Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / Ep.280 'Common Frustrations For MSK Clinicians - Part 1/4'' with guests Imi Testa & Jo Turner

Transcript

Ep.280 'Common Frustrations For MSK Clinicians - Part 1/4'' with guests Imi Testa & Jo Turner · The STA Clinician Podcast

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You're listening to the STA Clinician Podcast, connecting clinicians across healthcare.
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Formerly known for the last five years as the Sports Therapy Association podcast.
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My name is Matt Phillips, creator of onechatlive.com. And as always,
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this episode is being recorded live on the Sports Therapy Association YouTube
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channel and Facebook page at 8pm UK time on a Tuesday.
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So with the start of a new month, April 2026, comes a new focus.
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And this month, the focus is going to be common frustrations for MSK clinicians.
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Very shortly i'm going to be joined by special
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guest imi tester who is the owner of back on track soft tissue therapy and joe
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turner of mehab.co.uk imi and joe are going to be revealing a couple of the
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biggest frustrations within their msk health or careers including the all too
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often polarized debate over what
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is good posture and the idea that maintenance massage is just a luxury.
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Before then, I must give a thank to my guests last week in episode 279,
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Collaboration, Therapy Show 2026 and Beyond.
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I was joined by representatives from the three main professional membership
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bodies representing sports therapists in the UK.
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So from the Society of Sports Therapists, the SST, their head of education joined me, Kate Williams.
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From the Sports Therapy Organization, their chair, Sarah Catlow joined me.
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And from the Sports Therapy Association, STA, its founder, Gary Benson joined me.
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And together, my wonderful guests reflected on what's in store at this year's
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therapy show, formerly known as Therapy Expo,
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taking place at the NEC in Birmingham this November 25th and 26th,
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and how through collaboration of the SST, STO and STA, we can help move forward
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to the sports therapy industry forwards and upwards.
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It's a cracking episode, I always say that, but it really is.
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Well worth a listen if you're a sports therapist in particular.
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Highlighting opportunities for unified messaging, better accreditation,
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training, the protection of patients, and of course, support for practitioners.
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Available, as always, on YouTube and all popular podcast apps.
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Right then, back to tonight's episode. Part one of Common Frustrations for MSK
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Clinicians with my special guest, Imi Tester, owner of Back on Track Soft Tissue
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Therapy, and Joe Turner, founder of Mehab. .co.uk.
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How are you doing? I am very well. I'm here. You're here.
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Stage one completed. Thanks so much, as always, for giving up your time this
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evening. We really appreciate it.
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If you have joined us live, people, then I'll just say hello to you as well
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before I forget about you and immerse myself totally into the Emmy and the Joe show.
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If you do have questions for Emmy or Joe, then do feel free to bring them up
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on the screen. If you do that, then I can read them out.
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For example, Nikki Mansfield has said, Eden Oll, is this an extra
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long session so we can cover all our frustrations asking for
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a friend nikki no i can guarantee we will not be covering
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all frustrations that would be another 257 episodes
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i'm sure but we'll get through two ones which i'm sure will
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tickle your fancy uh so glenn murphy is with us as well saying good
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evening all thank you very much for joining us glenn good to see you as always
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and other people are coming through the room um it's a
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great way of saying hi and networking so don't feel embarrassed if
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you want to just bring your say hi say just put something i'll bring
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it up on the screen for you and like i say if you've got questions then
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do feel free to add them in the comments
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right then common frustrations for
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msk frustrations clinicians as nick is kind of alluded to already nicky mansfield
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nice segue it can be a frustrating career can't it both of you i'm sure you
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have been in the industry for quite a long time emmy for you ever got frustrated
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with what you chose as a health, as a profession?
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Not my choice, I suppose. I get sometimes frustrated at how my profession is perceived or valued.
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But no, I like what I do. I love what I do.
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This wasn't what I was expecting at all. Oh, so were you expecting something out? Yeah, that's fine.
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That's really nice. That's really nice. Actually, before I forget,
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could you let people know, I always presume that so many people know you because
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you've been on the show before and you're a solid member of the ST School and
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the Hands-on Public Therapy Expo.
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People have seen you talk on other occasions. But for people who don't know
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who you are and what you do and where you are in the country,
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could you give us a short little introduction?
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So I am a soft tissue therapist and newly qualified title class practitioner.
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And I have a clinic in Wickwall, which is in South Gloucestershire,
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not too far from Joe Turner.
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Very nice. Anything else? Yeah, I did. That's great. It's a great segue.
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You're doing a great job.
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It takes us straight to Joe Turner. Joe Turner, before you tell us who you are,
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ever get frustrated with healthcare? Never.
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Probably like in the, I'm a naturally quite sanguine person,
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but yeah, I get, I wouldn't say I get daily frustrations other than with myself.
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And I, you know, we can talk more in the episode about how that plays out.
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Getting getting cross with yourself rather than your patient I think my biggest
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frustrations are probably due to having been in the profession 30 years now
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being quite old and feeling like arguments go round and round and round and
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honestly some of the biggest ones are ones that I.
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Was relatively excited about as a young clinician and less excited as they come
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around for the third or fourth time in my career that's a really interesting
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point it is true and it's interesting how people can react to that.
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It's almost like the people who managed to survive it have got this really valuable,
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information in their minds and this knowledge that things come and go and don't
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get too excited about the latest thing.
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But it kind of means you've got to keep seeing it again and again and again.
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But anyway, and for people who don't know where you are, Jo,
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and what you do in healthcare, could you let us know?
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Yep. So as Amy said, I'm also based in Gloucestershire. I co-own a couple of
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clinics, one in Gloucestershire, one in Wiltshire.
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I'm a physio of nearly 30 years.
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I'm also a coach and MiHav is a separate company to my clinics.
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It's ostensibly a coaching company but also offers courses and a podcast and
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a community and its general essence is about health and well-being of clinicians
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rather than focusing on clinical work.
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Excellent. Fantastic. And Amy, you can vouch for the wonderful results you can
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get from coaching by Jo Turner, can't you?
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Yeah, I had some great coaching. I was really at a bit of a crossroads.
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Oh, there we go. I guess I was a bit frustrated with what I did.
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I was at a crossroads with how to progress in my practice and my professional life.
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And yeah, Jo was amazing and helped me consolidate my thoughts without telling
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me what to do she drew it from me and yeah and and here I am with new things
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happening and new directions to go to.
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Amy was an amazing coachee with she's given me permission to share her caffeinated
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squirrels analogy which I hope you don't mind Amy I have quoted and
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we used that with other clients Amy described her head as at any one time they
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were up to seven Or more than that? Many, many.
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There was up to a number of caffeinated squirrels jumping around,
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all with a great assertion that what they need to tell me is the most important
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thing at that moment. Mm-hmm.
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Nice metaphor. Clients use the best metaphors, don't they? Absolutely.
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So cool. No, it's really cool. We've talked in quite a few episodes about this
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abundance of how to make yourself a better practitioner, how to do these extra
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courses with your hands and do things to your patients and just look after your
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patient, patient, patient, and more ways to look after your patient.
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And Joe, you do just stand out as probably one of, yeah, definitely it was the
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first introduction I had to somebody who was going, hold on a second,
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how about looking after yourself as the clinician?
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Because that before you look after yourself and you've been on the show before
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with wonderful joanne elpherson as well just saying if you could if you're
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not looking after yourself how can you hope to give all that love and
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attention and and positive energy to to your clients
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so yes mehab check it out people mehab.co.uk
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and i'm sure this is going to time with what we're talking about
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tonight so we've narrowed it down as nikki kind of
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said there's a lot of frustrations especially when you've been in the industry a
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while chances are you learn stuff originally on
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a course that maybe needed to be a little bit black and white in order to
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just get the immense amount of information to you and then you're
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going to be hit a little bit with that's not quite what we said
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or you have to change that a little bit not totally and we're
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gonna have to tweak it a little bit and that definitely takes a depth of character
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and and and peace in order to to process all of that so we've picked two which
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i think are a great couple and they were based on basically imi tester without
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making head too big you inspired this whole month because you produced some
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fantastic pieces on Hands On Hub in February.
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And they kind of labeled a couple of frustrations, which I thought,
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well, we've got to do a whole show about this, which is what we did.
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So I'm going to bring them up with your permission, of course. The first one.
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Which I believe was on February the 23rd.
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And this was all about people, in case you're not sure, on the podcast,
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it's a Facebook group called The Hands-On Hub, a brilliant place.
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It's part of, it came out of kind of the ST School with Anna Maria Maccieri.
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And The Hands-On Hub is a wonderful group, well known probably for being at
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Therapy Expo as well as a hands-on area within the show where people were really
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getting a chance to learn through putting their hands on, seeing other people
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put their hands on, which is a great way of learning.
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So and now there's the hands-on hub private group on facebook so i encourage
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you to look out for that if you are a health care clinician and you don't don't
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even have to be hands-on just to understand a little bit more about the people
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you work with or the people you might be referring to.
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So back in then the 23rd of february there
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was a fantastic article called why i've changed my mind again
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on posture kind of and i think he got the
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normal kind of 20 messages saying can i share this on my way for me i
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mean he was like why is everybody bothering me saying i want to share this thing
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just might get my thoughts down but it's great so to
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introduce that then why do you remember what made you suddenly think about that
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why posture what made you that day write this rather long wonderfully long post
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on posture yeah one of the reasons again going back to my adhd was i was trying
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to avoid doing something i really needed to do i was in major procrastination.
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So so and i kind of think sometimes when i write these
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things it's kind of a therapy for me so going back
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linking back to you know
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to my time with joe and it
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instead of getting frustrated or instead of just getting reactive which i can
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do if i write things down it makes me then reflect more and to be more stand
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back and be a bit more curious about why i'm feeling about something and.
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Could sort of collate all my thoughts on
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it and make links to other thoughts and so
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in a way it's a kind of reflective practice and some
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of them don't make it out into the
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public and some of them do and that
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was one that I just kind of because I think because Hands On Hub
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always feels like a really safe space to say
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these things I wouldn't have necessarily posted
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that in other spaces so yeah
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so i thought it might be a useful one so i pressed
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send quickly before i changed my mind and
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that was it it's an interesting point i want to
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talk before we look at the content of itself it's so interesting you
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say that because it can be so good to
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get your thoughts out to peers and colleagues and and
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and uh but it needs to be a safe place isn't
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it and normally on social media it's probably the worst place to hang and
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washing out because you just can get people just shouting at
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you strangers coming in it's a public domain in most places so so
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what was it about this isn't a
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commercial for the hands on heart but what is it about that particular facebook
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group that makes you feel that yeah let people see all of this is it because
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you know everybody in there or partly that i think but i think partly and partly
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because i guess Most people in there have some sort of association with Anna Maria.
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And so we've all maybe come from a similar background of learning.
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And maybe it's a bit of a bubble. Maybe that's not such a good thing.
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Yeah, I guess we all kind of are quite open to thinking about certain things
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and maybe have thought other things in the past and have changed our minds.
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So it's, I don't know, it's a place where you can maybe a little be like, I have this thought.
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Is that, is that okay? I don't know. And it feels, yeah, it feels safer.
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But I, yeah, I'm not sure why. Maybe Jo knows why certain spaces feel safer than other spaces.
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I think what you just said actually, Yumi, highlights one of my frustrations
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that often our profession doesn't feel like a place where I can go,
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where you can go, I'm thinking this. Do you think that's all right?
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There seems to be a lot of, this is my opinion, or this is my wisdom. Yeah.
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And it being sort of put up there for people to either be in awe of or agree
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with or massively aggressively disagree with.
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But yeah, I think the more spaces there are where you can just do exactly what
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you just said, I'm not sure about this, but I'm putting it out there for discussion is really healthy.
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And I guess that's one of my frustrations that there are less places like that
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or not as many as I perhaps like. Like, do I think that's why you posted there? I have no idea, Remy.
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I imagine that's probably a fairly likely reason.
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We need to feel safe, don't we, if we're going to attend a flight.
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Yeah, I think you're right. There are spaces where there's, you know, an opinion is stated.
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And anyone who is unsure or who questions it, instead of having a conversation
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and being curious And using some of the skills that I learned on your course, Matt,
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of how to ask a question to find out more rather than just to shoot someone
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down, you know, it can be quite aggressive and people are just shot down and laughed at.
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And so that would not be a safe space.
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But I think if you do that, you don't foster curiosity in other people.
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You just make them feel horrible about themselves.
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And against you instead of thinking well
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actually hang on a minute that's quite interesting maybe maybe there's another
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side to this and that curiosity can lead to change so I think it's lovely to
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have spaces where you people could say anything and it's okay there's a conversation
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and to be had rather than just being shot down.
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It's interesting as well, because it always, always, always makes me think that
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we should all be experts of this, because this is how we should be treating patients.
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We should be greeting them with a totally open mind, no judgment,
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to create that safe space for them to open up and speak in.
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But therapists seem to be the first to actually, maybe it's just a release,
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maybe they're so tired of doing it during the day, they just need to get it out, this kind of anger.
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But you would have thought we'd have been great at it. But anyway, another thought.
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And also being open to creating a space where patients can question us as well
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without it feeling threatening.
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You know, just say, oh, no, actually, that isn't quite my experience of this injury.
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And for us, just go, OK, great. I mean, hopefully most of us do.
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But sometimes that isn't the space.
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It's I'm going to ask you questions and you're going to give me some answers.
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Then I'll give you my wisdom.
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Perhaps I'm being unfair. I'm sure there are loads of clinicians listening who create that safety.
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But I'm not sure how many patients often feel safe questioning a healthcare
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professional or putting their
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own, adding their own opinion in unless it's very explicitly asked for.
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How many just go along with what they've said and then go home and ignore it
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because they haven't felt safe enough to put caveats or say,
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well, actually, that's not quite how I was. Yeah.
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They're being polite. Yeah.
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But this is where like it always makes me think of Andy Hosgood because he's
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just a master at it but this is where I think there are some skills which clinicians
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need to learn which don't come naturally like,
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sometimes we think that we're showing empathy by asking question after question
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and kind of repeating what they say back and like when really,
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just them saying something and having that silence and just body language of
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giving them permission to continue just opens a totally different door, doesn't it?
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A conversation and probably something they haven't had for ages.
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They're expecting to be interviewed when you just stop and don't say anything,
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which can be really hard for some people.
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And then almost in their brain, they're going like, wow, this person's actually listening to me.
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This person's allowing me to keep talking, which is such a starter,
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isn't it? So yes, it's amazing.
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Anyway, right. So posture is an interesting topic, isn't it?
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It's been going round and round and round is one of those things which i think
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joe you know you were referring to,
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backwards and forwards and different you know
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ideas or different gurus and then the
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guru normally admits that they were slightly wrong but it's too late the t-shirts
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being printed and the dvds out and you know but in
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in a nutshell then i mean i mean you say introducing the
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post but for people who haven't read the post what's the traditional you mentioned
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that there was originally cpd way back in the day you learned a certain kind
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of idea about posture what was it and then and how did it change once you investigated
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a little bit so i remember being on courtes and trying to sort of you know.
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Whether things were sort of a millimetre higher than a millimetre lower and, you know,
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an ASIS or all the sort of Jander's cross thing and sitting up straight and
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not slouching and, you know, all of those things.
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And then I went through the whole sort of anti that.
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And I think that's kind of, kind of what started the post.
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Tris posted up his annual, I don't, I haven't done clean from
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assessing posture and I get I'm not
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dissing Triss at all I get what he was doing with that post and and
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I agree with him you know he was making a
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stand against the people who was potentially still very in with an old-fashioned
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narrative looking at correct and incorrect posture and micromanaging biomechanics
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of posture but I just I wanted to have a different yeah a different viewpoint on it.
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And I, during my Feldenkrais training, I remember at the start,
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there was talk of posture. And I can remember sitting at the back.
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I mean, hopefully not too obviously, although I may, I think I probably failed
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rolling my eyes going, oh my God, you know, I've just signed up for four years
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and here we are talking about posture. What have I done?
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And actually my mind was very much changed because they reclaimed the word posture.
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They weren't talking about a right or wrong but
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are just a way of in that moment moving
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yourself and that what they quite often refer
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to instead was organization so how you've chosen to
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organize yourself whether that's in stillness or in movement in that moment
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for whatever reason you've chosen to organize yourself in a certain way and
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that is what they would call posture and they wouldn't put a right or wrong
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on it and they wouldn't label it as anything,
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but to simply be curious about, I wonder why they've chosen that.
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And there might be a hundred different reasons why.
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And it's just that curiosity rather than,
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you know, putting people in boxes, I think. And that was where the article came from.
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Jo, in your years of physiotherapy, you must have seen different ideas and approaches
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to people coming in and assessing people's posture. What do you think of when
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you think of the word posture?
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Well, I think my history with posture is probably similar to Emma's.
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And yeah, I remember going on all those courses and lying through my teeth that
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I could see millimeter differences on
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certain things and actually feeling deeply uncomfortable with that
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because my husband always teases me and says I have a truth chip and
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I can't tolerate like even micro untruths and
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that definitely was a maybe
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not a frustration but a source of quite a lot of internal discomfort
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when I was younger that I felt like I was constantly saying yes
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I can see this and oh yes I can appreciate that and my mind's going bullshit
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all the time you know and I didn't enjoy that at all yes we were taught there
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was good posture and there was ideal posture that our treatments and our exercise
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programs should be aiming for you know this kind of golden ideal.
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Imi I hadn't heard that sort of explanation of organizing yourself but I love
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it and it completely ties in with my nearly 30 years now of teaching I don't
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mind saying I've been teaching Pilates for 30 years And I don't mind because
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I've morphed Pilates into something that really makes sense to me now.
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And when I'm teaching it.
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I'm constantly reorganizing. I think I'm sort of feeling and verbalizing the
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reorganization that's going on in my body.
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And I do describe it that way as well.
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I often remind people who are as old as me about the transformer toys.
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Do you remember those toys that were cars?
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And then you rearrange them into Optimus Prime or something like that.
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And to me, that's what that organizing posture feels like. The kind of...
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You're finding bits of your body and you're making adjustments and you're noticing
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the effect of moving one part of your body and then the response of another part.
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And I mean, when the word posture was, I'm going to say first brought about,
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but posture doesn't have to have the word good or bad in front of it, does it?
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A posture is just a posture and there's no judgment within that word.
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It's it's a position I guess is what I would interpret it as and I love the
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idea of organizing parts of yourself into a certain posture and then playing
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with organizing a different way or,
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searching for a different way of feeling or being I really like that opening
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up more options you know so that would be yeah opening up more options so yeah
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it's fine it's fine to slouch as long as you can choose different options at
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different times that are suitable for when you want to do different things.
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So it's optimization, I guess. And in the moment, there are times where it's
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useful to be very small and crouchy, you know, so there's no right or wrong.
23:23
Yeah. And I remember in my early days of physio, finding myself frequently saying
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to people that certain postures will probably just feel right and it's,
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sometimes they will aesthetically look better the ones that feel good not always.
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But I think there is this idea that
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I might notice myself most strongly
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after coming back from maternity leave when I you know
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my body changed a lot and felt very different and then
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when I started getting fitter again I just noticed that
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I was holding myself in a way that felt more comfortable and
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more happy and that was
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a useful you know that was a posture probably I
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was adopting a different posture but for me it was all about
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that it felt better but you
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notice I think that's the key so the key
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is being aware of what you're choosing in that
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you know if you're not aware and in
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it's become habitual then you
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you don't know that you're doing it how do you know
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whether it's the most useful one so that is useful
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sort of being able to notice oh actually is this
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good for me right now does this feel comfortable or could
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there be a better fit a better way so it's
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when you are not aware of what you're doing and it becomes you know it becomes
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habitual and it becomes you know part of that predictive processing model that's
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when it's maybe not so useful and I think Jo you mentioned that you there was
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an emotional sort of side.
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To your change you felt better yeah that's
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the other thing and another one of my frustrations that
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it's not just biomechanical it's not just the body it's
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our self and how we're feeling if we're
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feeling sad or tired or scared or
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not confident or on the opposite side you
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know all of those the thing that politicians do the sort
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of power pose or it can be very much
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linked to how we're feeling inside and we're projecting
25:26
that through you know ourselves we move through the world sense making it's
25:32
us it's not a body and and a brain and an emotion it's all us so that can be
25:39
reflected past experiences you know your mood all of that in a messy sort of,
25:45
way is is part of posture it's not just muscles
25:49
and bones and how you use them i think the
25:52
thing we're all agreeing is posture is not something to be
25:54
held up as you know this is what we're aiming for and we'll
25:57
just keep tweaking everything until we get there and until
26:00
you get there you're not right i think we all you know most of us these days
26:04
reject that idea but i really like your idea of bringing awareness that's one
26:12
of our main jobs as a therapist isn't it to to bring awareness to something
26:16
that someone perhaps hasn't been aware of for a little while and as you say it's that.
26:22
Unconscious side which may or may not be associated directly with pain but if
26:26
it's unconscious then it can't be changed and our job is to bring consciousness to it.
26:33
And is it, are we so obsessed with this sort of perfection because, you know,
26:40
there are links to sort of sport and elite athletes and so to optimise like
26:46
power and endurance in sport,
26:49
then you are looking a little bit more maybe that way.
26:53
But with the general population, maybe, I don't know.
26:57
I might pass that one to Matt. Yeah, I might pass that one to Matt.
27:00
But is it because certainly with, you know, sports massage or sports therapy,
27:06
where we've got that link to sort of trying to optimise,
27:11
I think, I suspect it boils down to this chasing symmetry.
27:16
You know, although, you know, Joe, a lot of us in the, you know,
27:22
places we move in understand that we should be chasing this norm,
27:26
this anatomical norm like the poster.
27:28
But I think, and Amy, you'll be aware of this, in so many courses,
27:32
particularly, I don't always like in physiotherapy, but I know in so many traditional
27:36
courses out there for sports massage, sports massage therapy,
27:39
sports therapy, they're still, the first thing you do if a client comes in with
27:43
neck pain or shoulder pain, have they got level shoulders?
27:45
If they haven't, then we're going to teach you some techniques to give them level shoulders.
27:49
At no stage do they, they just gloss over the fact that there's going to be
27:53
people who have got unlevel shoulders who are not in pain. There's going to
27:56
be people with level shoulders who are in pain.
27:58
That's just ignored. It's not even a conversation on these courses.
28:01
It's like, wow, they've walked in with one shoulder lower.
28:03
Right, this is what you can do here. This technique, this technique and you
28:06
know what after 20 minutes of doing it measure them again put the
28:09
two pencil marks on the wall and they'll be and the chances
28:12
are that person will be even because you can kind of change temporarily
28:16
muscle length even just the belief that they're going to be better is probably
28:20
changes their posture which probably links into their emotion as opposed to
28:23
what you've done with your hands but then guess what once they walk out again
28:26
and start getting stressed out or doing whatever they're doing they're going
28:29
to be so i think it's that it's that belief isn't it and if anyone is listening,
28:33
because I'm really, really conscious that there could be therapists who literally
28:36
have been told today or last week or finished their course, and most of the
28:39
course was based on chasing symmetry.
28:42
I'm not going to take this on board now. I'm going to ask my wonderful guests,
28:45
Emmy and Joe, what they would say to a therapist now who's listening going,
28:48
but if you're not looking for symmetry, then what do you do?
28:51
And this person is getting nervous already listening to us. So do they have
28:55
to stop everything they've learned?
28:57
No, you can still be curious. Just be curious.
29:00
Literally be curious. So instead of saying, oh, you know, this means this or
29:06
this means that, well, they are doing that.
29:08
You know, they might be moving in a certain way. I wonder we can ask them,
29:13
you know, why do you think you're moving in a certain way?
29:15
Maybe it becomes clear as time goes on and you can give them different options
29:20
for moving. and see, so how does this, now you've moved in this way as opposed
29:26
to that way, what feels better for you?
29:28
Like Jo, when she came back from maternity leave, she said, oh, it felt better.
29:33
So you're just giving people lots of options for doing the same thing and seeing
29:39
if any of them, how does that feel now? Does that feel better, the worse?
29:43
You know, how is it to do this thing now? We've done that.
29:46
Was that useful to you? So just being a lot more, let's say vague, It's not the word, is it?
29:53
A lot more open, I guess.
29:55
Yeah, and I think it's fine to comment on things and, you know,
29:59
say with the stick with the asymmetric shoulders, you know, I am noticing your
30:05
left shoulder is higher than your right.
30:07
That may mean nothing. Or maybe you don't want to say it. Maybe,
30:11
you know, ask them and say, is there anything you notice?
30:13
And, oh, okay, that, okay, my left shoulder's higher. Does that feel like it's
30:17
part of this problem, do you think?
30:19
I don't know. I think it's always been like that. And, you know,
30:21
just having, as Mimi says, a conversation rather than the sort of unquestioned
30:29
belief that symmetry is everything.
30:32
I'm sorry, my brain always goes off on overly philosophical tangents,
30:36
but we chase symmetry in everything, don't we?
30:38
I mean, you do a piece of artwork as a child and you're trying to get it symmetrical
30:44
and all those studies that babies prefer symmetrical faces.
30:47
And you know it's seems quite a human thing
30:50
doesn't it is it is it symmetry or is it
30:53
we don't like difference who knows but difference
30:57
seems to be it's not it's not just symmetry in our world
31:00
is it's something that is different to something that we've decided is is the
31:05
good thing yeah i wonder if it just goes back to the same as everything it's
31:09
threat perception isn't it if something's not not as expected then there's a
31:14
difference there and that that immediately sparks It's a little bit of,
31:17
it challenges that prediction of how we expect something to be.
31:23
So straight away, we maybe notice it or I don't know. Yeah, we make a definite
31:28
causal link. Something is different and something is wrong.
31:31
Therefore, the thing that's different must be causing the thing that's wrong. Mm-hmm.
31:36
Yeah, it's actually become something very philosophical. Sorry.
31:40
Which is what we have to do on the show. No, it's an important thing.
31:42
A lot of these questions too. We can get worse than that, I'm sure.
31:46
It is true. But yeah, so if you're listening to this, then looking for symmetry,
31:53
fair enough, but don't assume that symmetry is going to be the route to all
31:57
of your patient losing their pain or anything.
32:00
And like Amy said. It might be a really useful way of moving differently,
32:05
that it was really serving them a purpose.
32:07
You know, the classic somebody who's got a disc herniation and they're off to one side.
32:13
In that moment, that is serving a really useful purpose for them,
32:16
maybe not five years down the road.
32:18
But so sometimes it's a useful thing.
32:23
Sorry, I interrupted. No, no, no, it's so true.
32:26
And I think the nice thing about getting rid of that is that you can spit Bruce
32:30
Lee, isn't it, in nature? Although I'm sure it wasn't his idea.
32:32
But once you empty the glass of this water, until you can fill it with other
32:34
stuff up, but until you empty the glass, then all you're doing is just trying
32:37
to cram stuff on top of this false premise.
32:40
So it's, yeah, well, look, half-down posture, I think that's pretty good.
32:44
Anything else you'd like to say about posture? I'm just looking through to what
32:47
you said in your post, Emmy, other stuff you said.
32:50
We've covered the fact, I'm always fascinated with emotion and posture.
32:53
Now, obviously, not everybody with forward shoulders has got forward shoulders
32:56
because they're stressed or tense or because they're, I don't know,
32:59
a young female who's embarrassed of her body change and everything,
33:02
and they're naturally defending against there.
33:04
But in so many cases, I think things like that are ignored and we think it's
33:08
because they've got, you know, tight pectoralis so I spend all our time on this
33:11
and they've got weak trapezius muscles and we need to kind of strengthen them and really.
33:16
You know someone can change their posture depending on how they feel
33:18
this is where we come in having that conversation another frustration
33:22
it's a big frustration isn't it because a lot do get
33:25
missed this is another i mean this is
33:27
another podcast entirely really but this is another frustration that
33:31
predominantly still you know we talk about the
33:34
biopsychosocial model we all say we do it and
33:36
i think it's environmental now as well we say we do
33:39
it we say we do it but we don't really we still
33:42
very much focus on the biomechanics we
33:46
don't have enough thought to
33:49
we don't have enough training on we you know
33:52
all those other elements the psychosocial elements
33:55
and the environment in which we live which also
33:58
is part of that and then we get
34:01
we always immediately go straight for that that bio
34:04
because that's what we've been taught there's not enough education in
34:08
the other stuff which I've you know I've done
34:11
a little bit of learning around sort of psychology and
34:14
philosophy and starting to delve into
34:17
sociology Jo made me buy a book forced me to buy a book which I haven't read
34:23
starting I've read I've read nearly all of it which I'm starting to look that's
34:29
a whole area I feel I know nothing about but is hugely important and can really
34:35
impact all of these things.
34:37
So that is probably another episode, but why we only still really.
34:43
We separate all of them as well. Not only do we not learn enough about some
34:47
of them, we still separate them out.
34:50
Do you think it's a problem that we all, all three of us, trained in professions,
34:56
you know, their names are about physical things.
35:01
And with the greatest of intentions, when we went into them,
35:04
we were interested in physical things.
35:07
And in a post-grad situation we've learned
35:10
that we're supposed to be incorporating bio and
35:13
social sorry psycho and social elements but
35:18
at the heart of it you know it is
35:21
is and again this is a much bigger
35:24
question but how can you ever completely
35:27
come away from the fact that you were trained in one lane
35:30
of a three-way motorway you can
35:33
acknowledge the other two but you're constantly reminded not
35:36
to go out of your scope of practice where that
35:40
boundary is it's really hard to judge and
35:44
then at the same time the expectation on you to have
35:47
quite a high level of awareness is increasing and you
35:50
know we all most of us accept that we're better therapists
35:53
when we do acknowledge those things and then there's a psychologist who were
35:57
taught in the other lane of the motorway and I've heard that psychologists are
36:02
often quite envious that we have a remit to use touch because they appreciate
36:06
how important that is and there's lots of us trying to shed that privilege.
36:11
You know, it does seem...
36:15
A bit of a crazy thing that so many people
36:18
start still so defined and yet
36:21
you know we all know that healthcare needs to
36:23
be a much more combined effort yeah I
36:27
had I had a I can't remember who I was telling this to but I had like if I could
36:32
wave a magic wand and change how we're all educated that everybody would do
36:38
like a foundational level five that encompassed all of that broad spectrum,
36:44
learning about psychology, anthropology.
36:47
Sociology, everything, along with maybe a basic A&P, there'd be this foundational
36:54
level where we all learned it.
36:56
So also fostering understanding between the professions.
36:59
And then you would go off and specialize in your certain thing,
37:03
and that would be your degree level.
37:04
And I think it would enable us to all come from
37:07
a common ground we would maybe respect each other
37:11
more or be you know we would understand all
37:15
of those aspects a little bit more but we start off already
37:18
in the motorway lane instead of starting off
37:21
oh god I'm going down going down a hole of trying to think of an
37:23
analogy now in the service station all together
37:27
in the service station yeah we start off
37:30
on those quite narrowly defined lanes and
37:33
we're peopling at the end of the day we're all peopling we're trying
37:36
to help people support people we just come
37:39
into it maybe with different contexts you know I
37:42
always love Anna Maria's thing about massage being the context for the therapy
37:47
happening and the same so for a physiotherapist it's movement or strength and
37:52
for someone else it's using language or speaking so yeah we're just using different
37:59
contexts for supporting people.
38:01
So are you describing in me like a broad rather than all training and specialities
38:06
and then trying to absorb the broadness of it. We do a year of papaling.
38:11
A year of papaling.
38:14
And then you choose which bit really floats your boat and if you like, what.
38:20
What context you want to use then to access people yeah and you know for those
38:27
who want to stay vocational they they can just do this initial level and everyone
38:31
else can but that's you know it's never going to happen but that would be my magic wand,
38:37
and medic suits sorry matt i'll let you get a question in a minute but.
38:44
I mean medical it's like stroke something that medical training is a bit more
38:48
like that they learn medicine and then they go off and do a speciality yeah
38:52
and then well I suppose their medical training could probably do with a lot more of the
38:56
they could probably do with a little bit more psychosocial as well if I wasn't.
39:01
Yeah really yeah.
39:04
Yeah. Fantastic. Right. We've got some lovely comments. We've got the guests
39:07
thinking, oh, the guests, sorry, they are our guests.
39:09
They've got our guests, the people who have joined us live. They're having a nice little think.
39:13
So Stuart Sahan has mentioned and said, thanks for leaving the comments,
39:17
Stuart. It says, my take on posture is the only bad one is the one you stay in for too long.
39:20
Note to self, move more. No, it's not an April 4th. Great broadcast money.
39:23
Thanks. Thanks, Stuart. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
39:26
Yes, the best posture is the next posture. That was always quite a nice kind of idea, wasn't it?
39:30
Apart from when you've got somebody who can't move much and then you're kind of implying to
39:33
them that they're stuffed and there's plenty of people in a wheelchair don't move
39:36
much and they're not necessarily sucking because of their posture but anyway but
39:39
it's yeah it's a nice idea for a lot of clients nikki mansfield says
39:43
my light bulb moment on posture came when i realized we haven't
39:46
agreed on the definition of posture for me it's dynamic the
39:49
ebp fascists assumed it was static that disconnect
39:52
hurt my brain yes nice when we get away from
39:55
that static idea isn't it which none of us are in very long really
39:58
we're always kind of moving around twisting um i like this
40:01
from jessica jannerman as well jess says so
40:05
much of my active training was adopting a posture and seeing how
40:07
that made you feel look at the world breathe to form a character i often think
40:12
that now as a massage therapist it's still a useful thing to do to understand
40:16
how the client is moving through the world that's really nice yeah jessica i
40:20
have a book really nice well there's a book by victoria wall walsley that you would love,
40:27
feel free to message me. These will be in the links, of course.
40:30
The Emmy reading book list will be there. Yeah, in my library.
40:34
And why, Jess says, to understand that person as a whole person,
40:36
if you see what I mean. We do see what you mean, Jessica. It's a lovely way
40:39
of putting it. That's lovely.
40:40
Really lovely. How the client is moving through the world. That's really nice.
40:43
We're just going to take some questions and if you can answer us to come back,
40:46
we'd love this idea. Great.
40:47
Okay. Wonderful reflections. We're going to squeeze in the other questions.
40:54
Post that you did, which is only about four days later. You want to roll.
40:57
My dog's come in and opened the door. Go for it. That's fine.
41:00
That's no problem at all.
41:01
But the other one which Imi shared shortly after, about four or five days after, was.
41:11
Why maintenance massage isn't a luxury. Okay. And this was shared again in the Hands On Hub.
41:18
And I think it was in reaction to somebody who did, somebody who's going to
41:22
be on the show in three weeks' time who did suggest it was Tristan.
41:26
We could say Tristan's Adam's name. That's fine. We love Tristan.
41:29
It makes me sound that everything I write is... Only he thinks that is fine, aren't we? No, it's not.
41:36
Only if he thinks that you wake up in the morning thinking, right,
41:39
what's Tristan written today? I'm going...
41:41
Because I agree with him but I just want to... Of course, you're blessed to
41:44
both as they pay. There's no doubt about that.
41:46
But no, it was nice because it was just to use that word and later on he followed
41:49
it up and kind of said, yes, it depends how you define the word luxury.
41:54
But it was a really interesting point that you came out of it because I think
41:57
a lot of clients do get this idea that massage is a bit of a luxury.
42:01
You know, I've got something else I could spend my money on.
42:02
I don't deserve that sort of thing, which is a real shame because you came up
42:05
with some amazing examples of how when massage is not a luxury,
42:08
it shouldn't be regarded as a luxury.
42:10
So, yeah, you said, I mean, you started off the post kind of saying,
42:14
yes, if you go to a spa and it's like a birthday, you made some spill the tea
42:18
reference to a program I haven't watched. Was it Broadchurch or something? Or was it?
42:23
Bridgerton I had no idea when I'm way over my head I had no idea what that was
42:27
I just kept reading on it's like Broadchurch with more bustles oh really oh
42:32
that's why my wife watches it okay that's fair,
42:35
but then you pointed out when someone comes to you because they're in pain
42:38
stressed anxious burnt out exhausted very emotive
42:41
in me as always not on top form want to maximise their
42:44
sport or indeed their life our support becomes
42:47
healthcare and that's what I think annoyed you or frustrated you about the use
42:51
of the word or the idea that massage is a luxury would you care to expand on
42:56
that in me yeah i mean i see it a lot though i the trouble is when you start
43:02
like looking my algorithm sense seems to send me.
43:05
Various massaging things and someone as their
43:08
tagline on their instagram thing said i
43:11
don't do fluff and this was somebody who like
43:15
who what they i think i wrote another post at some point
43:17
about scraping and cupping it was one of those people who
43:20
sort of scrapes people till they bleed I don't
43:23
do fluff I do fluff and I'm proud of it fluff
43:26
is great you know because
43:29
there's this again this perception that and I
43:33
think a lot of us get stuck in
43:36
between you know that kind of
43:38
therapist who does things to people in order
43:41
to physically break
43:44
down tissues all of that and then what well if it's
43:48
not that then it's fluff and woo woo and and
43:51
not does immaterial and and in between
43:54
I like to think is me well which I'm
43:57
neither of those things but I think we get sort of stuck with these sort of
44:02
polarizing labels and there's a vast swathe of people in the middle just trying
44:06
to do good simple work that get labeled
44:10
you know with that or people don't understand that it you You know,
44:14
it can have value in different ways. Yeah.
44:18
It's not, yeah, there's one of my other frustrations that it's not always valued.
44:25
Because it gets perceived as either being fluffy or out of date.
44:31
It says a lot about attitudes, doesn't it? You know, this idea of indulgence,
44:35
luxury, I don't deserve it. That was the phrase you used, Matt.
44:40
It says a lot about sort of what we think we are worth and also a lot of judgment around ourselves.
44:50
And I bet there is quite a bit of subconscious judgment around people who do
44:55
value themselves enough to seek something, you know, maybe just because it feels good.
45:04
I think Jack did a podcast, didn't he, a couple of years ago about because it
45:11
feels good and then challenging that that is a bad thing.
45:16
But I mean, I mean, I was lovely and bigged up my coaching.
45:20
I am a client of IMI's and I'm not sure that I consciously articulate why I
45:28
choose to go and see IMI but it's a very conscious thing when I do it and it's
45:31
I want to feel the way IMI's interventions make me feel.
45:37
And I think it almost goes back to this organising your body.
45:41
I find with a really intuitive therapist like Imi, I can work out a lot of stuff that's going on for me.
45:48
And I can sort of reorganise myself.
45:51
But I need, you know, when I've decided to go and see Imi, it's because I can't
45:55
work that all out myself in that moment.
45:57
And touch and certain types of movement and the environment.
46:03
I really like what Imi does and where she works. and
46:06
that really works for me not it doesn't feel like just a passive receiving or
46:12
something that is lovely but it also helps me work out quite a lot of stuff
46:16
for myself of how to how to get myself out of a pickle whatever that might be
46:22
and the other thing sorry just just something you said there which interests me you said,
46:27
I think you said, and where she works. Yes. Have you ever been to Emmy's?
46:32
No, but I think that's a really interesting, curious thing to say,
46:35
because it's not just there for that.
46:36
This is this Matlow again. I'm just thinking of, you know, we was talking about
46:40
the environment and everything.
46:41
I've got to think past it, but you're suggesting the environment is an important
46:44
factor in the treatment as well as what Emmy's actually doing to you.
46:47
It is, and I love it. You drive up to Emmy's room is in a sort of trading estate,
46:52
isn't it, Emmy? And you drive up and you know what?
46:55
I always think clients must say, oh my god where what
46:59
is this because it's not glamorous at all no
47:02
I mean the first impression is oh have I got the right place and then you walk
47:05
in and I described the way you miskitted it out I describe as an old-fashioned
47:09
apostarchy you know she's got cabinets with books and interesting things on
47:15
the masses of plants everywhere the most beautiful bed coverings and it's it doesn't feel like
47:22
luxury spa you know fairy blankets and marble it feels interesting and cozy and.
47:33
It feels it makes me feel curious it sparks
47:36
my curiosity and i and that i'd say
47:39
the same with the treatment that you receive from emmy as
47:41
well it sparks your curiosity about yourself and
47:44
your body and what's going on your head that's such
47:47
an interesting way of putting it i'm sparking curiosity in
47:50
yourself because it is lovely because it shows how the treatment is not having
47:56
something just done to you that's going to change you it's it's part of affecting
47:59
you to to manage yourself and to think which is you know it ties back into that
48:04
imi is bringing awareness to me or myself.
48:09
Yeah i mean you know when when i
48:12
went to see joe we're just in a
48:15
love you know when or when when you
48:18
have motivational interview when you see a therapist they
48:21
will use maybe words to draw from you
48:24
rather than they don't do to you they don't
48:27
tell you what you should feel and what you should do
48:30
they draw it from you and and they
48:32
might use words whereas you
48:36
know with with a massage like appointments and right from
48:39
when you come in that context and the touch and
48:41
the movement and the maybe some words the conversations you
48:45
might have around things and that
48:48
it allows people to find within
48:51
themselves maybe what what they were looking for rather
48:55
than you know I'm going to change this and do that it's
48:58
just I hate this phrase really but holding space you're giving people the opportunity
49:04
to think about things and be curious and notice or not think about things for
49:10
other people and to start outside their busy minds and their busy worlds so
49:16
yeah it's just offering different.
49:18
Context i guess yeah very good i can't
49:21
remember there's yourself or anna maria but it's just removing that word just
49:24
from any sentence with massage it does never go together oh it's
49:27
just a massage where you going on just just a massage i mean he's getting
49:30
rid of that yeah and and i wonder
49:33
joe is do we have a problem with
49:36
looking after ourselves gorgeous you know
49:40
why is that why should we feel guilty
49:44
as you know about taking proactive care of our health and we know now you know
49:51
that low level constant stress is really really bad for us and we know that you know.
50:02
Going back to the social thing, we know that lack of social interaction is really,
50:07
really bad for a lot of my clients are older.
50:11
And for some of them, they don't get a lot of social interaction and they definitely
50:15
don't get any sort of touch.
50:18
And so we know those things are so important.
50:22
But we, again, we don't pay them as much attention as maybe what we put in our
50:27
mouths or how much we move.
50:29
But they are part of health.
50:32
You know that well-being is part of health so it's
50:36
valuing valuing that more yeah and I think you could say it's definitely a health
50:42
care professional thing and you know all the you know I'm supposed to look after
50:45
the people not myself but it's not just health care professionals it's probably
50:49
a bit of a British thing as well but I mean absolutely yes we have a problem with,
50:54
looking after ourselves and definitely have a problem with talking about it
50:58
to other people But I think.
51:00
You know, I often say when I'm trying to persuade healthcare professionals to
51:04
look after themselves, I just get them to consider the message they're portraying
51:09
to the clients in front of them.
51:11
You know, I'm telling you all these things that you should do for yourself that
51:15
will make you healthier and make you feel better.
51:18
And look at me, I'm exhausted and worn out. And as opposed to,
51:23
yeah, this person actually looks like they practice what they preach.
51:27
You know imagine if we did start just being
51:30
much more open with our friends and family about how many massages
51:33
we have because it fills all the
51:37
positive things that you know whatever it does for us or therefore give them
51:41
permission to do that if we just took the i don't know the it seemed to build
51:47
up a whole lot of pressure around this idea of looking after ourselves don't
51:50
we and a lot of judgment around it what if we just dialed that down um,
51:55
Yeah, being kinder to ourselves. And then, you know, by doing that,
52:00
you're healthier, you're a nicer person, you're calmer.
52:07
The other bit that when I read your piece, I mean, I'm not sure if you were
52:11
directly referring to this, but it made me think about conversations in healthcare generally,
52:16
this idea of going back to the sort of family doctor scenario,
52:20
not in some kind of sentimental Doc Martin way or for that reason.
52:24
But people are realising that actually there's huge value in having somebody
52:29
who sees you regularly enough to notice small changes and understands when you
52:35
describe small changes in your health,
52:37
whether that's a doctor or a soft tissue therapist or a physio or podiatrist or whatever.
52:42
Just somebody who sees you quite regularly and understands your language and
52:48
how you normally appear.
52:50
For sure yeah you know you i've
52:54
got clients that i've had longer than my children
52:57
and you see yeah you know if something's not right or then you know there's
53:02
something up and and they come in and the first i don't know i i leave half
53:06
an hour between appointments so there's never that rush and sometimes you just
53:10
get that sense that people have got something to offload and and it's fine.
53:15
We'll start when we start how's things and then like Matt says you just stop and,
53:21
be quiet and it comes out. And it's lovely to have that relationship with them.
53:29
I'm very privileged that they trust me to say that.
53:33
And that can inform them what we do on the table or what have you.
53:38
And we don't get that from the GP anymore. And it's not their fault.
53:42
They can't provide that service. There's too many people and not enough of them.
53:46
And they've got these 10-minute spots. But we can at least listen to them.
53:51
To people and validate people and yeah that's hugely valuable and in your case
53:58
i mean make really sensible referrals off the back of it as well often yeah
54:01
if i think if yeah if i you know i don't even suggest it they usually end up
54:07
saying something like i think i probably should do something about that i'm saying yeah.
54:13
And touch itself. I think we saw in, you know, certainly in lockdown,
54:18
the effects of that social isolation,
54:21
whether that, you know, we could still speak to people like this on Zoom and
54:26
what have you, but it's not the same as that, you know, touch.
54:30
And again, for a lot of older clients, they don't get that.
54:34
And especially us Brits. I think it was in that David Linden book, Touch,
54:38
they did, there was a study where they looked at people sat at cafe tables and
54:42
how many times they sort of touched each other in the process of conversation
54:46
in France, in Italy and in England. I think England was zero.
54:51
So we don't necessarily, in the world now where we might be working from home,
54:56
we're on our computers a lot more we're not
55:00
get guessing that kind of interaction and
55:03
as a species we need it and it's funny isn't
55:06
it it's socially acceptable to take a pill or have an operation or receive a
55:12
treatment for something that is troubling you but it's not so okay to talk to
55:18
somebody about it or to be touched to try and improve it and yet what do we
55:22
all crave you know when we're when we're sad We want a hug.
55:25
What's the thing that we do when, you know, when all else fails,
55:28
when someone, you know, is at the end of life, we might just hold their hand.
55:33
You know, there's touches, you know, and there are studies, maybe not on people,
55:38
but there's huge studies on,
55:41
sadly, rats and monkeys where they, you know, deprive them of touch with really
55:45
quite horrible consequences. And we're mammals as well.
55:49
I mean, we have evolved to need social touch.
55:53
So it's a really important thing to have that available for people,
55:57
you know, in a safe environment for people who might not otherwise get it.
56:03
Wow that was yeah illuminating very
56:07
important so definitely yeah without a doubt it's not
56:09
always a luxury Tristan so there
56:12
we go I don't know that's exactly but it's
56:19
important because it's like so many
56:22
people can say things like this on social media
56:25
we know what they mean but it's the people who are reading
56:28
it not necessarily the younger therapists but they're less exposed
56:32
to humans therapists who doesn't understand the incredible
56:35
variety out there who take it the wrong way and and
56:38
they jump to conclusions so it's it's good that we have these conversations i
56:41
think you summed it up nicely and what we've been saying today with regards
56:45
to massage not being a luxury you wrote and i'm quoting you here someone much
56:49
wiser than me recently said we are now also scared of being that therapist who
56:53
over treats we're actually far more often under treating yeah that was fran
56:57
from barefoot clinic who Who needs to get out there and say more things.
57:03
She says some amazing stuff.
57:05
Yeah, I think we get embarrassed to say that we're massage therapists.
57:12
There's so many, I'm sort of like.
57:14
Wannabe physios instead of proud to be massage therapists out there.
57:19
And I think we need to, as, as, as a, you know, certainly as STTs and sports
57:24
massage therapists and massage therapists start actually being blinking proud
57:29
of what we can offer and what we can do, what is evidenced.
57:33
It's not necessarily the way that where we thought that evidence would be.
57:38
It's called psychosocial and neurological, but start being proud of what we
57:43
can offer and the value that we can bring instead of being slightly embarrassed
57:47
about it and moving straight onto the exercises.
57:50
You know, we, that's what we are. If you don't want to be a massage therapist,
57:54
don't do massage, do something else, go and train and be a physiotherapist or be something else.
58:00
But we need to be, yeah, I get, that's what my vent is.
58:03
That's what my frustration is that we're not, we're not like yeah no do you
58:07
know what i'm i'm proud of what i can offer i bring value and the irony in me
58:11
i think you and i had this conversation early on in our coaching you put physio
58:16
in that sentence every single thing you just said holds true you know so.
58:21
The gross definitely isn't greener in the physio we are all
58:24
having the same internal battles exactly the same you know
58:27
not being quite sure what we're defined by anymore the
58:31
stuff the first sentence that you said absolutely true you
58:34
were taught certain stuff that doesn't hold up against the evidence anymore
58:38
but there is a different explanation for the things that you do you don't have
58:43
to chuck the baby out of the bathwater every single time you just have to not
58:47
be threatened when the the reasons why things are working or not working are
58:51
not quite what you were taught at uni. Yeah.
58:55
That's good. I remember Jack, actually, Jack Chu, you mentioned before,
58:58
I think he did one of the first episodes, second, third.
59:01
And he was saying that it's exactly the same in every profession.
59:04
Physiotherapists have this idea that they're kind of dropped out from medical
59:07
school, didn't quite make it to that, so they became a physio.
59:10
And then the doctors, they're kind of, I'm not really a surgeon.
59:13
And everybody, wherever you see it in there, kind of thinks.
59:16
Has this fear that they're not whoever is above them.
59:19
We're not quite there so here's a comment we all play a valuable part
59:22
i think you know i've just started working with a physiotherapist
59:26
and it that is so nice then you can see
59:29
i mean maybe we just need to collaborate more then you can see kind of
59:32
oh god here is where i slot in and i bring something here and
59:35
she brings something there we all bring value and
59:38
we appreciate each other you know when i've spoken
59:41
to joe or you know i think if we
59:44
can collaborate and understand each other more then
59:47
maybe maybe yeah we're all more similar than
59:50
we think wise words there
59:53
that wasn't francesca morgan that was immy tester just
59:56
so everybody knows there right okay so we've definitely
59:59
reached the end of the hour look i'm keeping you along in the centerwood what have
1:00:01
you guys got coming up anything interesting coming up immy what
1:00:05
have you got coming up yeah so i've just as i said i've
1:00:07
started working with another joe joe crawley from physio
1:00:11
avenue in yate in south gloucestershire
1:00:14
and we're working on a program that's designed for people
1:00:17
as they get older to help support them
1:00:19
to maintain mobility and strength and balance so they can still do all the things
1:00:25
that they need to do as as as we age and she's actually going to be taking over
1:00:30
my business come september because i'm going to uni and so i can just rock up
1:00:37
and do my thing and go ahead what are you studying at university?
1:00:40
It's occupational therapy. Okay. Shout out for the OTs. Yes.
1:00:45
Which, Jo, help me decide.
1:00:47
Which direction to go when I wasn't sure. Thank you. Wonderful.
1:00:52
And so that's something directly for the public, is it?
1:00:56
The program? Yes. Yes, it is. Yes. Okay, so we can put something in the notes.
1:01:01
There might be something that therapists who are listening to clinicians might be interested in.
1:01:04
If they're in need, this will be the South Gloucestershire area,
1:01:07
something they could go along to.
1:01:09
Okay, we'll make sure that link goes in the show notes. And that was in April, did you say?
1:01:14
We're hoping to launch by the end of the summer before
1:01:17
i go to uni so okay fantastic this is the first open
1:01:20
hours and i'll keep forgetting we're already in april somehow don't know that
1:01:22
happened fantastic thank you emmy and joe what have you are coming up joanne
1:01:27
elphinstone and i've got the next session of coaching unappealed which is a
1:01:31
two-day course teaching coaching skills to clinicians so it's for you to be
1:01:36
able to use coaching skills in your clinical environment,
1:01:40
that's the 16th and 17th of April so we've got some space for that if you can
1:01:44
still sign up for that if you want and I personally am coming to the end with
1:01:49
a couple of my one-to-one coaching clients so if anybody is curious about having
1:01:54
a chat about having one-to-one coaching then drop me an email you can.
1:02:00
Message on LinkedIn, whatever. Fantastic. I'll make sure links to all of that
1:02:04
goes into the show notes.
1:02:06
Wonderful. Right. So thank you so much for our part one of frustrations,
1:02:12
commonly felt by MSK clinicians.
1:02:13
I like it because we've come up with some solutions as well,
1:02:16
haven't we? We've come up with what's frustrating. We've looked at how to not
1:02:18
be frustrated and the relevance of not being frustrated.
1:02:21
So it's all been very positive. And we can continue this next week for people.
1:02:25
Thank you for everyone who joined us live before I forget. Sometimes I forget to thank you
1:02:28
for your questions but we've got a wonderful testimonial for your
1:02:31
website here um nikki sorry i mean
1:02:33
nikki mansfield says i drove five hours for a
1:02:36
treatment with me and i do it again extraordinary balance
1:02:40
of luxury geekiness safety and curiosity in a
1:02:42
beautiful space filled with life felt like permission to
1:02:45
relax well thank you stick that on your
1:02:48
website yeah well i just wrote down permission to relax
1:02:51
i'm stealing thank you and then davy boy ferretti
1:02:54
sorry if that's not the right pronunciation has said thanks for joining us Davey
1:02:58
boy says that's exactly the type of clinic room that I'd like I think referring
1:03:01
to yours Amy I have the idea of Sherlock Holmes's front room there you go yeah
1:03:05
description it's amazing Amy pop some pictures online of it because it really
1:03:09
is I don't think you quite I am more telling you how amazing it is I'm just going.
1:03:14
Recently it was getting a bit too eclectic I did recently smiling in the corner.
1:03:20
Right. Okay. So, fantastic. So, like I said, next week, we're going to continue
1:03:23
this conversation of common frustrations.
1:03:24
So, if you listen to the podcast and you want to join us and just go along,
1:03:27
oh, no, not next week. No, no, no. It's Easter.
1:03:29
We'll be back Tuesday, April the 14th. So, skip next week. April the 14th,
1:03:33
we'll be back on the Tuesday, 8 o'clock, back to Tuesday.
1:03:36
And I'm going to be joined by my special guest, Carla Bickerstaff,
1:03:39
who a lot of people will know from the STA and from Therapy Show or Therapy
1:03:43
Expo and also being on the podcast.
1:03:44
And also Emily Gilbert, who likewise has been on the show. And they're going
1:03:47
to talk about their common frustrations which is going to
1:03:50
revolve a lot around online courses and
1:03:54
problems with people coming out calling themselves
1:03:57
sports therapists and having done very little and also
1:04:00
how soft skills why are they called soft skills and and when
1:04:03
are we going to stop calling them soft skills that's going to be the frustration shared by
1:04:06
Carla and Emily and then the week after we're
1:04:09
going to have Ben Cormack and Adam Meekins told you this was the
1:04:11
year of collaboration I'm having Adam Meekins on the show to
1:04:15
talk about the Better Collision Project because they're coming to therapy show
1:04:18
in november so i thought right this is the year of
1:04:21
collaboration let's get on the show and when it comes to frustrations kind
1:04:24
of works both ways adam meekins is very frustrated and
1:04:28
a lot of people get frustrated yeah so that'll be adam
1:04:31
and ben on the show i'm really looking forward to catching up with them be really
1:04:33
nice and also i wish adam all the best i believe he's in hospital at the moment
1:04:37
i saw a post unless it's an april falls i'm hoping it's so not an april falls
1:04:40
but if you are if that is real adam and i hate i'm even doubting it but april
1:04:44
falls is weird and she gets 26 and i hope you will and everything's okay and
1:04:48
then the week after we'll be ending the month with tristan attenborough.
1:04:51
Who will be talking about why
1:04:53
massage is just a luxury and how there's no such thing as good posture.
1:04:59
So that will be, yeah, and why we should be concentrating more on the bio.
1:05:03
So that'll be with Tristan at the end of the month. No, I'm joking.
1:05:05
Tristan Aspen is going to be coming. It's a good month.
1:05:07
It's a fantastic month for Tristan because we'll be talking about,
1:05:10
basically, just the presentations I've seen with Tristan are amazing.
1:05:13
We'll be talking about his frustration, how natural it is for humans just to
1:05:17
have things like confirmation bias and how we can't really,
1:05:20
I don't like saying this we can't trust ourselves we need to
1:05:23
be aware of how our cognitive kind of
1:05:26
biases are there and this really creeps a lot into MSK
1:05:29
healthcare and once we're aware of that and we don't beat ourselves up about
1:05:32
it then we can do an awful lot more for the sake of the patient and our practice
1:05:36
so that's going to be a really nice subordering into philosophical conclusion
1:05:39
to the month but just for now then I'd like to thank once more thank you Imi
1:05:43
Tester owner of Back on Track Soft Tissue Therapy thanks Imi,
1:05:47
Thank you Thank you very much for acknowledging my thanks to you.
1:05:51
And Jo Turner, founder of mehab.co.uk. Thanks for joining us, Jo.
1:05:55
Pleasure. Have a lovely Easter, you too, and everybody else.
1:05:58
It's true, and everyone else celebrates it. Have some great time.
1:06:00
Enjoy your week off. And thank you for joining us live.
1:06:03
And hopefully, if you're around, you listen to the podcast, then join us in
1:06:05
a couple of weeks, like I say, with Carla Bickerstaff and Emily Gilbert.
1:06:09
Until then, take care of yourselves and take care of each other.