Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Full Episode - Trump Gets A “Deal” While Throwing Himself A Party - Why Hispanics Are Now The Swing Vote In America… And How To Reach Them

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Full Episode - Trump Gets A “Deal” While Throwing Himself A Party - Why Hispanics Are Now The Swing Vote In America… And How To Reach Them · The Chuck ToddCast

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Speaker 1: vary and rates may vary. Hello there, and happy Monday,
1:47
Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of the Chuck Podcast. I
1:50
Speaker 1: want to do a quick rundown here because if I don't,
1:53
Speaker 1: it's going to feel like groundhog Day, because apparently I've
1:56
Speaker 1: got to. We're going to start with an apparent deal
2:00
Speaker 1: to stop the war in Iran. I don't know if
2:02
Speaker 1: you've heard that before. But if you want us to
2:06
Speaker 1: queue Sonny and Cher, I would understand at this point
2:11
Speaker 1: because it feels like deja vous all over again, Groundhog Day,
2:14
Speaker 1: pick your cliche, but it's clear we're getting to someplace
2:19
Speaker 1: a little bit different. If the strait gets open, that
2:23
Speaker 1: is a little bit different. But we're going to get
2:25
Speaker 1: to that in a minute. My guest today is the
2:28
Speaker 1: CEO of tel Avisa Univision. It is Daniel Allegra. We
2:32
Speaker 1: have a really wide ranging conversation about media in general,
2:36
Speaker 1: Latino voters, the fact that it is not a monolithic group,
2:41
Speaker 1: meaning that not all Hispanic voters in California vote like Texas,
2:45
Speaker 1: Hispanics vote like Florida'spanics, and the different ways that his
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Speaker 1: organization tries to appeal both on the news sense, entertainment,
2:55
Speaker 1: sports culture. Right, this is sort of a revamped Univision,
2:59
Speaker 1: and of course, with the merger with Televisa, which was
3:02
Speaker 1: one of the largest media organizations in Mexico, now tel
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Speaker 1: Avisa Universion essentially, arguably probably has the largest North American
3:14
Speaker 1: audience of Latinos. There is, hands down, period, and so
3:19
Speaker 1: the stuff they've been they've been doing, they want to
3:22
Speaker 1: get more active and essentially being the being the home
3:27
Speaker 1: for understanding the complicated Latino electorate. He's got some interesting
3:33
Speaker 1: nuggets about the Texas Senate race. For instance, James tell
3:37
Speaker 1: Rico outspent he notes Jasmine Crockett eight to one in
3:42
Speaker 1: Spanish language advertising, and he won the Hispanic vote by
3:45
Speaker 1: about eight to one. Essentially his a little bit of
3:48
Speaker 1: a pitch by him by saying, hey, you should be
3:50
Speaker 1: advertising on Spanish language television if you want to talk
3:53
Speaker 1: to us swing voters. So it's a little bit of
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Speaker 1: a pitch, but a little bit of a reality check
3:59
Speaker 1: as well. I think it's a fascinating conversation. I found
4:03
Speaker 1: Daniel Legray really interesting and one of the more interesting
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Speaker 1: media execs that are out there today. It's frankly been,
4:11
Speaker 1: you know, as we all know, the current heads of
4:14
Speaker 1: these media organizations, at these legacy media companies, they've been
4:18
Speaker 1: they're kind of wanting, you know, not a lot of
4:21
Speaker 1: innovation going along, not a lot of forward thinking going along. Obviously,
4:28
Speaker 1: we'll see how his tenure holds up at tel Avisa
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Speaker 1: Universy owned, but I get the sense that at least
4:33
Speaker 1: he's thinking about things a little bit differently, and I
4:35
Speaker 1: think it's worth time in that conversation my time machine,
4:40
Speaker 1: I go back to the second most relevant Nix appearance
4:45
Speaker 1: in an NBA finals in my lifetime. That's my clue
4:51
Speaker 1: for the topic I am tackling for the time Machine
4:55
Speaker 1: segment this week. As you know, it is always a
4:58
Speaker 1: historical something that happened in history that's relevant today, that
5:02
Speaker 1: happened that it happens to be the anniversary week of
5:05
Speaker 1: said historical event. Frankly, I think most of you will
5:09
Speaker 1: get this one because you'll start to think about the calendar.
5:11
Speaker 1: You'll start to think about the Knicks. What other times
5:15
Speaker 1: has the Knick's been in the finals, And like I said,
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Speaker 1: you'll figure it out. Plus we'll do some questions and
5:23
Speaker 1: we'll go from there. But let's start with this Iran
5:26
Speaker 1: deal that President Trump was desperate to have signed on
5:31
Speaker 1: his eightieth birthday. Before the birthday party he's throwing himself
5:36
Speaker 1: at the South Lawn. If it gets we'll see what
5:42
Speaker 1: kind of shape the South Lawn is is in. After
5:46
Speaker 1: the spectacle of the UFC and all of that, I
5:49
Speaker 1: have to say, I don't you know he really wanted
5:51
Speaker 1: to have a birthday party for himself. Everything I understand
5:55
Speaker 1: about the UFC. Dana white doesn't like to have outdoor events.
5:58
Speaker 1: It doesn't have many outdoor events. Door events you can't control.
6:02
Speaker 1: The weather gets in the way, especially outdoor event. That's
6:04
Speaker 1: basically the end of spring, early summer. June is summer here,
6:08
Speaker 1: not June twentieth. Frankly, summer begins usually Memorial Day in Washington.
6:13
Speaker 1: So you want to talk about a high risk thing
6:16
Speaker 1: to do in Washington holding an outdoor event. It was
6:20
Speaker 1: amusing watching this White House get angry at weather forecasters,
6:25
Speaker 1: whether you're at the Weather Channel or other places, as
6:27
Speaker 1: if the weather was liberal, right, you know, somehow those
6:31
Speaker 1: liberal Maybe I don't know, maybe the Jewish space lasers
6:34
Speaker 1: liberal weather forecasts. See, maybe I don't know. Maybe I'm
6:37
Speaker 1: missing something here. Maybe I'm the idiot, right, But you know,
6:44
Speaker 1: like everything Trump does, and I'm going to get into
6:45
Speaker 1: this a little bit after the Iran deal, you know,
6:48
Speaker 1: he could have had what he wanted out of this
6:51
Speaker 1: doing it at the Capitol One Arena on his birthday night.
6:54
Speaker 1: It's still would have had his birthday party. He could
6:55
Speaker 1: have done it at a Chuck E Cheese like most
6:57
Speaker 1: kids do for their birthdays. Trying so hard to make
7:02
Speaker 1: this seem like a once in a lifetime opportunity in
7:05
Speaker 1: Washington that somehow leaves a mark. You know, he's so
7:09
Speaker 1: desperate to leave a mark. Maybe he ought to like
7:12
Speaker 1: do something consequential in a positive direction that will make
7:16
Speaker 1: others want to mark that occasion. But that, of course,
7:20
Speaker 1: is not how he operates. But let's start with the
7:24
Speaker 1: never ending negotiation with Iran and the reason I'm calling
7:28
Speaker 1: it that because even this deal that's been agreed to
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Speaker 1: is a deal to essentially begin a new negotiation. So
7:35
Speaker 1: the only thing that is apparently happening with this deal
7:38
Speaker 1: for now is that some chunk of change is going
7:42
Speaker 1: to the Iranians in exchange for them to open the
7:45
Speaker 1: strait and a promise to negotiate over their nuclear ambitions
7:52
Speaker 1: seems to be the summary of the deal, right, And
7:54
Speaker 1: the thing is that is it a good deal? Is
7:56
Speaker 1: it a bad deal? It doesn't seem like a great deal. Yet,
7:59
Speaker 1: in fairness, we'll let them see and negotiate this out
8:04
Speaker 1: and see what kind of deal they ultimately get here.
8:07
Speaker 1: But as frankly, anybody who's ever negotiated knows, you would
8:11
Speaker 1: think somebody who wrote something called the Art of the
8:13
Speaker 1: deal would know this, but he struggles with these things.
8:17
Speaker 1: The person that wants the deal worst usually gets the
8:19
Speaker 1: worst end of the deal. Well, who wants the deal
8:21
Speaker 1: in a worse way? It is? It is Donald Trump.
8:28
Speaker 1: But let's talk about this because we're certainly at a
8:32
Speaker 1: point where we're in an inflection point where I think
8:37
Speaker 1: we can talk about the failure of this war. And
8:45
Speaker 1: since we're celebrating the World Cup, and I don't know
8:48
Speaker 1: if I'm allowed to say World Cup, but I challenge
8:52
Speaker 1: FIFA to go ahead and attack me for saying World Cup.
8:57
Speaker 1: But you know, this is a period of the World
9:01
Speaker 1: Cup where ties matter, and I think it's safe to
9:06
Speaker 1: say that the starting of this Iran war was an
9:09
Speaker 1: own goal by the president, handing over new leverage like
9:13
Speaker 1: the straight of Hormuz to the Iranians definitely was an
9:16
Speaker 1: own goal. The question is has he at least salvaged
9:20
Speaker 1: a tie, which we know in group play can at
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Speaker 1: least allow you to live another day and to fight
9:27
Speaker 1: another day and in this case, perhaps negotiate something better
9:31
Speaker 1: in another day. But let's talk about what the initial
9:37
Speaker 1: people seem to forget, what the initial war goals were,
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Speaker 1: and what they look like in this memo of understanding
9:45
Speaker 1: three months later, nearly four months later. So the stated
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Speaker 1: war aim was to dismantle nuclear infrastructure. Well, what do
9:54
Speaker 1: we get out of the memo of understanding? We don't
9:56
Speaker 1: know yet on that front, there's been that part of
9:59
Speaker 1: it is postponed. All this deal settles for is a
10:02
Speaker 1: sixty day negotiation window to begin the process of a
10:06
Speaker 1: nuclear deal. Iran has yet to surrender a single set refuge.
10:12
Speaker 1: They've simply agreed to talk about it later. So war
10:17
Speaker 1: aim number one not yet achieved. Question is will it
10:20
Speaker 1: ever be achieved? All right? Stated war aim number two
10:25
Speaker 1: was a pledge that there would be no sanctions relief
10:28
Speaker 1: and no cash, no palettes of cash. Already there are reports,
10:33
Speaker 1: at least the Iranians are saying this and Americans are
10:35
Speaker 1: not dying denying it, that twenty four billion dollars has
10:39
Speaker 1: been released to Iran. So they have secured the unfreezing
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Speaker 1: of a massive amount of their assets, twenty four billion
10:48
Speaker 1: dollars worth, and it may end up laundered through the
10:52
Speaker 1: Gulf States, if that's what Trump wants to do to
10:54
Speaker 1: make himselves feel better. As if no, no, no, no, I'm
10:56
Speaker 1: not directly giving them money. It may go through a
10:59
Speaker 1: pass through some sort. You know. It's like it's like
11:03
Speaker 1: them trying to get rid of the Kennedy If you
11:05
Speaker 1: don't let see people like, if you don't let the
11:07
Speaker 1: world see his name getting taken down from the Kennedy Center,
11:12
Speaker 1: you can just jedi mind, trick it and gaslight people
11:14
Speaker 1: that let it never happen. This is not the Kennedy
11:16
Speaker 1: Center you're looking for. And Aron gets oil export relief.
11:23
Speaker 1: That's a pretty big win for them. Securing the strait
11:28
Speaker 1: of hormuse was something that we did not think we
11:31
Speaker 1: were going to be giving up when we started this war.
11:33
Speaker 1: And we gave it up. So then what did we
11:37
Speaker 1: have to do. We had to essentially pay them off
11:43
Speaker 1: to convince them not to start charging tolls in the straight. Right,
11:46
Speaker 1: That's what the twenty four billion dollars in. It's basically, here,
11:49
Speaker 1: we just open the straight and here's some money to
11:52
Speaker 1: do it. By the way, Iran hasn't fully given up
11:58
Speaker 1: this idea that they can't charge some for something on
12:01
Speaker 1: the straight here, but this has been This is why
12:04
Speaker 1: those that really hate the president want to say, hey,
12:08
Speaker 1: this is a defeat. Look, I don't think that we
12:10
Speaker 1: can sit here and say around won this conflict against
12:15
Speaker 1: the United States and Israel. But what they did do
12:19
Speaker 1: is they humiliated the United States in this one because
12:24
Speaker 1: they were able to essentially wait out the United States
12:29
Speaker 1: and they got extra leverage in something that they didn't
12:33
Speaker 1: know was going to be. And then, of course the
12:35
Speaker 1: other issue was to crush the proxies, get once and
12:39
Speaker 1: for all, try to stop Iran from essentially funding Hesbala
12:43
Speaker 1: Hamas and the UTIs who have been just wreaking havoc
12:46
Speaker 1: all over the Middle East. Well, the deal is bailing
12:51
Speaker 1: out Hesbelah. There you get to be involved in this
12:56
Speaker 1: cease fire. Let's just say the Israelis are not happy
13:01
Speaker 1: about that one. And more importantly, but Roan now gets
13:06
Speaker 1: money to go back and fund has Bela, fund Hamas,
13:12
Speaker 1: fund the Hooties. Last time I checked, a guy named
13:15
Speaker 1: a candidate named Donald Trump eviscerated Barack Obama for negotiating
13:19
Speaker 1: a deal that handed cash to the Iranians that the
13:22
Speaker 1: Israeli said was going to end up being funneled right
13:25
Speaker 1: to Hamas and the Hooties. If you believe that is
13:28
Speaker 1: what happened the last time, then why the heck would
13:30
Speaker 1: you hand them more money this time. So bottom line,
13:38
Speaker 1: if success in this war was to be defined by
13:41
Speaker 1: the destruction of the Iranian nuclear program and regime change,
13:46
Speaker 1: then guess what. This looks closer to an Iranian victory
13:50
Speaker 1: than it is an American one because the regime has survived,
13:53
Speaker 1: their nuclear program is not dead. They have new leverage
13:59
Speaker 1: with the straight of horm mooves because they can the
14:02
Speaker 1: threat of closing it sits there yet again. And frankly,
14:06
Speaker 1: they know that this president doesn't have is not going
14:08
Speaker 1: to restart military hostilities before the midterms. Alroan took direct
14:17
Speaker 1: hits from Israel. The United States used the straight of
14:20
Speaker 1: hormones as an economic weapon, held it and essentially pulled
14:25
Speaker 1: the trigger at the West Head, and they walked away intact.
14:29
Speaker 1: So you understand why the Iranians are feeling pretty good
14:32
Speaker 1: about it itself. The question is what are the lessons
14:38
Speaker 1: will other adversaries draw from what happened here? So look,
14:45
Speaker 1: the White House is going to argue the following that
14:48
Speaker 1: the three months of devastating US and Israeli air strikes
14:51
Speaker 1: shattered arounds infrastructure, forced them to scramble to mine and
14:55
Speaker 1: in tomb their own uranium. Sites that it finally brought
14:58
Speaker 1: them to the table. They'll say the deterrence worked because
15:01
Speaker 1: around backed down from a permanent blockade. And yet every
15:09
Speaker 1: revisionist power right from North Korea to China to Russia,
15:14
Speaker 1: they're all watching this play out. And if Iran ultimately
15:18
Speaker 1: retains its enrichment capacity, gets billions back, and achieves direct
15:26
Speaker 1: diplomatic normalization with the United States without regime change, then
15:32
Speaker 1: a lesson here is pretty clear. Conventional weapons can get
15:36
Speaker 1: you targeted, and proximity to a nuclear bomb can get
15:41
Speaker 1: you a signing ceremony. Here's the fear I have in
15:45
Speaker 1: all of this. Iran is sort of getting what it
15:50
Speaker 1: look it doesn't have what it wants, but it has
15:53
Speaker 1: what it needs because they've been pursuing a nuclear weapon,
15:58
Speaker 1: and yes, that attracted military strike and military attacks, but
16:04
Speaker 1: whence you see what it's done for North Korea. There
16:08
Speaker 1: is not a single incentive here that has been changed
16:11
Speaker 1: for the Iranians not to find any way possible to
16:16
Speaker 1: finish the job and get a nuclear weapon. Landscape is
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18:30
Speaker 1: he never should have started this war, and if he
18:32
Speaker 1: was going to start it, he should have. Actually, I
18:34
Speaker 1: told you this the other day. He half asked this.
18:37
Speaker 1: He wanted an easy win bb Netanya, who gave him
18:42
Speaker 1: a bullshit plan that made him think it was going
18:45
Speaker 1: to be easy. It wasn't true. There wasn't going to
18:49
Speaker 1: be regime change, there wasn't going to be this this this,
18:54
Speaker 1: you know, the weapons weren't there for the people to
18:56
Speaker 1: rise up and take their country back as as as
18:59
Speaker 1: all was fantasized by some if you were serious about this,
19:06
Speaker 1: then you had to go all in, and Anna had
19:07
Speaker 1: to go in with ground troops, and you were going
19:09
Speaker 1: to have to forcibly take control of the Strait immediately
19:14
Speaker 1: and actually and finish this task. But there was Look,
19:17
Speaker 1: he didn't have the appetite for it, and maybe it
19:20
Speaker 1: wasn't Look, and we're talking something that might have taken years.
19:26
Speaker 1: Just ask the Russians how easy it is to overthrow
19:32
Speaker 1: a regime that you don't like. So it was a
19:38
Speaker 1: I mean, the irony is that before this war started,
19:40
Speaker 1: we didn't have a problem with the straight u foremos
19:43
Speaker 1: one of the hottest places for money to be invested
19:47
Speaker 1: around the world was in the golf States. Now this
19:53
Speaker 1: is sitting here, we have an unsteady ceasefire. Right, Trump
19:57
Speaker 1: is sort of you know, proclaiming that you know, and
19:59
Speaker 1: by the way we got you think, how many times
20:02
Speaker 1: is this deal going to look like it falls apart
20:04
Speaker 1: between now and Friday? Right, We're going to hear and
20:07
Speaker 1: I'm going to get to bb here in a minute.
20:09
Speaker 1: Who I think is probably the biggest loser in all
20:11
Speaker 1: of this is bebing and I'll get to that in
20:13
Speaker 1: a few minutes, but how often over the next and
20:18
Speaker 1: I think we all have to be prepared for that.
20:22
Speaker 1: But even if everything gets to this signing ceremony, which
20:26
Speaker 1: remember what this is, this is not a deal. It's
20:28
Speaker 1: a deal to begin serious negotiations over an actual deal
20:33
Speaker 1: that will be some form of the nuclear deal that
20:38
Speaker 1: the Obama administration negotiated with. How close it is aligned
20:42
Speaker 1: to it is going to probably be in the eye
20:44
Speaker 1: of the beholder, and that's if they get that far.
20:49
Speaker 1: The point is this is incredibly fragile, and you're going
20:53
Speaker 1: to have a very antsi Israeli government that is not
20:57
Speaker 1: going to feel comfortable and it is frankly not going
20:59
Speaker 1: to feel bound by any of this in trying to
21:02
Speaker 1: push back at Hesbelo and I have a feeling Hesbela
21:05
Speaker 1: is going to test this ceasefire and say, okay, let's see,
21:07
Speaker 1: We're going to try to poke Israel in the eye
21:10
Speaker 1: and see if they can do this. Now, maybe the
21:13
Speaker 1: Iranians really want to deal, and if they really want
21:18
Speaker 1: to deal, they'll put a leash on Hesbela. So that's
21:26
Speaker 1: something we'll find out here. But the biggest loser here
21:29
Speaker 1: is BB right, because BB, I mean this is where
21:33
Speaker 1: a guy he is. You want to talk about a
21:34
Speaker 1: guy that is completely miscalculated American politics, right, he antagonizes
21:40
Speaker 1: Barack Obama creates a long term problem for support for
21:44
Speaker 1: the State of Israel in the Democratic Party by essentially
21:49
Speaker 1: getting involved in American politics and becoming a partisan against Obama,
21:54
Speaker 1: dividing the demography, essentially essentially alienating and generation of Democratic
22:01
Speaker 1: supporters of Barack Obama. And if you're gonna tell me
22:05
Speaker 1: Barack Obama is anti Israel, you are somebody that is
22:13
Speaker 1: just you're pretty far out out there on the right
22:17
Speaker 1: word extreme if you think Obama's actions were somehow antire Israel.
22:23
Speaker 1: He was a bit more skeptical of BB publicly than
22:26
Speaker 1: many previous presidents. But my goodness, every president that's dealt
22:30
Speaker 1: with BBE eventually found themselves telling them off or wishing
22:36
Speaker 1: they could tell him off, including this one, Donald Trump.
22:39
Speaker 1: And that brings me to his other miscalculation. He decided
22:42
Speaker 1: to get into bed with Trump, and he thought he
22:45
Speaker 1: could exploit Trump, and he thought he could use Trump. Right.
22:49
Speaker 1: Everybody thinks this with Trump, right, We saw it in
22:54
Speaker 1: the first administration. There would all these people think they
22:56
Speaker 1: can go in there and they contain Trump, they can
22:58
Speaker 1: control Trump, they can maneuver Trump and the way they
23:01
Speaker 1: want to maneuver them, And then they get caught with
23:03
Speaker 1: their pants down, I know by the way they tie
23:10
Speaker 1: their own political future to Trump, and Trump is the
23:13
Speaker 1: most unreliable partner to tie yourself to. And bb Netna,
23:17
Speaker 1: who's learning this the hard way and he is getting
23:20
Speaker 1: hammered domestically at home. But basically, you put your faith
23:23
Speaker 1: in this guy and he left you basically in the
23:27
Speaker 1: waiting room. Bob's not even getting briefed on the basics
23:30
Speaker 1: of this deal until the rest of the world gets
23:32
Speaker 1: briefed on the rest of this deal. So he is
23:35
Speaker 1: the biggest loser here. This is going to there are
23:39
Speaker 1: going to be elections in the fall, I imagine because
23:44
Speaker 1: of that political calendar. He is going to get antsy
23:47
Speaker 1: with Hesbelah and we're just going to have a very
23:50
Speaker 1: unstable climate while this supposed negotiation over long term nuclear
23:56
Speaker 1: agreement with the Iranians gets negotiated between the United States
23:59
Speaker 1: and Iran and I and you know that there are
24:04
Speaker 1: any which way this could go sideways, And so it's
24:11
Speaker 1: funny the White House late Sunday night put out a
24:19
Speaker 1: put out a press release about the deal, and it
24:22
Speaker 1: said this historic achievement. President Trump broker's historic peace deal
24:28
Speaker 1: with Iran. And so let's what part of that headline
24:32
Speaker 1: is at all defensible. I guess you could say it's
24:37
Speaker 1: a historic and that this is an historic moment for
24:39
Speaker 1: the Iranians. Maybe it's a peace deal, but we don't
24:44
Speaker 1: even know how much peace is going to be kept,
24:47
Speaker 1: particularly between Israel and Hesbela with sort of Lebanon and
24:51
Speaker 1: the balance there. And we only had to broke He
24:55
Speaker 1: only had to get involved with brokering a peace deal
24:58
Speaker 1: because he decided on a war of choice with Iran
25:03
Speaker 1: without without a plan to end it, without a plan
25:07
Speaker 1: to finish the job. He went in thinking it was
25:10
Speaker 1: this is going to be Venezuela. But as much as
25:17
Speaker 1: it's easy to laugh at him over this, to say,
25:23
Speaker 1: like I mean, none of this is a shock to
25:26
Speaker 1: anybody that's of any serious intelligence following this, right, anybody
25:31
Speaker 1: that is knee deep in this story, anybody who's been
25:33
Speaker 1: covering Middle East politics for decades, anybody that's been covering
25:36
Speaker 1: this administration, none of this is a shock. But there's
25:41
Speaker 1: one thing he ought to be given credit for that
25:45
Speaker 1: he knew into fold because there is a worse version.
25:50
Speaker 1: There's a worse outcome here that was avoided, which is
25:56
Speaker 1: a sort of never ending hot war with the Iranians.
25:59
Speaker 1: That is isn't you know. It doesn't include ground troops,
26:02
Speaker 1: but it's this constant sort of trying to gain leverage,
26:08
Speaker 1: essentially keeping the world economy in paralysis. We really, we
26:13
Speaker 1: really have been at the brink of this energy crisis,
26:18
Speaker 1: absolutely hammering the global economy. We're still getting you know,
26:24
Speaker 1: it has still not been good for this economy. We're
26:26
Speaker 1: still going to get punished by this. It's still going
26:28
Speaker 1: to take weeks, if not months, for the Straight and
26:32
Speaker 1: Passageway to get back online in a consistent manner. Never
26:37
Speaker 1: mind all of the money that's going to get thrown
26:39
Speaker 1: at repairing all of the various entities that were damaged
26:42
Speaker 1: or destroyed during this six week cot war that was
26:48
Speaker 1: sort of I guess over a three and a half
26:49
Speaker 1: month if you throw in the lengthy seasfire there. So
26:56
Speaker 1: I do think that you can't. I mean, the worst
26:59
Speaker 1: case innary here would have been him just sort of
27:02
Speaker 1: muddling along, kind of keeping this going, wasting American munitions
27:09
Speaker 1: on a fruitless effort to somehow bomb the Iranians into submission,
27:15
Speaker 1: because that obviously was never going to happen. Now, I
27:20
Speaker 1: don't know whether you should get praise for being, you know,
27:24
Speaker 1: not doing the dumbest of the options that you only did,
27:27
Speaker 1: like the second dumbest option, which is start a half
27:29
Speaker 1: assed war in the first place. And apparently he wants
27:34
Speaker 1: credit for settling a tenth war here of some sort.
27:37
Speaker 1: I still don't understand where he got his other nine, right,
27:40
Speaker 1: He is not really this is this manufactured thing with him,
27:43
Speaker 1: And this actually transitions well into into sort of the
27:50
Speaker 1: other zeitgeisty story of the weekend, which is just sort
27:53
Speaker 1: of the president and his obsession with himself, right, and
27:56
Speaker 1: this celebration of himself, and this UFC five, this attempt
28:01
Speaker 1: to sort of make the rest of us celebrate his birthday.
28:06
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, ask yourself, what other American
28:09
Speaker 1: president has shoved the birthday down the country's throat like this,
28:14
Speaker 1: Like he is begging for his birthday to be a
28:16
Speaker 1: national holiday. I'm sure he'd love to see Flag Day
28:20
Speaker 1: moved and not beyond have to share that with his birthday,
28:25
Speaker 1: but he is desperate for recognition that will last be
28:28
Speaker 1: on the grave. Right, this is why he manufactured some
28:33
Speaker 1: sort of connection to the Kennedy Center and tried to
28:36
Speaker 1: stick his name on there. And in some ways, watching
28:39
Speaker 1: this entire Kennedy Center, these Kennedy Center follies play out,
28:50
Speaker 1: it really is in some ways a metaphor for his
28:53
Speaker 1: entire business career and really his entire existence right as
28:59
Speaker 1: a self promoter. You know, Donald Trump likes to call
29:04
Speaker 1: himself a builder. He built Trump Tower everything else, and
29:09
Speaker 1: you know, he got some apartment buildings built on the
29:11
Speaker 1: West side of of New York City. But for most
29:17
Speaker 1: of the twenty first century he's not been a builder.
29:20
Speaker 1: What he's been is a with golf courses. You could
29:24
Speaker 1: generously called him a rebuilder, or really more more of
29:30
Speaker 1: what he did with the he wants to take. It's
29:35
Speaker 1: like he takes other people's work and slaps his name
29:37
Speaker 1: on it. Right. You know, his after his bank, after
29:40
Speaker 1: bankrupting all those casinos, his casino business in the early nineties,
29:44
Speaker 1: he really stopped being in the builder's business and instead
29:47
Speaker 1: got into the licensing business. Right, And it's like licensing
29:51
Speaker 1: his name and then taking credit for it that somehow
29:54
Speaker 1: he was also involved with the build as well. And
29:58
Speaker 1: that's kind of I think the way he thought, Hey,
30:01
Speaker 1: the Kennedy Center. I'm the president now, so I can
30:03
Speaker 1: stick my name on stuff. I run things, I can
30:05
Speaker 1: control things. And of course he has this obsession with culture, right.
30:09
Speaker 1: He wants to decide what's what he wants to define
30:14
Speaker 1: popular culture, right, he wants to define it through what
30:18
Speaker 1: he believes. And so this is why he was He's
30:22
Speaker 1: so obsessed with the Kennedy Center, right. He thinks it's
30:25
Speaker 1: his way to put a stamp on American culture. And
30:30
Speaker 1: it's it's it's something he craves, right, and he craves
30:33
Speaker 1: this recognition. And so just like with him just sort
30:39
Speaker 1: of licensing his name to some other property and he
30:42
Speaker 1: slaps his name on it. The Darral golf Course in
30:45
Speaker 1: Miami is a great example of this, where you know,
30:49
Speaker 1: some people will buy a famous property and still keep
30:54
Speaker 1: the original name of said property. People with giant, big
30:58
Speaker 1: fat egos always have to put their name on it
31:02
Speaker 1: in front of it, which is what he did with
31:04
Speaker 1: Trump the route. But he's been trying to treat the
31:07
Speaker 1: federal government this way, right, And there's Kennedy Center. Then
31:09
Speaker 1: there's this obsession with how he's taken his birthday and
31:14
Speaker 1: try to make it this larger celebration. You know, last
31:17
Speaker 1: year it was the Army's birthday coinciding with his birthday
31:21
Speaker 1: that he wanted to essentially glom onto. And somehow, I think, somehow,
31:25
Speaker 1: in his own head, he's hoping that, you know, fifty
31:29
Speaker 1: years from now, people will think, oh, maybe the Army
31:33
Speaker 1: was birthed on that day on behalf of Donald Trump
31:37
Speaker 1: and some bizarre whitewashing of history of some sort and
31:43
Speaker 1: or rewriting of history books that he's dreaming of. But
31:51
Speaker 1: it is, it's this, and we know he's been super
31:54
Speaker 1: needy about all this, and it's like there's a part
31:56
Speaker 1: of me it's like, why are we bothering? But my god,
32:00
Speaker 1: a guy with a fragile ego has been running the
32:04
Speaker 1: Republican Party and has made the most of the Republican
32:08
Speaker 1: parties scared of their own shadows because they're afraid of it,
32:11
Speaker 1: afraid of making him upset, and like his fragile ego
32:17
Speaker 1: was on full display midnight the other night when the
32:21
Speaker 1: deadline hit to get where Judge said his name had
32:24
Speaker 1: to come off the Kennedy Center, and these poor workers
32:28
Speaker 1: had to come up with makeshift bedsheets in order to
32:32
Speaker 1: block the scaffolding so that people who wanted to celebrate
32:37
Speaker 1: the taking the name off the wall like it was,
32:39
Speaker 1: you know, the fall of a Saddam statue in Baghdad,
32:43
Speaker 1: that they couldn't memorialize it on video right, that they
32:46
Speaker 1: couldn't see it. And the fact that Trump so fears
32:52
Speaker 1: that that humiliation, I think only signifies sort of what
33:00
Speaker 1: kind of fragile state he's in right now. And he's
33:03
Speaker 1: probably been in this fragile state longer than we fully,
33:05
Speaker 1: all of us fully realize. But this whole, you know,
33:10
Speaker 1: this whole spectacle right of the UFC, And look, I'm
33:14
Speaker 1: of I'm not gonna I don't want to sit here
33:19
Speaker 1: and say we should treat everything in Washington like a
33:21
Speaker 1: faberge egg. Like I am genuinely thinking it's going to
33:25
Speaker 1: be fun to see the NFL draft on the National Mall.
33:29
Speaker 1: And I think if you've held this UFC fight on
33:31
Speaker 1: the National Mall rather than on the White House grounds,
33:35
Speaker 1: it might have felt slightly more, slightly less gross. But
33:43
Speaker 1: there's something about this on the South Lawn that just
33:47
Speaker 1: feels gross. And then you throw in the fact that
33:50
Speaker 1: Trump's personal companies are benefiting, They're profiteering off of this
33:56
Speaker 1: federal taxpayer dollars are being used to throw this little
33:59
Speaker 1: birthday party for the for his sort of turning the
34:03
Speaker 1: South Lawn to a Chuck e Cheese for him. And
34:08
Speaker 1: it's really appalling. And here's the thing, it's terrible politics.
34:14
Speaker 1: I mean, this thing is going over like a lead balloon. Look,
34:20
Speaker 1: genuine USC fans are going to be interested, at least
34:23
Speaker 1: in the one big title fight. And I get that.
34:25
Speaker 1: And they're gonna be interested in the fight, by the way,
34:27
Speaker 1: they're gonna be really pissed if it gets if if
34:30
Speaker 1: weather gets in the way too much. By ither mean
34:33
Speaker 1: interest in the fight, and then it's gonna go away.
34:37
Speaker 1: And and I don't think it's you know, it's it's
34:40
Speaker 1: not gonna have the net positive that he thinks it's
34:42
Speaker 1: gonna have. And I don't think like somehow USC fans
34:46
Speaker 1: are going to say, oh wow, this was this was amazing.
34:49
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna give up my support for Donald Trump
34:52
Speaker 1: ever again. And I'm gonna remember this at the midterms.
34:55
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe this will be great politics
34:58
Speaker 1: for him, but I don't see it. This looks like
35:01
Speaker 1: terrible politics. And you know, coupled with what happened with
35:08
Speaker 1: the Kennedy Center over the weekend and then this sort
35:10
Speaker 1: of like I mean, he is the person that had
35:14
Speaker 1: to throw his own birthday party because nobody else would have.
35:19
Speaker 1: And because he's got the presidency and he's got the
35:21
Speaker 1: power of the federal government, plenty of people will cooperate
35:25
Speaker 1: or do transactions with him because they think there's money
35:28
Speaker 1: or fame to be made, and so that's how it happens.
35:34
Speaker 1: But I promise you the second he's away from the
35:36
Speaker 1: White House, a lot of these people that have been
35:39
Speaker 1: doing business with him, they're not gonna run away. They're
35:42
Speaker 1: not gonna walk away. They're gonna run away, and they're
35:45
Speaker 1: gonna do their best ever to have to do business
35:46
Speaker 1: with him again. All right, Coming up my conversation with
35:53
Speaker 1: Daniel o'legray, Like I said, it's, Uh, if you're I'm
36:00
Speaker 1: really curious about where's the Latino vote in this country, headed,
36:03
Speaker 1: I think it's I think if you if you're looking
36:06
Speaker 1: at the Latino vote as monolithic, you're making a mistake.
36:10
Speaker 1: And if you're looking at it as a vote that
36:12
Speaker 1: is somehow captured by one party or the other. You're
36:15
Speaker 1: making a mistake. These are as swing of swing voters
36:20
Speaker 1: as there exists, and as we learned this last week
36:22
Speaker 1: when I gave you that full deep dive on the
36:24
Speaker 1: typology report from PW. Right, the most diverse voting groups
36:28
Speaker 1: in America are the ones that are closer to the
36:31
Speaker 1: middle of our ideological spectrum in this country. And the
36:36
Speaker 1: least diverse groups in America are the ones that are
36:40
Speaker 1: the furthest to the left and the right. Those are
36:42
Speaker 1: the least diverse, the most white. So America's swing voters
36:48
Speaker 1: are bilingual. And that's a conversation you're gonna, I think
36:51
Speaker 1: enjoy with my friend daniel A Legraight. This episode of
36:59
Speaker 1: the Chuck Podcasting is brought to you by FanDuel. The
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Speaker 1: you're gonna jump on a bandwagon, And yeah, I'm jumping
37:37
Speaker 1: on the obvious bandwagon. It's Team USA for me, and
37:43
Speaker 1: I enjoyed what four to one. Look, some of US
37:47
Speaker 1: snarky sports fans would sometimes like to complain, oh, there's
37:50
Speaker 1: not enough scoring in soccer. Well, man, the first half
37:53
Speaker 1: of that match against Paraguay, there's a lot of scoring.
37:57
Speaker 1: Three that counted, one that did it. And look, I'm
38:05
Speaker 1: gonna be honest, it's they're raising the bar. They're raising
38:07
Speaker 1: expectations for me. So Australia beat Turkey two to nothing,
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Speaker 1: US beat Paraguay four to one. Now Australia and the
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Speaker 1: US meet this Friday, and there's look, there's only one
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Speaker 1: way I'm going to bet. It's gonna be on you,
38:22
Speaker 1: on Team USA. And the best part, by the way
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38:41
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39:57
Speaker 1: seven in Louisiana. In our increasingly fragmented world, I think
40:06
Speaker 1: we of important demographic groups that impact American politics get
40:11
Speaker 1: their information differently than everybody else, Right we all are
40:16
Speaker 1: you put ten people in a room, and I promise
40:18
Speaker 1: you eight of them have more different viewing habits than
40:22
Speaker 1: they do the same. If you've done that thirty years ago,
40:25
Speaker 1: you probably would have gotten the opposite result. So why
40:28
Speaker 1: am I starting a wind up that way? Well, my
40:33
Speaker 1: guest today is the CEO of tel Avisa Univision, and
40:37
Speaker 1: that is for some of you, you may go, wait
40:39
Speaker 1: a minute, isn't that two separate companies used to be
40:43
Speaker 1: Univision owned basically the largest Spanish language media company in
40:48
Speaker 1: the United States. Tel Avisa has been the largest in Mexico.
40:52
Speaker 1: They've always had a sort of an operating relationship, but
40:55
Speaker 1: this is a full fledged merged media company now. And
41:00
Speaker 1: the CEO joins me, Daniel Allegra, to talk a little
41:04
Speaker 1: bit about everything, but most importantly the Latino vote in
41:07
Speaker 1: the United States, and certainly coming at it from a
41:11
Speaker 1: perspective of a media company who's trying to build audience themselves,
41:15
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot to be learned about understanding
41:18
Speaker 1: the topics, the interests, the issues that are moving Latino voters.
41:21
Speaker 1: And never mind the fact that there's a terrific news
41:23
Speaker 1: division also behind tel Avisa and UNIVERSITIYO and Daniel joins me. Now, Daniel,
41:28
Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast.
41:30
Speaker 2: Hey, it's a pleasure to be with you, and it's
41:33
Speaker 2: also an incredible honor to be able to represent the
41:36
Speaker 2: voice of Hispanics in the US. I know there's a
41:38
Speaker 2: lot we want to cover.
41:39
Speaker 1: Well, look, I am you know it's interesting. I grew
41:42
Speaker 1: up in Miami, and so which is Savannah Duthrie who
41:47
Speaker 1: grew up in Tucson. We used to say, so we
41:48
Speaker 1: both speak border Spanish, and I say, well, we called
41:51
Speaker 1: it Spanglish in Miami. You can call it border Spanish.
41:55
Speaker 1: But the point being is that I think we both
41:57
Speaker 1: sort of at least under you know, we grew up
42:00
Speaker 1: next to Latino culture and we were infused more with
42:02
Speaker 1: it than we fully realized until you grow up and
42:04
Speaker 1: you move from the area, and then you realize, oh,
42:07
Speaker 1: you know how much different cultures you know, are a
42:11
Speaker 1: part of your childhood and become mainstream. Give me this.
42:16
Speaker 1: This is a fairly new merger. When I say fairly
42:18
Speaker 1: new in the last three or four years, Explain where
42:22
Speaker 1: this is going, because I'll tell you I had a
42:24
Speaker 1: there used to be a I had a stereotypes of
42:26
Speaker 1: wrong work. But the quick distinction between Telemundo and Univision.
42:29
Speaker 1: Back in the years, if you were to talk to
42:31
Speaker 1: somebody Univision, they'd say, well, Telemundo is the channel for Cubans.
42:35
Speaker 1: If you talk to Telemundo they say, no, no, we're you know,
42:37
Speaker 1: we're a bit more English language focus, Univision a little
42:40
Speaker 1: more Spanish language focused. So there used to be this
42:43
Speaker 1: sort of And obviously I worked on the Telemundo side
42:46
Speaker 1: of things, so I'd hear the different marketing pitches of both,
42:50
Speaker 1: but there definitely was a distinction. Telemundo was a bit
42:52
Speaker 1: more focused on the Hemisphere politics, less so on Mexico.
42:56
Speaker 1: Univision attle bit more focused on Mexican Americans and in
43:00
Speaker 1: Mexican politics. I'm gathering that's changing and changed over the
43:05
Speaker 1: last few years. I know Telemundo's made this effort, and
43:08
Speaker 1: I know Univision's made this effort. So Daniel walk me
43:10
Speaker 1: through that merger with tel Avisa.
43:13
Speaker 2: Sure, the merger merger happened about four years ago, and
43:19
Speaker 2: it just made all the strategic sets. Univision being the
43:23
Speaker 2: largest the Spanish media company in the United States, de
43:27
Speaker 2: levis obviously also number one in Mexico. We saw two things.
43:33
Speaker 1: One is.
43:35
Speaker 2: Our content factory that we have in Mexico, which is
43:39
Speaker 2: some phenomenal studios that we have down in Mexico create
43:46
Speaker 2: content for both Mexico and the United States. And if
43:50
Speaker 2: you just look at the factor the studios that we
43:53
Speaker 2: have in Mexico, they parallel any of the large studios
43:57
Speaker 2: you know, Warner Brothers Universal here in the United States.
44:01
Speaker 2: And what was important was just how much the Hispanic
44:05
Speaker 2: audience was growing in the United States. So the merger
44:09
Speaker 2: was more than just a merger of two companies, It
44:12
Speaker 2: was a cultural combination of the two so that we
44:15
Speaker 2: could make sure that the content that's created in those
44:18
Speaker 2: studios reflect also what the audiences in the United States
44:23
Speaker 2: need and want. And to your point, we were known
44:27
Speaker 2: as the network that catered mostly to Mexicans because so
44:32
Speaker 2: much of the content was made in Mexico for Mexico
44:34
Speaker 2: and then was licensed to Univision. And now what we
44:38
Speaker 2: do is this is my number one priorities, make sure
44:42
Speaker 2: that the content that we create really resonates with all
44:45
Speaker 2: Hispanics in the United States, Cubans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans and
44:49
Speaker 2: obviously Mexicans as well.
44:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, did Televisa have a news division.
44:56
Speaker 2: It does, actually has a very various own as news
45:01
Speaker 2: division in Mexico, eighty years of history behind it, and
45:07
Speaker 2: we also have the news division here in the United
45:09
Speaker 2: States with Univision. The national is based out of Miami,
45:15
Speaker 2: but everywhere around the country we have local local TV
45:19
Speaker 2: that caters to the local markets.
45:22
Speaker 1: Telemundo made a move into doing both English and Spanish
45:26
Speaker 1: has Univision. Where is your head on that?
45:31
Speaker 2: You know, we've uh, we've given it a fair amount
45:34
Speaker 2: of thought about it, and what we've seen is you, uh,
45:39
Speaker 2: that doesn't really work if you really are trying to
45:43
Speaker 2: target the Hispanic audience, you know.
45:46
Speaker 1: Now, I asked this as a kid. I grew up
45:48
Speaker 1: with Capasa Usa, which was you know, I.
45:51
Speaker 2: Use that that example and over again because I did
45:54
Speaker 2: as well.
45:55
Speaker 1: Right, and it was Look, it was such a I mean,
45:58
Speaker 1: we were the perfect gringo family to be watching k
46:00
Speaker 1: pos USA in Miami. My mother was bilingual, had basically
46:04
Speaker 1: conducted business always in Spanish in Miami. My father was
46:08
Speaker 1: sort of probably one of the voters who voted for
46:11
Speaker 1: English only back in the day, So it was and
46:15
Speaker 1: you know the wonderful generational stereotypes that show would would
46:19
Speaker 1: would expose and really sort of helped my entire family
46:23
Speaker 1: get more comfortable in this cross cultural community and probably
46:27
Speaker 1: did the same for many many Cuban families as well.
46:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it did. I remember watching it, but I
46:36
Speaker 2: and by the way.
46:37
Speaker 1: I brought it up because it was regularly in English.
46:39
Speaker 1: Grandparents never spoke English, the kids never spoke Spanish, and
46:43
Speaker 1: the parents spoke so you you, everybody sort of easily
46:48
Speaker 1: could follow along better than you realize, even if you
46:51
Speaker 1: only spoke Spanish or only spoke English.
46:53
Speaker 2: That's right, and what and oftentimes which what happens in
46:58
Speaker 2: Hispanic households halfway through a sentence, you switch languages, or
47:02
Speaker 2: you sprinkle English and Spanish into these Those those exercises
47:07
Speaker 2: and those tests fundamentally didn't work. And it's it's become
47:14
Speaker 2: even more so now because Hispanics, when they want to
47:20
Speaker 2: uh connect with their content in their own language, they
47:26
Speaker 2: just want to stick to Spanish, and if they want
47:27
Speaker 2: to switch to English, they're going to go to a
47:30
Speaker 2: full English English language. When you start mixing the two first,
47:34
Speaker 2: it's very hard to get the cultural nuances right, because
47:38
Speaker 2: you know, Spanglish and for Puerto Ricans is different from
47:41
Speaker 2: Spanish for Dominicans, which.
47:44
Speaker 1: And that's why border Spanish was different than the Spanish.
47:46
Speaker 1: I please, my mother, who learned cotillion Spanish, excuse me Spanish,
47:53
Speaker 1: would say, oh, the Cuban Spanish is grammatically different. You're
47:58
Speaker 1: being taught Cuban Spanish. You should be being this bay
48:01
Speaker 1: like anything, right, It's like deciding should you be taught
48:03
Speaker 1: English in Oxford or in the United States.
48:08
Speaker 2: But I'll tell you. I'll tell you one thing that
48:09
Speaker 2: we are working working on is we have the fastest
48:14
Speaker 2: growing streaming service in the United States called vix.
48:19
Speaker 1: It is our.
48:19
Speaker 2: Spanish language streaming service. When I say the fastest, I
48:22
Speaker 2: don't mean the fastest Spanish language. It's the fastest in
48:27
Speaker 2: the United States English, whatever language it is. And it's
48:30
Speaker 2: because one we launched it three and a half years ago,
48:34
Speaker 2: was already profitable within the first well actually within less
48:39
Speaker 2: than three years, which is unheard of in the media
48:42
Speaker 2: media space. And it's because we have this very tailored
48:46
Speaker 2: and incredible content, not only new and fresh, but also
48:51
Speaker 2: seventy years of Univision, eighty years of Dena Visa content,
48:54
Speaker 2: that is, and that is on there. But what we're
48:56
Speaker 2: also now starting to test is with the advent of technology,
49:01
Speaker 2: how you do ai translation so that you can actually
49:05
Speaker 2: not only do a accent change, so you can have
49:08
Speaker 2: something that maybe may have been recorded in Cuban Spanish
49:12
Speaker 2: and then you can hear it in Mexican Spanish, more
49:15
Speaker 2: in Colombia Spanish, but also the translation so that you
49:19
Speaker 2: can do it in any language. And the technology is
49:22
Speaker 2: not totally there yet. It's getting there, but it's pretty close.
49:26
Speaker 2: It's not only a translation, but the actual mouth it
49:31
Speaker 2: changes a little bit, so it actually feels like it
49:33
Speaker 2: originally from that language.
49:34
Speaker 1: Missus Todd and I disagree sometimes about dubbing. I've liked
49:41
Speaker 1: it more than I thought I would, and she hates
49:43
Speaker 1: it more than she thought she would like. We both
49:45
Speaker 1: and some Netflix is dabbled in this a little bit.
49:48
Speaker 1: But I imagine that technology is only going to get
49:50
Speaker 1: better all the time.
49:51
Speaker 2: It's only going to get back. Well, look, I grew
49:53
Speaker 2: up the first first third, am, Where did you grow up? Well,
49:57
Speaker 2: first third of my life in Mexico City. I come
50:00
Speaker 2: from a Mexican Mexican family, and then I went to
50:03
Speaker 2: UH to high school actually in Canada and then college
50:06
Speaker 2: and grad school here in the United States.
50:08
Speaker 1: You are a full fledged North American. I am that
50:12
Speaker 1: you are after.
50:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, growing up in Mexico when we
50:18
Speaker 2: watch American TV shows, I learned a lot of my
50:23
Speaker 2: English through through the American TV shows. But when they
50:26
Speaker 2: were translated, Charlton Heston, Plane Out of the Apes, Fred Flintstone,
50:33
Speaker 2: and George Jensen were the same voice in Spanish, like
50:37
Speaker 2: they always had the same actor who was always doing
50:39
Speaker 2: so can you can imagine like all the way from
50:41
Speaker 2: Charlton Heston to Fred Flintstone, who was always the same
50:43
Speaker 2: guy and the same thing with uh Betty and whoever
50:48
Speaker 2: the girlfriend of Charlton Heston wasn't Planet of the Apes.
50:51
Speaker 2: There's always the same, the same voices. But now with technology,
50:54
Speaker 2: it's gotten to such a point where you actually can't
50:57
Speaker 2: really tell. Like you can still kind of tell, but
51:00
Speaker 2: I'd say we're probably within a year or so of
51:04
Speaker 2: being able to have a level of translation. I think
51:06
Speaker 2: even your wife is going to go, oh, that's actually
51:07
Speaker 2: pretty good.
51:09
Speaker 1: Well that's kind of look. I think we're you know,
51:10
Speaker 1: it's it's I mean, I I you know, will the
51:15
Speaker 1: world learn to speak a common language, or will simply
51:19
Speaker 1: have the technology that you never have to learn another language.
51:22
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure which where we're going, but we're
51:25
Speaker 1: headed into it. We're headed somewhere in that world, either
51:29
Speaker 1: common language or sort of universal instant translation that will
51:34
Speaker 1: make the need for a second language less. And I
51:39
Speaker 1: don't know whether. And there's a part of me, you know,
51:42
Speaker 1: sometimes when when things change, you can't get your head
51:45
Speaker 1: around it. And I can't fully get my head around
51:47
Speaker 1: the idea that I do think language and geography and
51:50
Speaker 1: culture is so personal and meaningful that I don't think language.
51:54
Speaker 1: But we've seen languages go away before, And I just
51:56
Speaker 1: wonder where we're headed here now that we can instantly
51:59
Speaker 1: communicate with anybody who speaks any language in any moment
52:02
Speaker 1: in time, And does that eradicate language or does that
52:06
Speaker 1: celebrate more languages? I'm not quite sure. Honestly.
52:09
Speaker 2: My view on this is I said up, I set
52:13
Speaker 2: up Mexican. My ancestry is from the Basque region in Spain,
52:18
Speaker 2: the same thing as my wife. And during the Franco
52:22
Speaker 2: regime in Spain, he tried to obliterate any of the
52:26
Speaker 2: local local languages or local dialects, including Basque and you know,
52:30
Speaker 2: it's all about Castilian Spanish. Castilian Spanish, and what you're
52:34
Speaker 2: seeing now in the Basque region, you're seeing it actually
52:38
Speaker 2: where my parents live in the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico.
52:42
Speaker 2: Is this resurgence of the Basque language, that the kids
52:46
Speaker 2: wanting to learn the Basque language in the Yucatan, the
52:50
Speaker 2: Mayans holding so so firm about speaking their own may language.
52:55
Speaker 2: So even though you're getting an internationalization of communication and connection,
53:00
Speaker 2: but at the core, people still want to connect with
53:02
Speaker 2: their own own local community. And I'll give you a
53:06
Speaker 2: real time example. Well, we've been on this, uh this
53:10
Speaker 2: this podcast. I received a text notification on the right
53:17
Speaker 2: hand side of a campaign in California and it says
53:21
Speaker 2: I am running for some for this position that literally
53:25
Speaker 2: just it just it just popped up and said this
53:27
Speaker 2: is so important to me. I want you to participate
53:30
Speaker 2: with me. And I looked at that. You know, obviously,
53:33
Speaker 2: I think.
53:34
Speaker 1: We're taping the day before the California primary. We're day
53:38
Speaker 1: before the.
53:38
Speaker 2: California So I see that and the first thing I
53:41
Speaker 2: think of is, Wow, I just got a mass communication
53:46
Speaker 2: that fundamentally does not understand me. Now I'm sure, there's
53:51
Speaker 2: parts in that message that may be relevant to me.
53:54
Speaker 2: But if that text had been about specific issues that
53:58
Speaker 2: mattered to me, and more importantly in Spanish, even though
54:01
Speaker 2: as you can tell them, I'm perfectly fluent in English,
54:05
Speaker 2: I'd pay more attend to say, oh, I actually think
54:07
Speaker 2: this person is really trying to connect with me, versus
54:09
Speaker 2: just a broad message that hopes, you know, with a
54:13
Speaker 2: wide net to be able to capture everybody.
54:16
Speaker 1: Well, this is a good way to sort of transition
54:18
Speaker 1: to the politics of the quote unquote Latino vote, which
54:22
Speaker 1: to me is like trying to say, understand the politics
54:25
Speaker 1: of the white vote in America. Meaning nobody in their
54:30
Speaker 1: right mind would say, oh, there's one white vote. Right,
54:33
Speaker 1: there's differences by geography, differences by gender, differences, by income differences.
54:38
Speaker 1: But the fact that it has taken political consultants and
54:42
Speaker 1: essentially seventy years right when I maybe we can go
54:47
Speaker 1: back seventy years when you had actual, just specific messaging
54:51
Speaker 1: for Latino voters in an American campaign. I'm probably being generous,
54:55
Speaker 1: but let's say it was in the sixties and seventies
54:58
Speaker 1: were probably the first time that you saw by that,
55:01
Speaker 1: and it's taken this long to sort of accept the
55:03
Speaker 1: premise that, hey, guess what, a Latino voter in New
55:06
Speaker 1: York is different than Latino voter in Florida, which is
55:08
Speaker 1: different than a Latino voter at the border of Texas,
55:11
Speaker 1: which is different than a Latino voter in Houston, which
55:13
Speaker 1: is different than the Latino voter in La YadA, YadA,
55:15
Speaker 1: YadA in the Central Valley and all this stuff, or
55:18
Speaker 1: never mind the seventh generation Mexican that lives in New
55:22
Speaker 1: Mexico and has never moved the country's borders have moved,
55:24
Speaker 1: but they didn't. And it's I do feel like, finally
55:31
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, after it took Democrats sort of
55:35
Speaker 1: probably getting drubbed in the border towns in South Texas
55:39
Speaker 1: for them to realize this, it's like, oh, you have
55:42
Speaker 1: to diversify your Latino pitch. It's not a Latino vote,
55:46
Speaker 1: it's Latino's votes, right, It's multiple demographic groups. So walk
55:52
Speaker 1: me through the various what you think are like if
55:55
Speaker 1: the concentrated, segmented things, and how much you know, I've
56:01
Speaker 1: got a political call this says, hey, it's no different
56:04
Speaker 1: than the so called white vote, meaning there's working class
56:08
Speaker 1: Latinos who have one set of issues. There's affluent Latinos
56:12
Speaker 1: who may share the same issues as affluent white voters,
56:15
Speaker 1: and affluent you know that, and you know so, I
56:18
Speaker 1: guess that's where I want to begin, is walk me through,
56:21
Speaker 1: you know, break up the Latino vote for me in
56:23
Speaker 1: the United States.
56:24
Speaker 2: So it's a great question. I would actually take one
56:29
Speaker 2: step further back because I actually think what you just
56:33
Speaker 2: said is so much more sophisticated than where many of
56:38
Speaker 2: the campaigns are about thinking about the Hispanics.
56:52
Speaker 1: They may intellectually have gotten there, but they're not tactically
56:55
Speaker 1: there yet.
56:55
Speaker 2: Right well, no, not even that, they're not even there
57:00
Speaker 2: about connecting with Hispanics. Forget about what kind of Hispanics.
57:07
Speaker 2: So I became CEO of this company two months before
57:11
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty four presidential elections, and our data was
57:16
Speaker 2: crystal clear. Number one, it said that the Hispanic vote
57:21
Speaker 2: is no longer a Democratic vote. It was aig predominantly
57:24
Speaker 2: Democratic vote. It had become an issues vote. Number two,
57:29
Speaker 2: that Hispanics the issues about the economy were number one
57:34
Speaker 2: and number two. Border, to your point, is very complicated,
57:40
Speaker 2: but that was the number three issue. Some were for
57:43
Speaker 2: stricter controls some were continuing a much more like.
57:47
Speaker 1: The population as a whole. Some are for some are
57:49
Speaker 1: you know, like this is right? I mean to me
57:52
Speaker 1: in some ways this is assimilation in that yes.
57:56
Speaker 2: But what I say that the more fundamental piece was
58:02
Speaker 2: when we sat down with both campaigns and I said,
58:07
Speaker 2: out with both campaigns and I asked them, right, what
58:09
Speaker 2: are the key messages that you want to address for
58:12
Speaker 2: the Hispanic vote said, oh, we've got it covered. One
58:16
Speaker 2: sent it more than the other. We've got it covered.
58:20
Speaker 2: We know that we can reach Hispanics through our mass communication,
58:24
Speaker 2: and that mass communication is about abortion, it's about totalitarianism,
58:33
Speaker 2: it's about a border. And by communicating in English to
58:41
Speaker 2: all these these the masses, we know that Hispanics also
58:46
Speaker 2: watch English language television or English language streaming and as
58:50
Speaker 2: we'll be able to hit them with that. That was
58:54
Speaker 2: fundamentally flawed first in terms of understanding what the what
58:58
Speaker 2: the what the community cared about. Now, abortion is an
59:02
Speaker 2: incredibly important issue, you know, uh, democracy is an incredibly
59:07
Speaker 2: important issue, but if you were listening to what mattered
59:11
Speaker 2: to the Hispanics and the Hispanic the Hispanics are most
59:16
Speaker 2: impacted because of their social economic status by the economy.
59:21
Speaker 2: You know, when gasoline prices go up, you know, it
59:25
Speaker 2: takes a bigger chunk out of their their wages. When
59:29
Speaker 2: when when you have border enforcement by the McDonald's and
59:34
Speaker 2: the home depots and the and the Lows, well, the
59:38
Speaker 2: foot traffic stops going in these Hispanic neighborhoods, and then
59:41
Speaker 2: as a result, you end up cutting back on spend
59:44
Speaker 2: on McDonald's and Lows, and then it impacts the people
59:47
Speaker 2: who are who are hired there who tend to be Hispanics.
59:50
Speaker 2: So all these all these issues were very closely intertwined,
59:55
Speaker 2: but one campaign more than the other. It's obviously I
59:58
Speaker 2: think which one which one? Number three too just did
1:00:02
Speaker 2: not understand that you needed to address the Hispanics in
1:00:06
Speaker 2: their language and in the issues that matter.
1:00:08
Speaker 1: So this was a question. You know, it's very interesting.
1:00:10
Speaker 1: I could tell you something I've learned from polling over
1:00:12
Speaker 1: the years on the Latino polm Yes is that if
1:00:17
Speaker 1: you essentially that if you don't have a Spanish speaking
1:00:23
Speaker 1: poll taker, you're just not going to have a reliable sample.
1:00:27
Speaker 1: You know that the English language Latino respondents are just
1:00:32
Speaker 1: they're just a different demographic group than the ones that
1:00:36
Speaker 1: are less comfortable responding in English, and they sort of
1:00:39
Speaker 1: have slightly different concerns and sometimes you don't get you
1:00:44
Speaker 1: also you can get the language barrier meaning and this
1:00:49
Speaker 1: is true of first and second generation Americans. A lot
1:00:51
Speaker 1: of times they want to give what they think is
1:00:53
Speaker 1: the correct answer rather than what they're actually thinking because
1:00:57
Speaker 1: maybe they didn't fully understand because the question and being
1:01:00
Speaker 1: asked in their second language, not their first.
1:01:03
Speaker 2: That is a that is a various student observation. I'd
1:01:07
Speaker 2: say it depends on the polster and how they also
1:01:10
Speaker 2: position the question. You don't necessarily need for them to
1:01:13
Speaker 2: be Spanish speakers, but they need to be well advised
1:01:16
Speaker 2: by people who.
1:01:17
Speaker 1: Understand this, need to have the opportunity to, like, if
1:01:19
Speaker 1: somebody prefers, what's your preferred language? You know, to be
1:01:23
Speaker 1: interviewed for this poll in you've got to be able
1:01:25
Speaker 1: to do both. And if you're a polster that doesn't
1:01:27
Speaker 1: do both, you're going you're not going to get a
1:01:29
Speaker 1: reliable reading on the Latino vote. Now.
1:01:32
Speaker 2: But what but my point, my point when I say
1:01:35
Speaker 2: is taking the step back is literally for the campaigns
1:01:38
Speaker 2: to understand that you need to communicate to the Spanics differently,
1:01:42
Speaker 2: that you need to communicate to the broader population, and
1:01:44
Speaker 2: if you show up to the Spanics in their own language,
1:01:50
Speaker 2: it goes so far, and our data shows it so
1:01:53
Speaker 2: right now.
1:01:53
Speaker 1: So what matters more? Though, let me ask you this
1:01:57
Speaker 1: talking them? So, for instance, the issues for all voters
1:02:01
Speaker 1: and Latino voters were basically the same this year or
1:02:03
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four. The economy in the border, yes,
1:02:06
Speaker 1: order was the top five issue overall, right, as was
1:02:10
Speaker 1: the economy. So you could argue that, you know, and
1:02:13
Speaker 1: that's probably why Trump had the advantage here, simply because
1:02:17
Speaker 1: the message he was running on also happened to be
1:02:19
Speaker 1: the same message that would work with Latino voters. And
1:02:22
Speaker 1: then they made a slightly better effort to try to
1:02:24
Speaker 1: talk to them in their in their preferred places to
1:02:28
Speaker 1: communicate versus maybe maybe not versus the Democratic lamp pattern
1:02:34
Speaker 1: significantly right, Well, the Democratic campaign is saddled with interest
1:02:37
Speaker 1: groups who believe they speak for Latinos who don't necessarily,
1:02:42
Speaker 1: who only speak for a faction of Latinos, you know that,
1:02:46
Speaker 1: and they mislead the Democratic consultants into incorrect ways to
1:02:49
Speaker 1: targeting Latino voters. It's been my experience, but.
1:02:54
Speaker 2: I hate to bring this back, it's actually not how
1:02:57
Speaker 2: they were communicating to the Hispanic voters. It's how they
1:03:01
Speaker 2: were communicating broadly, assuming they were capturing Thosepanic voters. So
1:03:06
Speaker 2: one thing, one thing is is to communicate broadly. The
1:03:09
Speaker 2: other one is to communicate to Hispanics and not understand what.
1:03:11
Speaker 1: Hispanics care about.
1:03:12
Speaker 2: Now what I've seen now in in the data that
1:03:18
Speaker 2: we're seeing, and also just in the last few elections,
1:03:23
Speaker 2: Cheryl In against Chitterarelli in New Jersey, Tall Rico against
1:03:27
Speaker 2: Crockett in in Texas, Ted Cruz against all Red when
1:03:32
Speaker 2: he when he had his campaign reelection. All three are
1:03:38
Speaker 2: very very good test points that.
1:03:41
Speaker 1: If you.
1:03:44
Speaker 2: Identify the issues that matter to the Panics in your community,
1:03:48
Speaker 2: New Jersey was something a little bit different than what
1:03:50
Speaker 2: what was for going in Texas, and you weigh in
1:03:54
Speaker 2: on the Spanish language platforms. Tall Rico, for instance, did
1:03:58
Speaker 2: uh soccer, which obviously Hispanics love their soccer. Did showed
1:04:03
Speaker 2: up on our on our radio, and showed up on
1:04:05
Speaker 2: our music programs, and he outspent Crockett by a factor
1:04:10
Speaker 2: of eight to one. And lo and behold, the Hispanic
1:04:13
Speaker 2: vote was about one.
1:04:15
Speaker 1: It wasn't even it was clear, you know, she had
1:04:17
Speaker 1: a financial constraints. It's I think that she didn't.
1:04:23
Speaker 2: Even again targeted the return on investment on on targeting
1:04:27
Speaker 2: on the Hispanic So uh, Cheryl and Chetarelly, same thing.
1:04:31
Speaker 2: She was nine to one on Cheaterarelly lo and Behold,
1:04:34
Speaker 2: same thing, haven't Ted Cruz? Ted Cruz had never won
1:04:38
Speaker 2: the Hispanic vote until he had that very contested, contested
1:04:43
Speaker 2: camp uh uh campaign against all Red. And then he
1:04:48
Speaker 2: pivoted and he said, I'm gonna I'm going to show
1:04:50
Speaker 2: up two interviews on radio, on TV. I'm going to
1:04:54
Speaker 2: advertise with it and the loan. Behold uh that that happened.
1:04:59
Speaker 2: It's playing itself out out in California right now. It's
1:05:01
Speaker 2: playing itself out in Los Angeles. Los Angeles, forty of
1:05:06
Speaker 2: the electorate is Hispanic.
1:05:08
Speaker 1: I can't believe none of the top three candidates right
1:05:10
Speaker 1: now in that race or Latino.
1:05:14
Speaker 2: But I will say two of the three are leading
1:05:17
Speaker 2: in very heavily into It's LA forgotake, you know, yeah,
1:05:22
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's here's arguably the swing vote in
1:05:26
Speaker 2: the LA marriage race. Well arguably the swing vote not
1:05:30
Speaker 2: only in LA. And this is the data that we
1:05:32
Speaker 2: published a couple of weeks ago along with the Harris
1:05:37
Speaker 2: Polling Company, is that despite what you might read in
1:05:41
Speaker 2: the media that you know, lack of popularity of the Democrats,
1:05:47
Speaker 2: are lack of popularity of the Republicans and what Trump
1:05:50
Speaker 2: is doing, et cetera. And he's lost the Hispanic vote.
1:05:53
Speaker 2: Fifty six percent of Hispanics that we pulled said they're
1:05:59
Speaker 2: on this at it. Yeah, that's over half. Over half
1:06:04
Speaker 2: of them are undecided, So that vote is still up
1:06:07
Speaker 2: for grabs.
1:06:09
Speaker 1: And that tells me. When you see an undecided number
1:06:12
Speaker 1: that big, that tells me campaigns haven't even.
1:06:15
Speaker 2: Tried or they think they think they're reaching them, and
1:06:21
Speaker 2: they're reaching them in the absolute wrong way.
1:06:24
Speaker 1: You know, well you have you have an undecided about
1:06:27
Speaker 1: that big. That's been a bunch of people aren't hearing
1:06:30
Speaker 1: any of your messages. So whatever message you think are penetrating, aren't.
1:06:34
Speaker 2: You know, I don't I don't know how bilingual your
1:06:39
Speaker 2: home may or may not have been, you know, growing
1:06:41
Speaker 2: up in Florida, but when you're when you're in a
1:06:46
Speaker 2: if you're in a bilingual home like I was, when
1:06:51
Speaker 2: your parents switched to Spanish, something serious happened, Like you
1:06:57
Speaker 2: paid attention. Interesting and the same thing happened is here.
1:07:00
Speaker 2: You know, when when you're hearing this message of I
1:07:04
Speaker 2: endorse this message, and this message is a broad based message.
1:07:09
Speaker 2: They oh, okay, goes in one year, goes other. But
1:07:11
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, if you hear it in your
1:07:13
Speaker 2: own language, then you go, oh wait, what what are
1:07:16
Speaker 2: they saying? And you know it's actually reflective of how
1:07:19
Speaker 2: how Ispanics communicate.
1:07:22
Speaker 1: Let me go through a few different ways to look
1:07:25
Speaker 1: at the Latino vote first and second generation versus third
1:07:31
Speaker 1: and fourth and beyond. Yes, is there significant differences? Now? Yes,
1:07:37
Speaker 1: it depends on explain them to me. Yeah, it depends
1:07:39
Speaker 1: on where so what.
1:07:44
Speaker 2: Miami is an interesting microcosm because you can have a first,
1:07:50
Speaker 2: second and third generation Hispanic in Miami who doesn't speak
1:07:54
Speaker 2: English or speak very very poor English and feel very
1:07:58
Speaker 2: comfortable only with Spanish. You can get buy in Miami
1:08:01
Speaker 2: without speaking a word of English. And it's becoming actually
1:08:03
Speaker 2: even more and more and more of the case. That
1:08:06
Speaker 2: used to be the aberration like Miami was that one
1:08:10
Speaker 2: Cuban microcosm that then attracted Venezuela, It's et cetera, and
1:08:13
Speaker 2: then it became just uh, you know, essentially a Spanish
1:08:17
Speaker 2: speaking uh city.
1:08:21
Speaker 1: For the most part. Obviously there's there are.
1:08:23
Speaker 2: Strong pockets of English, but you can really get along
1:08:26
Speaker 2: without without speaking the language.
1:08:28
Speaker 1: It's harder, it's harder to be an English only speaker
1:08:31
Speaker 1: in Miami and get around than it is to be
1:08:33
Speaker 1: a Spanish only speaker.
1:08:34
Speaker 2: Exactly. That's right the best, that's exactly exactly the case.
1:08:38
Speaker 2: Now if you look at demographically, what used to happen
1:08:43
Speaker 2: is when a Hispanic immigrant would come to United States
1:08:47
Speaker 2: and they would be into predominantly English speaking environment. The
1:08:51
Speaker 2: first thing they did is kids, I want you to
1:08:55
Speaker 2: learn English. I want you to assimilate. I want you
1:08:57
Speaker 2: to fit in. I don't want you to be differentiated.
1:09:00
Speaker 2: But now that you have one in five and getting
1:09:04
Speaker 2: very close to one in four Americans are Hispanic, the
1:09:08
Speaker 2: Miami example is starting to happen much much more in
1:09:12
Speaker 2: many cities, in Los Angeles and San Diego, in Chicago,
1:09:18
Speaker 2: in Dallas where I live, in Houston, where people are
1:09:22
Speaker 2: really maintaining their Spanish heritage, Spanish language heritage, and they
1:09:27
Speaker 2: feel just as comfortable in English and Spanish whether you're
1:09:30
Speaker 2: second or third generation Hispanic. So the reason why I say,
1:09:34
Speaker 2: it depends if you go to Salt Lake City, if
1:09:37
Speaker 2: you go to Seattle, that second generation may start feeling
1:09:44
Speaker 2: much more comfortable in English than they do in Spanish.
1:09:46
Speaker 2: But that second generation in Texas or in New Mexico,
1:09:49
Speaker 2: in Arizona feels very very strong still in connection.
1:09:54
Speaker 1: So the bigger distinction is do you live in a
1:09:57
Speaker 1: community with thirty percent of the of the community or
1:10:00
Speaker 1: more speak, Spanish versus communities where that Isn't that like that?
1:10:05
Speaker 1: I mean, that's right, that makes perfect. I mean, that's
1:10:07
Speaker 1: sort of a logic, that's sort of logical, right that
1:10:10
Speaker 1: if you're in a that's right, more predominantly a Latino city,
1:10:14
Speaker 1: then you can you can conduct life predominantly in your
1:10:19
Speaker 1: native language versus if you're you're the Idaho. That's why
1:10:23
Speaker 1: assimilate faster, you know. That's why Puerto Ricans in New
1:10:26
Speaker 1: York still are very very Puerto Rican and they they
1:10:30
Speaker 1: speak Spanish, you know, and they do that get us
1:10:33
Speaker 1: at us a migration between English and Spanish very easily.
1:10:37
Speaker 1: So let's let me throw some sort of native. So
1:10:41
Speaker 1: the Cuban voter, the Cuban American voter in Miami has
1:10:46
Speaker 1: always leaned right although by the way, it was third
1:10:49
Speaker 1: generation Cubans that have started to soften a little bit.
1:10:53
Speaker 1: You know what, the Barack Obama actually won a majority
1:10:57
Speaker 1: of Cubans twelve and then it went down. There's a
1:11:01
Speaker 1: variety of reasons for that. I think the power of
1:11:04
Speaker 1: the S word, meaning socialism can has had a huge
1:11:08
Speaker 1: negative branding effect on the Democratic Party in South Florida
1:11:11
Speaker 1: more in particular. And I want to ask more about
1:11:14
Speaker 1: that outside of Florida. But so Cubans predominantly leaned right.
1:11:20
Speaker 1: Venezuelan's mostly right, Colombians leaned left, the Central Americans in general,
1:11:26
Speaker 1: the Nicaraguans El Salvadorans also leaned a little bit left.
1:11:29
Speaker 1: I think some of that was just like, oh, there's
1:11:30
Speaker 1: more Cubans here, so we're going to be the opposite
1:11:32
Speaker 1: of the Cubans, you know a little bit of that.
1:11:34
Speaker 1: I think you go further out west, and to me,
1:11:38
Speaker 1: the Mexican American vote was a bit more generational. Right.
1:11:42
Speaker 1: Sometimes older Mexican Americans could be more conservative than the
1:11:45
Speaker 1: younger first generation, but I'm those are that's based on
1:11:50
Speaker 1: sort of twenty years and some of that's lagging indicator stuff.
1:11:52
Speaker 1: So walk me through the slight distinctions between the different
1:11:58
Speaker 1: sort of Spanic origin countries of origin, like you if
1:12:04
Speaker 1: you start going into the details and wait, like Puerto Ricans,
1:12:09
Speaker 1: the Puerto Ricans in Central Florida very much democratic well
1:12:12
Speaker 1: the Cubans. But you know, so that's what I mean
1:12:14
Speaker 1: when I say that, there's certainly certain you know. This
1:12:18
Speaker 1: is why you can't just say Latino vote. That's what
1:12:21
Speaker 1: we just brought. What if we just outlined for Princeton, Florida,
1:12:24
Speaker 1: if you do well with Puerto Ricans, you may not
1:12:25
Speaker 1: do well with Cubans, And if you do well with Cubans,
1:12:27
Speaker 1: you may not do well with Puerto Ricans. You know,
1:12:29
Speaker 1: and in a state wide race in Florida. So tell
1:12:32
Speaker 1: me how you guys are seeing the segments here based
1:12:34
Speaker 1: on country of origin.
1:12:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it's it's my country of origins. Also location,
1:12:40
Speaker 2: So let me give you. Let me give an example
1:12:42
Speaker 2: of what I mean by location that I'll go to.
1:12:44
Speaker 1: I'd love to know. I'll give you and I'll feed
1:12:46
Speaker 1: in a follow up. Texas Mexicans versus California Mexicans. Yeah,
1:12:50
Speaker 1: but I'm actually giving you even even be even more
1:12:53
Speaker 1: granular North Texas Mexicans versus border Mexicans. You know, if
1:12:58
Speaker 1: you look at what what transpired in the border, you
1:13:04
Speaker 1: know between twenty and twenty twenty four, the amount of
1:13:11
Speaker 1: just influx of immigrants that came into the border was
1:13:14
Speaker 1: causing so much frustration, so many issues to border Mexicans,
1:13:19
Speaker 1: right border any any of this, but border Mexicans, whereas
1:13:24
Speaker 1: when you go up to do the Dallas and North
1:13:26
Speaker 1: Texas area, they weren't they weren't really as affected.
1:13:30
Speaker 2: By so they couldn't see it. So you'd have in
1:13:33
Speaker 2: South Texas Mexicans in general, Mexicans who were actually more
1:13:39
Speaker 2: in favor of stricter controls of the border than you
1:13:42
Speaker 2: were in North Texas where they didn't necessarily feel it
1:13:45
Speaker 2: as much, and their cousins or their friends may have
1:13:49
Speaker 2: been deported or have been impacted by ice. So even
1:13:53
Speaker 2: within the same state and with the same ethnicity or
1:13:58
Speaker 2: country of origin, d up having different different points of
1:14:01
Speaker 2: view is just because of how they were all impacted. Now,
1:14:06
Speaker 2: I'd say the one common thread with Hispanics and uh,
1:14:12
Speaker 2: and I'll generalize this is that it's no longer a
1:14:17
Speaker 2: republican and democratic vote. You know, you can't rely on
1:14:20
Speaker 2: the Cubans to be Republican. You can't rely on on
1:14:23
Speaker 2: per Rigans to be democratic. The things that unite Hispanics
1:14:30
Speaker 2: aside from soccer, is the fact that they are very
1:14:34
Speaker 2: family focused and they're very faith focused. Like family and
1:14:38
Speaker 2: faith is an important opponent of what what what brings
1:14:43
Speaker 2: all Nicaraguan, Salvadorians, Dominicans all all together. But at the core,
1:14:50
Speaker 2: the issue about the economy and how that impacts them
1:14:55
Speaker 2: demographically is the same will impact this will You'll have
1:15:00
Speaker 2: the same reaction with a Cuban if it impacts them
1:15:03
Speaker 2: economically as it would to a U, a Dominican, or
1:15:08
Speaker 2: it would as it would be to a a Mexican
1:15:11
Speaker 2: or Nicaraguan. And that's when you start and then to
1:15:14
Speaker 2: start peeling the peeling the onion. You say, all right,
1:15:17
Speaker 2: what is happening to Mexican Americans in Los Angeles versus
1:15:22
Speaker 2: Nicaraguan UH Americans in Los Angeles? What's that? What's what's
1:15:27
Speaker 2: the economic impact to the to these to these into
1:15:30
Speaker 2: to whatever policies that may be happening. And for the
1:15:33
Speaker 2: most part, as you start going into these like you
1:15:37
Speaker 2: start getting into diminishing returns of targeting, where you say,
1:15:40
Speaker 2: all right, I'm only going to target a message to Salvadorians,
1:15:43
Speaker 2: which is going to be different for Nicaraguans, It's gonna
1:15:45
Speaker 2: be different for Guatemalives. The campaign can't do that, So
1:15:49
Speaker 2: what they need to do is to say, what is
1:15:51
Speaker 2: the predominant vote that is going to swing the election?
1:15:55
Speaker 2: You know, and most of most of the contested elections
1:15:58
Speaker 2: that we have going on was Mexico, Arizona, and Georgia, Texas, California, Florida.
1:16:04
Speaker 2: The Hispanic vote is going to be the swing vote
1:16:06
Speaker 2: and is the one that is the most up for
1:16:08
Speaker 2: grabs that I've seen in terms of the data that
1:16:11
Speaker 2: can lean one way or the other, which is a
1:16:13
Speaker 2: set very different from what it was eight to or
1:16:16
Speaker 2: during during the Obama years, eight years or beyond. And
1:16:20
Speaker 2: then just really understand, like like tall Ico was doing,
1:16:24
Speaker 2: like Cheryl did, like Ted Cruz did, what matters to
1:16:28
Speaker 2: these individual constituents. And then how do I ensure that
1:16:31
Speaker 2: I'm communicating and then executing on what it is that
1:16:34
Speaker 2: I'm promising to them.
1:16:44
Speaker 1: How well are gringo politicians received when they speak Spanish
1:16:48
Speaker 1: on you on Univision, And.
1:16:53
Speaker 2: On the assumption that on the assumption that they're not
1:16:55
Speaker 2: saying anything offensive the fact that they're just showing up.
1:17:00
Speaker 1: And speaking the native their non native language to communicating.
1:17:05
Speaker 1: Is that is that a huge advantage for some first candidate.
1:17:08
Speaker 2: It's a huge advantage obviously if you know, if you're
1:17:13
Speaker 2: Marco Rubio, who speaks fluent Spanish, it helps.
1:17:16
Speaker 1: Right of course.
1:17:17
Speaker 2: But if you're not, and I say this to all the.
1:17:19
Speaker 1: Campaign Colico speaks Spanish, correct, it's just shown up and done.
1:17:23
Speaker 1: Spanish language is very is how did Budaji do? Didn't
1:17:27
Speaker 1: he attempt? He did? Okay, he did? Okay?
1:17:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I'll say, and I say this to all
1:17:33
Speaker 2: the campaigns, don't make the mistake of, oh, I'm not
1:17:38
Speaker 2: going to show up on Univision for an interview because
1:17:43
Speaker 2: I don't speak the language. So, uh, Maria or Jose
1:17:47
Speaker 2: on my campaign, why don't you go represent me? Oh?
1:17:50
Speaker 1: And you put yeah, that is that worse?
1:17:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a terrible that's the worst thing to do,
1:17:55
Speaker 2: because it means you don't think we're important enough to
1:17:58
Speaker 2: show up. And we have right now now we launched months.
1:18:02
Speaker 1: Ago, perfect sense. And yet this has been the way
1:18:04
Speaker 1: that Univision has been stuck with campaign surrogates who literally
1:18:09
Speaker 1: their only job is to speak Spanish for the.
1:18:10
Speaker 2: Campaign except for winning campaigns where they where the candidate
1:18:14
Speaker 2: actually shows up. So we have we we just launched
1:18:17
Speaker 2: three months ago a political show that that that is
1:18:21
Speaker 2: on Sundays called About this Week, and we've said to
1:18:27
Speaker 2: both sides of the aisle, show up. We're going to
1:18:29
Speaker 2: give you a fair deal. You know where where we've
1:18:32
Speaker 2: we've decided to go very center as as a network.
1:18:36
Speaker 2: And you know, we've had from Gavin Newsom to to
1:18:41
Speaker 2: corn In Uh, you know, an incredible breadth of of
1:18:46
Speaker 2: of of candidates and and currently sitting sitting politicians who's
1:18:50
Speaker 2: shown up. And it's actually been fantastic. But I'll tell you, Chuck,
1:18:55
Speaker 2: it's actually sometimes tough to even convince people to show
1:18:58
Speaker 2: up on earned media. Yeah, because you say, I just
1:19:01
Speaker 2: feel uncomfortab when I said, don't don't make that mistake,
1:19:05
Speaker 2: don't do it.
1:19:06
Speaker 1: And still some times tell me, tell me, you know,
1:19:09
Speaker 1: give me three, Give me three people on both sides
1:19:12
Speaker 1: of the A because I don't want you to look
1:19:13
Speaker 1: like you're playing favorites. Here. Give me three people on
1:19:15
Speaker 1: both sides of the aisle that you've been impressed with
1:19:17
Speaker 1: over the last couple of years. That's sort of you
1:19:19
Speaker 1: think gets it on the that are in the political sphere.
1:19:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're going to get me in trouble by me
1:19:29
Speaker 2: answering this question. But I've given you, I've given you
1:19:32
Speaker 2: some examples.
1:19:33
Speaker 1: You know.
1:19:33
Speaker 2: I think I think what Tyler Rico did was really smart.
1:19:38
Speaker 2: I think what Cheryl did in New Jersey was very smart.
1:19:41
Speaker 2: I think what Donald Trump and Susie Wilds did in
1:19:44
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty four election was very very smart.
1:19:47
Speaker 1: It's interesting you said, it's Susie Wilder Donald Trump. A
1:19:51
Speaker 1: campaign run by somebody from not the state of Florida
1:19:56
Speaker 1: might not have been as in tune with the important
1:19:59
Speaker 1: Subspanish languag media. Yeah, versus Susie Wiles, who's you know,
1:20:03
Speaker 1: cut her teeth in Florida politics over. Let me give
1:20:06
Speaker 1: you an example of years.
1:20:07
Speaker 2: So another example, we were the only network to host
1:20:11
Speaker 2: town halls with both Vice President Harris and President Trump.
1:20:16
Speaker 2: She came first, he came, he came a week a
1:20:18
Speaker 2: week later, And when we sat down with the campaigns,
1:20:22
Speaker 2: we said, look, the what I what I reiterated, the
1:20:26
Speaker 2: Hispanic vote isn't isn't issues votes now no longer Democratic vote.
1:20:31
Speaker 2: So if I were in your shoes, you have your
1:20:33
Speaker 2: candidates showing up. I would actually target your message before
1:20:38
Speaker 2: the town hall and after the town hall, own the
1:20:41
Speaker 2: messaging around it, and if you're even more aggressive, own
1:20:45
Speaker 2: the messaging around your opponent's town halls. H the Hairs
1:20:50
Speaker 2: campaign said we've got it. As I said, We're going
1:20:54
Speaker 2: to go on Google, We're going to go on on Facebook.
1:20:57
Speaker 1: And yeah, they did a great job.
1:21:00
Speaker 2: And when we when we met with the Trump campaign
1:21:02
Speaker 2: that said, I get it. And what they did is
1:21:05
Speaker 2: they bookend, bookended around the town halls. And we saw
1:21:10
Speaker 2: a significant shift in momentum towards Trump literally as you
1:21:15
Speaker 2: led up to the election, and you know, a few
1:21:17
Speaker 2: days before the election, people were wondering to go, this
1:21:19
Speaker 2: is going to be a toss up, et cetera. The
1:21:22
Speaker 2: data that that we were seeing was the spanning boat
1:21:24
Speaker 2: was leaning exactly where it ended ended up going. Now
1:21:29
Speaker 2: fast forward two years later, it's up for grabs again,
1:21:33
Speaker 2: you know, and that's the question is how are you
1:21:35
Speaker 2: going to be able to message? It'll just two more
1:21:37
Speaker 2: data points that I saw from our recent polling that
1:21:40
Speaker 2: I think was was really interesting sad. One is that
1:21:45
Speaker 2: about three quarters of people who were who were were pulled.
1:21:50
Speaker 2: Hispanics that were pulled said that they're they're barely getting by.
1:21:55
Speaker 2: It's not that they're that they're saving that they're throwing.
1:21:58
Speaker 1: Down now And how much of that is how much
1:22:00
Speaker 1: of how much of that I imagine that over indexes
1:22:04
Speaker 1: on first gen.
1:22:05
Speaker 2: It over indexes on first and second first second, whether
1:22:10
Speaker 2: this is the story of immigrants in America from since
1:22:12
Speaker 2: we've started polling, and you can probably you know, if
1:22:15
Speaker 2: we had had a poll about the Germans and the
1:22:17
Speaker 2: first you know, Irish in the first right, it was
1:22:20
Speaker 2: this same thing where they're the ones on the they're
1:22:24
Speaker 2: the ones that are the most susceptible to consumer sentiment
1:22:27
Speaker 2: positive and negative. When people have money in their pocket,
1:22:30
Speaker 2: immigrants have money in their pocket, and when people don't
1:22:32
Speaker 2: have their money, the first people who lose lose opportunity
1:22:35
Speaker 2: or immigrants, those are the on gen. So that that
1:22:38
Speaker 2: was one. The other is an interesting all the interesting
1:22:41
Speaker 2: data is that eighty percent of the people are polled
1:22:45
Speaker 2: lend money to family members or their community. Right, so
1:22:50
Speaker 2: you have a community's three quarters of them are barely
1:22:53
Speaker 2: getting by, and those that are barely getting by are
1:22:56
Speaker 2: also helping help.
1:22:58
Speaker 1: At somebody, maybe it's somebody in another country. Maybe they've
1:23:00
Speaker 1: sent money home, right or is it you know, for the.
1:23:03
Speaker 2: Most part to it, but we're seeing is that they're
1:23:05
Speaker 2: really helping. Actually it's a local help.
1:23:08
Speaker 1: Okay.
1:23:08
Speaker 2: I was curious to see how much of this was
1:23:10
Speaker 2: diaspora versus versus correct they see that.
1:23:13
Speaker 1: They're being hurt.
1:23:14
Speaker 2: And then the last one, which I actually thought was
1:23:16
Speaker 2: a really reinvigorating data point is over ninety percent want
1:23:23
Speaker 2: to live the American dream.
1:23:25
Speaker 1: And that's that's it. That's a quote.
1:23:27
Speaker 2: You know, we really want to live the American They
1:23:29
Speaker 2: want to be American, they want to make this country.
1:23:32
Speaker 1: You know, a stronger came by choice. Now, you could
1:23:35
Speaker 1: say they didn't feel like they had any oppert that
1:23:38
Speaker 1: you could argue they believed they had no choice but
1:23:40
Speaker 1: to leave, which is why they chose to leave. But
1:23:43
Speaker 1: it is a choice, and they chose us.
1:23:45
Speaker 2: They they chose us, and they chose they want to build,
1:23:49
Speaker 2: you know, a better world for their family, for the community,
1:23:52
Speaker 2: obviously for the United States. But I thought that last
1:23:55
Speaker 2: point was was was really reinvigorating.
1:23:58
Speaker 1: Well, that tells you, that tells you you better be
1:24:00
Speaker 1: a little optimistic. You can't just sell doom and gloom
1:24:04
Speaker 1: and you know this. You know, it's interesting the two
1:24:07
Speaker 1: Republicans that have that have i could say three Republicans
1:24:13
Speaker 1: in this century who have really understood the Latino vote culturally,
1:24:19
Speaker 1: even though they were not sort of of it. And
1:24:23
Speaker 1: it was on this issue the projection of of a
1:24:27
Speaker 1: of the American dream, and it was Bush, Arnold and Trump.
1:24:32
Speaker 1: And Arnold and Trump are very similar figures, right, they
1:24:36
Speaker 1: are they're they're they're they're a bit you know, they're promoters. Yeah,
1:24:42
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're selling something. Arnold selling something. Trump
1:24:45
Speaker 1: has always been selling something. But you know that's you know,
1:24:51
Speaker 1: there's an immigrant dream story here that that that that
1:24:55
Speaker 1: I think is a real connection and and I think
1:24:59
Speaker 1: that that that's that positivity. It might explain why Obama
1:25:04
Speaker 1: overdid it over you know, end up overperforming with latinos.
1:25:07
Speaker 1: And I think now in hindsight we know he overperformed
1:25:09
Speaker 1: with latinos. Is he also was very optimistic. He wasn't
1:25:13
Speaker 1: negative and the negative messaging right with Hillary Clinton's campaign
1:25:16
Speaker 1: was very much watch out there coming for you. Yes,
1:25:20
Speaker 1: and you know, she may think, she may think she thought,
1:25:23
Speaker 1: you know, and I think she was listening to the
1:25:25
Speaker 1: interest groups too much rather than actually talking with average
1:25:29
Speaker 1: everyday American Hispanics right of what their life was like.
1:25:33
Speaker 1: They they wanted, they wanted what Trump was selling, even
1:25:36
Speaker 1: if they didn't like Trump the person. And I think
1:25:39
Speaker 1: that that optimism, I don't know, that's an interesting and
1:25:43
Speaker 1: an underappreciated aspect. I think this has been true of
1:25:47
Speaker 1: immigrant communities in the history of our country, is that
1:25:50
Speaker 1: they're you know, they're almost more bullish on America than
1:25:53
Speaker 1: the average American.
1:25:55
Speaker 2: What you have to go through to come to this country,
1:25:58
Speaker 2: whatever it is that you're escaping from, you know, either
1:26:01
Speaker 2: the comfort of your family and extended family and where
1:26:04
Speaker 2: you are, or you know, an oppressive regime to come here,
1:26:08
Speaker 2: you're you're you're aspirational. And and that's the part, you know,
1:26:13
Speaker 2: I think the positivism, but also that the opportunity is
1:26:17
Speaker 2: there and we're going to help you live up to
1:26:20
Speaker 2: that opportunity.
1:26:21
Speaker 1: One more that's one more American politics question, and then
1:26:24
Speaker 1: I have a Mexican political question for you. Hey, I
1:26:28
Speaker 1: also have family in Mexico and and and there's I
1:26:31
Speaker 1: know it's a I know how much Amlo and shinebamb
1:26:35
Speaker 1: can can divide Mexicans in a variety of ways, especially
1:26:39
Speaker 1: the higher up on the income scale. You go, but identity,
1:26:45
Speaker 1: you know, there's gonna be a lot of Democrats who
1:26:47
Speaker 1: are not familiar with the Latino vote. To go Ruben Diego.
1:26:50
Speaker 1: He's got to be on the ticket. That's the answer
1:26:53
Speaker 1: that'll fix all that ails. He's from the border, you know,
1:26:57
Speaker 1: he's from a state that borders Mexico.
1:27:01
Speaker 2: Powerful.
1:27:01
Speaker 1: How powerful is identity, Marco Ruby? How powerful is that identity?
1:27:06
Speaker 1: I mean, I I think it can matter on the margins,
1:27:12
Speaker 1: you know, but I don't know. And you know this better.
1:27:16
Speaker 1: Would a Latino candidate overperformed with Latinos in the way
1:27:19
Speaker 1: that Barack Obama overperformed with African Americans?
1:27:23
Speaker 2: Not necessarily, not necessarily. You may get an initial bump
1:27:28
Speaker 2: and excitement of Okay, here's someone who understands us, you know,
1:27:33
Speaker 2: here's someone who who speaks our language. Here's someone who
1:27:37
Speaker 2: maybe had a similar background to what we've gone through
1:27:40
Speaker 2: and understands what it takes, you know, to survive, you know,
1:27:44
Speaker 2: to barely get by, as I mentioned earlier, But if
1:27:50
Speaker 2: you know the other part that I've also I've also
1:27:54
Speaker 2: noticed because the vote has become an issue's vote. They
1:27:59
Speaker 2: are so much more energized and so much more at
1:28:02
Speaker 2: tune to what's going on, and they know that their
1:28:05
Speaker 2: vote matters. We have a well back on Bigo approach
1:28:09
Speaker 2: where we're actually getting the people out to vote. And
1:28:12
Speaker 2: just in the first ten days we already had twenty
1:28:15
Speaker 2: eight thousand people registered to vote. We had seven thousand
1:28:18
Speaker 2: I think in Atlanta it just a matter of like
1:28:21
Speaker 2: thirty six forty eight hours. So they're eager, they're really
1:28:24
Speaker 2: wanting to vote, and they are going to smoke through,
1:28:28
Speaker 2: you know, any fake promises or platitudes just because you're
1:28:32
Speaker 2: Hispanic or just because you know you're from Los Angeles
1:28:35
Speaker 2: or from you know, a border town. They they are
1:28:41
Speaker 2: listing and they are paying attention. So the fact that
1:28:44
Speaker 2: you bring someone who's Hispanic, sure that tends to be
1:28:49
Speaker 2: favorable because maybe that person actually has lived through what
1:28:52
Speaker 2: we know and maybe more tune. But if that individual
1:28:56
Speaker 2: is made up, you know, it's a phony approach behind it,
1:29:00
Speaker 2: and they're only doing it just to to see see, yeah,
1:29:04
Speaker 2: I get Hispanics, and here's here's my token Hispanic. Very
1:29:09
Speaker 2: very quickly, they'll see through that. And this is a
1:29:11
Speaker 2: very engaged electorate.
1:29:14
Speaker 1: Very Marco Rubio versus Reuben Diego. What would that be
1:29:17
Speaker 1: like for the Latino community to Hispanics. Yeah, culturally very different,
1:29:24
Speaker 1: no no, no, I mean, but also culturally very different, right,
1:29:27
Speaker 1: you know, you would have right, the West Coast experience,
1:29:31
Speaker 1: the Western experience for Latinos or is different than the
1:29:34
Speaker 1: Florida experience from.
1:29:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, the right candidate can unify the vote.
1:29:39
Speaker 2: It doesn't necessarily have to be uh, you know, the
1:29:42
Speaker 2: Mexican to vote for Mexicans or a Cuban that gets
1:29:45
Speaker 2: the Cuban that gets the Mexican vote.
1:29:46
Speaker 1: You know, you together, which political community attacks you guys
1:29:53
Speaker 1: the most, the Mexican political community for bias or the
1:29:56
Speaker 1: American political community for bias, like you know, I mean,
1:29:59
Speaker 1: I'm joking, but it's sort of like you know, I know,
1:30:01
Speaker 1: in Mexican politics it works just like American bob oh,
1:30:04
Speaker 1: that network is for that candidate or that networks for
1:30:07
Speaker 1: that party. Right, we have it here. It's true in Mexico.
1:30:10
Speaker 1: I'm just curious where where do you as the CEO,
1:30:14
Speaker 1: you know, do you just hear it in stereo or
1:30:16
Speaker 1: or is it more so that this conversation happens in
1:30:20
Speaker 1: America than it happens in Mexico or vice versa.
1:30:23
Speaker 2: What what I think We're going through an evolution as
1:30:27
Speaker 2: a as a network, because to be completely frank, if
1:30:31
Speaker 2: you just go back five years, we were a very
1:30:35
Speaker 2: left leaning network.
1:30:36
Speaker 1: Well I think Jorge Ramos was the face whether you know,
1:30:39
Speaker 1: look we had that Look this happened to me. I'm
1:30:42
Speaker 1: gonna I'm going to sort of relieve you of this
1:30:44
Speaker 1: issue here a second, like, uh, you know, sometimes people
1:30:50
Speaker 1: perceived my politics based on MSNBC, Yes, even though I
1:30:55
Speaker 1: was not, you know, and and and sometimes NBC's political
1:31:00
Speaker 1: supposed leanings were defined by the cable channel and the
1:31:05
Speaker 1: most prominent people on that cable channel rather than actually
1:31:08
Speaker 1: the work we were actually doing. So I Jorge Ramos
1:31:11
Speaker 1: is my guess is his outsized political awareness, right, the
1:31:19
Speaker 1: awareness and the political community created a perception that all
1:31:22
Speaker 1: of Univision was forge Ramos. Is that correct? Where you
1:31:25
Speaker 1: would go? Yeah, like I said, I say it that way.
1:31:27
Speaker 1: It feels very familiar to what I dealt with between
1:31:31
Speaker 1: the peacock being and MS and on NBC and what
1:31:35
Speaker 1: the political viewers decided to look at.
1:31:37
Speaker 2: Yes, and what we did is we made a concerned
1:31:41
Speaker 2: effort in twenty twenty three to say, okay, we're going
1:31:45
Speaker 2: to represent the voice of the spanis we represent all
1:31:47
Speaker 2: voice of his Hispanics. So we hosted an interview with
1:31:50
Speaker 2: Donald Trump and we also hosted an interview with President
1:31:54
Speaker 2: Biden at the.
1:31:55
Speaker 1: Time, and I remember people looked at it as a
1:31:58
Speaker 1: transactional I remember, you guys got hit on transactional terms.
1:32:02
Speaker 1: But the fact is, look, Republicans Latinos would not go
1:32:06
Speaker 1: on Universion, but would go on Telemundo. And it was
1:32:09
Speaker 1: probably turning into a headache for you guys.
1:32:11
Speaker 2: I correct, and and and Democrats just assumed that universions
1:32:17
Speaker 2: on our side, so they wouldn't even show up. So
1:32:20
Speaker 2: when we go to the center, what happens. Uh, People
1:32:24
Speaker 2: who were who are on the left, and and and
1:32:26
Speaker 2: would construe us as being a left leaning network thought
1:32:30
Speaker 2: we went right.
1:32:31
Speaker 1: Yep, we did. We did. We might have left the center,
1:32:35
Speaker 1: we didn't go right of center. Right. And then just
1:32:39
Speaker 1: because you're not liberal doesn't make you a conservative. It
1:32:41
Speaker 1: just because you're not conservative doesn't make you a liberal. Correct,
1:32:44
Speaker 1: that's exactly right.
1:32:45
Speaker 2: And then on on the right, they still think where
1:32:49
Speaker 2: they they would think, Oh no, no, that's that's the
1:32:52
Speaker 2: that's the we can't catch you up. So uh, We've
1:32:55
Speaker 2: been very very very careful and committed, and I've been
1:32:59
Speaker 2: committed to see know, you know since I've been CEO
1:33:02
Speaker 2: for for almost two years, of ensuring equal access and
1:33:06
Speaker 2: equal opinions and then let the audience decide what it is.
1:33:11
Speaker 1: So I think we're now at a really good place.
1:33:13
Speaker 1: As I said, with that in Mexico. See, I think
1:33:16
Speaker 1: you are in the American political landscape. I'm just curious
1:33:18
Speaker 1: how about the Mexican political landscape, which to me is
1:33:20
Speaker 1: also somewhat complicated, even though it's such a one party
1:33:24
Speaker 1: rule state at the moment or a country at the moment.
1:33:27
Speaker 2: I think I think we've we've been able to maneuver
1:33:29
Speaker 2: that very very very well to be able to be
1:33:33
Speaker 2: you know, impartial and give the right side of the
1:33:38
Speaker 2: like the different sides of the story, and let the
1:33:40
Speaker 2: audience decide. I don't think people see us as are
1:33:46
Speaker 2: in a news or they see us as your fun news.
1:33:51
Speaker 2: We we really try to provide the right level of information.
1:33:54
Speaker 1: What the audience society. Yeah, I'm fascinated with the rise
1:34:01
Speaker 1: of Claudia Shinebamb because it's just the idea that I
1:34:05
Speaker 1: don't know if the United States of America would ever
1:34:06
Speaker 1: elect somebody with the last name of Shinebam and Mexico did.
1:34:12
Speaker 1: I mean not only look, I followed the election very closely.
1:34:14
Speaker 1: I know how it happened. But it is sort of
1:34:16
Speaker 1: an interesting it's an interesting juxtaposition. We've yet to elect
1:34:19
Speaker 1: a woman, let alone a Jewish woman.
1:34:21
Speaker 2: That's what I was going I was going to say,
1:34:23
Speaker 2: it's not only the Shinebom, but it's the Claudia. Honestly,
1:34:26
Speaker 2: it's a testament to Mexico, you know, the you might
1:34:29
Speaker 2: say Mexico is a very conservative country or you know the.
1:34:34
Speaker 1: So called you know me chism, whatever you want to
1:34:37
Speaker 1: call it. You know, uh, the little male dominated.
1:34:39
Speaker 2: You know, they elected a you know, a woman of faith,
1:34:44
Speaker 2: which is a minority to what is in the rest
1:34:47
Speaker 2: of the country. And woman that's that's actually she made
1:34:50
Speaker 2: me very proud, to be completely honest.
1:34:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, she manages it's it's interesting to watch her relationship.
1:34:57
Speaker 1: The fact, if I told you that the president of
1:34:59
Speaker 1: Mexico would have a better relationship with the President of
1:35:01
Speaker 1: the United States than the Prime Minister of Canada, what
1:35:04
Speaker 1: would that tell you, right, I mean it's unusual.
1:35:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh, obviously a complicated, tricky situation.
1:35:13
Speaker 1: But yeah, outside of Mexican Americans and the largest Spanish
1:35:19
Speaker 1: language identity group that watches your programs.
1:35:25
Speaker 2: Outside of Mexican Americans, Uh, it's uh, i'd probably say
1:35:34
Speaker 2: it's the Cuban in Venezuela. Interesting, Yeah, before Puerto Ricans,
1:35:40
Speaker 2: before Puerto Rican. Yeah, well, you know Puerto Rican. What
1:35:43
Speaker 2: we've we've done is you said that, you said this earlier.
1:35:47
Speaker 2: You know, Telemundo was more of uh, Puerto Rican, Dominican
1:35:52
Speaker 2: and Cuban, and what we've done is we we really
1:35:55
Speaker 2: am more Caribbean and one was more Latin American. Right, yeah,
1:35:58
Speaker 2: ever so much much more what we do. But I've
1:36:02
Speaker 2: we have very very strong presence in Pennsylvania and New
1:36:06
Speaker 2: York and we're investing a lot of that to get
1:36:08
Speaker 2: closer to those communities. So I'd say in general we're
1:36:13
Speaker 2: broad based. Obviously, Mexican Americans being the largest swath of
1:36:18
Speaker 2: Hispanics in the United States, we have a much much,
1:36:20
Speaker 2: much larger percentage of Mexicans. But our content really, you know,
1:36:27
Speaker 2: not only our content, but our platforms, which is streaming,
1:36:30
Speaker 2: TV and radio.
1:36:33
Speaker 1: Is playing playing broader? Forgive my ignorance. Do you have
1:36:37
Speaker 1: the World Cup in Mexico and in the United States
1:36:40
Speaker 1: or just Mexico.
1:36:41
Speaker 2: We have the World Cup in Mexico, both in streaming
1:36:45
Speaker 2: and in television, and we have radio rights for the
1:36:50
Speaker 2: World Cup in the United States.
1:36:52
Speaker 1: So the country that if Mexico's out early, you guys
1:36:58
Speaker 1: are not happy, correct, they better they better get to
1:37:03
Speaker 1: the knockout round, right?
1:37:04
Speaker 2: Well, that that would that would be that would be fantastic.
1:37:07
Speaker 2: But look, Hispanics and Mexicans, they just love their soccer,
1:37:12
Speaker 2: you know.
1:37:12
Speaker 1: And so even if Mexico's out, you feel like your
1:37:14
Speaker 1: numbers will be good.
1:37:16
Speaker 2: Our numbers are going to be are going to be fantastic. People,
1:37:20
Speaker 2: And it's it's in Mexico, it's in the US, it's
1:37:22
Speaker 2: in Canada.
1:37:23
Speaker 1: Like It's that really excited me. I really hope politics
1:37:27
Speaker 1: doesn't get in the way of this, this idea of
1:37:29
Speaker 1: North America working as one on this. I mean, I'd
1:37:32
Speaker 1: really love to see the MLS become a true sort
1:37:35
Speaker 1: of hemispheric soccer league. I think there's some real opportunity
1:37:39
Speaker 1: if the MLS would look south rather than always always
1:37:42
Speaker 1: trying to compare itself to to what's in Europe, and
1:37:45
Speaker 1: and it's like the opportunity of a of an MLS
1:37:49
Speaker 1: that is from South Paolo to Vancouver and everything in
1:37:54
Speaker 1: between could be extraordinarily powerful. And I agree this was
1:38:00
Speaker 1: this was an interesting experiment. I just hope, like I said,
1:38:02
Speaker 1: I hope our politics will screw it up.
1:38:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, but look, I soccer. Soccer is obviously massive in
1:38:09
Speaker 2: the United States. Seventy percent of all soccer games that
1:38:13
Speaker 2: are broadcast, both in English and Spanish and whatever language
1:38:17
Speaker 2: are broadcast divisioned. So like we we have any theredile.
1:38:21
Speaker 1: You guys, you guys are owning it the way Espno's
1:38:23
Speaker 1: college football. You're your home.
1:38:25
Speaker 2: You're the home of America where the American soccer or
1:38:28
Speaker 2: international football, right exactly.
1:38:31
Speaker 1: And they love it.
1:38:32
Speaker 2: They tun into us.
1:38:34
Speaker 1: It's uh.
1:38:35
Speaker 2: And that's that's why you know.
1:38:37
Speaker 1: I go back to this.
1:38:38
Speaker 2: I keep mentioning the term that we are the voice
1:38:40
Speaker 2: of Hispanics. My my real goal in what I do
1:38:44
Speaker 2: is as CEOs, I really want to make sure, whether
1:38:48
Speaker 2: it's advertisers, whether it's candidates, can connect with Hispanics and
1:38:53
Speaker 2: with the issues that matter to them.
1:38:55
Speaker 1: And this is your goal as anybody with any Hispanic
1:38:58
Speaker 1: heritage is going to be watching some thing on Univision, and.
1:39:01
Speaker 2: They're going to be They're going to getting their news
1:39:03
Speaker 2: from us, They're getting to get their laughter from us,
1:39:05
Speaker 2: They're going to get their sports from us. But the
1:39:07
Speaker 2: most important part for me is that their voice is heard.
1:39:12
Speaker 2: You know, every campaign, every election cycle to go. This
1:39:16
Speaker 2: is the most important election.
1:39:17
Speaker 1: In yet to cover one that wasn't. That's always my joke.
1:39:20
Speaker 1: I can't wait to cover my first presidential election. That's
1:39:23
Speaker 1: not the most important in my lifetime. Let me know
1:39:25
Speaker 1: when that happens.
1:39:26
Speaker 2: But look at twenty twenty four, Hispanics elected who was
1:39:30
Speaker 2: going to be president. In twenty second Hispanics are going
1:39:33
Speaker 2: to decide who is going to have control of Congress.
1:39:37
Speaker 2: So my message to all those campaigns out there is
1:39:41
Speaker 2: you need to understand the issues that matter to that
1:39:44
Speaker 2: near Hispanic constituents. They are going to be the swin vote.
1:39:48
Speaker 2: Their vote is up for grabs and if you ignore
1:39:51
Speaker 2: this vote, it's at your pair.
1:39:53
Speaker 1: Well, Daniel, I'm excited that you guys are investing more.
1:39:56
Speaker 1: I'd love to see more polling out of you guys.
1:39:59
Speaker 1: More data, more data, more data I want, and if
1:40:03
Speaker 1: I could order up something I want. You know, the
1:40:06
Speaker 1: Pew Charitable Trust used to do this sort of super
1:40:10
Speaker 1: large sample of all American voters and then create these
1:40:14
Speaker 1: like nine categories to remind people. You know, Yes, you
1:40:17
Speaker 1: can simplify it and say it's red and blue, but
1:40:18
Speaker 1: it's very complicated. I want the great sort of political
1:40:23
Speaker 1: census of the Latino vote. Seeing it, you know, by
1:40:29
Speaker 1: country of origin, by year, you know which generation, and
1:40:33
Speaker 1: all these things. You guys can own this. I'm so
1:40:38
Speaker 1: glad to hear you guys are investing in more data
1:40:41
Speaker 1: because you know, nothing demystifies anything like data.
1:40:45
Speaker 2: I agree, And then we're the impartial source. So we've
1:40:48
Speaker 2: done polling in Texas, we did polling in California, we
1:40:51
Speaker 2: did the seventeen battleground States polling that we just released
1:40:55
Speaker 2: two weeks ago, and there's more to come. Challenge accepted, Chuck.
1:40:59
Speaker 1: Awesome, Wait, I love what you're doing, Daniel. Great to
1:41:01
Speaker 1: get enjoyed this conversation a lot. Appreciate it.
1:41:04
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
1:41:05
Speaker 1: All right, my friend bite. This episode of the Chuck
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1:42:54
Speaker 1: is easily one of the most memorable. Let me put
1:42:57
Speaker 1: it this way. For my generation, I was born after
1:42:59
Speaker 1: can he was assassinated. For my generation, there are a
1:43:06
Speaker 1: handful of experiences that like it is if you weren't there,
1:43:12
Speaker 1: if you weren't alive for it, it is hard to
1:43:14
Speaker 1: put it in words. The Challenger explosion nine to eleven, obviously,
1:43:27
Speaker 1: and this anniversary that we're marking this week, June seventeenth,
1:43:33
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. In fact, when Americans think about June seventeenth,
1:43:39
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four, the first thing they may think of
1:43:43
Speaker 1: is a white Ford Bronco. They may remember the helicopter shots,
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Speaker 1: they may remember the police cars, traveling at a not
1:43:52
Speaker 1: so speedy thirty five miles an hour. They may remember
1:43:57
Speaker 1: that the NBA Finals were squeezed into a little box
1:44:00
Speaker 1: on the television screen. And yes, for thirty years, a
1:44:04
Speaker 1: certain kind of Knicks fan has nursed a theory that
1:44:07
Speaker 1: the OJ circus distracted the New York Knicks more than
1:44:11
Speaker 1: the Houston Rockets during those NBA Finals, costing them a
1:44:14
Speaker 1: chance at a championship back in nineteen ninety four. It's
1:44:19
Speaker 1: a lovely theory, of course, and also falls apart the
1:44:22
Speaker 1: moment you check the schedule. June seventeenth was Game five,
1:44:26
Speaker 1: the Knicks one, so it was at at Madison Square Garden.
1:44:33
Speaker 1: The Knicks were up three games to two. Then they
1:44:35
Speaker 1: flew to Houston and lost the final two games of
1:44:37
Speaker 1: the series. So I don't know if you can blame OJ,
1:44:39
Speaker 1: although maybe you could say that the Knicks were more
1:44:44
Speaker 1: distracted than the Rockets were by the OJ story. But
1:44:47
Speaker 1: was there evidence for that theory? No, there wasn't. But
1:44:49
Speaker 1: when you were nursing a championship drought as long as
1:44:52
Speaker 1: Knicks fans were, you were going to look for anything
1:44:56
Speaker 1: to sort of answer why it's been so long, And
1:44:59
Speaker 1: of course says if this week, New York doesn't need
1:45:01
Speaker 1: to nurse those grievances anymore. The Nicks have finally won
1:45:05
Speaker 1: their first title since nineteen seventy three. Nothing like that
1:45:11
Speaker 1: parade to cure a thirty year grudge. By the way,
1:45:14
Speaker 1: it's going to Actually on June seventeenth, nineteen ninety four,
1:45:17
Speaker 1: the day of the Court Bronco Chase, was the day
1:45:19
Speaker 1: of the New York Rangers Tick or Tate Parade in
1:45:21
Speaker 1: New York City, So I think this year it'll be
1:45:23
Speaker 1: on June eighteenth for those keeping score. But I'm digressing
1:45:26
Speaker 1: here a little bit, because what June seventeen, nineteen ninety
1:45:30
Speaker 1: four is really memorable for is, of course O. J. Simpson,
1:45:36
Speaker 1: And they may also remember a note read by his friend,
1:45:38
Speaker 1: an attorney, Robert Kardashian, Yes, that Kardashian that many people
1:45:42
Speaker 1: watching interpreted as a suicide note, and then they remember
1:45:46
Speaker 1: the chase. But what I think we've forgotten is what
1:45:50
Speaker 1: television executives were learning while the rest of us were
1:45:54
Speaker 1: watching this Bronco chase. Because I don't think June seventeenth,
1:45:58
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four became one of the most hot and
1:46:00
Speaker 1: dates in modern media history. Because of O. J.
1:46:03
Speaker 2: Simpson.
1:46:04
Speaker 1: I think it became one because of what happened after
1:46:07
Speaker 1: June seventeenth, Because somewhere between the White Bronco and the
1:46:11
Speaker 1: eventual verdict, the news business learned something people would come
1:46:17
Speaker 1: back tomorrow. And once an industry learns that lesson, it
1:46:22
Speaker 1: starts building itself around it. Now, I want to start
1:46:24
Speaker 1: with a caveat. I'm not going to argue that OJ
1:46:27
Speaker 1: Simpson invented sensationalism. America was obsessed with the Linburg kidnap
1:46:34
Speaker 1: It okay, the Sam Shephard case became a national fixation
1:46:38
Speaker 1: back in the day. Those were tabloid stories long before
1:46:42
Speaker 1: OJ came along. Human beings have always been fascinated by crime, celebrity, scandal, mystery,
1:46:47
Speaker 1: and gossip. So that's not new. What makes OJ different
1:46:51
Speaker 1: isn't that America became obsessed. America's been obsessed before. What
1:46:57
Speaker 1: makes OJ different is that an entire industry discovered how
1:47:01
Speaker 1: valuable an obsession could become if it lasted long enough.
1:47:06
Speaker 1: Lindbergh was an event. OJ became a format. Let me explain.
1:47:14
Speaker 1: Let's go back. It's worth remembering what the television business
1:47:17
Speaker 1: looked like in the early nineties. The old model was
1:47:20
Speaker 1: already under some pressure. Cable television was growing and growing fast.
1:47:27
Speaker 1: Corporate ownership was becoming more focused on quarterly earnings, and
1:47:31
Speaker 1: news divisions had to respond. The traditional public service understanding
1:47:36
Speaker 1: of television news was starting to erode. News divisions were
1:47:39
Speaker 1: still spoken about as the crown jewels of these companies,
1:47:43
Speaker 1: with the ge Cap Cities, Westinghouse, you know those folks.
1:47:49
Speaker 1: And I always have found that phrase a bit revealing
1:47:51
Speaker 1: crown jewel whenever a CEO used it, because if executives
1:47:56
Speaker 1: keep reminding themselves that something is a crown jewel, it
1:47:59
Speaker 1: usually means somebody else in the room is asking whether
1:48:02
Speaker 1: it's earning enough money to justify the space it occupies.
1:48:07
Speaker 1: So you have to use crown jewel as a defense mechanism.
1:48:10
Speaker 1: Bottom line is, the economic economics were changing, the culture
1:48:15
Speaker 1: inside these companies was changing. There was real pressure building financially,
1:48:20
Speaker 1: and then along came OJ and his white Bronco, and
1:48:24
Speaker 1: suddenly executives were staring at evidence that a change already
1:48:29
Speaker 1: underway might be much bigger than they ever imagined. In fact,
1:48:35
Speaker 1: most people think the important moment was the Bronco chase
1:48:39
Speaker 1: nearly one hundred million Americans watched that Bronco chase by
1:48:42
Speaker 1: the way, Okay, that's close to Super Bowl numbers, to
1:48:48
Speaker 1: staggering number. But I've always thought the chase in the
1:48:52
Speaker 1: trial taught two different lessons. The chase proved that people
1:48:56
Speaker 1: would stop what they were doing, and we all did.
1:49:00
Speaker 1: I was, by the way, I was throwing a house
1:49:01
Speaker 1: party that night, my fellow employees at the hotline, a
1:49:05
Speaker 1: bunch of other people, just you know, a bunch of
1:49:07
Speaker 1: us twenty something's getting together. And of course all we
1:49:10
Speaker 1: did was gather around our teddy little television because back
1:49:12
Speaker 1: then we none of us had money and none of
1:49:14
Speaker 1: us had big TVs. But the court room proved that
1:49:20
Speaker 1: people would come back tomorrow and the next day and
1:49:23
Speaker 1: the day after that. And that's where this story changes.
1:49:28
Speaker 1: Court TV had launched only a few years before the
1:49:31
Speaker 1: OJ Simpson trial. The idea seemed pretty niche at the time. Right,
1:49:35
Speaker 1: court proceedings weren't supposed to attract mass audiences. Lawyers arguing motions,
1:49:40
Speaker 1: evidence hearings, procedural disputes, the kind of television that sounded
1:49:45
Speaker 1: interesting to lawyers and almost nobody else. Yet before OJ,
1:49:49
Speaker 1: court TV had already stumbled onto something they had had
1:49:52
Speaker 1: the William Kennedy Smith trial. This is a Kennedy scion
1:49:56
Speaker 1: getting it was a rape trial. There was the Menendez
1:49:59
Speaker 1: brothers that try garnered a lot of interest and happened
1:50:01
Speaker 1: to be televised, And there were a handful of other
1:50:04
Speaker 1: highly publicized cases which demonstrated there was a real audience
1:50:08
Speaker 1: for courtroom television aka true crime. Industry insiders knew there
1:50:14
Speaker 1: was something there. So what OJ change wasn't the lesson.
1:50:19
Speaker 1: What OJ changed was the scale. And then, of course
1:50:24
Speaker 1: Judge Lanceido his decision to allow cameras into the courtroom
1:50:29
Speaker 1: help make that scale possible. Suddenly the entire country could
1:50:33
Speaker 1: watch the story unfold in real time like a daytime
1:50:37
Speaker 1: soap opera. And it wasn't just a verdict. They would watch,
1:50:40
Speaker 1: They'd watch the process, the arguments, the personalities. My goodness,
1:50:45
Speaker 1: these people became household names. Christopher Darden, Marsha Clark, Johnny Cochran,
1:50:51
Speaker 1: you name it. The supposedly boring parts people were watching,
1:50:57
Speaker 1: and people just kept showing up seeing n is rating exploded.
1:51:00
Speaker 1: By the way, they were the only cable news channel
1:51:02
Speaker 1: at the time. Their biggest competition, I guess was Court DV.
1:51:05
Speaker 1: There was no MSNBC, no Fox. The first quarter of
1:51:10
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five became the highest rated quarter in cable
1:51:13
Speaker 1: television history. At that point. The Simpson trial was credited
1:51:19
Speaker 1: with a huge share of that growth, and CNN reportedly
1:51:23
Speaker 1: made extraordinary amounts of money from this coverage. So the
1:51:27
Speaker 1: lesson wasn't new, it was this scale. And once the
1:51:31
Speaker 1: scale of this became undeniable, everybody in the business noticed.
1:51:35
Speaker 1: Competitors noticed, executives noticed, investors noticed. How do we know
1:51:40
Speaker 1: this because within two years, both NBC and Fox launched
1:51:45
Speaker 1: cable channels MSNBC, Fox News. You know, sometimes those the
1:51:52
Speaker 1: launch of Fox and MSNBC get treated as political developments,
1:51:56
Speaker 1: and I never bought that they were business developments first.
1:52:01
Speaker 1: In fact, neither one of them was very partisan when
1:52:03
Speaker 1: they started. There was a reason for that. Nobody launched
1:52:10
Speaker 1: those networks because America was suffering from a shortage of
1:52:13
Speaker 1: news coverage. They launched them because somebody had seen the
1:52:17
Speaker 1: ratings and the financial juggernaut that CNN had become, and
1:52:22
Speaker 1: they saw that revenue and they concluded there was money
1:52:25
Speaker 1: to be made by keeping people engaged, and they wanted
1:52:28
Speaker 1: a piece of it. Fox wanted a piece of it,
1:52:30
Speaker 1: and NBC wanted a piece of it. The key insight, though,
1:52:34
Speaker 1: wasn't that people would watch a big story. That we
1:52:36
Speaker 1: always knew television always knew that. The key insight was
1:52:39
Speaker 1: that people would keep watching, that you could serialize it,
1:52:42
Speaker 1: that a story could become a habit. The news could
1:52:46
Speaker 1: do for a mass audience what soap operas had long
1:52:49
Speaker 1: done for daytime television. It could become a daily ritual,
1:52:54
Speaker 1: It could become a recurring product. The OJ trial wasn't
1:52:58
Speaker 1: simply a story. It became a four with multiple seasons.
1:53:02
Speaker 1: My god, we had a civil trial. It even had
1:53:04
Speaker 1: a spinoff. I'll tell you about the spinoff in a
1:53:07
Speaker 1: few minutes. But once, once it became a format, and
1:53:11
Speaker 1: once the format existed, well guess what, everybody started looking
1:53:15
Speaker 1: for the next version of it. The names would change,
1:53:20
Speaker 1: but the structure would stay remarkably familiar. Monica Lewinsky, the
1:53:25
Speaker 1: Star Report impeachment. How about Schondra Levy? You remember that story?
1:53:32
Speaker 1: In fact, I think the Chondra Levy story is the
1:53:35
Speaker 1: most revealing example of how OJ Simpson changed the news business.
1:53:40
Speaker 1: For those who don't remember, Chondra Levy. Levy was a
1:53:43
Speaker 1: Washington intern whose disappearance and eventual murder became a national
1:53:47
Speaker 1: obsession because of her connection and potential romantic connection to
1:53:53
Speaker 1: a congressman named Gary combat The story dominated cable news
1:53:58
Speaker 1: for months in early two thousand and one. I remember
1:54:01
Speaker 1: living through that period professionally. I was one of the
1:54:05
Speaker 1: editors of The Hotline. In fact, on September tenth, two
1:54:07
Speaker 1: thousand and one, Gary Kannitt and Shondra Levy were among
1:54:10
Speaker 1: the biggest stories in America. Like I said, I was
1:54:13
Speaker 1: working at the Hotline and we were doing analysis like
1:54:17
Speaker 1: about whether the focus on condit was becoming a political
1:54:20
Speaker 1: problem for Democrats both nationally and in the state of California,
1:54:25
Speaker 1: and they need to do something about this. Now, all
1:54:28
Speaker 1: of this might be difficult to process in hindsight because
1:54:30
Speaker 1: of what happened the very next day, right September eleventh,
1:54:35
Speaker 1: instantly erased the story from the national conversation. But for
1:54:39
Speaker 1: months before that, Levy had become one of those stories
1:54:42
Speaker 1: that consumed enormous amounts of national intention for essentral Coast
1:54:49
Speaker 1: California congressman that most people had.
1:54:52
Speaker 2: Never heard of.
1:54:55
Speaker 1: Looking back, I've often thought there's an important distinction there.
1:54:59
Speaker 1: Shondra Levy wasn't necessarily the biggest story in America, but
1:55:03
Speaker 1: it was the story receiving the most attention in America,
1:55:08
Speaker 1: and as we now know, those are not always the
1:55:09
Speaker 1: same thing. Somewhere along the way, media companies began losing
1:55:14
Speaker 1: track of that distinction. By the way, this accelerated in
1:55:18
Speaker 1: the early odds, Terry Schivo, Casey, Anthony balloon Boy, the
1:55:25
Speaker 1: Missing Malaysian Airlines flight. How about the Carnival cruise ship
1:55:31
Speaker 1: that became known nationally as simply the poop Cruise. Different stories,
1:55:35
Speaker 1: different stakes, different subjects, but what they all shared was
1:55:39
Speaker 1: a similar business model. Every morning, producers could ask the
1:55:43
Speaker 1: same question, will people come back tomorrow for this one?
1:55:46
Speaker 1: And if the answer was yes, the story stayed alive
1:55:51
Speaker 1: and you started booking for a segment for that story
1:55:53
Speaker 1: the next day, regardless whether there was actually new information.
1:56:00
Speaker 1: There's another piece of the OJ story that I've often
1:56:02
Speaker 1: wondered about today. Many people remember the trial primarily through
1:56:05
Speaker 1: the lens of race, and eventually race did become central
1:56:09
Speaker 1: to the national conversation about the case. The Mark Furman
1:56:14
Speaker 1: revelations obviously mattered Rodney King, which had taken place just
1:56:19
Speaker 1: two years early, had mattered. Trust in the LAPD or
1:56:23
Speaker 1: lack of trust in the LAPD was a real issue
1:56:25
Speaker 1: and a real story. All of those were real issues,
1:56:29
Speaker 1: but none of them are about OJ Simpson. I've often
1:56:34
Speaker 1: wondered how much of the racial meaning we now attached
1:56:37
Speaker 1: to OJ was a function of how long the story
1:56:40
Speaker 1: remained at the center of national attention. The longer it
1:56:44
Speaker 1: stay there, inevitably would go to race out of search,
1:56:47
Speaker 1: out of this seeking out new storylines. And of course
1:56:50
Speaker 1: that was the defense's case, especially the more it became nationalized.
1:56:55
Speaker 1: The attention itself changed, the story changed the narrative. The
1:56:58
Speaker 1: longer story remains one of us, the more meanings start
1:57:01
Speaker 1: getting attached to it. The murders became a conversation about celebrity.
1:57:06
Speaker 1: Then it was about justice, Then it was about policing.
1:57:09
Speaker 1: Then it was about race, then it was about trust,
1:57:12
Speaker 1: and eventually the trial became a vessel into which Americans
1:57:15
Speaker 1: poured much larger arguments about the country itself into it. Now,
1:57:20
Speaker 1: the coverage didn't create those tensions, but the coverage amplified them,
1:57:24
Speaker 1: and the coverage gave it space for those same debates
1:57:28
Speaker 1: that were needed to happen, and the same debates that
1:57:30
Speaker 1: should have happened in LA about policing got attached to
1:57:34
Speaker 1: the OJ trial, and it nationalized them and it made
1:57:39
Speaker 1: it all impossible to avoid. But if Lancido never televises
1:57:44
Speaker 1: the trial, I'm not one hundred percent convinced race is
1:57:49
Speaker 1: as big a part of this of the OJ story
1:57:52
Speaker 1: as history now has to acknowledge. Now, there's another aspect
1:57:59
Speaker 1: of this story that we can't forget, because what happened
1:58:03
Speaker 1: next is where the story leaves media and enters politics.
1:58:06
Speaker 1: The incentives that emerged from OJ increasingly rewarded attention. Strong
1:58:12
Speaker 1: personalities generated attention, Conflict generated attention, narrative generated attention, Recurring
1:58:20
Speaker 1: characters generated attention. How even the OJ Simpson story produced
1:58:26
Speaker 1: one of the most successful cultural spinoffs imaginable. Forget that
1:58:30
Speaker 1: Jefferson's is the most successful spinoff from all In the family.
1:58:36
Speaker 1: There's a guy named Robert Kardashian who was a supporting
1:58:39
Speaker 1: character in the trial, family friend turned lawyer of O. J.
1:58:42
Speaker 2: Simpsons.
1:58:43
Speaker 1: Two decades later, the Kardashian family had become a media empire.
1:58:48
Speaker 1: And you know, by just uttering those statements, if you
1:58:51
Speaker 1: weren't alive, then you would think all of that was
1:58:52
Speaker 1: a joke that I was creating some parody, but it
1:58:57
Speaker 1: also says something about the direction of American culture. The
1:59:00
Speaker 1: line separating news, celebrity, entertainment, and public life were becoming
1:59:04
Speaker 1: harder to see. So politics adapted as well, and by
1:59:09
Speaker 1: the time Donald Trump entered presidential politics, he understood those
1:59:12
Speaker 1: incentives instinctively. I'm not going to sit here and say
1:59:16
Speaker 1: OJ created Trump. That's too simple, but OJ. But the
1:59:21
Speaker 1: coverage of OJ, the saturation of OJ, the decision by
1:59:26
Speaker 1: news executives to create soap operas to replace news judgment
1:59:34
Speaker 1: created the conditions for Donald Trump. The ability to dominate
1:59:41
Speaker 1: attention became a political asset. So Trump didn't create that system,
1:59:46
Speaker 1: He simply exploited it and mastered it. In fact, the
1:59:51
Speaker 1: industry itself admitted what was happening in real time. Remember
1:59:55
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen during that campaign, when the then CEO
1:59:59
Speaker 1: of CBA, Less Moonvez famously set of Trump's campaign quote,
2:00:04
Speaker 1: it may not be good for America, but it's damn
2:00:06
Speaker 1: good for CBS. It's not a media critic speaking, that's
2:00:12
Speaker 1: a television executive describing the incentive structure. The attention was valuable,
2:00:18
Speaker 1: the civic consequences were almost a secondary consideration, if they
2:00:22
Speaker 1: were a consideration at all. What less Moonvez did in
2:00:26
Speaker 1: that quote was confirm what when I'm telling you the
2:00:32
Speaker 1: OJS story impact really was on the American media. Remember
2:00:39
Speaker 1: the Internet then arrived, social media, smartphones, algorithms. A lot
2:00:43
Speaker 1: of people tell this story as if Facebook invented the
2:00:46
Speaker 1: attention economy, Twitter or TikTok, But I don't think that's right.
2:00:51
Speaker 1: Those technologies simply accelerated something that had already existed. Right,
2:00:57
Speaker 1: Cable news figured out the attention economy. Big tech just
2:01:02
Speaker 1: industrialized it. The algorithm didn't invent the habit. The algorithm
2:01:07
Speaker 1: inherited the habit. And the algorithm didn't create the attention economy.
2:01:12
Speaker 1: It automated behaviors. Media companies had already spent decades cultivating.
2:01:19
Speaker 1: Find what keeps people watching, find what keeps people clicking,
2:01:23
Speaker 1: find what keeps people engaged, then give them more of
2:01:27
Speaker 1: it bread and circus. Now, I'm not sure this toothpaste
2:01:32
Speaker 1: goes back in the two.
2:01:33
Speaker 2: We know this.
2:01:34
Speaker 1: The economics are very powerful, the technology is deeply embedded,
2:01:38
Speaker 1: the incentives are everywhere. But if we're serious about rebuilding
2:01:43
Speaker 1: trust in media and in journalism, trust in politics, in
2:01:46
Speaker 1: our shared culture. We have to understand how we got here.
2:01:50
Speaker 1: The intention economy didn't suddenly arrive with social media. The
2:01:55
Speaker 1: foundations were late earlier, somewhere between a white bronco on
2:02:00
Speaker 1: a Los Angeles Freeway going thirty five miles an hour
2:02:03
Speaker 1: and a courtroom people couldn't take their eyes off of
2:02:07
Speaker 1: the news business learned a lot from those events. They
2:02:11
Speaker 1: weren't good lessons, but what they learned is people will
2:02:14
Speaker 1: come back tomorrow. And once an industry learns that lesson,
2:02:20
Speaker 1: it's like a subscription effect, right, it starts building itself
2:02:23
Speaker 1: around it. The white Bronco became the symbol. The business
2:02:27
Speaker 1: model was the real story. In thirty years later, we
2:02:30
Speaker 1: are living the consequences of that obsession. Look, I have often,
2:02:40
Speaker 1: I've been arguing this for a long time. Nothing changed
2:02:45
Speaker 1: the news business more than O. J. Simpson how we
2:02:53
Speaker 1: and I know just ran about it and being an
2:02:55
Speaker 1: old man yelling and a cloud isn't going to bring
2:02:57
Speaker 1: us back to any previous era. But if we're at
2:03:02
Speaker 1: least our eyes are wide open on this, then you know,
2:03:07
Speaker 1: hopefully we can take serious issues and figure out how
2:03:10
Speaker 1: to make them interesting. In the attention economy, which is
2:03:14
Speaker 1: what we're trying to do right here at the Chuck Podcast.
2:03:22
Speaker 1: Ask Chuck, all right, let's do a little ass Chuck.
2:03:27
Speaker 1: First question comes from Travis Charlotte, Virginian, and he rights, Hey,
2:03:30
Speaker 1: why are vote counts released at all prior to the
2:03:32
Speaker 1: count being completed? What if we didn't release partial results
2:03:35
Speaker 1: as the count progressed and waited until the outcome was known.
2:03:38
Speaker 1: I know that you'd have to find something else to
2:03:39
Speaker 1: do with your Tuesday evenings, but it seems like it
2:03:41
Speaker 1: would alleviate a lot of fear mongering over non existent
2:03:44
Speaker 1: vote tampering. Well, here's why I don't. I mean, I
2:03:51
Speaker 1: hear what you're saying, and I feel this way about
2:03:53
Speaker 1: exit poles, right. I hate the partial release of exit
2:03:56
Speaker 1: poles because it's ridiculous the news media. I think, do
2:04:05
Speaker 1: you really want to trust the government to tell you, well,
2:04:08
Speaker 1: we've kind of the votes and here the results. I
2:04:12
Speaker 1: think that wouldn't instill the trust you think it would.
2:04:16
Speaker 1: I think just the opposite. I think the I mean,
2:04:19
Speaker 1: I take care. Look, it's the amount of time California
2:04:23
Speaker 1: takes to count and the fact that it's you know,
2:04:26
Speaker 1: days and all of this stuff, and is what allows
2:04:30
Speaker 1: for this vacuum to be filled this way. But you know,
2:04:38
Speaker 1: I don't I think the news media should be the
2:04:40
Speaker 1: one getting these vote counts before and you want I
2:04:46
Speaker 1: think that intermediary there just to make sure you don't.
2:04:50
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's sometimes there's reporting mistakes that
2:04:54
Speaker 1: I mean, famously in Florida in two thousand, famously the
2:05:01
Speaker 1: you know, there was a fifty thousand vote error in
2:05:05
Speaker 1: one county, right, which is what costs, which is why
2:05:08
Speaker 1: the call got pulled from Gore at the time. But
2:05:14
Speaker 1: in some ways, having you know, it's the worst thing
2:05:18
Speaker 1: than no vote count is one vote count. I don't
2:05:22
Speaker 1: think it's having multiple entities trying to trying to count
2:05:25
Speaker 1: the vote and the fact that you have decision to
2:05:27
Speaker 1: ask HQ and the Associated press and the official vote
2:05:31
Speaker 1: count all happening. I think that that essentially creates the
2:05:36
Speaker 1: opportunity for more accuracy at the end of the day,
2:05:41
Speaker 1: not less. I mean, I understand, like I said, I
2:05:44
Speaker 1: understand what you're saying, that maybe the that the process
2:05:49
Speaker 1: of trying to count this and you know, especially the
2:05:54
Speaker 1: the the lengthy amount, the lengthyness of the California count
2:06:01
Speaker 1: frustrates folks. I think that that would make things seem
2:06:08
Speaker 1: opeg and I think you would actually create more distrust
2:06:11
Speaker 1: with the system with that, I think people would assume
2:06:14
Speaker 1: even more conspiracies. Oh, they're holding the vote count because
2:06:16
Speaker 1: they don't like the result, or they're doing that. You know.
2:06:19
Speaker 1: So I understand the spirit with what you're asking, But
2:06:25
Speaker 1: this is why I think, like, let's let's let's just
2:06:31
Speaker 1: put some more resources to count this, to count this
2:06:33
Speaker 1: stuff faster. All right, Dale in Atlanta rights, So I
2:06:38
Speaker 1: think Rick Jackson thinks he's got this ray Son up.
2:06:40
Speaker 1: Why else would his campaign have bought no less than
2:06:42
Speaker 1: thirty spots on the Tony Awards telecast. Seeing his ad
2:06:46
Speaker 1: run right after the performances from Cats, the Jellicle ball
2:06:50
Speaker 1: had us all saying he's clearly got money to burn
2:06:52
Speaker 1: Dale in Atlanta. Well, it's interesting though, when look, Rick Jackson,
2:06:56
Speaker 1: I love a little bit of snark in your question
2:06:59
Speaker 1: because you're not quite sure who's watching the Tony Awards
2:07:03
Speaker 1: that's probably voting. I think you're saying you are stereotyping
2:07:08
Speaker 1: a Tony Award viewer, is what you're doing, right, Dale,
2:07:11
Speaker 1: I hear you. I'm a little counter here. There's another
2:07:18
Speaker 1: audience of that Broadway shows that may watch the Tony Awards,
2:07:21
Speaker 1: that may be a little bit older. Older voters are
2:07:24
Speaker 1: the most reliable voters that show up at the polls. Right, So,
2:07:29
Speaker 1: but yes, Rick Jackson has money to burn, but he
2:07:32
Speaker 1: kind of has to spend it all. Remember he's He's
2:07:35
Speaker 1: doesn't have Trump's endorsement. In fact, there's a good time
2:07:40
Speaker 1: to talk about Trump's endorsements for these Tuesday runoffs. And
2:07:43
Speaker 1: yes there'll be d d HQ is going to have
2:07:46
Speaker 1: livestream coverage of this. Solisa Jeffreys Kelly, I am, I am.
2:07:53
Speaker 1: I am traveling that day and going to make every
2:07:55
Speaker 1: effort to make an appearance. But that is no promises
2:07:58
Speaker 1: on that one. But I will say this Trump right, Trump,
2:08:05
Speaker 1: Trump's endorse Burt Jones. So I think Jackson kind of
2:08:08
Speaker 1: has to overspend and I think it's going to work.
2:08:11
Speaker 1: By the way, speaking of Trump, he endorsed Mike Collins,
2:08:13
Speaker 1: as we all expected, over Derek Dooley, since Derek Dooley
2:08:15
Speaker 1: this is in the Senate race, since dark Dooley was
2:08:17
Speaker 1: the candidate. And he said that the reason he decided
2:08:21
Speaker 1: to Duley wasn't a good candidate is that Dooley had
2:08:23
Speaker 1: the gall to has you know, has had the position
2:08:27
Speaker 1: that somehow Donald Trump did not win the twenty twenty election. Well,
2:08:30
Speaker 1: as you know, Donald Trump did not win the twenty
2:08:32
Speaker 1: twenty election. Joe Biden won the twenty twenty election. Joe
2:08:35
Speaker 1: Biden was inaugurated as president. Joe Biden served for he
2:08:37
Speaker 1: was as president. The only reason Donald Trump is president
2:08:39
Speaker 1: today is because he lost the twenty twenty election. Had
2:08:41
Speaker 1: he won the twenty twenty election, he wouldn't be president today.
2:08:46
Speaker 1: So I don't know what world Donald Trump lives. In
2:08:49
Speaker 1: the fact that he keeps trying to gaslight this issue
2:08:53
Speaker 1: over and over, I really think does enormous damage because
2:08:56
Speaker 1: one thing, you one thing I think we've learned, the
2:08:59
Speaker 1: Trump endorsement matters in Republican primaries in red states, Hunt
2:09:03
Speaker 1: Hart stop. The Trump endorsement is helpful to Republicans in
2:09:08
Speaker 1: swing states and in bluestates, but the Trump endorsement in
2:09:14
Speaker 1: boomerang in general elections. Just look at Trump's performance in
2:09:19
Speaker 1: swing states. His candidate for North Carolina governor, Mark Robinson
2:09:23
Speaker 1: was a disaster. His candidate for Pennsylvania governor in twenty
2:09:28
Speaker 1: twenty two, Mastriano disaster his candidate. Now he did get
2:09:32
Speaker 1: you know, and David McCormick, you could somehow say he
2:09:35
Speaker 1: endorsed him, but he did endorse him. The first time
2:09:36
Speaker 1: McCormick run, he endorsed doctor Oz. That didn't work. Donald
2:09:40
Speaker 1: Trump's track record his endorsed candidates in swing states have
2:09:44
Speaker 1: not gone well. Right, He's got lost a lot in Georgia. Right,
2:09:50
Speaker 1: He's gotten his butt handed to him in Georgia multiple times.
2:09:54
Speaker 1: He doesn't do well in the state of Arizona, he
2:09:56
Speaker 1: doesn't do well in the state of Wisconsin. He doesn't
2:10:00
Speaker 1: do well in any of the seven battleground states. So
2:10:07
Speaker 1: I think, look, I think Rick Jackson. I think if
2:10:10
Speaker 1: Rick Jackson wins the Republican runoff, he's going to be
2:10:13
Speaker 1: the next governor. And if Rick Jackson doesn't win that runoff,
2:10:18
Speaker 1: Keisha Lance Bottoms is going to be the next governor.
2:10:20
Speaker 1: I do not think. I think Trump endorsements in swing states,
2:10:23
Speaker 1: particularly in twenty twenty six, are not going to be helpful.
2:10:28
Speaker 1: They're more likely to be be hurtful. So ask for
2:10:32
Speaker 1: Rick Jackson, who doesn't have the Trump endorsement, has gobs
2:10:35
Speaker 1: of money. He probably has to spend this money to
2:10:38
Speaker 1: try to overcome the Trump endorsement of Jones because he
2:10:41
Speaker 1: has got to have a larger runoff turnout. The smaller
2:10:44
Speaker 1: the runoff turnout is, the better it is for a
2:10:47
Speaker 1: Trump endorsed candidate. The larger runoff turnout is might benefit
2:10:51
Speaker 1: Jackson and that's what he's counting on. Next question comes
2:10:55
Speaker 1: from Zach from Cleveland and he and Zach, I need
2:10:59
Speaker 1: to congratulate you. You have done it because I'm reading
2:11:02
Speaker 1: your question and you know what that means. You are
2:11:04
Speaker 1: now officially in the five timers club. We are going
2:11:07
Speaker 1: to get some We're gonna you gotta tell me do
2:11:10
Speaker 1: you want to mug? I'd love to know from all
2:11:12
Speaker 1: of our five timers here, which means we got to
2:11:14
Speaker 1: start keeping tracking you guys. Do you want to mug
2:11:17
Speaker 1: a shirt or a hat? Which merch would you prefer?
2:11:20
Speaker 1: We're working on merch here. We're in the middle of negotiating.
2:11:23
Speaker 1: You know how we're going to do this. So and
2:11:26
Speaker 1: if you're a merchandiser and you've got you want to
2:11:29
Speaker 1: you want to throw some bids our way. We're all ears,
2:11:32
Speaker 1: but would love to know. Zach would love your vote.
2:11:35
Speaker 1: Would you for a hat? A mug a T shirt. Anyway,
2:11:40
Speaker 1: the question is I saw the House vote to limit
2:11:42
Speaker 1: Trump's war powers. Could could that actually give him an
2:11:44
Speaker 1: off ramp from the conflict or am I reading too
2:11:46
Speaker 1: much into it? Cures for your take, keep doing your thing,
2:11:48
Speaker 1: Appreciate the show, well, obviously, zactly. Look, there's one of
2:11:53
Speaker 1: the reasons why Trump is doing whatever it takes to
2:11:56
Speaker 1: cut a deal with a Ron at this point is
2:11:57
Speaker 1: because this thing is politically getting harder and harder for him.
2:12:01
Speaker 1: In fact, one of the more interesting you know, it's funny.
2:12:05
Speaker 1: He's going to have his Iran hawks who are in
2:12:08
Speaker 1: his corner really upset about this deal. You can already
2:12:11
Speaker 1: see it. Mark Levin has like lost his mind. Lindsey
2:12:14
Speaker 1: Graham went out of his way to talk about that.
2:12:17
Speaker 1: You know, for this deal to succeed, JD. Vance is
2:12:20
Speaker 1: going to have to do some good negotiating. It's like
2:12:22
Speaker 1: he's already trying to put this on JD. Vance basically
2:12:27
Speaker 1: saying it's the Vance wing of the Republican Party. That
2:12:29
Speaker 1: is that is, that is the doves here, and they're
2:12:32
Speaker 1: the ones that are pushing in the negotiation and all
2:12:34
Speaker 1: of this. So you're seeing you're seeing some folks who
2:12:38
Speaker 1: can't ever bring themselves to criticize Trump have to find
2:12:41
Speaker 1: other ways to criticize Trump without criticizing Trump, and sort
2:12:44
Speaker 1: of targeting Jadie Vance, which what Lindsay Graham is doing
2:12:47
Speaker 1: is going to be one way to do that. But
2:12:49
Speaker 1: the point is is that this was becoming politically and
2:12:51
Speaker 1: politically harder and harder all the time for him. So
2:12:54
Speaker 1: that's why I had to take whatever off ramp. I mean,
2:12:57
Speaker 1: he was just begging, begging for off rams. And by
2:13:01
Speaker 1: the way, the Iranians this, this is why this is
2:13:04
Speaker 1: no deal to celebrate. We're just he didn't get a deal.
2:13:09
Speaker 1: He got a promisory note, and they're gonna sign a
2:13:12
Speaker 1: promisory note and he's essentially just bought more time. And
2:13:18
Speaker 1: I know he says, Oh, if they don't sign a deal,
2:13:20
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back to bombing. Okay, they've heard you
2:13:24
Speaker 1: say that some thirty thirty times in the last thirty days,
2:13:28
Speaker 1: and you may have backed up your words twice. Your
2:13:32
Speaker 1: track record isn't that great on this, and the Iranians
2:13:36
Speaker 1: are going to keep calling your bluff and that's gonna
2:13:38
Speaker 1: be uncomfortable. Next question comes from Drew and he believes
2:13:43
Speaker 1: this is getting him into the five timers club. We're gonna,
2:13:45
Speaker 1: We're gonna, We're gonna check. We're gonna check with the
2:13:47
Speaker 1: committee on this. Drew to be doubly curious. But again,
2:13:53
Speaker 1: I might as well as I sack preference hat mug shirt.
2:13:58
Speaker 1: You're right, I'm curious. Why do you think so many
2:14:00
Speaker 1: leaders from older generations continue to hold onto power rather
2:14:03
Speaker 1: than stepping aside to the next generation. Is it a
2:14:06
Speaker 1: sense of responsibility to finish the job or something broader
2:14:09
Speaker 1: about how those generations of your leadership, Thanks for all
2:14:11
Speaker 1: you do. True, I'm sort of I think it's more
2:14:15
Speaker 1: basic than that. By the way, this is the week
2:14:17
Speaker 1: that we're beginning this weird phenomenon in our history where
2:14:24
Speaker 1: three of our last four presidents were all born in
2:14:26
Speaker 1: the summer of nineteen forty six, and no, June fourteenth
2:14:30
Speaker 1: isn't technically summer, but basically Donald Trump was born in
2:14:33
Speaker 1: June of forty six, George W. Bush was born in
2:14:37
Speaker 1: July of forty six, and Bill Clinton was born in
2:14:39
Speaker 1: August of forty six the Baby Boomers. By the way,
2:14:44
Speaker 1: my friend John Harris over Political is an excellent piece
2:14:46
Speaker 1: about all this, about how but you know, it's sort
2:14:51
Speaker 1: of you know, it's not just like a conventional Boomer
2:14:55
Speaker 1: trashing session. And I have that coming up with my
2:14:57
Speaker 1: friend Paul Taylor, longtime Watchington Post reporter, who's got a
2:15:00
Speaker 1: whole book about, you know, how the Boomers broke broke
2:15:04
Speaker 1: our politics. But anyway, it's a great piece by Harris.
2:15:09
Speaker 1: You should take a look. So I look at it
2:15:12
Speaker 1: through the prism of Bear Bryant. For those of you
2:15:16
Speaker 1: that don't know who Bear Bryant was. Before there was
2:15:18
Speaker 1: Nick Saban and Alabama football, there was Bear Bryan Alabama football.
2:15:23
Speaker 1: Before they were making statues of Nick Saban, they were
2:15:25
Speaker 1: making statues of Bar Bryant. Paul was his first name,
2:15:28
Speaker 1: Paul Barbrian Bear was his nickname. In December fifteenth, nineteen
2:15:34
Speaker 1: eighty two, at the age of sixty nine, Bear Bryant
2:15:37
Speaker 1: officially announced that he was stepping down as head coach
2:15:40
Speaker 1: of the University of Alabama after twenty five seasons, and
2:15:44
Speaker 1: he famously quipped one time that if he stopped coaching,
2:15:47
Speaker 1: he quote probably croaking a week. December twenty ninth, nineteen
2:15:52
Speaker 1: eighty two, Bear coaches his final game at the Liberty
2:15:55
Speaker 1: Bowl in Memphis, Tennessee. By the way, the Crimson had
2:15:58
Speaker 1: won that game twenty one fifteen, and it secured Brian's
2:16:01
Speaker 1: three hundred and twenty third and final career victory. January
2:16:07
Speaker 1: twenty fifth, nineteen eighty three, Brian begins experiencing chest pains.
2:16:11
Speaker 1: He's admitted to a hospital that evening, and on January
2:16:14
Speaker 1: twenty sixth, twenty eight days after coaching his final football game,
2:16:18
Speaker 1: Bryant suffers a massive fatal heart attack and passes away.
2:16:26
Speaker 1: The older you get, the more you know about stories
2:16:30
Speaker 1: like that. By the way, the Joe Paterno story was
2:16:33
Speaker 1: very similar that the minute you walk away from something
2:16:39
Speaker 1: and you lose your purpose, that if you don't have purpose,
2:16:42
Speaker 1: you can deteriorate quickly. Ruth Bader Ginsburg was famously hung
2:16:49
Speaker 1: on to her Supreme Court seat because apparently she was
2:16:52
Speaker 1: very close friends with Sandrada O'Connor, who decided to retire
2:16:55
Speaker 1: to take care of her husband who was beginning to
2:16:57
Speaker 1: decline due to Alzheimer's, and she regretted it, and she
2:17:03
Speaker 1: would share those regret all the time with her friends
2:17:06
Speaker 1: on the Court, including Justice Skinsberg. So I think it's
2:17:11
Speaker 1: a very personal reason. I think that's the you know.
2:17:14
Speaker 1: I think. Look, I joke sometimes I say, you know,
2:17:18
Speaker 1: the older I get, especially right now, I always say
2:17:20
Speaker 1: in the fifties, I said, we have peak wisdom in
2:17:22
Speaker 1: our fifties, and I you know, And it's pretty arrogant
2:17:26
Speaker 1: of me of saying this, and pretty self centeredive me
2:17:28
Speaker 1: to say this, right, But I sort of believe it. Right,
2:17:30
Speaker 1: I've had enough life lessons that I feel like I
2:17:33
Speaker 1: know what they are enough perspective. But I'm not yet
2:17:36
Speaker 1: so cynical that I'm not I'm you know, I don't
2:17:40
Speaker 1: want any change at all, right, I just think it's
2:17:42
Speaker 1: a you know, But I do think the older you get,
2:17:48
Speaker 1: the more sure of how wise you are, and you
2:17:52
Speaker 1: have all this experience and how you know. You know,
2:17:55
Speaker 1: these younger folks are well meaning, but they have no
2:17:57
Speaker 1: idea what they're doing, and so it's it is a
2:18:01
Speaker 1: little bit of arrogance, but there is some truth to
2:18:07
Speaker 1: the wisdom that you want to keep around. So there's
2:18:11
Speaker 1: you know, there's probably a happy medium there. But I
2:18:14
Speaker 1: think it's really that. I think it's I think it's
2:18:17
Speaker 1: fear of I think it's fear of death. I think
2:18:22
Speaker 1: it's fear of no longer having purpose, fear of deterioration,
2:18:28
Speaker 1: losing your self worth. I think that's what this is about,
2:18:33
Speaker 1: pure and simple, and you have these and there's just
2:18:36
Speaker 1: enough examples, right, you know. I use the Brian example
2:18:39
Speaker 1: because I think it I think it has. By the way,
2:18:41
Speaker 1: sixty nine and nineteen eighty two was equivalent of being
2:18:43
Speaker 1: seventy nine or even eighty nine today for what it's worth.
2:18:49
Speaker 1: But that's I think it's I think it's that, I
2:18:53
Speaker 1: really think. I think it's fear that once your once
2:18:57
Speaker 1: your purpose is gone, that that's it. You know that
2:19:03
Speaker 1: if you don't have a purpose, that suddenly the grim
2:19:07
Speaker 1: Reaper is going to come for you. So or if
2:19:12
Speaker 1: not that that you lose your edge, you know, you
2:19:16
Speaker 1: lose your relevancy, and that can be painful as well.
2:19:24
Speaker 1: Last question comes from who we got here, Chrissy, and
2:19:31
Speaker 1: I love this. I know he's writing from Washington State,
2:19:34
Speaker 1: but he gets very specific from Washington's sixth congressional district.
2:19:37
Speaker 1: He goes, hey, really enjoy your recent discussions, especially in
2:19:40
Speaker 1: the Pew Political Typology. Do you think those groupings are
2:19:43
Speaker 1: truly meaningful or could results be skewed Since people can
2:19:46
Speaker 1: often tell how their answers place them. That's interesting you
2:19:49
Speaker 1: say that. Also curious if you've looked at the recent
2:19:52
Speaker 1: congressional hearing on college sports, does it signal more bipartisan
2:19:55
Speaker 1: cooperation or sports just a rare reception. Psgo Koob's the
2:20:00
Speaker 1: I feel like the PAC twelve should have dropped the
2:20:01
Speaker 1: number when they relaunched. Yeah, that's that's a fair statement.
2:20:06
Speaker 1: Most importantly, Chris, are you the guy that waves the
2:20:09
Speaker 1: flag at game day with the Washington Cougar flag. I
2:20:13
Speaker 1: think it's one of the it's one of my it's
2:20:15
Speaker 1: one of it's one of my favorite. I think it's
2:20:18
Speaker 1: I there's I always recognize that that logo more than
2:20:22
Speaker 1: any other than beyond the ones that that that I
2:20:26
Speaker 1: care about, because of that game day presence. I just
2:20:29
Speaker 1: I just love that, and I love the dedication of
2:20:31
Speaker 1: that fan. Uh And I think it's a group of
2:20:33
Speaker 1: fans that keep that keep that tradition alive. No, I
2:20:38
Speaker 1: think the reason you have bipartisanship on this one is
2:20:41
Speaker 1: is that the the dividing lines in this college sports
2:20:44
Speaker 1: bill are not left right. They're all regional right, and
2:20:48
Speaker 1: it's they're big, small and and sort of you know,
2:20:51
Speaker 1: so you're going to have you know, you're going to
2:20:54
Speaker 1: have some interesting political partnerships here because there are big
2:21:01
Speaker 1: college football entities in Texas. There's a big program in Washington,
2:21:06
Speaker 1: the University of Washington, there's big pro you know, there's
2:21:09
Speaker 1: wherever the Big ten is and wherever the SEC is,
2:21:11
Speaker 1: wherever the Big twelve is, where the ACC is. Right,
2:21:14
Speaker 1: You're just you know, you have competing interests that I
2:21:19
Speaker 1: think are more divided along conference lines, then they're going
2:21:24
Speaker 1: to be on political lines. And so that's why I
2:21:25
Speaker 1: think you have what looks like bipartisanship, which is really
2:21:30
Speaker 1: sort of divided along you know, you may have bipartisan
2:21:33
Speaker 1: pairs of senators agreeing on something that both the Big
2:21:37
Speaker 1: ten and the SEC want, right, So I think I
2:21:41
Speaker 1: think there's more there. Look, I'm pretty pessimistic on this
2:21:45
Speaker 1: bill going anywhere. I think at the end of the day,
2:21:50
Speaker 1: it feels like we got to hit you know, really,
2:21:52
Speaker 1: before rules of the road can be drawn up, you're
2:21:54
Speaker 1: gonna have to have collective bargaining because who is who's
2:21:58
Speaker 1: going to negotiate with the players, And if you don't
2:22:00
Speaker 1: have if the players can't negotiate together as an entity,
2:22:03
Speaker 1: and they can't do it without collective bargaining. Then I'm
2:22:05
Speaker 1: not sure how you're going to make this, make any
2:22:08
Speaker 1: sort of blueprint for running college sports that doesn't run
2:22:12
Speaker 1: into a problem that somehow it is the you know
2:22:14
Speaker 1: that basically the management gets to draw them right the rules,
2:22:21
Speaker 1: and the players just get stuck with whatever the rules
2:22:24
Speaker 1: are that they have no say in this. So I
2:22:26
Speaker 1: I just I don't see how they can come up
2:22:30
Speaker 1: with any significant legislation that works without the players first
2:22:39
Speaker 1: going the collective bargaining around and then I think you
2:22:42
Speaker 1: can get some then Congress can weigh in, and then
2:22:44
Speaker 1: you can see the landscape. But I think collective bargaining
2:22:48
Speaker 1: has to come first before anything, before anything can happen there,
2:22:55
Speaker 1: all right? And with that, I'll be I want to
2:22:59
Speaker 1: I'll be a little transparent here. I'm doing a lot
2:23:02
Speaker 1: of travel. I'm shifting my home base for a few
2:23:05
Speaker 1: weeks to some other areas. I'm going back and forth.
2:23:09
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lot of fun, don't get me wrong.
2:23:12
Speaker 1: But it may mean I won't have two to three
2:23:19
Speaker 1: hours worth of programming each time we post for the
2:23:22
Speaker 1: Chuck Podcast. It might be down to about ninety minutes
2:23:25
Speaker 1: to two hours just to keep it, keep it a
2:23:28
Speaker 1: little tight here and keep my travel abilities a bit
2:23:32
Speaker 1: more flexible. Listen, I appreciate all the supports you've given me.
2:23:35
Speaker 1: We were growing like crazy, both with subscribers anecdotal. Its
2:23:40
Speaker 1: fun to run into people who don't talk about I
2:23:45
Speaker 1: wish you want to meet the press, and instead and
2:23:46
Speaker 1: now say I love what you're doing here. That tells
2:23:50
Speaker 1: me and I know what you listeners that are helping
2:23:51
Speaker 1: to spread the word, and I appreciate it. So keep
2:23:53
Speaker 1: spreading the word, keep liking, keep subscribing, and I'll see
2:23:57
Speaker 1: in twenty four hours. Hey,