Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / Racing Toward Sustainability: How Evolve Lubricants Is Reinventing Motor Oil

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Racing Toward Sustainability: How Evolve Lubricants Is Reinventing Motor Oil · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

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BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from
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all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors,
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designers, and everything in between.
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Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder How did they
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get that job or become that person?
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The road to success is paved by all of us, because everyone has a story.
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Tonight's Break Fix guests are dedicated to using advanced technology
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and scientific breakthroughs to bring high performance, finished lubricant
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solutions to market that provide a positive impact on the environment.
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This is unheard of within the oil and lubricants industry.
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They were able to take the leap and produce products that are composed of
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primarily sustainable and renewable plant based oils while outperforming
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other petroleum based products.
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Utilizing new technology, they created a groundbreaking, unique
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hydrocarbon molecule entirely based on plant feedstocks.
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Evolve Lubricants is a green technology company that develops and
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manufactures high performance, non petroleum based, sustainable lubricant
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solutions for the consumer, commercial, industrial, and transportation sectors.
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And joining us tonight is Rick Lee, CEO and President for Evolve Lubricants
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to explain how all of this works.
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That's right.
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Thanks, Tanya.
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And welcome to Break Fix, Rick.
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Well, thanks for having me.
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So like all good Break Fix episodes, we want to dive into the who, what,
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where, and when of our guests or the folks that we're talking to.
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So let's talk about the history of Evolve Lubricants.
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How did it all get started and why?
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Evolve Lubricants, you know, really began in both the lab and the bench testing
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of racing oils about eight years ago.
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My business partner is Tom Kirkham, who Went to Poland with his brother and
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they converted a MIG factory aircraft plant into making aluminum body Cobras.
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I read about that years ago.
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Yeah.
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So Tom Kirkham is my business partner.
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He owns a significant portion of Evolved Lubricants.
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We've been good friends for 25 years.
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I raced his Cobras.
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I mean, I, I did it wrong.
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I started out with Cobras and then moved to Miata's, you know, uh, so, and then,
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so, well, okay, maybe this isn't really a good idea to be doing this in Cobras.
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He was in the very front of things.
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He's a mechanical engineer.
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They looked at what was happening in the Cold War and all these other things.
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And they were one of the first Americans over into Poland after the Cold War.
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So.
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You see things like that happening, and I see us at a
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very interesting point right now.
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We were very interested in trying to make the very best racing oils we
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could, and we were testing with Paul Hasselgren, who was Toyota Engine
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Builder of the Year for about 10 years.
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We had access to his dyno and running those Toyota Atlantic 4AG
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engines at 10, And so we found ourselves trying to perfect racing
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oils, basically trying to make those engines run as strong as they could.
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And as long as they could at that time, you were testing existing oils, not
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to name any brands, but we're talking conventional petroleum based oils.
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So.
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What led you to make this move to develop your own?
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Well, you know, I was in the industrial commercial sector.
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I spent about 25 years in the Chevron distribution channel.
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I had spent this time in the petroleum space.
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I saw some advances that were happening in the biotech world, particularly
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with molecular modeling and sequencing.
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I saw some products that, or molecules that were being developed
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really as additives to increase the performance of lower performing
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base oils, like Group 2 base oils.
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Those additives were being used to meet OE specifications.
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Under a deeper dive into some of this technology or the molecular
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modeling, what I found was something that I thought might, with some
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work, make a very good racing oil.
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And that's really how we started.
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So did you immediately take this new idea and test it on
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race cars or production cars?
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Was it something in your stable or is it one of the race cars
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you were already working with?
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We actually did start testing and we did a lot of AB type of testing
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around additives and things like that.
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And, you know, we were using probably the best polyalpha olefin feedstocks
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group four and group five ester products in our development work.
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We said, Hey, listen, let's start slowly trying to replace the
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petroleum part of the base oils with this molecule to see results.
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What we get at the time we were doing more scientific types of testing, but it was
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really about trying to get more horsepower and torque out of the Atlantic motors.
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I'm sure our audience is really curious to know what the base oil is made out of.
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You know, people are probably thinking, you know, it's plant based.
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So are we talking corn?
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Are we talking palm oil?
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Are we talking who knows?
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Right.
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I kind of harken back to an episode of Top Gear kind of reminded me as I was
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digging in and doing some research on evolved lubricants, where they were.
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growing, cultivating, and harvesting in an attempt to make their own gas right
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out of rapeseed and things like that.
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So is that the path that you guys went down where it's like it's a giant farm
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and then you guys are going through and then turning this into your base oil?
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The technology actually started off with sorghum and unique to the base oils,
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each of the continents seem to be good.
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With certain types of oil.
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So Europe is a really great source for grapee or canola oil and the us,
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particularly soy for the US markets.
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And what we do is a conversion.
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Basically if you, you know, the soy plant, majority of that goes to the protein.
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We actually start from acetyl alcohol.
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There are oils that are derived from the soy.
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We begin that in our process relative to our base oils.
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Most people are when they think of lubricants and motor oils.
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Their heads probably go into big refineries, uh, things of that nature.
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But I mean, I, I would assume this is obviously much smaller scale,
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probably more laboratory type.
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What's your capacity look like?
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Yeah, actually it's not.
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One of our joint partners started off with a biotech company and grew into an
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investment by our major oil refinery.
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And the plant today is producing 20 million gallons.
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There was a refinery that was built at the cost of about 150 million.
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So this is not a benchtop laboratory type of project.
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We actually are manufacturing at full scale, the ability to do about
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27 truck loads a day out of our Richmond, California facility that has
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both rail and bulk facilities there.
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The technology has come a long way in the last.
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Eight years, we're very fortunate to have good partners in building what we
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think is the highest performing engine oils in the world without question.
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And where we also have a great story to say, you know, we say, Hey, from the base
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oil process, we actually have a certified negative carbon score of a negative 0.
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52 LCA.
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We've come a long way.
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And being able to formulate and make products that were eventually then tested
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by Porsche AG in Germany this last summer.
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And those results were so successful.
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They agreed to publish the test results and have me write a paper and present
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that to the World Engine Congress in Baden Baden, Germany this last January.
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That's awesome.
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Congratulations on that.
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I guess so.
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That was a lot of stress.
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I spent most of my Christmas break locked up in a room writing a paper.
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So I guess it was worth it.
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So let's circle back to the Evolve Lubricant offerings,
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especially in the oils that we're talking about here, engine oils.
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So there's two, there's EvoSyn and E Corsa.
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What's the difference?
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What is that all about?
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Sure.
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Primarily the EvoSyn lineup is really the commercial passenger car motor oil brand.
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And that brand is also carried into our heavy duty industrial lineup.
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So if you are a fleet owner, we've actually just completed our
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15W40CK4 spec diesel engine oils and our FA4 spec 10W30 diesel engine
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oils, a low sulfated ash product.
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We're not just doing passenger cars, but we're doing heavy duty over the road.
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diesel engine oils and contained in the U.
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S.
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patent is actually a four percent miles per gallon savings, which
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is significant savings in fuel economy for those companies.
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And we're getting a lot of traction and attention based on that, of
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course, because, hey, we have an alternative to petroleum and
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companies are looking at these things.
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There seems to be a convergence of both.
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Public policy and demand for these products and companies are looking
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for ESG solutions, which we have, and the e corsa is formulated specifically
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for, let's call it high temperature, high abuse, you know, track use, right?
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So like our 2050 e corsa racing oil.
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We'll find itself into the 917 Porsches of Bruce Canepa, the 935
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Porsches that he has as well, we have a high temp, high sheer number of 6.
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3.
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That's extremely remarkable having that kind of high temp, high sheer
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number for that particular product.
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So.
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In addition, what's really special about these products is the ASTM four ball scar
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test in which, you know, our score is 0.
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24 and the lower the score, the better our tests actually outperform every engine
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oil on the market on that ASTM test.
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It's a D 4172 if you're curious.
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When you compare and contrast EvoScent to E Corsa, obviously the base oil
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in this case is probably the same.
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So is the difference come into play with the additives that you put in for the
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motorsports oil versus the commercial?
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It does.
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We actually publish what the zinc and phosphorus and calcium content
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is and we brand it right on the bottle on the parts per million.
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Something I don't think any other oil companies are doing.
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We've done a lot of testing relative to where the precise additive
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is and really about performance.
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It gets down to the base oils and the combination of those
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base oils and additives.
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So I describe it to a lot of folks, like, imagine a bunch of pendulums moving with
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targets on them, and you've gotta align up those targets and be able to thread
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that needle really, really accurately.
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I mean, your focus right now is primarily on engine oils.
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Is there future expansion into other lubricants slash greases, bigger
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applications, EVs, there's no engine there, but there are still other
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components that need lubrication.
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Yeah.
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And to answer that question, the answer is yes.
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We make a full line of hydraulic oils, 68.
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We carry the eco label additive packages and the real difference.
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I guess I want to say this.
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There's been a lot of biodegradable products in the past, but they really
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can't take the higher temperatures because they weren't hydrocarbons.
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They were esters primarily.
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So we make a product with a molecule.
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that can really take the heat, and that's the big difference is
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that this is a true hydrocarbon.
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So we have a lot of precise control over the alpha olefin chain length
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and the average branching point.
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It's that linear alpha olefin and the control of the double bond position and
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the oligomerization and isomerization process to be able to get this
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optimized final structure process.
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And on the most simple terms, if you think about it like this, if you know how heat
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is transferred in a fluid through kinetic energy and conduction, this molecule
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has a much thicker carbon backbone.
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And because of that, the heat transfers through that backbone a lot more
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efficiently and the final product.
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Is been really worked under a lot of precision to operate in those
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performance characteristics, which we've designed for the oil under a
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lot of contact pressure and shear.
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The base molecule really starts to self assemble, resulting in
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lower traction and power loss.
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It's a pretty high tech solution and petroleum just can't get there.
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It's just one of the great things about this new technology.
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Is that we feel very, very fortunate to be able to bring this carbon negative
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base oil solution that we have and be able to apply that to both motorsports
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and commercial applications right now.
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And we're testing in some of the largest fleets in the country right now.
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And people might be wondering why can't the more traditional oils get there or
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be the same and it comes down to you guys are using plant based versus crude oil.
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Crude oil is very dirty.
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It's a lot harder to quote refine that.
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There's a lot of bad things, impurities.
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They're called sulfur, nitrogen, aromatic rings.
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Things of that nature that are not good and require a lot of processing
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steps to get them out can never get them quite 100 percent out.
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But if you never start with them to begin with, then they aren't there.
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So, you know, sulfur is a really interesting topic because, you
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know, we have no sulfur in this product, so we know in the.
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The combustion process in the pan and things that the
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engines creating sulfuric acid.
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And so one of the challenges is that oil being hydroscopic, you know, when
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you take your race engine and in the wintertime you eat it up for 10 or 15
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minutes and you don't boil all the water out, really essentially what you've got.
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done now is you've coated your engine as you've turned it off with other acids.
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And, you know, that's not what you want on your cam and tablet
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surfaces sitting most of the winter.
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So what we've seen in a lot of vintage racing engine applications is etching
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and other kinds of surface profile destruction that we see from acids.
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And that's a benefit of our oil is that we just don't have that.
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So vehicles that you've mentioned so far with respect to motorsport,
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they're vintage, which is good.
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And somebody needs to cater to the vintage market, but how does the evolved
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lubricants products play in modern motors?
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You know, especially a lot of these turbocharged motors
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where heat is the enemy, right?
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We're always running up against that wall.
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So how does it perform in those types of applications?
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Well, I'm glad you asked that because.
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That's exactly what Porsche wanted to know and the 2022 Porsche 911, the
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MA203 turbocharged engine is the test engine in which Porsche took through
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the paces a couple hundred hours on the dyno in a fuel dilution scenario.
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So I'm sworn to secrecy what the percentage is.
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They diluted the oil, you know, a little more than a third.
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You know, ran this through all different types of conditions from
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full race conditions to city stop and go all different kinds of conditions.
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At the end of the test, there were a lot of really cool takeaways.
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And one of them was that the evolved products held their viscosity
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and we started with the zero 40.
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So we held our viscosity better than any reference oil they had ever tested.
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And that was significant.
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And we looked at all the different lines in the test.
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And to be able to maintain the viscosity under heavy fuel dilution and other kinds
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of stressors in a modern motor show that this not only performs for the 5 million
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vintage 917 Porsches of the world, but the everyday Porsche or luxury or sports
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car that you'd like to put this in.
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So a lot of that obviously comes down to the modifiers and the additives.
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that you're putting into your oils as part of your formulation.
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But I want to look at it from the simplistic race car driver approach.
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When I'm in the car and I'm on track, you know, half an hour, hour, hour
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and a half at a time, all I have to go by are the gauges, right?
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I can't tell you what the dilution level is.
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I can't tell you what the motor is doing, how much sulfuric acid is generating.
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What I know is.
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What my oil pressure is and what my oil temperature is, and those are
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the two most important things when I'm out there beating up on the car.
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So I've tested different oils in my race engine and mm-hmm.
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Obviously when you look at the larger chart of petroleum based
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oils, heavy zinc based, or what we would call diesel oils are the enemy.
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You don't want to use those 'cause they don't withstand high
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temperatures very, very well.
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They're great for rings and they're great for protection and coating items.
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But when you move to other manufacturers that have.
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Purely ester based oils.
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They can withstand more heat.
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They have a higher flash point, all these kinds of things.
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So where does the Evolv E Corsa product fall into that scale?
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Is it in the upper right corner where it can withstand 300 plus degrees
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for hours at a time or where does it sit on that scale if you compare
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it with a petroleum based oil?
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So the Evolv product outperformed every petroleum engine oil on the market today.
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If you were to present it on the scale.
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Based on shear stability scores, based on NOAC scores for volatility and
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oxidation, we actually are extending engine drain intervals in the commercial
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side two to three times based on the ability of the product not to oxidize
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and its ability to resist heat.
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You know, the results in our molecule is a critical control over
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the fluid properties of viscosity.
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Volatility, vapor pressure, traction, friction coefficient,
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freezing points, those things.
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So when you're able to really model this molecule to perform,
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a couple things happen.
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One is that don't get blow by that's happening that a lot of engines will do.
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You don't have to top off.
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Those are other kinds of things that you see on the racing front,
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at least in endurance racing.
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Last year at Le Mans, I see people pitting to top off their oil and I'm screaming
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at the television, you know, going, Hey, if they were just using our oil.
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They wouldn't have to make that stop.
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In general, the additives are very important.
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Yes.
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And it's the balance of the additives, not just the additives alone.
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It's how they're balanced and such.
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So I think you're right.
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You know, really the, the strongest characteristics of the
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oil is, is how it feels in the seat of your pants in a race car.
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And what most people tell me is, Hey, the motor runs smoother.
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It seems to be happier.
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R.
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P.
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M.
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S.
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And horsepower gains.
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One of the takeaways in the Porsche test was a 12 horsepower gain.
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That was 12 metric.
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So roughly about eight U.
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S.
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Horsepower gain in this particular test.
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So should we expect to see lower oil temperatures?
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One of our initial test subjects was arrow lane out in Arizona.
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And, you know, we'll They're out in the heat and, you know, they had a
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number of years of experience and the first thing they noticed is
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their oil temps dropped about 10%.
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A huge number.
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I mean, that's just a great advantage.
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So in racing, sometimes, you know, you have to tape up the radiators to get
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the heat in there to get the power.
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I mean, that's something you can play with and work with.
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But essentially, if there's less friction going on in this
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motor, it's making more power.
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Speaking about the additives, are you guys developing your own or
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are you going to companies that have already, you know, there's
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companies out there to develop them?
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Yeah, no, we've used just about every additive company in the past in the world.
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We didn't use any particular.
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off the shelf kind of thing.
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You know, when we first started, I mean, it was all about things I had seen in
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metals tests and other things, different philosophies about molybdenum and how
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much to put in, how not to put in, you know, we saw filters being clogged
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with the stuff, tearing up motors.
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We've seen all kinds of diminishing returns based on certain
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additives that were in there.
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In the early days, we made changes in, in this AB testing and it robbed
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power from 4, 000 RPM to 7, 000 rpm.
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That's not a good thing, right?
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So we always were looking for the absolute pinnacle of performance.
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And, you know, to your question about where we sit on the scale, that's it.
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We are a performance driven first company.
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It's in our DNA.
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And the second thing that's in our DNA is providing the world, the
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solution to get off of petroleum.
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My next question is a bit of a twofold question, and I think it's important
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for the folks that are listening to this that have been following
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along with other episodes we've done talking about cooling and motor oils
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and testing and things like that.
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I'm wondering this.
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Are you guys in the process?
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of accepting samples?
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Are you polling the audience and saying, send us part of your next oil change?
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We want to see what the results are.
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And if not, and if folks want to send it to Blackstone or, you know,
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somebody else that has a testing facility, what are the expected results?
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So these two questions go together, but can be answered separately.
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I'm glad you talked about oil analysis because it's a big part of knowing
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what's going on in that engine, right?
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The answer is yes, you can send everything to Blackstone
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and they've seen our products.
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Southwest Research Institute, one of the premier labs in the country,
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has seen a lot of our products.
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The best way to answer that, oil sampling is done for lots of different reasons.
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Obviously, it's to trigger some sort of action or alarm.
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to pay attention to something based on a high metal count of something,
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or it could be used to truly know when you need to do an oil change.
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A lot of folks use hours or mileage to determine when an oil change is due, but
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it's really about the intersection of TBN, total base number, and total acid number.
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And the depletion of the total base number at about 65 percent or the
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doubling of viscosity in the product.
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Oil analysis is used for a lot of different ways.
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I think both metal analysis and oil drain intervals.
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I guess I want to reframe the question in the sense that your test engines,
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we've talked a lot about plastic.
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Porsche and the Toyota 4age motor, but every motor is a little bit different
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as we've talked to Blackstone Joe at Blackstone Labs before he says, you know,
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BMW motors give off certain things because of the way their bearings are constructed.
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There's certain things that they're looking for when they're doing that
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test or certain expected results.
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So I'm wondering.
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Would it be worthwhile to send in an oil sample to say, if we're
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running the evolved products, you know, this is what it looks like
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coming out of a diesel Volkswagen.
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And this is what it looks like coming out of a Jeep.
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And this is what it looks like coming out of something else to compare and see,
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do they end up being exactly the same?
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the same as the Porsche test, or is that not a worthwhile comparison?
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I think in the interest of good science, sample size, and understanding the, what
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the duty cycle of each of the engine is.
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I mean, you would think, okay, I have a renewable, sustainable, carbon negative
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base oil with an additive package.
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And ultimately I have arguably the best renewable engine oils on the planet today.
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And you think that would be a great match for the Toyota Prius, right?
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That engine actually doesn't require such a good oil.
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The duty cycle of that engine doesn't need it in a sense.
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So it really is about, you're right, about that particular engine.
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What kind of stressors it's going to put on the oil, you know, whether it's a flat
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tappet cam, Whether it's turbocharger, all these things, whether it's a hybrid with
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fuel dilution, all these different things.
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So I'm a strong believer in, in oil analysis and creating a profile room or
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basic library of test results is kind of hard if you don't have the first
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originating baseline and establish a baseline for each of the engines.
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And I think if you have that kind of data, And you say you want to, you know,
22:37
make a change or a switch, as long as you starting with some sort of baseline,
22:41
and then you have something to compare it against, then I think it's pretty good,
22:45
but I think it's pretty hard to compare engine to engines or a family of engines
22:50
without establishing first a baseline.
22:52
On that particular motor to understand where you're starting from.
22:55
I think my concern comes in thinking about the conditions of the racetrack
23:00
and how all of us use our cars going.
23:02
Well, if we do switch to E Corsa, then what's my expected result?
23:07
Does my oil service interval change?
23:08
How do I know that in my big turbo car, I didn't just torch this oil.
23:12
You know, if you break down all of them do in some respects.
23:15
So you kind of wonder, how do I know if I'm doing it right?
23:18
And I guess that's the bigger question.
23:20
We had a pro customer who has another oil company with a sponsorship all
23:25
over this silver cup car, and he lost his water line along the track, and
23:31
the car came in, and the engine was, you know, just crackling really hot.
23:35
The crackle and everything.
23:37
He knew that he probably cooked the motor, and he thought,
23:40
hey, I'm for sure burn the oil.
23:42
He pulled the oil pan, he looked at the oil, and he says, hey, it looks He came
23:46
to our dealer, Roger Kraus Racing Tires in Hayward, California, and promptly
23:51
bought 10 cases of the product from him and said, Hey, this is amazing stuff.
23:56
I for sure knew I'd cook this motor and this oil saved it.
24:00
You know, for most of us, losing a race motor is an expensive endeavor.
24:04
And so it's not something we want to do.
24:06
So we think of the oil in terms of really offering the best protection we can get.
24:12
Well, that's really what you have in the evolving course of products.
24:15
And it's just backed by simple tests that are known in the industry.
24:20
High temp, high shear tests, four ball scar wear tests.
24:23
And ultimately, when you understand the technology, It all comes together and
24:28
says, well, to answer your question, why hasn't big refineries done this?
24:32
Why haven't they done it?
24:33
And that's because the petroleum model on a per gallon basis to get the oil out
24:39
of the ground is relatively inexpensive.
24:42
And that infrastructure is already in place as opposed to building a new.
24:46
Refinery, basically, we're making a conversion to this.
24:49
We see this happening in the fuels side of the business.
24:52
You see renewable fuels being blended in at a 1 percent treat
24:56
rate for the tax benefits.
24:57
Then a complete switch to renewable 99, for example.
25:02
It would be wonderful if we could go full.
25:04
sustainable, not pulling crude oil out of the ground, but there's so many products
25:09
beyond just motor oil we're talking about here that we derive from crude oil.
25:13
And the reality is to make these other products that everyone uses
25:16
every day, plastic, gasoline, diesel.
25:19
Um, Transcribed Lubricants can be byproducts essentially of the process to
25:23
get these other products, you know, in the end, it's not like they're going out
25:27
of their way and they've got dedicated.
25:28
I only pull crude oil out to make lubricant.
25:31
Well, it doesn't really work that way.
25:32
They're making a bunch of other products at the same time.
25:35
So they've got that infrastructure.
25:37
Exactly.
25:38
The infrastructure is there, you know, they're pulling out the jet
25:41
fuel and the gasoline and the diesel based on its atomic weight and boiling
25:45
point in that distillation column.
25:47
So all the structure is there, you know, we have the same process in ours.
25:51
The only difference is we're set up to do a very clean
25:54
manufacturing type of process.
25:56
We don't have the environmental impact to the communities.
25:59
And in an ideal world, our technology would be adopted by
26:02
States that want to have their own.
26:04
Supply of fuels that come from renewables where the by product is this one decene
26:09
molecule or cosmetic grade glycerin.
26:12
In addition, we are on the move to build additional refineries and
26:17
to really get this product well known out there in the industry.
26:20
You know, we're really excited about our future.
26:22
That is very exciting, actually.
26:24
So, I mean, good luck.
26:25
To you and on those endeavors, hopefully you'll be able to expand.
26:28
It's really interesting.
26:30
If you start at the C level with a lot of the organizations on the
26:33
big gallons, everybody is saying yes, especially when you have the
26:36
performance gains on the industrial side of miles per gallon gains of three
26:40
to 4 percent now with ESG concerns.
26:44
And corporate borrowing and such being the way it is, companies graded on its
26:48
ESG scores relative to its ability to borrow and things like that on Wall
26:52
Street, you know, we have a solution for companies, race teams, companies that
26:56
supply the racing industry to actually show that they can do something to be
27:01
green today and our products swap in and replace petroleum and they intermingle
27:07
and they can be recycled just the way that normal petroleum motor oil is recycled.
27:11
blended in the whole bit circle back to what we were talking about just a little
27:14
while ago, we were focused on the motor oils and that interval cycle, et cetera.
27:19
But you mentioned the EvoSyn is good for passenger vehicles, your Jeep or
27:23
your Volkswagen is taking it to work every day, every 3000 miles, take
27:27
it into, you know, is the old adage.
27:28
And now you've got the 10, 000 mile fills and then the lifetime fills.
27:32
So given that your oil is maintaining viscosity over time and temperature,
27:36
and it's not volatilizing as much or at all versus other oils,
27:40
you're not having to top off as.
27:41
regularly.
27:42
So what is your interval look like for somebody who wants to
27:44
drive it to the grocery store?
27:46
We're telling folks that you can take that interval safely out at least two
27:50
times, whatever the normal interval is for the over the road truck folks.
27:54
And those kinds of things, we're pushing out to 176, 000 miles on an oil change
27:59
on the diesel side of those things.
28:01
We are looking at basically trying to give recommendations
28:05
that are based on that formula.
28:07
Basically I gave you a TBN and TAN.
28:10
So, it's different for every vehicle.
28:12
So, what we've done is, we've gone out three times safely with many
28:16
of the vehicles, but for being conservative, we said, hey, you know,
28:19
just try it at a two times interval.
28:21
So, that means that you're using quite a bit less oil.
28:23
The world's using quite a bit less.
28:25
You know, our technology is here where we're going to be making
28:29
fill for life applications.
28:31
We have a small engine 10 W 30 non detergent small engine oil package.
28:37
We have a group of customers, large manufacturers where they were only getting
28:41
a hundred hours on an oil change interval.
28:44
We have taken that out to 1500 without the need for being changed.
28:48
So pretty remarkable performance here.
28:50
So to piggyback off the passenger vehicle, a lot of car manufacturers
28:54
and not to pick on Volkswagen, but I just, cause I can rattle off, you and
28:59
508 and all these, you know, Specific engine specs that they recommend, does
29:05
that matter anymore with your oil?
29:06
Are you still able to spec out or all of it matters?
29:10
Because now you understand that American Petroleum Institute is petroleum, right?
29:14
So we haven't submitted our formulations for read across and for other competitors
29:19
to get in the space from our perspective.
29:21
Right now we have something completely unique.
29:23
We eventually will work with American Petroleum Institute in
29:27
new classifications for renewables.
29:29
What we're going to see ultimately is a whole bunch of solutions
29:33
coming to the automotive space.
29:35
And you're right that if we just took all of the solutions to replace
29:39
petroleum in the automotive sector, that is only a very sliver of a much
29:44
larger piece that petroleum plays in our world today for plastics and other
29:49
sort of process oils and rubbers and cosmetics, asphalt, the list goes on.
29:53
It is.
29:54
It goes on.
29:55
We have the ability to show CO2 savings relative to using our products, and
30:01
we're showing companies what their metric tonnage savings in CO2 is doing for
30:05
all the gearheads that are out there.
30:07
We see the ban of fossil fuels for recreation happening in Europe.
30:11
We see that in the fuels side, and I know that If our sport and our passion comes
30:17
to the party with solutions, as we always do, that there'll be taken seriously
30:22
and looked at, evaluated and such.
30:24
And we have a model here.
30:25
Don't believe us.
30:26
Don't trust us, test us.
30:28
We're shipping products right now.
30:29
You can get our products online with us.
30:32
Pretty simple to get products, whether you're a company or an individual.
30:36
So I want to go back because you guys were nerding out on oil change
30:39
intervals and things like that.
30:40
But along with that goes the oil filters.
30:43
So is there a recommended pairing there or because there's not the
30:47
same impurities that you would find in a petroleum based oil, the oil
30:51
filter can go 2X, 3X, 5X, like you're claiming in a lot of these cases.
30:56
We have not looked at oil filters as a limiting factor.
31:00
In any such way, however, like in anything, if you understand quality
31:05
brands and quality reputations, there's almost as much bench
31:08
racing on filters as there is oil.
31:10
I don't have a recommendation for anybody yet.
31:12
You're right.
31:13
There's different qualities of oil filters, even within
31:15
the same brand sometimes.
31:17
So that's really kind of pick your poison in that case.
31:19
But I like what I'm hearing because it sounds like it's.
31:22
Basically a drag and drop replacement.
31:23
You don't have to change anything else other than the oil that you're putting
31:26
in your engine, and that's probably going to take two full change cycles for
31:30
your a hundred percent on the evolved product because of just the mixture and
31:34
the residue and what's left in the motor, or do you guys have some sort of flush
31:38
that you recommend that should be done before switching over, you know, you don't
31:41
need to do a flush with our products.
31:43
You'll see the gains right away, the residue completely compatible
31:47
and we'll blend with our products.
31:48
It's not material to what's happening in that engine relatively to the
31:52
total amount of liquid in the engines.
31:54
I'd probably be a better salesman if I told you to buy one case of oil,
31:58
plus your car with it, then use it.
32:00
You know, but no, you don't need to do that.
32:02
Whatever you're using now, just try us.
32:04
You'll be quite amazed, I'm sure.
32:06
You mentioned something earlier about how the oil can be
32:09
recycled with traditional oils.
32:11
And that's great because you know, you stick it in the big bin, you
32:14
take it to your local landfill that might have a oil recycling center or
32:17
something like that, which is what we have a lot here on the East coast.
32:20
But I also dove into the website and it mentioned several times biodegradable.
32:25
And my limited understanding of biodegradable is I can leave it out
32:28
in the environment and it will just decompose and return to the earth.
32:31
Are you saying I can take the evolved product and just
32:34
kind of pour it in my lawn?
32:36
Nope, you can't do that.
32:38
And we don't want anybody to do that, of course.
32:40
So, you know, I think there's terms like readily and inherently biodegradable.
32:45
So understand that a lot of the environmental remediation with fluids,
32:49
anything that has hydraulics, like garbage trucks, any kind of farm
32:52
equipment, things like that, where a hydraulic line either leaks or breaks.
32:57
And that's what we know about hydraulic systems for the most part.
32:59
They either leak or eventually you have a line break and
33:02
that fluid gets to the ground.
33:04
Really, the benefit of the Evolv hydraulic oils is there's no remediation necessary
33:09
because the hydraulic oil meets all the fish toxicity tests and is biodegradable
33:14
because there's such a small percentage of additive in the hydraulic oil.
33:18
Now that changes a little bit as you get into the heavier and thicker
33:22
viscosities, the ISO 68s and 46.
33:25
The way that you can tell that is there's a, either a radiocarbon test
33:28
or an ASTM test that will say, Hey, did this product come from petroleum or not?
33:33
What we look to do is to make the products as environmentally safe as we
33:37
can, at the same time, being able to actually outperform petroleum products.
33:42
So that brings up a question.
33:44
I've always wondered about lubricants and since you guys are.
33:47
Basically starting from ground zero, is there the possibility to have
33:52
a coagulant in an oil that would basically stop a leak if it contacts
33:57
oxygen or something like that?
33:58
So kind of mitigate that leak scenario you were just talking about.
34:01
I guess the best way to put this is viscosity improvers and viscosity
34:04
modifiers at certain high levels really take away on the performance side.
34:10
The answer is, I mean, you can put all kinds of things in oil.
34:13
And, you know, certain esters help stop leaking, I think, in the early
34:16
days of, of synthetic engine oils.
34:18
And so, yes, the answer is, you can do that, but can you do it
34:22
and still have high performance, or the highest performance?
34:25
And we like the engine oil in the engine, and so typically leaks are something
34:30
that we need to fix or do whatever.
34:32
So, yeah, that's We try not to design the fluids around the engine
34:35
builders, lack of lock tight on a seal or something like that.
34:38
So no, and that's a very valid point you bring up.
34:41
And that's actually what I was alluding to, which is some of the
34:43
older engines for folks that, you know, haven't torn into, they've got
34:48
that numbers matching all original.
34:50
And, you know, that car was designed to run.
34:53
Quaker State, 1550 from 35, 40 years ago, that type of deal.
34:57
And you see that all the time.
34:59
Somebody switches to a synthetic oil and suddenly the whole
35:02
motor leaks like a sieve.
35:03
Obviously there's a difference there, even in the chemical composition and
35:06
like you said, those viscosity modifiers that exist between the conventional
35:10
regular oils and the synthetics.
35:12
Have you guys compensated for that?
35:14
That's what I'm getting at is if you do make that switch in that
35:16
vintage Ferrari or Porsche or, or Audi or whatever it is, that it's
35:20
not suddenly gonna cause a problem.
35:22
I'm in more vintage race cars with engines over 1, 000, 000 at the
35:25
Monterey Historics and such than I am in passenger cars at this moment.
35:29
Ultimately, what you want is the film strength thickness to protect the wear
35:34
surfaces under very high heat conditions.
35:37
You're looking at the molecule not to shear basically and thicken up on
35:42
itself and do these kinds of things and your additives fall out of suspension.
35:46
From a perspective.
35:47
Thank you.
35:47
Of engine protection.
35:49
Most of our customers understand that the chemistry work has been done.
35:53
The testing has been done by one of the best halo brands in the world.
35:57
And we've really brought to market something truly remarkable.
36:02
If you put this engine oil, it's not going to leak in your car.
36:05
If it does leak, it's not because of the oil.
36:07
Uh, so I can tell you that much.
36:10
You didn't tighten something.
36:11
For the enthusiasts out there, especially in let's say some of the late model world
36:17
in the drag racing world where they're still actually using leaded fuels.
36:22
Now, like you said early on in the conversation, there's always that
36:24
opportunity for some blow by there's some mixture between the fuel and the oil.
36:29
How does the evolved products interact or how do they interoperate with the fuel?
36:35
A leaded fuel, if that is introduced into the system, for
36:37
some reason, it operates great.
36:39
Leaded fuel usually is all about the valve train, right?
36:43
And the wear there.
36:44
And our oils perform extremely well on these tablet surfaces that are, have
36:48
DLC coatings, these flat tablet cams and other internal parts that have
36:53
extremely high wear types of issues.
36:56
It's the ability of this product to actually withstand the heat.
37:00
Where many of our other competitors just can't compete, you know,
37:04
based on the high sheer numbers.
37:06
So the answer that, yeah, I mean, most of these race cars are using leaded fuel.
37:09
Rick, I got to ask you this.
37:11
I am really curious to try the e corsa product in my race cars and
37:16
probably the evo cinema, my street cars, but you know how us petrol
37:19
heads can be, we're brand loyal.
37:21
You get used to something.
37:22
You like the way it works.
37:23
You like the way the motor sounds, you're getting the numbers that you think you're
37:26
supposed to be getting things like that.
37:27
Yeah.
37:27
People go all in on products.
37:29
So you made mentioned earlier, you have a small engine product.
37:32
You've used it in the aerospace or in airplanes before things like that.
37:36
So is there a line of evolved lubricant products that are
37:40
designed for motorcycles, for boats?
37:41
Like we talked about lawn equipment, two strokes, and maybe
37:44
the occasional Mazda rotary.
37:46
Is there something for everyone when it comes to the catalog?
37:49
There is.
37:49
And so just to correct you, we don't do anything airplanes.
37:52
Although we could, typically the poor points or issues for aerospace are
37:56
quite different in the design of those fluids because of cold temperatures.
38:00
Airplanes based on the insurance stuff is we've kind of stayed away from that.
38:04
Although we have some stunt pilot friends and guys who are begging us to make oil
38:07
for their Lycoming's and other engines.
38:09
So, and to answer yes, we have one of the largest box stores.
38:13
in the United States has completed their testing on our small engine
38:17
oils and two stroke engine oils that we make will be going into their
38:22
rental fleets across the country.
38:23
So we're pretty excited about those things.
38:26
We'll have lots of press releases and things like that.
38:28
Widescale adoption from some of the manufacturers that make this
38:31
equipment for them based on these test results on the motorcycle.
38:35
We do make a 10 W 40 motorcycle.
38:37
Speck wet clutch racing oil and six or seven folks that are
38:41
running, you know, our decals out there in the super bike races.
38:45
I'm trying to think it's MA2, Speck, Jazzo, Speck wet clutch formulation.
38:50
So you mentioned something sort of important there in terms of it's
38:53
going to be in a rental fleet.
38:55
It's going to be the big box store.
38:57
So a lot of engine compartments these days, if you open the hood and you look
39:00
carefully, you open the hood of a mini, for example, and you see Castrol, or
39:04
you open a Corvette and it says mobile one, like right from the factory.
39:07
So are we going to see evolve on the oil cap of a manufacturer coming up soon?
39:12
I hope so.
39:13
You know, it's always the goal, I think, to see those things, but understand
39:17
that those are large dollar placements.
39:19
Generally, those companies aren't buying oil from the oil companies.
39:22
They're taking money from the oil companies to be that factory fill.
39:26
So the factory fill business is quite unique.
39:29
One of the things that take aways with this renewable product is we can help
39:34
these OEs design tighter tolerances and actually get to better CAFE standards,
39:40
the newer increased CAFE standards out there where they're calling for 8 percent
39:45
gain on the fuel mileage and things.
39:47
We can help them get halfway there.
39:49
Just by switching to the lubricant, being part of the design of new engines
39:53
and things like that is a goal of ours.
39:55
We're very fortunate that Porsche was willing to take a hard look
40:00
because they really do care about the environment and they really do care
40:03
about keeping their cars on the road.
40:05
We felt very aligned with them relative to wanting to be a factory fill.
40:11
You know, how can you blame the relationship they've had?
40:14
That's been a good one for so many years.
40:15
With their current oil company.
40:17
So we hope one day to enjoy those kinds of relationships with the OEs.
40:22
And you said, just to reiterate for our audience that are probably now
40:26
scouring the web to figure out where they can get Evolved Lubricant products.
40:30
So you said right now you can order right off the website,
40:32
have it delivered to your door.
40:33
That's the only way to get the E Corsa or the EvoSim at the moment, right?
40:39
Right now we've been doing direct shipments.
40:41
We have about 12 dealers in the country.
40:43
We're growing our distribution base.
40:45
We have had discussions with larger distribution models and stores and
40:50
things like that and are looking at the best way to make this
40:53
available to the general public.
40:55
I would say we're very, very close to these distribution deals and I
40:59
think consumers will see them in very convenient places where they can also get
41:04
recommendations from folks that are good.
41:07
But keep in mind that the internet's been this wonderful thing for
41:09
compressing the direct consumer space.
41:12
It's pretty amazing.
41:12
You can see something.
41:14
On the internet and you just click a couple buttons and it's
41:16
on your doorstep in two days.
41:17
So pretty cool setup and oil weighs about 25 pounds.
41:21
So it's great not to have to lug it around and the delivery will
41:24
come right to your doorstep.
41:25
Are the oils priced by weight or just priced by the type?
41:29
Levosyn versus Ecorso.
41:31
What's the average, let's say, price per liter?
41:33
Or court, I guess, for those of us here in the States for a bottle of
41:36
the product, we are priced about 20 to 25 percent higher than the top
41:42
tier synthetic engine oil out there.
41:44
And you're going to see that price anywhere from about 18
41:47
and 19 a bottle per court.
41:48
When you start to even think about the fuel savings in a passenger car, it pays
41:52
for itself with the fuel mileage savings using our products from the longer
41:56
drain interval scale side of things.
41:58
Certainly the products lasting twice as long.
42:01
So.
42:02
We feel like we've got a great price point and, you know, it's a
42:05
binary choice where you don't have to make a sacrifice to go green.
42:08
Basically, you get better performance than what you're doing now.
42:11
And Oh, by the way, Hey, you're actually doing something to help the planet.
42:15
So curiosity, if we do order a couple of cases of this stuff,
42:18
start running on the race cars.
42:20
Does every case come with some stickers?
42:21
Cause you know how us race car guys love stickers.
42:23
Cause yeah, we do.
42:24
Yeah, we're trying to put together a contingency program.
42:28
I mean, we've sponsored race programs, open wheel racing in the past,
42:31
formula racing, things like that.
42:33
We have an interest in it.
42:34
My son races formula Atlantic cars.
42:36
You know, one of our board members is big in the Atlantic car world.
42:39
You know, I have a Porsche race car and we're club racers, right?
42:43
I mean, I raced in the Utah Grand Prix as a professional only because nobody else
42:47
showed up and they called me, Hey, you know, this track really well come out.
42:50
So, you know, I got my whole weekend of Pro racing and I can say, well,
42:54
I'm a professional race car driver.
42:55
Now we're serious club guys and, you know, racing is our life and cars are our life
43:00
and we wouldn't want to make anything.
43:02
What we, we went in our, our cars.
43:04
And if I had a nine 17 Porsche that was worth 20 million, I wouldn't
43:08
put anything, but this oil on it.
43:09
And I bring that up because, you know, it's always fun to be the
43:12
guy in the paddock that people go, what are you running in that?
43:15
Is that how you got the advantage, you know, and then that actually starts
43:17
to build that groundswell from a grassroots perspective too, you know,
43:21
believe me with a 12 horsepower gain.
43:23
I always tell every racer, I say, Hey, you know, if I gave you a 10th
43:26
of a second, every corner, would you take it a hundred percent?
43:29
And everybody says, yes.
43:31
Absolutely, everybody says yes.
43:32
And I said, well, would you change your oil to do it?
43:35
And they said, well, I got to ask my engine builder.
43:37
And I'm like, really?
43:38
There is a little bit of a concept of saying, hey, racing, sometimes it's kind
43:42
of migrated into renting the track with my six buddies who have McLarens and that's
43:47
racing, there's different parts of where racing is, and then there's other guys
43:51
who, if that engine breaks, the second it crosses the finish line, First place.
43:55
It's okay.
43:55
As long as we won, you know, there's a lot of different folks out there and
43:58
most of the people in our world, they don't want to break their engines because
44:02
it's really super expensive to do so.
44:04
So we built a product that first of all, protects number one, their investment
44:08
grade vehicles, typically, and.
44:10
We think once the people get the horsepower gain, they're going
44:13
to kind of keep it to themselves.
44:15
So that's one of the challenges.
44:17
Nobody says, Oh, Hey, I'm getting all this great new horsepower out of this oil.
44:21
We just selectively go to the back of the pack and give guys oil.
44:24
So that's kind of fun for us.
44:26
Speaking of helping the planet and the recent evolution that's been going on
44:31
and then, you know, the scary things that we keep hearing in the news just
44:35
recently, California, we're going to ban the sale of ice vehicles by 2035
44:40
and, you know, bands in Europe of diesel and this, that and the other.
44:44
Do you see that as an obstacle to your business or what are
44:47
your thoughts on the evolution?
44:49
Sure.
44:50
Shell Oil at the World Engine Congress talked about the percentage of battery
44:54
electric vehicles by 2050 that will be completed and the percentage was
45:00
relatively lower than I thought.
45:01
We still have a lot of years of working with the internal combustion engine.
45:05
I can tell you that a combination of renewable synthetic fuels
45:09
and renewable engine oils.
45:12
Now we have a solution to save the internal combustion engine.
45:17
There's an awful lot of people who actually do not want to see the
45:20
internal combustion engine go away, and some of those manufacturers are
45:25
eager to learn more about our products.
45:27
I think the combination of those two products will help propel the internal
45:31
combustion engine to have its role.
45:34
Electric vehicles have their role as well.
45:36
There's ups and downs.
45:37
I mean, you could get into all of the carbon intensity arguments
45:41
and discussions about it.
45:42
I wouldn't bet against Elon Musk.
45:44
That's my personal thoughts.
45:45
I like the concepts, and he was right.
45:48
Petroleum was a well executed, terrible idea a hundred years ago.
45:52
You know, there's a lot of things that we can do to make a difference right now.
45:56
You Today, and you can do it without sacrificing performance.
46:00
So why wouldn't you do it?
46:01
You know, from a cost perspective, it's right in line with what you're doing.
46:04
Now, I like that.
46:05
A well executed terrible idea.
46:07
Isn't that the same thing I say about the nine 11, you know, whatever.
46:09
I'll leave that where it is.
46:11
I will not pick on that car at all.
46:13
I just wish they weren't twice with the sticker was on the GT three.
46:16
That's my only problem.
46:18
So Rick, I want to give you the opportunity for any shout outs,
46:21
promotions, or anything else you'd like to share that we didn't cover thus far.
46:25
Well, I'd like to tell you that, and every one of your folks, it's
46:28
about eliminating fear, uncertainty, and doubt in this process.
46:32
And so.
46:32
One of the things that we've done is we have a $1 million engine warranty program
46:37
on every engine that our oil goes into.
46:39
So peace of mind is really important.
46:41
We've never lost an engine because of oil failures, and we don't think we ever will,
46:46
but just in case you have that coverage as a consumer, I think that's important.
46:50
To at least let folks know.
46:52
The other thing is to try it and we haven't had anybody who's
46:55
tried it and has switched back.
46:56
So that's a great thing.
46:58
We know that this is something that I think a lot of people have interest
47:01
in and they can do so knowing that the most expensive vehicles from the
47:06
Ferrari that won pebble beach last year was running that oil with Patrick Otis
47:10
as a dealer in the Bay area to Bruce Canepa, who runs these engine oils and
47:15
all of his race cars and passenger cars.
47:17
To other large, iconic folks who sat down and looked at the very best
47:22
and said, Hey, this is remarkable.
47:23
This is really great.
47:24
I want to be part of this.
47:26
Evolve lubricants is unlike any other oil company on the planet.
47:29
While many other manufacturers continue down the road of using petroleum in their
47:33
products, Evolve saw a different approach to better performance and sustainability,
47:37
maximum protection, and more.
47:39
Zero guilt.
47:39
Non petroleum lubricants for automotive and industrial applications, using
47:43
renewable and sustainable plant based materials for outstanding performance.
47:48
To learn more about Evolve Lubricants revolutionary offering for street and
47:51
track use, be sure to log on to www.
47:54
EvolveLube.
47:56
com or follow them on social at EvoSinOil and at E Corsa Motorsport.
48:02
Well, Rick, I cannot thank you enough.
48:04
For coming on break fix and sharing your corner of the motorsport and vehicle
48:10
enthusiast world with our audience.
48:12
This is incredible stuff.
48:13
This is revolutionary technology.
48:15
And I can't plead enough with our audience.
48:18
Like you said, don't think about it.
48:20
Don't try it.
48:21
We would say, just send it.
48:22
You gotta get your hands on this oil, put it in the car and see
48:26
for yourself what the results are.
48:27
So I think I'm convinced.
48:29
I think I'm gonna have to put an order in tonight.
48:31
No problem.
48:32
And the thing is, we got to that mentality just by.
48:34
because there's a lot of things out there, but everybody comes back after
48:38
putting it in and says, Hey, I'm getting way better fuel mileage in my car.
48:42
And yeah, we told you so.
48:43
And the racers, you know, come back and say, Hey, my operating temperatures
48:46
are down a little bit and the car seems to be making more power.
48:49
And well, it is, it's working less hard.
48:51
Your oil pump is working less hard as well.
48:54
We have made something quite unique and we're very, very proud of it.
48:57
Well, thank you.
48:58
Thank you very much.
48:59
Thank you.
49:00
Well, I enjoyed our discussion.
49:01
Thanks for having us.
49:02
Thank you.
49:03
All right.
49:03
Well, we'll see you.
49:09
If you like what you've heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check
49:12
us out on www dot gt motorsports dot org.
49:16
You can also find us on instagram at grand touring motorsports.
49:19
Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call
49:24
or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.
49:31
org.
49:31
We'd love to hear from you.
49:33
Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here.
49:36
We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted
49:39
to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization.
49:44
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