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RTC52: Forget Love Languages, let's talk Money Languages! · The Curve

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Curve Podcast, a conversation for women who want to learn more about money.
• 0:07
  They are money for the future they want to have.
• 0:10
  We're all busy in the pursuit for financial confidence and increasing your wealth should be a simple one.
• 0:15
  So thank you for being here and for listening because together we really can raise the curve.
• 0:21
  So money scripts is another word for money stories.
• 0:25
  Which is essentially, it's a lot to the way you've been brought up and then how you interact with your finances into later life.
• 0:32
  So we'd love to hear a little bit of psychology around that because I'm sure we can all relate to whatever our tendencies are, whether they're frivolous, whether they're really restricted and how they actually even came about.
• 0:43
  Yeah, so money scripts, it's a bit of like a financial psychology, there is such a thing.
• 0:51
  That helps us to make sense of our beliefs around money.
• 0:57
  Just like we have deep rooted beliefs about ourselves that we learnt in childhood, we can have deep rooted beliefs about money that we might have learnt in childhood.
• 1:06
  And often, usually from our parents and often these are passed down from generations to generations.
• 1:13
  And so the research suggests that there's sort of four types of money scripts that we can fall into.
• 1:21
  And maybe I'll speak to those a little bit.
• 1:23
  Yeah, they'll be amazing.
• 1:24
  The first of the money scripts is called money avoidance.
• 1:27
  And that's maybe one that you're experiencing.
• 1:32
  But it is the classic, I don't really want to look, I don't want to spend money, that sort of thing.
• 1:39
  And so you might have some beliefs about money in this category, like believing that kind of wealth is a bad thing.
• 1:49
  Or that people with less money are better than those with more money.
• 1:53
  Oh, this is me, I'm 100% exactly.
• 1:56
  Are these like the love languages?
• 1:58
  They are.
• 1:59
  There's probably your love languages.
• 2:01
  You have to find it.
• 2:04
  I reckon I am all of the things you just described in terms of avoidance.
• 2:08
  I don't want to look at it.
• 2:09
  Also definitely have a hang up around the idea of spending money or owning things that are expensive, equaling.
• 2:15
  Shell owners, materialism, all of that, definitely.
• 2:20
  So some people can experience quite commonly, like even discussed around money.
• 2:26
  And you know, that I want to talk about it.
• 2:28
  And it's rude to talk about money and that sort of thing.
• 2:32
  The second of them is money worship.
• 2:37
  So that's the one where you kind of believe that money buys you happiness.
• 2:42
  Maybe it's not too bad a few times.
• 2:44
  And you can never have enough.
• 2:46
  And you're kind of more obsessive over getting more.
• 2:49
  I did just see some Gucci shoes in her room.
• 2:55
  I think you're obsessed with my footwear.
• 2:58
  You're obsessed with your whole wardrobe, honestly.
• 3:01
  But maybe this is our money story.
• 3:03
  Honestly, it's me being like, oh my god, you're spending so much.
• 3:06
  And you're being like, yeah, I can make more.
• 3:08
  It's probably a little bit of that.
• 3:10
  Because I've lived here times in my life where I've thought, you know what?
• 3:13
  I'm never going to earn more than this, probably.
• 3:15
  This is probably where I'll cap it.
• 3:17
  I reckon this is probably as much as I will ever earn, which is so sad.
• 3:21
  Yeah, it's hard to think about, isn't it?
• 3:23
  Yeah.
• 3:24
  I don't think money can buy you happiness, but I think it can.
• 3:27
  It can get you out of a lot of unhappiness.
• 3:29
  Sure.
• 3:30
  You know, if you don't have that stress about money or, you know,
• 3:33
  you can afford to buy yourself a comfortable life, then I think that can add.
• 3:38
  It can reduce your unhappiness if that makes sense.
• 3:41
  So I found her one.
• 3:43
  Yeah, the other two.
• 3:45
  Money status.
• 3:47
  So status defined by how much money you have.
• 3:51
  So is that similar to the neck of the last one you just said?
• 3:54
  It is quite similar.
• 3:55
  We're going to roll up some like private jets and stuff and being like that.
• 4:00
  Yeah.
• 4:01
  So it's quite similar, but it's more about showing, like more about what people can not humble see.
• 4:10
  Yeah.
• 4:11
  So you might, in this one, spend more than you can afford.
• 4:16
  It might be like, you have a loan car because you want to be driving in our video.
• 4:20
  Yeah.
• 4:21
  Yeah.
• 4:22
  And then the last one is money vigilance.
• 4:24
  So that's people who are a little bit more frugal and more kind of focused on saving.
• 4:29
  And this is the best one for making.
• 4:33
  This means that you will probably make the best financial decisions of all of the money scripts.
• 4:37
  But I think that you might be the least fun.
• 4:40
  I'm not.
• 4:41
  But it's frugal that you're so frugal, you're putting money away for a rainy day or like.
• 4:46
  Yeah.
• 4:47
  You're like really reluctant to spend it.
• 4:49
  You've got money, but you're just reluctant to spend it.
• 4:51
  It's kind of like anything.
• 4:52
  There's a spectrum.
• 4:53
  Yeah.
• 4:54
  And at times we have to be more frugal.
• 4:56
  And at times we don't have a choice.
• 4:58
  But if you are so much, you know, concern over being of saving that you miss out on connections or opportunities,
• 5:07
  then maybe it is.
• 5:09
  There's a balance.
• 5:10
  Yeah.
• 5:11
  Definitely.
• 5:12
  Yeah.
• 5:13
  Yeah.
• 5:14
  As you said, connections, I would like to make a very clear segue to relationships, because I know that you do work a lot with couples.
• 5:18
  Did you guys script this?
• 5:20
  All these segues.
• 5:21
  I'm like, oh gosh.
• 5:22
  So you know, she's actually going to be the new cohort and you're losing your job.
• 5:25
  I need to talk to you about money.
• 5:28
  And she's called Victoria.
• 5:30
  Oh gosh.
• 5:32
  So you work a lot with couples.
• 5:34
  And I'm interested to know your experience with different money scripts within a dynamic.
• 5:39
  Because I imagine if you've got frugal, Sophie and flashy.
• 5:43
  Friddy.
• 5:44
  Yeah.
• 5:45
  Then that could cause quite a lot of tension and be really difficult to find a functional balance between the two.
• 5:53
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:54
  I think money is like the second leading cause of divorce.
• 5:58
  What's the first adultery?
• 6:00
  I think maybe lack of commitment to the relationship.
• 6:04
  It might be.
• 6:05
  So that's the worst.
• 6:06
  Yeah.
• 6:07
  Going to calendar girls and maybe having.
• 6:09
  A few.
• 6:10
  Some more fun.
• 6:11
  Yeah.
• 6:12
  Yeah.
• 6:13
  So sorry, I did put calendar girls and that was mean.
• 6:16
  But essentially adultery, number one, and finance.
• 6:18
  That's a bit of a promo for calendar girls.
• 6:20
  True.
• 6:21
  My parents separate based on financial stresses.
• 6:23
  Okay.
• 6:24
  Like obviously there was many other things that were happening and playing out at the time.
• 6:29
  But definitely to do with money.
• 6:31
  And I think that's why I have such a hang up about it is because I really never want finances to come in the way of my relationship.
• 6:38
  It's a hard decision to have though.
• 6:40
  Like I've been with my partners who I know earn less or more.
• 6:45
  And it's like you don't want to open that can of worms because you're scared of.
• 6:51
  So you just kind of natural natural my tendency is to just brush into the rug and deal with it.
• 6:57
  And it won't ever short space again and it does.
• 7:00
  I'm interested.
• 7:01
  You said that your followers like they've all had conversations or a lot of them have had conversations with that.
• 7:07
  Yeah.
• 7:08
  So we open up a conversation around how do you split your finances?
• 7:11
  Are they combined?
• 7:13
  Do you have separate accounts?
• 7:14
  And a lot of people, most of them just said like the number one thing is communication.
• 7:19
  Like you have to talk about it because if you don't then things get misaligned.
• 7:23
  And you know what I was meaning is that a lot of people seemed really comfortable with their setup
• 7:30
  as in whether they were sharing or it was separate.
• 7:33
  They had the conversation and they were at the point where they were comfortable with whatever their setup was.
• 7:37
  But I guess my question was like what's a good way to understand each other's money stories?
• 7:44
  And then how can you make that a proactive, productive conversation that's beneficial for both people?
• 7:51
  And how do you even start that conversation?
• 7:54
  Yeah, I mean I think it's really encouraging that people have had that conversation
• 7:58
  because I don't know if that would have been the case many years ago
• 8:01
  that people were kind of having more transparent conversations about that.
• 8:05
  I think because we are earning either more the same or similar amounts now.
• 8:11
  It's naturally more of a conversation because we are actually contributing the same amount of not more.
• 8:18
  Maybe 50 years ago it couldn't be a conversation because we weren't maybe in a position
• 8:23
  to be kind of on equal pegging in that way.
• 8:27
  Yeah.
• 8:28
  Well in terms of the conversation I suppose like any conversation you have with your partner
• 8:33
  you want to make sure that it's not coming in a time where you're particularly emotionally aroused.
• 8:39
  And not in a good way.
• 8:42
  Well you are a dick when it comes to paying for that.
• 8:45
  Oh my god, I just thought of that as like just before, like while you're having sex.
• 8:50
  I just didn't hear the emotionally aroused.
• 8:53
  Don't do it.
• 8:54
  No don't either aroused.
• 8:55
  I'm like why would someone have that conversation in being?
• 8:58
  Well that would be my recommendation.
• 8:59
  Don't have that conversation when you're also having sex.
• 9:03
  Well it might be a good one at a good time to have it actually.
• 9:06
  That's really relaxed.
• 9:08
  It was in a really good mood.
• 9:11
  Just afterwards.
• 9:12
  Yeah.
• 9:13
  Joysticks.
• 9:14
  So I think we just have that chat.
• 9:16
  I've got the spreadsheet.
• 9:19
  I'll simply flip my computer.
• 9:21
  No so not then but emotionally aroused.
• 9:24
  Emotionally.
• 9:25
  Emotionally heightened.
• 9:26
  So that is often where we have most conversations about change with our partners is when we are pissed.
• 9:34
  And of course those as we all well know are not effective.
• 9:38
  So you want to think about scheduling that time together where both of you are coming into the conversation
• 9:45
  in a good headspace awareness of kind of what the conversation is going to be around and setting some time apart for that.
• 9:53
  You know you talked a little bit about like making it like a self-care kind of time.
• 9:59
  You could do a date.
• 10:01
  Daring it.
• 10:02
  But you can't people do have an evening every so well.
• 10:06
  I feel like maybe you do.
• 10:07
  Is that your thing?
• 10:08
  No I'm just thinking like God if I scheduled an evening to talk about finances with my partner.
• 10:15
  You'd never hear the end of it.
• 10:16
  It would be a joke.
• 10:17
  Yeah.
• 10:18
  Isn't funny.
• 10:19
  Yeah.
• 10:20
  You're like the big schedule in her.
• 10:21
  It's a very day night.
• 10:23
  Although they probably run a mile every like oh my god.
• 10:26
  I don't think that you would be very comfortable having this conversation.
• 10:29
  I've never had this conversation.
• 10:31
  I was going to say.
• 10:32
  Yeah.
• 10:33
  Even talking about it now.
• 10:35
  I'm like oh my gosh.
• 10:36
  Change the subject.
• 10:37
  Yeah.
• 10:38
  We wrap this podcast up please.
• 10:40
  Thanks.
• 10:41
  You're done.
• 10:42
  It's really interesting as well because if you have anyone should I know.
• 10:45
  I want to have the conversation and be feel comfortable doing it when you deal with money all day every day.
• 10:51
  I know and I think that's why I don't want to bring it home.
• 10:53
  Do you know what I mean?
• 10:54
  Like I kind of like yeah and I think there's kind of this element of like independence.
• 11:00
  I'll look after myself.
• 11:02
  I don't need to have that conversation.
• 11:04
  And it's funny you're saying you know we've come so far in terms of now we are much more equal participants in the household and everything.
• 11:10
  And I would have thought that you know back in the day we would have had to have those conversations more because you'd want more security because you earn less and you you know there's you don't have your own income.
• 11:20
  Whereas now it's like we don't need to have those conversations because we've got our own income.
• 11:25
  You know like but it's it's but it's not it's I understand it's completely the way around and it should be.
• 11:29
  But yeah it's just I've never had sister.
• 11:33
  Yeah I don't know.
• 11:38
  Maybe it comes from a place of and this is going to sound terrible but like I've always felt like I've been in a position of earning capacity.
• 11:50
  A bit greater than my friends and therefore a bit greater than my partners and so I haven't want to open that can of worms.
• 11:57
  What does it mean to if you earn more money than your partner?
• 12:00
  Yeah it's like I don't know I don't want to sound like I don't even know how to phrase this.
• 12:13
  Like is she going to cry?
• 12:16
  No I'm like what's the best way to phrase this but I guess I don't I want to I don't want to be the dominator in the relationship with them.
• 12:24
  I don't really understand how I'm trying to phrase it but you know I don't want to come across as like controlling.
• 12:30
  Yeah controlling maybe there's some protection trying to protect their self-esteem the idea.
• 12:35
  Yeah and that'll be that old gender dynamic you know that part of being the man is being the provider.
• 12:42
  And I want to be more feminine and I want to be like looked after and it goes back to the whole masculinity feminine feminine energy and like all that.
• 12:50
  And it's like when I come home I don't want to be I'm so masculine in my job and my role at work.
• 12:55
  I kind of want to like fall into that more feminine which shouldn't be.
• 13:01
  Shouldn't be related to money.
• 13:03
  No but yeah I think that's just like psychologically something I have to deal with.
• 13:08
  Well maybe you also don't want to come home and do your job.
• 13:11
  Yeah yeah exactly.
• 13:13
  Or I'm scared of the response or the outcome.
• 13:17
  But yeah I think it is I want to kind of leave that at the door and come home and like just enjoy being with them and not having to talk about money.
• 13:24
  Yeah in the evening as well as during the day.
• 13:27
  Yeah but yeah.
• 13:29
  I think also you are you're not avoided with your finances but probably with conflict like more of a.
• 13:36
  It's fine it's absolutely fine.
• 13:39
  It's fine it's not fucking fine.
• 13:42
  Yeah literally that is it.
• 13:44
  You ask my ex-boyfriend who we're like yep that is big to her too.
• 13:48
  Oh yes.
• 13:50
  Yeah well it's tricky and I think it's yeah it's.
• 13:52
  It's so weird oh my god.
• 13:54
  It's good that you shared that though because I'm sure a lot of people feel the same.
• 13:59
  I mean it is uncomfortable it's been like drilled into us that it's bad takes to talk about money.
• 14:04
  And I think maybe I want the relationship to not be about money.
• 14:09
  Do you know like I want there's so many other great elements in a relationship and in a person and all that.
• 14:14
  That it's like yeah I guess I want to focus more on those than not.
• 14:18
  But obviously understand money and wealth trajectory and security and financial freedom and all that.
• 14:27
  You have to have conversations about money.
• 14:30
  So back to the money script sorry.
• 14:32
  How do we approach that in a relationship and I know this isn't like a you know Jerry Seinfeld
• 14:39
  whatever not Seinfeld that's Jerry Springer you know sort of situation but for anyone
• 14:44
  listening who might not know maybe what their partner's money script is.
• 14:48
  Firstly I guess how do you figure that out and then secondly your own and then thirdly where to from there.
• 14:54
  Yeah so I think sometimes yeah we have these unconscious beliefs don't we that we just we just exist by you know like you were just saying.
• 15:03
  I actually have never had that conversation before and it's just an unconscious like of course I won't talk about that.
• 15:08
  And so the same thing with with our money scripts is maybe we're not actually cognizant for not aware of what our thinking is around money.
• 15:17
  And like any kind of observation of your behavior or thinking patterns you just want to observe it over time and reaction to different situations.
• 15:24
  So when I spend money on I don't know that new dress.
• 15:28
  How does that make me feel when that bill comes up how do I feel what do I perceive about other people's relationships with money.
• 15:35
  And then you might be able to start to understand your own beliefs about money but can also be helpful sometimes to observe your family members
• 15:44
  and your parents in particular around how they discuss money if discussed at all.
• 15:49
  And with your partner approaching the conversation curiously is really important.
• 15:57
  What we forget when we have a partner is that they don't think the same as us as much as that would be great and easier.
• 16:04
  They don't have the same thoughts they don't have the same context so their context for money and their relationship with it will be different than yours.
• 16:12
  So it's about approaching it non-judgmentally and curiously to see well when I think about spending money on this I feel xyz how does it make you feel and more just a learning growth experience.
• 16:25
  But communication is of course the most important thing in relationships.
• 16:31
  And I think you know your right is we do have to talk about money in order to be on the same page particularly if you're thinking about a long term future with someone you want to make sure that your spending goals are aligned and ultimately your values and where you feel like you want to put your resource.
• 16:50
  Do you think though that two people need to have the same money scripts to have a successful happy relationship?
• 16:57
  It's easier wouldn't it. But I don't know I mean I don't think we often do because we often think so differently to our part.
• 17:05
  I mean perhaps maybe people yeah people might if they come from similar background sure.
• 17:10
  What was I again?
• 17:12
  The second one, worship money worship.
• 17:15
  I'm looking for a money worshipper.
• 17:18
  Any guys out there listening?
• 17:20
  I'm looking for a frugal or what was the first one?
• 17:24
  I would like an avoid a frugal guy.
• 17:28
  I really don't want to have someone that's got the same money mindset as me to be honest.
• 17:35
  I would rather have someone that teaches me about money in a different way and also it's not you know I look at people who cannot be frugal and not be avoided and I admire it.
• 17:45
  So for me I think it would be good.
• 17:47
  I mean I wouldn't probably want to be of the worship.
• 17:50
  No what was the flash you on? I don't know.
• 17:52
  I wish but probably not a status not a status.
• 17:56
  Oh gosh no.
• 17:58
  Interesting maybe to Google as well just have a look online for the like if you want to dig deeper into one of the four money scripts.
• 18:04
  Yeah there's a psychometric.
• 18:06
  Oh yeah you can do it like I can do it online.
• 18:08
  I think I'm pretty sure you can do it online but there isn't like a evidence based psychometric.
• 18:13
  We should do it and actually check before they're at ones.
• 18:16
  I was going to bring it with me and you send it to us.
• 18:21
  I think I have it.
• 18:22
  Yeah I can and you should do it.
• 18:24
  I didn't I was like oh I should make them do it but then I was like oh I don't want to be too.
• 18:28
  No I love that.
• 18:29
  Oh we love it.
• 18:30
  Yeah so all about it.
• 18:32
  Okay that's such good advice.
• 18:34
  So find out your money script.
• 18:36
  Find out what your partner's money script does.
• 18:38
  Talk about it see what's going to work.
• 18:40
  If I do it in a non-judgment tool.
• 18:42
  Open minded way.
• 18:44
  I'm actually really excited.
• 18:46
  To make somebody.
• 18:48
  That's my idea too.
• 18:50
  But I'm really excited the next relationship I go on to just to have that conversation and not make it a big deal.
• 18:57
  You know I like do it in non-judgment tool in like really organic kind of way and learn that I can do that.
• 19:05
  And yeah.
• 19:06
  Yeah.
• 19:07
  Part of you.
• 19:08
  Yeah.
• 19:09
  I think that's huge.
• 19:10
  Yeah.
• 19:11
  I think that's really really awesome.
• 19:12
  It's about like trying to move past those expectations of being a female that we're not permitted to talk about money in the same way or it's vulgar or controlling.
• 19:25
  Definitely.
• 19:26
  Yeah.
• 19:27
  And just like I kind of think that the the less of a big deal you make it you know and you kind of see it as a conversation.
• 19:35
  Set up early.
• 19:36
  Yeah.
• 19:37
  Don't wait 10 years and every like so.
• 19:39
  Are you a money worker or I just put that in my bumble by line.
• 19:45
  What kind of money script are you?
• 19:47
  I was thinking of putting in mind me help with the came up wardrobe because I've got to put up a like wardrobe and I'm like come on.
• 19:54
  I don't know how to do it.
• 19:55
  I can help you with that.
• 19:56
  Can you?
• 19:57
  God you're good.
• 19:59
  Thank you so much for joining us for today's episode of Raising the Curve.
• 20:03
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• 20:07
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• 20:11
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