Latest / Murders to Music: Crime Scene to Music Scene (Streamline Events and Entertainment) / Surviving the Unthinkable: The Weight of Ashley's Families Secret

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Surviving the Unthinkable: The Weight of Ashley's Families Secret · Murders to Music: Crime Scene to Music Scene (Streamline Events and Entertainment)

• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I was so overwhelmed I was hoping that they'd be able to catch him.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Would I be able to prove enough what had actually happened throughout my life?
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Are these people who are strangers going to believe me?
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Murders to Music podcast.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: My name is Aaron, I'm your host and thank you for coming back for another week.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I've got a very special show in store for you, but before we get there, let's take care of some housekeeping things First.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: I have an email address murders2music at gmailcom.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Murders2music at gmailcom.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: If you guys want to reach out to me, you have any ideas for the show, you have any follow-up questions, you want to offer support, you want to get in touch with any of my guests, that is the way to do it.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: I promise everything will go answered and I really love that feedback and participation.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Remember that you can follow us on Instagram at Murders to Music and find that comment and review section of your podcast host.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Leave that review, leave those comments and help the little algorithms.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, tonight's show is not one of a G-rated nature.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Tonight's show is one that is covering a very sensitive topic.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: This is probably not designed for kids.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: If you have kids in the car, I might suggest turning this off and turning it back on at a later time when you can hear it.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I do believe that it's very important.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: I think this is probably the most impactful show that I will record.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: There are a few victims throughout the career that stick with you.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: There are very few victims throughout the career that stick with you.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: There are very few victims throughout the career that turn into survivors.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: The young lady I'm going to introduce you to tonight her name is Ashley.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: She is the strongest, bravest, most courageous survivor that I had the pleasure of meeting and working alongside in my entire career.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I am so honored to have her as a guest on this show and I'm honored to be able to portray the message that she wants to portray tonight, the message she wants to share with everybody else out there that may be in a similar situation.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Once this episode was recorded, ashley contacted me and wanted to do a part two, specifically talking about the impact this situation had on her immediate family, her loved ones, her thoughts of suicide and what was like after the trauma ended.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: We're going to bring her back next week for part two of this episode, but before we get there, let's go ahead and dive in to part one.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to welcome and introduce you to my friend, ashley.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Welcome, ashley, welcome to the show.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: You are very welcome.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: So when we so we first met it was a long time ago.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: I'll get into how we met here in a second.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: But when we first met it was a long time ago and over the years we've kept in touch a little bit here and there, and I've said on some of my previous shows that after folks meet me in my professional world sometimes they don't want to hear from me, and I've really appreciated being able to communicate with you over the years just to kind of keep up you.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Out of my entire career.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: There's probably half a dozen cases that will stick with me forever and that could be because of a subject matter, it could be because of something I seen or something I heard, and your case is one of those.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Your case is a case that just your strength and your willingness to do what was right, even though you knew it was going to be painful, stands out heads and tails above my other victims or the other survivors and I use the word victim I'm pleased it's not a negative connotation, it's just how I meet a lot of people.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: They've been put into a set of circumstances that has been painful and, uh, that's how we originally met.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Before we get to that.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Let's just talk a little bit about you.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: So tell me a little bit about yourself.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Where did you grow up?
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Uh, what was your family life like?
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Uh, and siblings, that type of stuff.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I grew up in Gresham, oregon.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time out in Boring, oregon as well.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: That's where my grandmother's home was at.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: We would be there frequently.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: So family dynamics.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: My mother, from a very young age for me, had a lot of medical problems, and so I would help with her care.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Essentially, I am the oldest of three children.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: My sister and I are nine months and three weeks apart, and she was born prematurely and she also had some medical problems growing up.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: And then my brother is the youngest and there is about an eight year difference between him and I.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: My father was the head of our household and he worked primarily at Intel in Hillsboro.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: He did have some trade jobs that he worked after his injury, because he was in the Army For the first several years, I didn't actually know him.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: We were living with my grandmother at the time before they got back on their feet, and when he was injured he spent a couple of years hospitalized, and so when they came to go and pick up my father from the hospital, I actually thought that I was going to go pick out a daddy from the hospital.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, um, which is kind of comical.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Um, let's see here.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I didn't mean to pause there.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: No, it's, it's totally okay.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: This is.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: I really just want to have a conversation.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Um, so your sister you said your sister is how much younger than you?
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Um nine months and three weeks apart okay, and she had some medical conditions, anything serious, what?
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: What would she have going on?
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: just in a nutshell, um, so she was just born, uh, prematurely, um, and she had a lot of issues with her lungs being underdeveloped.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Um, so she would develop a lot of things like pneumonia, asthma, you know things of that nature, and she was a little bit delicate when she was younger.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: And were you guys all born in the Portland, Oregon, Gresham area?
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, my sister and I were both born in Portland Oregon, and my brother, he, was born at Emanuel in Gresham Oregon.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, and your brother is the youngest, correct?
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: And what about him?
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: When he was born, was there any medical conditions or anything like that?
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: No, not with him.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: No, he was just.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: I believe my mother had gestational diabetes and he was just a big baby when he was one.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: All right, and then so did you go to school in Gresham.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: I did actually.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: So East Gresham Elementary School is where I went to school at.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Our home was actually within walking distance of that school.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Our home was actually within walking distance of that school, and so I went to grade school, kindergarten, through fourth or fifth, excuse me and then the middle school was directly next to East Gresham and I went to Dexter.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: McCarty Middle School there in Gresham, with also within walking distance from my home.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Overall, as far as uh, so did you at some point?
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Did you go to school with your sister?
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Were you guys in the same school together?
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, we were in the same school together, um, separate grades, but just same school.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: She was right behind me.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Did you and your sister get along growing up?
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: We were close in age Most of the time.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: When we were younger we did get along and then as we grew up, there's some little bit of sibling rivalry, I guess you could say, for lack of a better term.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: There were times that we did clash, but my sister was very outspoken as a middle child and I was more.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: I follow the rules, you know, kind of like a wallflower, I guess you could say.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Whenever we went to school she was very social with her friends and her teachers and stuff like that and making those connections.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: It was a bit more difficult for me to make those connections with, like teachers and friends.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I still have people that I knew in school, that I cared for and I considered them friends, but I never was able to get very close with them Like how I could see.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: It was much easier for my sister to do um, and it's not.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: There was times where I I believe I I held them at a distance, um, but then there's times where I think that it was just difficult for me to get close with, with those people Um yeah, so after how old were you when you graduated?
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: I was 17 years old when I graduated from high school uh in 2006.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, and what about after high school?
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: What did you do?
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: As far as a career, to go off to college, what were you?
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: What'd you do then?
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Well it was.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: It was difficult for me um leaving high school, um, cause school was mostly like my safe place to be, um, and I was terrified of not going to school anymore and it's like, oh geez, what do I do now?
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: You know, um, cause the environment that I grew up in wasn't exactly the most positive environment to be in and I at first was a little bit lost, didn't know what to do.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: But I did know that you know normal adults, you know they go to.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: They either go to school or they get a job.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what I wanted to be just yet.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: So instead of beginning college and plus I didn't know that application process or what I would do my mother never went to college.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: My father was the only one who did go to college.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: After his injury, the VA paid for him to go to Mount Hood Community College where he got his AutoCAD engineering degree.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: So I went and I got it.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I knew I had a love for animals.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: I always connected more with animals than I did with people, because for me they're a bit more honest.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: I felt like animals.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: They kind of, you know if they like you upfront or if they don't, you know they don't, uh, pretend to be your friend if they don't want to be your friend.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: You know, um, and so I was closer with with animals than I was people, and I knew that I always wanted to be a veterinarian growing up.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: That was my dream as a child, um, so my very first job was at a petco in Gresham and I was a cashier and I thought it was like the coolest job in the entire world, you know, um, and I worked there for a little while, um, before I ended up spending time visiting my grandmother and my cousin Lori she's not deceased and her husband worked at a ranch out in Riley and I loved horses, always loved the idea of, you know, being a rancher's wife or something like that.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: You know, living out in the middle of nowhere with all these animals, you know, kind of a thing, and they allowed me to come out there for like a summer and spend some time out there living with them and working with them and learning how to.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: You know what a rancher does, you know, and it was the best experience that I've ever had Most peace I've had as well, you know just being out there in nature with animals, and at night we would come home after, you know, putting in a hard day's work, and we would sit out there on the back porch and we'd be cooking on the barbecue, you know, and the backyard, which was like a couple hundred acres of this ranch, is where the horses were kept and at night there was like this ritual that these horses did and they would run through the field and you'd hear like the wind blowing through the grass and you'd hear the Creek with the water and everything and you'd hear the horses kind of snort and stuff.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: And that was just the greatest experience of my entire life.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: How old were you when you were out there?
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Um, I want to say well, I was 17 when I graduated, so from like 18 or 18 or 19 years old, I believe.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: And when did you?
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: How long did you stay out there for?
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: 18 or 19 years old, I believe.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: And when did you?
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: How long did you stay out there?
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: For?
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Um, no longer than maybe a year, I would say.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: And then I ended up going back home.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Um, because of, you know, financial means.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a stable income in Prineville, so I couldn't, uh, stay out in that area.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Stable income in.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Prineville, so I couldn't uh stay out in that area.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: What about your relationship with your mom and your relationship with your dad?
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, was it just a normal relationship as far as everybody getting along in the house all day?
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: You mentioned something about alcohol.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Was there any alcohol or drugs in your home that influenced people?
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: When I was younger, it wasn't as much of an issue, though my father did like to drink on occasion.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: However, when I was older and I had left the home, that's when the alcohol use and the drug use did increase.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I did know there were times periodically where he would use marijuana, but it wasn't a consistency until I had left the home.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: So my mother, our relationship has always been strained, is, I, I guess, a good way of saying it.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: My father, growing up, he always showed favoritism towards me versus my sister.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: My sister and him.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: They did clash a lot.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: She was very headstrong, very verbal, like I was saying earlier, and she had no problem.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: They would yell a lot.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: My father, he, uh the best way to describe him would be uh, rage, essentially.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: So you always felt like you were kind of walking on eggshells, uh, where you wanted to make sure that you were doing everything right, to make sure that dad didn't get angry or explode, you know, and scream and yell, because he did have a tendency to do that.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Um, and my mother did not like, uh, the favoritism that he showed me versus my other siblings and so because of that, um, she would treat me a bit more harshly and poorly than my sister or my brother, and I don't know if that was exactly a way where she was trying to be like an even parent or not.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a slight bit of like a jealousy that she had because of how much time I spent with my father and how much he showed favoritism, you know, just like actions, words, gestures, you know anything.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of favoritism that he did show me.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: And he said your dad was injured.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Was he injured in the army?
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, um, he was in operation desert storm and he had a I believe he was a mechanic and he was working on a tank engine.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I guess they lift, they hoist them on straps.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: From what I was told, um, they lift, they hoist them on these straps, from what I was told, um, and there's like a turbo exhaust that comes off of the engine and he was, um working on this engine and one of the straps apparently from the manufacturer was faulty and so when the strap broke, it hit him because it fell down and like twisted and it hit him and it shoved him into the ground and from what I was told and from what I remember, with stories that he told me growing up, was that it shattered and fractured his pelvis and it shoved his head into the sand and thankfully there was other members there on base of his platoon or squad, I don't know what you call it and they pulled him out of the dirt and out from underneath the engine and the turbo exhaust and then he was flown from where he was based at to, I believe, germany and was treated there and then flown from Germany to the States where he spent at least a minimum of a year in traction.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: And how old were you when you went to pick out your dad?
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: I believe, if I remember correctly, I was roughly like two to three years old, if I remember right, because I remember walking down this hallway with my mother and I remember where you would look above and there was this long hallway that connected like one section of the hospital to the other section of hospital, and I remember there being glass that goes um for the walls up and over.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: And I remember walking through this tunnel and thinking, wow, this is the coolest thing I've seen and how beautiful it was and how the the the sky was inside of the building, you know um.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: And then walking down to a nurse's station and then going into a room where I saw this man who was lying in a bed, and I remember seeing the bags for weight, for traction, and I remember my mother going and speaking with this man, but I didn't know who he was.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: I thought I was just picking out a daddy who needed a home.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: And then afterwards I remember walking away, going through that same tunnel I guess is what you would call it and my mother telling me then that no, that is your father.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: You know, and I still couldn't comprehend that I wasn't just picking him out that he was actually my biological father.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: So another thing that I learned when I met you was your dad was involved in some kind of motorcycle gang or motorcycle club or something like that.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Can you tell me a little bit about that, and is that something that was all through the years growing up, or was it something that kind of came on towards?
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: You know, at what point did that come into your world?
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: So when I was a child growing up, he was not involved um in any type of motorcycle club or gang, anything of that nature.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: He was actually on the praise and worship team um at our church that we went to because he was a drummer.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Um, I think it's four square church, I don't remember the name of it, I'm sorry.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: No, it's okay um, but um he became involved um in the motorcycle club um after I had left the home and was out and on my own.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: He had always expressed interest and, um, you know, like motorcycle clubs, things of that nature, because growing up um, my father always had a garage band, you know, and always he was always involved in heavy metal music, you know, and I would grow up listening to the sound of heavy metal music being played in the garage and just vibrating the house all day long, you know um.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: So he'd always expressed interest in that.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't until I actually left and was no longer there um that he got involved in these groups he had called, I believe the name of the group that he was involved in was called the.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: They called themselves the dead end cruisers, if I remember correctly, which he had told me one time that he was affiliated with, I think, the Gypsy Jokers, because he had shown me on his jacket there was this patch, something about Simon Says, or there was some type of patch that he could have on his bike or his jacket and other bikers or club members um would see this patch on there and would never steal um their motorcycle or anything like that, cause they were afraid of repercussions from this essentially a game.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Um, that would you know.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Collect everything back and then there'd be some consequences for for them.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, so in about 2015 is when I met you.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: 15 is when I met you, and I just want to read an excerpt from the newspaper that sheds a little bit of light on your story.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: The woman says Gresham's father molested her 1,000 plus times and delivers a chilling statement to the open court.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Investigators say Long confessed to sexually abusing his daughter, although he denied it was more than 1,000 times.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Monday he pleaded guilty to two counts of first-degree rape, one count of first-degree sodomy, and a judge sentenced him to 20 years in prison.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: As a child, long's daughter said she will always be afraid of what might have set her father on a rage.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: She dreaded the sound of her bedroom door creaking open at night because she knew what was about to follow.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I often felt dirty trying to cleanse my body from his touch, but I could still feel it everywhere.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about why we met.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: On a day in September I am sitting in my cubicle it's like every other day and a call comes back that there is a woman in the lobby that wants to report a sexual abuse that occurred within the family.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: And it was a delayed report.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: It was not ongoing and would I be available to take that call.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: So I did and I stepped out of the lobby and that's where we first met.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Can you tell me a little bit about your story?
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Let's start in the beginning, and the first thing that really sticks in my mind is when you spoke about going off to kindergarten as a five-year-old getting your picture taken in front of the dishwasher.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: I believe the dishwasher was black, but I haven't read this report in 10 years and you were there with your sister and I believe you had a stuffed animal or something.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Can you tell me about that incident and just kind of start there?
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, okay.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: So I remember, yes, I was starting kindergarten, I had been in preschool prior and I remember standing there in our kitchen and my mother taking that photo of us.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: And I know, when that photo was taken, that the abuse had been ongoing for a while prior, at least a year or two, from what I can remember, from what I can remember.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: And I remember looking at my mother and thinking you know, I mean looking at the photo and seeing it now, like seeing how sad I was, you know, and how is it that you cannot see what it is that I'm going through?
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: You know, and I remember standing there with my sister and taking that photo, I was excited to go to school, but at the same time, too, I had this huge secret that I had been carrying for as long as I could remember, knowing that I couldn't exactly talk to my mother about it.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: What was your secret?
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: What are the memories that you have?
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Would you like me to talk about my earliest memory?
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, so my earliest memory about my abuse was when I was about three years old.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: I remember being in my mother and my father's bedroom.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: My mother had left to go shopping.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: She did this quite often when she was able to leave and go shopping and she would be gone for extended periods of time and we'd be home with our father and I remember being in the bedroom with him him and we had laid down to take a nap, essentially um with him in bed and I remember him touching me and just this, these thoughts of confusion.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: You know, because this is my father, this is someone who is supposed to love and protect me and wouldn't cause me any harm, you know.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: But at the same time too, this feeling deep down inside that something just wasn't right, um, that it was wrong, but confusion, not knowing why it's not okay, why this is wrong, or knowing why I'm feeling this way.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: My sister, thankfully knowing now she doesn't remember these things happening to her, um, but I I remember seeing these things happening to her as well, um, I remember at one point in time, after he had been touching me and touching himself, touching you above or below the waist.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, below the waist, I'm sorry.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: No, it's okay, no, it's totally fine.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: I cut you off.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: But you were saying he was touching himself also.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, I remember seeing movement under the blankets and his hand, you know, touching himself, and I remember him taking my hand and making me touch him down there.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: That's why sometimes, still to this day, I don't like someone grabbing my hand, forcing anything, because it happened quite often and he had me touch him on his genitals and then there came a point in time where he had pulled down my pants and then he's touching my sister while he's touching me as well.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: And then there was a point in time where he had actually picked me up and sat me on his face and he began to perform oral sex on me.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Up and sat me on his face and he began to perform oral sex on me.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: I didn't like the feeling, I didn't understand what was happening.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: And I remember hearing my mother's car pull into the driveway and immediately you know the entire time that my father was doing these things he had his eyes closed as if he was asleep, um.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: And then, immediately, as soon as hearing my mother's vehicle pull into the driveway, I remember him just immediately throwing me off of him onto the bed, and then he jumped up and went running into the restroom, um, and I remember being confused because he was doing both of these things to us and we're just all of a sudden tossed onto this bed.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: You know, um, and I remember pulling up my pants and coming out into the hallway, um, and I remember my mother being at the bottom of our stairs because our home was a, um, a split level home, where you enter the door, you either go up the stairs, you go down the stairs, and I was standing at the top of the stairs.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: I remember looking at her and telling her mommy, and, and I said my sister's name I don't know if I should say this in this that's okay, you don't have to.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: And I remember saying she saw daddy's pee, pee and my mother started freaking out and she was like what, what are you talking about?
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: And so here I am thinking, oh my gosh, I'm in trouble.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: I'm in trouble Because it wasn't, it was more directed at me than it was like an adult being like what are you talking about, honey?
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: You know to where that child then wants to open up to that adult.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: You know, she was very aggressive, I guess you could say, in her questioning.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Aggressive, I guess you could say in her questioning.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: And, um, I remember at that point in time then then my father had came out of the restroom pretending as if he had gone to the bathroom, um, and then he came to the top of the stairs and he said that megan had seen him when he was, uh, in the restroom trying to go to the bathroom, you know.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: And she was like, oh, okay, and just kind of like brushed it off and, you know, acted as if it was something that was you know, whatever you know, and this was your earliest memory.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: And this was before that picture was taken in front of the dishwasher.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, and it was quite a while before that photo had been taken in front of the dishwasher.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, as a small child, trying to put dates, times and a frequency on how often things are happening is often very difficult and it's not something that in my professional world would really try to do.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: You know we already have enough to know that there's some kind of misconduct going on.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: After that picture was taken, you often kindergarten that day knowing that you had already been sexually molested.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: You didn't know what it was at the time, but numerous times Tell me what the life was like, kind of through elementary school, you know pre-pubescent, if we will.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: What was life like?
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: What was the abuse cycle like?
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: And we don't have to get into tons of details, but just kind of frequencies, ideas to what was going on.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: You mentioned a door creaking, if you can remind me what that meant, so on and so forth.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, so a lot of the times it was some form of unwanted sexual type of contact, whether it grabbing up my bottom when I'm walking up the stairs in front of him, you know, groping, you know, um, a lot of the times, um, he would come in at night, yes, in the middle of the night he would either be um telling my mother that he was going to the garage or something which the entrance to the garage would be, you know, through the basement.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Um, a lot of the times, there would be times where he would, um essentially be acting as if he was having sex with me, but with clothing.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: On.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: A lot of the times he'd be, like rubbing himself on me, um, he would walk up behind me and I would feel his erection pressing into my back and I knew that, oh, okay, that's what's going to happen, that's what he's intending and wanting.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: And generally, yes, the abuse did happen at night, because he would sneak away and go to my room, he would abuse me, and then he would go out to the garage for a moment, you know, and like play the drums or something, and then he would come into the house and go upstairs.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: And I also know that there were times too when I was little, where I did witness him coming out of my sister's room at night too.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: So I knew in my head, like I knew, what he was doing to me when he would come out of my room at night too.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: So I knew that he was doing those things to my sister as well when she was very young.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: And so because I saw and I witnessed that and I knew it wasn't right and I knew instinctually that I wanted to protect my siblings, you know, I would essentially sacrifice myself for my loved ones.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: How old were you the first time that he had sex with you and penetrated you?
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: So, um, since going to counseling cause I do have a lot of uh memories that are suppressed Um, I do have a sometimes difficulty recalling some things, but I believed at the time that I was 12, roughly around that time frame.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: But since speaking with you last and going to counseling and having all this talk, therapy and bringing things up and having things connect better, bringing things up and having things connect better, I discovered that I was actually nine when he essentially raped me for the first time, because he would come in at night and I would pretend to be asleep and I would keep my eyes closed when he would do things to me and because I didn't want to see your face, what was happening.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you pretend like you're, you're not there, that it's not happening.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: You know, um, and I found out that I was nine at the time because the next that morning it was my birthday and we had gone to my grandmother's house, uh, for the ice cream party that we had and there was a boat that uh like a trough essentially, that they had filled up with ice cream and all kinds of fun things for the kids at the party and everything, and I had remembered being at my grandmother's home and having blood in my underwear, um, and so I had yelled for my mother because I didn't know what that was and I thought I was dying.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Uh, you know, but, um, at the time they thought that I had um started my my menstruation cycle at the age of nine, when actually that was the blood from him raping me that morning prior to going to the birthday party.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Distinctly, uh was because that was the first time when he would come down to to break me um, where he made me open my eyes and he made me look at him because he wanted me to know that he knew, like, what was happening, essentially, like like a power or control thing, and he made me look at him so I could no longer pretend like it wasn't happening, you know, and keeping my eyes closed, you know, and instead that reality it was, it was right there, that it was okay, this is, this is what is happening, and I know, and yeah, that was that's why 12 really stuck out in my brain.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: So during those years?
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Um, how many times I mean and this is kind of how we got to those thousand numbers plus numbers but uh, about how many times a week do you think this abuse would occur?
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Average, average, um.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Like I said earlier, it's really hard to determine that because it was pretty much daily, if not it was multiple times per day, whether it was something as far as an extreme as rape or just groping.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: You know just groping, you know, um, and it's so hard to come up with that number, especially when you're in the middle of that, but I mean easily at least.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: At least you know a thousand times, like you had said, because this occurred over such a long time frame what was that time frame actually?
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: how long early on two, three?
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: When did this?
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: When was the last time?
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, so the last time that anything happened, which it was rape, was when my brother had injured himself.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: I wasn't living in the home anymore, I was still living out in Prineville, I had established myself and was doing well.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: I had established myself and was doing well and during that time frame was when my father had become very involved in the gang, drugs and alcohol, because he didn't have, essentially, myself there to have as an outlet for abuse.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: That I've learned through therapy.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: I know that my brother was 16 years old when he injured himself.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: He was riding a longboard skateboard down this really steep hill and he had injured his shoulder and his knee and had to have surgery.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: So of course, you know, I left Prineville and I left to go be there, to be there with him during his recovery, because at the time I had become a CNA and I was working in a hospital and and I wanted to be there for my brother.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: You know, and it was during that timeframe that the last rape occurred and you know silly me, you know I had thought that you know, because it hadn't happened for a little while, that that wouldn't happen again you know I was thinking that, you know I'm an adult and I'm out of this household.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: You know it's not gonna, not gonna happen anymore, um, but I had gone back to the house with him and my mother was following behind in her vehicle at a later time because she had to stay there for some type of paperwork that she needed to do.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: And I was there at the house with him alone and it happened again.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: I was standing in the kitchen and he came up behind me and again I had felt his erection.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I guess it had reminded him of times prior and in the moment you would think that you would fight, flight or freeze, and generally for me I would freeze because of the abuse that I had endured for such a long time frame, because my dad was also physical as well.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, there was times where, um, he had picked up a board and beat me with it one time, um, because I didn't do what he wanted me to do and it didn't act the way that he wanted me to act, with that excitement, um, for what the sexual abuse that he was, he was doing to me, um, and so that fear of, you know, like that physical pain, um, generally you tend to, uh, go along with those things in a hope of, like, self-preservation, you you know, and so I had frozen in that moment, and that's when the last rape had occurred.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: How old were you, Ashley?
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Let's see here 16.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: I think I was like 23, 20, 23.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: It was roughly before I met you and started reporting everything.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: So I think we've got to.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, I and the listeners have a good idea as to what this is like.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: We're looking at abuse from about 20 years old or, sorry, two years old, three years old, up to 23 years old, so we're looking at about a 20 year time span.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: That abuse ranges from digital penetration, oral sex, multiple victims, a sexual abuse or assault occurring at least daily your entire life abuse or assault occurring at least daily your entire life, penetration and rape at the age of nine, first significant rape that you recall because of opening the eyes and seeing him, and at that point you had tried to close your eyes and just take it in order to protect your siblings, your sister and sacrifice yourself for others, and that was a significant one.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: That you originally reported to me was at 12 years old, correct?
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: Then we're up through high school.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: We don't have to get into tons of details, but I'm assuming the abuse continued all through high school.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: In fact I know it did.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: The abuse continued all through high school.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: In fact I know it did.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: The abuse continued all through high school, correct?
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, it did, and there was a point in time where a pregnancy occurred because of the abuse.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: And if I remember correctly, that was a birthday trip to the coast.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Am I correct or am I getting too mixed up?
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: No, you're not getting mixed up, but yes, it was a birthday trip to the coast.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: So for my sweet 16th birthday, oh, that's kind of bitter.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't have said sweet 16th, pardon me.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: So for my 16th birthday because the pregnancy had occurred.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Ashley, real quick.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: You're a child at this time.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: For you to think about this as what should be your sweet 16th birthday is absolutely acceptable.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, I know.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: It's okay, so go ahead.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: So your 16th birthday, you're at the coast.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Tell me about it.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Tell me about it.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: So, prior to leaving to the coast, um, I had been at home and I didn't know, uh, that I was pregnant at the time.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: I, um, I remember standing there in the kitchen and just the smell of food in general just sickened me.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: I couldn't, I didn't know what was happening.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know why I felt that way, um, but it was terrible.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: And my mother and my father are standing in the kitchen together and my mother gives this look to my father and it was kind of like the like the eyebrow raised, look like, you know, like she's pregnant kind of a thing, she's pregnant kind of a thing.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: And then I, you know, of course, I found out afterwards that I was pregnant because he had gone and purchased things for me to bank account, to go Christmas shopping in the middle of summer, and he had actually taken me to an abortion clinic in downtown Portland to have an abortion performed, so there wouldn't be any continuing evidence of what he had done to me.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: And so then we ended up going for my 16th birthday to the coast and, um, he didn't allow anybody else to go with us.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Um, for my birthday, um, he claim telling my mother that he wanted to spend some quality time with his daughter and decided to take me to the coast for my birthday.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Now, during that entire time frame that we were there for that I believe it was a weekend, um I never once saw the coast itself.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I didn't see any you know sites or you know anything, you, you would think.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Essentially, he just took me to a hotel room on the coast.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: We were on the coast, um, but he took me to a hotel room and, prior to getting to the hotel, we had stopped at I think it was a, a Safeway, some type of grocery store, um, and I knew what was going to occur.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm not stupid.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I had experienced this my entire life, you know.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: So I knew what was going to happen and I had't want to be as present in the moment because I don't want to remember these things, you know and so I had convinced him to purchase some alcohol for me and he had purchased some wine coolers, I think it was and then he took me back to the hotel room and from the moment that we walked into the door of the hotel room, I was instructed to remove my clothing, and I, essentially, was not allowed to wear clothing while we were there and I remember sitting on the couch with him watching TV, you know, and he had handed me the alcohol to where I could begin drinking, um, and he was drinking as well, but he had harder alcohol for himself, um, and the entire time that we were there, um, he had just raped me for the entire weekend, um, and then, prior to leaving um, because there was times where, um, I was loud or vocal because of the pain that I was experiencing, um, and he told me to tell people, if anyone asked while we were leaving um, that I was his girlfriend, because I always looked a little bit older than what I actually was and I acted a little bit older than what I actually was for my age.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: And he told me that if anybody questions anything, or if there was a phone call from the management of the hotel or anything like that, that I was just to tell people that I was his girlfriend and that I was fine, everything was okay.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: We were just enjoying a weekend alone, together at the beach.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: You know, there was a lot of times where he would pretend to like these, these fantasies, where you know, I was his girlfriend and he would tell me things of where he was going to leave my mother and we were going to, like, run away, you know, and it would just be him and I living together by ourselves in peace.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: You know, and he would tell me too that, um, sometimes the reason why he did what he did with me was because he found his soulmate and his daughter.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: And how sickening is this that I found my soulmate and you're my daughter, and why would I want to do these types of things which he's talking about sexual things with my mother, when she made him feel like such a piece of shit is what he would say, you know.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: So instead he would do those things with me, um, because he felt this, this connection.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: You know this, it was all a bunch of BS.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Sure how.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: How old were you when you got pregnant?
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: If you can remember 15, 15, or 15 years old, I presume.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Roughly yes, Okay.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: And part of the investigation that I did.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: I actually went and located the abortion records at the abortion clinic I did.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, wow.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: So I have the abortion records.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: It was part of the case file, it was part of the investigation, and so I have the abortion records.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: It was part of the case file, it was part of the investigation and so I have that and I was able to look at it.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: You know, and out of all of my cases over the years and having dealt with thousands of child sex abuse cases over my career, or thousands of I've been involved in them I have investigated thousands of been involved in them or thousands have been involved in them.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: I have investigated thousands that have been involved in them.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: We were really able to put this case together through the investigation and a lot of it was because of you, and I kind of want to move into the investigation portion of this and talk just a little bit about.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: Well, before we go there, I want to back up.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: You said something earlier that I want to run back to a couple of things, of course.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: So you mentioned favoritism from your mom.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: There was some favoritism.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: Your mom may have been some jealousy there.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: Just quickly, do you think that had something to do with this relationship?
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Was your mom having a mother's sense that there was something going on, or closer than you guys should be, or what are your, what are your thoughts there?
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Um.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: I know this may sound a little crazy, I guess you could say, but deep down inside um, I know that my mother knew um and whether she was afraid of confronting that or she didn't know what to do or how to respond, how to act, you know, because she has no source of income and these children either way.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: It's not okay to not protect your children, um, but I do think that somewhere she knew, she always will claim that she did not know Um.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: I know now, in the future, as an adult, after everything um, that she was aware.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, and you said that you found it difficult to make friends and connections in school.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Um, is this the backbone for that, the reason why it was hard to make friends?
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Um, essentially all of my abuse?
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, because, um, I had both my father and my mother, who were both very abusive in different ways.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Um, obviously, my father, it was physical, sexual, verbal, you know um.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: But my mother, I experienced a lot of mental, emotional abuse from her.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: There was physical as well, but she was not nearly as physically abusive to me as my father was and I just was always.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: I lived in a constant state of fear.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: I was afraid to become close to anyone because I was afraid that they would hurt me or they would disappoint me or let me down or not do what they say they intended to do.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: And for me it was better for me to protect myself by keeping people at a distance, um, because it was just safer even though I still wanted those connections which leads us back to another comment you made.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: Um and it's just kind of a statement uh, living in a constant state of fear.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: You found school your safe place, so now school.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: It's time to be done with school and you're out in the open world and there's a whole lot more opportunity for exposure there.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: What a terrible place to be as that 15, 16 year old girl.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: You graduate at 17.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: By the time you graduate, you have been raped thousands of times.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: You have been pregnant by your father.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: You've suffered an abortion.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: You have not been able to make your own decisions in life.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: You've been living in fear of telling anybody.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: You can't make personal, inter relation, interpersonal relationships or connections.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: Now you have graduated and you are out on your own and you have all this exposure.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Um, absolutely, absolutely horrible, horrible situation that you you said it a second ago somebody that's supposed to love and protect you put you into the shittiest position that they could absolutely do.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: And I know oftentimes people will journal these things and I've seen a lot of my victims journal and write things down.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Did you ever do anything like that?
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: I did Um at one point in time, uh, when I was in high school.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Um, I knew I didn't know when, I didn't know when I would have the strength to actually report him, um, but there was a timeframe where I knew that I wanted him to pay for what he did to me.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: And then also, you know, I wanted to document something to where I had some type of record to keep, because sometimes it was hard to recall some details when your whole life's pretty much kind of a blur because of the constant stress and trauma that you're going through're going through.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: You know, you kind of have this lack of identity and still don't know who you are and I'm still still figuring out to today.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: But yes, I did actually journal that and purposefully, during my childhood my father had um.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: During my childhood my father had a gentleman who lived with us the majority of my life growing up.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: His name was Mike, who lived with us and I did record in a journal and I left the journal purposefully out in the downstairs living room and the journal was discovered, I'm assuming by Mike, and was taken and given to my mother while I was in high school and then she confronted me about this journal and asking me if it was real and if it was true, what was written in there.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: And of course, because you know I'm a child, granted I'm, I'm a high schooler, but still I'm.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: I'm a child, granted, I'm a high schooler, but still I'm, I'm a child I was afraid and I would.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: I backpedaled and I lied and said that no, it wasn't true.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: You know, and you know stuff like that.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: And I had also told a friend of mine in high school who would frequently be at our home and spend a lot of time with us.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: I told her about the abuse one time.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: It just kind of spilled out.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: I couldn't even speak it ever beforehand.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: It almost felt as though there was times where I tried to tell somebody some adult, a teacher, someone and there was times where I try to tell somebody, some adult, a teacher, someone and there was times where it felt like he, his hand was over my mouth, if that makes any sense at all and I just couldn't, couldn't say anything, I couldn't speak and my throat would close up and I couldn't say anything, you know.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: But then I had this friend who, um, I did become close with and care very much for, and, um, she became close with my sister and all of my family, um, and then I, I did tell her of this and she reported it to my mother, which I think was roughly around the same timeframe when this journal was discovered.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: So not only did she have the physical journal, um, saying what had happened in it, but then she also had my friend coming to her and saying hey, this is what happened, this is what she told me, and you know she's, she's telling an adult, um, and then, of course, she comes to me and asks me about this and I backpedal because I'm afraid and I'm like, no, no, you know, oh, it never happened and stuff like that, you know.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: And I learned later on that my mother did have this journal and that she had thrown it in the fireplace and burned it instead of going and using this as physical, I guess, evidence, you could say, to try and protect me in any way, shape or form.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Were you able to maintain any normal boyfriend relationships or sexual relationships, uh, throughout your teenage years?
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: uh, kind of, I guess, not really um my first not not health, not not healthy yeah, not very healthy.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: No, I want to move.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: I want to move into the investigation side of this.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: Something I've never done is I've never experienced what it's like on the other side of that door, and you probably remember the brown door you walked through out of the end of my lobby.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: Come in, there's my lobby, all the way to the end.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: There's a brown swinging door.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: You step in.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: There's two interview rooms on the right-hand side yes, door.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: You step in.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: There's two interview rooms on the right hand side, yes, um, I I know from speaking to you that in this last rape episode was kind of the catalyst for the disclosure.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and tired of being a victim, tired of hiding, tired of protecting your was older.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: There's nobody else to protect.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: If it tears the family apart, shit happens.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: And that got you to the police department.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: When you went up to that window and asked for some help and you knew somebody was going to be out in the next five minutes or so.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: What kind of thoughts and fears are racing through your head in that moment?
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, I was panicking.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: I was so overwhelmed, um, and I was hoping that they'd be able to catch him.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: Would I be able to prove enough?
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: Uh, what had actually happened throughout my life?
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Are these people who are strangers, going to believe me?
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: You know, um, who are strangers going to believe me?
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: You know, um, I I.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Is there enough evidence?
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Um, will he actually go away for a long timeframe?
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Um, and then also, at the same time too, I'm conflicted because this person is my father you know, I'm also conflicted.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: I have a little bit of guilt for avoiding him, um, but I wanted to, because my parents were separated at this timeframe and having marital issues, and I knew that he was dating another woman who had a daughter, and I could not live with myself, knowing the type of person and what he's capable of, and knowing that he could harm this other woman's daughter, potentially in the same way that he was harming me for so long, and so I just I could not not say something.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we met that day.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: You came in, you met um and overall, and granted um, not not every experience is created equal, so I understand that.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: What was your experience like?
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: Uh, briefly, we don't have to get into tons of details, but briefly, what was your experience like working alongside me and the system throughout this process?
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: It was overwhelming.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you know at times is how I felt, but also it felt like it went so quickly I was.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: I was shocked when you contacted me because you know, this is the first adult who I've had in my life.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: Granted, I was an adult too, but there was this first person who actually did what they said they were going to do for me.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: And to get that call from you, I'm getting emotional, sorry.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: I was emotional a second ago, so it's okay it's all right, we'll make it right we'll make this, that's right.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: So here's this individual who doesn't really know me and yet I'm disclosing some very intimate details and embarrassing details and shameful things.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: That needs to be done and I understand, you know it's a process, it needs to happen and he tells me you know, I am going to get your father, we are going to find him because he had fled to another state at this time and that he will be charged and you will have justice for what had happened.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: And to get that phone call from you saying that you got him and that he confessed, I was just shocked.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: I was relieved, I was, you know.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: There was a sense of happiness, knowing that he wasn't going to be there any longer to continue to hurt me.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: And then there was a little bit of fear going.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, what is it that we have to do now?
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: But throughout the entire process, every step of the way, you were there.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying and, um, it was the one person I can actually rely on, you know, and you were there.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: You did what you said you were going to do.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: You explained the next step in the next process to me and you didn't treat me with any type of you know, because sometimes, with this sensitive content, sometimes people, you know they act as if you're broken.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: You know you were sensitive to the things that you needed to be sensitive to, but also you treated me like a person.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: You know you were like this is what's going to happen and this is why and I was so extremely grateful and appreciative of that and it made such a huge impact on my life knowing that there are people like this out there, you know.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: So, thank you for that.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Sorry, um, but I know I would not be where I am now in my life if I wouldn't have met you, if I wouldn't have been brave enough to walk through those doors and go through that process with you, you know cause, I know it was difficult, it was hard for both of us.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: You know talking about those things, um, but I am eternally grateful.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you, you're welcome.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: Speaking of emotional, yes, you know, I I did my job for so long, um, and ultimately you and I have spoke a little bit offline, where you know about my exit.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, you don't often understand the impact that you have in lives.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, you don't understand the size of the needle that you're pushing.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: All right, so, thank you, I absolutely loved meeting you and I loved working your case and even reading the headline a minute ago, I was emotional.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah in day cases home with me.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: I was numb as a cop, I had no nervous system.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: I was numb.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: I couldn't be at your sentencing because I was working on a homicide.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: I think I was out of town and, um, when I read the article in the paper, I cried and cried and cried that night in bed.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: Um, your case has had a profound impact on my life.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: So, thank you.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: The investigation process we'll touch on pretty quickly, but we spent hours and hours and hours that day talking and I got into every intimate detail Something I was never scared to ask a question.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: And I got into every intimate detail, something I was never scared to ask a question, and I got into every intimate detail.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: There was One of the things that is really beneficial in your case.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: There were three things A strong victim survivor that is willing to tell a story.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: The pretext phone call we made to your father story.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: The pretext phone call we made to your father For those who don't know, pretext phone call is a call that I would set up.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: Ashley was talking to him and opening up the door for these conversations and I can tell you that, out of hundreds of pretext phone calls that I've done, ashley's was absolutely remarkable and it's not because the way this works for folks who don't know.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: There's a phone call, it's recorded.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: I'm listening to both sides of the conversation.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: I have a pad of paper, I call it a script and I just write notes and the person in this case Ashley, is reading those notes and it may be chicken scratch because I'm having to think on my feet and think fast and I'll write something down, but a lot of the conversation is going to be spurred based on how the other party answers.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: So if Ashley were to jump into this and say, dad, I'm here with the police department, they want to record a conversation, tell me about having sex with me.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: He would never talk.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: So Ashley has to be an actress to get into this conversation and then be thinking on her feet.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: And you know, I don't recall exactly what we use to get it open that door to conversation, ashley.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: But what I do remember is there was a moment where I'm writing notes and you can't read them.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: There's a hiccup, you pause, yes, and then your dad questions.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: He's like hey, what's going on?
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: Almost a little scared.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: You know what are you doing?
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: Is there somebody else there?
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: And uh, do you remember what you said to him?
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness, yes, yes I, it's comical now to me, but, um, I had told him because I had drove out as a situation, the scenario, and I was out by this field, in this pasture, and you know, talking with him, and I had beat up on my feet.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: I couldn't think of anything else other than that there's cows in Prineville, it's you know country.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: And I told him something about oh, I'm sorry I got distracted there's these cows out here in the pasture.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: I wasn't sure what was happening or something, but he ate it and he bought it and it worked.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: But I just, oh, I thought at that moment when I did that that everything was over, everything was over and that I messed up and the whole world was crashing down on me, you know, but I just somehow by the grace of God, was able to pluck that out of my brain.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: You did an amazing job.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: The third thing that really sealed the deal was once he was arrested.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: I had an opportunity to go interview him and I interviewed him for about three hours.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: The first hour was a bunch of denials, and then I used your words against him to open the conversation and that was he had his loves confused.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: You know, richard, I have a daughter myself and I love her dearly.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: I have a wife and I love her dearly.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: I can find that definitive line between my wife and my daughter, but oftentimes, richard, some people can't, and I think you might be one of those people.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: I think you might wanna be those people that have a hard time defining what is appropriate love for your daughter and appropriate love for your wife.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: And sometimes you get those loves confused.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: And after all, you found your soulmate in your daughter and I think you got your loves confused and you were showing your daughter the love you're supposed to be showing your daughter.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: And I think you got your loves confused and you were showing your daughter the love you're supposed to be showing your wife.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: And he, uh, acknowledged yeah, that's exactly what happened.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: I love my daughter the way I'm supposed to love my wife.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: What does that mean you know, and then we go down that road.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: Uh, when is the first time that you touched your daughter in a sexual way that was intended for your wife, but on your daughter while she was two or three years old?
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: And we literally walked through your entire story with him and he acknowledged a sexual acts upon their people.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: So he was.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: I was able to take him and get him to confess to a ton of stuff which just validated your entire story.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: So, as you're standing outside those doors of the police department wondering, is anybody going to believe me?
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: Is there ever going to be evidence?
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: This has been ongoing for 20 plus years.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: You do know, and other people listening need to know, that there's other people like me out there that are willing to listen to you and go the extra mile to dig up the dirt, to go find the abortion records, to contact victims and witnesses, to take this all the way through to the end and make that phone call to say Ashley, he's in custody, he confessed everything.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: It's over.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: He confessed everything it's over.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: And I know that there's people out there who are victims and there's people listening to this who are going to be unreported sex abuse victims or physical abuse victims if they are even thinking about stepping out and getting help or telling or making a report.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: What is from a survivor's point of view?
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: What is one thing you can tell them that would help push them over the edge and just give them the confidence to do what they need to do to stand up for themselves.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: You know, mostly you're not alone, because a lot of the times I felt like I was alone, I was isolated and that I had no one.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: It's scary going through that process but in order to protect yourself, to protect other people and maybe you could be that light for someone else to be able to come forward as well, and it is such a liberating and freeing experience.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: Afterwards you have a chance to look back at it all.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: Afterwards you have a chance to look back at it all and I know that it's scary in the moment and that fear is such an overwhelming thing.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: But if you just take that chance and just take that step to get past that fear, you have your whole life afterwards ahead of you.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: You know, and you can live a beautiful, freeing life if you just take that step have you had the opportunity?
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: uh, you mentioned a second ago to do therapy, that type of stuff.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: Has that been effective for you?
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely is therapy a bad word?
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: no, it's not.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: I thought at the time, of course, course, when I was younger, that it was.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: It was this negative thing because there's some taboo thing around it.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: But it is not a bad thing at all and you are worth it, your mental health is worth it, and therapy is so beneficial in many, many ways.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: And therapy is so beneficial in many, many ways.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: One of the things that you were scared of other victims are scared of and that is destroying the family.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: So things happen, dynamics happen.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: Specifically, I want to get very specific with this question.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: The journal was discovered by a friend, given to mom.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: Mom read it.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: You backpedal, you reported to an adult adult or somebody reported somebody.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: Somebody goes to mom, mom confronts you backpedal.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, mom discarded the journal into the fire to destroy the evidence and your written statements.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: As a result, that has come to a point of contention with you and your family and, as I understand it, you guys no longer have a current relationship.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: Is that correct?
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's correct.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: I have learned people who are not good for you or your mental health, regardless of who they are, toxic is toxic.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: And if they are not there for you, if they are not a positive influence on your life and they don't love and care for you as they should, that setting those boundaries for yourself.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: Boundaries are okay and it is good to follow through with your boundaries to protect yourself, and it's okay to lose that connection that you have with those people who should be those people for you but are not.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: Um, I, you, just you cannot continue to live with that toxicity in your life because you will not thrive.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: All they will do is continue to to take from you instead of giving you life is there anything that you want to say that we haven't covered about this situation, or to the people that are out there listening to this?
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a lot.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: I know it can be overwhelming, but it is so important for anyone who may be going through this or has gone through this to just report it.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: You know it's life, you know to fight your life is so worth it and that so many beautiful things can come from something so ugly and terrible as this.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: It took me a long time to get to that point and to learn that, and then having a couple of people who are extremely positive influences in your life to help support you and get you to that place, it definitely helps.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: Summoning the strength to go to the police was tremendously difficult, she said.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: I used to never even be able to whisper it out loud.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: What my dad had done to me, she said.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: Whenever I tried to speak about it, it was as though someone was holding their hand over my mouth hand over my mouth.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: This is a statement made in 2015, which is the same statement that was made tonight.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: The truth is the truth.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: Ashley, I absolutely, even with your husband in the room, love you as a human being and I love the fact that I got to be a part of your world and help you through this thank you um, in ashley's words, as we close after reporting this, getting on the other side, you can live a beautiful life.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, that is the murders to music podcast.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: We love you and we'll see you next week.