Latest / Narcisist Psychology / He Stole Her Story: How a Mentor Erased a Career
Transcript
- 0:03Speaker 1: On a Tuesday morning in July of two thoy nineteen,
- 0:07Speaker 1: a retired postal supervisor named Kimberly Whitley stopped at the
- 0:11Speaker 1: base of a split oak behind Ardenmore University's Humanities building.
- 0:16Speaker 2: She was birding.
- 0:17Speaker 1: She was not looking for evidence, but eight feet up,
- 0:21Speaker 1: wedged into the fork of the tree was a blue
- 0:23Speaker 1: bound manuscript, two hundred forty pages, the work of fourteen months,
- 0:28Speaker 1: and its title page listed one name as author. The
- 0:32Speaker 1: stamp on the spine listed another. That contradiction would eventually
- 0:36Speaker 1: unravel four years of carefully constructed control. This is the
- 0:40Speaker 1: story of Jennifer Romano, a forty four year old associate
- 0:44Speaker 1: professor of sociology whose work was taken from her so
- 0:47Speaker 1: gradually and so deliberately that by the time she recognized
- 0:51Speaker 1: what had happened, she had already learned to doubt her
- 0:55Speaker 1: own memory. And it is the story of how Richard Long,
- 0:59Speaker 1: a full professor with nineteen years at arden Moore and
- 1:02Speaker 1: a reputation built on other people's trust, dismantled her professional
- 1:06Speaker 1: reality one small adjustment at a time. Jennifer Romano came
- 1:11Speaker 1: to arden Moore University six years before the events of
- 1:14Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. She was not new to academic life, but
- 1:18Speaker 1: she was new to this institution, and that distinction matters.
- 1:22Speaker 1: A new arrival at a research university occupies a specific
- 1:26Speaker 1: and vulnerable position. She has her work, her ideas, her record,
- 1:31Speaker 1: and she has no established network to confirm any of it.
- 1:36Speaker 1: She relies on the people around her to reflect her
- 1:39Speaker 1: standing back to her accurately. Romano was building something real.
- 1:44Speaker 1: Her research focused on institutional sociology, the way organizations shape
- 1:49Speaker 1: the people inside them, often without those people noticing. The
- 1:53Speaker 1: irony of that focus, given what was coming is the
- 1:56Speaker 1: kind of detail that stays with you. By twenty fifteen,
- 2:01Speaker 1: Romano had been at Ardenmore long enough to be considered
- 2:04Speaker 1: for a formal mentorship assignment. The department paired her with
- 2:08Speaker 1: Richard Long. On paper, it was an ideal match. Long
- 2:13Speaker 1: had nineteen years at the institution. He knew the university press,
- 2:17Speaker 1: the grand committees, the department chair. He had the relationships
- 2:21Speaker 1: that Romano, as an associate professor still working toward promotion,
- 2:25Speaker 1: genuinely needed. According to accounts from colleagues, he was warm, precise,
- 2:30Speaker 1: and professionally generous. He introduced Romano at conferences. He praised
- 2:35Speaker 1: her work. In faculty meetings. He co authored a conference
- 2:38Speaker 1: paper with her, a paper that colleagues later described as
- 2:42Speaker 1: largely Romano's thinking. Though Long's name appeared first on the byeline,
- 2:47Speaker 1: that detail seemed unremarkable at the time. The year two
- 2:51Speaker 1: thousand fifteen into twenty sixteen looked from the outside like
- 2:56Speaker 1: a productive collaboration. Romano was visible in ways she had
- 3:00Speaker 1: not been before. Long made sure of it. But something
- 3:04Speaker 1: else was happening beneath that visibility, something that would only
- 3:08Speaker 1: become legible much later. Long was also learning how Romano worked.
- 3:12Speaker 1: He was learning her rhythms, her insecurities, her professional aspirations.
- 3:17Speaker 1: He was learning in precise detail what she most needed
- 3:21Speaker 1: to hear and who she most needed to hear it from.
- 3:24Speaker 1: By twenty seventeen, the texture of the mentorship had changed.
- 3:29Speaker 1: Romano's access to outside professional feedback began to narrow. Long
- 3:34Speaker 1: filtered comments from reviewers. He positioned himself as the authoritative
- 3:38Speaker 1: interpreter of how the department, the press, and the broader field.
- 3:42Speaker 2: Perceived her work.
- 3:43Speaker 1: Colleagues who had known Romano as direct and confident began
- 3:48Speaker 1: to notice something different. She second guessed her phrasing and meetings.
- 3:52Speaker 1: She deferred to Long on questions that had previously been
- 3:55Speaker 1: hers to answer. Her Graduate students Marcus Rivera and Priyanath
- 4:00Speaker 1: observed the shift, neither had a framework for naming it
- 4:03Speaker 1: at the time. In fall of two thousand eighteen, Romano
- 4:07Speaker 1: stood before a faculty gathering and apologized. She apologized for,
- 4:11Speaker 1: as the record reflects, creating confusion around her seminar design,
- 4:16Speaker 1: a seminar that colleagues and students had not found confusing.
- 4:20Speaker 1: The apology was not demanded. It was offered later in
- 4:24Speaker 1: the context of the criminal case. Therapist Donna Brooks would
- 4:27Speaker 1: describe this moment as evidence of a successful replacement of
- 4:31Speaker 1: Romano's self assessment with Long's version. Romano had stopped trusting
- 4:36Speaker 1: her own read of the room. She had by then
- 4:39Speaker 1: been working on the monograph for nearly a year. The
- 4:42Speaker 1: manuscript was the center of everything. Two hundred forty pages
- 4:46Speaker 1: of original sociological research, the work most likely to secure
- 4:51Speaker 1: her promotion, the argument she had been building across her
- 4:55Speaker 1: entire time at Ardenmoor. She completed it in March of
- 4:59Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen. It represented fourteen months of documented work.
- 5:04Speaker 1: It was by any measure, pers Ramano trusted Long with it.
- 5:09Speaker 1: The mentorship structure gave him legitimate access to her professional materials.
- 5:15Speaker 1: That access was, as investigators would later note, the door
- 5:19Speaker 1: that opened inward, and Long had been standing at it
- 5:22Speaker 1: for years. What happened next happened fast, and Romano did
- 5:26Speaker 1: not see it coming. But a question her friend, Susan Ellery,
- 5:30Speaker 1: asked her in late May of twenty nineteen, had already
- 5:34Speaker 1: planted a splinter of doubt. Ellery asked Romano when she
- 5:37Speaker 1: had last made a significant professional decision that Long had
- 5:41Speaker 1: not already known about in advance.
- 5:44Speaker 2: Romano could not answer.
- 5:46Speaker 1: She would not know why that question mattered so much
- 5:49Speaker 1: until the summer, when a woman with binoculars looked up
- 5:53Speaker 1: into a split oak and found something that should never
- 5:56Speaker 1: have been there. Kimberly Whitley was not looking for anything
- 5:59Speaker 1: in partet picular. On the morning of July eleventh, twenty nineteen.
- 6:04Speaker 2: She was a.
- 6:05Speaker 1: Retired postal supervisor. She birded Stop seven on Tuesdays and Saturdays.
- 6:13Speaker 1: She kept a log. That morning, she looked up into
- 6:16Speaker 1: the split oak behind the Humanities Building and saw something
- 6:19Speaker 1: blue wedged about eight feet off the ground in the
- 6:22Speaker 1: fork of the trunk. She documented it before she touched it.
- 6:26Speaker 1: That was her habit. The object was a bound manuscript
- 6:29Speaker 1: two hundred forty pages, blue doctoral cover, the kind the
- 6:34Speaker 1: arden wore bindary used for official academic documents. The title
- 6:38Speaker 1: page listed one name as author. A red institutional stamp
- 6:43Speaker 1: on the interior listed a second name as the document's
- 6:46Speaker 1: registered owner. Those two names did not match. That gap
- 6:51Speaker 1: between the name on the title page and the name
- 6:54Speaker 1: on the stamp was the first concrete image investigators had
- 6:57Speaker 1: to work with, and it would take weeks before they
- 7:00Speaker 1: understood how those two names had been separated. What they
- 7:04Speaker 1: found when they traced the manuscript back to the bindery
- 7:07Speaker 1: was a transaction record. On a date in April of
- 7:10Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen, Richard Long had brought a bound manuscript
- 7:14Speaker 1: to Owen Tate, the university's bindery technician. Long's account delivered
- 7:19Speaker 1: that day was that a coffee spill had damaged to
- 7:22Speaker 1: the original binding. He presented an authorization form bearing the
- 7:27Speaker 1: department chair's signature block He requested a blue doctoral cover.
- 7:32Speaker 1: He said it was urgent. Tape processed it. He did
- 7:35Speaker 1: not retain a copy of the authorization form. That form
- 7:39Speaker 1: was never subsequently verified as genuine. The original author page
- 7:43Speaker 1: was removed, a replacement page was inserted, listing Long as
- 7:47Speaker 1: sole scholar. Jennifer Romano's name moved to the acknowledgments section,
- 7:52Speaker 1: identified there as having provided research assistance fourteen months of
- 7:57Speaker 1: Romano's documented work reclassified in an afternoon. But here is
- 8:02Speaker 1: the thing about that red stamp. The bindery's institutional stamp
- 8:06Speaker 1: was applied to the interior of the document during processing,
- 8:10Speaker 1: meaning it recorded the name of the person who brought
- 8:13Speaker 1: the manuscript in. Tait had no reason to think twice
- 8:16Speaker 1: about it at the time he stamped it as a
- 8:19Speaker 1: matter of routine. That stamp was the one piece of
- 8:22Speaker 1: the transaction. Long could not remove after the fact it
- 8:27Speaker 1: was already embedded in a copy he believed was safely hidden.
- 8:31Speaker 1: He had not anticipated. Kimberly Whitley. Investigators working backward from
- 8:36Speaker 1: the tree, established that Long had almost certainly placed the
- 8:39Speaker 1: manuscript in the oak within forty eight hours before Whitley's discovery.
- 8:44Speaker 1: Their reconstruction rested on a key fact. Romano had contacted
- 8:48Speaker 1: the university press directly in late May twenty nineteen teen,
- 8:53Speaker 1: asking about the status of a manuscript she understood to
- 8:56Speaker 1: be hers. The intake coordinator, Felicia Drummond had logged the
- 9:01Speaker 1: submission to Long's departmental address that discrepancy. Romano, calling about
- 9:07Speaker 1: her manuscript. Long's address on the submission, reached Long quickly.
- 9:12Speaker 1: What followed, the evidence suggests, was not a plan to
- 9:16Speaker 1: destroy it was a plan to conceal. Long kept the
- 9:19Speaker 1: bound copy because it bore the bindery's official.
- 9:22Speaker 2: Stamp in his name.
- 9:23Speaker 1: He appears to have reasoned that a stamped copy constituted
- 9:27Speaker 1: a form of institutional record in his favor. He placed
- 9:31Speaker 1: it somewhere he believed it would not be found. He
- 9:34Speaker 1: did not destroy it because destroying it would have meant
- 9:36Speaker 1: erasing evidence he thought worked for him. He was wrong
- 9:40Speaker 1: about Kimberly Whitley. He was wrong about the stamp. Three
- 9:44Speaker 1: days after Romano reported the manuscript's discovery to university administration,
- 9:49Speaker 1: she walked into the office of Donna Brooks, a licensed
- 9:53Speaker 1: clinical social worker she.
- 9:55Speaker 2: Had been referred.
- 9:56Speaker 1: She was not in crisis in the way the word
- 9:59Speaker 1: is commonly on understood. She was, by her own account
- 10:02Speaker 1: to Brooks, uncertain about what had actually happened to her.
- 10:06Speaker 1: That uncertainty was itself finding. Brooks would later provide a
- 10:11Speaker 1: formal statement used.
- 10:13Speaker 2: In the criminal case.
- 10:14Speaker 1: In it, she described a pattern she had observed to
- 10:17Speaker 1: cross her sessions with Romano from July of twenty nineteen forward.
- 10:22Speaker 1: The pattern had a clinical shape, a person who had
- 10:25Speaker 1: been systematically taught to distrust her own perception of events
- 10:29Speaker 1: to the point where when the external record contradicted that
- 10:32Speaker 1: self perception, she experienced the contradiction as personal error rather
- 10:37Speaker 1: than evidence of manipulation. The Fall twenty eighteen apology was
- 10:42Speaker 1: the clearest marker Romano had stood before colleagues and apologized
- 10:47Speaker 1: for confusion. She had not caused about a seminar that
- 10:50Speaker 1: had not been confusing.
- 10:52Speaker 2: She had not been.
- 10:53Speaker 1: Coerced into that apology in any moment that others could see,
- 10:57Speaker 1: she had offered it. Brooks's statement framed this not as weakness,
- 11:01Speaker 1: but as the logical endpoint of a sustained process. Long
- 11:05Speaker 1: had spent years functioning as Romano's primary professional interpreter. He
- 11:10Speaker 1: filtered which feedback reached her. He determined which of her
- 11:13Speaker 1: instincts were sound and which required his correction. By twenty eighteen,
- 11:20Speaker 1: Romano's self assessment had been substantially replaced by his version
- 11:24Speaker 1: of it. That was why Susan Eleary's question asked in
- 11:27Speaker 1: late May of twenty nineteen, had landed so strangely. When
- 11:31Speaker 1: Ellery asked Romano when she had last made a significant
- 11:34Speaker 1: professional decision that Long did not already know about in advance,
- 11:39Speaker 1: Romano could not answer. She had not framed the question
- 11:43Speaker 1: to herself that way before. She could not locate an example,
- 11:47Speaker 1: because there was not one to locate. She had been
- 11:50Speaker 1: in Brooks's clinical language, isolated within a professional structure that
- 11:55Speaker 1: was supposed to protect her. The manuscript in the tree
- 11:58Speaker 1: was not where the dismantling started. It was where it
- 12:01Speaker 1: became visible. At trial, Long's defense attorney, Frank Ocafort, built
- 12:06Speaker 1: the case around consent. Romano had agreed to the arrangement.
- 12:11Speaker 1: She was a contributor, not the primary author. The acknowledgments
- 12:14Speaker 1: reflected the actual division of labor. Long testified to this
- 12:19Speaker 1: confidently and at length picture what that version of events requires.
- 12:24Speaker 1: It requires Romano to have spent fourteen months producing two
- 12:28Speaker 1: hundred forty pages of original sociological research, then agreed to
- 12:32Speaker 1: have her name moved to a line thanking her for assistance,
- 12:36Speaker 1: and to have made that agreement without telling a single colleague,
- 12:40Speaker 1: without mentioning it to Ellery, without disclosing it to her
- 12:44Speaker 1: graduate students, Marcus Rivera and Priya Nath, who had watched
- 12:49Speaker 1: her work. It requires her to have then contacted the
- 12:52Speaker 1: university press in late May to inquire about a manuscript
- 12:56Speaker 1: she had supposedly signed away, and it requires Long to
- 12:59Speaker 1: have hidden a bound copy of that manuscript in an
- 13:02Speaker 1: oak tree as a reasonable response to a consensual arrangement.
- 13:06Speaker 1: The jury took that version and set it aside. But
- 13:10Speaker 1: the more difficult reconstruction is not the one the jury considered.
- 13:15Speaker 1: It concerns what happened before April of two thousand nineteen,
- 13:19Speaker 1: before the bindery, before the tree. It concerns the four
- 13:22Speaker 1: years between Long's assignment as Romano's mentor and the moment
- 13:26Speaker 1: he walked into Owen Tate's office with a coffee spill.
- 13:29Speaker 1: Story walked back to two thousand fifteen. Long was warmth
- 13:34Speaker 1: and doors opened. He introduced Romano to people who mattered.
- 13:39Speaker 1: He put his name first on a conference paper she
- 13:41Speaker 1: largely wrote, and she accepted that as the cost of
- 13:44Speaker 1: access to his network. That was the first replacement her
- 13:48Speaker 1: assessment of fair credit, overwritten by his framing of professional generosity.
- 13:53Speaker 1: By two thousand seventeen, the doors had quietly closed, the
- 13:57Speaker 1: introductions stopped. The feedback Romano received came through Long. What
- 14:04Speaker 1: reached her was curated. What did not reach her was
- 14:07Speaker 1: not discussed. In twenty twenty two, a woman named Diane
- 14:11Speaker 1: Stall came forward. She was fifty three in two thousand four.
- 14:16Speaker 1: She had been a doctoral student at a western Pennsylvania
- 14:19Speaker 1: university when Long visited as a guest scholar. Stall described
- 14:23Speaker 1: a pattern warmth, then isolation, then a seminar paper she
- 14:27Speaker 1: had written, appearing later under Long's name. She told investigators
- 14:31Speaker 1: Long had taught her not to trust her own memory.
- 14:35Speaker 1: Stall testified at Long's sentencing review. Pennsylvania prosecutors determined the
- 14:40Speaker 1: statute of limitations precluded charges for those events. Long was
- 14:43Speaker 1: not tried for what happened in two thousand four, but
- 14:46Speaker 1: Stall's account entered the sentencing record, and it recontextualized every
- 14:51Speaker 1: choice Long had made at ardenmore not as opportunism that
- 14:55Speaker 1: found Romano, but as a method that had found her
- 14:58Speaker 1: the way it had found some someone else fifteen years before,
- 15:02Speaker 1: and perhaps others in between. The coffee spill story was
- 15:06Speaker 1: not improvisation.
- 15:08Speaker 2: The authorization form, the blue cover.
- 15:11Speaker 1: The acknowledgments line, these were not panic. They were the
- 15:14Speaker 1: final step in a sequence that had started with praise,
- 15:18Speaker 1: and praise is the hardest thing in.
- 15:19Speaker 2: The world to investigate.
- 15:21Speaker 1: Within six weeks of his appeal failing, in twenty twenty two,
- 15:25Speaker 1: Long gave a recorded statement to a journalist. He described
- 15:28Speaker 1: his actions as a misunderstanding of professional norms. He described
- 15:33Speaker 1: Romano as ambitious in ways that sometimes required management. He
- 15:38Speaker 1: did not use the word theft. He had managed her
- 15:40Speaker 1: ambition for four years. He had simply never planned for
- 15:44Speaker 1: a retired postal supervisor with binoculars and the documented habit
- 15:49Speaker 1: of looking up. The jury returned its verdict in February
- 15:53Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, guilty on all counts, theft of intellectual property, fraud,
- 15:59Speaker 1: wire fraud, all counts. The deliberation had not been long.
- 16:03Speaker 1: At sentencing, the court imposed four years in a state
- 16:07Speaker 1: correctional facility. Long was eligible for supervised release after two
- 16:11Speaker 1: and a half years.
- 16:13Speaker 2: He served thirty one months.
- 16:15Speaker 1: Frank Oqefort filed the appeal in twenty twenty two. The
- 16:18Speaker 1: appellate court rejected it in language that court watchers described
- 16:22Speaker 1: as brief and unambiguous. The prosecutorial overreach argument did not
- 16:27Speaker 1: find purchase. The conviction held on every charge. Within six
- 16:32Speaker 1: weeks of that ruling, Long sat down with a journalist
- 16:35Speaker 1: and gave a recorded statement. He said his actions reflected
- 16:39Speaker 1: a misunderstanding of professional norms. He said Romano had been
- 16:43Speaker 1: ambitious in ways that sometimes required management. He did not
- 16:47Speaker 1: use the word theft, not once. That sentence is worth
- 16:51Speaker 1: pausing on a jury had found beyond a reasonable doubt
- 16:55Speaker 1: that he had taken something. He had served more than
- 16:58Speaker 1: two and a half years in a directional facility, and
- 17:01Speaker 1: the word he chose on record was misunderstanding. Donna Brooks,
- 17:06Speaker 1: the licensed clinical social worker who had begun working with
- 17:09Speaker 1: Romano in July of twenty nineteen, provided a formal statement
- 17:14Speaker 1: that became part of the criminal case. Her documentation of
- 17:18Speaker 1: Long's methods, the praise cycle, the isolation, the systematic replacement
- 17:23Speaker 1: of Romano's professional judgment with his own, gave investigators a
- 17:27Speaker 1: clinical framework for what the physical evidence already showed. The
- 17:31Speaker 1: blue bound manuscript in the tree was the end of
- 17:34Speaker 1: the sequence. Brooks's statement helped establish what the beginning looked like.
- 17:39Speaker 1: The manuscript itself was authenticated. The University press accepted it
- 17:44Speaker 1: under Jennifer Romano's name. It was published in twenty twenty one,
- 17:48Speaker 1: two years after Long had walked it into Owen Tate's
- 17:52Speaker 1: bindery with a story about coffee. Felicia Drummond, the intake
- 17:56Speaker 1: coordinator who had logged it under Long's departmental address in
- 17:59Speaker 1: May of twenty nineteen, was not a witness against him.
- 18:03Speaker 1: She had processed what she received. She had no reason
- 18:06Speaker 1: to doubt the submission the forty seven thousand dollars Long
- 18:10Speaker 1: had drawn from two grant applications listing Romano's unpublished research
- 18:15Speaker 1: under his name. That money had already been spent. The
- 18:19Speaker 1: record does not show it was recovered. Diane Stall's account
- 18:23Speaker 1: entered the sentencing record. Pennsylvania prosecutors reviewed it and determined
- 18:28Speaker 1: the statute of limitations precluded charges for events that had
- 18:32Speaker 1: occurred in two thousand four. Long was not tried for
- 18:35Speaker 1: what Stall described, but the sentencing judge heard it, and
- 18:40Speaker 1: what it established in that court room was a trajectory,
- 18:43Speaker 1: not a single act of opportunism, but a method with
- 18:46Speaker 1: a history. Romano still walks the Ardenmore campus path on
- 18:51Speaker 1: week day mornings, according to available accounts, whether she pauses
- 18:56Speaker 1: at the Founder's Fountain, she has not said publicly. There
- 19:00Speaker 1: is something specific about this case that does not resolve cleanly.
- 19:03Speaker 1: Even with a conviction on every count. Richard Long received
- 19:07Speaker 1: four years. He served thirty one months. The appellate court
- 19:11Speaker 1: rejected his argument without ceremony. Those are facts. They are
- 19:15Speaker 1: also in some way insufficient to the shape of what
- 19:19Speaker 1: he did. Jennifer Romano spent fourteen months writing two hundred
- 19:23Speaker 1: forty pages. She spent four years before that being methodically
- 19:28Speaker 1: separated from her own professional instincts, her sense of what
- 19:32Speaker 1: her work was worth, who her colleagues were, what her
- 19:35Speaker 1: own memory could be trusted to hold. Long did not
- 19:38Speaker 1: take a manuscript. He took the internal architecture she used
- 19:42Speaker 1: to evaluate herself. The manuscript was evidence of that, it was.
- 19:46Speaker 2: Not the whole of it.
- 19:47Speaker 1: Donna Brooks spent months documenting what that architecture looked like
- 19:51Speaker 1: after Long had finished with it. What emerges from her
- 19:54Speaker 1: statement is not a portrait of a crime committed in
- 19:57Speaker 1: a bindery. It is a portrait of a person who
- 20:00Speaker 1: had been taught carefully and over years to doubt the
- 20:03Speaker 1: accuracy of her own perception. The blue cover in the
- 20:08Speaker 1: tree was the thing Kimberly Whitley found on a Tuesday
- 20:13Speaker 1: morning in July what Romano had to find and find
- 20:18Speaker 1: again was harder to hold in her hands. Diane Stall
- 20:22Speaker 1: said Long had taught her not to trust her own memory.
- 20:26Speaker 1: She said this in twenty twenty two, eighteen years after
- 20:29Speaker 1: the seminar paper. She described that she remembered clearly enough
- 20:33Speaker 1: to say it, that her account was coherent enough to
- 20:36Speaker 1: enter a sentencing record. Is the detail that Land's hardest.
- 20:41Speaker 1: Long's method depended on replacement. Replace the feedback, replace the judgment,
- 20:46Speaker 1: Replace the authour's name on the cover. What he did
- 20:49Speaker 1: not plan for, ever, was the persistence of the people
- 20:53Speaker 1: he had replaced. He did not plan for Whitley's binoculars.
- 20:57Speaker 1: He did not plan for Stall's memory. He did not
- 20:59Speaker 1: plan for Romano continuing to walk that path. The manuscript
- 21:04Speaker 1: was published in twenty twenty one under Jennifer Romano's name
- 21:09Speaker 1: by the university press that had originally received it under his.
- 21:13Speaker 1: That is the record the work exists, attributed correctly in print.
- 21:19Speaker 1: Long described her after his appeal failed, as ambitious in
- 21:23Speaker 1: ways that sometimes required management. The book is the answer
- 21:27Speaker 1: to that sentence. It required nothing from him. It was
- 21:31Speaker 1: finished before he ever walked it into the bindery.
- 21:34Speaker 2: She wrote it. It is hers.
- 21:36Speaker 1: That was always true, and the four years it took
- 21:39Speaker 1: to make it officially true do not change the fact
- 21:42Speaker 1: that preceded them. Some things survive the people who try
- 21:46Speaker 1: to erase them.
- 21:47Speaker 2: This one did.
- 21:49Speaker 1: This show is made by Obe Media