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Born Yesterday · The Next Reel Film Podcast

• 0:03
  Pete Wright: I'm Pete Wright.
• 0:05
  Andy Nelson: And I'm Andy Nelson.
• 0:06
  Pete Wright: Welcome to the next reel. When the movie ends
• 0:09
  Andy Nelson: Our conversation begins.
• 0:11
  Pete Wright: Born Yesterday is over. To all the dumb chumps and the crazy broads, past, present, and future, who thirst for knowledge and search for truth, who fight justice and civilize each other, and
• 0:24
  Pete Wright: make it so tough for crooks like you and me.
• 0:36
  Pete Wright: Born yesterday, Andy, 1950.
• 0:38
  Andy Nelson: 1950. We're kicking off our platinum performances, the nineteen fifty best actress Oscar race series. We've already discussed All About Eve. So Yeah. That's not gonna be part of this discussion, but it's kind of like the kickoff essentially for this because we covered that back in our Bette Davis series for which that film had two best actress nominations for Bette Davis and for Anne Baxter.
• 1:05
  Now here we are with our next film, Born Yesterday. Judy Holiday won the Oscar for her performance as Billy in this. And, yeah. So we're now discussing this as we kind of continue our steps back in time from 1925 to or from 2025 to 1925. Here we are at 1950.
• 1:27
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:29
  Pete Wright: Where do you where do you stand on the movie?
• 1:31
  Andy Nelson: Well, I guess my my question for you before we jump into that is, had you this had a remake in the nineties, which seems like something perhaps we would have known about or seen. It had Melanie Griffith and Don Johnson. I don't know if it's where they met, but presumably, or at least the people knew they were together and so cast them together, and John Goodman. Wow. Had you heard of had you heard of that one at all?
• 1:56
  Pete Wright: No. I mean, certainly haven't seen it. I mean, it probably there I mean, I'd heard of Born Yesterday. I had never seen this one. Maybe I had heard it in passing talking about that one, but I I had never seen either of these movies.
• 2:09
  Andy Nelson: Okay. Okay. Yeah. I I like, I feel like we should have heard about that movie in the nineties, but it must have been one of those movies that, I mean, it wasn't received very well. You know, I'm sure we'll mention that when we get to sequels and remakes.
• 2:22
  But Well, you
• 2:23
  Pete Wright: could totally see how Melanie Griffith would have been cast as that part, though.
• 2:26
  Andy Nelson: You can totally see that. You can absolutely see that. So that was kind of it. I really didn't know anything about this stepping into it. I didn't even know what the premise was.
• 2:38
  And so but, you know, one of our friends of the show, Curtis, who tunes in regularly had posted a link about with on YouTube, the the best best actress Oscar race, this particular one. And that was an interesting watch to kind of get a sense as to the performances and everything. And so I watched that first to try to get a sense. And so I saw clips of it. I go I was like, okay.
• 3:01
  I guess I can see why Judy Holiday would win. And then I started the movie, and it just, like, I fell in love with her so fast, which is funny because I was like, okay. This is kind of gonna be a Lena Lamont performance from Singing in the Rain. Right? Like, that's kind of where we were going.
• 3:21
  Pete Wright: I did. I thought I'm gonna hate this woman for the next ninety minutes.
• 3:25
  Andy Nelson: That's exactly what I thought. Like, it started. I'm like, okay. This might be hard to do for the feature length and Yeah. Not as the protagonist, as somebody we're meant to really care about.
• 3:38
  But I fell for her. I felt like the comedy in the performance, the timing of her lines, it was a real surprise. And like, I laughed out loud so much. Like, every time she would say something or make a move or a gesture or something, I just like, I was in it. So I I really enjoyed my time with this film.
• 3:57
  Pete Wright: I I did too, but it took me a bit to get there. Be because it's, you know, it's a movie that's a little bit hard to stomach emotionally in 2025. Right? So I have to put my head back to realize what it was doing as as a cultural fossil. Right?
• 4:13
  Like, it is this perfectly preserved artifact of what progress looked like before it learned to name itself, you know, before we had all the words to define it. And it's an interesting mirror on this, like, mid century liberalism, liberal idealism, and gender relationships, and all these things. But to watch it today without thinking about that is like, why am I watching this just straight up trauma between these people? Until you realize that this is a movie that's doing a victory lap around all of those things that a woman can can elevate her status without marrying into money or marrying into, you know, prestige. That she could in fact distance herself from those things through education and and make something better of her life is really fascinating.
• 5:06
  Like, it's a fascinating step. It's I think her performance totally transcends the script and her voice and the first fifteen minutes with her. It's funny because,
• 5:21
  Andy Nelson: like, say all that. And I kind of have to laugh because I'm like, it kind of is as relevant today as it was in 1950 with lobbyists ever. Lobbyists and and, like, the the dealing with, like, these crooked lobbyists dealing with politicians and the wives that they have that they don't necessarily think much of and the abuse and everything. So it's funny that you say all that because I'm like, it didn't feel like a fossil to me. It felt kind of like, wow.
• 5:55
  Maybe we need more of this right now. Maybe we need some actual people to like, hey. Let's walk around, and let's actually look at this declaration of independence and talk about what it actually means. Oh, yeah.
• 6:08
  Pete Wright: Fair point. Fair point. Yeah. No. It's it is very relevant today.
• 6:12
  Andy Nelson: It's yeah. Yeah. I I was laughing constantly through this. I'm like, wow. This is I mean, I I I see your point.
• 6:19
  I totally understand your point with your comments about that. But at the same time, I'm just like, this is weirdly, like, a timely film to look at right now because it feels like it's worth kind of, like, taking a look at our government and not just our government, but just, like, educating ourselves. And there was a line, oh, man. I wish I I should have written it down, but, that they said about the value of actually, like, of learning things and and, like, the importance of some of this stuff. And I'm just like, yeah.
• 6:51
  Yeah. This is all there's a lot of people who could, you know, take a few lessons from this film today.
• 6:58
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's a it's a good point and and well taken. I think the the piece that I that I find so and maybe this is maybe what you're describing is exactly why I find I I find the movie. What I would catalog is a rough watch.
• 7:13
  Right? Because ideologically, Harry Brock is an insufferable SOB. Right? Like, I hate him so much. And Broder Crawford is amazing at being somebody that I just detest on every level.
• 7:29
  Anti intellectual, anti progress, anti like, it's just he's a backroom dealer. He's he's a giant oaf of a man with zero sophistication and just all great timing and luck that he got into his wealth through the business of of trash, essentially. A junkyard. Right. And that that says so much.
• 7:51
  So this is one of those movies where you have to watch and think, hate that guy. I hate how I'm feeling about it. And then realize, oh, right. That's the point. Right.
• 7:59
  Supposed to hate that guy. I'm supposed to be in a place of true and they go all the way to the point where he is physically abusing her. And you realize that they have set up the who is in these movies, in this period, who is normally the aspirational figure. Right? The the the figure of prestige and wealth and champagne all the time, and the private elevator and the the private flat and all of these trappings of success, and they've made him the antagonist bully.
• 8:32
  And we're supposed to feel that way. This is a victory lap of of progress on screen at the time because of both what it's saying about the time and what it's saying about the other movies that are celebrating this kind of wealth and prestige. And I think that's a that makes this film to really sit in a kind of a special place.
• 8:53
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I think that there's something interesting about his character that I feel like I should know more of Broderick Crawford, especially because like the year before, he had, I I I think, won best actor for All the King's Men, which is one I still haven't seen. But like, he's great at playing this this crooked guy who sees her as somebody who's gonna bring him down, like, after that first meeting with the congressman and his wife. He doesn't recognize his own faults. He only recognizes hers.
• 9:30
  And I think that's a key part of his character that we get here. And and, yeah, like, he's clearly a bully. He's clearly abusive. You know, he's just kinda like this this terrible person. And it's it's fascinating to tell this story about this woman who is like, had been a showgirl and now has latched on to this guy because of his money.
• 9:57
  I mean, the first thing we see with them is, you know, they get out of this car. These cars are racing around Washington DC. They pull up to a hotel, and they get out with all this luggage and everything. And she doesn't speak. It was great not having her speak for the first bit and as we get to kind of understand her.
• 10:15
  And it's not one, not two, but three fur coats that she throws over the arm of the bellhop to take up to the room. So you're getting a sense as to, like, the ridiculous, extravagant wealth that they have and throw around. Like, that was a fascinating way to to start this film and and get a sense as to this relationship and who these people are. And you don't understand really who we're dealing with as far as who Billy really is until later after William Holden has kind of come in and started working with her. And then we start getting a sense, like, even when they even when she first meets William Holden and after after Harry has hired him as Paul, after Harry has hired Paul and Paul goes to meet Billy, like, one of the first things that she says to him is like, are you one of those talkers or would you be interested in a little action?
• 11:19
  And I was like, wow. Okay. This is an interesting message that we have here. There's this kind of relationship that we have between Billy and Harry. Now Harry's hired this guy to educate her.
• 11:33
  And one of the first things that she does is seem to say, hey, do you wanna just go to bed together? You know? And I was like, wow. Okay. Interesting.
• 11:42
  Very interesting the way that we're setting this story up.
• 11:47
  Pete Wright: Yeah. What are like, what are we meant to celebrate? Who who wins in that exchange? Who is our audience avatar? The one who just gets to go to bed and play around or Yeah.
• 11:58
  You know, completely taken advantage of either way. So we also have, however, this sort of layer on top of it, which is our civics lesson tidally wrapped in hypocrisy. Like, that he's there. They're in DC because he's attempting to build a relationship with a political business relationship with the senator. How's that how's that hit you?
• 12:27
  Andy Nelson: I mean, that's one of the things that I found very fitting for today. You've got this junkyard dealer who's got these, apparently has locations all over the place as we find. And here he is trying to, we never really get into the nitty gritty of what the deal is. We just know his lawyer is there. His lawyer feels sick about himself and having been doing this all this time, and set this meeting up to meet this congressman and his wife, and to start cutting a deal with this guy to essentially get more of what he's after.
• 13:02
  It's very crooked. Like, the way that I saw it is like, he's very crooked. He's trying to get this congressman. It's interesting. This you talk about kind of like the the history lesson and everything with the kind of The US.
• 13:17
  And I feel like it it's interesting. I I feel like there's a little bit of a thank Frank Capra esque view, like mister Smith goes to Washington, of what the ideals of Washington should be like that we have here. Paul very much represents that as he takes Billy around and shows her all these different, places in Washington, whether it's the I I can't remember the buildings that they went to to, did they go to Monticello? They went somewhere that's Thomas Jefferson's place? They go Lincoln Memorial.
• 13:49
  They oh, here it is. Lincoln Memorial National Gallery of Art, Jefferson Memorial Library of Congress, the Capitol Watergate Steps.
• 13:56
  Pete Wright: And she has her walking silent walking montage, like, you know,
• 14:00
  Andy Nelson: down the
• 14:00
  Pete Wright: We have to have plaza
• 14:01
  Pete Wright: and
• 14:01
  Andy Nelson: the Right. The little learning montage with the patriotic music playing. And so we kind of get that sense that feels a little it felt very Frank Capra esque. Yeah. But post World War two, I'm like, okay.
• 14:14
  I can see where they're coming. They're wanting to kind of like have this celebratory feel of what The United States is all about. You know? And so I was like, okay. I I I get it.
• 14:27
  It it it was a little much, but again, because of the time, I felt it was it was fitting and it was fine. The fact that we have our bad apple, Harry, trying to influence a congressman who doesn't seem to sway that, if anything, felt a little false. Maybe that's just through today's eyes, though.
• 14:50
  Pete Wright: Well, there's a great speech by his his attorney who says, you know, they swayable congress members of congress don't come along very often. Right? Like, these these guys are here for their integrity. So once in a great while, you'll get one who will swing for you for money. But and and that, like, does your stomach not turn when he's giving that speech?
• 15:12
  Like, that's horrific. It's horrific to hear him, give that speech when you're absolutely right. That speech is the Capra esque peak of the civic story in this movie, which is you and your junk dealerships cannot fight the ideals that we have set up in this great nation. And it it is that that maybe that's the part that feels the most fossilized from 1950 today. Right?
• 15:41
  That feels like such a bygone era.
• 15:44
  Andy Nelson: Well, but at the same time, it does make you wonder, surely I mean, it wasn't true then either. Right? And so it does make you wonder, is it fossilized or was it just Kukor and the playwright Garcin Kanan? Was it an a way to look at it in an ideal viewpoint? You know, like, where's the line there?
• 16:13
  Pete Wright: Yeah. No. You're right. That that's a that's a really good point, but I don't see a lot of movies and TV shows today celebrating the integrity of Washington.
• 16:23
  Andy Nelson: Well but but again, it came right after World War two. So you can see why they would be doing that, but still, I I just feel like even then, I'm wondering if it rang false or I'm wondering if it Oh,
• 16:36
  Pete Wright: that's a good point.
• 16:37
  Andy Nelson: I'm wondering if it felt like it was aspirational or something. You know? I'm trying to like, I I can't imagine people just were feeling like our congress is always there for us. Or maybe that's just maybe that's just this modern cynicism that we've, I mean, we've grown up with because we have never seen anything post Nixon. Like, we've only seen post Nixon.
• 17:01
  Pete Wright: Right?
• 17:01
  Andy Nelson: And so Right. Maybe that was the point where people stopped believing in this sort of idealism.
• 17:09
  Pete Wright: Man, we are the ideological trash remnants of a bygone age.
• 17:18
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Oh my gosh.
• 17:21
  Pete Wright: Okay. I, you know, I think that the the the general vibe of the movie as we're as we're looking at what Kukor is trying to appears to be trying to do, it reminds me that it it it feels like it has such a a massive piece in the puzzle of American comedy, of feminist cinema, of ideological cinema in a way that I I'm it surprises me that I had never been tasked to watch it before. It feels seminal in that way, and it's still a pretty simple story. Right? It goes a few places.
• 18:00
  Mostly, it's in the giant flat that they have.
• 18:03
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Very much you can see the play at work.
• 18:06
  Pete Wright: Yeah. You could totally see the play. I'm obviously, it it should be noted. I've never seen the play either. I've never read
• 18:13
  Pete Wright: Yeah. The
• 18:13
  Pete Wright: Yeah. And yet, I feel like the the production itself had a sense of momentum to it, even just watching Crawford pace back and forth that made it feel much, much shorter than its running time. Like, it it just moves this movie. And and as a play, as an adaptation of a play, I didn't feel the time. The the production just really soared.
• 18:40
  Andy Nelson: It was yeah. I mean, I thought it was fantastically crafted. I guess, you know, Albert Mannheimer is who has credit as the screenwriter, but apparently, George Cukor wasn't satisfied with his adaptation of the play. So I actually had Garson Kanan, the playwright, come back in to readapt the play again because of the writer's guild and everything. He didn't receive any credit.
• 19:06
  So I that's always interesting. But I think between QCOR and Kanan, and I'm sure the editor and everyone else, but it just it felt it was fluid. It moved fast. It's actually interesting, because I think one of the things that probably helped this feel so natural is this is something that Q Core did that apparently I don't know. I've never heard of this before or since.
• 19:31
  He did rehearsals of this as they were prepping it, but he did it in front of a live audience of people who worked at the studio Wow. To help the actors figure out the like, which lines got the best laughs after after laughs to figure out how long they needed before they could start, you know, in with the next line and stuff like that. And so it really helped them figure out the pacing, what was working, what wasn't. So I'm wondering if a lot of that is one of the reasons that this film feels so just naturally told. You know, it just it moves very effectively.
• 20:08
  Pete Wright: God, that feels like such a like a Desi Arnaz move.
• 20:12
  Andy Nelson: It's totally something you could get away with back in the studio era when you're just like, money wasn't something that people really had to worry about. The studio just had all the money. I mean, they did. But I mean, the studio, they're just like, hey. We need a few more weeks.
• 20:26
  And George Kuker was a known director. And so they're like, okay, here, take the time. Do what you need to do. It's it's it feels different that, that they were given this sort of breathing room to actually figure this stuff out. And it paid off.
• 20:41
  I mean, Judy Holiday is hilarious in this. And to your point, like, this feels like something I should have known more about. Like, she is so funny. Her her performance is just like, every moment of it is like the way that she after Harry is blustering and yelling at her, the way that she's like, yeah. You know, the way even just that, when she like, she changes her voice to, like, respond to him sometimes.
• 21:09
  It very funny.
• 21:11
  Pete Wright: She's very funny, but it's it's even more funny maybe that both you and I come into this movie thinking, oh, I'm going to regret my time spent with this character. Right? Those first few minutes are a little bit rough, and I'm sitting thinking, wondering, how is it that she has such a claim? This ought to be a wild ride. But by the by that final exchange when she finally says, I ain't scared of you anymore, Harry.
• 21:35
  I'm I'm not scared of you. And we haven't talked about the fundamental gambit that she's playing with Paul, that he's not she's not married to Harry, and he put all of his business dealings in her name as a way to keep him clean. So by extension, yeah, the attorney keeps saying, you gotta marry her because she owns everything. And if anything ever goes awry, she walks with our business. And he doesn't wanna marry her.
• 22:06
  He's dragging his feet. Well, that's the rub. Right? By the end of the movie, she's able to take his business, and she tells him, I'll sell one business back to you, one lot junk lot back to you every year. And did she say 900 lots?
• 22:25
  Andy Nelson: No. It was I think it was 26.
• 22:26
  Pete Wright: Like, 100. It
• 22:27
  Andy Nelson: was, like, 26.
• 22:28
  Pete Wright: No. It's more than 26. No. Think 26. I think
• 22:30
  Andy Nelson: it's only 26 lots. Yeah. Because, I mean, twenty six years is still a long period of time. Yeah.
• 22:34
  Pete Wright: I was thinking nine hundred years we're talking about, you know. Are we are we in the heat death of the universe yet? I don't know. Anyway, that's a long time. And so Xi is going to maintain ownership, controlling ownership of his business for a lot of years.
• 22:50
  And I I think that is that's a nice comeuppance. That was a satisfying comeuppance.
• 22:56
  Andy Nelson: Well, you didn't mention, like, part of the caveat of agreeing to sell him back one business a year is that he behaves himself, is that he is going to perform his business responsibly and no longer break the law, which, you know, it'll be interesting to see how well that works for him if he's able to actually go clean.
• 23:19
  Pete Wright: I don't think he can. I don't think he can because what is he doing really? Like, he's buying off senators, you know, through this junk business, but it's not a junk business that he's doing. Like, he's a criminal. He's there's something going on.
• 23:33
  He's laundering money. He's doing something badly.
• 23:37
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I mean, that's something we really never get a sense of is what is the actual crime that he's committing in the way that he's running his businesses. We just know there is something. We don't know Right. The specifics.
• 23:51
  And so it's it's fine. You know, we don't need to know. We get a sense from Harry that he is bad the way he behaves. It makes sense. It's no surprise, I guess, that he's he's doing it by scheming and and through illegal means.
• 24:07
  Pete Wright: Yeah. I I just feel like like when he gets home, somebody named Stinky Charlie is gonna come and say,
• 24:15
  Pete Wright: how did it how did
• 24:16
  Pete Wright: it go in DC? Right?
• 24:18
  Andy Nelson: Well well, what was his was it his brother that was always hanging around who always looked like he should be drunk? He had the hat.
• 24:25
  Pete Wright: Was that Eddie?
• 24:26
  Andy Nelson: Like, he was wearing, like, a he was wearing a fedora, but it was always like rumpled. Like, he just looked like a total bum, and he'd always give him his like what was it? Like a rum and gin no. Rum and ginger ale or something? Some drink that I was like, ugh.
• 24:38
  That sounds awful.
• 24:40
  Pete Wright: Bad. Just bad. Yeah. I I I I know. I think that was Eddie.
• 24:46
  And they I mean, at one point, they're actually are roughing him up. Right? They're actually threatening to to rough Paul up. So it's clearly they're they're into some bad news. I don't see any hope that he's going to be able to go clean.
• 24:59
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Which which leaves Billy in a great position. You know, she's she owns all these businesses and I mean, he's gonna have to go clean because he's not gonna get any money out of it, is the thing. Like, that's the thing. Like, he'll have to figure out some way, or he'll just come up with some other schemes and I don't know.
• 25:16
  But it'll be interesting to see. Like, it would be interesting to see where things go from this point. Now that she's figuring herself out and in love with Paul and off to get married. That's how did the relationship, the fast relationship between Billy and Paul play for you?
• 25:32
  Pete Wright: Largely unbelievable. You know, I I recognize there are a lot of triggers and a lot of ways that you can kind of justify the fast movement of that relationship. Right? There is a thing in cinema as love at first sight or experience. He was definitely the romantically triggered by her willingness to learn and, you know, him being brought in as a a tutor.
• 25:58
  It's very much kind of an educating Rita vibe. Right? Like, he's he just has that that's the turn on it feels like for him. But the fact that it moves so quickly, and it felt like it was all in service of, like, the CODA punchline at the end when they're pulled over by the cops, and the cop says, give me your license, and he hands over their marriage license. It was almost as if the punchline was written before the gag, right, before the joke.
• 26:27
  And that just make maybe I'm just cynical about these kinds of of speedy romances, but I did not believe it. I did not find him as magnetically charming maybe as I would have needed to. He he felt a little bit milk toast for me as a as a romantic foil. I don't know. How about you?
• 26:47
  Andy Nelson: I mean, I can see all that. I also didn't really have a problem with it. You know, I thought that it was fine for the movie that we had. I like William Holden. I think he's great.
• 26:56
  In one of two movies, we'll be talking about this series. I certainly prefer him in the other one, that being Sunset Boulevard. But still, I thought he was fine here. And I did think it was interesting in the scope of it that she, Billy struggles reading without her glasses. And so this was like one of the first times you see the reverse of the typical trope of the the cute woman, but she wears glasses and the protagonist or the guy finally convinces her to take her glasses off, and suddenly now he falls in love with her.
• 27:28
  Pete Wright: Yes.
• 27:28
  Andy Nelson: This was kind of the reverse where she's she doesn't wear the glasses, and he gets her to wear them finally, and they end up falling in love and getting married. So I thought that was kind of funny.
• 27:38
  Pete Wright: Yeah. She be she becomes intellectually attractive and Yeah. Celebratory of that. I that's I did not I did not make that connection, Andy. That's brilliant.
• 27:45
  This is the this is the reverse. Yeah. How I wonder how many movies do that.
• 27:49
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Clearly, not many because they loved having the women take off their glasses. But I liked that she put her glasses on, and and then they fell in love. So, you know, I can see the issues with the relationship. I guess for me, in the scope of this kind of that romantic comedy element of the story, it played fine.
• 28:09
  Like, worked fine for me. I was happy to see her get away from Harry. But in a way that also didn't feel like we have to escape in the middle of the night or anything like that. Like, she's Oh, no. Like, I was actually kind of surprised that they set up this whole thing for Paul to sneak into Harry's room.
• 28:27
  She's she's talking to Harry and the lawyer in one of the apartments. They've got, you know, this was a production code thing where the studio required them to, since they weren't married, they couldn't sleep in the same place as George Kukor very much complained about this element. But thought that it played well in the scope of things that made it fun. So Paul steals the stuff out of Harry's room while she has them distracted. They go to look for the paperwork after Paul had left, and she just flat out tells them, oh, well, yeah, Paul just took it.
• 29:03
  Yeah. Like, I'm like, interesting. Interesting. Like, it always surprised me with things like that. She's just like, yeah, we took it.
• 29:09
  What are you gonna do about it? I loved that the story wasn't afraid to to kind of take those steps. And that whole escape from Harry was just very, she just told him, like, tough. I'm leaving. You can't do anything to me.
• 29:26
  They threatened Paul. Couldn't do anything to Paul. It's like, okay. This was actually, I I thought, smartly put together. I liked the way that that played.
• 29:35
  Pete Wright: I did too. It was very believable. And and I think it it goes back to the sort of gestalt of the movie, is like bullies be bullies, and bullies can't handle it when they're pushed back. Right? And that's exactly what they do together.
• 29:47
  Through intellect and cleverness, they push back on a bully, and he doesn't know what to do because this movie is also you know, it celebrates intelligence, and he is not. He is not intelligent. Right? He is not wise. He thinks he is, and this movie pushes back on that ego in a way that I also find very satisfying.
• 30:10
  And that's what makes it even more surprising that it's it's a movie of this period. This movie is taking swings and sort of punching out of its glass in a way that, that surprised me.
• 30:21
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Again, feeling very current intellect and cleverness pushing back on a bully and how much it bothers them.
• 30:29
  Pete Wright: It's so weird. It's just weird. Why why did somebody just I can't.
• 30:39
  Andy Nelson: I know. I know. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
• 30:43
  It's a great movie. I I really had a good time with it. I'm glad that I finally watched it. I feel like it needs to be something I check out more just because of how delightful I found Judy Holiday. Like, from beginning to end, she was, just wonderful.
• 31:01
  And once I mean, like you said, it takes that beginning to understand what you're getting into. But then once it gets going, you're like, oh, okay. I can I can go along for this ride? And I thought I thought that was really good. You know?
• 31:15
  Great surprise.
• 31:16
  Pete Wright: I did too. It it really it's such a a funny paradox, this movie, because it's it's celebrating this, like, empowerment on a number of different levels, not just kind of feminist levels. And yet it just doesn't quite understand equality on many levels, not just feminist levels, but wealth, power, political influence. All of these all of sort of the layers of the onion of influence, it's trying to pull apart in a way that it it's doing so seventy five years ahead of its time.
• 31:50
  Andy Nelson: Who knew? Yeah. What did you think of the story of the lawyer? This you know, we we have this I already mentioned him, but Jim, the lawyer who is, getting paid a 100,000 a year in $19.50 dollars by Harry to sell himself out and to do everything that Harry wants. How did that play for you?
• 32:12
  Well, that may
• 32:12
  Pete Wright: be the most prescient part. Right? The number of of pundits who have sold out for perceived power and influence. What I love the most about him and his sort of anchor in the movie is that he is self aware, and we don't often have publicly self aware sellouts. That is a that is a rarity today.
• 32:37
  And so I I think Howard St. John plays this delicately, thoughtfully, and yet honestly to what I would hope his inner voices like someone going through this, their inner voice would be telling them. Right? That he was not blind to the fact that he is complicit in all of this. So I I found his performance really wonderful.
• 33:06
  Andy Nelson: It's definitely an interesting element that we explore here, and we even get a little bit at the end of Billy as she's talking to each of them, like Harry and the lawyer. And it's just like, I'm kind of more sad for you because you've given the yourself over to this, and you just totally, have sold yourself out. And again, as you're saying, like, the way that he plays it, I think, is reflective of this person who completely hates himself, yet still can't stop. Right? Like, can't he won't get out of it.
• 33:44
  Like, he knows that he needs to for his own soul to heal and whatever, but he just won't. And that's, I thought, a fascinating element with this guy.
• 33:53
  Pete Wright: Yeah. I do too. You only to the degree to which you believe, and this is maybe even the the cynical response to that, You you believe that somebody in his position would not be able to rebound after an experience like this. And I think what we've learned is over the last seventy five years that smart attorneys can sell themselves out and then write new chapters that follow.
• 34:25
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Yeah.
• 34:26
  Pete Wright: Right? So I can be sad for him for a bit.
• 34:29
  Andy Nelson: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's easy to also not be sad for him. It's like, yeah.
• 34:33
  Yeah.
• 34:33
  Pete Wright: I mean, he
• 34:34
  Andy Nelson: easily did it. It was interesting because it they said, wasn't he, I can't remember the line, but it's something like, wasn't he set up to be like the, I don't know, some big legal position for the government. And instead, he ended up taking this. Yeah. And so, again, that speaks to this person finding it very easy to sell out for a massive amount of money and to acknowledge, like, yeah, I could have done more, but here I am.
• 35:03
  And I'll keep taking the money. Yeah. Even though I I feel bad about it, but I'm still not gonna stop. Yeah.
• 35:10
  Pete Wright: That's really interesting. You know, it's funny. It's like we get this this rebuke of political ignorance and corruption through this rom com that is framed around the education of a dumb blonde. Right? In quotes, heavy quotes.
• 35:30
  And the romantic foil is he's charming enough, but the guy that I find myself thinking about the most is the complicit dirty attorney. I
• 35:42
  Andy Nelson: don't understand
• 35:43
  Pete Wright: how the movie could be so so insightful. And and the, you know, the character the the only character I guess that's it. The the thing to celebrate is that there is one character with self awareness from the beginning, and that's the guy that that I I celebrate. Not because I idealize him, but because I just appreciate that he was written with self awareness when no one else is.
• 36:06
  Andy Nelson: Well, I mean, I I would say Paul is, but it's not like it's not very interesting, fact that he's he's Yeah. He's a goody goody, he's self aware. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
• 36:16
  He's That's, like, less interesting.
• 36:18
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Hasn't done anything wrong, and that's what makes the self awareness
• 36:21
  Andy Nelson: who cares. Exactly. Exactly. There's also an an element of the kind of the upstairs downstairs that we have here that I thought, I mean, they never really explore, but it was interesting that you have Billy in a small part kind of latch on to Helen, her maid, and and she's talking to her a lot and kind of sharing stuff with her. And Harry gets mad at her for being so open with the help.
• 36:50
  Yet Helen is also the one who shows her like the back access to make it easier for her to get from room to room, and is also one who's like passes by a few times and is hearing what they're talking about. I loved the scene where Harry is blowing up at Billy, and then Helen walks in and sees that they're in the middle of a fight, and like kind of hurries to get out the other side. And then later in the fight, she comes back through, and they have to stop and wait for her to leave. But I I don't know. The the kind of that element of the story, I thought was just an interesting one to include.
• 37:27
  Knowing who Billy is, that she's not somebody who like, she feels kind of totally comfortable. She feels more comfortable just having a conversation with Helen the maid than she does with the congressman's wife. Right? And so it's interesting, like, is there an element of we're kind of like that, you know, the the story of of a what's what's I am blanking on kind of the the type of story, but like not prince and the pauper, but something like that where maybe it is, like, where the poor person is now put into the rich person's world and has to learn how to live there a little bit. I mean, that's in in a sense part of what the story is.
• 38:09
  Right? She's she's this showgirl who is put into, again, not Harry's world per se, but certainly Paul is trying to teach her how to engage with congresspeople and things like that. So I don't know. I guess I'm not sure what my point is, but I think there's an interesting element of kind of like that poor mouse, rich mouse sort of story.
• 38:31
  Pete Wright: Poor mouse, rich mouse.
• 38:32
  Andy Nelson: Country mouse, city mouse?
• 38:34
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Okay. Alright. Babe, pig in the city?
• 38:41
  Andy Nelson: I'm all I'm all over the place with what whatever this point is. I
• 38:48
  Pete Wright: think I I think I get it. I think I get it. It it just moved around. It moved the goal line a little bit.
• 38:56
  Andy Nelson: I know. I know.
• 38:59
  Pete Wright: Well, I really appreciated all of all of that.
• 39:03
  Andy Nelson: Whatever that point was. Yes.
• 39:05
  Pete Wright: Whatever it was, I'm in the bag for
• 39:06
  Andy Nelson: it. And I guess there is a little bit of country vows because her dad is from small town America. Right? And she left to go, you know, perform and became a showgirl, and that's where Harry met her and picked her up. And now she's living this life of great wealth, but her dad's a farmer.
• 39:24
  So I guess there is a little bit of that. So maybe my point makes more sense than even I realized at
• 39:29
  Pete Wright: the time. Even you realized. Right? I love it when it comes back around like that. Didn't even mean to be so smart.
• 39:39
  That's right.
• 39:43
  Andy Nelson: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Okay. Well, I really enjoyed it. I I think it's a great movie.
• 39:49
  And, you know, it's a shame. Judy Holiday, this is just an interesting note because she had been on the on the stage with this. They didn't want her to be on the film. This was that period where they're like, oh, you're a stage performer. We can't you don't know how to be a movie star.
• 40:07
  We can't have you just jump to the movies. This is the whole thing with, Julie Andrews and My Fair Lady. Right? Where they're like, oh, well, we can't we can't put you in this. And then she goes and does Mary Poppins and proved them wrong.
• 40:22
  Yeah. This is that same sort of story where they didn't want her to be in it. They were looking at all these other people. Katharine Hepburn had seen her, and it was like, she's perfect for the part. You have to cast her in it.
• 40:35
  She would be great. So convinced along with, Garson Kanan to cast her in Adam's Rib, which came out the year before. And so he co wrote with his wife at the time, Ruth Gordon, a part just for her in the film Adam's Rib, which she ended up getting like a Golden Globe nomination for. And that was enough to finally convince Harry Cohn at the studio, oh, I guess she could be okay. And so they ended up casting her in this finally.
• 41:06
  There was also some, she was one of those actors who had been going to some communist meetings and such along with Garson Kanan at the time. And that was another thing that they were nervous about. The fact that like, oh, is she gonna be one of these people who's gonna get us in trouble because she's, one of these people going to the, you know, communist things and all that sort of thing.
• 41:29
  Pete Wright: Yeah. At a time when the, you know, Red Scare is not, you know, a figment.
• 41:36
  Andy Nelson: No. Right. This is definitely the time where you don't I mean, the blacklist is just around the corner. Yeah. You know?
• 41:41
  So Right. Right.
• 41:42
  Pete Wright: And and, you know, Hays Code. Like, it's culturally
• 41:45
  Andy Nelson: Yeah.
• 41:46
  Pete Wright: Is at is at a crossroads right now as this movie is coming out, and it is poking at all of the things Yeah. Pretty hard.
• 41:55
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. That's why I was, again, so surprised that they were able to get the line in where she's just like, are you a talker, or do you wanna, you know, do something or whatever? It's like, oh, interesting. Interesting.
• 42:06
  Like, they I'm surprised that line got in the film.
• 42:09
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Me too.
• 42:10
  Andy Nelson: And and but sadly, and I guess, from watching this video, this YouTube video, I'll put a link in the show notes for it, Judy Holiday actually sounds like she was a genius. Like, she's a very, very intelligent woman. But after this, she was hoping to get more parts. She was like, I don't wanna play any more idiots. Like, I wanna play a smart person now.
• 42:29
  But because of all of these different studios feeling nervous about hiring her because of her her time with these communist groups, she had to take whatever came along, and so she ended up playing a lot of other idiots. And so she was, I think, frustrated with her time in in Hollywood and the sort of work that she was getting, which is Wow. You know, unfortunate. And she died at the age of 43, fifteen years after this film, but, with from breast cancer. So, yeah, very short career.
• 43:01
  And this is the only thing I've seen of her. So Me too. Yeah.
• 43:05
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Worth worth looking at some more stuff. I'd like to see more of what she brings to, you know, these characters in general. I'm you know, especially knowing what she went through at that point.
• 43:16
  Andy Nelson: It's fascinating. Yeah. You know, really. Alright. Any other points?
• 43:22
  Anything else? That's all I got. Let's do it. Alright. Well, we'll be right back.
• 43:27
  But first, our credits.
• 43:40
  Pete Wright: The next reel is a production of True Story FM, engineering by Andy Nelson, music by Elan Ohana, Vakashlav Dragunov, Thai Simon Oriole novella, and Eli Catlin. Andy usually finds all the stats for the awards and numbers at d dash numbers dot com, boxofficemojo.com, imdb.com, and wikipedia.org. Find the show at truestory.fm. And if your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, please consider doing that for our show.
• 44:18
  Andy Nelson: Movie lovers, do you live for the thrill of the Oscar race? Do you relish the excitement of a competition where there's no clear front runner and every contender brings something unique and spectacular to the table? If so, you're not alone, and Letterboxd is here to help you dive even deeper into the exhilaration of awards season. There's something special about a year when the best actress category is stacked with incredible performances, each one a testament to the power and artistry of cinema. It's a time when movie lovers come together to debate, discuss, and celebrate the films and performances that have captured our hearts and imaginations.
• 44:53
  And that's where Letterbox comes in, a platform designed to enhance and enrich your love of movies. With Letterboxd, you can join a passionate community of film enthusiasts, sharing your thoughts and predictions on the Oscar race. Engage in friendly debates, making your case for favorite performances, and discover new perspectives and deepen your appreciation for the art of film. But Letterboxd isn't just about the Oscars. It's a year round celebration of cinema.
• 45:17
  Discover hidden gems, explore the rich history of filmmaking, and stay up to date on the latest and greatest in the world of movies. With personalized recommendations, detailed reviews, and a vibrant community of fellow movie lovers, Letterboxd is your ultimate companion on your cinematic journey. And now they have a great deal to make your Letterboxd experience even better. Head over to the nextreel.com/letterboxd or sign up directly on Letterboxd and use the code next reel to score a sweet 20% off your membership. This code works for both new sign ups and renewals so everyone can join in on the fun.
• 45:50
  With a Letterboxd pro or patron membership, you'll have access to a wealth of features that will take your movie watching experience to the next level. From ad free browsing to personalized stats and streaming service notifications, you'll be fully equipped to navigate the thrilling world of cinema. So what are you waiting for? Join the Letterbox community today and experience the excitement of the Oscar race like never before. Visit the nextreel.comletterbox, or sign up on Letterbox now with the code next reel, and let the movie magic begin.
• 46:19
  Pete Wright: Andy, sequels and remakes. This is quite a list.
• 46:22
  Andy Nelson: Well, it's it's just because it's a play. And I think when you have a play, it ends up there's a lot of it. But first, before that, I already mentioned, we talked about it a little bit at the beginning, the remake of this, but it did take some time to get going. Garson Kanan was trying for decades to do an updated remake of this. May it went through Bette Midler, Barbra Streisand, Whoopi Goldberg.
• 46:47
  There was a musical version that would have perhaps included Bernadette Peters or Dolly Parton. Frank Sinatra was on as, potentially playing Harry Brock, but nothing ended up coming to fruition. They finally, as we already said, in 1993, directed by Louis Mandocchi, made a version with Melanie Griffith, Don Johnson, and John Goodman. Very poorly received. So, I don't think it's one we'll ever add to our movies in the remakes series just to have it on
• 47:17
  Pete Wright: the list. A musical, Andy. A musical. I was born yesterday. Oh, I can hear it now.
• 47:25
  I can hear it now.
• 47:26
  Andy Nelson: I know you can. I know. But the play the play did go on to have a number of revivals. This originally, was 1946, than in the West End in 1947. A revival by Princeton University Summer Theater in 1950 by the Negro Drama Group in 5354.
• 47:44
  They had all sorts of productions in early seventies because of Watergate, and then they had a Broadway revival in 1989, and yet another Broadway revival in 2011. So it certainly has had its run. I'd be curious to see how a revisioning in today's modern political environment would be received. It's called watch the news. Oh, dear.
• 48:12
  Yes.
• 48:13
  Pete Wright: How'd it do at awards season?
• 48:15
  Andy Nelson: Well, this is part of the reason we are here for this series. It had seven wins with 10 other nominations. At the Oscars, Judy Holiday won best actress. She wasn't present at the awards, but watched it with several nominees in New York, including Gloria Swanson, also nominated in Hollywood. Ethel Barrymore accepted on her behalf.
• 48:36
  It was nominated for best director, but lost to All About Eve. Best writing, lost to All About Eve. Best costume, lost to All About Eve. And best picture, lost to All About Eve.
• 48:46
  Pete Wright: This All About Eve sounds like a real bang guy, Andy. A real Jenga. Yeah.
• 48:49
  Andy Nelson: Right. Well, if you if you're if you're picking a movie based on them actually saying the title, All About Eve is the one to pick. At the Golden Globes, it was nominated for best picture, but actually lost to Sunset Boulevard. Best director lost to Sunset Boulevard. Beta best actress.
• 49:05
  This is interesting. Judy Holiday was nominated for best actress drama and lost to Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard. Judy Holiday was also nominated for best actress in a comedy or musical and won. Okay. Like, isn't that interesting?
• 49:23
  Nominated in both categories. I thought that was really interesting.
• 49:27
  Pete Wright: I think that's really interesting. Something that maybe the Emmys could learn for the bear.
• 49:31
  Andy Nelson: I wonder when, the goal yeah. I wonder when the Golden Globes figured out that they needed to stop having people nominated in both categories.
• 49:41
  Pete Wright: Right. Yeah. Interesting.
• 49:43
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. So, okay. We are here. We maybe we should save our conversation for what we think, who we think should have won, like, for our final episode. When we talk about Sunset Boulevard, that'll be our last of this series.
• 49:56
  Then we should have a conversation about who we think should have won. Nice.
• 50:00
  Pete Wright: Okay. Then you should tell me about, god, Andy, the sweet, sweet, sweet duckets that came in for this movie. How did it do at the box office?
• 50:15
  Andy Nelson: Oh, Pete.
• 50:16
  Pete Wright: The budget curse of season fifteen continues. This is the ultimate own goal. You picked these movies.
• 50:23
  Andy Nelson: I know. I know. I tell well, I don't pick them. I I never go I'm gonna pick them based on who which budgets I could find. That would the Maybe you should.
• 50:31
  Maybe I should. Maybe you should. For this film, there is no information as to what QCOR had to make it. The only clue is that there was essentially a bidding war to get the rights to Garson Kanan's Broadway play, and Columbia ended up paying $750,000 plus a percentage of the profits in 1947. That makes this the second most paid for screen rights at that time, right behind a million dollars paid for Harvey.
• 50:58
  What's interesting is that the contract included a profit share from its intended release year of 1947. Well, this film ended up being put on the shelf for a while because of the casting issues. It makes me wonder if Partly was shelved as long as it was that so that Columbia could avoid paying profit share to Kanan. I don't know. Anyway, that's all I have.
• 51:17
  They paid a lot for the rights, so I'm assuming they didn't cheap out on the production.
• 51:21
  Pete Wright: Man, what is next season gonna be like? I think next season is just you two and blockbusters. Just all everything post 1981.
• 51:31
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Things that I can find budgets for. Oh my gosh. Well, I love this movie. I had a great time with it.
• 51:37
  It does have some issues with some of the politics, the Capra esque tour of DC and everything, but I still had such a great time and absolutely put Judy Holiday's performance as an easy fave.
• 51:52
  Pete Wright: Absolutely. I agree. She's a winner. I'm so glad I stuck it out and didn't just curse your name for ninety minutes for making me watch this movie. It was great.
• 52:03
  Andy Nelson: Great. Great. Great. Exactly. Alright.
• 52:05
  Well, that is it for today's conversation. Next week, we are looking at the next film with a best actress nomination, John Cromwell's Caged, for which Eleanor Parker received her first of three best actress nominations. We'll be right back for our ratings.
• 52:32
  Pete Wright: Do you ever notice how things work in Washington? Some people write the laws, some people break the laws, and some people just buy influence. Well, good news. This is one influence peddling scheme that's actually encouraged. Join the Next Real family of film podcasts today.
• 52:56
  And for just $5 a month or $55 a year, you'll get ad free episodes, early releases, extended editions, and live member streams across our shows. The Next Real, Sitting in the Dark, Movies We Like, Cinemascope, The Film Board, the works, all of our cinematic caucus. You can think of it as your legislative earmark for better movie talk. No filibusters. No lobbyists.
• 53:20
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• 53:48
  Head to truestory.fm/join and sign the only legislation that actually benefits you, the next Real Membership Act of 2025. Because in this town, knowledge is power, and membership is the only influence money should buy.
• 54:09
  Pete Wright: Letterbox, Andy. Letterbox.com/thenextreel. That's where you can find our HQ page where we put our reviews and our ratings, the the movies we've talked about. On this show, we're going to apportion our stars and hearts today for this movie. We're going to redistrict the stars and hearts for this movie.
• 54:29
  Where do you stand? What are
• 54:30
  Andy Nelson: you gonna do? Or or or is it is it are we gerrymandering to to figure out how we can get the right numbers of stars? Well,
• 54:38
  Pete Wright: that's what I'm doing.
• 54:43
  Andy Nelson: I loved this. I had so much fun with this. Yes. I acknowledge that there are some elements that may not work as well, but I still had an absolute blast with it. So I'm gonna do four and a half.
• 54:54
  I'm gonna go high.
• 54:55
  Pete Wright: Okay. No. I like your high. My problem was William Holden, did not find quite so charming enough that I'm gonna bring the William Holden charm factor is going to bring this down to a four with a heart for me. But, you know, that's effectively a four and a half because I don't do half stars.
• 55:13
  Andy Nelson: Oh, and it's higher than I thought. I I thought based on your initial comments, I thought you were gonna be at a three with this one.
• 55:20
  Pete Wright: No. Andy, my initial comments were I didn't like her for the first few minutes. I came around pretty quick.
• 55:26
  Andy Nelson: I know. Then you're like, it's a fossil. Like, there were some comments that I was like, okay.
• 55:30
  Pete Wright: But in the best possible way.
• 55:32
  Andy Nelson: I love seeing dinosaur fossils at the museum.
• 55:36
  Pete Wright: Dinosaur fossils.
• 55:40
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. It was a win. Yeah. Well, I thought it was great. So that's gonna average out to four and a quarter, which will round up to four and a half over at our account on Letterbox, which you can find at the next reel.
• 55:53
  You can find me there at Soda Creek Film, and you can find Pete there at Pete Wright. So what did you think about Born Yesterday? We would love to hear your thoughts. Hop into the ShowTalk channel over at our Discord community where we will be talking about the movie this week.
• 56:06
  Pete Wright: When the movie ends.
• 56:08
  Andy Nelson: Our conversation begins. Letterbox giveth, Andrew. As letterbox always doeth.
• 56:29
  Pete Wright: How did you how'd you do your filter today?
• 56:32
  Andy Nelson: I just was scrolling through based on review activity. I wasn't I didn't sort it in any particular fashion. I ended up at a three and a half though. Okay.
• 56:42
  Pete Wright: Okay. Three and a half right in the middle. Interesting. Go ahead. Give give it to me.
• 56:46
  What do you got?
• 56:46
  Andy Nelson: Three and a half by horror Barbie, who says this, pay someone to educate your girl, she realizes you're a piece of crap. What? Very simple and to the point. Yeah. That's that's pretty much what happens here.
• 57:01
  Pete Wright: Okay. Alright. Well, I've got something from somebody named Esme. Let's see if you can make sense of this with that name. It's a one star.
• 57:10
  Andy Nelson: Okay. Oh, you went low. Okay. Okay.
• 57:13
  Pete Wright: I did. I did go low. This movie makes no sense, and my mom said it's something like misogynistic. She covered my eyes during the part she said was, quote, domestic abuse. One star, because I totally related to the title.
• 57:29
  I was not born yesterday per se when I saw the film, but I was four days old, close enough. Go ahead. What do you think what do you think of that?
• 57:39
  Andy Nelson: I don't even understand. Like, I I feel like, is this somebody whose entire persona on Letterboxd is
• 57:49
  Pete Wright: a child? It is. Let me read the bio. Okay. I'm literally a seven month old baby.
• 57:55
  These are the movies I really do watch with my screenwriter parents. Every movie is the first time watched. Duh. Born March 2025.
• 58:03
  Andy Nelson: Wow. That's Yeah. There's a whole vibe. That's an interesting angle to take with your Letterboxd profile. I'm gonna do everything through the eyes of my seven month old child.
• 58:17
  Yeah. So I wonder over time, inevitably, there will be rewatches. I think so. There aren't yet. And I wonder if we'll see a growth in the preferences and things.
• 58:29
  And it's interesting that Esme is watching things like Born Yesterday and not Madagascar or Despicable Me.
• 58:39
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Well, like, for example, here's the latest review of splitsville from 2025. Three stars. Polyamory in indie movies is like miss Rachel in the baby world. Ubiquitous, litigated, but generally harmless and uninteresting.
• 58:54
  That's like a lot of it just exudes a sort of world weariness that I don't normally expect from seven month old babies. But I like it.
• 59:02
  Andy Nelson: I'm here for it. Esme does have screenwriter parents, Pete.
• 59:06
  Pete Wright: Esme thinks of Man Up in 2015, Lake Bell's British accent and Simon Pegg as a romantic lead are about as convincing as when I wear running shoes as a baby who can't even crawl. So again, as a celebrant of self awareness, I'm here for these reviews.
• 59:24
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. Give me the one with the budgets. I'll I'll I'll follow that when you follow Esme.
• 59:30
  Pete Wright: Okay. That sounds great. Okay. Alright. Letterbox, thank you.
• 59:34
  You've been great today. We appreciate you. Heard.