for Kamala Harris. It's still the still fundamental question
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: is for her. She does the best argument against Trump
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: by far. It is clear. It is crisp. It is passionate.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: You can imagine her delivering on the debate stage. The
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: other half of that equation is still lacking. Why her?
• 58:21
  Speaker 9: Right.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: It's like, I think last night was a very, very
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: good performance. I think to become, we almost hold her
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: to a higher standard because we treat her as one
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: of the top.
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: We treat like, we think of her as one of
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: the front runners, because I do believe that she has
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: the clearest path to the nomination. If she can take
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: off of anyone in this field. And I think she
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: has the ability to do it. Most of those candidates
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: on the stage don't have a great answer to the
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: why me, including some of the front runners.
• 58:46
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: But that like that is like if she can nail
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: that piece, if she can do like Warren has a
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: great why her and kind of pretends Trump is the president,
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: which I think is a problem. Kamala Harris has a
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: great anti-Trump and a little lacking on the why her.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: If you could like they'd be the perfect candidate together.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: I agree with that. Any other thoughts about Pete?
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: Pete had very good moments. His close was incredibly powerful.
• 59:11
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: That was really, really good. When you talked about coming out,
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: I thought it was outstanding.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: I think underappreciated for the historic nature of his candidacy.
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: I think the fact that you have a presidential candidate
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: who made the debate stage, who is in... Like, I
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: hate tears, but he is a legitimate contender for the
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: Democratic nomination, is on stage telling, proudly telling his coming
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: out story in a honest way. Like, that is truly
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: an amazing thing that no one would have expected a
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: few years ago, or maybe even last year. And, like,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: that should be, like, I think, like, that should be discussed.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: And I think he did that incredibly powerfully.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: I think he's always pretty good. I am, like, but
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: I think, like, it's harder than ever to break out
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: with pretty good in a field this big with three,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: you know, people seen as front runners that are soaking
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: up a lot of the oxygen. And, you know, I
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: think he's going to need, I don't know, they're spending
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: a lot of money in Iowa. They're investing in infrastructure.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: They're going to go up on TV. Like maybe that
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: will get him over that sort of hump that gets
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: you another look from other voters. But it remains to
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: be seen.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: It's also very possible that he's doing much better than
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: we think because we haven't seen a quality Iowa poll
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: in months.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's weird.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: We could see an Iowa poll probably in the next month.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: that could show him in third or in double digits.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: And these national polls that are what we use to
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: judge people's success and failure are A, irrelevant, and B,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: a lagging indicator of what is happening in the actual
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: states that matter. So there is that possibility.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Klobuchar, we talked about, I think she was the first
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: time in a debate that she really made the case
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: for herself. She's had good moments in other debates, but
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: you sort of saw what her strategy was. She made
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: the case. I thought she did pretty well.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: I thought the story she told in the close about
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: when she had her daughter and was kicked out of
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: the hospital after 24 hours, and that fight to get
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: at least 48 hours for pregnant women, 48-hour hospital stays
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: for pregnant women, was what inspired her to get into
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: public service. I'd never heard her tell that story before,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: and maybe that's my fault, but I thought it was
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: incredibly powerful, and it spoke to her values and why
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: she was in public service to begin with. It was
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: really well done.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: That sound you hear is me crying because Tommy didn't
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: listen to my interview with Amy Klobuchar on this podcast.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: Of course I did, Dan. Of course I did. How
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: dare you say that?
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: Cory Booker, we sort of talked about him too. You know,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: what happens, where does he go from here? I think you're,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: you know, you said Tommy too, you know, Adisu and
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: all the folks on his campaign, they've just been organizing
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: like crazy in Iowa and they sort of keep seeing
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: probably more than we're all seeing from here, which is
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: promising for him. Andrew Yang, we haven't talked about Andrew
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: Yang and we always get in trouble with the Yang
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: Yang for not talking about Andrew Yang. So let's do it.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: What do we, He's a funny guy. He comes off
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: as likable. I think that the freedom dividend is his
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: core policy proposal. It's a universal basic income plan. We've
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: seen polling that suggests universal basic income polls horribly. And
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: I'm not totally sure how announcing that you're giving away
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: 120 grand to random people across the country is going
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: to play. But hey, man, credit to Andrew Yang for
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: being focused on the one thing that he really wants
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: to put forward and being creative.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: If you're looking for something different than Andrew Yang is
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: that lane, everyone else on that stage is.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: Some of them are trying to be different.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: But I mean, they're just, they're like, like obviously Bernie
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: Sanders is a very different politician than a Joe Biden,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: but he's someone who has been a politician in our
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: consciousness for the last four years, basically. Pete Buttigieg, incredibly
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: different background than any other politician, but he talks like
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: a politician.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: A very smart and articulate one who also speaks Norwegian,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: but he speaks like a politician.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: So there are nine politicians on that stage. And there's
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: Andrew Yang. And he there is a there's obviously a
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: lane for that because he was not on the end
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: with Julian Castro and Amy Klobuchar and Beto O'Rourke. He
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: was a lot closer to Joe Biden than those guys were.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: And that is like we can't.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: And they have a beef with the media, which is legitimate,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: which is sometimes all those other candidates you just mentioned
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: are treated as like the next tier. And Andrew Yang
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: is left out of that. But he is in many
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: polls ahead of them.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 9: Yep.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: He also has an online community of people that are
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: supporting their candidate in really smart ways. And whenever there's
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: a debate night, Andrew Yang is trending on Twitter and
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: there are memes going around. He's communicating with people where
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: they are thanks to his campaign, but also thanks to
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: this organization that's just helping him from the outside.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: When I was doing my book tour in 2018, before
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: anyone else was in the race, everywhere I went, someone
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: asked me about Andrew Yang. And whenever I go to,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: I was just at a college campus doing something, uh
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: last week and the kids in the class were there
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of yang a lot of yang gang in
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: that class and so he has like he has built
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: a community he's nurtured it and like he shouldn't be
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: like i think it's a it's a it's a bridge
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: to get to the nomination but it's.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: A powerful immigration story that he told in that close
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: about his father you know what that's a peanut farmer
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: and you know on the floor and coming over here
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: with nothing.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: His NBA takes. He is an NBA fan, which I appreciate.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: His NBA takes are garbage.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: And his takes on the England.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: Patriots are garbage as well. He thinks Carmelo is not washed,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: which is the wrong answer.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: That's weird. I do enjoy his very dry, deadpan sense
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: of humor. Yeah, he's funny. He's really funny in a
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: sort of modern way. Not like in a politician way,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: in a real human way.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when he was in the office, I interviewed him,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: and the poor guy was so sick. He had a
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: horrible cold, but he still had a sense of humor
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: and was funny and was nice to everybody. He's just
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: a good person.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: Uh, Castro, we talked about a bunch. Um, look, I, I,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: there were moments last night, you know, Castro told some,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: you know, his, his clothes was very good and he
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: told his personal story. I thought, you know, at one
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: point he sort of turned to Beto and praised him
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: on the El Paso shooting and then gave a really
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: strong answer on guns. Like there are, there's versions of
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: Julian Castro that I, I like very much and I
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: respect how bold and aggressive he's been on a lot
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: of policies in this race. But I do think like
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: going into, multiple debates now thinking that if I just
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: attack someone a lot, that will get me, that will
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: boost me in the polls and I'm going to telegraph
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: these attacks. I just don't think it's going to work
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: for him. Yeah.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, his challenge is that people are going to
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: probably remember one thing about him from that debate and
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: it's that Biden exchange, but he did have a good
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: moment that you just referenced where he was talking about
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: how Latinos were targeted by this shooter in El Paso.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: And he talked about his policing and criminal justice reform plans,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: which are thoughtful and substantive and have gone further than others.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: So yeah.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: The thing that's so interesting about Castro's candidacy is it's
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: important to remember what brought him on the national stage.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: It was his keynote speech at the 2012 convention, which
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: was a hopeful, optimistic story about America. It's actually the
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: closest version of anyone has done of Obama's 2004 convention speech.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Everyone has tried it. Cory Booker tried it in 2016.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: Everyone's done it. And Castro's the only one who's nailed it.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: And he took that and ended up in the Obama administration.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: He deserves tremendous credit for having really aggressive, progressive policies
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: on a lot of issues. He pushed the immigration issue, his...
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: police reform plan is incredibly important, his criminal justice plan,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: all of those things are very good. And I think
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: he would be better served in being the hopeful, optimistic
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: candidate or politician that he has been for much of
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: his career, rather than someone who's walking onto the debate stage,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: looking to deck someone. And there is a lot to be,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with anger in the Trump era. But
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: I think there is a different, you have to understand
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: the difference between anger and righteous anger. And I think
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: what we saw from Beto on the guns was righteous anger.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: And what we saw from Beto after El Paso was
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: righteous anger. And being angry about what Trump is doing
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: to America, Kamala Harris has done that quite well in
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: many debates as well, is good. Being angry at other Democrats,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: I think, has a different impact in a field where
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: all those people are well-liked by the voters you need
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: to win the nomination.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: Speaking of a little angry, Bernie Sanders. He had moments
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: last night where, like, I thought Bernie was really effective
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: in the second debate. Last night, and you know, he
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: was sick. You could tell he wasn't feeling well. But
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: the sort of the yelling was a little sort of
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: when it was a little too much last night for me.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: I think that was probably voice related.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it might have been. It might have been.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: He's still, I think he is very compelling. Like when
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: he is authentic. We've seen this authenticity for a few
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: years now. But when he's like, I'm the one who
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: wrote the damn bill. It works. And I don't think
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: he did himself any good. Damage last night?
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: No, not at all. I think it was pretty status
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: quo from Bernie.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: He's consistent.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: When I interviewed him here, he was charming and funny
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: and compelling. Bernie also has a gear that is, I think,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: very compelling. I don't know that he has always shown
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: that in debates, but he has that gear. Warren. For me,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: Warren was a pretty solid, great performance. The challenge for
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: her now is because she's always so good, to really
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: stand out, she must have, like, kicked it into another gear.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know that she sort of stood out last night,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: but I thought she was good.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: I think she accomplished everything she wanted to accomplish. And I, like,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: I hate to do, like, who won the debate because
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: I think that's stupid, but I think she walked out
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: of that debate stronger than she walked in.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Because this wasn't... Because no one laid a glove
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: on her. No one really tried.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: It is the strangest thing in the world that Elizabeth
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: Warren is the person standing between every other candidate on
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: that stage and their chance at Joe Biden. And no
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: one attacks her. And even Biden is attacking his did
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: not go after her. Like there was a debate like it. Like,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: I don't consider that debate about whether you pay for
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: your Medicare, your Medicare for all plan or whether by
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: like that. That's not an attack. That's an actual substantive
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: debate about different plans. But they're like everyone. It's like
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: Bernie and Kamala's staff fight all the time. Biden's fights
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: with everyone. Julian Castro fights with everyone. No one fights
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth Warren. And both Ben Smith and Ruby Kramer BuzzFeed
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: have this piece this morning that's about how Elizabeth Warren
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: is the center of gravity in the primary. And I
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: think that's really true. And she's driving the conversation. She's
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: driving people's strategies. And people are legitimately afraid of engaging
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: with her. And I don't fully understand. I think it's
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: fear that they're going to lose the exchange, not some
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: sort of strategic gambit that makes any sense.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I also don't think she's really struggled with a
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: single question from the moderators either.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: Last night, the trickiest one was on Afghanistan when she
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: got pressed on whether she'd bring the troops home without
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: a peace deal if that unraveled the country. And she
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: pivoted to a strong answer about a need for allies.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: And she made an argument about how she was sitting
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: in Afghanistan with John McCain and asking generals about what
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: winning looks like and no one can define it for her.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: And she's like, she can make a case for nearly
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: everything in a way that is just thoughtful and it
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: plays to her strength.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: Maybe that's why they're not attacking her.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: I think the.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: Biggest question for her going forward is to date. She
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: has succeeded. She's the only candidate who has actually moved
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: up in the polls by any real measure. Pete went
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: from zero to five, but everything else is basically the same.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: And she went from, she moved in second place. And
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: she did that by running a campaign where she had
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: no fear of losing. She ran without, you know, no
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: risk aversion, right? The question is, as you get closer
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: to to the frontrunner status, do you get more cautious
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: as you get closer to the White House? And I
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: think that test is going to come for her because
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: at some point, she may not be second in the polls.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: She may be first in some of these early state polls.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: And then how does she respond when there's more scrutiny,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: more attacks, more pressure?
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: And how does she broaden her coalition to eat into
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: Biden's lead and Bernie's lead in some ways with non-college-educated
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: white voters and black voters, which... You know, you cannot
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: win the Democratic nomination by being the toast of every
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: college educated white liberal.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: What happened to someone previewing that they were going to
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: attack her about her work for corporations with the Biden?
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: Biden's got a large constellation of advisors. So it's hard
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: to know when it's an anonymous thing like that, whether
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: that was a plan link or just verbal diarrhea from
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: someone who can't make the morning conference call.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: Also, though, look, no criticism of Biden. Most senators from
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: Delaware are probably not going to be the one to
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: carry the water on your doing work for corporate interests,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: given that your lovely state is where all of them
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: are domiciled.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: Seriously.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: Last candidate, Beto O'Rourke. Look, he had this wonderful moment.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: His campaign is saying they had sort of the best
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: fundraising of the quarter last night. And there are some
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: focus groups where people said that they liked him and
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: they're switching their vote to him from being undecided. A
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: lot of pundits said he won. Where does he go
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: from here? Because he, like a lot of the other candidates,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: is stuck around between 2% and 5% in some of
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: these polls. Where do you go from here if you're Beto?
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: I believe there's an opportunity for one candidate to emerge
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: as a generational alternative to the three frontrunners who were
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: all 70 years of age and up. And that For
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: a long time, we thought that person was going to
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: be Kamala Harris or Pete Buttigieg. I think Beto put
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: himself in that conversation to be that alternative last night.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: And if he can keep doing what he did last
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: night and combine that with the most compelling electability story,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: I think, of anyone in the field, if you can
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: be the person who you don't want to choose between
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: your head and your heart, you can have both. You
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: can have an inspirational candidate who can also win. If
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: he can nail that piece with sort of the passion
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: and boldness of last night, that he's got a shot
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: to be in that conversation, have a chance to do that.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: After El Paso, Beto completely upended his campaign, and he
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: started doing things that no presidential candidate would ever do,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: like go to a gun show or go to states like,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: I believe, Arkansas, which are just not in the early
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: state process. And he was pretty clear, like, look, I'm
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: not going to eat a corn dog on a stick
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: and go on to the state fair when this shit's happening,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: people getting murdered. Well, now he kind of has to
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: get back in the game in Iowa. The steak fry
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: is a week from tomorrow. Now it's called the Polk
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: County Steak Fry. I think he speaks first.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: They ditched Harkin's name?
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: Well, Harkin kind of stopped doing it, and then a
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: bunch of Polk County young Dems and activists resuscitated the thing,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: and now it's big and great again. But there's going
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: to be 10,000 Democrats in a field, chowing steaks, listening
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: to candidates. Beto is first. Can he build on this
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: momentum and get another look from people who basically wrote
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: him off after— His campaign stumbled hard out of the
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: gate after he wasn't in the national conversation, after his
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: fundraising kind of trailed off. There is a window to
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 3: get another look from those people. Iowans are terrified of
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 3: Trump winning. They want someone who is going to take
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: it to them. I think there's time, but you've got
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: to capitalize on this momentum.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: I think he needs to broaden his message on guns.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: to every other issues and to make a larger case.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: Like there was, there was a kernel of this in
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: his opening statement when he said, you know, I realized
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: two things. One, he talked about El Paso and Trump
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: and racism. And he said, two, I think he said
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: something like our politics is too broken and too small
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: and too petty and too corrupt to sort of deal
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: with a challenge like this. And I think you make
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: that argument about every issue and you keep pounding that.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: then you start having an argument because I do think
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: that Beto has the same challenge that Kamala has that
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: Pete has which is on paper on their resumes who
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: they are where they're from what they've done like you
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: know it makes a good argument for their candidacies but
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: I don't think any of the three of them have
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: fully articulated that vision and where they fit into that
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: vision where they fit into this moment and why them
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: and why not everyone else and I sort of look
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: at the three I put Cory Booker in that category
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: too even though he's got a pretty consistent message message
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: about radical love Um, I, you know, all of them
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: haven't quite nailed what that positive message is and how
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: it distinguishes them from the top three candidates. And I
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: sort of think that's their challenge. And, you know, they have,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: like you said, Tommy, they have some time to do it,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: but they're sort of not much.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: Clock's ticking.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: Not much.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: At some point, we've gone very long here, but we
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: should have a conversation about the fact that the three
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: front runners in the Democratic primary are all the people
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: who started with the highest name ID. Like what that
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: says about politics, what it says about the age of
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: celebrity and what it says about media and the inability
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: to break through.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: What it says about 20 something candidates running for president. Yeah.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: It might be, it might be a simpler, simpler explanation
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: than we think. It's just, it's a lot of fucking people.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: And one last thing, if you weren't on that stage
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: last night, except, you know, Tom Steyer, who's coming back
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: for a debate number two, I would really seriously think
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: about staying in the race. Like I don't, whether you
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: should say it, like I just, every, every candidate can
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: do what they want and stuff, but like, If you
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: start missing, you missed one debate. If you miss the
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: second debate in October, you've got to start asking yourself, like,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: what am I still doing? What are my chances here?
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's sort of an existential question. Like, are
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: you in the race? I'm being serious.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: No, I know. That's what I'm saying. Like, it's just,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: It's not like you don't have to fill out paperwork
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: to leave, right? Like, sometimes the market decides whether you're
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: in or you're out.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: Well, you just get to stop raising money, which would
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: be wonderful.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 6: Okay. Okay.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: Those are our takes on debate number three, and we
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: will talk to you guys next week.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: Bye, everyone.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 5: Bye.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 9: Bye.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a product of Crooked Media. The
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: senior producer is Michael Martinez. Our assistant producer is Jordan Waller.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: our sound engineer. Thanks to Carolyn Reston, Tanya Sominator, and
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Katie Long for production support. And to our digital team,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Narmel Coney, and Yael Freed, and Milo Kim,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: who film and upload these episodes as a video every week.