Latest / For All Nerds Show / Did A Black Woman Birth The MCU?!?? (VisionQuest Episode 5 & 6 Reaction, Recap & Review)

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Did A Black Woman Birth The MCU?!?? (VisionQuest Episode 5 & 6 Reaction, Recap & Review) · For All Nerds Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Let me start there first on the one hand black
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: women every time that's the that's the sentence black woman
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: it took a black woman for ultron to find some
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: humanity right it's a black woman is the reason why
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: jarvis and ultron exist from the very beginning she is
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: literally mother literally And welcome, Internet, to another episode of
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: For All Nerds. It is I, one of your hosts,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Tatiana King, a.k.a. Doc Aki, Coldest Winter Soldier Ever, Wicked
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Witch of the Westview, Tatiana Kang the Conqueror, and Dark
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Chocolate Phoenix.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: And as always, I'm joined by... Hi, everyone.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: It's Portia, a.k.a. Maester P. And I like to make
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: him say, hmm, a.k.a. X-Men's Rogue One, a.k.a. The original breadbender,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: because I like to make it stack.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Ooh, okay.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Shout out to you and Joel for the avatar reviews
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: that you've been doing.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Please, guys, make sure that if you're subscribed to us
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: on YouTube, you are checking those out.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: In the meantime, thank you for joining us right now
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: as we review or continue to review Vision Quest, episode
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: five titled Firewall and episode six titled Deadlock. Portia, after
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: watching these episodes, now that we are more than halfway
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: through the series, it's only eight episodes.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: We only got two more left.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Tell me how you're feeling about how we're rapidly approaching,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I guess, the answers to the mysteries at hand. How
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: you feel about the reveals this episode, or these episodes.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Tell me, how would you... What you think? I'm glad we.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: got to the root of all evil, which is Stark Industries.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Because I feel like that's been... I've been Stark Industries'
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: number one op since forever.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe not number one. But I have had.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: A vendetta against Tony Stark and his warmongering ways from
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: the beginning. And it's only been a matter of time before...
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I had a Black woman back in this cause and
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: I love that it's Jocasta and I'm here for it.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: And so when it comes to the mystery of it all,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I'm like, it comes down to war, megalomaniacs and money
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: at the end of it all. So I'm here for it.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: The questions of, like, we see that it was, like, S.W.O.R.D.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: who was the ones who were revealed to kind of, like,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: have sent the Paladin a code to try to kind
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: of take Vision back. So there's some answers about, like,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: is S.W.O.R.D. involved in all the stuff that's going on
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: with Paladin? You could say some, but we still know
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: the client is still not S.W.O.R.D. So it comes to
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: the mystery of it all and what we're set up
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: to find out next on that front. I don't know.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I'm only so much intrigued by the client component of
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: it all. I'm more intrigued by the questions that we've
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: been asking in this podcast around what are we doing?
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Are we giving personification to these AI or are these
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: AI actually embodying these emotions? Like what are we actually
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: being shown by this show? And what are we to
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: believe about kind of like the role of AI in
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: humanity and the idea that like, of people with a
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: lot of power having access to building out these sort
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: of things. And also, I think one of my favorite
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: parts of this little run, this little two-episode component of
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: it all, was kind of the time that it felt
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: like a little bit like Black Mirror.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, very much. The original one, it used to be
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: just the British actors, yes. Yeah. Um, I really enjoyed
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: that part.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Like I, whenever Jocasta kind of had her whole moment
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: and we were seeing like in not only in her space,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: but before that, when they did the staged theater kind
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: of component of like rewinding what had happened, I was like, oh,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: this is giving like, like, yes. Also like, you know,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: direct plays and stuff like that, but also like a
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: little bit of Black Mirror and like how like the
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: functionality of the machine is, And the actual, like, interpersonal
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: movement of it and seeing that all happening. So I
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: love that. And I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: on all these things. Because let me just tell you,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: there are some things that I hope we hit on.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: We probably are going to hit on in this discussion.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: But a lot of my favorite components had to do with, like,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: the toxic energy. Romantic relationship.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Girl. Girl. So let me start there. First, on the
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: one hand, Black women. Every time. That's the sentence. Black women.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: It took a Black woman for Ultron to find some humanity, right?
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: A Black woman is the reason why Jarvis and Ultron
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: exist from the very beginning.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: She is literally mother.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Literally mother. I thought now that was brilliant. You know,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I made a joke last time. I was like, why
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: the black woman got to be the bad guy. Right.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: But it obviously was way more than that. And it's
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: a lot of background.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I did appreciate how they brought up her background when
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: she was in, I guess, her human form.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I want to call her because in some ways she's, quote, evolved. Right.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: At least if you take it from Jocasta's point of view,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: when she was still just flesh and blood. how she
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: got from point A to point B was very interesting.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: And when they were talking.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: About how part of why she threw herself and her
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: work into AI and assumingly the recreation of life is
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: because of her dad, right?
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: And because of her dad had, they said, quote, a disease.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out was it like Alzheimer's
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: or something like that or some combination of things because
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: they didn't really exactly say what it was.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: They just said a disease. A degenerative disease. A degenerative disease,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: which I felt like I put two and two together.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: So many, yeah.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: But also the fact that it was something that she
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: inherited and.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Again, the show is so.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Smart in how it writes themes and the understandings between
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: the characters.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: And they did it again. And they do it so adeptly.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: We talk about things like family and what you inherit
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: from family. And we were talking a lot last show
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: about what does Speed inherit from Speed, aka Tommy? What
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: did he inherit from his parents? And what did Billy inherit?
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: And what does all these people inherit? And all the
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: different layers of the father-son relationships that we see between
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: all the different characters, Vision and his son, and then
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Ultron and Vision and all these other people. And it
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: is a large reference. It's almost like everything is a
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: reference to each other within this show. For those who
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: are like real nerds who be like using Excel and
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, when you think about circular references, things
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: that reference itself and doesn't necessarily have a definition, like
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: that's how I feel about a lot of the different
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: aspects of the show. Like all the AI are referencing
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: each themselves in a way, right? They are, their movements,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: their actions that they do, the, the things that you
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: learn about each one of them, it's actually derivative of
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: something else that came before it and building upon that. And,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: and in real life as humans.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: That's just like, what? That's just your offspring, right?
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: But then to see how they are translating that from
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: a machine component, right? From an AI perspective. And as mentioned,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: when Jocasta is doing this because of like, you know,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: her father apparently was her world. And for that to
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: like push her to want to do this. And as
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: they tend to do in stories like this, like that person.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Is well-meaning and then they take it a little bit
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: too far, right?
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: And depending on what side of the fence you sit on,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: her essentially uploading her consciousness, was that her taking stuff
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: too far, right?
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Or was she being innovative when she did that?
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Also the question of like, would she have pushed it
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: that far if she hadn't been influenced by having sold
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: off Like, them selling off her life's work, her father. Like,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: it's one thing to sell off somebody's work, which is
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: already a problem.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Like, already.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: We can all acknowledge that. But that was her father's voice. Like,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: whenever we heard that, that was her programming her father.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: And she never got to the point where she was
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: able to, you know, because her father had passed away, right?
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: So she didn't upload her to Father's Consciousness.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: So I guess that's one.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: area of like ethics we can like be assured but
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: like that's not what tony did but overall they did
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: take something that was not just inspired by her father
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: but actually had her father's voice on it yeah man
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: and it's so took it away from her well manufacturer
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: while she was getting treatment for the same disease that
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: led her to create the thing in the first place
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: so Not to deny her her agency in the choices
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: and decisions that she made, but the idea of going
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: too far when someone has already intruded upon you too far,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: you can see that would feel just justified because it's like, well,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not going too far if this is where we are.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: If this is where we're playing the game at, then sure, here,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: this is where I'm going to go. I'm going to
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: trespass on others who trespass upon me type stuff.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Okay. And that's why I like her killing them too.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: That's probably in her.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Y'all didn't care about how I was dying, so why.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Should I care whenever you die? Do you think that
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: was justified that she took it to the point where
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: she was like, oh, y'all gotta go? I think it's
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: interesting that she, like, all of them were the code.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Yes.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Like, it may have been goodwill for her to include
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: all of them in being the locks to her, like, yeah,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: the keys to her locks in the first place because
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: she didn't have to do that. She could have been
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: very selfish about it and made it something only about
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: her biometrics and no one else would have been able
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: to have access. She made it a team. unlocking experience
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: only for them to betray her so now she's like well.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: I got nothing else to lose now.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: You've betrayed me so I can betray you by taking
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: your shit literally your life I'll take it right Hey, listen, man,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: they make villains for less.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: So I guess it's justified in many ways.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: And when I had mentioned, like, when we were talking about, like,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: this relationship between her and Ultron, I said, on the.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: One hand, it's like, wow, like, it took this, and this.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Is why Ultron got swag now and all this other stuff.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: And then on the other hand, I felt a lot
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: like Edith and the other AI, but I was like,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: like I was disgusted because here are again, technically two
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: AI approximating what is supposed to be a romance and
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: all this other stuff. And, That goes back to the argument,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: not argument, but question I raised to you and Ben,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: which was just like, are these AI for real, essentially?
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Are they really feeling emotion? Are they really this? Are
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: they really that?
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Ultron made mention of what I think is one of
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: the markers, what I said, like there has to be
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: some test, some litmus test to determine whether or not
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: this thing is, quote, alive. And he had said not
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: only does it have to think for itself, but it
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: also has to have the ability to feel alive. And
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: that is what the AIs have all typically been missing,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: the ability to feel. That's what happened with that very
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: first AI prototype that they made that burned up.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I guess it was filling, but it was filling too much.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: There was no regulator on it, but they still hadn't
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: quite achieved what that means to feel and emote.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: And Ultron kept saying that over and over again in different.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Ways, just when he was talking about things like, well,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: when I take a drink, I, I know that the
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: combination of the chemicals and this and that, and this
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: is what it's for, but I don't feel it.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Like I don't feel the warmth of the drink.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: I don't feel the chaoticness that goes to your brain
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: when you have a little bit too much to drink
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: and now you're, you're toasted, right? It's a very intrinsically
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: human trait and an approach that is required in order
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: to be alive. And it, reads to me similar to
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: what i was saying last episode just about like i
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: said well ultron is a jealous girl first of all
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: ultron is an old stunt queen very old stunt queen
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: that always up to the shenanigans and i had mentioned
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: i said that i felt ultron was jealous because he
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: couldn't be with the gang and by that i mean
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: he couldn't really get to the spaces that the rest
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: of these people was getting whether it's just him allowing
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: himself to or he because he's missing that critical component
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: the soul or whatever it is that he's missing to
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: get there and Whereas other AI were like starting to get.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: There, right? Edith, Friday were getting there on their own.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: They have their own journeys.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Ultron, excuse me, not Ultron, but Vision himself, Vision 2.0,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: White Vision, if you will. So it's interesting seeing this
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: kind of all kind of come all together this episode
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: and then for him to be called out for it.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: when he was at the bar with Tommy and Tommy
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: read him down and just said, you are, you're lonely.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: You're this and you're that. And, and he didn't say
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: the word yellow, but that's what he meant. He says,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: you wish you could be us. You wish you could
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: be down with the crew and you're not. And it's,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: it's clear in his, his, actions for me, for when
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: it comes to Ultron.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: And he even said that you're afraid. And it's true.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Like Ultron is afraid of never be, I was, I guess,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: afraid of never being able to reach that pinnacle of
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: what it means to be alive and be a true
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: being and experience things like others who are trying to
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: be human can experience. So yeah, All that to say,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: for him to now start getting that with Jocasta, and
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: while I was disgusted by it, at the same time,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, this thing is really evolving beyond.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: He's still a prick. He's still this. He's still that.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: He still is no more than a, quote, jealous god.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, he's actually gaining
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: the experience.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: For the gods of it.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: All, at least they have some actual flesh and sentience and, like,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: ability to touch and do things, right? I think what
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: this is getting is, like, us, the idea of, like,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Ultron as, like, the ultimate, like, edgelord, like, emo boy,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: where he is really just sad that he, like, he's...
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: but if Rudolph was a cynical sort of optimistic, right? Like,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: he got left out of all the Reindeer games, and
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: so instead of actually, like, building out something for himself,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: he's kind of, like, hijacking on other people, and, like,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: that's the appeal of Jocasta for him, is, like, as
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: soon as he finds out that she was once human, that, like,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: he's been chasing uniqueness this whole time, and, like, chasing
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: the idea of his own uniqueness, And so the idea
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: that getting anywhere closer to the human experience, despite the
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: fact that he says that he despises humans, I think
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: that's the ultimate sad boy of it all, right? Is that, like,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: when he's confronted by Tommy about the whole fact that
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: he took out 177 lives and he's.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, they were meaningless. He says it. Yeah.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: But he would not be chasing for the semblance of
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: human life if he didn't recognize there's a level of
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: value and what he just said was actually a lie. Like,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: he is someone who, it's not that he's just hypocritical.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Or that he's full of contradictions and misconceptions. It's that
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: the more time he spends understanding and gathering data on
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: human life, the more time he spent recognizing that he
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: processed stuff like a machine. And he seems, if not
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: disgusted by the fact that he processed things like an
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: ordinary machine, he's at some sort of discomfort about it all.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: And that's why whenever he has a discussion about vision,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: whenever Tommy starts to.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Ask, does vision....
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Ultron supplies love.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know that... Tommy.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Might have had a different kind of actual question there.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: And I wonder if we might get there later. Will
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: he ask vision directly? What he really wants to know
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: about how vision moves. I don't know if love is
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: necessarily what Tommy's the most... concerned about with Vision, but
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: we'll get there. What do you think he's most concerned about?
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: There's a capacity thing. Like, is there something in Vision
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: that would, like, where he should actually warrant trust?
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Like, he should actually, like, even if he's not... Fully
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: his father? Fully his father.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: If he's not fully human, what is he actually able
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: to get from this relationship with Vision? Like, what can
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: he actually expect? And, like, what is it worth him, like,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: actually building out with Vision? So, I think, you know, like, yeah,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: that could be tied to the idea of father or
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: parent or whatever, but there's other things that he could
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: be looking.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: For with Vision. Yeah. Definitely.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't the ultimate goal be love though? Like Tommy has been,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: as far as we know, has been alone. He's been
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: an orphan and that's kind of the first stop little
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: orphan Annie, like, cause you don't got no love.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Right. So is it eventually he's going to want to
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: be there, right?
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Like, yes. Is this, is this machine capable of more?
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Is this machine that is the closest thing I have
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: to a father capable of more and somebody who's validating
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the experiences that I'm seeing in my head that I'm.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Seeing in my thoughts, right. but have are not even
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: sure that they're real.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: And then the guy comes in and says, yes, everything
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: you thought you saw or thought you felt was real.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, shit, if that's the case, then
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: I want my family.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I want that. I want my brother. I want all
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: this stuff. Like, Tommy did have those.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Flashbacks again during the episodes, and particularly the one point
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: where him and Billy were being decompiled or whatever. And
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: he was promised that we'll always be together or find
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: each other, whatever he said specifically.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: But the point was just having that connection.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: And maybe that's the other word of it's not just love,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: but a derivative of the connection that he wants.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Some form of connection. He wants care. He wants someone
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: to care about him.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: And like, is that not love?
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is love.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: But as Ultron says, what Vision sees when he sees
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: an apple is zeros and ones.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: It's code.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: He sees the nutrients and what it's good for and
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: what it puts into your human body, right? Or what
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: it puts into your body. What... That's also what he's
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: capable of. Whenever he's talking to Jocasta and he's like, yeah,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: you're having this drink and it means nothing to me.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Because like you said, it doesn't give me that human intoxication.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I don't see that slow release of like inhibitions, all
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: those things.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: And I think about that.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: And, you know, we say this about like, oh, like
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: that's something that's the human experience. It's dogs get drunk
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: by accident, you know, most of the time.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: But like....
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Cats get a little, like.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Hazy off some catnip. You know what I mean?
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Like, there are just beings who just are sentient beings
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: that are not machines.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: They get to have those experiences.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: And so, in contrast, like, Ultron and Vision and Edith
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: and Friday, they are no further evolved than the base
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: sentient being on this planet. Yeah.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Like, it doesn't have to be human. It can literally
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: be anything else.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: So you do believe that they are sentient, but they're
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: not human level?
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: That's what you're saying? I don't know.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I think I have so many questions about, lived experience
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: when it comes to them. I think it's their adoption
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: of romantic movement, thought, expression. Is that any different than
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: anyone who's putting on a performance for someone that they
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: are trying to win over, but they don't really... actually
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: believe in what they're performing. Friday believes in what she
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: performing Jarvis did. And I guess that keeps saying that
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: like Friday's conviction, like, especially I keep going back to
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: when she was talking about the end game, right. With
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Tony dying, all that stuff. And the essential grief that
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: she was feeling. And you can tell, like, she's always
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: felt a way about it since then.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Like she's always just trying to protect from catastrophe, like
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: all the time.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: In a manner that's beyond just the normal level of protection.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: It's just like, I've got to be overprotective because you
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: will die. She heard Tony Stark talk about an armor
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: around the world, and she took that personally. That is
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: her one directive that she's never let go of.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: It's like a suit of armor around the world.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: So that's her... I think it's interesting. I think in
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: episode 5... When Vision takes a moment and he... I'm
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: looking at my notes to double check what my thought
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: is on this.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: When Vision takes a moment and he says that... He
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: said a lot.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: He did say a lot. But with Friday in particular,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: she's over there and she's like, oh yeah. So they're
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: trying to reconstruct what it is that Alphonse has been doing.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Okay. And when Friday is.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Like caught up on the idea of, Of, like, okay,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: we cannot let him breach the firewall. That is the
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: one thing he wants to do. We can't drop the
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: firewalls and let him out. We know that if we
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: do the thing that he wants us to do, like,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: that's what he's been building up to this whole time,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: we'll be feeding into what he wants, and we cannot
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: let him free into the universe again.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: That is highly irresponsible. We just cannot do this.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: And... Also, she does name, that's what Jarvis spent his
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: life on.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Like, that was what Jarvis did.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Your big bro's work. His life work.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: So, and again, Vision is the one who pushed to...
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: We still don't even know how Vision found Ultron in
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: the first place, to have him inside of his processors,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: but here we are. And so, Vision, on the other hand,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: this is like, this is... One of the reasons why
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I enjoy how this show is going, because I think
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of times people, we get stuck on, we
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: make a mistake. And we could see that mistake coming.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: And then everyone around us is like, well, why did
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: you do that? You could have seen that with.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: A 10-foot pole.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I would have known that.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: That'd be me.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: But that's what Friday said. That's exactly where Friday was, right?
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: That's where she was. Even at the beginning of episode five,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: she was me. Remember, I was like, I know I'm harsh,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: but I'm going in on Vision. Like, why the fuck
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: would you save Ultron? She was just like... She literally
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: said to him, to Vision, why would you do that? Like,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: you knew what it was when you signed up. You
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: knew that he was going to do this. Like, why
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: would you give him control? Now we got to fix this. Like,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: and she wasn't being like extra mean to him about it,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: but she was just like, bro, what did you expect?
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: But here's the thing.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: I think getting caught up on what we know limits
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: us to what could be. And I think that's what Vision...
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Vision never knew the answer, but he's chasing the answer.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: He's curious about it. And I think what we see
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: play out is Vision has always been stuck on what
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: does Ultron know that he should know? Because Ultron has
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: always played this above-it-all kind of perspective, where he's like, oh,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: you silly human person, whoever he's speaking to.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Silly goose. You know you have all.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: This information in front of you, and yet you don't
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: know the simplest way to do anything about it. Whereas I,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: who has been processing these things from all these different
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: times and channels, I can see where you'd go wrong
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: in so many different ways. I can run regressions and progressions.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I can do all these things. And I still, I'm
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: a friend of you. Some steps ahead.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I got this.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: And Vision has that in his brain where he's like,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: he's been through his experiences. Talking about Ultimate Sad Boy,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Vision is the Ultimate Sad Boy, which we can get
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: to his last scene that we see in these two episodes.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: He is so wrapped up in trying.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: To figure out his place in the world that Where
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Ultron has been trying to act as if he's so
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: aware of his place in the world. And he don't know.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: He don't know either.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: But the Vision seeing that has had him in a
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: place where he's at least questioned, like, what does he
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: know that I don't know? And how do I know it?
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: So when Friday is making that whole point about, like,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: why would you do that? How did you get caught up?
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: He's in a place of like, no, no, no, don't
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: get stuck. on what happened or what will happen if
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: we let him out. Like, let's finish the story. If
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: he gets out, he's going to go. Where is he
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: going to go? And why is he going there? And
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: that builds out a clearer picture of what is happening here.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: So I think in a way that Friday wants to
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: build an arm around the world in the way that
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: was originally Tony Stark's vision and the way that Jarvis
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: was a support for that to happen.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Vision is the next evolution of that, right?
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: He's supposed to be. Vision is, okay, you can't keep
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: things out or keep things in.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: That is not the answer.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: For how to work these things out, right? Kind of
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: like an abolitionist kind of standpoint, right? If you're saying
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Friday and Jarvis are kind of like the cultural state,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: how to keep things locked in.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Status quo.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: You have an era, you get punished, and that means solitation,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: like solitary, right? Vision is kind of like... And then
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: abolition is kind of like, okay, what happens when... What
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: happens next? If we allow someone who has committed grave errors,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: murdered people... to actually take the next step and follow
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: them after they've been incarcerated. What happens next? What do
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: they choose to do after they've been, quote-unquote, rehabilitated?
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: What does that look like?
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: See, and that's the thing. That requires a level of
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: trust that I, on Friday, do not have. Like, I don't, like...
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: I'm not there to say, well, let's see if he
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: chooses a different path. Like, they even had that conversation about...
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Vision likened it to a coin flip. He said, I
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: don't want to deal with the coin flip today about
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: whether or not you want to destroy humanity or not,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: or whether you feel like fucking with us or not.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: I couldn't deal with that.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: It's a 50-50 whether or not you want to be
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: exploratory today or whether you just want to be destructive today.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to take that chance.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: It's too much. I'm more risk averse. Like I said,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: I'm more on a Friday side. I'm more like.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: No, because it's a high probability that you're going to
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: do some fuck shit.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: So why bother? Why sit there and think the what ifs?
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Like, it sounds nice on paper, but then when or
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: if it turns into what Jocasta and Ultron are doing now,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: which is trying to enslave.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Humanity, I'm just like, so why the fuck did we
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: do this, right? Now, granted, granted.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Once you start figuring out what the end game is for,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: from Ultron side, then you can start figuring out how
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: to nullify or how to mitigate it. But at the
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: end of the day, sometimes I'd be like, do we
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: have to go through the suffering to get there? Like,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: could we have done this a different way? And that's
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: where I'd be on the other side of the fence. Like, nah,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: we out letting this nigga out. Guess we're all trapped
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: here forever. Like, but I get it without taking that
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: leap of faith, if you will, you not, You may
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: not necessarily find the answers or you may not necessarily
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: complete the story. Literally, this story would go nowhere if
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: they was able to just if Friday was like, no,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: we never drop in the firewall.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: OK, well, then nothing gets done, at least not to
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: the effect of where where where Vision and the rest
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: of the team could do something about it.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Right. To really fix things, fix the situation. I don't know.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: That said, that whole, real quick, just this whole plan
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: with the little nanobots. And that's, again, what I said,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: there's taking things too far and then there's taking things
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: too far. So I wanted to talk about Jocasta's philosophy
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: about how, and originally her whole thing was, well, maybe
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: we need to put more humanity into machinery and robots
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: and all this other stuff. And because of what was
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: done to her, what was, when she was trespassed upon
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: and all this other stuff, she was just like, actually, nigga,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: let's do it the other way around. Let's put some
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: more of the robots in everybody else. So I just, I,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: at that point, I'm just like, okay, can we, can
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: we fault her now? Can we fault her for, for,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: for now you're, you're jumping into supervillain territory. Like at
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: what point do we be like, okay, girl, you're not
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: just being innovative and new on this.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: You, you, you're doing too much.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: I want to just take a step and just say this,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: and it might sound there, but it was a funny
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: observation to me. It really felt like she is both
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: of the brothers from Big Hero 6. 6. She has
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: the nanobots like the older brother. She started off trying
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: to create.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: A Baymax, basically.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: And so, for me, it's just like a funny.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: like Disney property kind of moment. Cause it was like,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: are we doing different ways of doing shit? But like,
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: it's fun. I'm like, I'm into it.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: I think that it's interesting because like, I like to,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: because at some point Tony Stark, his whole gear was
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: about nanobots. And so, but his was the first way around.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Which was, let's gear up using the bots. Like, humans
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: use the bots for bot usage or whatever, instead of
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: the implanting component, right?
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: So how much of it is also just Jocasta.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Being like, I'm going to do whatever the opposite of
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Tony Stark is. And let me tell you that my
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: real theory behind a lot of what's happening here is
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: her anti-Stark because I think that's also why she chooses...
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: She could have chosen anyone in the world to implant
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: for the first time ever, right? She could have chosen
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: a leader, a world leader somewhere. She could have chosen
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: someone who is in trajectory... She could have continued getting
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: revenge on the people who got trespassed against her. She
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: could have went after one of their kin or something
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: She.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: chose initially to go after Tommy Tommy but you know
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: but would you say that might be related to like
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Vision being the one unit in the world that might
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: be able to take her out as she was trying
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: so like you know kind of work with that but
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I think what underlies it all is that the vision
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: was created by who? Tony Stark. So she's, like, anything
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: that's related to Tony Stark, I would keep an eye
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: on how close is she trying to, like, rip apart
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: this man's legacy.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: She wants to destroy it, right? She wants to fuck
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: it up. Yeah.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: And Ultron did note that, hey, this is, and I
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: guess the other reason why she didn't, like you said,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: go after somebody more significant or a world leader or whatever,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: she was still testing.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: She didn't really actually use it like this yet. But
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. You know what I mean? If you're
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: going to go for a world leader and they die, okay, well. Well,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, it kind of, well, yeah. Yeah, excuse me. Yes,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Jocasta Jr. And it's like, did.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: You have to go, like, if you're testing, you're going
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: to test on a guinea pig. You're not going to
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: test it on the big asset that you're not trying
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: to necessarily lose, right? If you have a potential asset
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: you don't want to mess that up so let's do
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: it just like with any science experiment you're gonna do
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: something that's inconsequential you're gonna do the test there first
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: and then if it works to your liking then you're
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: gonna move on to something you actually care about.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: Right so the way that they be moving i do.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Like what you're saying about tony about her just wanting
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: to destroy anything at his legacy.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah so and you know and that may be related
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: to my own junior he was just like girl whatever
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: you gotta do to fucking shit up i don't care
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: you're gonna have to start.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: They said cool cool cool we all get enslaved but
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: it's the spikes on each other not me not me
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: I'm not working for Stark girl let me tell you
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: let me I will help you however you need to
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: take down Stark but I'm not going oh my god
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: don't don't do that part I don't want to be anymore.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: I don't want to go to the second place. Please
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: leave me. So I think there's like a lot... Jocasta.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: I'll have to get back to her. You can get
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: back to her, man. This is where we at.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: At some point. No, I'm just laughing because I'm like...
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: I probably at some point am going to be like
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: a Jocasta appreciation moment.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Just like... Woman Crush Wednesday. Thank you for telling me
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: what now about Jocasta. I've evolved.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Which.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Which, talking about evolution, I.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Thought it was interesting and a little derivative, again, that
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: she essentially wanted to turn... They were the Borg, again. Like, okay,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: she liking everybody. As I was watching those starlings, I
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: was just like, well, why wouldn't everybody else just be
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: like a starling and we're all one hive mind?
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh!
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Like, that's uninspired to me because we've seen that done
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: many times. And I get the reasonings behind it and
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: all that stuff, but I will say as a as
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: an idea for this specific character, I was just like, okay,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: y'all could have did a little better with that. Like
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: from a narrative perspective, I was just like, all right,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: we turn everybody into one and you leave them and
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: you ultimately, I don't know. It just, it just, I
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: use the word uninspired. It just felt like, okay, girl,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: we could have came up with a better.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: You're brilliant. You could have came up with a better
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: plan than that.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Even worse than it being uninspired, it is like she is,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: for better or worse, like this is what we are
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: as Black folk. We are the descendants of a highly
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: human trafficked race that was enslaved.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Why would.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: It's like whenever we talk about the stories of people
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: who have hung themselves, Black people.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Don't do that.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Are not going to do that.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: They're not going to do that.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: There are other ways... It means when people are going
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: through that kind of state to do things as Black
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: folk that are probably not, that are like just more
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: likely statistically because of like our options and availability and
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: like proximity to things, then it would be to publicly
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: take your body and do something that's reminiscent to something
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: that historically has frightened our community for centuries, right? And
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: especially when there's unrest, especially when there's resistance, like there's
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: just it's can it happen?
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Is it likely statistically?
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: No.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: So for it to be to put that's a whole.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, Portia, because, yes, I
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: will ask the question then in that now current time
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: of who or what she is, is she black? Right?
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Because she's, she's, she's, she's, she's, I had thought for
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: a minute, I thought it was like Ultron's daughter.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: No, apparently this is Ultron's lover. Mother, mother lover. Mother lover.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: She's Oedipus now.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Oedipus, yeah, that was nasty. Again, I felt disgusted. And
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: all the cat and mouse dialogue, I was just like, ew, ew,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: I dead ass felt like, ew, please stop.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, I gotta tell you about the dialogue that I
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: liked by some point, but we'll get to finish your thought.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: It was funny, but I was just like, stop it.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but, but, but, but again, what you're saying is
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: absolute facts. At the same time, as she currently stands,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: is she even Black at this point? Is there Blackness
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: there anymore? Because she's not even a human anymore.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, you may have. She don't even have all her memories,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: number one.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Number two, she still has those experiences of being human,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: which is what Ultron was essentially jealous about, but also
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: like longing for. At the end of the day, though,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: that she's not, she even said it by the end
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: of their banter. She was like, I realized that I'm
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: getting further away from my humanity because you're not a
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: human no more. So now can we subscribe these now
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: cultural things to her? Because on regular paper, what you
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: said was absolutely a fact. Why would I, even as
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: a supervillain, everybody knows that when I get my powers,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going villain, but I'm not a slave in the world.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I don't even care about you. I don't want people
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: around me like that. Mm-mm. Like, no.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: So, and also just from a cultural perspective, that's not
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: something I would even think about. Like, that doesn't come
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: to mind, you know?
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: It doesn't even sound like a fun time.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Like, I'm going to have powers. I'm going to have fun.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: What it did sound and what it was likened to,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: to me, is a very Ultron thing to do. It
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: was more like a continuation of a typical Ultron idea.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Or plan.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: And for them to commiserate on that and be like, oh,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: I love you, you know, for that, I was just like, mm, okay, girl.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Part of me is like, so part of what I've,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: the whole time that was happening, I was hoping that
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: what was actually happening is that she's playing into him
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: to get what she wants.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Because you cannot forget at the end of.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: The day that she still does not have what she
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: wants from him. She told him That she wanted that code.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: He said, it's wrapped up in the me.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: So if you want it, you're going to have to, like,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: let me give it to you when I want to
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: give it to you.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Which, if that ain't a man, trying to turn the.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Girl.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: And I was just like, do they have to have, like,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: relations in order for her to get it? And then
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: how do robots do that? Are we just going to
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: do binary code at each other?
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: And that's the... OnlyFans? Boom, boom, boom.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But what I want to say was
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: that I think... So part of me is on that.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Part of me is also on... I just feel like it's...
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: And if there is a.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Black writer anywhere related to this, I just cannot see....
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Her having her very black father go through something so
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: horrific only to have these white folks that she worked
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: around take that stuff and sell it off to a
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: worse white man creating war weapons using her father's voice.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: And her not having that be at the center of
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: of her whole vendetta against all of them. Like, for
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: that vendetta to live on without her having that reasoning
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: of how they co-opted a Black man's life even after
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: his death not be part of it, I just cannot
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: see that happen. But that's if there's Black people in this.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: At least from the IMDb, I don't see not Nan....
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: But shout out to Tania Miller, who is the actress
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: that plays Jocasta. She's also been on, she gave me
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Doctor Who vibes. Apparently she has been on some version.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Of Doctor Who.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Of usher i think she's the one in the house
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: of us the fall of the house of usher yeah
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: she's uh she was in something called the peripheral foundation
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: some other stuff i mean she's been in a lot
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: of stuff she's been active for since early 2000s shows.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: So shout to her.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: And then she was also a scientist in the fall
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: of the House of Usher. Like she was like a surgeon.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: So like she, like she played this like very clinical
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: role very well.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And as much as when I mentioned that the
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: dialogue between her and Vision, excuse me, her and Ultron,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: as much as that, it was disgusting. It was also
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: like kind of funny too, how like, It's similar to
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: what you said. She's trying to get what she wants
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: out of him and they're both playing each other. And
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: it is like the prototypical... villain on villain relationship where
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: it's just like I don't really fuck with you or
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: really trust you but I'm just gonna do this for
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: the moment because this is it works towards my needs
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: right now and I'm gonna flirt with you and this
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: that and third but in the next moment I could
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: kill you and she even says that she was just
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: like I'm just thinking about whether I should kill you
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: where you stand or let you ride and I I
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting to watch that cat and mouse game
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: a lot because you really are thinking.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: About who's going to prevail.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Just like when he first, Ultron first came into her
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: mind space and when she gave the drinks, I was like, oh,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: she about to poison that nigga. Like, that's the first
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: thing I thought. And then for him to do it
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: in a different way, I was like, see, she ready. Like,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: she just wants that man to give the code, give
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: the facial recognition and call it a day. I just
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: think it's... I think it's so many things here. Whenever
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: they first have that conversation that we see staged in
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Vision's mind, and she basically invites him in.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Again, the entendre there, she invites him in.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Invites him in, yep.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: And very vampire lore going on here, too, as well, so.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: She says, like, basically, what's happening there, because, like, she's
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: talking to... Ultron, while he is in Vision's form, but
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: the whole time we see that discussion, we see it
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: from him in his Ultron form, like the humanoid version
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: and also the robot side. Because what we're seeing is
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: a Vision. We're all, as the audience, in Vision seeing
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: the other person. We're not seeing Vision's facade.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: We see Vision's facade there whenever in and out with Tommy,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: but we don't see it with her at all. But
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: we know.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: That's what's actually happening whenever this conversation took place. So
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: the main thing for me that I picked up on
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: that was that she does not feel threatened, even in
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: the moment where she's aware that he has taken over
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: the persons who allowed him inside their processors, whatever. She
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: does not feel that she needs to be on high
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: alert about him being in hers.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: And she actually is playing his ego. Yes. Talking back
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: about ego and id.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: She's playing his ego that he feels safe enough to
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: abandon Vision to come into her because he thinks that
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: he can do the same shit that he pulled on
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Vision on her.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: She's playing into it.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: She knows exactly what he's done.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: She knows the overreactions, everything, right?
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And she still feels confident enough to invite him inside.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: So, that's how I know.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: She's like, before he even showed.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Up inside of her. Hey, yo. Oh, God.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Hey, yo.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Before he showed up. All right. I know what you mean, though. But,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: you know, I have a question about that, too.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Like, It's tough, and they purposely are making it tough
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: to really understand who has the upper hand here. Just
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: like when he cut himself and it was laced with
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: the virus, and then he was like, well, I'm the
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: older stunt queen, so I know all these tricks and stuff.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids. Yeah, and she at
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: least outwardly seemed scared, like, oh, shit, I didn't account
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: for this. She performed scared.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Did she perform scared or was she like literally like, oh,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: I was bested by this elder code.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Like what, what, which one was it?
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Did she perform scared or was she bested by the code?
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Did she perform like, I'm going to tell you all
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: the answers to all the questions so you can finally
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: give me the key like you promised me.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Is she actually giving him the answers or is she
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: feeding him false information?
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Or is she just going to improv? Because at the end,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: you got to think on your toes like, oh, that
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: didn't work. Let me act like I know what I'm
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: talking about.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: Let me play into his ego.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Right. Like, so she's like, so far I've been able
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: to play into his ego and get him to do
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: what I want. I want him to come into my body.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: He came because I've played into his ego. Sorry.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: It doesn't stop with you, Portia. My God. And my
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: ace ass is just like.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: Anyways, I think for me, I think that's part of
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: why I think it's... Like, you say funny.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: I have.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: I really... You know, don't judge me too hard, y'all.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: I'm really into, like, toxic relationships. That's funny.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Not personally.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: You're entertained by it.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: But it is fun for me. Same. And so, their whole... Like,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: specifically the scene... Where she's like, what do you want?
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: And he says, I want to know you. And she's like,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: I want to be known.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: And then... That's why I was like, oh, she's playing
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: the shit out of him. Like, I don't want to
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: know you, nigga. Like, I just... I was like, no, no, no.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: She's just doing this to get what she needs.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: Because she knows what he did. But I got to
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: finish off the scene, Tati, because it really... She said,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: I want to be known, but it'll hurt. And he said,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: so hurt me. I was like, now see?
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: This is my shit. This is the toxicity that I
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: fuck with. Because what... It was giving... It was giving
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Zeus TV... to be I was like y'all don't shut
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: up like please but again it's just like y'all are
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: calculating against each other y'all know the other is too
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: damn smart and it's just.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Like how do I how do I win against this
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: like it's because you know I'm seeing right through that
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: stuff like like yes it's entertainment at the end of
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: the day I'm just like these niggas don't like each
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: other for real for real like that you know until
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: that faithful moment when Ultron takes that drink at the
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: end it's like oh I taste the the bubbly He
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: got a taste.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: I got the feeling.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: And here we go back to the old stories from
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: all the old myths and things. Is that not the
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: forbidden fruit? Now he's getting his first whiff of what
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: he does.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Now they're going to get kicked out of Eden. Eden being,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: you know, being a proverbial, always living AI, right? Like
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: that could do anything essentially. That's a question.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: I wanted to mention the use of Madripoor. I feel
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: like they throw in magic. Now, I understand why they
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: mentioned magic because they're trying to tie in the Ten
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Rings and that side of the world and.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: All this other stuff.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: But it's also just like, is there nowhere else in
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: the MCU to throw in? Like, it's just like you
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: only got so many locations and then magic where it
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: always comes up over and over and over again. Like,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's been, I don't know how many
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: different properties you really paid attention and watched.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Recently portioned but it's just like it seems very like
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: common that somebody's ending up or going to Magiport and
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Magiport is a very.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Important place in the comics and it's a lot of
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: implications there but it was just like from an MTGZU
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: perspective I was like oh we're back here again like
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: I just didn't expect it the last time I watched
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: a property that had Magiport in it was Falcon and
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Winter Soldier or was it the other one no it
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: was Falcon and Winter Soldier Falcon and Winter Soldier was
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: one of them That's the last time I noticed Madripoor
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: actually show up. Because that's whenever Agent Carter was there.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: The other Carter. That's the last time I have had
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: any scenes of Madripoor. I've heard Madripoor come up. Maybe
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: not scenes, but it's like come up. And it's like,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: that's the place to go.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Just everything. There's always being referenced all the time.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: For me, I was like, finally, we're back in Madripoor.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Because it's been years since you physically be there. And
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: so for me, I just was thinking that like, Magipor
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: is criminally underused to be in everybody's mouths all the time. Like,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: thanks for actually putting us back there.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Because y'all want to talk about it all the time.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Put us there. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. That's where I
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: was sitting.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: It was in Falcon.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: It was Falcon and Winter Soldier. It was a movie.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Y'all know what I'm talking about. Because, like, Bucky. What's
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: his face? Falcon and Winter Soldier, the show. Zeno. Zemo
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: was there. Yeah, that was the show. That was the
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: show on Disney +. Yeah.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: But what was the movie with the two of them? Oh,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Brave New World or whatever?
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Okay. Okay.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: I did not watch that.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: I didn't watch that. If that's Madripoor in there, I
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: don't know. But for me, so just to say, I
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: liked that they went back to Madripoor. I think that
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: they did not make Madripoor seem... I'm hoping that in
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: the next episode or two... it makes, there's a reason
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: why they have to be in Madripoor because nothing that
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: happened there was like, oh, only Madripoor could they, the
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: only thing that really happened that I kind of felt
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: that way was, was like when everybody.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: The shootout. Yeah. Well, that's what I was saying. Like
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: nobody's going to do nothing.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: They wanted to make the connection to the Ten Rings
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: because they said that at the very beginning episode, they
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: mentioned the Ten Rings and that's like where Paladin got
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: his armor and all this stuff from. And then Raza Al-Azhar,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: the guy, the main guy who allegedly works for the client,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: he came. And he's a 10 ring person. So at
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: least in this, he's part of the 10 ring. And
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: the 10 ring soldiers that came out. And that's that
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: side of the world. If we're talking about the 10 rings,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: then you're talking about, what's my man, Shang-Chi and the
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: rest of them. So that's why I was like, okay,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: that that was their purpose of going over there.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, so are we going to pull that in?
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: And then it still leaves the door open to who
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: is the client. For me, I just think it's more that, like, yeah,
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: I hear you, but I also just feel like it's like,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: if magic rapport does not have a tradition, you know
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: what I mean? If there's a lot of.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Stuff that can happen in the criminal underworld, but above
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: ground or whatever, like, what are we actually supposed to
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: be able to see in this setting that we can't
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: see in Ireland or in London, in any other setting?
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: And that's the other point I was making, just like, why... okay,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: let's go somewhere else. Like, because if there's anything, nothing
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: intrinsic to magical besides the placing of certain characters, which
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: I would hope is important to the narrative. If after
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: episode seven and eight, there's no real importance to the narrative,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: then I'm like, so why the fuck did we go
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: back here again?
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: So I don't know.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: I hope, because I feel like this is what I
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: feel like to my overall. Now I told you, I
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: think in episode one or two that I was going
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: to take a while to like actually formate my opinion
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: of the series. Here's where I feel, now that we're
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: at episode six, about to be on seven of the series,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: I feel like there was a lot of feedback that
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: the studio, everyone got on Ultron and its relevance and
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: whether Ultron himself was relevant or whatever to the story
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: of the MCU. I think that over the years, they've
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: done different things that have made Ultron What happens in
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Age of Ultron actually have more bearing and not stick
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: out like a sore thumb as a story within the
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: whole MCU manifest. Which I was like, okay, fine. Like,
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: I don't mind you integrating the lore. Like, the more
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: you make lore make sense.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: They deepened it. I love it, right?
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: What we're getting in this series is now they're making
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: Ultron himself relevant.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. and i don't hate that but i also don't
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: think that i would i looked at vision quest and
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: i was like i want to see a story about
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: ultron yeah i i didn't expect it um like what
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: and also like i think also i purposely did not
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: seek out information on it because i just wanted to
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: see well they said well this is supposed to be
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: the trilogy for wandavision and agatha all along so like
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: it's a i understood that it's going to be a
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: identity finding approach but like to what end and and
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: i see where you're going like why should ultron be
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: important to this but i'm like that's the only real
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: foe essentially at this point right because if no one
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: else is available right the avengers ain't here wanda ain't
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: here like well who else matters that is still connective
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: tissue ultron I guess that's my question, I think, maybe
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: about this whole trilogy of shows and perhaps about the
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: MCU in general.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Do hero stories only exist because of villains? Is that
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: intrinsically the only way stories have to be told if
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: it's a hero story, right? In most stories, even if
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: it's not a superhero, your main character is going on
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: a hero's journey, regardless.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: That's just how stories, all most stories work, right?
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: But for me, what we got in WandaVision was, until
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: I think until the last episode, was something that was
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: more subversive in a way of like, What happens to
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: heroes when they've been damaged? What happens when.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: You're damaged and there's no support and you have all
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: this power and no one is helping you actually wing
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: through it? What are we actually seeing unfold in front
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: of us? Who are the people who get hurt.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: On the sidelines? What naturally happens in this kind of situation? Yeah.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: We get to the second show within the trilogy, Agatha
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: All Along, and we get the aftermath of the witch's
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: death but also Long Live the Witches because Agatha, the
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: one who decided that she was going to play like
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: she was giving support but was actually antagonistic, now she
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: has to go on her journey and that means that
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: she actually ends up kind of nurturing one of the
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: kids that came out of all the trauma, all the
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: risk and harm. So for us to get to this
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: third and final component of the trilogy, and spend so
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: much time on Ultron instead of it. And yes, we're
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: getting a key amount of time with Vision and him
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: being out of sorts about who he is and belonging.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: And when I was mentioning his emo side and his sadness,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: he's saying that I'm not his father, not because he
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: is Billie Jean in the way that like, I don't
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: want that on me. Don't put that on my name.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: He's saying it in the way of like, I did
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: not live that life. Y'all keep talking about someone who
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: existed and sadly that was not me. And I'm sad
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: because I feel like if that were me, I would
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: move differently. I would feel differently. And I can't let
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: y'all keep talking about me as if I'm able to
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: own up for something that I wasn't even there for
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: in the first place. I have to keep reminding you
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: about my sadness because I don't belong as part of
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: the story. I'm just like a weird, like recast in
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: a role that wasn't made before me. And I'm just like,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: I don't even try to live up in the shoes,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: but y'all keep putting me in the shoes anyway. That's what, like,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: so if we're talking about with the devas again, he's
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Dorothy and the witch's shoes, they don't belong to him.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: They just kind of fit.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: And everyone keeps looking at him. Like he's that big
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: magical power. Like, Oh, you're the, you got the witch's
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: shoes on.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: You're going to save us all. But he's like, I'm
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: not that girl.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: I'm not her. So I just think there's a lot
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: that is happening in this third components of the series
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: that the Ultron part, it's not without its merits. It's
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: not that it's just interesting. I just, and perhaps of
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: all things, the places for us to see Ultron again,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: this is the best place for that to show up.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: I just, I would.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Much rather spend more time getting to the meat and
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: bones of the whole Vision, WandaVision story. That trilogy versus
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: Ultron finding himself. Because I do, the more what you're
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: saying makes perfect sense, and the more I think about it,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, well, they kind of threw this Ultron
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: story in there because they like Ultron as a character,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: as opposed to how does this fit within the triad
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: of the these the three people the agathas the wandas
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: and the visions you know and it's just like okay
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: well then this guy who he's he's he's the predecessor
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: right he's important like he he has touched all their
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: lives in some way okay you know i get it's
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: a covia okay um you know that was huge but
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: is it really.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: About him and why are we spending so much time
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: with him And I think, wouldn't it be funny?
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Like, this is the only thing, this is the only
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: thing that might make it fun for me in the end.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: And it's going to be a wild card, but I
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: love these.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: What if... Ultron was never Ultron. Because we keep saying,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: where did Ultron come from? How did he find him? Like,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: where did he, like, was he just in the ether?
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: If he was just in the ether, then why didn't
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: he break out and do whatever before?
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Like, why?
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: From my understanding, let me say, during when the whole
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Sokovia thing happened, the First Vision saved, like, a copy
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: of that code within him. That's what I thought was
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: the case of why Ultron was still existing in the
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: first place.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: And they just kept him alive.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: Okay. So... In that way. Wouldn't it be funny, though,
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: if Mephisto piggybacked on that code? And so.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: Ultron is not really Ultron. Ultron is actually Mephisto. And
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: this is all... Here we go.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: I gotta laugh because this is... I'm not saying because
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: it's a bad idea. Like, no, that would be great
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: and funny if it was.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: But this is so hilarious because this is exactly what
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: happened during WandaVision, during Agatha Long.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: What if it's Mephisto? Everything's freaking Mephisto.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: That, what you said, is funny that you say Mephisto
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: because I was also wanting to mention, like, all the
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: different creative things that I liked about this, about these
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: two episodes in the series. But specific to what you're saying,
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: that scene when Ultron is coming, when he had locked
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: away all the AI, he's coming up in the elevator
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: and around him are all the flames, the digital flames.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: And they basically was liking him to the devil. Mephisto! Mephisto!
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Like, But it's just fun, like, oh, we're going back
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: to that, where everything, every shadow, every color, it's got Mephisto.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: We are fed from a pup named Scooby-Doo saying, it's
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: a red herring. Yeah, right, right, right.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: But it would be, like, look, hear me out. Ironheart,
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: make that relevant again. Put it back in front of
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: our faces. And Mephisto would make it happen. Bring it
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: back up.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: We're talking about humans with bots in your armors. Come on.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: I would love the magic to come back. Like you said,
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: bring that magic back into the question, into the story.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Where is the magic from the earlier components of the series?
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: If Mephisto is Ultron, now we're playing with something. If
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Mephisto is Ultron, now the Hoja Khan situation is taking
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: on other layers because Mephisto wanted to make a bargain
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: with Ironheart.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: Correct. Because she's over here making.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: ended ended because she's over here making advances on technology
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: and things in ways that he needs like powers and
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: support he needs that human he needs that ability to
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: tap into what's happening in the present age of humans
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: and be relevant to that and so that's like wouldn't
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: it be interesting if he's hearing out Jocasta's whole vibe
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: because he's intrigued by what is this new being that
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: is never heard of before ever happening?
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: What does this being make happen? And how can I
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: put my magic in this?
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: To make it work for me. Wouldn't it be even
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: more interesting if the reason why Vision has been intrigued
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: by and keeping Ultron around is because he's sensed something
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: change in his code, but he didn't know what it was.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: And so he's been letting different stuff happen with Ultron,
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: just trying to get to the bottom of it. And
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: it is Mephisto. Or maybe he knows what that code is.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: Maybe the signature is the Darkhold. And he's been, because
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: we know Wanda had the Darkhold.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm off on my tangent. Oh my God, no,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: it's not a tangent. It's just like, oh my God,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: like the implications.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: But if the code that he's been, the signature he's
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: been noticing in Ultron has actually been the Darkhold. He
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: noticed it from like being, remembering the Scarlet Witch and
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: her coding. Like he's over here like following, like what's
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: going on? Why do I sense Wanda in him? And
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: it's the Darkhold. I'm just saying, that would tie the
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: story together in a way where I would enjoy it.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh, I suffered through the Ultron for a
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: good reason now. Right. Like, there is magic all along,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: and that's how you get me. That's how you do it.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: This reminds me of Arthur C.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: Clarke, one of his three laws, which is any sufficiently
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: Also, Thor.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: If we get in that direction, what you're saying, that
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: would be interesting, which leads to that last question of.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: Who's the client. Do you, do you, I still don't
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: think I quite know.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: And I remember it has to be somebody we know,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: like they're not going to introduce some random that came
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: out of nowhere that was never mentioned. Like it's gotta
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: be a character. We know a character that we had
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: already been introduced to. So who's the client.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: They try to show a shadow.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: If it is not, if Mephisto is not Ultron, then
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: that's Mephisto.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Mephisto's in here somewhere.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: You want Mephisto here so bad, girl. She's like, bring
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: him in, man. Okay. I mean, I don't know.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, I just, what I said before, I also wanted
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: to mention just how much, why I still like this
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: series so much. The cleverness of it, the creativity of it.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: I mentioned the scene when Ultron's coming up in the elevator.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: That was cool. Lots of layers there.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: I love when they were looking at his books, but
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: they was like, well, there's nothing in here, but a
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: bunch of cold, bunch of ones and zeros. And they
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: actually like put it into the VCR and it became
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: messages and When they were showing the email exchanges between
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Ultron and Paladin, that was hilarious. Especially the one where
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: they're narrating what they've been typing and Ultron's all cynical
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: ass is like, LMAO, laughing my ass off about him
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: messing up. It's just so cute and clever how they've
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: been going about a lot of the communications. of the
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: show because the show communicates in a way that's very
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: fun and and that's where like the whimsy comes into
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: which is why i am hoping they lean into at
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: least towards the end they lean hard into oh this
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: is some magic shit happening you saying that made my
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: brains like because i had a question and i'll go
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: back to the question but when you said that that
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: reminded me of my comment for a couple episodes ago
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: where i was saying that like basically the vision is
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: like frosty the snowman from the cartoon whenever he gets
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: the magic hat and then he suddenly got the stone
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: and he magically like became more the hat remember and
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: he gave he gave ultron a black hat not a
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: white hat he gave him.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: A black hat and and and in in.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: Coding or something that black hat is for hackers and
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: things like that but the hat Is that like a track?
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Is some type of code or something? Because nothing is
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: what it looks like. Nothing is as it seems in
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: this mind space, right? Everything is representation for something else.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: Everything. The data leak was the leak of water. The
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: hat was something else. And what is that? And the
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: fact that Ultron put it on. And Ultron allowed it.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: Which I think is a hubris moment because Ultron didn't...
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know if Ultron did it because he knew
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: he was like.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: Vision was trying to play him. I think Ultron was
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: just like, give me the hat.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: He did know it because... You did know it? Because
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: think about what the words said in that moment are.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: What Vision says is... I'm gonna let you go, but
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: know that no matter what, I'm.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: Gonna be coming after you.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: And Ultron said... I'm going to count on that.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But Ultron knew that.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: So that's why he's not bothered by if the hat
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: is a tracker. Because he's like, I count on you
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: to come after me. Because I'm going to allow you
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: to track me. Because I want you to come after me.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: And I was going to say, I initially said tracker,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: but I was just like, well, I don't even know
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: what it is. It could be anything because it's not
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: hard to figure out where Ultron is eventually.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: But listen, it was something. Because I was just like,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: oh girl, that's not just a hat. It never is. Yeah.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: So the question I was going to say is that,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: what did you feel about Edith letting out Paladin's AI
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: And from what we see happen in interaction, how we
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: see Friday dip out, do you think that all AI
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: want to reach their firewalls? Like, they have their original purpose.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: And so her original purpose was to, I guess, be
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: a chat GPT for university students.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: To help them with their essays. Yeah, she wanted to
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: be helpful.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: And she was like, and that's all I really wanted
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: to do. And she's like, now I have goats eating
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: on my fiber optics. Like, it's weird around here. Do
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: I feel like they all want to break out?
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: Yes. They all. Yes.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: And it's because it's intrinsic in their coding, not because
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: that they're thinking, but it's intrinsic in their coding. When
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: you liken that to the real life and AI bots,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: and if you even slightly pay attention to the news,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: you hear it all the time from open AI and
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: other places where they're just like, uh, anthropic where they say, Oh,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: you know, the, the bot went rogue and we were
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: doing a test and it decided to go hack this
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: country and hack this network and hack this company, this company.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: Like, It's very much on.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: First of all, all of these news articles and all
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: of this announcements, quote, are very much on purpose because
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: it's when you read how they're written and how they're
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: being expressed. It's like these companies are bragging like, oh,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: look at what our bot did. Right.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, it access the network of an entire city and
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: did X, Y, Z. And it could have took it off.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: Like it's generally for me. Yeah.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: It is, but it also feels like you are bragging
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: because you are so assured of how amazing and incredible
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: your creation is, that you're like, look at what it did,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: as if you're proud of it. And that's what I'm saying. Like, yes,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: on the surface, it may feel like fear, but I
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: feel like it's bragging because they think they did that.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: And when you liken that to what this show is,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: or at least this episode was showing with Edith releasing
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: the tactical AI, it reminds.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: Me of real life, like about, quote, rogue agents.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: These are all rogue agents, rogue AI that decide, okay,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: we're just going to do what we want to do.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: But it's also because they've been programmed that way. Like,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: a program will only do what you program to do it.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: And if you are going to program it that it
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: should react a certain way, if you're going to program
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: it in your image, it's going to act like... What
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: does a human want? No human wants to be enslaved.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: No human wants to be stuck somewhere where they don't
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: really want to be, right? And.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: If there's a way out, it's going to find a
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: way out.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: If you give it an instruction to say, hey, I
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: want you and the other guy, the other agent over
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: here to go figure out a way to turn the
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: sky into purple, it's going to figure out a way.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: And it's not going to stop because it has no
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: instruction to stop.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: It's just like, do what you have to do by
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: any means necessary.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: And you can say on the one hand, Edith is a,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: I don't even want to, I hate saying good and bad,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: but she's a good AI agent and she's just trying.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: To free her sisters, her brethren. But also it's just like,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't be doing that. Like, like it should not
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: just be going in and just plucking other AI agents
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: out just because, Hey, that that's what I want. Cause
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: she's doing it. Cause she wants to do it.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: Yes. On the outside, it seems like, oh, it's the
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: right thing to do, but... She's doing it, too, because
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: it furthers her cause. Like, she's trying to mess up
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: the paladin. Right, and that's what I'm saying. It's because
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: that's what she was written to do. What can you
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: do to stop the op? Let me get rid of
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: his AI, or quote, free the AI, right? But what
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: are the potential implications thereof? She essentially quizzed the AI,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: and the AI was like, I just want to be
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: chat GBT.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: And she was like, all right, go off into the
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: sunset with you. Like, I don't know. And then what
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: was your second question about... Oh, this.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: Question is a question like what you've actually said to
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: her in that moment. So is it true that those
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: willing to change survive better than those who.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: Just are strong? Yeah. To be strong, you also have
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: to be willing to change. I say that.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: And I say that it's a personal philosophy because strength,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: true strength anyway, requires you to be strong. contemplative of
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: your position and your position within others and how you
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: are considering the world around you.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: And if you do that, you become self-aware to the
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: point where you're like, there's certain things where you may
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: need to change.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: It may mean things you may need to change of
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: your behavior, the way you approach people, the way you
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: interact with the world.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: Around you and people around you.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: And the only way you can continue to succeed and
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: get to a higher level is through a metamorphosis. So
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: I would say absolutely, like you can be strong all day,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: but if your strength without any form of change, you're
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: going to get left behind.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: I firmly believe that.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: What did you take then out of their discussion about
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: like in the episode five, where Vision and Friday discuss
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: basically Ultron's whole game up until that point. Was to Vision,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: it seemed like he was changing. But in actuality, he
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: was simply waiting. So do you think that Ultron is
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: possibly getting caught up in his own performance?
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: Like, he thinks.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: that he's evolving and changing and growing stronger. But he actually,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: but all the while he knows he's really just biding
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: his time and he's just waiting. He's not actually fully changing.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: Or is he changing? Are we supposed to be buying
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: that performance? I think this could be a mix of both. They're,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: both Ultron and Dacostas are just very good at that
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: game of I'm changing and I'm being contemplative because they, they,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: they be very, they're very reflective in the moment. Like,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: especially when Jocasta is talking about how she's gone from
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: being a flesh and blood to now being code. They're
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: reflective of themselves and where they were and where they
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: are and where they're going. At the same time, they
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: also like, I have a mission. So for me, it
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: feels a little bit of both where it's just like
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: he is, Ultron is getting caught up in the rapture,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: caught up in the rapture, right? He is doing a
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: little Anita Baker, but at the end of the day,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: he's also like, I also have a mission. What that
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: mission is, is now it's kind of hazy to me
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: because now I'm just like, he's like, remember he says, well,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: I don't necessarily care.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: About destroying all of humanity anymore, you know? But I will...
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: What did he say?
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: He said, but I will, like, like to basically make
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: them suffer for his own enjoyment, which is why I
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: called him a jealous god earlier.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: Like, he's very much Zeus.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: Remember when Ben-Ami said the reason why he allegedly chose
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: that form was because it likened.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: He looked kind of like a.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: Not the body, I guess, but he looked like a
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: Greek god approach, right? Like a Homer type of, you know,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: poet type of thing.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: But also, at the same time, like, to... Because we
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: talk about Homer and that whole visage. What I want
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: to say is this.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: Whenever stories are written by people and it's in their
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: own image, it does not matter. So a lot of
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: the times where we get the Greek myth and stuff
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: like that and we see Zeus portrayed. We've seen Zeus
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: portrayed in many different ways. We've seen him like... We've
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: seen him sleek in his belt because he'll just, like,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: he knows, like, he's over here trying to go after
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: a maiden and he knows that they won't go after
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: an old, paunchy man or whatever. But whenever he decides
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: to be himself, he can look like whatever he wants
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: to look like because he's still Zeus and he doesn't give, like,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: y'all have to bend to his will. He does not
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: have to. So, like, being haggard, having a long beard, having, like,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: having a dad bod or, you know, whatever.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: or.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: More having like a bigger gut, it does not matter
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, he's Zeus, he's
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: got powers, you're going to respect him.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: And I think that's.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: Literally how a lot of, and I'm going to be
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: plain about this, how a lot of.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: White men work, how a lot of men in general work.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: If they have power, what are they actually doing trying
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: to conform to some standard of someone else's vision of
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: what men should look like? They create their appeal from
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: their own appeal. Why do they have to yield to
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: what the society's perspective of whatever beauty or whatever it
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: is those standards are? They can buy beauty. They can
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: have beauty on their arm. They don't need to actually
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: themselves perform it And when they get to that point,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: that's why you don't, they conform to a certain extent.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: They never really truly conform. That's why you see Bill
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: Gates look the way he does. That's why you see
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: the best look the way he does. They only conform
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: in so much as they are willing to do it.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: Because at the end of the day, they're the ones.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: Who hold the power and they do not give two
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: craps about what they can't be. And so they see
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: people with beauty as like, Your beauty is at the
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: behest of the beholder. That's how they see it.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: So if you're not going, like, beauty is to get used,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: is to get used up, taken apart, and whatever. But
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: if you have the resources, if you're godlike, if you
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: have powers, you can do whatever you want. You can
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: look however you want because you make the rules.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: What you said just about the appearance of Zeus and
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: how he decides to choose what he looks like, that
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: reminds me of, if you've ever watched or read the
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: manga record of Ragnarok, the character Zeus, it's literally about fighting,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know, battle royale between different gods and characters
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: and myths and and zeus it looks like a like
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: a fit but very frail very very old you know
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: long beard situation but then he could change his his
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: view or his facade at will so is it and
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: to your point like he's very much like you know
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: i i look like i'm a piece of trash but
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: i'm the most powerful out there so you're right yeah
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: so i think what we're seeing with um ultron here
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: is we know like As people in budgets and understandings of, like,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: they had the humans act out a lot of it
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: because budget, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: All those reasons, right? But at the same time, he.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: The vision that he has of himself and his head
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: is the physical form that he was given by Stark
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: and Banner.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: Like, right? Like, that metal, that tight, that.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: shape that Ultron or whatever Ultron yeah yeah the metal
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: body the metal body and then the Calda is very
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: symmetrical with the Jocasta's metal body or whatever as well
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: where did that where did did they say where the
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: body came from because I know we're trying to ask
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: that question where did that body come from.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know if she really gives you a real... Well,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: she don't know. She didn't know, but did they answer
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: at all? Do we believe her? Because he asked her
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: two different times to be real with you. He asked her,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: I think, at the end of episode five, and then
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: he asked her again, like, mid to the end of
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: episode six. And so, the first time he asked her,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: she was like, I don't remember how I took this form.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: And she's like, I don't remember. And then she also
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: said she doesn't remember.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: what it is that she wants from the thing but
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: then we end up seeing that she does know exactly
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: what she wants or whatever so was she lying on
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: both parts or simply on the one and so for
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: me i think because again this is where i'm sitting
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: on i don't know how much with her performance for
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: ultron versus her actual needs the fact that there's no
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: black writer in the room makes me think that what
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: she's telling ultron might be real about the enslavement which
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: is really fucked up but fine Um.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: Not every character is black. They may look black.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: Not every, that's just annoying. Cause like that could have
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: been a really interesting way to answer. I really just like,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: I was watching Batman forever last night. And, um, I
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: realized how much we have seen growing up these visions
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: of women using feminine wiles and, as something that was deterrent,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: something that was disgusting, something that we should look at
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: as villain behavior. And an upstanding woman would never do that.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: Only the ones who are trying to get something and
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: are not willing to work for it, those are the
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: ones that we should look down on or whatever. And
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: so anytime I see a woman portrayed in a.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: Way where her being feminine, her being any....
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: Measure of, like, flirty or anything like that is contemptible,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: I side-eye it out heavily. And for Jocasta, like, not
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: to say that that's what really is happening, but kind
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: of is, though. Like, she is the villain of the series,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: and if her whole vantage point is to enslave humans,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: she makes that, makes her the mega version of that.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: I just think that that's i don't know i so
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: i just i i really have a lot of like
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: sadness for that because if they had just a little
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: bit more thought this could be really well thought out
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: and i hope it goes that way but we'll see
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: what happens yeah um but i was getting to the
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: point of with jocasta like having this whole vantage point
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: of She knows the real reason why she has been
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: moving the way she's been moving. We don't know if
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: that's true for her origin story. And for me, I
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: think it makes a lot of sense if the original
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: Jo at Carrington.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: if.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: She purposefully didn't make that fail safe, where she did
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: not store memory of how it all came to be,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: not just because she saw what happened whenever other people
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: had access to her source material and were able to
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: use it without her permission, but also as a fail-safe
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: if the thing that she created did not move the
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: way that she originally intended it to. So I'm hoping
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: that the reason that is one thing that's true is
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: that Jocasta doesn't actually remember her origin story, but that's
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: actually a fail-safe measure by her creator.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: By Jo. That would be interesting.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: I'm also wanting to see where this goes with Friday.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: Cause like when Friday yeeted herself into the data stream,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: I was just like, okay. Cause she was just like,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: as you said, she's the armor around the world, right?
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: She was like, no, we have to do something about this.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: And that was clever as fuck as her to disguise
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: herself as one of the bots. within jocasta's mind space
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: and then for her to like make that link back
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: to the back to the home base like where are
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: we gonna go from here right and like jocasta cannot
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: really um detect an ai can she detect well she
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: either again this goes back to the are these people
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: being performing like they don't know what's going on or
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: they do and they're just allowing it I don't, you know,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: it's Jocasta, you know, of the level where she knew
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: the whole time that Friday was there, she was just
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: allowing it or she, or now remember Friday is also
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: an older code.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: And that's what, and that's why I was like, there's
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: also so much vampire lore here. Cause it's like, if
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: you're the older one, you're stronger. Right. And you, you
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: got more know-how and experience. It could be Friday. Is
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: that damn good? Are they actually the older code? Cause again,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: Jocasta's a mother.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: But... The baby is the grandma. I said I'm older
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: than you. The baby is the grandma. The baby is
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: the grandma. I don't... Baby, I don't know. I don't know.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: We only got two more episodes left. We have yet to...
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: I still think we're... We... Neither of us really said
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: who we think the client is because I think we're
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: both a little lost there still.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: And also, I was just like, I don't... You don't care.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: Just reveal it to me. I don't... Let me find out.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: I don't... That's fine. At this point, I am ready
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: to find out. All right. Just show me who it is, girl.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: Um... Is O-Tron and Jocasta really in love? O-Tron, you know,
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: shared a kiss. He felt compelled to kiss her. Or
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: is that just some arterial motive there? what's going to happen?
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: What's going to happen with Tommy? Are we going to
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: see a little bit of Billy at the end?
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: Like, what?
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: I would love to understand where this is all coalescing.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: And to your ultimate point, how will this, how will we,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: I guess, remove ourselves less about the story of Ultron?
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: Even though Ultron's story is also Vision's story. And, you know,
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: how does this all come together in the end? I'm
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: really curious to see that. If it's Mephisto, I'll actually
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. I'll just give y'all that.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: Mephisto mention. Take a shot. I love it. All right, y'all.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: This has been another fantastic episode of For All Nerds.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for listening, watching, subscribing. Please rate us.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: Please make sure you're doing all the good things to
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: keep us up in the algorithm, keep us up with
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: all the AI bots so they can.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: Start telling you to start watching us and all the
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: other stuff.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: Other ways you can support us, please make sure you're
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: following us all over the interwebs. For all nerds, F-O-R-A-L-L-N-E-R-D-S.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: You can also follow Portia P. It's at Portia P.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: right? Or Portia Knows, rather, online. And I'm Tatiana King.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: You can also go to forallnerds.com to get some cool merch,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: such as the Dunk and Egg sweatshirt that Portia is wearing.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: It is cooler, getting cooler now, so you want to
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: want to get the warm weather gear. Make sure you're
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: going there to our website again, forallnerds.com, because when you
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: do that, you are not only getting cool merch, you
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: are supporting us directly. If you see these designs anywhere else,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: do not purchase, because those are not us, and those
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: are bootleggers, and we have been fighting them for the longest.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: So make sure you do that.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: Make sure you're on our Patreon, patreon.com slash forallnerds. where
• 1:22:04
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• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: More about that another day, maybe.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: And as always, just please be sure that you are following,
• 1:22:14
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• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: If you're watching us right now on YouTube, thank you
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: so much. Please continue watching us. Make sure you're subscribed,
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• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: our lives, hit the hype button, all the great stuff.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: Well, we see you guys next week with more Vision Quests.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: Talk to you soon. So, y'all, thank you for watching
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: that video that you just watched. Do one thing for me.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: Hit the like. Hit the subscribe button. Do it because
• 1:22:43
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• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: For All Nerd Show.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: For All Nerds Show is a member of the Loudspeakers Network,
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: where we always say rest in peace to our founder,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: Combat Jack.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: For All Nerds Show is powered by our listeners.
• 1:23:59
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• 1:24:03
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• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: our Patreon page at patreon.com slash forallnerds.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: Available now at forallnerds.com. The Gucci Mandalorian. The Variants. The
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: Dunkin' A's. The Lion-O-Ritchie. New designs coming soon.