Latest / KGGD - On Demand / Snapshot Testimony Podcast - Clinging To Hope In Christ After Infant Loss [Bonus Episode]

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Snapshot Testimony Podcast - Clinging To Hope In Christ After Infant Loss [Bonus Episode] · KGGD - On Demand

• 0:00
  S1: Welcome to a special bonus episode of the Snapshot Testimony Podcast.
• 0:04
  S1: I'm your host, Ali Domercant. In this podcast, I ask
• 0:07
  S1: my guests to share one pivotal moment that shaped their
• 0:10
  S1: faith in Christ. In this episode, you're going to meet
• 0:13
  S1: Josh and Dana, married for almost seven years. They're clinging
• 0:18
  S1: to Jesus as they've faced unimaginable tragedy the loss of
• 0:23
  S1: two newborn sons. Judah lived just a couple of hours
• 0:27
  S1: before the Lord took him home. Four years later, their
• 0:31
  S1: second son, Levi, was born perfectly healthy, yet passed away
• 0:36
  S1: without medical explanation just days after coming home from the hospital.
• 0:40
  S1: This episode's release date June 8th, 2025, marks one year
• 0:45
  S1: since Levi's death. Josh and Dana wanted to share their
• 0:49
  S1: story to honor the lives of their boys, who've made
• 0:52
  S1: a profound impact even though their time on Earth was
• 0:55
  S1: so brief. They also want to share the hope they've
• 0:58
  S1: found in Christ with others going through deep, deep pain.
• 1:03
  S1: This is a tough episode, but I'm honored that they've
• 1:06
  S1: entrusted me with something so sacred. Here's a snapshot testimony
• 1:10
  S1: from Josh and Dana. How did the two of you meet?
• 1:21
  S1: And I think it's best to start with the with
• 1:24
  S1: the woman for this for this question. Dana, how did
• 1:27
  S1: you and Josh meet?
• 1:29
  S2: So, yeah, this takes us back to several several years ago. Um,
• 1:34
  S2: Josh went to college with one of my older sisters. Um,
• 1:39
  S2: they became really good friends. And, um, my sister had mentioned, um,
• 1:46
  S2: Josh to me because her and I are super close.
• 1:48
  S2: And so, um, we just started a phone friendship, um,
• 1:54
  S2: and kind of just stayed in touch throughout the years. Um,
• 1:59
  S2: and then I was actually wrapping up my MBA several
• 2:03
  S2: years ago. Um, and I knew Josh lived in the
• 2:07
  S2: Chicago area. Um, I was actually in Portland, Oregon. Um,
• 2:11
  S2: and I was just ready for something new, ready to
• 2:14
  S2: leave of the Portland city area and go to a
• 2:18
  S2: bigger city. Um, our paths crossed and started dating, and
• 2:23
  S2: here we are.
• 2:24
  S1: That's awesome. Uh, Josh, how quickly did you know that
• 2:28
  S1: Dana was going to be your wife? How quickly did
• 2:30
  S1: you make that realization?
• 2:33
  S3: I knew something was special about her very early on,
• 2:35
  S3: and I think it was both when we were both
• 2:37
  S3: in a good position where where we wanted to kind
• 2:40
  S3: of reach out and where I reached out to her,
• 2:42
  S3: I could just tell something was completely different about her.
• 2:44
  S3: And the biggest attraction for me, of course, was her faith.
• 2:47
  S3: Of course, many other aspects as well. But I knew
• 2:51
  S3: that she was a hard find, a unique find, and
• 2:54
  S3: so I wanted to make sure she was my find.
• 2:55
  S3: And so from there, it all kind of worked out
• 2:58
  S3: and pulled her into Illinois a little bit. She was
• 3:01
  S3: ready to move and it was kind of the perfect storm.
• 3:03
  S3: And the rest is history.
• 3:05
  S1: Yeah. Now married. How many years?
• 3:08
  S2: Almost seven in November.
• 3:10
  S1: Almost seven. So, Dana, did you know right away that
• 3:14
  S1: you wanted to have children? Was that a desire of
• 3:16
  S1: your heart from the very beginning?
• 3:18
  S2: Yes, definitely. I think that was a conversation that occurred
• 3:22
  S2: even before marriage, when we were, you know, dating, engaged. Um,
• 3:27
  S2: we shared that mutual desire of saying we want children. Um,
• 3:32
  S2: we want that blessing. Um, I actually come from a
• 3:36
  S2: very big family where six siblings.
• 3:38
  S1: Wow.
• 3:39
  S2: So I, you know, I have that special sense of family,
• 3:46
  S2: and I know what that is. I know what it
• 3:48
  S2: is to have lots of kids around. Sure.
• 3:52
  S1: Josh, what about you? Did you know immediately like this
• 3:56
  S1: is we want. We want children.
• 3:58
  S3: Yeah, I knew I wanted children right away. And the
• 4:01
  S3: more I got to know Dana, the more I knew
• 4:02
  S3: it was a very safe thing to do with both
• 4:06
  S3: of us being, you know, focusing on God, focusing on
• 4:08
  S3: the faith, very similar personalities, which is kind of interesting
• 4:12
  S3: when we go through those, you know, those those marriage
• 4:14
  S3: books and things like that. We realized that we were, uh,
• 4:17
  S3: very closely linked. Kids were always part of our our plan.
• 4:21
  S3: We both wanted kids for, for a long time. And
• 4:24
  S3: I grew up with two older brothers, and we always
• 4:26
  S3: had many friends running around the house. So I felt like, um,
• 4:30
  S3: if God wanted to bless us with those, uh, with
• 4:32
  S3: 1 or 2 or maybe three kids, then we would
• 4:34
  S3: both be ready to hit the ground running.
• 4:37
  S1: Dana, talk a little bit about, um, what that journey
• 4:40
  S1: was like for you of, you know, some of the
• 4:44
  S1: challenges of even getting pregnant. I mean, for, for for
• 4:48
  S1: so many women, the, you know, the the idea is that, okay,
• 4:52
  S1: I'm ready and it happens, but your journey was was
• 4:57
  S1: a little bit more difficult.
• 4:59
  S2: Yeah. Um. You're right, Ali, that, um, as women, we're like,
• 5:05
  S2: when we're ready, we're like, oh, it's going to happen today. Yeah. Um, and, um,
• 5:11
  S2: it's not quite like that. And I think that we
• 5:15
  S2: learned in different ways that it wasn't like that. It
• 5:19
  S2: wasn't our story. Um, it wasn't our story. It took
• 5:24
  S2: a bit longer than what we definitely expected. Um, you know,
• 5:31
  S2: and we went through some losses, too. Um, and so
• 5:37
  S2: the journey hasn't been easy. You know, we go from
• 5:41
  S2: the desires, the the planning, the the dreaming, you know,
• 5:46
  S2: with Josh, um, and then going to reality, um, which
• 5:52
  S2: has taken a whole different story. Yeah.
• 5:56
  S1: Now, when you. When you became pregnant with your son Judah. Um,
• 6:02
  S1: take me to that. The the moment when you when
• 6:05
  S1: you first realized that that we're expecting. Um. What was
• 6:09
  S1: that like?
• 6:09
  S2: Yeah. No, um, excitement. I mean, like, I, we were
• 6:16
  S2: looking at the pregnancy test, the take home. So it
• 6:19
  S2: was just like those first glimpses of, like, is there.
• 6:23
  S2: Is there a baby? Am I pregnant? Yeah. Just a
• 6:27
  S2: lot of excitement. Um, and then when we found out
• 6:32
  S2: we were having a boy, it was just like we're
• 6:35
  S2: having a boy. We're. We're just so ecstatic. Um, you know,
• 6:41
  S2: Josh comes from all boys in his family. Um, and so,
• 6:46
  S2: you know, Josh was super, ultra excited, uh, that thought
• 6:52
  S2: we were starting off the family with a boy. Yeah. Um,
• 6:55
  S2: so it was just very special time. Um, I mean,
• 6:59
  S2: we immediately started, um, brainstorming on names and just visualizing
• 7:05
  S2: how life was going to look like with Judah.
• 7:09
  S1: Uh, and Josh, at what point in the pregnancy did
• 7:14
  S1: you become aware that there was any sort of issue
• 7:17
  S1: or concern?
• 7:19
  S3: Yeah. So when when Dana was at the house and so, um,
• 7:23
  S3: she was she was at the house. And at that
• 7:27
  S3: point she actually went into work that day. But before that,
• 7:29
  S3: she had a lot of heavy cramping, and she started
• 7:32
  S3: to feel a little bit upset in there. And she
• 7:35
  S3: kind of played it off because she's a strong, strong lady.
• 7:37
  S3: And she ended up going into work. And then she
• 7:40
  S3: started to text me saying, hey, something doesn't necessarily feel right.
• 7:43
  S3: I'm starting to, you know, get different types of cramping.
• 7:48
  S3: And when she, you know, clearly. So she started to
• 7:50
  S3: have some signs of some trouble taking place. And so
• 7:55
  S3: when I started to hear this would be a text,
• 7:56
  S3: I said I wouldn't wait on this, I wouldn't. And
• 8:00
  S3: we and we analyzed everything. What kind of food did
• 8:02
  S3: we have yesterday? What kind? You know, you're looking at
• 8:04
  S3: every other possible way. And she and she was describing
• 8:07
  S3: this and I said, no, I think we need to.
• 8:09
  S3: You either come home right away and we go into
• 8:11
  S3: the ER or you go into the ER, whatever works best.
• 8:14
  S3: We need to figure this out. It doesn't sound at
• 8:16
  S3: least what I've read about. Right. So again that how
• 8:19
  S3: much you know, does a husband know in terms of
• 8:22
  S3: the feelings and things like that. Right. We can't correlate
• 8:24
  S3: but but at least what we were reading and and
• 8:26
  S3: so forth. So anyways, we ended up going into the
• 8:28
  S3: hospital that was close by during this was during Covid period.
• 8:32
  S3: So they weren't letting um, men go in as they
• 8:36
  S3: weren't considered, unfortunately, essential in the pregnancy process. And so
• 8:40
  S3: I was staying in the car. She went inside. And so, um,
• 8:45
  S3: he was she was texting me saying the nurse came
• 8:49
  S3: in and they said, I must be going through a miscarriage.
• 8:53
  S3: You know, it was almost to 20 weeks. And so
• 8:56
  S3: once they kind of determined that whatever we're having, um,
• 9:00
  S3: would most likely not make it, that's when they allowed
• 9:02
  S3: me to to go in. From there, we ended up
• 9:07
  S3: going into another room, and then they did a lot
• 9:09
  S3: of testing, all that kind of stuff. And, um, they
• 9:12
  S3: indicated that it must have been his. His foot must
• 9:15
  S3: have breached the cervix area, which brought her into labor
• 9:19
  S3: quicker than she would like to be in. Yeah. Um,
• 9:22
  S3: so at that point, through many, you know, ten, 12
• 9:25
  S3: hours later, we were in there. They were trying to
• 9:27
  S3: do a lot of different procedures to maybe, possibly save
• 9:29
  S3: the baby because he was actually alive, which was a
• 9:33
  S3: miracle at that point. There wasn't anything wrong with his body. Um,
• 9:38
  S3: at that point, we were transferred to other hospitals, and
• 9:42
  S3: then they allowed my parents to come up as well
• 9:44
  S3: during Covid period to see because of the extraordinary circumstance
• 9:48
  S3: that he was going to be born. At that point
• 9:51
  S3: we were in and I were praying and talking and
• 9:53
  S3: so forth. We said, okay. We started to come up
• 9:54
  S3: with names for for boys and girls, right?
• 9:57
  S1: Yeah.
• 9:57
  S3: And so, you know, we started circling around at this
• 9:59
  S3: point once we learned that he wasn't going to make it. Um,
• 10:05
  S3: we said, you know, she said, well, how about Judah?
• 10:07
  S3: And I really didn't like the name Judah because it
• 10:09
  S3: was too close to Judas. I was like, yeah, I
• 10:11
  S3: don't like it. It's too close. Um, but again, Judah
• 10:14
  S3: being the, you know, the country in which most leaders,
• 10:16
  S3: biblical leaders came from, of course, the the, the tribes
• 10:20
  S3: as well. Um, we said, sure, let's let's do that.
• 10:22
  S3: And so he actually ended up coming out alive, moving up.
• 10:29
  S3: He was with us for about 2.5 hours or so
• 10:32
  S3: during that time. My parents were there. I come from
• 10:34
  S3: a singing family, so a lot of us. So at
• 10:37
  S3: that point, my parents were around and we had many
• 10:39
  S3: different songs that we wanted to sing while Judah was there.
• 10:43
  S3: One of them was it is well within our soul,
• 10:45
  S3: knowing that the end Could be any minute. Could be
• 10:50
  S3: any hour. The nurses were amazed. They would come back
• 10:53
  S3: every 20 minutes. They couldn't believe he was still alive.
• 10:57
  S3: His heartbeat was still alive because that defied science. He
• 11:00
  S3: wasn't supposed to be born alive, and he wasn't supposed
• 11:02
  S3: to be living after that. Um, and so we held them.
• 11:06
  S3: The grandparents were able to. His grandparents were able to
• 11:09
  S3: meet him. Um, during the Covid period, we sang many
• 11:12
  S3: different songs. We had brought a lot of scripture out,
• 11:15
  S3: started talking about, um, you know, there's a few verses
• 11:17
  S3: in there that we actually put on his tombstone later. Um,
• 11:21
  S3: but one was talking about, you know, where Jesus said,
• 11:25
  S3: don't hinder the children for let them come to the
• 11:28
  S3: kingdom of heaven, let them come to us. And that
• 11:31
  S3: was one we held on to. And there was a
• 11:33
  S3: chaplain there with us that we asked many questions to.
• 11:36
  S3: And one of them was, how do we know if
• 11:38
  S3: our children are going to go to heaven or not?
• 11:40
  S3: You know, and and the chaplain at that point said, well,
• 11:44
  S3: your children never had a chance to choose. Shoes. And
• 11:46
  S3: so at this point, we thought, boy, did Judah find
• 11:49
  S3: a shortcut to heaven or what? You're born quickly. You're
• 11:55
  S3: only with family. You're only around songs, and then you
• 11:58
  S3: go to heaven. There was no pain. There was no
• 12:00
  S3: suffering for him in terms of, you know, he never
• 12:03
  S3: had to worry about finding the perfect soulmate. He never
• 12:06
  S3: had to worry about getting, you know, good grades in college.
• 12:10
  S3: He never worried about finances. He never had to worry
• 12:12
  S3: about illness. He never had to worry about any of
• 12:14
  S3: these things. And so, in a way, you can look
• 12:16
  S3: at that as a blessing for him. Clearly, we wish
• 12:18
  S3: we had much more time with him, and that wasn't
• 12:20
  S3: the picture or what we had, but that was kind
• 12:23
  S3: of what. And then of course, soon later, um, after
• 12:27
  S3: we left the hospital and again, at that point, it
• 12:30
  S3: would seem like our heart was kind of ripped out
• 12:31
  S3: of our, you know, chest. And you could just, you know,
• 12:36
  S3: you get that whiplash of what did we just go through?
• 12:38
  S3: What is this? What did this really happen? Was this
• 12:40
  S3: a dream? Like, how could something like this happen and
• 12:46
  S3: be with such a small statistic of people that have
• 12:49
  S3: had born children pass in front of them. Um, which
• 12:53
  S3: they consider that through science and doctors is considered the
• 12:56
  S3: hardest emotional loss on earth. Is losing a child more
• 12:59
  S3: than losing a spouse or losing. You even call that
• 13:02
  S3: a lot of times worse than terminal illness in terms
• 13:05
  S3: of what a person goes through, because it's your own kin.
• 13:07
  S3: It's not yourself where you feel you might have lived
• 13:10
  S3: a longer life, or you might have lived to a
• 13:13
  S3: full potential. So the song that came on after we left, we,
• 13:16
  S3: the first song we put on. Do you remember the
• 13:18
  S3: name of that song, honey?
• 13:19
  S2: I want to say it's going to be okay.
• 13:22
  S3: Yeah, it's called Going to Be okay. It's a Christian song. Yeah,
• 13:26
  S3: you might have had her on this podcast.
• 13:28
  S2: But Tasha Layton.
• 13:30
  S1: Oh yeah, I know the song you're talking about, Dana,
• 13:35
  S1: as you started to grapple with delivering him and he
• 13:39
  S1: you get a couple hours with him, but with each
• 13:42
  S1: passing moment, you you know that you you're only going
• 13:46
  S1: to get a little bit of time. How did you
• 13:48
  S1: even begin to process that?
• 13:52
  S2: Yeah. Um, I mean. Because it was so unexpected. I
• 14:00
  S2: don't even think that there was any such preparation.
• 14:04
  S1: Sure.
• 14:05
  S2: Um, besides saying God help us. Yeah. Um, you know,
• 14:10
  S2: reaching out to family and say, pray for us. Pray
• 14:15
  S2: for a miracle. Um, now, you know, when we were
• 14:22
  S2: having some honest conversations with the medical team and realizing
• 14:27
  S2: that there was nothing that could be done for Judah,
• 14:33
  S2: it was one of those feelings of, are we going
• 14:37
  S2: to be able to hold them? Are we, you know,
• 14:40
  S2: so you go through, you know, those thoughts like, how
• 14:43
  S2: long are we going to have with Judah? How is
• 14:46
  S2: that going to look like? And and so it was
• 14:49
  S2: just holding on to each other. And I and I
• 14:54
  S2: think that, um, you know, going back to how Josh
• 14:59
  S2: started our conversation of, uh, what we appreciated about each other.
• 15:03
  S2: And it was our faith, right? And I think those
• 15:07
  S2: values and traits of our faith were coming through this
• 15:12
  S2: hardest time. And we're showing our true colors, um, of saying,
• 15:17
  S2: who are we going to hold on to? And I
• 15:19
  S2: think it was pushing each other to the corner of saying,
• 15:22
  S2: what do we have? We have each other and we
• 15:24
  S2: have God and we have family. And that's the only
• 15:26
  S2: thing we do have. Um, and just honing into that
• 15:31
  S2: and just riding the wave as much as we could, um,
• 15:37
  S2: kind of having those honest questions with God and with
• 15:42
  S2: each other. Of saying why?
• 15:44
  S1: Yeah.
• 15:45
  S2: Why now? Why this way.
• 15:49
  S1: Now. As you're, you know, kind of reeling from just
• 15:53
  S1: the absolute heartbreak of of losing your child. It was
• 15:58
  S1: Judah was 20 weeks, uh, 20 weeks into your pregnancy. Correct?
• 16:03
  S2: Yes. Um.
• 16:04
  S1: At at what point did you even start the conversation of,
• 16:08
  S1: do we want to try for more children? I mean,
• 16:12
  S1: how long before that even became part of the conversation?
• 16:18
  S1: After after saying goodbye to Judah?
• 16:21
  S2: Yeah. Uh, several months later? Um, I mean, it was
• 16:27
  S2: definitely an emotional roller coaster of. Hey, we were prepping
• 16:33
  S2: for Judah. We were going through the ultrasounds. We were, um,
• 16:38
  S2: having our appointments. Nothing was wrong. And then we go
• 16:43
  S2: to delivering and then not having a baby after 2.5 hours.
• 16:48
  S2: So lots of quick changes that it was like what
• 16:52
  S2: did just happen? Right. Um, and, you know, it was
• 16:59
  S2: it was definitely a shock. Um, so it took some
• 17:02
  S2: time to really understand, like what just had happened and
• 17:07
  S2: then to start to think, hey, my heart is ready
• 17:12
  S2: for another baby. And, you know, kind of like carving
• 17:17
  S2: out again our desires and plans and dreams and how
• 17:21
  S2: that would look like.
• 17:22
  S3: Um, and I think one thing that we had confidence in, too.
• 17:26
  S3: We said it's such a small percentage of people in
• 17:28
  S3: the world that have something like this happen. It could
• 17:31
  S3: never happen again. There is no chance that this. So
• 17:36
  S3: this was a fluke and let's, You know, that's, you know,
• 17:40
  S3: we're ready for another another child. You know, we stuck together.
• 17:43
  S3: We we we understood how I mean, this was a
• 17:48
  S3: test of us, right? A lot a lot of families,
• 17:49
  S3: a lot of couples. They don't make it through things
• 17:52
  S3: like this together at the end. And they start questioning.
• 17:55
  S3: They start pointing fingers. They start when there's no fingers
• 17:57
  S3: to point. And for us, we looked at it and
• 18:00
  S3: we said, I mean, we were tested and we both
• 18:03
  S3: held on to each other. We both held on to
• 18:05
  S3: the faith. We both looked to God and things because
• 18:08
  S3: the doctors didn't have answers. The best medical facilities didn't
• 18:12
  S3: have answers. Our family doesn't have answers. And so at
• 18:15
  S3: that point, you're really at the mercy of God. You're
• 18:17
  S3: really at the mercy of looking to someone that knows
• 18:21
  S3: more than you do that also lost a son and
• 18:26
  S3: that that you can, you know, learn from. So it's
• 18:30
  S3: really I don't I can't I will never understand someone
• 18:34
  S3: going through this without having faith because I don't know
• 18:36
  S3: what they hold on to.
• 18:37
  S1: Yeah.
• 18:38
  S3: So that's what kept us together. And we were strong
• 18:42
  S3: and sturdy. And we said, if we can go through this,
• 18:44
  S3: we can go through anything. Yeah. And so that really
• 18:47
  S3: helped harden us to get to the next step of
• 18:50
  S3: looking at kids again.
• 18:52
  S1: And so Dana, you find out that you're that you're pregnant.
• 18:55
  S2: Yeah. Yeah. Again, um, I do want to share that
• 19:01
  S2: between Judah and, you know, Levi, who we're going to
• 19:05
  S2: be talking about next. Um, we did have two miscarriages. Okay. Um,
• 19:13
  S2: and that wasn't easy.
• 19:15
  S1: No.
• 19:16
  S2: At all. Especially that we went through such a traumatic
• 19:21
  S2: loss with Judah. Very unexpected. And so with, you know,
• 19:25
  S2: additional two miscarriages just kind of added on even more
• 19:29
  S2: layers of what's happening. Again, questioning why us.
• 19:36
  S1: Yeah.
• 19:37
  S2: You know, um. Yeah. And kind of just, I guess,
• 19:44
  S2: leaning on each other and supporting each other. So, um,
• 19:49
  S2: we pushed through. We got pregnant again, um, with Levi. Um, uh,
• 19:57
  S2: everything was perfect. All of our ultrasounds. He was very healthy, kicking, growing. Um,
• 20:08
  S2: Josh was able to participate in those appointments. Not like Judah,
• 20:13
  S2: where it was during Covid. He was not allowed. Um,
• 20:17
  S2: so this was definitely such a beautiful moment that we
• 20:20
  S2: were able to share together, um, and, um, see it firsthand,
• 20:26
  S2: both of us, you know, hear his heartbeat, then, you know,
• 20:30
  S2: have the extensive ultrasound where we could see all his
• 20:33
  S2: body parts and really see the miracle of life. Um,
• 20:38
  S2: and really learning. Truly. How much, um, you know, God
• 20:44
  S2: took into all these different layers of developing life and, um,
• 20:50
  S2: you know, giving us life. Um.
• 20:53
  S1: You carried Levi to term is my understanding.
• 20:57
  S2: Yes. Close to 40 weeks. I got induced, um, just
• 21:01
  S2: because they they wanted the everything to be perfect and delivered.
• 21:07
  S2: Everything went wonderful. Um, you know, obviously, we can't hide that.
• 21:13
  S2: I was in a lot of pain, but I think
• 21:15
  S2: that's just part of the journey of, um, you know,
• 21:19
  S2: being a mom and delivering. And, um, it was such
• 21:22
  S2: a joy. Um, you know, when we started to hear
• 21:25
  S2: his first cries and to be able to hold them
• 21:29
  S2: immediately after, um, it was just such a beautiful moment.
• 21:36
  S1: Yeah. And, Josh, you got to hold Levi. What were
• 21:41
  S1: your initial thoughts as you're as you're holding your your
• 21:45
  S1: baby boy when you. What was that moment like for you?
• 21:50
  S3: Yeah. No, I it was a beautiful moment. I, you
• 21:54
  S3: could almost because, you know, we've been on a long journey.
• 21:57
  S3: So it was for me to get to a point
• 21:59
  S3: where we actually had a baby in front of us
• 22:03
  S3: full term. I said, wow, this is, you know, Hallelujah.
• 22:05
  S3: This is a this is great. This is wonderful. And
• 22:08
  S3: of course, I'm doing the dad thing, so I'm checking. Okay.
• 22:10
  S3: Two ears, two nostrils. You got two arms. We're good,
• 22:14
  S3: you know. So I'm checking everything. And, uh, you know,
• 22:17
  S3: going through the checklist, I guess my mental checklist of. Hey,
• 22:20
  S3: he looks pretty healthy. He looks. Everything's good. He's got
• 22:23
  S3: quite the lungs screaming right at the very beginning. So
• 22:25
  S3: he'll probably be a tenor singer or something like that.
• 22:28
  S3: Who knows? And, uh, but it was great just holding
• 22:31
  S3: holding on to him and, and, you know, walking with him.
• 22:34
  S3: And of course, I was taking videos, um, of kind of,
• 22:38
  S3: you know, looking at, you know, what he's going through,
• 22:40
  S3: what he's experiencing, how he's looking at the world, how
• 22:42
  S3: he's looking at everything. So it was it was a
• 22:45
  S3: dream come true. And I just want to take a
• 22:47
  S3: step back a little bit. You know, when we talked
• 22:49
  S3: about Judah and and coming finally to a name for Judah,
• 22:52
  S3: we had the same challenge, right? With Levi. We had
• 22:55
  S3: so many names, right. 5 or 10. You know, I'm
• 22:57
  S3: throwing out names left and right, so as, so as Dana.
• 23:00
  S3: But the interesting part is that we find, I mean,
• 23:03
  S3: we're throwing out all different names. We finally settled on Levi,
• 23:07
  S3: and by the time he was, you know, by the
• 23:09
  S3: time he was here, we did not know. Even though
• 23:12
  S3: both of us have gone to church our whole life,
• 23:14
  S3: we had no clue. It took us this long to
• 23:16
  S3: get Judah and Levi's. And we're very decisive people. So
• 23:19
  S3: for us, this is unusual. And we had no idea
• 23:23
  S3: that Levi and Judah were brothers in the Bible, even
• 23:25
  S3: though we've been to church.
• 23:26
  S1: Oh.
• 23:28
  S3: So it's really the provincial hand of God saying, hey,
• 23:30
  S3: we're really creating the names, but are we really creating
• 23:32
  S3: the names?
• 23:33
  S1: Yeah.
• 23:34
  S3: You know, we think it's us, right? Um, but there's
• 23:37
  S3: a lot of God winks with Levi and Judah, but, um,
• 23:40
  S3: but yeah, it was just a special moment when he,
• 23:41
  S3: when he first came and being able to walk around
• 23:43
  S3: the room with him and just, you know, sit back
• 23:46
  S3: and say, wow, hey, he's got, you know, your nose,
• 23:49
  S3: my eyes, whatever. Right. And we kind of go through that.
• 23:51
  S3: So it was a beautiful moment.
• 23:53
  S1: Yeah. How how many days before they said, okay, you
• 23:57
  S1: can you can take Levi home?
• 24:00
  S2: Sure. Um, so Levi was born on June 1st. Um,
• 24:07
  S2: and it was in the evening that he was born. Um,
• 24:10
  S2: so we were sent home on the third afternoon. Um.
• 24:17
  S2: Very excited. Um, we were able to just leave the
• 24:21
  S2: hospital just fine. Um, just feeling really excited to be
• 24:27
  S2: a family of three. I even told Josh, hey, we're
• 24:30
  S2: the Three Musketeers. Now, um, very excited. Just being a
• 24:35
  S2: small little family. Starting a new, um, page here. Just
• 24:39
  S2: spent a lot of time here at home. Those few
• 24:42
  S2: first hours. I even remember being in our master bedroom
• 24:48
  S2: with Levi and just kind of looking out with him.
• 24:52
  S2: And I began to talk to him about creation. Um. Wow. Um, just,
• 24:59
  S2: you know, really taking the time of cherishing those moments. Um,
• 25:03
  S2: you know, we waited so long, and, you know, I
• 25:06
  S2: carried him for, you know, um, full term and and
• 25:11
  S2: so I was just so excited to see him outside
• 25:14
  S2: the womb and just be able to hold him in
• 25:17
  S2: my arms. So it was just so beautiful.
• 25:20
  S1: When you look down at his, at his little face. What, uh,
• 25:23
  S1: what did he look like? His. His hair, his eyes?
• 25:26
  S1: Did you get a sense in those first few days.
• 25:29
  S1: Who does? Who does he look like?
• 25:32
  S2: Well, probably Josh and I will argue here, but who
• 25:37
  S2: he looks like. But, um, I would say he probably
• 25:41
  S2: has a blend between our noses. And. Josh, please chime in. Um, um,
• 25:48
  S2: I know that Josh was saying that he felt like
• 25:51
  S2: his eyes were kind of more like this gray, dark,
• 25:55
  S2: deep gray.
• 25:58
  S3: Or dark blue? Dark blue and. Okay.
• 26:00
  S2: Yeah. Um, so just a blend there. So I really
• 26:07
  S2: curious how his eyes turned out. Um, you know, as
• 26:11
  S2: babies grow, they change the colors, you know? And then
• 26:15
  S2: his hair was actually dark. Um, I did start seeing
• 26:19
  S2: little ringlets on the side, so I'm naturally curly. Okay. Um,
• 26:25
  S2: so I, I think he would have had curly hair. Yeah. Um.
• 26:32
  S1: Josh, any disagreement on who he looked like or.
• 26:37
  S3: Yeah. No, I think he, uh. Yeah, I think she
• 26:39
  S3: nailed it. I think, uh, he had his lips. He
• 26:42
  S3: had my probably my neck, my forehead, my, you know,
• 26:46
  S3: those kind of. It was a nice blend. I mean, yeah,
• 26:48
  S3: he I always kind of say he had hair between, uh,
• 26:50
  S3: Johnny Cash and Elvis. Kind of combination. Very thick, dark,
• 26:54
  S3: curly hair, full head of hair, which the nurses and
• 26:58
  S3: of course, there was there was a lot more. I
• 27:01
  S3: think there was a lot more female nurses that were
• 27:02
  S3: attending to him than needed to be. But again, he
• 27:04
  S3: was he was really bringing him in and they, they, they,
• 27:09
  S3: they liked attending to him. So, uh, so I was
• 27:11
  S3: very pleased as the father with it. With my son. Yes.
• 27:14
  S1: So no. Did he follow the typical newborn pattern of,
• 27:18
  S1: you know, pretty much just sleeping and crying and eating
• 27:22
  S1: and filling his diapers?
• 27:24
  S2: Yes, yes. I want to say it was the second day. Yeah,
• 27:29
  S2: the second day. Um, I mean, he cried the whole
• 27:35
  S2: entire time, um, where he just wanted, wanted to be held. And,
• 27:41
  S2: you know, we were fine with that. Um, so. Yeah.
• 27:45
  S2: So Josh and I definitely tag team because, you know,
• 27:48
  S2: there there was times in there where I was like,
• 27:50
  S2: I was just exhausted. Yeah. Um, you know, from delivering,
• 27:55
  S2: you know, feeding. Sure. So it was this was a
• 28:00
  S2: team effort for sure.
• 28:02
  S1: Yeah. Did you have any anxiety around, you know, like,
• 28:07
  S1: is everything okay? Like, did those, did those thoughts creep
• 28:11
  S1: up at all of the worry, the concern that often
• 28:15
  S1: accompanies being a new parent? Or did you feel like
• 28:18
  S1: you pretty quickly sort of settled, settled in?
• 28:21
  S2: I definitely would say for me, I felt at peace
• 28:27
  S2: and I felt super excited and everything was perfect. Um,
• 28:32
  S2: I mean, there were no concerns. You know, he he
• 28:36
  S2: was checked all his vitals, and the doctors were saying
• 28:41
  S2: he was great. And the nurses, um, even throughout the
• 28:46
  S2: different appointments, we also got the different reassurance throughout the pregnancy.
• 28:52
  S2: And so I just kept feeling like it's good. We're okay. Yeah.
• 28:57
  S2: Nothing's going to happen. Um, and throughout the pregnancy, I
• 29:02
  S2: think there's hesitation just because of what happened with Judah
• 29:05
  S2: and the two other miscarriages. Yeah. Um, and I think
• 29:10
  S2: that once we got closer, we're like, oh, we're we're good. We're.
• 29:15
  S2: Why are we hesitant? We're good. And we've been reassured
• 29:18
  S2: throughout the entire pregnancy. And, you know, even after giving birth,
• 29:23
  S2: like he was good. There was zero zero concerns.
• 29:27
  S1: Yeah. So, Josh, when was the first indication that there
• 29:33
  S1: was any sort of concern at all or. Or was there?
• 29:38
  S3: Yeah, there wasn't any. There wasn't any pre-existing conditions or
• 29:41
  S3: anything that, uh, he passed all the testing within, um,
• 29:45
  S3: the hospital of flying colors. Everything from his, you know,
• 29:48
  S3: his his heart, his brain, everything, um, speech. Everything. Uh,
• 29:52
  S3: vitals were were passing with flying colors. And then, of course,
• 29:55
  S3: they discharged us probably as quick as they could have. Um,
• 29:59
  S3: we stayed there for a little while just because they
• 30:01
  S3: knew of our case with with Judah. And so then
• 30:03
  S3: they released us, and then we came home and, um,
• 30:08
  S3: of course, you know, we're walking him around. I'm, I'm, uh,
• 30:12
  S3: you know, doing my, my dad duties, giving, you know,
• 30:15
  S3: getting him used to my voice and singing for him
• 30:17
  S3: and here and there just kind of, uh, so he
• 30:20
  S3: gets used to my variations here and there. And same with, uh,
• 30:22
  S3: Dane Dana a little bit. And then it was, uh,
• 30:25
  S3: then in the middle of the night, um, I think
• 30:27
  S3: it was around 1230 or or one, um, Dana woke
• 30:33
  S3: me up and, uh, she said that, uh, Levi was unresponsive.
• 30:39
  S3: And at that point, I'm half asleep saying, uh. What?
• 30:44
  S3: And I felt like I was still in a dream
• 30:46
  S3: at that point. And so I'm, you know, half asleep.
• 30:49
  S3: I quickly turned on the light and, you know, rewind.
• 30:52
  S3: Two weeks before that, um, many years ago, I was
• 30:57
  S3: a lifeguard where I had to know CPR decades ago.
• 31:01
  S3: And two weeks before we had Levi, there was a
• 31:04
  S3: refresher course that that came up. And we're like, you
• 31:07
  S3: know what? I don't think I need this. You know,
• 31:08
  S3: it's been I had this long time ago. We'll never
• 31:10
  S3: have to use this. Why? Little did I know that
• 31:14
  S3: two weeks after that I would be using that on
• 31:16
  S3: my own, son. And so when he was unresponsive and
• 31:21
  S3: limp at that point. His skin was starting to discolor
• 31:26
  S3: and turn from white to flush yellow. And so I'm thinking,
• 31:29
  S3: what's this? Jaundice. What's going on? But of course, he
• 31:32
  S3: wasn't breathing at that point. So at that point he says, hey, Josh,
• 31:35
  S3: you know CPR. You know, went to the class and
• 31:37
  S3: so quickly, I'm kind of getting out of my cloudiness
• 31:41
  S3: of just waking up. And so I immediately took him
• 31:43
  S3: off the bed and put him on the ground. And
• 31:46
  S3: I still have images today on a daily basis of
• 31:49
  S3: what that looked like, of having your son kind of
• 31:53
  S3: lifeless in front of you, in which he was very
• 31:56
  S3: active the day before and the day before that. Um,
• 32:00
  S3: and so I started to do the pumping and all that.
• 32:02
  S3: And Dana quickly called 911. And I didn't even know
• 32:05
  S3: Dana left because she was actually proactively going to open
• 32:09
  S3: the door. And of course, our dogs going nuts because,
• 32:11
  S3: you know, 1230 in the morning, she's shuffling around. I
• 32:14
  S3: had no idea. So I was there, you know, doing
• 32:16
  S3: the the pumping and then, of course, the breathing to
• 32:19
  S3: my son Based on what I learned two weeks ago
• 32:23
  S3: from a refresher course that I wasn't expecting, nor did
• 32:25
  S3: I want to go to because I thought it might
• 32:27
  S3: not be that valuable for me. But it was. And
• 32:30
  S3: so I kept doing that. And within probably a few minutes,
• 32:33
  S3: you know, the streets just lit up. You had you
• 32:36
  S3: had law enforcement there, you had ambulances there, you had
• 32:40
  S3: everything there. The whole street is lined up at about
• 32:43
  S3: 1:00 in the morning. Dana quickly opened the door. Of course,
• 32:46
  S3: our dog is going nuts, right? Is barking and they
• 32:48
  S3: have all these people running in, and he's he's, uh, going,
• 32:51
  S3: you know, crazy. And then they get to me and
• 32:54
  S3: they see me pumping, and I look over and I see,
• 32:56
  S3: you know, three guys there, and they said, okay, keep
• 32:59
  S3: keep blowing. We'll start pumping, keep blowing, we'll start pumping.
• 33:03
  S3: And then eventually, you know, the process is ready to
• 33:05
  S3: hand it over to them. And then they do both
• 33:07
  S3: the pumping and that. And I'm just kind of looking
• 33:09
  S3: back at that point thinking like, what is what is
• 33:11
  S3: going on here? Um, and they kept pumping and pumping again,
• 33:14
  S3: no expression, no, no reaction at that point. And then
• 33:17
  S3: they ended up taking him out to the ambulance there.
• 33:20
  S3: And of course, Ben and I are walking and, you know,
• 33:22
  S3: we feel like the whole, you know, our our heart
• 33:24
  S3: sank again. Right? And we're just, you know, at that point,
• 33:26
  S3: you're all adrenaline. You have no idea. You know, you're
• 33:29
  S3: just so we're sitting out on the ambulance for at
• 33:32
  S3: least 10 or 15 minutes. They're still pumping and pumping
• 33:34
  S3: and pumping on him. Um, at that point, no pulse, nothing. Um,
• 33:39
  S3: no breathing yet. And so the ambulance goes. We follow
• 33:43
  S3: the ambulance, we go to the hospital. Um, we ended
• 33:48
  S3: up arriving there first. And of course, we were greeted
• 33:51
  S3: by the chaplain, which is never a good thing when
• 33:54
  S3: the first person to greet you at the hospital is
• 33:56
  S3: the chaplain. So, of course, they made contact, I'm sure, with,
• 34:00
  S3: with them saying we're going to be on the way
• 34:01
  S3: to the hospital, meet these folks there. Um, and at
• 34:08
  S3: that point, um, kind of rewinding a second before that,
• 34:11
  S3: before we left to go to the hospital, I always
• 34:14
  S3: remember this, that this, the screech That a mother makes
• 34:20
  S3: when her son or daughter doesn't have a heartbeat is
• 34:25
  S3: is a, um, it's a cry like no other. And
• 34:30
  S3: especially when she fluctuates between English and Spanish, which she
• 34:34
  S3: didn't remember, that she started speaking in Spanish at that point. Um,
• 34:38
  S3: praying and crying to to God at all. Saying not again, Lord,
• 34:43
  S3: not again. How can this happen again? And now, rewinding
• 34:48
  S3: back to or fast forwarding back to the hospital. When
• 34:51
  S3: we were there, we were talking to the lady there.
• 34:53
  S3: And of course, after that, law enforcement comes in and
• 34:56
  S3: they have to do their checklist like, okay, we heard
• 34:58
  S3: you say, not again there. What do you mean by that?
• 35:01
  S3: I'm like, oh geez, I don't need to answer these
• 35:03
  S3: questions right now. This is not the right time to answer. Yeah.
• 35:07
  S3: And then we had explained the Judas story and then
• 35:09
  S3: and then this. And they said, okay, perfect. I got
• 35:11
  S3: what I need. You have nothing to see here. And, uh,
• 35:14
  S3: then Levi arrived and they said When we are able
• 35:17
  S3: to get his heartbeat going again, um, in the ambulance
• 35:21
  S3: ride afterwards and the folks that were in that ambulance,
• 35:27
  S3: they were done with their shift. All they had to
• 35:28
  S3: do was just hand over, right hand over Levi. And
• 35:30
  S3: then all of a sudden the emergency team within the
• 35:32
  S3: hospital starts working on it. But they stood around waiting
• 35:34
  S3: and watching, and they wanted to see the outcome of this,
• 35:37
  S3: because when they were picking up Levi from our house,
• 35:39
  S3: you could see the people that do this for a living.
• 35:42
  S3: They had their hands behind their head. Some of them
• 35:44
  S3: are hyperventilating when they were walking out because all of
• 35:47
  S3: them envision their own child in front of them. That happening.
• 35:50
  S3: And so you could tell all of them felt just awful. And, and, um,
• 35:58
  S3: when they were pumping him, you could almost if they
• 36:00
  S3: were saying words, what you could almost hear them saying is,
• 36:03
  S3: this child is going to die on my watch. We're
• 36:05
  S3: going to do everything we can. Um, because they could
• 36:09
  S3: see their children right through our child. And and, um,
• 36:13
  S3: nothing hurts worse than losing a child. And so they
• 36:18
  S3: worked hard on them. They ended up getting his heartbeat back.
• 36:20
  S3: Of course, at this point, his heart rate and everything
• 36:22
  S3: was kind of really off right when he came back.
• 36:24
  S3: Once you're done for 20 minutes, it's a it's a
• 36:26
  S3: miracle you're actually going to come back. And if you
• 36:28
  S3: come back, you never really know what you're going to
• 36:30
  S3: get at that point. And at that point, you know,
• 36:32
  S3: he went through probably 50, 60 seizures in front of
• 36:35
  S3: us up at that hospital, as well as the other
• 36:38
  S3: two hospitals we ended up going to. Um, throughout that week. Um,
• 36:42
  S3: but there were a lot of and I know Dana
• 36:44
  S3: can fill in too. There were even God never prevents
• 36:48
  S3: bad things from happening. But he's with you if you
• 36:51
  S3: allow him to be with you through the storm. And
• 36:55
  S3: that's one thing I learned through this, is you still
• 36:59
  S3: have to ask him. To come in in your darkest hours.
• 37:05
  S3: But when you do, he's there. Um, the nurses that
• 37:11
  S3: were working on him said that with within the hours
• 37:16
  S3: that he was well, within the days he was alive.
• 37:18
  S3: He was loved by more people in a short period
• 37:20
  S3: of time than most people are loved in their entire lives.
• 37:22
  S1: Wow.
• 37:23
  S3: And. We had a neurosurgeon too, that said, boy, I
• 37:28
  S3: love your name, Levi, because I'm a Levite. And from Israel.
• 37:34
  S3: Where her? Where she was from, the neurosurgeon that was
• 37:36
  S3: working on him. He had little God winks that said, um.
• 37:43
  S3: You know, no matter what you're seeing in front of you,
• 37:45
  S3: I'm still here with you. And, um, it was, you know,
• 37:51
  S3: he wasn't supposed to come back at 20, 20 minutes later.
• 37:54
  S3: He wasn't supposed to give us another week with him.
• 37:57
  S3: But both of our kids, Judah and Levi, are fighters,
• 38:01
  S3: and they love longer there. And they were supposed to.
• 38:03
  S3: They met their older family members, at least most of
• 38:05
  S3: their family members, when they were alive. Um. And even
• 38:11
  S3: during that time that same that the police officers that
• 38:13
  S3: were on the scene when they first got here, I
• 38:15
  S3: would get calls about every other day from the police chief.
• 38:19
  S3: And of course, anytime you get a call from the police, right, like, okay,
• 38:22
  S3: what's going on here? And they said, we just called
• 38:25
  S3: to see how Levi's doing. We're all rooting for him
• 38:29
  S3: and we're all behind you. So there's a lot of
• 38:35
  S3: unusual things that happen that week. Um. So. But God
• 38:44
  S3: was there. And.
• 38:48
  S1: Dana, you got another week with Levi, and then the
• 38:55
  S1: Lord took him. And to even say those words, you go. No.
• 39:04
  S1: How is that even possible? It's just it's not ever
• 39:10
  S1: supposed to happen that way once, let alone twice. It's
• 39:16
  S1: just not supposed to be that way. And I cannot
• 39:18
  S1: even fathom. I mean, as someone who is meeting you
• 39:24
  S1: today for the first time and feeling the gravity of no, no, no,
• 39:31
  S1: this cannot be. Did you. What did you. Could you
• 39:42
  S1: even open your mouth to pray? Did you? What was
• 39:48
  S1: your what was it like between you and God in
• 39:51
  S1: those in those moments?
• 39:55
  S2: Wow. Um. I in those moments, we were praying for
• 40:02
  S2: a miracle.
• 40:04
  S1: Yeah.
• 40:05
  S2: We're praying for a miracle. Um, everything was happening so
• 40:11
  S2: fast that I think, too, that you're going with the motions,
• 40:17
  S2: but at the same time you just feel like what
• 40:19
  S2: is going on.
• 40:21
  S1: Yeah.
• 40:22
  S2: Um, I mean, I had just delivered and I am
• 40:25
  S2: recovering from delivery. So even my body is like, going through, um,
• 40:33
  S2: its changes as well, that it was just a lot
• 40:38
  S2: happening and quickly. And there was no time to rest.
• 40:43
  S2: There was no time to think differently of anything else.
• 40:48
  S2: I was just saying, God, we we just need a miracle.
• 40:54
  S2: We just want Levi back. Um, we just want him
• 41:02
  S2: here with us. Um, that's the only thing that we wanted.
• 41:08
  S2: And that's what we prayed for. it and we knew
• 41:10
  S2: exactly who to go to. Um, for a miracle. And
• 41:15
  S2: who's the giver of life? And, um, and just trying
• 41:20
  S2: to see what we could do and, um, you know,
• 41:24
  S2: asking for God to give the doctors wisdom of, you know,
• 41:27
  S2: whatever else they could do to intervene. Um, and I
• 41:31
  S2: think that was the only thing that we were able
• 41:34
  S2: to really, really, um, hold on to and try to trust.
• 41:40
  S1: Um, you know, you think about the scriptures that talk
• 41:45
  S1: about God being near to the brokenhearted and saving those
• 41:49
  S1: who are crushed in spirit. And it's hard to think
• 41:53
  S1: of a more brokenhearted, crushed in spirit kind of moment
• 41:57
  S1: than what you were experiencing. Did you feel the nearness
• 42:03
  S1: of God at all? Was that any sort of a
• 42:05
  S1: reality to you, or did it take time for that
• 42:08
  S1: to become a reality.
• 42:12
  S2: I think in the moment when Levi was here, um,
• 42:17
  S2: I don't think I questioned whether he was near or nigh.
• 42:21
  S2: I think that I was just praying. I was pressing in. I, I,
• 42:26
  S2: I was doing what we call, um, you know, and
• 42:29
  S2: we tapped into family, friends, people at church. Um, you know,
• 42:36
  S2: there was different churches that we knew that were praying
• 42:39
  S2: for Levi. So I think that we felt the presence
• 42:43
  S2: of God embracing us. So I don't think for me,
• 42:48
  S2: I didn't question whether God was present. Um, I think
• 42:54
  S2: that after everything happened and after Levi went to heaven,
• 43:02
  S2: it just felt like, why? Why us? That's when the
• 43:08
  S2: questions really began of why us? Why this way?
• 43:15
  S1: Yeah.
• 43:16
  S2: Why? God?
• 43:18
  S1: Yeah.
• 43:19
  S2: And I think that's where that space began to develop
• 43:24
  S2: of just a little bit more questions of like, why, God? Why?
• 43:30
  S1: Yeah. Josh, what about you?
• 43:35
  S3: I would say living through half the story of job
• 43:37
  S3: is hard.
• 43:38
  S1: Mhm.
• 43:39
  S3: Um. And it's, it's kind of amazing. I would say
• 43:47
  S3: in general, when you're in the storm, you feel like
• 43:49
  S3: you're fighting it on your own sometimes. Right. Dana and
• 43:52
  S3: I hunker down. We got in the trenches and we
• 43:54
  S3: said we need to support each other and all that.
• 43:56
  S3: We knew God was there. Um, but of course, when
• 43:59
  S3: we're in the moments and we're getting updates every ten minutes,
• 44:02
  S3: 15 minutes. Oh, here's another seizure. Oh, here's another this,
• 44:05
  S3: another like this. You feel like, you know, it's his parents.
• 44:09
  S3: It's your responsibility to make a lot of quick decisions
• 44:12
  S3: on the fly and to see what other what other
• 44:15
  S3: things can we do? What other. Testing do we need
• 44:20
  S3: to have done? What other blood samples. What other? And
• 44:23
  S3: they're taking our DNA samples. They're taking everyone. I mean,
• 44:25
  S3: it's just samples after samples after testing, after things like that.
• 44:31
  S3: And so, you know, at this point, you feel completely
• 44:33
  S3: and there's no control. There's absolutely for for me, the
• 44:39
  S3: sense is a father to be completely without any sort
• 44:44
  S3: of you feel utterly helpless. You can't do anything. It's
• 44:48
  S3: out of your reach. It's out of your family's reach.
• 44:50
  S3: It's out of the doctor's reach, even to to a
• 44:54
  S3: significant portion. And so you start up the rug from
• 45:00
  S3: underneath you very quickly. And so you realize at this point,
• 45:03
  S3: what what are the facts that we have and what
• 45:05
  S3: decisions can we make based on what we know? And
• 45:08
  S3: you get right down to a very pragmatic decision making
• 45:11
  S3: while still praying as well. And so, um, again, there's
• 45:16
  S3: a lot of people touched by Levi's story. And Judah's
• 45:19
  S3: around the world, both within the US and abroad, that
• 45:22
  S3: heard our story. There was more than 20 churches praying
• 45:24
  S3: for us that we didn't know that, um, across that time,
• 45:27
  S3: we were, um, you know, I was posting some things
• 45:30
  S3: on Facebook here and there, you know, and, and a
• 45:34
  S3: lot of people's lives were touched and people were looking
• 45:36
  S3: to faith and haven't looked to faith before in their
• 45:38
  S3: lives because of what we were going through. And we
• 45:41
  S3: were just living out the way we knew how to.
• 45:43
  S3: And it's, you know, and, uh, so his testimony, you know,
• 45:48
  S3: those losses became our testimony. And it's not a club
• 45:51
  S3: you want to be part of. It's the involuntary club, right,
• 45:54
  S3: that no one chooses to be part of. Yeah, but
• 45:56
  S3: it's one that that becomes who you are. And, um,
• 46:02
  S3: even after. when Levi passed. One thing before he passed
• 46:09
  S3: that I thought was worth highlighting is, um, Dan and
• 46:13
  S3: I had a prayer. I think it was the this
• 46:15
  S3: is probably the one of the hardest prayers of parents
• 46:17
  S3: can do. But after Levi went through so much right,
• 46:20
  S3: and we were talking with the doctors and I said,
• 46:22
  S3: have you ever seen children come back after all this
• 46:25
  S3: happened to them? And they say very small percentage that
• 46:28
  S3: actually do come back, but they're never the same and
• 46:31
  S3: they're hardly ever able to support themselves in the future.
• 46:38
  S3: And so Dan and I that evening probably was the
• 46:40
  S3: hardest prayer. And we said, we're going to wake up
• 46:43
  S3: tomorrow and give Levi all the love we can. Um,
• 46:47
  S3: we're going to pour it on. We're going to be faithful.
• 46:50
  S3: We're going to be happy. And we're going to pray
• 46:54
  S3: for two things. One, a full miracle or two for heaven.
• 47:03
  S3: So in a way, God answered that prayer. So after
• 47:10
  S3: he went to heaven. Um, I guess I wasn't expecting
• 47:16
  S3: to write two eulogies for my sons within four years
• 47:19
  S3: apart and get used to writing eulogies. That's something that
• 47:23
  S3: a parent should never get used to for their kids,
• 47:25
  S3: writing their eulogies and actually being able to do it
• 47:28
  S3: without any feeling on the second time, just to be
• 47:31
  S3: able to hunker down and do it. But through his eulogies,
• 47:35
  S3: it touched people. Um, based on the symbolic meaning of
• 47:39
  S3: his names and their names together. And even after the
• 47:42
  S3: funeral was done, um, Dana's dad is a pastor, actually. And, uh,
• 47:46
  S3: at a Spanish Mennonite church out in Oregon. Um, very
• 47:50
  S3: well renowned up there. And he was going on a sabbatical,
• 47:53
  S3: and he asked me, he goes, hey, you know, I
• 47:55
  S3: was taking a doctoral classes and I still went to
• 47:57
  S3: my residency, I think a month or two after Levi
• 48:00
  S3: passed And he said, would you like to? You know,
• 48:04
  S3: we were just talking. Would you like to preach? So
• 48:05
  S3: I preached on job and mentioned my two sons during that,
• 48:10
  S3: and I wouldn't have ever expected to do that. Um,
• 48:15
  S3: but I think it ever since then, you see how
• 48:17
  S3: God worked in jobs life. You see how there's he
• 48:20
  S3: never answered the question of why those things happen to job, right?
• 48:24
  S3: He never answered why he negotiated in the beginning to
• 48:28
  S3: allow things to happen. But he was very, um, confident
• 48:34
  S3: because he knew the outcome before it happened. He knew
• 48:38
  S3: how job would react. And I like to think that
• 48:41
  S3: he knew how we would react before it happened, or
• 48:44
  S3: how that we would stay strong and faithful through him.
• 48:47
  S3: And I think through those stories and those testimonies, this
• 48:49
  S3: became our testimony. And there is no way you can
• 48:52
  S3: be in the middle on faith after something like this.
• 48:54
  S3: You're either all or nothing. And and I think it
• 48:58
  S3: pushed us all to. this is your purpose even more
• 49:01
  S3: than what it was before. It's time to get off
• 49:04
  S3: the bench and in the game, and it's time to
• 49:07
  S3: to really make a difference. Um, for the for the
• 49:09
  S3: last half of your life.
• 49:11
  S1: But, Dana, do you do you agree? When Josh said it, um,
• 49:17
  S1: this either pushes you to all in or or no
• 49:20
  S1: faith at all. Do you agree?
• 49:23
  S2: Yeah. Um, I definitely agree. And, you know, it just brings, like,
• 49:28
  S2: a different lens, um, where you're really filtering, like, okay,
• 49:34
  S2: what's the most valuable, um, piece in my life? What's
• 49:41
  S2: worth really fighting um, for? Um, um, kind of reprioritize
• 49:47
  S2: all of that, um, you know, um, prioritizing our faith,
• 49:52
  S2: living for God. Um, it just brings a different passion. Um.
• 49:59
  S2: with everything that we've been through, it just kind of
• 50:03
  S2: just brings something new.
• 50:05
  S1: Yeah. And the one year anniversary of of Levi's passing
• 50:11
  S1: is in June. Is that correct?
• 50:13
  S2: Yes. Uh, so it's June 8th. Mhm.
• 50:18
  S1: And so I know doing a, a podcast like this,
• 50:22
  S1: having to revisit all of those, you know, the heartbreak,
• 50:28
  S1: the pain, the just the, there's not enough words to
• 50:31
  S1: kind of describe what you've gone through over the last year.
• 50:35
  S1: And it really even 4 or 5 years. What, what
• 50:39
  S1: compelled you or or gave you the freedom to feel
• 50:43
  S1: like this is something that I'm at least open to
• 50:47
  S1: sharing with, with the world?
• 50:52
  S2: Yeah. Go ahead. Josh.
• 50:54
  S3: Well, I think it goes back to the why. Right.
• 50:56
  S3: And it's figuring out why did this happen to us,
• 50:58
  S3: and what kind of message or testimony can this bring
• 51:00
  S3: to others. Folks that are folks that are going through
• 51:04
  S3: a rough time, their values. Right. And everyone's family is different.
• 51:06
  S3: Some are much deeper than others. Some are much more shallow.
• 51:09
  S3: And if this brings people to faith, if this strengthens
• 51:13
  S3: their faith, and we've heard from countless people of all faiths,
• 51:15
  S3: whether it's Christianity or even a whole nother religion, not
• 51:18
  S3: even denomination, but a whole nother religion of saying, I
• 51:20
  S3: don't know what you have in you, but we want
• 51:23
  S3: it and and we're not sure we could have gone
• 51:25
  S3: through this and been on the other side like you are. Um,
• 51:30
  S3: it had meaning. They both had purpose. And it makes
• 51:33
  S3: heaven much more tangible and real for us than it's
• 51:35
  S3: ever been before. So if we're here tomorrow or we're
• 51:38
  S3: up there tomorrow, it's a win win for both of us.
• 51:41
  S3: And we've got as much family up there as we
• 51:43
  S3: have here, maybe even more in our immediate family up there.
• 51:46
  S3: So I feel like sharing this, his story, sharing, you know,
• 51:51
  S3: the faith and saying never lose faith. If we've gone
• 51:54
  S3: through this, you can go through whatever you're going through, um,
• 51:57
  S3: no matter what their circumstances are. Um, I would just
• 52:00
  S3: say the folks that are questioning faith, um, I would say,
• 52:05
  S3: I would say hold on to faith, because at the
• 52:07
  S3: end of the day, that's all you have. Um, you've
• 52:09
  S3: got close. Even if you have close family, things like that,
• 52:12
  S3: we're all going to end up one place or another
• 52:14
  S3: when we pass. And if we spend so much time
• 52:18
  S3: on career, if we spend so much time on health,
• 52:21
  S3: we spend so much time on on finances. Um, and
• 52:25
  S3: we're going to spend the rest of eternity, thousands of years.
• 52:28
  S3: We're only going to be here less than 100 years
• 52:30
  S3: for most of us. Why wouldn't we want to spend
• 52:32
  S3: more time studying and learning about the place we're going
• 52:33
  S3: to be for thousands of years, rather than a short
• 52:37
  S3: snippet of a life that we're going to be less
• 52:38
  S3: than 100 years. So, you know, put your faith in
• 52:41
  S3: the person that made us. Those are my parting words.
• 52:46
  S1: Dana, what would be your parting words if if anything?
• 52:53
  S2: You know, um. coming in in a year. I and
• 52:59
  S2: I was reflecting on it, you know, just thinking about
• 53:03
  S2: the podcast. And it has not been easy. Um, there
• 53:12
  S2: are seasons where, uh, I guess I feel like I'm
• 53:17
  S2: dipped in a cup of love and I feel God
• 53:20
  S2: around me all the time. And then there's seasons where
• 53:22
  S2: I'm just like, okay, it's silent. And then I'm like, okay, God,
• 53:26
  S2: I really need to hear you today.
• 53:27
  S1: Um, thanks for being honest about that. I think that's
• 53:30
  S1: probably helpful for people to hear. That's that's not sort
• 53:33
  S1: of a linear.
• 53:34
  S2: No path.
• 53:35
  S1: Out of of grief and. Right. Yeah. Go ahead. I
• 53:39
  S1: didn't mean to interrupt.
• 53:40
  S4: Yeah. Um.
• 53:42
  S2: And you know, something that, uh, I've been learning in
• 53:46
  S2: the last year is, um, and actually, this is through
• 53:51
  S2: Josh that I've been learning that, Being in lament is okay. Um,
• 53:59
  S2: and I, we're both optimists, and I think I've always
• 54:04
  S2: tried to seem like the the blessings. Like where I'm
• 54:07
  S2: always focused on the blessings.
• 54:10
  S4: Okay.
• 54:11
  S2: Yeah. Um, the the positives, you know, kind of seeing
• 54:13
  S2: the other side, always trying to look at things from
• 54:16
  S2: a different angle, the better side of things. Um, but
• 54:19
  S2: in the last year, it's kind of given that opportunity
• 54:23
  S2: to be like, you know what? Let's be real. Let's
• 54:28
  S2: let's be real. Let's be real with God. Let's be
• 54:31
  S2: real with, um, it's hard. It's not easy.
• 54:37
  S4: Yeah.
• 54:38
  S2: Humans. Um, we just lost two of our babies that
• 54:46
  S2: were born alive that we were hoping for. We were
• 54:50
  S2: dreaming for, um. And we just lost again. Dreams and
• 54:54
  S2: hopes and plans. And the only thing that we could
• 54:59
  S2: do is press into God and be real with him
• 55:02
  S2: so he can meet us where we're at. Um, so
• 55:06
  S2: I think it's it's been, you know, a season of
• 55:11
  S2: just kind of learning of it's okay to be real
• 55:17
  S2: and say, I'm in fire and then be real with saying, hey.
• 55:21
  S2: And then I feel those days and what Josh talked
• 55:24
  S2: about and in earlier of then saying, hey, I see God's,
• 55:29
  S2: you know, um, kind of little winks where I see
• 55:33
  S2: God speaking to me today, or I feel like he
• 55:37
  S2: just heard my conversation and he's reassuring me here. Yeah. Um,
• 55:43
  S2: so I think there's been both sides. Um, and so
• 55:48
  S2: I think it's expected and I think it's learning how
• 55:53
  S2: to press in as much as like there are days
• 55:55
  S2: where we don't want to sing. There's days where we
• 55:57
  S2: don't want to pray, there's days where we don't want anything,
• 56:00
  S2: but then there's days where we're just like, we just
• 56:03
  S2: really need to sit in God's Word. We're just really
• 56:06
  S2: need to sit in and just try to hear God today.
• 56:11
  S2: That's the only thing that we need and want.
• 56:14
  S1: Yeah. Is there anything else that either one of you
• 56:19
  S1: feel like you we may have missed? Or maybe a
• 56:23
  S1: question I didn't ask?
• 56:25
  S3: No. I guess the only thing I would say is that,
• 56:27
  S3: you know, when people have losses, right? And there's all
• 56:29
  S3: different types of loss, right? We know that, you know,
• 56:31
  S3: when when a parent dies too early, when a sibling
• 56:34
  S3: dies from unknown reasons, when a child dies of very quick, um, movements,
• 56:41
  S3: things like that. There's so many questions that will always
• 56:45
  S3: be unanswered. Right. And whether it's the doctors, whether it's
• 56:48
  S3: sometimes we sometimes we hear from God right away. Sometimes
• 56:51
  S3: we don't. We don't. We don't have any idea how
• 56:52
  S3: long Jobe had to wait and how patient he had
• 56:56
  S3: to be to to actually maybe get halfway answers from
• 57:02
  S3: some of those, those challenges. And so I would just
• 57:04
  S3: say getting used to not knowing the answers is the
• 57:08
  S3: struggle for me, but that's the struggle that a lot
• 57:11
  S3: of people have. And it's just being finding a way
• 57:14
  S3: to be content with not having hardly any answers to
• 57:17
  S3: unknown things. And it's a muscle that gets built when
• 57:22
  S3: you least expect it. And it's something that some people
• 57:24
  S3: like myself, even have, probably have a hard time the
• 57:26
  S3: rest of my life with. But, um, there's so much
• 57:29
  S3: that's unexplained in why life happens and why it doesn't
• 57:31
  S3: happen the way we expected, and why certain folks are
• 57:35
  S3: saved and why others aren't. And there's no real answer
• 57:38
  S3: for that that we'll ever hear. Um, why is, you know,
• 57:41
  S3: there's all these questions, right? It's why, why, why does
• 57:45
  S3: pain happen unequivocally to some couples and statistically more than
• 57:49
  S3: all other couples. And keep happening without answers. There's no
• 57:54
  S3: there's no answer for that. Right. So it's kind of
• 57:58
  S3: being okay with the unknown being okay that things don't
• 58:01
  S3: make sense. And that's the only person that can make
• 58:03
  S3: sense of it. Really, at the end of the day,
• 58:04
  S3: is God. No matter how smart a person is, no
• 58:08
  S3: matter how intelligent they are, the doctors couldn't figure it
• 58:11
  S3: out half the time. And and the other I mean,
• 58:14
  S3: it just shows how limited we are as humans of
• 58:17
  S3: knowing the full picture. No matter how hard or how
• 58:19
  S3: intelligent we are. Only one person has, and that's God. Yeah.
• 58:24
  S1: So I want to thank you both for for your
• 58:30
  S1: willingness to do this. And for I know that there
• 58:33
  S1: will be people who will will hear it, and it
• 58:37
  S1: will be exactly what they what they need to hear.
• 58:40
  S1: And so your courage and being willing to to share
• 58:43
  S1: this and to open up your hearts, um, I just
• 58:46
  S1: want to sincerely thank you.