Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart and Frazer Gregory about Twitter’s choice of The Invasion of Time (3/6)

Transcript

Talks to Si Hart and Frazer Gregory about Twitter’s choice of The Invasion of Time (3/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  I'm so drunk. Welcome back to have some with a
• 0:41
  blunt penknife the Doctor Who comedy podcast.
• 0:46
  I'm here today I'm going to go full on Amy Pond and say, I'm
• 0:49
  here today with my boys, not the Poncho for these, the egg with
• 0:55
  the deliriously. Gorgeous Simon heart, say hello
• 0:58
  siren. Hello Andy.
• 1:03
  And I can say this to you further because someone told me
• 1:05
  the other day they've got an accent crush on you.
• 1:09
  The beautifully accented Fraser Gregory.
• 1:12
  Hello Frasier. Oh it did.
• 1:16
  You say? I said alright, in Jordan.
• 1:20
  Thank you very much. Can you do like the whole
• 1:21
  episode in like really thick Jordi?
• 1:23
  Like really thick. Yes, but we don't cover
• 1:28
  subtitles. So that might be a little
• 1:31
  difficult. I want to say sorry, but I don't
• 1:33
  want to offend you Because I've got, I won't be convinced that
• 1:37
  you're a Geordie until I hear you.
• 1:39
  Say dogs for the dawn tea We'll talk about that off mate.
• 2:03
  Okay. All right, okay, well, we're
• 2:07
  here for Invasion of Time episode 3.
• 2:12
  I don't think we could have ended on a more thrilling Point
• 2:15
  than Gallifrey being invaded. Something that happens with
• 2:18
  alarming frequency in the new series.
• 2:21
  Are you gentlemen, ready? I am.
• 2:25
  Ready. Okay, then let's go.
• 2:28
  In five, four, three, two, one. Off we go.
• 2:34
  And so, I have a question for you both stepping into episode
• 2:38
  3. And that is, you could perhaps
• 2:41
  say that the gulf between the conception of the bar bounds and
• 2:46
  the realization of the bar, that is why it do you This is like
• 2:54
  the most disappointing realization.
• 2:59
  Of a monster in Doctor Who I Am. It's just a load of oil being
• 3:02
  waved about things so that adds to the charm
• 3:23
  of the story though. I think this isn't the story
• 3:26
  that you come into This is what I got from industry watch.
• 3:30
  It's not a stormy comment. If we take seriously, you've got
• 3:35
  to appreciate the humor in it and part of that is the screens
• 3:41
  have been people. There's a lot to look in a
• 3:48
  certain way. You know, when we talk about the
• 3:51
  space museum. I said, you know, look at this
• 3:52
  is as a comedy look at is the very Douglas Adams and style
• 3:56
  story. And when I watch the happiness
• 3:58
  Patrol, I look at it as a, as a stage play, not like, you know,
• 4:04
  Pacific Northwest are actually outside.
• 4:06
  I look at it is like a stage play and it helps with the actin
• 4:10
  and some of the dialogue of What Not.
• 4:12
  And with this one, you just gotta look, you've got a watch
• 4:14
  in. You've just gotta laugh and
• 4:15
  enjoy it and it's a busy. But yeah, I don't think they're
• 4:20
  supposed to be funny. I don't think they're supposed
• 4:22
  to be Charming. I think they're supposed to be
• 4:24
  scary. That was the idea was that.
• 4:27
  These were like, you know, these monsters are.
• 4:30
  Invading Gallifrey, you know, No, I think I think this is a
• 4:34
  funny story. I think we're kind of a lot of
• 4:36
  dialogue so far and all some of that was unintentional there
• 4:39
  with warped episode 1. But a lot of the dialogue is
• 4:42
  really funny in the way that tongue bigger is pitching his
• 4:45
  performance. You know, he's, he is marked in
• 4:49
  a sort of eccentric query. That's the way he's playing.
• 4:52
  He's he's he's turned to the dark side is very sort of
• 4:56
  eccentric years and sort of Covenant if they're very
• 4:59
  Sinister angle, it's a very sort of eccentric.
• 5:03
  Angle scares the life out of me. What about you sigh?
• 5:08
  I think the Barton's are almost deliberately crap.
• 5:16
  I think that's the idea to show that Gallifrey could be invaded
• 5:20
  by creatures that are rubbish like this.
• 5:24
  So I think I find it incredibly funny when they turn from the
• 5:29
  tinfoil in two men in green suits Builder.
• 5:32
  The least Threatening. Yeah.
• 5:34
  There's even a line isn't it? There's a line there ways aren't
• 5:37
  they? Disappointed with disappointed
• 5:40
  or something like that, isn't it?
• 5:44
  The bobbins are rubbish. We're okay.
• 5:47
  So I want to earn extrapolate. What you two are saying to me
• 5:49
  here. So in order to appreciate the
• 5:51
  invasion of time, I have 21 going, imagining is a comedy and
• 5:57
  to go in imagining that the monsters are deliberately crap.
• 6:01
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it looks better.
• 6:05
  One of those terms. I freaking love this story.
• 6:08
  Well, there we go. Well, I think as G Williams said
• 6:14
  in the interview that I wanted to in one of the earlier
• 6:16
  episodes they wanted, they conceived them sort of like
• 6:19
  balls of light almost I think like maybe the Megara would
• 6:23
  appear next year where they're sort of slightly different and
• 6:27
  would have been a sort of a little more Sinister but they
• 6:29
  couldn't do that with the constraints of where they have
• 6:32
  to record so they've got to come up with something else so you
• 6:35
  kept fluttering tinfoil, see a sewed onto the screen instead.
• 6:39
  Can you imagine that special effect thinking?
• 6:41
  Worry about like just let you waving tinfoil about, okay,
• 6:44
  really? Oh my word vroom.
• 6:50
  Is absolutely gorgeous. That's a stunning piece of
• 6:54
  design, isn't it? But I think going back to the
• 6:59
  Borden's part of the problem is if dick Mills had just done a
• 7:04
  sound effect that wasn't modulated tinfoil as well, and
• 7:07
  it might have worked slightly better but the two effects
• 7:10
  together it just doesn't it all just makes you think.
• 7:14
  Yeah, there's no money and they're just shaking a bit of
• 7:16
  tin foil here because I can see the school.
• 7:22
  Before we watch this. I thought I was going to come
• 7:24
  into this country for you in the very much defending this
• 7:26
  country. We had it made.
• 7:29
  It was so many production problems.
• 7:31
  Budget problems with all the mystery.
• 7:34
  Let's just be thankful that they actually got made and we got a
• 7:37
  six parts. Do different teams on then you
• 7:40
  enjoy it and enjoy it so I think.
• 7:42
  Yeah, the gave us something didn't, you know, the could have
• 7:45
  just not giving us anything or could I had the green suited
• 7:48
  vardhan's from, from the Star, the try on, let's give them well
• 7:53
  and can you imagine if I do come with the original story for the
• 7:56
  end of this season? Which was Wembley Stadium full
• 7:59
  of cats like, well, yeah, that is so it's always intrigued me.
• 8:07
  What that story is actually about, because we've only had
• 8:09
  about had that description of the killer cats filling Wembley
• 8:13
  Stadium and I think they've got so far as to actually design the
• 8:17
  cats costumes. There is a costume design
• 8:20
  somewhere out there that I've seen a few times, so it got
• 8:23
  fairly far before they realized. Oh no.
• 8:27
  This is what we're expecting and quick Graham and Tony.
• 8:31
  We've got to come up with something that we can actually
• 8:33
  make and what you said fairies are there.
• 8:36
  About like, they have a go, they had to go, but they went for
• 8:40
  something massively. Ambitious, didn't they?
• 8:43
  Like, it's not like they said, okay, well we've got this amount
• 8:45
  of money in the kitty. So we're going to do black
• 8:47
  drapes and you know, a nice quiet, scary story.
• 8:51
  No, we're going to do the invasion of Gallifrey on
• 8:54
  intense, you know? This is a comedy store.
• 9:01
  You might we just got to really good dramatic scenes here.
• 9:05
  What part, you know, and all done in a very tense discussion
• 9:11
  with just a scene with research and the dock where boost?
• 9:15
  I was a transparent. Good old-fashioned.
• 9:19
  Do you think the contrast between Lila and Rodin is
• 9:23
  deliberate to show just how like what a strong character she is.
• 9:28
  I'm staying in here. Yes, thank you.
• 9:38
  But yeah it's Dynamic of book learning versus Instinct and
• 9:48
  learning by doing and I think this is one of the things that
• 9:52
  is cut. He comes back to as a theme all
• 9:55
  the way through his years at the So wins because he's had the
• 9:59
  experience and particularly the first Romana can come in and
• 10:04
  know everything, but she hasn't got the experience to actually
• 10:08
  deal with what what she's on. She might be incredibly clever,
• 10:12
  but fro that's a shriven zone or something.
• 10:15
  And she just goes to Pieces because she's not used to
• 10:17
  dealing with anything quite like that.
• 10:20
  And what I really love is, you've got a contrast between
• 10:22
  the two of them and it's Leela's kind of savviness with action
• 10:26
  that gets them back into The sistol and it's Rodin smart that
• 10:31
  helps him in like episode 5. So it's not like that both women
• 10:34
  contribute but in really different ways.
• 10:36
  Yeah, I think it's interesting that the do t-- you were over
• 10:42
  this. The three-wheeler still thrives
• 10:59
  in there, there's no sort of like and where they Leela's the
• 11:04
  fish-out-of-water anything. She raised the all the
• 11:07
  challenges, she's not sticking and was really our doors and
• 11:12
  later on. Gallifrey, have you ever listen
• 11:14
  to the audios greater of the? No, I haven't.
• 11:17
  He's amazing in that and you're right.
• 11:20
  Like she fits in on Gallifrey despite the fact she doesn't fit
• 11:23
  on Gallifrey at all. I liked about the coke of leader
• 11:28
  in is that she's probably the first company in that, we've
• 11:32
  seen to actually get a bit of an arc if you take where she is in
• 11:35
  the face of evil, you know, Was it the Saudis to the doctor?
• 11:42
  And if you look around this story, there's a definite
• 11:44
  progression in her character and what she needs.
• 11:47
  Learn to function. Develop, where come the end of
• 11:51
  the story? She is running around, you know,
• 11:53
  Gallifrey she is rallying the troops.
• 11:55
  He is dispatching sontarans all the replicate.
• 11:59
  What you wouldn't have had to start with the most wins in that
• 12:03
  respect. It is a good story part of
• 12:05
  Yvonne because it shows. Yes.
• 12:07
  Things from forces develop. The manner in the to the
• 12:11
  depositor is like even Louise David says herself that she, I
• 12:16
  would have rather have died than gone out this way.
• 12:20
  Wasn't it refreshing to get outside?
• 12:21
  Then I know we're in a quarries, but it's so nice to just get
• 12:24
  outside for a bit. Yeah, it certainly feels less
• 12:27
  claustrophobic. I think the scenes in the
• 12:29
  capital or very interior heavy and this is the first time we're
• 12:33
  actually we've got a different landscape to deal with and it be
• 12:39
  Yeah, it when we meet all the outsiders, it's their lifestyle
• 12:44
  is obviously very different to the other people on Gallifrey,
• 12:46
  which is a nice contrast and they can do that thing that they
• 12:49
  can't really do in set and that's type.
• 12:51
  All right back and have a vastness on the screen.
• 12:53
  Yes. So just it's other it feels very
• 12:56
  rare especially in episodes free.
• 12:57
  Normally the location work is like episode 1, isn't it?
• 13:01
  They do it all. That's yeah so it's mixing it up
• 13:05
  a bit. Then we'll go over as well.
• 13:12
  So it looks a bit different and a bit alien, just need that
• 13:16
  shot. The Citadel, don't way you could
• 13:17
  have it here and I just in the background it's guys and I have
• 13:24
  gone through what he says in the TV movie and he just stormed the
• 13:30
  sky above us was dancing with light purple green, brilliant
• 13:33
  yellows, the shoes I love God, baby.
• 13:43
  I love the way. She beats up, man.
• 13:44
  I shouldn't say that, but I do. We do is Chambers would like
• 13:49
  that. I'm completely different
• 14:16
  but this is so cliche. Science fiction.
• 14:19
  The Outsiders are all hairy and like they all got fire wearing.
• 14:25
  This is what Russell Davis has talked about.
• 14:27
  When he About planet zorg, you know, and the cliches of Science
• 14:30
  Fiction, he was never gonna do any any of this in series.
• 14:33
  One of the new series, was he like, So, headbands and long
• 14:40
  hair. There we go.
• 14:52
  They look a bit like Mentos, don't they?
• 15:03
  She would have been a good companion.
• 15:19
  Study, when you watch a bunch of those have a little bit, what's
• 15:22
  in a solvent heat? It's one of the other hydrogen.
• 15:29
  That's the prettiest woman. They say that age has no wonder.
• 15:33
  Who is that, man? I recognize that.
• 15:36
  That's Max Faulkner, I do remember him from the Android
• 15:40
  Invasion. He's the Android, Who falls off
• 15:42
  the cliff and start talking a lot in the jacket motion, which
• 15:46
  I'm doing now, but you can't see a marvelous.
• 15:49
  Very authentic, and he's got a, he's got a great, Douglas,
• 15:51
  symptom scores, as well as any, when he goes off to play.
• 15:54
  It's like Felicia such a disturb windings.
• 16:06
  Do you think, do you think that's like a good approach that
• 16:09
  if you can always realize the ambition of the script, then to
• 16:14
  just give great by pricing to decent actors and and have had
• 16:20
  to kind of have the worth of what's on screen there rather
• 16:25
  than plastic he set your actor Center to sell what's going on?
• 16:34
  I think I make make the drama out of something that might be
• 16:37
  slightly disappointing on screen.
• 16:39
  And again, you've got that be some some working overtime, I
• 16:43
  think on this story as well, to make it dramatic and exciting
• 16:46
  all the way through. I mean, I'm not always, I'm not
• 16:49
  going to suggest adults, who don't always realize this
• 16:52
  concept, but I think the musical score the sound effects and the
• 16:57
  active very often mask, what sometimes the budget can't
• 17:02
  provide, you know, Yeah. And I think the that is always a
• 17:07
  feeling that the BBC could never quite realized Doctor Who, how
• 17:11
  they would have loved to have realized Doctor Who, but I think
• 17:15
  they relied on the audience, particularly in the 60s and 70s
• 17:19
  to sort of use their imagination to see what they were trying to
• 17:26
  achieve all the way through. And I think there's quite a lot
• 17:28
  of that Doctor Who, as we know, grab your A nation and an early
• 17:34
  age, and you see all these things.
• 17:38
  You've totally believe what you're seeing.
• 17:40
  Even though sort of as a four or five year old, you might not be
• 17:45
  sort of able to distinguish what was good or bad, but you'd be
• 17:49
  able to see something. That's just your imagination
• 17:52
  sort of over the edge, something that you haven't seen before.
• 17:56
  And I think that as Doctor Who fans, I think if we ever lose
• 18:00
  the ability to see Doctor Who That way, I'm really excited by
• 18:05
  it that way, I've been so excited by the concept of the
• 18:08
  story and and get sort of involved with our well, it's a
• 18:13
  really poor production and this didn't work and this didn't work
• 18:17
  and the doctors left, the Tardis wearing a scarf, but we're comes
• 18:20
  back into the Tardis and this cops on the hat stand and that
• 18:23
  kind of nitpicker e. I've been sort of, almost,
• 18:28
  although it can be fun. Quite often tips into Just
• 18:34
  misery. Let's be honest.
• 18:37
  It's the sort of people that create those nitpicky books,
• 18:39
  isn't it? You know, I'm like, what
• 18:41
  pleasure to you get from this, you know, know something Jason
• 18:45
  touched on? Was it on his mysterious planet?
• 18:48
  We'll look, there's two types of book.
• 18:51
  Yeah. Two types of fan.
• 18:52
  Yeah. Yes.
• 18:54
  But do you think then if Doctor Who had like a massive say, say,
• 18:58
  it was being filmed in America at this point.
• 19:01
  Yeah. And it was all been shot on
• 19:02
  feeling. Had sophisticated effects work?
• 19:06
  Do you think it would have as much ambition and as much
• 19:09
  imagination? No, I think, you know, one of
• 19:17
  the things that's very things. I love about Doctor Who and one
• 19:19
  of the things is people that before the budget constraints
• 19:24
  that was made by the BBC and it pushed people to do things that,
• 19:30
  you know, if you had a big budget, yeah, you would have
• 19:32
  had, you know, team enough with the Middle East now that have
• 19:34
  CGI, one of the beauties of people always had to be
• 19:41
  inventive in stress of having to create something breeds
• 19:46
  creativity is dr. Hills always been a breeding
• 19:49
  ground of creativity. You know, people come into the
• 19:51
  show, spend a couple of years of script editor or producer, or,
• 19:56
  you know, direct if you see how often do other things, you know.
• 20:00
  So, it's not one of the one of the beautiful things about
• 20:03
  Doctor Who Is that you know, at least he's obviously look at
• 20:12
  some of the stories just like the learning ground for people
• 20:16
  at the start of their careers. A lot of the time you've got on
• 20:18
  too much bigger things so someone like Jim Acheson who did
• 20:22
  fantastic design costume design work like Jon Pertwee.
• 20:27
  Another Tom Baker. We went on to win Oscars for his
• 20:30
  costume. Designs in Hollywood's, we think
• 20:32
  he learned all his Meek's by not having any money and just using
• 20:37
  his imagination and thinking, where we can't do this, but if
• 20:40
  we use this, we could get, we can make something that will
• 20:45
  that will work. And sometimes it is just what
• 20:48
  will work and then you get someone like Jude Hudson who
• 20:52
  just comes in with her wild imagination.
• 20:55
  And her costuming is just now employing, an amazing and make
• 21:00
  the guard look like the Sydney Opera House.
• 21:03
  Actually, I think Janet Fielding says, in one of the commentaries
• 21:08
  one of her rare complementary moments for the series that, you
• 21:13
  know, you can give designer loads of money and they'll
• 21:17
  produce some, it was quite Bland, but give them a doctor
• 21:20
  who story to do with tiny budget and watch them create an entire
• 21:25
  world. Like it's it's a fertile ground
• 21:28
  and look at some of the Doctor Who stories that were created
• 21:32
  like in desperation City. Death was done in like a
• 21:35
  weekend, wasn't that? Well by the same writer David
• 21:38
  act, nuke? You coming back to the same
• 21:40
  Doctor Who at the end of this series and back in season 17.
• 21:45
  Someone please make the joke. I'm waiting for someone to make
• 21:48
  the joke about David Agnew and the guy who lives next door
• 21:51
  whose name is okay. Is it normal?
• 22:00
  That should be always guy. Leopold, of course.
• 22:04
  All Robin blind. Well, that's not my mom's going
• 22:09
  for, thank you. Thank you, sir.
• 22:13
  Oh crap there Joe, I'm so sorry. I think that was such a
• 22:17
  beautiful conversation. We just had there, so it doesn't
• 22:20
  matter. The my jokes suck your Design.
• 22:25
  This Gallifrey feels like a whole, it feels.
• 22:28
  Like a planet and a culture and I know Joe you keep pointing out
• 22:32
  the weird sculptures and artwork that they've got.
• 22:35
  But it feels like this is a world that's lived in unlike
• 22:40
  some other Gala phrase, it feels like feels like everyone's on
• 22:46
  the same page in terms of like costume design and says, never.
• 22:51
  Maybe there was just some very idiosyncratic designer that was
• 22:54
  creating all those plastic chairs and things, you know you
• 22:56
  never know. That's what Kevin is doing on
• 23:00
  his days off. Yeah, because he goes to the art
• 23:04
  gallery. Doesn't he later on?
• 23:06
  He has. Yeah, speaking of calendar with
• 23:09
  heard this story with hard sort of slide, hell - seems to be
• 23:16
  spying on. People seems to have designs on
• 23:19
  actually the presidency himself and now we've got kill another
• 23:22
  quisling. He is getting rid of all.
• 23:28
  People. He's made the lists of the years
• 23:30
  over there, dissidents right out, I need to go.
• 23:33
  He's very busy in always Excellency.
• 23:38
  And let me kill list and all these so quickly now and oil
• 23:44
  fact that he's God, yeah, he's gone.
• 23:46
  Full fascists now husband, again, getting rid of many bit
• 23:49
  anyone who disagrees with him. This is so alike.
• 24:27
  and, Add fought against each other.
• 24:30
  You talk about oily. What about or Inquisitor dark,
• 24:33
  or in Gallifreyan? That's true.
• 24:36
  So like later on, he's at is all really assist me when he's got
• 24:39
  the muscle behind here, he's got the sontarans around and he's
• 24:42
  just like, oh God, he's directly wonderful.
• 24:46
  But he's Allegiance, you just goes.
• 24:49
  Wait, it's not the final anymore.
• 24:50
  It's the potatoes. Yeah.
• 25:04
  Yeah. That's all right.
• 25:08
  I love him. Remember the Cliffhanger to this
• 25:15
  episode. It's coming up.
• 25:19
  I think you're looking for off, always sit and read going to
• 25:22
  shoot the doctor in about Nina's costume.
• 25:48
  Make sure to do that. Hello friends, like a flowing,
• 25:52
  pirate shirt, don't they? Yeah, whatever.
• 25:54
  That is. That's it.
• 25:58
  Exactly. Oh, bless him.
• 25:59
  He's trying to put that Bloody prop on.
• 26:01
  Caddos it. Oh yeah.
• 26:03
  There we go. Yes.
• 26:08
  I'm glad they didn't stick with this Lighting in the Tardis.
• 26:11
  I find it a bit weird. I quite like the Shadows are
• 26:17
  quite like it being a bit more Moody than usual and my job when
• 26:20
  you're not, when it's really bright.
• 26:22
  So I just wish. Yeah.
• 26:23
  So you're never happy. No.
• 26:24
  No, sorry. To pick up a lackluster.
• 26:29
  Yeah, but I know that one. Isn't it.
• 26:32
  When you got five in one story once about one's got a fall
• 26:36
  down, hasn't it? Not too bad.
• 26:38
  I mean, I'm just going to close up in space.
• 26:42
  There was Tom realizes he forgot to tell 100 what the band was.
• 26:46
  Whoops, no we don't think so, I'm really selling.
• 26:48
  Got it goat. And we're back at, like, you
• 26:52
  know, have this Cliffhanger come at the end of episode 2 where he
• 26:55
  was still behaving villainous. We're gonna well, why do we give
• 26:57
  a shit? But now he's been very doctor
• 27:00
  again. So, Yeah, I know you're worried
• 27:03
  that the doctors in danger. He's already who the production
• 27:06
  unit manager was there John nathan-turner.
• 27:11
  Yeah, he's holding the keys to the budget and getting this show
• 27:15
  on the on-screen. So I bet he was there behind the
• 27:18
  scenes like making allies and things.
• 27:20
  Like I will be the producer of this show.
• 27:22
  He's doing his calendar, making a list right is that this guy's
• 27:26
  not coming back, easy. Bring me a cup of tea.