Latest / Identity at the Center / #136 - DREAMing about Identity Fabrics with Paul Fisher

Transcript

#136 - DREAMing about Identity Fabrics with Paul Fisher · Identity at the Center

0:09
You're listening to the identity of the center podcast, this is
0:13
the show that talks about identity and access management
0:15
and making sure you know who has access to what let's get
0:18
started. Welcome to the identity of the
0:26
sender podcast. I'm Jeff Fenton that's Jim.
0:28
Hey Jim hey Jeff, how are you? Oh not so bad yourself.
0:33
I'm doing great and giving a lot of thought to a specific topic
0:39
today which is kind of round what we do, right?
0:41
We are the, I am strategist that companies bring in to help them
0:46
develop their IM strategy. So we're supposed to be the
0:50
experts, right? And the idea would be that you
0:53
could take Some very specific area of I am like privileged
0:58
access management or identity governance and, you know, her
1:02
role management and be able to dive into any specific area.
1:06
But what I find, we always have to do is make sure that we still
1:11
have a very sharp answer on the basics.
1:14
What is governance? What is an IM program?
1:18
So Jeff, I've got a question for you.
1:20
What is I? Okay, so existential question.
1:24
Thank you know, who am I? What are you all kinds of
1:29
different things. Here's my, here's my, my short
1:32
version of what is I am, it's who has access to, what?
1:34
That's it. That's it.
1:35
That's the, that's the distillation of it.
1:38
More complex. Yes.
1:39
There are more things that come into it, but that's it, right?
1:42
I think so. You have to be able to go down
1:45
the side Paths of there's more things to it because I think
1:48
about governance. And I remember some bleep
1:51
somebody boiling down to me, In these terms, it's who gets to
1:56
make what decisions like. Yeah, that's pretty much what
2:01
governance is at the core, but there's so much more to it,
2:04
right? There's, you know, kind of a
2:06
framework for formally. How you run your program, how
2:10
you keep involvement of your stakeholders, things like that.
2:12
But if starting from a base explanation like who gets to
2:17
make, what's Visions is really good.
2:20
Starting point, just like I am saying who has access to what
2:23
that's Great. There's more to it though.
2:26
Well, it's kind of like, you know, it's a racy for real life.
2:28
Who's accountable signing, my wife and Iraq, same conversation
2:31
about this last night because we have really great dinner
2:34
conversations when we're talking about race, he's at dinner but
2:38
it's the same thing. It's yeah.
2:40
Who can make what decision ultimately?
2:42
You know, it's like Highlander there can only be one who is the
2:45
A and the decision, you know, rests on and they're accountable
2:50
for they may not make the decision but there are
2:54
Honorable, for whatever that decision is, which can be caused
2:59
from, you know, an important area of I am I think we always
3:02
focus on who has access to what but what about when that who is
3:07
not a who or it's a non carbon-based life-forms, we
3:11
nerds like to say or a silicon-based life-form in other
3:15
words it's that machine identity and I think that's one of the
3:19
topics we're going to dig into today.
3:21
Yeah, it's pretty interesting where we're getting right here.
3:24
You know, this there was a news article this week that the US
3:28
patent office has basically said, AI is not allowed to
3:32
patent. Thanks.
3:34
So it has to be a human, so I guess that's good news.
3:37
Is we've staved off the, the robot Overlord Invasion for at
3:40
least a little bit of time before they take over.
3:43
But machine identity, for example is very difficult.
3:46
Now we're talking about box now we start to get into, okay, how
3:50
do we kind of weave these things together between humans?
3:54
Nonhumans and, you know, at some point there's probably a whole
3:57
bunch of in-betweens in that and there's this concept of an
4:00
identity fabric that kind of is the is the pattern or quilt or
4:05
whatever. So analogy we want to use that
4:08
is intended to kind of pull all this together in a way that
4:11
makes sense. And why don't we bring in our
4:14
guest for for this week to help us with that conversation?
4:18
His name is Paul Fisher. He's the lean Analyst at Cooper.
4:20
Nicole, Welcome to the show. Paul.
4:22
Hi, thanks for having me. Yeah, thank you so much for
4:25
joining us and I believe you're coming from the UK and having
4:29
this conversation with us is that right?
4:31
I am, I mean area, cooled. Tweaking them in London, greater
4:35
London trick them. If you don't know, it is famous
4:37
for its rugby ground or rugby stadium.
4:40
I should say it's known as the home of the English rugby, which
4:46
is great, except I not interested in rugby at all.
4:50
So that's the only claim to fame.
4:54
What we have here. So, we have some big rugby
4:57
matches Internationals and things.
5:00
But but yeah, great to be here joining you from London.
5:05
Well, thank you so much for joining us.
5:07
And, you know, one of the things that we like to get into here is
5:11
kind of background of the folks that we have on the show to
5:14
really kind of understand the Viewpoint that they're coming at
5:16
this conversation from. So I know we're going to talk
5:19
about machine identities at any fabrics and all kind of all the
5:22
stuff in between, but But before we get into that, how did you
5:26
get into identity and access management?
5:28
Is it something that you chose or did it choose you?
5:32
Yeah, well, I think it kind of chose me really.
5:34
I mean it's if we go back not going to go back to the entire
5:40
of my life but appropriately, I used to be an IT journalist for
5:45
many years up until about the early 2000s and as you probably
5:50
know it journalism was Fairly insecure occupation then and
5:59
it's now almost doesn't exist. So after a few are went to some
6:05
places like AOL which also proved to be less than fruitful.
6:10
And then a few years ago, I became the editor of a magazine
6:16
called SC or secure Computing. So that was my real introduction
6:21
to I guess the world of cyber security And from then on into,
6:26
you know, sub areas like identity and access management
6:29
and then I got into becoming an analyst and it was not a coming
6:35
a call where I am now. But a previous analyst, firm was
6:38
where I first started to really start.
6:40
Looking at identity and privileged access management and
6:44
related areas in more detail and started sort of taking it
6:48
seriously or suppose. So yeah, it's probably not
6:51
something that I would have chosen if I was given a list of
6:53
things. To specialize in.
6:56
I don't know if identity access management would have been right
6:59
up there. But as you, it is actually
7:03
turned out to be the, it sounds like a damning it with faint
7:09
praise, but it's a lot more interesting than you might think
7:11
so. So yeah, I'm a leader but I
7:15
should say I'm a lead analyst. I don't want my colleagues at
7:19
coping de to get upset when I sound like, I'm the lead analyst
7:23
only. He one of the few lead analyst
7:26
we had, that's our hierarchy and of course we have Martin who is
7:30
our our Overlord and it were the lead lead out and well yeah.
7:35
He's the Uber analyst I guess is one way of saying it so yeah.
7:41
And that's where I am now. And I've been a carpenter for to
7:46
nearly three years. Paul, what are the areas of I am
7:48
that? You focus on.
7:50
Yeah, so I was given Privileged access management as one of my
7:56
sort of key topics at coping a. And so I've really focused on
8:01
that quite a lot in the last two years but it's recently been
8:07
branching out a lot more into identity and access management
8:11
in more General. And then looking at things that
8:16
you mentioned earlier, the top there things like our identity
8:19
Fabric and dream which is our latest sort of Paradigm for
8:25
managing identities within multi Cloud.
8:28
Infrastructures Etc. So I also do some related stuff.
8:33
So submitted data governance. Things like that but I think
8:41
that really everything. One thing I know about it now or
8:47
or identity is the more you know the kind of the less you know it
8:53
just gets More complicate just when you think you've kind of
8:56
cracked it or you don't. Yeah.
8:58
That that'll solve everything. It did.
9:02
It gets worse. You start to realize how much
9:05
you don't know. Yeah, yeah.
9:08
And I don't know a lot over well you do know you you do you do
9:14
know enough to have a good conversation about?
9:19
I think we're going to get into the privileged access management
9:22
side of things but this It's like doing the fabric and it's
9:26
kind of a new term, right? And it's something that you guys
9:30
have spun up at KCI believe but let's start with that kind of
9:34
the basic question like Jeff and I were yammering on about where
9:40
you know, let's not just assume we know what identity fabric is
9:43
based on, you know, with the name implies.
9:48
Let's just ask the question. What is the identity fabric?
9:51
Yeah, I think people live. The word identity fabric
9:56
suggests a kind of a cloak almost or something.
9:59
You wrap around an infrastructure and almost as an
10:05
extra layer of security and I think that is probably
10:09
misleading. The way I describe it is that it
10:14
puts identity at the center of everything.
10:19
Not the infrastructure. So instead of making identity
10:23
and access management have to meet the requirements of the
10:27
infrastructure, you need to build the infrastructure around
10:31
identity and access management or more particularly around
10:34
identity. But that's the kind of
10:38
philosophical view. But more what we're talking
10:43
about is an Adaptive set of capabilities.
10:49
So your identity and access management platform, we all
10:54
solutions are adaptive and can be changed and change as your
11:00
demands change. So I think it's really about
11:04
modernization of identity access management.
11:07
It's about fluidity agility in all those buzzwords but probably
11:15
are sort of key to our discussion is that we're moving
11:20
away from a world of just simply human identities or traditional
11:28
privileged accounts into a world where we don't really know half
11:33
of the identities that exists in an order or the identities that
11:40
maybe having some access to the infrastructures that we have.
11:43
So we need and that obviously includes things like machine
11:46
identities. Occations little bits of code
11:51
and all sorts of stuff. That's now, buzzing around
11:54
infrastructure and I'm sort of known it cooking a call for
11:59
coming up with the universe of this and a universe of that and
12:04
I think that we often see it. Infrastructures as kind of
12:08
linear structures with things sticking off at right angles and
12:13
this way and then there's a server there and there's
12:14
something else there and I think it's becoming much more like
12:19
Like the Amazon rainforest or or a coral reef kind of ecosystem
12:26
where there is just millions of life forms that all depend on
12:31
each other and they all run around and it's actually harder
12:36
to visualize that or to make sense of it and it is to
12:40
actually just think about the identities that are using it.
12:45
And if you think concentrate on the identity, What they need
12:50
access to what role they have and how long they need access,
12:54
it shouldn't matter so much what the infrastructure looks like.
12:57
So that's what kind of turning it everything inside out.
13:00
And that's that's I hope describes what we mean by an
13:05
identity fabric. That's pretty easily actually.
13:08
Yeah, that's that's even more philosophical than I even
13:13
contemplated. Obviously, we came to podcast
13:16
identity at the center, so we kind of have a Similar
13:19
Viewpoint, right? Which is that you have and we've
13:24
seen this in our careers major shifts in the technology
13:28
landscape from. You know the on-prem data center
13:33
environment to now very much a cloud-based environment, who
13:37
knows maybe it'll shift back the other way at some point that's
13:41
the way I T has seemed to go throughout our career and kind
13:45
of prior to our career was shifts back and forth.
13:49
And I mean, if anybody thinks that things are going to stay
13:52
static for the next hundred years you're you're out of your
13:55
mind, right? I mean we know changes the one
13:58
thing that we can be sure of, but what I think is important is
14:02
that, that idea of, if you have good controls around the
14:07
identity, they should be able to adapt to that infrastructure.
14:11
Yeah, I mean by T is all about people doing stuff right in the
14:17
end. It's all about applications,
14:20
doing stuff and increasingly, there are more and more
14:23
applications, and people are now used to downloading an app and
14:27
then immediately using it. So you're right about things.
14:32
Do come around. Oh, I mean, I remember back in
14:36
the 90s, everyone was talking about the network computer and
14:41
what a great idea that was because you have a dumb terminal
14:45
and you just fire up a virtual machine and You'd connect just
14:50
for your work that you needed you to get the applications you
14:53
needed etcetera. When you shut it off.
14:56
That was it was, it was gone forever and I think we sort of
15:00
almost talking about that again. Now, with web applications
15:05
except it's much more sophisticated and you can do so
15:09
much more. I mean, I think those dumb
15:10
terminals had some kind of browser-based applications.
15:16
I can't remember now because Actually they came and went, we
15:22
talked about on-premises dying the little but I agree with you.
15:27
It's actually if you talk to people in the real world they
15:29
still like to have stuff on premise and so the yeah, even
15:38
people are still using mainframes.
15:40
I found out the other day, so which was because even
15:45
mainframes even predate me and you I'm sure so.
15:49
Oh, for sure. A Jeff and I we had a client
15:52
that has over 100 mainframes without a strategy to get off
15:57
the Mainframe. So that means it's going to
16:00
they're going to be around for quite a while.
16:03
I've um, well, yeah. Exactly.
16:07
IBM. Still, they're still selling
16:08
them and doing quite a good business.
16:11
I think out of Mainframe stuff and they say that they have
16:14
people that actively ask for him.
16:16
So yeah, but I But what is different though?
16:21
Is to get to the point of our discussion is the number of
16:25
identities. The number of access points the
16:31
number of privileged accounts and then I was talking to a
16:37
vendor the other day. They claimed that when their
16:42
solution was installed by their customer, they found 10 million,
16:49
Privileged accounts or other sorry to clarify, that found 10
16:54
million standing privileged accounts.
16:58
So that was 10 million accounts that have been opened and never
17:01
closed. And we're basically an open,
17:07
exactly. But I was staggered at like 10
17:10
million, 10 million accounts have been created over the years
17:14
I guess, never been controlled and that's where the philosophy.
17:18
She comes up against the reality, I guess, of, of
17:24
business Computing. And that's the other thing that
17:27
I try to bring into whatever I write is that we are in the end
17:34
talking about Business Solutions and sometimes you know, in our
17:39
world it's easy to get carried away with the technology and
17:42
like and say talk about the coral reef or the Amazon
17:45
rainforest and things like that. But there's Reason why this
17:49
stuff exists is because businesses want to do stuff and
17:54
if we take, you know, the car industry automotive industry.
17:59
As a good example. They've literally they are
18:03
example of digital transformation in action.
18:07
They're moving from an engineering lead industry into a
18:11
software LED one. And they are the people that are
18:15
actually the customers for all this stuff they are the people
18:18
that really We are trying to manage all these identities in a
18:21
real-world. So as I said, we can talk about
18:25
philosophies. But the way that when we talk
18:29
about the identity fabric where, where is all way of kind of
18:33
clarifying, what people need to do to manage what's going on in
18:38
their organizations. I think it's the evolution of
18:41
the business process. Like he just mentioned right
18:43
used to these things, didn't exist, 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago.
18:47
So these Process is now being replaced by software, right?
18:51
Software is eating the world as I think, you know, one of the
18:54
statements that's kind of been out there and I guess from a,
18:59
from a management perspective. And when I think management
19:02
thing identity management, you know, we have this kind of core
19:05
concept of human versus non human.
19:08
And now I'm thinking of more like doesn't matter so much.
19:11
It's just an entity that needs access.
19:14
Does it really matter if it's a human or not?
19:16
Because at the end of the day, it's still who has access As to
19:19
what and is it appropriate, right?
19:20
And all those kind of key things go along with it.
19:23
I guess I'm wondering from your perspective do you see it that
19:26
way as well? But also in addition to that,
19:29
How do machine identities fit into this?
19:31
What's so special about them? And I guess are they special
19:35
when it comes onto any fabric? Yeah well I think you kind of
19:38
set it there in the end. Does it actually matter what the
19:42
identity is that is trying to access a own identity is trying
19:47
to access Server, you have to, just does it matter whether
19:53
that's human or non-human or machine or not machine, which is
19:56
now the cool way to say human and non-human.
19:59
So so machine and not machine to get ready for our overlords
20:06
exactly what seems to me. Like that's more machine.
20:09
Positive language that we're using.
20:11
Yeah, if we say, well, you either a machine or you're not?
20:15
So, let's assume that anyway. And I Entity wants to do
20:19
something in a network, really? If the identity access
20:25
management or the privileged access management is set up
20:28
correctly. It should know, not what that
20:33
identity is, but what it's trying to do, and what it's
20:36
trying to access and whether that's okay, really?
20:42
Because the the network doesn't know, you know, when when things
20:47
have been switched, they do. Whether it's a human or
20:51
non-human or an application is looking for Access.
20:55
So why do we care so much? And I think the vendors are
20:59
coming around to that quite a lot as well as particularly in
21:02
privileged access management. They didn't used to talk about
21:05
machines very much. Now, they talk about them all
21:07
the time. They spoke about admins which is
21:12
kind of seems now like a really kind of slightly prosaic thing,
21:17
you know, the old Edmonds that need access to your, to end
21:22
point to, to squirt, to do something.
21:27
You know, who knows what happens Arabic were admins?
21:32
Why are they human? Probably not, you know, service
21:35
accounts do stuff like that. So, my view is that there is
21:41
nothing special about machine identities, particularly any
21:44
more than there's nothing special about human identities.
21:47
I think there are Just identities or entities, which I
21:51
think you said as well, which is probably even better to talk
21:54
about entities and it's just the sheer, the sheer pace of
22:02
everything as well as you know, Financial Services is another
22:06
example of digital transformation in action has
22:10
gone from a very staid industry to one that's embraced software.
22:14
Development is Embrace agile and devops and everything because
22:19
They need to create code all the time, so we can't get in the way
22:24
of that. And, and we've established that.
22:27
Now, as a way of working in an event, in the software companies
22:32
themselves are doing the same thing, you know.
22:35
So which, you know, brings us on to things like software supply
22:39
chain security which which is related to all this but it Dad.
22:47
I just think that Yeah, my view is an eye, what the identity is
22:52
really doesn't matter. You know, I think there are
22:55
implications for the I am practitioner in the difference
23:01
between human and non-human, identities.
23:04
And I come at it from this standpoint, I feel like it's
23:08
gotten very good in terms of managing the human identities,
23:13
especially in the Enterprise contacts especially with
23:17
employees yourself. Employees in the HR System, when
23:21
they join the organization lead, the organization change shot
23:25
rolls. That's the quote, unquote,
23:27
authoritative Source. Ideally, you either have a
23:30
parallel for non-employees or there, maybe even in your HR
23:34
System. However, when it comes to
23:38
non-human identities, it could be a number of stories.
23:42
When you have that Dev psi-cops environment, you have developers
23:45
who now need to create machine accounts to think.
23:48
Go through some Central process to make sure that, you know,
23:53
it's going through proper channels for approval and being
23:56
documented, do you have a way to discover if you're creating
24:01
those identities out of process? And then with service accounts,
24:07
I mean, the ideal scenario is you, you do go through some kind
24:11
of ticketing system. There's a paper trail for the
24:15
request and approval of the creation service account.
24:18
And then you're managing the service account, life cycle,
24:23
including management of the credential.
24:26
So, you know, I you password, make sure you're rotating the
24:29
password and no humans are the past for because, you know, we
24:33
kind of joked earlier about the attack.
24:35
Surface machine identities. Can multiply your attack surface
24:41
especially if you're not if you don't have good controls over
24:45
over those machine identity. So I don't think There are
24:49
different in terms of, you know, a lot of the aspects you just
24:53
talked about. I guess my thing, I wanted to
24:56
bring to the table, is we've done.
24:58
We've gotten down to really best practices for management of the
25:04
humans. And I think for the nonhumans
25:07
is, its were the state of maturity of organizations at a
25:16
hot as a whole, is not Nearly as good as it is with humans.
25:21
So you're saying that where we've kind of got human
25:25
identities, pretty much under control give or take but the the
25:30
machine identities are, we're way off that.
25:34
Is that where we? I think the 80/20, that's what I
25:37
see. Yeah.
25:40
You see, that's why I don't know whether that's where that's
25:43
true. I think that, I mean, in
25:46
privileged access management there.
25:48
There is now a kind of a divided opening up between newer vendors
25:55
smaller startup type of guys that have built Cloud native
25:59
applications from the ground up versus the Cyber arcs.
26:04
The Beyond trust the well, I was going to say that.
26:08
Okay, then centrify, but they're now called de línea and who come
26:14
from the very regulated Bolt. Password rotation, set up versus
26:23
the newer, guys, which have decided.
26:27
Yeah, you can have a v if you want, but we're just going to do
26:31
just in time. For the reason being.
26:36
We know that there's this whole new world of influx of
26:39
identities that want privileged access to stuff and we don't
26:46
think there's time to issue. You passwords or anything else,
26:50
but just manage those identities equally and give them just in
26:55
time access when and when they need it.
26:58
So that the problem with that, is that there is an argument
27:03
that that isn't secure enough, the, the older, more established
27:08
players or so. Yeah, but you don't have any
27:11
analytics. You don't have any governance,
27:15
you don't what happens when when it doesn't work.
27:19
How you going to find it? Like you mentioned a paper trail
27:23
so it's probably easier to do that with humans.
27:27
I don't know, but I think ultimately we will see Pam
27:32
become much more focused on just in time and ephemeral, but will
27:36
become better. Those vendors that are emerging
27:40
will become better at the stuff that they're missing at the
27:43
moment. So I think my money would be if
27:46
I was betting on on Pam. I'm itself.
27:49
My money would be on some of those vendors for the, for a
27:52
long-term future bet, but I still think the in the end we
27:57
haven't got time to worry about whether humans or machines or or
28:02
aliens or whatever else, once once access to do our
28:10
businesses. So we have our guests on our
28:13
last episode, Mike Frazier, VP of devops over it sofa.
28:18
Assuming he quoted the Star Trek resistance is futile.
28:24
Yeah, welcome to the board but I did want to, this is exactly why
28:32
having you on the show is, is so cool because you've got a
28:37
different perspective as an analyst you're out there.
28:40
Seeing what's coming, what are these new inventions in this
28:45
space? The new players in, you know,
28:48
You're getting an earlier view of that, whereas, I think Jeff
28:51
and I are going into organizations and we're trying
28:54
to talk about best practices that are being used in the
28:59
industry. So it's lagging a little bit
29:01
behind kind of the The Cutting Edge.
29:04
What's new? But also from an analyst
29:08
perspective, you're also working on new Frameworks and New
29:12
Concepts ways of thinking about things.
29:14
You've got a concept called dream and I, you know, I see
29:18
that Can I have a dream or living the dream but give us an
29:23
idea of what it is. So is Dr. E, am talk to us about
29:28
what that is. What is Dream?
29:30
Well first, what is your point on your right?
29:33
You probably we do, we don't live in a fantasy world but we
29:35
do live in a world where perhaps we're predicting what's going to
29:39
happen but then that's our business.
29:42
I guess. So dream as you say they used to
29:48
be A pop group in England, called D Rim, which was D
29:52
stroke. Re am for some reason.
29:55
So, I tend to in my head OS, a dream, but to be serious.
30:00
What it stands for is denying Dynamic resource entitlement and
30:07
access management. So we've we've seen that the
30:13
market is changing to accommodate multi Multi Cloud
30:20
infrastructures hybrid structures, Etc.
30:23
And Gartner came up with Kim or their Cloud infrastructure,
30:29
entitlement management grouping and we've sort of taken that a
30:35
bit further. So, yeah, I think Gartner was
30:39
right to identify Kim and also Cloud security posture
30:46
management which that I think they've now Merged into into
30:51
another acronym that which I forget right now but they work
30:54
their a right to see that cloud entitlement and access
30:59
management was well that needed managing and there was an
31:04
emergence of vendors to do all that.
31:08
And but we noticed as I kind of hinted just now that within the
31:13
pad Market itself, first of all, they had I started to understand
31:22
the unique needs of the devops or Dev secure Ops and agile
31:27
groups in getting privileged access to stuff quickly.
31:34
And so that invariably meant the devops tend to work Almost 100%
31:40
in the cloud and use cloud resources.
31:43
So we thought, well, that's that's actually a cloud
31:46
infrastructure, entitlement management.
31:48
Thing. But then there is also these
31:52
vendors themselves which are now doing Kim.
31:55
So we thought, well, let's put those together and we got that.
32:02
The world is moving to Dynamic, infrastructures.
32:06
Everything is in and out. Things are scalar, spun up and
32:09
spun down quite often privileges, open and often left
32:15
open and things like that, which is part of the Will this
32:21
managers? It managers increasingly have
32:24
not much control over lines of business that are downloading
32:30
stuff. Building machine building
32:32
virtual machines, building code in their departments.
32:36
So if they can't Direct in the old days you know in the old
32:41
days of perimeters Etc and and firewalls they could have just
32:46
stopped people doing that but it's out.
32:47
It's no longer there. It's no longer possible.
32:50
Plus they have the business side of the Enterprise could actively
32:56
encourages stuff because like I said, the car industry.
32:59
Once those guys to be building a new bit of software for their
33:02
latest electric vehicle, and they want that to be updated
33:06
over the air as often as possible.
33:08
So, we've brought together all of that and we've doing a
33:13
leadership Compass, which I should explain a leadership.
33:17
Compass is a report that You're cold does on a particular
33:21
product sector. So we've kind of invented this
33:24
dream sector which is what got a does.
33:28
So why can't we do it? And we've invited the number of
33:35
Pam vendors that perhaps do some Cloud management or do some Pam
33:41
for devops plus, a number of the dedicated Kim vendors, all of
33:47
which seem to have I've been from my research so far.
33:52
Most of these came vendors didn't exist, five years ago.
33:56
So it's a really new part of the business and they're all, you
34:02
know, small startup type of outfits.
34:07
But they're all attracting a lot of money from the VC community,
34:12
so that that's what dream is it's our assessment.
34:18
Of any platform that can discover and can manage access
34:29
or rather. Sorry could discover those
34:31
identities. They have access to Cloud,
34:33
resources and can manage that access usually from some kind of
34:38
dashboard and can switch that off or switch it on can prevent
34:44
access, but it crucially, it can do.
34:48
It can actually look at things which are happening on Amazon
34:53
web services, so gets quite granular or it can, you know,
34:57
they, most of these Kim platforms, are not all of the
35:01
Pam platforms, actually will cover the four main Cloud
35:06
providers. So, but they, as I said, they
35:11
are mostly dashboard driven are mostly web based on our web
35:15
application and the kid ones in particular.
35:18
Killer, a really quite exciting. I mean, they are and this is
35:23
where I probably get a bit overexcited because I was about
35:29
to say they're quite fun to use, but I think the the fact that
35:34
they work in a dashboard and you can see the entitlement, you can
35:40
see who has access, you can see getting back to whether they're
35:44
humans are machines. You can see what kind of
35:46
identity it is. So, That's that's for us is our
35:51
way of making sense of this trying to manage everything
35:56
moving to the cloud and hybrid clouds.
36:00
And that comes back to what I was saying earlier.
36:02
Like it the the dashboard is is a focus.
36:07
Their the dashboard is the focus on identities and their
36:10
activities and what they're accessing what's around that
36:15
dashboard is kind of the infrastructure.
36:18
And that doesn't really matter to what you're seeing within it.
36:22
So I hope that explains dream I think.
36:27
Actually I explained it to myself quite well there.
36:29
So I think I understand it better as well.
36:31
So and that report is as I said I'm working on right now and
36:38
we'll publish it in May sometime.
36:43
So yeah, the dream dream on the I Have a Dream and there it is.
36:48
Is what's a great acronym? And I guess I've got to follow
36:52
up questions for you. The first is stupid.
36:54
My stupid question is what comes first.
36:56
Is it the identification of a space like this or do you come
37:00
up with the acronym and say how do we fit I am?
37:04
Well that's that's a that's a trade secret because heaven
37:09
forbid that I have a bid that we would come up with something as
37:12
nice as dream and then fit everything around it.
37:16
But in this case, yeah, I mean We wanted the word dynamic in
37:20
there, so, because I think Dynamic does it does describe
37:26
what's happening quite well. I cut, one of my colleagues came
37:30
up with this. I can't remember which one but
37:34
we, yeah, we went through. We, the process is that, yeah,
37:38
we realize that something is happening.
37:40
Perhaps in the market, we realize that there are vendors
37:44
doing some new things. And we notice that the way,
37:48
Businesses have been doing infrastructure is changing.
37:51
So yeah, so then we think well that's seems to be a new
37:56
category of platform or product and then we think of the the
38:03
acronym afterwards. So I'm sure that's what I
38:07
imagine is like a whiteboard somewhere with just a whole
38:09
bunch of like terms and then it's a little bit like Mad Libs
38:13
or some word game, right? Where you trying to, to order
38:16
them in a way that makes them sort of, you know, D sounding
38:19
effort. Mm, yeah.
38:20
I think we might have might have had D Ram or something before
38:24
before. Someone said, hang on or but
38:29
yeah, whiteboard is a very popular tool with my boss
38:33
Martin. Actually, he loves the Microsoft
38:36
whiteboard. I mean, you know, the you the
38:38
one that comes comes thrown in, with teams, Etc.
38:41
So that's the process. And as I said, I, I love talking
38:48
to These some of these new vendors as well.
38:50
Because it kind of really enthusiastic about what they do
38:55
and most of them have some track record in identity business that
39:01
gives us the way to say. They've done startups in the
39:05
past and now they're doing that another one and so on.
39:08
So it's it's a great time to be covering identity.
39:13
I think. Well, speaking of kind of a
39:15
space, you know, Mike the second part of my question.
39:18
A follow-up is, I can't imagine that the established privileged
39:22
privileged access management players, right?
39:25
And we only think of kind of like the big ones cyber-ark
39:28
Beyond trusts you psychotic, you know, all the ones that are out
39:32
there is that they're going to see this ground willingly.
39:36
And so, when I see a bunch of these little startups, kind of
39:38
come up with new technology, hmm, it almost strikes me as
39:42
like, okay, either cyber-ark, which is pick on cyber cyber are
39:46
Kirby on trust, right? These are going to build it
39:48
themselves. Themselves or they're going to
39:49
go out and acquire one of these smaller startups and kind of
39:52
augment their existing solution to become, you know, that much
39:55
more complete from a service offering.
39:58
Do you see a consolidation taking place in this space that
40:01
would merge privileged access management with Cloud
40:06
infrastructure? Entitlement management or
40:08
dynamic? I'm not going to get it right?
40:10
But then, you know, the dream, the dynamic resource,
40:13
allocation, things like that. What is happening?
40:17
I think. Let's let's take cyber up again.
40:21
They've actually Rebrand not rebranded but they've kind of re
40:27
pitched the entire business along identity now rather than
40:31
privileged access management and they have now got a crowd
40:37
entitlement tool within their portfolio so that's their way of
40:42
responding and be on trust. I'm sure are looking at it the
40:48
same way. Way, I think we will see some
40:51
Acquisitions, maybe some of the, the maybe one of the two of the
40:57
Kim providers. The problem with that is that
41:00
the Kim providers. Also offer some form of
41:03
privileged access management within their own platform and I
41:10
would say that I wouldn't say that the the big players are
41:15
threatened or you know there's still plenty of Out there for
41:19
Pam, pure Pam but I don't think it's as easy as them acquiring,
41:27
perhaps a Kim startup because the technology is so different
41:33
and they built this stuff. Like I said, Cloud native, it's
41:38
so up to date. You know it's built for cloud
41:42
environments. So we are seeing like a, I think
41:48
The last few years there has been some consolidation in Pam
41:53
psychotic and and centrify as we mentioned have merged into now
42:00
called de línea. So they're in the process of
42:04
merging two sets of of capabilities into one which
42:11
either suggest that they felt that scale will help them
42:16
compete. Or that that was the way to
42:22
compete with say be on trust and cyber-ark cyber-ark.
42:27
As I said, their response has been to change the focus
42:32
slightly so they are looking to reinvent themselves.
42:37
I think cyber-ark have the resources and expertise to do
42:42
that, but we're also seeing some traditional identity.
42:48
Petit players moving into this Market as well as sale point and
42:55
doctoral playing a little bit in privileged access management.
42:59
And then of course the cloud providers themselves they all
43:03
have some level of privileged access management built in
43:06
automatically as does Microsoft so far.
43:09
None of those have really shown much interest in developing it
43:13
beyond their own proprietary system.
43:17
So, This movement going on. But it doesn't, I mean the
43:21
number of Pam. If I talk about another report,
43:25
I do Pam leadership Compass the number of vendors in that has
43:29
actually stayed about the same even within consolidation.
43:34
There are some newer within with empowerment self.
43:38
There are also some newer more Cloud native Pam providers
43:42
coming up. So it's a market that is really
43:48
in a great state of flux. The other thing that is
43:55
affecting this is software supply chain.
43:57
So not exactly an identity matter in the classical sense,
44:06
but all these devops guys, and all these people doing stuff
44:11
with open source code, for example, create some kind of
44:16
Threat, Vector it, but just by doing In that.
44:19
And that stuff is all mixed up in this, you know,
44:23
infrastructure that we're talking about.
44:25
So it's, it's a fascinating world and I think, yeah, I look
44:30
forward to seeing what it looks like, maybe in five years time,
44:34
I predict that some of these Kim providers will get swallowed up.
44:38
They'll merge or they'll get bought out by perhaps a bigger
44:42
player. Microsoft, in fact did acquire a
44:48
Actually, I'm pretty sure they acquired a Kim vending of the
44:51
nice things. Yeah.
44:55
Is that right? I think I'm right on the in, so
45:00
that could happen with Microsoft.
45:02
Haven't done much with it so far, but it was only a few
45:04
months ago, so we'll see. Yeah.
45:07
Where is the throw a few thoughts out there, myself all?
45:11
Because I think you're from a customer perspective, customers
45:16
don't want to have to keep going and finding new Vendors to solve
45:19
these problems. I also think though one of the
45:23
challenges is that you know Pam was designed around the
45:28
traditional on-prem. Now you've got infrastructure as
45:33
a service and there are companies who strategies to say,
45:37
we're all in on a particular infrastructure, whether it's
45:41
Amazon, Google, Microsoft, you name it, then there are others
45:46
that say we're going to let Let our it teams, our business
45:50
teams, choose the cloud that works best for them.
45:55
And that latter scenario to me, it seems like that's the
45:59
messaging from the Kim providers is, you know, you, you know, to
46:03
try to manage identity across these clouds which all operate
46:08
very differently in terms of how they managed identity, you need
46:13
a tool and your traditional Pam can't do that.
46:18
I think from a customer perspective, still they want
46:23
their Pam tool to be able to extend into the cloud.
46:27
And if they choose one cloud provider, say Amazon, I don't
46:32
want to have to buy a separate tool to manage that.
46:36
So I feel like there's this kind of tug of war and was being lost
46:41
as what the customer really wants, which is support for the
46:46
quote-unquote hybrid. Enterprise, which is almost
46:50
everybody there. You know, other than small
46:53
organizations you have both, you know, some very small
46:57
organization might be all Cloud. I don't, I haven't run into a
47:02
organization recently that has no Cloud right.
47:05
Almost I say basically, every large organization has some
47:10
Cloud infrastructure now. So I think companies won't, you
47:15
know, one tool. So either for Pam to have the
47:19
Keen capabilities or a keen player to stand up and say, oh,
47:25
by the way, we can do your on-premise infrastructure as
47:28
well, we can do password vault in Your Privilege session
47:31
management and that audit Trail, we can do the whole nine yards.
47:36
So to me, that's that's the ground where we hit the most
47:40
success. What are your thoughts there?
47:42
Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think the the, the
47:47
organization's Also used multiple clouds from different
47:50
vendors, so they'll probably use Azure and Google and they might
47:54
not even know who's using. What?
47:59
Yeah, I get that. The if you went for a Kim
48:03
vendors, say right now, they're not going to be able to do the
48:07
traditional Pam stuff. On the other hand, the more
48:13
traditional Pam providers are probably not as good or as fast.
48:19
At managing identity access to Cloud resources.
48:24
But I think this this conundrum is, is long-standing this this
48:32
the idea that a customer will get something and that's it.
48:39
This will last for a decade and will we won't will the vendor
48:45
will provide enough upgrades for us to keep to to keep in in
48:50
touch with our own changing circumstances.
48:56
I don't think that'll ever happen, you know?
48:59
I just think it's it's a bit like you know, you buy, you buy
49:02
an iPhone or tablet, two years later, you realize that it's no
49:06
longer fast enough or it's no longer can do the things that
49:12
you want to do right now. So you buy another one and so
49:15
on, so that is kind of multiplied at million times
49:18
within an organization and I guess our job company.
49:24
Area is obviously to advise people as best we can on what
49:28
they should invest in what they should purchase to get a ratio
49:35
of fit for purpose versus obsolescence as best that we can
49:42
advise. So that's where, if they said,
49:45
we have lots of privileged accounts, we still have stuff on
49:49
premises. We work in a highly regulated.
49:56
Then a zippy but feature, like, Kim solution, probably wouldn't
50:01
be the right one. And we would probably say you
50:04
need a good solid privileged access management platform and
50:10
this is from analyzing your business.
50:12
So we're never going to be able to say that a vendor or a
50:16
solution is going to be good for everyone.
50:21
The only thing I would say is that pace of development Within
50:24
the Kim sector for what I've seen so far is pretty rapid and
50:33
it's probably more rapid than what's happening and privileged
50:36
access management, but to get back to the root.
50:39
I think they are responding like cyber are Beyond trust.
50:45
They are realizing that maybe they had overlooked this Market,
50:49
but they are making their making moves now to to do something
50:52
about it. So, If my the message to a
50:57
customer that's already, perhaps invested in a Pam platform of
51:01
one of those types would be. Don't Panic probably they will
51:08
come up with some part or a new to set of capabilities that
51:13
would deal with your multi hybrid your dream environment.
51:18
So yeah I mean it's it's not an easy thing, you you You'll never
51:24
find anything that will probably suit your be fit for purpose
51:29
forever but you can might find something that will be fit for
51:31
purpose. I don't think things are so
51:34
Dynamic at the moment that everything is out of date by
51:37
next week, that that might happen decades into the future.
51:40
Who knows what he'll we might be trying to advise on in then.
51:47
But for now I think that's the best answer.
51:53
Which is, you know, get What works for your type of
51:56
organization, your kind of people, Etc.
51:59
I can see it in the future, you know, we kind of we started by
52:02
dumping on the Mainframe, you know, like, oh, they're still
52:04
made from is out there at some point.
52:06
Like, I remember we had active directory servers on premise,
52:09
right? It's like it's just, it's just
52:10
the way that things work, all, you've been really great through
52:13
time. I know we've only got a few
52:14
minutes left with you. So I want to start to kind of
52:16
wrap things up and one of the ways we do that is to have a
52:20
little more fun conversation to kind of end this talk.
52:25
So that wasn't fun. So is plenty of fun for
52:29
identical nerds like like you and me and Jim and probably the
52:32
people who are listening to the show for sure why.
52:36
But you know, a little bit of a lighter note and we had a we had
52:40
a pretty good conversation on Monday.
52:41
As you were kind of prepping, you know for this call around
52:45
photography and I forgot other things.
52:47
We actually went down to pretty good rabbit hole of kind of like
52:49
some of some more interest. So want to come up with
52:52
something different for today and that Is here's the question
52:55
for you if you could instantly become an expert in something,
53:01
not identity related. Okay.
53:03
I know that's probably going to be your number one choice.
53:06
What would it be? Yeah.
53:08
Well my first reaction to that would be some kind of diplomacy
53:14
for diplomatic genius. That could solve conflict in the
53:21
world but let's not dwell on that in.
53:24
Instead, I've always been fascinated by economics and I
53:30
find, I would love to be expert in, I'd love to be an economist
53:36
but to the level of, you know, someone well I'm trying to think
53:43
of a famous economist but someone that is, you know,
53:47
internationally-renowned but also I just think the way
53:52
economies work or don't work. The way that everything affects
53:58
everything else, the you know, profit and loss market, supply
54:03
and demand. Why things go up why they'd go
54:06
down? All that stuff is is I mean I've
54:09
tried I've ripped economic textbooks and come out more
54:13
confused and before. So and I once saw a documentary
54:19
on TV about and I think that the message was that he kind of is
54:23
don't really And it either. But they did the best they get.
54:28
Yeah, they do the best they can. But sometimes they think the
54:32
economy is a kind of a self-governing or
54:35
self-perpetuating machine that we actually don't control.
54:42
So you know, how does how does inflation start and how does it
54:45
get out of control? All that stuff is is
54:48
fascinating. So I'd love to be able to, you
54:51
know, give answers on that. But some yeah and also I'd
54:56
probably be a lot richer. I think I like how you put that
55:01
towards the end of the answer because that's immediately.
55:03
I was like it was like okay yeah like if I'm going to be proud of
55:06
me I'm probably you know doing doing pretty well for myself.
55:09
I think it's a fascinating subject for sure because they
55:12
think it's you know there's obviously you know the financial
55:16
aspect of it knowing how Financial Vehicles work right?
55:19
Whatever that looks like. But also psychology of humans
55:22
and you're Trying to predict human behavior, what's going to
55:27
happen if you know? Well if a boat in the Atlantic
55:32
catches fire, where the whole bunch of you know sports cars on
55:35
it, not that that didn't happen recently right in the world.
55:39
Like, what does that mean, right for the economy of those
55:42
companies or wherever they were intended, things like that.
55:45
Yeah, for sure. I'm way.
55:47
Why does war cause stock markets to go down and pandemics while I
55:53
guess the obvious answer is? Because industry won't function
55:57
and cetera. But you know, it's just a whole
56:02
world is governed by economics and you know our system of way,
56:09
our whole way of living and you know most of us don't really
56:13
understand how it work. I don't even get like I remember
56:17
School the teacher was like, couldn't understand how why I
56:22
couldn't understand how money. Could be electronic and if you
56:28
don't have the cash in your hand, I thought what how can all
56:31
these numbers get transferred from one account to another?
56:35
Where's the actual money using this?
56:37
What the old days that you'd show up and like, here's, you
56:41
know, here's a pouch full of coins.
56:43
Yeah. That should do it and it wasn't
56:45
even like you knew what the amount was like, yes, feels
56:47
about right. Let's go and do our things.
56:51
Yeah. But I, you know, even now I
56:52
still think like everyone. Forget it.
56:55
Get a statement was the numbers on and that converts into pounds
57:02
but nothing ever changes hands and you know, it that's that's
57:06
the one thing that really bugs me is that's fundamentally the
57:10
way the whole system works is just stuff being transferred
57:13
from one place to another and it's all numbers.
57:17
Yeah, you know. That's and that's and that's
57:20
that's what wealth is, you know, or lack of it.
57:22
So And now, in Britain, we almost literally, almost have a
57:28
cashless Society. Thanks to the covid thing.
57:32
People didn't want to carry change anymore.
57:35
So now we have the technology to bypass that.
57:39
And so now virtually everything is paid for with card or phone.
57:43
It's quite a. Yeah.
57:47
Last year, was the first time that I can confidently, say, the
57:53
year 2021. I did not use cash or coins for
57:57
anything. Yeah.
57:59
Every purchase that I made last year involved, electronic
58:03
transfer of funds. I didn't know.
58:05
I still have the same currency in my wallet.
58:08
I've never even been to the bank, you know?
58:10
I mean, it's a really interesting time which I love
58:13
because I think you know, I think it's great from an
58:14
efficiency standpoint, but it certainly is an interesting time
58:17
to be alive if, you know. Yeah.
58:20
If that concerns people and isn't it also?
58:24
Like this pandemic has happened at a time when we're Advanced
58:29
enough to carry on pretty well, you know, we had thanks to our
58:36
it, that we could work remotely, we could do stuff like this.
58:41
We have payment systems that don't require physical activity
58:44
and so on. So yeah, I wonder what a
58:48
pandemic would be. Well, we know that we are in, do
58:51
it, you know, the Spanish Flu I guess was A very different
58:55
experience of people. So, yeah, there, I've got a book
58:59
to actually become reward. It's cool.
59:01
But it's it's nice to dip into now and again because it kind of
59:06
provides an antidote to all the Gloom you know, with you know
59:12
global warming war everything else going on crazy politicians,
59:17
that actually a lot. A lot that's happening in the
59:19
world is is far better, you know.
59:22
We're in a better State than we think we are.
59:24
You know, we've we've got rid of a lot of illness, there's more
59:28
democracy there is actually less war and things like that.
59:32
So I keep that by the bed, I like the positive outlook on
59:37
things, they think that's that. We sometimes lose sight of all
59:40
the, the bad news had side. There is plenty of good in the
59:43
world. Jim, if you could become a
59:46
instant expert in something, what would it be?
59:49
I will weigh in on the economics too much because I could turn
59:53
this very gloomy. Very quickly.
59:56
I do use cash. So by the way, and I don't think
1:00:00
that saves me from, you know, any kind of potential economic
1:00:05
collapse that could take place. But as things become more
1:00:08
computerized, it's not just, you know, ransomware that is our
1:00:13
issue. There are state-sponsored
1:00:17
attacks that are possible. I mean, there is zero, day bugs
1:00:21
that are found all the time that all the financial institutions.
1:00:24
Institutions, Global financial institutions count on Commercial
1:00:29
software and it's very vulnerable.
1:00:32
I think of the big picture, if we went to war with Russia or
1:00:37
China. The so that's my concern on that
1:00:41
front so there's your Gloom. I said I wasn't going to do it
1:00:43
but I did it anyway. Thanks for thanks for waiting Us
1:00:45
in the geopolitical power struggles.
1:00:48
How about something else? Okay, so what I Look to this
1:00:52
question from a couple of angles and one of the anger This was
1:00:55
what I do already. What do I find interesting?
1:00:58
I spend my time researching because sure would be great to,
1:01:04
you know, if I think if you're doing it for free you'd love to
1:01:07
do it as a career and so or even as a career, but just to be an
1:01:14
expert on and the topic I came up with what number one was
1:01:18
longevity. And so from a longevity
1:01:20
standpoint is what are the things that you can do too?
1:01:24
Get the most out of this human form that we have to both make
1:01:29
it live longer but also have a higher quality of life, you know
1:01:33
from a physical perspective. Also from, you know, your mind
1:01:37
operating at a peak capacity and gave the most of the time that
1:01:42
you have your on Earth. And so, you know, I think one of
1:01:47
the challenges with longevity though, is, it's just like
1:01:51
sighs. So I think that, you know, that
1:01:53
we've had Mantra in the world of I follow the science, I follow
1:01:58
the science. Well, science only knows what
1:02:01
science knows. And usually what science knows
1:02:05
is the result of studies. So if this studies were never
1:02:08
done and by the way, studies are usually done to generate a
1:02:13
profit, not always right there. Are some studies that are funded
1:02:16
by institutions just to see how things work.
1:02:19
But a lot of the studies that are done are done to test Staff
1:02:24
pharmaceutical, you know, will this pharmaceutical result in,
1:02:29
you know, X Y, & Z and therefore we can sell it and make a ton of
1:02:32
profit. So there's a lot of studies that
1:02:34
are never done. So, so science only knows what
1:02:36
science knows. And that's kind of the
1:02:39
limitations I think of longevity is now we have these, you know,
1:02:44
forty studies that were were done.
1:02:46
And somebody wrote a paper to pull it all together and, you
1:02:52
know, this is what we can infer from all these.
1:02:54
Rat studies of people, taking turmeric or rats, eating
1:02:57
tumeric, they live 20% longer and that's it's just Ali should
1:03:02
be given so we're supposed to do that.
1:03:05
Yeah, well you know, it's not one.
1:03:08
Wait, you studied rats or you've taken turmeric, you know, I've
1:03:10
done the tumeric. Yeah, well yeah, because I
1:03:13
believed the, you know, stuff I read on social media and you
1:03:18
know, like all those things I gave up after a few weeks
1:03:21
because it could be bothered, it's a lot of money.
1:03:24
It's a lot of money to take all these things and plus they all
1:03:26
have side effects, right? So if you take a lot of
1:03:29
turmeric, then I mean for me at least it's like kind of gives me
1:03:34
a sour stomach if I take too much of it.
1:03:36
So you know, and I do take a ton of pills and spend a bunch of
1:03:40
money on it and I get excited about these things.
1:03:43
They also rely put a disclaimer here, right?
1:03:44
You should not be coming to the identity of the sender.
1:03:46
Podcast for medical advice. Please carry on please carry on.
1:03:51
So the long and short of it though is exactly.
1:03:54
To that point. I'm not a doctor.
1:03:56
So then you start reading these these articles about how these
1:03:59
things work on. Just like, I'm too confused.
1:04:02
So I need somebody to explain to me.
1:04:05
So if I could become an instant expert on something, I think it
1:04:08
would be longevity. Now, at the same time, we're not
1:04:12
looking at the instant expert of like because I can say, oh, I
1:04:14
would like to be an instant expert in Bitcoin that's still
1:04:17
not going to tell me where Bitcoins going to be two years
1:04:20
from now. So if I was to you know, and I'm
1:04:23
trying to advise Sighs. My son, who is a junior in high
1:04:26
school, getting ready to go into college and I'm saying, what
1:04:30
should he major in? What should he and?
1:04:33
And I that's the type to tell them what to do, but I'm going
1:04:36
to give him my my life experience and then let him take
1:04:39
that as one of the inputs, I think computer coding computer
1:04:44
science which is a focus on development, right?
1:04:46
They have now information technology and computer science
1:04:49
are different tracks and information security.
1:04:52
That's an information technology.
1:04:54
Lot of information, technology courses are like networking and
1:04:58
these things that I'm thinking about.
1:05:00
Maybe it's because I specialize in those days and like that
1:05:03
stuff's easy. You don't need to go to college
1:05:05
to learn that stuff. The computer science, if you can
1:05:07
take four years and really focus on how to code and how to
1:05:12
architect applications, you won't go hungry in this world,
1:05:16
right? That is a great basis to build
1:05:20
whatever career you build. So to me, that's Right?
1:05:24
If I was 18, again, that's what I would get into is a computer
1:05:28
science program. Yeah.
1:05:30
What about you? Jeff?
1:05:32
I just want to point out, you absolutely crush the longevity
1:05:35
Thing by with that answer. So I can see where that would
1:05:37
have been your been, your first choice.
1:05:40
I'm going to keep it simple because I wish I could play a
1:05:44
musical, instrument guitar, piano, something like that.
1:05:47
Be an expert musician at something.
1:05:50
It's something that I've toyed around with, in the past and
1:05:52
obviously, we're not obviously, But you know, when I was younger
1:05:55
try to get into it but I've just never been musically inclined,
1:05:58
can't get my fingers to do the, you know, the Frets and the and
1:06:02
the chord shapes and things like that in the guitars.
1:06:04
Haven't really sat down at the piano and like that.
1:06:06
So I'm going to keep mine positive and simple and say hey
1:06:10
I wish I could you know be an expert on an instrument let's
1:06:13
just say guitar because I think I've always been Keen to try to
1:06:16
learn that so so yeah. We've gone very long much longer
1:06:22
than we normally do but it was a great Station longevity as part
1:06:27
of it as well. Before we wrap up, I want to
1:06:31
give Paul a 30-second window here to any final thoughts as
1:06:37
far as the conversation and then in addition to that, if there's
1:06:40
anything else that's coming up, I know that the European
1:06:43
identity conference is coming up, I think it may or may be
1:06:47
some other blogs or webinars that might be coming through.
1:06:50
The floor is yours Paul. Yo.
1:06:52
Thanks Jeff. Well, it's been a pleasure, I
1:06:55
should say and I hope I haven't confused people even more than
1:07:00
they were before they list started to listen, there is you
1:07:05
say cic, European identity conference, which is now coming
1:07:10
up for its 20th year. I think it's happening, May from
1:07:14
made a ninth to the 13th in Berlin.
1:07:18
So if it's the registration is open now, It's also if you go to
1:07:27
our website could bring a cold opcom, go to a I see there is
1:07:31
some blogs there, there's one that's been just been published
1:07:35
by Martin Martin cooking, her all about the identity fabric
1:07:40
which goes into a lot more detail than than I did, which is
1:07:46
well worth a read. There's modesty doesn't prevent
1:07:51
me from saying that there's a Blog by me as well.
1:07:54
On there. Should you want to read that?
1:07:55
But there are several interesting bits there.
1:08:03
That's that's the main thing and as I said it's the European
1:08:06
identity conference has become probably the biggest conference
1:08:09
devoted just to Identity certainly in Europe.
1:08:14
So yeah I hope anyone that's in Europe at that time would we'd
1:08:18
like to see you thankfully now looks like it's going to be you
1:08:23
know, fully As in real, people are going to be there.
1:08:27
So but we will there is still the virtual option for anyone
1:08:31
that wants that as well. So that's the main thing I think
1:08:35
I've done my my job there and promoting that so, and as I
1:08:40
said, look out for the leadership, compass on dream
1:08:43
around about the same time, very cool.
1:08:45
And I have a link to Career call as well as a link to that
1:08:50
identity Fabrics, article or blog that that Martin wrote In
1:08:54
The show notes so people in check it out but yeah check out
1:08:56
at Commander col.com also have a link to Paul's LinkedIn.
1:09:01
Hopefully Paul you're open to you know, getting connections
1:09:04
are folks out there and and interacting job.
1:09:07
Well absolutely, yeah LinkedIn is is is a challenge these days.
1:09:12
I'm sure, you know but if you can avoid some of that it still
1:09:17
I still love to talk to people on LinkedIn from this community.
1:09:20
So yeah, yeah, Jim and I to Jim and he I thought so before we
1:09:25
wrap up this week just pooping or cold just a fantastic job.
1:09:29
So I S getting out there signing up getting on their you know
1:09:33
their newsletters you get links to a lot of free webinars and
1:09:39
the ability to get great information.
1:09:42
They also have a fantastic podcast so don't mind pumping
1:09:46
that a little bit. Matthias does a really good job
1:09:49
but that podcast and yeah I guess I just wish you guys had
1:09:52
an American Identity conference and in the meantime, Jeff, I
1:09:57
think we should put it into go to the European one.
1:10:00
That would I'd be willing to put a mask on and get on an airplane
1:10:04
for eight hours for that. What do you say, I'm totally
1:10:07
down. I've never my only journey into
1:10:10
Germany was Frankfurt, airport, and that's it.
1:10:13
So I've never actually had, you know, on the ground experience.
1:10:16
I would totally be up for that, but we'll have to see how things
1:10:20
go I think as the world continues to open up here, so
1:10:23
I'm all-in. For it though.
1:10:24
I'm glad to see more things becoming live.
1:10:27
You know, as long as people are safe and healthy, you know, I'm
1:10:30
all favor for it. Alright, let's go ahead and wrap
1:10:33
it up there. I know this is a kind of a one
1:10:35
of our longer ones, but I really enjoyed the conversation.
1:10:38
You know, Paul. Thank you so much for being a
1:10:41
part of a part of that conversation with us from from
1:10:44
our perspective. Right?
1:10:45
You know, feel free to check us out on the web where idac
1:10:47
podcast.com, we're on Twitter at, idac podcast and Jim and I
1:10:52
recently started doing a live stream.
1:10:54
Mmmmm every week roughly on YouTube which you can find us at
1:10:58
idac dot live. They'll take your right to our
1:11:00
YouTube channel and, you know, it's I won't say it's less
1:11:05
prepared. It's, you know, more
1:11:06
freewheeling opinion, kind of whatever is for the moment for
1:11:10
whatever we decide to figure out where we're going to talk about
1:11:12
at that time. So, you know, that's the kind of
1:11:15
conversation we try to get into. So hopefully people will kind of
1:11:18
check that out and And subscribe to the podcast to the YouTube
1:11:22
channel, those sorts of things. So with that, We'll go ahead and
1:11:25
leave it for this week. Thanks Paul.
1:11:27
Thanks Jim and thank you for listening and we'll talk with
1:11:30
everyone in the next one. Thanks for listening to the
1:11:37
identity at the center podcast. If you like what you heard,
1:11:40
don't forget to subscribe and visit us on the web and identity
1:11:43
at the center.com.