Latest / Collectors MD Features / #5: Recognizing Addiction And Sports Cards | The Shallow End

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#5: Recognizing Addiction And Sports Cards | The Shallow End · Collectors MD Features

0:00
Today's guest on The Shallow End is Alyx Effron.
0:02
He's the founder of Collectors MD, a group that
0:06
provides support to people struggling with addiction
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-like behavior around sports cards and other
0:11
collecting spaces. Since the group started a
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few months ago, I've watched with admiration
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as Alyx has addressed the elephant in the sports
0:20
card room. Addiction, secrecy, overspending,
0:25
loss of control. The discussion you're about
0:29
to hear might not be as enjoyable as hearing
0:32
about a big chase or a big pickup, but it also
0:36
just might be one of the most important pieces
0:38
of content you listen to this year. Do we control
0:43
sports cards or do they control us? And how do
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we know or sense when that line has been crossed?
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If this podcast makes you think about yourself,
0:56
or someone you know, I urge you to check out
1:00
collectorsmd .com. It's a great first step. My
1:06
name is Dave Schwartz. I would dave sports cards
1:09
on Instagram. This is The Shallow End. Thanks
1:12
for tuning in, and let's get started. Welcome
1:21
now to the podcast. This is Alyx. Alyx, I'm very
1:25
excited to... have you on we were chatting before
1:28
we hit record about some of the reasons for doing
1:32
what you're doing with Collectors MD first of
1:34
all thank you for being here and how are you
1:37
dave thank you so much for having me i really
1:40
appreciate you giving me the opportunity to come
1:42
on the show talk a little bit about what we're
1:45
doing at Collectors MD um it's been a little
1:49
over two months now so there's a lot to uh discuss
1:52
and some exciting announcements that we've been
1:57
working hard on. So yeah, man, thank you. Thank
2:00
you for having me. Before we get into what I
2:04
anticipate being an important and necessary conversation,
2:07
for those people who are listening or watching
2:10
and have not heard, can you explain what Collectors MD
2:15
is and what the mission is? Absolutely. So at
2:19
its core, the mission of Collectors MD is simple.
2:22
It's to bring support, awareness, and accountability
2:24
to a space that often blurs the line between
2:27
collecting and compulsion. We're not anti -hobby
2:30
by any means. We still love the hobby. That's
2:33
kind of something that comes up quite a bit.
2:36
It's not about shaming people for enjoying cards
2:38
or sneakers or comics or whatever they collect.
2:41
It's about recognizing when the lines get crossed,
2:44
right? When what used to bring joy starts to
2:47
cause stress, damage relationships, or drain
2:50
your finances. There are people out there who
2:53
are silently struggling with this, spending money
2:55
that they don't have, hiding purchases from their
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loved ones, chasing hits, feeling that dopamine
3:02
crash the second the break ends, and no one's
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really talking about it, at least not in a way
3:07
that feels safe or judgment -free, right? So
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that's where Collectors MD comes in. That's what
3:12
we're here for. We host weekly support meetings.
3:15
We put out content that speaks honestly about
3:18
mental and emotional toll. the mental and emotional
3:21
toll collecting can take. We're building a space
3:24
where people can be real about their experiences
3:28
without feeling alone or ashamed. We're also
3:32
advocating for change within the hobby, within
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the industry, things like better safeguards,
3:36
self -exclusion tools, transparency from platforms
3:39
and breakers, because if the hobby is going to
3:42
keep evolving, it has to do so responsibly. So
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yeah, this isn't just a content brand or a passion
3:48
project. It's a full -fledged movement. It's
3:52
one rooted in personal experience, real conversations,
3:55
and the belief that you can love the hobby and
3:57
hold it accountable at the same time. And to
4:00
be clear, oftentimes what gets most associated
4:04
with addiction and gambling, in my mind, went
4:09
to Gamblers Anonymous when you first started.
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And I know you've talked before about how that's
4:13
a corollary there between the two. Yeah. But
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people consider the breaking side of collecting
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to be more associated with gambling and addiction.
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But really, it's not just that. It can also be
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toward just the small purchases on eBay and ComSea
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and just buying and buying and buying. Is that
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correct? Yeah, that's 100 % correct. While breaking,
4:36
I think, mimics gambling more. more clearly uh
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any form of purchasing something that you don't
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know the contents of even if that's like a two
4:49
dollar value pack at target or walmart is technically
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gambling it falls within that category so um
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absolutely i mean gambling has existed within
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collecting uh specifically with sports cards
5:04
for for decades uh pretty much ever since you
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know it became popular it's just become more
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and more glorified especially by the manufacturers
5:14
and the higher powers within the industry they're
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creating mechanics they're creating features
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within their platforms that mimic gambling to
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such an extent that it screams you know uh for
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reform i mean there there has to be something
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that's put in place to protect the end consumer
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That is, you know, ultimately super vulnerable
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to falling down the wrong path. Before we get
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too deep into the conversation, people might
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want to know what your background is. So who
5:50
is Alyx and what are your ties in history with
5:53
the hobby? Yeah, so my name is Alyx Effron. I
5:57
have been a collector my entire life. Started
6:00
out really as sneakers. I was a big sneakerhead
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and I still am to an extent for many, many years.
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I, at one point, had over 500 pairs of sneakers,
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somewhere around my mid to late 20s. When the
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pandemic hit, I was reintroduced to the sports
6:20
card hobby by a friend that I grew up with. And
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I was invited to basically join a break group
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called Bogo Breaks, where we were breaking on
6:28
Instagram and Facebook on a daily basis. This
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was early on in the pandemic, say like around,
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started around like April or May of 2020. and
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uh i got sucked in really fast you know having
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that sort of collecting gene in me um i i just
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have always loved to collect not just sneakers
6:48
but uh memorabilia i mean i collected trading
6:51
cards when i was younger i grew up in the 90s
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so obviously pokemon and michael jordan and you
6:58
know upper deck fleer those were all deeply rooted
7:02
in in my childhood and so um The current state
7:07
of the hobby, or at least the state of the hobby
7:09
in 2020, was just so attractive to a collector,
7:12
especially someone who was collecting sneakers,
7:15
which take up a lot of space. As you can see
7:17
behind me, this is what's left of my collection.
7:20
But at one point, it just got so out of hand.
7:24
My wife, my girlfriend at the time, was scratching
7:28
her head, like, how are we going to... Did I
7:32
just lose you, Dave? No, I'm here. You mentioned
7:36
if you can see behind me, so I decided to make
7:39
you bigger on the screen. Got it. I was like,
7:40
where did he go? Yeah, so my wife would give
7:46
me a hard time. Every purchase, every week there
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was a new release and I'd have boxes coming in
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and the stacks were to the ceiling and I was
7:54
finding any and every crevice of... our home
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to store sneakers. And it just, it started to
8:02
really get out of hand. So the idea of collecting
8:05
sports cards or replacing, not fully replacing,
8:08
but replacing the sneaker obsession with something
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a little bit more accessible and I guess collectible
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in terms of how much space it takes up was just
8:22
really attractive to me. So I got sucked into
8:24
the hobby first on the breaking side, but then
8:26
started to join breaks. Started to open personals,
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you know, quickly found a few shops that I would
8:32
constantly break with or, you know, purchase
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those personals from. And that started to spiral.
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And, you know, I was also gambling, online gambling.
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Blackjack was my kryptonite. So I think like
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the sports card really fueled that behavior where,
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you know, there were cycles where I was joining
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two, three, four thousand dollar breaks. getting
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skunked, and then going and playing blackjack
9:00
to try to recoup my losses and doing it all over
9:02
again. So it got out of hand pretty quickly.
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And so over the last couple of years, you know,
9:10
I've been toying with this idea of Collectors
9:13
MD. I have experience going to GA meetings. I've,
9:17
you know, I've participated in outpatient treatment.
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actually at a local facility here in Jersey called
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Right Choice Recovery, where they focus on problematic
9:30
gambling and overcoming that addiction. That
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was like an 18 -week program that I did about
9:37
a year and a half, two years ago. So I have the
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experience, you know, through GA, through therapy.
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I'm not an expert in the space. I'm not a licensed
9:48
therapist. or a doctor or a clinician or anything
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like that. But I've experienced the highs and
9:56
lows of addiction firsthand. And I feel strongly
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that this area is completely lacking within the
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hobby, within the industry. And so I've been,
10:09
again, toying with this idea of Collectors MD
10:11
for some time now. And a little over two months
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ago, I just decided to... bring it to life and
10:18
it's been a rocket ship ever since so so what
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what led you to come to the conclusion that this
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was something that needed to be within the hobby
10:30
so you you felt what you were going through and
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i really commend you for for working through
10:35
it and getting help and that's that's incredible
10:37
what were sort of the motivating factors for
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wanting to first identify the signs that this
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was also happening within the hobby one and then
10:47
two to do something about it yeah so i think
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i recognized it when i self -excluded from gambling
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that's uh something that you can actually do
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in uh very depending on where you live but uh
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it's available in most states where gambling
11:04
online gambling that is is legalized so i self
11:08
-excluded in the state of new jersey First for
11:11
a year, because you have two options. You can
11:13
either do a year or five years. So this was back
11:16
in April of 2023. I self -excluded reluctantly
11:20
after a year or sorry, for a year after being,
11:24
you know, basically directed to or advised to
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in these GA rooms by therapists, by, you know,
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family members. It was just really hard for me
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to sort of, you know, come to terms with that.
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You know, it was a part of my identity, right?
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It was part of my lifestyle, so it was hard to
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let go. But I eventually did it and sort of refocused
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my attention, my energy, my finances to the hobby
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and the hobby, you know, exclusively. And as
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I continued to, you know, join more breaks and
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open more personals and started to spend money
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that I shouldn't have been spending, was spending
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beyond my means, I started to realize how many.
12:05
synergies there were between the hobby and gambling.
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And the fact that I couldn't self -exclude myself,
12:13
right? I couldn't put myself in timeout or put
12:16
myself in a cool off period or take a break from
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the apps. I still had access and I still to this
12:23
day have access was problematic to me. And it
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sounds a little crazy, right? Because as a normal
12:32
adult, you would think, How does another adult
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not have the wherewithal, not have the self -control
12:41
to avoid something that's toxic to them? But
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the reality is addiction is a real thing, and
12:50
it affects more than just alcoholics and drug
12:54
addicts and gambling addicts. a gambling machine
13:05
of sorts. And so, you know, again, not having
13:08
these limitations in place poses a lot of risk,
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a lot of issues for people like me who are susceptible
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to, you know, falling into these traps and going
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down these dark paths. It's such a slippery slope
13:23
in so many different ways. And so my hope, my
13:28
intention with Collectors MD is that we create
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enough awareness for the hobby and the industry
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to recognize that these guardrails, these limitations
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need to be implemented in order to protect the
13:44
consumer. What has been the response over the
13:49
last couple of months to a Collectors MD from
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people within the hobby community? It's been
13:57
received extremely well. I mean, I was, honestly,
14:03
taken aback a little bit, especially when I first
14:05
launched it. I had people reaching out who wanted
14:08
me to come on their podcast and talk about it.
14:12
I mean, this was like just a couple days in a
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week or two in and I didn't quite realize what
14:16
I was getting myself into. Because this is, you
14:20
know, surprisingly, I think to a lot of people,
14:22
an area of focus that people have been talking
14:27
about, or at least thinking about for a very
14:30
long time. And whether it's, you know, kind of
14:34
a topic that people shy away from because they
14:39
don't want to be judged or perceived the wrong
14:43
way or associated with their brand for, you know,
14:45
a number of reasons. That could be part of the
14:48
reason why this hasn't really come into, you
14:53
know, the light where it needs to be. But I think
14:59
with Collectors MD, it's allowed for that. It's
15:02
allowed for people who feel like they've been
15:07
alone for far too long to have a sense of community.
15:12
And that's what we're doing with the weekly support
15:14
meetings. People now have a platform or a community,
15:19
I should say, that they can be a part of and
15:22
know that they're not alone. There are other
15:23
people out there who are struggling with the
15:25
same things as them. Say a little bit more about
15:27
that, if you would, about these weekly support
15:30
meetings. And if people want, if people sense
15:33
something happening with themselves that they're
15:35
not happy with, that they want to change, what
15:38
tools does Collectors MD offer to help people?
15:45
Absolutely. So we started. our weekly support
15:49
meetings about six weeks ago this coming wednesday
15:53
tomorrow actually tomorrow night today's tuesday
15:55
i know this is gonna go live friday uh but as
15:58
of the time of this episode going live we will
16:03
have uh conducted six meetings um those meetings
16:07
basically have been inspired by my experience
16:11
in GA, where we have a foundation called the
16:15
Collectors MD Recovery Guide, which is basically
16:18
an adaption of the Gambler's Anonymous Yellow
16:21
Book, which covers the 12 steps of recovery.
16:26
There are 20 questions in there for anybody to
16:28
read through to see if they potentially have
16:30
a problem. And it goes through a variety of parts
16:35
ranging from, you know, when spending turns to
16:39
the cycle, to momentum versus intention, to defining
16:42
recovery, and really just digs into all these
16:45
details about addiction and about how, you know,
16:49
people can fall into these cycles within the
16:53
hobby. a really, really positive turnout. There's
16:58
actually a Google Forms link that you can go
17:02
to and answer a handful of preliminary questions
17:06
so that we can collect your information and ultimately
17:10
add you to these meetings. But I think it was
17:15
the week before last, we had our biggest turnout
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so far, which was 17 total participants, which
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was really, really awesome. And it's helped a
17:25
lot of people. uh so far and i don't expect to
17:28
grow i understand how important privacy is obviously
17:31
um but just what are some of the broader general
17:35
topics that come up at the meetings you mentioned
17:37
you had 17 people a couple meetings ago what
17:42
are some of the broader things that come up there
17:44
subject wise that if you brought them up here
17:46
somebody Who is struggling and either they know
17:50
or they don't know, it might recognize something
17:51
in themselves saying, can we talk? Yeah, we've
17:53
talked about X, Y and Z or situation, something,
17:56
whatever you can say that still protects people's
17:58
privacy. Of course, that's still on a broader
18:00
spectrum might help somebody else down an easier
18:05
path. Absolutely. We do treat these meetings
18:08
like closed anonymous meetings. So we do respect
18:11
the privacy. excuse me, and confidentiality of
18:15
all of the participants, but I can absolutely
18:18
give you a high -level overview of what a meeting
18:21
looks like. We basically just start out going
18:24
through the guidelines, quick about Collectors MD,
18:29
and things like it's a confidential and judgment
18:33
-free space. Participation is optional. You only
18:39
speak if you're comfortable. Listening can be
18:40
just as powerful. We appreciate honest and respectful
18:45
sharing. We try to push for only offering advice
18:49
when requested. We want to offer support but
18:53
not solutions unless someone asks for guidance.
18:56
We support. We don't fix. Our focus is on understanding,
18:59
not solving. And so we make sure that everybody
19:03
is on the same page when it comes to the guidelines.
19:06
Then we go through the recovery guide. We spend
19:08
about 10 minutes just walking through it. And
19:11
then we reserve the majority of the meeting for
19:14
our share and support. So that's an opportunity
19:16
for members to share anything they want, anything
19:19
they're comfortable with, whether that be a recent
19:22
experience or something that resonated with them
19:28
that they maybe saw on social media. or just
19:31
something super general. We also include a discussion
19:36
prompt each week so that if people come in and
19:40
they don't really know what to talk about, we
19:41
have this on screen so that it kind of gets people's
19:45
brain juices flowing. So for instance, this week,
19:49
the discussion prompt will be the stories we
19:51
tell ourselves, how justification keeps us stuck.
19:56
So we basically will explore topics like what
19:59
are some of the most common justifications you've
20:02
used to excuse compulsive spending in the hobby?
20:04
Have you ever convinced yourself something was
20:06
an investment or harmless fun when deep down
20:09
you knew it wasn't? How do justifications show
20:12
up in your language, habits, or thinking? Are
20:14
there specific narratives like I deserve this?
20:17
I'll sell this later. This is my last one. that
20:21
you catch yourself repeating, and what would
20:23
it look like to replace these stories with more
20:25
honest, supportive truths. And the objective
20:27
here is really just to explore how the stories
20:30
we tell ourselves can either fuel the cycle or
20:32
help break it. And by recognizing the mental
20:35
scripts we use to justify compulsive behavior,
20:37
we can begin to rewrite them and reclaim a more
20:40
intentional, grounded relationship with the hobby.
20:42
So again, that's just there for people to...
20:47
you know, use as a crutch if they want to focus
20:51
on a specific topic and they're not sure what
20:53
to talk about. But again, we are very reformed
20:57
in that we allow any and everybody to talk about
21:01
whatever they want, as long as they're being
21:04
respectful to others within the space and are
21:09
being honest and open -minded. Great. For those
21:14
of you who are listening right now, I have up
21:16
on the screen the link for the meetings. The
21:22
Google form that Alyx mentioned is here. If you
21:26
go to the website for Collectors MD, at the top
21:31
is a resources link, and it can take you to this
21:33
form, among other things. So, Alyx, in your experience,
21:38
what are some signs that people... can maybe
21:43
sense or recognize in themselves that might begin
21:47
to suggest, maybe I'm not in control of my hobby
21:51
experience as much as I think I am. And maybe
21:55
this experience is more in control of me. Yeah,
21:58
it's a great question. And it's actually a part
22:00
of the Collectors MD recovery guide. When we
22:05
have new members join, we will go through these
22:09
20 questions that again are adapted from Gamblers
22:12
Anonymous and tailored for compulsive spending
22:14
and collecting. And basically, if you answered
22:16
yes to any of these questions, it's an indication
22:19
that you're in the right place. You're not alone
22:22
and we're here for you. So I could go down that
22:24
list real quick if. Sure. Yeah. So basically,
22:29
actually, you know what? I have an abbreviated
22:32
version just because and I'll quickly caveat
22:35
this. We've had. so many people joining and we
22:39
try to keep these meetings within one hour that
22:41
reading this recovery guide ends up taking more
22:44
time than we'd like it to while it's extremely
22:47
important and it's the foundation for our recovery
22:50
we want to make sure that we allow as much time
22:53
as possible for everybody to get a chance to
22:56
share so this week i've actually been working
22:58
on uh an abbreviated version of the guide for
23:01
group use so it's basically just simplified for
23:04
clarity reflection and pacing uh and so i'll
23:06
just read uh the 20 questions from that version
23:08
um one do you hide how much you spent two do
23:13
you overspend often three have you sold things
23:15
to fund your hobby four have you lied about purchases
23:18
five do you check apps constantly six have you
23:22
missed work or plans due to collecting Seven,
23:25
do you get anxious when not buying? Eight, have
23:28
you gone into debt over your hobby? Nine, have
23:31
you broken promises to stop? 10, do you justify
23:34
everything as investments? 11, do you feel a
23:38
high when buying and regret after? 12, do you
23:41
avoid looking at your finances? 13, do you compare
23:44
your collection to others? 14, do you spend to
23:47
cope with emotions? 15, have you set limits and
23:50
broken them? 16, do you buy things you don't
23:53
actually want? 17, has your behavior strained
23:56
your relationships or health? 18, does your hobby
23:58
feel like pressure instead of joy? 19, have you
24:02
felt out of control? 20, do you worry you have
24:05
a problem? And again, if you've answered yes
24:07
to any of these questions, that's probably an
24:10
indicator that you might want to just take a
24:14
step back and reevaluate why you're collecting
24:18
in the first place. And that's all it is. It
24:20
doesn't necessarily mean that you have a problem.
24:22
or that you've been diagnosed with some addiction
24:25
or some psychological issue. It's more so just
24:28
being self -aware, taking personal inventory,
24:32
and making sure that you are collecting with
24:34
intention and not compulsion. I'm glad you brought
24:38
that up because as I was listening to that list
24:40
of 20 things, a couple of them I checked off
24:43
myself, namely checking apps too often and sometimes
24:52
feeling more stressed out by the hobby than getting
24:55
an enjoyment from it. But I think it's worth
24:58
reinforcing that just because somebody maybe
25:01
sensed one or two or three things in themselves
25:03
with the list, that doesn't necessarily mean
25:06
or trigger addiction. Right. But at the same
25:09
time, it might. And so it's worth, it's worth
25:14
thinking about. Have you had people come to you
25:17
in the last couple of months saying that either
25:20
the guy that you wrote, Or the appearances that
25:23
you've made on things that you've written, other
25:28
people's podcasts you've appeared on, in which
25:30
they have begun to recognize certain behaviors
25:33
in themselves? Yeah, absolutely. As a matter
25:38
of fact, I'd love to read an email I received
25:41
from, I obviously won't name their name, but
25:45
I received an email on Monday morning. It really
25:50
hit home for me just because it sort of reinforced
25:55
why I'm doing this, right? It made me feel validated
25:59
in that Collectors MD is actually making a difference.
26:02
So I'll just, I'll read this email. Again, it
26:05
came through actually 2 a .m. on Sunday. Hey,
26:08
found your... Hey, found your resources through
26:11
some YouTube channels. This is definitely hard
26:13
to talk about, as I'm sure many collectors feel
26:15
the same way, but I do think I have a dependency
26:18
on buying sports cards, not only as a coping
26:20
mechanism, but also fulfillment. I guess my issue
26:24
is I really do think I enjoy the hobby from a
26:26
collector's perspective, but also I like the
26:29
investment angle. The idea that I can buy these
26:31
awesome cards that I can enjoy, but will also
26:34
hold their value potentially over time. I think
26:36
I'm a smart buyer now, more so than I was a year
26:39
ago. I don't really prospect on young players
26:41
so much. So I'm not into the gambling aspect
26:43
of it as much, but it just gets me going emotionally
26:47
sometimes. And it's messed up because I feel
26:50
like this should be a fun thing to do, but it
26:52
becomes stressful and sometimes financially detrimental
26:54
to me. I'm not in any serious debt from it, but
26:58
I definitely noticed the cycle of dopamine rush
27:00
from getting a card I love to the come down and
27:02
then back into needing to make a purchase to
27:04
make any negative feelings go away. Just wanted
27:07
to share this with you. And it's comforting to
27:10
know that other collectors feel this way. Thanks.
27:14
Yeah, there's a lot there. Yeah. That was really
27:18
powerful for me, right? Because it's, again,
27:21
like people don't necessarily realize that they
27:25
are falling into these cycles, that they might
27:28
be overspending or overextending beyond their
27:30
means or doing something that might be financially
27:33
detrimental, as he said. But because Collectors MD
27:38
exists and because people are starting to recognize
27:41
it and it's, you know, popping up on people's
27:44
feeds and, you know, as I join more and more
27:47
of these podcasts, more people are just talking
27:50
about it. You know, it allows for a sense of
27:53
awareness to come into play. People take a step
27:59
back and self -reflect and ask themselves, hey,
28:02
do I have a problem? I don't want people to go
28:05
crazy and suddenly have this hypochondriac type
28:11
of reaction where like, I don't know if I have
28:16
a problem or not. Do I need to get help? Do I
28:19
need to start seeing a therapist? That's not
28:22
what this is about. It's just more so about,
28:24
again, just creating awareness and a space for
28:28
people to feel like and know that they are not
28:31
alone. And I actually just want to quickly mention
28:34
something really, really important. And this
28:37
is something that I had brought up earlier is
28:40
that I'm not a licensed therapist, a doctor,
28:43
a clinician, anything like that. I don't have
28:45
any experience in the medical field. But what
28:47
I do have is experience as an addict. Right.
28:53
I mentioned that I had a gambling addiction.
28:56
I mentioned that I had an addiction to collecting.
28:59
Those were. two areas that became really problematic
29:03
for me and my family um that that you know had
29:07
a negative impact on my life and so with that
29:11
i want to make sure that people understand that
29:14
Collectors MD is intended to be a peer support
29:18
group uh and you know we're here to provide Support
29:22
and resources for collectors who feel overwhelmed,
29:25
out of control, or financially strained by the
29:27
hobby. We want to raise awareness, promote healthy
29:30
habits, and advocate for responsible participation,
29:33
not to shame or to criticize collectors or breakers,
29:36
but again, just to provide a sense of comfort.
29:43
With that, we just announced a partnership as
29:48
of yesterday, Monday, June 2nd. where we have
29:52
partnered with a licensed mental health provider
29:55
called Birches Health. So going forward, if we
30:00
have an individual that needs professional help
30:05
beyond the peer support that we can offer, we
30:07
can refer them and direct them to Birches Health,
30:11
which is again a facility that focuses on problematic
30:15
gambling and behavioral addiction. So that's
30:19
really important. It was a huge milestone for
30:21
us. And again, it cements the fact that there's
30:26
a need for this. It provides validity and credibility
30:30
for Collectors MD in this space. And I'm really
30:33
excited to see where that partnership takes us.
30:36
For sure. Congratulations on that partnership.
30:39
Thank you. And I apologize if I missed this from
30:42
one of your previous appearances. Do you still
30:45
collect at all? Do you have an involvement in
30:49
the hobby beyond Collectors MD? Yes. So I think
30:52
this is really important. And this is something
30:54
that I think comes up quite a bit, right? Because
30:58
I mentioned BOGO breaks, which I'm not active
31:02
on. We don't break anymore. I'm not a breaker
31:04
at all anymore. We stopped or I stopped doing
31:07
that in, say, 2021. But I also have several other
31:12
handles, one for my sneaker page. one for my
31:16
cards. I haven't posted on either in quite some
31:20
time, but as you can see behind me, you know,
31:22
still have a few pairs of sneakers, still have
31:25
a handful of cards in my collection. And, you
31:30
know, the contradiction, I guess you could call
31:33
it, is kind of the whole point, right? That duality
31:37
is my story. The blurred line between being a
31:41
passionate collector and falling into compulsive
31:43
behavior, that isn't theoretical for me. It's
31:46
personal. I was deep in it. I love the chase,
31:50
the thrill of the rip, the community, the culture,
31:52
all of it. But I also know how easily that passion
31:56
can tip into something darker, into something
31:58
that affects your mental health, your finances,
32:00
your relationships. And I think that's the part
32:03
that will resonate with people because so many
32:06
of us are walking that tightrope, whether we
32:08
realize it or not. So when people ask how I can
32:11
be both, how I can be at the forefront of this
32:15
movement and also be involved in collecting,
32:18
how can I love the hobby and want to challenge
32:22
the hobby? the way it's operating. I tell them
32:24
that's exactly why I started Collectors MD, not
32:27
to cancel collecting, not to cancel the hobby,
32:30
but to make space for conversations that the
32:32
hobby doesn't always allow. Conversations about
32:35
accountability, intention, and support. I'm not
32:37
standing outside the problem shouting in, I'm
32:40
speaking from the middle of it, just trying to
32:42
light the path forward for anyone who's ever
32:44
felt that same pull. Okay, so there are two last
32:48
things, not last, there are two things I want
32:50
to get to before. Before we let you go, the last
32:54
thing is I definitely want to have to talk about
32:56
the industry and things that are in place that
33:00
make it pretty hard for people to navigate in
33:05
certain ways. But before we get to the industry,
33:06
I want to talk about a part of the site that
33:10
talks about the three MDs. And you are on. Denny,
33:16
Denny Kars, Denny Kars podcast talking about
33:18
the three MDs and said, you know, you mentioned
33:20
you're not a doctor, but MDs, it's sort of a
33:23
play on word and it's mental detox, money discipline
33:27
and meaningful decisions. Money discipline strategies.
33:34
I think we kind of understand what's there. Meaningful
33:37
decisions. For those of you who are listening
33:40
to this right now, I have a page on the screen
33:43
that. that lists these three MDs. And Alyx has
33:47
meaningful decisions as making decisions based
33:50
on your values, not hype or external pressure.
33:53
One is ask, is this bringing me peace or pushing
33:57
me deeper into compulsion? And then third point,
33:59
reflect on whether the purchase aligns with your
34:01
long -term vision. Okay, so we have money discipline
34:04
as one MD, meaningful decisions as another MD.
34:08
The one I want to spend a few minutes on is mental
34:11
detox practices. I think this is really interesting.
34:15
And, and this is what I thought of personally
34:17
with this. I've mentioned on this podcast and
34:20
others before that the person who really got
34:23
me into sports was my mom. She died like 20 years
34:26
ago. Right. But in, in the weeks and months after
34:31
she passed, I've not mentioned this part before
34:33
as we were like cleaning out. her clothes and
34:37
helping my dad organize all her thousands of
34:40
books to donate that sort of a thing. And as
34:42
he was going through finances, he realized that
34:44
she had left him with tens of thousands in debt
34:48
because she loved to she was she was she was
34:52
an addicted gambler. She would go to the casinos.
34:54
We knew that we didn't know the extent to what
34:57
she was doing there. And because she also handled
35:00
the finances, she was able to find a way to hide
35:03
it. Right. Right. And so over the last 20 years,
35:08
me, like others in the family, I've been a little
35:11
bit more cognizant of our own behavior. Like,
35:13
wait a minute, you know, sometimes addiction
35:14
can be in genetic or inherited or whatever. Right.
35:18
And think I'm okay for the most part, right?
35:22
But this mental detox part. is where I got stuck.
35:26
It's where I froze on. This idea of meaningful
35:30
consumption, does this serve or just distract
35:33
me? Declutter your space and mostly take a break
35:36
from apps, influencers, notification, or product
35:39
drops. I've never been into a break. I don't
35:44
collect sites. I don't care any of that, but
35:46
it's the app part of it. Since I really got into...
35:50
Back into the hobby, 2020, I guess now, during
35:54
COVID, coming up on five years. I was looking
35:57
back on the screen time component of my iPhone,
36:00
which keeps track of how much time you spend
36:02
online per day. That can be scary. It's scary.
36:06
And as much as I'm on now, compared to where
36:10
I was before I got back into the hobby, it has
36:12
nearly doubled. Sheesh. And it is those apps.
36:16
And my spending is under control. I don't have
36:19
a big collection. I kind of align with what I
36:23
want, but just the amount of mental bandwidth
36:26
that I give over to the hobby is insane. Right.
36:31
And in the meetings that you have and in the
36:34
people that you talk to, is this something that
36:37
you were seeing with people saying, it's like,
36:38
I just can't unplug from the hobby. Like, I just
36:42
can't like stop checking, checking, checking,
36:44
checking for cards or sometimes even just. I
36:48
think it was I forget who, but someone else said
36:50
it's like hobby doom scrolling where you're just
36:52
going through Instagram. You're just going and
36:54
going is how much do you see this sort of a thing?
36:56
Yeah, no, I mean, it's it's a huge part of the
37:01
cycle that we talk about. And that's why we've
37:03
implemented it into these three pillars. Mental
37:07
detox being the first. Right. And when we talk
37:10
about mental detox in the hobby, we're not talking
37:12
about. quitting or deleting everything forever.
37:15
We're just, we're talking about intentionally
37:17
clearing up space bandwidth physically, digitally,
37:22
and emotionally. So you can actually hear yourself
37:23
think again, right? The hobby, the hobby bombards
37:27
us with noise. There's new drops almost every
37:29
day. Now flash sales, influencer takes hot lists,
37:34
breaker height, and it doesn't stop. It's designed
37:37
not to the more overwhelmed you are, the easier
37:41
you are. to manipulate. That's how marketing
37:44
works, right? So the first tool we encourage
37:47
is mindful consumption. That means asking yourself,
37:50
is this serving me or is it distracting me? And,
37:54
you know, am I watching this break because I
37:57
enjoy it or because I'm restless, anxious, or
38:00
feeling that sense of FOMO, you know, into thinking
38:03
like I need to be a part of this or, you know,
38:06
there are going to be consequences, right? We
38:08
kind of like trick ourselves into thinking that.
38:11
Another powerful piece of mental detox is decluttering,
38:14
not just your shelf, but also your phone, your
38:18
feed, your algorithm on following accounts that
38:21
might trigger you to spend. Muting breakers who
38:25
never stop selling or never stop hitting you
38:27
up. You don't owe them your peace of mind, right?
38:31
We also recommend taking breaks. So intentional,
38:34
time -bound breaks from platforms, from marketplaces,
38:38
from group chats where it's always, about the
38:42
next chase. You'd be surprised how much clarity
38:44
shows up when that noise starts to die down.
38:47
Because here's the truth. You can't make intentional
38:50
decisions when you're overstimulated. You can't
38:53
tell what you actually want when you're being
38:56
told what to want 24 -7. So mental detox is about
39:00
creating space between you and the stimulus so
39:03
you can respond instead of react. It's not about
39:06
punishing yourself. It's about creating peace.
39:10
for yourself. We detox not because we hate the
39:14
hobby or want to exit the hobby or push it away,
39:18
but because we care enough to engage with it
39:21
on our own terms versus the terms of the manufacturers,
39:25
the breakers, and the platforms. All right. So
39:28
let's now turn to the industry. And I purposely
39:31
wanted to save this as the last part of the discussion
39:33
because it can go any number of ways. Sure. When
39:37
we talk about the industry, we talk about pick
39:40
your company, right? But there's Fanatics, there's
39:43
Whatnot, there's PSA, there's a million others.
39:46
No, there's dozens of others. What sort of mechanisms
39:52
within the industry and what they do, do you
39:56
see that makes... I'm trying to phrase this carefully.
40:05
What do you see within the industry that makes...
40:08
addiction of sports cards and all that comes
40:13
with it that makes it harder to break the cycle.
40:18
Yeah. So, you know, I mentioned the synergies
40:21
between breaking these, not just breaking, but
40:26
the platform experiences, the user flow, if you
40:29
will, and how it mirrors gambling to a T, right?
40:34
So the hobby. has become the wild west that's
40:39
what we always say you hear people saying that
40:40
all the time and so we are pushing for industry
40:44
level reforms not because we want to ruin the
40:47
fun but because fun without safeguards turns
40:52
into harm really really fast and i learned that
40:55
the hard way with with gambling right we're advocating
40:58
for basic very very basic very rudimentary consumer
41:02
protections that already exist in these other
41:04
industries with similar psychological mechanics
41:07
things like deposit limits. Okay. So people can
41:10
cap what they're spending before it starts to
41:12
spiral. They can put in their settings on Whatnot
41:16
or Fanatics that they're only allowed to deposit
41:19
like $500 a week, something like that. Self -exclusion
41:23
tools. So if someone knows they need a break,
41:25
they can opt out and actually stay out. So if
41:29
you constantly feel that itch, if you feel like
41:31
you're not going to be able to control yourself
41:33
later this evening. Once your partner goes to
41:36
bed and you're tossing and turning and you can't
41:39
fall asleep, you don't have to worry about falling
41:44
into that trap where you're going to pick up
41:48
the phone, mindlessly start joining breaks and
41:51
wake up the next morning feeling that sense of
41:54
regret. Transparency around odds, really, really
41:57
important. If you're selling a randomized product,
42:00
The buyer deserves to know what their chances
42:02
are, just like you would at a casino or in a
42:06
loot box. We see this a lot in gaming. We see
42:11
checklists. Sometimes we see pack odds for manufacturers
42:16
like Topps. But when it comes to repacks, when
42:19
it comes to this gray area, these products that
42:24
are produced by breakers, by third -party companies.
42:28
There's no transparency whatsoever. We don't
42:31
get to see any sort of odds and everything is
42:33
engineered for the consumer to lose. Right. The
42:36
house is always going to win. This is all just
42:40
sort of under the guise of of a hobby. Next,
42:45
we have standardized language and disclosure.
42:47
So no one's getting baited. No one's getting
42:50
bait and switched by words like guaranteed hits.
42:54
high roller box without understanding the real
42:57
value proposition. And this is especially critical
43:00
when it comes to live breaking, because the way
43:03
it's set up right now, again, it is just a free
43:06
for all. It's the Wild West. There's no regulation.
43:08
There's no third party oversight. There is no
43:11
enforcement of ethical practices, just companies
43:14
and creators cashing in on behaviors that if
43:17
this were gambling or even gaming would be heavily
43:20
regulated. Imagine this. Imagine if a casino
43:24
let you gamble with no age verification, no spending
43:27
limits, no player protections, and no posted
43:30
odds. That's exactly what's happening here, except
43:33
instead of chips. Sorry, and that was one of
43:36
my questions, and I'm so ignorant when it comes
43:38
to breaking. What I'm going to ask is, are there
43:41
age checks at Whatnot in Fanatics Breaks or whatever
43:44
it's even called? Do they check ages on those
43:45
sites? You know what? I'm not 100 % certain if
43:50
it's... uh a part of this i know you have to
43:54
put in your age but there's no way for them to
43:57
really determine if a kid is going on there and
44:01
lying about his you know birthday right it's
44:05
not like walking into a casino where they can
44:07
check your driver's license right it's it's completely
44:10
unregulated so you do definitely have to uh put
44:14
in your birthday when you sign up but i'm not
44:16
sure how rigid the verification process currently
44:21
is because, candidly, I signed up for my Fanatics
44:24
Live and Whatnot accounts years ago. But I'm
44:29
sure it's very, very simple for a 12 -year -old,
44:34
11 -year -old to download the app on mom's device
44:41
and start using mom's credit card to join breaks.
44:47
uh and something that's happening quite a bit
44:48
you see chargebacks and all sorts of crazy stories
44:52
um on reddit and instagram and so on um but what
44:58
i was getting at is that you know uh with with
45:01
breaking Rather than chips, you're buying teams
45:06
or repacks or instant rips. And while the hobby
45:10
hides behind terms like entertainment and community,
45:13
the mechanics don't lie. These are 100 % gambling
45:17
adjacent systems being marketed to consumers
45:20
of all ages with zero guardrails in place. So
45:24
reform doesn't necessarily mean like the end
45:27
of the hobby. It just means the beginning of
45:29
a safer one. That's all it is. It's just more
45:31
transparency. A space where collectors don't
45:35
feel like they're being exploited for profit,
45:37
but they're actually being empowered to participate
45:40
with clarity and intention. So it's about protecting
45:43
the people who make the hobby what it is, which
45:46
is the collectors. And it's just it's long overdue.
45:49
And frankly, I'm shocked as I've done my research
45:52
and I continue to advocate for this. It's it's
45:56
mind blowing to me that Fanatics and Whatnot.
46:00
and even the manufacturers Panini Topps Upper
46:04
Deck none of these companies have taken any accountability
46:07
rev at the very least uh you know raised a few
46:12
points here and there hey like this is this is
46:16
something we should probably tighten up this
46:19
is probably something or an area that we should
46:22
um you know create some some rules for it's just
46:27
they continue to add new features just make it
46:30
more enticing more um you know attractive to
46:38
people who have these tendencies to overextend
46:43
themselves to participate and that's the scary
46:45
part and i mentioned this to you before we came
46:48
on the live but Fanatics Live just announced
46:51
today or i'm sorry yesterday this new uh feature
46:55
called instant rips which is basically uh their
46:59
version of offering uh buybacks on repack so
47:05
you purchase uh you purchase a repack for 800
47:10
bucks you hit a 500 card they'll give you 90
47:13
of that on the spot you get your money back and
47:16
you re -roll i mean if that isn't if that doesn't
47:19
scream gambling I don't know what does right
47:22
so it's fine that they add these elements like
47:25
gambling isn't illegal gambling you know is a
47:29
form of entertainment for a lot of people that
47:32
if they can do it within their means and they
47:34
have self -control uh and they're not you know
47:37
overstepping or doing anything um as far as like
47:41
lying to their partners or spending this month's
47:45
mortgage on it like More power to you. Do your
47:49
thing. But there needs to be regulations in place,
47:53
just like they exist for gambling. It's remarkable
47:58
to me that something like this can be introduced
48:00
by a company as big and impactful and game -changing
48:09
as Fanatics, but still not have to create a sense
48:15
of rules. guardrails protections like it's it's
48:20
crazy to me that that that just doesn't exist
48:22
so one last thing i'll say is like when you're
48:25
watching uh a sports game and you see um an ad
48:32
for a casino or a sports book right at the bottom
48:35
of the spot commercial generally there's some
48:42
sort of um messaging around responsible gaming
48:47
responsible gambling yeah disclaimer if you or
48:51
you know somebody who has a problem call 1 -800
48:53
-GAMBLER that's a part of their corporate responsibility
48:56
right that's that's a part of the the rules you
48:59
want to uh you know play in this space you got
49:01
to follow the rules that have been set by the
49:03
uh governing body why doesn't that exist within
49:07
the hobby when there's so many synergies it's
49:10
mind -boggling to me that there isn't some sort
49:13
of gaming commission that that is over seeing
49:17
all of this it's literally just Fanatics Panini
49:20
Whatnot eBay and you know we're basically uh
49:26
marketing slaves to those higher powers with
49:31
with nobody kind of keeping an eye on any of
49:34
this to make sure that it's happening fairly
49:37
and um in such a way that protects the consumer.
49:42
Yeah. And I think it's worth noting that what
49:46
you, Alyx, and what Collectors MD is trying to
49:48
do is not to get rid of it. It's to make it more
49:52
responsible, more accountable. And I would urge
49:54
people, when you hear outside factors, other
49:58
people defending it, saying we don't need regulation
50:02
or this or this or that. It's entertainment.
50:04
It's fun. It's like, oh, someone enters a break
50:06
because they can't get all the Oakland Raider
50:08
cards that they want. And this is how they get
50:10
it. Like, sure. I think it's worth asking what
50:15
they have to gain and what their incentive is
50:18
to not want to have regulation on it. And when
50:22
you dig deeper into what their motivations are
50:25
and what they get out of using you, you begin
50:31
to understand why they. why they are operating
50:33
that the way that they are. Now, we are starting
50:36
to run out of time here a little bit. So I think,
50:39
Alyx, my last question for you would be, what
50:43
would you say to someone or what would you make
50:46
open to someone who is feeling like maybe they're
50:51
a bit out of control or just worried about their
50:55
own behavior? What can their next steps be to
50:59
take back some of that control? Yeah, so what
51:02
I don't want to do is scare anybody into thinking
51:05
that they might have a problem. I personally,
51:09
you know, feel a sense of, what's the word, like
51:16
obligation, right? Because I have experienced
51:21
both sides. I know what it's like to chase the
51:24
high, the rush of a big pull, the late night
51:27
breaks, the dopamine hits that feel like dull.
51:30
never come fast enough. I've experienced the
51:32
spiral, the financial strain, the shame, the
51:36
mental toll. I've seen how something that starts
51:38
as a hobby can morph into something far, far
51:41
more dangerous. But I've also spent years in
51:44
this space, not just as a collector, but a student
51:47
of it. I understand the mechanics, the culture,
51:49
the psychology behind the platforms and the products.
51:52
I know what's broken and I know where the hope
51:54
lives. So that's why Collectors MD exists. Not
51:58
because I'm against the hobby. I'm not. I love
52:01
the hobby. I truly do. I'm passionate about the
52:04
hobby. But it's because I believe in its potential
52:08
to be something healthier, more sustainable,
52:11
and more honest. I feel like I bring a rare combination
52:14
of lived experience with addiction, deep industry
52:18
knowledge, and a genuine love for collecting.
52:20
So again, I really want to push the point. home
52:25
that I'm not here to tear it down. I'm here to
52:27
help build a better way forward for myself and
52:30
for everyone else who's ever felt like they've
52:32
lost control, but still love the card. So if
52:35
you feel that way, if you feel like you are on
52:39
a slippery slope and are starting to go down
52:42
that path where you're overspending beyond your
52:45
means, you're hiding packages, you're hiding
52:48
finances, then Collectors MD is here for you.
52:54
know that you are not alone and it's okay. And
52:57
you don't have to give up the hobby. You don't
52:59
have to quit. There are layers to it. Some people
53:02
might have to. Some people might have to take
53:04
a long break and then come back to it with a
53:08
different mindset. But we can identify that together.
53:12
We can figure that out. And again, with the help
53:15
of Birches Health, there are even more professional
53:17
tools and resources to identify those things.
53:22
So, you know, if you want to learn more about
53:24
Collectors MD, you can go to our website, Collectors MD
53:27
.com. You can check us out on social. We're on
53:30
Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, Facebook, Mantle,
53:34
Reddit, a few others. But we want to be wherever
53:40
the consumer is consuming their content. And
53:44
we want to make sure that we're providing a space
53:46
for people to feel that sense of safety, that
53:50
sense of comfort that they've been longing for
53:54
far too long. Alyx Ruffin, thank you for taking
53:59
the initiative to create Collectors MD. Thank
54:02
you for your leadership on this issue. Thank
54:05
you for sharing your story. And I hope that we're
54:07
able to talk again sometime soon. Dave, thank
54:10
you so much for having me, man. It was a pleasure
54:12
chatting with you. And thank you for your support.
54:16
It means the world. And looking forward to keeping
54:20
in touch and seeing where this thing goes. All
54:22
right, man. Take care. All righty.