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Winter Warm-Up Wrap-Up: Cardinals have found their direction · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Ten, ten whole episodes of Cardinal Territory and Trevor and
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I have not been canceled yet, so let's keep it
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: going and welcome back to the show. We are recording
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: this on Monday, January twentieth, fresh off the three day
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: adventure that is Winter Warm Up. Trevor, how was your
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: experience being back at Bush Stadium, Katie?
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I pumped up. It was so great and the exact
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: opposite of being canceled. I know, you had people come
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: up to you. I had people come up to me
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: today this morning telling me that they enjoyed our podcast,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: our show. So yeah, I'm I couldn't be better, Like,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: I had a really good time. What about you?
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Seamen. You know, we're just walking through Ballpark Village
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: have some fans stop and said they love the show,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: and I was like, mine, I'm sure. So it's awesome.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: We talked about it a lot that early fan support
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: has helped us and hasn't been easy to start a
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: show in what has been probably the most inactive period
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: in Cardinals history in the last ten years. But hey,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: we're doing it and we actually have new things to
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: talk about. A lot went down at Winter warmups. So
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: from John Mozaelak speaking about the Nolan Arnatto's trade no
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: trade maybe situation on Saturday, Sonny Gray, I thought was fantastic.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: If you have not listened to what he had to
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: say about why he came back to Saint Louis and
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: making sure everyone's going in one direction. That was a
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: great press conference on Saturday. Brendan Donovan, Mason, Wynn Jordan
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Walker was awesome. And then we heard from Ollie Marmel
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: and both build with Junior and build with the third
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: today and I thought, you know, everyone said what they
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: needed to and I thought everyone was pretty transparent. But
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: my big takeaway from the thirty plus interviews we did
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: over the last three days was that the Cardinals finally
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: have a direction and they're committing to it. And most notably,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: the biggest change from October to January is everyone seems
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: to be on board, from ownership to the minor leagues.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Everyone is on the same message of they have to
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: get better at drafting and developing and they have to
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: get more out of their young players. So I thought
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: that was pretty interesting to hear.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's I agree, it's it's interesting to
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: hear them be transparent and really kind of lay that out.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: I know behind the scenes, that's been what a lot
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: of people have been talking about and and for us
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: kind of wondering what exactly their priority is and and
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: how are they going to commit to that. So to
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: hear you know, the ownership come out and really just
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: clearly defined like, yeah, we we have fallen behind in
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: a certain area, but we've we recognized that and going forward,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: we're going to make some changes. And to me, like,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: you can't can't go back, you know, can't go in
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: the past. We can't take time back. So there's not
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: a whole lot of use and really dwelling on that,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: but I'm excited to see the progress that's made going forward.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, you think about the Saint Louis Cardinals and
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: and for me being here this week and this weekend
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: was such a great reminder as to the nostalgia and
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: the history that this organization, organization has. It truly is
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: one of the best baseball franchises in all of Major
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: League Baseball. And if they're gonna go after something and
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: they're gonna make changes and commit to a new era,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: you better believe that they're gonna do it in a
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: way that represents that cardinal brand. So I think it's
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: a great time to be excited, certainly this week since
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: we I mean, they call it the warm up. That's
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: not necessarily a warm but it is a warm up
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: in the sense that we're getting excited for the season ahead.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: And you know, all all of these uncertain things that
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: we've been talking about for the last few weeks. Now
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: we have some clarity now, I mean. And then on
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: top of that, you mentioned it. The players, they're all
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: in alignment. They think we have an opportunity to hear.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: We're not throwing in the towel. We're coming to play.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Let the kids play. And I think they're going to
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: surprise some people. And I'm on that train. I'm on
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: the positive train, Katie.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: You're ready to be surprised. Okay, Well, I think we
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: need to get like eighty five percent of the fan
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: base on your side, because, like I said, we read
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the comments. I've read the athletic comments as well. I
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: wouldn't say it's the most positive bunch out there, but
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I will say I felt a different sense of energy
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: just throughout the weekend. And I think when we're talking
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: about what Cardinals fans want. You know this, Trevor, I
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: don't say this to you. It's one of the most
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: passionate fan bases in all the sports. And if you
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: give this fan base that is smart and knowledgeable and
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: understands the game of baseball a direction, and you give
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: them a clear path to what you're trying to do
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: as an organization, I think they respond to it, and
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I think they'd show up. And yes, there is a
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: lot of frustration. There's a lot of apathy just based
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: on how this offseason has gone the last two seasons,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: not making the postseason. Fans frustrated fans are a little
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: bitter right now. I get it, I understand. But the
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: thing that stood out to me was just how consistent
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: the messaging was through and through. And I'll read some
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: of the quotes that stood out to me throughout the weekend.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Studdy Gray, if you get caught in the middle, what
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: direction are you going? I believe you have to pick
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: a direction, you have to wholeheartedly believe in that direction,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: and you have to go for it. And that I
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: think was embodied very well by the organization over the weekend.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: It's so clear that they trust these young players, and
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: they want to give them this runway and they believe
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: in them, and you can feel those young players get
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: excited about it, like Brendan Donovan is excited to maybe,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: you know, potentially lead this new core of a great
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Cardinals team if they play well. This could be Lars
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Newbar's team if he figures out a way to stay
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: healthy and performs. Jordan Walker after then his press conference,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I walked up there and I said, Jordani really fired
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: me up because he was talking about all the changes
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: he made. It was a different Jordan Walker in terms
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: of his enthusiasm and was back. He was more relaxed,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: more Jordan, and we hadn't seen that in a while.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: So you go down the list and it's clear that
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: these younger guys believe in themselves. Mason Wynn is ready
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: to be like the next face of the Saint Louis Cardinals.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: And when you have a group that trusts themselves anchored
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: by a veteran pitching staff, you know, I'm not going
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: out here and saying, oh, the Cardinals are going to
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: be World Series Champions twenty twenty five, But I no
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: longer feel as anxious about if they can actually put
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: together an entertaining product. Again, I don't know if they're
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: going to win, but I do think that the way
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: that this group has bought into each other, it's and
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: banded behind guys that have chosen to stay like Sunny Gray,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: like Wilson Contrera's that's exciting. And if you're looking, if
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: you're a fan, looking for something to buy into or
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: being positive about, you can take the energy that was
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: here today Sunday, Saturday, that was consistent, and maybe that
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: gets a little bit more excited.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Heck, yeah, I agree. I mean there's so many good
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: points there. I mean thinking about you know, just the positivity,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: the energy for the team. That's what we want this
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: time of year. Hopefully most teams have that similar mindset.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: But it was good and I'm I'm like you, I agree.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Listening to Jordan Walker and Mason Win and Brendan Donovan
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: and looking at the potential with large new bar, I'm
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: really bought in to this lineup. The big question mark
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: for me will be the pitching side, and specifically on
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: the starting pitching. I think there's potentially, you know, starting
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: pitching is hard, I mean, and it's a long season.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: There's gonna be injuries, There's gonna be changes that happen
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: down the line, and so really getting a feel for
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: the type of depth and the quality of arms and
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: and innings that are gonna be thrown out there every
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: single night is yet to be answered. But I'm I'm
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: excited for these young position players. I think there's gonna
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: be if not this year, I mean certainly this year
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: is gonna be really building block. And when we think
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: about the Cardinals going forward over the next three to
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: five years, these key pieces are going to emerge this year.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: We're going to know who the players are that are
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: going to be a part of the latter going up
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: and that are going to continue to stick around as
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: this team continues to build. But you know, one starting
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: pitcher I am excited about. We got to sit with
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: our friend Quinn Matthews at the Writers' Dinner on Sunday night, which,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: for those of you that missed it, it was such
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: a great evening. Not yeah, it was. It was incredible
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: and a huge testament to you know, the work that
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: the writers do. And I think Saint Louis is a
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: lucky town. We've mentioned it multiple times, but one of
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: the only two Writers Dinners that still remain and it's
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: a huge testament to the work that the media and
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: the reporters and all of you writers do as a
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: conduit from the fans or to the organization, and that's
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: what makes Saint Louis so fun. But we got to
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: sit with our friend Quinn Matthews, and you know, when
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: we're thinking about this development developmental process, that's what I'm
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: most excited about to see players like Quinn Matthews get
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: access to the resources to become the best versions of themselves.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I Quinn. He also blew me away in
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: terms of what he did during his press conference. I
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: was so entertained. And it's just interesting that we bring
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: up pitching here and this is the perfect segue to
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: our next Our next topic. Mo talked a lot about
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Nolan Arnado, and we'll get to what he said about Nolan,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: but one of the things that he said that's different
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: from what we've previously been talking about is if he
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: can't trade Nolan Arnado, he's not likely. It doesn't feel
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: the pressure that he might have earlier in the off
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: season to offload or trim other areas of the roster,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: and one area that he specifically does not want to
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: touch is his starting pitching. He likes the depth, and
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: you know, you think about the for sure starters, Sonny Gray, Miles, Michaelis,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Eric Fetti. You can maybe put Steven Matts and Matt's there,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: he can maybe go to the bullpen. He's kind of
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: a wildcard. But then you have Andre Pilante, Michael McGreevey
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: will come up and fight for a spotton rotation. And
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: then you have a bunch of fringe guys like Zach
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Thompson will be there, Matthew libertoor is going to come
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: the spring and stretch out as a starter. You have
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Quinn Matthews, you have Tank Hens. That's exciting and it's
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: you know, I think for such a long time because
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: this is just how the messaging was from inside the
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: organization and various people that we've talked to, is the
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Cardinals couldn't trade Nolan. They were going to have to
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: trade someone else and one of these pictures was going
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: to have to go, or maybe some other leaver was
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: going to have to go. But the fact that both
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Mo and Bildewett Junior said that no, this is no
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: longer an area where if we don't move Nolan, we
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: don't have to trim more of the payroll. I thought
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: that was encouraging. It's probably the only positive payroll messaging
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: that we've had in about six months. So that's that's
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: fun for me to hear, I think, because I think
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: there are some very promising pieces in the organization and
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: it's just a matter of getting them to click. And
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: like you said, this is the year that we're going
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: to figure out what those building blocks are. Now. The
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: hinge in the plan here will be if they can
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: actually in d trade Ronados. So talk to mo on Saturday.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: It was about thirty minutes, and I thought, in terms
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: of how John Moseailic's press conferences usually go, this was
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: one of his better ones. He was pretty transparent. He
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: did not really beat herund the bush. He hasn't made
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: a single move since the offseason. He thinks it's weird.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Don't worry though. He is still trying priority one, two
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: and three to trade Nolan Ronado. He said it's a
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: top priority for the organization and myself, so I'll be
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: laser focused on it until it's not h Yeah, Trevor
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: certainly sounds like John Mozaelok wants Nolan Arnado out of here,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: and I again, maybe not necessarily anything just Nolan as
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: a person, but this just goes back to creating that
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: runway for the young players. It's just a matter of
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: if they're going to be able to or not.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I agree. I mean to that, to that level,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: it seems more than likely that he does get moved.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm surprised that it hasn't happened so far,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: but that's clearly their top priority and if everything hinges
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: on that transaction, they're going to do everything everything in
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: their power to get that done. So I hope it
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: happens sooner than later. Again, just an additional clarity, coming
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: off the high of the winter warm up and all
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: the excitement, if we can continue that momentum and if
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Ernato getting him moved is a part of that momentum,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: you know, we're gonna have a lot of excitement over
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: these next few weeks before we go down to spring training.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: And it's fascinating, right because they're essentially pretty much in
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: a gridlock until Alex Bragman signs, and Mo alluded to
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: this without necessarily commenting in Sant Alex Bergman out right
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: he said, the reason why this has been slow most
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: likely has things to do with the free agent market.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: So to break it down, Alex Fragman, top third basement
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: available in free agency, still hasn't signed. He has a
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Scott Boris client, and Scott Boris has no problem taking
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: negotiations into spring, even March. And the Cardinals are kind
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: of at the mercy here because it's not like they
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: have not tried to make deals. We know about one
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: that didn't go through, but there are other teams interested
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: in Ronado. This is a two way street, though he
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: has to want to go there, so it's it's never
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: been an easy situation. I think everyone just kind of
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: assumed if the trade was going to happen, it was
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: would have happened by now. And it's a little weird
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: that we're sitting here on January twentieth and not one
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: single move has been made and Nolan is still a Cardinal,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: and both sides are preparing for a reality that he
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: comes back. It's not guaranteed. John Mozelax said on Saturday
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: that he would give the odds a flip of a coin,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: So that's I'll give most some credit here. That's hard
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: to plan one fifty percent, you're going one way fifty
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: percent the other, and the Cardinals virtually here have no
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: control over the situation anymore. You're waiting for Alex Bregman,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: or you're waiting for a team that Nolan wants to
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: go to to call. Those things are all intertwined, so
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: it's a little bit of a mess. We did clear
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: up again though, that they don't necessarily have to trim
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: payroll if they can't move the remainder. Seventy four million
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: dollars on are not a salary, but it will impact
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: at bats that they promised and they'd like to give
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't say promised, they would like to give two
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: guys like Nolan Gorman, Thomas, j C. Brendan Donovan. You know,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they'll find spots for Donnie because he's a
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: super utility guy. But it's just going to create this
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: log jam, and that will be interesting to see how
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: they navigate that. I mean, think about it, Trevor. If
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: you're a young player and you know, you want to
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: figure out what you have in this year, in this
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: building block year, and you're kind of also in a
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: paradox of maybe I'll be the starting third baseman or
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: maybe I'll have to pivot somewhere else. That's challenging to
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: prepare for to as you head in the spring.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: It is challenging. But I think, you know, going back
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: to the free agent landscape, that's unfortunately just the reality
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: of Major League Baseball right now. And it's been this
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: trend where free agents, especially high value for agents, are
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: signing later and later, and that has the ripple effect
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: down onto other players. And like I said, it's the reality.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: So as a player, as a representation on the agent side,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: you have to be informing players of this reality so
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: that they can prepare themselves for it. And you know,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: that's why as athletes we get the opportunities we do,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: because we're able to adjust into these types of situations.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, if we were talking fifteen twenty
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: years ago, where things were a little bit more traditional
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: players were signed at at least two to three weeks
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: at a minimum before going into camp and you were
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: able to play on ahead, that's just not the reality today.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: And so yeah, I mean, if you want to play
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: in this league right now, you have to be able
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: to come in and make adjustments on the fly, and
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day. I mean, those are
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: the guys that rise to the top and take advantage
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: of those opportunities.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't believe we're three weeks to the date
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: of pitchers and catchers reporting, or at least us going
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: to spring training to get ready for report day, and
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: there are so many free agents that are still unsigned.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, Anthony Santander just signed today with Toronto. It's
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: strange because I feel like, in you know, a decade earlier,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: by January first, baseball was pretty much wrapped up. You
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: knew who was going and where, and you had your roster.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: And it's definitely not like that anymore. And as you
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: can see for the Cardinals, obviously, it's very much impacted
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: their off season. I think from a transaction standpoint, if
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Nolan Arnatto Jes stay in Saint Louis, all that will
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: really mean is that the Cardinals won't go out and
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: be able to add to their roster, so they won't
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: be cutting back anymore. But you know, John Mozelek said
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: multiple times he's looking to add some bullpen help, potentially
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: maybe a right handed bench back with some slug He
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: probably is not going to be able to have the
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: payroll flexibility to go get that because they will be
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: holding on to Nolan's contract, but at least they would
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be subtracting from the roster more. I think that
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: would just really leave a bad taste in fans mouse
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: if they did that.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean another point, you know that really
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: kind of shakes this out as time goes on. The
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: other component that you have to pay attention to is
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: as teams get into camp, like today for example, and
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: being here at the Winner warm up, we're very excited
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: about the team and the players that we have. But
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: two to three weeks into spring training, those players that
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: you had excitement about today, after you see some reps,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: your excitement might wiane a little bit. And certainly that
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: happens the further we get into the season. So yeah,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: although a transaction may not happen as a fan or
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: as a player as early as we might like, it
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: is a long season. There are going to be multiple
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: opportunities or throughout these first couple of months for players
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: to get moved around. In additions to take place, I
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: mean you mentioned it, there's still a lot of free
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: agents out there, and the probability of those free agents
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: being signed by the time we're starting up spring training
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: is pretty low. So if the Cardinals do have a
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: delay in moving Eronato and that happens to come to
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: fruition farther along than we anticipate a flip of a
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: coin and maybe that coin it spins around for a
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: little while and then finally lands and we get our
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: we get our clarity. There's gonna be some guys that
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: are going to be available that the Cardinals can add
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: at that point. Yeah.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I mean just last year in spring, they were about
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: three weeks in they signed Brandon Crawford and it turned
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: it out. You know, they did need him in the
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: first half. I don't know about the second half, but
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: they did need him in the first half. So we're
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: riding the optimism train for a while for as long
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: as we can. Just because it's been stagnant pretty much
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: the entire off season doesn't mean it will be forever.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: And at least we know that the Cardinals do not
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: feel like they absolutely have to keep cutting payroll. There
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: is a quote from Mo when they're saying he doesn't
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: just want to strip this down to get to a number,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: and he no longer has that pressure from ownership and
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: we're going to get into ownership quickly after hours.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Do you like spending an hour on grocery shopping?
• 18:56
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• 18:56
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• 19:07
  Speaker 3: I stack my Hungry Root box with items like gluten free,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: dairy free blueberry waffles for breakfasts, shrimp vegiebowles for lunch,
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  Speaker 3: and a little filet mignon with potatoes and broccolini for dinner.
• 19:17
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• 19:19
  Speaker 4: paleo or I'm vegetarian, and they load up your car
• 19:22
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• 19:24
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• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, that was maybe the worst transition of all time.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: But however it's definitely better than last week because last
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: week I forgot to do it entirely. So baby steps. Anyway,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: thanks for the message from our friends at Hungry Root.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Like the guy said, you can go to hungryroot dot
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• 20:14
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  Speaker 1: your choice for life. Again, that's Hungry Root, and next week,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: hopefully I will do a lot better with that.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: I liked it. That was fun.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: I'm trying not to laugh, but okay, anyway, next one,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: let's talk ownership. We uh we talked to build Awit
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Junior and build a with the third Monday morning. And
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: I'll preface with this. It is not often that an
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: ownership of any MLB team or sports team in general
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: will willingly come out and talk to the media once
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: a year. The Duets do this twice to three times,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: and they do this every year at winter warm up.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: It is something that they are not required to do,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: but they feel obligated to do, and it was very
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: nice to see that even in the midst of a
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: very frustrating season or off season and a time where
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: they're not the most popular people in Saint Louis right now,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: they still shut up and did it. So that kind
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: of transparency, I think does go a little bit the
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: fact that they put themselves in a position to talk
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: to media in an open forum situation. There are a
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: lot of owners who wouldn't do that, so I commend
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: them for that. And I thought the messaging was much
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: better than the end of the year press conference they did.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: I understand low bar it was not a good press conference,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: but again it goes back to the same messaging and
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: hearing Builduwitt Junior talk about the importance of getting back
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: to a drafting and developing team. That's what the Cardinals
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: were so good at for the overwhelming majority point of
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: his tenure. He's been an the owner of the Cardinals
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: for almost thirty years now, and for about twenty five
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: of those years, the Cardinals excelled at drafting and developing players.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: And of course we know that the downfalls in player
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: development over the last five years or so, and he
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: was candid about that. You know, both him and build
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: with the third talked about the importance of having generating young,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: homegrown talent consistently and then supplementing it with either a
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: trade or a free agent signing as being the best
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: possible way to instill long term success in an organization.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: And for a very long time the Cardinals did that
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: and had long term success, and I thought that was interesting.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I also thought it was interesting what they said about payroll,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: and we know payroll is going down right now Percott's contracts.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: The Cardinals are projected to start the year with the
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: sixteenth ranked payroll at about one hundred and forty one million dollars,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: UH far cry from where they were, and build Awit
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Junior talked about being in a mid market. Obviously, the
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Cardinals are not going to spend like the Dodgers. Nobody
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: is spending like the Dodgers. It's a ridiculous different tangent
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: though for another day. But what they are doing and
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: what they have done, is they've punched above their weight.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: That's a phrase that John Mosalla says a lot in
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: terms of their market size. But what happened was, as
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: we know, they spent all this money on improving the
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: major league club and these free agent signings and not
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: seeing the success that they wanted to with the major leagues,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: ultimately not seeing postseason wins, and it ultimately became unsustainable.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: So while they are shifting a lot of their money
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: back into player development, there were also some concerns about
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: TV revenue. The Cardinals step of twenty five percent pay
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: cut and their rights fees for next year or this year,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: and their restructure deal with Fandual Sports Midwest, there will
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: be decline in ticket sales and gate revenue. They are
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: concerned about that. That's been a legitimate, uh, you know,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: a legitimate concern for how they're going to spend their money.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: What was an interesting comment to me was hearing build
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Await Junior say it's a revenue game. You know, the
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: more money that you are investing in the club, the
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: more money you'll have to spend. It's a cycle. Right now,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: they're at a part in the cycle that's not very kind.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not I'm not sure how they're going
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: to find a way to entice fans to come back
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: to the ballpark, but I will say at least their
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: messaging has been consistent on what they want the organization
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: to go back to Trevor, your homegrown Cardinal, I actually
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: told a hilarious story that I did not know on
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: how you were drafted by the Cardinals, but you know
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: how important it was coming through that system of drafting
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: developing good talent.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Certainly, I felt very fortunate with my time that I
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: had to come through the minor leagues and through the organization.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: I felt like it was very impactful to my development
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: as a player, but then also as a person. They
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: had some very strong pieces along the way. I mean,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: and to start it all off, I was drafted by
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: a scout that only saw me pitch two thirds of
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: an inning, and I think that says a lot to
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: that team, that front office team that was in charge
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: of the draft at that time, for them to have
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: faith and be convinced to take a player with basically
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: zero data. So they were doing something very unique and
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: I would love sleep to see them get back to
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: that with with the draft. And I'm not very familiar,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: so I can't speak too heavily on that part exactly,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: but I can't speak to the development side. And over
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: the later part of my career, you know, I bounced
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: around to some different organizations. You know, I'll point out
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: the two organizations, one being the San Francisco Giants and
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: then in contrast, the Detroit Tigers. The San Francisco Giants
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: being a team that is a big market team, they
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: have invested heavily into their player development and I got
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: to see that firsthand. I got to see these incredible
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: facilities and resources that these players had. It was actually,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: you know, as a as a player that came up
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: in a different era where it was a little bit
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: more hard nos you were happy to get your your
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: ham sandwich and your bowl of soup that you're lucky
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: if there was any noodles left in the broth by
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: the end of the day to seeing now where there's
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: five chefs and basically every player has their own program
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: and their whole team of people ensuring that each day
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: is as productive it can that can be for that player.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, we've just seen a complete shift in the
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: game for the better. And and I pointed out the
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Detroit Tigers in an organization that I think reminds me
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: of a lot of what the Cardinals are hoping to
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: do and making some changes. I don't think the Cardinals
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: were as far behind as Detroit was at the time
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: when they they started to make some changes in their
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: front office and organizationally, but they've made the changes quickly
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: and now we've seen the success that Detroit has had,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: especially over this past year making it to the postseason
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: and and just being on that team and seeing the
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: players that have seen this transition take place, how excited
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: they are. And we know with these young players in
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: today's game, players talk right, and players talk, they compare, Hey,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: what do you guys doing? What resources do you have?
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: And when you feel like, you know, you get a
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: little bit of fomo. If somebody else on the other
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: side of the fence has something that you've never heard of,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: maybe we'll asking, well, why don't we have that. So
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: if I'm a young player in the Cardinals organization, if
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: I'm a player going into this draft and you're keeping
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: a pulse on what's happening in Saint Louis, I mean,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: maybe you're starting to get excited if the Cardinals select you.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. I'll read some comments from Bildiwitt Junior
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: today that I think really sum up the self recognition
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: finally that this organization has had. And when you are
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: an organization like the Saint Louis Cardinals, and you have
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: been once championed as really pioneers of modernizing player development,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: and then you fall so far behind. The first question
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: is how, And I think they were honest and they said,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: you know, we've tried to keep up and punch above
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: our weight class in trying to spend and it didn't
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: work for us. So we're going to go back to
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: what we're good at. And here here's the quote that
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: really grabbed my attention from Buildowitt Junior. He said, we
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: do what we think is best for the team current
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: in future. Obviously, fans have their own opinion. We've got
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: wonderful fans and they're knowledgeable. I think a great majority
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: of them understand what we're doing and improve of it.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Others don't. They think maybe we should go spend money
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: and see if we can get it back that way,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: but it's hard to do. You have big markets that
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: are going to do what they do, and we're not
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: in a position to compete at that level of payroll.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: There is a time to increase payroll and a time
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: to build. We're trying to balance that so we have
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to have competitive teams every year. Clearly the
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Cardinals think it is time to build. And there are
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: so many different factors going into this. Because we've talked
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: a lot about the reset, the big resets, all we
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: talked about all winter because nothing else to but the
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: reset doesn't just pertain to the major league roster. We've
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: spoken at length to the Cardinals overhauling their player development system.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: They've brought in several new staff members, several new directors,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: several new coordinators, filling positions that they haven't had in
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: over a decade in order to jumpstart this. It's him
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Bloom's baby, it's his responsibility. They're also resetting payroll, They're
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: resetting their revenue deals, they're TV deals, They're resetting the
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: game day experience. They everything about the Saint Louis Cardinals
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: is just a hold on start out out of it
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: is not going well. We need to figure it out.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: And it's almost like a clean slate. That's how I'm
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: looking at twenty twenty five after these conversations. It's a
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: clean slate. And where I think fans get mad or
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: frustrated is the person in charge of this clean slate
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: is John Moza Lock and I think there's a little
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: bit of a lot of mo fatigue out there in
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: the city of Saint Louis. But again, I understand why
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: they're doing it this way. What I what I really
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: like and about the timing of the situation is that
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: it just makes sense because come twenty twenty six, you're
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: going to have a brand new front office and him
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Bloom deserves to know what he's working with when he
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: takes over. So this year, the Cardinals are going to
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: figure out what they're working with and hopefully they have
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: a lot better product that they think that the same
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: level product that they think they do. Hopefully that comes
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to fruition. So come twenty twenty six, this clean slate
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: has already allowed the next generation of the next era
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: of Cardinals to take.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Off very well, said Katie time a best that was
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: I imagine myself like if I put myself in the
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Dewett family shoes like it's I obviously have would not
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: would have no problem spending somebody else's money. You know,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: let's empty the coffers, let's bring let's bring in Pete Alonzo,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Blake Snell, let's trade let's get Max Schurzer, Let's let's
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: just go all over.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Very Dodgers of you. This is very Dodgers' mentality.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: I think. I think it's easy to say that, and
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people would love to dream
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: that and imagine where that's where that's a reality. Well,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: and uh, you know out west that it is. It
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: is a reality. So and I guess up in the
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Northeast and somewhat of a reality also. But you know,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: I think that the DeWitt family has this long history
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: of being calculated in their decision making and they they're
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: they're successful for a reason. And uh again, I can't
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: speak to the implications of the how how I would
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: do operations from a financial standpoint, maybe not what wouldn't
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: last long a fun few years at least, who knows.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so, like I said, well said by you,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: and I think that's a really good way to picture
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: this year.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Well, thankfully we have things to talk about, things to
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: get excited for. Yeah again, three weeks before I'm down
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: in Jupiter and baseball season is underway. But it definitely
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: felt like minus the fact that it was freezing, it
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: was like so painfully cold, it felt like baseball. I
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: felt when I was walking past Bush stadium and I
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: was going into the media room, I was like, yeah,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: it's been a minute and it's nice to be back.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: So we're getting closer, Cardinals fans. Baseball season is just
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: along the corner, and at least we know moving forward
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: what direction the organization is at and as of right now,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: how much everyone is on board. You can follow us
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: on the car Territory on Twitter, like, and subscribe to
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: our page on YouTube. Find us on Spotify Apple. I
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: will do my best to do it at read correctly.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: That's gonna be my goal for episode eleven. But hey,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: nobody's perfect, and as we have seen on the show
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: many times, you and I are no exception.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you everybody for again for the positive energy
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: giving us feedback. Continue to do that. I mean, I'm pumped.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: One thing's for certain. Katie and I are going nowhere
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: this year. We will be here talking about Yeah, we're
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: gonna be here. So you got that. Looks people should
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: be excited they have that to look forward to. I'm excited.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Cardinals could win seventy games, but you
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: got us, So there's always the positive. For Trevor Rosenthal,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I'm Katie. We will have another episode out for you
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: on Friday. Until then, stay safe, stay warm, and yeah,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: we'll talk soon.