Latest / The Drama Drop / Will MomTok ACTUALLY Survive?!: Secret Lives of Mormon Wives Season 5 Breakdown with Tara Miller
Transcript
- The Drama Drop: What's up guys? Welcome back to the drama drop. Today I'm joined by my friend Tara Miller and we are discussing what in the actual is happening over in Mom Talk because apparently five episodes was all it took for this entire friend group to completely implode. And somehow the drama got even worse after the cameras stopped rolling. So obviously, Tara and I have thoughts. Mom Talk is in shambles and we're getting into all of it. So buckle up because the drama drops now. Hey, Tara. Welcome back to the Drama Drop. I'm so excited to have you on to talk all things, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives season five. For those listening and don't know, I had Tara on way back in the beginning of the Drama Drop podcast. And we had full intention on talking about The Bachelorette with Taylor Frankie Paul and Seasons to come of Secret Lives of Mormon Wise, but all of that happened with Taylor Frankie Paul and Dakota. The scandal broke and it totally changed the trajectory of our podcast episode. But I felt, you know, I had to have you on once this season finally came out and talk about all the things that were happening when it all went down. But We have a lot to go over and obviously we will, but I just need to check in with you. How are you doing? How has life been? There's been so much going on, especially with secret lives of Mormon wives. Tara Miller: Gosh, it's been crazy. I mean, life is good. I think it's been six months since we talked. And I have to give you flowers where flowers are due. Girl, you are crushing the podcast game. I love The Drama Drop: Thank you. Tara Miller: watching you soar. I knew you would. I was like, this girl is gonna do incredible. Your studio, you've updated it. Like you've done so much do. The Drama Drop: Thank you. Thank you. Well, I also have to give you flowers because honestly, you really were the one to kind of help me make that next step, even if you know it or not, because you asked me to go on your podcast. And that was kind of when I was like, all right, maybe like we need to just like take it a step further. So you really helped me grow in the space. So I really, I really appreciate it. Yeah. Tara Miller: Yeah, absolutely. You guys are crushing it. I love everything you do. I may not watch The Drama Drop: Thank you. Tara Miller: all the reality TV shows so I don't always know like the guests you have on, but I'm like, you go girl. The Drama Drop: No, thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate yeah, I know. There's so many reality shows. It's hard to just it's really hard to keep up. Tara Miller: It's hard to keep up. And like why I mean, first of all, why would we keep up with any other ones if all the internal explosion is going on with with Secret Lives? I'm like, I might have to find a couple other shows to watch because don't know how much longer this one's gonna be around. The Drama Drop: I know, yeah. So let's get right into it. I mean, so first, what was just your overall thoughts on season five? Like take out what we know that happened due to stopping filming. Like, what was your thoughts on it? Tara Miller: Goodness, season five felt like a punch to the gut. Like it wasn't easy to watch. It wasn't The Drama Drop: No. Tara Miller: necessarily enjoyable. Obviously, there were things that we wanted to follow see like follow through on from season four. And I feel like we just got more than drama, right? Like The Drama Drop: Right. Tara Miller: drama is one thing, and I think that makes a lot of reality TV successful. But I feel like this felt different. Did it feel different for you? The Drama Drop: A hundred percent. And and like you said, it's like we love drama. I love drama. I love feeling nosy on people's situations. Like I wanna know it all. I don't want to be a part of it, but I want to know absolutely everything. But something about this was just I I don't even know how to put it into words. I mean, obviously very dark. It felt very different. And Tara Miller: Yes, it did. The Drama Drop: I d and, you know, I try to think about it too. I'm like, I wonder if I would. feel the same if I didn't know everything that happened that transpired. Because, Tara Miller: Hmm. Yeah. The Drama Drop: you know, that because when you're looking at it, then you're really just looking at it in the perspective of Taylor can't get over Dakota, you know, and she's just Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: really spiraling over him. You're not getting the you have all the other end of it. so I wonder if I would think the same had I not, you know, if the world didn't know everything else that was going on. Tara Miller: I know. And it's wild because I feel like after we watched last season's reunion, I was like, so much of this is so far in the past. And now with social media, I feel like that's changed reality TV where we used to have to wait week after week for shows to be released. And now it's like we see the modern day TikTok battles or Instagram battles The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: or comments being left, follows and unfollows, and who is dating or married to who? And then Season five gets released and it's like it feels archaic. So much has happened since season five has been released. We're like, okay, we're watching this, but also it's only five episodes, which is not a full season. And then I thought a lot of it was filler. Like they kept showing a countdown to when production was gonna be paused. I'm like, we only have five episodes, people. You need to put in as much footage as you can. I don't need a countdown. I I'm The Drama Drop: Yeah Tara Miller: some of the social media clips were like, yeah, I remember seeing that, but I'm like, There were too many for five episodes. We could have had more girls. And I understand that Taylor is a big storyline, but we do have a lot of other cast members that I feel like had things going on in their lives that could have had more screen time as well. The Drama Drop: Sure. Definitely. Yeah, I know. I fully agree that it's like Taylor's situation is just so chaotic and she doesn't hold back. So I Tara Miller: Mm-hmm. The Drama Drop: feel producers really love that and gravitate to that. And it's like, okay, great. Like there are these other situations. But when you put it on a scale of what's more interesting, I don't know if entertaining is the right word, but just what's more like. Whoa, a wow factor, that's that's that. And Tara Miller: Mm-hmm. Wow factor. Yeah. The Drama Drop: she's gonna give you that time and time again because she does not hold back. But yeah, it really drowns out the other storylines for sure. Like definitely could have expanded more Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: on the other girls. But I almost wonder too, I think because people do know what happened and they know they had to stop filming, that Tara Miller: Mm. The Drama Drop: if almost in a similar situation have had they dropped the Bachelorette season. Like, okay, you're kind of wasting our time because we know the outcome. Where it's like you're just kind of now dragging a 10 episode series and we're talking about I don't even know anymore, because everybody just knows what was going on with Taylor. And honestly, too, I almost wonder if it made it feel more dramatic with being like, We had to stop. So Tara Miller: Mm-hmm. for sure. The Drama Drop: whatever comes next, if there is anything at this point, will be, you know, appealing to the people. I don't know. Tara Miller: I know it's hard though, because I think at the end of the day, people, the community of Secret Lives and Mormon Wives is a bunch of women like you and I. And I think at the end of the day, yes, we like drama, but we want to see these women succeed in life. We want to see these women thrive and have a good life. And when you're watching The Drama Drop: Absolutely. Tara Miller: women that you don't know, but you're like rooting for, and you feel like they just keep going. Down, down, down, down, down. It gets to a point where it's like, yes, drama is entertaining, but I also wish these women well. And I want them The Drama Drop: For sure. Tara Miller: to have mental health. And when you feel like mental health is taking a backseat to views or The Drama Drop: Mm-hmm. Tara Miller: publicity, I don't know the words I'm looking for, but I feel like that Stephanie with the Deets girl said it so well when she said that she feels like. Not all, but most producers live for the drama and that those were the ones checking in on Taylor. She's like, you know, the the producers and the production were the ones always checking in on me. It's like, yes, but they might have also had an ulterior motive because they do benefit from you being filmed. Whereas the friends, the rest of the girls, just genuinely want her happy and peaceful. And peaceful doesn't always make for great TV. So I think there's like an unspoken Clash there that I don't have the solution for, but at the end of the day, like I do want to see these girls happy. And I think there was just a lot of pain in season five that was real and raw. And like that's amazing that those girls are sharing that. But it also makes me feel so sad for them. So I think it's hard to The Drama Drop: I know. Tara Miller: watch something and feel like, I feel bad about this. Like I see the pain. The Drama Drop: Yeah. Yeah. No, I completely agree. And it's like it's crazy because it's like, you know, they all started on TikTok and then they got this amazing opportunity. Like this show comes out and you know, from where it is then to where it is now, yeah, it's started off as drama and now it's just like dark. And, you know, they just were becoming so successful. Like the show was crazy. It was all the buzz. And Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: I think that it speaks volumes that The girls are willing to step away from it if it means getting, you know, Taylor Frankie Paul help, if it for everybody's mental health, you know, the fact that they're willing to step away, I feel like says a lot. Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: because, you know, once you find your bread and butter, it's like you could probably push through anything. And to your point, like with the producers, it's like, yeah, they're probably checking in on her, but it's like checking in to make sure you can keep giving us, you know, like giving us content so we can keep. pushing out the show because and that's where I think too, where they probably failed with not expanding on other girls' storylines. Tara Miller: Mm. The Drama Drop: If Taylor Frankie Paul isn't there giving everything, you know, she's an open book, why are people gonna want to tune in? You know, it's like the main person who appeared to be the main person that has the most chaos and is willing to tell us all. And she's not there. And then we haven't really developed more storylines for these other girls. Why are people gonna want to keep checking in? You know, it's kind of it's crazy. It is a mess. And I do, yeah, I wish and and you know, like they were, yeah, and they were like friends before all this too. So it's like, it's not like it Tara Miller: Yeah I know. The Drama Drop: was just a random bunch of people that they curated and put in a situation, you know, like there was true friendships before all of this, and it's just it's really sad to see. But I Tara Miller: Yeah, so sad. The Drama Drop: yeah, I don't know. I don't know where the show will go for me. Tara Miller: And like thinking about that too, I if if my options are watch like basically a season five feeling again in season six with a very unhealthy Taylor Frankie Paul. And I think also kind of an unhealthy Jen. Because if we're being honest, she has been back to back to back postpartum. And I know some ladies have a great postpartum journey, but my postpartum journey, I had never had hormones like that. And such low mental lows. And I feel like she's struggling as well, maybe not to the same depths as Taylor, but we did see them kind of bond over their mental states. And so I'm like, if my options are see another like sad feeling season with everyone in it, or see a season of like a little happiness, a little drama, and half the girls or 75% of the girls, I would honestly choose that because yes, while Taylor did start and found mom talk. I do like a lot of the other girls and I enjoy watching the other girls and I enjoy rooting. Like, I think that's why we watch TV, is because we want something to root for. We're girls, so The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: we're not like rooting for guys moving balls up and down a field. We're we're rooting for girls living their lives, right? And we want to root for that. And when when The Drama Drop: Right. Yes. Tara Miller: we're like watching, like, my gosh, that's not rooting, you know, that we're like, like we're it shifted from Is mom talk going to survive? To like, are these people actually okay? Like, I went from interested to concerned. The Drama Drop: Right. Yes. Yes. Tara Miller: And that's a weird shift to be in as a viewer and like where this is technically entertainment and it's getting to the point where it's like not feel good entertainment. It's actually like feel weird entertainment. And like I I kind of guess. The Drama Drop: Yeah, it's almost like you feel dirty watching it. I'm like, mm-hmm and like I said, I am just I'm so nosy as the next person. But just watching this spiral happen right in front of your eyes. Ugh, I don't know. It's it's hard. It really, it really is hard. And I mean, you know, so like let's go back to when we start the season, okay? She's fresh. Off the plane, coming back from just filming The Bachelorette, she leaves engaged. And the first thing she does is go and hook up with Dakota. And I was just so confused because, first of all, I didn't think that the Bachelorette was necessarily the answer for her trying to Tara Miller: Agreed. The Drama Drop: get over Dakota. however, I'm pretty sure probably her friends and maybe herself was like, at least, you know, you'll be in an environment where Okay, you can see that there are other guys out there. There are other potential suitors that will treat you well, or what like there's more than just to code it. Like there's other people that exist. Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: great, she gave herself that opportunity, but to immediately put yourself right back into the line of fire that got you in such a dark place. I just I don't, I truly I don't understand it. And then you after that, then you want to say, Well, actually, I'm in love with Ben. And I'm like, wait, where I went through Tara Miller: Yes. Yes. The Drama Drop: whiplash when I heard that. Tara Miller: Truly. And it was now that we have retrospect, I've changed my mind on the Bachelorette scenario. Cause at first I was like, brilliant. I haven't watched The Bachelorette in probably near a decade. But when I heard she was getting mad, I was like, I'm so excited to watch The Bachelorette again. But the reason why I quit watching The Bachelorette all those years ago is because I felt like they were no longer there for love. They were there for fame or just TV in general, which is a different thing than seeking love. So I was like, this is great. Like Taylor could possibly find love. But as I'm looking in retrospect, I'm like, was she in the right headspace? Did she mentally prepare? Was her life in a good spot? Like all these things to find love? And the answer keeps being no. So then I'm asking myself, okay, the producers of The Bachelorette. Are smart. They've been in this business a long time. They've cast a lot of leads, bachelor and bachelorette. And I'm sh and I know they do some sort of psych eval and they can see where a person is at. And I'm like, they had to have known she wasn't like truly mentally ready to find love. So then that makes me sad because again, it's just another production company using her for clicks and not actually seeking her best interest. The Drama Drop: I know. Yeah. I she definitely was not put in the right head or she was not in the right headspace to put herself in that position. I mean, we even see at the end of season four when, you know, they're trying they're like begging for her to go to the airport. It's like that alone just shows that she doesn't want anything to do with it. And I just wonder too, because in my head, I'm like, I wonder if just her family and friends were just so desperate to get her out of the situation. It's like, Okay, we know she's probably not necessarily ready for the Bachelorette. She's not in that heads, but maybe just like removing herself, maybe she can somehow get there. You know, it's like you're running out of ideas on what to do. And you know, the unfortunate situation is that she obviously has strong ties to Dakota, you know, with having their child together. So it's like Tara Miller: Ever. Yeah. The Drama Drop: that sucks. You know, it's like, yes, what a blessing this child is, but Now, this person like that you guys just do not mesh, and it's just the most toxic situation of all time. It's like you can't even, even if there is a third party involved, whatever, Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: he's still in, you know, just the vicinity in terms of yeah, you have ties. You can never Tara Miller: They're tied. Yeah. The Drama Drop: fully get rid of this man. Tara Miller: No. The Drama Drop: And yeah, I don't know. I but I do agree. I think production producers. Whoever people of the show will be like, ooh, like she will get people to view. Cause I've never watched The Bachelor, Bachelorette. So that was definitely gonna tune me in. I know, crazy, right? So that was definitely gonna tune me in. Tara Miller: Wow, yeah. The Drama Drop: So it's like they know they get hurt. And then I just think maybe her friends and family are like, we just literally don't even know what else to do. So Tara Miller: I know. The Drama Drop: maybe just get her with out of sight, out of mind, tunnel vision. She'll have all these other guys that, but it that didn't matter as soon as she got off the plane. Tara Miller: I know. I The Drama Drop: Immediately beelined. Tara Miller: know. And to your point about like friends and family being like, let's just like do anything to help her get rid of Dakota or like stop thinking about Dakota, I feel like Miranda was kind of a low-key queen of this season. And she had my personal favorite line of the season. I wrote it down because I didn't want to misquote the queen. The Drama Drop: Ooh, yeah, let's hear it. Tara Miller: And she says, Why are we using another human with feelings as an escape from another human? The Drama Drop: Mm. Tara Miller: And I'm like, that is wisdom beyond anyone's years. Like, that is true therapy, The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: true healing shown. And I'm just The Drama Drop: Very true. Tara Miller: like, ugh, like with the bachelor situation, with the Ben situation, which apparently The Drama Drop: Mm-hmm. Tara Miller: he may have blocked her because some tags that he was that she tagged him now aren't tagged. I don't know. And they don't follow each other. But I'm like, besides the point, Miranda was speaking such wisdom with that quote. And it is true. I think Taylor. Obviously I don't know her, but I do feel like she has so much hurt and pain inside of her. And that's why she goes from guy to guide to guy, because they want something different from her than her girlfriends want from her. And the girlfriends are going to give that tough love because they really do want the best for her. And guys, I think just want to be with her. And that's not saying she doesn't want some part of her doesn't want to be with them too. I think she has good intentions. I think she's just in so much pain. She's trying to feel some sense of peace or love or acceptance. And I I think it's one of those things that is just gonna take time and by yourself and a lot of therapy. And if, like you said, if she can't get away from Dakota or Chase, which I have so many other thoughts on, like I don't even want to waste my breath talking The Drama Drop: Gosh. Yeah. Tara Miller: about him. But It is so needed. So that's why I'm like, if she's really doing a social media cleanse right now, I think that's the best choice for herself. Like that's the first step I think in putting herself first is actually taking a break from social media and then hopefully taking a break from the men. What do you think? The Drama Drop: Absolutely. Yeah. Because I mean, you know, I feel like just like growing up, whatever, you know, you hear like, best way to get over somebody, yada, yada, yada, like to distract yourself, whatever. But there's definitely a huge difference when you do have obviously a lot of pain. And, you know, you it's not like you're just having fun where you're just like, I'm just going on a bunch of dates with a bunch of people. It's like You are just consistently finding yourself in these situations. And then it all goes back to Dakota. So whether you were finding a relationship with somebody else or entertaining somebody else, Dakota's still in the back of your mind. More so to in my thoughts is to get back at him, whether that's obvious to her or not. and I mean, think about it too. It's like, I don't know, I don't. And I try to put myself in her shoes or perspective of just like feeling really hurt, but I tr like I can't get my headspace to get into where you're attracted to the chaos. Like I would think at a certain point in your life, like that just gets so much anxiety. Sure, maybe there's adrenaline or like maybe it's addicting. I know, I think scientifically that there is some sort of dopamine situation that does happen with that. but I just would think after a while it would get super exhausting. And then I mean, when you think about it, out of the three people, the contenders for The Bachelorette, she picked the one that everybody was like, No, don't pick him. And it's like, why are we doing that? Why are we doing that? And then of course, you know, just fast forwarding to, you know, she says she's in love with Ben. And this guy genuinely, you know, I wasn't sure how I felt about him on season four when he made his little appearance. Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: And it was right before she was gonna go to the bachelorette. I'm like, why are we like you don't want to do anything with the show? Why are Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: we peeking on here? But I think I kind of got a different perspective of him on you know, the show. Tara Miller: Season five. The Drama Drop: He just seemed from just from what I was able to see, that he was actually interested in her and like having a real relationship and all that. And he was like moving forward to that. And she was the one pulling back. She's like, like he treats me well. Like I don't know if I'm ready. I'm you know, yada yada yada. It's like Tara Miller: Yeah, it's hard. I I l listen to a lot of psychology podcasts and I've read some, you know, psychology books. My my mom had a very difficult upbringing. and I've kind of seen and been exposed to different levels of mental health my whole life, and so I've kind of just been interested in the topic and I've struggled with my own mental health. I mean, I'm not hiding that either. And one thing that I I can't remember if I heard it on a podcast or read it in a book, but I think it might lend itself to Taylor's situation is, and I don't know what her childhood was like. Obviously, we know her father was out of the picture and her mom was raising her alone for a while before her stepfather came in. But I read or heard on a podcast somewhere that if you grow up in kind of a state of chaos. That is just going to raise your cortisol levels. So then that becomes your brain's baseline. So The Drama Drop: gosh. Tara Miller: if you are in a relationship that is toxic and has a lot of this back and forth, that is a baseline that your brain and body feel comfortable with because it's that amount of cortisol. Where if you're with a normal, healthy, trustworthy, responsible human, you don't get those cortisol spikes. So The Drama Drop: Mm. Tara Miller: your brain's like, this is boring. The Drama Drop: my gosh. Yeah. Tara Miller: And so I think that might be a part of where her brain is still like looping and interested. I don't know why she's interested in him. He keeps cheating on her, whether they're together or not. He keeps hurting her in that way. But The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: I'm wondering if it's like Ben or maybe some of those like safer, approved bachelor men that her family The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: and friends liked, if she just doesn't find interest because she doesn't have that same thrill, that same rush, that same The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: Cortisol or dopamine or whatever it is. I'm not a scientist. I'm just The Drama Drop: Ha ha Tara Miller: trying to to figure it out too, you know? The Drama Drop: Yeah, I know. I feel like it's just it's very tough and it's not so black and white and I'm not, you know, sitting here being like, it's just super easy. Just like don't do that. But Tara Miller: Yeah, yeah. The Drama Drop: it's just, it's it's just, you know, I mean, I've had a crazy relationship before that was just extremely toxic, very unhealthy, all that. Tara Miller: Same. The Drama Drop: and then so it's just like, you know, I just relate it to myself and thinking once I got out of that, finally. I was like, okay, perfect. I know what I don't want. So I looked for literally Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: everything opposite. You know, so it's just, it's just interesting how people's brains work and whatever they adapt to, it's either like you learn from it and go out of it, or it's Tara Miller: Mm. The Drama Drop: just you yeah, you just yeah, you get Tara Miller: Cycle that repeats itself. The Drama Drop: into a cycle. So I don't know. I don't know. I do I don't know what she's I know she's obviously exited social media. Her new bio says, you know, my assistant manager will be handling my account. Tara Miller: Yeah, which isn't her assistant her aunt? Didn't we learn that last season? The Drama Drop: my gosh, I think you're right. Tara Miller: Cause I that was something new. I knew her sister nanny'd her children 'cause she had shared that before. But during season four when she was like supposed to go to the airport and she like wasn't showing up or something, The Drama Drop: Wait, I think you're right. Tara Miller: th she the girls were like, well her aunt, who's her assistant, like has the house keys or like The Drama Drop: my gosh. Tara Miller: said she's still at her home or something like that. So I'm like, Wait, is her aunt handling her account for real? For real? For real. I'm like, is The Drama Drop: Interesting. I actually now I think you're correct, but I didn't even that did not rack the brain whenever I first read it. I was like, so and I'll be curious to see how long this actually lasts. Like I don't know, like yeah, what the exit plan is. Like I don't know if she's just turning off everything and she's just figuring out on her own or if she is going somewhere, seeing somebody. I am hoping too. Tara Miller: That's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping she's in a facility that will truly help her. That doesn't let producers The Drama Drop: Yeah, yes. Tara Miller: in. The Drama Drop: No, seriously, I know. Because not only that, like I just really hope that she's able to figure out how to mend these relationships with her friends. I'm curio like what are your th what? well, yes, yes, absolutely. Tara Miller: And and her children. And for her children, because I'm sure they're like at ages, like not that I want to make this podcast about talking about children, and obviously I do not know the family dynamic, but like my my son is six and he knows and sees and absorbs way more than I realize. And I just keep thinking like kids know when their mom is sad, kids know when their mom is hurting, and like The Drama Drop: Mm. Yep. Tara Miller: every child wants to have a happy and healthy mom. So I just hope so much for herself and her. her immediate family of her and her children that she can heal herself and then like mend those relationships. Cause hearing her talk about when when her and Jen were talking in the l bubble dome at ice skating about The Drama Drop: Mm-hmm. Tara Miller: how when she's just like spir staring off into space and she's just dissociating and her daughter is looking at her like, Mom, where are you? And she starts crying and she's saying like I don't even know where I am like that was so heartbreaking. The Drama Drop: Ugh, I know, I know, I know. I yeah, no, absolutely yes for her children. Cause you're so right. I mean, kids, they can pick up on things way more than you would even imagine. they can feel it. And so yes, that absolutely, first and foremost. 'cause it's gosh, it is it really is. Tara Miller: I know. Should we ch The Drama Drop: Sad and like obviously I'm sure you've seen, which I don't really know too much information on it, but the TMZ article that dropped I mean, there's multiple articles, I guess. I don't know. Did Tara Miller: Which one? The Drama Drop: you see where she's failed multiple drug tests? Yes. And Tara Miller: Yes, yes. The Drama Drop: that I was like I was hoping that there was gonna be something that came out shortly after being like, oops, like we got it wrong. Sorry, never mind. Or like something Tara Miller: Yeah. Yeah. The Drama Drop: because that's when she made her exit. So Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: I you know, and I don't know if this is what all the girls were alluding to when they were like, You guys just don't even know and it just makes Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: me really sad. And like I, you know, obviously addiction is a huge crazy thing that it's not just very simple, but I just felt like she was doing really well. She was getting more custody of her kids, like more visitation Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: time, like things were being lifted. So to hear that, I was like, ugh, yeah. Tara Miller: Heartbreaking. That and I feel like when she was on social media, she was either sharing stuff she's learning at therapy, scripture or time with her kids. I was like, wow, she's on a great track. And then I think the article before the drug article was like her therapist went to court saying, like, she hasn't been showing up for therapy sessions because she says she's too busy with work. I'm like, wait, what? Because The message I was getting from her stories and stuff was like she's prioritizing therapy. She's prioritizing h healing. And then to hearing like her therapist in court saying, I haven't seen Taylor, like she hasn't been showing up, I'm like, what? That's such a disconnect. The Drama Drop: Yeah, I know. I know. I know. And yeah, it's almost like I wonder too. It's like if you get to a certain place where you think you're doing really well on your own. So it's like I don't need anybody else, but then that's when things can slowly start trickling back into repeated patterns. And then you just what we say, the cycle, then it just kind of keeps Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: going back and forth. So I don't know. I don't th I can't recall a time that she's actually done aside from I mean she I don't even think she announced it, but aside from when the first issue dropped of, you know, with her in Dakota and the video and everything, I don't think she ex or announced her exit. But I just hope that this is where it's like she's taking the time like getting professional help, not just doing it on her own, not just doing a social media cleanse. Like it there needs to be some serious intervention. 'cause it's just and and what makes me sick too is I mean, kids obviously need their mom, but it's like I don't necessarily feel confident that Evers is spending more time with Dakota. Tara Miller: I I know. I The Drama Drop: You know, like it would be one situation where it's like, okay, like this guy's a real stand-up guy, like we know really good situation there, like at least there's that. But Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: it's not like it doesn't even make the situation any better. Tara Miller: I know. If I like start thinking about Ever's life, I feel like since the moment he's been born, the poor child has lived in like a world of turmoil and The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: sadness and pain. And like I can't even think about it for too long because it makes me so sad, honestly. Like I The Drama Drop: I know. Tara Miller: I hope for her sake and the sake of her kids that she can heal herself and heal like the generational trauma because that is a cycle that lasts and it takes so much work. To break the cycle of gem generational trauma and like what our kids have already seen and experienced and lived through and felt is one thing, but sh it is in her power to, like you said, go to a center, seek professional help, take herself off social media, which she has. Like that is great. Steps in the right direction. And if she can heal herself and heal the generational trauma, those kids are gonna have a much better future ahead of them with a happy mom, not a famous mom or a rich mom or any of those other things, but like a happy, healthy, healed, whole. Mom, and I think that's what a lot of it comes down to is I think maybe like her father wound is why she seeks so much attention and validation from men. And I think if she can get to that point where she loves herself and feels whole herself and doesn't need those outside men attention or approval or whatever she's seeking from them. That's when I think she'll really be able to like stand her ground on her own two feet and r truly know her own worth. I think she knows her worth, The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: but I think she questions it at times or something. Otherwise, I don't The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: know why she would continue this. But it there's a lot of other topics in season five. Obviously, Taylor The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: was the main thing, but should we touch on a couple of the other girls while we're together? Cause I could just cry. Okay. The Drama Drop: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Tara Miller: and okay, if we're going like from sad, I don't think we should go like pit to peak, let's like slowly step up the ladder. I would say one slight step up the ladder is Layla. I feel like she had an interesting story this season and it absolutely broke my heart seeing her have open up, have an open, honest, vulnerable feeling with Mason, telling her, telling Mason her feelings and how she feels and hit for him to immediately get defense in and say get defensive and act like he was I don't spend enough. I guess I need to spend more money on coffee. It's like that is not where the girl was coming from. She was expressing her own feelings of worth and how she feels like she she recognizes her love language is gift giving, but she doesn't feel like she's deserving of love. She feels like she has to gift give to keep people around her. Like that's what she was trying to communicate to him. And he did not understand her feelings. The Drama Drop: No, no. And it was really frustrating and sad to watch because it's like she's opening up to you, having this, you know, really heart to heart, whatever, being very vulnerable. And then moments after you break up with her. So to me, I'm like, okay, so were you ever truly into her, loved her, wanting to be with her as who Layla is, or was it Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: just a meal ticket? To be on the show more, get more, you know, publicity, like more exposure. because she's like one of the only ones that's not married. So yeah, I just thought that that was crazy. I was like, okay, wait, she brings up an issue that she's having, just being open and honest. Yeah. And Tara Miller: Yeah. Yeah. One tough conversation. I'm sh people have survived worse. The Drama Drop: right. And we flip to breaking up. Like that's just, yeah. Tara Miller: Literally. So that's so sad. She does not deserve that. Also, I gotta give her her flowers because she was looking like a snack in her little pink outfit. She looked so good. I'm like, look at this beauty The Drama Drop: I know. Tara Miller: queen pouring her heart out to him. He does not hear her. He gets defensive and thinks he needs to buy more. I'm like, that is not what this conversation is about, sir. The Drama Drop: That yeah, that was such a weird response. I was like, Okay, let's grow up. That's not what Tara Miller: I know, and The Drama Drop: she's saying. Tara Miller: I know, and she's like, I understand communication is hard for you, but hot take, it is 2026. I'm tired of men saying, like, I'm not a good communicator. We have the internet, we have books, we have chat GPT, we have podcasts. You can learn any skill in the world in 2026. Any person, I don't care if you're male or female, you can learn to be a better communicator. And if if The Drama Drop: Absolutely. Tara Miller: you don't, that's your personal choice and you're choosing to be a bad communicator. Like, I will go off on that. The Drama Drop: Yeah, yeah, you are putting in effort to be a bad communicator. Tara Miller: Yes. And if you love and care someone, you want to hear their feelings. And it's not like I understand the initial response to want to be defensive, but when you hear and acknowledge someone's feelings and like work towards repair, that just grows deeper emotional intimacy. And he just chose to run away from that. So it's sad. The Drama Drop: Yeah. Yeah. No, I thought it was very bizarre. Like the response to what she was saying. I feel like all he heard was, you want me to pay for more and you're not gonna be buying me nearly as much. Like that's what w got to him. That was went Tara Miller: Yeah, yes. Yes. The Drama Drop: through the noggin. Tara Miller: He heard the shallowness, not the depth of her like vulnerability. So sad. The Drama Drop: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. But I mean, honestly, I'm glad she had that conversation with him. She was able to figure it out that much quicker that he is not worth her time and she can stop wasting her dollars and her energy on him because what? Like, Tara Miller: She deserves better. She deserves better. The Drama Drop: a hundred percent. So that yeah, no, I I really felt for her for that. And Ugh, it just made me so sad to see her so sad. And Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: I just watching these women when they cry, like you could just tell because it's like from their gut too, you know, it's not Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: like just tears welling up or whatever. It's like, you know, like Tara Miller: Mm. The Drama Drop: the part where you feel like you can't breathe or you wanna like throw up. It's like Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: that's how they're crying on this show. And it's just like, it just makes me so sick. but I did love that Mikayla and Mayci like they were about to go. get what was it, the Cartier watch bracelet ring thing? Yeah. I was like, Tara Miller: The ring? Yes. Yeah. The Drama Drop: I absolutely love like they're like, no, we're gonna go get that back on your behalf. Tara Miller: I love that MM Incorporated came back and they like did the whole loft inspection to find Ben. The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: Like as soon as MM Incorporated the who okay, as as The Drama Drop: my gosh, I was crazy. Tara Miller: mad as we are at production, whoever's writing their little like bio captions The Drama Drop: Yes. Tara Miller: should get a raise because they were on point, especially with Jessi and the like soon-to-be makeout partners, soon to be friends with benefits. I was rolling. That's good. That was good. The Drama Drop: my gosh, I was cracking up. I was like, yes, like that's that is what we need. Like we need those things to bring us some humors to laugh, to remember that there is some sort of light in this show. Tara Miller: yes, exactly. what were your thoughts on A Jen going to New York City without even telling Whitney? And then B, the conversation that Jen and Whitney had outside of like brunch or wherever they were at. The Drama Drop: Yeah. Okay. So one, I love Whitney. I Tara Miller: Same. The Drama Drop: just think she holds herself really well. Tara Miller: Her character arc should be studied. The Drama Drop: Yes, yes. I really appreciate the fact that you know how you said it's like we want all these women to do well. And that doesn't mean that every single one of them has to go on and do a million things and go on Broadway and Hallmark movies and like these crazy adventures. But I think just seeing like her and you know, her also being open and honest, it's like I want to do more. I know that this is going to help me get there. So yeah, of course I'm coming back to the show. So I can audition for Dancing with the Stars. And like obviously more has come from that. And the way that she Tara Miller: Love her honesty. The Drama Drop: speaks, I don't know, the way that she holds herself, it just seems very classy. And you know, in one may Tara Miller: Yeah, she's evolved. The Drama Drop: are yes, yes. And one may argue that she's super cold or whatever, but I don't Tara Miller: Mm. The Drama Drop: necessarily think that it's cold. I mean, I think it's more Tara Miller: I think it's composed. The Drama Drop: of just a matter of fact, you know? Tara Miller: Yes, she's confident in who she is. And This is another hot take I will say. I think Whitney is doing the best because she has the most supportive partner. The end. And The Drama Drop: Yes, yes. Tara Miller: I I want Conner Levitt to write a book, "How to Be a Husband." And I swear it will sell out and all these women will buy it. Jen might buy it and give it to Zac I mean, it would be so good. The Drama Drop: Yes. No, seriously. Like he anything that she wants to do, any opportunity that she wants to do, he is like, I'm all in. I'm for it. Let's do it. Let's go. Let's pack up. Tara Miller: Yeah. And genuinely. Yeah. He says it from j a genuine place of love and excitement, The Drama Drop: Mm-hmm. Tara Miller: not out of duty and service. And I better say, Yes, honey, this is great. And I look like I'm happy to appease you. Like he's so genuine and honest. The Drama Drop: Yes. Tara Miller: And like he truly is her biggest fan. And I'm like, this is the sweetest. Which also so sad that he's out of dancing with the stars. The Drama Drop: Yes. No. I know, I know. I was like, dang it already. But with the conversation with Jen and Whitney, I I don't know what your thoughts were on it, so I'm curious to hear. But for me, it almost felt like Well, okay, I did think it was weird that she did go to New York because I mean I get it, it's like you want to support, but you're going already knowing that things aren't resolved. Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: And it was just so that I felt like was just uncomfortable. Cause yeah, for Whitney, it's just kind of like, okay, why are you here? And it's also weird to like, you know what for I could see kind of both sides. It's like, I don't want to talk about this now. Like we'll talk about it later, but like I will support you because like I am happy for you. But I thought it was weird that she said that in that moment. Like, I'm so like you did so good. Also, there are things I want to talk about. I'm not gonna do it here. It's like, okay. Well, now that just kind of felt like, what was the point of all that? Tara Miller: It's not the time. Yes. Well, Whitney's trying to enjoy her night. And I'm like putting myself in Whitney's shoes and like someone I obviously have confrontation with is like coming up and I'm like, ugh, like I don't want this to ruin my which props to The Drama Drop: No Tara Miller: Whitney, because I don't think she let it ruin her night. And I'm like, how? How did The Drama Drop: No. No. Tara Miller: you do that? Because I would love to take notes. Like, I feel like sometimes if someone has negative energy, I like really absorb it. And I'm like, she just deflected that, kept on with her great night. And like you The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: said, she, I feel like when In the past seasons, if some like season what was it, one for example, when Whitney was crying on the floor in the closet and Demi was screaming The Drama Drop: yeah. Tara Miller: at her, like she was absorbing that negativity and like feeling it. And now I feel like she's just so confident in herself. She has so much going for her. She has the amazing support system in Conner that she it just like bounces off of her. It doesn't even absorb The Drama Drop: Yes. Tara Miller: into her. And I'm like, I love that for her. I want that. The Drama Drop: For sure. For sure. And I feel like Jen also, I feel like the conversation didn't necessarily go how she wanted it to go. I mean, yeah, Tara Miller: Hundred percent. The Drama Drop: I think she was ex preparing for Whitney to really be apologetic and a lot Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: more soft and be like, I am so sorry, XYZ. But Whitney Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: was really just kind of like what you said on live was just like not cool. Like, okay, I accept your apology, but that doesn't mean we're gonna go skip to Maloo and be BFFs, and I feel like Tara Miller: Yeah, I agree. The Drama Drop: Jen really wanted to just harbor in like, like, no, like poor me, yes, and drag it out. And Whitney's like, Tara Miller: Go on and on. Yes. And it's like, okay, they were yes. The Drama Drop: Okay, great. Thanks for this conversation. Like, we're done now, like moving on. Tara Miller: Moving on. And I I feel like you're right. I think they both had different mindsets going into it. I think Jen had been harboring so much. First of all, she self-isolated. So it gives her less interaction with all the women. So she was harboring that anger, hurt, and resentment from Whitney from Dancing with the Stars when she liked thought she laughed, which whether she did or didn't, I don't know. Wasn't didn't look great. But I think she wanted an apology for that. And I think she can't move on with that relationship. Without receiving the apology, because she feels like if she does not receive an apology for the hurt that Whitney caused her, she's like, Why would I want to have a relationship with this person that hurt me? And I'm like, okay. And then Whitney's like, Yeah, I was glad she went home, which I'm surprised she said that. But she The Drama Drop: I know I know. Tara Miller: was like, she got her apology from Jen saying what she said on live, and she's like, Great, like, I don't think Whitney even cares to have a relationship with her so she wasn't like devastated over it. So I think they have different The Drama Drop: Right, right. Tara Miller: wants and they were feeling different things because they had different levels of like what the outcome would be. The Drama Drop: Yes, a hundred percent. No, I completely agree. Yeah, that whole situation was just very weird. And yeah, I think fortunately, you know, like Whitney came out on top on that because she just held her own and she was just like, Okay, great, that's perfect. Like, now we can just move on. But I think Jen really just wanted to drag it out and just make it a huge thing. And everyone else is like, we're still talking about this. Tara Miller: Yeah, yeah. And then then she made a TikTok by herself, which was sad. And and the girls were trying to include her. And I she said, like, well, you know, a couple of weeks ago some people weren't Whitney's fan, but now that she's doing so well, she's their fan. And I'm like, could that be true? Cause we don't see everything. We see very edited parts. I'm like, maybe. But also some other people might have spent more time and conversations with Whitney and been able to do that repair, or since, you know, Jen chose isolation, she doesn't have those interactions. Which allow for opportunity to re The Drama Drop: Yep, absolutely. And it yeah, like you said, she was like very isolated. I don't think she's on that level with the other girls to even know what was going on between them and Whitney. Like obviously there was a lot of repairing going on because we see how close Mikayla and Whitney were. Like she was like sitting on her lap. Like they were having like a grand old time. I was like, wow. Like Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: they went my even Mikayla was giving Jen advice on how to work through. Tara Miller: Yes. Handle it. The Drama Drop: So I was like. wow, you know, like I don't know. But that made me happy to see that Whitney had better relationships with the girls. And I think that's just like the perfect exit for her. I think this is correct. Yeah. Yes. So Tara Miller: Truly, she couldn't have left on a higher note. The Drama Drop: kudos to her for that. Tara Miller: truly. And I'm excited to watch her on Traders. I hope her husband comes out with a book, How to Be a Husband. The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: And I will watch wherever they go. I'm so excited. But I also think that whatever publicist or PR agent or, you know, media training or life coaching or straight-up therapy that. Whitney has gotten. I think she should also write a book about it because she has had a wonderful transformation. The Drama Drop: Absolutely. No, completely, completely agree. And she knows how to take opportunities that make Tara Miller: Mm-hmm. The Drama Drop: sense for her. And she's not too afraid to admit that, yeah, I'm trying to better myself. You know, like she, like I said, she's very open about, yeah, I came back because I knew about this dancing with the stars thing. Like, what are we talking about? She's Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: open with she knows stepping stones that she needs to take to level up. And then of course that helps when you have a really supportive partner. Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: And who's not like you said, just doing it just because it's like, I'll just Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: do it because I have to. It's like, no, I'm doing it because I want to and this is so exciting watching you get to do everything that you wanna do. So Tara Miller: Exactly. And like part of me, kind of like a cynical part of me, wonders, not that I I don't even know if I should say this, it might be mean. But like if Zach was as genuinely like happy and enthusiastic and supportive of Jen as Conner is of Whitney, would Jen be a happier person? Would she be in a different mindset? Would she be taking opportunities we don't know about? I don't know. Cause I think I think one thing women want is emotional support. Not just like, yes, you are there, yes, you watch the kids, yes, you make food or like, you know, put gas in the vehicle. Like those are acts of service, which I call like physical support that you could like hire a chef, hire a cleaning lady. Like those are hireable things. But I think what makes a marriage work is that emotional connection. And if you don't have that like true emotional support, I think that's where they feel that disconnect. The Drama Drop: Yeah. I have been wondering. I don't have any like really hard evidence or proof of it, but their relationship has just kind of confused me a little bit. Like obviously I wasn't a fan in the beginning of Zach. And then Tara Miller: Mm. The Drama Drop: as it's gone on, it's weird because I just I do yeah, it's like he's made changes, but made changes with resentment and Some of these things that she's wanting to do or like proposing to him. I had the mindset of, okay, does she actually want to do these things or is she trying to see like what could be his breaking point to get out of this marriage? You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, does she Tara Miller: I didn't even think about that. The Drama Drop: actually really want to do sports illustrated? Like, that seems kind of random. I mean, I'm could definitely be something. Like that would be cool. Like, Tara Miller: Hey! The Drama Drop: great. If you get that opportunity, absolutely. But you know what I mean? It was just like it's And she knows, like there's no way, like I knew she knew, like that presenting that to Zach, he was gonna be like, sports illustrated, you know, like, huh? Like, and then, Tara Miller: Like that's a kick to the nuts. The Drama Drop: you know, like seriously, I'm like, gosh. And then she's talking about wanting to do movies and all these I I don't Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: know if you saw that whole they started first of all, a marriage fighting in a comment section. That's crazy. But Tara Miller: I know. The Drama Drop: Yeah, she's like brought up doing movies and then somehow sex scenes got brought up and like, I wouldn't want you to do. I almost just wonder if it's like she not doesn't want to be the one to call it quits, but she's like, Okay, let me just see. Yeah, it's like, let me just see, Tara Miller: Yeah, out of like fear or shame or guilt. Because I'm like thing yeah. The Drama Drop: and maybe he's gonna be the one to be like, all right, I don't wanna do that. I don't know if she would ever get to that point, because that's just I don't know. Tara Miller: I don't know. The Drama Drop: But I'm just like, is she just trying to see how far she could push? Tara Miller: Hash The Drama Drop: to maybe somehow get out of this 'cause she doesn't necessarily want to be the one to do it. Tara Miller: Ooh, that's so interesting. I never thought of that. That's a really good point you're making. That's interesting. I know. The Drama Drop: Yeah, I d yeah. I mean only time will tell, but Tara Miller: Gosh. The Drama Drop: All I know is I hope that there's no more babies for them too, because I don't know Tara Miller: my gosh. The Drama Drop: how she's doing it. Tara Miller: I don't know either. I'm like, how can you be so frustrated with a person and then sleep with them so much and conceive so much? I'm like, it just doesn't add up in my brain, but The Drama Drop: No, no, I don't I really like I d I can't process it. The math isn't mathing, but we'll see. I don't know. Tara Miller: I know. Anyways, what are your hopes for season six? What do you hope to see in season six? What answer what questions do you want answered in season six? And also, on top of all those questions I just asked you, cast is thinning out. The top of the double decker bus is thinning. So who would you add? Because I will say one of my happiest moments of season five, which this is so minor, but one of my happiest moments of season five, and I texted you about this. Was sing our Queen Camille. The Drama Drop: No, absolutely. I I almost wonder if that was a little tester for her to just kind of dip her toes in to start merging her into the season. I would love to have her on. Tara Miller: Please Yes. The Drama Drop: And okay, this and you're you might be shocked at this person that I'm about to say. And I just want to say for the record, it is not for the fact of that I am a fan that I necessarily want to see her or think sh thinks that Tara Miller: Girl? Okay. The Drama Drop: she She deserves a platform, but I think she has inserted herself in plenty of situations and was kind of a topic of the season, though we didn't get to see her. I feel like she has a lot that she needs to answer to, address head on as a Shinia Tara Miller: Please say it. Please say it. I knew okay I was like, okay, she first I was scared you were gonna say he, but then when you said she I had relief. Yeah, that's The Drama Drop: No, no. Tara Miller: something. The Drama Drop: Cause this chick is insane. This is crazy. I'm like, first of all, poor Miranda. Okay. Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: She has to deal with Chase being her ex. She has to co-parent with this man. And she just the emotional maturity she has to be able to like Tara Miller: Mm. The Drama Drop: put those things aside for her kids. But she Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: can only handle so much. And to hear. One of your best friends, while they you they were living with you, you were giving them a place to stay. That's not an open invitation to do I don't care. Like, you know, like girl code, obviously. Don't care if you hate your ex, whatever, but you just don't go after unless there is some explicit of Tara Miller: Mm. The Drama Drop: I don't care what this man does. He could be with whoever. He could be with you if he wanted to. If you get that, Tara Miller: Not right. The Drama Drop: sure, whatever. But to learn that. Tara Miller: Yeah. my gosh. The Drama Drop: And this chick, I mean, obviously, like I guess she wasn't like super close with Taylor Frankie Paul, but it's weird. She was like having conversations and like I feel like they were cordial. And obviously, like Tara Miller: Mm. The Drama Drop: she knew situations that was happening with Taylor and Dakota, but then she weasled her way into Dakota. I'm like, this girl does not rest. It's just no. Tara Miller: Ugh. I think, yeah. I think poor Miranda, I agree with you a thousand percent. And also, Jesse was on a podcast recently where she was like, you know, exes don't need to be involved in the show. So Dakota will not be in season six and Jordan will not be in season six. And I'm like, can Chase not be in season six as well, please? Because that is Miranda's ex. And I understand people think he's funny or whatever it is, but like I Do not need F-boy energy. That's so, I think middle school. I'm like, we can move on without him. He does not The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: need to be there. Miranda does not need that. Why The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: are we giving him a platform? Let's not. And The Drama Drop: Mm-hmm. Tara Miller: let's move on. I would be pro adding Camille. I know you would be too. I'd also some I'm The Drama Drop: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Tara Miller: gonna get hate for this, but I'm gonna say it. I am The Drama Drop: heck yeah. Tara Miller: pro adding Demi back. A hundred percent. The Drama Drop: no, a thousand percent. Tara Miller: Yes, a thousand percent. The Drama Drop: Yes. Tara Miller: Let's add to me back. I was sad she left. I mean, and I we've said this before, I do think she was a fan favorite season one. I think that is The Drama Drop: yeah. Tara Miller: not an overstatement. I think it's the truth. And I think we need her level of direct honesty in our lives. The Drama Drop: Yes. Yes. And here's the thing. I don't know your thoughts. I stand by, cause I clocked this before Jesse and Marciano got officially together. I told my husband, I was like, you know, it's just really interesting, all of this. Like, in my mind, is there a world in which Demi is telling the truth on this whole Marciano Jesse situation. And they do want to be together. They do have feelings for each other. And it's just like they created a game plan. We are going to pivot. We are going to shift the focus and we are going to hone in on Demi and just really make that the driving point. We'll do that together. You know, we'll admit to this part and just really put the whole everything on her. And that was before. Tara Miller: that'd be sick. The Drama Drop: All of this came out where that was even before Tara Miller: Hmm. The Drama Drop: she filed for divorce and all of like where she could start being seen out with Marciano. 'Cause obviously, you know, now her and Jordan are no longer together. And now, Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: I mean, obviously, like it's she is with Marciano, like boyfriend, girlfriend. So Tara Miller: There's a lot of questions with Jesse, Marciano, and her ex husband that need to be answered in season six. The Drama Drop: Yes, yes. I feel like that still like we don't, we shouldn't glaze over that. And Tara Miller: No, said The Drama Drop: I know you don't want to necessarily see Jordan, but I feel like in that regard that we need if we could close that chapter, but it any side story, it's like, no. But anything Tara Miller: No. The Drama Drop: that has to deal with you know, like those situations or even like Chase Miranda Shana, which which I'm glad Miranda talked to Chase and be like, don't disrespect me like that. Tara Miller: Yes, she she was, I think I saw some comment that she was like, she was the standalone soldier this season. And I'm like, she was. Yes. The Drama Drop: Seriously. She really was. Like, she's like, I put up with so much of your crap. Like, I try to co-parent as cordially as possible to make it just normal for the kids. Like, none of that anymore. You can't just come over anymore. Like, you disrespect Tara Miller: Boundaries. The Drama Drop: me time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again. It's crazy. It's actually. And Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: then also, too, yeah, like he made out with Jesse. Why did Jesse do that? I don't know. I like so Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: I. Yeah, I think Tara Miller: And he knows the girls are going to Mace's house to get a ring, so of course he shows up because he's so hungry or thirsty. The Drama Drop: Right. How convenient. Tara Miller: Yeah. He knew he knew they were filming, so he shows up because he just wants screen time. I'm like, ew, go away. And you and your messy Tesla, go away. The Drama Drop: Yes. gosh. And he hates it when any of the girls call him out on it. He hates it when Mikayla says something about it. He's like, I'm just as much of a part of this as yada yada yada. And she's like, okay. Like Tara Miller: He said he got paid more than than Jordan. That was hilarious. Okay, sorry. We're not The Drama Drop: Ha ha Tara Miller: giving him okay. But my favorite part was when he was so thirsty that Mikayla like, Yeah, if I tell him that Allen block him for a second, he'll do anything. And she was right. I was like, You go, Mikayla The Drama Drop: It's so crazy. It's so funny. I just, my gosh. Tara Miller: And the Jace quote when they were outside and like they were going back inside to the birthday party's like, okay, bye, honey. I love you or whatever. He The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: Jace's little and Jace's other quote that he was the only person 100% right on the money at dinner in New York, when everyone's like, Taylor, what were you doing in your hotel room? Were you talking to Dakota? Were you sending nudes? And then she's just like, and Jace is like, So you're saying it's mo it's much worse. And she's like, The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: And he's like, There's a person in your room. Like he He was the only one who like right away knew. I'm like Jay's having his low key moments. The Drama Drop: Right. Like, like, yeah, way to go. Way to go. Also, completely sidebar on this, I was getting I was d getting so just irritated hearing her phone ding so many times. Cause obviously everybody was like, okay, her phone is going off way too much. How is she not getting annoyed at the I'm sure obviously editing, they probably made it to be a lot, you know, quicker, but I just was like. Tara Miller: Yes. Ding ding ding ding ding. But how rude to order literally all the desserts and bounce. Like I understand Hulu The Drama Drop: why did she do that? Tara Miller: might be paying for it and not the girls, but still rude. The Drama Drop: It was so weird. She was like, all right, yeah, one of everything. All right, gotta go. Tara Miller: Poor waiter, he's like, But there's so many options And she's like, All and he's like The Drama Drop: I mean, yeah, she was like, I need to make sure these women are fed. I need them to be distracted. So I have plenty of time to go back and hide Ben if I need to. Tara Miller: To drink out of a faucet. Which by the way, there was not that we need to go there, but they like fully stripped down in front of two different camera crews in that tub because there was two angles happening. The Drama Drop: Yeah, yeah, I know. No. Tara Miller: Not not ideal. Not an ideal situation, but anyways, I digress. moving on, girl. We have hopefully a lot of unanswered things gonna be answered in season six. The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: Hopefully we have additional castmates. Hopefully some of the men are gone. Hopefully. Also, are we getting a season five after the final rose or recap or whatever it's called? Yes. The Drama Drop: I have no idea a reunion. I don't know. I genuinely have zero clue as to what is going to happen. Tara Miller: Mm. The Drama Drop: I'm also curious too, you know, if Taylor, you know, sticks to this and she's not coming back and she really means that. If that means Mikayla would come back, because you know, she's Tara Miller: I think she posted today. She said, I'm not coming back no matter what. It's not just about Taylor. Yeah, yeah. She The Drama Drop: okay. Tara Miller: said it's also like other issues that she's brought up with production over time and they have The Drama Drop: Got it. Tara Miller: the way they've handled it and that she just still feels absolutely strongly that she's not coming back. The Drama Drop: Okay. Okay. Actually, there's gotta be something that's finalizing all of that because I don't know if you saw it was a story or what, but she posted something that basically was like on my way to go for my last day to say my final everything. So there's gotta Tara Miller: Peace. Yes. The Drama Drop: be something that is closing the loop Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: for this season at least. so I don't for sure know what that looks like. Tara Miller: No, I'm sad to see her go though, because like I wish her SERS journey had more airtime. Cause cron like the chronic inflammatory recipe or whatever the C I R S stands for, so many people have. Number one. And number two, it was from her house being infected with mold. Like she did all those tests. She took out implants. She went to Germany on a holistic retreat. She like changed her diet. She's tried everything. And The Drama Drop: Mm. Tara Miller: to find out that it was her own house poisoning her. The Drama Drop: Ugh. Tara Miller: Number one is The Drama Drop: Yeah. Tara Miller: so common. Like I'm I found out that I have mold in my house and we're dealing with that. And like production could have highlighted that for one second and made millions of viewers be like, huh, I have unanswered health questions. Maybe I should get my home tested for mold. And they could have actually healed some people, but they decided not to The Drama Drop: For sure. Yeah. Cause Tara Miller: air a second of it. The Drama Drop: yeah. No, cause that is actually very common. And it's something that it's so blind. Like that's really not gonna be your first thought. Cause you don't Tara Miller: Yes, it's hidden. No. The Drama Drop: like unless you see it like actually just growing, how are you really to know? Tara Miller: Exactly. Which most of the time it's hidden behind a wall or behind a ceiling and you don't see it growing unless like someone rips into it. The Drama Drop: Yep. Yep. No, I totally agree. But it's a shame. And then obviously we know Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: Macy, she's up in the air about what she's gonna do. So I do think there is a world in which they can continue. If they bring Camille on, if they bring Demi back, I I don't Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: know what her thoughts are on it. Cause I mean, I know she's doing other shows. I don't know if she Tara Miller: Mm-hmm. The Drama Drop: has a bad relationship now with producers and production, because I'm sure she probably part of her feels like Tara Miller: Hmm. Yeah. And they painted The Drama Drop: Someone had to be painted the villain and you guys chose me and Tara Miller: her dirty because they edited to be like, Demi, what are your thoughts, empty chair? I'm like, that was low on producer's part. The Drama Drop: Yeah. Yeah. No, yeah. So it's like I don't even know, even if she did get the opportunity to come back, if she would, Tara Miller: Mm. The Drama Drop: which would be very unfortunate because I feel like she would be great to come back. But Tara Miller: Double her pay. The Drama Drop: yeah, like we'll see, we'll see. I don't know. Again, like you said, there's so many unanswered questions and I just won't feel complete until we know one way or the other. So that way at least I can have it be put to rest, especially too, because we're watching these women live their lives out on social media. So, like you said, it's like Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: even though we knew production was paused, we're still seeing things develop. And it's Tara Miller: Mm-hmm. The Drama Drop: just nice to have the show to have the extra context and more background information. Cause, you Tara Miller: Hundred percent. Yes. The Drama Drop: know, it's just, it's just kind of confusing seeing certain things. And yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Well It's just such a big question mark. It really is. Tara Miller: We're ready. I know. I hope we get some answers. I hope some of these loose ends are tied up in season six. And I hope for all of the women that they can all find happiness, peace, healing, whatever that looks like for each different one. The Drama Drop: Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Do we want to wrap it up with Sheik and Week of the Week? Okay. Tara Miller: Yes, I'm so excited to do this. Thank you for asking me. And is that okay if I The Drama Drop: Absolutely. Tara Miller: have multiple? The Drama Drop: yeah, absolutely. Tara Miller: Okay, I came prepared. I had I took some notes. Okay. The Drama Drop: my gosh, I love this. Tara Miller: So my chic of the week is number one, Mikayla choosing her morals over money. That's a very good one. The Drama Drop: Ooh, yes, yes, absolutely. Tara Miller: Also, might be underrated, but I think taking social media breaks when needed is very chic. The Drama Drop: It is. Tara Miller: Very chic. Macy buying a new house is super chic. Very excited for her. Can't wait to see. What her husband does, he's been doing his little like, you know, home reno reels. Those are exciting, so very excited for them. Also, The Drama Drop: Yes, absolutely. Tara Miller: Chic of the Week, Layla's gonna release a book. That's major. The Drama Drop: yes, I did see that. That's exciting. That's exciting. Tara Miller: Yes. Excited for her. and Taylor Frankie Paul acquired her first rental property. So that's like a different income source, not online. So that's chic diversifying The Drama Drop: Yeah Tara Miller: her portfolio, her income portfolio. Love that. The Drama Drop: Absolutely. Tara Miller: Whitney being on traders, super chic. I think she's a hundred percent gonna be a trader. If they cast her as a faithful faithful, that's a missed opportunity. The Drama Drop: my gosh, you're so not wrong. She has to be a traitor. There's no other option. Yeah. Yeah. Tara Miller: It has to be. Huh? And do you know what? If I was in the house with her, I'd be like, I know she's a traitor and I don't care. I will be her like faithful bestie. Yes. I'd be like, I'll be your shield. Yes, girl. The Drama Drop: I'm gonna team up with her. Yes. Recruit me when the time comes. Yeah. Tara Miller: We rise you to the end. and then another chic of the week would be adding Camille into Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. The Drama Drop: my God. I love it. I love it. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead and do your week of the week. Yeah. Tara Miller: Yes. And then are we doing weeks of the week? Is that what what we're titling it? Okay. producers putting money over mental health. Definitely. Having exes film is weak. It's for the weak. And then I think f a five episode season is weak. I understand the reasons, but it's not a full season. So that's kind of weak. The Drama Drop: No. Yo. You can't call it you could call it a mini series. Tara Miller: No. And then having like when you are doing a mini series and having like at least 17% of the screen time be flashbacks and social media The Drama Drop: Right. Tara Miller: clips and countdowns is also pretty weak. It's a waste of time. So those are my weeks. The Drama Drop: my gosh. Okay. Wow. You really I I just did one of each. So you really killed it and I love that. Tara Miller: Thank you. The Drama Drop: okay. My chic, kind of similar to one of yours, is Camille making a cameo because I just feel like that is an Easter egg into what is potential to move forward. So I hope we see more of her. I hope there is more of her. So yeah, so Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: that is my chic. Just making a little sneak peek. She didn't say anything. She didn't have a friend of a friend little confessional. Like she just was there. Hello, I'm here, you know? Tara Miller: But her presence was felt. Yes. The Drama Drop: and then my week of the week is drinking hot water out of a bathtub faucet. I'm sorry. Like, I understand, you know, being a kid and playing in the yard Tara Miller: Mm. The Drama Drop: and you have a hose and it's super hot and you just need to like put some, but like. You're taking a bath, you're in a bubble bath, that water isn't cold or refreshing. And let's just say, you know, you really needed something to wet the whistle. It the hot bathtub water like and going under the fossil, like the whole maneuver of that. And Ben in Tara Miller: Mm. The Drama Drop: the back is like, what am I watching? Yeah, that was kind of weak. Cause that just that was crazy. That was Tara Miller: He's like, you're a wild animal or something was his quote. The Drama Drop: unhinged. Tara Miller: Yeah, well, and also made me flash back to like the sc scene before, like the maybe the episode before when Whitney turned on her New York bathroom faucet and was like brown water. I'm like, this is New York water. This is not Nebraska The Drama Drop: My gosh. Yes. Yes. Tara Miller: aquifer water. The Drama Drop: So that's the water that you are chugging back. Yeah. No, absolutely insane. Tara Miller: Yeah. I hope she doesn't get like a parasite or like because the last thing she needs is a serious health issue on top of everything she's going through. Yes. The Drama Drop: No, we don't need that. We don't need that. So no one do that, please. No one drink some water. Just have your Stanley right next to the to the tub if you end up getting thirsty. But Tara Miller: Put my water in a cute cup in case I like started coughing on campus. The Drama Drop: My gosh, no, that's so cute. Yeah. Yeah. Put it in whatever cup you want. Like, Tara Miller: Yeah, it makes you happy. The Drama Drop: make it fun. Yeah, absolutely. Well, those are our chic and weeks of the week. Wait, hold on. Sheiks and weeks of the week. I love it. But Tara Miller: Yes. The Drama Drop: thank you so much for coming on and talking secret lives. I know it's our favorite topic. Like we could go on for millions of hours. it's been so Tara Miller: Yeah. The Drama Drop: fun chatting with you. Before I let you Tara Miller: Thank you. The Drama Drop: go, what can everybody be on the lookout for? Like what do you have coming up? Do you have anything coming up? Where can they follow you? Where can they keep tabs on you? Tara Miller: my goodness. Thank you first of all so much for inviting me back. It has been a pleasure The Drama Drop: Absolutely. Tara Miller: to talk to you, even though we're talking about some hard things. I always love chatting Secret Lives of Mormon Wives with you. so thank you for having me back. This was so much fun to just chat about a reality show we love. yeah, so my name's Tara Miller. I own the Heartland Interior Design. It's a residential commercial design firm. I'm on Instagram at the underscore heartland. Sometimes in my free time I'll throw in like a design or business or reality TV podcast, but it's so rare. I'm not like a The Drama Drop: Ha ha Tara Miller: committed podcaster. I am a committed designer though. And I do have some fun things coming up. when is this coming out? Do you know? The Drama Drop: Thursday. Yeah. Tara Miller: This week? Okay, amazing. Okay, I won't share that. But I am going to Ireland next month to a lighting manufacturer. I bought some lights for for a client's project. So I'm gonna be sharing about that. But yeah, we're just working on a lot of fun residential and commercial projects. I share sneak peeks as we go, but construction takes a long time, so you won't see like finished products for a while. But yeah, I also love to share travel and nature because those are the things that inspire me. So yeah. The Drama Drop: Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Everybody go follow her because her account is so great. Like all the aesthetic stuff that you have going on, all the tidbits and just like even business related things that you post, it's great. So you'll definitely have a fun time over there. So everybody go check her out. Tara Miller: Did I tell you I have a project right outside of Salt Lake City, Utah? The Drama Drop: No? Tara Miller: Yeah, and I'm gonna do a site visit and I'm gonna like make a to-do list for myself and be like, I need to go try all the swigs. I need to go to Jay-Z Styles and like just see the Empire. Like, yeah, I need to talk, I need to call you and I can fill you in. But yeah, I'm really excited. The Drama Drop: Yes, yes, please. Yeah. Yeah. And then when we went, because we went, I don't know, I think around May, I'll Tara Miller: Okay. The Drama Drop: have to tell you some things that you should do. yeah. Yeah, we'll definitely connect. Tara Miller: Please do. Yeah, and anyone listening, if you have Salt Lake City suggestions, put them in the comments. The Drama Drop: Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Tara Miller: Okay, thank you so much, girl. The Drama Drop: yes, thank you. It was so much fun. Thanks for listening to the drama drop, you guys. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Follow at the dot drama dot drop on all socials. And I'll see you in the next episode because somebody has to talk about it. Love you guys.