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Everybody Relax. We're Talking About Crypto. · Merryn Talks Money

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Merin Talks Money Weekly round up, our
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  Speaker 2: Merrin Sumsetweb Editor at Large for Bloomberg UK Wealth and
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: oh no, you can increase yourself John and I'm.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: Joined Stepics, senior reporter and authors the Money Distilled newsletter.
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  Speaker 2: Of wisdom, you are going to have to be a
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  Speaker 2: sign up to Bloomberg. So you can see that in
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: the show notes. As I said earlier, now, John John, John, Johnjohn,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: you haven't got any cryptocurrency, have you?
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Nothing? Not a single token, not a penny in it. Nothing.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: Actually, actually, actually, I do have some obscure thing called
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: bitcoin cash. The Mutual friend Dominic sent to me okay,
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: services rendered at one point.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, we'll talk about that offline. Fascinating.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is my.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Way of leading us into the fact that we have
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: got to talk about cryptocurrencies today. We've we flagged in
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: this very show only last week that the re election
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: of Donald Trump was going to be excellent news for
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: bitcoin and for cryptocurrencies in general. Now we're speaking in
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: the middle of the week and bitcoin search has paused,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: maybe for a while, maybe not for a while, but
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: it's se a huge thirty percent jump in value as
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: a result of Trump's rhetorical support for crypto.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: He's been talking about it a lot.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: It's currently valued at around eighty six five hundred dollars.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: But of course it's not the only cryptocurrency enjoying something
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: of a boost. Doge coin, dog cooin, help me out here.
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: I think doruge thanks doors.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Doge Yeah, yeah, doge coin, which by the way, I own,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: has seen an eighty percent increase in the past five days,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: partly due to billionaire Elon musk promotion of the token.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: It's now considered one of the strongest performers in crypto.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: And I will just add that I did say I
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: own some dogecoin, and I do, but I have recently
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: checked my coin based account and my dogecoin is current
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: worth ten pounds and forty two pence. It's gonna really
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: need to move from here to drive my retirement, right.
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's a coin, and that is a so
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: that's pretty good.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it is.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: But you know, I mean, I know it's a joke coin,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: and I bought it as a joke, as you, mainly
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: to irritate by my husband. But kind of the joke's
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: on me giving it certainly work worth just over a
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: tanner right now, one day, John, one day, my bitcoin
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: is worth a little more my insurance bitcoin. Now we
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: are both getting into quite a lot of trouble on
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Twitter in general, because every time I write anything about bitcoin,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: I get hoardes and hordes and hordes of replies from
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: the crypto bros telling me how stupid I am, telling
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: me how stupid you are, sorry, John, and how useless
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: we are not to have educated ourselves earlier, and how
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: one way, one day we will understand if we would
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: only come for this subject with a little more humility
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: and have more expert guests on. And they keep recommending
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: experts to me, this expert, that ex I am not
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: sure that you people really understand the difference between an
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: expert and a siloed idea logue.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, there's a certain cultishness about bitcoin. And
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: the one reason that I actually have, if I'm one
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: hundred percent, was to have a slight soft spot for
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: it is because this reminds me of almost exactly what
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: the gold bugs were like in the early two thousands.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: And at that point, you know, when we were writing
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: about gold, it was something that the mainstream media wouldn't
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: touch by a ten foot bar's pole. And you know,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: you couldn't find an IFA or certainly not a respectable
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: wealthy managers who would even give gold space in their portfolio,
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: whereas today they all say, yeah, have five ten percent
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: of your portfolio and gold that's a decent diversifier blah
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: blah blah. So you know, there's a bit of me
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: that so sees remembers that and sees where some of
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: the frustration comes from.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And we should actually note with that in mind, that
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: that a deutsch Bank has just put a long term
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: asset return to study lessons from the first quarter center
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: of the millennium in which they point out that gold
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: has performed better than the US secuity marketer over the
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: first twenty five years of the of the millennium.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I mean that's really interesting, if you know,
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: because in two thousand, if you'd said the asset to
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: buy and hold right now is gold over.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Which we did by the way, which we did.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: Well, Yeah, I guess good point, just saying well it
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: did and it has over performed since then. And that's
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: that's kind of fascinating in the all of itself. Employee
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: speaks to, you know, balance sheets and then the funny
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: kind of way, I guess beckcoin is actually an offshoot
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: of that world which has been very kind to gold.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: It's a world where faith and the financial system, the
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: size of government bound shoots the central bank bound cheat says,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: can shut up, so that the two have got there's
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: a certain sort of relationship there, but it's never good
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: to be cultishly invested in any asset.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: I'm if I'm fair to our audience, I would say
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: maybe I've historically been a little cultures about gold, but
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: I never regret it. Right, Let's talk. Let's talk to
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: me a lot better than our value. Stock got to say.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about why this has happened.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously it's a lot about the election. It's
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: not about Donald Trump, about the the likelihood of a
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: crypto friendly government across the board. We're like to see
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: some new cryptocurrency friendly legislation. There's almost nothing here that
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: appears to be negative to the cryptocurrency market. It's total capitalization.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Market capitalization is hid in all time high. We've seen
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: extraordinary levels of activity. Another a stat from Deutsche Bank
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: here twenty for our trading volume exceeding four hundred dollars.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: So you've got a lot going on here.
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: Than silver though in terms of market yes, I saw that.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I saw that, Mart Okay, So there's lots of things
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: that could happen here.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: We'll have more regularly claratory we'll have more institutional participation,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: presumably as a result of this regulatory clarity, so we
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: can expect even more money to pour into bitcoin. ETFs
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: will have a better infrastructure, and maybe we'll see a
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: broader adoption of cryptocurrencies among not just the institutional but
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: also the retail market.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: So there's that.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: We've also got and momentum behind it. We've got possibly
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: lower interest rates coming, and that's good for everything. Everything
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: growthy and bitcoin tends to move alongside growth. And then
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: the final thing, which you mentioned briefly earlier, is ded dollarization,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: fast raising debt, general global tensions. If you think of
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: crypto a bit like you think of gold, then it's
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: going to be in there. And here's another fascinating stat
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: for you again, I'm pulling this out of Deutsche Bank.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I think it's really interesting. The bricks nations now conduct
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: twenty eight percent of cross border crypto currency transactions. So
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: that suggests that it really is important that cryptocurrencies are
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: facilitating global economic flows, international emissionss, etcetera. In a way
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: that we hadn't We have talked about it on this podcast,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: by the way. We had lengthy conversations, did we which
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: guess it was we had on who talked to us
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: her a lot about the way that cryptocurrency is, and
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: bitcoin in particular a use for economic transfers res across
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: the third world.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: Was that limb Yeah, the one that keeping that we
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: should have oin and who we have had Oin?
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, the person people keep telling us we should definitely
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: have Lynen and I keep saying no, but we had
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Lenon and leaves them going, well, then why don't you
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: understand that she was really good, very very good.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very good.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Anyway, So all these things, So, John, does this lead
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: you rushing out now to buy bitcoin and accepting that
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: you and I and Be in particular have been completely
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: wrong on bitcoin ever since that tweet that I wrote
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: that thank you tech bros For dragging up back in
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: twenty eleven where I said that bitcoin at twenty eight
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: dollars was a mania.
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: I mean it was a mania at the time.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: It's been through a number of manias, and Bitcoin's been
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: through at least two major bubbles and busts now, and
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: it's sort right that Matthew and bitcoin hasn't changed. I
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: think it's a real thing. I think it has a
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: use case. I just don't know how to value it,
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: and I think the valuation is largely driven by flows,
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: which is, you know, very indicative of the era that
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: we're in. Pretty much every asset valuation is driven more
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: so flows have become much more important than fundamentals, and
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: I don't know when or if that's going to change,
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: you know, I wish I had the wind that when
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: I frustrated by it in like twenty fifteen, in.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: My stupid We've both been there.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: So you know I would I would probably at least
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: have sold it at some point and bought a small
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: car with it, you know, but I like to think
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: that I could be a millionaire.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Bitt this point that that is the important thing to remember. Everyone,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: the likes of you and me, John say, well, I
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: wish we bought this point. I wihould put at this point,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: I we should bought at this point, we forget.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: That we would have sold it.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we would not still be holding it now and
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: we'd be living with that kind of seller's regret, and
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: we would then almost definitely buy in at the top
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: of everything.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: All we pull an Isaac Newton for absolutely certain the
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: sea bubble thing.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: We would that would not be shameful, you like her.
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: I compared this to Isaac Newton.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I did. I really, I really appreciated that. Thank you.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Now listen, there's something that I that I wanted to
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: talk about, which is the possibility. And I'm not saying
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: this because I don't have very much bitcoin. There is
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: a possibility that is beginning to be discussed that Trump's
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: regulatory regime may be very crypto positive, but not necessarily
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: bitcoin bitcoin positive. And I've been talking to Russell Russell Napier,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: the financial historian and founder of the Library of Mistakes,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: who we've had on the podcast before, and we talked
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: to and about a reasonable amount about this. He makes
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: a very good point. He says, look, bitcoin is a
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: portal that allows savers to avoid measures that push savings
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: towards funding national investments. Trump is a nationalist. He's going
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: to want to use national savings for what he perceives
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: to be the national good. So maybe that's going to
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: make him move away from bitcoin slightly towards other, well
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: not other, but actual stable coins.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Now they're the opposite.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: They're back to usually by short term treasury securities, and
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: they attract funds into the dollars, into the US government,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: so they may turn into not just a means of
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: transaction for Americans, but also a store of value for
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: foreigners who don't have easy access to dollar deposits, So
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: that not only brings funds into the dollar, but also
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: provides funds that Trump may be able to direct to
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: what he considers to be the national good. So there's
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: there is a difference here between bitcoin and stable coins.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: So when we talk about crypto, we have to remember
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: that crypto isn't one great big mass. It may be
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: that we now move into an era where all the
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: things that we have that people have discussed with us
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: on the podcast about the things that are good about
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: crypto in general, changing changing the way companies run, changing
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: the way various legal processes run, changing the way the
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: infrastructure of finance is run. That may turn out to
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: be the key thing under Trump as opposed to bitcoin itself.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: I suppose that's the interesting thing. And this, I mean,
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: this is one reason you know, obviously the cryptos of
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: the thing, because stable currencies are stable coins are the
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: thing that actually worry governments, and they're the reason that
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: we're getting central bank digital currencies cbdc's because the fundamentally
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: the government cannot have the private sector taken over or
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: taking a large chunk of the currency business. That's basically
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: you know that and you've pointed this out before. Governments
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: have always made sure that the monopoly, in fact those
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: with monarchs as well, the monopoly and currency issuance must
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: always be with the leaders of the country, basically, and
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: crypto has posed a threat to that, and that's why
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: central banks and the bis have taken it seriously. And
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: you're right, and I think the risk here is that
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: the sort of ideological underpinnings of bitcoin and crypto specifically
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: we're all about essentially escaping from government control of currencies,
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: and the irony of ironies, as always says, is that,
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: as you say, maybe Trump is the one to mainstream them,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: and maybe mainstreams them by making you know, bitcoin a
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: reserve aset that backs the staple coin version of the dollar.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: Type of thing.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: You know, he sort of brings it into, you know,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: under the control of you know, a kind of essentialized
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: kind of power. And I realize a lot of people
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: will be spitting out their tea when they hear that,
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: But that's kind of you know, if you're excited the
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: black Rock have launched that, you know, an etf owning bitcoin,
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: et cetera.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: And then then you're not really yes, I mean, you're
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: not there with the original purpose of bitcoin. You know,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: it's supposed to be more on a transaction currency that
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: has not happened, and it's long been taken over by
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: other things, and that they're supposed to be a store
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: of value, and you can't really call it that because
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: of the volatility. I mean, you can say it's gone
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: up in value, but that's not the same as being
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: a store of value, is it. And of course there's
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: this idea that it was supposed to operate outside the system,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: and I was, it's now being pulled deeper and deeper
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: into the system. And one thing I might add to that,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: by the way, is it in the general abuse I
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: get on Twitter as next tech bros. The general abuse
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I get on Twitter a lot. A lot of it
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: is about, well, you know, if Larry Fink thinks it's
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: an asset class, then you should think it's a NAS
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: class too, and do you know what's wrong with you?
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Et cetera.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: And the point I would say to that is that
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: just because big institutions launch vehicles that allow you to
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: invest in a product, does not mean that they have
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: a particular belief in the long term value of that
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: product of that acid class. Simply that all products in
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: which you invest make big institutions money. So you know, obviously,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: if you're going to set up a Bitcoin ETF, you
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: assume the bitcoin has got strong some longevity. But it's
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: not a vote of confidence in its long term value.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: It's a vote of confidence in the fees that you
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: can gather from creating a vehicle in which other people
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: can invest in. I mean, it's different, it's different, So
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: please everyone stops sending me tweets saying that it was
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: good enough for black crockets should be good enough for me.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: They only I mean, from a practical point of view,
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: I think that the best approach to investing in bitcoin
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: that I have seen is probably Charlie Morris's Bold, and.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: I think we can probably say to that before you
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: tell us what boulders, I think I will also say
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: everyone telling us on Twitter to get Charlie Morrison, he's.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Been on john't remind us what bold is.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: Basically, Charlie's get this mix where it's it's something like
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: it's the proportions vary, but it's a big chunk of gold.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: With a little chunk of bitcoin.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: And the great thing about it is that because they
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: kind of have similarities, but they also have differenceies, so
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: when one's going up, the others going down in vice versa.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: But also it smooth at the volatility, and I think
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: it's returned. I could be completely wrong in this because
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: I don't have the figure in front of me, but
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: I think it's about eighty percent this year, which is
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: much better than you know, it's it's not as good
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: as holding bitcoin by itself, but at the same time,
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: there's no point at which you've been looking at your
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: portfolio going oh my god and kind of like sobbing
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: and worrying that you can be able to pay your
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: mortgage that.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: Week or whatever.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: So you know that's that's eighty percent is quite respectable.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: And Charlie's been banging the drum on this for years now,
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: and think he's pretty much the only person I can
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: think of certainly that's talked about it in that respect.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: And he definitely understands bitcoin for anyone who is, you know,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: that way inclined.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: So no, I think his approach is the best.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Do you mean he doesn't need to educate himself.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: He doesn't need to educate himself, and obviously with more humility. Yeah,
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: humility is the first world that springs to mind when
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: I think you.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, but that's interesting.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: So anyone who hasn't listened to the episode that we
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: did with Charlie, do go back and listen to listen
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: to it again.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: It's very interesting.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Some of us very kindly, just as showed me Childie's
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: most recent update. And so Bold has with on fifty
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: six percent, which is better than gold and not as
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: good as bitcoin.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: God, I take that, though, wouldn't you.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: I would take fifty six percent.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Crypto has done very well. Gold has done very well.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Crypto has done better.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: You could have done pretty well by having both. You
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: may think that the future is very certain for bitcoin,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: given that Trump appears to be a backer of bitcoin,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: but there are all sorts of dynamics out there that
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: you don't and we don't yet fully understand. The future
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: is never certain anything else about John.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: No said obviously all complaints to somewhere.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: They also went to oh absolutely, and particularly about bitcoin,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: particularly about bitcoin. And by the way, one one last thing,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: it might still be a mania might be who knows.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. To this week's Merin Talks Money Debrief.
• 19:01
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• 19:03
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• 19:06
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• 19:08
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• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Have you joined truth Social yet?
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: No?
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: But I intend to excellent get on with.
• 19:15
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• 19:18
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• 19:21
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• 19:24
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• 19:27
  Speaker 2: merin Money at Bloomberg dot net