Latest / Galaxies and Goddesses: A Sci-Fi & Fantasy Bookcast / Second Foundation: Asimov’s Trilogy Comes Full Circle
Transcript
- Second Foundation Deep Dive Andrea: I’m Andrea. Elizabeth: And I'm Elizabeth. Andrea: Join us as we chat about sci-fi and fantasy books and beyond. Elizabeth: Looking for a little escape from reality. So are we. Andrea: Welcome to Galaxies and Goddesses. Elizabeth: On this week’s episode, we're talking about Second Foundation by Isaac Asimov. Andrea: Specifically, we'll be talking about how the trilogy's completed story arc brings things full circle. Elizabeth: Along with why the series still feels relevant today. Andrea: Let's get started. Andrea: So just a small recap… Andrea: Part One: Search by the Mule. The Mule taken over Foundation and is continuing to look for Second Foundation throughout the galaxy. And he gets to a planet where he thinks he's found Second Foundation. Andrea: And we start to get glimpses of the Second Foundation’s point of view. They are teaching kind of the next generation within Second Foundation how the mathematical formula works and how that runs through everything. But you don't really know where it's taking place. You just are observing a conversation between two individuals that are part of the Second Foundation group. So it confirms pretty early on in the book that yes, Second Foundation does exist, but we don't really know where it takes place. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: And then Part Two: Search by Foundation, the Mule is no longer part of the story. Elizabeth: Yeah, he dies, doesn't he? Andrea: He dies, yes. He stops searching for Second Foundation and then he dies, and so Foundation continues to rise in power. And you begin to follow the story of Arcadia Darell, and she is the granddaughter of Bayta Darell, who showed up in Foundation and Empire. Andrea: I also really liked the second half of this book and following that story, and how she's listening into her father's secret meetings and actually telling him how he should be running his secret society in sense of "Oh, don't make it a secret because then you're being too obvious." I really liked that dynamic. Andrea: You needed Part One, the Mule's whole story, for Part Two, Search by Foundation, to make sense. But Search by Foundation the back and forth between Arcadia and her father and his group of other scientists, I think that was a more interesting part. Elizabeth: Yeah, absolutely. Elizabeth: I feel like the same thing happened with Empire and Foundation, that the first part of it was setting things up and wasn't quite as interesting, but then the second part of it absolutely was, and this even more so. I feel like the first part, I remember a little bit more of it. Elizabeth: It helped build things a little better, but didn't linger, to then set up for the second part, which is when it really pulled you in. Andrea: And I do think you got a nice resolution at the end of this book. Andrea: For me, I think that completed the trilogy arc, and I know that there's prequels and sequels, but I do think this is an okay place to end the trilogy. Like, if I don't get any more of this universe, I'm okay with that. Andrea: After finishing the book, Elizabeth, what were some of the big ideas that stuck out to you? Elizabeth: The rise and fall of civilizations. You get a better sense of the… the sort of machinations of all of it when you know what started the empire previously, and then into a different sort of empire being the Foundation, and then from the Foundation into the Second Foundation. Elizabeth: So you go through the, the rise and fall of multiple different empires, and how that plays out. When these three books have such a scale of time you can see how that can play out over, 400 years that you kinda know from beginning to end, right? Andrea: Mhmm. Elizabeth: Yeah, what about you? What other big ideas stick out to you? Andrea: The psychohistory idea of can history be predicted was really interesting throughout the series. But in Second Foundation, what I really enjoyed was the newer concepts it introduced about reading people's minds or influencing people's thoughts and choices. Andrea: When this was written they didn't have the same technology that we do today, where we are literally mapping how the brain functions and doing neural maps of how electrons go off in people’s brains. Andrea: So the idea of the mental influence that somebody else could have, I thought that was really interesting is still relevant today. Andrea: I also thought it was interesting that they had this sort of generation gap between Arcadia and Bayta. I like that it wasn't actually her daughter, but her granddaughter. It does lend itself to that greater scale of time, and the idea that information can be lost between different generations. Andrea: As we were reading this, I kept thinking about my grandfather actually. He was literally, a rocket scientist. Andrea: I was too young to ever really understand what that meant, I didn't talk to him about rockets or science. We sat at the Thanksgiving table and I passed the cranberry sauce. We didn't about big ideas, and now as an adult, I wish that I could him what he thought about science fiction books and movies and he's not around to ask those questions anymore. Andrea: And so I think just this idea that the next generation or a couple generations pass and they don't understand perspective of their grandparents or generations before them, I think that's interesting. Elizabeth: I feel like the, arc from the first to the second to the third book is almost like, 30,000-foot view with the first book, and then you kind of zoom in a little bit in space and time for the second book, especially the second part of the second book, and then you get to zoom in a little bit closer, right? Elizabeth: Not that much later in time. There's not a huge jump in time from the second book to the third book. And then to get Bayta's granddaughter's story, Or, well, her son and her granddaughter's stories. So you, kind of like, zoom closer and closer from book to book, which I thought was interesting. Andrea: It feels really fast pace at the end too. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: The characters are tighter, the action is tighter, and it felt like a real game of, What's that called where they, like, It's like a gambling type game where they have the three cups and they cover them and mix them all around. Elizabeth: Yeah. The like street scam? Andrea: Yeah. Andrea: There was a lot of guessing, people thinking they knew where Second Foundation was, and then it moving and it all happened really fast. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: But it kept your attention. Elizabeth: Yeah. I thought it was interesting that the first Foundation, the main the Foundation that it is dedicated to physical sciences. Whereas the Second Foundation, which is located, what, at the other side of the galaxy, is to do with mental sciences, like psychology, psychohistory. Elizabeth: And it's really the Second Foundation that's pulling all the strings. Elizabeth: We maybe said with our analysis or discussion of the first book, we didn't necessarily say that there was a lot of like, Star Wars in it. Elizabeth: But after now the third book, there's definitely, it's a lot of Star Wars. A few different times there's ... I thought to myself, "Oh, that's a character like Han Solo," you know, the rogue, rakish, charming but handsome, space captain. And, you know, Princess Leia, the family lines with Bayta versus Arcadia and, anyway, but with Star Wars, right, it always starts with, “A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away," Elizabeth: Right? I feel like based on the science that they had as far as the mental sciences, there was a lot of discussion about EEG, electroencephalography. And EEG was invented by a German psychiatrist, Hans Berger, in 1924. Elizabeth: But so, if that technology was invented, at least in, on this planet at this time, it was invented about 100 years ago. And so, for them to be using EEG technology to the level that they are, I feel like this isn't the Star Wars a long time ago, but a long time from now in a galaxy far away. Andrea: Yeah. Andrea: And I think it's hinted at somewhere in this book that this mythological Earth. Like we don't know what the name of it is anymore, but… Elizabeth: Yeah. As like, as like ancient, ancient history. Andrea: Yeas, yeah. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: Similarly, like how it has the Encyclopedia Galactica entries that make it feel as if a history textbook. Andrea: Like, "Oh, this has already happened”. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: You're actually reading something that happened in the past, and it made it feel like recorded history, and gave it a little bit of authenticity. It reminded me of The War of the Worlds that was done by H.G. Wells. Elizabeth: Oh yeah. Andrea: Where it makes it feel like it’s real. Elizabeth: And happening right now. Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: Yeah and causing panic. Andrea: And that came out in 1938. That was before Foundation was ever published. So I wonder if that influenced Asimov as he's writing this to give it this feeling of this could be real, this is the future, and he's writing it as if he's a historian, as if it's already happened. Elizabeth: I wonder if that influenced Frank Herbert when he wrote Dune. 'Cause, like, at the beginning of all the chapters, there is a little sort of blurb as if this is an historical account of what has happened and, like, someone's narrating it. Elizabeth: Frank Herbert published Dune in 1965, so that would be, what? More than 10 years after this book was published. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Elizabeth: I did like that detail. Andrea: Yeah. It had been doing the Encyclopedia Galactica entries throughout the entire series, but I like that that's consistent. It's not just in the last book. Throughout the series it's had encyclopedia entries with additional footnotes. There's an encyclopedia entry as well as a footnote at the bottom of the page explaining the encyclopedia entry further. On the first page it says, "All quotations from the Encyclopedia Galactica here reproduced are taken from the 116th edition, published in 1020 FE by the Encyclopedia Galactica Publishing Co., Terminus, with permission from the publishers." It sounds so official. Elizabeth: Very. Mm-hmm Andrea: I do really like that. Elizabeth: There was a lot of sort of misdirection in the book. You kinda mentioned that. What was your comparison earlier? Andrea: Shell game. That’s what it’s … shell game. Elizabeth: There's m- many times where people think that they have discovered where the Second Foundation is or how it's working, what it's doing like espionage and moles and yeah, all sorts of mystery and misdirection. Elizabeth: But I didn't necessarily guess it. We're not gonna give anything away, but did you guess it? Andrea: I did not guess it. I had some feelings that like maybe this was a little too convenient, but I didn't figure it out. And I think one of the things that did make this book so much more interesting was, as I said before, the idea of influencing people's thoughts and actions. And I wonder if when Hari Seldon originally set up the two foundations, if the Second Foundation had the powers or capabilities that it did 400 years in the future, or if the Second Foundation, were able to develop these psychological sort of powers, these mental powers, and so they become more adept at influencing people's thoughts and actions. And so maybe that's why it didn't play a role as much earlier on, but I also feel like they didn't have a reason to influence anyone prior to the Mule, right? The Mule changed the plan, Second Foundation had to correct course, basically. Had to change the course of history because the Mule had influenced things. Andrea: So, they would've continued to stay hidden and stay behind the curtain, but they had to step in a little bit, and that's what made it more interesting. That's what made it a good story, I think. So I did not figure it out. Andrea: I thought Tazenda was going to be it, and they were gonna head back there at the end and I was wrong. So I guess I can say that much. Elizabeth: I don't necessarily try to figure it out ever. I just let the story take me where it's gonna take me. Andrea: Just go with it. Elizabeth: Yeah, just let it unfold. Elizabeth: But I did not see, I did not see the ending coming. It was quite a twist. And genius. Elizabeth: If you read the three together then it, like, makes the first one and the second one better in hindsight, but yeah, no, I didn't figure it out. No. But I don't necessarily try. Andrea: I don't know if you had this feeling, but the last book when they talked about this house in the suburbs, it did give me a very picturesque sort of 1950s vibe, and I didn't get that impression until that point. And that would've been about the time that the stories were coming out, right? Andrea: It was like early in the '50s when this was published. Elizabeth: Yeah, I pictured a tree-lined street. Elizabeth: But yeah, house in suburbs equals tree-lined street. But I suppose those streets are now more tree-lined street like I'm thinking, whereas back in the '50s, they may not have been quite the same as what they are now. Andrea: Going back to the idea of, okay, we didn't guess where Second Foundation is, but once the story is complete who do you think was the real villain? Is there a villain and who's the real one? Because the Mule openly alters people's minds and he, is openly hostile, but the Second Foundation is also bad, that they're secretly manipulating people to a predetermined fate so that they can one day rule. Elizabeth: I don't know that it's the plan for them to rule, 'cause they already rule. Elizabeth: The Mule screwed things up according to the Seldon Plan, and so the Second Foundation is trying to correct the course of history back to fulfill the Seldon Plan. And so they are manipulating everything, but yeah, they would argue it's for the greater good, but maybe also it is for the greater good. Elizabeth: So what is the real villain? Power? I don't know. Time? Andrea: The idea that one group of people should be placed in charge of governing simply because decided that was best ... Basically Hari Seldon said, "Oh, we need to create a small ruling class, that will be Second Foundation. First Foundation will solve all the physical warfare and physical problems, but the kind of thinking class will then one day eventually come in and take over." Right? That was what the Seldon Plan secretly, the ultimate goal was. That’s what I got out of it. Elizabeth: I don't know. Is it? Or is, or just the ultimate goal is to change the course of history from one empire to the next, but instead of it taking 33,000 years, we're gonna do these things, or these things are gonna happen so it only takes 1,000 years, and that's the ultimate plan. Elizabeth: And so the Second Foundation, I don't know, the Second Foundation is trying to take over power. I think they have the power, and have always had the power based on how they manipulate things. Andrea: They sort of ruled from the shadows. Elizabeth: Always. Andrea: Secretly, from the shadows. Elizabeth: Yeah. To set the course to fulfill that goal of taking 33,000 years and doing it in 1,000 years instead. Andrea: One of the things that came up in this book with Second Foundation and how they were writing this mathematical formula that was the Seldon Plan, and they were explaining how they would make small, additions or contributions to the Seldon Plan, and that was added by the First Speaker. And they would pass on the position of First Speaker, and that's sort of your initiation into that role is contributing to the Seldon Plan. Andrea: And so, the First Speaker is explaining this process to the next generation or the next candidate, and that process of adding to an existing plan of how the world functions, it made me think of the Constitution. That it was created a long time ago, but we make contributions to it or additions or changes to it because there are things that change over time that couldn't be accounted for when it was created. Andrea: So I thought that was an interesting parallel between using the Constitution as the American version of the Seldon Plan. Elizabeth: Yeah. Elizabeth: But instead of a document, it’s a very complicated mathematical formula that predicts the general swashes, brush strokes of history, instead of a document with amendments and such. Andrea: Right. But that they function in a similar way. The Constitution, it outlines how our country will be run for the foreseeable future. Right? Elizabeth: To expand on that, though, I feel like the Constitution would be more like the First Foundation, because that's like what you think it's supposed to be, and that's what's on the surface, or that's what's shown allegedly transparently, is the Constitution. Elizabeth: But the Second Foundation is more like the people in the back rooms, the people with power and money, wealth, influence, who are actually pulling the strings. Andrea: So I just think that there's a lot in Second Foundation will keep you thinking about our world. Andrea: And the idea of mental control, I'm guilty of seeing an ad on Instagram or some other site online, and then I'm like, “Oh..” I've, seen an ad enough times that I'm like, “maybe I should paint my wall green, or maybe I should buy that product.” Andrea: You are influenced, whether directly or subliminally to do different things, and a lot of it's marketing, but I think there are bigger things that end up influencing people to make choices. Andrea: Not to the extent of having an extra organ in your brain or a special part of your brain that control others, but using technology to influence people through social media. Elizabeth: Is there a demonstrable difference between the EEG of someone staring at a phone versus like, I don't know, 30 or 40 years ago or something? Elizabeth: I don't know. I don't honestly know that much about EEG technology, just that it's in modern contexts is used to diagnose a seizure disorder. There's a change in the electroencephalogram when someone's having a seizure. Andrea: I remember hearing that they did a study of taxi drivers a study of their brain specifically, and taxi drivers had a increased portion or use of their brain for location and mapping, that taxi drivers had like a super developed part of their brain. And then people are losing that ability because we rely so much on technology to tell us where to go. Instead of remembering the way to get there, we just look at a device that tells us, "Turn left at such and such street." We're losing that part of our brain basically. Elizabeth: Are we? Andrea: I'm guilty of that. I use my phone for all the directions now. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: Cause it's just so convenient. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: Well and what's nice it tells you what areas will have traffic, right? If you just use the route that you know the best, you might not be taking the most efficient route at that particular time of day. Elizabeth: But if you're in your hometown and have lived there for what? 10 years now, 10, 12 years, and if you just look at which way is the best and be like, " Oh, am I taking I-5? Am I taking 99? Am I taking, like, around the lake?" And then you just do that. Elizabeth: When we went to go visit my friend recently, she said that when she first moved to Oakland, she purposefully got herself lost. She drove her car around, did not use any GPS, just drove her car around and just purposefully got herself lost, and then from there figured out how to get un-lost. Elizabeth: And so she claims that she knows Oakland better than her husband, who grew up in Oakland. Elizabeth: Anyway… Elizabeth: No, I looked, just looked up that study. They don't use very many people, though. It says the famous 2000 study, and they didn't actually use EEG technology. Elizabeth: They used an MRI scan. I wonder if it was, like, a functional MRI, and it was only 16 licensed London taxi drivers compared to a control group of non-taxi drivers, and they had a significantly larger posterior hippocampus, which is a part of the brain responsible for spatial memory and navigation. Elizabeth: They had a larger one compared to the control group. That's only, like, 16 taxi drivers. Elizabeth: Some follow-up study, 2006 and 2011, they made sure the drivers' brains weren't naturally larger to begin with. But anyway, cause I remember hearing something about taxi drivers as well. Andrea: Right. Andrea: And that’s not something that’s necessarily genetic. That's something that develops I think that develops in somebody's lifespan. Elizabeth: Yeah. Neuroplasticity. Andrea: Mhmm. Elizabeth: The ability for the brain and nervous system to adjust and adapt to the circumstances. Andrea: Right. And I think there's a lot of roles and jobs where it develops certain parts of your brain. For example, if you are a musician, I think that develops parts of your brain more so than others. Or I've heard that actors are able to easily access emotions because they have a certain part of their brain more developed to easily access those emotions, and over time it's like a muscle that gets stronger. So I think it's really cool to think about what our brains are capable of in the future if we apply them. Andrea: So I think that's particularly why I enjoyed all the neuroscience-y type portion of this book. Elizabeth: Yeah, there's a lot more of that. Elizabeth: The second part of the book than there have been in, at any other part. Elizabeth: Who would you recommend this book to? Andrea: I think definitely somebody is interested in classic sci-fi. Similar to how you said, "Oh, Andrea, if you like fantasy, you have to read Lord of the Rings." Andrea: I feel like for someone that likes science fiction, if you like classic science fiction, this is a must read. If you're not into science fiction, it becomes a harder sell. ‘Cuz there's a lot of really interesting ideas, but I think they're more like you said, the rise and fall of civilizations, I think that is a major component to this series, and thinking about the evolution of man and the evolution of society, so some very big picture ideas. You have to put some thought into this one. Andrea: No romance. If you're a romance reader, this is not the series for you. Andrea: What would you say? Who would you recommend this book to? Elizabeth: I'd agree with what you've said so far absolutely. The hardcore sci-fi fans, it's a must. The people who are into maybe some interesting fiction and psychology, sociology, politics could perhaps, but it might have to come with a caveat. Once again, going back to my mantra of don't stop at the Gunslinger. Elizabeth: Don't stop at the Foundation. They get better and better, so you really gotta get through at least the three. And that as you said, even though there is a larger series, you can feel satisfied just reading those three, but you do gotta read the three I feel. Elizabeth: During Independent Bookstore Day, we went to, was it Vargo's Jazz City and Books? Was that the one that at the back had that list taped to the wall, Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: like just printed out two pieces of paper taped to the wall? Of all time. Elizabeth: The NPR Readers Top 100 Science Fiction and Fantasy Books, and number eight is the Foundation trilogy. Of all time, top 100, number eight. It specifically says the Foundation trilogy. It doesn't say the Foundation series, and I'm guessing that this list taped in the back of Vargo's Jazz City and Books in Bozeman, Montana is newer than when the books came out. Elizabeth: And so, I'm taking that to mean that people think that this trilogy is the necessary top eight of all time. Elizabeth: So then it opens up the question of: Do you feel like you wanna read the other, what is it, like three books? Do you feel like you wanna read those? Andrea: I think instead of reading the other books, I wanna watch the show, because it is a show on Apple TV+, and they've come out with three seasons so far, and it's renewed for a fourth season. So I think instead of reading the other books, I'd rather watch the series and maybe read some other Asimov books, like the I, Robot series, move on to those instead. What about you? Elizabeth: I think I will read them, but not right away. I think I might, you know, let some time go by. I got some other stuff I gotta get to. Elizabeth: But I think I will eventually, you know, especially knowing that they're, generally speaking, pretty quick reads. Some of these series and sci-fi and fantasy books especially, it seems like, can sometimes get really long. Elizabeth: The fantasy books, I wanna say, more than the sci-fi books. And so it's, these are nice 'cause they're pretty quick. So knowing that like, oh, maybe sometime next year I wouldn't be surprised if I decide, oh, I'll go find the fourth one and, you know, check back in and over time read them. Andrea: Even though they're relatively short, they are pretty dense. There’s a lot of content within the short length of the book. Elizabeth: You're right. Even though they are short they are a denser read. Elizabeth: But, you know, a denser read at 224 pages still isn't that bad. My copy was 279 I think you know? So… Andrea: Mine was 256. Mine was shorter than yours. Elizabeth: Ooh. Andrea: I will say that I did really like how the last two books in the series had strong female characters. And that's the part that was missing for me in the first book. But it definitely redeemed itself as a trilogy in my perspective. And so I think, as a woman reading this, the first book you're like, “Really? Is it just all men in this future." But women are consistently underestimated, and I don't know if that's a point that Asimov was trying to make, but they end up being the ones that change the course of history in a sense. Yeah. Andrea: And whether they are being influenced by outside forces, that's, uh, that's a different conversation, but… Elizabeth: And you didn't, maybe didn't wanna keep reading after the first one because there weren't those strong female characters, but then there were in the end, and they, they're the ones that, made all the difference, or did they? Yeah. Elizabeth: What would you rate this book, and what would you rate the trilogy overall? Andrea: I would rate this one a four and a half. It was almost a five. If it was only part two, I might have given this a five-star rating, but the first part with the Mule was a little slow, and I couldn't remember as much of it. So first part wasn't as good. The second part really picked it up, and it, it felt like like the finale of a fireworks show. Andrea: There was so much going on. You were constantly second-guessing who the real Second Foundation person was, who was being influenced by who. Who's really making choices for themselves versus being outside influenced. And I enjoyed that a lot. So yeah, four and a half. What about you? What would you rate this Elizabeth? Elizabeth: I agree. Four and a half. That is exactly what I thought to myself too. 'Cause also, once again, I feel the same way. There were parts of it that were kinda hard to remember. I said that about this in the last book. I didn't necessarily remember it as well. There was still a little bit of that, but not as much, and it was better. Elizabeth: I think each book got better, and I think that's reflected in the ratings that I've had. So yeah, I think a four and a half is, just not quite five-star, but better. Andrea: Right. Elizabeth: And then I think the trilogy overall I would give, at this point, a f- four-star rating. Elizabeth: I think it kinda all, sorta average out, it's it's good, but the fact that it, like, kinda takes a bit through the first, better into the second, before finally it kinda gets to the best so far in the third, it's yeah, okay, I'll say four stars overall. Elizabeth: But I wonder, 'cause this happened with you with The Lord of the Rings, and I called it! It was going to happen. Elizabeth: You gave The Fellowship of the Ring four stars, and then what you gave Two Towers and Return of the King each five stars, and then at the end you wanted to go back and change your rating to five stars. So I wonder since there is more of this, right? It started as a trilogy. You can read the three books and call it good and feel fine about that. Elizabeth: But I think check back in with me in a couple years and maybe with the other books in the end, maybe the whole thing is just, like, just then really blows your mind. Andrea: Well, I think probably if I were to be reading this when it was written, I'd probably give it five stars. I think if I were in that era at that time, I would give this five stars. But my personal enjoyment level is closer to four stars as a trilogy, but I can understand why it would be a five-star read from a classics perspective and in terms of what Asimov was trying to accomplish with the series, I think he did a good job of that. It's just not necessarily my personal cup of tea all the time. It's good, but it didn't have my heart, in it as much. I like it when I get emotional about a book, and this is more of a book that you think about rather than feel …in your … in the feelings. Elizabeth: There's a lot more thinking. Elizabeth: A lot more thinking and a less feeling. Andrea: Yes. Yeah. Elizabeth: Yeah. Elizabeth: Do you feel like it belongs in that, a top 10 list of best sci-fi fantasy of all time? Andrea: I think it does, because it influenced so many people too. I think this was really a groundbreaking series of its time and went on to define the genre. So I think it deserves to be on the list. I think the fact that we are still talking about it today and it feels relevant, So I will say if there had never been a female up, I don’t think that I’d feel that way, right? Elizabeth: You'd be pissed. Yeah. Andrea: I’d be pissed, but no. Andrea: The women were still important, and I appreciate that. Elizabeth: Yeah I could see how it belongs in the top 10 of all time, sure. 'Cause then, you know, as you say, it may have been a better read when it was written, okay, cool, and then over time it maybe doesn't read as well, but it has had such a lasting impact. It does still, and, continues to stake its claim at the top. Andrea: Yeah. And I mean, I feel like if I were still in school, I would wanna go to a class about psychohistory. I wish I could discuss this at a college level lecture. Elizabeth: Like it was real science? Andrea: Yeah, like, if your assignment was to create a mathematical formula to predict history, like what would you do? Andrea: And I think it's a really interesting concept. I wish I had more time to really explore that. But I think I have other things that I'd like to focus on. Elizabeth: So many books to read. Andrea: So many books to read. Elizabeth: Unfortunately, that concludes this week's episode. We've reached the end of another cosmic journey on Galaxies and Goddesses. Andrea: Don't worry, the adventure never really ends. There are always more stories to explore, and let's be honest, more bookish tangents for us to go on. Elizabeth: Hey, that’s part of the fun. If you loved today's episode, subscribe, leave a review, and share the magic. Andrea: Stay tuned for our next episode, where we'll be dreaming up the ultimate vacation to our favorite sci-fi and fantasy worlds. Elizabeth: In the meantime, keep your mind fueled by the magic of stories. Andrea: And never stop chasing. The worlds waiting for you between the pages. Thanks everyone!