Latest / Between The Briefs with Stef Calleja-Gera / Let’s Start At The Very Beginning

Transcript

Let’s Start At The Very Beginning · Between The Briefs with Stef Calleja-Gera

• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Content content content.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: No one is short of creating content at the moment, and with AI it's even easier to generate it.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: But what should we be creating?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: My name's Stephanie Kaleajera.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a commercial product and lifestyle photographer with over 20 years experience in the industry, but this is not a photography podcast.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be peeling back the briefing sheets, looking behind the scenes at the creative industry, we'll be speaking to other photographers, filmmakers, set designers, stylists, and getting the lowdown on what happened between the actual brief and the finished product.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: You'll hear firsthand the horror stories, the funny stories, and everything that happens in between in the creative world.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be talking about the brands that get it right and the ones that get it spectacularly wrong.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: We'll also be leaning into the topical discussions around the creative industry and what's affecting every brand right now.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: No doubt there'll be some serious conversation, but there'll also be a load of humour too.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that's it, that's the premise of the show.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome along and are you ready to get between the briefs with me?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So on the show today with me, I have Oliver Craddock, who is here asking me questions, making me really uncomfortable, and finding out what I find important about the creative world.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we're starting at the beginning.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: A very good place to start, so I'm told.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: I want to add one more thing.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Is that you in that picture?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: It is, is it?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when I was about three.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: You do rock a fringe.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I should get a Claudia fringe.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: I need the Winkleman.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, Steph, what made you want to make this podcast?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Good question.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think I wanted to start between the briefs because I've spent so many years working alongside different creatives in the industry.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've heard brilliant stories, you know, I've seen some amazing creatives come together.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've also worked with a lot of brands that and companies that don't quite understand visual identity or don't know where the right placement of it is.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's just a bigger conversation there to be had, especially with the changing.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you think that people have a sort of misunderstanding about what commercial photography is?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And do you think that's part of the thing that you want to try and get across?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's not just even about the commercial photography itself.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's about the whole aspect of a brand.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's about the whole visual identity, right?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: You've got, you know, every everything that people see um is important from the logo through to uh sort of how they present themselves on social media, the how the website sits, how how their sign writing looks.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I'll let you in on a bit of a secret.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: I bet you've done this about five times today already.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: I bet you have.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: I bet you have seen either in a magazine this morning, whilst you're having your breakfast, um, an advert of some kind, you might have seen, like I say, a sign-written van on the way here, um, seen the logo outside the building, uh, and thought, okay, or you've even seen this set, and you've instantly judged all of those different brands, and in your mind you've categorized whether or not you think they're they're good and they they tick a box and they could be trustworthy and you might like to work with them, or whether you've looked at them and thought, oh, that's a bit rubbish.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: The scary thing about all of that, the scary thing about the fact that you you're doing it means that your potential clients are doing it as well.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: So when you know a client is is or a new customer is potentially looking to work with you, before they've even read your about you page, before they know anything about your history and how talented you may or may not be, they're judging you visually.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's the landscape we live in.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's where we're at, and that's why more than ever, how you look visually and how consistent that visual messaging is, is even more important if you're trying to present yourself as either an individual, whether it's personal branding or a company or a brand, um, you know, it's so vital that that messaging is clear and consistent.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: The conversation feels even more relevant now with AI coming so much into the forefront.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the world's changing really quickly, and AI is going to massively impact all of that.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that's another part of why this podcast is so valuable, because it's looking at where brands sit now, how they currently work with their marketing, and how they integrate AI into that to make it work with it as well as the existing content, and to also still be um recognizable because with the possibility of generating so much content, how do you not look like everybody else?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: How do you still stand out from the noise?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where people who have experience in the creative world who've been doing this for years can really, you know, help bridge that gap, basically.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think some or some businesses, some organizations might get this wrong in this sort of day and age?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I think it's just having you know, it's having that gap in knowledge.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's having um traditional marketing, traditional approaches, and then you know, the advancements of things are are just so rapid.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: And do you think that some of the stuff that they've they'll sort of be engaged with with regards to the how their content looks, the way they want to portray themselves?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that with the modern times with maybe sort of not political but different sort of laws and different ways of looking at things, that that's been a massive influence on the way people look at their content?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it definitely affects larger companies.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think for for really big brands, obviously that's a consideration, but they probably have marketing campaigns that are targeted to specific countries.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um do you think that impacts them?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Not I won't say negatively all the time, but do you think that can slow the process down?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's changed the industry, whether it's content creation, photography?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as the world's got smaller, it's it's sort of created more issues, if you like.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: But obviously, as the world gets smaller, um, they want to market to more of it.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're trying to do do one messaging for all and but still, you know, have an overall kind of brown.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other reason I wanted to ask this question was that if you have got lots more AI, it's continually to improve, getting better.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a company could just say, Well, do you know this is what I want it to show, this is what I want it to say, I don't want it to have these kind of values, whatever it might be, put it into a computer and then it'll magically create the outcome.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think then it having that direction with working with somebody like yourself is going to be more important as time goes on because you might end up with something that's completely removed from what they're trying to achieve?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think there definitely needs to be somebody in the driving seat, 100%.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: There needs to be, you know, just getting um the CEO or someone to start doing this, they're not going to understand the branding industry in from the perspective of them of the actual visual marketing, because that's not their job.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's never been their job.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody who who works already in that world brings so much more um experience to the table that they're going to understand how better to implement those tools.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just normal and natural with any industry, with any job that you go to, you know, you you wouldn't sort of go into, I don't know, like a bloody building site and just say, right, I've seen how you do that welding, I'm gonna do the welding now.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've watched you do it, I'm gonna do it.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And do you think the other thing that maybe that AI can't do, do you think that the experience and sort of stuff that you know, dare I say it, you can feel more about what the the client's trying to get or what the the organization's trying to get out of it that maybe a computer couldn't recognise?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: What I mean by that is, you know, if you've got a company that's been around for 50, 60, 70 years, maybe a hundred years and they've they've sort of moved on with the times, um, you know, there will be a certain degree of empathy that you'll be able to have with regards to how they did something, how they want to try and carry that through, but they want to be representative of modern times.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at the De Beers campaign, even from 1948, you know, they um targeted people's emotions.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was one of the earliest sort of campaigns that really did that successfully, and they went from millions of pounds worth of diamond ring sales for engagements and such the like through to billions within a matter of about um five years or something as a result of those campaigns.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it was all about getting in touch with what people with what people felt when they saw that campaign.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that one of the fundamental things that will always be the case with marketing and with trying to celebrate is how it makes someone feel, and I think that that is something that you know there needs to be a a creative direction, someone that understands that process in order to direct AI to do that.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: AI is unfeeling.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can ask it what it might want to feel, but it but it's you know it's a tool and it's something that can be used to create some amazing content or to be an aid to create create content.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think it would work in partnership with those things.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no you know, there's no reason to fight it, there's a reason to incorporate it into what you're doing, and those that are doing it quicker are seeing those results already, but it's making sure that what you do is in alignment with as well the brand identity, right?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that it's not taking it too far away from it because it's new and shiny and it's you know something new to play with.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Have you seen businesses that may have got this wrong?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, have you got any kind of horror stories of where you've maybe worked with a business that have maybe just sort of miscalculated where they were gonna the the sort of direction that they wanted to go, or maybe they they just said, nope, this is the direction we're going, we're not gonna take on any of your experience or you know, past history of how you've done things.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Have you had any experiences of that?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um without naming names?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, name all the names.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Name the names.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, um not not really to do with AI, because uh obviously that's you know, sort of been a relatively recent um uh thing that's started to, you know, become massive, obviously.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: But no, I think in general, um I mean have you ever sorry to interrupt you, but have you ever just had like a you know, has there been a business where they've just gone, this is the route that we want to take?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you've gone, well, actually we might be able to tweak it that way, whether it's been AI or not, where they've just gone, nope, we'd just do it this way.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you've probably and they haven't listened to any sort of advice, and then you've seen some sort of pretty bad results from it?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I have worked on a few campaigns where um the client's been very, very, very particular about how they want something to go.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and to to varying degrees of success, but I think where the biggest um challenge lies with with uh clients who have a brand or whatever is when they don't know when it's it's actually almost worse when they don't have a clue because they they don't know what they don't know until they see what they don't like, yeah.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's almost worse.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: If somebody knows really what they want, even if I don't agree with it, um then obviously I can advise, but I can't, you know, force someone to do something.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if somebody wants to test something and trial something, you you have to allow that process.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, do you where people come in and go, you know, we've got this product, we've got this service, don't really know what we're trying to achieve with it.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, more often than you think.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I had a I actually had a client, um, I had a client Teams call about three weeks ago uh with a brand, and they're emerging and they're about two or three years old, um, but they have like boomed really quickly.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: They've gone from nothing zero to a hundred really quickly, um, which which sort of shows you know they've got a relatively inexperienced marketing team.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um and so I had this call with them and they were looking to potentially do a shoot, and they they knew the they knew some of the outcomes that they wanted, but not all of them.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: They were looking for some advice, which I gave them.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, they said, Oh, actually, I don't know whether we want to go with this kind of um image at the end of it or this kind of image at the end of it.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, that's okay, we can do some testing.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, do you have any, you know, any brand guidelines to work to for what your what you expect the brand to look like at the end of it?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the answer I got was, what's that?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and you know, that was really quite shocking to me because I thought, well, that's quite fundamental, you know, to to have underpinned what your ethos is, what your palette is, what your typography is, what your you know, um general messaging is, because that then helps you to brief people like myself.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's almost like the first step.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, that's fine, it doesn't matter, you know, this is what it is.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I can actually help with you know creating that if you would like to go down that route, so that you've got that in place for anybody else that you work with, not just as a photographer, but videographers, you know, magazines, editorials, anything that they they go to a third party for, or packaging, even, you know, packaging design is also part of that, and they already had created packaging.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, it's they had some elements of it that they knew, but they hadn't transferred it.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, what would you what would you say?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I know there's gonna be something that we'll we'll we'll discuss a bit later on, but what would be the sort of bare minimum?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if if you had a a small business out there today that's watching this podcast that then decides, do you know what?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I really want to have a bit more of a conversation about it, what would you say would be the bare minimum?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because from from your point of view, you're gonna have to, well, I'm gonna have to cost this job.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if somebody comes in and goes, Well, I don't know what I want, and you know, it's gonna be very difficult for you to kind of price that.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: The reason I ask you that is that what would you sort of need for them to sort of have some direction of what to send you, talk you through, or is there some sort of, you know, is there something that you can do to help them go through that process?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a hundred percent, actually.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there is a very useful tool um that I've created that's free.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it'll be available after this podcast that people could download, basically, so that they can go through and do their own review of their brand as it is at the minute.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So like a like an audit almost.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, brilliant.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and what that allows is for you to go through the different stages of you know, communication, of uh where you see the brand going, of your visuals currently, like how everything is, is have you got things in different folders all over the place?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do you use the same images across your content or the same style of of um, you know, sort of colour schemes and all of that kind of stuff, or is it all a bit haphazard?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it'll take you through all of that um in baby steps and you know, it's just a series of questions that take you about 10-15 minutes.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then at the end of it, it gives you uh a score, essentially, and a result that that is then broken down and gives you some advice on to sort of where you are, and then shows you a complete contact sheet of all of the things that you can do to start making positive change to move in the right direction with the brand and at least gives a starting point.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, that's all completely free.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um they can find that on your website.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and it'll be available on the link at the bottom of the podcast as well.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, brilliant.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you know, it's a way to try and help brands, and it's a way to like um just uh give a bit of my knowledge back um and knowledge of of other creatives that I've worked with over the years historically, because it is really important.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because presumably, as well, the more information that you get out of that, or and they sort of when I say what do we used to we used to call it signposting back in the back in the day.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Signposting, signposting, where people might not necessarily know where they want to sort of end up, but then as you're sort of closing doors off, as you say, they know what they don't like.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So presumably this is the first part of that.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: They can go through this list, they can make some assessment of where they're 100% be.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then you might be able to come to it and go, actually, this is what you're trying to achieve, you don't want to do any of these things, and this is what we kind of think.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And they might have gone, wow, that's a great idea.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it gives tips, it gives hints, it gives all of the suggestions at the end of it, it gives um, you know, an action plan that they can follow, um, and um a suggested sort of route of progress change depending on their on their score sheet, and also it's broken down into the sections, so you know, uh, say they score higher in one section than another, it will point that out and it will explain um sort of what it might be in that section that they might need to focus on a bit more heavily, perhaps communication or perhaps you know evolution of the brand.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: It it could be anything, but it will it will identify all of that.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've got two more questions.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: One's a serious question, one's a fun question.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Fun question first.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: You've told me some of the things that you had to do to get a shot.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: What's the most ridiculous?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh god, okay.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've done a lot of different shoots.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I do remember at some point when I was helping you, I had to hold on to the back of your trousers while you were leaning off a stepladder over a wall.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: That was pretty cool.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Dedication.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know, I remember.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, there you go.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: You've been in the frame.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have been in the frame.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I was just outside of the frame.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's it.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, that happened.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and also similarly to that, I had to um go up in a cherry picker, uh, to which was really high, um, to the top of Blending Palace and um do some do some shots for them because there was a whole restoration project that I was covering um for the palace and and for a massive construction company, and that was a really lovely project to work on.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh I'm afraid of heights.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So this was a bit of a challenge for me, and uh and the only thing that made it slightly more palatable was the lovely fireman who helped me up there.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that was brilliant.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, really good fun, and actually what an amazing thing to do, you know, what a great day at work.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm gonna ask you another question.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is so this is a little bonus question.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Of all the years that you've been doing this, then with all the different risks that you've had to take to get the shot, is there one image?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter whether it's in the studio, whether it's on location, yeah.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: What is there an image that you just go, if you had to pick your favourite one?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: The one that you go, oh, I know which one it is.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Go on.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well one shot of your entire career where you go, that's the one.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it wasn't one shot, but yes.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was 400 shots.
• 20:40
  unknown: But really?
• 20:42
  unknown: Yeah.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that another misconception that you think people get?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I know we're going back onto photography and it's not, you know, we are not a photography podcast.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not, it's not a photography podcast.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: But do you think people realise that when they go, wow, that shot's fantastic, do they realise that they you might have had to take 600 photographs to get that one shot?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, this is why we're doing between the briefs, you see.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: So what's the photograph?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that people can well, wait a minute, so that people can understand what goes on between like somebody coming up with a hare-brained idea and then getting to that final outcome.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you just asked some, you just answered my final question.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what's the biggest thing people never see between the brief and the final photograph?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Everything else that happens in between the brief.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like the 400 shots to get that shot.
• 21:23
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, no, the the 400 shots was um was for a lovely homeware brand that I worked with for many, many years, and um, and they wanted to create a really unique piece of art actually, um, for a massive exhibition that they had in Frankfurt.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um we worked with them, we created and but and had built a specialist um fish tank, basically, not with fish in it.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this was brought to the studio, and then we had um a chap come and drill some copper pipes.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then get an air compressor so that he could actually submerge it.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we could push air through the copper pipes and it would make all those natural bubbles that you get come from.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us what the product was or can you tell us the company that it was, the client?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the the client was Robert Welsh.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was a really amazing um sort of you know job to work on and creative brief.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And to have that kind of creative freedom is is a really beautiful thing to have because they had a vision and we worked together to make that happen.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: But it took a process and it was uh a methodology behind it, you know, there was planning involved, there was a lot of um backwards and forwards to understand how it was going to look at the end of it.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we planned out the scenes, we planned out how we wanted this massive image to look at the end.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was a 16-meter-long wall.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: So what was what was so fish tank pipes?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: What was so what was the sort of uh image supposed to represent?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: What was it supposed to look like?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was supposed to be an underwater world of all of their products coming to life as if they lived naturally under the sea.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how I don't know if you're allowed to do it, but you know, if if you can show that image for our viewers or your viewers, put it up on the screen.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so basically this image uh was created over with you know with about 400 shots and we submerged all the pieces of cutlery.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: How long did it take?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: To shoot it, only actually took about three or four days.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, okay.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was quite a quick shoot.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was about a 15-day edit um to get it all.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And they wanted it to be authentic, and I think this is another part of the conversation around how we move forwards with things because I think there is room to say that there will be brands that value authenticity still and want to be able to say, We we actually made this, this is the real thing, it's not AI generated.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: We can, you know, people are still going to want to work with it.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be both, it'll be a mix.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but this brand definitely value authenticity, they use natural inspiration for their products, right?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: So their products are inspired by nature, by shells, by you know, sort of sea, by all of that kind of stuff, and um, and so for them, having things done authentically in camera as close to the real thing as possible was really valuable to them.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and um and it was yeah, a really fun thing to work on.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds wicked.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, loved it.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right, Steph, quick fire questions.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Holy cow.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Holy cow.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're gonna subject every guest to this, I believe.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's only fair that you go first.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, thanks.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Early start or late finish?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Early start.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Big idea or meticulous planning?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Both.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Gun to the head, which one?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Big idea.
• 24:56
  unknown: Okay.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Natural light or studio light?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a studio girl.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Coke or Coke Zero?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh wine?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: To be fair, I think that's probably why you need to ask your clients which ones that you would like them to bring.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think they go with Apple or Android.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Apple.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're a creative, of course.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sorry.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Big budget or creative freedom?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, I know there's supposed to be quickfire, but I think creative freedom will always win for me because I'm really passionate about it.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: But nobody's gonna say no to a big budget, are they?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: You could have creative freedom if you had a big budget, couldn't you?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: You could have both.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: You see, I could say both of that.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: What's your biggest creative pet peeve?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Just one more.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Can we do just one more?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just one more shot.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you work into the evening.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: What's one word you'd ban from a creative brief forever?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Flexible.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't mean about how far I can stretch.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, what's the most ridiculous thing you've ever done to get a photograph?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Although we have had this conversation, but I'm not sure going up in a cherry pickle with a fireman.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Is quite ridiculous.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's alright.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's ridiculous.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Go on.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um so two locations, but the the worst one was uh where, or the best one, whatever you, however you look at it, had to put my hassle blad into um oh my camera, into a river in Scotland to get the shot with the model, and it was very, very fast flowing.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to just tell your um clients how much a camera like that could cost?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: New, second hand?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably about 25,000, something along those lines.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you put it near a river?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: In a river.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: In a river.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: What, in a plastic box, in a watertight container?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, on a tripod, in a river, with me in waders, um, going in to get the shot, lay down, looking across at a model who was prancing across some stepping stones.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: How did you manage that?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have a monophily?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: God, I bet you were finishing that shoot.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't tell my insurance company.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I did afterwards, but yeah.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Final question.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Final roundup.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone's listening to this thinking, actually, I have an absolutely no idea whether my own brand is working visually, what should they do?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the first step would be to download the um visual identity review.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, have a look through it, you know, have a go at the questions, see what answers come back, and just see where your brand is at the moment, or your company, or your you know, you know, your personal brand if it's about you.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's all relative and it's all relevant.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: So have a have a go at that, see where you sit, and then you know, if you want to discuss things further, you can always have a coffee with me.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh yeah, just have a go.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you believe that visual identity in this industry is something that's commonly overlooked when it comes to customer service?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's one of the most valuable aspects of customer service, actually, that a lot of brands don't necessarily value as much as they should.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's every image, every design decision that you make as a brand either makes the customer journey easier or harder.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: It makes them want to buy from you more or buy from you less.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Trust you more, trust you less.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're seeing a pattern here.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, that's because visuals aren't just decoration, they're communication, they're how you're getting your message out there to your potential customer, and that is where the trust comes in.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, hugely valuable.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And once you see how valuable that is, you can't unsee it.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's sort of the point of this show is is addressing all of that.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, that's really what we're talking about here.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: What about scale?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything that sort of you know, could a big organization come and have a conversation with you?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Smaller of organizations, obviously, maybe startups?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, have you sort of catered for all of them at some point?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because Robert Welch is a pretty big company, isn't it?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I yeah, work with all sorts of levels of companies and organisations to be honest, and also, you know, uh both directly with them and through agencies as well.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it really depends on the requirement of the company, right?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but yeah, of course, you know, um individual independent companies need a lot of hand holding, they need a lot of guidance, um, but equally, larger companies uh quite often have in-house teams of certain degrees, but they might be missing have a missing link.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that was gonna be my next point.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: So presumably, you know, you've been in the industry for well over well, I've known you a long time, but well over 20 years.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that the contacts that you've made, the experiences you've had, whether it's been working because I know that you've been overseas for shoots before, you know, at some point you're gonna be like, Do you know what?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I might not be able to do that, but I know a guy, and you can bring in that experience and those people where you can say, I can get this job done, I can give you the result that you want, but you're not just gonna be looking at a commercial photograph, you're gonna be looking at, oh, we're gonna be looking at social media, we're gonna be looking at uh reels and video click and SEO, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: So just talk talk to me about that a little bit, you know, how how somebody might just not think, oh, I haven't really looked at the big picture when we're coming back to the sort of visual identity about the whole brand.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, it it's all it's all important, as we were saying earlier, you know, it's not just about a logo or a or a this or a that or whatever, but you might need a designer, you might need um help with, yeah, you might need models, you might need locations, exactly, all of it really.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's all part of the world that you know I've been in for such a long time that it's something the black book of contact, say Steph.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, that's another book, but yeah, no, that that's the that's the valuable thing about you know working with amazing people.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've worked with some really talented creatives and you know, just people in the industry for a long time, set builders, um, you know, stylists, all of these people are what make campaigns successful.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's not any one person, but it's having the right people, and it's having, you know, the the kind of um relationship with those people to be able to say, okay, this is this client, they they have a semi-brief, but they need help with it.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Let's work together on it and let's create something really amazing.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's part of the magic of the creative world, isn't it?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Steph.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks very much for being on the show today, Ollie.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've really appreciated it.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're very welcome.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Steph.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's been good fun.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's been great.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us on the show today.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe if you haven't already.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I look forward to seeing you on the next one.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: So that's ciao for now.