Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / Safety & Style: Project Motoring (PMX)

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Safety & Style: Project Motoring (PMX) · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

• 0:00
  Break fix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from
• 0:04
  all over the auto sphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors,
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  designers, and everything in between.
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  Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrol heads that wonder.
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  How did they get that job or become that person?
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  The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.
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  Hey everybody, crew chief, Eric here.
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  And I know it's been a while since we've had tonight's guest on our show.
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  And a little known fact, he was actually on our very first
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  recording, although it didn't come out until way later in season one.
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  So with me tonight is John Caffese, who has now resurfaced
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  from being away for quite a while.
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  And he wants to share.
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  A long term project he's been working on called The Project.
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  So John, welcome back to Break Fix.
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  We're going to dive in a little deeper into what The Project is all about,
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  how it started, and where it's going.
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  Hello, hello.
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  Excited to be back.
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  Yes, I remember episode one about another topic that was a brainchild of ours.
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  So excited to be back and talk about The Project.
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  Old things and new things.
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  That's right.
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  Last time you were on, we were talking about what should I buy V8 convertibles.
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  Mm hmm.
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  Mm hmm.
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  And it was a good time.
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  Unfortunately, we weren't, I would say, prepared as we would be normally,
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  in a good way, in the fact that independently, I believe, the three
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  or four of us all came up with about the same list of six cars.
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  Yeah.
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  And we're like, well, this is a problem, because we're all saying the same thing.
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  Our spidey senses were working pretty well.
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  We should have checked with each other to see, Hey, I'm going to say
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  this car, okay, so I shouldn't, so.
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  But you know, I have to thank you for setting off our first What Should I
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  Buy, because it has been a popular and reoccurring set of episodes in our
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  series, and we've done several since then.
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  I'm a trendsetter.
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  I feel like we've started a lot of fads, both in the GTM community and abroad.
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  I will take all the credit for it single handedly, despite all
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  your hard work over the last year.
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  Thank you.
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  I appreciate you running the torch.
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  I would like to give you some house points, which I
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  also created and introduced.
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  So points to you and uh, let's have a good time.
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  Well, as we sit back in our smoking jackets, leather bound books and chairs
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  in the cigar club here, sipping on, what are we, what are we drinking?
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  We have only of the finest.
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  liqueur, uh, Di Serrano.
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  That's right.
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  And uh, and cheers.
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  Cheers.
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  Welcome back.
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  Mixed with a small family recipe.
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  of Sugary Syrup.
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  You may have heard of it.
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  Out of the Atlanta area.
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  Out of Atlanta.
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  Coca Cola.
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  No sponsorship or endorsement implied.
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  But, uh So let's take a trip down memory lane.
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  Let's talk about The Project.
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  Or The Project Motoring, I guess.
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  Officially referred to as.
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  Sure.
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  So project motoring today is a safety apparel company that we've started.
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  We being me and Dave Gilbert, another instructor coach driver with us.
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  If you guys know a little bit about me, great.
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  If you don't MSF level two certified.
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  Instructor.
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  I was a regional owner and now staff member of Hooked on Driving Northeast.
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  I work with the corporate a lot.
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  We're pretty national in that.
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  SCCA instructor.
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  You name it.
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  I've been in other organizations.
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  Been doing HPDEs and the behind the scenes business of HPDEs for almost a decade.
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  It's eight years now.
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  It's time flies.
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  So, as a side venture, I, uh, kind of expanded that.
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  So instead of just on track product, as far as driving or the cars, out of
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  that came a passion of seeing how the safety equipment industry over the
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  years, especially in the last five years has exploded in a good way.
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  Like we had the introduction of affordable head and neck restraints and the, and
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  the Hans and the Simpson hybrid systems.
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  And as Nomex comes down in price and more availability, and more
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  education and technology has revolved around safety equipment.
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  It's really worked its way into the HPDE world because unfortunately physics is
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  physics and it doesn't matter if you're in a full blown race car on the race day
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  or just doing a run in the middle HPDE or even an autocross event, you know,
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  fire is fire and it's going to happen whether you have a race or an HPDE.
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  So, well, we hope not.
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  We hope correct, but you want to be prepared, right?
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  So the idea that, Oh, I'm only doing this or that really doesn't
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  make sense in the world of that.
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  So if there's an issue, there's going to be an issue wherever it is.
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  So hopefully we have no issues.
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  So, and this is a issue of actually really great importance to you
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  because now you're actually acting as a volunteer firefighter as well.
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  So you're seeing it on a whole different level.
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  Sure.
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  So I'm also, yeah, I'm a volunteer firefighter.
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  Uh, I'm a graduate of the Pennsylvania state fire Academy as well.
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  I'm going to take a sip of my liqueur here, cheers to that.
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  Cheers.
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  I'm also an officer in the army.
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  So I've been overseas recently back.
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  So safety is something that comes up a lot and it's something that
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  I'm certainly passionate about.
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  It seemed natural.
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  It was an easy transition into getting some of this stuff into a
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  more affordable and widespread sense.
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  So that's where project motoring is now.
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  Our basic mantra for project motoring, I know it kind of bounced around there, but
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  to really focus on what project motoring the company is, is Mazda had a It's kind
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  of a one driver, one horse where they were designing the car about being drivers.
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  Ours are a little bit similar in the fact that it's focused around the driver.
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  So if you're driving your sports car or whatever you're on track, which
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  is, we're focused on track, anything that the driver touches is the safety
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  equipment that we want to have.
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  So, so what does that mean?
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  So your garments, your boots, your gloves, your undergarments, your custom
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  suits, which were coming out with prices that are Basically the same
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  price for a fully custom tailored suit designed how you want it for what the
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  big boys sell off the shelf as well as helmets, head and neck restraints,
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  seats, harnesses and steering wheel.
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  So basically if you touch it while you're sitting down in it, we have a product for
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  you that's going to be the same quality or better as some of the bigger guys.
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  Kind of like those 90s commercials, you know.
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  We cut out the middleman, factory direct, manufacturer direct.
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  So we're able to pass the savings on, which is great because for the
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  people who only do it a few days a year, they might think that they
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  don't need it, but it only takes once.
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  That's something we've really been focusing on.
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  And we're pretty excited because we have more and more products coming to market.
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  We've recently been SFI, Safety Foundation Institute certified as a manufacturer.
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  Our material has been tested, putting out the reports online as a, uh,
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  somewhat marketing, but just really proud that our stuff is getting through.
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  And it's a good start.
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  So that's where project motoring is today.
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  And it's kind of where we're going.
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  So let's talk about the past.
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  So where did it all start?
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  Because your passion for cars goes all the way back to when you were a little
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  kid and it stems way beyond that point.
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  Yes, so we're sitting here in our letter bound books of the library.
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  Otherwise known as my kitchen.
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  Please don't smoke inside, take your shoes off, wear your slippers.
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  Yeah, so I've been a car guy all my life.
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  I blame my parents.
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  We're just sitting here looking at some pictures of the various ones
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  that I've had and me as a kid.
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  I've always been a car guy.
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  So how did Project Motoring come about?
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  Well, it started roughly 12 years ago.
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  I was in law school, which sounds like forever, but it's really not.
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  And, uh, I was in a lot of car clubs.
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  I had some tuner cars like everybody else in the late aughts.
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  Especially those, uh, SS Cobalts.
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  Yeah, I did have a turbo Cobalt.
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  It was a street car.
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  I did a lot of all across with it.
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  That's how I got into like motor sports competition legally.
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  Unfortunately, I did a lot of street racing with it, but I found my way to the
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  straight and arrow It was a great car.
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  Really great car.
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  Good chassis.
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  Good power car made a ton of power Made like 350 wheel horsepower,
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  which for a 2, 900 pound car.
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  It's a lot with like a 390 final drive ratio It just Now, granted,
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  it was a sub 12 second car street car, which, you know, it was in the
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  common boxes, much like the SRT4s and WRXs, but just Chevy's version of it.
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  So, unfortunately, I was involved in some late night, unsanctioned, uh, runs there.
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  A car club formed around it, and that was the project, right?
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  And the project was this group of guys that would enjoy their vehicles.
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  I envisioned those commercials from the late 2000s.
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  It's like we're gonna go behind a Dairy Queen and talk about our car.
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  Yeah, it's not too dissimilar.
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  So I ended up being we used to meet up twice monthly plan.
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  We go to We'd all go out to the bar together, which, you know, dinner,
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  and then people would bring their kids and we, we kind of grew up together.
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  So, which was great.
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  So that was a real strong family club for, that was here in the Northeast.
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  Yeah, that was here in the Northeast.
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  And then it grew, it was basically the PA, but it went into Jersey and New
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  York and sometimes down in Rockville and Maryland in different areas.
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  And we had, we had some people everywhere.
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  It wasn't such a formal membership was more of a loose collection
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  of people with some core members.
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  And, and then we would, you know, we'd go camping together, we'd travel
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  together, we'd go to the movies together.
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  And it was great.
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  But you know, people grow up and you know, they sell cars and have kids
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  and start new jobs and move away.
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  So.
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  Kind of faded off.
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  I got more competitive in, uh, actual competition for all the cross and whatnot.
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  I really started focusing on that.
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  And this is when you moved to the Corvette.
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  Yeah.
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  And I started, I started growing wider with, especially with my future
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  career and thinking, you know, maybe we shouldn't be doing the fast and
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  furious movies on the street here.
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  So, um, I, uh, ended up buying a C7 Corvette brand new.
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  I was the third one in the country to take delivery of it in September
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  22nd of 2013, it was a 2014 model.
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  Just dumb luck.
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  I was the third one.
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  The Corvette.
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  that was delivering them, not by VIN number or order number.
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  My VIN was 000692.
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  I remember that very vividly.
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  In fact, the stickers on the wall, it was by delivery date.
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  So whoever could fill a truck, I live in an area that you have to
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  pass through to get to New York city.
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  All right.
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  Makes sense.
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  So my truck, my car was the last one on and it was the first one off.
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  Because it was going to North Jersey and New York City where people with
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  a lot more money than us live and could pay for the Corvettes up front.
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  So I was lucky in that.
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  So I ended up joining the.
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  National Council of Corvette Clubs.
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  So NCCC, which was the sponsoring group of the areas that we were
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  doing all the cross with already.
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  And then I started running for the regional championship and actually
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  ended up winning a couple of years.
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  Came in second some other years.
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  There's actually a good guy that I used to run with, who still
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  runs with and hooked on driving.
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  So it's always funny.
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  Former GPM member as well.
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  Yes.
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  Yeah.
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  So Steve, if you're out there, hello, I won't put you on blast, but you just did.
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  Yeah, I won't say last names.
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  I don't know if he's going to hear it or not, but he's a great guy.
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  And we have a lot of fun, so that's really how I got into Hooked on Driving,
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  was I met Mike through the autocross, if you guys know Mike from Hooked on
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  Driving, and uh, he's become family, just like you guys, and he's kind of
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  never run away, so we've been doing that for eight years now, with Hooked
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  on Driving and Structural Engineering.
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  But you've been carrying the brand ever since, I see it on the cars, you see
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  the black and gold, not to be confused with, you know, Pittsburgh, and Hawaii.
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  Always that's family.
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  So everyone at corporate is, is great too.
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  It's a great cause.
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  So if you're not familiar with hooked on driving or what HPDE is, it's
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  non competitive track events, right?
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  So people who want to go on track, but aren't interested in racing
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  per se, or just want to do a couple of events a year, it's great.
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  So if you have your complete stock street car, it could be a, A rental car even,
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  you know, for people who are newer, the cars are always more capable than that.
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  So I don't care if you're in the stock Corolla, that car is
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  going to be able to do more than you can in your first few times.
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  Well, I meant more so than that.
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  You've actually been carrying the project brand ever since.
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  Yes.
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  You see it on your cars.
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  You see it where it unfolds.
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  That's what I meant by the black and gold.
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  Yeah.
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  So we've had, yeah.
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  So our colors are also black and gold, much like hooked on driving.
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  It's totally unintentional coincidence there.
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  We had t shirts, we had hoodies.
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  We would, you know, do fundraisers and stuff like that.
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  I've had the project.
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  As a brand for some time, right?
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  So, so where did that name come from?
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  How did that just, you know, it reminds me of like Jersey sort of like the situation.
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  Yeah.
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  So funny.
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  There was a, a club we were all a part of before that.
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  I won't say its name.
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  I will.
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  You can whisper it.
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  It had, it had no, now we were younger.
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  So it, I mean, in our twenties.
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  So.
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  There was no shortage of drama, something out of a movie.
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  Some of the more mature people broke away from that and we're like, we
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  got, we want to work on something else and we want to do something else.
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  And we're like, well, what do we call it?
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  What do we call this project?
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  Right.
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  And then we couldn't think of a name for it.
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  And I was just like, why don't we just call it the project?
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  Cause it's, you know, we keep saying we want to work on this
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  project and get away from that.
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  So that's really where it came from.
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  Something that simple.
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  The very first project meet was, uh, six cars.
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  I remember the guys vividly, right where it was in, in
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  behind a, a bar and restaurant.
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  Real popular little bar here in town in in the Poconos.
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  We went inside, we had some drinks, we had some place service, hot dogs.
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  We talked about what we wanna do.
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  It wasn't a Gakko.
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  No, no, no, no.
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  It was at Rudy's Tavern, east Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania.
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  A little hole in the wall place.
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  And we had supers, which is uh, bacon wrapped.
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  Hot dogs.
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  Oh, that sounds pretty good.
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  They're actually pretty famous in the area.
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  We should go.
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  As simple and stupid as that was like, we just needed a name for this project.
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  And when we said, let's just call it the project.
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  So it was the project for eight or nine years as I started to take the brand.
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  Cause you know, I don't want to say it was my work, but you know, I was
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  definitely the driving force behind it.
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  No pun intended, formalized it a little more, you know, cause
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  we had done some charity events.
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  We did some kind of like make a wish things for some kids who were sick who
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  wanted rides and Ferraris or exotic cars or high horsepower cars, you
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  know, cause they were sick or whatever.
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  So we actually started doing that.
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  We did about three or four of them.
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  I actually have one on video that was on YouTube.
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  It was awesome.
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  Amazingly.
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  with good luck and goodwill.
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  One of them just graduated high school, which we didn't
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  think he'd make it that far.
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  And this is almost 10 years ago.
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  So it's really cool.
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  He just bought a Mustang as a five.
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  Oh, and it's like, we're really happy for him.
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  But you know, I'd like to think we have something to do with him
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  being even more of a car net.
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  So we're like, okay, so we're starting to do organized things here.
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  More than just like randomly meeting up and being a drinking club, which
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  it was never really that I needed to formalize it a little more.
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  So the project became project murdering because it was no longer just about car
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  club as much as it was car culture or doing things around culture or culture.
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  So it wasn't just racing.
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  It wasn't just being at the track or just car shows, be everything.
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  So what's everything motoring.
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  So, you know, if you're motoring, motoring can be rallies.
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  Motoring can be poker runs.
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  Motoring can be helping kids out.
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  Motoring could be wrenching.
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  We're talking about cars, we're watching races or stuff like that.
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  So, so project motoring became project motoring probably four or five years ago.
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  And then I think we incorporated in 2019.
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  Gotcha.
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  Since about 2020, we've been putting plans in place to do something.
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  So it's going from going from the original car meets.
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  So it's water cross stuff to, you know, this more formalized
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  and now you're becoming, you've gone from a brand to a lifestyle.
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  Let's call it that.
• 14:57
  Right?
• 14:57
  Sure.
• 14:57
  Yeah.
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  So you kind of work.
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  Yeah.
• 14:58
  Yeah.
• 14:59
  Couture.
• 15:01
  You've now kind of changed the name again.
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  It's evolved another time.
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  Now it's PMX.
• 15:06
  Right.
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  So what's that all about?
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  PMX is not project.
• 15:09
  Not, not P90.
• 15:10
  Yeah.
• 15:11
  Yeah.
• 15:11
  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  So how did PMX come about?
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  So what is PMX?
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  So Project Motoring is a brand.
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  Project Motoring is a manufacturer.
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  Project Motoring is a retail reseller.
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  Project Motoring is a consulting business if you need coaches or trackside support.
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  We can do all that with our expertise between some of our advanced driver
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  coaches that we have on staff Or whether it be you need help running an event
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  because we have experience doing that that stuff we can do So what is PMX exactly?
• 15:38
  PMX is our brand.
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  It is our product brand.
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  What's the X stand for?
• 15:42
  Funny enough Well as you can gather PM and stands for project motoring.
• 15:46
  So what?
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  Extreme!
• 15:48
  Yeah, so I thought about that.
• 15:50
  We just need an extra letter It's a simpler.
• 15:52
  It's simpler than that Listen, you know, Walmart, ShopRite, Giant, they
• 15:55
  have their own brand, but they also sell Newman's Own, they'll sell Jiffy,
• 16:00
  but then they'll sell their brand.
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  So we have our brand of stuff that we get manufactured to our specs, which again
• 16:07
  has just been passed certifications.
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  We also resell some of the major name brands.
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  Obviously we push ours because the quality is the same or better for other price.
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  So I'll be honest with you.
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  It's a, it's a better margin for us, but everybody wins cause the client
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  gets a cheaper and we're actually hopefully able to make a living off.
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  That's what PMX is.
• 16:25
  So PMX is an apparel brand much like OMP or HRX is, and it's
• 16:29
  sold by Project Motoring much like Rue or Speed Commons, right?
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  So what does PMX stand for?
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  So yes, P A N M is Project and Motoring.
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  And no, it's not extreme as much as one would think.
• 16:41
  So we're thinking what's a good brand name, right.
• 16:43
  Or really an acronym.
• 16:44
  So we were thinking PM, two letters doesn't really resonate.
• 16:48
  So then it was like, well, project motorsports, PMS.
• 16:50
  And we're like, that's probably not going to work.
• 16:52
  That's not going to float.
• 16:53
  You know, that's, you know, I don't want to touch on that.
• 16:56
  You know, it's like, ah, that's, there could be some confusion there.
• 16:59
  It's the best.
• 17:00
  Yeah.
• 17:01
  Yeah.
• 17:02
  That's your tagline, right?
• 17:03
  That'd be terrible.
• 17:04
  Um, And I'll tell you why that'd be terrible for the exact reasons that
• 17:09
  you're thinking of and I'll get to that.
• 17:10
  So we needed a third letter.
• 17:12
  X just makes it sound cool.
• 17:14
  So X is just a third letter.
• 17:16
  So it's like, like in mathematics, the X is whatever you want it to
• 17:19
  be, whatever you want it to be.
• 17:20
  Find X.
• 17:21
  Right.
• 17:22
  So I am familiar with some, several other brands that use a three letter acronyms.
• 17:27
  And I'm aware of some of them, those letters don't mean anything.
• 17:30
  They are also interjected.
• 17:32
  So if you look up what the names are, I don't want to plug anybody else, but
• 17:36
  I'm, I'm I can tell you offline, you'd be surprised at What actually some of
• 17:40
  the names of the companies are that have these three letter acronyms that
• 17:44
  you know of, or other ones, right?
• 17:47
  That's what it means.
• 17:47
  You're like, yeah, but the acronym sounds cool.
• 17:52
  So it works, right?
• 17:53
  So it's your attention, right?
• 17:54
  Right.
• 17:55
  So PMX is, is Project Mothering's own brand.
• 17:59
  Maybe one day we'll get some retailers or resellers to do it.
• 18:03
  I know there was a company out of Maryland.
• 18:05
  They're called Grand Touring Motorsports.
• 18:06
  They're very interested in selling our products.
• 18:09
  And we're interested in working with them and setting something up.
• 18:12
  So the idea is that Project Moving will sell PMX stuff and then if
• 18:15
  other people also want access to PMX stuff, we'll be more than
• 18:18
  happy to help that get out there.
• 18:20
  Now why?
• 18:20
  Where did this come from?
• 18:21
  One, I have the passion because I fight fires almost daily
• 18:25
  as a volunteer firefighter.
• 18:26
  And being, having all the credentials, the same as a paid firefighter.
• 18:30
  Obviously my time in the Army and I'm still, still in the Army
• 18:32
  serving, which is fantastic.
• 18:34
  Thank you for that.
• 18:34
  A lot of issues, I get paid.
• 18:36
  A lot of, a lot of, a lot of focus on safety, especially being overseas.
• 18:40
  So it just kind of seemed natural that here I am, I'm constantly teaching
• 18:44
  people how to be, I don't want to say faster, but also safer on track.
• 18:48
  Well, a lot of it's the equipment that we bring, right?
• 18:50
  That's true.
• 18:50
  Everyone wants to set up their cars.
• 18:52
  How do I be better?
• 18:53
  Oh, let me go buy a crazy suspension and it's only your second day It's like you
• 18:57
  don't need that suspension, you know, I mean, but here's what you can do You can
• 19:01
  get some basic safety equipment, which will actually help you be faster, right?
• 19:04
  So do you want to put a seat in the car if you're willing to do that
• 19:07
  and the harnesses you can do that?
• 19:08
  And to your point we talked about this on our Episode in season one
• 19:12
  where safety as a system, right?
• 19:13
  And so you're definitely have to cater to that as well.
• 19:16
  And so just to not belabor that point, if anybody wants to go back and research it,
• 19:20
  yeah, I can look up that previous episode.
• 19:22
  No, yeah, definitely.
• 19:23
  Think things are intertwined.
• 19:24
  They don't act individually.
• 19:26
  Han's device is no good if you don't have the correct belt for it.
• 19:29
  But here's what works in all scenarios.
• 19:31
  Gloves, boots, suit, undergarments.
• 19:34
  We have unintentionally, as I just showed you, created a product line.
• 19:38
  It's a Nomex shirt and pants.
• 19:40
  It's heavier than a normal shirt.
• 19:41
  So it might not be something that you'd want to wear necessarily underneath
• 19:45
  a race suit, but you don't want to wear a race suit or you're in or out.
• 19:49
  I don't necessarily suggest that.
• 19:50
  I feel like if you're going to do something, do it all the way.
• 19:52
  I understand it's hot, but if you wanted to wear a long sleeve shirt, you didn't
• 19:56
  want to be fully committed to a suit, but you don't want to have no protection.
• 20:00
  We do have these in between products that can work a in conjecture with a
• 20:04
  A full racing suit or just on itself.
• 20:06
  Yeah, I agree with you.
• 20:07
  I mean, having put them in my hands and seen them, the quality is really good.
• 20:12
  And I'm with you.
• 20:13
  I think they're a little bit heavy to be underneath my suit that I would wear.
• 20:17
  But as a HPD coach on a fall day or spring where I want to wear a long
• 20:22
  sleeve shirt, but not have to put the suit on and get in and out of it and
• 20:25
  all that, I think it's actually a really great compromise between many of us
• 20:29
  have to do is like, or I'm going to wear something that I'm gonna put a hoodie on.
• 20:32
  Um, Or I'm going to wear something, put my suit on and I'm getting in
• 20:34
  and out of clothing all the time.
• 20:35
  And it's like, it's actually kind of nice to have that balance where
• 20:37
  it's like I can throw this on.
• 20:39
  I'm not going to wear it when it's a hundred degrees.
• 20:41
  Right.
• 20:41
  But it would be really, really nice when it's, you know, Watkins Glen in October
• 20:45
  and it's 30 degrees in the morning.
• 20:46
  That would be really good underneath the suit.
• 20:48
  And this is my warning with that is, you know, my answer is always going
• 20:51
  to be wear the suit all the time.
• 20:53
  Oh, absolutely.
• 20:53
  Right.
• 20:54
  And that's, that's the right answer.
• 20:55
  But I'm also realistic.
• 20:56
  And not everyone's gonna wear the suit all the time or want a suit.
• 20:59
  And sometimes people feel awkward wearing their suit around the pad because you
• 21:02
  look kind of just pretentious, right?
• 21:04
  Is the word I wanna use.
• 21:05
  And that's the culture thing that we're trying to change, right?
• 21:07
  Because people wanna say, not to digress, but to your point, people will go, well,
• 21:11
  it's just a de I don't need a suit.
• 21:13
  Right?
• 21:13
  And I know we touched on it earlier, well, I can wear jeans
• 21:16
  in a hoodie and it'll be fine.
• 21:17
  That physics, that it, it, you know, that wall.
• 21:19
  That fire, that exploding gas line, or that, that horrible incident, God
• 21:23
  forbid, doesn't care if you're at an F1 race or if you're driving your HPD.
• 21:29
  And straight cotton's only good for what, three seconds or something like that?
• 21:31
  So, yeah.
• 21:32
  Which doesn't seem like a lot of time, but in that instance
• 21:35
  is actually a lot of time.
• 21:37
  Absolutely.
• 21:37
  Recommendation would always be wear a suit.
• 21:39
  However, I'm realistic and I want you to wear something rather than nothing.
• 21:42
  So if you're gonna wear a long sleeve t shirt, might as well
• 21:45
  wear a long sleeve Nomex t shirt.
• 21:46
  Yeah.
• 21:46
  It's a little bit heavier.
• 21:48
  but we'll actually give you some form of protection, right?
• 21:51
  That product that I showed you that's coming out is, uh, it's
• 21:54
  actually at testing right now.
• 21:55
  So we're getting the exact thermal properties of it.
• 21:57
  So we can give you an idea of the exact timeline.
• 22:01
  So for instance, our suit, our first suit, we call it the D R T W O C, right?
• 22:06
  What does that mean?
• 22:07
  There's been an ongoing joke inside of our, of our company between our designers
• 22:12
  and people that are thought process.
• 22:13
  And that's don't reinvent the wheel.
• 22:16
  That's awesome.
• 22:17
  And don't reinvent the wheel, it's DRTW.
• 22:19
  So when you start seeing some of the product line with DRTW on it,
• 22:22
  those are our, I don't want to say some of our front line or first line
• 22:25
  stuff, but it's certainly the idea is that it's like, listen, we don't
• 22:28
  need to be super creative or exotic.
• 22:31
  It's what we're doing.
• 22:32
  We just need to provide a product that exists, that's going to work,
• 22:36
  and that's going to be good quality and more affordable so we can
• 22:38
  put it in the hands of everybody.
• 22:40
  Right?
• 22:41
  Don't reinvent the wheel.
• 22:42
  An OC actually stands for coveralls or overcovers, which if you look at FIA
• 22:47
  testing, the suits are categorized as OCs.
• 22:51
  Eventually we will have our own product.
• 22:52
  That's FIA certified.
• 22:54
  We actually already have product that's FIA certified, but we're going
• 22:57
  to also be starting to make that in house and get stuff recertified.
• 23:02
  So even though some of the stuff we make is in house, some of it's
• 23:04
  not, it's still made to our specs.
• 23:06
  So we like to say, you know, American designed, most of it's made overseas,
• 23:10
  which is fine because Nomex is only made and actually, uh, sewn together
• 23:14
  in about four places in the world.
• 23:15
  So just about all the big name brands and even the smaller guys,
• 23:19
  we're all getting the stuff from the same From the same people.
• 23:22
  So don't be fooled.
• 23:23
  FIA is really easy to find that out as uh, each one of the products has a
• 23:28
  serial number that you'll see on it.
• 23:29
  We'll just go on the technical sheet and they'll tell you who made it.
• 23:32
  So it could be brand ABC, but it's made by XYZ.
• 23:35
  Yeah.
• 23:36
  And those three or four brands are using the same stuff.
• 23:38
  Well, let's talk a little bit about design decisions.
• 23:40
  I got to see the head socks there, balaclavas that you have as prototypes.
• 23:45
  And I think we both agree.
• 23:46
  They're a little bit on the thick side, especially.
• 23:48
  for hot weather.
• 23:49
  But one of the things you showed me was kind of a previous
• 23:52
  prototype and the new prototype.
• 23:55
  And the big difference was so the stitching small details
• 23:58
  can't take credit for it.
• 24:00
  I know some other companies are doing it.
• 24:01
  But to their point, it's like if we have something that is working better
• 24:06
  than what's out there, let's use it.
• 24:07
  Now I'm not saying we're stealing designs, that's not what I'm saying, but we're
• 24:10
  taking inspiration to seeing what the trends are because we are small and we
• 24:14
  can be flexible in what we're doing.
• 24:16
  So, why is the stitching different?
• 24:18
  Well, it's not different in how it's constructed.
• 24:20
  You saw that.
• 24:21
  But, the example you're making is, these hoods normally traditionally
• 24:25
  have a center stitch down to what would be the middle of your forehead.
• 24:29
  Mm hmm.
• 24:30
  But you wouldn't think anything of it, right?
• 24:32
  But when you're wearing a helmet for 30, 40 minutes or an hour at a
• 24:34
  time, That's weight that's sitting on that stitch that's now driving
• 24:38
  into the middle of your forehead.
• 24:39
  It can be uncomfortable, especially as it goes from, you know, essentially,
• 24:43
  your center of your brow all the way back and over to the crown
• 24:45
  to the base of your neck, right?
• 24:46
  So now you've got a huge pressure point, and it's uncomfortable.
• 24:49
  So ours don't have the center, uh, forehead line.
• 24:52
  And it also has the circular stitch around the top.
• 24:54
  So when you put that on, which we've got to have you put it on, not only
• 24:57
  is it not going to get scrunched by the helmet, but But it actually acts
• 25:00
  as kind of a fitted cap that sits on your crown and keeps it in place.
• 25:04
  Because another thing that we learn when we're wearing these Belk Lavas
• 25:07
  or Nomex hoods under our helmets, especially when we start getting sweated
• 25:10
  or anything, they start shifting.
• 25:12
  A little sticky and some areas will shift and others won't.
• 25:17
  This kind of acts as like a cup that stays solid on your head.
• 25:20
  So we're really excited about that.
• 25:22
  It uses generally the same material as the undergarments we were just talking
• 25:25
  about, which is going to get tweaked and we're dropping the weight on that.
• 25:28
  The reason why we're going a little heavier to start is because a little bit
• 25:31
  heavier stuff is going to have a higher thermal protective property, so the TPP,
• 25:35
  which gives you the timeline of how many seconds until the second of your wheels.
• 25:39
  Don't reinvent the wheel.
• 25:40
  Start simple.
• 25:41
  Get a product that's going to work.
• 25:42
  Then, let's get more exotic and do the lighter stuff that's
• 25:45
  going to be more expensive.
• 25:46
  But it will be lighter, it's easier to wear.
• 25:47
  Now, why do I feel that way?
• 25:49
  Because for the DE person who's doing 25 to 40 minute sessions at a time,
• 25:53
  you can take the stuff off in between.
• 25:55
  You're going to have an hour and a half usually between sessions.
• 25:57
  You know, you're not running hours at a time.
• 25:59
  So this may not be for the endurance guy right now, but we
• 26:02
  have that product coming shortly.
• 26:03
  But, this is the, it's a little bit cheaper to make.
• 26:06
  As counter intuitive as it sounds, using more material.
• 26:09
  We're not reinventing the wheel, we're using stuff that's been proven
• 26:11
  and out there for 50 or 60 years.
• 26:13
  In, uh, new designs, in ways that are, uh, efficient.
• 26:17
  It's making things easier to put in the hands of everybody.
• 26:20
  And in a way that it's safer than looking back.
• 26:23
  I think there's also the other side of that coin, which is, there's some
• 26:26
  old designs that have gone away, and I hear it all the time, people lament.
• 26:28
  Do you remember when they used to make blocks?
• 26:30
  And then they don't anymore because of maybe manufacturing or costs or whatever.
• 26:34
  And people want some of those older styles back because they were either
• 26:37
  more comfortable or more stylish, or they might not not be up to today's standards.
• 26:42
  But that's just like when we talk about the retro cars coming back, it's you
• 26:45
  take that old design and you modernize it so that it meets all the current
• 26:48
  specs, but then it appeals to the market that's interested in purchasing.
• 26:51
  So we're finding that with gloves.
• 26:53
  And especially boots.
• 26:54
  Right?
• 26:55
  So, I mean, just fashion in general is secular.
• 26:58
  We have the issue.
• 26:59
  People like the older style, simpler shoes.
• 27:02
  Yeah.
• 27:02
  Right.
• 27:02
  I mean, Chuck Taylors and the like, are always coming back
• 27:05
  every 10, 15 years as fashionable.
• 27:07
  And then we were just talking about the Pilates, but that's coming back
• 27:10
  around with even the Nomex shoes.
• 27:12
  Cause for a while we went with, you know, last few years, like all the rage
• 27:15
  has been all the high end leather shoes.
• 27:16
  Yeah.
• 27:17
  OMP has got a ratcheting Shoelace, which reminds me of some of the basketball
• 27:22
  shoes from the early nineties.
• 27:24
  I mean, yeah, that is trick.
• 27:26
  But they're $400.
• 27:27
  I can tie my shoelace, guys.
• 27:29
  . I can pump it.
• 27:30
  It didn't make that the truth.
• 27:32
  And does it give me any more protection than what our roughly $100?
• 27:37
  Well, you have to look at what that ratcheting mechanism is made of.
• 27:40
  Did you just introduce some plastic?
• 27:41
  Yes.
• 27:42
  So doesn't have the TPP as as the lace does?
• 27:44
  Absolutely.
• 27:45
  And and not to knock on Cool shirt.
• 27:47
  I don't know their testings and everything, and I know they just came
• 27:50
  out with an SF5 version, but the idea of having essentially an Under Armour
• 27:54
  type polyester skin tight garbage bag with water tubes on you is like
• 27:59
  probably a really bad idea because that's gonna melt on your skin.
• 28:03
  I've never really bought off on that idea and I know I'm guilty of wearing Under
• 28:08
  Armour under my suit before and things like that just because it's sometimes
• 28:11
  some days you're like it's so friggin hot.
• 28:12
  Sure.
• 28:13
  You know, that kind of deal, but you know, we were talking about it with
• 28:16
  one of our guys even earlier today where it was like, you know, I don't
• 28:19
  understand people that, you know, can get in the car and it's 140 degrees
• 28:22
  and they're not wearing a cool suit.
• 28:23
  Well, it's like, it's acceptable risk at that point.
• 28:26
  If you're comfortable wearing that.
• 28:27
  That apparatus that has all that, you know, plastic in it and
• 28:31
  elastin and, you know, polyester and et cetera, then that's fine.
• 28:34
  But if you're not, you're like, well, I'm going to wear no, and, and, and let
• 28:39
  me expand on, on your point to maybe some people who don't understand this.
• 28:42
  right?
• 28:43
  So the polyester at a certain temperature, which is not one that's
• 28:46
  going to actually hurt you like a flame.
• 28:48
  But if you're just hot, that material will start breaking down and melting and it'll
• 28:52
  actually start sticking to your skin.
• 28:54
  It'll bond.
• 28:54
  Yeah.
• 28:55
  So what happens?
• 28:55
  You need a sensory skin grafts, right?
• 28:57
  Cause it's going to start getting stick and ripping and tearing at the skin
• 29:00
  with no flame present, just mere heat.
• 29:02
  It's gonna start melting.
• 29:03
  So let me give you a quick story.
• 29:04
  I'm out of fire.
• 29:05
  I wear on the raw armor t shirts and the polyester type t shirts.
• 29:08
  I'm wearing one right now.
• 29:09
  Oftentimes, I'm wearing one, and I get a fire call.
• 29:12
  Off I go.
• 29:13
  Now I'm in a raging fire inside of a house.
• 29:14
  I have this underneath my turnout gear.
• 29:16
  My turnout gear is much like a Nomex suit, only a little thicker,
• 29:19
  heavier, better for that purpose.
• 29:21
  What's the idea here?
• 29:22
  When you're in an issue in a car and there's a fire, rarely
• 29:25
  are flames licking at your skin.
• 29:27
  Right.
• 29:27
  Right?
• 29:28
  You are now a hot pocket.
• 29:30
  You're being baked from the inside.
• 29:31
  So the majority of the burns that we're talking about, are steam burns.
• 29:35
  Right?
• 29:36
  So it's all the moisture in the suit on your body and everything.
• 29:39
  So you're cooking from the inside and you're getting steam burns, which are
• 29:41
  probably worse than like flame burns.
• 29:44
  So when you hear so many protection from second degree burns, it's
• 29:47
  because of the different barriers and layers like the vapor barriers.
• 29:50
  And we can go, I can go into a whole lot of the science of it, but just
• 29:53
  know that that's really a different.
• 29:55
  If you want to say the material of the pool shirt was, I am not.
• 29:58
  Proficient on their product, right?
• 30:00
  I don't want to sit here and knock it I know they have an SFI product
• 30:03
  as well, and I know it works well But we're still talking about a plastic
• 30:06
  material direct or a neoprene or vinyl or any of that is gonna be an issue
• 30:10
  So My point was, I'm in a raging fire.
• 30:12
  I'm putting out a fire.
• 30:13
  I come back to the station, the shirt's ruined and it's starting to stick to me.
• 30:16
  Luckily, it wasn't so bad that I couldn't just pick it off and was
• 30:18
  like, Oh, that's inconvenient.
• 30:19
  Kind of like ripping a band aid off.
• 30:20
  But it was scary because if I was in there more, I was fine.
• 30:23
  It's not like I was exposed to anything.
• 30:25
  I was just really hot.
• 30:27
  So the suit the same thing.
• 30:28
  The race suit is going to be the same thing, especially
• 30:30
  with everything underneath.
• 30:30
  Now, again, take the material aspect of the cool shirt away.
• 30:34
  Maybe the plastic tubes and all that.
• 30:36
  You're putting water, lots of it, underneath your suit.
• 30:39
  So eventually it's going to boil and steam.
• 30:42
  And if any of those pipes crack, you're introducing fuel for a steam burn.
• 30:46
  Yeah.
• 30:47
  I don't want to do that.
• 30:47
  There's other ways to cool yourself.
• 30:49
  Again, if you're only in the car 30 40 minutes at a time and you're
• 30:51
  having those kind of heat issues, you're There's more to it than that.
• 30:54
  Maybe we talk about some physical fitness, maybe we talk about some ducting systems.
• 30:59
  There's other ways around it that I think are safer, less complicated,
• 31:01
  and certainly less expensive.
• 31:02
  Now, that's not to knock on a product, I know a lot of people like it, I'm
• 31:05
  not overly familiar with it, but just from a safety standpoint, with
• 31:09
  my experience, I look at it and go.
• 31:11
  We're introducing problems.
• 31:12
  You want to be cool?
• 31:13
  I get it.
• 31:13
  I still think you should wear a suit all the time, but if not,
• 31:16
  we'll round back, we'll circle back in a little conversation.
• 31:18
  I think we have an in between product with the undergarments.
• 31:20
  And just like we were talking about before, I mean, I have I've been looking
• 31:24
  personally at Nomex pants and they're harder and harder to find anymore.
• 31:28
  Everybody wants to sell you a full suit and I'm like, you know, it would be nice
• 31:30
  just to have the pants sometimes where then I can change my shirts throughout
• 31:34
  the day, but my pants are consistent.
• 31:35
  Right?
• 31:36
  I know that there are some brands out there.
• 31:38
  They're not necessarily super cheap, but on the same token, you're like,
• 31:42
  I'm going to pay what for what?
• 31:43
  Are you interested to see, you know, maybe products like that
• 31:46
  coming on board for PMX as well?
• 31:47
  So PMX has obviously the undergarments, which is some of the shirts we just
• 31:51
  talked about that you can wear.
• 31:52
  On its own, as its own layer or an underlayer.
• 31:55
  We have the same exact material in the pant material.
• 31:58
  They're almost like sweatpants.
• 31:59
  I tell you what, they're comfortable.
• 32:00
  I'd wear them around the house.
• 32:02
  Yeah, they do look very comfortable, as a matter of fact.
• 32:04
  You know, if you wear them around the house like lounge on the couch.
• 32:06
  Well, if the house burns down, I'll be okay.
• 32:08
  So yeah, we can do jackets and shirts independently.
• 32:11
  We like to focus on the suit, because that's what we recommend.
• 32:14
  Complete set, the system.
• 32:15
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:16
  But, if a customer came to us and said, Hey, I want this.
• 32:20
  Even if it's not something that we regularly do, We can do it.
• 32:23
  Because we're flexible and everything.
• 32:25
  So the big focus of PMX the brand, is custom.
• 32:29
  Our distinction is that you can buy something off the rack and it
• 32:33
  may or may not be what you want.
• 32:34
  It might be close, but you can get something for within the same price,
• 32:38
  probably 10 percent either way, custom tailored with your design,
• 32:42
  with your logos, with whatever you want at the same price point.
• 32:45
  And it's the same safety or more and same quality or more.
• 32:49
  It could be the same weight or less, which is great.
• 32:52
  Or, Hey, I can't find these pants.
• 32:54
  I want a no max set of pants.
• 32:56
  And I don't mean yellow.
• 32:57
  I mean, just like a drag racer would have a jacket.
• 33:00
  Exactly.
• 33:01
  Exactly.
• 33:01
  You can do that.
• 33:02
  Maybe I don't want the drag racer version.
• 33:04
  Why wouldn't I want the drag racer version?
• 33:06
  Well, the SF5 for road racing is 3.
• 33:09
  2a slash 5.
• 33:10
  That gives you a thermal protective property of 19.
• 33:13
  Drag racing is like 10 or 15.
• 33:16
  It's a lot heavier, a lot heavier material.
• 33:19
  So if you're talking about Hey, I want these pants because I want them
• 33:21
  to be lighter and more breathable.
• 33:23
  You don't want to go to buy the drag racing ones because you're
• 33:25
  going to be about almost three, two to three times the weight.
• 33:27
  Like they're going to be really heavy, but you wear them for, if
• 33:31
  you actually need that kind of pants, 10 seconds or less, right?
• 33:34
  You're in the car, you're staging, you go make your pass, 10 seconds, whatnot.
• 33:37
  You're out of it.
• 33:38
  You're maybe in them for 10 minutes at a time.
• 33:41
  It's fine.
• 33:41
  You don't need that kind of breathability or maneuverability either.
• 33:44
  Cause they're going to be stiffer because they're just bulky.
• 33:46
  I mean, we all remember.
• 33:47
  We're wearing our huge down jackets in the eighties, we can't put them on now.
• 33:52
  Yeah, exactly.
• 33:52
  Another Christmas story, right?
• 33:53
  It's pretty similar to that.
• 33:54
  Now the nicer stuff, certainly not, but it's nicer stuff and it costs
• 33:58
  more money and that may not be where a lot of people are who want to get
• 34:02
  into the hobby and it's better to have some safety equipment that's quality
• 34:06
  than some of the higher end stuff.
• 34:07
  Yeah.
• 34:08
  And I mean, my compromise right now personally is actually, I moved
• 34:11
  to cargo Dickies because they are, they're not as heavy as a jean.
• 34:16
  They're not nearly like the drag pants, but the one big thing that sold
• 34:19
  me on them is they are breathable.
• 34:21
  They are cotton like material, you know, that kind of thing.
• 34:23
  So they're good enough for DE, but it's cargo pockets.
• 34:27
  Because if I'm around the paddock and I want to carry my tire, you know,
• 34:31
  my tire gauge or a wrench, you know, that 10 millimeter that I'm always
• 34:34
  losing, having pockets is awesome.
• 34:36
  Right?
• 34:36
  So I got, I got two points for you.
• 34:38
  One, I'm going to breathe with you.
• 34:39
  And the second one, I'm going to blow your mind.
• 34:40
  So one, before I got wiser than I am now, I would wear.
• 34:44
  Also, Dickies, just work pants for why I'm wearing the jeans, because they're
• 34:48
  twill, so they're heavier, they're cotton.
• 34:51
  Uh, it's not gonna be like a gym pant or shorts that's gonna
• 34:55
  be polyester and burn on me.
• 34:57
  Or 5'11 tactical pants, because they're a similar type, like khaki.
• 35:00
  Like BBUs, right?
• 35:01
  Yeah.
• 35:01
  Yeah, kinda, or even just their solid ones, like, A little bit heavier,
• 35:05
  still very flexible, not too heavy, but breathable, but I know it can take
• 35:08
  a little bit of a beating, but at the end of the day, it's not what it is.
• 35:11
  The second point is, the fact that you can get custom whatever you want.
• 35:15
  I can get you cargo pants in Nomex, Eric.
• 35:18
  Ah, I like it.
• 35:19
  We'll make you, uh, Some cargo pants suits.
• 35:22
  So something that we've been doing, we've been talking about some of the
• 35:24
  race teams as they want crew suits, but also be able to drive with them.
• 35:27
  So what does that mean?
• 35:28
  So it's going to be not as light as just a crew suit, which is to cover all
• 35:31
  from contamination, but also fireproof.
• 35:33
  But these guys are holding the radios all the time.
• 35:35
  So we've been, we're like, well, why don't we make like a belt loop?
• 35:38
  Cross your back in Nomex material that you can hook your radios to,
• 35:42
  like you would in your pockets.
• 35:43
  And you're like, oh my god, that'd be awesome.
• 35:45
  I don't have to carry it around or, you know, I have that on my crew suit,
• 35:47
  but I don't have it on my race suit.
• 35:48
  Well, why not?
• 35:49
  I mean, we're talking about maybe two ounces of material.
• 35:52
  Is that really going to make or break what's too heavy or too
• 35:55
  light when you're sitting down?
• 35:56
  No.
• 35:57
  So let's do it.
• 35:58
  You want cargo pockets on your Nomex suit?
• 36:01
  Sure.
• 36:02
  Well, you know, the big ask, the big ask is, can you make one leg
• 36:05
  black and the other one white?
• 36:06
  And if anybody's seen my car, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
• 36:09
  We can do that.
• 36:10
  We can do whatever you want.
• 36:11
  We can put logos on it.
• 36:12
  Yeah.
• 36:12
  So if you want to do four different limbs of colors.
• 36:16
  I got you.
• 36:17
  We have a whole rainbow on it.
• 36:19
  And you have a different process for doing that as well, right?
• 36:22
  Mm hmm.
• 36:23
  So not only do we have the traditional style of, uh, different
• 36:26
  coloring, where each color is essentially its own material.
• 36:29
  The typical white, blue, black, red.
• 36:31
  Sure.
• 36:31
  And you think about how it's done.
• 36:32
  Like, so each color is really its own material that's
• 36:35
  stitched into another color.
• 36:36
  So it's hard to do.
• 36:37
  So, some of our manufacturers, super high tech.
• 36:40
  We're the only ones in the U.
• 36:41
  S.
• 36:41
  who do it.
• 36:42
  If you're familiar with sublimation, it's essentially like 3D printing.
• 36:44
  Right.
• 36:45
  for t shirts and a lot of the carding suits.
• 36:48
  The issue with that is you kind of need like a certain type of material
• 36:51
  for it to take correctly and not run or be smooth or anything like that.
• 36:55
  Nomex is not that kind of material.
• 36:57
  We use a manufacturer.
• 36:59
  They're awesome.
• 36:59
  They make their own material.
• 37:01
  It has the same chemical properties essentially as Nomex
• 37:03
  as far as being fire retardant.
• 37:05
  It's lighter.
• 37:06
  It's actually stretchy, which is great.
• 37:08
  So one of their products can stretch up to 20%.
• 37:11
  So as you see the 360 degree elastic arm cuffs that we have for the shoulders
• 37:16
  and stretch panels in the back.
• 37:18
  While that's great, it's a little bit lower thermal protective property.
• 37:20
  They figured out something in the middle.
• 37:22
  So it's, it's had that, that stretchy, but also protected.
• 37:25
  But the material, because it's a little bit more exotic and not Nomex.
• 37:29
  You can actually supplement on you can 3d print which means that suit
• 37:33
  itself is FIA certified, right?
• 37:36
  But it's a blank suit which means because you can supplement it.
• 37:38
  It's a white blank suit You can put any design you want in any which way any
• 37:42
  color As long as you can get a graphic design and make it We can put it on the
• 37:47
  panels, make them wind up and print it.
• 37:48
  Why is that huge for FIA?
• 37:51
  One, that's huge, that's awesome because it's groundbreaking because
• 37:53
  you don't have to worry about cutting together each pieces and patching it
• 37:56
  together and making the colors you want.
• 37:57
  But for FIA testing, it's a little bit different than SFI testing.
• 38:00
  And we're actually going to have a podcast about this as well, the differences
• 38:03
  and the similarities between the two.
• 38:06
  FIA, your design matters, right?
• 38:09
  So your construction matters.
• 38:10
  So if I make a suit and I patch it together horizontally, I get that tested,
• 38:15
  which is expensive and time consuming, especially as FIA SFI takes about a
• 38:20
  month and it's about a 10th of the cost.
• 38:22
  Theoretically, SFI is more difficult for thermal protective property testing.
• 38:26
  It's actually a higher standard than the FIA.
• 38:28
  We'll get into that later.
• 38:29
  I have a suit, I'm constructing it horizontally, like my patches
• 38:33
  are horizontal, so I got strips and they're going up and down,
• 38:36
  I'm making horizontal stripes.
• 38:37
  That's one suit, I can get that passed.
• 38:39
  Okay, great, no problem.
• 38:40
  I take the same exact material, same exact material, and I stitch it vertically.
• 38:46
  I now have to get it retested and in its own design.
• 38:49
  It's the same exact material.
• 38:51
  But your stitch counts are different, in different directions.
• 38:53
  It could be the same stitch counts, it's just put together differently.
• 38:56
  Yeah.
• 38:56
  According to the FIA.
• 38:57
  That's a different suit and you have to get it recertified.
• 39:00
  So what does that mean?
• 39:01
  That means that you can't get those different designs because
• 39:03
  manufacturers aren't necessarily going to go out and test all that.
• 39:05
  That's why a lot of the FYA suits, there's only really four or five designs out
• 39:08
  there, or a company only has one or two.
• 39:11
  Some of the bigger ones maybe have three or four.
• 39:12
  Almost like crash testing some of the exotic cars.
• 39:14
  They're not going to do all of them.
• 39:16
  Whereas SFI doesn't matter.
• 39:19
  The construction per se is the material.
• 39:21
  So if I have the same suit, using the same exact material, the same exact
• 39:25
  construction processes and layers, I stitch one horizontally, I stitch
• 39:28
  another one vertically, you're fine.
• 39:30
  So that's why the SFI suits, which actually have a higher thermal
• 39:34
  protective property testing, are able to have a little more freedom.
• 39:38
  So that's why a lot of the custom suits are SFI and not FIA.
• 39:41
  But this material, the sublimation is a game changer because you
• 39:45
  get essentially a blank suit.
• 39:47
  Whatever you want to do, it's already FIA certified because we're not
• 39:51
  changing the construction of the suit.
• 39:52
  And you were saying that right now you're starting to see that in the
• 39:55
  carting world more than anywhere else.
• 39:57
  We're starting to see some of that process come through and for the geeks
• 39:59
  and chemists and everybody that's out there, they'll correct me if I'm wrong.
• 40:03
  But if I remember high school chemistry correctly, dye sublimation is a
• 40:06
  process of going from a solid to a gas without first becoming a liquid.
• 40:11
  So it's a very interesting process, how they do that.
• 40:13
  They're basically smoking it on.
• 40:14
  Correct.
• 40:15
  Right.
• 40:15
  That's why the material, right.
• 40:18
  So to be able to accept that type.
• 40:20
  So that's why you see some of the polyester t shirts that
• 40:25
  have a crew shirts or pulling shirt, high tech stuff like that.
• 40:29
  Some cottons can do it.
• 40:31
  That's why it's more popular in carding.
• 40:32
  Cause those carding suits.
• 40:34
  These aren't Nomex.
• 40:35
  Those crew shirts are not Nomex.
• 40:38
  Nomex is not a material that likes to do that.
• 40:41
  This stuff isn't Nomex.
• 40:42
  And it tests as good for thermal protection.
• 40:45
  That's interesting.
• 40:46
  So it's awesome.
• 40:47
  Because the process otherwise has always been, uh, what is it, direct
• 40:50
  transfer, there's embroidery obviously, and then there's a screen print,
• 40:55
  and I think there's like a thermal transfer or something like that.
• 40:57
  The process of making printed material has been the same for Yeah.
• 41:03
  It's basically next generation thermal.
• 41:05
  Yeah.
• 41:06
  Yeah.
• 41:06
  Yeah.
• 41:07
  I'm not a chemist.
• 41:08
  I've seen it work.
• 41:09
  I look forward to going there.
• 41:11
  I believe before 2022 I'll be in the factory doing the tour.
• 41:15
  So I guess my question is, what does the fabric feel like?
• 41:17
  Is it going to feel like those parkas you were talking about from the eighties?
• 41:21
  Is it smooth like that?
• 41:22
  Or does it actually feel like a cotton or whatever?
• 41:24
  So it's got some texture to it.
• 41:25
  I mean, it's still, it can be a coarser fabric.
• 41:28
  So even the shiny Nomex that you felt, still has some, you know, it's not slick.
• 41:32
  It doesn't, it doesn't feel like a polyester, right.
• 41:35
  But, uh, we'll have one soon.
• 41:36
  You'll see it.
• 41:37
  Yeah.
• 41:38
  It still feels like a traditional material.
• 41:40
  So I want to switch back actually to the undergarments and the shoes for a second.
• 41:43
  So are you doing socks as well?
• 41:45
  Cause that's always, that's something that's always a
• 41:46
  piece that people forget about.
• 41:48
  Sure.
• 41:48
  So we're working on socks.
• 41:49
  Unfortunately, there's a world shortage of the material to make
• 41:54
  socks, believe it or not, because the cuffings are a slightly different
• 41:59
  material than the regular Nomex, right?
• 42:01
  So that's stretchy material to make the heel, right?
• 42:04
  To make the cuffs, to make the heel, to make the band that keeps it up.
• 42:09
  Yeah.
• 42:10
  Remember, traditionally, That's polyester in today's world.
• 42:14
  The last 30 years, you know, if you got old wool socks, that's great.
• 42:17
  But even then the newer ones have the bands at the top.
• 42:19
  Old school socks didn't have that.
• 42:21
  It was just tight material.
• 42:22
  And after a while they stretched out because it was just cotton.
• 42:24
  And they fall down and you pick them up.
• 42:25
  They fall down.
• 42:25
  Yeah.
• 42:25
  And then you get rid of them, right?
• 42:27
  Well, I don't want my Nomex socks that, you know, that are, you
• 42:30
  know, not 6, but 30 to do that, you know, after a few sessions.
• 42:35
  So the newer material is still Nomex.
• 42:37
  It has some elasticity to it.
• 42:40
  But because it's a different blend Getting it shipped around the world
• 42:43
  has been quite difficult But we do plan on doing something and the reason
• 42:46
  I bring up socks and shoes is Because I'm gonna use a fake statistic here
• 42:50
  80 percent of the cars you see at the track or any track Realistically, we're
• 42:55
  gonna be front engine cars except for your 911 They're mid engine exotics
• 42:59
  and you know lotuses and whatnot.
• 43:01
  So what's the first thing closest to the fire?
• 43:04
  Sure is your feet?
• 43:05
  Yeah, right a lot of protectors needed.
• 43:07
  Also, if you have a gutted car and you've taken a I've been in cars where I've
• 43:11
  melted the soles of my shoes, which is fine, but the rest of the shoe is not.
• 43:16
  So, if it was catching a fire, that would be an issue for second degree burns.
• 43:20
  Shoes are important.
• 43:21
  For the most part though, you see a lot of people wearing, they'll be wearing jeans,
• 43:24
  but they'll be wearing driving shoes.
• 43:26
  Not because they're worried about the thermal protection, but they're
• 43:28
  like, Oh, they're thinner and they make me drive better or that.
• 43:31
  Same thing with gloves.
• 43:32
  They feel the wheel better.
• 43:33
  Sure.
• 43:33
  I appreciate that.
• 43:34
  You're not wrong.
• 43:35
  I'm just glad it's no Max and you're doing something right.
• 43:38
  So you might as well make the leap eventually.
• 43:40
  I mean, if you're going out of your way to wear a thicker pair of pants
• 43:44
  and anything, you know, a race suit with some cotton boxers and a t shirt
• 43:51
  underneath, or even a lot of guys don't wear any shirt underneath, which is fine.
• 43:55
  Just the more you sweat.
• 43:56
  And the more that gets in the suit, remember that the moisture is
• 43:58
  really the issue that causes burns.
• 44:00
  And don't forget you gotta put that moisture back in too, right?
• 44:02
  So don't forget our hydration episode.
• 44:04
  Keep it clean.
• 44:06
  Literally, I mean like wash it is a big thing if you're wearing
• 44:09
  minimal clothing underneath.
• 44:10
  Do you recommend the molecule stuff?
• 44:12
  It works.
• 44:13
  It works a lot of times, it's just really gentle wash, you know, try
• 44:18
  not to use a super strong detergent.
• 44:23
  What's nice is, if it's actual nomex, the thread, the fibrous product
• 44:28
  doesn't lose it's fire resistance.
• 44:31
  There's a lot of the one layer treated cottons out there that
• 44:35
  are cheaper, they do lose your fire resistance as you wash them.
• 44:39
  Which is also why they get softer too.
• 44:40
  Correct.
• 44:41
  So a lot of people out there with like quote unquote one layer suits.
• 44:44
  Well there's really not a lot of one layer nomex suits.
• 44:46
  They're one layer cotton treated suits.
• 44:48
  I mean, if you wash them more than a handful of times, they're
• 44:51
  basically just a cotton coverall.
• 44:54
  Right, exactly.
• 44:54
  At that point, your heavy denim farmer's coverall Oh, you could
• 44:58
  have bought dickies at that point.
• 44:59
  Tractor supply.
• 45:00
  It's probably going to be more resistant because it's thicker and it's thicker.
• 45:02
  It's a twill material, which is, which can withstand more damage.
• 45:06
  Now, I think of all the things we've talked about, you know, you were
• 45:08
  talking about compromises and whatnot, shirts and pants and even gloves.
• 45:12
  You can, you can compromise on style and feel as long as they fit right.
• 45:16
  But I think shoes is always going to be a huge debate.
• 45:19
  It's kind of funny because, you know, as guys.
• 45:21
  I don't think we're nearly as picky as, let's say, the females would be
• 45:25
  in general, where it's like, you know, 60, 000 different styles of shoes.
• 45:27
  Guys, it's like, I got, uh, four pairs of black and a brown, you know what I mean?
• 45:31
  We kind of don't care.
• 45:32
  But when it comes to driving shoes, the shoe is now on the other foot.
• 45:36
  We get super picky about the driving shoes.
• 45:39
  And I will tell you, I've had a lot of different ones over the years.
• 45:43
  And I'm going back to what you said before in that like
• 45:46
  Chucks are great driving shoes.
• 45:48
  You can pick them up for, you know, 30, 40 bucks at Target or whatever.
• 45:52
  Samba's are like my go to driving shoe because they are super comfortable and
• 45:56
  I can wear them all day in the paddock.
• 45:58
  But then it's like I used to wear Adidas Superstars on the shell tops before I
• 46:01
  got wise, I keep saying that, before I got wise I'd wear the shell tops.
• 46:05
  I have my pair of, uh, Altamas, or as we like to call them,
• 46:08
  the prescription chucks.
• 46:11
  They're so hard.
• 46:13
  You know, they're sitting right there.
• 46:14
  I have a pair too, and they're great.
• 46:16
  Especially on a rainy track, they're the best shoe ever.
• 46:18
  I'm the one to blame for that, for that fad.
• 46:20
  But, um But there, but that goes back to the point.
• 46:22
  I feel like I'm bringing six pairs of shoes with me to a track day because
• 46:27
  I got to worry about the weather.
• 46:28
  I got to worry about it.
• 46:29
  My coaching, which car am I driving?
• 46:32
  It's like a big thing.
• 46:33
  You've unintentionally have stumbled onto a secret that I'm working
• 46:36
  on and I'll share it with you.
• 46:37
  Is that you got a universal shoe?
• 46:39
  I am trying.
• 46:41
  We were trying to figure out a way to manufacture.
• 46:46
  Chuck Taylor.
• 46:46
  That'd be super cool.
• 46:48
  Here's the issue with that.
• 46:49
  High rise or low rise?
• 46:50
  Here's the issue with that.
• 46:51
  There we go.
• 46:52
  Everyone wants a low rise.
• 46:54
  Unfortunately, if you look at the SFI regulations, they have to
• 46:58
  be at a certain height relative to the length of the big wheel.
• 47:02
  So even the lowest you could do is theoretically a mid
• 47:05
  rise to be SFI certified.
• 47:07
  However, because of the thickness of the sole and some of the other
• 47:10
  issues, it's not necessarily like us to sell a product that's not certified.
• 47:14
  Yeah.
• 47:15
  If I told you, Hey, listen, I'm either going to wear a Nomex shoe.
• 47:19
  I'm going to wear a Nike shoe.
• 47:20
  My version of Chuck Taylor, right?
• 47:22
  Because I'm going to be flying around the paddock, right?
• 47:24
  Well, if you're committed to wearing not a certified shoe, at least let
• 47:29
  it be not a certified shoe and the material that can actually help you.
• 47:31
  Yeah.
• 47:32
  Right.
• 47:32
  We are thinking about and in the design phase and trying to
• 47:36
  figure out how to get it right.
• 47:37
  A Nomex Chuck Taylor essentially.
• 47:40
  So yeah, we're looking into it.
• 47:42
  Why?
• 47:42
  Same idea as the undergarment shirt where it's like, Hey, you can use
• 47:47
  it in conjunction in the system.
• 47:48
  You can use it without, and it'd be better than nothing.
• 47:51
  Cause if you're just going to wear a t shirt, well, wear this t shirt instead.
• 47:55
  But it's not wasted money.
• 47:56
  So if you want to use it as an undergarment, you can do that as well.
• 47:59
  I think this idea of shoe works.
• 48:02
  The other idea that we have, or we're Also in the design phase of trying to
• 48:05
  figure it out is a proper certified Nomex shoe that is less of a driving shoe and
• 48:12
  more of a paddock shoe, but this way you don't have to change out, right?
• 48:16
  Yeah.
• 48:16
  So when I walk around and whatnot, and actually we may have one or
• 48:20
  two of them here for you to try.
• 48:23
  And we were talking about this before we started recording.
• 48:25
  I mean, I'm right there with you because I find myself now I have an
• 48:28
  assortment of shoes, whether they're track related or otherwise, but the best
• 48:32
  shoes I found in the last two years, I have to thank my daughters for this.
• 48:36
  They picked me up a set of Pilates prototypos and I wear them all
• 48:40
  the time because I spent a lot of time behind the windshield.
• 48:43
  So not just.
• 48:44
  at the track, but for work and stuff and just the way they cut
• 48:48
  the heel and they have the tread coming down and how comfortable they
• 48:50
  are and you can heel toe in them.
• 48:52
  You know, they're comfortable in general.
• 48:53
  They're kind of like my all around go to shoe.
• 48:56
  But the problem is they're still a driving shoe.
• 48:58
  So they have that kind of pointy nose and they're swayed.
• 49:01
  And you're like, Afraid to take them anywhere, but you know, you
• 49:04
  want to wear them all the time.
• 49:05
  So it's always this huge compromise.
• 49:07
  And to your point, if you could have a Nomex rated Chuck or a Samba
• 49:11
  or something like that, then it would be like the ultimate shoe.
• 49:14
  So we're working on it.
• 49:15
  So we have, uh, I showed you some of the prototypes we have now.
• 49:19
  Believe it or not, Some of those are designed to be worn,
• 49:23
  not just around the paddock.
• 49:24
  You can get away with wearing them everywhere if you wanted to.
• 49:26
  Some of my testing has involved wearing them throughout the day, just like, My,
• 49:29
  my Sparco booties, I'd never do that.
• 49:31
  I'd ruin them in 10 minutes.
• 49:33
  Correct, and we're trying to do something where, Hey, wait a minute,
• 49:35
  we have a product that can do all this stuff, and it's still way
• 49:38
  cheaper than the designated one.
• 49:40
  I think we're on to something again.
• 49:42
  I think it's because we're flexible and we're a little bit overthinking.
• 49:45
  We're unique in that here I am telling you not to reinvent the wheel and that's
• 49:49
  some of our product, but I think shoes, you kind of have to, but on the other
• 49:53
  end, we're also thinking about how can I make this more cost effective where,
• 49:56
  you know, like, Hey, I'm going to wear the shoe everywhere because I, you know,
• 49:59
  I wear a sneaker everywhere, right?
• 50:01
  How can I combine it?
• 50:03
  As someone who instructs, you don't want to be changing shoes.
• 50:06
  I don't want to be changing shoes, but I also don't want
• 50:07
  to be uncomfortable all day.
• 50:09
  But I also have to set the example as being the safety guy.
• 50:12
  So I'm like, you know, I'm aware that a couple of weeks ago I was in West Virginia
• 50:16
  at the track, a bazillion degrees out, and I'm thinking I'm getting in the
• 50:19
  car, I should be putting my suit on.
• 50:21
  Besides the desire, I was running out of time to do that.
• 50:24
  Because I can't walk around with the suit on because it's just blistering hot.
• 50:28
  I don't care what suit you have.
• 50:30
  If you have the lightest F1 suit out there that weighs currently the lightest
• 50:33
  F1's three layer suits, 265 grams per square meter, which is ridiculously
• 50:37
  light, I'm still going to be warm walking around, especially with no shade and
• 50:41
  120 degrees and you're in the Nashville desert, so it's going to be hot, so
• 50:45
  you're going to change out of it.
• 50:46
  And then two, The lighter the suit is, the more susceptible it is to be damaged
• 50:50
  or losing its effectiveness if you're sweating in it, because now it's an Under
• 50:55
  Armour shirt that's soaked and you're not.
• 50:57
  I mean, and that's the same reason why you have to change helmets
• 50:59
  every five to ten years because your sweat breaks down the material.
• 51:03
  Sure, unless you have one of the wonderful Rue products that we sell that has
• 51:05
  interchangeable cheek pads, but other than that, but shout out to my boy.
• 51:09
  I do love their helmets.
• 51:11
  Yeah, Toto is a great guy too.
• 51:12
  He's easy to work with.
• 51:13
  So shout out to Toto.
• 51:14
  If he hears it, we should get him on the podcast.
• 51:16
  He's a very nice guy.
• 51:17
  He runs a couple of companies, Speedcoms as well.
• 51:19
  So like just sweating in it, if it's damp, it's going to lose effectiveness.
• 51:23
  It's actually you do the opposite.
• 51:24
  So if you get an issue where you're relying on the soup.
• 51:27
  It being damp worse because you're adding more moisture.
• 51:30
  You're adding more moisture to make more steam burn.
• 51:32
  So a lot of people will dip their balaclavas or hoods and like ice or
• 51:35
  water and then put it on their helmet.
• 51:37
  Try to keep it in some school.
• 51:38
  I understand the concept, which you're introducing potentially more damage.
• 51:41
  You're actually reducing the effect of quite the opposite.
• 51:44
  At that point, you'd be better off not wearing it at all.
• 51:46
  Well, and then there's the argument too that goes back to the episode
• 51:49
  we did with Ken about hydration.
• 51:51
  Make sure that your hydration regimen and everything is up to par, and
• 51:55
  then you won't nearly be as hot because you have the liquid inside,
• 52:00
  not trying to put it on yourself.
• 52:01
  If you feel like you need it during a session because it's too hot, well,
• 52:04
  the Rue Helmet has a drink to it.
• 52:05
  So, yeah.
• 52:06
  Exactly.
• 52:06
  Another shameless plug for them.
• 52:07
  But, and you can get them from us.
• 52:09
  to focus on their own stuff.
• 52:11
  Yes, absolutely.
• 52:12
  So I think what people miss out on is the fact that moisture,
• 52:16
  uh, is the essence of water.
• 52:18
  Yeah.
• 52:18
  It's really an issue.
• 52:20
  You would think of helping the fire and actually.
• 52:22
  I don't know if you like lobster or not, but when you, you know, they boil to death
• 52:27
  and that's really the burns that you get.
• 52:28
  So the burns that you get in the vehicle, like on track, it's not
• 52:32
  one where the fire is licking and burning your skin and charring it.
• 52:35
  It's where you're getting baked from the inside out.
• 52:37
  When you understand that and you take a step back and then look at some
• 52:40
  of the systems that are out there, you're like, well, wait a second.
• 52:43
  That seems really counterintuitive.
• 52:44
  Maybe cause it's wrong.
• 52:46
  Or maybe it's because they have a trick system.
• 52:48
  So as we, as we kind of wrap up this thought on all this, I do want to
• 52:52
  touch quickly on something you've mentioned a couple of times, which
• 52:55
  is the certifications themselves.
• 52:57
  So without getting into the chemistry and the, and the physics and everything
• 53:01
  involved in those SFI versus FIA ratings, maybe explain for folks what
• 53:06
  the limitations are in terms of, yeah, I bought this suit, I picked it up from PMX.
• 53:11
  A lot of people don't realize there's an expiration date.
• 53:13
  The timer is now ticking.
• 53:14
  You bought that suit.
• 53:16
  Yeah.
• 53:16
  What's your schedule look like?
• 53:17
  So SFI, good, bad, road ride.
• 53:21
  The suit's SFI rated.
• 53:22
  It technically does not have an expiration date.
• 53:25
  However, anything that you wear multiple times a year, definitely want to be
• 53:28
  on top of, especially how you keep it.
• 53:30
  It's cleanliness is really second to godliness, but you know, yes,
• 53:35
  it's, it's really determines the longevity of the suit.
• 53:38
  So if you wear it all the time, but you keep it very clean and it's
• 53:41
  obviously not too beat up, you're fine.
• 53:43
  If you wear it and you sweat a lot like me, unfortunately I sweat a
• 53:46
  lot just standing still sometimes.
• 53:49
  So I'm going to get a lot of moisture in there so I can
• 53:50
  constantly have to clean it.
• 53:51
  Well, you know, there's salt and other materials when they're just going to
• 53:53
  happen and detergent getting in there.
• 53:55
  It's going to, it's going to beat up on the material.
• 53:57
  So generally speaking.
• 53:59
  A suit should last you three years at least, if you're taking care
• 54:02
  of it, unless you're like a super endurance racer who's doing it all
• 54:04
  the time, then I would say be careful.
• 54:06
  Don't work on your car wearing a suit.
• 54:08
  Yeah, no kidding, right?
• 54:09
  Oil and other contaminants are obviously going to Unless you're in
• 54:11
  a world rally and then you have to.
• 54:12
  Right, but then, but they're getting new suits almost all the time, right?
• 54:16
  Or do all those things, but you're buying one every year.
• 54:18
  At least up to you.
• 54:19
  I don't know what your budget is FIA now, the new regulations.
• 54:23
  So the eight, eight, five, eight, or eight, eight, five, six, 2000 rating suits
• 54:27
  that also did not have an expiration date.
• 54:28
  Now they do.
• 54:29
  Now they're 10 years.
• 54:30
  Okay.
• 54:30
  Um, and it's 10 years not from the data manufacturer.
• 54:33
  So that suit might've been designed and let's just say 2018, but you
• 54:37
  have a 2020 version, so your suit would be good to December of 2030.
• 54:41
  So it's 10 years calendar years.
• 54:43
  So if it's a January, 2020, you have December until.
• 54:45
  2030, right?
• 54:46
  So you really have 11 years.
• 54:48
  Yeah.
• 54:48
  I was going to say, is it like the helmets where there's a certain?
• 54:51
  Nope.
• 54:51
  If it's a December suit, then it's still a December suit.
• 54:54
  It doesn't matter.
• 54:54
  Okay.
• 54:55
  Does apparel come out every year or on a more regular
• 54:58
  frequency than the helmets do?
• 54:59
  The helmets are always like every five years.
• 55:01
  So that's the Snell rating.
• 55:02
  Snell does five years.
• 55:04
  FIA does it as it sees fit.
• 55:06
  So if they see that there's been a significant jump in
• 55:08
  technology, For instance, seats.
• 55:12
  The previous model was 1999.
• 55:14
  It was the FIA Technical Directive, right?
• 55:17
  So, your regular running little seat, and then sort of including payload seats and
• 55:22
  what not, the construction and the, and the, um, Rigidity and the integrity of it.
• 55:26
  It's been the same standard since 1999.
• 55:28
  2021 is a new standard.
• 55:30
  It just came out.
• 55:31
  And right now for the consumer market, as of September of 2021, there's
• 55:36
  one company who has a 2021 seat.
• 55:39
  So the 2021 seats are kind of a mix between the, I believe it's 2009 seats,
• 55:44
  which are kind of like your rally seats.
• 55:46
  Those are the much more advanced seats.
• 55:48
  So it kind of brings all the things together.
• 55:50
  technology from that into the newer ones at a lower market price.
• 55:53
  That one company that happens to, uh, create that 2021 seat.
• 55:57
  We were actually an importer of, so we're waiting on our shipment of that.
• 56:00
  So that's exciting.
• 56:01
  The rat of Italy.
• 56:02
  Very exciting.
• 56:03
  Does it end in an O?
• 56:04
  No, no, no, no, no.
• 56:07
  It does not.
• 56:08
  So, suits are 2018 from 2000, so that's pretty newer, and they're phasing out,
• 56:13
  so I believe at the end of 2022, all suits must be, all new suits, because you
• 56:18
  can still buy a 2000 technical director suit, and it's technically still good
• 56:23
  for 10 years, but the new ones are out.
• 56:27
  And they're phasing out.
• 56:28
  So at a certain date, you can't make the old style anymore,
• 56:31
  but still by the year out.
• 56:33
  So yeah, the suits are rated longer than you'll actually should be using them for.
• 56:39
  Now, if you use it once a year, that's it.
• 56:41
  It'll go all 10 years.
• 56:42
  If you're using it multiple times, probably not.
• 56:44
  So is there a way to get your suit tested to see what its efficiency is?
• 56:49
  You could, but it would destroy the suit.
• 56:50
  They're going to light it on fire.
• 56:52
  Yeah.
• 56:52
  Yeah.
• 56:52
  So essentially, so we actually have some of the test results.
• 56:55
  I'm going to be doing a lot of videos and tutorials and videos of
• 56:57
  our suits and material being tested.
• 56:58
  Going back and forth with SFI by getting them online on our website.
• 57:00
  It's going to be really, really neat.
• 57:02
  One of our manufacturers actually already does that.
• 57:04
  So it's pretty nice to see it on their YouTube channel.
• 57:07
  However, what you can do though, if you really wanted to do this
• 57:10
  individually, you can reach out to your manufacturer and say, Hey, Send me,
• 57:14
  I'll pay for it, whatever the answer is, a test sample of the material.
• 57:17
  So SFI uses a seven by seven inch square materials and it has to be constructed
• 57:23
  exactly like the suit is constructed.
• 57:24
  So if you use square quilt style stitching, it's gotta be that.
• 57:28
  If you use diagonal, it's gotta be that.
• 57:30
  If your inside layer is 190 grams per square meter and your outside
• 57:33
  is 220, it's gotta be that.
• 57:35
  If it's 280 and 150, whatever it is, it's gotta be that.
• 57:38
  And they'll test it and they'll do the thermal protective properties.
• 57:41
  So if you want to do a certification and recertification or what's just
• 57:44
  called an R& D for the research and development, it's different prices.
• 57:47
  And they'll send you the results on them.
• 57:49
  They'll tell you what the thermal protective property is.
• 57:51
  They'll tell you what some of the shrinkage is.
• 57:53
  They have several different tests that they use, super informative.
• 57:56
  If you wanted to do that, you could to test like your individual
• 58:00
  suit that you would wear.
• 58:01
  No, not only would it destroy the suit if that were to do it,
• 58:05
  but they don't test SFI doesn't.
• 58:09
  FIA requires a full sample, but SFI does not require an actual suit for the
• 58:13
  sample as much as just the material.
• 58:15
  Now for the boots, gloves, undergarments, and hoods, they do
• 58:18
  require not only similar test sample materials, but also a full sample.
• 58:23
  One other question as we're wrapping up this whole entire thing, you
• 58:26
  know, we're talking still about.
• 58:28
  Petrol engines, ice cars, right?
• 58:30
  And which is what we predominantly see, you know, as we talk more
• 58:33
  and more on this show about the EV revolution, as we labeled it.
• 58:36
  Not only do we have to worry about fire, but I think we need to worry
• 58:39
  about electrostatic shock or short circuits in the electrical systems.
• 58:43
  Is that something that suit and apparel manufacturers are considering is some
• 58:47
  sort of way of grounding the material?
• 58:49
  Sure.
• 58:50
  So how do we have, so a lot of electricians and I used to work in a
• 58:53
  warehouse many, many years ago and we had to have certain electric resistant boots
• 58:59
  and they were mostly a rubber material.
• 59:01
  A flammability problem.
• 59:02
  Right.
• 59:03
  So.
• 59:03
  So, funny enough, for SFI, uh, NFIA, the soul of the boot.
• 59:08
  Which is predominantly rubber or other materials is not tested because they
• 59:13
  know it's going to be bad, right?
• 59:15
  There's really nothing you can do about it.
• 59:17
  The outside of the boot, if it's mouse weight or leather, is also
• 59:21
  not tested because there's a general of its thermal protective property.
• 59:26
  It's just, it is what it is.
• 59:27
  Whereas Nomex different versions, different weights are going to
• 59:30
  have different protective property, but that's why your boots, the
• 59:34
  inside layer is a Nomex and other different fire retardant properties.
• 59:39
  And that does get tested.
• 59:40
  If we were going to worry about electrostatic shock as a new
• 59:43
  manufacturer and someone who's kind of like experimenting
• 59:46
  with the different materials.
• 59:48
  So I look at how the boots are made now.
• 59:50
  You have a outer layer that's maybe more protective against that threat,
• 59:56
  and the inner layer is still Nomex.
• 59:58
  So the outside is going to have maybe lesser thermal protective
• 1:00:02
  properties, or it could be more because it's thicker material.
• 1:00:04
  So the suede, you know, thick house suede still wouldn't be slow to burn.
• 1:00:07
  It might transfer more heat, but still be slow to burn.
• 1:00:09
  And the inside being Nomex.
• 1:00:12
  I don't know the exact answer to that.
• 1:00:14
  It's a great question.
• 1:00:15
  Well, and I bring it up because It's not because of your, you know, guy
• 1:00:19
  that bought a Tesla and he wants to go to the track and try it out.
• 1:00:22
  Like I think it's because of what we heard earlier this year, we talked about
• 1:00:25
  a drive through episode, which is the NHRA has fully sanctioned an EV class as your
• 1:00:31
  first motorsport discipline to go electric and Ford's full other formula, right?
• 1:00:36
  Well, I mean, Ford, I was just reading there, they have a Cobra
• 1:00:39
  that's a Mustang that's an EV, it's fast, and they refuel it.
• 1:00:43
  So you gotta think about it slightly, you have to think
• 1:00:45
  about other risks at that point.
• 1:00:47
  Here's the thing with EVs, and that's a great point, electrostatic shock and all
• 1:00:50
  that, but to be honest with you, with EVs, The fire danger increases, right?
• 1:00:55
  You can put a gas fire out.
• 1:00:57
  You can put fire material if it's burning paint, or you're inside of
• 1:01:01
  your interior, your uh, whatever, electrical fire, you can put that out.
• 1:01:06
  A Tesla and EV fire, you're gonna be sitting there burning because
• 1:01:10
  they can spray you all you want.
• 1:01:12
  It ain't going out, right?
• 1:01:13
  So you got to get out of the car fast, just like anything else.
• 1:01:16
  However, Your system, your fire suppression system, if you're fortunate
• 1:01:20
  enough to have one in your car, which you should, if the car is that dedicated,
• 1:01:23
  it's not going to do diddly squat because as long as there's an electrical
• 1:01:26
  charge in the batteries, if the, if the batteries are on fire, it's going to burn.
• 1:01:29
  So as a firefighter, here's my experience with that.
• 1:01:32
  We're getting additional training on the EVs and Teslas and whatnot.
• 1:01:35
  You may have seen the story about a Tesla that burned for 30 some hours in Texas.
• 1:01:40
  It'll burn as long as there's fuel.
• 1:01:42
  No amount of chemical you're going to pour on that car is going to make that
• 1:01:46
  battery have less electrical properties.
• 1:01:49
  And sometimes it might make them worse.
• 1:01:50
  Correct.
• 1:01:51
  You know, spraying water on it might make it worse.
• 1:01:53
  So we get to that point.
• 1:01:54
  So, I'm less worried about electrical current as far as it shocking me or doing
• 1:02:00
  damage as electrical current and more worried about electrical current and the
• 1:02:04
  fact that it's the energy it produces that can't be put out by like traditional
• 1:02:08
  firefighting methods, which is all we have inside of the car right now, which
• 1:02:11
  means that you need to be better at, you know, Preventing burns and then trying to
• 1:02:16
  stop them or put them out after the fact.
• 1:02:18
  A suit becomes much more important than an EV because your priority is out
• 1:02:23
  of the car, not I have a fire, let me hit my suppression system, hopefully
• 1:02:27
  it goes out and I take my time.
• 1:02:28
  And that's much more intense heat too.
• 1:02:31
  I need more protection from higher degrees of burns and getting out quicker
• 1:02:35
  and giving me more time to do so.
• 1:02:37
  As much as we might need a new material or thought process for the
• 1:02:41
  new technology, we actually need.
• 1:02:42
  more of the same, even more so of what's already out there to protect us.
• 1:02:47
  Well, John, this has been a really good look at safety from
• 1:02:53
  a different perspective, right?
• 1:02:54
  We've covered safety on this show before, but this is a great way to
• 1:02:57
  reintroduce it from another angle, another vector and kind of expand
• 1:03:01
  our minds on things that we probably take for granted on a track weekend.
• 1:03:05
  So I want to thank you for that, but I also want to give you the opportunity
• 1:03:08
  to shout out to anybody you want, but also tell people how they can get
• 1:03:11
  ahold of you for more information.
• 1:03:12
  Absolutely.
• 1:03:13
  So projectmotoring.
• 1:03:14
  com, the website is up.
• 1:03:16
  It's going to be constantly evolving as we bring, uh, products to market.
• 1:03:20
  We're always accessible.
• 1:03:21
  You can email us or contact information's on there.
• 1:03:23
  Obviously phone number, Facebook, Instagram, email, website.
• 1:03:26
  We're at projectmotoring on Instagram.
• 1:03:28
  Yep, sure are.
• 1:03:30
  And then same thing on Facebook.
• 1:03:31
  We're pretty much at all of Hooked on Driving Northeast events.
• 1:03:34
  We're set up shop there.
• 1:03:35
  If we're not actually staffing the event, we're walking around trying to help out.
• 1:03:39
  We are at SCCA and NASA events, uh, as we, as we.
• 1:03:43
  continue to grow.
• 1:03:44
  So the big thing we like to do is try to be trackside to meet people,
• 1:03:48
  say hello, put names to faces, but also because we are custom, we like
• 1:03:52
  to measure people, get things right.
• 1:03:53
  And again, it's, it's, it's a similar price point as off the
• 1:03:57
  shelf, but custom, our big market.
• 1:03:59
  We were teasing before about PMS is actually ladies because Ladies
• 1:04:03
  have a very difficult time finding product that fits them off the shelf.
• 1:04:08
  Another sneak peek is we have a SFI sports bra coming for the ladies who need that.
• 1:04:13
  Because those are basically polyester and yeah, and a little bit of metal too.
• 1:04:17
  Yeah.
• 1:04:18
  Yeah.
• 1:04:18
  All things that are real terrible.
• 1:04:20
  So you can find us there if you have any questions, reach out to us.
• 1:04:23
  We're one of you.
• 1:04:24
  We're car people.
• 1:04:25
  We're track people.
• 1:04:26
  We're everywhere.
• 1:04:27
  As they say, four petrol heads, all petrol heads.
• 1:04:29
  Yeah.
• 1:04:30
  So we appreciate coming back.
• 1:04:32
  I always appreciate hanging out with GTM guys.
• 1:04:34
  It's our second home or third home or it's one of our homes.
• 1:04:37
  So always appreciate it and thank you for your time.
• 1:04:40
  Yeah, John.
• 1:04:40
  It's been an absolute pleasure.
• 1:04:41
  So again, folks, if you want to learn more about PMX and Project Motoring, visit www.
• 1:04:47
  projectmotoring.
• 1:04:47
  com or follow them on Instagram.
• 1:04:49
  At project motoring so john, I can't thank you enough for coming back
• 1:04:52
  on the show And we hope to have you back on several more times now
• 1:04:55
  that you're here more permanently.
• 1:04:57
  Yeah, I think we've got a lot of content very cool
• 1:05:05
  If you like what you've heard and want to learn more about gtm
• 1:05:08
  be sure to check us out on www.
• 1:05:10
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• 1:05:11
  org You can also find us on instagram at grand tory motorsports Also, if you
• 1:05:16
  want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or
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  text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.
• 1:05:27
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• 1:05:28
  We'd love to hear from you.
• 1:05:30
  Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here.
• 1:05:32
  We really hope you enjoyed this episode of BreakFix, and we wanted
• 1:05:36
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• 1:05:41
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• 1:05:46
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• 1:06:09
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• 1:06:10
  com forward slash GT motorsports, and remember without fans,
• 1:06:15
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• 1:06:19
  Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr