Latest / New Worlder / Episode #104: Dave Pynt

Transcript

Episode #104: Dave Pynt · New Worlder

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is the New Order podcast and I am one of your hosts, Nicholas Gill.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Co-host Juliana Duque will be joining shortly.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are speaking with Dave Pint.
• 0:11
  He is the Perth,
• 0:12
  Australia-born chef of the restaurant Burnt Ends in Singapore.
• 0:17
  Burnt Ends opened since 2013,
• 0:20
  which followed a pop-up in London from the year before.
• 0:24
  has been one of the restaurants driving the global conversation
• 0:28
  around modern barbecue,
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: which,
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: as Pint explains,
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: is barbecue where anything goes.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's not attached to tradition, to history, or to borders.
• 0:38
  It simply means a focus on cooking over fire,
• 0:42
  and the influences are many.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't even necessarily mean cooking meat,
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: as you might assume with the word barbecue as it is used
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: in the United States.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Peent recently published a book about the restaurant,
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: which is unlike almost any cookbook I've ever seen.
• 1:00
  It's not the kind of restaurant cookbook where it's a
• 1:03
  straightforward life story
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: plus some recipes.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Much of the history is written and illustrated like a graphic novel.
• 1:10
  There are interviews and thoughts about techniques surrounding
• 1:13
  cooking with fire.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: And as we talk about in the interview,
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't even want to include recipes, but ultimately he caved.
• 1:20
  But those recipes are written just as they are used in the
• 1:23
  restaurant rather than
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: trying to dumb them down for a home kitchen.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: So some of them have like 40 portions and things like that.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's not usual.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: He worked with mutual friends of mine, P.A.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: and Lotte Jorgensen.
• 1:38
  who you might know from the Swedish food magazine Fool in
• 1:41
  creating this book,
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: which together they self-published,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: so they didn't have to make any compromises in the style.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: In the interview,
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: we discuss the path that Pint took from working around the world,
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: the time he spent traveling in South America,
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: how Asador Etsebari impacted his life,
• 2:01
  and the change in setup from his previously small restaurant in
• 2:05
  Singapore's Chinatown,
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: to a much bigger spread with multiple concepts on Dempsey Hill,
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: which he opened just a couple of years ago.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't subscribed to my newsletter,
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: just go to neworder.com or search for New Order on Substack.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's free to subscribe.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: The paid subscribers get access to all content and archives.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Again, just go to neworder.com.
• 2:26
  Also look for my books,
• 2:27
  such as the Latin American Cookbook at small bookstores everywhere.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And don't forget to check out the New Worlder YouTube channel.
• 2:35
  We have full video episodes there,
• 2:38
  as well as some clips and other video content.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: This whole interview will be there, full video.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Just go to youtube.com slash newworlder.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And please subscribe, like us, share us.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Every little bit helps us get listened to.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the show.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, Dave.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: How's it going?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Very good, man.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: How are you guys?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, Dave.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: Good, thanks.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're good.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's an ice storm where I'm at this morning.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: What's the weather like in Singapore?
• 3:53
  It's a little bit cooler than it usually is because we've had a
• 3:57
  lot of rain.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's monsoon season.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so everything's a little bit cooler than normal.
• 4:03
  So it's like mid to high 20s,
• 4:05
  which is actually really nice for Singapore.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the heat's like extreme there most of the year, right?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: So when we get into summer,
• 4:15
  it'll be like cracking over 40 degrees and it's like super
• 4:18
  humid still and just...
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: really, really, really hard.
• 4:22
  Whereas now it's like,
• 4:23
  yeah,
• 4:23
  there's a lot of rain,
• 4:25
  but it's nice and cool.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very nice to be in here.
• 4:28
  So it must be good to work in a live fire environment in that
• 4:32
  kind of heat.
• 4:34
  try yeah we've got a lot of air con which balances it out if
• 4:40
  we're in a colder
• 4:41
  climate you'd be like thank god thank god we're cooking with
• 4:44
  fire because we can
• 4:45
  just go stand by it and warm up everyone would be fighting over
• 4:48
  the grills and
• 4:48
  ovens so so i've never been to burn ends like in any version of
• 4:53
  it sadly because
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: i'm from what i think yeah thanks man
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So usually when I do these interviews,
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: I usually know the person a little bit because it's a long interview.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like an hour.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And to have a conversation,
• 5:08
  it's better to know them a little bit just to kind of break the
• 5:12
  ice and not just go
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: over a basic history of blah,
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: where do you learn to cook and that kind of stuff.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: But we have a friend in common in PA.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously.
• 5:31
  So when I saw he shot the book and he was working with you guys
• 5:35
  for a few years on this,
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: I guess.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it took about two years.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what he said.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I called him up yesterday and just got the rundown.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like I know you a little bit.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Background check.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there won't be as many surprises and things.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, so he told me a bunch of things.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully good.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: First of all,
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: he said the one thing he,
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: kept saying is,
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 6:05
  it was an overall great experience and it was a great
• 6:07
  experience because you
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: trusted them.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: You trusted PA and Malta.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 6:14
  and he said that's kind of a theme in your workplace that you
• 6:20
  hire people that you
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: trust and you build trust with them and
• 6:25
  And they like to stay there and you reward them with trust and
• 6:29
  they reward you with
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: kind of loyalty in that way.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is that true or is he just like making shit up?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: No,
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'd actually like to think it's true because,
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: we've,
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: what,
• 6:44
  two years ago we had two of our staff members reach 10 years
• 6:48
  and that's when we hit
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: 10 years.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then this year we had a gap, so we didn't have anyone last year.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then this year we've got seven people hitting 10 years.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: whether it's PA and Lotta in terms of trusting,
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: like I've known them maybe over 10 years as well.
• 7:08
  And,
• 7:09
  you know,
• 7:09
  I reached out to them and was like,
• 7:12
  hey,
• 7:13
  I think I'm ready to do a book.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't think of anyone better than you guys to do it with.
• 7:18
  it's not because I wanted to control the situation or the,
• 7:21
  or the creativity or whatever.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's because I trusted them to do, to do what they're really good at.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, to do the book justice with the best intentions.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And right.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: that's how I like to work too with,
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 7:36
  I've worked on a lot of cookbooks at this point and I think it
• 7:40
  only works if you
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: trust each other and you're kind of,
• 7:45
  open to each other but you give each other space to do what you
• 7:49
  know the other can
• 7:51
  do yeah i think with those guys you you have to kind of let the
• 7:55
  freak fly i guess i
• 7:57
  don't know like uh because they are so creative and they are
• 8:00
  they are so brilliant
• 8:03
  yeah and look i think the thing is it's like when i look at
• 8:06
  what they do i have no
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: fucking idea what they do
• 8:10
  Right,
• 8:11
  I see,
• 8:11
  or I hear them talking about stuff,
• 8:15
  and then you see an end result,
• 8:17
  right?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: But you don't understand,
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: or I don't,
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: how it goes from A to B.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think,
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: instead of me trying to micromanage that,
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: the road from A to B,
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like,
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: this is what you guys are really good at.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Let you guys be really good at, and let's see the result.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: luckily they're very fucking good at what they do and we're very,
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: very happy with the book.
• 8:46
  Yeah,
• 8:46
  no,
• 8:47
  it's really beautiful and it's very non-traditional too,
• 8:53
  which I love.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many cookbooks that just like,
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: especially restaurant cookbooks,
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: they're just the same shit all the time,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: the same kind of format of...
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And they're boring,
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: even with like beautiful photos and nice paper,
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: they become...
• 9:08
  boring very easily and you know you buy them you put them on
• 9:11
  your shelf and they
• 9:11
  look good but you never open them you never like read anything
• 9:17
  so i mean it's hard
• 9:19
  yeah i was about to say the same it seems to have a different
• 9:24
  balance between
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: talking about the history of the restaurant,
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: your personal journey,
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: and it focuses on the technique and the process,
• 9:34
  and I think through trying to define what the nature of the
• 9:39
  work is and why,
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: and then the recipes.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: But the recipes are not the center of everything.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, yeah, we'll get there.
• 9:47
  But before that,
• 9:48
  there is all this,
• 9:49
  which is actually what the work is,
• 9:52
  right?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that balance is cool.
• 9:56
  I think that was actually the very first conversation that we
• 9:59
  had when we were
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: discussing it as well.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we don't want to do another cookbook,
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: like a repetitive formula cookbook that just,
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: here it is,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: bang,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: bang,
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: bang.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think coming back to the recipes,
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: we didn't want to do them or I didn't want to do them,
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: they didn't want to do them and,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: a little bit further down the track.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: We succumbed and we're like, no, we need to do them.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, fine, but we're going to do it on our terms.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: These are our terms for the recipes.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to talk about that too.
• 10:34
  That's one of the things you said is like the first thing you
• 10:37
  guys agreed on was no recipes,
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: but at the end it was like,
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: we have to do recipes.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: But then it's like,
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: but we're not going to make them so easy that,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: everyone in,
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: in fucking Kansas city is,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: can,
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: can make them,
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: just by going to the supermarket,
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: it's,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: or just using what you have in your pantry.
• 10:58
  It's,
• 10:58
  you know,
• 10:58
  some of the recipes have like 40 portions and things like that.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're just what they are at the restaurant.
• 11:04
  It's not for,
• 11:06
  for,
• 11:07
  for everyone and you just kind of have to figure it out.
• 11:10
  yeah look i i think the thing was like i i hear i or i've heard
• 11:15
  so many nightmares
• 11:16
  about recipe testing and trying to get everything accurate and
• 11:20
  you know did did the
• 11:21
  chef leave out the magical ingredient to what makes it special
• 11:26
  and and i think you
• 11:28
  know i looked at it and was like look these are the recipes we
• 11:31
  use every single day
• 11:32
  you know we've got different equipment different products
• 11:34
  different this but
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: These are the recipes we use every single day in the restaurant.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: This works with the scaling and everything.
• 11:43
  It might not work for your dinner party for two people when
• 11:46
  you're trying to
• 11:47
  impress your girlfriend or your fiance or your wife or whoever
• 11:49
  it might be.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is for, you know, this is what we do.
• 11:54
  If you want to try and scale it and replicate and have a bit of fun,
• 11:57
  go nuts.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Go nuts and enjoy.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And from what I understand, P.A.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: and Lotta tested their recipes on a little hibachi in Sweden.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Did you see the photo the other day?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Actually,
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: that's one thing that made me,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I guess,
• 12:17
  super happy to have done the book and also to have worked with
• 12:21
  them as well because
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: –
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: they were genuinely interested in what we were doing,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: why we were doing it,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: and how we were doing it.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And to see them go away,
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: or especially PA on the hibachi,
• 12:36
  to go away and try different techniques that we've done and
• 12:40
  recipes that we've done,
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: that's fucking sick.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's really cool.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: it has to be hard,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: too,
• 12:47
  to make recipes when just the control of the fire is so attuned
• 12:52
  to your specific restaurant.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how can you translate that, you know, like in a standard format?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it wouldn't even make sense if you tried, really.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: we've done a lot of pop-ups and events,
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: and we've got to use makeshift equipment and stuff,
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: and it's hard.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And even when I cook at home, I've got like a –
• 13:14
  kamado joe and you know to to do the things that we do in the
• 13:19
  restaurant and get
• 13:21
  that sort of you know that perfection that we want it's just so
• 13:24
  hard at home yeah
• 13:26
  yeah i mean but so much of it is intuition you know and just
• 13:29
  like knowing when
• 13:31
  knowing heat yes yeah it's something that you know you just
• 13:36
  learn and people go how
• 13:38
  do you how do you teach that and it's like you can't teach it
• 13:41
  it takes time
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really that, you know, you do it over and over again.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: You see the same piece of steak all the time.
• 13:49
  And you can see the subtle changes that,
• 13:52
  you know,
• 13:52
  it looks different,
• 13:53
  feels different.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you just know that it's right.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 13:57
  you know the heat that you've got to cook on and whether it's
• 14:00
  hot enough and how
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: you need to manage it and all those little details that,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: there's no textbook.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's just time and training and repetition.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: and I'm curious,
• 14:15
  what would you say has been the process to get to this taken
• 14:20
  barbecue and what you
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: call contemporary barbecue?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: And for people that haven't seen the book, how does that look like?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: How do we get to the point where we are?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you mentioned training.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: What are the steps in retrospective that took you to...
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: to that technique.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: my,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: like growing up in Australia,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm sorry,
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: I will make this a little bit convoluted,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: but growing up in Australia,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: there's not a huge history of tradition in terms of food.
• 15:02
  And what you actually get is you get this huge melting pot of
• 15:05
  all these different
• 15:06
  cultures and ethnicities in Australia that have bastardised
• 15:10
  their traditions and
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: made them slightly Australian.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got this...
• 15:18
  sense of like ability to not conform to strict tradition i
• 15:23
  think that's that's a
• 15:24
  really important part of it and then you know traveling all
• 15:28
  over the world and
• 15:28
  seeing what everyone else does and how amazing you know whether
• 15:32
  you're in japan or
• 15:33
  china or you know the philippines or scandinavia in in denmark
• 15:38
  or spain or france
• 15:40
  or or in south america or wherever you are there's so many
• 15:44
  incredible flavors
• 15:48
  to sort of be able to capture what I like about those flavors
• 15:54
  and essentially
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: bastardize them to what,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think would be nice.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: it's quite liberating and it means we don't have to be like,
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: this has to be like this and this has to be like this.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: We can gel everything together and just have a lot of fun with it.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so...
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: modern barbecue is that,
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: everyone's got barbecue in their history and their tradition,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's how we all started cooking.
• 16:26
  but how we use it is all very different and the flavors that we
• 16:30
  we do are all very
• 16:31
  different and to bring them all back together is just you know
• 16:36
  that that is the
• 16:37
  future of modern barbecues what's next what's what's cool what
• 16:41
  flavor do you like
• 16:42
  how can we pair it being in singapore we can get products from
• 16:45
  all over the world
• 16:46
  and combine different flavors at any time we want and we don't
• 16:50
  have that stigma of
• 16:52
  tradition and being like this has to be with this and done like
• 16:55
  this it's like you
• 16:56
  know what it we just want to make it tasty and you know that's
• 17:01
  it that's our rule
• 17:02
  right cook it over wood and make it tasty and so over time
• 17:07
  you're able to build
• 17:07
  that out with like coming back to the staff by teaching them
• 17:13
  training them and then
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: learning to trust their intuition
• 17:17
  to be able to cook like impeccably over long services and come
• 17:22
  up and create new
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: dishes and stuff that will stand down the test of time.
• 17:28
  So what I find interesting of this whole kind of modern
• 17:31
  barbecue concept that's,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: it's been going on for like 20 years or so,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: I guess,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: in some form or another,
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: it's like you said,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: we've all,
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: every culture kind of started by cooking over fire.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: But this modern element to it,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: why did it get so,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: why did we get so disconnected from that?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just cooking over fires.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is the fact that it's kind of resurging now,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: is it some kind of rebellion against,
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: French and Spanish and very,
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: intricate fine dining?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is that why,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: this very kind of primal cooking is kind of finding its way into,
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: modern kitchens?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely – I wouldn't like to say it's a rebellion.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the reason – a big part of the reason why it's not done in,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of classical kitchens is it's fucking hard work.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's, you know, extra work, extra steps.
• 18:37
  I remember in our old kitchen,
• 18:39
  we could never keep it clean because there's ash –
• 18:45
  going everywhere and in those perfect kitchens that was a
• 18:50
  massive liability right
• 18:53
  and so i think you know one part of is yes it's not a rebellion
• 18:57
  it's just very hard
• 18:57
  work so you've got to dedicate a lot of resources to doing that
• 19:02
  one essentially one
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: job or that one dish in a you know iron kitchen
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it does make sense.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: But if you revolve your whole restaurant around it,
• 19:11
  you get some sort of economies of scale that you can operate a
• 19:15
  business out of.
• 19:16
  I think the other thing is I'm pretty sure Paris specifically
• 19:21
  is one of the hardest
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: places in the world to have live fire.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because of regulations or something?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because of regulations.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And also in the UK for a long time before the water mist filtration hoods
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: came into it, it was very, very hard for live fire as well.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's two reasons why it wasn't done before.
• 19:47
  And I think one of the reasons why it's being done more so now
• 19:54
  is because a lot of
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: people feel that the end result justifies the hard work.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, for me,
• 20:04
  it's you know fire has that little bit of magic in it that you
• 20:09
  know can never be
• 20:10
  replicated and you can't explain it why you can't put you know
• 20:15
  something like a few
• 20:16
  drops or whatever and it'll make it taste the same the fire
• 20:19
  live fire does
• 20:20
  something magic to food that people just find intrinsically
• 20:25
  delicious and i think
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: people look at that and go actually that makes fucking sense let's
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: let's cook like this for our guests because they will find it delicious.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the inconsistency of it sometimes makes food taste good.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, cooking meat sous vide is so fucking boring.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it might have the perfect, you know, texture throughout, but...
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's just so boring.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the same every time.
• 21:02
  Sometimes that little bit of char or fat in the wrong way just
• 21:08
  tastes so good.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Inconsistency.
• 21:11
  I think it's so underrated in all these kitchens that we've
• 21:15
  been trained to just
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: think perfection is uniformity for so long.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, I 100% agree.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think...
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: the first thing that sprang to mind when you said that was,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: when you cook whole fish on the bone.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: in the traditional fine dining kitchens,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: you'd never,
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: ever comprehend serving,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: the shoulder and the tail at the same time because you can't cook them.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can't cook them two feet at the same time.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: It just doesn't work right.
• 21:52
  But when you cook a whole fish,
• 21:53
  okay,
• 21:54
  yes,
• 21:54
  the tail will be more cooked than...
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: the shoulder bit,
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: but when you eat the whole fish,
• 22:01
  actually the tail's delicious cooked like that and the
• 22:04
  shoulders delicious cooked
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: like that.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like that process of,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:08
  the changes and the nuances in like the fat and the flavor and
• 22:11
  the texture and the
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: charred bits is,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: perfectly imperfect.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Perfectly perfect.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's perfect.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:26
  There is a section in the book in which you talk about how you
• 22:31
  work with your staff
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: and a full staff takeover.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah,
• 22:37
  I'm curious about that approach to your team and why it's so
• 22:43
  important to be fully
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: in depth with them too.
• 22:49
  So the process is intense,
• 22:50
  the technique is intense,
• 22:51
  but also your work with them.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: Can you talk a little bit about that?
• 22:56
  Yeah,
• 22:56
  look,
• 22:57
  I think it's – there's a couple of things for the staff takeover.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Number one,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: it's actually the only time I ever eat in the restaurant,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: so it's one of my favourite moments of the year.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the second thing is it gives the team so much value and,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:19
  it forces them to do things that they thought they couldn't do
• 23:22
  or they weren't
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: ready for and –
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: When they go through the actual process of sitting down,
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: thinking about a dish,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: discussing the dish,
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: doing a first draft and realising,
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: fuck,
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: actually,
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm quite a way away from where I want it to be.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then over the subsequent weeks or months,
• 23:44
  refining that and adjusting and changing and then ending up
• 23:48
  with a product that
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: they're very happy with and then cooking for their family and friends...
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: is to give them that opportunity.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think twofold.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: One, it scares the hell out of them because it's their food.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not my food.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: They just cook my food and I deal with the consequences.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: But in this case, they get to deal with the pros and the cons of it.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it fills them, gives them that nervous energy.
• 24:16
  And then when they realize they've created something amazing
• 24:20
  and their family and
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: their friends are super proud of them and enjoyed it,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: it fills them with this belief that they can do amazing things.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you see the teamwork among – because now we've got a lot bigger.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: We've got more staff.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we combine the –
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: the dishes between members and they get to work with each other.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they need to learn teamwork and compromise and sourcing and ideas.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just,
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: it's,
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: it's one of the best things we do and something that we,
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: everyone looks forward to describe it being a huge amount of hard work.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something I like.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's the one time I eat in the restaurant every year.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's the only time.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: You staged at Noma.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever, um, take part in those, um,
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know, not the staff takeovers, but the, uh, what is it called?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like Saturday night projects.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: I did it.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was a disaster.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't a disaster.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was a potato and rhubarb.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I can,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember exactly,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: exactly what the dish was,
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: but I think,
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think we,
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: I,
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: I did it because Renee was like,
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: I want to work on a dessert.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's potato and rhubarb.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: or something, maybe a passing comment from him.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you know what, I'm going to give this to God.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to do this as my project.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like, you know, the practices went all right.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was an okay dish.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then you put it up at like 2 a.m.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: in the morning on Saturday after a big week.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like something – and you've got to use a team to do it, right?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just you cooking –
• 25:59
  everyone and you know some things don't turn out right and it's
• 26:02
  just you put it up
• 26:04
  and it gets critiqued in front of everyone yeah and you've
• 26:08
  you've got to you know
• 26:10
  your heart's on the line right it's like everything's all in
• 26:14
  and you've got to take
• 26:15
  the feedback and you listen to it and you know if it's good
• 26:19
  enough it'll evolve to
• 26:20
  your next step if it's not it you know it goes to the side and
• 26:23
  sell a v right but
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: that was a very very scary process
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of fun.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure dreams have been crushed.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: So what was the potato?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: What did you do to the potato to make it kind of sweet?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think we might have done,
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: there might have been like a sweet,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: and it wasn't a sweet potato puree.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was a sweetened potato.
• 26:52
  potato puree and then it had like a had like compressed rhubarb
• 26:57
  and a rhubarb
• 26:59
  granita and it had crispy potato chips for texture as well and
• 27:05
  but it was yeah it's
• 27:06
  just a yeah yeah and and i and i think i i think what was what
• 27:13
  i what i probably
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: big takeaway from that
• 27:16
  event was is that you know it's really important to recognize
• 27:21
  at the end of it that
• 27:23
  a dish is like meh and be able to move on and be like okay put
• 27:27
  it to one side even
• 27:28
  though I think I'm the messiah I'm not put it to one side and
• 27:31
  let's look at what
• 27:33
  might be good the next project but sometimes those things that
• 27:38
  come out of that you
• 27:39
  know maybe that dish didn't work as a whole but maybe a piece
• 27:43
  of it does you know
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: what I mean like
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: when I'm writing something,
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always like,
• 27:49
  I'm always having these like little beautiful bits of texts
• 27:52
  that don't exactly fit
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: with the whole thing,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: but they're there.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: They're still there.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it's,
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: it makes sense somewhere,
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: maybe not in this,
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: this particular story,
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: but maybe down the way,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: down the way writing something else,
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: it kind of comes back and has a use of,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And, yeah, I love to save those little bits.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, like in a document, sometimes just in my head.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes those, like, they just need time to work themselves out.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: This one, I think, was a trash can.
• 28:35
  But I think,
• 28:37
  you know,
• 28:37
  the process of it and,
• 28:40
  you know,
• 28:40
  that whole thing about
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, seeing what your team can do was the biggest lesson.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was what can your team do?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't think it all has to be on one person.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Don't think that, you know, one person is one that leads everything.
• 28:58
  Look within your team and try and draw out what they can do and
• 29:03
  let them actually
• 29:04
  be the life and the force as much as you are to bring your food
• 29:09
  to the guests.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: So is the setup kind of the same with your staff takeover?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's in teams or the team helps every person?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Look, we're always a team.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so basically,
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: essentially,
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: the process will be we'll split the team up into dishes or groups.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we just sort of say, give us your ideas.
• 29:38
  And we're not even putting people into like snacks,
• 29:42
  starters,
• 29:42
  mains,
• 29:43
  desserts at this stage.
• 29:44
  It's just show us your ideas and talk us through your ideas and
• 29:48
  then let's go from there.
• 29:50
  And,
• 29:51
  you know,
• 29:51
  there's three or four senior staff that work on it with these guys.
• 29:55
  And we'll take their ideas and we'll try and flesh it out a
• 29:59
  little bit with them,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: understand where it might fit.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then we'll be like first drafts.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then the first draft will come up and you'll be like,
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: where do we take it to go left,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is it perfect?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Should we put it here?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then we go, where does this fit in the menu?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have to make menu calls on how all this works.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:19
  from there we'll refine maybe three or four more times
• 30:22
  depending on how keen they
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: are and how much work we think needs to happen.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then it all comes together in a beautiful dinner.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so,
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 30:35
  I've usually tasted each dish four or five times before I can
• 30:38
  sit down and eat,
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: but I still love it.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: The bakery.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: You mentioned something in the book about how in Australia,
• 30:48
  bakeries are part of the community and daily life and how
• 30:52
  important that is for you
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: growing up there.
• 30:56
  And I'm curious if the energy and the process in the bakery and
• 31:02
  techniques wise and
• 31:04
  flavors wise contrast with your main project or it follows the
• 31:09
  same principles or yeah,
• 31:11
  how they complement each other and how would you describe the
• 31:14
  bakery for people
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_03: that haven't been there?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Look,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the important things was when we first started,
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: we've always done our own baking and bakery.
• 31:27
  And my wife,
• 31:28
  Katrina,
• 31:28
  was the first one that sort of was working in that role for a time.
• 31:35
  And so it really followed out our ethos of,
• 31:38
  you know,
• 31:39
  we want to do it ourselves.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: We want to have high quality.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: We want it to look a certain way and we want to taste a certain way.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, as it evolved,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's very simple.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: We want to do the best product.
• 31:55
  We want to make it super tasty and we want to have it at a
• 31:58
  reasonable price so that,
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: you can come once a week or twice a week.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: You can come and pick up a loaf of bread.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: You can pick up a special treat for a guest.
• 32:08
  And it's really,
• 32:09
  you know,
• 32:10
  number one,
• 32:11
  we want to keep that wood-fired element.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when we actually opened a bakery,
• 32:17
  We got this Canadian oven designer or oven builder,
• 32:23
  wood-fired oven builder,
• 32:26
  to design it.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And because it was COVID, he couldn't come out and build it.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we built it locally.
• 32:30
  But we built this huge wood-fired bread oven in our restaurant
• 32:34
  so that we could
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: have wood-fired bread as the heart and soul of the bakery.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so we do,
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: it is an extension of what we do at the restaurant as opposed to,
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: a very different product to who we are and what we do.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: Does humidity affect more the bakery?
• 32:54
  Because I saw that in the rolling of the donuts before they go
• 32:58
  to the customer
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: twice because of the sugar gets soaked.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I was, this must happen with a lot of processes, right?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: The humidity is a nightmare.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got things like meringues and stuff, they can't sit out.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got things that are crispy, they don't stay crispy.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got to, I guess, moderate our hopes and dreams to reality here.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because,
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: we might go,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: look,
• 33:34
  we would love to have like all these meringuey stuff and we
• 33:37
  love eating it when
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: we're in Europe or wherever it is.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: But when you bring it to Singapore, it's soggy shit.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you give up to a lot.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not good.
• 33:49
  So,
• 33:50
  you know,
• 33:51
  you work to your strengths and avoid your weaknesses a little bit,
• 33:56
  like humidity.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I found fascinating when talking about PA,
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: he said that it's not like you can go to farms or anything.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Everything's imported.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's no direct connection to the product.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Which is... No.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Which seems strange,
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: but I mean,
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: I guess like in New York,
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: it's mostly like that too,
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: with some exceptions,
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: obviously.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: But another thing he said is that,
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: or maybe it was in the book,
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: that people in Singapore rarely eat at home.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is that true?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: They go out for every meal?
• 34:37
  Some families will go out for every,
• 34:39
  not yet,
• 34:40
  pretty much every single meal.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you have the,
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: you have these focus centers,
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: which,
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: might be in the bottom of your apartment.
• 34:48
  And so you walk down and you've got a variety of,
• 34:52
  and I'm talking cheap,
• 34:53
  you know,
• 34:53
  like,
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: $3, $4 for a breakfast or a lunch, maybe $7 or $8 for a dinner.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know where you can cook at home.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: I can't cook at home for that price.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's super expensive there, right?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Singapore is really expensive, like everything, right?
• 35:14
  Maybe not as much as America,
• 35:15
  but it is super expensive,
• 35:19
  especially in New York,
• 35:20
  maybe.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's very expensive.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: So these hawker centres are everywhere.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: So the habit of eating out is very normal.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have a lot of room in their houses.
• 35:33
  So,
• 35:33
  you know,
• 35:34
  when we first moved here,
• 35:35
  our accommodation,
• 35:36
  there was no oven.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's no oven.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: There was like a tiny little gas grill and that was it.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so it made a lot more sense for us to,
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: you go downstairs,
• 35:48
  you have like congee or you might have pratha one morning and
• 35:52
  then you have curry
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: and fishbowl soup and noodles and chicken rice.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've got so many options that you almost can't get bored.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: But doesn't it get exhausting to eat like that all the time?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's because like now I kind of live in the countryside, but...
• 36:11
  Thinking like to go get food for me now is like,
• 36:15
  I have to go drive somewhere.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: But it's right there, right?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: It feels like it's close to you.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: So imagine having a food hall on your doorstep.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: that was cheaper than you could cook at home for.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you didn't have like,
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: like a big house and you know,
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: lots of cooking facilities and three fridges and you know,
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: whatever else and a big dining table.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you, you're in a small little apartment.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: The kitchen's really small.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: You're trying to cook for everyone,
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: but actually you can just go downstairs,
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: have essentially a professional cook for you and it's cheap.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: And because it happens every day,
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: there is no this protocol and,
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: whole thing about...
• 36:59
  So I think it makes it just like an extension of your dining
• 37:03
  room or something.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you see familiar faces and friends down there.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's very communal.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's nice.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: But the farm thing is an issue.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Not an issue.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, yeah, a bit of a gut-sopping.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: I guess those two questions, right?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, I guess it's something you have to adjust to.
• 37:25
  But it's just like it's such a big part of most modern
• 37:30
  restaurants these days is,
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: this like talking about this,
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: direct connection to the farmer and blah,
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: even when,
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: half the time it's bullshit.
• 37:39
  But still,
• 37:40
  like,
• 37:40
  you know,
• 37:41
  it's like it's still part of the modern restaurant story,
• 37:48
  you know.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you could never have that.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like, I mean, it just doesn't exist at all, right?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a single farm in Singapore or?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look, there are farms.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's, you know, they've got vertical farms.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there's a goat farm where they produce milk.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: And they've got a few things, but it's...
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's not ideal.
• 38:17
  It's not like if you're in a country and you've got a farmer
• 38:21
  down the road,
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: but the climate's perfect,
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: the terroir is perfect,
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: their farming practices are perfect.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have that here.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:30
  There's no way of Singapore sustaining itself through,
• 38:34
  you know,
• 38:34
  the land that it has.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's impossible.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what about fishing?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Fishing, but it's warm water fish.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not, again, it's not the quality always that's desired, right?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, if you've got an option between a Japanese...
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: or Japan area caught fish,
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: super cold waters,
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: perfect storage techniques,
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: perfect killing techniques,
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: versus warm water fish that isn't handled very well,
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: not killed properly,
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: and just gets chucked on a slab of dirty ice somewhere.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: What's your choice gonna be as a chef, let alone a consumer?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: But if those things were improved, maybe.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because, I mean, there is... Still warm water.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you could still... There are still good fish in warm water.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Julie's from Colombia.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: From the coast of Colombia, it's tropical and warm.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: The climate's probably not different.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay,
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: so...
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Juliana,
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: correct me if I'm wrong,
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: but in Colombia,
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: don't you have the...
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: You actually have the two currents that meet?
• 39:46
  No,
• 39:46
  no,
• 39:47
  that's...
• 39:47
  And you've got the cold water currents and the warm water.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: On the Pacific side.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, they produce some of the...
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's the Pacific side.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: The Pacific side, yes.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I guess... Yeah, the Atlantic is the Atlantic, I think.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the Pacific, you do have access to different things.
• 40:02
  But still,
• 40:02
  like on the coast of,
• 40:04
  you know,
• 40:05
  Caribbean coast,
• 40:06
  it's more and more.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: speaking of Colombia,
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how that happened,
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: but you mentioned Colombia in the book.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, fuck.
• 40:16
  actually i didn't pick up that segue but nice segue i mean i'm
• 40:22
  glad you got your
• 40:24
  your devices back at least yes yeah it's hilarious so in the
• 40:29
  book and i love these
• 40:30
  like there's these like comic comic book style like history
• 40:34
  yeah or graphic novel
• 40:35
  style like history uh of of of your past and like one of one of
• 40:41
  the events is like
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: you're in medellin and uh
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: you get your phone robbed or is that right?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, uh, you and your wife.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: So me and my wife, my now wife.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 40:53
  So we were going to a food market or I thought I was taking a
• 40:57
  food market and you know,
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think we had like,
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think I took like 20 bucks worth of,
• 41:03
  colombian money on me and we left our phones at home and like
• 41:08
  so we had nothing and
• 41:10
  you know we're walking up this street where i'm like yeah i'm
• 41:13
  pretty sure we got
• 41:14
  this way uh and saw a couple of kids roll up and i'm just like
• 41:18
  i said to my wife
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: i'm like oh here we go this is uh
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked about this a lot.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's finally happening.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it happened.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: They pulled knives on us.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: They separated us.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: They told us to hand over everything because we didn't have anything.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think they got super frustrated.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next thing we know, there's this guy rolling out.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, like, but he could see it was like I emptied my pockets.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I didn't have anything.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: There was really nothing to give.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then next thing, we'd just been separated.
• 41:54
  My wife was maybe five meters away from me and I was like
• 41:58
  getting to the point
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: where I'm like,
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 42:01
  something's going to give because if they go any further or
• 42:04
  something happens,
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: it's,
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: there's no coming back.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's going to be fight or flight in about three seconds.
• 42:11
  And before I knew it,
• 42:12
  this guy rolls out of the bushes and starts shooting.
• 42:18
  at us i saw them and no it's like it's like community police oh
• 42:27
  my god you know
• 42:30
  right yeah that's a nice name for it yeah it's like community
• 42:35
  police it's the
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: neighborhood watch kind of thing like but it's like the armed okay yeah
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they just started shooting.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: And me and my wife are like, what's going on?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is nuts.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: And these guys just fled.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: And anyway,
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: then this car pulls up,
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: this taxi,
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: this lady gets out of it,
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: literally hunts down one of these kids.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: collars him, brings him back and was like, give them their phones back.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, he pulls out this stack of phones.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: So he's obviously been doing it a while.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we're just like, they're not our phones.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want their phones.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: They're not our phones.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: We don't need them.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: Just go.
• 43:17
  And anyway,
• 43:17
  they put us in a taxi and we went back to the hostel where we
• 43:22
  were staying.
• 43:23
  And there was a football game,
• 43:24
  like literally down the road from where we were staying.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so we popped over to a bar because we were,
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: especially the missus,
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: was pretty shaken by the whole thing,
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: drinking tequilas.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then they shut the doors.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what are you shutting the doors for?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she's already panicking, right?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: She's already been upset.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: What are you shutting the doors for?
• 43:43
  She's like,
• 43:43
  the football game's just finished and we don't know the result yet.
• 43:46
  And so we're just locking everything up so no one trashes the
• 43:50
  place on their way through.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: They end up drinking a lot of tequila that night.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
• 43:58
  So...
• 43:59
  First of all,
• 44:00
  we should just clarify to everyone that that's not typical in Colombia.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 44:05
  I think you have like a rare experience that for one could
• 44:09
  happen in any place in
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: the world.
• 44:11
  It just happened to happen with you in many...
• 44:15
  We had some pretty amazing experiences.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: We backpacked around.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: We were in Colombia for over a month.
• 44:20
  And,
• 44:21
  you know,
• 44:21
  we were up in...
• 44:23
  We went to...
• 44:24
  Stayed in this town called Turbo.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: And on the way up to the capital Ghana, which is on the Panama border.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we,
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: we got,
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: we got told,
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Hey,
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: if no one's in town,
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: get back on the boat and come straight back.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're like, oh, you know, we'll go out, we'll see.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, the little village is buzzing with life.
• 44:48
  You know,
• 44:49
  we end up getting a mani-pedi together,
• 44:51
  drinking beers on the balcony,
• 44:52
  eating stuff.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: And there was this beautiful rainforest walk into this natural spring.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we did have some really amazing times in Colombia.
• 45:02
  So that,
• 45:02
  I mean,
• 45:03
  obviously,
• 45:04
  the dramatic side of it is important for the...
• 45:07
  For the reasons in the book and for stories,
• 45:10
  but yeah,
• 45:10
  we had an amazing time.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: We spent four months in South America.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: yeah,
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: and I don't know why tourism is so focused on,
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: I hear everyone going to Medellin and it's not,
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: it's fine,
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: but there are so many other places to go in.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe, maybe you avoid or you reduce the risk of time.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we crossed from Venezuela to Santa Marta.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:45
  And then we went to Cartagena and then we went up to Turbo to
• 45:49
  Capogana and then all
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: the way back down to Medellin.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's why.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then because of what happened in Medellin,
• 45:55
  we didn't go to Bogota because we wanted to stay away from the
• 45:59
  big cities.
• 46:01
  And so we went across to,
• 46:04
  I can't remember,
• 46:05
  it's like a really big port city.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: On the Caribbean?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: Pacific?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, on the west coast, on the Cali side.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: Buenaventura?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Buenaventura.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then we caught a boat.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: to this, like, it's not an island, but you go up the coast a little bit.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we went and stayed there and we went surfing and,
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: we had some very interesting stories.
• 46:34
  And then we came back down to Cali and we actually trekked a volcano,
• 46:40
  which was incredible.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: I realised I get altitude sickness.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: So when we hiked up a volcano and we did the, um, what did we do?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: We did coffee plantations as well up there.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: We, we spent a month, we spent a month and everything.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: We,
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: we,
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: we saw a lot of,
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of Columbia and you know,
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: we,
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: we,
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the problem was we,
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: we weren't always on the tourist trail.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 47:21
  which meant that we did expose ourselves often enough to,
• 47:27
  you know,
• 47:28
  not great situations.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: Where else in South America did you go?
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we started off in Venezuela.
• 47:38
  So obviously I take my wife to the most dangerous city outside
• 47:41
  of a war zone.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we spent a month in Venezuela.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: Again, like...
• 47:50
  you know we we actually we had a few really cool not cool
• 47:54
  really good stories that
• 47:55
  came out of it but you know we had amazing experiences the
• 47:58
  people were amazing uh
• 48:00
  the nature's incredible the food was delicious um so we spent a
• 48:05
  month there and
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: then we went down to uh peru no ecuador yeah ecuador
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: Couldn't go to the Galapagos,
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: but we went to,
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: poor man's Galapagos and we saw the blue-footed boobies on the island.
• 48:23
  And then we went down to Peru and did all the way down and so
• 48:29
  did Cabo Blanco in Peru.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thought we were going to get murdered there.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because we got kicked.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we're saying Cabo Blanco.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know where anything is.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're on a public bus.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: And they're always like, beware of where you're getting dropped off.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: If they stop, you're going to get robbed.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, this bus is like, get off, go.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's just over there.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like...
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: We can't see anything.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can you take us to the town?
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, no.
• 49:02
  And everyone started yelling at us on the bus and was like,
• 49:05
  get off,
• 49:05
  get off,
• 49:05
  get off.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so we,
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: jumped off the bus and,
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: pitch black and there's sand dunes on every side.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's just like, go that way.
• 49:17
  and literally i pulled my pocket knife out not that it would
• 49:20
  have done much but i
• 49:22
  had my pocket knife out until we reached like this guard house
• 49:25
  which is maybe two
• 49:26
  kilometers up the road and uh and we're like where where's
• 49:31
  where's this place
• 49:32
  you're saying oh it's just behind here don't worry you're good
• 49:34
  you're good and it's
• 49:35
  like you know completely unwarranted but you know you just get
• 49:39
  get dropped in the
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: middle of nowhere and yeah we did death road in bolivia
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the mountain bike.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the mountain bike thing.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, we had a girl in the group behind us fell.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Fell.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: She fell two to three hundred metres down the cliff.
• 50:03
  and no no emergency services no our guide was the only one with
• 50:09
  rescue equipment so
• 50:10
  he had to go back up and get all sorted the the only
• 50:14
  painkillers on the whole
• 50:15
  mountain was panadol and she had to drive two or three hours
• 50:22
  back to the capital la
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: paz for for treatment
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: This was a while ago, right?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: This South America trip, at least 10 years ago?
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: This was... Yeah, this was... 2012, end of 2012.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: Things aren't quite as wild.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: That was before the peace process deal.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_03: That was before the peace process deal in Colombia.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: Which was 2016, so...
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it was before, who was it, Che Guevara?
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: What's his name?
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Who's the dictator in Venezuela?
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, Chavez.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: Chavez, before he passed away.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like just as he was finishing.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it was all pretty turbulent.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, with all the politics, current politics.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: but I mean,
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: I,
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: I backpacked around South America in like 2005,
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: it was,
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: it was kind of the same thing.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's,
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: but it's like now it's not,
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: even though like politically it's way more charged,
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think than it was then.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think it's much harder to have those kinds of wild experiences.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, like going off the road and off road in Peru and,
• 51:49
  there's you know some of these like beautiful mountains like
• 51:52
  rainbow mountain
• 51:53
  something like 10 years ago didn't even wasn't on like any
• 51:58
  anyone's radar is now
• 51:59
  just like a line of buses and people and yeah it's i mean it's
• 52:04
  weird it's like in i
• 52:05
  don't know things are a little more like sanitary and uh in
• 52:10
  terms of like tourist
• 52:11
  amenities i think now but yeah i think internet and phone
• 52:17
  camera phones are
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's sort of done a lot of that damage, hasn't it?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, fucking Instagram.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: You can protect yourself a lot and,
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 52:25
  people send a photo and it becomes the hottest new thing and
• 52:29
  gets turbocharged into normalness.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: While we're still on the kind of topic of travel,
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: you did,
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: as a cook,
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: not just as a,
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: traveling adventurer or whatever,
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: you traveled quite a bit.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, you...
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, a lot of your influences are from outside Australia.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: you,
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: we mentioned Noma,
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: you cooked where else in,
• 52:58
  in,
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: in London at,
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: didn't you,
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: didn't I?
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: With, uh, St.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: John Brett, St.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: John Brett of mine and Echebari in Spain.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Echebari.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: I want to just stop there for a minute because
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: What was your experience there?
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: How long were you there for one?
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it was off the back of Noma.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: One of the guys that I was working with,
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: a guy called Yarnik,
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: was like,
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: you should go check out this place.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's barbecue.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't have anything else to do at that time.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was looking for the next place to go.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you know what?
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, barbecue.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: And in my mind, I'm like, you know, how good can it be, right?
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's barbecue.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 53:40
  I've never really been to a restaurant or a barbecue restaurant
• 53:44
  that was a proper restaurant.
• 53:48
  And so going there,
• 53:50
  going there,
• 53:50
  I was kind of like,
• 53:51
  oh,
• 53:52
  look,
• 53:52
  you know,
• 53:54
  what's it all about?
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see what it's all about.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: And finally got in and I went there and was just absolutely blown away.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was like,
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: the produce that they get,
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: the way they look after it,
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: the way they store it,
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: their hospitality was like absolutely incredible.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: their technique when they start cooking,
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realise you could have technique.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: Technique and barbecue couldn't be...
• 54:25
  spoken about at the same time so you know being able to see
• 54:29
  that firsthand was
• 54:31
  really the game changer for me with how it all worked so i
• 54:36
  think what happened is i
• 54:37
  went for three months to answer your question went for three
• 54:41
  months stayed for
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: stayed for five months um before leaving so
• 54:49
  Was that the moment,
• 54:50
  that experience that you had some more direction towards burn-ins?
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, 100%.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love everything about cooking with wood,
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: how he goes about it,
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: understanding that there's techniques,
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: understanding that you could run a proper restaurant with barbecue.
• 55:13
  That was the place where it went,
• 55:14
  oh,
• 55:14
  you can run a proper restaurant with barbecue.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so then going forward a little bit,
• 55:23
  going to London and being involved with all the pop-ups with
• 55:26
  the Young Turks and,
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: James Lowe's and Isaac and the Clove Club guys,
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was always put on the barbecue.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's always, you know, sort of became the thing that I was doing.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's sort of reinforced that idea and was like,
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: actually,
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can do this and drive it forward.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's when you start doing the pop-ups in London.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so on the back of that,
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think 2012,
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: the summer of 2012 in the UK,
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: Nuno Mendez's mate,
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Ian,
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: was like,
• 56:06
  I want to do a barbecue in my railway art where we do our
• 56:11
  coffee roasting.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so Nuno was like, oh, you should speak to this guy.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so we chatted and,
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 56:18
  one thing led to another and he thought he was getting a couple
• 56:20
  of gas grills and a
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: bit of merguez.
• 56:23
  And we built these four-ton fuel cavity wood burning oven and
• 56:27
  these massive
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: elevation grills in his courtyard.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's where it all kicked off.
• 56:35
  What I found interesting,
• 56:36
  and I found this thing a lot in your book,
• 56:40
  but also through Rechibari,
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: is how personalized the grills are,
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: there's not,
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: there's not like one standard,
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: it's not like Argentina where it's,
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: it's like all the grills kind of look the same or,
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 56:55
  even though there's very different variations for cooking
• 56:58
  different things,
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: but it's,
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: it's so personalized to who you are and what you want to cook and,
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: there's not just like one element that you need to build.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just,
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: everything's just this like handmade pre like your own design,
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: everything that's kind of in your head,
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: putting it together thing.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm going off on a weird tangent.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 57:30
  No,
• 57:30
  look,
• 57:31
  I,
• 57:31
  I think,
• 57:32
  you know,
• 57:32
  when we,
• 57:33
  when we built the first set of ovens,
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was trying to model it on,
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: the reasons why Echibari had ovens,
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: which is primarily to burn coals.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: But then what I,
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: one of the things I really enjoyed while I was there is,
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: when you'd cook like baby goat in the oven or,
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: for family meal,
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: we would have to cook or we would not have to,
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: but we would cook like lasagnas and bake them in the cold oven.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, sort of, and then you go work at St.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: John where they do these slow roasted suckling pigs, right?
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: In deck ovens.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: When you figure out, oh, what did I really love doing?
• 58:23
  I enjoyed like I love doing the slow roasting of the animals
• 58:29
  and I love doing like
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: slow bake dishes that were beautiful.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: So actually I need it to not just burn wood.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: I have to have it to be able to do this.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's,
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: there's nothing on the market where you can just be like,
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: let's tick this box and grab one of these.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was really – it did need to be personalized.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: And because it was freeform and not built into a preexisting structure,
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: we had to figure it out and we had to have a crack at making it.
• 59:00
  So it was very personalized because there were certain things
• 59:04
  we wanted to do with
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: it that hadn't been done before.
• 59:09
  Yeah,
• 59:09
  I think what I was getting at was there's not really like a
• 59:12
  replicable setup.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: for a modern barbecue restaurant,
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: it's so adapted to your specific building,
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: your specific,
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: part of the world or,
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: or whatever.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not,
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: it's not just like a French kitchen where it's like,
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: you need a,
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: a line of,
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: burners and whatever.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, but it's, it's cool.
• 59:39
  And I think it may,
• 59:40
  it gives such individuality to,
• 59:42
  to all these kitchens,
• 59:43
  you know,
• 59:44
  that,
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's cool.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: And they all look different.
• 59:48
  So when you went to Singapore,
• 59:51
  the kitchen setup was much different,
• 59:52
  right?
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a tiny little place in Chinatown, like much smaller.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, you know,
• 1:00:00
  1300 1400 square foot you know we had 18 counter seats we had
• 1:00:05
  this tiny little
• 1:00:06
  kitchen tiny little cool room and that was it right and so you
• 1:00:12
  know we went from
• 1:00:13
  doing these big you know 400 person outdoor barbecues to this
• 1:00:19
  tiny little you know
• 1:00:20
  2 to 3 maybe 4 person like meals that just were extremely
• 1:00:28
  different to what we were
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: used to
• 1:00:31
  So,
• 1:00:32
  you know,
• 1:00:32
  there's a fair bit of,
• 1:00:33
  you know,
• 1:00:34
  we weren't cooking whole turbots anymore.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: We couldn't sell, like, all these huge steaks and stuff like that.
• 1:00:39
  So we needed to sort of listen to the customer a lot about how
• 1:00:44
  they wanted to use
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: the space and what we needed to do for them to make it work.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: But you didn't want to do yakitori, right?
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that was one of the things...
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: PA told me to, like, it was just like, yeah.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: That was a big thing.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: So one of my now partners was like,
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: went to,
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: still goes to Japan a lot and loves Japan.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, his thing was, you know, I want to bring Yakitori to...
• 1:01:13
  singapore and you know that their idea was i'll do yakitori and
• 1:01:18
  you know a few
• 1:01:19
  other things and i came along and was like well no this is what
• 1:01:22
  i do and he was
• 1:01:23
  like well could we just put like a little bit of yakitori in
• 1:01:26
  there and and so i was
• 1:01:28
  like i was like you know what i don't know anything about
• 1:01:32
  yakitori i'd never been
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: to japan at that stage and
• 1:01:35
  But I knew enough to know that they've been perfecting this art
• 1:01:39
  for a long,
• 1:01:40
  long,
• 1:01:40
  long time.
• 1:01:41
  There was a lot of skill,
• 1:01:42
  a lot of technique and a lot of mastery behind it.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: Stuff that I had none of, like 0%.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, I'm not an imposter.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to do something that I have no idea about.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: Stick to what I know.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you want it, take it.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't want it, we can part ways.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it worked out.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: But the new space is massive, from what I understand.
• 1:02:06
  It's like a barbecue wonderland of equipment and spaces and
• 1:02:14
  grills and wood and smoke.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty recent, right?
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: When you hired PA, it was just starting the new space?
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we would have been maybe a year old.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:02:31
  a year old when we when we set off on this expedition and so
• 1:02:36
  yeah we went it's you
• 1:02:37
  know probably 10 times bigger than the old space including the
• 1:02:41
  outside and you know
• 1:02:42
  we've got the bakery with the wood-fired bread oven we've got
• 1:02:45
  the main restaurant
• 1:02:47
  uh with the oven and grills then we've got the private room
• 1:02:50
  where you know we we
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: built a new oven which is a double-sided oven so it's like
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of having one side with doors, we've got two sides with doors.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so you can use both sides.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: Then we've got smaller grill set up, full kitchen.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then we've just renovated our bar.
• 1:03:12
  We put in a bar kitchen specifically with them with a baby oven
• 1:03:16
  and a baby grill.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then we inherited,
• 1:03:22
  Francis Maumann came to Singapore a couple of years ago and he
• 1:03:28
  was looking to
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: rehome his Maumann grill that he used while he was in Singapore.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so we bought that and had a lot of fun playing with that.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we recently bought an American offset.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 1:03:48
  we're building up the toys and all the different things of
• 1:03:52
  barbecue and just
• 1:03:54
  enjoying experimenting and seeing how other things work and
• 1:03:58
  what the benefits are
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: and why people love them,
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: which is so exciting.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_00: One day I'll get there.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: One day.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: All right, man.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: Don't make it too long.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: My trips to Asia are pretty infrequent, but one day I'll get there.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: One day.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you based?
• 1:04:17
  I'm in New York,
• 1:04:18
  but I,
• 1:04:18
  you know,
• 1:04:18
  a lot of mostly in South America for work too.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: And Giuliana, you're in Columbia.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_03: No, I am in Los Angeles.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: Safe from the fires?
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:39
  I mean,
• 1:04:39
  in comparison with the people that were,
• 1:04:43
  you know,
• 1:04:44
  directly affected for sure.
• 1:04:48
  it's just yeah I mean it's intense everything that comes with
• 1:04:53
  that and the
• 1:04:56
  aftermath which is still but yeah I mean I'm safe their quality
• 1:05:03
  is a concern
• 1:05:06
  because apparently even when is it green good or yellow
• 1:05:12
  moderate apparently it's
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_03: not
• 1:05:15
  true because all the,
• 1:05:17
  you know,
• 1:05:18
  residuals that these machines don't detect.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I think they have to come up with new technique to be more accurate.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the main concern in the aftermath is like how,
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_03: but I mean,
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: yes,
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_03: so far I can literally see,
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_03: yes,
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm saying.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:05:40
  I like the love,
• 1:05:41
  you know,
• 1:05:42
  let's talk about fire in different versions of it.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: Different, yeah.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_03: Different manifestations.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's all connected.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's all connected.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_03: I have a question about fine dining.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: If you have your own definition of fine dining,
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_03: or if you can think about one in this conversation.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_01: Fine dining.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think the way I think about fine dining is that it's,
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_01: the epitome of product,
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_01: technique,
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: service,
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: and overindulgence.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I,
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think,
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: especially when you go to like three stars and stuff,
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: it's like you might be able to find similar products.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_01: You might be able to find similar techniques and technical abilities.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: And service,
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: service can be,
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:06:53
  that extra level just because they've got so many staff and
• 1:06:56
  really the best of the best.
• 1:06:58
  But the big thing is with especially the free-star fine dining
• 1:07:02
  is that it's this
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: overindulgence of too much choice,
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: too much decadence and too much,
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_01: maybe not the right word or the words,
• 1:07:13
  but it's that excess of food that you never thought you wanted
• 1:07:22
  and I think that's
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: why it's so exciting for me.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Dave, it was great speaking with you.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for your time, guys.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_03: What time is it there?
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_03: We are in extreme.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's 10 past 11.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, shit.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: Go to bed, man.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_01: We've still got a Friday night service going on.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, shit.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not quite yet.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: Not quite yet.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: What time do you usually get out?
• 1:07:55
  uh usually never before midnight okay and i'm i'm generally the
• 1:08:00
  first one out all
• 1:08:01
  right well we won't keep you too long so all right thanks man
• 1:08:05
  really appreciate it
• 1:08:07
  thank you very much for your time guys it was lovely talking to
• 1:08:09
  you guys thank you
• 1:08:11
  everyone for listening i hope you enjoyed that interview with
• 1:08:14
  dave paint of burnt
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_00: ends in singapore um
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't subscribed to the newsletter, just go to neworder.com.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_00: Check us out there.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of interesting content.
• 1:08:28
  And a big thank you to my friend Pat Buzzard for providing the
• 1:08:32
  music to the show.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_00: Find out more about Pat at patbuzzard.com.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: Peace.