Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / From Setback to Spotlight - Recovering From a Dance Injury

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From Setback to Spotlight - Recovering From a Dance Injury · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_04: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_04: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_04: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_04: All dancers will inevitably get injured over the course of their dance career.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_04: And while we've talked a lot on making the impact about preventing injuries, we haven't talked much about the recovery process.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_04: Today on the pod, we're joined by two new guests to talk about the mental, physical, and emotional processes we go through as we recover from injuries.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, dance world, and welcome to our next episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hey Courtney, hey listeners, we are in March.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Can you believe it?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's wild! The competition season is flying by, and we're in the heat of it right now.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope everyone has had a chance to head to an event or upcoming event this month.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Might be your very first time hitting the stage this season, but I'm loving it.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad we're finally in comp season.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_04: Me too, and I'm back out there judging, and it's just been it's been amazing, and I'm so glad to be back in action this season.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yay! I know a lot of us have competed already because we are getting those submissions in, those registrations in from studios who have won our Making the Impact Judges Choice Awards at IDA affiliated competition events.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: So exciting.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: We are so grateful for all of the IDA affiliated competitions who support this award.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And this is coming to you straight from Impact Dance Adjudicators and our podcast.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And this award is all about making an impact in the competitive dance world.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Your IDA judges on the panel get to select that one dance from the entire weekend event that they want to recognize, whether it was through their execution, their choreography, their performance, their technique.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's that one dance they just cannot stop thinking about by the end.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the perks of winning our Making the Impact Award is you get to receive a live shout-out on a future episode of our podcast.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_04: And here we are, we have a winner to share with you today.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: A winner, a winner from DECA Dance Competitions event in Somerset, New Jersey.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_04: Congrats to Ocean Dance Force from Manasquan, New Jersey for their duo trio, The Chain.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_04: How exciting! Congrats, y'all.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations, everyone! And if you are a recipient of our Making the Impact Award at any IDA affiliated competition event, don't forget to register your award by scanning the QR code on the back of the award, and we'll give you a shout-out on a future episode.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_04: And listeners, as usual, we have some sponsors to tell you about, so here we go.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_04: Moving through a competitive dance season comes with a lot of excitement along with top-level goals.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_04: But sometimes, as you find yourself saying, straighten your knees or use your turnout, does it feel like the progress doesn't match the work?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_04: Well, let me introduce you to relative motion.
• 3:01
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• 3:05
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• 3:12
  SPEAKER_04: Relative motion simplifies the mind-body connection, so it's like turning a light bulb on to all your students' training.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_04: And it's actually that instant.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_04: But the best part is the relative motion training program, which cues all their exercises with both anatomical terms and coordinating colors, so dancers of every age and level have access to understanding what the goal is and how to get there.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: You can access relative motion through their online teacher training programs, starting with tiny technicians, ages 3 to 8, the Total Technique Academy, ages 9 and up, and the Props Advantage, integrating prop training into your studio effectively.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_04: Follow them on Instagram at RelativeMotion Dance to see their program in action, and then head to relativemotionance.com or download the Relative Motion Technique app in the Apple or Google App Stores to get started.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_04: And exclusive for our listeners, use our podcast promo code Impact10 in all caps to receive an additional 10% off of any of their online training programs or$400 off your in-studio workshop.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_04: You're just one step away from your strongest season ever with Relative Motion.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Join us for an unforgettable experience at the Dance Teacher Web Conference and Expo, taking place this summer at the Paris Hotel in Las Vegas from July 22nd to the 25th, where dance enthusiasts gather to elevate their teaching skills.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: With over 140 masterclasses, there's something for everyone, whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting out.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Dive into cutting-edge insights that will transform your studio.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: From innovative marketing trends to effective retention strategies, you'll leave the Dance Teacher Web Conference equipped with the tools to succeed.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And don't miss the exclusive movement and dance classes with industry professionals, where you can learn unique choreography that will spice up your lessons.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: You'll also gain invaluable knowledge on injury prevention and recovery techniques from experts.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, the Dance Teacher Web event connects you with other fellow educators and industry celebrities from around the world throughout their networking gatherings and parties during the week.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'll even be attending and teaching this year at the Dance Teacher Web Conference and would love to see you there.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: With extended access to their event app, you'll have the luxury of revisiting sessions and notes long after the conference ends.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Explore the Expo Hall for the latest trends in costumes and dancewear, and be sure to participate in the Grand Finale giveaway, where over$20,000 in prizes awaits.
• 5:32
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• 5:42
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• 5:53
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• 5:56
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• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Dance World.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're jumping into a very important topic today because we're back here on the pod discussing injuries.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And not just about how to prevent injuries, but also now we're going to sit down with different people who have experienced injuries in their dance career.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And Leslie and I included, because we have both been there.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: But we wanted to get some varying perspectives on what their journey has been like navigating the challenges of an injury, how they overcame those challenges throughout their healing process, and to just give all of our listeners out there another viewpoint and perspective in the sense that many, many dancers throughout your lifetime as a dancer will experience an injury or two or multiple at a point in time.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's just how it is.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is a very intense sport and activity that we do.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: It is a full-body activity.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And sadly, it's bound to happen at a point in time.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: When we don't encourage injuries, we hope that it never happens to anyone.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: But if it does happen to you, there are some obstacles and hurdles that you're going to have to overcome with how to navigate it.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to hear from some uh guests today, brand new guests on our podcast who have experienced that just like possibly you.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: The very first guest that I'm excited to welcome to the podcast is someone who is connected and affiliated with one of our sponsors, Relative Motion.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: She is a full-time dance teacher, grew up in the competitive world as well.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we actually met way back in the day at Marymount Manhattan College in New York City.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited to welcome Kate Pagano to the podcast.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Kate.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, everybody.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yay! Happy to have you here.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we're I'm so excited.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so excited to just give some feedback on injuries and kind of tell dancers, you know, it's not, it's not the end, right?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: There's more to this.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, absolutely.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Kate, uh, if you could share with all of our listeners out there a little more about you, where you grew up, where you're based now, any early dance training, any career credits, and what you're currently up to.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm originally from Houston, Texas.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: I grew up dancing competitively.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: I also trained at the Houston Ballet and I went to the Houston High School for the Performing and Visual Arts, which is like a magnet high school.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: Beyonce actually went to my high school, so that's pretty cool.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: I graduated high school and I went to Marymount Manhattan College in New York City and was a BFA there in the dance program.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's actually where I sustained one of my injuries during my experience during college, but I'll get into that later.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then just like growing up in New York City, you know, during college was just so like amazing.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: The experience of living there, having to like navigate the vibrant city, the hustle and bustle, make sacrifices.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like it just taught me so much.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: And um, living there, I networked a lot.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: So like I would take a lot of classes at Broadway Dance Center and steps and paridance, and um, you know, that kind of connected me to a lot of things.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: I ended up working for NYCDA and their sister company on stage in New York from taking class with Jolan Terry.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: So just kind of interesting how all the connections just, you know, branch out.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: I graduated college and booked my first job as a or like contracted job uh for celebrity cruise lines.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: I did two contracts with them, moved back to New York, was in New York auditioning and was like realizing that I could book a lot of work outside New York.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I moved to Florida.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: I honestly didn't know anybody here.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was like on a whim, and I booked a job down here.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, all right, well, I have a job in Florida, I might as well go, right?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I did a lot of theme park work, my dance at Bush Gardens, Universal, Disney.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: I was in the castle show there, which was like my dream job to to get that gig.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then I got my equity card through Disney.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: I did a lot of regional theater, so like Crazy for You, Joseph's Family Lot, uh, a bunch of shows.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I always have been teaching since I moved down here, and I think that's super important to mention as things progress with this conversation today.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, and like at some point in my career, I was, you know, our bodies are not as agile as they used to be.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I started realizing, like, oh, I'm like struggling with this injury now and this injury, and shows I was in started closing, and I just was looking for like a different opportunity.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: I was engaged, I wanted to find like a pathway I could have that I would be able to raise a family.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so I went back to school for physical therapy.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I graduated with my PTA degree six years ago now, and I was working for five years at the VA in Tampa, working with veterans with chronic pain, uh musculoskeletal injuries.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: And a couple of years ago, I reconnected with Kara uh Dixon, who is the one of the co-founders of Relative Motion.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: We judged together for years, so it's you know another one of those small world dance things.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, and so I joined their team of relative motion, which was really awesome because it was like a perfect blend of like my physical therapy knowledge and background experiences, and then a career as a dancer and a tea, you know, teacher knowledge and all that kind of stuff.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I've been working with them for three years.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I currently teach here in Porta and I'm in Tampa area, and I have two kids, a dog, I'm married, and life's just great.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you do it all, and you do it so fabulously.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I love that we're getting to reconnect here after so many years.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Here on the podcast.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um really grateful to have you and thanks for joining us.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yay! All right, our next special guest is a friend of mine in the biz, and we have had the opportunity to perform in a show together.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Jerome Robbins Broadway at the Muni is where we got to jazz dance and sing and perform for how many people are in that amphitheater?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's like 10.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: 11,000.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: 11,000 people in an in the I think it's the one of the country's largest outdoor amphitheaters in at the Muni, and one of the oldest, too, I think, as well.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just a dream come true every time I think about it.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And this person, this guest, has sustained an injury and is currently recovering from the injury right now, which we're going to get into.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that is why they're here.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: They are a Broadway veteran.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to welcome Andrew Wilson to our podcast.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Andrew.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thanks, Courtney and Leslie.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And nice to meet you, Kate.
• 12:16
  unknown: Yay!
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I it's funny, listening to Kate's intro, I'm like, oh my god, she's done everything.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I enter the dark horse, enter Andrew Wilson to the chat.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: The most disorganized.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm really interested to hear your perspective on this because, like I mentioned, I know that you're currently recovering from an injury, so it'll be a different viewpoint, I definitely think, and an important one as well to hear.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for wanting to join us.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: And if you could do the same thing, share a little bit more about you.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I grew up in a small town in western Pennsylvania.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: I started, I was a gymnast growing up.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I did competitive gymnastics, but I always wanted to dance.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Was definitely one of those classic, like 90s aughts kids that were like, Oh, I want to be a boy dancer, but I didn't see any of them.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I did the gymnastics route.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then I finally, I actually broke my arm in ninth grade, and then I was like, okay, it's time to quit.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: I want to start dancing.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I started when I was 16.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's hilarious when people say, I started really late.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm almost 40.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: 16 is so not late.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: There are no rules to this game whatsoever.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say that mentality of like, oh, you started late, oh, it's still as pervasive.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: I find in the dance world.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of that imposter syndrome, and I think that was one of my births of that, was like, oh, I'm starting as late.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then I grew up in a small town where there were like no one did this in college.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't like heard of.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: The internet and Google and YouTube weren't as prevalent then.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I was gonna go to school for chemistry.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a relative from New York City who came and saw me in a high school musical.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, Andrew, what are you doing for school for uh school next year?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I'm gonna go do chemistry.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, What?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: You're a dancer.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: So clearly you're a dancer.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: So she spoke with my parents and she said, Okay, they're gonna let you come live with me for a year and just see what happens.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I flew by the seat of my pants and moved to New York City.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I learned a lot of the stuff I needed to know by like waiters, bartenders passing me info.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you need this sort of headshot.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, your resume should do this.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then booking my first job, two months later, I booked my first national tour.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that cast just kind of went, This is everything you need to know.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to a woman named Alicia Albright.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: She's like one of the dance captains of Wicked.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: She literally taught me everything.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: But from there, I kept booking jobs.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did the tour of cats.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've I opened two new cruise ships for Disney Cruise Line.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I opened probably like 14 shows for them.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: I did Peter Pan with Kathy Rigby, this famous gymnast, which is where I learned about anxiety attacks and management of those on stage.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: But then uh in 2017, I got to make my Broadway debut in Cats Revival.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then recently I was back on Broadway in a show called Life of Pie.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I've played a cat twice on Broadway.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've danced in operas, I've danced in all these things, and it's so funny.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like when like any of you all who are like super well trained and have the resume of like college and everything, I automatically take myself out of the equation.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: I go, I'm not good enough.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, ugh, these people went to all these school schools now, these trainings since they were three, and their parents took them to this, and they're so organized.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and I would always take myself out of the room.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: But there's something in my brain that said, just go to that audition, just go.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be next to the Juilliard kid and the Merrimount kids and the people who had a million, and somehow I still made it.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, for those who are out there listening that are like, I don't have any of these resources.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: I am flying by the seat of my pants.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: You can still dance on Broadway next to someone who went to a Juilliard, you can still be in a movie with someone who has Grammy Awards.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you can do it.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can do it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: We got to do Jerome Robbins Broadway.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: We did.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: We got to do Jerome Robbins Broadway, which hadn't been done in what, like 30 years or something.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we got to learn it from the original Jerome Robbins dance associate.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, just the best.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and yeah, that that was so empowering and so beautiful.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like such a an a success story, Andrew, because you can, like, you really can do it.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think everything that you just shared, there's so many people listening on the other side that are like, wow, this okay, that's gonna fuel me to go to reach for the stars to go for my dream.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because like someone took a chance, like your family friend, who was it?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: A family friend took a chance.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was my aunt with my aunt.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Your aunt took a chance.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: She could sleep on my couch, couch.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that first job took a chance.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: I just had show choir and a high school musical from a school that's literally we're so small.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I've never forever forgotten where I came from.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so I think so.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so now I also teach.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I teach theater dance at Broward Dance Center and I teach adult acrobatics for the stage.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny, every class I teach, I just am really talking to my 16-year-old self that just started dancing.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like that is literally the only person I'm speaking to.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's my form of therapy, I don't know, but um, we had a good time.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Andrew, we're thrilled to have you on the podcast.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us today.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: All right, I think it's time to jump into this injury chat.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_04: Well, folks, so just get ready because injuries bring up a lot of things for a lot of people.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_04: So if there's any tears on this podcast, just that might happen.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_04: Who knows?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_04: Well, some of us have been in therapy about it.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_04: So we're used to that.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: Well, so folks, thank you again for being here.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_04: We're really grateful and excited to hear about your story.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_04: I want to start with just going ahead and just telling us about a little bit about the injury you'd like to talk about, or maybe there's been multiple, just so we get an idea of like what has happened.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_04: And Kate, would you like to go first?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, for sure.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, I was lucky growing up.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't really have a lot of injuries.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: I was very competitive and I feel like I danced like an exorbitant amount of hours a week.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: But somehow within all that and the training I was given, I was like very grateful to not sustain many serious injuries.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'd had like Achilles tendonitis randomly or like a knee pain, but nothing that was super like much of a setback, right?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: But my first like significant injury, and I think this was so impactful because I just had never experienced something to this degree.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was in college, it was I was a sophomore in college, I was in Marymount Manhattan's dance program, and it was a very intense dance program.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: And as a BFA, you take a lot of technique classes, and then you take liberal arts classes as well for your core curriculum.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I was in my sophomore year, I was on a break from school.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like a winter break, and I was in New York City, it was in January freezing, and I went and took an outside class because I was always training outside of school too.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: I was always like immersing myself in those experiences, and I was doing an inward turn, like an onde dawn turn, and I was on my left foot and I just felt this like weird sensation in the bottom of my foot, like in the ball of my foot.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, gosh, that felt really weird, you know?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: And like sometimes you do something and you're just like that felt weird, and then you're fine the next day, right?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like kind of hoping it was one of those moments.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm walking around New York City in the snow the next day, and I'm like, this is just not right.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to ice it, I'm trying to do everything I can do that I know I should do to try to like nurse it, and nothing's really improving.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: So over time I ended up um reaching out.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: There's like amazing sports orthopedic doctors in New York, right?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like just like super amazing.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I end up getting two opinions, right?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: The first one I saw told me that they thought I had sesamoiditis, they didn't recommend any imaging, and you know, that was that.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I went on my way, I had this little like thing I put in my foot to protect the area, but it it didn't, it didn't really register.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, something's still wrong.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I got a second opinion, and to this day I feel like I always will because of this experience.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I know.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I like, you know, I could have been just walking around New York for the rest of my life and like super injured.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: But they took an x-ray, and like what's interesting was sesamoid booms.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I had I it was about my sesamoid on my foot.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: So sesamoids like comes from the Greek term sesame seed.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: So you have these bones that are embedded in like a tendon and they facilitate like a pulley system for that tendon to move.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a lot of times the tendon will get inflamed and cause sesamoiditis, but unfortunately, they're bones, right?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: So they're also, you know, they can also fracture.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: So they took x-rays on my foot, they saw that one of the sesamoids on my left foot was broken, and then they matched it to the right foot because sometimes people anatomically have both bro broken, but it's like an anatomical thing, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: And they're like, Oh, actually, your right side isn't.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: So you definitely fractured your sesamoids.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I in that moment, like I was like, What?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like I broke a bone, you know, like I was never a kid, I never fell off a trampoline and broke my arm.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like I never jumped over the fence and broke my ankle.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I never broke a bone.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: And like, so I was like, what am I supposed to do now?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and like the first thing that hit me was like, okay, so it's January, come February, I'm starting my wet my spring semester at Merrimouth as a sophomore in a dance program with like outside choreographers that come in and set pieces.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I moved here to like do this for the rest of my life.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm like, this is shattering, you know, it was like totally shattering.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I had the diagnosis, you know, and like I really didn't have a lot of experience with PT because, like I said, I didn't really have a lot of, you know, injuries growing up, like here and there.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I mean, I was, you know, trying to walk around New York City in the winter, and they put me in a like a full cast.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I was like, is this really necessary?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like this bone in my foot is the size of a sesame seed, and I had a cast on my leg that went like up to my knee.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: So obviously I'm not walking and with crutches because I was non-weight bearing for two months.
• 21:35
  unknown: Wow.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: So non-weight bearing for two months, and then after the two months, I moved to a walking booth, but still, like, we know the slush and the snow.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, this is horrible.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: So that's like, you know, initially that's what I experienced.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's how it affected me.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it was the next navigation, it was obviously figuring out the next plan, but like, you know, it's they said you'd probably be out for like Six months.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: For wow.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's crazy.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: For the small for the smallest bone.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_04: But like think about it.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_04: That is what allows you to releve.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: If you're on releve, you are literally putting your entire body weight on your sesamoid bones.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_04: And it's on your left foot.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: If that was probably your turning foot all the time, that was probably your best side.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: The foot you launch off of for your leaps, most likely, too.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a right side leaper, like, you know, if you think about like, yeah, that's crazy how something so small can impact.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: And that big toe is so powerful, you know.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, all these things I'm learning now, right?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: And the careers I've like moved into, but yeah, just wild.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I had that information and I was like, okay, now I need to figure out what I'm gonna do with it, you know?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, pretty crazy.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_04: Well, so let's pause there because we'll get into what you're gonna do about it later.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_04: But sesmoiditis, man, and sesmoid fractures.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_04: I have I have sesmoiditis as well, had a similar situation in college and was told don't releve by by a regular old PT, you know, doctor, orthopedic doctor who didn't know anything about dance and was like, well, you can't you can't be there in that position and have this heal.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, Well, that's a problem.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's not gonna work out very well.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot not do that.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_04: So how do we do?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_04: So we'll get to what we do later.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but Andrew, so tell us a little bit about the injury that you're currently dealing with right now.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: So so yeah, I was I was on the set of Kiss of the Spider Woman, and we had, we were in the sequence where you are.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: So essentially the two prisoners or the one prisoner in the movie adores Jennifer Lopez's character, Aurora, and one of the sequences is she's in a big Broadway number.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we like leave the prison and you go to this big like Broadway stage, right?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And my entrance into this was I had like a burlap sack over my head.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was kind of in like prisoner garb, and she comes over to me, rips it off, and I do this tumbling pass across the stage.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now I've been tumbling since I was a little kid.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, like stage gymnastics is like that's the that's like my bread and butter.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I know exactly what I'm doing, I don't have to think about it.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And when we were rehearsing, they built us a dance deck that was gorgeous, glossy marley, but it had like a nice spring to it, and we had seen what we were wearing, which was like prisoner boots and and a costume, but like, so not the best shoes to be tumbling, but like I said, I was I had already assessed, we're on this floor.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Then a month later, we show up to the actual sound stage where we're filming, and they had gotten rid of the entire deck.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why, and we were on concrete with a little thin piece of Marley on top of the concrete.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I've done tumbling passes in Times Square, like I've I know what I'm doing.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: However, when you put Marley on top of concrete, it just zaps your energy, right?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And add on to the shoes, and also being an older performer and doing it a million times.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: So there was just this time, I don't know how many times we had done it already, and I had done the warm-up, I had done everything.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: She rips the thing off my head.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I go to tumble, and on the round off, now mind you, people were getting injured left and right because we were on this improper flooring, but I had blown through two pairs of shoes already, like the soles busted out of them.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, geez.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I do the round off, and what you for what I didn't realize about your Achilles, right, is that it not only stops like a moving train, but it immediately sends it back up within a second, right?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like it stops like a hundred mile an hour heel coming to hit the ground, and then it flings it back up.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it was on the down somehow that Achilles just went.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: I everyone could hear it.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't, I didn't know what it was.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I did the I did the round off, but my right foot and the propulsion of energy I'd put into this sent me upside down into the air.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, huh, I just blew through my shoe and I landed and it was like, it hurts so bad.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I looked down on my shoe.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: The number is still going on around me.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, you got to learn how not to be.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And literally, I look at my shoe and it's still on, and I go, Oh, this is bad.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I I like hobble over, and literally J Lo comes over and she's like, Hey Boo, you doing okay?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: She said some other things.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, this nurse comes over, puts like a blanket down, and like magic carpets me off the sink.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: She squeezes my calf, which is like the Achilles testing.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Clearly, this was fully ruptured, but she wasn't gonna tell me that.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, Why don't you take 30 minutes?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: The whole Sergio's whole choreo team was so nice to me.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, because I was feeling so guilty.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even worry that it hurt really bad.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: I felt so responsible for ruining the movie.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, How are they gonna get a tumbler for this?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're literally filming today.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I the weight of the world was on me, and I felt like this was why I was hired.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I do.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: The one thing I could always rely on failed me.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so eventually 30 minutes later, I tried to stand and my foot was just flopping, right?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: So now they sent me to an urgent care to get an x-ray, the x-ray, because they just have to have someone initially look at it to say, Yeah, you need to go see a doctor.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, wow.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_04: So, okay, so we have a fractured sesamoid, we have a ruptured Achilles.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_04: Courtney, tell us about your ailments.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'll I'll be brief with my ailments.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was similar in the sense, uh, Kate, where I never really grew up with many injuries.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was diagnosed after puberty in ballet with snapping hip syndrome because I had a lot of like when you would rendezam from front to side and you'd roll over like the tendon in your hip, and they they were like, dancers get this all the time.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: I did like cortisone injections, it didn't work.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Come to find out, I think it was just a weakening in my abdominals from protecting and like lack of strength there.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, which then also probably tied to that weakening in my core, led to me obtaining a stress fracture in my L4L5 on the West Side Story International Tour.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it was misdiagnosed at first.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was extremely scary because I didn't do anything to make it happen.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I it was just a wear and tear injury, essentially, an overuse wear and tear injury that eventually had to finally snap and be, you know, it's it's it's time to see a doctor.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have a tragic fall.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: There there wasn't any type of drop and a lift or anything like that.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: It just came absolutely out of nowhere.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was the hard uh mental aspect for me because it happened mid-show where I was, I it was during West Side Story.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you're familiar with the show, there's like the girls do a little bit of dance at the gym and then they have a break before cool.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I was changing my costumes.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like getting ready and I just couldn't stand up from sitting.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was so painful to like push my pelvis forward.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was just in excruciating pain and I didn't know what to do.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I just felt like I was also like letting the show down because it was like a mid-show injury and our it was early in the tour, our understudies weren't ready yet.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: So like someone had to just kind of figure it out and jump in and just get like shoved with love.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like feeling, and I was like the assistant dance captain.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I just felt awful to let my cast down.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Come to find out, went to a doctor.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: They just like they thought it was a slip disk, and then they determined it wasn't.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: So they were just like, you're fine, just be out for a few weeks, just rest, recover.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Once I got back to the states on a layoff, I went to a real doctor in New York City who then uh took imaging and said that they think this was a stress fracture that has tried to heal itself.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: So now there's scar tissue in the way.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: So they told me similar, Leslie, how they're like, just don't releve.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it was just don't do any cambraes back.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: No flexion backwards in your back.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's the entire West Side Story show.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you expect?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm getting fi, I'm gonna get fired.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I have to now tell my show, I'm sorry, but I just got diagnosed with this.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I can dance but not go backwards.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what can we do?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And they were willing to work with me.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was in like a back brace as much as I could be on tour and uh was in PT while we were in a sit-down in Paris, and they just eliminated me from certain parts of the show that had too much of that flexion to help me heal, but still allow me to perform.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a really tough battle.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: I've actually dealt with back pain my entire career, and I'm still dealing with it to this day.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, that's my I'm a back back injury girl over here.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_04: Leslie, you're go.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_04: Well, most of our listeners know a little bit about my injuries because they have all happened over the past like seven years, and we've been doing this podcast for six.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_04: But I have what is called an osteochondral lesion of the talus, which is basically my ankle has been sprained so many times because I have very loose ankles that the cartilage in that bone has just worn away and now there's a big hole.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_04: So it's bone on bone.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_04: And that is similar to you, Courtney.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like I didn't really have necessarily any injuries.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't one thing that happened, it was overuse, just a lot of time and just my personal anatomy that created that issue.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_04: And then I was really not even really dancing anymore or performing.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_04: I was doing more teaching.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I just every time I did like a toe ball heel or rolled down from Relevant or stepped down a stair or landed a leap, I my ankle would just stop.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_04: It would just collapse, stop working.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_04: And it was to the point where I was like, I can't even live a normal life as a human with this injury.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_04: Not to mention dancing.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I have had three surgeries on that.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_04: I have had a brace put into my ankle so that it stops it from rolling.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because that's just how my feet are.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_04: So that has helped a lot.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_04: But unfortunately, it is still, it's one of those things that, like, just like your sesamoid, you're just on your feet as a human.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_04: And like, even though I've done PT for months and months and months with excellent PTs, I live in New York City as well.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_04: So I have had the Harkness people, I've had the NYU people, I've had dance doctors dealing with all of this.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_04: It's one of those things that I'll be dealing with the rest of my life.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_04: And it's frustrating because I still, you know, I was just in Puerto Rico for my birthday, for my 40th birthday.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh welcome to the club, Andrew, next year.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I just we were hiking.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_04: And it like for about a year, about two years ago, I could hike and not have a real problem.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_04: And now it's back to like it catches again because I think that cartilage has worn down after, you know, we've repaired it and we've debreeded it and we've put the the uh plasma rich, platelet rich plasma into it to like make things happen and make things regrow.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_04: And it's just because that's where your weight is going, it will always be broken down.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, it is it is frustrating because that really does mean that I don't really get to dance really in any sort of way that I ever would want to.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like I can go take a class here and there and I will pay for it the next day.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_04: And that is just really sad, and that's how it is.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_04: So I think there's there's a lot of um sort of regret that I didn't do more prior to having this injury, like, but I didn't know.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I I rolled my ankle and I just went on with my day.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_04: I rolled my ankle, just with went on with the show because it wasn't that bad at the moment.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_04: But come to find out exactly later, your body is your body keeps score, is um the thing I want to impart to the young people.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it does.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I've gained a new injury when every show that I've done.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: I can be like, oh, that's from Radio City.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's from Finding Neverland, oh, that's like every single one, like a different part of my body.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like my big toe has arthritis in it from wearing heels.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just don't even think about the little things.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And something before we get into like more, I want to hear more about y'all, but something I just want to like reiterate to all of our listeners is hearing everybody's different journey and stories that some injuries are you cannot prevent because that's just how you that's just how your body is designed.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then also as a dancer, we're putting our body into stress levels of different hypermobility positions, overuse, all of those things.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's bound to happen for some people, just on how your body is designed, regardless of how much preventative care you're doing and how much strength and conditioning you're doing.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's just unfortunately true.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't predict it and you don't know it's gonna happen.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: The other one is regardless of injuries can happen at any age.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, in like Kate and my scenario, I was 22, 23 when my first big injury happened.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Kate, you were a sophomore in college, so you were 19, 20 years old.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then Andrew, your first major injury is later in your life, and that was and yours actually is more of a less wear and tear, more of a traumatic, like it happened during the event, it happened during what you were trying to do, you know?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, there's all different types of injuries that we have shared here, and I just want listeners to keep that in mind as we continue on with this discussion.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we kind of all touched on like what we felt when we found out that we were injured.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think that it there's a big mental aspect to this, a lot more than people think, because you you do like I like I mentioned, and you said the same thing, Andrew.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: We immediately felt that we were letting down people, that we were letting down the show, that we were letting down the movie, the producers.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was hired for this.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now I can't do that.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: What happens to my job security?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Am I getting fired?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, am I protected?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Are you do you support me?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like all those things run through your mind when you're injured, besides thinking about I gotta fix me.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to expand on anything, I know Andrew, you were kind of going there a little bit if you want to expand on that.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll just tell you briefly, sort of like for me, when this happened, I was kind of not left in the dark, but they sent me like a workers' comp um number and uh and a person.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I called them and they were like, okay, you have to find this in New York, but you're really on your own.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Just find whoever takes a worker's comp.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: In a city like this, where there's just a million options, I don't know, and it's my Achilles.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is how I make like I don't want to make any of the wrong decisions.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to say any of this as medical advice for other people to take, but I will just mention what I did.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: I found out that hospital for special surgery is number one essentially in the world or something.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: It is the best, it is the place to go.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you, if your doctor takes workers' comp, like I highly recommend hospital for special surgery.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, it was literally calling so many, and of course, all of like the number one rated experts are all super busy, and so you're just sitting there nursing this injury that you don't really know what's fully going on.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: But eventually I did find, but I just did search after search after search.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're really by yourself.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's really just go find this on your own.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: As an adult, yes.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: As an adult.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: I just pictured the movie had like, you know, they're like, oh, well, you know, the the Yankees have this sports person that they use.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Go to them.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, I there was no like JLo specialty doctor coming over.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I felt like I did luck out though.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: I found a great doctor, and he essentially said, we have to do this ASAP.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's a lot of people out there who get injuries, they're like, Oh, I just don't want it.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: To me, I just go go do the surgery.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's really not that bad.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: The surgery is like the easiest thing in the world.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I will say having a foot injury, there's this thing called a knee rover, and it's kind of like a scooter for your you put your sheen on it.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and literally the thought of someone walking on crutches, it's so chafing and horrible.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how anyone does it.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: The knee rover got me around the city.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: I would literally put my backpack on the handlebars, and I since I had one good foot, I would, and of course, New York City, the subways, maybe one out of every 10 is handicapped accessible.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like hopping on one leg with my knee rover and a backpack.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I still got around the city.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: I still got around because I was like, nothing's gonna keep me down.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: But the knee rover for sure, the best thing ever.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing no one really tells you.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: But and then it was similar.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was like two months of non-weight bearing.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, I'm a person who doesn't receive like attention well.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't love I it's not that I don't love it.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't take a lot of like cards and flowers, like that stuff, just like I get overwhelmed and I feel like I don't deserve it because hey, this injury happened and I thought it was my fault.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I just really slid into, and I lost my equity health insurance during this.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna be able to get it back this summer this past summer, and I couldn't.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: So here I am.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: I have no way of making money.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Luckily, because you're on a workers' comp, I think you make like a third of your highest, which thank God I was on a film.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: So like my worker's comp sort of got me by.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I yeah, I essentially you're working for a workers' comp at this point, right?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're just like, no, my job is to sit here and not put weight on it.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and then I couldn't go to my therapist anymore because I didn't have health insurance.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of the things I recommend is like go to your the minute an injury happens on a job, A, talk to a lawyer.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: I know that sounds gross and whatever, but like find a lawyer just to make sure everything is kosher, right?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: A.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then B, when you go to that doctor, get a prescription for therapy because a lot of these calm people, you really do have to like push and convince them.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: But and I wish I had done it sooner.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, like I think the mental health thing is way more important than the injury itself.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Your Achilles will actually heal itself on its own.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: You don't even have to get the surgery, but it takes forever and it's bad.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like get the surgery because this feels so faster.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: But like the the nastiness of the thing of setting in of like, oh, am I ever gonna tumble again?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Am I gonna feel safe to tumble again on this thing?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_04: Can I trust this body part?
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I I had months of like literally looking at my ankle and telling it, you're safe.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_04: You've had surgery, it's fixed.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_04: You can like, I know the wires say it hurts, but like you have to reframe what that is.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_04: And that's like something I think nobody really I I told my PT all the time, like, you're actually doing mental health therapy also right now.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I hope you know that because I'm over here crying because I can't point my foot.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_04: And it's not because it hurts, it's because I think I think it's gonna hurt.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_04: And then I feel like, okay, well, what am I gonna do with the rest of my life?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_04: I've always just sat here in the kitchen and done tondus while I'm making dinner and relevaes, and it's like, that's all I want to do.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_04: Can I just do that?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh just briefly to wrap it up, like essentially, yeah, you you then start going to PT.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then initially everyone just tries to soften the landing, right?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, it's gonna be great, you're gonna be better.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then I actually talk to people about Achilles injuries.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh no, boo, that's like a year to 18 months.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're not gonna be back for a long time.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: But the the workers comp people, of course, are like, no, of course, you can go work an office job.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I was injured doing a tumbling past, I was not injured sitting at a desk.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: You need to get me back to that tumbling past.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's your job.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it is the battle.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: They've tried to drop me so many times.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: I have to fight and fight and fight and fight and fight.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: They try to fight you with PT.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: I have found that PT really is like supervised workouts.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I like PT and then I don't love it.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have weird feelings about it.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think for some people it's amazing.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me it was great for the beginning.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: It made me dedicated, and then I found other things that I like better.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, I'm talking too much.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 41:19
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• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Kate, I'd love to hear about how this impacted your next semester and possibly more for the rest of your col your time at college.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: So when I got the diagnosis in the news, I was like, my initial thought was I'm in a dance program.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like I literally am like, I, you know, took a spot.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was a competitive dance program, and people audition all over the, you know, maybe world, and like I was accepted to this.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: This is someone else's spot.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: Are they gonna like give it to somebody else?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: People are gonna transfer in and out of schools all the time.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, okay, you know, what am I gonna do now?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm already registered for a spring semester.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm already registered for, you know, modern this, ballet this, and you know, academic classes that work around your dance classes with my friends, you know, like we all get together and like find classes that we can take together.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like we took Spanish or like whatever, right?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, great.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: So not only am I gonna have to like figure this out, I'm probably not gonna be with my friends.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I go to my advisor and like they were amazing, like they were so supportive.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: It the advisors are actually the dance faculty of the program and like super helpful and like understanding and You know, in that moment where you already feel defeated, like having people that are supporting you and guiding you is so important.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you have people like, oh well, I don't know what we're gonna do, you're just gonna have to leave, then you're like, you know, the world just crumbles.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: So that was like a huge godsend.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: And they were super supportive, they helped me figure out like realigning essentially my rest of my college life, right?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: So you have like a plan, and then now's plan B because plan A just, you know, is not happening.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I ended up taking all academic classes for that semester.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: I got like ahead in a way of my academics.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, you know, some things you can stack and some things you can't because you have to take a lower A to take a high B, a high A or whatever.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: But I ended up being able to kind of like interlace those.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: Then there's dance academics, like we did rhythmic training where we learned about like musicality, you know, there's like choreography classes and whatnot.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I was able to take some stuff that wasn't involving any movement.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: So that was a plus.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then so with the program though, we do a lot of performing, right?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_03: As a BFA, you're like, that's what you're there for is to like learn from like, you know, the part Parsons came in, and like we had all these people come in, battle works, and like, you know, that's what you're there for.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I couldn't do any of that.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so my um the head of the department was like, you know, we don't want you to feel like you're not involved.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: We don't want you to feel like you're just here to like take academics and you don't have any part in this, you know.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: So they said, like, why don't you try to do some of the behind-the-scenes stuff?
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: Why don't you get involved with like, you know, the tech crew and like all the stuff that like, you know, you do like an all black on the side of the stage, right?
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so I did that.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: I did that for every show, and it helped me stay connected, it helped me stay like involved in what happens.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: It gave me a huge perspective on like what happens behind the scenes, right?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because we're so used to what happens on the stage.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: So there were so many like positive things that came out of it, you know, and then but it was still like a huge like mental haul.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was like, okay, knowing this injury, knowing I can possibly recover, possibly recover from it, but also like if you don't, then surgery is the option, you know.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm like, I could spend all these months, like six months trying to recover, and then at the end of six months, now need surgery.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like so that like anxiety of not really knowing, like, is this gonna work out?
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like I had my school behind me, I had my family supporting me financially, like, you know, I I took so many cab rides across town to get to my PT sessions.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it was insane.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, when I was on crutches, I remember getting on a cross town bus once, and like I was wearing this, like I said, I had this huge cast for no reason that went above my knee and I couldn't bend my knee.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: So imagine sitting on a cross town bus with your legs sticking out and people trying to like in rush hour.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: Right, like who was this trick?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was me.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I tried it once and I was like, okay, that's not gonna work again.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm living the calf life.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: But um, yeah, I mean, there were so many sacrifices, you know, and I think that was part of it.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_03: It was like, okay, you had these like roller coaster of emotions, like I can do this, I'll be fine.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_03: I have people behind me, you know, I'm like grateful for my family supporting me financially and all these appointments.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then you're like, oh, but this is the worst thing that could happen.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not in dance class with all my friends, I can't even walk right now.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I what am I supposed to do?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: This is the first thing I've experienced like this.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: So it was a roller coaster, you know, and like I remember too, like I when I got into physical therapy itself and like started this is like my first PT experience, which is so weird because like it foreshadowed the rest of my life in a way.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_03: But like these people, like I walked into that first session and I was doing like the craziest upper body workouts.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_03: I was like thinking, I'm here for my my foot.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like I'm like, I'm here for like I have this bone in my foot that's messed up.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: Are we gonna address that?
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and they're like, Oh yeah, eventually, eventually, but you can't put weight on your foot.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: So we're I mean, I was doing like full on, like I felt like I was training for like, you know, a body trainer series or something.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: It was like so crazy.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: So but it was intense, you know.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I mean, I think like having a plan was really effective, like knowing, like, okay, I can still graduate on time, you know.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, things might be a little askew, you know, having support was important.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then just trying to like, you know, now looking back would have been helpful to have some kind of like mental health counselor guiding me through that, probably, you know, like it is at a huge emotional toll.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I see like students I teach now that are in their high school years getting these injuries in your like senior year and stuff.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I want to be like, just go get a mental health counselor or somebody, a therapist of some kind to just guide you through this experience.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I want to say that, but I can't offer that advice as it's you know, I'm not your mom.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, like just telling them like this is, you know, it's a lot.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just a physical injury, right?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's a mental injury.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: So have to take it, you know, both ways.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think it plays such a big role in the injury, overcoming the injury too.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and once you're healed, even still, you know, I think that it's still gonna play a role in that because it's kind of always lingering in the background.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's always kind of with you still.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh you're just kind of waiting.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like a waiting game.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: When's this gonna pop up again?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna start feeling pain again?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: You hope you're healed, you hope you're fixed, you hope the surgery fixed it, you hope the pizza fixed it.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: But again, even like I kind of hinted at, every I've gained so many different small minor injuries that do kind of just get aggravated and flare up here and there.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just like a part of my dancer body now.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's just like as you age and grow, that's just something that you have to accept.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you figure out how to work around it.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: You fig you figure out what works for you.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: But like something that I've felt, especially when I was dealing with my back pain, after I sort of got healed, but then it came back later in my later 20s.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was afraid that I wasn't going to be able to deliver what was expected of me on a contract or on a job.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: And like, for example, Andrew, like you probably would have never known, but like I went and got nerve block injections the day before we left for our contract on Jerome Robbins Broadway to get me through the two weeks of our time in St.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: Louis so I could perform at my highest level.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't have any pain.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: And the moment I got off that contract, guess what?
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: That pain poop came right back.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it was back in action and I was, you know, upset again.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it was, it was hard for me to figure that out because I felt like, what if a choreographer on the job says, hey, can you do XYZ?
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't be the dancer that says, Oh, I'm injured, I'm sorry, I can't do that.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: I can do everything else, but I actually can't really do that.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: Can't do that move that you need to meet it's like, no, no, no, that's my job to do that.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can't say no.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: So then you're uh afraid that you might not you might get taken out of that section, or oh, Court Courtney's gonna file an injury report or whatever it is.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: All those things start going through your brain, or are they gonna just let her go because she's not she's not executing the track and the the role that she was assigned to?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like that is a hard thing to navigate as well.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure even young dancers can relate to that if they have dealt with an injury or currently dealing with an injury for competition dances, auditions, whatever it is.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I would make an amend like you can tell them that.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: You can.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: You can.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: You can.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: Scary, but you can.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to do it.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking more so like once once you're already like on the job.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like obviously before they have to figure out whether you're a right fit for them or not.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say when you're when you're there and you're hired and you're and something happens and all of a sudden that injury comes up, like tell them because they they're not for the most part, I don't think they're gonna fire you.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're gonna just find a way to put you in something else and whatever.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because you gotta you gotta protect your body.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you do.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: You have to, and I think for yourself.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: You have to.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the things, even though I've done this entire process, in my opinion, like wrong, like I've just been like a mental basket case.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: It also has to have I've hit so many rock bottoms that it's forced me to look at some things and make them healthier for myself.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: So every- Can you elaborate on that a little bit?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think that, you know, what I what I love about having guests on our podcast who are just so fresh and honest, like both of you, is that like we don't want to whitewash this for lack of a better term.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like we don't want to scrub this nice and clean and say, you can do it, because it's really hard.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_04: If you didn't like you or tell us, tell us more.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what have you reevaluated through this process that you're like, man, that that was not good for me.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't do this well.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_04: How do I change it?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_04: What do I change it to?
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_04: Because the reality is like not all of us are gonna do things right the first time, and we have to learn how to do it better.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for instance, for me, I mean, I it's gotten really mentally dark.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've gotten really down on myself going, okay, I'm almost 40, but I've invested so much in this career, I can't just pivot to another.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I the demons just come out and they pull you down.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so dark um that I had to just hit rock bottom several times.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: And my partner and several of my friends have witnessed it.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have found like I go to like a free counseling group thing now, right?
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's just how I've dealt with it for the time being.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: I go and we like circle up and talk about lots of different things.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: It forced me to deal with these demons whether I like it or not.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I now just was like, okay, I'm gonna go to gymnastics, I'm gonna go to Chelsea Pierce, I'm gonna put as many cushy mass up as possible, and all I'm gonna do is forward rolls and cartwheels.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there I started doing round offs.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then, and I every time I go, I always feel like I have to explain to these people that are like tumbling around me, like, oh, I swear I know what I'm doing, but like actually I'm better than this.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, yeah.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm better than just like I like, but then I started going, why do I feel like I have to explain myself to the world?
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can just be I can be this injured guy living in New York City, and like getting just rid of the shame of it, there's so much shame that comes with injury.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's why all of this just comes to like talk to other people with the injury, right?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Find your Achilles friends, you know, find your back pain friends, like find that community so they can tell you you need to put ice on the back of your knee, but my Achilles is down here, yeah.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it like does something with your blood flow, like whatever.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, I've just been slowly, slowly coming into like I can go to a gymnastics class and do that.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then I finally went to my first audition the other day.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't and it was also like I had to do a backhand spring in it, and I just felt empowered to be honest with them.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I just said, I'm just starting from scratch.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so nervous, even singing, like I got to the singing part, and I was like, I totally flubbed.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: I like only sang the chorus and I missed the verse before.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I just went, you know what?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm doing the best I can.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I was at super rock bottom like three months ago where it was like really dark, like scary dark.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm sitting in a in a room for like a Broadway audition.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, even if I mess up and I don't get this, who cares?
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like all of that.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, anyway.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: But like, yeah, finding, I guess, your free resources.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: They're not always the best, but it's something.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_04: Something's better than nothing.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, I think I I say this a lot on the podcast, but like, listeners, you have a huge resource here.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_04: Here we are.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_04: Hello, making the big all these new people.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_04: You have they're gonna, you know, Kate and Andrew are gonna join our group on Facebook.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_04: So if you are going through an injury and you need, you know, if your Achilles has ruptured, you can talk to Andrew.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you have a talk to you, sometimes just talking about it is better than than all of the other things.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I mean, I would I had to go to Reddit for my particular injury because like it's very, very specific.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like dancers get it, and it's not really a lot of dancers because of just where it is.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I didn't have anybody who knew what the heck I was talking about when I said osteochondral lesion of the talus.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like, that's a lot of words.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, I'm really, I'm really grateful that like we have this huge community now of people who probably have had multiple different kinds of injuries so that people at least have this one free resource, if not more, from somewhere else.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's, I mean, and there's a dancer out there who has experienced the same injury as you somewhere.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: There is a dancer who's been through it.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's things that have worked for them that have not worked for them.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: So finding those people and speaking about it and knowing that you're not alone in this recovery and in this circumstance is really important for recovery, I think, uh, out of it.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it is very hard to overcome these injuries.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I think an important aspect of why we want to share people's stories here on the podcast is to just again reiterate how important protecting our bodies are, because all of us here have had careers professionally in the dance world.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: But like we've kind of said, our injuries have happened maybe earlier on in that career, maybe later on in that career.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: You never know when it could happen.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then you might look back and say, man, I wish I did more, or I did that job, or I did this or that before I got this career-impacting injury, you know, and it's it's very, very hard to predict those things.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I always stress to all of the dancers, the young dancers who are training who think they're invincible.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: You think you are invincible and you're you get one body, y'all.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: You get one.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: You have to take care of it.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we cannot be doing knee drops anymore and slamming to concrete at all.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do not dance on concrete at all if you can prevent it.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: Don't like, you know, like we we have to start learning and educating, and we shouldn't.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like when I look back, I didn't learn these things until it was too late.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I started learning, oh, I should be doing this for my warm-up, or I should be doing this to protect that, or no more photo shoots on concrete, like things like that that I didn't know until I like couldn't walk the next day.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: And my body was telling me, like, yo, stop doing that, you know?
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's hard because as young dancers, like, parents don't really know.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: Teachers might not be guiding in the right way.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: Dancers are just learning, they're just doing what the teachers tell them.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_04: And it can feel perfectly fine for many, many times.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_04: But inside, your body is is deteriorating.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, all the time.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_04: All of our bodies are always deteriorating.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_04: So if you're continuing to do stressing things to it, you know, the knee drops specifically and over stretching and over-splitting and doing all kinds of contortion if you're not really ready for it, it will eventually catch up to you.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_04: And like that is, you know, having having reached this milestone of my life, turning 40, like I d I remember, I really remember being that dancer who just thought, well, it's fine.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's fine.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't hurt.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't hurt.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_04: And it's going to later.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like just if you don't, if you believe everything else, right.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_04: Believe that.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: Have you sure have you, uh, Kate, have you noticed anything like that?
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're actively training competitive dancers.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: So is there is there anything that you've noticed from dancers like doing skills too frequently?
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, have you experienced injuries within your own dancers to help them overcome that?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, I think a a thing to say and a thing to recognize in this age is that we have so many resources that we didn't have, you know?
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like the world is like really pushing for like good flooring at conventions and competitions, and they're pushing for like, you know, wellness and they're pushing for like nutrition and like we're just guided to this different world now that I feel like didn't exist for us.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like, really, like I don't think people really were that immersed in this culture 20 years ago, right?
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_03: Agree.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, as we yeah, so as we progress to that, I feel like dancers have such an amazing uh like resource they could use potentially to prevent injuries and reduce risk of injuries and just take better care of their bodies, you know.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_03: But I also feel like with that, there's still that naivety of like not really knowing like what they should do, you know.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: I will say with the dancers I trained, like we're they're they have a great ballet foundation.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: They're they're dancing very frequently, lots of performance opportunities and stuff.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_03: And this past year, um, we had a lot of like foot injuries.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it was a lot of fifth metatarsal fractures.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, just like a random, you know, injury, but it's also called the dancer's fracture.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_03: So it's also, you know, kind of kind of common, but something kind of quick to bounce back from, but also like, you know, seeing some of them, like one of the dancers I had trained, gosh, for 12 years.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_03: So it was she was a senior and I had taught her for 12 years, and um seeing her in her senior year like go through that, you know, like it was just like so, so hard.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like it hit her so hard.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_03: I felt like for her, like, you know, and what I like to say to people, and I would say this when I was, you know, doing physical therapy and and working with patients and like now, you know, working with dancers, is it's not forever.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I think in the moment it feels like you're watching paint dry.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like you're standing in front of the microwave waiting for the food to cook.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like you literally are just standing there waiting for something to just like be sped up in time to change.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's teaching you something for a reason, right?
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_03: We are we are led to this experience for some reason we don't know.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_03: For me, like I became so connected to PT that I probably never would have been connected to PT.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'm a licensed PTA.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'm working with relative motion because I have a PTA degree, because I am a, you know, for was a professional dancer, because I was a teacher.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like you just don't really know.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I think in the moment we want to have it all figured out and we want to know, like, this is a this this was my plan though.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like I wanted to do this and this, and like I I have to do that, you know, and like you don't always have to.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: There's something else that is, you know, is you're being led to.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we just need to like, you know, really recognize that and not be super like stressed out in the moment.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_03: And what I like to say, it feels like forever, but it's literally uh the smallest sliver of your life, like the six months that I of of my entire life, right?
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: Six months, and here's my whole life, you know.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I try to like preach that to people, like and and to take it, like don't take it with a grain of salt, you know, like don't think like, oh, this is whatever, I'll be fine.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_03: No, like treat your injury, right?
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, see what's going on, get the proper care.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: I always I have like a whole pamphlet that I give to the studio of like what to do if your kid's injured because parents go to urgent care, they get an x-ray.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the x-ray does not show soft tissue, right?
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_03: The x-ray shows bones.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: So if you have any kind of soft tissue injury or any kind of nerve impingement or something going on, none of that is recognized in that that kind of imaging.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_03: So go to a a sports doctor, go to an orthopedic doctor, go.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have a ton of like dance PT specialty down here like you guys do in New York City, but like find that avenue that's gonna guide you and understand your body, understands your instrument, can give you that information.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so important.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_03: And like, because dancers will waste so much time from the onset of the injury to like the recovery period because we don't even know what's wrong.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_03: So, like some dancers might keep dancing, oh, let me just see what happened.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_03: Some dancers might like, oh, I I I'm gonna go to a doctor, but I don't know yet.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, just go, just figure it out.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_03: I understand doctors can't always get you in.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_03: Get in with somebody, right?
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_03: Get in with someone that's knowledgeable, get that information and get a second opinion when they tell you nothing's wrong.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, no, I have this intuition to my body.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: I know my body very well as a dancer.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_03: There is something wrong.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: No, sir, I cannot jump on that foot right now.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_03: That does not feel good.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_03: But but yeah, like just, you know, I I always advocate for doing what you need to do, right?
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: If the doctor says go to PT, go to PT, okay?
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like find a PT that's gonna understand that you need to have a progression back to dance.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's a huge part of it too, is it's like we can't go from doing like single leg balance at PT to then doing like huge jumps, right?
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_03: There has to be that moment of like recognizing there has to be someone that has to know your sport and train you for your sport.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_03: They call it return to sport for a reason, right?
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I think if we miss that, we miss that puzzle piece, you know.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_03: And um, a lot of times too, you have an injury and we call it like the domino effect.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_03: You may never have an injury, right?
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then you have one injury and then bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, because your body is literally affected by everything.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you have a foot problem, now all of a sudden you have hip pain because you started walking weird to offset the hip issue.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then now now your hip bothers you.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_03: So now that shoulder on that opposite side's a little bit weird too, because your back is twisted.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, everything just like goes up the chain, right?
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's important to, you know, warm up before shows.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like I preach warm up before you go on stage.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like I when I was younger, I was very committed and like I'm still committed.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm just saying when I was a kid and I was like warming up for my solos or solo, I would have headphones in, you know, on my disc man, and like I would be practicing my solo and like doing a full ballet bar for an hour in the dressing room in my own solitude.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was like, that's like what I did, you know?
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_03: So don't go jump on stage and like not have a warm body, right?
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: Don't walk off stage in like the middle of a frigid Minneapolis or wherever you live and like not be like well covered and let keep those bones and muscles and everything, you know, warm.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's just it's just recognizing that like this is something you have to understand if this is what you want to do.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_03: You cannot take it with the you cannot take it lightly, you have to immerse yourself in it, you have to communicate with people and like what Andrew said, like talk to people that have had your injury, whatever it might be, the second you open up about it, there's someone there to like receive your information.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like you find your network, you find your new family, you find you all can like build off each other, you can bounce off each other, and it gives you hope, you know, in those periods that it might feel really dark and it it absolutely will.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm not gonna like sugarcoat it, but it's just like kind of figuring out like, and you know, now as I teach and I do so much of this relative motion and we try to work through injuries and we try to prevent injuries, right?
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_03: We try to make sure dancers don't acquire injuries.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's safe training, you know.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think if we can try to implement safer training into dancers and that they understand their alignment, that they understand their body, like can we take anatomy when we're 10?
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know that that'd be amazing, right?
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because I didn't take anatomy until I went to college.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like I would have loved that anatomy concept like years ago, right?
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, so just bringing awareness is huge and just recognizing that you know, you're you're you can have your moment, you can have your your grief, you can cry about it.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's totally normal.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that we have to pick our pants back up and we have to move on, you know?
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_03: And knowing that it's just a small part of your life and you will overcome it, hopefully, right?
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_03: This is something that if you do it right, it will work out, and you'll have that experience that's you can get.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: To someone else one day, you know, that'll be someone else's little story that guides them and makes them feel like this isn't the end, right?
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: Can I just add one thing really quick too?
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is I think a lot of dancers in New York City also go through major periods without insurance, right?
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes we get injured and we we can't even go see that person, right?
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: And what Kate was saying with so many resources out there, I often feel like, oh, but I'm not, I'm not in, like, I I can't really use the entertainment or whatever the actress fund is called anymore.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like entertainment or something.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: But like I can't tell you how many times I've been, I've like injured something and I've just called a doctor and just been like, listen, I'm a dancer, I don't have any insurance, I don't know how I'm gonna afford this, but like I don't know what to do.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm telling you what, humanity like over like comes out, and you might not, it might not be the first doctor you call, but like there are, like you were saying, resources out there.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are people that really want to help you.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: So find that ounce of self-love in you and like reach out to as many people, find the doctor that will be willing to see you, and you can get them a ticket to a show later on, like whatever it is.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's also where the darkness can come in, is you feel like I don't have the money, I don't have I'm not worth it sort of energy.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've gone through that a lot.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think also you were saying like this leads you towards something you don't know.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I am currently in this big, like, I can feel the plant like emerging out of the soil.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: But if I kept digging into that soil and trying to find what was going on and taking root underground, I would have killed it, right?
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_00: So like I just needed to keep trusting and being led to the right people.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, because I know if I hadn't been on that job, I'd been screwed.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_00: But also if I wasn't on that job, I'd still have to get this surgery somehow and I would have figured it out.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you said that because something that was running through my head as we were all sharing our different per our different journeys is that you and me, Andrew, are ours happened on a job, which we are you are typically for all of the listeners out there, especially if you have dancers who are interested in pursuing a career in dance, you are oftentimes protected and taken care of on a job.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_01: There are a handful of jobs where they expect you to have your own insurance when you do those jobs, some 1099 independent contractor stuff where there isn't workman's comp that does exist.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it that's kind of rare, to be completely honest.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the time you are always taken care of on a cruise ship, on a production contract, on Broadway, on a national tour.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: There are people, there is workman's comp because you legally have to have it.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_01: That being said, what about if you get all this if you are in class and you get injured, or if you're at an audition and you get injured?
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's on you.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to be able to figure out can I afford to handle this injury?
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have insurance?
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_01: Am I still on my parents' insurance?
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or have you, are you too old to be on your parents' insurance and now you're on your own insurance?
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's the catastrophic and has a crazy deductible.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_01: And can you afford to get what is needed done?
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: Those things, like that's adulting.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: Those are all the things that are gonna happen when you become a professional and an adult.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_01: But the we actually had a conversation on our last podcast, our platinum premium exclusive podcast, where a mom was like, My daughter has this injury.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting it taken care of right now, we're getting it taken care of in a in a surgery right now while she's still on my insurance, while she's still young, because I don't want it to get worse before she and then that mom was asking, How do how do dance do dancers have insurance?
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: Are professional dancers covered with insurance?
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and it is a laughable thing because it's like barely, like even Andrew, you were like, My uh my union insurance ran out.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: Your union insurance, everyone talks about the union, the union hooray, hooray.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_01: You don't get guaranteed insurance if you're in the union, you know?
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like you we have to make sure that we have even the the ability to get taken care of where we can afford it, because it is an expensive journey to get injured, and sadly, we can't prevent injury sometimes.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just like a really tough battle to navigate when you're also an adult dealing with it.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_01: So for all of the the kids that are experiencing it and the parents that are listening, listen to your dancers.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_01: If their body is telling them that they need to see a doctor, they need help, they need PT, they need surgery, take care of them because this is their body, and you wanna help you wanna give that to them while you it's still under your care before they go out into the adult life and they might not have those resources available as easily.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I just looked it up.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_00: It the uh the actors fund is now called the entertainment community fund.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it is a nationwide thing for anyone in the performing arts, even ushers, front-of-house staff.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_00: You can at bare minimum reach out.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're out there and you don't have insurance and you're living in Denver and you hurt your foot and you're a dancer out there, whatever, like at least reach out to them.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: At least have the thing to be like, I'm gonna look up the entertainment community fund and be like, I'm a dancer in Denver.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_00: I injured my foot, I don't know what to do.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Someone, there is some candle flickering out there that will pass to you.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_04: Great.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they're they're an amazing, amazing resource.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_04: I've used them many times for many years.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_01: We've all used them, yeah.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_04: And don't, and Andrew, you mentioned this earlier, but like, don't be afraid to ask for sliding scale anywhere you go because I was I was insured by a job, my first surgery.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I paid my deductible and the rest of it was covered.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_04: Thank God.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_04: My second two surgeries, because of the pandemic, I was on Medicaid.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, New York City.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_04: And Medicaid paid everything.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_04: And those bills were, I can't even, I'm going to throw up thinking about how much it would have cost me.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_04: But my physical therapist was not.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_04: The dance PT I wanted to see was not covered.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_04: They didn't take Medicaid.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_04: And I wasn't about to go to just Joe Schmoe, physical therapist, like, good on you.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_04: I'm glad you can rehab people who don't have something to get back to that's, you know, a higher level sport.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_04: But like I wanted to see a dance PT.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I specifically emailed them and I said, Hey, you guys don't take Medicaid.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_04: I can't even afford, I can't afford your self-pay.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_04: I'm a dancer.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_04: What can you do for me?
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_04: And they said, We can do self, we can do a sliding scale.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_04: They're willing to do it.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_04: You just have to ask.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody's advertising that they're going to give you this for cheaper.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_04: But as if you go to the right places, something like that will exist.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_04: And that allowed me to actually have some excellent PT that I could afford, you know?
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_04: And that's invaluable.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all, this was a fabulous chat.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to just thank you both for sharing your stories with us and your experiences and what you have had to deal with in your professional dance journeys.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it is honestly really inspiring for a lot of people to hear what you have been through, to know that there is an end in sight, that you're and that they're not the only ones.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of dancers who I know currently who are dealing with injuries that I know are gonna really appreciate hearing this episode.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I thank you both for being willing to share that with everyone out in podcast land in our dance community.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love for both of you, if you're willing and open, to share just one final thing, one final thought that you would like to share about this topic.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you can speak to whoever you want.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe your younger self, maybe a dancer out there overcoming an injury, maybe uh studios out there who want to do better with their training and prevent injuries.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Whoever you'd like to speak to when it comes to injuries throughout our dance years.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'll go first.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I kind of touched on this a little bit of it being like a small sliver of your life, but a takeaway is it's just now, it's not forever, you know.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_03: So do what you have to do now and know that it's it's not forever.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_03: You'll get through it.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_00: I would say for me, you know how we often say things, or I often say, like, oh, I'm so far off of my path.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm so far off of where I want to be in my life.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And but if you really think of if I think of my life as a highway and I'm driving down this road, whenever I am not looking at the road and I'm looking to the left and I'm like, oh, they just booked that thing, and I'm looking to the right, and oh, they're doing the thing I want to be doing.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And here I am in my car, and I have a ruptured Achilles, and I'm just like, and you feel like the headlights are off, and you are just driving through the woods and you're so far off the road, right?
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_00: The light always comes back.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_00: As Kate was saying, it is leading you towards something you don't know.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_00: The light, the headlights click back on.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden you realize, nope, I'm actually on the same highway.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And like I realized I can drive without the headlights on.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_00: I can drive without even looking straight at the road.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can be looking everywhere, I can have no foot somehow touching the gas and the brakes.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then the lights do come back on, and you go, I'm on the highway still.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, I'm a bad I can, I can drive on this road with a gajillion distractions and everything, and the universe somehow still kept me on here.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then you look around and you go, oh wait, I'm now in paradise, or I'm I'm actually, I've arrived where I didn't know this is where I wanted to be, but this is even better than I wanted it to be.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so, with all of my dark worse energy I've had on this podcast today, I I wanted to also say, like, like, I am, I am seeing the light now, right?
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I am, I am seeing that there is goodness and that I'm worthy, and that, like I said, the resources are out there for you.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is your world, and like totally grab on tight, and you're gonna be okay.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for tuning in to our latest episode all about recovering from a dance injury.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Huge shout out to our special guests, Kate and Andrew, for joining us on this chat and sharing their journey.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to follow them on Instagram.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_01: You can find Kate at it's Kate the Great and Andrew at AndrewWilson NY.
• 1:15:38
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• 1:15:45
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• 1:15:51
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• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_04: Join now at Impact Danceadjudicators.com slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you're looking for expert guidance to polish and perfect your routine before hitting the stage, then be sure to check out our popular service, IDAID's Online Judges Critiques.
• 1:16:15
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• 1:16:19
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• 1:16:25
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• 1:16:35
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• 1:16:42
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• 1:16:53
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• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_01: So what are you waiting for?
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Click the link in our show notes or visit our website at Impact DanceAjudicators.com/slash online critiques to submit your dance today.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_04: Season six of Making the Impact continues in the next few weeks with new episodes, including a day in the life of an NFL cheerleader and our next genre spotlight episode.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Happy competition season, everyone.