Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Remarkable World Commentary Episode #45: Interview with Velvet Lacasse, Elementary Education Teacher, Kawartha Pine Ridge District School | Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA

Transcript

Remarkable World Commentary Episode #45: Interview with Velvet Lacasse, Elementary Education Teacher, Kawartha Pine Ridge District School | Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

• 0:12
  Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA,
• 0:18
  invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast,
• 0:22
  Remarkable World Commentary.
• 0:24
  Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts,
• 0:27
  insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners.
• 0:31
  Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids,
• 0:35
  especially kids with disabilities.
• 0:38
  Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach,
• 0:42
  dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur,
• 0:46
  law graduate, and podcast commentator.
• 0:49
  She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge,
• 0:53
  skills, and expertise in access technology and information.
• 0:58
  As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles,
• 1:02
  she just wants to make things better than possible.
• 1:07
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary.
• 1:14
  I am Donna Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly
• 1:22
  through sound, through touch and stubborn optimism.
• 1:27
  I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant,
• 1:32
  author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind.
• 1:39
  You may know me from a few headline moments.
• 1:43
  In November of 2010, I won the Landmark Charter case that forced the Canadian
• 1:50
  government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian,
• 1:55
  not just the sighted Ones, and in July of 2019,
• 2:01
  I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn
• 2:08
  equal access into federal law.
• 2:12
  And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was humbled by Her Late Majesty's
• 2:20
  Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers.
• 2:27
  When I'm not in a courtroom or a committee room or pottery studio,
• 2:33
  you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss,
• 2:37
  producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their
• 2:43
  gadgets talk back in plain language.
• 2:47
  Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from afterthought into everyday
• 2:56
  practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench where policy meets
• 3:04
  lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas.
• 3:11
  Now, before we jump into today's conversation,
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  let me shine a spotlight on today's guest and changemaker,
• 3:22
  whose work is every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build.
• 3:29
  I am delighted today to welcome Velvet Lucas,
• 3:32
  who I met many years ago when she and her her coworker Shannon Green decided to join our
• 3:41
  charter challenge. Campaign.
• 3:44
  Velvet, welcome to our show.
• 3:48
  Thank you so.
• 3:48
  Velvet Lacasse: Much, Donna. I am delighted and honored to be here.
• 3:53
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well, it is my pleasure.
• 3:55
  And I want to start with this.
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  So, velvet, to set the scene for listeners who may be meeting you for the first time,
• 4:05
  could you describe the personal journey that shaped you into what you call a social
• 4:15
  justice elementary educator?
• 4:20
  Velvet Lacasse: Yes. Thank you Donna. So my name is Velvet Lacasse.
• 4:24
  I think that my journey begins with my grandmother.
• 4:27
  Her name was Lucienne Lacasse and she grew up in Rimouski,
• 4:32
  Quebec. And I think that she, for me, will always be a role model of a
• 4:39
  woman who is brave, who is strong and who is willing to take risks to care for her
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  family. So she left Quebec when she was pregnant with my mother,
• 4:54
  which took a lot of courage, I think at the time.
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  In the early 50s, she moved to Toronto and gave birth to my mom and became a fierce
• 5:05
  advocate in my life for feminism and love.
• 5:10
  And and I'm I'm always grateful to her for teaching me about the power of sharing your
• 5:19
  own story. My mom was a quite a young mother.
• 5:24
  She had me when she was 18 years old.
• 5:28
  And then she gave birth to my younger sister,
• 5:30
  Jolene. We grew up in downtown Toronto, and my father was deaf,
• 5:36
  blind. And I think that growing up with a father who had a disability sort of opened up
• 5:44
  the world to me in terms of seeing the world through the lens of accessibility and
• 5:50
  inclusion and barriers.
• 5:52
  And I was always very protective very cautious.
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  I was, because I was the older child, the one who did a lot of the communicating
• 6:04
  and sort of reading the world for my father.
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  But he was very independent.
• 6:09
  He did a lot of his own advocacy for deaf, blind Canadians,
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  and we heard a lot about his frustrations and also some of his triumphs.
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  And then my mom and my dad split up when I was seven,
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  and then my mom came out as a lesbian and surrounded herself with really wonderful kind
• 6:35
  community. And I think being raised in a culture that was alternative or marginalized
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  also opened my eyes to the experiences of homophobia and discrimination,
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  and there was a lot of silence surrounding the experience of same sex families.
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  It wasn't discussed at schools.
• 7:00
  And that can that can create a little bit of shame or a lot of shame.
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  And so when I grew up I was determined to break that silence.
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  And I think that when I became an educator, I realized that I had the opportunity to to
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  celebrate diversity and queer joy and and break that silence not only to heal my
• 7:27
  own younger self and the experiences that I may have felt,
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  but also to affirm the identities of children and families and staff that I was
• 7:38
  encountering in schools.
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  So I think that becoming a social justice educator sort of came naturally by growing up
• 7:47
  in relationship and community and family.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I, I am simply impressed.
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  I, I didn't know these things about you and I'm glad to learn it.
• 7:59
  And I'm I'm really, really impressed.
• 8:01
  Thank you for sharing.
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  Now, growing up in Toronto's queer activist community and with the deaf blind father
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  clearly influenced your world view, right?
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  How did those early experiences translate into the way that you now design classroom
• 8:27
  spaces and learning experiences?
• 8:35
  Velvet Lacasse: It's a wonderful question, Donna.
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  I have been thinking a lot about about this, about how we,
• 8:42
  you know, about who we become and how we we use our earlier experiences to Yeah.
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  To create, to create change.
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  So I think that for me, I've been thinking a lot about that sense of
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  belonging and how critical it is for young people to feel that they belong,
• 9:03
  to feel like they are included and to feel like their identities are celebrated with joy
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  and pride and and that those experiences of resistance are used to to educate all of us
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  about the kind of world we want to live in and how we might move forward together in a
• 9:26
  good way. So I think that my classrooms are designed to nurture and create that sense of
• 9:33
  belonging. There's a lot of collaborative learning.
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  There's a lot of encouraging young people to be self-reflective,
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  to to share their feelings, to share their ideas,
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  to learn how to communicate and listen actively.
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  And also to support young people to develop skills for advocacy so that they can see
• 9:58
  themselves as change makers.
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  So I think I try to bring a lot of hope into the classroom.
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  I also want to teach young people to be critical thinkers.
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  But primarily I've come to believe that relationships are the curriculum.
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  And if we can teach young people to be in relationship with each other in ways that are
• 10:23
  kind and inclusive and respectful, I think that that goes a long way to changing
• 10:31
  the world.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I agree with you there.
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  And I think that, you know, like you've had so many variables in your
• 10:39
  life to help you become who you are and I really admire that.
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  So so.
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  Velvet Lacasse: So.
• 10:47
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So. Thank you. Our friendship began in 2010 when your grade five students wrote to the
• 10:56
  Prime Minister about my web accessibility lawsuit.
• 11:02
  What prompted you and your colleague Shannon,
• 11:07
  to involve the class in that national conversation,
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  and what lasting lessons did the students take away?
• 11:21
  Velvet Lacasse: Well, I met Shannon when we started working at a very special school in Toronto called
• 11:27
  the Grove Community School, and it was a brand new alternative school
• 11:31
  that had started the first of its kind in Ontario that centers,
• 11:37
  that teaches the Ontario curriculum, but centers,
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  equity, social justice, community activism and environmental
• 11:44
  sustainability. And so we both joined that school when it was quite new because we
• 11:51
  wanted to be part of creating something that was alternative.
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  And I think we both had a passion for transforming education so that it could be
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  you know, just really reflective of what we believed to be true in terms of what young
• 12:12
  people and their families need because we know that schools tend to be colonial
• 12:17
  institutions. There's a lot of systemic discrimination that has taken place.
• 12:22
  There are issues of access and equity that make it challenging for all students to feel
• 12:27
  successful. And I think Shannon and I were looking for ways to to break that cycle and
• 12:35
  to create innovative curriculum that that really centered issues of accessibility and
• 12:43
  equity. And part of the Ontario curriculum at that time was especially in the primary
• 12:49
  years. There were there was science curriculum around learning about our five
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  senses. And we were thinking about experiential opportunities where kids could
• 12:58
  experience what it's like to be without one of their senses.
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  And we did, you know, a blind trust blindfold trust,
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  walk in partners. We we we encourage we challenge the students to use scooter boards
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  and, you know, travel with their family, with their partner from the third floor of
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  the school out to the playground.
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  And along the way, we wanted them to identify barriers that they encountered.
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  And so having those experiences of being able to you know,
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  to, to to move without without sight to to try to navigate stairs or thresholds
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  between, you know, doors and hallways.
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  When you, when you're, when you're on a scooter was very revealing
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  for them, I think. And so we were sort of at the beginning of exploring senses through the
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  experience of, of not having one of your senses and adapting and,
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  you know, feeling, noticing how things were different and whether,
• 14:04
  like you said, you see the world through sound and through your optimism and through
• 14:08
  your hands, like what other senses were becoming more clear.
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  And then I happen to come across an article in the Toronto Star that had your picture and
• 14:20
  information about the charter challenge, and I cut it out immediately and brought it
• 14:24
  to Shannon and thought, this is an amazing opportunity to make those
• 14:28
  real world connections to have students think about technology,
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  which is something that, you know, it's hard for us to understand as
• 14:37
  older folks. But you know, young people are are exposed to technology at
• 14:43
  very young ages and might not have thought about issues of access or how other people
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  might be able to interact with technology.
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  So it was just this perfect opportunity.
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  And so we started to explore your story.
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  And I think Shannon reached out to you directly.
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  And we started communicating.
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  And we were able to bring you into the school,
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  and we were able to be part of supporting supporting the campaign,
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  which really gave students a voice and also a wonderful role model.
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  So you became this friend who we were, you know watching and supporting and cheering
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  on. And we were, you know, so thrilled to to learn that you were
• 15:34
  successful and to celebrate that with you.
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  And I think that in terms of lasting lessons,
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  I mean being able to visit with you again, I think it was ten years later on the
• 15:45
  anniversary was amazing.
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  And then we had older students teaching younger students about the experience.
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  But I think that we were able to teach students about the importance of activism and
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  advocacy to help them believe that they could be change makers and really recognize the
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  privilege that we have when we are able to access the world around us.
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  Right. That technology is a privilege and not everyone has equal access.
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  And so the work that you were doing was just was just amazing.
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  And we were so so grateful that we were able to to connect with you and be a part of your
• 16:33
  journey.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think for me, I was just blown away by these kids and their innocence and how much
• 16:40
  they knew and how much intuition they had.
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  And there is one question.
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  I don't remember the little boy's name, but I really had to stop myself from smiling
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  when he said, my mom says that Harper is a fool.
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  What do you think? And I thought, oh no, no,
• 16:57
  no. Hey, I can't remember his name, but I, I just died.
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  Velvet Lacasse: I love it, I love it. Yeah.
• 17:07
  I mean, these were very informed Young people,
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  because their, their parents were very political.
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  And I love it. I mean, I just love that they had that sense.
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  And you're right, that that young people are innocent.
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  And sometimes these complicated issues are really very simple,
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  that everyone should have access to what they need.
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  And, you know, you can, you know, we can you can get young if you can
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  get young children to understand this.
• 17:34
  Then why can't you know politicians understand this as well?
• 17:40
  Yeah.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now you founded the Grove Community Community School,
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  Canada's first public alternative schools.
• 17:51
  Center on environmental justice and equity.
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  What were the biggest hurdles in bringing that visionary model to life and how did you
• 18:07
  overcome them.
• 18:11
  Velvet Lacasse: Well I mean it was such it was a labor of love for sure.
• 18:17
  I think some of the challenges were high expectations of families who were really
• 18:24
  hoping for an alternative vision.
• 18:28
  And then when you're working within a system that lacks imagination and really tries to
• 18:35
  sometimes feels threatened by innovation or alternative ideas because it threatens you
• 18:44
  know, notions of yeah, I guess holding on to control you know,
• 18:52
  in terms of encouraging student voice that can be threatening to that model of education
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  where the teacher has all of the knowledge and the student is just a passive recipient.
• 19:05
  And we really wanted to be part of, of empowering young people to find their
• 19:11
  voice and to and to develop pride and to develop skills that will allow them to speak
• 19:17
  out on issues of injustice.
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  So some of the challenges, I think were systemic you know,
• 19:24
  an administrator who is kind of old fashioned traditional values high expectations of
• 19:31
  parents who were really impatient.
• 19:35
  Okay. I think there was a, you know, everybody wanted something
• 19:39
  different. And we were trying very hard to create a process for collaboration.
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  I think some of the, some of the most important lessons I learned are it's
• 19:51
  important to have a shared vision and it needs to include many different voices.
• 19:57
  So stakeholders that are, you know, the, the children,
• 20:00
  the parents, the staff, the community members,
• 20:02
  the admin everyone needs to be able to contribute and feel like their voices are
• 20:07
  heard. But that shared vision is so critical to keeping everyone focused.
• 20:12
  And then you need a process for how how are we going to collaborate?
• 20:16
  How will we make decisions?
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  What happens when we disagree?
• 20:20
  How can we ensure that there's a structure in place to support the work that we want to do
• 20:27
  and, and that evolved over time.
• 20:29
  But those were some very challenging conversations,
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  but also very courageous conversations.
• 20:35
  And I learned a lot. I think one of the one of the important things that I have come to
• 20:41
  recognize about myself is that the teaching of humility and for me,
• 20:47
  that means being open to open to learning and recognizing that I'm also on a learning
• 20:52
  journey. And in order for me to be open to learning,
• 20:57
  I need to listen. And I need to listen deeply.
• 21:00
  And and I also need to consider different perspectives.
• 21:04
  And sometimes that means I need to step back and support others.
• 21:10
  Others to step forward.
• 21:13
  So I think that that quality of humility those teachings really,
• 21:19
  I hold on to those today because I think that they do really serve me and guide me in my,
• 21:24
  in my work. So I also think that one of the one of the things I learned about The Grove
• 21:31
  is an approach to care that's collective.
• 21:35
  And I think that when you think of being part of a community and you really think about
• 21:41
  caring for everyone in that community and thinking about like we said before,
• 21:46
  about busting barriers, but also centering accessibility.
• 21:51
  Like, what does community look like when we put accessibility at the center?
• 21:57
  How does that shift the way we conduct meetings?
• 22:01
  How does that, you know, shift the way you know,
• 22:05
  all of it, how we create opportunities for whole school events or curriculum or I mean,
• 22:13
  all of it becomes quite interesting around, like,
• 22:17
  how do we ensure that everyone has a sense of belonging,
• 22:20
  but that everyone can participate in a way that's meaningful?
• 22:23
  And I just I think that's what I carry with me moving forward is,
• 22:30
  you know, thinking about if we were to put accessibility at the center of all of our
• 22:35
  organizations and institutions and structures it would open everything up.
• 22:44
  And if we, if we consulted with people about what they needed in order to participate I
• 22:51
  think we would find our experiences richer because there would be more,
• 22:57
  more voices helping us to to kind of shape the organization or the community into one
• 23:06
  that meets the needs of everyone.
• 23:12
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, one of the Grove's signature traditions was Gender splendor week.
• 23:22
  Yeah. Complete with a student and her name was Kiki Paul.
• 23:28
  Run away. For educators listening to who want to foster gender inclusion,
• 23:37
  what practical first steps would you recommend?
• 23:44
  Velvet Lacasse: I mean, this is a wonderful question because I am very proud of the curriculum that we
• 23:50
  created that we called Gender Splendor.
• 23:54
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 23:54
  Velvet Lacasse: It was, you know, it is joyful.
• 23:58
  It's arts based. It is a celebration of the to LGBTQ community.
• 24:06
  It really confronts homophobia, transphobia and with,
• 24:13
  you know, really encourages everyone to think about how we can be intersectional in our
• 24:19
  approach to being an ally.
• 24:22
  And it has challenged all of us.
• 24:25
  Even those those of us who feel, you know, woke or very informed by by the
• 24:33
  queer community. I think that I've learned a lot.
• 24:37
  And I'm happy to share that learning with others.
• 24:39
  One of the things Shannon and I have done is,
• 24:43
  is shared gender splendor as a workshop with other educators,
• 24:48
  and we always talk about the importance of stories.
• 24:52
  And there are so many wonderful picture books out there that educators can use to help them
• 24:59
  guide the conversation.
• 25:01
  Because what I've learned is that there are a lot of educators who are afraid of the topic.
• 25:07
  There's a lot of fear.
• 25:08
  And then that fear makes people afraid to take those risks and to be brave.
• 25:14
  So one of the things I like to, you know, share with educators is I encourage
• 25:20
  them to to be brave, to trust that you know that this work is supported by the Ontario
• 25:26
  Human Rights Code, by the Education Act, that,
• 25:30
  you know, your union has your back.
• 25:32
  That you know, there will be you may encounter families that are unhappy,
• 25:39
  but they're not allowed to opt out, especially if you're integrating it
• 25:44
  throughout the curriculum throughout the year.
• 25:46
  So picture books are a wonderful entry point.
• 25:50
  Another one is like really simplifying the idea.
• 25:54
  The big ideas, like love makes a family and asking students to share stories about their
• 26:00
  families and then introducing the idea of same sex families or,
• 26:05
  you know, different different that families can have different shapes,
• 26:08
  but what makes them similar is that love makes a family.
• 26:12
  And then another introduction I find helpful is stereotypes because young people have have
• 26:20
  already been smothered in messaging around what it means to be a boy and what it means
• 26:26
  to be a girl. So when you start to invite young people to share their experiences and
• 26:33
  and to challenge, you know, question, where do those ideas come from?
• 26:38
  They come from our family, from the media, from,
• 26:41
  you know, from our friends, from, you know from society.
• 26:46
  And what do those messages tell us about how we should behave and dress and feel and,
• 26:52
  and what happens when we don't fit into those boxes?
• 26:57
  And it's in those moments that kids feel isolated or feel like something's wrong with
• 27:03
  them, feel like they don't belong.
• 27:05
  Sometimes they're victims of bullying and harassment.
• 27:08
  And and so what we're trying to do in gender splendor is create space for kids to be
• 27:15
  exactly who they are. And when we talk about gender,
• 27:18
  we say gender is what's in your heart.
• 27:22
  And and that concept is, is actually easier for young people to
• 27:28
  understand that it is for older people.
• 27:30
  We find that conversations about pronouns younger people just kind of like,
• 27:36
  oh, okay. And it's not a big deal.
• 27:39
  Often it's the adults, I think that are bringing their own
• 27:44
  childhoods into the, into the conversations and,
• 27:48
  and struggling. I think and this is a big generalization too,
• 27:52
  but it's, it's the adults I find that are having a harder time accepting you know,
• 27:58
  that, that, that, that there's no threat, you know,
• 28:01
  that that creating space for queer and trans youth and,
• 28:07
  you know, recognizing diverse families doesn't have to threaten heteronormativity,
• 28:13
  doesn't have to threaten patriarchy, doesn't have to.
• 28:16
  He doesn't have to be a threat. Right?
• 28:18
  We need the world needs more love.
• 28:20
  So And we want people to be happy.
• 28:23
  So I think that whenever you do gender inclusion work you know,
• 28:29
  try to try not to focus on, you know, statistics of,
• 28:34
  you know harassment or you know, the ways that you to LGBTQ youth are
• 28:41
  struggling with their mental health issues because you want to I mean,
• 28:46
  I think those stories are important, but you also want to create a lot of space
• 28:51
  for joy and you know, comfort and Yeah, love.
• 28:58
  I mean, I think at the center, I mean, what I'm also trying to center in my
• 29:03
  teaching is love in addition to access, because I think that that's definitely what
• 29:09
  we need more of.
• 29:13
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Now you're. First of all, I like that title,
• 29:17
  Gender Splendor. I love it.
• 29:20
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 29:22
  Velvet Lacasse: You love words.
• 29:25
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You're multi-age inquiry project.
• 29:29
  Seeds of change.
• 29:31
  Velvet Lacasse: Yes.
• 29:32
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Used water justice as an entry point.
• 29:38
  How did you guide young children to grapple with complex issues like global water
• 29:47
  inequality without overwhelming them?
• 29:53
  Velvet Lacasse: It's such a good question because that we talk a lot about this in education around
• 29:58
  climate anxiety and how young people are really struggling to make sense of the world.
• 30:07
  And to, to find that hope.
• 30:10
  And how can we talk to young people about climate change and about issues related to
• 30:17
  environmental racism or inequities that are, you know,
• 30:22
  that are impacting people in different ways around the world without overwhelming them or
• 30:29
  making them feel paralyzed, like there's nothing that they can do.
• 30:33
  So it comes back to, you know, whenever you're working with kids you need to
• 30:40
  give them the tools to to express themselves and to take action.
• 30:46
  So I think that Seeds of Change came out of a desire by Shannon and myself to explore
• 30:53
  environmental justice and also through through the process of inquiry,
• 30:58
  really asking kids to share.
• 31:00
  What do you notice? What do you wonder?
• 31:04
  What are your ideas about?
• 31:06
  You know, how we might respond.
• 31:09
  So I've been doing some of this work.
• 31:14
  I identify as a settler and thinking a lot about reconciliation and about what my role
• 31:22
  is as a settler on this land in terms of building relationships with land and building
• 31:30
  relationships with indigenous communities so that I can be a part of taking action towards
• 31:38
  reconciliation. And so I think water became this really wonderful opportunity to bring
• 31:47
  together a lot of these ideas and commitments.
• 31:51
  So we started with encouraging young people to think about their relationship with water.
• 31:59
  You know, to think of a memory, to think of an experience or an encounter
• 32:03
  they had with water and to share those stories.
• 32:06
  So again, we were beginning with storytelling and we were beginning with our own connection
• 32:12
  to nature. And what I've come to understand is if we can strengthen and really nurture
• 32:19
  our children's relationship to nature and their connection to nature,
• 32:23
  it will have an impact on how they care for nature,
• 32:28
  right? They will feel a sense of reciprocity and responsibility and respect because it's
• 32:36
  coming from a place of love.
• 32:38
  So one year we asked students to collect a jar of water from some place they had
• 32:46
  visited. So, you know, some kids had the opportunity to go to the
• 32:50
  ocean, you know, on the East Coast or some kids went to a splash pad and took some water
• 32:56
  from there. Other kids had the opportunity to go to a stream or a lake.
• 33:01
  And each each student shared their sample of water and stories connected to water.
• 33:08
  And that was, you know, we spent a lot of time sharing those stories.
• 33:14
  And then we started thinking about how is water important?
• 33:20
  You know, and we wrote letters to water.
• 33:22
  We actually wrote letters that said, dear water.
• 33:25
  Oh, yeah. And it was. They were very poetic, Donna.
• 33:29
  You would have loved them. And I had this vision that we would eventually turn those
• 33:34
  poems into songs, because there are we also introduce stories of water walkers.
• 33:42
  So these are, you know, women in First Nations community.
• 33:47
  There's a beautiful book called The Water Walker about Josephine Mandamin.
• 33:52
  And she was an Anishinaabe water walker.
• 33:55
  And she led women on these walks around all of the Great Lakes.
• 34:00
  And she did this to raise awareness about water and about access to clean water.
• 34:07
  So we read a few story picture books that introduced this idea of communities that
• 34:14
  might not have access to water.
• 34:16
  And again ask kids throughout the the inquiry to share their questions,
• 34:21
  share their concerns like and you know, they they get it.
• 34:28
  You know they, they see, you know, they have this wonderful sense of
• 34:32
  injustice and fairness.
• 34:34
  So there was this, you know, appropriate outrage that,
• 34:38
  you know, young people didn't have don't have access to clean water,
• 34:42
  which is still very true in Ontario and many places across Canada.
• 34:47
  But then we started to make connections about where are these communities that don't have
• 34:52
  access to clean water?
• 34:54
  And then suddenly you get these deeper conversations about,
• 34:58
  you know, colonization and, you know, I mean,
• 35:02
  white supremacy, which you depending on the age group,
• 35:05
  you may or may not discuss, but you know, why is it that First Nations
• 35:10
  communities on reserves don't have access to clean water?
• 35:13
  Well, it's because the Canadian government which was formed by English and French
• 35:19
  settlers, decided that they were better than,
• 35:22
  you know, that sense of being better than or superior to another group of people and,
• 35:28
  you know, allow them to discriminate against them.
• 35:32
  So once you have this sense that, like, water is a right,
• 35:35
  we all deserve to have clean water, suddenly there are communities not far from
• 35:40
  where we live that don't have clean water.
• 35:43
  Right? You know, we planted these seeds and then we also met just like when we were
• 35:49
  talking about you as an activist.
• 35:52
  We we talked about Autumn Peltier, who's the granddaughter of Josephine
• 35:58
  Mandamin, and she is another water activist, but she's quite young.
• 36:03
  And and so we were watching speeches that she made,
• 36:06
  and she actually met you know, the Prime minister,
• 36:10
  and she was really upset and visibly moved and demanded that he does more,
• 36:16
  you know, for her community.
• 36:17
  And so those those stories stirred something up in,
• 36:21
  in the students. And then they wanted to write letters.
• 36:25
  And again, so writing letters becomes part of activism and advocacy.
• 36:30
  We also attended a protest.
• 36:32
  We learned about and this would be difficult to do because they've changed some of the
• 36:37
  rules about this. But there there's a there's a community in Grassy Narrows First Nations
• 36:44
  community, and their water has been poisoned by mercury for years.
• 36:48
  And and this is causing all kinds of health issues.
• 36:53
  And the Canadian government is not doing anything about it.
• 36:57
  And so the youth came to Queen's Park and we listen to one of their songs,
• 37:03
  which was called Home to Me, and we learned their song and we went to
• 37:07
  Queen's Park, and we stood in solidarity with these young people to show our support.
• 37:13
  And we had signs. And, you know, I think being part of a larger
• 37:18
  movement I think helps young people to recognize that change happens when we can
• 37:25
  bring people together, when we have that shared vision certainly of
• 37:31
  justice or access and equity.
• 37:33
  And also when we hold people accountable.
• 37:36
  Right. Like, people with power need to be challenged.
• 37:39
  Just just like in your charter challenge, like the government has a responsibility to
• 37:44
  care for all Canadians, not just the ones that you know,
• 37:49
  are able to see or the ones that are able to,
• 37:52
  you know, that live in cities.
• 37:55
  But I think equal access means taking care of everyone and ensuring that they have what
• 38:01
  they need. So I feel like I think that's some of the those are some of the strategies that
• 38:07
  I've used. I also involve families because of course,
• 38:11
  you know, young people are overwhelmed as they consider climate as they as especially
• 38:18
  as they are exposed to events that are happening in the world.
• 38:22
  So it's also really important to involve families in these conversations so that they
• 38:27
  know about the conversations that we're having in schools,
• 38:30
  sharing resources with families and inviting them to join us when we have whole school
• 38:37
  events, like on World Water Day, we read our dear water letters out loud.
• 38:44
  We also used experiential learning.
• 38:46
  I had students carry buckets of water around the track to simulate you know,
• 38:53
  that there are lots of young, young girls and women who have to travel
• 38:58
  great distances to get to a clean water source.
• 39:02
  In other parts of the world.
• 39:03
  So they had that experience and I hope that that changes,
• 39:09
  you know, their perspective.
• 39:11
  And yeah, and eventually they'll begin to make connections and see how these inequities
• 39:18
  are part of larger systems that need to be that need to be.
• 39:24
  Well, I would say dismantled and transformed,
• 39:27
  but of course challenged in some way.
• 39:31
  Right. So yeah, that Seeds of Change is, is again another,
• 39:37
  another experience of, of collaboration that I feel very proud of.
• 39:42
  And yeah. Well hope, hope to continue in many different ways.
• 39:50
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Impressive. Very impressive.
• 39:52
  Velvet Lacasse: Thank you.
• 39:54
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now you have received honors such as the e t f o anti-bias award and the Edward.
• 40:04
  I hope I pronounced this correctly.
• 40:07
  Velvet Lacasse: Burtynsky.
• 40:08
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Burtynsky. Grand prize for invite environmental for Environmental education,
• 40:17
  which recognition has meant the most to you personally?
• 40:22
  And how has it fueled your next chapter of work?
• 40:29
  Velvet Lacasse: Well, it's very it's very flattering that you would highlight those awards.
• 40:34
  I mean, those awards were gifted to me because of the work that I did at The Grove.
• 40:40
  I love like you. I love to write, and I always encourage educators to write and
• 40:46
  write to document their stories, to document the amazing learning that's
• 40:51
  happening in their schools.
• 40:54
  And so I have been very privileged in that my writing has been shared.
• 40:58
  And so I'm proud of all of those accolades.
• 41:02
  And I was thinking about this question, and I was thinking that last year I had a
• 41:08
  really challenging year.
• 41:10
  I experienced a lot of homophobia in my school.
• 41:14
  And it was really painful.
• 41:19
  And there was a student in my class who let left a little note on my desk,
• 41:26
  and she had she had colored a rainbow, which is a symbol of the LGBTQ communities.
• 41:32
  And it said stay slave velvet.
• 41:37
  So that's like slang. Do you know that expression?
• 41:40
  Stay slay? Yes. Yeah. So slay.
• 41:43
  And so I actually think that that is an accolade.
• 41:46
  So I taped it to my laptop so that I could open it up and see that message every day,
• 41:53
  because to me it was a student in my class saying to me anonymously,
• 41:58
  I see you. You know, I I recognize you I want I support you,
• 42:07
  and I want you to keep going.
• 42:09
  So I think that's the kind of reward I think that is really going to fuel me because I'm
• 42:17
  not I'm not at the Grove anymore, and I definitely don't.
• 42:22
  You know, there's a moment in The Wizard of Oz where Dorothy says,
• 42:25
  we're not in Kansas anymore.
• 42:28
  Yeah, that's how I feel.
• 42:31
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. How old was this child that left?
• 42:34
  Velvet Lacasse: She. So she was ten. Yeah.
• 42:37
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow.
• 42:38
  Velvet Lacasse: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm grateful to her.
• 42:42
  And I'll keep that on my on, like.
• 42:45
  It's like an affirmation, right?
• 42:47
  A positive affirmation that I see every time I open up my laptop.
• 42:54
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well I see where our clock is beginning to tell me.
• 42:57
  And I leave this interview but I, I'd like to slip this question in and then
• 43:01
  ask you, you know to combine this with what's next for velvet Marcus.
• 43:07
  So after 12 years at the Grove you moved to Peterborough to teach in the.
• 43:16
  And I hope I have this right.
• 43:17
  Kawartha, Pine Ridge, is that right?
• 43:22
  District school board.
• 43:24
  Velvet Lacasse: You bet.
• 43:25
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What new opportunities and and challenges have emerged as you
• 43:34
  transplant your justice focused pedagogy into a more traditional setting?
• 43:41
  And what's next for you?
• 43:44
  Velvet Lacasse: Oh, and Donna, you are so wonderful with words like,
• 43:47
  I just love that idea of transplanting.
• 43:51
  I do feel like I have been uprooted.
• 43:54
  Peterborough is a much smaller community than Toronto.
• 43:58
  It's also much more rural.
• 43:59
  So some of my students were, you know, they were going fishing and hunting
• 44:03
  on the weekend, and that was something I couldn't relate to.
• 44:06
  And there are, you know, many rabbits that hop around in the,
• 44:10
  in the yard. And that's not something you would see in Toronto.
• 44:13
  So, no, I think that some of the challenges in a small town are,
• 44:19
  you know, there's a lack of diversity.
• 44:22
  And, and that means there's a lack of exposure.
• 44:25
  I'm not quite what they expect.
• 44:28
  I have a very short haircut right now, and you know,
• 44:32
  their idea of what it means to be a woman is someone with long hair who wears dresses.
• 44:36
  And sometimes I'm challenging what they expect.
• 44:42
  So they don't quite know what to make of me, but So that's been interesting.
• 44:47
  I feel very othered. I feel you know, I often am.
• 44:52
  I feel like the only queer person in my school.
• 44:56
  And that's quite different from the Grove.
• 44:59
  So and that can be isolating.
• 45:02
  But I have made an effort because I really crave community and connection.
• 45:06
  I have made an effort to meet people and to build new relationships.
• 45:12
  I'm very active in the union.
• 45:14
  I have found some really progressive and kind people here.
• 45:19
  Lots of artists, lots of activists.
• 45:22
  And I think that what's next for me is really trying to trust that that what I'm bringing
• 45:31
  to the school is enough that I want to be my authentic self.
• 45:35
  And you know, I every on the first day of school,
• 45:40
  I always wear this t shirt that I have that has a heart with,
• 45:44
  with the rainbow flag on it because I want to be a very visible ally.
• 45:50
  And I want to continue to do this work which is to be a social justice elementary
• 45:57
  educator. I want to support other educators to join me in this work,
• 46:02
  because I think this work is more powerful when we can bring other people into it.
• 46:08
  I think what's next is, is just caring for myself as I do this work
• 46:14
  because it can be exhausting.
• 46:18
  And so I think, you know, making sure that I'm balancing out how hard
• 46:25
  I'm working at school with lots of things that bring me joy,
• 46:28
  like music and singing and dancing or connecting with friends or walking with my
• 46:34
  dog because I think connecting with nature, like taking care of ourselves,
• 46:40
  is so important. And when you are an educator and an activist and you're always looking out
• 46:48
  and caring for others.
• 46:50
  I think we forget that self-care is a radical act,
• 46:54
  you know? And so I think Joy and, you know, just continuing to do the work that
• 47:01
  I do with joy and curiosity and compassion and gratitude.
• 47:08
  I think that's that's what I hope for myself.
• 47:11
  Health, too. You know, good health.
• 47:15
  And I hope the same for you.
• 47:16
  Donna, we're so grateful to you for all the work that you've done for all of all of the
• 47:23
  work that you're putting out into the world.
• 47:25
  The way that you invite all of us into your work.
• 47:29
  Thank you so much for this opportunity.
• 47:32
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: The pleasure has been mine, and it has been a privilege.
• 47:34
  And this has been a really, really refreshing interview.
• 47:40
  And I'd like to invite you to come back to us if you want to talk about anything else in
• 47:45
  the future. I think this is a motivational interview that that so many people need to
• 47:52
  listen to. I want to thank you, velvet, and I hope that,
• 47:57
  you know, one day we get to meet in person again.
• 48:00
  I don't know how this would be, but we could try and make it happen and I
• 48:04
  will be in touch with Shannon.
• 48:06
  So again, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
• 48:10
  Keep on going. Don't give up.
• 48:12
  Never give up.
• 48:14
  Velvet Lacasse: Okay, I'll do that. And thank you, Donna.
• 48:16
  You really are remarkable.
• 48:18
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you very much. You take care of velvet,
• 48:21
  and we'll talk soon.
• 48:22
  Velvet Lacasse: Okay. Bye.
• 48:23
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye. Bye bye.
• 48:28
  Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at Donna Jade at gmail.com.
• 48:35
  Until next time.