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IntegratED's 7 Pathways to Student Engagement: Megan Diede & Kara Rigsby · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to edtech
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podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
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Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top edtech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
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and let's integrate this. Hey, welcome to the
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Integrate This at Tech podcast. I'm David Berner,
0:31
joined by co -host Jeremy Mikla. And today we
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have some awesome people that we met at ISTE
0:37
actually this last year. Megan Deedy and Kerry
0:41
Rigsby from Integrated. They have a company.
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And it's kind of funny because we didn't actually
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plan it. We just happened to be looking at TikTok
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and you had your stuff on there and you saw some
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of our stuff and we're like, hey, we should meet
0:55
up. So you can actually check out a short little
0:57
conversation of our time at ISTE together. If
1:02
you go to our YouTube channel or you can listen
1:03
on podcasts, too. But we want to just welcome
1:06
you to the podcast and we're happy to have you.
1:09
Thank you for having us. We're very excited for
1:11
this conversation. Okay, so we want to kind of
1:15
get started and talk just a little bit about
1:17
your journey because Integrated is something
1:19
that you're both you created and you're you're
1:22
doing it together and you're very involved in
1:23
that But let's just take a step back like before
1:27
that and Megan will maybe start with you What
1:30
were you doing before that? Leading up to this.
1:34
Yeah. Well, um, I was in the classroom I was
1:38
second grade teacher just living my best life
1:41
with those kids and uh raising children of my
1:45
own and kind of just getting into the art of
1:49
teaching right and just trying to figure out
1:51
what works best for myself as an educator and
1:55
what was working really well for them um and
1:58
just you know the day -to -day life of of teaching
2:01
And then I kind of got involved in our district
2:04
and was doing different work with developing
2:07
curriculum for science, did some things with
2:10
their literacy stuff, and it just kind of was
2:13
something that I just really got intrigued by.
2:15
So really involved with what I was doing in the
2:18
education space. Yeah, throwing it back that
2:21
far. That's a long time ago, but very similar
2:25
to Meg. I started off my teaching career in kindergarten
2:29
and had moved up to first grade and just similar,
2:33
just live in life as a primary educator. And
2:37
I too had been involved with some curriculum
2:40
work with our district and the university here
2:44
in Wyoming. And so that is kind of what started
2:47
the whole You know, the path to where we are
2:51
today, honestly, and yeah, it's nothing too crazy.
2:58
We are just two teachers living our best lives
3:00
in the classroom and doing a little extra curriculum
3:03
work for the district on the side. I think, though,
3:06
what had happened is that we didn't actually
3:08
know each other doing this curriculum work, nor
3:10
did we teach in the same grade, but we were in
3:12
the same building and. One day I was wanting
3:18
to run, right? I had two little children. I was
3:20
working full time and my husband was doing shift
3:22
work. And I was like, I think I should just start
3:24
running. That should help mentally. And so I
3:27
announced in the lounge of the teacher's lounge,
3:30
I said, does anybody want to start to run? And
3:32
no one said anything. It was dead quiet. And
3:36
poor Kara, she was like, I would help. I would
3:39
run. And so we just started meeting at the gym
3:42
and we started meeting every afternoon and just
3:46
started to run. And during that time, we had
3:49
a lot of conversation around families, getting
3:52
to know each other, definitely around work. It
3:55
didn't take very long to get into the work conversation.
3:59
And that's kind of how we kind of became best
4:02
friends in that space is a lot of running. I
4:06
did a lot of talking. Kara did a lot of listening.
4:10
So, yeah, so you can you can kind of say you
4:12
ran into each other almost, right? Yes. You're
4:17
so funny. Yeah. Thanks to my dad. But yeah, so
4:23
you you spent a lot of time, obviously, you mentioned
4:26
you were like working out together and then that
4:29
just turned into a lot of conversations. And
4:31
then you started to figure out like, oh, we could
4:33
actually make something of this. We have chemistry
4:36
together. We're talking about curriculum, things
4:37
we can do with curriculum. What was like in,
4:40
you know, we follow you on the different socials.
4:42
And if you're not everybody that's listening,
4:44
make sure you follow integrated on socials. But
4:47
the the content that you have now, I mean, you've
4:50
been traveling around. You've been doing a lot
4:52
of these seminars and things like that during
4:54
the summer in various states. But we're what
4:57
about at the beginning, though, like what was
4:59
the first thing where you were like, hey, this
5:01
is going to be an event that we're going to tackle
5:03
and we're going to we're going to start this
5:05
thing. Oh, well. Before that, even the one event
5:09
that kind of tipped us off even to even thinking
5:12
that we could do this, we were nominated and
5:16
then accepted into a teacher leadership academy
5:19
together, which does not happen very often, where,
5:24
you know, friends, teammates get accepted together.
5:26
And then after our work there, we're like, we
5:28
could, we could do something with this. And then
5:32
One of the requirements was for us to share our
5:35
work that we did with the Academy and Meg was
5:39
like, let's apply to this conference. And we
5:43
did not know that this conference was actually
5:45
a national conference and it turned out to be
5:48
the Innovative School Summit. And so we skip
5:52
straight over, you know, district, local, state,
5:56
and went right into the national not knowing.
5:59
You know, that was really great. I think it was
6:01
a perfect opportunity. We were very small town
6:05
live in Wyoming. And to be honest with you, I
6:07
always thought that speakers in education that
6:11
got on main stage or did the work that we're
6:12
doing now. They were like the chosen ones. Somehow
6:15
they were just like handpicked and then they
6:16
were the people. So when we first started this
6:19
work we just really our goal was just to share
6:21
it with as many educators as we could because
6:23
what we were doing in our classrooms were really
6:25
working not only for the students but for ourselves.
6:28
We were feeling more joy. I was excited to go
6:31
to class. I was excited for the kids to be there
6:34
and what I was going to teach them and they started
6:37
to be very excited to be in in the class and
6:39
their scores were going up and less behaviors
6:41
were happening. So the teacher burnout wasn't
6:45
really an issue anymore. And so to not share
6:47
that with our fellow educators seemed like we
6:49
are doing them a disservice. So we applied, we
6:53
spoke to six entire people. One principal actually
6:57
came back and saw us again. We were accepted
7:00
back into the innovative schools in Las Vegas.
7:02
And that's kind of where... We kind of decided
7:05
we're not going to to let this go. We're going
7:08
to really see what we can do with this. And that
7:10
was almost six years ago. I think you probably
7:13
then doubled the number of people that attended
7:17
the first session at like a outside of my own
7:20
district type of a conference that I presented
7:23
at. I think I had three. Yeah. And we were very
7:27
intimate and then, you know, like got to know
7:29
each other pretty well before we. You know then
7:32
talked about whatever that content was back at
7:34
that time. But yeah, so I can I totally get where
7:37
you're going But yet, you know, I think it's
7:40
a great way to kind of get started together So
7:42
you began kind of your journey together presenting
7:47
at this conference But then it definitely morphs
7:50
into something bigger after that, right? You
7:54
you've partnered together to form, you know the
7:57
integrated edu platform. You've got a book that
8:00
I think I can see in the video over the top of
8:04
your heads. So can you tell us a little bit about
8:08
how did you go from being co -presenters at a
8:13
conference to creating this platform together?
8:17
I think what happened was is that we started
8:21
collaborating very well together. I was teaching
8:23
second grade, Kara's in first grade, our principal
8:26
let us teach together, which turned out to be
8:29
a blessing. And so we started teaching more together
8:32
and then we realized we need to take this further.
8:36
And then we started to speak. And a part of me,
8:40
business -wise, was like, well, we have to look
8:41
like we know what we're doing in order for people
8:43
to take us seriously. And so then that's kind
8:45
of where the business name came into play and
8:48
all these pieces. We met, actually, another international
8:52
speaker. His name is Stan Tall Steve or Stephen
8:55
Bowler. And he kind of helped us get started
8:58
on this journey of what does it even look like
9:00
to make this into something other than just talking
9:04
to other educators. So we've been working with
9:07
him for quite a while. And now we get to coach
9:11
other speakers, educational people that want
9:14
to do this work. And I think that the business
9:16
started to grow when we really started to see
9:19
educators use what we're doing. Telling us that
9:23
it was working. I mean that's that is fuel when
9:26
someone can say hey, I've tried this and it's
9:28
bringing me joy It's working for the students
9:30
or this is the outcome of this and so you you
9:34
kind of just keep going and and it's something
9:36
that you don't You don't give up on I don't know
9:39
when I think to a powerful piece is We were friends
9:43
first and then we were teaching partners and
9:46
then you know, we added another level of business
9:49
partners presenters as well. So just to have
9:52
that solid foundation and just kind of knowing
9:55
each other and how we operate you know strengths
9:58
weaknesses you know preferences all of that in
10:01
a working space it also has allowed us to grow
10:04
rather quickly just because you know there's
10:07
two of us and so we use that. unfair advantage,
10:10
sometimes just because we can divvy tasks, we
10:12
can, you know, play on each other's strengths,
10:15
which they're complete opposites, which works
10:18
well. And so, yeah, just kind of also having
10:21
that foundation. And then, yeah, it just we have
10:25
found that we make a really great team. And then
10:28
with the coaching and just having lots of mentors
10:31
and support along the way have allowed us to
10:34
grow, which is pretty amazing. I think one of
10:37
the things, if I look at David and I with the
10:40
integrate this and yours with the integrate ed,
10:44
how do you see that name integrate fitting into
10:48
it? For us, it was very much integrating technology
10:52
in effective ways in the classroom for learning
10:55
and instruction. Are you looking at it the same
10:58
way or is your integrate part of your name come
11:01
from a different place? Well, I'm so happy that
11:08
you asked that question. When we first started
11:09
this, when we came up with Integrated, it was
11:12
because our framework is all about how to integrate
11:15
content purposefully, how we can take all the
11:18
core content, integrate them together, and kind
11:21
of have this beautiful teaching experience for
11:24
everyone. And funny how that started it, and
11:28
as we continued to get into our work and working
11:32
with each other and the business, we realized
11:34
that our lives are very much integrated. That
11:37
everything about what we do is very purposeful.
11:41
Our three values, one of the word is purposeful.
11:44
And we're always thinking, if we're not doing
11:47
it purposefully, why are we doing it? And we
11:49
realized that all of our life is just really
11:52
integrated together, business, personal. So it's
11:57
kind of became something that was just Once just
12:01
a business idea and now something that's that
12:03
we very much hold on to. Yeah, it started off
12:06
as just kind of that idea of holding true to
12:09
that content piece. But yet, as we grow, we're
12:12
like, wow, it's so fitting because it fits so
12:15
many different aspects. Now, even in business,
12:18
it's not just integrating content, so many other
12:20
things as well as into our personal lives and
12:22
our friendship as well. So, you know, what started
12:25
off as, you know. a fun idea has morphed into
12:29
like, wow, you know, you didn't realize how powerful
12:32
it was going to be later down the road. And it's
12:34
really just kind of grown with us. And we've
12:37
come to realize that it fits us really well.
12:41
Cool. I like that. And I dive a little bit deeper
12:45
here before I turn it over to David for the next
12:47
part. But, you know, you talk about trying to
12:51
create learning experiences that will last a
12:53
lifetime. So what's What's the importance of,
12:56
you know, bringing content and bringing activity
12:59
and bringing experiences to students that they're
13:02
going to remember long after they leave, you
13:05
know, one of your classrooms? Mouse in the boot,
13:09
mouse in the boot. So I, I, oh, that's a loaded
13:14
question. A big piece of this is we want students
13:18
to take what they're learning and take it out
13:20
to the recess to take it home to the dinner table
13:23
to have conversations over the weekend. And when
13:26
you can create that type of connection. students
13:29
are going to remember the information that you're
13:31
teaching them. It's not just a fill in the blank
13:34
worksheet anymore. It's not just just sit and
13:36
get and understand this and it leaves somewhere.
13:39
It's creating an environment in your classroom
13:41
that's purposeful for them to learn and have
13:45
an experience around that. And that's very small
13:48
shifts in our instruction to make that possible.
13:50
into big things, where you're talking about PBL
13:54
type learning. But we are so prized on taking
13:58
what you already have in your classroom and creating
14:00
an experience that fits your students sitting
14:03
right in front of you that year. finding those
14:08
moments for them that you can connect to the
14:10
content that they need to learn that feels relevant
14:13
to them. It excites them about what they're learning.
14:16
And then that way, it's not our olden days where
14:19
we all dissected a frog at some point in time.
14:23
And that's the only thing we remember from our
14:25
childhood is dissecting a frog. And I want that
14:28
to be... every day you're walking away with some
14:31
type of an experience in your learning that you
14:34
will have and hold on to for a very long time.
14:38
We talk a lot about how that word experience,
14:41
the definition is literally to gain knowledge
14:44
through participation and observation and we
14:48
do that in our personal everyday lives as we
14:51
always talk about we want to create experiences
14:53
for ourselves, for our families, but yet when
14:55
we walk into the school building a lot of times
14:57
that's what gets left out. And so we are on the
15:01
path to that's how we should be instructing our
15:05
kids because if they are observing and participating
15:08
in these learning experiences, we're going to
15:11
be able to help them grow in knowledge as students
15:14
and then also as individuals as well. So that
15:19
is that's kind of. the basis of what, what we
15:23
try to help educators with. And like Meg said,
15:25
we're not another program. It's not another curriculum,
15:28
but rather we take what you have, we mold it
15:30
to what you need. So that way you can feel successful
15:33
and not feel that burnout. So as you kind of
15:38
develop things and you, you know, you have the
15:40
book and the there's the seven pathways of learning
15:43
in what, can you tell us a little bit, maybe
15:45
just like a short little. Synopsis of the those
15:48
7 pathways and. If you want to just give us a
15:52
rundown of what they are. Yeah, so the seven
15:56
pathways are the different paths that students
15:59
might need in order to get to understanding a
16:02
certain concept or idea. It could be something
16:05
like storytelling, movement, visual arts, music,
16:09
and there's seven of those. And when you make
16:11
small shifts in your instruction and bring in
16:14
a different way to teach a piece of content,
16:17
you're giving your students a multiple pathway
16:19
to get to the same destination. maybe your students
16:23
you have movers right that never stop moving
16:26
and excuse me. When those students start to move
16:31
a lot, that's their pathway. They need to move
16:33
to maybe understand a difficult concept. And
16:36
so putting in a small shift in that, whether
16:38
it's using their bodies to show a vocabulary
16:41
word or to show a process for a cycle, what would
16:46
it look like if, and they can showcase with their
16:48
bodies with that, you've moved to them purposefully.
16:51
And then when you need them to sit still for
16:53
other things, they're more able to do that. So
16:55
it's just using those different pathways in a
16:58
way Those pathways, we always talk about how
17:02
it creates multiple access points for students
17:05
to get into the content. And it's a way that
17:10
we can naturally differentiate our instruction
17:12
to create strong tier one. We always know that.
17:16
the best intervention is strong tier one instruction
17:18
and so that is our goal with that is to naturally
17:22
differentiate it engages students and then ultimately
17:25
will lead to that growth just by making those
17:28
small shifts and creating that the multiple access
17:31
points for students to be able to showcase their
17:34
knowledge or access content in a different way.
17:38
Yeah and you had talked to us too I remember
17:41
just thinking back to our conversation at ISTE
17:43
as well it's like the goal is student engagement,
17:46
right? So is it right to say that your ultimate
17:52
goal is student engagement and you're thinking
17:54
about all students and so therefore we're looking
17:57
at seven different pathways so we can provide
17:59
opportunities to ultimately reach student engagement
18:02
and get that for as many students as possible.
18:06
Is that a safe way to put it? I think that engagement
18:10
is an outcome, not a strategy. So, as much as
18:14
we want student engagement, student engagement
18:17
invites connection, connection invites learning.
18:20
And so, when we provide these different ways,
18:22
students just naturally get engaged and we're
18:25
not trying to engage them by putting on some
18:27
type of show or big activities that are just
18:31
filling the time. It is something that comes
18:36
out of the way that we intentionally design.
18:39
And I would say too, with the purposeful design,
18:44
the outcome is a student engagement. And then
18:46
our ultimate goal for any educator is going to
18:49
be to see your students grow. And so, but in
18:52
order to get there, you know, well, what's one
18:54
step back is student engagement, one step back
18:56
then that is what's your design. And so it kind
18:59
of is the formula to. to reach our ultimate goal
19:04
of growth. But you have to start at the beginning,
19:06
which is purposeful design. The outcome is student
19:09
engagement. And then you'll reach your goal of
19:12
seeing that student growth. OK, yeah. And if
19:15
you're looking at like so teachers that and you've
19:18
you've done this in your own classrooms, too,
19:20
and you've taken teachers through how they can
19:23
create student engagement. or create things that
19:29
have that be the outcome. What does that typically
19:31
look like? So if you think about the seminars
19:33
that you do or just the experiences you've created
19:36
in your own class, what does that look like?
19:39
What's different from somebody walking into that
19:42
classroom versus a classroom that's not doing
19:44
that? I don't know if you would be able to see
19:50
it right away, but the behind the scenes of that
19:53
is you're not just taking a scripted curriculum
19:56
and and doing day one, day one, day two, day
19:59
two, and following this that doesn't fit you
20:03
as the teacher, your authentic teaching style,
20:05
and then fit the kids that are sitting in front
20:07
of you right now. We do what we call an engagement
20:10
check, and that is... are your students truly
20:13
engaged? If a leader walks into one classroom
20:16
and says, well, are these students learning and
20:18
are they engaged? What do you even look for when
20:20
you see that? And students are collaborating,
20:23
right? They're having discussion with each other.
20:25
They're asking questions of each other. They're
20:29
understanding what they're learning, not because
20:31
there's an I can statement on the front of the
20:32
board, but because they're having, they're letting
20:35
you know that I understand this because of this
20:37
or this is what we're doing. And I think that
20:40
is true engagement and that can look very different.
20:42
It can look quiet where students are maybe for
20:46
lack of better terms, more organized in the classroom,
20:48
or it could look a little bit more loud and chaotic.
20:51
It just depends on what type of teacher that
20:54
you have standing in front of them. And I think
20:58
part of that, too, what might be a little bit
21:00
different as well is you might see the same content
21:03
being taught, but it's how either the students
21:05
are accessing that content or showcasing their
21:08
knowledge with that content is where the difference
21:10
could lie as well. You know, they could be accessing
21:13
it through an experience. They could be demonstrating
21:15
knowledge through multiple pathways rather than
21:18
if someone was not using those ideas. It could
21:22
just be, you know. worksheets or submitting things
21:26
on their tablet, Chromebooks, whatever that might
21:28
be. So it really just kind of depends. Yeah,
21:32
so that might just be one of the differences
21:34
as well is just kind of the same content, but
21:37
how how it's being showcased or how it's being
21:40
designed and designed. Yes. Is there something
21:45
that At like a baseline level that any teacher
21:48
could do to start that process right away. So,
21:51
you know, obviously there's a like you mentioned
21:53
there's a lot of different ways that this could
21:54
look but is there something that typically you
21:57
would start teachers with that are just unfamiliar
21:59
with this this idea or or maybe even pulling
22:03
something from your book or it's like start here.
22:05
You know, is is there something you can give
22:07
us there? Yeah, I'm sorry our book is a great
22:12
resource to start there's 80 plus ideas in the
22:14
back to take these different pathways or experiences
22:17
and make it fit your classroom, but also. When
22:21
it comes to the pathways and having that understanding,
22:23
we all learn by a specific pathway that was our
22:26
favorite, right? That when we sit down for professional
22:29
development or we go in to learn something, we're
22:32
taking away a certain piece of that and that's
22:34
how we learn best by. And more times than not,
22:37
teachers, that's what they're going to gravitate
22:39
towards. For me, it's visual arts. Any time that
22:42
I can bring in any type of visual art piece to
22:45
get my students connected, it's an easy plug
22:47
-in for me. Whereas Kara is more music. So we
22:51
ask our teachers to start where they feel most
22:54
comfortable, but making very small 1 % shifts.
22:57
It's a two minute change in a lesson, right?
23:00
In a day, it's only 15 minute difference. And
23:04
it's taking maybe the way that you hook your
23:06
students differently into a lesson. um the one
23:09
percent could be how you are letting them show
23:11
their knowledge at the end of a lesson instead
23:14
of an exit ticket maybe they do a movement piece
23:17
or a visual arts piece we ask teachers to kind
23:22
of start with something small because a lot of
23:24
times if you overhaul an idea and you try to
23:28
redo everything you get burnt out and nothing
23:31
becomes successful Yep, that's where the idea
23:34
of those 1 % shifts came in. We also do when
23:38
we speak we have it's called a guide to micro
23:42
shifts where you're just simply taking one pathway
23:46
a week for about four weeks and just trying something
23:49
with one pathway for one week just to kind of
23:52
dip your toe in because like Meg said a lot of
23:55
times we are one of those people that we love
23:57
an idea and we just dive into the deep end with
23:59
it right away. But a lot of times educators can
24:03
feel overwhelmed by that and they try and then
24:06
they they're like this didn't work and then nothing
24:09
changes after that and they go back to how they
24:11
had taught before so encouraging just those small
24:15
one percent changes so that way you can feel
24:17
successful and eventually those will start to
24:20
build up and you'll start to use multiple pathways
24:22
throughout all your lessons. I'm thinking back
24:26
to a word that one of you said earlier, I don't
24:28
remember which one of you, but as one of your
24:31
values, purposeful, right? And so these 1 % shifts
24:35
that you're talking about to me seem like they're
24:37
being very much implemented with a purpose behind
24:42
it, a purpose to improve something in instruction
24:44
or improved, you know, how you're trying to get
24:48
to that outcome of engaged students, right? Am
24:50
I putting words in your mouth or does that connect?
24:53
No, that's perfect. That's exactly what it is.
24:56
I am such a firm believer on if we're not doing
24:59
it purposefully, why are we doing it? We do not
25:02
have time to do things to fill the time, nor
25:05
do I want to take the time to make things to
25:07
fill the time. everything has to be purposeful.
25:11
And a big piece of that right now is technology,
25:14
right? There's so much amazing things out there.
25:17
And I think a lot of times we just grab and grab
25:18
and grab and grab. And we think, well, what is
25:21
purposeful for what we're doing? What's the outcome?
25:24
And why do we need it? So yes, every bit about
25:28
everything we do, I think that's why. our relationship
25:32
is so strong in business and is that we constantly
25:36
make sure that the ideas that we have and the
25:38
things that we're doing are purposeful not only
25:40
for ourselves but the people that we're giving
25:41
it to. Do you ever walk into a school or into
25:46
a classroom and just see where things they appear
25:52
chaotic or maybe it's just because it's things
25:55
are being done inconsistently and you know like
25:58
What are some of those things that you observe
26:00
when you walk in that you immediately the alarm
26:03
bells go off and the red flags go up and you
26:06
say, this isn't improving anything? This is probably
26:11
not going to sit with everyone, but I'm going
26:12
to say it. Small group instruction, like centers.
26:19
Those, they just don't work well. I don't know
26:24
how else to say that better. I just, I think
26:26
what happens is centers and when we try to meet
26:29
the needs and differentiate for all students
26:31
and we create centers for them and then they
26:33
rotate and only one of those centers is an adult,
26:37
you have lost all the other kids and now they're
26:40
just doing things to do things. It's back to
26:42
that purposefulness. It's a lot of time on teachers
26:46
to make all of these centers and to make all
26:48
the things for the centers and change them out.
26:52
And we're not purposefully using our time, which
26:56
the teacher becomes frustrated with that. Kids
26:58
become behaviors because they can't necessarily
27:02
maybe sit there for that long or they're not
27:04
on task for that long. And then the teacher becomes
27:06
frustrated. And there's a lot of lost learning
27:10
in that. So we have found that centers or those
27:13
types of rotations and those things really aren't
27:16
as purposeful as what I think the intent was
27:18
for them. And that's kind of a place where we
27:21
like to. To start. Yeah, it's true. And one of
27:26
those things and it's not saying that we don't
27:29
believe in like that intervention time. We just
27:31
structure it a lot differently where every student
27:34
is in intervention for 30 minutes at the same
27:36
time, because then that frees up 45 extra minutes
27:39
for strong tier one instruction where every student
27:42
is getting access to the same content and skills
27:45
and information that they need. So that is one
27:48
place where. Yeah, it might not sit with everyone,
27:52
but that's what we found in all of the years
27:54
we've been in the classroom teaching and in a
27:56
lot of the classrooms that we've gone into to
27:59
help and with designing instruction, because
28:01
a lot of times they're always like, well, we
28:03
just don't have enough time. Well, this is an
28:05
area where if you just structure it and look
28:07
at that just a little bit differently, you could
28:10
gain a little bit more time and still be extremely
28:12
successful in both providing intervention, but
28:15
also providing strong tier one instruction. You
28:17
know what else doesn't work very well? Worksheets
28:20
lots and lots of packets and worksheets. It's
28:23
just so much paper and we there's a there's a
28:26
different way. So If you couldn't tell what I'm
28:30
sorry, go ahead. No, it's fine I was just gonna
28:31
say we're all about just looking at things a
28:34
little bit differently Bringing in a little bit
28:36
different perspective just because it's been
28:38
done one way for so long doesn't mean it needs
28:40
to continue being done that way Just you know
28:44
again purposefully and Just shifting perspective
28:48
a little bit. Yeah, and I know you talk about
28:51
a three C's approach with clarity, consistency
28:55
and connection. Is that part of them? How you
28:59
how a teacher could say like maybe they've noticed
29:02
the same thing that you noticed about small group
29:04
instruction is that it just doesn't appear to
29:06
be working for them. And can they restructure
29:08
what they're doing and creating those experiences
29:11
for students around those three C's? Yeah, and
29:14
what's funny is that we don't really bring up
29:16
the three as we're talking or it's just as kind
29:20
of our values behind the scene, right the clarity
29:23
You have to have clarity before you can have
29:25
creativity. If you're not clear on where you're
29:27
going, you can't be creative in how you're going
29:30
to get there. It has no place to land. So with
29:33
that, we have to know exactly where are we going
29:36
to go in our instruction, where the kids need
29:38
to go, and then we can kind of have that creativity.
29:41
The consistency piece is you need to consistently
29:44
do things that brings you joy. you know, consistently
29:50
try something for a while and see what that looks
29:52
like and then shift as you go. And connection
29:56
for me is that's another piece that I talk a
30:00
lot about is connection and It's connection not
30:05
only with the people around you, but it's also
30:07
connection with the content that you're teaching.
30:10
It's connection with the students that you have
30:12
in your classroom and with each other. And then
30:14
of course that connection with team members that
30:17
you're working with. All of those three things
30:20
put together, if you have those in place, that
30:24
system, it shows great, great value in that.
30:27
Absolutely. It kind of goes back to, you know,
30:30
if you had any type of like personal goals, if
30:32
you're not clear on what your goal is or where
30:34
you want to go, you can't develop a path or plan
30:38
to get there. And then if you're not consistent,
30:40
you think you go one day to the gym and you're
30:43
going to be like. buff and you're you've met
30:46
all your goals that's going to be you know that's
30:49
wrong and then um the connection you know you
30:53
have to have purpose and a why why you're doing
30:56
it and so all of those things that we've you
31:00
know taken from Kind of when we first met the
31:03
that whole going back to when we were running
31:05
our goal was that half marathon and all of those
31:07
things You know the clarity the connection and
31:10
the consistency we have been able to then build
31:13
What we do with educators all around that Yeah,
31:19
I can appreciate that and that so talking about
31:22
the book in the podcast a little bit I want to
31:25
just get into where so the book your mean audience
31:29
is gonna be teachers? Yes. Or would you include
31:33
admin in there too? We would love the administrator
31:37
to see what it is that teachers can do because
31:40
then you know what to look for, right? So the
31:42
first half of the book is kind of what is it?
31:44
How do you get it implemented? All of the stories
31:48
that go around that and the back half of the
31:50
book is all the ideas right so the first half
31:52
would be for admin you really want to know what
31:54
you're looking for for your teachers and how
31:56
you can support them. it's also a strong tool
31:59
and resource for any type of like instructional
32:01
coach in that aspect as well if you're trying
32:04
to help guide teams into planning or developing
32:08
designing different ways to instruct students
32:11
and so. Like Meg said, because it gives them
32:14
the how, the what, the why, and then it gives
32:16
all those ideas in the back that they can take
32:18
and modify and use for the kids that are in front
32:21
of them. And Jeremy and I are obviously we're
32:25
always like steeped in the tech integration side,
32:28
but you know that the whole purpose there is
32:30
it's supposed to support curriculum design, right?
32:33
Not like not replace it. So if. If we were to
32:37
look at your book from our vantage point, do
32:39
you feel like we'd be able to take some useful
32:41
things there to away as as tech integration people?
32:46
Absolutely, yeah. One of our pathways is technology.
32:50
And like we said, we just look at it from a little
32:52
bit different lens of what's the purpose behind
32:54
it. We are all for the use of technology. If
32:57
you can, you know. Tell students or explain to
33:01
students why it's necessary. We have been talking
33:04
a lot about how we want students to be. Producers
33:08
of the technology, not just consumers and so
33:11
not just sitting and getting whether that's gaming
33:13
videos, whatever, but teaching them that it can
33:15
be a really powerful tool in producing and showcasing
33:19
knowledge as well. And so there are lots of ideas
33:22
that revolve around technology, but. from the
33:27
lens of how you're going to use it in your design
33:29
and what's the purpose behind it. OK, and so
33:34
as far as your the you have the book we just
33:37
talked about, but then when did the podcast start
33:39
as your podcasters as well, as you mentioned?
33:42
Yeah. Yeah, that's been a journey. That was fun.
33:46
We have integrated EDU. We pop on do YouTube
33:50
every month is a new topic. And then that then
33:54
goes into our podcast. We We started that journey.
34:00
I'm sure like every YouTube slash podcaster is
34:04
it started pretty rough, right? It was I think
34:06
we just pop on and start talking and so then
34:09
we've crafted it a little bit better and so now
34:11
educators are getting a solid message that should
34:14
fit in the year that in the year of our recording
34:17
that month, you know, back to school end of the
34:20
year. And our goal behind that is to kind of
34:24
look differently at what we're doing, but give
34:26
actual strategies and ideas for our leaders and
34:29
our educators walking back, obviously, into the
34:32
classrooms coming up soon when we've recorded
34:34
this. So now it's become something that we just
34:37
really enjoy and have gotten a lot of feedback
34:40
that other educators like to listen to us on
34:43
their work. Yeah, it all started with, you know,
34:47
we love speaking, but when we are not speaking
34:49
in front of people, how else can we share this
34:51
information? And we're like, well, people do
34:54
podcasts all the time. So we gave it gave it
34:56
a whirl. And so, like Meg said, it's not just
34:59
the. the information behind it, but we always
35:02
want to make sure we're giving something to people
35:04
to walk away with to make sure that they can
35:06
feel like they can be successful with any of
35:08
the ideas or strategies that we've talked about.
35:12
So just another platform for us to reach educators
35:15
and to try to help them be successful in their
35:18
classrooms. OK, yeah, and is there anything that
35:22
I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit,
35:23
but was there any conversations that you had
35:25
where you're like the time just went really fast?
35:28
You were really like. Dug in deep to something
35:30
and it was like a really It maybe even shifted
35:34
your own thinking about you know, just talking
35:36
with one another like I hadn't really thought
35:38
about that before Is there a certain episode?
35:42
Weirdly enough, that happens quite often, even
35:45
when we don't hit record. Our conversations,
35:48
a lot of times we think we should really record
35:50
our car conversations because we will shift each
35:53
other's mindset quickly. But then the really
35:56
cool thing that will happen is we will be saying
35:58
the same exact thing in a different way. And
36:00
then we finally come to the realization that
36:03
we're saying the same thing. And we both kind
36:05
of... find this frustration piece in that. And
36:08
I think when we pop on the podcast, there are
36:10
some really great ones on there. Especially there's
36:14
one that talks all about pathways and how would
36:18
we utilize those. And then there's a technology.
36:22
I think just recently in the last few that we've
36:24
had, we've honed in on kind of our beliefs and
36:29
what we really think is great for educators.
36:32
And the cool thing about there being two of us
36:34
is We can still speak on the same content, but
36:37
yet have a little bit different view or perception
36:40
of of that content. And, you know, it just kind
36:44
of goes back to being, you know, your own unique
36:47
self as an educator. It's being our own unique
36:49
self with one another and as speakers. But. We
36:53
feel like it can be beneficial to anyone listening
36:56
or that has subscribed because they get kind
36:58
of two different vantage points and they can
37:01
kind of see where they might fit, whether it's
37:04
with one of us or, you know, shifting into their
37:06
own, which is kind of a cool thing as well. So
37:09
we always like to. Yeah, we always do talk about
37:12
we should have car chronicles to talk about and
37:16
to record all the different things we talk about
37:18
because. It never fails. We go on a little shopping
37:21
trip and we talk about, you know, it's not going
37:24
to be work, but it always we always always worry
37:26
about work. But that's just passion comes. I
37:30
was going to say it just kind of shows where
37:31
our heart is and how much we believe in what
37:33
we're doing. Is that where it should stop or
37:35
is the car Chronicles? We don't want to look
37:37
at text message threads or anything like that
37:40
because that might. There's been moments we're
37:45
going to get to that later in that in the episode,
37:46
I think, is is what how you can tune into the
37:50
other side of Megan and Kara. Sure. Now, just.
37:54
Following you guys on socials here over the summer,
37:57
you've been very busy. You've been around in
38:00
a lot of different places, different states,
38:02
you know, and you've had a chance to encounter
38:05
lots of different groups of people. You know,
38:07
what are, you know, I'm going to ask you to put
38:10
your finger on the pulse of, you know, where
38:12
are teachers at right now, or educators, if you
38:15
want to be more broad? What are they hungry for?
38:18
What are some of the things that they're saying
38:19
that surprise you? I don't think really anything
38:24
is too surprising in that it's just we're kind
38:27
of still trying to figure out how do we fit it
38:31
all in, right? As the teachers in the classroom,
38:33
it's how do I add more? How do I do more? I don't
38:36
have time to do this. And that's kind of been
38:38
the basis of that. And we're wanting to do really
38:42
well for our students. But what happens is that
38:45
in doing that with fidelity of the things that
38:47
come in or trying to follow a certain program,
38:50
it's not meeting the needs of the educator or
38:52
the students, and then it has its faults. And
38:55
so I think the struggle with that is how do they
38:58
meet the needs of all of their kids sitting in
39:01
front of them with what they have? As an administrator's
39:06
viewpoint, we have some teachers doing really
39:09
great work and then we have some teachers that
39:11
need help. And how do we get all the teachers
39:13
on board of what the great teachers are doing?
39:16
And that's where we come in to help build that
39:18
bridge. Every teacher wants to be a great teacher.
39:22
They just might not know how to yet or the things
39:25
that are working for them. And so we help build
39:27
that bridge to meet the needs for that administrator
39:30
to that teacher. So I think that'd probably be
39:34
the number one thing that we saw this summer.
39:36
And we had, man, there are such great educators
39:40
from all of the places that we've been this summer.
39:43
I couldn't have asked for a better experience
39:45
with all of them and all of their amazing things
39:48
that they're doing. I think one thing as educators
39:51
listen to us speak is you are doing great things
39:54
in your classroom. You are doing the best work
39:57
that you can do and we want to cheer you on.
40:02
Keep doing those amazing things and when it feels
40:04
like the right thing and you know it feels like
40:07
the right thing to do it anyways and see what
40:09
happens and get your kids involved in their learning.
40:13
Absolutely. So with you know, thinking of where
40:17
you've you've been and where you're headed, you
40:20
know What is what is your platform look like
40:22
two three years from now? Oh Are you still doing
40:25
this? Are you is it ramped up and you're you're
40:27
going above and beyond or is it just like yeah
40:30
We're just living in the moment. Oh This is where
40:34
you're gonna see the yin and yang This is where
40:36
we get this is where we have our yin and yang.
40:39
Yeah, Kara. You go first Well, I like to say
40:43
I am very much the we need to make sure we're
40:46
living in the present moment making sure that
40:48
we are doing the best we can right now serving
40:51
those that are right in front of us and make
40:54
she she's a. really good at getting me outside
40:57
my comfort zone because she is a big dreamer
41:00
and she has big goals and big plans and so that's
41:03
where we kind of balance each other out where
41:05
you know I'm like let's try to you know soak
41:07
this in while we're here and like pour into the
41:10
people that we have right here and she's like
41:12
yes and we're gonna keep pushing forward and
41:17
so yeah our goal is both honestly um it's kind
41:20
of Contradictory to say that but we we want to
41:24
live in the moment that we are but yet we're
41:26
still Looking ahead and still looking forward
41:29
to grow and to continue to reach as many educators
41:32
as possible Yeah, I am a big dreamer like go
41:37
go big and I think eventually in the next two
41:40
or three years I would love integrated to be
41:43
that consulting um group of educators because
41:46
there was only two of us to come in and help
41:48
build those those bridges to help teachers feel
41:51
confident in what they're teaching to really
41:53
put in everything that we've talked about on
41:55
this podcast and um I absolutely love speaking
42:00
I love getting in front of educators I love helping
42:03
and so to think that that would ever end um is
42:06
kind of heart -wrenching so It's not going anywhere.
42:10
It's only going to get bigger and better. And
42:12
Kara is going to be our discerner when I try
42:15
to do way too much. Awesome. Well, you're obviously
42:20
both very passionate about what you're doing.
42:21
And that's awesome to see. So we appreciate you
42:25
taking the time to give us insights about your
42:27
process and about integrated. And we want to
42:30
go into, we always do this with our guests. We
42:33
go into a lightning round. These are meant to
42:34
just be you know, fun questions to get to know
42:37
the guests a little bit more and not so much
42:39
on the serious side. There are maybe some questions
42:42
that tie in, but most of them are going to be
42:44
personal. So we're going to start off with this
42:48
one and we'll have you both answer. What's a
42:51
funny or frustrating travel story for us? Oh,
42:56
OK. Just one, not gonna happen. But we do have,
43:01
this is a plugin, it's a shameless plugin. There's
43:03
adventures of Kara and Meg on TikTok, where we
43:06
go on and we share the frustrations and all the
43:10
feelings when we travel and do the things. But
43:13
most of the time, the frustrations come because
43:15
I am living in the moment, if you will, and I
43:19
don't really pay attention to my surroundings.
43:21
I get lost frequently, and Kara brings us on
43:24
track. So... We're in Pensacola, Florida. We
43:29
have two very distinct jobs. I drive, she navigates,
43:33
she decides that that is not how those jobs are
43:35
gonna go, and we switch roles. That doesn't work
43:38
out well. So we end up in not the right place
43:41
because I am too stubborn to let Google tell
43:44
us where to go. I'm gonna tell you where to go.
43:46
And we don't go in the right direction. most
43:49
of the time. We saw really great things. Kara
43:52
became frustrated, which usually doesn't happen.
43:56
Long story short, we saw a wonderful beach, some
43:59
ocean water, and finally our location of the
44:02
hotel. Needless to say, I now drive all the time
44:06
and Kara tells me where to go. With traveling
44:12
together, being, you know, best friends and speaking
44:15
partners, it's it was a way it's an outlet for
44:18
us just to be like, kind of like you're saying
44:20
it maybe not such the serious side of us, but
44:23
kind of the friendship side of what we have as
44:26
well. And so one like there are so many there's
44:30
so many I every single trip there's something
44:33
we just currently did a very local conference
44:36
and yet. there's still stories to share and we
44:40
only drove two hours. And so that TikTok channel
44:44
was just because we're like, just a fun outlet
44:47
for us something a little bit more creative and
44:49
people to see. I think it's a really good travel
44:52
tips. Like they also, there's going to be some
44:55
travel tips involved in that, like what not to
44:57
do in this situation. So yeah, I could think
45:01
of worse places to get lost than Pensacola. So
45:04
I mean, that's thank you. Yeah, for sure. it
45:07
was a beautiful scenic drive yeah yeah so if
45:11
you could change one thing about how professional
45:14
development is developed delivered what would
45:18
you change the engagement and how it's being
45:22
delivered is students don't want sit and get
45:24
neither do us so It's how if we're designing
45:28
all these great things for students, we need
45:30
to also design our PD that way. That is one thing
45:33
that Karen and I make sure that we do every single
45:35
time is that we're designing professional learning
45:38
for the adults sitting in front of us that's
45:40
engaging, relevant, and you can take it back
45:43
the next day. Absolutely. And consistent PD,
45:47
not just a one and done thinking it's going to
45:49
fix everything. We're all about Kind of that
45:54
consulting piece, like having us throughout the
45:57
entire year. So that way you can feel successful
45:59
in any implementation process, whether that's
46:01
us or whatever it is that you're implementing
46:03
in your school, you're building, but the one
46:06
and done. They never work. And so, like, if you're
46:09
wanting true change, true impact, it needs to
46:13
be a long term thing, not just a quick sit and
46:18
get one and done. Alright, so this next one you
46:23
have to answer for each other and you have to
46:26
tell what is the other one's go -to travel snack?
46:28
Oh, I know that 100 % Okay, Kara needs a Diet
46:33
Coke and probably that black bag popcorn white
46:38
cheesy stuff The smart the smart pot. I don't
46:42
know what it's called. I just know where to get
46:43
popcorn. Yeah, like something salty. Yep. Okay,
46:46
that's very true Meg's She recently has also
46:50
got on to the diet coke trend as well. And then
46:53
she loves her hot tamales So those would be her
46:57
little travel pick -me -up guilty pleasure. If
47:01
Karen eats sweet, we're going with some peanut
47:03
butter M &M's it really depends on our mood,
47:05
but Yep. Depends on if you're lost or not basically.
47:11
I just keep them stacked in my purse just in
47:14
case. The emergency. It's like here's your sticker.
47:19
Oh goodness. Stop getting hangry on me here.
47:23
Just feed Kara breakfast and things will go just
47:25
fine. I love breakfast. Breakfast is if I don't
47:28
get any other meal breakfast is is my go -to
47:30
for sure. What's a favorite book show or movie
47:34
that you're you're into right now? Oh. She will
47:37
never stop telling you the list. I am a huge
47:41
reader. I love to read. I will read fiction.
47:44
I love a good memoir. I, you know. What's your
47:48
one right now? What do you like? What are you
47:50
reading? Right now I'm reading... I think I believe
47:56
it's called A Stolen Life by J .C. Dugard. It's
47:59
a memoir. She was the one that was kidnapped,
48:03
but then they found her years later. And so I'm
48:05
currently reading that a memoir. And then I'm
48:08
also digging into a professional development
48:11
book, Todd Whitaker, professional development
48:13
book as well. What great teachers do differently.
48:16
So. But those are just my current two. And then,
48:18
you know, when you're traveling or on family
48:21
vacation, there's always the fun reads, the ones
48:23
that you don't really have to think about too
48:24
hard. Yeah. But my list could go on and on. But
48:28
I'm more of a mystery thriller type book and
48:32
then PD mixed in like all our background. If
48:35
you're watching us, I love to pick up a good
48:38
PD book for for pastime. And if we're in the
48:44
hotel room, Any type of downtime are the TV shows.
48:49
It's either Friends or Big Bang Theory. Any type
48:53
of reruns on those two shows, those are our go
48:55
-tos. Any current TV shows, I don't have time
48:58
to watch. The only time we really watch TV is
49:02
when we're traveling and it's late at night and
49:05
we just need some downtime. But those are the
49:07
two go -to shows. OK, so if you're not traveling
49:11
and you're back home in Wyoming, what's your
49:14
favorite place to go? Oh. We have this really
49:19
great little pizza joint that started as this
49:22
little truck, and now they have this really wonderful
49:25
restaurant called Pizza Corella, and it's wood
49:28
fire pizza. They have dill pickle chicken wings.
49:32
So if I were to pick a place to go eat, it'd
49:33
be there. Travel wise, like to go somewhere.
49:39
we have just really great places that are only
49:41
like an hour away that we can just kind of go
49:43
in and just be in the space of nature. And so
49:47
any of that kind of stuff would be would be my
49:49
go to. Yeah. My little family, we really enjoy
49:53
there's a local Mexican restaurant just right
49:55
down the road from us. And so that's kind of
49:57
our go to out to eat spot. Again, local mom and
50:02
pop shop type of eating is called Los Compadres.
50:06
And we absolutely love it. And then Yeah, kind
50:09
of like Meg said, we live in a really cool spot
50:12
where there's mountains on either side of us
50:13
an hour in any direction. And so if we want just
50:16
kind of a little escape, we will head in either
50:19
direction and kind of go escape for a day or
50:22
a weekend and just kind of, you know, hang out
50:25
at the lake or whatever it might be, just to
50:27
kind of reconnect and enjoy, enjoy the beautiful
50:31
area that we live in. Yeah. Unless you bring
50:34
my family, I have three boys. And so it's usually
50:37
not as quiet and we like to paddleboard so I
50:40
will kind of go away and they will try to push
50:43
off paddleboards it's just they're just very
50:46
they're very lovely children as quiet as it can
50:48
be with you know four kids and then three kids
50:50
yes yeah relative well one last question here
50:56
um so we're david and i were hosting a two -day
50:58
conference okay carrie you're our keynote speaker
51:02
the first day meg you're the second day And we've
51:05
got the music queued up ready to play to fire
51:08
up the audience here. What's going to be the
51:11
keynote walk up song that you guys would like
51:13
played? Well, depends on the vibe of the conference.
51:18
I could probably choose a keynote song from just
51:21
about any genre. But I have like a top two. One
51:25
would be Champion by Carrie Underwood. Kind of
51:29
like more of a upbeat. Rock ish type of song
51:33
really fun. And then if we're looking for just
51:37
kind of like upbeat, but not so hard. Good Day
51:42
by Forrest Frank is also a fun one that I would
51:45
probably throw in there. Okay. So I don't have
51:49
an immediate answer for this. We chatted a little
51:52
bit before this and I thought, I don't have a
51:54
keynote song. I just, I walk up to whatever you
51:56
got me. I feel like you're gonna know my vibe
51:58
once we show up and that you're ready, especially
52:00
if I'm on day two. And so whatever song Kara
52:04
doesn't use, I would like to go ahead and just
52:06
take her second. Yeah, but if you think so, we
52:12
play music in our sessions and in our PDs and
52:16
stuff. You really like the Can't Stop the Feeling.
52:19
Oh, I do like that. You always jam out to that
52:22
song when we play it. So that could at least
52:25
be on the list. There it is. Can't Stop the Feeling.
52:29
Justin Timberlake. Exactly. Okay, so we wanna
52:35
just give you a chance here for those that are
52:38
listening, where can people find you? What type
52:41
of things do you have coming up or things that
52:43
you wanna plug? Obviously the book, all the things
52:46
that we can add to our notes so people can access
52:48
that. Yeah, you can find us on every social media
52:52
handle. Kara does an amazing job pushing us out
52:55
through there. So Instagram, Facebook, you name
52:57
it. Like we said before, we have that podcast
53:00
and YouTube channel, Integrated EDU. We have
53:02
our book. It's on YouthLite is our publisher
53:05
or on Amazon, that elevated educator. And coming
53:09
up wise, we get to work with a lot of schools
53:13
coming up that back to school. We were at a few
53:16
conferences coming up. So we're just kind of
53:18
everywhere. the things and of course that the
53:22
we have some teacher coaching things that we're
53:24
doing also so educators that kind of are needing
53:27
some one -off things and they they want some
53:29
help planning we're doing that kind of work too
53:31
yeah we're very excited all of our socials our
53:34
handle is integrated k -12 linkedin is integrated
53:38
edu same as our youtube so and we post kind of
53:42
Where we're going to be and what we're going
53:44
to be doing. So if you're curious where we're
53:46
going to be at in the next, we have a couple
53:48
conferences coming up in the next couple months
53:50
as well as just kind of the. Schools and coaching
53:54
and things like that, but make sure to check
53:56
us out there We have it's always great when some
53:58
educators figure out where we're gonna be and
54:00
then they go to that conference We have had that
54:04
before and it's pretty amazing to see because
54:07
you're like You just don't expect that to happen
54:09
to you when you first start speaking and doing
54:12
the things you're like You just you just never
54:14
expect that to happen. So we have had it and
54:16
it's pretty amazing. Yeah, very cool Okay, is
54:19
Minnesota on the list yet? Actually, yes, it
54:25
is not at 2027. So I'll have to talk about that.
54:28
Yes. Okay. Cool. The most current will be in
54:33
Biloxi Mississippi in September. There's a catalyst
54:37
conference. So, yeah, looking forward. Awesome.
54:41
Well, everybody go check out Kara and Meg on
54:43
socials. Make sure if you're close to an event
54:46
and you can make it, go check that out too. But
54:48
Kara, Meg, we want to just thank you again for
54:50
joining us and telling us all about your work.
54:54
Yeah. Thank you so much for having us. We appreciate
54:56
you. Thanks for listening to Integrate This.
55:01
Want to take your learning further? Head over
55:03
to our YouTube channel for quick tutorials, deep
55:05
dives, and more ed tech tips you can use right
55:08
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55:12
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or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next
55:19
time, keep exploring, keep innovating and keep
55:23
integrating this.