Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S6 E16 _ Frozen Fear_ The Butcher Baker of Alaska - Robert Hansen Part 12

Transcript

S6 E16 _ Frozen Fear_ The Butcher Baker of Alaska - Robert Hansen Part 12 · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to True Crime and Wine Time. I'm Terry and
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm Lama. Tonight we are uncorking the truth one of
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: the darkest crimes and breaking it down together with you.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: In one case, one conversation and one or maybe two
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: glasses of wine.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: It's taking a job.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: It's time to get comfortable and double check those locks
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: before we have done.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: So let's take a sip and dive in.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Hello, Look how it's running. Is this our first show together?
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Like a week and a half? I think, I think so. Yeah,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what day of the week it is.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I know it's a Wednesday, but yeah, but if I mistay,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: and then we've just been ping ponging and forth.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: It's a Hansen. Robert Hansen has broken us. Yes, Alaska
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: has broken us.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Yes that it has high lady and gray Hello. Hello, Yes, right,
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: we're gonna have lots of rants. It's the last one.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: So Hi, love your hair all red like it is.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I blow dried and straightened it, which I
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: do every now and then. It takes a lot to do.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of hair, so it's a whole process.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I don't like to do it very often because it's
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: like forty five minutes to do my hair, just to
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: try it and blow dry and straighten it. Yeah, girl,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I got lots of hair. I blow dry mine and
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: it's h it's thick, it's very I just got straight hair.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of it. It's just straight. There's
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: no pearl, there's no ou.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's not my favorite thing. Hi, Terreesia, Hello,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: hello Lan. Yeah, Paale, you've never used a hair straightener.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: I have so much hair that I sometimes get hand
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: cramps straightened it.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I mean I have I do use a hair straightener,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: but usually when I'm on like day four or day five,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: in so much dry shampoo, I have to.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Oh you know, I scared to tell you. I was
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: watching one of the Real Housewives. I think it was Sali.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: I think it was Mary from Salt Lake City, who
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: uses this in curling iron that you have. Oh my,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: the little white one that yeah that I saw you
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: using your one video. I was like, I know Terry
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: has bed. She's a Real Housewives. Well anyway, hello everyone,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: and before we begin, if you're watching us on YouTube,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: you know the drill, hit that lig button, subscribe to
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: our channel and hit the notification bottle. So you never
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: miss when we go live or dropping episode. I get
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: hair pal tunnel, I do get leg cramps and it'll
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: be like I have a claw.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: It's like I get that from the old curling iron
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I used to use.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I think I'm going to cut my hair bit if.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Savage shows up tonight, just so you know, he doesn't
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: put his makeup on or do any face treatments on
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: his Instagram account that he doesn't have. He last knew
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: that today.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: The more you know, I snipped it for him.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Guys, if you're listening to this on the podcast apps,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: please download and most importantly leave a rating and review,
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  Speaker 2: Noticed that it does, and also of our only YouTube.
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• 3:51
  Speaker 2: do is click the drawing button and pick which tear
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: works best for you.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: So yeah, we just added some new perkins High Studying
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: even just changed some perky perks around. It's a good
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: time to go check it out. Oh we need to
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: update that on our members channel information tab.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I've had it to our never
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: ending to do list.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, I will add it to my to do list
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: right now while you tell us what we're covering, since
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: you are the one who has brought us through this
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: journey and we are forever grateful.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Oh I'm sure after you've all cursed my name how
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: many times? Like damn it, Love, we.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Haven't carsshed your name. We've only cursed eight eighties I
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: saw him pop, but not eighties Alaska and Robert Hanson.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Well, speaking of tonight is part twelve, the very last
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: episode of our Frozen Fear the Butcher Baker of Alaska series,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: where we have been diving deep into infamous serial killer
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Robert Hanson, his endless number of victims who we refuse
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: to let be forgotten, and how all of it could
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: have been stopped numerous times in the state of Alaska
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: has a lot of blood on their hands, and we've
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: been here to shine a light on all of it,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: and we did, and we have and morning. If this
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: is your first episode out of the last twelve, there
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: will be lots of rants and Curtsey words and you'll
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: probably you'll understand very quickly why. But before we do that,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: what are you drinking?
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Tonight, Gerry, I had like one and a half glasses
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: because I wrote it Philip really full left of the
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: summertime rose that was left from the weekend when my
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: best do with here, and I'll be honest, doublehous at
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: home because he probably would not approve. But in case
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: he walks in here, I have water too.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: That's fine. We won't tell him. We won't tell him
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: about it at all. It can be public on the
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: YouTube's but he knows I didn't know it.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: That'll be when he finds I was going to say,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: till he goes and edits our show for us, I
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: forget about that, and he'll say so by the way,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: and I'll.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Shit, I love that. Well. Tonight, I'm finishing my bottle
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: as Fedga s Feda vogah with some seven up and
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: orange juice because I said I was going to buy
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: a bottle for this show and I did, and guess what,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: we're finishing it off tonight. It's amazing.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mentioned that on Midday Missing Today that normally
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: we pair with wine, but Alaska forced us down the
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: vodka train.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: It did it did? Yeah, sure did.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Now. In this final episode of our Journey into the
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Heart of Alaska's darkest chapter begins not with a voice,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: but with a profound and heavy silence. The confession of
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Robert Hansen has ripped the veil off a decade of disappearances,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: turning missing person files into homicide into homicide dockets overnight.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I hate this man, I just I know.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Hey gets me all worked up too. In the District
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Attorney's office, the atmosphere is electric. Now there's no celebration. Instead,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: there is a frantic, meticulous preparation for a sentencing hearing
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: that must do the impossible and quantify the value of
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: seventeen stolen lives and thirty shattered survivors. Frank Rothschild and
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Vic Crumb aren't just preparing a legal argument. They are
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: preparing a reckoning, which we have all been waiting for
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: somebody to do and say something.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Should it happened a long time ago in my.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Opinion, Oh, that'll be other people's opinions too as well.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: We'll see.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: When Assistant District Attorney Frank Roschild stood before Judge Ralph E.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Moody on February twenty seventh, nineteen eighty four, he wasn't
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: just a lawyer presenting a case excuse me. He stood
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: there as a surrogant for the dozens of women who
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: were never given a chance to speak. He stood for
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the few, like Cindy Paulson, who had fought their way
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: back to the light. And perhaps most importantly, he stood
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: as the conscience of Alaska, a state that had been
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: used as a graveyard by the man sitting in the
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: defendant's chair.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Now, Rothschild knew that for justice to be served, he
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: couldn't just list crimes. He had to articulate the sheer
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: depravity of what Robert Hansen had done. In a courtroom
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: filled with heavy air and broken families, Rothschild did something rare.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: He did not spare his criticism of those who had
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: aided and abetted Hanson. That's right, no, he did not.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: He looked at the upstanding men, the friends who had
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: provided false alibis, the people who ignored the red flags
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: because Hansen was a successful businessman, and he held those
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: men to the flame, which about freaking time, as he should.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: In his view. Hanson didn't act entirely alone. He was
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: protected by a shield of respectability that others helped him carry.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Rauschtalk believed that in good conscience those people had to
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: be called out for their role and allowing this nightmare
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: to continue for over a decade. I think they should
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: have been on trial too, but that's just me.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: I think so as well, because it would happened more
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: than one time with the scene.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I know it wasn't just one time.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Hmmm. No. Now, as Frank Rothschild stood before the court,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: he didn't start with the killer's childhood or the baker's trophies.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: He started with the sheer, unadulterated terror of Cindy Paulson,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: much like we did. He reminded the judge of doctor
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: hollings Head, the er physician who had seen a lifetime
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: of trauma, but had quote never seen a woman so
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: scared out of her wits that she'd seen her maker
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: end quote. That's powerful, that's powerful. But even that level
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: of terror wasn't enough to break Robert Hanson's confidence. Because
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Hanson knew something that police didn't. He had a network
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: of protection. Rothschild told the judge.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: That Hanson used to give his victims a speech, a calculated, cruel,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: psychological blow, telling them that it wouldn't do any good
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: to talk because no one would believe them. Who would
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: believe them. Rothschild asked the court a hooker, a dancer
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: who dances naked versus this man respectable and his friends. Quote.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Now, Hanson knew Sindy's escape with the handcuffs and made
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: things risky, so he ran to his good friend John Henning.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: That's right. I love saying their names, and Henning stepped up.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Rothschild laid out the chilling mindset of these men for
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: the court to hear. To John Henning, the brutalization of
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: women on the streets was simply quote an occupational hazard
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: end quote. And he didn't just lie. He actively participated
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: in the cover up. Henning took Hanson's weapons to hide
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: them from suspicious police, and when investigators finally read him
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: the Riot Act and warned him about obstructing justice, Henning
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: stayed as calm and as cool as can be, and
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: he looked in the law in the eye and chose
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: a predator over a victim. Shame on you, John Henning,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Shame on you.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: So, as we say on mid Day, missing people who
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: do that are also predators. Mister Henning, so you have
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: bought yourself that title.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: And I have nothing nice to say about this man.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: They may not have charged him, but in the court
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: of Lama's opinion, the.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Court of Night had in our opinion yet don But
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: the betrayal went even deeper. Rothschild described how Henning and
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Hanson decided one alibi wasn't enough. They went to a
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: cab driver friend, asking him to lie about delivering pizza
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: and beer to provide a secondary layer to their story.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, John Anning sucks now. And then, in perhaps
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: the most stomach turning revelation of the sentencing, Rothschild described
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: the attempt to hunt Cindy even after she reached the hospital.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Henning went to a doctor friend at Humana Hospital, asking
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: him to use his position to dig into the records
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: and find Cindy's name and address. This wasn't just helping
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: a buddy, No, not at all. This was an attempt
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: to silence a witness before she could testify. So before
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: mister Henning decides to be like, oh, I was just duped. Really,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: this does not sound like somebody who was just.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: You know, tampering with the witness. Ser and how he
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: didn't get charges.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: It pisses me off, to be quite frank, like so
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: much disservice has already been done to these victims, and
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: the fact that he was in charge, if anything, is
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: simply more disservice.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thankfully, doctor hollings Head, the man who had seen
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: the terror in Cindy's eyes, refused. He suspected this respectable
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: man was the monster they had been looking for, and
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: he told the other doctor to back off. M hm.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Rothschild finished the section of his address with the line
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: of biting ry sarcasm that must have echoed in the
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: silent courtroom. But mister Henning sure was a good free.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: End, wasn't he the greatest of friends? Hence the sarcasm.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: I do appreciate that Rothschild decided to call them out
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: on their shit in court in front of everybody. And
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: now that on the record, Yes, as it should have been.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Now if the courtroom felt cold before it turned sub zero.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: As Frank Rothschild began to describe the internal world of
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Robert Hanson, he used one word over and over again
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: to define the man, and that's cold. Rothschild didn't just
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: guess at Hanson's motive. He used the killer's own words
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: to convict his soul. He describes how Hanson would grab
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: a woman by the hair, pull her head back, and
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: jam a gun into her face, not just for a compliance,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: but for the charge, the sexual charge he got from
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: her terror.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Have I said how much I hate best man?
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I know, Okay, I know.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I wanted to have complete control and domination. Rothschild paraphrased
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: to Hanson, these women were objects in a twisted game
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: of his own making. He told them that if they
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: just went along with the program that he would let
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: them go. But then came the chilling caveat When asked
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: what happened to the woman who fought back or didn't
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: follow his rules, Hanson's response was as simple as it
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: was horrifying. Well, then they stayed.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: And it was here that Rothschild voiced the theory that
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: has since defined the case in the Annals of True Crime.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: While Hanson was hesitant to admit the full details, the
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: forensics told a story of a hunt. If you will, he.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Hunted them down, Judge Rothschild would declare, he described a
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: predator who didn't just kill, who toyed with his victims
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: like a cat with a mouse. He would release them
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: into the unforgiven Alaskan wilderness, barefoot, terrified and desperate, and
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: then he would track them with this hunting rifle. He
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: wanted them to run, He wanted them to claw at
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: the earth. He wanted to feel the power of being
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the one who decided exactly when their race would end.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: This wasn't just murder. It was a perverted version of
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: the big game hunting that had won him trophies in
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: his living room.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Ah greed, uh greed. Now. Perhaps the most disgusting detail
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Rothschild revealed was Hansen's own name for his killing spree.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: He didn't call it a tragedy or a mistake or
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: even a crime. He called it his summertime project, which, honestly,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know why he called it this, because he
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: killed women at all times of the year. I think
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: he just said that, and it could seemed like he
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: wasn't a monster all of the time. But the dates
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: prove otherwise, sir, So it wasn't just summertime. But anyway,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: let's humor him for a second. They weren't people to him,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Rothschild told the judge. They weren't human beings to him.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: To Robert Hanson, these women were just more game to
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: be harvested. More marks on an aviation map and more
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: projects to fill the long Alaskan days. The respectable baker
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: was gone in his place, said a man who was
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: completely disconnected from the human race.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: As the sentencing continues, Frank Rothschild tackled the question that
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: haunts every true crime case. Why in our modern world
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: we often reach for diagnosis to make sense of the senseless.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: We say was he sick? Or was he crazy? Because
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: it's easier than admitting a human being could choose this
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: level of depravity. But Rothschild did not take the easy
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: way out. He didn't let Hanson hide behind a medical chart.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Now he took the court back to Iowa, back to
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: the acne, the stuttering, and the boy who hid under
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: his bed for days because he couldn't face the world.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Hansen told investigators that he did all of this because
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: he wanted to feel wanted. He claimed motel rooms were
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: too commercial, which is a chilling phrase considering what he
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: did to the women he took. He didn't want a transaction.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: He wanted a fantasy, a very dark fan fanny. He
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: tried to convince himself that the women wanted to be
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: with him, that it wasn't forced, all while he held
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: a gun to their heads. Make it make sense.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: As to say, I'm going to just say to anybody
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: that possibly is watching or hears this holding a gun
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: to someone's head and forcing them to stay, I can
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: guarantee you they do not want to be there.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: No.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: In case you think that made sense that, oh yeah,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: they wanted to be there, I'm going to just tell
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: you now no. No, okay, no. So the why was
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: ultimately about power. I wanted to control things, Hanson said.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: It made me feel masculine. Roschald pulled no punches, summarizing
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Hanson's entire life of violence with one devastating quote from
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: the killer himself. I was just seeing everybody else got theirs.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Then it's my turn to have fun now.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: But Roth's Child knew the fun didn't stop with the kill.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: He described the Summertime Project as a self reinforcing cycle
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: of thrill seeking. This wasn't a man losing his mind.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: It was a man building a collection. This hunter who
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: kept trophies on the wall had a world record. Rothschild noted, well,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: he now has trophies scattered throughout south central Alaska. He
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: painted a very haunting picture for the judge Robert Hansen,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: the respectable Baker sitting alone in his bedroom, pulling the
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: aviation maps from behind his headboard to admire the little
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: X marks. Each mark was a not on his belt,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Each one was a memory he could revisit to feel
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: powerful all over again. Look at all of those dots,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Like I've seen it so many times, and it is
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: still shocking every time I see that map.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I don't care how many times you look at it.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: It takes your breathway or it doesn't mean it's just
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: like it does m hm.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: It like because you know, we say how much it is,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: but then when you see all those numbers and all
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: those dots, you're like, holy shit.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Even in the confession phase, rothschilds warned the court that
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: they were still being played. He called Hanson a compulsive
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: liar who only gave the police what he absolutely had
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: to and not a shred. More to Hanson, the legal
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: process wasn't about remorse. It was the final stage of
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: the hut. It's a game, your honor, rothschild said. It's
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: a game with authority, it's a game with police. It's
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: trying to out fox. It's the big thrill. He had
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: spent his life being the boy no one noticed the
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: stutterer everyone mocked. Through these murders. He had finally become
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the big hunter he always dreamed of being, and he
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: wasn't about to give up his final secrets for free now.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Rothschild then turned his attention to the one thing Robert
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Hanson always claimed to value his family. For years, Hanson
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: had used his role as a husband and father as
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: a shield, even back in nineteen sixties Iowa. After the
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: arson arrest, he would weep about how much he cared
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: and how worried he was about the impact on his
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: left ones. But Rothschild didn't see a devoted family man.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: He saw a strategist, which I agree.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: I agree that's fiction, Rothstyal told Rothschild told the judge.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: He argues that Hansen family was nothing more than a
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: prop They were pieces of a set he built so
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: he could hide behind a mask of decency. If he
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: had a wife, if he had a home and a business.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: People would look at them and see a pillar of
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: the community. Guys, it was all just part of the game,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: the ultimate camouflage for a predator.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: And it worked. Obviously, it didn't matter how much evidence
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: like literally in their face. It worked every single time.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: But As the sentencing reached its peak, the focus shifted
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: back to the victims. While Hansen had led them to many,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: the map was far from complete. Now there are your honor,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: thirteen bodies still out there to find. Rothschild stated.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: That number. It was a staggering reminder of the scale
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: of the tragedy. Despite the confession, despite the plea deal,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: and despite the cooperation, thirteen families were still waiting. Thirteen
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: women were still lying in the cold Alaskan earth, their
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: locations known only to the man sitting in the courtroom.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: It was the final haunting proof that even as he
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: was being sent to life behind bars, Robert Hansen was
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: still holding on to the power of the secrets. I mean,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: have they thought of waterboarding? I know it's against the wall,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I know it's against the law.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it was against the law in the
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four as well.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I know. But how frustrating. There's a mark on the map,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: so you know there's a person there.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. Now, as the sentencing reached its climax,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Frank Ross had looked at the reality of the legal
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: system in Alaska. The death penalty wasn't an option, but
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Rothschild argued that even if they could put Hanson to death,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: it would be far too easy for him.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Hanson had already admitted I'm going to die in prison anyway.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: It would probably probably it probably would be better for
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: me if I die quick. Rothschild used that admission against him.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: He wanted the punishment to be slow. He wanted it
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: to be a daily reminder of everything Hansen has stolen.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: He painted a picture of the life handsome would lose
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: the smell of a mountain meadow, the sound of a
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: trickling creek, the thrill of the wide animals, wild animals.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: He once headed.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: The man who treated the Alaskan Wilderness as his personal
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: private killing field. Bless you, bless you. Sorry, it was
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: such a funny sceneze oh, bless you.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Oh did you hear it? I thought I muted.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: It barely barely. You're fine. I'll start that part over
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: again now. The man who treated the Alaskan Wilderness as
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: his personal private killing field would spend the rest of
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: his life staring at four gray walltz. He would be
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: forced to breathe the stale, recycled air of a cell
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: For every remaining breath he took Hanson had requested two things,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: a transfer to a federal prison and psychiatric counseling for
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: some stupid reason that makes no sense because he literally said,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: I lied to l all the psych people beforehand, So
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: like he's.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: In there for life. Why do we need him to
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: get therapy?
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Why do we need him to be better personally?
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: I think so he could manipulate more well, control the narratives,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: you know. But yeah, yeah, now Rothschild did agree to both,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: but it was a biting clinical reason for the latter.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: We agree, Rothschald said, if for no other reason then
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: to try to make him aware of what a monster
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: he is. He didn't want counseling to heal Hanson. He
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: wanted it to strip away the delusions, the Madonna horror complexes,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: and the excuses about acne and stutters. He wanted Robert
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Hansen to finally be forced to look into a mirror
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: and see exactly what the rest of the world saw,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: a predator who traded human lives for summertime. But I
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: don't think it's possible.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, spoiler alert, nothing comes out of it, just like
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: right now, there's.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, I say, transfer him somewhere and tell him
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: that he did stuff to children and let Jim pop
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: one of them. Is that me?
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Maybe a little bit man, that's not the most appropriate.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: He's already I mean, remember, he did ask to be
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: transferred because he was worried he was going to be
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: murdered in prison by somebody who knew these women. I
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: didn't want murdered. I just well, he knew that if
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: he stayed in Alaska, things weren't going to be good
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: for him.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: He just see some plastic surgery done by a.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: Fest As Rothschild came to the end of his argument,
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: he asked the judge to impose the max for each charge.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Hold, please, would I find something to kill the spider?
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: It? Okay, I had a snake today and you had
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: a spider.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: I would much rather have this spider cold.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Please.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Yes. I sent Lama the picture of the snake that
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: crawled up on the back of our veranda, and I said,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: so you want to come hang out with me?
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I was not amused. All right, sorry about that? Okay?
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: What was I saying?
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, so he's asking the judge for a max sentence
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: on each charge. Before he took his seat to rest,
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: the last words were quote for those people that he
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: has slain, for those lucky enough to have survived, survived,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: for all of us, Your honor, we ask that you
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: rid us of this beastly man forever.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: When it was finally time for the defense to speak,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: train Teresa, it is snake time, so be careful. There
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: was no grand plea for mercy, there was no attempt
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: to humanize the man in the prisoner's box. Instead, his attorney,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: mister Dewey, stood up and delivered a statement that echoed
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: with a profound sense of helplessness. Your honor, it's my
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: client's wish and desire that nothing further be said on
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: his behalf. And that concludes my remarks.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: That's it. And think about that for a second. Okay.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: An attorney's job is to be the voice for their client,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: especially at the most critical moment of their life. But
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Dewey was rendered mute, and not by the law, but
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: by Hanson himself. And you have to wonder if behind
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: that professional mask, Dewey felt a wave of relief, because
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I bet he did, because he was just as surprised
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: actually about the amount of murders there was.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he was okay with it.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I mean, how do you defend the indefensible,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: and how do you stand up for a man who
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: turned the wilderness into a graveyard. I mean, I wish
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: that more would have been said, but I am happy
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: for Dewey's sake he didn't have to. What do you say,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: you know, because.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: You know, he didn't want to be his attorney.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: And he would have had to if Hanson would have
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: said would have said that, he had to have said something.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: He would have had to so he I don't think
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Hanson did it to be kind, but I don't want
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: it being a kind thing.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think he did it to be nice
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: to his attorney. He just didn't want anything said about
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: him at all.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: He just yeah. Judge Ralph Moody now stood at the
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: apex of a legal system that had quite frankly failed
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Alaska for over a decade. He was the one who
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: had to look into the abyss and try to make
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: sense of it. But before he delivered the hammer blow
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: of justice, he gave Robert Hanson one final opportunity. The
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: law requires it, The judge asked, mister Hanson, you may stand.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Do you have anything to say before the court pronounces judgment?
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Now? Hanson, the man who had spent years using words
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: to manipulate and terrorize his victims, the man whose stutter
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: had once made him an object of pity, stood up
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: and he looked at the judge, and in a final
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: act of cold detachment, he offered nothing. No, sir, I
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: don't yeah. No, No apologies to the families, no explanation
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: for the thirteen missing women, no remorse for Cindy Poulson.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Just a flat, hollow no.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Not even and I'm sorry to his wife. Nope, in family.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, what's not about that he cared so much about?
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: I mean nothing. I mean that says a lot, guys.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the butcher Baker was finished talking. Now it was
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: time for the State of Alaska to have the final word.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: It just pisses me off that he had nothing to say. Nothing,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: And that's all we need to know about Robert Hanson, really.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, anything he would have said would have been
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: a lie. So yeah, So, as Judge Ralph Moody began
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: to speak, he didn't start with Robert Hanson's crimes. He
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: started with the world's failure. I'm gonna say Alaska's failure. Oh,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: he'll get this, especially I know but I'm going to
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: say I'm going to start with them. In a moment
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: of rare and brutal honesty from the bench, he turned
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: the light back on the system itself. What we have
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: seen here today, Moody said, is a condemnation of society
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: as a whole.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't pull his punches. He included everyone in
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: the failure, the probation officers, the police, the psychiatrists, and
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: even the everyday citizens who saw red flags and stayed silent.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: He even placed himself in the collective pot for criticism.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: As a judge and a lawyer, he was acknowledging that
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Robert Hanson wasn't just a monster who appeared out of
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: this air. He was a monster who had been facilitated
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: by the apathy and the biases of the institutions designed
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: to stop him.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Judge Moody then addressed how Hanson chose his targets. He
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: noted that Hanson prayed on those he thought society wouldn't miss,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: those from what he called the lower point of society.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: But Moody corrected that narrative immediately. He told the court
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: that those women, despite the lives they were forced to lead,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: were angels compared to the man sitting before him.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: It was a final judicial restoration of dignity to the
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: women Hanson had spent years trying to erase. They weren't
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: just street prostitutes or exes on a map. They were
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: the victims of a society that turned a blind eye
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: while a predator used its own failures as a hunting ground.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: The judge's closing goal was simple, to ensure that the
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: air Robert Hanson breathed for the rest of his life
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: was prison air. He looked at the baker and told
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: him flatly, Sir, I have to consider you the first
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: offender in all respects.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Now, Judge Moody gave the prosecution everything. He didn't just
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: give a life sentence. He stacked the maximum penalty for
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: every single count until the number reached a staggering four
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: hundred and sixty one years. It was a sentence meant
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: to outlast the memory of the man himself.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: As the gavel fell, the message was clear. Robert Hansen
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: would never smell a mountain meadow again. He would never
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: see the wild animals he loved to kill. He would
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: remain behind bars until his body finally failed him, exactly
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: as Frank Rothschild had requested good for him. I don't
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: know what there is. How do you punish an evil
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: person like that? They don't care? So there's really if
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: you think about it.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: I just when it comes to the sentencing, I'm very
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: pleased with Rothschild calling out the situation and the people
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: the judge doing the same thing. They can't erase anything
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: that happened, but at least it was fucking acknowledge of
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: how back how everybody has blood in their on their
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: hands for this. Yeah, did you not find that doctor
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Lewis interviewed Hanson in nineteen eighty three?
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: What? I didn't know that? So I had to put
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: that up because.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, I probably cut at she's around.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Could you please go and do your magic and find
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: those for us?
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And I didn't see anything about doctor Lewis in
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: my notes. I doubt she got much or anything worthwhile.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: To be quite honest, I would love to just hear
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: his lies.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: I would love to just hear him try to she.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Probably Oh my god. But well, I was gonna say,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: we'll read and listen to it, but I'll have lots
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: to say say I forgot.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Now, after the sentencing Sergeant Glenn Flothe excuse me hosted
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: a celebration dinner at the Coursar. The Corsair was an
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: anchorage institution, a basement hideaway that felt leagues away from
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: the gritty streets of the avenue. With its low ceilings,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: nautical rope, and wooden polleys. It felt like the belly
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: of an eighteenth century ship, which I want to go to.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: I dot it's round, but that sounds awesome.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: No, you're not going to Alaska now.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: It was a place of German comfort food, caviare and
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: high backed booths, the perfect fortress for a group of
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: people who had spent months living in the shadow of
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: a serial killer.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: The guest list was a testament to the strange make
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, to the strange makeshift family that had formed
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: around the case of star witness Cindy Paulson. These were
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: the people who had kept her alive when she was
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: in her darkest days. There was Glenn's wife, in Cindy's
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: primary lifeline, who had answered frantic, middle of the night
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: phone calls for months, offering the steady maternal presence Cindy
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: had lacked. There was the Rotor Ruder Lady, who was
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: the safe house operator who provided a roof and a
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: lock when the world felt unsafe. And there was a
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: woman from the Gentleman's Retreat massage parlor who had been
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: the first to sound the alarm when Cindy's trauma sent
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: her fleeing back into the night.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Now, while the adults around her celebrated a victory, Cindy
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Paulson sat in the middle of the bubble of voices,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: feeling like a ghost at her own feast. To everyone else,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: the case was closed and the monster was caged. But
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: to Cindy, the finality of the sentencing was just the
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: beginning of a terrifying void.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: There's a scargo on the menu, with roasted quail and
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: some kind of pet taste stuff. But I'm not hungry.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: I'm somewhere else. I'm thinking about my future. I've been
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: a prostitute since I was still a child. What am
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: I going to do next? I can't go back to
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: what I was doing. It almost got me killed. That
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: part of my life was over, or supposed to be over.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: Now, just eighteen years old, she had survived a monster,
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: but she was also a girl who had known nothing
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: but the life since she was a child. The meek
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Baker was going to prison, but Cindy was facing a
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: different kind of life sentence, the struggle to reinvent itself
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: that had been nearly erased in the back of a
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: piper super.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Cub Recognizing that she could never truly heal on the
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: streets of Anchorage, where every corner held a ghost, Cindy
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: relocated to the Lower forty eight. She chose the difficult
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: path of total reinvention. Far from the avenue, she built
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: a life defined by the very things Hansen tried to
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: take from his victims, stability, family, and a future.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: And she eventually married and became a mother to three children.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: In creating a supportive and loving home, Cindy didn't just
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: move on. She staged a quiet, powerful rebellion against the
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: trauma of her youth. Every milestone of her children's lives
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: served as a marker of her own resilience. Good for her.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: I know your path does not have to define your
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: future people, and I think we forget that so often.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: And she's a testament. Yeah, Cindy's story has transcended her
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: own life to become a cornerstone of advocacy for victims' rights.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Whilst she has largely largely avoided the spotlight. Her survival
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: remains a symbol of hope. She views her role with
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: a profound, humble gravity. She doesn't see herself as a
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: celebrities that as a witness with a divine mandate. I
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: was made to do what I did. God put me
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: here for a reason to catch him. I did what
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: I was supposed to do. I did God's will.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Now she carries her survival though like a gigantic weight,
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: the heavy responsibility of being the one who lived to
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: tell the story that seventeen other women could not. She
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: is the living bridge between the horror of the Nick
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: River and the justice of the court room. By surviving,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: she didn't just save herself. She ensured that the names
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: of the X marks on Hanson's map would finally be heard.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: I love to see her smile too, I do to yeah.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: The transition from the sterile environment of the interrogation room
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: to the rugged terrain at the Nick River was a
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: logistical nightmare for Sergeant Glenn Flothy, While the confession provided
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: the what the where required, putting the butcher Baker back
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: in the air, the very place where he felt most powerful.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Now, Sergeant Flothy was haunted by the psychological profile of
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: the man he had spent months hunting. He knew that
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: for Robert Hanson, control was everything. In a small state
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: trooper bell helicopter, Hansen would be inches away from the pilot,
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: and Flothee's sleepless night was filled with a reoccurring vivid
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: horror of Hanson reaching for the controls, and the chopper
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: spiraling towards the Alaskan permafrost, and the killer laughing, the
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: laugh of the howling dead as he took his captors
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: with him in a final fire react of defiance. That's
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: probably what I would be dreaming about too.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Like, that's what I would have been dreaming too.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: My anxiety have been like that is definitely going to.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Be a weight at help. Lothy knew that to survive
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: the trip they needed distance and a physical barrier. He
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: needed a Hueye, a larger, dual pilot aircraft with a
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: separate cabin, But he feared the bureaucracy. At five thousand
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: dollars a day, he expected a firm note from the
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: top brass who are already eyeing the massive bill for
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: the year long investigation. Yeah, that would be hard to
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: ask for.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: I mean five thousand dollars a day in nineteen eighty four,
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: it's a lot of their budget. Yeah, I mean even now,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: it's a lot of a town's budget. But like, that's
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: a lot of money in nineteen eighty four.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: They're getting off cheap in my opinion.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: But really, in nineteen eighty four, no, they.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Should have had to pay out millions.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Oh I know, Oh, okay, yeah, I get what you're saying.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: That's true, that's a fair point. However, the climate of
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: Trooper headquarters had shifted, the confession had changed everything. When
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Fluffy approached Colonel Kolovowsky, I hope that's right, expecting a
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: fight for the budget, he was met with a surprising
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: green lights. Probably could you don't want ingriage to be
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: burning down your headquarters.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: The moment was captured by a rare gesture of departmental brotherhood.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: Kolovawski didn't just approve the rental, he acknowledged the monumental
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: weight Fluffy had been carrying. Anything you need, Glenn, Oh,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: and by the way, congratulations, have a cigar. The cigar
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: wasn't just a reward. It was a signal that the
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: hunt was over and the recovery the most somber. Part
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: of the trooper's duty was about to begin now.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: As they flew over the map, pointing out the graves,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Hanson spoke as if he was taking inventory of a warehouse.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: There's one here, one next to this tree, one under
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: the road. Troopers searching for bodies meanwhile continued their flight
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: fight with mother nature. The ground was still frozen eight
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: to ten inches down, and they would soon learn that
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Hansen didn't bother to dig deep graves for his victims.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: He didn't have time for that. Sometimes he didn't bother
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: with graves at all. In his haste, he simply left
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: them where they fell. And here his lack of respect
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: had a silver lining, because bob he's left on the
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: ground were easier to find. And listen, If you don't
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: live where the ground freezes, okay, you ain't doing nothing
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: until like May. It's impossible to like you will break
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: equipment trying to do this.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: What's the warmest Alaska ever gets? Do we not?
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think they probably get into like seventies
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: and eighties and July in August, I would think, But
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: it's a very short time, like even in April and May,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: it's still frozen there's still snow everywhere, so they have
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: just a very short window.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: So it's Finland then, just have a very small window.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I only say that because some of the ones
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: that did happen to be killed or disappeared in the
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: summertime they had mentioned the temperature was like in the
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: seventies or eighties. I don't know if it's consistent or not.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but I know it's a very small
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: window like they might. But I maybe, now this was
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four, with you know, global warming and shit,
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: they might. I don't know, but it's a very like
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: I could. There's probably like a whole week out of
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: the whole year. I could visit Alaska and be like, Okay,
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: this is fine. Otherwise it's too cold. I think you.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: I'm just kidding.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: What, don't monit cold? As long as it stays cold, Okay?
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: No, I think June, July and August is reasonable. But
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: I imagine that their fall probably starts a lot sooner.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Come Like in Texas, we don't have spring,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: we have summer. We go from winter to ninety degrees.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: So I asked me to refill my drink because it's
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: only like half gone. Oh boy, he made quite strong.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: So I'm just oh, is that what that face was?
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah? What you were doing that because of my ninety degrees.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: On April twenty first, nineteen eighty four, the first breakthrough
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: of the aerial search heard near the Kinnick arm Bridge.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: I think it's Melaia Malaya Larson, a twenty eight year
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: old who had been missing since July nineteen eighty one,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: was the first to be brought home.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: During this phase, Hanson had directed the troopers to a
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: parking area near the bridge, a location that really showed
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: his brazenness disposing of a human being so close to
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: a site of public transit. Identified as his tenth victim,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: Malaya's recovery was the first domino to fall, proving that
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: the X marks on the map were as accurate as
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: they were lethal now. The recovery of Sioux Luna on
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: April twenty fourth, nineteen eighty four, was the moment the
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Butcher Baker Moniker transitioned from a town Vloyd headline into
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: a sickening physical reality for the recovery team. Sue was
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: just twenty three years old when She was reported missing
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: in May of nineteen eighty two. For two years, she
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: was a name on a poster.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Hanson's confession regarding her death that was uniquely cruel. He
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: admitted to stripping her naked before releasing her into the
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: dense Alaskan brush. He didn't just kill her, He hunted
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: her like an animal. He gave her a head start,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: watching as she fled in a state of total vulnerability,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: before tracking her through the spruce and silt. He ended
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: the hunt with a single, high velocity gunshot.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Now At first during the search had found discarded clothing,
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: and then a few days later they discovered the first
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: of her remains in the banks of Jim Creek, just
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: east of the Old Nick River Bridge. The recovery was
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: agonizingly partial, as it was apparent that a bear had
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: discovered the grave first.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: In the two years since Hansen had discarded her, the
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: natural world had begun to erase her. The forensic team
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: was left to sift through the dirt for fragments of
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: bone and teeth, fighting against a landscape that was seemed
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: determined to keep its secrets.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: I can't, oh my god now. On April twenty fifth,
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four, the search shifted northwest of Anchorage to
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: the rugged terrain near Palmer, Alaska. It was here, in
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: the shadow of the the Hugash Mountains, near a Horseshoe
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: Lake and Little Susitna River, that the recovery team on
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: earthed one of the most haunting mysteries of the entire case.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Hanson's account of his twelfth victim's final moments was as
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: cold as the glacial water nearby. He claimed he picked
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: her up from downtown Anchorage during the winner of nineteen
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: eighty three. He flew her in his Piper Super Club
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: to the remote lake, far from the eyes of the city.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: An autopsy later confirmed a brutal level of violence, as
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: she had been both stabbed and shot.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Now, despite Hansen's claim that she was a sex worker,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: investigators could find no records to confirm her background. She
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: carried no id, no jewelry, and no clue to her
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: former life. The forensic profile painted a picture of a
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: life cut tragically short. She was a white woman, likely
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: between the ages of seventeen and twenty three, but there
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: were no missing person reports from that era that matched
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: her description.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Because no one came forward to claim her Orseshoe Harriet
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: was eventually laid to rest in the Anchorage Municipal Cemetery.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: She was buried under a headstone that marked her only
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: as a known sorry guys, a silent testament to the
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: woman who fell through the cracks of society and into
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: the hands of a predator.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Now, for the investigators, Horseshoe Harriet represented the ultimate frustration
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: of the Hansoon case, even with the killer standing right
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: over her grave, the who remained out of reach. She
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: became the face of the missing but not reported, the
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: women whose lives were so marginalized that their disappearances didn't
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: trigger a single phone call to the police.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: Sorry about my dogs, guys. Hanson didn't know her name,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: and for over thirty years, neither did the rest of
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: the world. She remained a ghost of the Little Sistina,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: a reminder that the butcher Baker didn't just take lives,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: here raised identities. I hate this man. I'm sorry I.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: Hate him that I do too. But in October twenty
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: twenty one, the silence was finally broken. Through the relentless
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: advance of genetic genieology, Horseshoe Harriet was finally given her
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: real name, Robin Helke. The journey to find her began
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: in earnest in twenty fourteen, when investigators exhumed her remains
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: to create a DNA profile for the FBI's national database.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: When they failed to produce a hit, they turned to
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: a private lab in twenty twenty for whole genome sinquencing.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: By uploading her profile to public genealogy databases, investigators were
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: able to do what nineteen eighties technology could not. They
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: built a family tree from the ground up.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: The investigation traced a young woman born in Colorado in
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three. Robin's life was a map of movement
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: and struggle. She lived in Anchorage in the late nineteen
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: seven moved to Arkansas as a teenager, and returned to
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: Alaska in nineteen eighty one to live with her father
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: and stepmother. By nineteen eighty two, Robin was living on
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: the streets of Anchorage, the exact hunting ground where Hanson
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: scouted his problems. She vanished on July nineteenth, nineteen eighty three.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Now I remember Hanson said that he met her in
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: the winter. I can't believe everything he says. Now, one
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: of the most tragic excuse me, one of the most
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: tragic revelations of Robin's identification was the reason she remained
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: Harriet for so long. It's because she was never officially
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: reported missing. Her parents, now deceased, never made the call.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: Whether it was due to a fractured family dynamic or
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: the transient nature of her life on the streets, Robin
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Pelke had simply slipped through the cracks of the system
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: until she crossed paths with a monster at a lake.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: I have to say, it don't fault her family. If
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: they knew she was living on the streets homeless, you
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily report a missing. It happens more and I
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: have so many goosebumps, more than people realize, especially back
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: then when officers would just say she's an adult, Yeah,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: that's the right to be gone.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: Well, also, you kind of just like get a hold
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: of everybody so easily, you know. So.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: The resolution of the case brought a somber piece to
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: her surviving relatives in Arkansas and Alaska. While they requested
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: privacy from the media, the identification allowed for a final
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: symbolic act of justice.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: The Alaska State Troopers purchased a new grave marker for Robin.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: The stone that once read unknown now bears her name,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: her birth date, and the recognition that she was someone's daughter,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: someone's sister, and a human being who mattered.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Good job, troopers. First time, I'm going to tell you
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: you did something good.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's true.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: I do respect that. And somebody said it that they're
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: impressed they found out who she was. Guys, We're going
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: to start seeing a lot more of that with the
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: way genealogy is progressing. So I'm sure we will be
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: revisiting Robert Hansen. I can see in two years us
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: coming back and more people being.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you think I'm done with this case, I
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: am not going to.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Take a break from Alaska for a month or two.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: Me and Amy are going to be diving deep into
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: the missing people, how you grew here, because there is.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: We're going to start doing some missing people in Alaska.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: But we'll talk about that later. But the recovery mission
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: continued on April twenty sixth, nineteen eighty four, as the
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Huey helicopter bank toward the area surrounding Scenic Lake. For
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: the investigators, the site offered a visceral look at the
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: seasonal brutality of the Alaskan landscape and how it dictated
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: the final Indigenous Roberts indignities thank you Robert Hansen inflicted
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: upon his victims now.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: Teresa Watson was only twenty two years old when she
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: vanished from the streets of Anchorage on March twenty fifth,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three. For over a year, her family had
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: lived with the silence of her disappearance. When Hansen led
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: Sergeant Flock and the team to see Nick Lake, he
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: revealed a detail that really showed the cold blooded nature
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: of his crimes, as though we need more reasons, but
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: this one's not great, that's for sure.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do have to just say you are right,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: lady and Gray. I don't think we'll ever have an
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: unknown soldier at Arlington.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: Oh. I never thought about that, but.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: I may not with Yeah, they will come first.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: This is a side quest we're on here. But do
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: you think they'll go back to try to identify.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: I do think they will.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, I never thought.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: I do know that there's a couple of nonprofits that
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: are doing raising money to do that, because oh, I
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: have to pay for the exhuamation testing there, and you
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: have to get once you find out who it is,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: you have to get some permission I mean there's some
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: legal stuff around it, but yes, we will start seeing more.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, wow, never thought about that.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: That's so many goosebumps right now.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: Glad to know.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, because Teresa was taken in late March, the
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: Alaskan interior was still locked in a deep subarctic frieze. Yes,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: Hanson admitted to the team that after abducting and killing her,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: he found the grant was like granite, it's frozen, dude,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: Unable to dig a grave in the permafrost. Hanson didn't
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: seek a different location. He's simply abandoned her body exactly
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: where she had died, leaving her to the elements and
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: the winter snow. It wasn't until thirteen months later, with
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: Hanson himself pointing at the thawing brush, that Teresa was
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: finally found.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: By leaving her above ground in a remote area during
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: the spring thall, he relied on the vastness of the
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: wilderness hide his tracks. Standing at Scenic Lake, the investigators
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: saw the reality of Teresa's final moments, a young woman
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: taking from the city and discarded in a place where
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: the very earth refused to take her in as well
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: as its spring. So wildlife is going to be coming
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: out of hibernation. I know it's very dark to think about,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: but that is how Alaska is. Respect It's also how.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: The circle of life works, I.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: Mean respectfully, you know.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Respect. So her recovery brought the official count of identified
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: victims higher, but it also deepened the heavy atmosphere of
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: the mission. Each X on the map was no longer coordinate.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: It was a person like Teresa whose life had been
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: interrupted by a man who saw her only as a
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: problem to be discarded.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: Now on April twenty ninth, nineteen eighty four, so this
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: is all. I don't know if you guys have been
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: keeping track of the dates, but we're like in about
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: seven days since they've started to recover the bodies, and
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: each day they're getting they're getting some. The recovery mission
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: returned to the familiar, silty banks of the Nick River.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: For the investigators. The search for twenty year old Tamara
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: Tammy Peterson represented the closing of a circle and the
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: confrontation of a community's simmering resentment.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Side question, you keep calling it the Nick River, And
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: when I asked my friend from Kennedy, he said it
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: was the Kanick River.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: Oh really, you know which one is, right, Oh, I
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: don't know. I just pronounced nick like you know this Tony.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: It was the kinic because it's a Canadian. Well, no
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: it's not. It's not Alaska's.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say Indian, indigenous. It's there's a
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: reason behind it.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: Oh no, And you're just now telling me on the
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: last episode.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Because I talked to them today, or I slaughtered names
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: on Midday Missing and she heard my slaughtering of stuff
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: because we covered Canada today.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: Oh well, in fairness, I thought it was like, you know,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: the New York Knicks.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she told me to think of and I thought
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: it was funny Kaniki from Greece. She goes, think of Kaniki.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, that makes sense.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: But all right, maybe you saw something different.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: No, no, that was just my own interpretation. I thought
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: it was okay.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: I would have thought it would have been Knicks too.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Well, you know what, I apologize to the
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: good people of Alaska. To everybody else, meaning the investigators
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: from this case.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: I don't care, but everybody has their own pronunciations. Where
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: I live, you've got more people waxa hatchie, waxa hatchie,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: it's all. It's all good.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: We're all talking about the same place. It's fine now.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: Tammy had been missing for over a year, another name
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: on the long list of young women who had vanished
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: into the anchorage night. It wasn't until Robert Hansen sat
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: in the Huey helicopter, tracing the terrain with a cold
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: practice finger, that her location was finally revealed. You know what,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: I hate the fact he's getting off on this and
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: flying I Nancy helicopter. I know that just hit me.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: And I've already read all this and that just hit me.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: He's getting a kick out of it.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know. Now her body was discovered just
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: one point five miles from the old Kinnick Bridge, in
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: a landscape as vast as Alaska. She had been dis
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: scuarded in a place that thousands of people drove past
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: every week, a testament Hansen's ability to hide his problems
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: in plain sight.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: He got lucky.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: The recovery of Tammy Petterson brought a different kind of
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: tension to the case. While the investigators felt a grim
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: sense of professional accomplishment, Tammy's family was grappling with a
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: complex bundle of grief and anger. Her stepfather became the
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: voice for many an Anchorage who felt the system had
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: failed its most vulnerable citizens. He had appointed public fury
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: directed at the police. I'm right there with you, sir.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: To the Petterson family, Robert Hansen wasn't a ghost. He
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: was a man with a prior record in a note
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: own tail number, who they believe should have been stopped
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: years before Tammy ever crossed his path. And they are
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: not wrong.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: Remember hers, She's the one where her family moved to
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: Alaska to look for her, to look for her because
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: the police were dicking them around. And that's crazy.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Do you know how to say this word?
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, Lady and Gray taught me. It's apple at you.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's what she says, but whatever, it is,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: the apple Appalasia, but whatever, it's fine. O.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: You could also say Appalachian. I don't think anybody will
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: get on to you except.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: For Oh, really, have you met Lady and Gray?
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: She will, Lady Gray, but she lives up there.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: I'm just kidding. No, she talked that way, and I
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: do remember every time, because she was like, remember apple atch,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: like throwing an apple at you.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: It's like a Chefhalayah is not atcha falaiah. It's a chefalayah.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: What does even that mean? Okaja, Now you're just making
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: up words.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: If Buffy was here, she would have my back and
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: she would know. And even Polly, there's the Eshephealayah river.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, all right now? Standing at the recovery site,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: the investigators had to face the reality that for families
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: like the Petersons, justice felt like an afterthought. The four
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: hundred and sixty one years plus life sentence didn't bring
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: Tammy back, and it didn't erase the years of wondering
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: where she was.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: Can I do that shit? People? The discovery of Tammy
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: Patterson proved that Hansen's map was a reliable guide to
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: his atrocities, but it also highlighted the permanent scar he
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: had left on the families of Anchorage, a scar made
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: deeper by the belief that their daughters might still be
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: alive if the butcher Baker had been caught just one
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: victim sooner.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: Or be in prison where he was supposed to be.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: Did you in your church? Did any cops get fired?
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: Did any psychiatry psychologists psychiatrists that testified for him lose
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: their license? Was anyone held accountable for their failures.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: Anyone, No, nobody, nobody, none. The only person held accountable
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: for anything was Robert Hanson.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, did John lose his business? Did people stop
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: doing business with them? Did he lose all of his
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: insurance business? I know No.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: As far as I know, nothing came of anything because
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: of course, because I mean, they didn't want to talk
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: about it. But we'll get to that in our closing,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: in our closing thoughts, I'll tell you that now. The
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: recovery of Angela Lynn Veterin on April twenty ninth, nineteen
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: eighty four, brought the mission to a small, unnamed lake
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: near the larger Figure eight Lake. For the investigators, Angela's
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: story was a quintessential example of how the Butcher Baker
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: exploited the vulnerabilities of the Anchorage streets and the heartbreaking
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: reality of those left behind. Angela's story makes me so sick,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: I know, and I'm sorry.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: I have a little small fly. Angela was twenty four
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: years old when she was last seen on Fourth Avenue
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: in February nineteen eighty three. To her sister, Angela wasn't
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: just a missing person or statistic. She was a woman
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: called in the orbit of an addiction that dictated.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: Her life now. The tragedy of Angela's death was sharpened
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: by a broken promise. Her sister had begged her to
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: leave the streets of Alaska and returned to the safety
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: of the Seattle area. Angela had agreed, but with one
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: fatal condition quote one last trip to Anchorage, and she
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: never made it back to Washington.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: The recovery of angela, veteran at Figure eight Lake, provided
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: a grim relief for a family that had been suspended
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: in the unknown since her disappearance was finally reported in
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: May of nineteen eighty three. Her mother was overwhelmed by
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: a grief that was beyond consolation, yet voiced a painful
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: realism to the press. In an Associated Press story titled
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: daughter's death some Relief, no Surprise, she acknowledged the life
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: Angela led with a heavy heart, noting that her daughter
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: just couldn't find it in herself to go out and
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: get a thinking job.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: M It's probably not the greatest way to phrase that.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: I was like, I don't like that, but as a
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: mom who is dealing with that, I am going to
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: give her all of the grace and words are hard,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: especially when you've got all those feelings.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I don't like it because the mother's
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: comment about a thinking job. But uh, you know the
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: fact that the article was titled some relief but no surprise.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's when you have a loved one that
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: is in the throes of addiction. You are literally worried
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: about them dying all the time, all the time. And
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: as a matter of fact, sometimes you pray that they
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: just get put in jail, just to know that they're
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: somewhere safe, because it's horrible to think jail is a
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: safer place, but it is when they're in the throes
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: of addiction and you're worried about them being because listen,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: there's no there are hardly good success stories out there.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: You know. You either go to jail, you end up dead,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: or you are able to get clean and it's going
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: to take years to clean up the mess. It just
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: doesn't go away. And so I do give her grace
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: for that.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: I do. In society never seems to let them move on.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: No, no, not at all, not at all. And I
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: mean it doesn't sound like they have the greatest dynamic.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah it doesn't, but that's really quite frankly, none of
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: our business. So yeah, but you know, obviously her mom
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: is devastated this happened to her, and you know it's
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: not like she's being like, well, that's what she gets.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: It didn't seem like her mother was that kind of
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: no matter how much that article tried to make her
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: seem like that.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: But I think if we think of the time and
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: you're thinking about what the mother in my thought when
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: I heard that or read it the first time, I
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, she's thinking that she does something not
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: with her body, not dancing, not volleyball, not basketball, not
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: a sport, something in an office, something with numbers, something
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: like that is.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: How well if I remember recall because there's so many
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: victims and I don't remember all their details, but I
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: believe Angela also had a daughter. I want to say
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: she had a four year old daughter, Christy. Two of
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: these women have daughters. Who of the believe Angela is
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: one of them. Yeah, I believe it was her had
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: one of them.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, I was thinking she was Okay.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: I think Okay, Again, there's so many of them that
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: unfortunately i've kind of you know, I've been deep in
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: all of this that trying to keep all the facts
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: about each individual person has been the factors to many.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, it's so sad. It's so sad. But anyway,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: as to go on now? Angela's sister was a no
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: nonsense realist who refused to be intimidated by the investigators
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: or the stigma surrounding the case. She had seen the
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: drugs drive Angela to the avenue and lived with the
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: helplessness of watching someone she loved slide into a world
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: controlled by predators like Hanson.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: Her discovery closed one more file in the trooper's cabinet,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: but it left a permanent empty chair at a table
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: in Seattle, a reminder that the butcher Baker didn't just
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: kill women. He severed the threads of families who had
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: never stopped hope for a different kind of ending.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: Now, Hanson led the Huey helicopter to a desolate area
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: south of the former kinnik Arm Bridge. There next to
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: a stark, gray gravel pit. Oh, another one what he
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: pointed to the earth. Unlike the victims he abandoned in
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: the frozen bush, the women had been buried or the woman.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, the woman had been buried. On May ninth,
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four. Were you gonna say that's you? I'm sorry,
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: I'm just so eager, that's okay.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: On May ninth, nineteen eighty four, the recovery mission reached
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: a somber milestone with the discovery of Lisa Fattrell at
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: forty one years old. Lisa was older than many of
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: the Avenue girls Hansen targeted, and her disappearance had remained
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: a cold, agonizing mystery for nearly four years now.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: She had been missing since September sixth, nineteen eighty four.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: Years Hanson had met Lisa the nightclub where she worked,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: and he used his Meek Baker persona to build a
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: momentary bridge of trust, a facade that vanished the moment
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: she was inside his vehicle.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: The recovery of Lisa Patrell was a visceral victory for
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: the Alaska State Troopers. It proved that Hanson's memory, though
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: chillingly clinical, was accurate, even for crimes committed years prior.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: For Lisa's colleagues and friends the nightclub, the news brought
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: a definitive, if heartbreaking into what if.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: Now. Delynne Sugart renee Frey, was only twenty two years
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: old when she vanished from the Anchor streets. In March
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three, during his rambling confession, Hansen spoke of
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: her with a chilling predatory detachment, as he did with everybody. Really,
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: but to him, she wasn't a young woman from the
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: islands of Hawaii. She was simply number nine on his
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: aviation map, according that tucked inside, go ahead and say it, Terry.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: I hate him, I mean so much. I try so
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: hard to not hate. I do, It's fine, but sometimes
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: I hate him. I truly hate him, and I hope
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: everything bad happened to him in the end.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: So he described a high stakes winter flight landing his
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: Piper super cub on skis and the final months of
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: the Alaskan winter. Sounds like he's bragging to anybody else
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: or just.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: Me, Yes, I agree, yeah.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: He admitted he hadn't even bothered to bury her. He
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: had left her on a remote sandbar, treating her with
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: the same lack of regard he showed for the game
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: He hunted.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: In the mountains, and for two years, Delenn remained exactly
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: where Hanson had discarded her, and it wasn't until August twentieth,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five. This is a whole year after they
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: looked for the women, and Hanson had been since a
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: year that a local pilot practicing landings and testing new
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: tundra tires spotted something on a Nitkannik River sandbar.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: If any pilots happened to see this in Alaska and
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: you want to let us get together search missions, I
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: think there's a lot of area of Alaska that needs
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: to be so much.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: So much, so much. We'll get into that, for sure.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: I know, But I'm just saying it needs to be
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: done because she had not been reported missing immediately, and
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: because the connection to Hanson's map hadn't fully solidified, hadn't
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: been fully solidified for this specific x. She was buried
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: in an Anchorage cemetery as a Jane Doe, which pisces.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: Me off mean too, because you're like, what you find
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: a dead woman in the in anywhere in the wilderness
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: you first thought should be Robert fucking hansis I don't
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: understand how this even happened.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: Any bone you find in Alaska anywhere, you should immediately
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: think it needs to be checked against Robert Hanson's victims
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: and missing women.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: This really pisses me off because it's like they learn nothing.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: Oh we know that from that documentary I watched. Yeah,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: it seemed she was destined to be another forgotten statistic
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: of the avenue. God, I hate these people, not the rules.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: I hate Alaska cause it's just another disservice. It is women.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: I'm not even going to bother looking into who this
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: person could possibly be. I can't be bothered.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: And it's exactly they're inconsequential there. Oh that's not a
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: bother like the spider you just killed. They have that
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: much care about these women, not at all.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: And that's it and quite frankly, and that's proof of that.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, listen, this is a remote location. You find
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: a dead body and a remote location. That person didn't
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: just wonder there. You literally had to fly to where
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: that person is, which then if that person is dead
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: there and there's no plane around, then how did they
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: get there? But nobody wanted to be bothered asking any
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: fucking question.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: Could they check to see if there's any remote cabins?
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: Check those cabins see if there had been. Yeah, they didn't.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: They didn't make a flying.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: F No, they didn't. Now, the breakthrough didn't come until
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine. Four years after her discovery and five
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: years after hanson sentencing, an Alaska state trooper meticulously reviewing
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: case files recognized a piece of jewelry and a crime
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: scene photo. Excuse me, it was a smoking gun that
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: linked the Jane Doe from the sandbar to the missing
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: reports for de Lann Frey four years. It took somebody
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: to fucking look in a file. Wow. I mean, I'm
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: glad he did, But also, what again, how was Robert
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: Hansen knowing he had so many victims that were not
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: accounted for exactly.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing that's so hard. Wow, you do
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: not find it and you identify it as a female,
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: you would think their first thought would be like, oh shit,
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: we found a one of Hanson's victims. That would be
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: my first thought.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: And it's literally at the Kinnick River where there's like
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: eight other buried women.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: It's not like, oh, we know many unidentified Yes, yeah
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Max, just so bad.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: Robert Hanson should be thankful he never sat face to
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: face with Lama.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: That's true because.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: Wama, I have to tell you, I don't want to
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: know what would come out of Lama if he was
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: sitting in front of her I think it would be something.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: We would never probably it might take as in fashion.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: The second were they not even curious? That's how do
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: you just bury up under Jane Doe when you've got
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: a list of unknown women?
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable, unbelievable, and you had a piece of jewelry.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: Didn't even have to do DNA, you just had to
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: look at the crime scene photos. Go oh, that matches this. Okay, yeah, okay,
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: go ahead, I'll just stop the conclusion. I'm sorry. The
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: conclusion of Dylan's story is one of the few moments
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: of grace, and a narrative defined by darkness. Her family
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: had spent years in the warmth of a Kalua Kona, Hawaii,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: waiting for news that felt further and father away with
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: every Alaskan winter.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: Now, when the identification was finally confirmed, her family made
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: sure that the butcher baker would not have the final
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: say in her story. Her remains were cremated and returned
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: to the Hawaiian Islands. She was removed from the cold,
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: dark silt of the Kinik River to the sun drenched
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: shores she once caught home, finally finding the peace that
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: Robert Hanson had tried so hard to steal now. Next
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: is Roxanne Eastland was twenty four years old when she
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: disappeared on June twenty eighth, nineteen eighty In the early
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: years of Hanson's spree, she was a name that haunted
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: the avenue, a woman who simply stepped out of her
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: life and into the void.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: During his confession, Hanson admitted to her murder. He provided details,
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: He gave a general air, and he sat in the
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: Huey helicopter looking down at the green canopy of the forest.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: But despite the maps and the aerial searches, the earth
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: remains closed. No remains, no clothing, and no forensic trace
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: of rock sand have ever been recovered. She remains a
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: permanent X on the map. A confession without a conclusion
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: that's heartbreaking, doesn't mean that she won't be found.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: There's true. There is still that that's true now. Perhaps
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: the most chilling of the unrecovered victims is twenty four
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: year old Andrea Mona Altery, known to her friends as Fish.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: She was less seen on December second in nineteen eighty one,
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: boarding a taxi for the Bona Face Mall, but she
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: never arrived.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: When investigators finally breached Hanson's home, they found the smoking
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: gun of her disappearance. Hidden among Hanson's possessions was a
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: fish shaped necklace. It was a trophy of a life
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: he had stolen and a direct link to a woman
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: he claimed he had never met.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: Now. Hanson's account of Andrea's vital moments was a descent
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: into pure malice. He used a gun to force her
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: into his vehicle, blindfolding and handcuffing her before driving to
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: a service road off of the Palmer Highway. He claimed
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: that after he assaulted her, Andrea fought back. In response,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: he executed her with a twenty two Browning automatic pistol,
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: and in a calculated move to ensure she was never found,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: Hanson didn't use a shallow grave. He waited a duffel
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: bag with heavy river gravel, tied it to Andrea, and
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: threw her off the nick Arm Bridge into the churning,
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: silt laden waters below an asshole.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: I don't like count Because of the immense title pull
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: in the thick opaque silt of the kinik Arm, recovery
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: was impossible. Divers and sonar sweeps yielded nothing. Andrea fish
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: all terry remains lost to the currents, her memory preserved
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: only by the silver necklace found in a killer's attic
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: and the testimony of the man who threw her away.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: Now, for the families of rock Sand and Andrea, the
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: end of the Hanson case brought a different kind of sentence,
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: a lifetime of the never found. Their stories remind us
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: that even with a full confession, a serial killer can
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: still keep the ultimate secret. Oh I guess what this
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: is my face? The entire time I was writing all this, Oh, I.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: Just reading it and going through it, I was like,
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: I was like, Malama's got to be raging.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now you guys know why I went and bought
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: about a vodka for all this and she.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: Finished it in a month. Guys.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, I can sound like I'm drinking all the time.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: That's not true.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: But four shows a week, yeah, okay, researching writing, Yeah.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: Girl, Okay, that's true.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: That's what you deserve it. You deserve it, Okay. As
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: a legal desk settled in the forensic team's pack to
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: their gear, a profound and unsettling silence fell over Anchorage.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: The butcher Baker was behind bars, but the city seemed
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: to be looking away. It was this collected amnesia that
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: began to weigh on the conscience of a local hairstylist
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: named Jan Martin.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: Now, Jane didn't know the victims. She wasn't part of
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: the avenue or the nightlife scene. She was a happily
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: married woman who realized that the community's reaction to the
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: seventeen murders was fundamentally broken. While the city had erupted
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: in grief over other local tragedies, the reaction to Hanson's
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: victims was muted, as if their fringe lifestyles made their
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: violent ends an expected occupational hazard. That's right, guys, nobody
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: gave us shit.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: Is bullshit.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: After finding out the truth of everything that happened, literally
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: nobody cared.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to just say to everybody in that
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: community that felt that way, shame on you. Not shame
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: on you, Jans, but the rest of them, shame on you.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: Chan's on our good list of like five people succeed.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: Isn't a ship bag in the story? Yeah, seventeen people died,
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: and other than the morbid aspects of it, nobody really cares.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: She thought it could have been me, It could have
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: been you, It could have been a bank full of people.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: Now, Bugged by her own conscience, Martin decided to do
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: what the institutions had not. She organized a memorial. Working
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: with the police, she reached out to the families of
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: the identified victims. She found pair and still reeling from
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: grisly media reports that focused more on their daughter's professions
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: than on their humanity.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: Pam, I think we that's the only way I'm going
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: to Alaska is far and as woopen trip race them out,
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: I ask, I'm going to raise them.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: Hell oh.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: Through these conversations, Martin began to see the human dimension
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: of the tragedy, the little things that made them people,
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: not just excess on a map. She realized that for
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: many of these women, this service would be the only
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: funeral they would ever have.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: Now. Led by arch Bishop Francis Hurley and local reverence,
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: the memorial included Psalm readings and a message of passion.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: The service was held for both those women who have
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: been found and for those who have not been found.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: I'd better find out at the end of this Jan
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: got a key to the city.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: She should have Okay, she should have ran the city.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: At least she should have ran it.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: Somebody that cared Jan Martin's.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: Initiative served as a mirror to the city. She challenged
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: the idea that some lives are less worthy of mourning
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: than others. By honoring the victims of Robert Hanson, she
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: forced Anchorage to acknowledge that these weren't just prostitutes or runaways.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: They were daughters and sisters whose last weeks on earth
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: were horrific and who deserved far more than to be forgotten.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: Quote. I don't really care if there are more than
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: five people who showed up, said Martin, if they're just
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: thinking about it. It's important in this city that you
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: care about people who die. End The memorial was a
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: small but vital victory for empathy over apathy. It ensured
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: that as the story of the Butcher Baker transitioned into history,
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: the focus remained where it belonged, on the humanity of
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: the women he tried to erase.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: As nearly two hundred people gathered in downtown Anchorage Park
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: for the memorial on June sixth, nineteen eighty four, the
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: distinction between the respectable public and the women of the
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: avenue began to dissolve into a shared sense of human grief.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: For many attendees. The service was deeply personal. Jeannie holl
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: A Bit and Dottie spoke to the thin line between
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: their lives and the lives of those on Robert Hansen's map.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: Just want to say hello to on top X. I haven't
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: seen you forever. Good sir, ye in a while. Hope
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: you're doing well. Congratulations on your member versary for six months.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: Hope we're doing well. Hope you're doing well. Good sir.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: Now quote I'm a woman, and so were they, said
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: Jenny Holibek, a woman, since there's volunteer who came to mourn.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: I know, women who dance sometimes we do things that
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: don't meet with the approval of others, but we do
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: what we have to do to get by there before
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: the grace of God go iye end quote. Then quote
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: we were sisters in a way, said a woman who
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: identified herself only as Dottie, a performer at a local
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: dancing establishment. This thing could have happened to any one
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: of us.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. It just infuriates me. I know people want
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: to cast all of this shame on these women, who
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: do you think's paying to go.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: And see them exactly?
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: And that's the part that just really bothers me.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: Archbishop Archbishop Francis Hurley address the gulf that society had
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: created between the victims and the rest of the community,
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: and as homily, he didn't just ask for prayer. He
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: demanded a shift in how the city viewed the dead.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: He pushed back against the stigma of their lifestyles, insisting
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: that compacts begins with the simple realization that they were
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: human beings. He even challenged the crowd to find a
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: path towards forgiveness, not just for the women, but eventually
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: for the man who had torn the community apart.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: People are better than I am, because I'm giving that.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: Let me tell you what, Biship.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go to confession on Sunday, and
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: I know it is Easter Sunday, but I'm not there.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm not not a good Catholic. I can't
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: that path to forgiveness. Robert Hanson.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: No, I'm fine. I'm fine with it, fine with how
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: I feel about him now. After the service, family members
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: hugged friends and each other and thank the many strangers
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: who joined them. Quote. I don't know why so many
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: people showed up, said Dave Moorehead, a brother in law
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: of Sue Luna. I guess they all wanted to show
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: their care and it makes you feel good, real good.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: While the Park Service offered a public goodbye, the reality
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: of the Anchorage Municipal Cemetery remained a mess of administration failures.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: No surprise, because of course, prized.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: Friends like Laura Tripp and do ring Cox faced a
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: grueling battle just to find where their friend Paula Golding
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: was laid to rest. Even after identification, Paula was still
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: listed in city records as unidentified. When a marker was
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: finally placed, her name was spelled incorrectly, like.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: You fucking kidding me. She was one of the original thought.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: For and when you noticed it, why didn't you fix it? Sorry?
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: Making the grave impossible to find during a blind April snowstorm.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: Like Delenn Frey, Paula had roots in Hawaii. She had
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: only been in Alaska for three weeks and had planned
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: to return home the very day she would murdered. Remember,
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: she wanted to get the hell out of Alaska, guys,
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: her friends wished to scatter her ashes at sea, was
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: blocked by red tape regarding potential relatives who didn't exist.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you, man, Just when you think Alaska, maybe we
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: can change Nope, nope.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: No, guys, it's twenty and it's April Fool's Day, but
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: it is no April Fools that Alaska has not changed.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: You believe they have learned from their mistakes, April fools
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: on you boilers.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: They haven't trusted those on that now, oh thank you.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: I found this op ed because I literally read every
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: newspaper article in Anchorage, Alaska from the years of nineteen
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: seventy to nineteen.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: Yead log into our newspaper account and I'm.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: Like, does it tell you? Does I didn't know that
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: says and.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm trying to just find the ones I've read.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, no, it's okay because you just put
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: in a keyword. But yeah, oh I will read, you
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: will read me.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: I literally read everything, and like four hundred pages of
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: research for this story. Now good. So I found this
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: op ed in the newspaper from Mary pat Haberyl who's
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: going on our good happerly maybe oh maybe on June twelfth,
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four, she goes on our good people list
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: or my good people list, by the way, and I
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: wanted to read to show more of the members of
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: the community and their viewpoint about how things are being handled.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: And I say this because if you go reading all
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: of the newspaper articles, there is a lot of bias,
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of covering asses. And that's what made researching
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: very difficult, was actually getting to the truth because of
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: things that would be left out if you will, or
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: most of.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: The reporters for the newspaper.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: Were males, exactly.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, because when I was looking, I was like, really, yes,
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: can I find one that a woman wrote?
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there wasn't very many. I'll tell you that, I
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: know I read them all now. So I found this
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: one and I just wanted to read it in its
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: entirety because it just shows what a person from the community,
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: a woman specifically at that time, who had went to
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: this event, this memorial, felt about it. So this is
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: what she had to say, and quite frankly, I appreciate
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: the balls Mary pat has of writing the op ed
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: to the newspaper during the time. Good job, she said.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: I would like to comment on the memorial service of
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: Tamra Joy Peterson, Sue Luna, Paula Goulding, Sherry Morrow, Joanna Messina,
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: Angela veteran, Melia Larson, and for those who are lost
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: and not yet found, and on the daily news coverage
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: of the service by Larry Campbell and Greg Anderson, which
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: is where I got a lot of that information we
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: just read to you. Just by the way, the difference
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: in viewpoints here is interesting. She goes and says, I
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: hope that the families and close friends of these young
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: women received the emotional support they needed. I was glad
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: to see that so many people came to remember the
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: personhood of each of the victims. And I am thankful
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: to the individual that's you, Jan Well, okay, maybe this
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: person not you, but probably from the audience who led
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: us in speaking the victims' names out loud, and to
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: the woman who sang a song of peace and love
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: to close. I am at the same time very angry
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: at Archbishop Hurley's insensitive and inappropriate remarks during the service.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: You see, guys, two very different viewpoints of this way.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: Telling us that if we hadn't had good families and
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: good friends, we might have walked the path of sin
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: like these young ladies was a slap in the face
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: to the friends and families of the women who are
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: brutally murdered, murdered not because of what they did for
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: a living, but because they trusted a man who was
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: not safe, the clergyman on the stage, like the man
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 2: who wrote the news article in which he categorized some
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: of the women in the audience as quote who take
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: their clothes off for twenty dollars end. Quote. Yes, he
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: wrote that, because I fucking read it. Cannot understand what
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: it means to all all women to live daily with
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: the threat of violence to their person solely because of
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: their gender. What we choose to do for a living,
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: or what circumstances force us to do for a living,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: has nothing to do with it. So long as men
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: such as Robert Hansen or Archbishop Hurley, or the reporters
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: for the Daily News separate women into good girls and
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: bad girls, with the implication that bad girls only get
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: what they deserve, we will all live with this constant
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 2: fear because the only thing more terrifying than the threat
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: to ourselves is a horror of having it happened to
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: our sisters or daughters, or mothers or friends. And my
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: heart and prayers go out to those who lost their
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: loved ones. Might drop for Mary is all I got
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: to say. A bravo, sister, bravo, And I'm so sorry, Mary,
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: guess why nothing's changed in forty two years. But you're right, you're.
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: Right, Archbishop. I hope that he was saying, well, it's
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: the Catholic diocese. They didn't do shit. Well, here's right,
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: Like let's get I'm like, wait, what am I talking
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: about your own shit?
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: Hurly?
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: No?
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: But what is frustrating, And her point exactly is we've
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: learned so much about hands and this is stuff Mary
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: didn't know yet that we know.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: Not yet. She didn't even know that.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: She didn't even know. She't even know most of this stuff,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: and she could see it plain as day. Right, But Hanson,
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: guess what he did. He separated people, women into madonna's
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: and whores, good girls, bad gourd girls too, And so
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: in society does that too. They're just giving people like
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: that the go ahead.
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: But to assume that a person who works as an
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: exotic dancer, a topless dancer, a new dancer didn't come
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: from a good family or half friends is total bullshit.
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: M And as an archbishop, you should be better than
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: to judge people like that.
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: So that's why I checked that. And Jesus isn't my thing.
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: But less time I checked, he was friends with the prostitutes.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: If I remember church camp very well in Sunday School.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: But that's just.
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: Remember that it was an archbishop. No, it was a
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: cardinal that told me when I want to get divorced
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: because of being beaten, his comment was, well, have you
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: thought about what you're doing that causes him to react
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: that way?
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 2: Gross?
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: So I should say I'm not surprised with the charchbishop.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't be, because he's part of the problem.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: I savage. No, And that's why for that particular section.
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: Mary Jan and Mary No, Jan and Mary, they're two different.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: You're on our list of amazing fucking people because you
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: did what the other people that should have been doing
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: didn't fucking bother to do. And good on you. There
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: are good people in Alaska, by the way, I know
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: we have shit a lot on Alaska. There are good
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: people who live there that will do the right things in.
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: Alaska are good women in Alaska are good? Yeah?
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: He did?
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: Hey did? If you ever want to hear that saga,
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: you know, let me know and I'll do a special
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: about it, because I have no problem telling you about
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: that story. But and I want everybody to stop and
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: think of what the times were like back then for
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: her to do an op ed back in what nineteen
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: eighty four, nineteen eighty five, nineteen eighty four. Guys, that
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: that tooks some That took some nads.
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: I just want to say, you know, I'll probably talk
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: about this later and closing, that's so far. Almost all
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: of the heroes in the story are women, but the
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: officer Baker, and I.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: Just change his last name so he's not part of
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: your Baker because every time I see Baker, I just
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: instantly go, oh shit ahead. But then I'm like, oh wait, no,
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: he's the good Baker.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: He's the good one. All right, Well, let's let's keep going.
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: We're almost almost to the point of.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: While the legal system was meticulously catalong the X marks
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: in the wilderness, a different kind of wreckage was being
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: unearthed inside the family home on Old Arbor Road. For
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: Darla Hanson, the meet Baker's wife, the horror didn't arrive
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: all at once in a courtroom. It arrived in the
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: form of a small tangible objects found in the corners
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: of her own life. The moment the facade truly crumbled
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: for Darla was at four ten pm on April twenty fifth,
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, when Sergeant Glenn Flothy arrived at the house.
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: In an encounter that must have been thick with unspoken tension,
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: Darla handed over the final proof that her husband was
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: a stranger. Darla knew these weren't hers. In the silence
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: of her Muldune home. She had to face the fact
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: that these were trophies, items taken from women who would
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: never go home. They were Bob's women and they were dead.
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: Did I not write that they're rings? Am I not
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: seeing the word? Okay? Well, I apologize. What she found
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: were two or three rings and a gold nugget belonging
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: they were not hers. My apologies for not writing.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: The fallout for the handsome children was immediate and cruel. Oh,
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: and shame on anyone for shaming the children. That just
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: pisses me off to They became the innocent casualties of
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: their father's infamy. At school, they faced r Lent was bullying,
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: branded by a surname that had become synonymous with the monster.
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: They weren't just losing a father to prison. They were
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: losing their safety, their privacy, and guys, their childhood. They
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: were children. Darla The woman who had once leaned on
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: her faith to save her husband from his vices, finally
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: reached her breaking point. The transition from loyal wife to
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: survivor was swift. She officially severed her ties to the
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: man she had lived with for over twenty years. The bakery,
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: the center of their lives and the source of his
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: community standing, was closed forever. The house in Muldoon was sold.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: Seeking a life where her children wouldn't be defined by
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: the butcher baker, Darla moved the family to Arkansas. In
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: the Hills of Arkansas, closer to her own family, Darla
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: sought the semblance of peace that Anchorage could no longer provide.
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: She left behind the silt of the Kanik River and
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: the dark secrets of the Attic, taking her children into
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: a quiet anonymity. Robert Hansen was left alone in his cell,
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: a man who had not only destroyed seventeen other families
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: that had effectively erased his own.
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what, my heart goes out to Darla
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: and the kids.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: It really it does. I mean, And.
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: You know, for Darla to dedicate twenty years of her life,
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: her life she gave to that fucking piece and guys.
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: He was a manipulator. He manipulated her too. Absolutely, she
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: took her vows serious, got some arson things, but they
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: let him.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I can't blame her for literally.
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: I do not blame her for anything.
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: And her poor children, and because of all of ants
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: and of Alaska's fuck ups, why wouldn't she believe his bullshit?
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: Exactly?
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: It all added up? You know, Like my heart goes
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: out to Darling and the kids, and I just feel
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: awful because they have to.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: Live treating them well. And I hope they changed their names.
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: They're very they're they were fairly easy ish to find.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: But respectfully, I didn't care to mention their names.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: They didn't change their names.
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say you don't want to. I
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: just want to say that I did not want to
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: put their names anywhere. I did not want to put
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: their pictures anywhere, because they deserve the privacy. They had
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 2: no choice of the guys.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: They are victims, just like all of the women.
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: But they've chosen to remain in private. And I think,
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: you know, in the day and age where it is
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: easy to find people you should respect, they're wanting for privacy.
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: So that's why I have made sure to never say
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: their names or show their pictures or because they were
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: very young when this happened.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: That I hope they are. I hope they have good life.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 2: I listen, Darla sounds like an amazing mother. She's doing
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: what all she had to do. So I am sure
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: that it seems like the children grow up.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: Wow, so well, Jess. So you know, darlin, children, if
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: you ever come across this, we are on your side.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: That's right, we are. But you know, in situations like this,
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 2: society is quick then to attack the families.
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: How could you not know that is wrong?
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: And such? And sometimes listen, sometimes they do know, but
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: more often than not, families they don't know right far
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: often than not, though they do not know. Now, the
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: final chapter of Robert Hansen's life was defined not by
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: the vast open skies he once commanded, but by the
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: shrinking walls of a cell and the slow clinical decline
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: of his own body.
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: Yay, And I'm like, I shouldn't celebrate that, but I'm
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: going to.
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 2: It's fine. Following his sentencing, Hansen was initially sent far
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 2: from from the Alaska tundra to the US penitentiary in Louisbourg, Pennsylvania. However,
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 2: by nineteen eighty eight, he was returned to the state
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: where his crimes had been committed to serve out his
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 2: life sins at the Spring Creek Correctional Center in Seaward
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 2: of all places, of all places, of all places, which
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: is it surprised me when that was, Like, I didn't
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: know they had a prison there because it's a very small,
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: nice community.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: It's not a price, isn't it on the other end
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: from where? And yeah, the girl went to go do
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: the laundry and it's on the other end but barely well,
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 1: but you could walk. It's five minutes, right.
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, Yeah. What I'm saying is it's too
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: beautiful of an area it is to have a prison
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 2: with this fuck face in it. I guess that's what
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 2: I'm saying.
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 1: But the karma that he is locked in there and
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: he can enjoy the outdoors kind of good.
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 1: There was a profound, dark irony in his placement at
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: Spring Creek, the high security facility set just miles away
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: from the X marks in Resurrection Bay, the burial sites
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: he had hinted at but refused to ever fully explain.
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: He was forced to spend decades staring out of the
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: very wilderness he had used as hunting grounds. A predator
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: now permanently held in a cage of concrete and steel.
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: And how right I bet prisons so looks in Alaska.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 2: To be quite honest with you, I hear it sucks
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: here in the wintertime and it's not even as cold there.
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: Well in Texas they don't have ac in our prisons,
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: and it gets over one hundred, which.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: I'll be honest is whatever. I'm not gonna voice my
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 2: opinions right now now, it's not the time, Lama.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: I normally didn't, but I think Robert Hansen deserves tonight.
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a shitback now. By May twenty fourteen, the
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 2: man who had prided himself on his physical stamina and
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 2: his ability to navigate the brutal Alaskan elements, began to
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: wather as seventy five years old. Plagued by lingering medical conditions,
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 2: the butcher Baker was moved from the prison to the
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 2: Anchorage Correctional Complex and eventually to the Alaska Regional Hospital.
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: On August twenty one, twenty fourteen, Robert Hansen died of
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: natural causes. There was no final hunt, no dramatic standoff,
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: in no grand gesture of repentance. He died in the
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: sterile hospital bed, the silence of the Kinik River replaced
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: by the rhythmic plum of medical monitors.
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 2: Now, with his death, many feared that the locations of
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 2: his unrecovered victims would be lost forever. Yet the true
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: legacy of the case isn't found in the secrets he
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 2: took to the grave, but in the light that was
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 2: shown upon them while he was alive.
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: Upon hearing the news of Hanson's passing, Fothy offered a
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: final grounding perspective on the man he had hunted for
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: so long. On this day, we should only remember his
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: many victims in all of their families, and my heart
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: goes out to all of them. As far as Hansen
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: is concerned, the world is better without him.
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, agreed Lani. He was seventy five, so he was
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 2: what was that forty years? No, thirty thirty years? Thirty
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 2: ish years he had been in prison before he died, and.
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: It had been longer for Alaska would have done their job.
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 2: Now a Hanson's story ended in the shadows of a hospital.
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 2: Ward for the story of his victims, the women who
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 2: were finaled and the ones who still wait in the
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 2: silt continues to be told by those who believe like
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 2: us that every life, no matter how marginalized, is worth seeking.
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 2: And that is the conclusion of our series of Robert Hanson.
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: But there will be many of epilogues, I think.
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 2: I am sure. I feel like there will.
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: Be, and I think there will be a new alask
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: A Missing.
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 2: Person series, probably probably. How about you do your closings first,
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 2: since you did a better job than I did it
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 2: writing about.
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: Okay Amy, I agree with you, guys. I have to
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: say this for it. I get into my closing thoughts
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: because it's just hit me. His kids were victims too.
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: They had to mourn so much when their dad went
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: to prison. But I think we also need to remember
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: that when he died, they still lost a parent, or
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 1: their idea of what a parent, a dad, their safety,
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: So I do. I just can't imagine how hard that
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: all had to have been for his wife and the kids.
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: Now, I honestly do not know what else I can
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 1: say that I haven't already said. During this marathon into
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: Alaska and Robert Hanson. Everything we have learned about Robert
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: Hanson and how Alaska law enforcement handled things just pisses
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: me off. I mean, guys, let's be real, Okay, Hanson
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: wasn't a genius. Okay, he was. He was a predator
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 1: who figured out how to take advantagement or take advantagement,
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 1: take advantage of society's bas I mean, think about it.
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: Alaska is the one who created that environment. They nourished
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: it and kept telling him you're a respectable businessman. And
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: they kept saying out, wow, oh, he couldn't have He
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: has a stutter, he has a baker, he has a wife,
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: he has children, he goes to church. He couldn't possible.
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: They it's not that he was smart, guys, because he wasn't.
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 2: Here's average, nothing remarkable. That's for the imn sure.
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think I've said it. For Alaska law
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: enforcement is just as accountable as Robert Hansen.
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: By them choosing to believe Hanson over women, especially when
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: a woman came to them with receipts and they were
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: able to verify the car, the everything, the they didn't
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: have anything, They didn't care you. Using to believe him
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: over the women, it allowed him to kidnap and kill
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: so many more.
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: M okay.
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: And the fact that when they found remains, They didn't
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: even stop to think, why don't we check Robert Hansen?
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: You know, we've I've seen the newspapers that Lama's looked at.
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: How did they not say, oh my god, a body,
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: we should go check Hanson's list.
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: I know, it's crazy.
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: Newspapers and newspapers were delivered to everybody's doors back then.
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 1: You didn't even have to go look for it people.
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: That's what I don't understand. Yeah, so, I mean they
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: just how did they not put the puzzles together? And
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: what scares me? How many more do we not know?
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 2: What that?
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, how many unhoused maybe are actually missing? Because we
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: learned watching the Alaska Women documentary another person learned from
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: Robert Hansen.
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 2: They didn't say it, but we know that they didn't.
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 2: We know it to be true.
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 1: Who else learned from him? And who else is praying
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 1: on Alaska? So that's what scares me. Robert Hanson is
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: an evil piece of shit, but the fact that he
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 1: was able to do this for as long as he did,
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: anyone who hears the story should be angry, And if
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 1: you've watched the documentary about him, you should be pissed
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 1: that they didn't tell the whole story because when Lama
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: wanted to do this, I'm like, I know that story too.
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: We can do that in two episodes. We're good.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: And I was like, not a contrary. Just trust me
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 2: on this doesn't work for a network.
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: We're not getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 1: do this research.
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 2: I wish could you mention billable hours would be insane.
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 1: They did a documentary and they excuse my French right here,
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 1: they fucked over the victims just as much because they
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 1: didn't even talk about it. They swept it under the rock.
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: Amy what you found another case? There's another predator in
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 1: Alaska who.
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 2: Took oh girl. There's so much shit to Alaska. There's
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 2: so much more.
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, could we set up a meeting when I come
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 1: back from medical leave for an Alaska meeting? Maybe we
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 1: need to go down how But I'm gonna say I
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: hate Alaska except for the couple of good police officers,
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 1: Baker Lothy, I forget the lady's.
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 2: Name, dogs fen.
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: All of the women in Alaska. I love all of
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: the women in Alaska, and you should be very careful.
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: I'm done with Alaska. It's no longer on my bucket
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: list unless we are going there to do an expose.
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 2: In kick Ass, which I would be more than happy
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 2: to do. And yes, this is Lady to think this,
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 2: to think this started out as one episode because that's
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 2: exactly what I wrote the episode based on Lady and
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 2: Gray's episode. I was like, Nope, that's not going to be.
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 1: Two, because I have watched the documentary and that's why
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 1: when you kept saying, Oh, it's gonna be more, I
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: was like, why could it be moored? I'm like, is
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 1: she gonna ramble on and on or.
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: What I mean? Yes?
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 1: And again when you find out the kept everything from us, Yeah,
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: and I'm sorry who, whichever network, whichever documentary people put
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: that together. Shame on them, Shame on you. And I
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 1: think the families should get together and sue them because
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: to me, they lied by being deceitful and not telling
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 1: the whole story.
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 2: I agree. I agree. There was one, then two, then
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 2: three Are you seeing me? The Milania Birthday song? Amy?
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 2: And then there was twelve. Actually, just let everybody know,
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 2: I did get the story finished by the end of
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 2: the month, like I promised, and I was actually one
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 2: episode shorter than when I quoted Terry, I probably needed to.
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: Sorry to tell you you did not make it by
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 1: the end of the month, because today is ma'am, it's
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 1: not March.
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 2: And still wrote three episodes.
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 1: Ma'am, I said, as long as we got it done
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: before I went out on medical leaves, so that is
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 1: you did it perfect.
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 2: No, Amy, can you do me a favorite? Can you
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 2: bring up the map that you made for me for
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: my closing? So, as Harry said, I came to her.
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 2: I was like, listen, girl, like there is so much
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 2: more to this story. I am so angry reading what
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 2: I'm reading. We have to tell this whole story because
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 2: if we don't, then we are no better than the investigators,
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 2: than the parole officers, than in the public, the public,
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: if we don't go and tell all of these women's
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 2: stories and listen, I literally, as I said, read every
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: single newspaper dot com article about all of this.
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 1: I well, we got our money's worth for our all
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 1: subscriptions their and just miskin.
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 2: I read everything on the internet. I had over four
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 2: hundred pages of research that I used to put these
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 2: last twelve episodes together. And it still breaks my heart
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 2: that for so many of the victims that we were
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 2: able to cover. There is barely anything about them as
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: people anywhere. And it was heartbreaking those three days writing
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 2: about all of them, to know that their mere existence
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 2: was boiled down to one or two sentences, because that's it,
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: that's all I had to work with, and then I
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 2: had to make it more than that, and it's so sad.
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 2: And then I want everybody to look at this map
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 2: Amy went through. She marked to the best we could,
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 2: Like you, guys, oh my god. The research in doing
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 2: this show was a nightmare. Trying to figure out what
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 2: was true, which was not true, it was biased, what
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 2: was not is fucking mess to navigate. And I'm sure
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 2: we've made some mistakes, and I'm sure some asshole is
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 2: going to be like, oh, well that date's wrong. Well
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 2: it's fine, all right. I'm still doing a better job
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 2: than fucking Alaska did in thirteen years. Because these women
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 2: that I don't even know who all were born and
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 2: died before I was born. I care more about their
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 2: legacy than anybody fucking did in those thirteen years. Alaska,
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 2: all right, when were you born nineteen eighty five? Yes, yes,
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five. I was born in nineteen.
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 1: Eighty So much older than you.
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 2: Don't need to tell everybody your business.
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 1: Terry, I'm old.
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 2: You could be my child, but tell yeah yeah, libs, yeah,
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 2: but now I tell my guys, thank you, But no,
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, look at this map. All of the bloom
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 2: names are women that we know that's them. We have
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 2: found their bodies, or we may not have found their bodies,
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 2: but we know that's where they are. Because Hanson, we
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 2: were able to determine who they were. We mean the investigators,
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 2: but we as well. All of those yellow ones are
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 2: bodies that have not been found. They don't know who
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 2: those people are. Look all of that yellow still on
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 2: Hansen's map. There is still I don't understand why for
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 2: forty years, over forty years, there is still so much
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 2: yellow on that map. Now, I will say this, Alaska
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 2: is not the easiest place to navigate to look for things.
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 1: It's not the terrain.
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 2: It is awful. All right, I watch alone, Thank you
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 2: very much. I love Yeah. Yeah? Is that a good?
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 1: Holy shit?
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Do I look good for forty? I
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: hope so?
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, how am I just now putting that together?
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: When I knew you were forty, you knew I was
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: forty and I know, I'm like, I just.
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 2: But okay, look at how much is still undone And
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 2: listen again.
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 1: I mean these are he marked on the map?
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and before he had this thought, yeah, I like,
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 2: I understand why they haven't went out to find a
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 2: lot of these women. It is very expensive, it is dangerous,
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 2: and there is a small window of time, and the
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 2: wilderness is more than what any of us in the
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 2: lower forty eight can even imagine. No matter where you
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 2: live in the forty eight, it's unbelievable. So I understand
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 2: why to a degree. But at the same time, there's
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 2: so many of us now that can do something to
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 2: figure out who these exes belong to, because they we
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 2: know that they're there, we know that they're women, we
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 2: know that they have families, we know that they were somebody,
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 2: So who in the fuck are they and what are
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 2: we going to do about it now?
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 1: And we know somebody has been able to get to
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 1: there at least once, So it's not like it's totally, yes,
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 1: un obtainable.
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and listen, I'm not I'm not throwing shade at
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 2: state troopers or anything for not being able to find
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 2: that Alaska is different. That if this would happen in
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 2: fucking Indiana. I would be like, fucking go okay, it's flat,
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 2: there's literally nothing. I mean, just go.
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 1: At Balacchia.
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: Well, even though Alaska is very I mean, Alaska's ship
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 2: that's going to eat you and it's all year.
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's dangerous too, and like you said, it.
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 2: Is watch the show alone. I love it that.
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 1: They also have a limited time every year we do
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 1: where it's but still I am that a hopeful person.
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 1: I hope that someone is gonna put together a group
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 1: of pilots searchers and if you have two weeks and
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 1: a year and you got five planes, pick five of
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 1: the yellow spots and go for it.
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 2: You know, I feel like these women were so discarded
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 2: every step of the way by every single person in
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 2: their stories. It is so sad. It is so so sad.
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that if I would have been
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 2: Enchorage during these times, I would have been a good
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 2: person and seen it. I'm not saying that. But what
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 2: we know now, forty forty five fifty years later, I
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 2: think it's up to us to do something to close
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 2: this story, because we don't know Hanson's dead, all right,
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 2: and listen, those yellow spots I believe in my whole
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 2: heart are not the only other victims of Hanson. There
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 2: is no way, all right, on everything we know at
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 2: serial Killers at this point in time, there is absolutely
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 2: no way he had did what all he had did
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 2: and only decided to kill women at a whim when
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 2: he's forty years old, after having a history of raping
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 2: and kidnapping women. It doesn't just go wrong one time
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 2: after thirteen years. It doesn't happen. It never happens. So
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 2: what else is there? And you know, Amy and I
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 2: have talked that's right, twenty and twenty one, Thank you, Amy,
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 2: twenty and twenty one. It is believed to be Mary
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 2: phil and Megan Emrick. And I also want to say
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 2: too that every single woman that we've brought up in
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 2: our story, they are cases. I personally believe that Hanson
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 2: has something to do with I do believe that he
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 2: killed Beth van Zant. I do believe he killed Shirley Jonas.
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 2: I do believe he killed zz Mason. All right, how
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 2: many gravel pits have I just told you about in
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 2: the last three episodes? What after zz Mason? It's literally
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 2: his mo o. All you have to do is look back,
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 2: look at people that were missing, sadly and Robin Pelk,
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 2: and I've thought about this well before Robin Pelk, But
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 2: how many victims does he have that were never reported missing?
• 2:19:15
  Speaker 2: I think that's a very high number, is what I think, agreed.
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 1: And how many not in.
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 2: Alaska and how many not Las Terry.
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, you don't just start doing that when you move
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: to Alas.
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 2: No, no you don't. And so you know, I'm sure
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 2: there will be bonus episodes in the future. I want
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 2: to tell Gary Zeiger's crazy story before he got murdered,
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 2: because it is crazy, and you know, amos and I
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 2: plan on looking more into Alaska, into the Dakotas, Minnesota, Iowa,
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 2: excuse me, all the places he was in his early twenties,
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 2: because with everything we know and listen, Hanson was a
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 2: basic bitch. Okay, he was the X book everything. He
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 2: wasn't special in his serial killings. He was about the
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 2: exactly textbook as you can be, which means that there
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 2: were a lot of women before he was forty that
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 2: he probably murdered. Just where are they and who are they?
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 2: And that's what I believe in my heart after doing
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 2: all of the research that I did. So I just
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 2: want to say, I'm really glad to have taken this
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 2: long journey to tell the real story of Robert Hanson,
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 2: the butcher baker of Alaska, to tell the real stories
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 2: of all of his victims that we know about, because
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 2: they are more than just sex workers and dancers. They
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 2: didn't do anything wrong.
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 1: I know they didn't. But he even the two that
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 1: there's marks on the maps, he didn't admit to them
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 1: because they didn't fall in that category, which tells you
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 1: there's others. Exactly, there's I mean, anybody that thinks that's it,
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you I have got some ocean
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 1: front property right here in my backyard in Austin, Texas.
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 2: To cell you, does this map look like a man
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 2: who can control himself? Does it? This is only three
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 2: years Lucna Annie, nineteen eighty Uh huh, that's it. Three years, guys,
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 2: this math.
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 1: That's it. As I said, what about all of the others.
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, I agree, I think there are many more to claim.
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 2: I think the story is much darker than we could
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 2: ever imagine. And you know, listen, I don't know any
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 2: of these women. I wasn't even fucking alive, all right,
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 2: But if I'm touched and I'm inspired by them to
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 2: get to the truth of what happened, to give names
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 2: to these unknowns, to find the others that could possibly
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 2: because listen, I know that when they went to do
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 2: the interview of Robert Hanson the confession, I understand that
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 2: to some degree their hands were tied because they wanted
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 2: to get as many names out of him as possible.
• 2:22:16
  Speaker 2: Because listen, once he went to prison, he didn't talk
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 2: shit to nobody, nobody. There's nothing he didn't speak out
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 2: about anything. That is it. That is all the information
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 2: there at is. And just like the news today, Terry,
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 2: the Ted Bundy news today where they connected an old
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 2: murder to Ted Bundy that wasn't on their radar, wasn't
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 2: on their radar, how many how many victims of Robert
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 2: Hanson's are we gonna find because they don't tell all
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 2: their secrets.
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 1: And that's what I said, And that's where when I
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 1: say DNA genetic stuff is going to help us, because
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 1: like hopefully we have Robert Hansen's DNA is stored somewhere
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 1: so when they find items of clothing or whatever they find,
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 1: they can trace it back to.
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 2: Him, and I want to say too to you, Terry.
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 2: You know Midday Missing, this is what you do. You
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 2: cover the stories of the people that society doesn't really
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 2: give a shit about. You know, they're not the perfect
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 2: victims if you will, And that's why your show is
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 2: so important, because you are giving voices to the missing
• 2:23:34
  Speaker 2: that are like a lot of these women in blue,
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 2: a lot of these unknown women in yellow.
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 1: And even if they're not even they're just an everyday
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 1: person like us. I mean, that's why so many people
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 1: are mad about Nancy Guthrie getting so much exposure because
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 1: so many don't get it, and a lot of it
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 1: has to do with they don't want to look for
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 1: the perfect victims. Also, there's so many law enforcement doesn't
• 2:24:05
  Speaker 1: have the bandwidth.
• 2:24:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know how many of us are perfect to
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 2: begin with. I probably wouldn't even qualify as a perfect
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't qualify. In fact, a lot would be like here,
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 1: we're glad she's gone. But what is sad is those families. Guys,
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 1: they never just move on. And I have to tell
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 1: you the number of family members who have told me
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 1: that they've been told to just move on. Yeah, and
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 1: to forget about their missing loved one. I have to
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 1: tell you, whoever says that is a human And if
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 1: you've ever thought of saying it, shame on you, right,
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 1: shame on you.
• 2:24:46
  Speaker 2: It's been forty fifty years for some of these people.
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 2: Do you should we forget about all of them? Go
• 2:24:51
  Speaker 2: fuck yourself, That's what I have to say about it.
• 2:24:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, they have children, they have parents, they have siblings,
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 1: they have friends, they have cousins, they have I mean,
• 2:25:01
  Speaker 1: just because you're missing doesn't mean they just forget about you.
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 1: They don't just say, oh, yeah I had a person.
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah they're gone, Let's just move on. They wonder what happened.
• 2:25:13
  Speaker 1: And that's why I am shocked at Alaska to hear
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 1: took them so long to identify person. You knew Hansen,
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 1: you knew there was a map, you knew, and you
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 1: still didn't put it together. That tells you right there,
• 2:25:31
  Speaker 1: how unimportant missing women are. Yeah, to law enforcement and
• 2:25:38
  Speaker 1: the majority.
• 2:25:39
  Speaker 2: Of society exactly. So let's do better because things are
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 2: not fixed in Alaska. Y'o. Okay, go watch Lost Women
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 2: of Alaska. It's about another serial killer recently in the
• 2:25:52
  Speaker 2: twenty nineteen twenty sixteen timeframe who did the same exact
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 2: fucking thing, and you hear the same dumb shit from
• 2:25:59
  Speaker 2: the investment sigators then too, where you're like, oh my god,
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 2: you know how many serial killers Anchorage has had in
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 2: the last like forty years? At least three, but I
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 2: think it's five, But three I can remember off the
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 2: top of my head, so I don't want to say five.
• 2:26:14
  Speaker 2: But you have a history of serial killers killing sex workers.
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 2: So when some of them start going missing, I don't know.
• 2:26:22
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how they're like, well, it doesn't look
• 2:26:25
  Speaker 2: like anything to me. You know, it's not like you
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 2: live in some fuck all sit down of like five
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 2: hundred people where are like nothing bad ever happens here. Yeah,
• 2:26:36
  Speaker 2: that's hello.
• 2:26:37
  Speaker 1: It's called the Last Frontier for a reason.
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm apparently overqualified for a job on the
• 2:26:46
  Speaker 2: police department or the Troopers of Alaska because I can
• 2:26:50
  Speaker 2: use my entire brain to oh, yeah, it does well.
• 2:26:53
  Speaker 1: And it's to be honest, I don't think it's that.
• 2:26:57
  Speaker 1: I think it's that they don't see the significance or time.
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 1: They're like, why should I waste my time on that?
• 2:27:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, let's just be honest, guys, we're talking about
• 2:27:07
  Speaker 1: sex workers, exotic dancers. But guys, I said this earlier.
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 1: I don't remember if it was off air or not.
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 1: But who do you think's bang to see them?
• 2:27:17
  Speaker 2: Exactly, Terry.
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 1: It's the demand, it's the company owners, it's the community guys,
• 2:27:26
  Speaker 1: respectable people, and that's the problem. And we all can
• 2:27:30
  Speaker 1: do better because even I occasionally will see somebody and
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 1: I will make an instant judgment and I try really
• 2:27:37
  Speaker 1: hard and say, oh, check yourself. You don't know what
• 2:27:41
  Speaker 1: their situation is. You shouldn't. And we all can have
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 1: those moments absolutely, and the one thing that we can
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 1: do is try to be better. Oh, Israel Keys, Israel
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 1: Keys was more than Alaska. He was. Yeah, I think
• 2:27:59
  Speaker 1: there's a lot.
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 2: There was another guy named bun Day who was day
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 2: same time as Thomas bun Day. I believe in.
• 2:28:08
  Speaker 1: Gus, those are the ones that we know about, that
• 2:28:11
  Speaker 1: we know about. I mean, Alaska is a big place
• 2:28:16
  Speaker 1: and there's a lot of Yeah.
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 2: So well, I just want to say one thanks for
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 2: letting me be so gigantic project. I appreciate it because
• 2:28:29
  Speaker 2: you did.
• 2:28:31
  Speaker 1: What you and I both agree on with our show
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 1: is being respectful to the victims and telling the stories
• 2:28:39
  Speaker 1: even when they're hard, and even if nobody else cares.
• 2:28:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I care. I don't give a ship.
• 2:28:48
  Speaker 1: We care, and I don't give a ship if anybody
• 2:28:50
  Speaker 1: else does. Guys, there was an Alaska and we're going
• 2:28:55
  Speaker 1: to do an episode of it. I just haven't told
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 1: Lomma yet. There was a person who a young Native
• 2:29:05
  Speaker 1: woman was killed. Turned out to be the police officer.
• 2:29:09
  Speaker 2: What never? Oh for got bet She's not the only
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 2: fucking one. I'll tell you that right now. I tell
• 2:29:16
  Speaker 2: you that, guess what, not the only suspect.
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 1: There's more, because they have true that he was picking
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 1: these women up and having sex with them in his
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 1: patrol car while on patrol. You know what else is interesting? Guys?
• 2:29:33
  Speaker 1: They never took his police vehicle in for forensics.
• 2:29:38
  Speaker 2: I would love to. I just had my shock pikachew
• 2:29:41
  Speaker 2: face on it right now, like you don't say.
• 2:29:45
  Speaker 1: It's on my list that Lama I will be doing
• 2:29:49
  Speaker 1: because I heard it on another podcast. They did a
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 1: good job. But after this, I'm like, oh, I know
• 2:29:56
  Speaker 1: there is so much more that they didn't tell. Because
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 1: I also heard their version of Hanson and I thought
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 1: I knew Hanson.
• 2:30:07
  Speaker 2: And that's my plea to all of our listeners is
• 2:30:11
  Speaker 2: next time you go watch a Hanson documentary, you'll leave
• 2:30:14
  Speaker 2: a comment or somewhere and be like, how come, why
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 2: don't you tell the real story, the real story. Hold
• 2:30:20
  Speaker 2: everyone accountable for what happened, because Alaska does have blood
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 2: on their hands. It's not up for a debate. It's
• 2:30:27
  Speaker 2: not a matter of opinion. There is no opinion to have.
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 1: And for anyone. Because I did read a couple of
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 1: articles that they said, you can't prove those unknown women
• 2:30:37
  Speaker 1: are tied to Hanson. Excuse me, they're on his fucking map,
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 1: would you. It's just like when the girl comes in
• 2:30:49
  Speaker 1: and says, this guy took me, this is what he drove,
• 2:30:52
  Speaker 1: this is what the inside of the house looked like,
• 2:30:55
  Speaker 1: he had a gun. What more evidence do you need?
• 2:30:58
  Speaker 1: Any X on that map is a person anyone that
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 1: you need.
• 2:31:08
  Speaker 2: You're part of the problem. To just go away, you're
• 2:31:13
  Speaker 2: part of the problem.
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 1: And Savage, it's okay to pay for exotic answers.
• 2:31:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I'm paid for them, I know. But the
• 2:31:22
  Speaker 2: problem is is that there's like, oh, these are respectable
• 2:31:24
  Speaker 2: people and these aren't. Even though people they merge together
• 2:31:28
  Speaker 2: all the fucking time because they're.
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 1: People, they're bable and as we're seeing in the news
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 1: right now, just because you come from a holy Roller
• 2:31:37
  Speaker 1: family doesn't mean you're not a bad person.
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 2: No, But I just want to say, I'm I don't
• 2:31:47
  Speaker 2: want to write anything like this requite a while. I
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 2: honestly I have not. I've been writing for you for
• 2:31:52
  Speaker 2: like quite a while, uh now, and I have not
• 2:31:56
  Speaker 2: had a case like this that's ever a fact did
• 2:32:00
  Speaker 2: me in the way that it has to write it
• 2:32:02
  Speaker 2: both angry and sadness and get all listens, all all
• 2:32:09
  Speaker 2: of the emotions with it because it has been you know,
• 2:32:12
  Speaker 2: forty fifty plus years and you could literally take this
• 2:32:17
  Speaker 2: entire story and put it into today's world and it
• 2:32:21
  Speaker 2: would make just as much sense. And that's what's sad
• 2:32:26
  Speaker 2: about this whole thing. But more so it's happening in
• 2:32:31
  Speaker 2: other states. Oh yeah, at that's just not.
• 2:32:34
  Speaker 1: The anyway, guys. Let's just be honest. It just hasn't
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 1: been put together yet.
• 2:32:40
  Speaker 2: But this isn't all on Robert Hanson. Yes, he did
• 2:32:44
  Speaker 2: the disgusting thing.
• 2:32:46
  Speaker 1: He was a person, but he was given the keys.
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 2: In the house. Many women lost their lives, literally lost
• 2:32:56
  Speaker 2: their lives because he wasn't in jail where he was
• 2:32:59
  Speaker 2: sants to be. He should have been in there. All
• 2:33:04
  Speaker 2: of the dead women we have talked about, every single
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 2: dead woman that we've talked about, every single survivor after
• 2:33:13
  Speaker 2: Patty Roberts, none of that should have happened because during
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 2: those times, his ass should have been in prison where
• 2:33:19
  Speaker 2: he was sentenced to be. And that is what is infuriating,
• 2:33:25
  Speaker 2: because we're not talking about one or two women. We're
• 2:33:27
  Speaker 2: talking about dozens, even more than dozens of women. We
• 2:33:31
  Speaker 2: don't even know how many women, all because well, he's
• 2:33:38
  Speaker 2: a man who owns a business and has a family,
• 2:33:41
  Speaker 2: and that is so ungodly sad.
• 2:33:44
  Speaker 1: But when he was caught, if they would have kept
• 2:33:47
  Speaker 1: him where he was supposed to be instead of this
• 2:33:50
  Speaker 1: lack of doodle psychiatrist, who I mean, they put him
• 2:33:54
  Speaker 1: on work release like six months later. They thought he
• 2:33:57
  Speaker 1: was cured. You do not cure of the person who's
• 2:34:03
  Speaker 1: this evil. You don't cure them.
• 2:34:05
  Speaker 2: There is no cure, and don't Yeah, they didn't believe
• 2:34:09
  Speaker 2: that troopers died. It didn't matter. I mean, that's that's
• 2:34:12
  Speaker 2: exactly why I was like, Darry, we need to tell
• 2:34:14
  Speaker 2: her you're not going to believe the shit that I
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 2: have to tell you.
• 2:34:20
  Speaker 1: Said, if they would have come from good families. Is
• 2:34:25
  Speaker 1: a trooper's family not a good family?
• 2:34:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, Laney said, are you going to be doing the
• 2:34:32
  Speaker 2: g Go Beach Killer story is pleading next week? April sixth,
• 2:34:36
  Speaker 2: is a hearing it's similar to this one. I would
• 2:34:38
  Speaker 2: like to I'm not going to be doing it anytime soon. No,
• 2:34:41
  Speaker 2: I would like to, but I feel I do. I'm
• 2:34:43
  Speaker 2: with you. I see the similarities. I think he has
• 2:34:47
  Speaker 2: more victims too. Oh? Absolutely? And why maybe end of.
• 2:34:54
  Speaker 1: The year or next year, because I think there's still
• 2:34:59
  Speaker 1: more to come from him.
• 2:35:01
  Speaker 2: I agree there. I want to as well, Laney, they're
• 2:35:06
  Speaker 2: so they are so similar, But I next time, I'm
• 2:35:11
  Speaker 2: not going to be like so this episode, by the way.
• 2:35:14
  Speaker 1: Not one say it's going to be one or two episodes.
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 1: She's gonna be like, listen, I got a novel. I
• 2:35:19
  Speaker 1: want to do.
• 2:35:23
  Speaker 2: Twenty pages we wrote. Let's see if each episode is
• 2:35:26
  Speaker 2: like twenty pages. I don't somebody do the math. But no,
• 2:35:31
  Speaker 2: I did not give myself enough time. I mean, I
• 2:35:33
  Speaker 2: did them all, but next time, I want to give
• 2:35:35
  Speaker 2: myself some time. But I'm very interested in that.
• 2:35:37
  Speaker 1: He is pleading guilty, I think, and talking to somebody
• 2:35:42
  Speaker 1: I know that lives in that area that is in
• 2:35:44
  Speaker 1: law enforcement up in your neck of the woods. Kind of,
• 2:35:48
  Speaker 1: he's fleeting guilty, so he doesn't have to talk yep, well,
• 2:35:53
  Speaker 1: and doesn't have to tell about the others. Oh no,
• 2:35:56
  Speaker 1: he's gonna have to all acute to me.
• 2:35:58
  Speaker 2: Is he being guilty in a plea deal?
• 2:36:01
  Speaker 1: So I'm he's pleading guilty.
• 2:36:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, then he doesn't have to say anything if he
• 2:36:05
  Speaker 2: doesn't want to.
• 2:36:06
  Speaker 1: Interesting he's but apparently there is some evidence there's some
• 2:36:14
  Speaker 1: DNA stuff going on in the background.
• 2:36:17
  Speaker 2: So well, I think that's why Hanton took the plea
• 2:36:20
  Speaker 2: deal too. He didn't want all of his secrets to
• 2:36:23
  Speaker 2: be public information. I feel that's the same with Rex
• 2:36:26
  Speaker 2: as well. But I'm definitely keeping my eye on that lady.
• 2:36:30
  Speaker 1: I wanted it to go to trial because I was
• 2:36:32
  Speaker 1: going to force LAMA to stream it.
• 2:36:35
  Speaker 2: If it wouldn't, I don't know if it's no, but
• 2:36:37
  Speaker 2: if it would have.
• 2:36:38
  Speaker 1: Been, I would have been begging you.
• 2:36:41
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I probably would have. I mean, it's not
• 2:36:43
  Speaker 2: every day you get a serial killer trial these days.
• 2:36:45
  Speaker 2: But yeah, but anyway, So that wraps up our closing
• 2:36:49
  Speaker 2: thoughts again. I know it's been many episodes. I hope
• 2:36:52
  Speaker 2: now that we've finished it, I recommend anybody who has
• 2:36:55
  Speaker 2: finished this please just go back and listen to the
• 2:36:58
  Speaker 2: first episode or listen to all of them. Now you
• 2:37:01
  Speaker 2: know all the things.
• 2:37:02
  Speaker 1: It is, so now you're like, going, how did they
• 2:37:06
  Speaker 1: not have.
• 2:37:09
  Speaker 2: That first episode? I mean, it's infuriating. Once you know everything,
• 2:37:14
  Speaker 2: you're like, oh my god, are you kidding me? He's
• 2:37:17
  Speaker 2: been on your radar this whole fucking time. He's done
• 2:37:19
  Speaker 2: all this shit. You know about it, and you're like.
• 2:37:24
  Speaker 1: Well, my law enforcement friend who's retired, he's like when
• 2:37:27
  Speaker 1: I was telling him, he's like, why are you doing that?
• 2:37:29
  Speaker 1: I thought y'all were doing that like three weeks ago?
• 2:37:32
  Speaker 1: Because I talked to him today. I was like, no,
• 2:37:34
  Speaker 1: do you not know? He's like, yeah, I've seen the
• 2:37:36
  Speaker 1: documentary and I know. And I started telling me he
• 2:37:38
  Speaker 1: goes what he goes? Are you sure? I'm like, just
• 2:37:42
  Speaker 1: go back and listen. I said, I know my voice
• 2:37:45
  Speaker 1: drives you crazy, but just go yeah, rest our livers.
• 2:37:51
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, that's why we were going to do this
• 2:37:53
  Speaker 1: before surgery, because after tomorrow night, I will be dry
• 2:37:58
  Speaker 1: for quite a while.
• 2:38:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, since I want to drink so much.
• 2:38:02
  Speaker 2: Well that's Amy's Q to say. Now, I'm just kidding
• 2:38:05
  Speaker 2: a sign her cue and thank you.
• 2:38:08
  Speaker 1: All for sticking with this in be just as angry
• 2:38:13
  Speaker 1: and leave.
• 2:38:13
  Speaker 2: If you have any questions, leave them in the comments.
• 2:38:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe we'll do a bonus episode where we just answer
• 2:38:20
  Speaker 2: questions and talk more and depth about things. Whatever you
• 2:38:23
  Speaker 2: guys want. If you want more, you let me know
• 2:38:26
  Speaker 2: and I will definitely work on making that happen. In
• 2:38:29
  Speaker 2: a few months or so. I need to escape Alaska
• 2:38:33
  Speaker 2: for but before go ahead, sure.
• 2:38:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, I was trying to go. Remind you guys. Tomorrow
• 2:38:43
  Speaker 1: night we are back with True Crime and Mine Time.
• 2:38:47
  Speaker 1: But guys, we are not going to be in Alaska.
• 2:38:50
  Speaker 1: We are gonna go over to Florida. We're gonna go
• 2:38:54
  Speaker 1: over where it's a little bit warmer. And let me
• 2:38:57
  Speaker 1: tell you tomorrow night, we're getting into the k of
• 2:39:00
  Speaker 1: Dahlia to Bledo and let me tell you, she will
• 2:39:05
  Speaker 1: be one of the reasons that you will never forget Florida.
• 2:39:07
  Speaker 1: We all know Florida's crazy. She should be their poster child.
• 2:39:12
  Speaker 2: With those highlights. We's all in there, but A should
• 2:39:16
  Speaker 2: be their poster child. She's the worst. She is the worst.
• 2:39:21
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to talk about somebody other than fucking Robert Hanson.
• 2:39:24
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited about it. Let me tell you what
• 2:39:27
  Speaker 2: now before we go, though, If you like what you
• 2:39:29
  Speaker 2: heard tonight, be sure to follow all of our socials
• 2:39:33
  Speaker 2: and subscribe to our YouTube channel. It's free, and I
• 2:39:37
  Speaker 2: do other stuff besides this podcast, like couch Coot with Lama,
• 2:39:40
  Speaker 2: where we're discussing Laura Owens, which is that shit insane
• 2:39:44
  Speaker 2: and it's about to get so much more insane excuse
• 2:39:47
  Speaker 2: me next week. It's unbelievable. But if you're listening to
• 2:39:51
  Speaker 2: our pod, please download and give us a rating. All
• 2:39:55
  Speaker 2: of that helps us tremendously in getting our channel out there,
• 2:39:59
  Speaker 2: and again, we just appreciate everyone's support in helping us
• 2:40:02
  Speaker 2: do what we love and bringing voices to the victims,
• 2:40:07
  Speaker 2: because that is our number one priority. I don't care
• 2:40:10
  Speaker 2: if we don't give any views on this story. It's
• 2:40:13
  Speaker 2: a fact that we've said all of these women's names
• 2:40:16
  Speaker 2: and their stories because you live as long as the
• 2:40:19
  Speaker 2: last person that remembers you, and I think these women
• 2:40:23
  Speaker 2: deserve to be remembered, absolutely so, and then we have
• 2:40:28
  Speaker 2: something else.
• 2:40:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and sorry Savage, I can't think of what the
• 2:40:33
  Speaker 1: title of the song is ball something but yeah, what
• 2:40:40
  Speaker 1: what are you talking from? You've got to read the comments. Okay,
• 2:40:45
  Speaker 1: Wasp's album from the Last Command.
• 2:40:48
  Speaker 2: Oh well, I gotta do that.
• 2:40:51
  Speaker 1: What is this story?
• 2:40:53
  Speaker 2: Oh well, we're gonna know a little bro wo. So
• 2:40:58
  Speaker 2: when we're not alive, we hang out in our Discord
• 2:41:01
  Speaker 2: server the courtyard and not we them us, Me and
• 2:41:06
  Speaker 2: all the cool kids hang out on the courtyard on Discord,
• 2:41:09
  Speaker 2: and right now we are doing a Marvel marathon the MCUs.
• 2:41:15
  Speaker 2: We prepare for Doomsday. We've been doing it nonstuff when
• 2:41:19
  Speaker 2: we're not on here live. That is exactly what we're
• 2:41:22
  Speaker 2: doing over there. So come join our discords over It's
• 2:41:25
  Speaker 2: okay if you don't know how it works, we will
• 2:41:27
  Speaker 2: happily teach you and get you in there. But we
• 2:41:31
  Speaker 2: are watching all the Marvel shows and movies everything. Because
• 2:41:35
  Speaker 2: if you thought I'm long winded and want to tell
• 2:41:37
  Speaker 2: a series in twelve parts, I go even deeper with
• 2:41:41
  Speaker 2: TV shows and movies. So join us. We're on the courtyard.
• 2:41:46
  Speaker 2: We also talk true crime over there too.
• 2:41:49
  Speaker 1: We do I mean, I will say, they got me
• 2:41:52
  Speaker 1: into Game of Thrones, and I have been so.
• 2:41:54
  Speaker 2: Grateful for that's You're are welcome.
• 2:41:59
  Speaker 1: And I've seen all of the Marvel shows. I've seen them.
• 2:42:02
  Speaker 1: I don't need to go see them again. But I
• 2:42:04
  Speaker 1: am starting Housewives of Salt Lake City.
• 2:42:09
  Speaker 2: And you're going to see I was right again, and
• 2:42:12
  Speaker 2: maybe you do need to watch the shows.
• 2:42:15
  Speaker 1: She just got out of prison.
• 2:42:17
  Speaker 2: One of them. Want Oh, there's a bunch of girl
• 2:42:23
  Speaker 2: in with.
• 2:42:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm excited to learn about this woman and
• 2:42:28
  Speaker 1: how she went from being a real house and how
• 2:42:30
  Speaker 1: can you be a housewife if you have a job,
• 2:42:34
  Speaker 1: because I thought a housewives stay home and took care
• 2:42:36
  Speaker 1: of the house, not ran businesses.
• 2:42:39
  Speaker 2: These ladies spoiler alert, a lot of them have legal
• 2:42:42
  Speaker 2: troubles and quite a few of them go to federal prison, and.
• 2:42:46
  Speaker 1: They have the housekeepers and nanny's. So you can't be
• 2:42:49
  Speaker 1: a housewife if you have nanny's and housekeepers.
• 2:42:52
  Speaker 2: I assure you, that's going to be the least of
• 2:42:54
  Speaker 2: your questions of anyway, So, yeah, if you had to confine.
• 2:43:00
  Speaker 2: We talked about true crime there too as well, not
• 2:43:02
  Speaker 2: just Marvel, though there's a lot of Marvel in Housewives
• 2:43:04
  Speaker 2: Talk just right now, Is there anything that you want
• 2:43:09
  Speaker 2: to say before we go, or say not Terry I do.
• 2:43:12
  Speaker 1: I want to thank everybody for sticking with us there
• 2:43:15
  Speaker 1: in this horrible case, but I also want to ask
• 2:43:19
  Speaker 1: everyone to let it be a reminder to not only
• 2:43:22
  Speaker 1: stay aware of yourself and the people around you and
• 2:43:26
  Speaker 1: what's going on, but if you see something and it
• 2:43:29
  Speaker 1: doesn't look right, say something, because that was one of
• 2:43:34
  Speaker 1: the problems in Alaska, and we see it happen, people
• 2:43:37
  Speaker 1: are like, oh, it's none of my business. I don't
• 2:43:38
  Speaker 1: want to get involved. Do something.
• 2:43:42
  Speaker 2: Also, let's just when the police aren't doing their shit,
• 2:43:45
  Speaker 2: call them out on it.
• 2:43:46
  Speaker 1: To pull them out on it. And let's try to
• 2:43:48
  Speaker 1: be kind and let's not judge other people's lifestyles. Let's
• 2:43:54
  Speaker 1: not if they're consenting adults and they are choosing to
• 2:43:58
  Speaker 1: go work that profession, it's none of our business.
• 2:44:03
  Speaker 2: That's true. That's true. Well, I want to say thank
• 2:44:07
  Speaker 2: you all for joining us on this very long, multi
• 2:44:10
  Speaker 2: part series. I know sometimes it can be a little
• 2:44:13
  Speaker 2: overwhelming when there's numerous parts, but I hope you all
• 2:44:16
  Speaker 2: understand why we felt it was so important to tell
• 2:44:20
  Speaker 2: the complete story of Robert Hanson and all of his victims.
• 2:44:26
  Speaker 2: I would love to list them all, but it's it's sadly,
• 2:44:30
  Speaker 2: it's so many that I can't. And please share this
• 2:44:34
  Speaker 2: story on social media if you have it. When you
• 2:44:38
  Speaker 2: see them put out a new documentary about Robert Hanson,
• 2:44:41
  Speaker 2: if they leave out everything that happened before, call them
• 2:44:45
  Speaker 2: out on it. That's another group. Call them out. Ask
• 2:44:48
  Speaker 2: them why they're protecting the state that let dozens of
• 2:44:53
  Speaker 2: women die. Is all I'm asking for you to do.
• 2:44:56
  Speaker 2: Go be a voice for those women who never got
• 2:44:59
  Speaker 2: the chance to say anything, because we can still do
• 2:45:03
  Speaker 2: our part, even forty years later.
• 2:45:06
  Speaker 1: We can.
• 2:45:07
  Speaker 2: But on this somber note, let me just chair it
• 2:45:10
  Speaker 2: up with what I always say. Until next time being
• 2:45:13
  Speaker 2: tomorrow night, go forth and be amazing, all right, bye guys.
• 2:45:21
  Speaker 2: H