Latest / Roast the Post Podcast / Strategy & Ops Leader: The Wolf of West Village

Transcript

Strategy & Ops Leader: The Wolf of West Village · Roast the Post Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Here is the opener.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: The salary is impressive.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: The equity is generous.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: The office is stunning.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: The meals are covered.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This week, we've got a company that's offering enough perks
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: to make you think, wow, I could practically live here.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: But
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wait a minute, maybe that's the point.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is this a company that cares so much about their employees that they're offering
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: everything up on a silver platter?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe, and to quote Admiral Akbar,
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: it's a trap.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let's find out when we roast this post.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that guy's name.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: I just knew he said "it's a trap",
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: so I had to look up his name.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, that's like the grand meme.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even if you don't like Star Wars,
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even if you don't like Star Wars,
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: at some point you've probably come across the whole,
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: "It's a trap."
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: But is it?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Let's find out.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Let's I'm gonna share the roasty profile as usual.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: The job title for this role is strategy and ops leader.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: The report to title is unknown.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: The company size is 51 to 200 employees.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: The industry is financial services.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So what do they do?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: They are an AI operating system for investment management built
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: for the world's largest wealth firms and fintechs.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: This company works with firms managing more than $10 trillion in assets.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So this company works with firms managing more than
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: $10 trillion in client assets.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: The head office location is New York,
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: New York, USA.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: The job location is the same.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: The geographical operating area,
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then the job type is full-time on site.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so a little bit of background as to why I chose this
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: posting.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting because a lot of the flavour
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: du jour is AI, especially if you're watching here on Substack.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I found this company that does like fintech AI type stuff.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I also created an agent using ChatGPT
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: and I gave it some criteria and asked it every week to find me like
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Outrageous, quirky, cool job ads.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is like kind of like an inception type situation.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: and then it found this job ad for me.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I liked the title because Paul,
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: like I think it aligns with your background and your expertise,
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: like strategy, ops, and all that kind of stuff.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's kind of what motivated me with this job ad.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm dialed in for sure.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm dialed in for sure.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like 10... they're they're looking for funds or firms that have in the range of,
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know, 10 trillion assets under management.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Those are not small funds.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So like this small company is looking
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: to work with the biggest funds in the financial services industry.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very interesting dynamic that I'm quite curious about.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a huge job ad,
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: so I think we might be able to run through it all.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: but let's see.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So a few different sections in here.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: The opener starts with build the future of investment management with us.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it goes on to say the infrastructure managing $300 trillion
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: in assets was built in the 90s.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now all of it is up for grabs.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: The winner of the AI era of investment management will be a $100 billion plus dollar
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: company.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: We intend to be that company.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: To get there, we are assembling the most talent dense startup in New York.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: We hire people who are 1) exceptional,
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: 2) allergic to anything that's not exceptional.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And 3) recruiters of other exceptional people.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: We also have no tolerance for brilliant jerks.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: We run lean by design, we work with a select group of
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: the largest financial institutions in the world,
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: go incredibly deep with each, and sit in the flow of trillions of dollars.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: We hire fewer people, ask each to own the outcome,
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: and pay on impact, not tenure or experience.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: This company is not for everyone.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: The standards are unreasonably high,
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: the pace is intense, and there is no playbook.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: In return, the best work of your career building a generational company.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Let's stop there.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: I have thoughts.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: it's not a big intro, but there is so much happening in that intro.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have thoughts upon thoughts upon thoughts.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so why don't you go ahead,
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Paul, and share those.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that... reading between the lines,
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: what I take away from that is "we don't know what the f*ck we're doing.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know what the f*ck we need or want.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: We think that there's an opportunity to revolutionize something.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Come and help us figure it out."
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I read from that.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: I will give them points for being honest about...
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is... this is...
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: I forget how they phrased it,
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: but it was like what we're asking for is is kind of crazy.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: it's got big meritocracy vibes attached
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: to it, which I don't hate.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't hate meritocracies.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that an element of meritocracy inside an organization is
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: is healthy and good as long as it's not the driving factor behind absolutely
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: everything and you don't turn it into the hunger games with meritocracy.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Whether or not this is like The Hunger Games,
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: We will find out.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: but those are those are kind of my initial thoughts.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're trying to do something really big and they don't know how to.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: They want to figure
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, just
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: it out.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: It absolutely does.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like they are they're saying flat out that they want
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: the absolute best.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're saying that their mission is to build what they call
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: the most talent dense startup in New York City,
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: which, you know, let's be honest about it.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's bravado.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're not going to build the most talent dense startup
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: in New York City unless they've got a whackload of cash.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: and they're able to, you know,
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: take all of the other big tech startups that have been around for
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: 30 years and have offices in New York City and kind of like push them out.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: so you know, like big hairy audacious goal.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Good for them.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're honest about it.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: they're saying... they're saying something to the effect of
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: We hate brilliant, talented jerks.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So they're trying to put a cultural signal in there that they want something
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: in their organization that's a little bit more collaborative,
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: which I kind of like.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: so full on,
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: I will give them top marks so far for their honesty.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: But warning flags... red flags for me,
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: it does not seem like they know what they want or what they need.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: so unless something in the rest of this job ad kind of convinces me otherwise,
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: my clusterf*ck detector is kind of going off.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit like a smoke alarm, right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: so I will say that this is a bit of a spicy episode so far,
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: because I think like Paul and I are like, OOOOOHHH!
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: if you are familiar with certain terms that were shared in that intro,
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: then you will know that this company has a hard-on for Netflix.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only way I can describe it.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: They have a hard-on for Netflix.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Something about that culture resonates with them.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what they're trying to design their culture around.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I say that because brilliant jerks is a term originated by the CEO of Netflix.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's this idea that you can be highly skilled at something,
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: but if you're an a*shole, then you don't belong here.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where that comes from.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think this episode is gonna win the award for the most swearsies
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: per minute out of any that we've recorded so far.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're both pretty fired up about this.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: so that's where brilliant jerks comes from.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: But there's another term that they're using in the intro,
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: and it's called talent density,
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: also popularized by Netflix.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is basically saying that...
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: a small team of exceptional performers,
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: so we've we heard that adjective a lot,
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: could outperform a much larger average one,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: which is not untrue, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: You got a small team and everyone's really good
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: at what they do, they can probably outperform that larger average team.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is though, is that it only works if the organization is like just
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: as rigorous about leadership, about decision making,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: about performance expectations.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people like to adopt those terms from the bigger companies,
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: but sometimes they're not looking at like how it's being used.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: I just think companies need to be careful about that.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: They talk about hiring people who are exceptional,
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: allergic to anything that's not exceptional.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: if I were a candidate, I would ask how the company evaluates excellence.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like what does that look like?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then they also talk about that they don't like brilliant jerks.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but... is that true?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like culturally, it's about what your organization tolerates,
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: not what they say on paper.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: So what does that look like?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: About this company.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: This company is the AI operating system for investment management built
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: for the world's largest wealth firms and fintechs.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: We work with firms managing more than $10 trillion in client assets
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: and are backed by Index, something I don't know what it is,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: and Lightspeed.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: This company was founded by former Quantz from Citadel
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: and Jane Street and is based in New York City.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Pause there.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: What does that tell you?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Does that give you a little bit more context?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, so if the company was indeed founded
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: by hotshots from Citadel, then that is... that's a thing.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's a thing.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: They will probably know what they're doing on
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: the market side, on the financial side of it.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: but that does not tell me that they have a lot
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: of experience or operating depth in technology.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Which if you are... if you're saying that you want to revolutionize something,
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: and you're going to build the best team,
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to have the best talent,
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to be the best, blah,
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're going to make it absolutely amazing.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: and you have the capability to do that in one part of your business,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: but you're absolutely adrift in another part of your business,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: that's a bit of a problem.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: And this job ad so far, it does read like they don't necessarily have
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: the technical expertise, the bench to be able to kind of make it so on that side
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: of it.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And add to that the compounding kind of fact, layering in that we're talking
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: about AI.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about a technology that is very nascent in a lot of ways.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like chatbots have been around forever.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: they've been popularized since about 2022...
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: that's only four years.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: and these people are not going to be using
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: a large language model in their technology.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: I hope.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: If they're building this technology that's going to
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: revolutionize the financial markets and it's all based on an
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: LLM or even something around like RAG,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: and that's just it... everybody take your money out of your portfolio right
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: now and put it under your mattress.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because if these guys are successful,
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: they'll f*ck up everything and your retirement savings will
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: go away.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: so I'm a little bit worried about that.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And these guys are in New York,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: so they'll have access to connections that could actually help them be successful.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: we'll see.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a little bit worried about this job ad.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what one of the things that I noted with this was that there's
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of boasting and and that's... they're building credibility
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: and they're acting very confident.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of companies... like, they're selling the job for you and a
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: lot of companies forget to do that.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: They forget to explain what makes this company
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: different.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Why us, right?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's a two-way transaction.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: They want to attract you, and you want to attract them.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of companies really sell themselves short.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I do appreciate that they're doing that.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I think, like... you kind of touched on this.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: We know who backs them,
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: we know who founded them, but we don't really know anything about what their
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: AI operating system is actually doing.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: so I find that really interesting.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly don't think they do either.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like what we've...
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: what we've seen from the job ad so far says "we have this idea,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: come work for us and with us and make it a reality."
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that they...
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that they know how this is going
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: to work yet.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Which, if we we think back to where they said "we want
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: to be intentional in hiring and we want to hire fewer people",
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: the underbelly of that is "we want to mitigate risk from overhiring.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna keep it small."
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe their approach is to say,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: all right, we're going to build a... an MVP,
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: a minimum viable product, with a small team.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to validate that this actually will work and we'll go from there.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: If that's their strategy underneath the hood and they're not not talking about
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: it yet, okay, okay, I feel a little bit better.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: But it sounds like they don't know what they what they want to do yet.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's concerning.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's it's startup vibes.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: the whole we're building the plane while flying it.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's where that saying comes from.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it will be quite... quite the ride.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: the next section goes into the actual role.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: So the role.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're looking for,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: here's the word again, for an exceptional individual to help build
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: and scale our GTM engine.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: And in this case,
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: go to market, right?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Work on the most important GTM strategy and operational projects in
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: the company and drive our next phase of growth.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're in hypergrowth and need a versatile,
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: gritty, high-slope individual who can help us maintain our
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: 10x plus growth trajectory while building the GTM and ops engine into
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: a machine that scales and executes with high velocity.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: While this role has a very broad scope,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: we'll tailor the scope to your superpowers so that you can have the highest impact.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And career acceleration.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna stop here.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Usually we don't stop like that with such little shared.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: but yes, exactly.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: To quote the chat,
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Holy f*ck.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: what in the AI?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: What in the
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: AI?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: I will say that there were a couple things I actually liked,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: like if I'm being honest.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is kind of like the anti-me job ad,
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: but there were a couple things that I liked.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'd love to hear your thoughts on that small section.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's just the role.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super confused.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So the story that was... the picture that was kind
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: of being painted before is we're going to be intentional in hiring.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: We don't really quite know what we are doing or how we're going to execute
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: on it yet.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to assemble a team of superheroes.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we're going to bring in superheroes to help us kind of solve the problem.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I was reading from this up until now.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: But then they turn around and they say,
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: we're in hyper-growth mode.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we need someone who is exceptional to come and basically,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know, leverage hypergrowth mode to hyper-hyper-hypergrowth mode.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder what they mean when they say hypergrowth in this context.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because when I think about growth modes and hypergrowth modes in startups,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: we're talking about you've found product market fit,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: you've identified your go-to-market strategy,
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: you have
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: proven what works.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And now you're like,
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: you're pouring that venture capital money into the machine and you're hiring
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: a ton of people.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're scaling your resourcing,
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: like you're putting infrastructure and scaffolding in place so that
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: you can command the market and you can be the dominant player in this.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the usual... curve... of all of this.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: But now they're saying we're in hypergrowth mode and we don't know what
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: the f*ck we're doing yet.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: What's up with that?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't get that.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's very, very confusing to me.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what to make of this.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: A red flag that really comes up for me as well.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned it a little while ago.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: they say "exceptional" a lot.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's good,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: maybe that's bad.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's a signal for what they want.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is starting to form a very clear kind
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: of cultural picture of what they're after for me.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it seems
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: to be very kind of fuelled by, you know,
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: New York...
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: VC finance world and high growth tech startup world kind
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: of mixed together and culturally,
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: like historically, those two things are both very problematic.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: So like jamming them together is more problematic,
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: I would say.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: The cultural signalling seems to be there.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: But when they say exceptional,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: what... do they mean by exceptional?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: What's the guideline
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: for that?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like "exceptional" is very subjective.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: At the best of times.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: So as a candidate,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be looking at this and saying,
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: okay, well, you've said the word exceptional about 20 times already.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: What does that actually mean to you?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because I have an idea of what I think it means to you in my mind.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: But if there's a mismatch there,
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: it's going to cost me money.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because they've said that pay is tied to outcome,
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: not to tenure, not to experience,
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: not to anything else.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that kind of would be setting off alarm bells for
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: me as a candidate.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And do you think, based on what we've heard so far,
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: that they actually have that like scoped out and like there's a rubric
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: and they under No,
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: God no.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: absolutely not.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is like the trifecta.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for anyone who is ever interested in true crime,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: there's a trifecta of what makes a serial killer.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like mommy issues, head injury,
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: wetting your bed, right?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's the trifecta of how you create
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: a serial killer or what
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: What creates a serial killer.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: In this job, we've got a trifecta of finance,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: startup, AI.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a trifecta of something.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to know what it is,
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: but it's certainly terrifying.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And they probably all pee their bed too.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: So my thing,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I had said that there was something I liked about it.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And this is gonna sound... because, well actually first before I go into that,
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: I have a question.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Does anyone know what high slope means?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: They want a high slope individual.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what that is.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've ever heard that term before.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: I've never heard that term before.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Never.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm wondering if
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: maybe Kathi knows what that is or anyone else,
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: like a high slope individual.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: I could have Googled it.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're Googling it right now.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: but I just think that that's an interesting,
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: that's a first for us.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: What does it say?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: that's a first for us. What does it say?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: it says
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: so a high slope individual is
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: slang for someone who can basically learn really,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: really quick and be like really effective,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: really, really fast and be amazing.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Exceptional.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a... it's another word for exceptional.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exceptional, but exceptional on the time
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: horizon of seven and a half minutes after you've,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: you know, had three minutes pouring yourself a cup of coffee.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is interesting
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: because Olomide says you've heard it used in consulting and chief of staff roles.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: When I read this job description the first time,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: some of it read to me as chief of staff.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting that you picked up on that because that's kind
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: of how it was starting to read for me too.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: So very, very perceptive.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: So going back to the one thing that
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: I thought was interesting was that they acknowledge that it's a broad scope.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're kind of gonna say it,
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: but they're acknowledging it and I appreciate that because a lot
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: of companies don't actually like take that
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: time.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Points for honesty.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: There's some honesty here.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: They also say that they'll tailor the scope to your superpowers,
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I hate "superpowers"... but, they're saying that they're doing it so that
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: you can have the highest impact and career acceleration.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how true that is,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: but I appreciate
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: that that's kind of a thing that they are trying to do.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like good luck to them.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that they can do that.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: ~
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: but what does that mean?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And what if those superpowers that they tailored your role
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: to no longer serve the organization down the road?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Then what?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: They tailor this to you.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: that's the inherent danger of of doing stuff like that,
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: of tailoring roles very,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: very, very heavily to individuals.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm...
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm absolutely supportive of tailoring roles to individuals
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: to a certain extent, to the extent that you can do so without impacting
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: the rest of the organization negatively.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and examples of role tailoring,
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: job tailoring include things like flex time.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: They include things like personal development.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: They include things like working hours.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: They include things like assistive devices in the workplace.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: They include things like reporting structures and relationships
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: and coaching and mentoring.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: All of those things?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic for tailoring
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: the role to an individual.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're saying "we're going
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: to 100% make this a bespoke role",
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: that's going to be a challenge in a hypergrowth environment.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because hypergrowth environments,
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: if they're actually using the word
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Properly.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: A hypergrowth environment is one where you are 10x'ing your revenue
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: at least year over year.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And traditionally,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: that means that you have to, like, staff up.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: You don't just hire one or two people in a quarter,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: you hire a hundred people a month and you spend that money.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well but remember
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: they say we run lean by design and then they talk about
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: talent density.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, and is it gonna be effective?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's what I find so confusing and frustrating about this so far.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, the... this... there are mixed signals in this.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: There
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: are huge mixed signals... that drive me a little bit nuts.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: anyway, I think...
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: I feel that if I continue to talk
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: There are aspirations that they're speaking of,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: but then there's reality, and those things really do bump against each other.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And thus is,
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: like, the startup life.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: So next we go into what you'll do.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Run point on the most important GTM operational
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: and strategy projects at the company.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Turn the company into a well-oiled machine that can maintain 10x plus growth while
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: scaling smoothly and effectively.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you will be doing in this role.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Build a world-class strategy and ops function and help stand up,
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: scale other functions as needed.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Lean into your superpowers to maximize impact and career acceleration.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll stop there.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: So they're hiring a chief operating officer?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, yeah.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, that last section to me read like a COO.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: but that's not what they've titled the job.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I would imagine that... that that's not what they're looking for
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: on the pay scale.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: I would imagine they're looking... this is all very jumbled,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: the things that they're putting together that they want and need.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: the job title of this role is BizOps and Strategy Lead,
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: But absolutely everything that they just said, to me, says Chief Operating Officer
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: or Chief of Staff, as well.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Could be it in some kind of...
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: in some organizations.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, those things are at odds.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And what's not clear yet is what authority this person has,
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: what authority to make decisions, and to instruct other people
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: on strategic priorities and executional priorities this role will actually have.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because that is historically one thing, that, strategy leads... if there isn't
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: a good organizational design around it.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: One thing, historically, that strategy leads run into is they come up with very
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: well reasoned strategy, very well thought out stuff to do,
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: but then they run into other people's priorities not being theirs.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: So they can't actually execute on their strategy.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: without authority around this role,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like this could
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Probably fall into that gap too.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you name something really interesting here because one of the terms that they
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: use, and keep in mind, in the "what you'll do",
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: there are only four bullet points,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: but each of them is, like, essentially everything.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of those points is turn the company into a well-oiled machine.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Chief of Staff and Chief Operating Officer...
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's... if everybody is like a cog in the machine.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: How are you going to... you just said it, what kind of authority do you have?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm a candidate, I'm looking at this,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: and I would be asking, what authority,
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: what resources, what leadership support?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Am I the leader?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: What... at the end of the day,
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: really, what authority comes with this role?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: they also talk a lot about building and scaling.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: they're really focused on outcomes.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: You'll notice
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: In most job postings, they list responsibilities and it's task-based.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: outcomes-based.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say that I prefer seeing an outcomes-based job
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: ad than I do a task-based job ad.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's just me personally.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: I want to understand.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: that's how you tie value back to your role too,
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you keep engaged, because you understand what are
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: the outcomes and you can you can kind of figure things out from there.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: But we don't have a reporting structure listed in this job ad either.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: So who knows?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: next section as
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: we near the end of the job ad.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: "You're a good fit if you have"... five to eight years of experience
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: at some combination of B2B, that's business-to-business startups,
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: investment banking, consulting,
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: or investing, PE (private equity),
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: hedge fund, VC.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: (Venture Capital).
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Preference for at least some GTM or operations experience
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: at a startup.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Incredible work ethic, throughput,
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: ability to learn, obsession over the details,
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: ownership mentality, and bias for action.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: High integrity.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Better,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna keep going, even better if you have.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: A passion to become a master at all things operations and or GTM in B2B startups,
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: motivation to find a career-defining opportunity and experience significant personal
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: career growth.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna stop there.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the qualifications, if you will.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Paul is
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: having a a very big reaction to this.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I feel...
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: like my zone is fully flooded and that was...
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: maybe that's the point of this job ad.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: To flood the zone so thoroughly
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: and so completely that the people who apply, just apply because they forget
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: what they've read and they're like,
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, sure, give me the money,
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: let's make it work.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing super strategic about this
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: role.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, saying flat out,
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: we want you to
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: master the operational complexity of the business and,
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know, the well-oiled machine and and all of that stuff.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: nothing about this is about strategy.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like sure, you can... you can have that rare person
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: who is capable of functioning cognitively on both a strategic plane
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: and an execution plane.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Never at the same time.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just, the
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: human brain does not work like that.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot be thinking big picture strategy and be thinking, like, these
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: 10 things in this workflow simultaneously.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Our brains are not wired that way.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: We cannot do it.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: You do have people who can rapidly switch between those two things.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would argue that attention residue absolutely impairs their performance on
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: either side, but those people they they do kind of exist.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: This job's bullsh*t. This is such bullshit.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you I'm glad you like it so much.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it's interesting, because they do mention some experience.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: they are also very much talking about
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: like... traits.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen this before in job ads.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're talking just as much about like traits and like behaviours than they
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: are about experience, although the experience is
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: very interesting.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then I also wonder...
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: I work in venture capital.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like I can say this,
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: but one of the things that they list is if you're a good fit if
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: you have high integrity.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Can you work in PE and venture and those things
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: and do those things make sense together?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: How does that measure?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: In some industries,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: the definition of the word integrity is subjective.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just leave it at that.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, exactly.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought that was interesting.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, yeah, so we also talked about obsession over the details.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, I get why you... not that's good,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: sorry.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: I get why you were saying that,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: but we've talked about that dangerous slope,
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: high slope, if you will, whatever that term was that they used,
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: with having someone... having obsessed in those descriptions because
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: what does that mean?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is this person going to be... what's going to be more important
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: to them?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And how are they going to... how are they going to portray that trait
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: and being obsessed about things at work?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: How does that show up?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like that.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's really dangerous, to make that part of something that you're
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: looking for, because it can
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: show up in some really terrible ways in an organization.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: They... it's interesting because they don't also talk about being fluid,
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: and being agile and being open and learning and things like that.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's really, really like a set type of personality,
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: a specific type of personality that they're looking for.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: so we shall see how that suits them, and how that works
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: in the organization.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: next
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Is compensation and benefits.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna tell I'm not gonna share
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: the compensation yet, but that's a section in the job ad.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a base salary listed,
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: and then it goes on to say "equity,
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: aggressive initial grant plus annual performance-based bonuses.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Another benefit is our beautiful West Village office with a terrace,
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: five days a week in office.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: They also offer, I'm just, I want everyone to brace themselves for this.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: They also offer free lunch and dinner.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: They
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: offer $150 monthly gym stipend,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: health, dental, and vision coverage,
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: 100% company reimbursement.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the job ad.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: So in the compensation part, initial equity grant,
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, you would expect that for something like this, for sure.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: that also kind of signals to me that the salary is going to be
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: a little bit challenging.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: which startups,
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know, that the salary's always gonna be a little bit challenging.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: I found it interesting that they said annual equity grants.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: And my guess is that we're we're not actually talking about, like, equity,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: owned equity.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're probably talking about options.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: So if there's a liquidity event in the future,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: this company goes public or is you know acquired by somebody else,
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: then at that point in time, the employees that have options can convert them
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: to equity.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a flash transaction structure that's usually used where it's
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: like, okay, the option is triggered.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: legally you need to buy the equity.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: But we're going to structure it in such a way that whatever the equity costs
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: to buy and whatever the sale price is,
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: you'll get the difference.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you won't actually have to front any cash
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: for this up front.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: It'll just be like,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: hey, you know, your
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: share is valued at a buck.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: We sold for five.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you get four, we pay the one,
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: all good.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: the annual grants based on performance,
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: that's interesting.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's not super, super, super common at very early stage companies like this.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Typically, you see stuff like that with employee stock plans,
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: where it's an established company that's already publicly traded and
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: you get stock grants based on performance and other factors.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty common, but it's uncommon for companies of this size.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of give them points for that,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: points in their favour.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: But again.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked about options on the show before.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: they're meaningless unless there is actually an acquisition or
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: a liquidity event or something.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: You can very easily get into a situation where your options are meaningless.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: or if, you know, you leave the company before those options become
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: a real thing for you, then you can get into a legal fight and you're gonna lose.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's just how it is.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know,
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: they're not super meaningful unless you really believe in this and unless there's
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: a pathway to get there.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: five days a week in office, that's weird for AI.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's weird for technology.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: but if this is finance and if a part
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: of developing this software platform is at least relational, based on Wall Street,
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: kinda get it.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Kinda get it.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: but that's gonna limit the pool
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: of available exceptional people that they want.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna make a bet here that the only exceptional people
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: in the universe that they want to hire are in... basically Manhattan.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: or you know, Brooklyn or whatever.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can take the L train in if you want,
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: or Queens or Flatbush if you want to commute a little bit longer.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: but they're saying like the only exceptional people that are worth hiring
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: are in New York.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: it do you want exceptional people or do you want people who are gonna
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: be in your friggin' office five days a week?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you've chosen what you want.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the best decision, I don't think.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is it, yeah.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Free lunch and dinner, that's a signal.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: you're gonna be in the office till 10 PM is what that says.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if there are cots in the back for people who sleep overnight,
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: especially developers.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: health envisioned at a hundred percent coverage.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was health, right?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Or was it dental?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do what did I say?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Health, dental,
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: and vision.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent company reimbursement.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's... that's pretty good.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's uncommonly good for early stage companies,
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: especially in the US.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's uncommonly good, because that will be very expensive.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: so I have nothing negative to say about that.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Scene.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm finished.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: and scene.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: So my thoughts are pretty much the same as yours.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is another... this is the second job ad that we have seen lately where they talk
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: about how sick their office is.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a beautiful view.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're selling you on that,
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's sure, I'm sure it's a lovely office and it's a great view,
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: but like so is the view outside my home office window.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that to me, that's not a selling point.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: and you said it,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: free lunch and dinner.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: So they're telling you... it is a trap.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I said at the intro.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny because Amanda, who's in our studio audience,
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: was not here for my intro, but I literally said "it's a trap."
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: that was, like... it's telling you everything you need to know.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: The story behind the bullet points.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we do this show.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're expecting you to be there all the time.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be surprised if there is,
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: if there are sleep pods back there,
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: whatever it is that they need to do.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: We've mentioned this before in jobs like this,
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: maybe like there's a little bowl of cocaine on everyone's
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: table... cubicle,
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like They're gonna do everything they can to keep you there.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that is why it's five days a week.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's not because they have a beautiful office.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's because they want eyes on you and they want to see that you're working
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: all the time and you have a gym stipend.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well God forbid you actually go to the gym because they will know that you've gone
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: to the gym they're gonna be watching.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all what what we thought that it was.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Compensation, I want to talk about that because they do list the salary,
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: which as we know with this show,
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: it is a little bit rare to see that these days.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to know your thoughts,
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Paul, and I would love to know people listening and watching what your thoughts
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: are as well.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: So as a refresher,
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: it is the job title is Strategy and Ops Leader,
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: it's in financial services, they're an AI operating system
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: for investment management and located in New York.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is permanent, full time, on-site.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think the salary is for this role?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: there are two kind of answers.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's what I think it should be valued at,
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: and what I think they're going to value it at.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think that this should be valued at,
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: and this is not titled as a leadership role or an executive role.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is at the very best an individual contributor,
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: probably like the director kind of seniority level role.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: so I think this should be somewhere between.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: 120 and 140 USD per year.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: which is... it's quite the guess, given that
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: the job responsibilities, the things that you're responsible for
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: are all over the friggin' map.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: But based on what I... what I think they're asking for,
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think this should be USD $120,000 to USD $140,000.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: given the focus on equity, both initial and annual grants,
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's going to be lower than that.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think what they're actually going to offer.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: is between USD $75,000 and a USD $100,000 per year.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a guess in the studio audience as well.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: neither are right.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Let me tell you what the salary band is for this role.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: US dollars.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: $160,000 to $230,000 is the base salary.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: see, all of me, yeah, you're you were close there.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: So $160,000 to $230,000 USD.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: to me, I mean... thoughts on that,
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: but it is you know, higher, top-market salary.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: what I'm interested in understanding is when do they decide it's $160,000
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: and when do they decide it's $230,000.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's very true.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: What are the factors?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because they do talk about they don't care
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: as much about experience.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: They don't care as much about...
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: I can't they said something else about that.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: They're really more talking about like
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: a person who wants to do this work.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so how are you determining then,
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: if experience isn't that important to you,
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: how are you then deciding who gets $230,000 and who gets $160,000?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: it's a huge range.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: This the the $160,000 to $230,000...
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: like, the base salary being as high as it is,
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: as I think about it now, that's solely a function of this being in office
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: in New York City.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: Salaries in New York City are extremely high.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: And they've made the decision for whatever reason to only cast their
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: net in that pond.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: So they're saying we want the best talent in New York City,
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: nowhere else, you know, outside of that?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter to us.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's...
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's why we're getting that $160,000 to $230,000 range,
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: which for me is like, did you guys forget about capitalism?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you realize that you could hire somebody remote to do this
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: job at probably like half the salary?
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you could probably find somebody comparable if you cast a wider net.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: You are... you're doubling your salary cost for this role, probably.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well maybe not doubling, but you're significantly increasing your salary cost
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: for this role because you want all of the worker bees in your beautiful West
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Village office.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's not good capitalism.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: hand in your capitalism card.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're done.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're just wacko.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Be a better capitalist.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Gawd.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, it's really interesting to me.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, we'd said earlier that they mention that they acknowledge that this
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: role has a very broad scope.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then they say they'll tailor the scope
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: to your superpower so that you can have the highest impact and career
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: acceleration.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: What if you bring someone in at $230,000?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because tailoring it is gonna happen after they are hired,
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: and then the scope isn't.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Worth $230,000.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is a weird,
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: it's such a weird way to approach it.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I agree, I think that if you were to hire someone remote
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: for this organization, you could probably pay a little bit less.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: It also makes me wonder if this is the band for this role,
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: they're not an executive, like you said,
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: they're not a director, what the hell are they paying the founders
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: in this company?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: And like, the executive team.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine what these salaries are looking like.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's wild.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: The... definitely I'm very curious about who the investors
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: are in this.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: because being connected to Citadel,
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: like if one of the founders is formerly leadership at some capacity at Citadel,
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: they know the big money people.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I would guess that there's just like, a big gob of money sitting
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: on the balance sheet of this organization,
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: like uncommonly big.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: For a startup because of those connections to the finance industry.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: and they're just kind of spraying it around.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: And if the founders are former,
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know, big companies or whatever,
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: and they've already made a ton of money from their prior work
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: or their prior exits, maybe they're not drawing salary.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because there is a certain type of person,
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: a certain type of like founder with wealth that doesn't actually need money
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: in the terms of a salary.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're not.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: I will also tell you because I know the company and so I
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: did a little bit of digging.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: and in May they successfully raised
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: $78 million in a Series C funding round.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, $78M in a C?
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very small series C.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: prior to that, like this is 10 months after they raised $36 million in a series B.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: So
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's also not big.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: For New York finance,
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: those are very small rounds.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's very
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: interesting.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: okay, so that's the job.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's the job ad.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: The next part of what we're gonna do is... Paul,
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: who did not see the job ad ahead of time.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's gonna take a moment, he's gonna read through it from start to finish,
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: then he's going to rejoin us and we're gonna do the rating of the job ad.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so we rate out of 10 for the job ad itself,
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: how it's written, how it sounds,
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: what they thought about, and then we do another rating for the job design.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's more like, is it sustainable?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: Does it make sense?
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: career pathing and all that kind of stuff.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: job ad itself, out of 10,
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: how is it written?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: What do you,
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: what do you kind of like about it?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: What worked about it, what didn't in just the job ad itself?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on that?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it kind of pains me a little bit to say this, because
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: of how much I dislike about what's going on here,
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: but I would give the job ad a six.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: In my heart,
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: I want to give it a negative ten billion,
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm gonna give it a six.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: things that are going well for it,
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: that drive that six.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's well-structured,
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: it's well-written.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're very clear about... they're very clear about their grand mission.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're clear about why they're doing this.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're saying, hey, we think that
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: the winner in AI investment services or infrastructure
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: to support investment services that is powered by AI,
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: blah, blah, blah, is... the winner of that is gonna be a hundred billion dollar
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: company.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: We wanna be that company.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: They're really clear about that.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's positive.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: For like the job ad itself.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's honest as well.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: They say
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: flat out, flat out.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: They say this is not for everyone.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: These expectations are unreasonable.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: I concur.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're nuts, but you're honest about it.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you get some points there.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because there are some people who would gravitate to this.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: There are people out there
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: who would look at something absolutely unreasonable and say,
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: yes, that's for me, because I want to do the impossible.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: I want to challenge myself.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if on the the odd kind of chance that
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: it actually works out, I'm gonna make some bank.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I like that too.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: So they're honest about it.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: things that aren't so great about this,
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: there are tenuous arguments in here.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: So they're saying that they already have.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: Clients that have 10 trillion in assets under management.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's like the total value of their client base is already managing
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: 10 trillion in AUM.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big number.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: the publicly... the market capitalization of the NASDAQ
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: and the NYSE in the US is about $75 trillion.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: So they're saying our clients already have about one-seventh
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: the value of the two largest publicly traded exchanges.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: in the US and in the world, let's be honest about it.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: the US equities markets represent roughly 49% of the value
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: of global equities markets.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: So what these guys are saying is that they've already
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: got the clients that have massive,
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: massive, massively huge footprints.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: So my first question is like, okay,
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: and you want... you think that there's that much more of an opportunity that
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: you are pursuing this... full bore in the same kind of aggressive way.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: That sets off a bit of a bell for me.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder how much of that is grounded in reality.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that there's a lot that's grounded in reality with those numbers,
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: those statements.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: So like big,
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: big alarm bell for me.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I dock the marks for that because they're just
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: making up BS in their job ad.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's persuasive BS.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's BS though.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Job design, the role design.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: I am not favourable about this whatsoever.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a zero.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's a straight up zero.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: I want to rate
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: it a negative 10, but I only like dealing in,
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: you know, natural numbers or real numbers or whatever that...
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: we don't like negatives... is, on the show.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a zero out of 10. this is absolutely a zero out of 10 role design
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: for me because of a few different things.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, they don't know what the role design is.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of the first problem.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: and they pretty much say as such.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: Number two.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: They take a stab at it, but taking a stab at it,
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: they combine things in a way that doesn't make sense.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: They're writing a job ad for, well,
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: we want an operational leader.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: We want a person who will execute.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: We want a person who will come up with the grand strategy that will take
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: us to that hundred billion dollar corporate valuation so that we can
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: go make some money in an IPO or a liquidity event.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they're saying.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: they're saying that they want all of these different things in one person.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're not fully and accurately and fairly describing any of
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: the different areas that they want.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: They're just throwing some stuff into the pond.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that probably what they're saying with that "we'll tailor the
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: job to you" is that they don't know what they want.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: They don't know what they need.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to look for somebody that they can go grab a beer with
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: and then they'll make the role up after the fact on that.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's a terrible way to design a role for an organization that's actually going
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: to be successful and sustainable.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: But
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: maybe this isn't meant to be a sustainable company that's going
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: to be around forever.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe this is a big pump and dump scheme.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: two of the investors that are involved in this,
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm not gonna say which ones,
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: have gotten themselves in major,
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: major hot water.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: One of them was
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: did you do some research?
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: I did because one of the names sounded really familiar.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: One of the ones was...
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: slapped around by securities regulators in India really hard last year
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: for market manipulation.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: Not going to say which one it is,
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: y'all can Google that yourself.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: But that also kind of speaks to the culture that's going to be present
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: in this organization.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you have active investors behind a company,
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: their values and their priorities filter down into the organization.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: So this is not going to be a very ethical place to be.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I got...
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_01: I got questions.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're also kind of like filtering a little bit when they say
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: we don't want brilliant jerks.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna limit the amount of people who apply for this job
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: to about three because who works in New York finance that isn't a brilliant jerk
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: at this level
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: that will work for this amount of pay?
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've got I got nothing good to say
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: about the role design, so zero.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's fair.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: I... for the job ad itself,
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm about like a six or a seven,
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: which might sound surprising, but the thing is like they they know what they're
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: looking for and they've written the job
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: role for that.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think in the earlier days I would have been like this
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: is a zero.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is they they do know what they're looking for
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: and they have written the job for that individual.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: and so it is going to like capture the attention of certain people.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: who they are looking for.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about gender-coded language and this
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: is a really good example of that.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: When when we read this job description,
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think everybody watching or listening can picture someone in their head.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's gender-coded job descriptions.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: And they know what they're doing,
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: they know what they're looking for.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't expect anything less from a role from a company like this.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, they knew what they were looking for and
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: that's who they were speaking to.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're speaking to their their ideal candidates.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so sure, okay, fine, seven out of ten.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: For the job design, the role design,
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: same.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not sustainable.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't a job.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is a lifestyle.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like the it truly is.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is going to be someone's life,
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: not sustainable.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm also not sorry for the person who goes into
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: it because they know what they're getting themselves into.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like they absolutely know what they're getting themselves into.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, to me it's like a zero for that because it's not my thing.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: If it's your thing, then sure,
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: go for it.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: but otherwise,
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: yeah.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then we did have a vote.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is for this one.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was a four for both.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely not a winner here.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: if you do want to see it posted,
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that was it.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: That was another Roast the Post.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think we can consider this one roasted and toasted.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is roasted with the roastiest of roasting instruments I've ever roasted with.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: My god, make it stop.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: Make it stop.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is the world we live in now.