Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / The Week That Was - 12th August 2022

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The Week That Was - 12th August 2022 · 360 with Katie Woolf

0:00
Speaker 1: It is time for the Week that was, and I
0:01
Speaker 1: am pleased to say that.
0:02
Speaker 2: Joining me this morning Jared Mayley, the Deputy Opposition leader,
0:05
Speaker 2: good morning to you.
0:06
Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, Good morning listeners.
0:08
Speaker 2: We've got Keysier Puric over there, the independent member for Goda,
0:11
Speaker 2: Good morning to you.
0:12
Speaker 4: Good morning Katy, Good morning to all those bush people
0:14
Speaker 4: out there.
0:14
Speaker 1: And we have got Laura Friday, Lauren.
0:16
Speaker 2: Moss, who is the Minister for Various Portfolios. Good morning
0:19
Speaker 2: to you this morning.
0:20
Speaker 5: Laura, good morning, good morning to everyone listening.
0:22
Speaker 2: And he's made his return. Matt Cunninger Man wanting I'm
0:29
Speaker 2: back in the studio now. Look, I will start the
0:32
Speaker 2: show with the very sad news that we learned yesterday
0:36
Speaker 2: that well Robin Lanley was due to be on the
0:38
Speaker 2: show this week. She was going to be joining us
0:40
Speaker 2: in the studio for the Week that was, But as
0:42
Speaker 2: we all know, in incredibly sad news, her and her
0:46
Speaker 2: husband Craig, and their daughter Alice have lost Harry, her
0:50
Speaker 2: twenty three year old son, who was holidaying in Greece
0:53
Speaker 2: with friends from Alice Springs when he was involved in
0:56
Speaker 2: a terrible accident. I know that the whole community of
0:59
Speaker 2: Alice Springs right now is really really hurting. I said
1:03
Speaker 2: it yesterday on the show, and I think that for
1:05
Speaker 2: all of us that sit in here on a Friday morning,
1:08
Speaker 2: you know, we fight, We certainly get pretty animated in
1:11
Speaker 2: here sometimes, but everybody's got a lot of respect for
1:13
Speaker 2: each other. It doesn't matter what side of the political
1:16
Speaker 2: spectrum you sit on. We've all got a lot of
1:18
Speaker 2: respect for each other. And I've got a lot of
1:20
Speaker 2: respect for Robin. I don't always agree with what she's
1:22
Speaker 2: got to say, but I know that she's a bloody
1:24
Speaker 2: good mum and Craig's a bloody good dad, and my
1:28
Speaker 2: heart goes out to them, and I know that everybody
1:30
Speaker 2: in this studio feels exactly the same.
1:33
Speaker 6: Yeah, Katie.
1:33
Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's just there aren't really any words,
1:36
Speaker 5: are they really. It's probably the worst thing you could imagine,
1:39
Speaker 5: And so our hearts definitely go out to Robin and
1:43
Speaker 5: Craig and Alice, and you know, I know Natasha's reached
1:46
Speaker 5: out to Robin as well. We're just I think we're
1:48
Speaker 5: all pretty heartbroken for her, really, and yeah, it's just
1:53
Speaker 5: really awful, niece.
1:54
Speaker 6: Yeah, and to be so far away.
1:55
Speaker 4: That's the other thing I think you know, like family
1:58
Speaker 4: is family, doesn't matter what they do in their work profession.
2:02
Speaker 4: And you know how we work with Robin and Craig
2:04
Speaker 4: a hubby, but you know, when you lose a family member,
2:06
Speaker 4: it's just a hole that will never close over.
2:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the territory, we haven't got that many people
2:11
Speaker 3: up here really, and people know someone but have an
2:12
Speaker 3: extended family, and it just feels that Robin must be guarded.
2:16
Speaker 3: I feel very I've got a young family, and I
2:17
Speaker 3: could just imagine if one of my daughters away on
2:20
Speaker 3: my son to just be terrible, so the young I
2:23
Speaker 3: feel for her.
2:23
Speaker 4: He'd have his cohort of friends, like he'd have all
2:25
Speaker 4: his mates from primary school and high school. And if
2:27
Speaker 4: you went to UTI, I don't know, you know. So yes,
2:30
Speaker 4: there's the immediate family family number one, but he's got
2:32
Speaker 4: his other families, you know. So all those other families
2:34
Speaker 4: associated with Robin and Fregan Alys, they're all hurting too.
2:38
Speaker 7: Point four two K.
2:40
Speaker 8: And we have our disagreements among everyone who works in
2:43
Speaker 8: politics in the media, but when something like this happens,
2:47
Speaker 8: I just think it puts all of that into perspective.
2:49
Speaker 8: And you know, I think a lot of people are hurting,
2:51
Speaker 8: and you know they're really thinking of Robin and her
2:54
Speaker 8: family at the moment.
2:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, without a doubt, we must certainly are.
2:58
Speaker 2: Now let's get into this of the week and in
3:01
Speaker 2: what is incredibly you know, I guess, interesting.
3:06
Speaker 1: And breaking news this morning.
3:07
Speaker 2: We know that the Northern Territory Police Association have revealed
3:12
Speaker 2: initial survey results of the long awaited survey into the
3:16
Speaker 2: confidence of the Northern Territory Police Commissioner Jamie Chalker, amongst
3:20
Speaker 2: other things. Now I'll take you through some of these numbers.
3:24
Speaker 2: Seventy nine point nine percent of respondents said that they
3:28
Speaker 2: do not have confidence in the Police Commissioner, mister Jamie Chalker.
3:32
Speaker 2: Ninety two point six percent of respondents said they do
3:36
Speaker 2: not think that there are enough police in the Northern
3:38
Speaker 2: Territory to do what's being asked of them. Seventy nine
3:42
Speaker 2: point four percent of respondents rated current morale in the
3:46
Speaker 2: Northern Territory Police Force as low or very low, and
3:50
Speaker 2: eighty seven point nine percent of respondents said that they
3:53
Speaker 2: were dissatisfied or very dissatisfied with the current pay freeze
3:57
Speaker 2: offer from the Commissioner and Governor. These results are damning.
4:03
Speaker 2: I don't know how.
4:06
Speaker 1: They're going to go moving forward.
4:08
Speaker 2: I mean, you've got ninety two percent of the police
4:11
Speaker 2: force saying that they don't think that there are enough
4:13
Speaker 2: of them to do the job that they've been asked
4:15
Speaker 2: to do. And you've got seventy nine percent of respondents
4:19
Speaker 2: saying that they don't have confidence in the police commissioner
4:22
Speaker 2: in their boss. Now, I want to make it really
4:24
Speaker 2: clear as well that the Police Association represents around ninety
4:30
Speaker 2: nine percent I believe of the police force. So this
4:34
Speaker 2: isn't like some of the other union groups where you
4:38
Speaker 2: maybe don't have such a big take up of that membership.
4:41
Speaker 2: In this case, you are talking about a high membership.
4:44
Speaker 2: All up one and forty four members took part in
4:48
Speaker 2: that survey. Now, I've got to tell you, when we
4:50
Speaker 2: do a survey to find out how we're rating on radio,
4:52
Speaker 2: there's only a thousand people that take part in that.
4:54
Speaker 2: We certainly know, you know, the sentiment of the community.
4:58
Speaker 2: If this doesn't give you a snapshot of the sentiment
5:01
Speaker 2: of the police force and nothing else is going to well, it's.
5:04
Speaker 8: One forty four members, Katie, out of a total of
5:07
Speaker 8: one thy six hundred and a who are eligible to participate.
5:10
Speaker 7: So I think that gives you an indication.
5:12
Speaker 8: And the Police Association saying that that's the highest general
5:16
Speaker 8: survey results ever received by the NTPA, second only to
5:20
Speaker 8: the payballot in twenty seventeen, so you're right, they are
5:23
Speaker 8: extraordinary numbers. Jamie Chalker walked into. I don't think as
5:29
Speaker 8: a new police commissioner you could walk into a more
5:31
Speaker 8: difficult set of circumstances than he confronted when he started
5:34
Speaker 8: in that job. He started the job two days after
5:38
Speaker 8: Constable Zachary Rolf had shot dead Combe and Joe Walker
5:40
Speaker 8: during that botched arrest attempt in Yundo Moo, and two
5:43
Speaker 8: days before Consortable Rolp was charged with murder, and three
5:47
Speaker 8: or four months before the world was hit with this
5:51
Speaker 8: pandemic and police were stretched to every corner of the
5:55
Speaker 8: Northern territory. So I think you need to look at,
5:58
Speaker 8: you know, those as the driving factors. But I think
6:01
Speaker 8: the Rolf matter in particular, that has caused a great
6:05
Speaker 8: deal of angst amongst rank and file police officers.
6:09
Speaker 7: Now you know whether that's right or wrong, I don't know.
6:12
Speaker 7: That's the perception.
6:13
Speaker 8: That is the perception, And the police Commissioner even said this.
6:16
Speaker 8: I went and watched back the press conference he did
6:20
Speaker 8: a week or so after Constable Rolf was found not guilty,
6:23
Speaker 8: and he said one of the unfortunate things was that
6:25
Speaker 8: certainly Consortable Rolf had the perception that he wasn't treated
6:29
Speaker 8: fairly in the decision to charge him with murder. Now
6:32
Speaker 8: there's an ICAC investigation into those events at the moment,
6:36
Speaker 8: and I think one of the most concerning things that
6:38
Speaker 8: came out following the trial was that there were contemporaneous
6:41
Speaker 8: notes from several detectives who were working on that case
6:46
Speaker 8: who were saying, hang on, not hold up, we don't
6:49
Speaker 8: have enough evidence here to place murder charge. And there
6:52
Speaker 8: was certainly a belief that there was a direction from
6:56
Speaker 8: people higher up to say, no, we want you to
6:58
Speaker 8: go and charge him, and that there certainly a lot
7:00
Speaker 8: of people in the Northern Territory Police Force who don't
7:02
Speaker 8: believe that that is the proper process that should have
7:05
Speaker 8: been followed. Now the IKAK will no doubt look into
7:08
Speaker 8: this and get to the bottom of exactly what happened there.
7:10
Speaker 8: But I think that whole affair certainly has had a
7:15
Speaker 8: major contribution to those numbers you're seeing, and that's.
7:17
Speaker 3: Absolutely you do think it raises a few things, just
7:20
Speaker 3: a morale or the police must be terrible working in
7:22
Speaker 3: a situation. We've got such a large number and they
7:24
Speaker 3: do a great job. You know, they're out there if
7:25
Speaker 3: you call them, and they come around the best they can.
7:28
Speaker 3: And it just really I really feel for the morale
7:30
Speaker 3: the police. I might know that my dad was a policeman.
7:32
Speaker 3: I grew up in a police family and I know
7:35
Speaker 3: from growing up and what it's like and how close
7:37
Speaker 3: they'll work together and they really rely on each other.
7:39
Speaker 3: And it just really really shows that the Labor government
7:42
Speaker 3: have lost a ball. They've been in power for six years.
7:44
Speaker 3: The colp of Call for at least two inquiries in
7:46
Speaker 3: relation to this. This hasn't just come up and we
7:48
Speaker 3: wake up today and go there's a problem with the police.
7:50
Speaker 3: This has gone worse and worse over a number of
7:52
Speaker 3: years and it just really shows that the former police
7:55
Speaker 3: medicine or Col Madison and her advisor lost it, lost
7:58
Speaker 3: a plot, really left it to the police to deal
8:00
Speaker 3: with and now we're in a terrible situation and territory
8:04
Speaker 3: and do aren't out there can look after.
8:05
Speaker 2: Well and look I think for probably the last year
8:07
Speaker 2: there's been a lot of commentary about, you know, about
8:10
Speaker 2: Jamie Chalker as the Police Commissioner, a lot of you know,
8:13
Speaker 2: a lot of commentary about the way that various different
8:15
Speaker 2: things have been managed or been handled. But by far
8:19
Speaker 2: and large, you know, one of the things that we
8:21
Speaker 2: have been hearing from the Association and particularly Paul McHugh
8:24
Speaker 2: over recent weeks and months is that, you know, the
8:27
Speaker 2: rank and file needed to be asked these questions and
8:29
Speaker 2: we needed to get a better understanding from the rank
8:32
Speaker 2: and file as to exactly how they are feeling. Now
8:35
Speaker 2: what's going to be incredibly interesting is to see the
8:38
Speaker 2: way in which these results are going to be utilized.
8:41
Speaker 2: I'm of the understanding as well that there is you know,
8:45
Speaker 2: it wasn't just to tick the box kind of survey.
8:47
Speaker 2: It's like you're given the opportunity to also provide commentary
8:51
Speaker 2: around why you may feel a certain way when it
8:54
Speaker 2: comes to the answers that you are giving.
8:57
Speaker 1: But you know, to have that huge a number of.
9:00
Speaker 2: The force to not feel as though they've got confidence
9:03
Speaker 2: in the police commissioner is quite unbelievable.
9:06
Speaker 8: The key thing here, Katie, because the previous comments from
9:09
Speaker 8: both the police commissioner, and I think you had the
9:12
Speaker 8: Deputy Commissioner, Michael Murphy and here making comment about this
9:15
Speaker 8: was that they believed it was a small number of
9:18
Speaker 8: very vocal people. I think this survey shows that it's
9:21
Speaker 8: a large number of vocal, very vocal people.
9:25
Speaker 6: It does.
9:26
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean the people who are listening to
9:29
Speaker 4: this will know that when you're doing surveys, you know,
9:31
Speaker 4: you look for you look at the methodology, and then
9:33
Speaker 4: like you said, you look at the percentages of returns.
9:36
Speaker 4: And I'm sure within that survey, if you've said they've
9:38
Speaker 4: done commentary, there will be commentary to specific areas, whether
9:42
Speaker 4: it be well that's my understanding, the training, whether it
9:45
Speaker 4: will be infrastructure, whether it were the vehicles, whether it
9:48
Speaker 4: be the rostering. I mean, I know one particular gentleman
9:51
Speaker 4: who joined the military late, joined the military, joined the
9:54
Speaker 4: police late in his life. He'd come out of the
9:56
Speaker 4: army and he was going to be one of those
9:58
Speaker 4: people that was very good. He stayed a year thereabouts
10:02
Speaker 4: because they kept digging him around with rosters in Darwin
10:05
Speaker 4: and they were going to send him here and they're
10:07
Speaker 4: going to send him there. So in the end he
10:08
Speaker 4: just said, I'm not going to put up with this rubbish.
10:11
Speaker 4: And that's just one teeny little example. And he since
10:13
Speaker 4: left the police force. So it's fine to have people
10:16
Speaker 4: wanting to come into the police force. And I know
10:18
Speaker 4: there's a squad soon to graduate, but it's all those
10:21
Speaker 4: other commentaries, you know, the one thing, for example, have
10:24
Speaker 4: they split it down to get the commentary from female officers?
10:27
Speaker 3: Now?
10:27
Speaker 4: I know there are no senior female officers within the
10:30
Speaker 4: executive or the next level down there used to be
10:33
Speaker 4: And for whatever reason and feedback I get from women
10:37
Speaker 4: who are in the police force now or who are
10:39
Speaker 4: ex police officers, there was a perception a concerted effort
10:44
Speaker 4: to move women out. Now, whether that's going to come
10:47
Speaker 4: through in some of the commentary, I don't know.
10:49
Speaker 6: But there are a.
10:49
Speaker 8: Lot of women who held senior roles in the Northern
10:51
Speaker 8: Territory Police Force that we know of over past few years.
10:54
Speaker 8: And someone and you think of the caliber of some
10:58
Speaker 8: of those police you're talking about, calling Gwin, Jeanette Kerr,
11:01
Speaker 8: narel Bia. I mean there's three, just off the top
11:03
Speaker 8: of my head, very senior Northern Territory police who've left
11:06
Speaker 8: the police force over the now. Some of those certainly
11:10
Speaker 8: Colleen Gwynn and Janet Kerr. That happened before Jamie Chalker's appointment.
11:14
Speaker 8: But I think you're touching on a pretty well.
11:16
Speaker 2: I mean, you would have to think, and Lauren, I'm
11:18
Speaker 2: very keen to find out from you this morning. I
11:20
Speaker 2: mean you would have to think that the government is
11:22
Speaker 2: literally holding crisis talks this morning. I would you would
11:25
Speaker 2: have to think that the police force are holding crisis
11:28
Speaker 2: talks this morning. I mean, to have a police force,
11:31
Speaker 2: we're talking about the people who who are doing so
11:36
Speaker 2: much in the Northern Territory. They're relied on every single
11:40
Speaker 2: day to do so much to fight crime, to try
11:43
Speaker 2: and bring down the rate of domestic violence, to try
11:46
Speaker 2: and keep kids off the street. You know, there's to
11:49
Speaker 2: manage drunks around the place. And they're saying that they've
11:52
Speaker 2: got sort of not enough resources or not enough of
11:55
Speaker 2: them to do their jobs, and they don't have confidence
11:58
Speaker 2: in their leader.
11:59
Speaker 1: Are there christ Talk's being helped.
12:01
Speaker 5: Look obviously in terms of the survey results, they came
12:04
Speaker 5: out not long ago this morning, you know, before I
12:08
Speaker 5: came in here, and I know that Kate Warden and
12:12
Speaker 5: US as a government will be taking the survey results
12:15
Speaker 5: exceptionally seriously, So it is a big return.
12:18
Speaker 3: It is a lot of feedback.
12:20
Speaker 1: Jared and I've literally been really contribute, but.
12:25
Speaker 5: Look, you know, it is a big return on that survey.
12:28
Speaker 5: It's something that we need to listen to, and we
12:31
Speaker 5: do take their concerns exceptionally seriously. And I know that
12:34
Speaker 5: Kate will be making sure that she's meeting with the NTPA,
12:37
Speaker 5: and they've obviously got a conference coming up over the
12:40
Speaker 5: next week or so, so we certainly won't hide away
12:43
Speaker 5: from those those issues. I think Matt hit the nail
12:46
Speaker 5: on the head around some of the complexities of the
12:48
Speaker 5: last couple of years. And you know, the Commissioner has
12:50
Speaker 5: got an incredibly difficult job. The last two years I
12:53
Speaker 5: think have been exceptionally complex in terms of what he
12:57
Speaker 5: has been dealing with since he became commission But I
13:01
Speaker 5: think you also, you know, talk about, you know, what
13:04
Speaker 5: we expect police to do and the complexities of the
13:06
Speaker 5: issues they're dealing with at the moment, and I think
13:08
Speaker 5: that's a really important conversation as well. Jeanette Kurz down
13:12
Speaker 5: there in Alice Springs at the moment, she works in
13:14
Speaker 5: a very senior role in territory families and she's actually
13:17
Speaker 5: offline from other jobs at the moment to work on
13:22
Speaker 5: a public social order plan down there across agencies in
13:27
Speaker 5: Alice Springs. So I think the other part of this
13:30
Speaker 5: is we often go to police as the first porter
13:32
Speaker 5: call on complex issues that actually require a non police response,
13:36
Speaker 5: and I do think there's some areas where we can
13:39
Speaker 5: lift effort there. And that's certainly what we're talking about
13:42
Speaker 5: as a government, is how we can make sure that
13:44
Speaker 5: it's not just falling to police all the time to
13:46
Speaker 5: deal with issues that really shouldn't be escalating to that
13:50
Speaker 5: point and then it could be another agency.
13:51
Speaker 2: And that's definitely a point I think that is, you know,
13:54
Speaker 2: well worth making. But look, the other point that I
13:56
Speaker 2: think is well worth making is, you know, the headline
13:59
Speaker 2: today is certainly going to be the fact that seventy
14:01
Speaker 2: nine point seven percent of respondents don't have confidence in
14:04
Speaker 2: the Northern Territory Police Commissioner.
14:06
Speaker 4: And Katie, if that was a chief executive of any
14:09
Speaker 4: other organization, whether it be in the public sector or
14:12
Speaker 4: the private sector, if your workforce has no confidence in you,
14:16
Speaker 4: I would think that your position has become untenable. I mean,
14:19
Speaker 4: if you look at it from and not that I'm
14:21
Speaker 4: a military person, but what that survey tells me is
14:25
Speaker 4: those officers across the charity are not prepared to go
14:28
Speaker 4: behind their chief into battle. And that's a serious problem
14:31
Speaker 4: for us as a territory, but also for the government.
14:34
Speaker 2: I mean, if he stays in the role, though, doesn't
14:37
Speaker 2: it keep a dark cloud over the police force at
14:42
Speaker 2: this point?
14:42
Speaker 6: Well, look, the survey results are what they are.
14:45
Speaker 4: The officers, the rank and file, at whatever levels wherever
14:48
Speaker 4: they are in the Northern Territory, huge numbers of them,
14:50
Speaker 4: over a thousand police officers have taken the time and
14:53
Speaker 4: trouble to put pen to paper. Now, I've found in
14:56
Speaker 4: my life and my jobs, if people take the time
14:59
Speaker 4: and trouble to put pen to paper and write down something,
15:02
Speaker 4: they are serious. So pay attention and that's what the
15:05
Speaker 4: government's got to do. These officers out there, it's so
15:09
Speaker 4: given that they do a good job. They do the
15:10
Speaker 4: best job they can every day. Those officers out there
15:13
Speaker 4: do not like their commissioner and they are very unhappy
15:16
Speaker 4: and that's not good for the police force across the territory.
15:19
Speaker 2: I mean, is it a point here or is it
15:21
Speaker 2: a situation here? As well, where you know the government
15:24
Speaker 2: has been quite resistant. I guess there is that sentiment
15:26
Speaker 2: around the community as well, where you know the government,
15:29
Speaker 2: even the association to some degree has been quite resistant
15:32
Speaker 2: to sort of you know, to say that the force
15:35
Speaker 2: doesn't have confidence in the Police commissioner. And now, I mean,
15:39
Speaker 2: these results make it so incredibly clear that the rank
15:44
Speaker 2: and file.
15:44
Speaker 3: Don't and k like I said, we need u to
15:46
Speaker 3: wake up this warning with these figures. This has been
15:47
Speaker 3: on the wall for a while. And I know that
15:49
Speaker 3: Leah asks in estimates, you know what the plan is
15:52
Speaker 3: in relation to, you know, getting the police back on track,
15:54
Speaker 3: and Labor couldn't come up with a plan. And I
15:56
Speaker 3: just heard in the minister to say that we're going
15:57
Speaker 3: to do a plan, but ultimately it seems to be
15:59
Speaker 3: as all going to be a plan. But we've known
16:01
Speaker 3: this for a while. The charity needs action right now
16:04
Speaker 3: because the forallat from this is crimes going through the roof.
16:07
Speaker 3: People aren't feeling safe in their own homes. There's breakings
16:10
Speaker 3: all over the place, people are getting salted and stabbed
16:12
Speaker 3: in the main streets. It just really comes back to
16:15
Speaker 3: it's time for action. Something needs to happen and in
16:18
Speaker 3: that space, it's not just a plan another plan here
16:21
Speaker 3: in another plane. We need some actually, we need to
16:22
Speaker 3: stop it. People aren't feeling safe.
16:24
Speaker 5: There has been lots in place for a long time,
16:26
Speaker 5: I think, and Natasha Files said this when she became
16:31
Speaker 5: Chief Minister. We know we need to have another look
16:33
Speaker 5: at what we needed to do differently, and that's what
16:36
Speaker 5: we're doing. And you know, say what you like, Jared.
16:39
Speaker 5: We we've invested a lot. We've invested a lot in police,
16:43
Speaker 5: We've got record investment in police, and we've got a
16:46
Speaker 5: whole range of other programs in place. But obviously there
16:49
Speaker 5: are some areas where we need to do things differently,
16:52
Speaker 5: and that's what doing things like having Jeanette Curve down there,
16:56
Speaker 5: having a look at how we can do things better.
16:59
Speaker 5: I think that's really important and I'm looking forward to
17:01
Speaker 5: us taking what we learn from that and doing it,
17:04
Speaker 5: you know here in Darwin, and looking at how we
17:06
Speaker 5: can replicate that. But you know, I'm not going to
17:09
Speaker 5: take the criticism that we shouldn't be looking at how
17:12
Speaker 5: we can do things better. And it doesn't mean that
17:14
Speaker 5: we haven't been working incredibly hard to deal with the
17:18
Speaker 5: very complex issues across the Northern Territory because we have
17:21
Speaker 5: no You can't polish your way out of a lot
17:23
Speaker 5: of these.
17:23
Speaker 3: Issues you record.
17:26
Speaker 2: Because one point that I do want to make is,
17:29
Speaker 2: you know this one about their ninety two point six
17:31
Speaker 2: percent of respondents saying that they don't think there are
17:33
Speaker 2: enough police in the Northern Territory to do what's being
17:36
Speaker 2: asked of them.
17:37
Speaker 1: I think this is a really.
17:38
Speaker 2: Important point to make because it goes to the heart
17:41
Speaker 2: of you know, what we hear very often sort of
17:43
Speaker 2: sitting in here on the phone lines, when I hear
17:46
Speaker 2: from businesses who've been broken into, you know, you hear
17:48
Speaker 2: from from individuals who who've had their car style and
17:52
Speaker 2: wait times, and you know, even when you talk to
17:56
Speaker 2: you know, businesses that have spoken to us about anti
17:58
Speaker 2: social behavior and the lord mayor calling for more police
18:03
Speaker 2: on the beat. Now, I'm certainly not an expert in
18:05
Speaker 2: this in this space, so I'm not going to profess
18:07
Speaker 2: to know more than what the Police Commissioner does or
18:09
Speaker 2: more than what the Northern Territory Police do that are.
18:11
Speaker 1: Working on the ground.
18:12
Speaker 2: But it goes to the heart of what the community
18:15
Speaker 2: are saying at the moment that they don't feel as
18:18
Speaker 2: though you know there are enough police on the.
18:22
Speaker 4: Beat and if that's if that's their perception, that's their reality.
18:26
Speaker 2: Well then to hear it from the actual police, I
18:28
Speaker 2: think is what's an incredibly important pole thing is.
18:31
Speaker 8: That that goes back into what we're seeing in the
18:32
Speaker 8: results of the survey, and I think probably one of
18:34
Speaker 8: the most concerning things over the past couple of years
18:37
Speaker 8: has been the high attrition rate of Northern Territory police officers,
18:41
Speaker 8: and I think that's what's making it so difficult for
18:43
Speaker 8: the government because they can go on recruitment drives, which
18:46
Speaker 8: they're doing, but they're just not hanging on to.
18:50
Speaker 7: The people who are leaving.
18:51
Speaker 8: That's why the morale issue that you see come up
18:54
Speaker 8: in this survey is so important because that low morale
18:59
Speaker 8: is seeing police officers leave the Northern Territory Police Force
19:02
Speaker 8: and go into stay.
19:03
Speaker 3: My example, experience the experienced police officer, you know, the
19:08
Speaker 3: bloke who's been on all the lady's been on the
19:10
Speaker 3: beat for twenty years. You know, I knows how to
19:12
Speaker 3: handle people. And you get some new person who's done
19:14
Speaker 3: the training, but you need a bit more experience to
19:16
Speaker 3: be able to still be an effective police officer.
19:18
Speaker 4: I believe any I mean, I mean, it's my drummer
19:21
Speaker 4: beat all the time. You know, Like taking the school
19:24
Speaker 4: based constables out of schools and putting auxiliaries in was
19:27
Speaker 4: never a good move and I will continue to say that,
19:30
Speaker 4: and it was a wrong decision by the police commissioner
19:33
Speaker 4: to me me, we're flatat even hanging on to the auxiliary.
19:36
Speaker 4: Now it's a big school like Sanderson, you know, and
19:39
Speaker 4: we need those constables who want to actually want to
19:42
Speaker 4: be in there to work with youth.
19:44
Speaker 7: You know.
19:44
Speaker 4: So there's that example, and you know, and the fact
19:47
Speaker 4: that I know that at one stage, I think it
19:49
Speaker 4: might have been a year ago, the police commissioner said,
19:51
Speaker 4: you know, the town based people.
19:52
Speaker 6: Would have to go out Bush.
19:53
Speaker 4: Now, that's not realistic when you've got a child or
19:56
Speaker 4: children in your family who are right at that critical
19:58
Speaker 4: age of fourteen fifteen in high school to say you've
20:00
Speaker 4: got to go live at Marin Bois. It might be
20:02
Speaker 4: okay when they're little tackers, you know, they can move
20:04
Speaker 4: around primary schools quite easily, but you know, to do that,
20:07
Speaker 4: that was just that was just not a good decision.
20:09
Speaker 6: It was poor managed.
20:10
Speaker 8: I think that's an important point. But because it'll be
20:13
Speaker 8: interesting to see that comes out in the comments. But
20:15
Speaker 8: I know speaking to someone who left the police force
20:17
Speaker 8: during the twelve months, and he said the reason was
20:20
Speaker 8: and it wasn't that he had to go Bush.
20:22
Speaker 7: He just knew he wasn't going to get a promotion.
20:24
Speaker 6: He didn't.
20:26
Speaker 4: And I think that's rather than asked, is rather make
20:28
Speaker 4: it incentive. You know, like we know you get more
20:31
Speaker 4: out of people by giving them honey than vinegar. So
20:34
Speaker 4: there should have been incentives for officers to go and
20:37
Speaker 4: live remotely rather than say you will live remotely.
20:40
Speaker 6: Well, find some incentive.
20:41
Speaker 4: I don't know what incentives you could find, but there's
20:43
Speaker 4: lots of young families.
20:44
Speaker 8: I think the other point, if you're forcing someone to
20:46
Speaker 8: go Bush to do a.
20:48
Speaker 1: Great job, they're going to be very unhappy.
20:50
Speaker 2: But you know, the other like, the other point I
20:52
Speaker 2: think this again is so incredibly worth making, is that
20:56
Speaker 2: there are a lot of people at the moment that
20:57
Speaker 2: don't feel safe in the community. You know, business owners
21:00
Speaker 2: who feel really concerned about what's going on in the street.
21:03
Speaker 1: You know, like I'll give you an example.
21:05
Speaker 2: Last night or this morning, I've got a phone call
21:08
Speaker 2: from my mother a big block that our family owns
21:11
Speaker 2: a big commercial block. The business that's on the back
21:13
Speaker 2: of our block got broken into last night. I'm not
21:16
Speaker 2: sure exactly what's been stolen, but six foot gate with
21:19
Speaker 2: you know.
21:20
Speaker 1: With barbed wire at the top that's been knocked down.
21:23
Speaker 2: You know, I'm talking about a seven year old woman
21:25
Speaker 2: then inside our little self contained unit out there, very
21:29
Speaker 2: concerned obviously, when she's woken up about all of that
21:32
Speaker 2: damage and wondering exactly what's gone on, called the police,
21:36
Speaker 2: and the police said to her, do you think someone
21:39
Speaker 2: needs to come out? She said, well, yeah, I do
21:41
Speaker 2: think someone needs to come out. You know, I need
21:44
Speaker 2: some help. And the point here that I'm making is
21:47
Speaker 2: not that you know that the police aren't going out
21:49
Speaker 2: to different things, but the point that I'm trying to
21:51
Speaker 2: make is that, you know, if they feel as though
21:53
Speaker 2: they've not got the resources to go out to some
21:56
Speaker 2: of those different things, then to me, that really points
21:59
Speaker 2: to the fact that they're actually not able to do
22:01
Speaker 2: their jobs to the to the extent that they would
22:04
Speaker 2: like to be able to.
22:05
Speaker 1: Do them as well. And you know, and the community
22:07
Speaker 1: is screaming out for it.
22:08
Speaker 2: So I don't know exactly what's going to happen as
22:11
Speaker 2: a result of this survey. I am going to be
22:13
Speaker 2: speaking to the Police Association President Paul mceute just after
22:16
Speaker 2: ten o'clock this morning.
22:18
Speaker 4: But yeah, they need they need to also look and
22:21
Speaker 4: I don't know whether CLP did it during estimates, but
22:24
Speaker 4: my understanding is police officers have unlimited sickly now. I
22:28
Speaker 4: have heard that there is a high level of absentees
22:30
Speaker 4: and by police officers who probably genuinely need to have
22:34
Speaker 4: time away from the workplace and so you know, are
22:36
Speaker 4: using up their sickly now. They're probably doing it for
22:39
Speaker 4: a number of reasons. They're genuinely unwell, you know, physically,
22:41
Speaker 4: but there's probably the pressure of being in an unhappy
22:44
Speaker 4: and toxic workplace. And that's how it's been put to me.
22:46
Speaker 4: So if you're getting a high level of absenteesm that
22:49
Speaker 4: tells you something about your organization, you know, whether it
22:51
Speaker 4: be a public sector police force or even in the
22:53
Speaker 4: private sector. And you know, yes, police policing is a
22:56
Speaker 4: complicated issue, but it's not the only complicated thing we
22:59
Speaker 4: have in our side. I look at when Christine Holgate
23:02
Speaker 4: from Australia Post got into the issues, she did all
23:04
Speaker 4: her staff supported her. I don't know if people remember that,
23:07
Speaker 4: but you can have a complex organization of which Australia
23:10
Speaker 4: post is.
23:11
Speaker 6: Policing is complex.
23:12
Speaker 4: It's got its own particular issues and challenges and things
23:15
Speaker 4: of that nature. So you get the person in that
23:19
Speaker 4: job and then they've got to perform, and if they're
23:20
Speaker 4: not performing, then the officers, the rank and file are
23:22
Speaker 4: going to tell you so. And that's what they're doing
23:24
Speaker 4: and have done through this survey. So it's a big
23:27
Speaker 4: problem not only for the senior management of police, it's
23:29
Speaker 4: a big problem for thy government.
23:31
Speaker 2: Now.
23:31
Speaker 1: Look, I am of the understanding that.
23:33
Speaker 2: This morning Kate Warden, the Minister for Police, appeared on
23:36
Speaker 2: ABC in Alice Springs. She was asked whether she'd seen
23:41
Speaker 2: that police survey and whether she was concerned by the numbers.
23:45
Speaker 2: That's seventy nine point seven percent of members who responded
23:48
Speaker 2: to the survey had said that they didn't have confidence
23:51
Speaker 2: in the Police commissioner. Now, Warden had said, all the
23:55
Speaker 2: police do a fantastic job. Brassey, who obviously hosts that,
24:00
Speaker 2: I would said does the police commissioner have your confidence?
24:02
Speaker 2: She said yes, I will, yes, I will continue to
24:05
Speaker 2: work with the Commissioner on some very very important matters.
24:08
Speaker 2: It's no doubt that the police have had a very
24:11
Speaker 2: very rough two or three years under COVID. It's been
24:13
Speaker 2: particularly challenging right the way through. I did meet yesterday
24:17
Speaker 2: with the Commissioner and I'll be having a chat hopefully
24:20
Speaker 2: later today with the NTPA. Now the host says about
24:25
Speaker 2: those stats, and the Minister said, there are challenges all
24:29
Speaker 2: the time with this. I meet regularly with the NTPA,
24:33
Speaker 2: just as I do with the Commissioner, just as I
24:35
Speaker 2: do with the Fire Commissioner.
24:37
Speaker 1: So look, I'm sure that there is.
24:40
Speaker 2: Going to need to be a real sort of look
24:42
Speaker 2: through these survey results, but I don't know where it's
24:45
Speaker 2: all going to land.
24:46
Speaker 1: We'll all keep it very close on it, I'm.
24:48
Speaker 5: Sure, and I have no doubt you'll be onto Kate
24:51
Speaker 5: and definitely about that as well.
24:53
Speaker 3: I know that Lee. It was also trying to organize
24:54
Speaker 3: a meeting with a police association to see where these
24:56
Speaker 3: figures are going to take us moving forward, because I
24:59
Speaker 3: remember an estimate he was asking questions that the government
25:01
Speaker 3: refuses there there's no problem here to move on. So
25:03
Speaker 3: obviously there's a problem when we need to deal with
25:05
Speaker 3: it and need to deal with it quickly because we're
25:06
Speaker 3: talking about territory and safety here, we're talking about people,
25:09
Speaker 3: the police officers themselves, their own safety. Because we spoke
25:11
Speaker 3: about taking time off. It's just something needs to happen
25:14
Speaker 3: right Action needs to happen right now.
25:16
Speaker 2: Well, we'll take a very short break. You are listening
25:18
Speaker 2: to Mix one oh four nine's three point sixty. It
25:20
Speaker 2: is the week that was. If you have just joined us,
25:22
Speaker 2: it is indeed the week that was. Jared Maylee, Matt Cunningham,
25:25
Speaker 2: Keesi Apuric and Lauren Moss in the studio with me
25:28
Speaker 2: this morning. Now throughout the week, you may have heard
25:31
Speaker 2: on the show. Well, a lot of people were listening
25:32
Speaker 2: to this interview that I did with John Lawrence sc.
25:36
Speaker 1: He has pleaded with territory.
25:38
Speaker 2: Judges to refuse to send defendants to pack to the
25:41
Speaker 2: rafters prisons that are bordering on unlawful. Now, if you
25:45
Speaker 2: miss that interview with John Lawrence a little bit earlier
25:48
Speaker 2: in the week, he's just a small amount of what
25:50
Speaker 2: he had to say.
25:52
Speaker 9: The Minister is breaching, breaching grossly her duty of care
25:56
Speaker 9: and keeping prisoners in the conditions that they're currently for under.
26:00
Speaker 9: For instance, the overcrowding thing. That client that's on Friday.
26:05
Speaker 9: He's in a cell for two and he's number three
26:08
Speaker 9: and he's sleeping on the floor, and the other tour
26:11
Speaker 9: in bunk bits. Now this is going on all around
26:14
Speaker 9: the prison. There are even prisoners sleeping on mattresses in
26:17
Speaker 9: the reception area. Now that's just not on and it's
26:21
Speaker 9: probably unlawful. And unless somebody puts their hand up, puts
26:26
Speaker 9: the foot in the door, makes a statement says not
26:29
Speaker 9: good enough, fix it, it's going to deteriorate. And it's
26:33
Speaker 9: Mount Etna, you know, a prison in situation like that,
26:36
Speaker 9: full of men with backgrounds such as that is a volcano.
26:41
Speaker 2: So that was John Lawrence Yssay on the show a
26:44
Speaker 2: little bit earlier in the week. And I also noted
26:47
Speaker 2: this morning, I believe ABC News Wash reporting that a
26:50
Speaker 2: correction stuff I believed had taken action last weekend after
26:55
Speaker 2: I believe there was some maintenance work due to happen,
26:58
Speaker 2: which meant that they had felt that they wouldn't be
27:00
Speaker 2: safe in the corrections facility. And we will at some
27:04
Speaker 2: stage try to have the union on about that.
27:06
Speaker 6: Now.
27:06
Speaker 2: I know that there'll be plenty of people listening to
27:08
Speaker 2: the show and I said this to John Lawrence earlier
27:10
Speaker 2: in the week. There'll be plenty of people listening this
27:12
Speaker 2: morning thinking to themselves, do you know what they're prisoners?
27:14
Speaker 2: They've broken the law. I don't actually care. They deserve
27:17
Speaker 2: to be in jail, and I understand that that. You know,
27:19
Speaker 2: it may be how some people feel, but ultimately what
27:22
Speaker 2: you want when people go to prison is for them
27:24
Speaker 2: to be rehabilitated and come out better.
27:26
Speaker 1: People want they've gone to.
27:28
Speaker 4: Jail or they're on ramand because they've committed a crime
27:32
Speaker 4: and they've yet to be come to court, allegedly committed
27:35
Speaker 4: the crime and yet to come to court. And those
27:36
Speaker 4: who've gone to court and found guilty, they're in jail
27:38
Speaker 4: to do their time. But you're right, jails, as far
27:41
Speaker 4: as I can recall, are there to serve the time,
27:44
Speaker 4: do your punishment for being bad, but also to perhaps
27:47
Speaker 4: learn your skills, to have rehabilitations such that when you
27:49
Speaker 4: come out of jail you are perhaps a better person
27:53
Speaker 4: and be understand what you did, your consequences, and try
27:57
Speaker 4: and get on with a life like the rest of it.
27:58
Speaker 4: So what concerns me, Katie is and I think this
28:02
Speaker 4: came out in estimates or one of the interviews with
28:04
Speaker 4: the boss of the jailah you did, he says about
28:07
Speaker 4: nineteen hundred people in our jails across the territory and
28:10
Speaker 4: just under half I think it was are on remand
28:12
Speaker 4: now they're on remand waiting for their court case. Now,
28:15
Speaker 4: if I can just digress a slightly, we have six
28:18
Speaker 4: Supreme Court judges. Okay, now, twenty years ago or thereabouts,
28:22
Speaker 4: we had six Supreme Court judges. But the case load
28:25
Speaker 4: twenty years ago was about thirteen or fourteen hundred cases
28:29
Speaker 4: per year. I have got the figures, but not in
28:30
Speaker 4: front of me. The caseload now is about four thousand,
28:33
Speaker 4: and that's criminal.
28:34
Speaker 6: I don't know about civil.
28:36
Speaker 4: So they're not getting before the court system because we
28:39
Speaker 4: don't have enough Supreme Court judges. Now I have written
28:41
Speaker 4: a question on notice to the government about this. Why
28:44
Speaker 4: is there reluctance to put on a new judge. I'm
28:46
Speaker 4: talking about Supreme Court, not lower court, to try and
28:49
Speaker 4: get some of these people on remand get them out
28:51
Speaker 4: of the system. And Jered might have some comments to
28:53
Speaker 4: be given his background as a lawyer, then you wouldn't
28:56
Speaker 4: get the overcrowding. So it's one thing to have the overcrowding,
28:59
Speaker 4: but you got to look why is it overcrowded because
29:01
Speaker 4: there's a lot of people in it. So you've got
29:03
Speaker 4: to look at those on remand I think versus those
29:05
Speaker 4: who in prison following their trial, to get them out
29:08
Speaker 4: of the system, get them back into community as working, decent,
29:11
Speaker 4: law abiding adults.
29:12
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's definitely an issue.
29:14
Speaker 8: The thing that's remarkable about this, Katy, that prison only
29:17
Speaker 8: opened seven years ago.
29:19
Speaker 7: It's costing taxpayers.
29:21
Speaker 8: One point eight billion dollars over thirty years, and it's
29:24
Speaker 8: been riddled with defects since it opened, Absolutely riddled with defects.
29:28
Speaker 7: To the point where on the cheap Yeah, well probably.
29:31
Speaker 8: And John Laurence said that when I spoke to him
29:32
Speaker 8: this week, he reckons that's the case. And the thing
29:37
Speaker 8: is like since it opened, remember there was the issue
29:39
Speaker 8: with the sally Port door when it first opened, issues
29:42
Speaker 8: with the prisoners. I don't know whether it's still the case,
29:45
Speaker 8: but for a long time they were restricted to two
29:48
Speaker 8: flushes of the.
29:48
Speaker 7: Toilet per day.
29:49
Speaker 8: I mean, I know, we say, oh, well, you go
29:51
Speaker 8: to jail, bad luck, but there's a certain level of
29:53
Speaker 8: decency that you have to treat anyone with even if
29:56
Speaker 8: there's someone who's committed to crime.
29:57
Speaker 7: And the other.
29:58
Speaker 8: Issue is that because of the chaotic state of that facility,
30:03
Speaker 8: as keys you said, they're not getting the rehabilitation that
30:06
Speaker 8: they're supposed to get in the system. Now, I've got
30:08
Speaker 8: a report that's four years old now that KPMG did
30:12
Speaker 8: that showed that there was I think it was either
30:14
Speaker 8: the zero or one person had completed the sex offender
30:18
Speaker 8: rehabilitation program. Now I don't know what the twenty twenty
30:22
Speaker 8: two figure is, but you'd be hoping it's a fair
30:24
Speaker 8: bit better than that. And the other issue is the
30:27
Speaker 8: similar issue we're dealing with the police, right which is
30:29
Speaker 8: the shortage of staff. Because the other people who suffer
30:33
Speaker 8: because of this situation are the people who work in
30:36
Speaker 8: that facility, the prison officers.
30:39
Speaker 7: And very senior prison officers.
30:40
Speaker 8: And over the past six years, I have seen two
30:44
Speaker 8: now Corrections commissioners be treated absolutely appallingly when they have
30:50
Speaker 8: been given the shit sandwich of having to run that facility,
30:55
Speaker 8: you know, And I just think there's got to come
30:58
Speaker 8: a point where we say this is just not working.
31:02
Speaker 8: We need a total relook at the way it's being done.
31:04
Speaker 8: Because it's not working. For the people who work in
31:06
Speaker 8: the facility. It's not working for the prisoners and it's
31:09
Speaker 8: not working for the community. I'm seeing people go to prison,
31:12
Speaker 8: don't get rehabilitated, come out community of the crime exactly.
31:15
Speaker 3: Yea, I will take a step back. Our crime rate's
31:18
Speaker 3: gone through the roof. I think it's gone up almost
31:20
Speaker 3: fifty percents in the last six years. If the people
31:23
Speaker 3: don't do the crime, they wouldn't be in the prison. So,
31:25
Speaker 3: you know, putting aside the argument about you know you
31:27
Speaker 3: could do the time you're going here, who cared about
31:29
Speaker 3: the prisoner? You know, I agree with you, it needs
31:31
Speaker 3: to be some decency. But if they didn't do the
31:33
Speaker 3: crime to start with, they wouldn't be in it in
31:35
Speaker 3: that prison system, so numbers would be down. So it's
31:37
Speaker 3: truly up to the government to put in steps and
31:39
Speaker 3: take from a plan to reduce the crime. And we
31:43
Speaker 3: all know the crime through through the territory has gone
31:45
Speaker 3: through the roof no matter where you're talking about it.
31:47
Speaker 8: Point Jared is that I mean, you've worked, you're a lawyer,
31:49
Speaker 8: worked in the system. If there's no rehabilitation, the crime
31:53
Speaker 8: is going to keep going up because they go to
31:55
Speaker 8: jailly come out.
31:56
Speaker 3: But the rehabilitation is a one part of it. Just
31:57
Speaker 3: the social aspect of people. You know, they're getting the job,
32:00
Speaker 3: getting the people working here, getting people off the street,
32:02
Speaker 3: giving some meaningful employment, getting some sort of action to
32:05
Speaker 3: get to stop the crime and to make sure that
32:07
Speaker 3: these people have got a life to go to, and
32:10
Speaker 3: I know that some of these people have terrible homes
32:12
Speaker 3: to go to. We need to fix all those those
32:14
Speaker 3: route problems to get before they're into the system, because
32:16
Speaker 3: once you're in the system, it's very difficult. And you're right.
32:18
Speaker 3: I have been to the prison lots of time to
32:20
Speaker 3: see my clients, and getting into the prison and then
32:23
Speaker 3: going to meet your clients is such a delay, And
32:25
Speaker 3: that's one of the why it's so remind because you
32:28
Speaker 3: try and book to go to the prison and then
32:29
Speaker 3: they ring up and say you can't get there, so
32:32
Speaker 3: you can't go and see your client. So then you've
32:33
Speaker 3: got to put your court case off to journ it.
32:36
Speaker 3: So that whole delay after delay after lay is because
32:39
Speaker 3: you can't get into se him, and when you do
32:40
Speaker 3: get to see him, it's pretty poor that services you
32:42
Speaker 3: go there, You've got to get all.
32:43
Speaker 2: That moving on and there does seem to be some
32:45
Speaker 2: serious issues. I mean, he's a situation where the government's
32:48
Speaker 2: sort of out of sight, out of bight.
32:50
Speaker 1: No, absolutely not.
32:52
Speaker 5: I know that Chancey is the Attorney General, is acutely
32:57
Speaker 5: aware of the current issues and it's something that he's
33:01
Speaker 5: constantly looking at and that we're looking at as a
33:03
Speaker 5: government obviously. You know, I think much whoever mentioned it
33:09
Speaker 5: before is correct around courts and making sure that we're
33:12
Speaker 5: supporting courts and the Bush Court process, and we're making
33:15
Speaker 5: sure that those you know, that legal services are supported
33:20
Speaker 5: and people can be represented and the cases can be
33:22
Speaker 5: heard and we can move that through. Quicker has to
33:25
Speaker 5: absolutely continue to be a focus, you know, and the
33:29
Speaker 5: other things that Jared's talking about around we have to
33:32
Speaker 5: make changes to what's happening in terms of dysfunctional families,
33:36
Speaker 5: et cetera, et cetera. Well, that's the hard work that
33:38
Speaker 5: government's doing. But you don't see those changes overnight. We
33:41
Speaker 5: know that we have that debate on probably on a
33:44
Speaker 5: weekly basis. You know, that's the generational change work that
33:48
Speaker 5: government's been on the journey of for a long time.
33:51
Speaker 5: And I think we've been really really explicit about what
33:54
Speaker 5: we're doing in that space. But you don't see those
33:56
Speaker 5: changes overnight, and we know that. But yeah, look there's
34:01
Speaker 5: some there's pressures on the system at the moment, and
34:04
Speaker 5: you know, we've got an Aboriginal Justice Agreement. Programs delivered
34:09
Speaker 5: in our prison system are an important part of that.
34:12
Speaker 5: And you know, making sure that people have got access
34:14
Speaker 5: to education as well and training and those sorts of
34:18
Speaker 5: things is a really important part of making sure that
34:20
Speaker 5: our system is not just churning out worse offenders who
34:25
Speaker 5: will just end up remaining in the system or when
34:28
Speaker 5: they're not in the system, out causing bigger issues in
34:31
Speaker 5: our community. It's really important work, and it's.
34:34
Speaker 2: Really absolutely and that's the whole point I suppose at
34:36
Speaker 2: the moment, isn't it if they're not actually if they
34:39
Speaker 2: are not actually doing those programs and there's no space
34:43
Speaker 2: for them. And he's saying it's like Mount Edna at
34:46
Speaker 2: the moment, it's a volcano that's about to explode.
34:48
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a real worry.
34:50
Speaker 3: Well, because you remember these governments, the labor government being
34:53
Speaker 3: in power for almost seventeen our last twenty years, when
34:55
Speaker 3: you're talking about intergenerational change in time to fix it, well,
34:58
Speaker 3: the labor government have had control the leave for a
35:00
Speaker 3: long time, and the crime has gone through the roof.
35:02
Speaker 1: Look, we might take a very short break. It is
35:04
Speaker 1: the week that was.
35:05
Speaker 2: Let's talk petrol prices, because we know that these petrol
35:08
Speaker 2: prices remain well at the terminal gate, they continue to
35:12
Speaker 2: come down. I want to just take you through these
35:13
Speaker 2: prices today, Darwin. At the terminal gate, it's at a
35:16
Speaker 2: dollar fifty four point two now. On Monday this week
35:19
Speaker 2: it was at a dollar sixty two. When you head
35:21
Speaker 2: across to the bowser, the average is a dollar ninety five.
35:26
Speaker 1: And then when you take a look at your unleaded.
35:28
Speaker 2: Prices, well, it's going to be a similar Sorry, when
35:30
Speaker 2: you take a look at your diesel prices, it's going
35:32
Speaker 2: to be a similar situation. So your terminal gate price
35:35
Speaker 2: today for your diesels at a dollar seventy seven last
35:38
Speaker 2: or on Monday this week a dollar eighty five. Now
35:42
Speaker 2: at the bowser, the fairest you're going to find it's, well,
35:45
Speaker 2: the fairest is two dollars thirteen, but then it's two
35:47
Speaker 2: dollars twenty. The average is two dollars twenty. So the
35:50
Speaker 2: point that I'm making, obviously by reading out those terminal
35:53
Speaker 2: gate prices is that they continue to go down and
35:55
Speaker 2: they have done now for a number of weeks. But
35:58
Speaker 2: we really have not said movement at the bowser for
36:02
Speaker 2: a long bloody time. I don't know if you filled
36:04
Speaker 2: your car up, but of course.
36:06
Speaker 1: An arm and a lamb.
36:07
Speaker 4: My car is a little car with a little tank,
36:09
Speaker 4: and yes it was one hundred and ten bucks I
36:10
Speaker 4: think thereabouts. But the Price Exploitation Prevention Act, I know
36:15
Speaker 4: it's been talked about, I think on this show with
36:18
Speaker 4: the Consumer Affairs Commissioner.
36:19
Speaker 6: I know it's been talking on other media.
36:20
Speaker 4: Outits my research and the advice given to me is, yes,
36:24
Speaker 4: the government can use this piece of legislation to fix
36:27
Speaker 4: a price. Now how they do that, they'd probably have
36:29
Speaker 4: to have an instrument under the legislation. Now, do they
36:32
Speaker 4: say a percentage from the gate price like marg yeah,
36:35
Speaker 4: marchin ten percent whatever, or they set an actual price.
36:39
Speaker 4: You know, it can only be you can only get
36:40
Speaker 4: ten cents, fifteen cents whatever. This legislation is nineteen forty nine.
36:45
Speaker 4: It came in and that's when at the time there
36:47
Speaker 4: was a price fixing for eggs, milk and bread because
36:51
Speaker 4: of exploitation at that point in time. This legislation was
36:54
Speaker 4: used during and after the cash and floods when there
36:56
Speaker 4: was exploitation of soft drinks in the town and the
37:00
Speaker 4: consumer people at that time, and the Controller under this
37:02
Speaker 4: legislation fixed the price of those soft drinks because the
37:05
Speaker 4: businesses were exploiting.
37:07
Speaker 6: They were just ripping off the community something terrible.
37:09
Speaker 4: So I know I heard the commissioner person say, no,
37:12
Speaker 4: she can't use this because you can't interfere in market
37:15
Speaker 4: force's best bullshit. But we all came out the government
37:18
Speaker 4: can use this legislation and they should get their advice
37:20
Speaker 4: from the List of General to work out how they
37:22
Speaker 4: need to do it.
37:23
Speaker 2: And like that margin today is forty cent with respect
37:26
Speaker 2: to the commission that margins forty cents per later and we've.
37:28
Speaker 4: Been hoped off and the government is sitting idly piece
37:31
Speaker 4: of legislation on the table on the statute books that
37:34
Speaker 4: they can use. So I say to the government, the
37:37
Speaker 4: Attorney General, look at this legislation and sure the companies
37:42
Speaker 4: they're going to react, course they are. They're going to
37:43
Speaker 4: push back. They're going to soof off and get their
37:45
Speaker 4: own high paid barristers and challenge the government stare them down.
37:49
Speaker 6: It's just going to.
37:49
Speaker 4: Take some courage from the Chief Minister in the Attorney
37:51
Speaker 4: General to say enough enough, you're ripping off territories and
37:54
Speaker 4: we're going to set the price. You watch the prices
37:56
Speaker 4: come down there.
37:57
Speaker 3: Then they'll say the government to call an in which
38:00
Speaker 3: they can do Tomorrow's actually live the seal people. And
38:02
Speaker 3: to do this we've got to wait until the next parliament.
38:04
Speaker 3: But you know that's going to get these people in
38:07
Speaker 3: to get the summons of fuel, come to get them
38:09
Speaker 3: in to explain what they're doing, because you know, maybe
38:11
Speaker 3: there is a good rising right but I don't believe it,
38:13
Speaker 3: but maybe there is. We just need to know why
38:15
Speaker 3: it is and it'll just drive down the price. Because
38:17
Speaker 3: I come in from the rural area every day and
38:19
Speaker 3: I've got a big land cruise with a big fuel tank.
38:21
Speaker 3: It costs literally three hundred and fifty dollars to fuel
38:23
Speaker 3: in my car. I do write my bike ridden my
38:29
Speaker 3: bike in But it's just it's really the cost of
38:31
Speaker 3: living is affecting everyday territories right across the board. To
38:34
Speaker 3: remember big fuel prices, talk about transport and the territory
38:38
Speaker 3: relies on trucks, we've got big distances, we've got live stock,
38:41
Speaker 3: we've got farming. All those things all comes back to
38:44
Speaker 3: fuel needs to act. The government need to do something.
38:47
Speaker 1: So next month the fuel exercise comes.
38:49
Speaker 3: On exactly and do it right now if they if
38:53
Speaker 3: they chose to. But they seem to.
38:54
Speaker 5: Put their head and I call on the fuel companies
38:57
Speaker 5: and maybe there is a reasonable expectator or maybe there
38:59
Speaker 5: is reason or the Chief Minister has written to the
39:02
Speaker 5: ahriple c. She has written to a few companies and.
39:05
Speaker 3: Not until she got some pressure on it, and this
39:08
Speaker 3: inquiry would put them in and you can ask him questions.
39:10
Speaker 3: You're not just writing a letter. You get a nice
39:12
Speaker 3: drafted response back. Put him in a incendible witness box
39:15
Speaker 3: or in a room and say explain it to us.
39:17
Speaker 3: Then we could go back and forward and you can
39:19
Speaker 3: drill down and not just get a ask the question,
39:21
Speaker 3: get a response two weeks later, and have to respond
39:24
Speaker 3: another two weeks later, another month down the track.
39:27
Speaker 2: I can't understand why the government's not being tougher on this,
39:33
Speaker 2: and they need to be.
39:34
Speaker 1: Because you know, you're talking about sticking up for the.
39:36
Speaker 2: Heartbreaking territory and like we're talking about hard working territori
39:40
Speaker 2: ands who are saying, hang on a sect, this is
39:42
Speaker 2: not good enough forty cent margins. Now, I will definitely
39:45
Speaker 2: point out that I have had a petrol company or
39:48
Speaker 2: a petrol station get in contact with me and say Katie,
39:51
Speaker 2: I am you know. They may not be independently branded,
39:55
Speaker 2: but they are one that has to purchase their petrol
39:58
Speaker 2: from the major supplier, and there is a transport like
40:01
Speaker 2: there's transport that's added on to that and a couple
40:03
Speaker 2: of factors that come into play.
40:05
Speaker 1: Now I am all ears if that's the case.
40:08
Speaker 2: But if you're talking about some of those major companies
40:10
Speaker 2: that are purchasing the petrol or they've got the petrol themselves,
40:13
Speaker 2: and then it's it's going out to their service stations.
40:16
Speaker 2: You go, they are having a laugh, they're taking the piece.
40:19
Speaker 2: They think they can get away with us.
40:21
Speaker 3: And remember the service action. Don't you make money out
40:22
Speaker 3: of fuel? You go and buy some chips and lollies
40:24
Speaker 3: from the service station. Normally it's like, you know, it's
40:26
Speaker 3: pretty expensive. I take my kids there and I've got
40:28
Speaker 3: to pay out because they want this and want that,
40:30
Speaker 3: So there's an opportunity to my kids and then and
40:34
Speaker 3: then so ultimately you go there and put your fuel
40:36
Speaker 3: in your car, and also you've got to buy an
40:38
Speaker 3: ice cream and a drink, and those prices are expensive,
40:40
Speaker 3: and you take your family there the.
40:43
Speaker 8: Side of that, and you talk about the exercise cut
40:46
Speaker 8: that's ending in September is one of them.
40:49
Speaker 7: And I know there's been.
40:49
Speaker 8: A lot of lobbying for the federal government to continue that.
40:52
Speaker 8: But the other thing we've got to be mindful of
40:54
Speaker 8: the moment is that inflations through the roof, and one
40:57
Speaker 8: of the things the Reserve Bank's trying to do is
41:00
Speaker 8: to drive down that inflation by lifting interest rates.
41:03
Speaker 7: And I think.
41:04
Speaker 8: That the danger of certainly from the federal government's point
41:07
Speaker 8: of view, if they were to continue with the excise
41:09
Speaker 8: cut and the price of fuel was to ye is
41:14
Speaker 8: that then it has a contributed effect to inflation, which
41:18
Speaker 8: is going through the roof.
41:19
Speaker 7: And I think that we're in a bit of a
41:21
Speaker 7: quandary at the moment.
41:22
Speaker 8: I think, just generally speaking, with the cost of everything,
41:25
Speaker 8: I think we're all going to have to wear it
41:27
Speaker 8: for a little while that things are costing more because
41:32
Speaker 8: until that discretionary spending slows down, and one of the
41:35
Speaker 8: things driving is the fact that we've had the buckets
41:37
Speaker 8: of money poured into our bank accounts during COVID, and
41:40
Speaker 8: now we're seeing the consequence of that.
41:42
Speaker 2: On the flip side, I don't necessarily know that the
41:44
Speaker 2: excise needs to be extended, but I actually think the
41:47
Speaker 2: federal government and the territory government, like governments all around
41:50
Speaker 2: the nation, actually need to say, well, like you said, Keezy,
41:53
Speaker 2: I have to show a bit of courage and say
41:55
Speaker 2: to these fuel companies, hang on a sec you know,
41:58
Speaker 2: like we've obviously, you know, we're subsidizing this excise, but
42:02
Speaker 2: the prices are still through the roof, you know, if
42:05
Speaker 2: you were talking about that forty cent margin for in
42:08
Speaker 2: our case here in the Northern Territory. Well, and then
42:11
Speaker 2: there's the excise's like what is being pocketed at this
42:15
Speaker 2: point by the companies.
42:16
Speaker 4: And we in the Northern Territory are the only sub
42:19
Speaker 4: national jurisdiction that is suffering this way. All the others
42:21
Speaker 4: have got it under control, either by direct contact between
42:24
Speaker 4: the governments and fuel companies and fuel suppliers and petrol
42:27
Speaker 4: station industry. Whereas up here where we're heavily reliant upon transport,
42:33
Speaker 4: it's putting the price up for everything I told you
42:34
Speaker 4: last week about the cost of hay you going up
42:36
Speaker 4: because of transportation and petrol coust.
42:38
Speaker 6: It's across the board.
42:39
Speaker 4: Government needs to be courageous, use the legislation and tell
42:43
Speaker 4: the companies that they're going to send a message to them.
42:44
Speaker 2: We are going to have to take a very short break.
42:46
Speaker 2: You're listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty. Well,
42:49
Speaker 2: we've just about run out of time. I have gotten
42:51
Speaker 2: a studio with me, Jered Mayley, Matt Cunningham, Keesy Epiric
42:54
Speaker 2: and Lauren Moss. Now just very quickly before we wrap up.
42:57
Speaker 2: I know there has been a lot of discussion over
43:00
Speaker 2: recent days about the Funny Bay by election, and it
43:02
Speaker 2: was really interesting actually earlier in the week when Robin
43:05
Speaker 2: Lamley spoke to me on the show and said that
43:08
Speaker 2: she thinks the only way forward for the Conservatives to
43:10
Speaker 2: win a Northern territory election again is if the Conservative
43:14
Speaker 2: pollies rejoined each other.
43:16
Speaker 1: Kesier, come on rejoining.
43:20
Speaker 4: No, I've said publicly I'm not rejoining the CLP. However,
43:24
Speaker 4: I'm happy to work with the COLP. You know I've
43:26
Speaker 4: come from the CLP. I'm a conservative person. I share
43:29
Speaker 4: similar values, you know, similar policy position.
43:31
Speaker 6: Why wouldn't I work with them?
43:33
Speaker 4: Having said that, also, I can work with the Labor government,
43:35
Speaker 4: but only when it pertains to things that are realistic
43:39
Speaker 4: and common sense and trying to get legislation right. But
43:42
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, of course I'll help the CLP in
43:44
Speaker 4: the parliamentary setting Jenedan Mats.
43:46
Speaker 6: To rule areas.
43:47
Speaker 4: But no, there's nothing in it for me or my
43:50
Speaker 4: constituents to rejoining the CLP.
43:52
Speaker 2: Mat. I know that this is something you've written about before.
43:55
Speaker 2: I've found an interesting column and it's something that you've
43:58
Speaker 2: certainly written about before. That about something I mean, yeah,
44:01
Speaker 2: we're all puts that.
44:04
Speaker 6: It's common sense. I can understand that people.
44:06
Speaker 7: Thinking that I've got to stop writing.
44:10
Speaker 1: Can I just say something.
44:13
Speaker 4: Something in defense of the c LP people keep hanging
44:16
Speaker 4: on to the previous governor of the c LP. Right
44:19
Speaker 4: that those people have gone quite spectacually. I have to
44:22
Speaker 4: admit in a general election that's gone.
44:24
Speaker 7: Except for the two who became independent.
44:25
Speaker 1: That's this is this.
44:28
Speaker 4: Is a new batch of the members of Parliament. And
44:32
Speaker 4: I personally, and I've said this pubtly before, I think
44:34
Speaker 4: Lea does does a really good job in and out
44:36
Speaker 4: of the Parliament.
44:37
Speaker 6: So just get over the fact.
44:38
Speaker 4: Yes, Charles and Ton and all those codes they've gone
44:42
Speaker 4: rights previous.
44:43
Speaker 6: Lady you want do you want CLP?
44:46
Speaker 3: We're a broad Church.
44:48
Speaker 1: Application.
44:50
Speaker 3: I think that I'm talking to people, these people who
44:51
Speaker 3: had a gut full of labor.
44:52
Speaker 8: And it was the same thing last time I was
44:57
Speaker 8: in here.
44:58
Speaker 7: Last time was married booth. Yeah, that's the same as.
45:02
Speaker 8: She came up, but she'd been go on hammering Tom's
45:04
Speaker 8: at cake Warden saying you never answered the question.
45:07
Speaker 7: You dodge the question every time. Can you give us
45:09
Speaker 7: a great answer? And as soon as you asked her
45:10
Speaker 7: about that, yeah, application question you want to go into politics?
45:17
Speaker 7: If I could be in opposition all the time.
45:20
Speaker 2: We are going to have to wrap up because we're
45:23
Speaker 2: going to catch up with Paul McCue from the Northern
45:24
Speaker 2: Territory Police Association in just a moment.
45:27
Speaker 1: Jared Mayley, thanks so much for your time this morning.
45:29
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you everybody.
45:30
Speaker 1: Matt Cunningham, thanks so much for your time this morning.
45:33
Speaker 7: Dale and Salty Saturday Night Think Big Final.
45:36
Speaker 2: Go Salties Awesome, go the Salties Keasy appearing, thank you,
45:40
Speaker 2: and Lauren Moss, thank you so much.
45:42
Speaker 5: And I hope everyone enjoys some festival activities next week
45:45
Speaker 5: or saying absolutely