Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Major break in case of double life soccer mom murder

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Major break in case of double life soccer mom murder · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
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Speaker 1: one two. A gorgeous young so called soccer mom who
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Speaker 1: adores her little girl is found dead in the road,
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Speaker 1: halfway in the street, halfway up on a lawn, with
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Speaker 1: a scene that looks staged, a bottle of absinthe delicately
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Speaker 1: placed on her cell phone nearby. She is naked from
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Speaker 1: the waist down. What happened? A neighbor's daughter and not
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Speaker 1: to work finds her. There no clues until now. I
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories, Thank you for being
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Speaker 1: with us. I'm talking about a beautiful young mom lying
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Speaker 1: face down next to her a cell phone with an
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Speaker 1: absent the bottle placed on top. The mother of one
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Speaker 1: absolutely stunning. She's a Marilyn Monroe look alike who is
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Speaker 1: known by her wholesome photos she places online and posts
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Speaker 1: of her twelve year old little girl and her husband
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Speaker 1: enjoying really the ideal American lifestyle, the one everybody season
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Speaker 1: magazines and thinks it's actually attainable, a suburban life where
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Speaker 1: the family is happy, the home is beautiful, and everything
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Speaker 1: is in place. There in Alabama, according to all her
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Speaker 1: social media accounts, well not all of them. To Alexis
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Speaker 1: Terres Chuck joining me investigative reporter Radar online dot com
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Speaker 1: as we fare it out, a big break in the case,
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Speaker 1: what have you learned about this young mom and Marilyn
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Speaker 1: Monroe look alike double life Online. You're right, she's a
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Speaker 1: soccer mom, she's beautiful, blonde, and online she was on
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Speaker 1: a website you could you had to pay money to
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Speaker 1: access her pictures, and they are naked pictures of her
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Speaker 1: in super sexy poses. There's her from behind, there's her
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Speaker 1: in skinpy bikini, skimpy bras, and also there are photos
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Speaker 1: of her completely naked, which is fine, absolutely fine, but
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Speaker 1: a shock for a woman who is a soccer mom
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Speaker 1: and this beautiful, beautiful moment Alexis, Alexis, I'm just trying
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Speaker 1: to observe her. Alexis, Okay, you had a long pause
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Speaker 1: before you say it, and that's that's fine. Clearly what
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Speaker 1: you mean is it's not fine at all. You know,
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Speaker 1: I know what I know what I mean when I
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Speaker 1: when I say to my husband, fine fine, uh huh.
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Speaker 1: That means h e double l is just about to
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Speaker 1: break loose and everybody better duck. That's what fine means
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Speaker 1: it wasn't fine because she's ended up dead. Police have
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Speaker 1: looked high and low. They have sourced, through, vetted through
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Speaker 1: every clue they could imagine, including surveillance video of her
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Speaker 1: at a local store just before she's found murdered. What
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Speaker 1: did it reveal, Alexis torres Chuck. Many people say, well,
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Speaker 1: how did her husband stand for this? Her husband knew
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Speaker 1: all about it, and he did and he had said
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Speaker 1: that he was fine with it. Absolutely, not to use
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Speaker 1: my word fine, but he said that he was not
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Speaker 1: at all upset that she was doing this, that she
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Speaker 1: did these pictures at all. But it's such a dangerous
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Speaker 1: thing to put out there, something that's so intimate about you.
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Speaker 1: When you have a child and it's out on the
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Speaker 1: internet and people can find you, so many bad things
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Speaker 1: can happen. There's so many predators out there and people
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Speaker 1: that are going to take things the wrong way. Well,
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Speaker 1: this is what we know about what he said to
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Speaker 1: neighbors and friends and conversations with friends. He's kind of
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Speaker 1: a heavy set, balding father. Uh insisted the death his
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Speaker 1: wife's death was purely an accident and that he never
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Speaker 1: had a problem with his wife's online activities. She's bringing
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Speaker 1: in money by posting nude photos. Okay. In the last
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Speaker 1: hours we learned and arrest has been made. What went down,
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Speaker 1: alexis So police showed up five weeks ago. She was
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Speaker 1: found dead on the side of the road and as
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Speaker 1: you said, you look stage, somebody had to have done that.
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Speaker 1: Her cell phone. Next were no clothes on from the
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Speaker 1: bottom down. Police had said nothing in those five weeks.
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Speaker 1: They haven't put out anything which was a we're looking
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Speaker 1: for a suspect or anything like that. They went and
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Speaker 1: they arrested the husband, Jeff West. They hauled him off
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Speaker 1: to jail for herr Jeff West now in custody. In
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Speaker 1: the last hours, just before he was arrested, he spoke
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Speaker 1: apparently to a friend who's dates that waters in great length,
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Speaker 1: said that his wife's death was a quote terrible accident
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Speaker 1: because of quote excessive alcohol consumption. In other words, she
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Speaker 1: died from excessive alcohol consumption. That's what he's saying. Well,
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Speaker 1: that's not what police are saying today. With me, forensics
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Speaker 1: expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, Alexis
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Speaker 1: terres Chuck investigative reporter with radar online dot Com forensic
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Speaker 1: psychiatrist Dr Daniel bober Troyce Layton, renowned defense attorney out
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Speaker 1: of the California jurisdiction to Joe Scott Morrigan, you're the
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Speaker 1: forensics expert. What do we know was the cause of death?
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Speaker 1: They're calling this Nancy cause of death as blunt force
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Speaker 1: trauma to the head and the classified us in fact
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Speaker 1: the manner as a homicide. You know, I'm looking right
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Speaker 1: at the crime scene right now, the forensics scene out
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Speaker 1: there working and it's really interesting. I'm looking at it,
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, and I'm trying to determine what clues we
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Speaker 1: can garner from this. She is very near her own
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Speaker 1: front yard, and she's half clothed, half naked. She I
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Speaker 1: think did have some alcohol in her system, but she
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Speaker 1: had blunt force trauma to the head. Now, I wonder
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Speaker 1: if the police are alleging he the husband set this
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Speaker 1: up to look as if she had been hit by
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Speaker 1: a car, or if she stumbled and fell on the curb.
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Speaker 1: This is one of those streets in a suburban neighborhood
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Speaker 1: that actually has a little there's no sidewalk, but there
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Speaker 1: is a cement curb along the sides. Of the street
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Speaker 1: on the other side is the grass? Is he trying
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Speaker 1: to set it up to look like she hit her
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Speaker 1: head on that and blaming the booze? Is that what
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Speaker 1: police are alleging? Joe Scott Morgan, you know, I don't.
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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that that that's the road they're trying to
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Speaker 1: go down. Uh. You know, looking at this thing, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: I was thinking, you know what, what in proximity to
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Speaker 1: her body could have generated this kind of event. And
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Speaker 1: I'm thinking the curb to a certain degree. Uh, if
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Speaker 1: it was, you know, a motor vehicle strike. Uh, she
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Speaker 1: would have multiple, multiple injuries to her body. Of course
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Speaker 1: we don't. They haven't released Sif we don't, I don't know, Hall.
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Speaker 1: Hold on, I'm I'm just a j D. You know,
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Speaker 1: you're the expert in crime scenes. But if you are
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Speaker 1: hit by a car, say in the shins, and you
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Speaker 1: fall over and hit your head on a curve like that,
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Speaker 1: hold on, Joe Scott, I'm pulling a rank on you
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Speaker 1: with me. Forensics psychiatrist Dr Daniel Bober, who is of
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Speaker 1: course not just a psychiatrist but also an m D.
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Speaker 1: You have to be an MPDE and medical doctor and
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Speaker 1: then specialized in psychiatry, or at least that's what all
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Speaker 1: the psychiatrists tell me. Um Dr Bober, listen to this.
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Speaker 1: I want if you can't answer the hypothetical I posted
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, could she have been hit by a car
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Speaker 1: and hit her head on that cement curve? And also,
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Speaker 1: this is freaky, very freaky. Friends have come forward and
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Speaker 1: anonymously stated that the husband knew his wife was let
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Speaker 1: me just say, an online seductress and he quote got
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Speaker 1: off on the idea that she was desired by hundreds,
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Speaker 1: if not thousands of men, but that he was her husband.
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Speaker 1: That's an odd theory to me, Dr Bober. I think
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Speaker 1: it's certainly possible. But I think someone being struck by
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Speaker 1: a car, you would look for a certain pattern of
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Speaker 1: injuries h that you wouldn't see if someone just fell
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Speaker 1: out and hit their head on a curb. So I
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Speaker 1: think you would probably be easy to distinguish those two
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Speaker 1: depending on the speed of the vehicle when the vehicle
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Speaker 1: hits the individual. So what about this theory that the
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Speaker 1: husband secretly loved the fact that she of her antics online, Well,
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Speaker 1: maybe he you know, resented her after a while, or
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Speaker 1: maybe he became jealous it's very hard to know. Take
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Speaker 1: a listen to what police are saying at this hour
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Speaker 1: about the arrest of the so called Kitticat Club founders arrest.
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Speaker 1: The Clear Police Department has made an arrest in the
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Speaker 1: Kathleen West murder investigation. Jeffrey William Jeffrey West, the victim's husband,
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Speaker 1: has been arrested and charged with the murder. On January
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Speaker 1: and around zero five ten am, the Clear Police Department
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Speaker 1: was dispatched to one block of Greenwood Circle on a
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Speaker 1: part the new female lying in the road. The victim,
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Speaker 1: Kathleen West, suffered from blunt force trauma to the head
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Speaker 1: and was pronounced deceased at the scene. The Clearer Police
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Speaker 1: Department conducted a thorough investigation. We had the assistance of
10:19
Speaker 1: various local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies. Evidence was
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Speaker 1: collected and processed from various different sources. We received our
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Speaker 1: last and final piece of evidence report from the Department
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Speaker 1: of Forensics Science the day before yesterday. The case and
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Speaker 1: all evidence was reviewed by the Shelby County District Attorney's
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Speaker 1: Office and was screened at the Shelby County Magistrate's Office
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Speaker 1: to obtain the warrant for Mr. West arrest straight back
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Speaker 1: out to investigative reporter Alexis Terrez Chuck. Alexis, I'm looking
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Speaker 1: at wedding photos. He is in his full dress uniform
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Speaker 1: from the military. He's got a lot of stripes on
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Speaker 1: his arm. I don't know what it all means. She's gorgeous,
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Speaker 1: you know. She from the side. She looks like Pam
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Speaker 1: Anderson with her hair up. Jack. You look at this
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Speaker 1: photo of them, how happy they look. And I'm just
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Speaker 1: I don't understand how everything went so sidewise. Here she
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Speaker 1: is with her little girl looking absolutely she doesn't like
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Speaker 1: a Marilyn Monroe look alike. You can see she's got
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Speaker 1: on a sports brawn or a workout. She was found
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Speaker 1: wearing nothing but a sports bra. So, if this is
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Speaker 1: a murder, not only did he murder her, but then
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Speaker 1: left her to be found in that condition, naked except
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Speaker 1: for a sports bra. Alexas, what more do we know
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Speaker 1: about their marriage and their life and about the husband?
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Speaker 1: Well he was, he said in his uniform. He was
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Speaker 1: a U S Military police officer. He was also a guard,
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Speaker 1: a security guard at the local university, Birmingham Southern University
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Speaker 1: of Great School, and he though was so suspicious after
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Speaker 1: she was murdered. Well, I say murdered, but that's what
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Speaker 1: the police were saying, because he did not invite anyone.
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Speaker 1: He only invited very very very few close friends and
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Speaker 1: family to her funeral. He would think, this beautiful woman
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Speaker 1: probably has a million friends and all the children that
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Speaker 1: her daughter's friends with their parents that want to come,
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Speaker 1: and all of her family members. He wouldn't invite anybody.
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Speaker 1: He was completely silent about this. And you know, there
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Speaker 1: was a video that was found of the two of
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Speaker 1: them the night before she was found, and they were
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Speaker 1: in a convenience store buying booze, and she looked so
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Speaker 1: happy that she was She picked up that absence, but
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Speaker 1: she looked they were together. People see them that they're
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Speaker 1: laughing and they're flirting. Paths are on the bottom. It
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Speaker 1: looked like this very flirty relationship and it looked really
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Speaker 1: very happy until she died, and then people said he
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Speaker 1: became very suspicious the way he wouldn't even talk about it.
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Speaker 1: He wouldn't say anything it was friends about her, and
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Speaker 1: just kept everything very quiet. No, I want to go
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Speaker 1: back to Dr Daniel Bober about this analysis, but first
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Speaker 1: to Troy Slayton renown defense attorney out of the California jurisdiction, Troy,
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Speaker 1: the reason I was asking earlier about could she have
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Speaker 1: been hit by a car which made her stumble over
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Speaker 1: and hit her head? Could she have been inebriated and
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Speaker 1: fall over and hit her head on that curb, that
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Speaker 1: cement curb that I'm seeing, and you know what I'm
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Speaker 1: talking about. I would say it's about a four to
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Speaker 1: six inch cement um barrier between the street and the
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Speaker 1: grass and everybody's lawn. It's a beautiful neighborhood, big humes,
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Speaker 1: perfect yards, shrubs, the work works. And I'm asking because,
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Speaker 1: as you know, Troy, whenever I would try a case,
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Speaker 1: I would not only prepare my case, but I would
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Speaker 1: prepare to attack the defense theory. And very often I
14:00
Speaker 1: didn't even know what the defense three was really going
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Speaker 1: to be until opening statements, and they could even change
14:05
Speaker 1: after opening statements, like ken top Mom, the theory was, um, oh,
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Speaker 1: you know the grandfather, George Anthony really is the one
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Speaker 1: who got the baby out of the pool and hit
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Speaker 1: her body. Okay, well you never heard another word about
14:18
Speaker 1: that during the trial, So things change. What you have
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Speaker 1: to do is anticipate what you think the defense may do,
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Speaker 1: and prepared to shoot it down the minute it happens.
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Speaker 1: That's why I was asking. Plus I actually legitimately want
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Speaker 1: to know, Troy, could she have hit her head on
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Speaker 1: this cement barrier, That's what I mean, suddenly like four
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Speaker 1: or five inches tall? But could it be? So where
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Speaker 1: do you go from here? Troy? And analyzing it as
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Speaker 1: a trial lawyer really only can do what do you
14:52
Speaker 1: think they must have against him in order to bring charges? Well,
14:56
Speaker 1: one thing I know is that in a case like this,
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Speaker 1: normally the parents of the deceased want the right person
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Speaker 1: caught and convicted. And hear both the suspect, her husband's
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Speaker 1: parents and her very own parents don't think that he
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Speaker 1: was the one that did it. And what's really interesting
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Speaker 1: is that this woman who was leading a double life
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Speaker 1: on the one hand a beautiful suburban soccer mom and
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Speaker 1: had an entire online presence where people paid to see
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Speaker 1: her naked in her other life known as Kitty Kat West.
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Speaker 1: There are thousands of potential suspects all over the world
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Speaker 1: who could have had an unhealthy obsession with her, who
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Speaker 1: wanted to do things to her, or could have possibly
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Speaker 1: been involved in her death. Well, as a matter of fact,
15:54
Speaker 1: take a listen to what Jeff West, the husband of
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Speaker 1: this Marilyn Monrose Locker mom look alike, what his father,
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Speaker 1: William West, has to say. Listen, because I know they
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Speaker 1: screwed it up and they're trying to blame somebody, and
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Speaker 1: they told him it was circumstantial evidence. Thet they say
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Speaker 1: they got proof, they don't know what they got. Straight
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Speaker 1: back to Joseph Scott, Morgan forensics expert Joe Scott, that's
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Speaker 1: what I would expect his mom or dad to say,
16:28
Speaker 1: that they don't have any proof, but they've got to
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Speaker 1: arrest somebody. So they arrested my son. Oh yeah, you know,
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Speaker 1: obviously they're gonna say that they're going to deflect to
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Speaker 1: that position. But let's let's keep in mind. Uh we
16:41
Speaker 1: as Alexis stated earlier, we've got videotape of them being
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Speaker 1: together that night in a liquor store, purchasing not just
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Speaker 1: absence but also James and Irish Irish whiskey. Uh, we've
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Speaker 1: got them, uh, you know, yucking it up. It's a
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Speaker 1: date night. So you're thinking, okay, well it's a day night.
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Speaker 1: Somebody's got to be watching their child. Uh, they're together alone.
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Speaker 1: So unless something just absolutely mysterious little green men descended
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Speaker 1: out of the heavens, um these two people will have
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Speaker 1: been together and he potentially is going to be the
17:18
Speaker 1: last person that ever saw her alive. And that's what
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Speaker 1: investigators are gonna be looking at and pressing him really hard.
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Speaker 1: Over to Alexis Torres Chuck, investigative reporter, writer online, what
17:29
Speaker 1: more do we know? Well, we know that he, as
17:33
Speaker 1: Troyce Layton was saying, his parents were defending him. I
17:35
Speaker 1: don't know how they can defend him when he wasn't
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Speaker 1: allowing anybody to do anything about this beautiful wife that
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Speaker 1: he was so called warning. But he he was hiding
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Speaker 1: after she was found dead. He wouldn't let anybody, sort
17:47
Speaker 1: a very small group of people come to this funeral.
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Speaker 1: And he was telling his friends that it was a
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Speaker 1: Boozy accident. So that's a confession to me. And whether
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Speaker 1: Boozy accident falls under the terms of murder, obviously the
17:59
Speaker 1: police think it it because they arrested him. What do
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Speaker 1: you believe at this point to Dr Daniel Bober is
18:05
Speaker 1: the evidence they have against him? Of course, I'm sure
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Speaker 1: they've searched his cell phone, his laptop, his iPad, all
18:13
Speaker 1: of his devices, his social media. But what could it
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Speaker 1: be that now leads to an arrest of the husband. Well,
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Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting, Nancy. It seems purely circumstantial at
18:24
Speaker 1: this point. But you know, you mentioned something about absent
18:27
Speaker 1: in the beginning of the conversation, which is a potentially
18:30
Speaker 1: toxic compound when mixed with alcohol. But I guess they
18:34
Speaker 1: don't think that that's the cause of death. But anyway,
18:36
Speaker 1: there must be other communications between the husband and the
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Speaker 1: wife that maybe we don't know about, whether it's texting
18:41
Speaker 1: or social media, because it just seems that at this point,
18:45
Speaker 1: with all they have, it just doesn't seem to be
18:47
Speaker 1: anything more than circumstantial at this point. Why do you
18:50
Speaker 1: say that, I mean, Troice Lton, people say it's only circumstantial, Eviden.
18:55
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, they're having a dirt sandwich. Circumstantial
18:59
Speaker 1: evidence under the law, in fact, juries are instructed. Circumstantial
19:05
Speaker 1: evidence is just as powerful as direct evidence. There can't
19:10
Speaker 1: be direct evidence in every single case. There's not always
19:13
Speaker 1: an eyewitness or a video or d n A. Sometimes
19:16
Speaker 1: you just have to figure it out, Troy. This isn't
19:18
Speaker 1: a run of the mill case, Nancy, if this was
19:21
Speaker 1: just a regular murder investigation, then why are the FBI,
19:25
Speaker 1: Why is the d e A also involved in the investigation.
19:30
Speaker 1: Obviously there are other factors, and yeah, a circumstantial evidence
19:34
Speaker 1: case can be okay, but jurors are also instructed that
19:38
Speaker 1: in a circumstantial evidence case, if there are two reasonable
19:42
Speaker 1: interpretations to the evidence, one pointing to innocence and one
19:46
Speaker 1: point to guilt, they must adopt that theory which points
19:51
Speaker 1: to innocence. Joseph's got more con forensics expert wants in,
19:55
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, what do you think regarding the blood evidence.
19:58
Speaker 1: I think that this is gonna be key, Nancy. We're
20:00
Speaker 1: talking about a head injury here. We remit if you
20:03
Speaker 1: remember back they were they were referring to a head
20:05
Speaker 1: injury when we first initially reported on this case that
20:09
Speaker 1: there was blood trickling from her head. Well, it turns
20:11
Speaker 1: out that this isn't just a little blood. There was
20:13
Speaker 1: a huge puddle of blood at the scene. This is
20:16
Speaker 1: what I think when the police are going over there,
20:18
Speaker 1: and keep in mind they've played this very close to
20:20
Speaker 1: the vest, Nancy, we have to determine, or they have
20:24
Speaker 1: to determine where this initial event took place. They're gonna
20:28
Speaker 1: be looking for blood trails outside of the house, through
20:30
Speaker 1: the grass on the on the pavement. And if in
20:34
Speaker 1: fact he attacked her within that house, there will be
20:38
Speaker 1: a bevy of blood evidence inside of that house. Head injuries,
20:43
Speaker 1: bleed profusely, So this is one of the things. You
20:46
Speaker 1: have a pool of blood. This is gonna come from
20:48
Speaker 1: the settling and her in kind of the final throes
20:51
Speaker 1: of life, maybe if she was dumped there, but somewhere
20:54
Speaker 1: out there, there is a copious amount of blood that
20:56
Speaker 1: has been generated, uh from this attack. Uh if And
21:01
Speaker 1: remember the police are calling this a homicide. They're not
21:04
Speaker 1: saying that this is an accident Nancy. They're saying that
21:07
Speaker 1: she was homicideally attacked. So that gives me an indication
21:11
Speaker 1: that potentially there is some kind of instrumentality that is
21:15
Speaker 1: involved in this event. I'm wondering what they're finding inside
21:18
Speaker 1: of that house at this point in time. Take a
21:21
Speaker 1: listen to this. At what point did Jet West became
21:24
Speaker 1: the suspect of this he was he was a suspect
21:27
Speaker 1: in the very beginning. Do you believe that um I
21:37
Speaker 1: think her online professional activities, um it certainly warranted a
21:43
Speaker 1: lot of attention that it gave gave the attention to
21:46
Speaker 1: this case. Uh huh, I can't let me let me
21:53
Speaker 1: say this. Um, we're still restricted, very restricted on what
21:57
Speaker 1: information that can be given out. The case is still
22:00
Speaker 1: under investigation, even though we have made an arrest, but
22:05
Speaker 1: the case has to go to trial as well. So, UM,
22:09
Speaker 1: you know, information that that is given out can still
22:13
Speaker 1: hinder the investigation as well as the prosecution. How he
22:21
Speaker 1: was to decided that we did collect a lot of evidence. Again,
22:28
Speaker 1: a lot of evidence was was processed, and evidence takes
22:32
Speaker 1: time to process and um, you know we have to
22:37
Speaker 1: wait on that evidence to come in so we can
22:39
Speaker 1: you know, connect all the dots. But again giving out
22:43
Speaker 1: any specific evidence would be uh, could potentially hinder the
22:48
Speaker 1: prosecution on that. You know, how exactly guess maybe what
22:56
Speaker 1: len to that was trauma? We do, um, we do
23:00
Speaker 1: have we know exactly what happened for the most part
23:03
Speaker 1: on this this case. I mean, we can't tell you
23:05
Speaker 1: what pervading, what what was being said one way or
23:07
Speaker 1: the other, but we know what happened that night. Um,
23:10
Speaker 1: we do have evidences to support that. But again providing
23:15
Speaker 1: that evidence may hinder that prosecution. Let me thank our
23:19
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Speaker 1: every day and for being our aren't her here on
25:01
Speaker 1: sirius sex Sam one two Back to Alexis Torres chat
25:06
Speaker 1: writer online dot com investigative report. Where is the husband now?
25:11
Speaker 1: He is in jail. Police arrested him and he is
25:14
Speaker 1: being held in jail. And one thing about this case is,
25:16
Speaker 1: you know they went out, they were seeing that night
25:19
Speaker 1: at the liquor store behind the booth. She wasn't found
25:22
Speaker 1: until the next morning about seven am. It's not like
25:25
Speaker 1: something happened. She disappeared and he called to report her missing,
25:30
Speaker 1: even though she was just outside. He was just inside
25:33
Speaker 1: the house and didn't say anything about her being dead
25:36
Speaker 1: and naked on the lawn across the street. So he
25:39
Speaker 1: was suspicious from day one. And the police, they took
25:41
Speaker 1: their time. Five weeks they spent, He had a funeral
25:45
Speaker 1: for her, He still lived at home, took care of
25:47
Speaker 1: their daughter, and then they arrested him, took him to
25:50
Speaker 1: jail and he there's no bail for him. Now here's
25:52
Speaker 1: the thing by this act, if he did it, not
25:55
Speaker 1: only is his wife gone, but their daughter is left
25:58
Speaker 1: without a mother and the father has been arrested. For
26:01
Speaker 1: those of you just joining us, uh, gorgeous Marylyn Monroe
26:06
Speaker 1: look alike for real sucker Mom also an online let
26:11
Speaker 1: me just say model Kathleen West has been found dead
26:15
Speaker 1: in the early morning hours, half naked. All she had
26:18
Speaker 1: on was a sports bra in the street by her
26:23
Speaker 1: home and a very ritzy suburb in Alabama. Online, she
26:28
Speaker 1: was known as Kitty Cat and head of the so
26:30
Speaker 1: called Cougar Club. She was what they call an exhibitionist
26:35
Speaker 1: because of her Marilyn Monroe resemblance. She made a lot
26:38
Speaker 1: of money on a private site where she had sexy photos,
26:44
Speaker 1: some of them she might have on a course at,
26:45
Speaker 1: some underwear, some with sports bras, some she was naked,
26:49
Speaker 1: and a lot of people would pay a lot of
26:52
Speaker 1: money to go on the website. Well, in the last hours,
26:56
Speaker 1: an arrest has gone down after a lot of specule
27:00
Speaker 1: lation that one of her so called customers sought her
27:03
Speaker 1: out and found her and murdered her. Her completely unassuming
27:08
Speaker 1: looking husband has been arrested. Jeff West, a former military
27:14
Speaker 1: member of the Military, decorated Military member and now a
27:19
Speaker 1: campus security guard at Birmingham Southern College, is behind bars.
27:24
Speaker 1: He's behind bars without bond. Now that's the very latest.
27:29
Speaker 1: I don't know where the little girl is. I don't
27:33
Speaker 1: know who has her. I don't know how she's being raised.
27:36
Speaker 1: Is she in foster care? I know this, The rest
27:39
Speaker 1: of her life is going to be different now her
27:42
Speaker 1: mom is gone, which is hard enough. By now her
27:45
Speaker 1: dad has been arrested for murder. Why why would he
27:49
Speaker 1: take her life? All we can do is speculate. You
27:53
Speaker 1: may jump to the conclusion, Wow, he found out about
27:55
Speaker 1: her online persona well, he knew about it and told
27:59
Speaker 1: a lot of people. He actually enjoyed it. But was
28:04
Speaker 1: there more to it? Was there a divorce brewing? Had
28:08
Speaker 1: she met somebody else online? In the end, nothing changes,
28:13
Speaker 1: doesn't matter why she was murdered. What matters is she
28:19
Speaker 1: was found not only dead, but virtually naked out on
28:23
Speaker 1: the street in front of their home. Troyce Layton, This
28:28
Speaker 1: could very well be a death penalty case. It could
28:31
Speaker 1: be if he was lying in wait, or if there
28:34
Speaker 1: was some sort of special circumstance involved in the case.
28:38
Speaker 1: But I think Alexis duress Check really made the case
28:43
Speaker 1: for the defense. It is so dangerous for somebody to
28:47
Speaker 1: put themselves out online where they are showing themselves naked,
28:54
Speaker 1: taking subscriptions from men and possibly women from all over
29:00
Speaker 1: the world. It puts her and her family in a
29:04
Speaker 1: very dangerous situation. And here it took the FBI and
29:09
Speaker 1: the d E A over five weeks to make an
29:13
Speaker 1: arrest in this case, So that means this isn't cutting dry.
29:18
Speaker 1: They had to cobble together. Know what cut and dry means,
29:23
Speaker 1: Royce laden, if it was from arrest of media, No,
29:27
Speaker 1: do you know what cut and dry even means? No,
29:31
Speaker 1: you don't, city boy, those of us who enjoyed picking
29:37
Speaker 1: vegetables from the fields, coming home and cleaning it and
29:41
Speaker 1: then eating it. Cut and dried means it's all done,
29:46
Speaker 1: cut and dried. You've picked it, you've cut it, you've
29:50
Speaker 1: washed it, you dried it. Now it's time to cooking.
29:52
Speaker 1: Need it is my understanding, Okay, city boys, Roye like,
29:56
Speaker 1: go ahead with your story. If it was cut and
29:59
Speaker 1: dry as you explained, I see you chose to ignore
30:03
Speaker 1: my as. If it was as you described that easy,
30:08
Speaker 1: that's simple, that methodical, then it wouldn't have taken five weeks.
30:14
Speaker 1: This is a woman, Kitty Kat West as she was
30:17
Speaker 1: known online in her Seductress pseudon them, put herself out
30:25
Speaker 1: for the entire world to see, attracting men, trying to
30:29
Speaker 1: get men to be involved with her online in all
30:33
Speaker 1: types of social media, putting her entire family at risk,
30:38
Speaker 1: and then got boozed up and something terrible happened. Well, well,
30:43
Speaker 1: that that's where you lose me. You know, defens attorneys
30:46
Speaker 1: always do this. They took you. I've had so many witnesses.
30:51
Speaker 1: Dr Daniel Bober Forensics, like, I just meant those to you.
30:54
Speaker 1: I'd have a witness in the car at the state
30:58
Speaker 1: of the murder, and they lead me all all the
31:00
Speaker 1: way to the garden gate and then there comes the
31:04
Speaker 1: moment of the gunfire, and I went, well, who did
31:09
Speaker 1: the shooting? And they go, oh, I don't know. You know,
31:13
Speaker 1: I turned and looked out the window at that moment.
31:17
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're in the car, you hear gunfire and
31:21
Speaker 1: you don't look over to see it. No, U, I
31:25
Speaker 1: was reading AMR. I was. I was reading a sign
31:27
Speaker 1: by the interstate when that happened. You know, it's just
31:29
Speaker 1: here he goes. Royce Layton leads me up to the moment.
31:32
Speaker 1: She's this, she's that, she's awful. She gets boozed up
31:35
Speaker 1: and then something happens. Isn't that a little vague right
31:38
Speaker 1: there at the end? Dr Daniel bober Well, Nancy, that's
31:42
Speaker 1: where the reasonable doud comes in. So there's still other explanations,
31:47
Speaker 1: other credible explanations as to what happened here, and still
31:50
Speaker 1: seems pretty vague at this point, really, like, what what
31:53
Speaker 1: other credible explanation is there? Like the thousands of people
31:57
Speaker 1: online that we're watching her, as the attorney said, one
32:01
Speaker 1: of them could have developed some kind of erotic obsession
32:03
Speaker 1: with her and taking her out. It's very possible, and
32:07
Speaker 1: it's not, you know, uh, that far of a stretch
32:11
Speaker 1: of the imagine, right, So you think that's more likely
32:13
Speaker 1: than her husband gets sicker, he stripping online and kills her. Okay, Well,
32:17
Speaker 1: I guess that's a personal preference or difference, But this
32:20
Speaker 1: is what I know. The local police Department had four
32:23
Speaker 1: detectives assigned to the homicide investigation, two of them working
32:27
Speaker 1: on not a single other case. The chief of the
32:31
Speaker 1: p D said they interviewed dozens and dozens of witnesses,
32:36
Speaker 1: submitted volumes of evidence for testing. Testing Joe Scott Morgan,
32:42
Speaker 1: this is where you come in analysis of a final
32:45
Speaker 1: piece of evidence. A mystery piece of evidence was returned
32:49
Speaker 1: from the Department of Forensic Scientists Sciences in the last
32:53
Speaker 1: twenty four hours, and based on that piece of evidence,
32:57
Speaker 1: the case was submitted in its entirety to the Shelby
33:01
Speaker 1: County d a's office. A lot of evidence was collected,
33:04
Speaker 1: it took weeks to process it all, and based on
33:09
Speaker 1: that piece of evidence, Joseph Scott Morgan, they I think
33:13
Speaker 1: this rest in one of two locations. Nancy was talking
33:16
Speaker 1: about the critical evidence. I think that it's either going
33:18
Speaker 1: to be a weapon or here's a big one. I
33:22
Speaker 1: think it's going to come back to that phone that
33:25
Speaker 1: was found outside of the residents sitting on that curb.
33:28
Speaker 1: I think that they're being very very careful here. They're
33:32
Speaker 1: watching the movements of these individuals and nowadays no one
33:35
Speaker 1: goes anywhere without their phone. If if they're anticipating that
33:40
Speaker 1: this guy is going to say that someone took this
33:43
Speaker 1: woman off somewhere and then brought her back and dumped
33:45
Speaker 1: her inside of that house, um, I think that they
33:49
Speaker 1: want to make sure that every single step, every single
33:52
Speaker 1: electronic footprint is in place before they come forward with
33:55
Speaker 1: an indictment. And I think that that's what they've done.
33:58
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. This is a tragedy. Um,
34:01
Speaker 1: there is a victim. This victim does have family. Um,
34:05
Speaker 1: there is also a fender that has families. A tragedy
34:08
Speaker 1: all the way around for everybody involved. And uh, you know,
34:11
Speaker 1: from day one, we hit this ground, hit the ground
34:16
Speaker 1: running on this case and gave it a effort. Twenty
34:20
Speaker 1: four hours a day, seven days a week. We had
34:23
Speaker 1: detectives working on this case. Uh. There was four detectives
34:27
Speaker 1: from our department signed to this investigation, two of which
34:30
Speaker 1: this was all they did. Um, every day, that's this
34:34
Speaker 1: is all they did. This is all they worked on.
34:35
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of effort that's gone into this case,
34:38
Speaker 1: and there's there's been a lot of assistance involved in
34:41
Speaker 1: this case. I would like to take this as an
34:43
Speaker 1: opportunity to think the cities of Alabaster and the City
34:46
Speaker 1: of Pelham, UH Department of Forensic Science, as well as
34:50
Speaker 1: various federal agencies. Uh. You know, I consider a name
34:54
Speaker 1: off more than a half a dozen of agencies that
34:57
Speaker 1: has assisted us from day one and this investigate issue.
35:00
Speaker 1: And there's a collaborative effort by everybody to bring closure
35:05
Speaker 1: to this case of arrest and as he confessed, Um,
35:10
Speaker 1: as of my last knowledge of this, he is not confession. Uh.
35:21
Speaker 1: I don't really know how to answer that. So, I mean,
35:24
Speaker 1: it's not that he has not been uncooperative, but UM,
35:29
Speaker 1: you know, I would say, I guess somewhat. You know,
35:33
Speaker 1: I really don't know how to answer that question. I'm sorry,
35:41
Speaker 1: I can't know. Sure, I'm sorry. I can tell you
35:43
Speaker 1: is blowing for stronger? There the majority of your homocide
35:46
Speaker 1: organ master, I never last couple of happened. What for
35:50
Speaker 1: the challenges that made this one a little different because previously,
35:54
Speaker 1: you know, you've been out and arrest of them to
35:56
Speaker 1: day of the vaster homicide, right, but it's different about them. Well,
36:00
Speaker 1: the differences involved in this case is the victim's location
36:04
Speaker 1: where she was located. She was outside of the home. Uh.
36:08
Speaker 1: Typically when you have domestic you know, it's typically going
36:12
Speaker 1: to be within side of the residents. Um, this was
36:16
Speaker 1: outside the home across the street. The fact that she
36:19
Speaker 1: was partially nude UM is one of the you know,
36:24
Speaker 1: challenges that brings in a lot of other questions involved
36:29
Speaker 1: in this case. I'm sorry, I was a passioned by motorists,
36:36
Speaker 1: So then you're responsive fact, because it had to be
36:38
Speaker 1: really certainly seemed like I had a couple. Uh and
36:41
Speaker 1: so for I believe lestics well hours later, well at
36:46
Speaker 1: six poet before I played for it to go to
36:48
Speaker 1: this level. Your response to that, Uh, it's domestic. Um.
36:54
Speaker 1: I mean, unfortunately, domestics turned bad very quickly, and anything
36:58
Speaker 1: can triggered them out. So I mean most of us
37:02
Speaker 1: in this room have a spouse, so you know they
37:05
Speaker 1: can you get into an argument, it can change very quickly. Uh,
37:17
Speaker 1: not that I'm aware of, because you don't know if
37:19
Speaker 1: there's no history of the messy vibum that was That's correct?
37:25
Speaker 1: What a sorry people you have it along? Yes, that's correct. Yes,
37:33
Speaker 1: you know, ah, you know it didn't seem to be
37:41
Speaker 1: the times that I've seen him didn't seem to be
37:43
Speaker 1: very upset. So I mean, I guess you can get
37:50
Speaker 1: different readings from different people. Um, you know, I guess
37:54
Speaker 1: people take things differently. So I mean it kind of
37:57
Speaker 1: hard to hurre for me to say it would be unusual,
38:00
Speaker 1: especially in our line of work, because what's unusual to
38:03
Speaker 1: most people's you know, we see a lot. Chief Limely says,
38:09
Speaker 1: there are very few details he can release right now
38:11
Speaker 1: about what led up to the homicide, what specifically made
38:16
Speaker 1: the husband, Jeff West, the number one suspect. Here's this quote.
38:22
Speaker 1: We know exactly what happened that night, and we do
38:26
Speaker 1: have evidence to support that. You know what, We can
38:29
Speaker 1: fight about it till the cows come home. But somewhere
38:32
Speaker 1: right now, that twelve year old little girl doesn't have
38:37
Speaker 1: a mother or a father. United always mean something. It
38:44
Speaker 1: is to think something like that had happened. It was
38:46
Speaker 1: kind of strange. I don't know what type of person
38:49
Speaker 1: could do a thing like that. It's hard to comprehend.
38:51
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't know why anybody would, you know,
38:53
Speaker 1: and abandoned too little babies like it. A rabbit hunter
38:59
Speaker 1: was on a count she rode in northeast Arkansas in
39:02
Speaker 1: the afternoon when he makes a very very grizzly discovery.
39:09
Speaker 1: He sees the purple suitcase and he heads down to it.
39:14
Speaker 1: It's in a roadside ditch with no identification on it.
39:17
Speaker 1: There's I can't really tell how long the suitcase had
39:20
Speaker 1: been there. He opens it up and finds the bodies
39:27
Speaker 1: of two newborn twins. Twin babies found in a purple suitcase,
39:36
Speaker 1: a scruffy suitcase at the bottom of a roadside ditch
39:43
Speaker 1: in Arkansas. I'm looking at the ditch right now, and
39:47
Speaker 1: it's full of muddy water. You would not want to
39:52
Speaker 1: walk down in there. I don't know what propelled this
39:56
Speaker 1: rabbit hunter to actually go down in the ditch and
39:59
Speaker 1: get the suitcase. I would have just left it. But
40:01
Speaker 1: something told him, urged him, propelled him to go down
40:08
Speaker 1: and get the suitcase. Law enforcement in Arkansas are now
40:12
Speaker 1: investigating the bodies of newborn twins discovered in a suitcase
40:19
Speaker 1: by a hunter. It was a ditch near County Road
40:23
Speaker 1: six O two and when around two pm, according to
40:29
Speaker 1: Cross County Sheriff's Office. And they say, of course they're
40:34
Speaker 1: not medical examiners, but they say the children appear to
40:38
Speaker 1: be twins. The autopsy has been completed. Joining me right now,
40:45
Speaker 1: veteran California prosecutor Wendy Patrick. Forensic psychiatrist Dr Carol Lieberman,
40:51
Speaker 1: author of a brand new book, Lions and Tigers and Terrorists,
40:56
Speaker 1: Oh My, How to Keep Your Child Safe. It's on Amazon.
41:00
Speaker 1: End with me. Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University,
41:04
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan to Wendy Patrick. Wendy, you're analyzing this.
41:11
Speaker 1: I'm going straight to you because we know, beyond a
41:15
Speaker 1: shadow of a doubt, not a reasonable doubt, but beyond
41:18
Speaker 1: the shadow of a doubt, that this is a crime.
41:22
Speaker 1: Because if children die in childbirth, that's one thing, But
41:26
Speaker 1: why would they be a lot in a suitcase and
41:29
Speaker 1: thrown down into a ditch full of muddy water. Yeah? Absolutely, Nancy,
41:35
Speaker 1: we're looking at a cover up is the very first
41:38
Speaker 1: word that's gonna come to everyone's mind. Cover up of
41:40
Speaker 1: a crime. I've prosecuted cases where mothers have attempted to
41:44
Speaker 1: dispose of newborns. I know you might have to. It's
41:47
Speaker 1: one of those scenarios that is horrifying to a judge
41:50
Speaker 1: injury to think that anybody is capable of this, But
41:53
Speaker 1: we know that they are, and this case could be
41:55
Speaker 1: in that category. It is so strange, and I love
41:59
Speaker 1: that you point it out. It's so random that somebody
42:02
Speaker 1: would have gone down to investigate, but the hand of
42:04
Speaker 1: God was probably on that hunter told them to go there.
42:06
Speaker 1: And look. Now we start moving backwards and attempting to
42:10
Speaker 1: trace where that suitcase came from. It maybe a painful process,
42:14
Speaker 1: but as we start looking in retrospect, where whose suitcase
42:17
Speaker 1: it was, who was in the area, any kind of
42:20
Speaker 1: eyewitness audio, video footage. This is the kind of case
42:23
Speaker 1: that can be solved before it goes cold if we
42:26
Speaker 1: jump on it right away, as the authorities are doing.
42:28
Speaker 1: Santia Wallace, who lives nearby, heard the news and was
42:32
Speaker 1: in tears and shaken up. This is what she tells
42:36
Speaker 1: local station w r e G. When I left this evening,
42:41
Speaker 1: I was shaking up, like I was in tears here.
42:43
Speaker 1: I am want to have kids and for you to
42:46
Speaker 1: like kill them, like who does that? You could send
42:49
Speaker 1: into the fire station, you know, something like that. You
42:51
Speaker 1: don't have to kill no kids. If you have information.
42:54
Speaker 1: Chipline eight seven zero to three eight five seven hundred
42:59
Speaker 1: just got more in Right now. The autopsy has just
43:03
Speaker 1: been completed. What do we know so far, Well, they're
43:06
Speaker 1: not really giving up a lot of information. What we
43:08
Speaker 1: do know what they're releasing is that it appears that, uh,
43:12
Speaker 1: these two little babies were were premature. They're thinking probably
43:16
Speaker 1: a gestational age of about thirty two to thirty four weeks,
43:20
Speaker 1: which would make them uh ballparking at roughly six to
43:24
Speaker 1: eight weeks premature. Uh don't know anything right now at
43:27
Speaker 1: this moment about identification or about what might have brought
43:32
Speaker 1: about their death, if it was an in utero death,
43:35
Speaker 1: or if some if they you know, if they came
43:38
Speaker 1: came to some kind of grizzly end following birth. Uh.
43:41
Speaker 1: There's gonna be a lot of things, a lot of
43:43
Speaker 1: questions that are gonna need to be answered. Uh. We
43:46
Speaker 1: were just discussing this idea that um, that being able
43:51
Speaker 1: to identify these children, and that's really where we're gonna start,
43:55
Speaker 1: and a lot of that's gonna start, uh, Nancy in
43:57
Speaker 1: two places. First off, with this suit case, because it
44:01
Speaker 1: will be distinctive. We already know that it's purple. Uh.
44:04
Speaker 1: Is there are there any identifiers on it, any kind
44:06
Speaker 1: of markings on it that would tie back to some place.
44:09
Speaker 1: And this is the one troubling thing that I'm thinking
44:12
Speaker 1: about here, Nancy, is that, uh the suitcase, as you
44:15
Speaker 1: well mentioned, was immediately adjacent to a ditch. I'm looking
44:19
Speaker 1: at the pictures as well. Through the South, there have
44:21
Speaker 1: been a number of really strong thunderstorms over the past week.
44:26
Speaker 1: It is not beyond possibility here that that this this
44:32
Speaker 1: suitcase could have traveled down this ditch some distance, maybe
44:36
Speaker 1: came out of a creek. You never know, and that's
44:39
Speaker 1: something that you have to also as an investigator explore
44:41
Speaker 1: going back upstream, what's the point of origin of this
44:45
Speaker 1: or did somebody just merely toss it out of a
44:47
Speaker 1: car as they're driving across the bridge the way I'm
44:50
Speaker 1: looking at the bridge, I see I don't even know
44:54
Speaker 1: if it could handle a car. I guess it could.
44:56
Speaker 1: It looks like it's um a steel enforced but it
45:00
Speaker 1: looks more like a gully or a ditch. And it
45:03
Speaker 1: leads me to believe it is someone local, because who
45:07
Speaker 1: else is going to know about this ditch. It's like
45:10
Speaker 1: off the side of a road as far as I
45:12
Speaker 1: can see. And regarding the autopsy that finds the infants
45:16
Speaker 1: believed to be twins at a gestational age of about
45:19
Speaker 1: thirty two to thirty four weeks at six to eight
45:22
Speaker 1: weeks premature, well that doesn't mean that they were born stillborn.
45:26
Speaker 1: My twins were had just gotten one day into the
45:30
Speaker 1: thirty first week. They were thirty one weeks. Um wait, no, no, yeah, no,
45:36
Speaker 1: it was the first day to thirty two weeks, as
45:38
Speaker 1: I recall, and they were born alive and not totally
45:43
Speaker 1: well we're in Nikki for a long time, but that
45:47
Speaker 1: does not mean they were born stillborn, and that is
45:50
Speaker 1: also a very simple test to determine were they uh
45:55
Speaker 1: dead upon birth, were they stillborn, or were they killed afterward?
45:59
Speaker 1: How do you do that, Joseph Scott Morgan, Well, yeah, obviously,
46:04
Speaker 1: one of the first things we're gonna look at is uh,
46:06
Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about this in the in the
46:08
Speaker 1: in the past, relative to what's referred to as a
46:10
Speaker 1: float test. Uh kind of grizzly here, but one of
46:13
Speaker 1: the things that we do at autopsy, lease take a
46:15
Speaker 1: look at the lungs to see, in fact, have they
46:19
Speaker 1: are they fully inflated, have they inhalated air? You know,
46:22
Speaker 1: after you know, after the child is born, is air
46:25
Speaker 1: taken in? Are the lungs expanded? And you're right, Nancy,
46:29
Speaker 1: these children are well within the parameters for a viable birth.
46:33
Speaker 1: And what that means is that there within those parameters
46:36
Speaker 1: where they could have sustained life outside of the womb. Uh.
46:41
Speaker 1: So we can't just assume in fact that they were
46:44
Speaker 1: still born. And that's that's gonna be one of the
46:46
Speaker 1: big questions that the Arkansas state medical examiner is gonna
46:49
Speaker 1: be taken a look at in this case. Uh. You know,
46:52
Speaker 1: as they kind of go down their checklist, they're gonna
46:55
Speaker 1: look at things like uh physcal anomalies obviously, and then
47:00
Speaker 1: they're going to go down the checklist looking at any
47:03
Speaker 1: and I mean any kind of trauma that these children
47:06
Speaker 1: may have sustained, either during the birth process which is
47:10
Speaker 1: a traumatic event, or after birth where harm could have
47:15
Speaker 1: been put upon these two to lote angels. Right now,
47:17
Speaker 1: police probing the cause of death of newborn twins, their
47:21
Speaker 1: little tiny bodies found in a purple suitcase discarded along
47:27
Speaker 1: a roadway in a ditch. The autopsy reveals the babies
47:31
Speaker 1: were premature, and they believe one of the babies was
47:36
Speaker 1: a little girl you know. To Dctor Carol Lieberman, forensic psychiatrist,
47:41
Speaker 1: author of a new book on Amazon, Dr Carol uh,
47:45
Speaker 1: a parent's love has been described like this, um. If
47:51
Speaker 1: your child wants a treat, do you give it a scorpion? No?
47:58
Speaker 1: You try to give your child old their hearts, desire
48:04
Speaker 1: to make them happy, out of love, out of self
48:07
Speaker 1: sacrificing love, because they are more important to you than
48:14
Speaker 1: you are. I just can't imagine someone putting these children,
48:19
Speaker 1: these babies, infants, newborns, into a suitcase and flinging them
48:26
Speaker 1: into a ditch. Dr Carol, Yes, it's really it's really
48:31
Speaker 1: very painful to imagine. Um. You know, the fact that
48:36
Speaker 1: you can come up because so little is known about it,
48:38
Speaker 1: you can come up with all kinds of scenarios. Um.
48:42
Speaker 1: You know, first of all, the fact that it's a
48:43
Speaker 1: purple suitcase, that that would typically be a woman who
48:48
Speaker 1: would have a purple suitcase, not a man. But that
48:50
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that a man wasn't involved if it was
48:53
Speaker 1: something that happened after birth in some kind of violence
48:56
Speaker 1: that caused the death of the children, for example, domestic violence.
49:00
Speaker 1: You know a lot of times men who are perpetrators
49:02
Speaker 1: of domestic violence particularly do this when the woman is pregnant.
49:06
Speaker 1: So perhaps there was a man involved who pushed downstairs
49:09
Speaker 1: or kicked her or you know something, and these babies
49:12
Speaker 1: were born prematurely, and then um, they didn't want to
49:15
Speaker 1: get in trouble, and so they put them in a suitcase.
49:17
Speaker 1: I mean, you can kind of come up with a
49:19
Speaker 1: whole bunch of different things. Um, but at least, you know,
49:23
Speaker 1: I would imagine that the DNA would be of help
49:26
Speaker 1: as well in terms of UM if someone was in
49:31
Speaker 1: the if the DNA is on file for some reason, UM,
49:35
Speaker 1: that would of course help them to find who the
49:37
Speaker 1: parents were as well. DNA of course. Wendy Patrick, California Prosecutor,
49:43
Speaker 1: she's right. If you try to take the infants to DNA,
49:46
Speaker 1: you've gotta have something to compare it to the mother
49:50
Speaker 1: or the father, or if there's familial DNA in that
49:53
Speaker 1: jurisdiction has to be in a system. You've got to
49:57
Speaker 1: have something to compare it to to make a match. Uh,
50:00
Speaker 1: there could be DNA on the suitcase. Wendy, that's right.
50:03
Speaker 1: And you know, boy, you talk about the ultimate precious cargo,
50:06
Speaker 1: talking about this being found in a suitcase. Yes, that's
50:09
Speaker 1: the first place you're going to look once as uh,
50:12
Speaker 1: as has been pointed out, you're going to try to
50:13
Speaker 1: figure out whether the child, whether the children were born
50:16
Speaker 1: alive or not. The DNA trail sometimes just leads to
50:20
Speaker 1: frustration if, as you say, Nancy, we don't have anybody
50:23
Speaker 1: to compare it to. But these are the kinds of
50:26
Speaker 1: cases that we don't want to grow cold, so we
50:29
Speaker 1: can continue. And you know, who knows what DNA might
50:32
Speaker 1: become on file as a case moves forward. We've seen
50:35
Speaker 1: many cases where you get a d N a hit
50:38
Speaker 1: far after the fact because somebody else comes into the database.
50:41
Speaker 1: That may be one of these. You know, it's too
50:43
Speaker 1: early to know yet, but you know, the very first
50:45
Speaker 1: order of business, no doubt, is going to be trying
50:47
Speaker 1: to figure out not only how those children died, but
50:50
Speaker 1: where did they come from, who did they belong to?
50:53
Speaker 1: And then of course we'll move to motive once we
50:55
Speaker 1: get some more clue. Well, obviously, who ever gave birth
50:58
Speaker 1: knows about this because nobody has been reported missing infant children,
51:05
Speaker 1: infant twins have not been reported missing in the area.
51:10
Speaker 1: So what does that say to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, Well,
51:13
Speaker 1: you know, I I gotta tell you something makes me
51:15
Speaker 1: feel as though that that they really need to take
51:18
Speaker 1: a look at young, young women, young girls. I've seen
51:24
Speaker 1: this kind of play out before where you'll have, uh say,
51:28
Speaker 1: a hidden pregnancy, which boy twins would be very hard
51:32
Speaker 1: to to hide. At that point, there should be somebody
51:35
Speaker 1: that would know something. If you have a young, unwed
51:38
Speaker 1: mother that has no desire to have a baby, uh,
51:43
Speaker 1: this might be a quick way to dispose of the
51:46
Speaker 1: child's of the children's bodies. Uh, this is something that
51:49
Speaker 1: I would look at. But just so our listeners understand,
51:53
Speaker 1: we're talking about d n A. You're right, it is
51:55
Speaker 1: many times frustrating and a dead end when it comes
51:59
Speaker 1: to trying to marry DNA found out of scene. Are
52:02
Speaker 1: our d NA off of a known or an unknown body?
52:06
Speaker 1: Back to the database, because there are essentially two databases.
52:09
Speaker 1: There's databases of known offenders and these are very specific,
52:13
Speaker 1: and then we have what's referred to as a forensic database,
52:16
Speaker 1: and that's unknown perpetrators that are out there that have
52:20
Speaker 1: committed horrible crimes. And yeah, I think that it's worth
52:24
Speaker 1: a look. We can take that DNA and plug it
52:27
Speaker 1: into the system and see if there's a hit either
52:30
Speaker 1: mom or dad or familiar DNA. You never know what's
52:34
Speaker 1: gonna be out there, But right now we're kind of
52:38
Speaker 1: in the infant stages of development of a significant database
52:43
Speaker 1: relative to DNA. We also know this the location according
52:47
Speaker 1: to neighbors quote, we have cars that drive through drive
52:51
Speaker 1: through here all the time, but it's pretty quiet road
52:55
Speaker 1: because we're outside of town. That's why we chose to
52:57
Speaker 1: live here. So this is an out of the way,
53:00
Speaker 1: a roadway outside of town, which means you narrow it
53:05
Speaker 1: down to who knew about this location? The tipline eight
53:09
Speaker 1: seven zero two. This is what I don't want as
53:15
Speaker 1: a prosecutor. I saw every day cases pled down or
53:20
Speaker 1: treating more lightly when the victim was a child or
53:24
Speaker 1: an infant. Why is that? I don't know. Their life
53:28
Speaker 1: is just as valuable as an adults, but it happens.
53:34
Speaker 1: These are not statistics. This is a real case with
53:38
Speaker 1: real infant twins, And I'm reminded of my twins when
53:43
Speaker 1: they were so helpless and just born. They were so fragile,
53:50
Speaker 1: I was almost afraid to hold them. Now, all they
53:54
Speaker 1: have is us and the justice system to be their voice.
53:59
Speaker 1: Tipline eight seven zero two, eight fifty seven hundred Nancy
54:05
Speaker 1: Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend. Yeah,