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Mini: 666 · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Why We Do What We Do Mini. I
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: am your host Abraham and I'm your host Shane. We
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things that
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: humans and non human animals do. And we are in
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: the middle of October. That means that we are talking
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: about spooky season, creepy things even on our minis.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, we are. It's all spooky all the time.
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  Speaker 1: Indeed, last week we talked about our ip as an
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  Speaker 1: initialism for tombstones and things dying. And today we're doing
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: a mini about numbers. And conveniently, this many comes out
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  Speaker 1: on the thirteenth, which in Western tradition is an unlucky number,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: lucky for some, but has a sort of special spooky significance.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: There's like the movie Friday the thirteenth. Anyway, it's a
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  Speaker 1: prime number. People like to use it for spooky things.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's when we're coming out.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think of like thirteenth floors.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, like are the ones that don't exist,
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  Speaker 3: even though thirteen is fourteen, We just don't number it right.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. We just say that it's fourteen, even though
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: if you count them it is in fact thirteen. Now
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  Speaker 1: we're talking about numbers. But before we do that, I
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: would like to let you know that if you enjoy
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: what you hear today and you like to support us,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: you can join us on Patreon, pick up some merch,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: leave us a rating and a review, or go tell
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: a friend. I'll talk more about how you can support
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: us at the end of this discussion. If you're joining
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: us for the first time, welcome. We hope you enjoy
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: what you hear today. And if you're a returning person,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: then welcome back. We're really glad that you keep checking
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: out our podcast. This is not our six hundred and
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  Speaker 1: sixty sixth mini, although you might think that it was
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: based on the title of this It would have been
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: a fantastic coincidence if that was the case, but I
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: don't think that will be the case for like several
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: more years. It is actually the five hundred and twentieth
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  Speaker 1: thing we've published, which is Miny's plus regular episodes plus Nostalgias.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: So we were like kind of closedish, I guess, but
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: still one hundred and forty six away, But that's where
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: we're at with that. It would have been cool, but
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: it's fine where it's it's our five hundred and twentieth thing,
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  Speaker 1: it's coming out on the thirteenth, which I think is
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  Speaker 1: the more fun thing.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.
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  Speaker 3: Now, you know, as we're talking about this, in Christian traditions,
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  Speaker 3: the number sixty six to six is considered evil. It's
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  Speaker 3: associated with the devil, and it should be avoided and
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: regarded with an abundance of fear.
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  Speaker 2: Like, we don't we don't like this number.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but how did six sixty six come to be
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  Speaker 1: associated with evil? With satanicness? And do other cultures also
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  Speaker 1: have evil numbers? Those are the questions we're going to
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  Speaker 1: tackle in understanding the history of six sixty six as
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: a thing. Because we talk about history because history is
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: psychology kind of.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean history is behavior, and behavior and events
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: are all shapey our psychology and something something cultural selection,
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: something something medicantgencies, so on and so over right.
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  Speaker 2: So let's go ahead and get into this.
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  Speaker 3: Though it may be of little surprise the listeners, particularly
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  Speaker 3: those scholarly Christians, if we even have any of those,
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  Speaker 3: that six to' six can be traced back to the Bible,
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  Speaker 3: specifically the Book of Revelations, which is the scariest book
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  Speaker 3: of all, but specifically Revelations thirteen eleven through eighteen, and
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  Speaker 3: specifically just thirteen eighteen is cited the most often. In
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  Speaker 3: his passage reads, here is wisdom. Let him who have
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  Speaker 3: under who has understanding, calculate the number of the beast.
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  Speaker 3: For the number is that of a man, and his
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  Speaker 3: number is six six six, the number.
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  Speaker 2: Of the beast.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, I did not throw any iron made in references
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: in here, So I'm glad that you, uh, you brought.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: It up at that. I had to. How could I
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  Speaker 2: let that go?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's true, it really really begs for that,
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  Speaker 1: So I'm glad that. Yeah. Anyway, numbers do play a
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  Speaker 1: really important role in the Christian Bible. Seven is a
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  Speaker 1: holy number, ten appear as men times, there's the Holy Trinity,
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  Speaker 1: et cetera. And amateur sleuths have also pointed out other
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: similarities to sort of physical reality that may have influenced
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  Speaker 1: the employment of these numbers in the Bible. We have
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  Speaker 1: ten fingers. Ten shows up a lot. We use a
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  Speaker 1: base ten counting system. There are three dimensions in physical space.
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  Speaker 1: You kind of have length widthin height, which is sometimes
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  Speaker 1: described as up, down, left, right, forward backward.
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  Speaker 2: I thought you're gonna say up, down, left, right, aba
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  Speaker 2: b start.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly that as well super Nintendo codes that may
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  Speaker 1: have informed this. There's a lot of I think correspondence
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  Speaker 1: between physical reality and the importance of numbers. And numbers
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  Speaker 1: are used very frequently in the Bible in very deliberate
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  Speaker 1: and intentional ways that seem like maybe fantastical. It's like,
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  Speaker 1: is a really ten? Like there was one about like
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  Speaker 1: a ten headed beast with ten crowns on its head
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  Speaker 1: or something, and it's like why ten? And I think
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  Speaker 1: it's just because these numbers bear some level of importance here.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Now, a couple of sources we found identified the Book
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  Speaker 3: of Revelations as having been written in Greek originally, and
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  Speaker 3: this is actually really important because the Greeks did not
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  Speaker 3: use numbers. In fact, many cultures did not at this time.
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  Speaker 3: Our Arabic numbers did not exist until centuries later, and
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  Speaker 3: instead letters were given numerical values, and letters came to
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  Speaker 3: represent numbers. In Greek, this is called isopsaphe isopsophe. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: but Hebrew had a similar system called Gemetria or Gymetria. Now,
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  Speaker 3: for example, in Geometria, letters A through J were one
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  Speaker 3: through ten, and then each subsequent letter was valued ten
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  Speaker 3: to one hundred, and then each subsequent letter after that
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  Speaker 3: was increasing values of one hundred.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it was like one through ten and then ten, twenty, thirty,
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  Speaker 1: forty up to one hundred, and then one hundred, two hundred,
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  Speaker 1: three hundred, et cetera. Both of these were used. Again
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  Speaker 1: that it was like letters were quantitative values. And the
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  Speaker 1: most common example that most people recognize is Roman numerals.
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  Speaker 1: Like Roman numerals, you'll have like V means five and
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  Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Yeah, so all these letters have these,
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  Speaker 1: and then that was how they talked about things. So
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  Speaker 1: in this tradition, it was very common to play with
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  Speaker 1: letters as numbers and numbers as letters because they had
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  Speaker 1: quantitative values assigned to them. And so, according to timas Weyman,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: who was a biblical scholar Brigham Young University, there were
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  Speaker 1: some even some Roman inscriptions that use this sort of wordplay,
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  Speaker 1: substituting letters for numbers. There was some inscription they found
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: that said quote, I love her whose number is oney
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  Speaker 1: three hundred and eight, and again like because they could
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  Speaker 1: say a number for a thing, and that represented the
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  Speaker 1: words for the thing.
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  Speaker 3: Right, And so, speaking of evil numbers, here's an ad
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  Speaker 3: which probably has an evil phone number in it.
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  Speaker 1: Indeed, don't call that that evil number. It six seven, five,
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  Speaker 1: three oh nine.
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  Speaker 2: Oh Jenny, the most evil of numbers.
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  Speaker 1: Yeap. Now, using this, it was believed by some, and
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: by they, I mean using this idea of like playing
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: with letters as numbers. It was believed by some, or
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: at least treated with interest, that what happened is that
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  Speaker 1: you had some words or names that might have the
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: exact same numerical value because of how you would add
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: up the quantities that were associated with those numbers, and
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  Speaker 1: the fact that they were the same with that relation
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  Speaker 1: that indicated some kind of special relationship between those two words.
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  Speaker 1: So you can have a very long word that had
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  Speaker 1: sort of letters that were at the early part of
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  Speaker 1: the alphabet that had the exact same quantitative value as
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  Speaker 1: a very short word that had letters that were toward
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  Speaker 1: the end of the alphabet. Because if you're thinking about
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  Speaker 1: the fact that the last several letters of the alphabet,
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  Speaker 1: the last ten or so would have values of one hundred,
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  Speaker 1: two hundred, three hundred versus some letters that only have
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  Speaker 1: a value of one, two, three, four five, then you
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  Speaker 1: could have these random, these very random quantities of numbers,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: like words that would range from like fifteen to one thousand,
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  Speaker 1: three hundred and eight for example, where it represents this
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  Speaker 1: not necessarily wide range of numbers, but just where they
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  Speaker 1: happened to fall in the alphabet. But so it was
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  Speaker 1: like very very random that you would ever have two
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  Speaker 1: words that had the exact same quantitative value, and yet
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  Speaker 1: it happened, and so that was treated almost mystically. It's
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  Speaker 1: kind of like whoa look at that these things are
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  Speaker 1: the same value.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, So, taken together, this suggested six y' six was
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  Speaker 3: actually a somewhat coded message to Christians that they would
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  Speaker 3: understand what was being reference to this message at the
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: time that it was written, though not now different different times, right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like the message was probably lost over time.
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  Speaker 1: But again that's why biblical scholars are interested in studying
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: that sort of things.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Now, importantly, in earlier translations of the Bible, the actual
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  Speaker 1: number was six' one six instead of six sixty. Six,
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  Speaker 1: sure and again because like it wasn't necessarily that it
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: was just in reference to, something and that something had
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: to do with how the sort of quantitative value that
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  Speaker 1: was assigned to. Numbers but either, way the most common
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  Speaker 1: association to six sixty six is that Of roman Emperor Caesar.
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  Speaker 1: Nero the translation To hebrew as nr wn qsr Or
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  Speaker 1: Neron Keyser, keser which is n e R o n
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  Speaker 1: k e S A. R i, know that's a lot
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: of letters to be thrown at you and. Everything, yeah
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: but the point being is that if you were to
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  Speaker 1: add up those, letters the value of each adds up
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: to six sixty. Six and this is the reason most
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: scholars point To Caesar niro as the who this is
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: in reference. To it also makes sense, too Because Caesar
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: niro brutally Prosecuted, christians and so they they really did
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: see him as being like an enemy of their religion
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: and of their people.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: Right and to be, fair the number six six six
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: shows up in other parts of The bible without any
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: special significance to a beast or. Personage so In Two
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: chronicles nine thirteen and One kings ten to, fourteen it
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: is noted That soloman received six hundred and sixty six
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: talent of gold per, year and In ezra two, thirteen
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  Speaker 3: after The Israelite adonokam returns from, exile he has six
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: hundred and sixty six.
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  Speaker 2: Descendants, yeah and it's.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Hard to like figure out if that has any specific
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: relevance or. Meaning but it showed up, there so like
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: it's a, yeah you, know it's anyone's guess as to
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: why it seemed. Relevant but other biblical scholars do like
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: to point to the fact that repetition of numbers also
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: had specific, significance particularly in The, bible but also just
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: among people at the, time and so a number three
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: times was really common In hebrew to express. Emphasis you,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: have of course six sixty, six but then you might
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: also see the number seven seven, Seven and there was
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: even the instances of three three, Three so like the
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: just repeating something twice or having three iterations of it
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: was sort of a way of emphasizing a. Thing, furthermore
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: as it's related to sort Of biblical And christian, traditions
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: seven was considered a divine complete number and the number
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Of Jesus christ sometimes actually to pay did as seven
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  Speaker 1: seven seven six is an, incomplete cheap knockoff of the important.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Number it's like close but. Incomplete it's, wrong and that's
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: why six six six is the Anti christ To jesus'
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: seven seven. Seven it's the imitation Of christ but failing
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: to do so and doing it and failing with mal. Intent,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Right so that's that's like another potential link between those two.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: Numbers right, now as far as we can, find other
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: cultures don't really have a number quite a significant or
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: evil as, six six to six In, christianity although there
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: are a lot of numbers that are associated with good
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: and bad.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Luck, yeah so thirteen is really a commonly unlucky number
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: In western. Traditions as we've, mentioned like buildings you will
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: often see do not have a labeled thirteenth floor or
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: to go to twelve to, fourteen whereas In eastern traditions
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: they don't have the same relationship to the number, thirteen
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: but instead the number. Four this is pronounced as see and,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: mandarin which is similar to the word see and, mandarin
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: which also means. Death and AS i, said in many
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: buildings you won't find the thirteenth, floor but In china
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: you instead won't find a fourth floor for the very same.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Reason and, relatedly double this number you get, eight which
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: apparently the. Number the word for eight sounds very similar
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: to the word that also means wealth and is therefore
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: considered very. Lucky so you have four is. Unlucky eight is,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: lucky even though it has no special significance TO. Us
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: thirteen does TO, us and four and eight due to.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Them and THEN i saw one source that said that
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: thirty nine is considered an unlucky number In. AFGHANISTAN i
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: mean this was there was a story related about some
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: pimp and. Prostitution and this is all according to an,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Author john boone. Of he wrote a twenty eleven article
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: in The guardian about this, topic suggesting that thirty nine
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: was like an unlucky number In, afghanistan.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: Right, right, Right so for, fun we decided to calculate
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: our names in. Isopsophy and so AND i, say We
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: abraham did, this and this is really really.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Fun.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah so my Name shane comes out to equal two
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: hundred and sixty four or two hundred and eighty two
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: In English Jemetria. Ormatica abraham comes out to one fifty
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: three or two sixty four In. Gymetria but for those
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Numerologist christians out, there if you would Recall Donald trump's
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: original family name was drump spelled d r u. Mpf
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: The English gemetria Of Don drumph is six six.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: SIX i did not make that.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Up that is actually.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Real so oh, Man Happy, halloween everybody because what that's
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: just you, know that's too it's too it's too much
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: of a.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Coincidence AND i, LOVE i would love to debunk numerology
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: at some point in a future. Episode but LIKE i,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: said what a it's such a fantastic coincidence when you
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: have numbers that line up to be a particular. Way
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: it was crazy to me that you could get six
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: sixty six From don drump if you put that name in. There,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: yeah and it came out to exactly that. Value and,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: like if you don't believe, me go. Check there are
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of different ways to translate. It there is
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Like english gymetria And hebrew, gymetria and like there's a
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: few different. Types but if you do The english, Gymetria
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: don drumf is six sixty.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Six that's scary the number of the, beast, Right.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Okay if you would like to support, us if you'd
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: like to tell us about your, experience as thoughts or
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: beliefs around the number six sixty six or any other
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: lucky or unlucky, numbers we'd love to hear your. Stories
• 14:20
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• 14:24
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• 14:56
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• 14:58
  Speaker 1: dumb and we don't agree with, them but, yeah we
• 15:00
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• 15:02
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  Speaker 1: Advertisers BUT i think that's what we have to say about.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: This thank you to my team of people for helping
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: me make this. Happen thank you for recording with me, Today.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Shane, yeah thank you for having.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Me thank you to our social media Coordinator Emma wilson
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: and our producer audio Engineer justin who makes everything sound.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Good is there anything THAT i forgot that you'd like
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: to add before we wrap?
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Up nothing else on my?
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: End all, right thank you all for. Listening this Is
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: abraham and this Is shane our very spooky six six
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: six number of The, Beast Why We Do What We
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Do mini is. Out.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Bye you've been listening To Why We Do What We.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Do you can learn more about this and other episodes
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: by going TO WWD wwd podcast dot.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: Com thanks for listening and we hope you have an
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: awesome day