Latest / Andini Effendi / Penguasa Takut Rakyat Bicara Benar ft. Feri Amsari with Andini Effendi ep.120

Transcript

Penguasa Takut Rakyat Bicara Benar ft. Feri Amsari with Andini Effendi ep.120 · Andini Effendi

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We don't have a political party in Indonesia. There is?
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: There is a family business named after the party.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: What are the fears of the rulers with people who
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: think critically? The right words are always.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Feared by rulers who govern the country in the wrong way.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Ferry Amsari, Mensesnek, the cabinet version of Bayangan Republik Indonesia.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Thank you for joining me here. So, Mensesnek, Minister Secretary
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: of State in the Bayangan cabinet. Why does Ferry feel
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: suitable in that position?
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: That's a tough question. Why is it suitable? From the
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: perspective of friends who understand Menteri Sekretaris Negara itu adalah
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: orang yang harusnya paham konsep tata kelola negara. Karena dia
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: yang akan mengatur semua hal dalam bernegara. Nah kebetulan studi
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: saya hukum tata negara. Di beberapa isu orang mengatakan gak
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: boleh surat presiden saja salah kalau kemana-mana. Jadi harus orang
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: tata negara yang bacanya.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: That's the last QC there. Yes, that's right.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: But this is all a concept of cabinet simplification. So
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: the entire West Wing burden of the palace is on
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: one person. Not anymore on four doors. If now there
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: are four doors, KSP, SESCAP, Mensesnek, and there is Bakom now.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: So there are too many.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: For everything, there are too many entrances and exits.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: And in the end?
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: And in the end, maybe many things are not communicated well.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Or those that come out tend to be different from
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: the president's perspective. Or hit each other. So if we
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: simplify it.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Maybe people are also confused. The Secretary of State is actually...
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: What kind of work is that? Maybe because I like
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: to follow American politics, I'm the chief of staff, right?
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes. It's more or less like that, right? So
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: people who can really.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Whisper directly to the ear of the number one person
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: in the country. Is that right? Actually, at a certain point,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: he is.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Even similar to the Secretary of State, the Minister of
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: the Interior, Balan. But once again, this is a concept
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: of simplification.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: We want the palace to be as simple as that.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: To have a lot of things in place. The speaker
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: should be under the Secretary of State. The meeting should
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: be arranged in such a way by the Secretary of State.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Even the policy of the state should be discussed first
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: with the Secretary of State. Because this is the same door. Yes,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: the president's best friend, more or less, in a certain point.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Back then, we even had a one-team press, right? So
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: there were too many in the palace. Until in our study,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: it became a mess. What is a one-team press? It's
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: a president's intimate friends, right? To explain that there are
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: too many political packets that enter the circle of the palace.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: How do we deal with it? More or less, that's it.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Tapi ini kalau aku tarik fenomenanya inefficiency. The inefficiency that
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: is happening right now in the circle of the president.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Is that actually the mindset of Indonesian people? A job
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: that should be done by one person becomes three or
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: four people. That happens in all lines, in my opinion.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Maybe because Indonesian people are too much of a wuss.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: If there is someone who is in charge, he has
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: to go in.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, he is still in charge, go in again. So
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: finally the job becomes ineffective, right? In fact, in our opinion,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: that is what should be removed from our mentality as
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: a country. If we don't feel the need, we shouldn't
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: do it. In the past, even this is the story
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: of the state. Why did our MPR become a state institution?
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Even though it's not a national institution, right? What should
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: it be? It's a meeting forum between the DPR and
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: the DPD. When the DPR and the DPD meet, the
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: forum is called Majelis Permusawaratan Rakyat. But there was Cita
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Rasa Uwuh Pekewuh. At that time, the one who became
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: president was Gus Dur, right? This is the story of
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: the change of the Basic Law. Then, what about the
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: other seniors? Do we need a department? Yes, the head
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: of the MPR. Finally, the head of the MPR becomes
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: the head of the state institution. Finally, there's the aid,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: finally there's the police vehicle. That's actually a reform. Even
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: though we wanted to change the concept of being a
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: state at that time. Because of this, the state institution
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: was born. It's actually not needed.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: So, the MPR should no longer be relevant. It should
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: no longer exist.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: It's not that it doesn't exist. As a forum, it exists.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: The concept is Congress in the US, right? Once the
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: House and Senate meet, it becomes Congress. Because the forum
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: of the meeting is just a forum.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: But it's not different people, right? It's not different people, right?
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: We are not different people. Members of the MPR are
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: members of the DPR and DPD. And why else does
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: he have to be a member? He has to represent
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: many institutions that come from the party. In the end,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: his staff increased, his salary increased, his facilities increased. There
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: is a car of the chairperson of the MPR, there
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: is a house.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Of the chairperson of the MPR, and so on. Wait,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: so that we can clear it up first. So right now,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: if the MPR, the leadership of the MPR is also
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: a leader, sorry, also a member of the DPR and
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: also a member of the DPD. So there are no
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: special MPR members, right? There's no way.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: There's no way.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: But what we want is why there must be another leader.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: The MPR's leadership council again, right? Even though they already
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: have their own positions. Yes.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: So in my opinion, Now try to imagine what it's
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: like to work for the MPR. Yes.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: What should it be?
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: There are three basic laws. To resign, to stop the president,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: to resign and to keep the three basic laws, that's all.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Speaking of DPD, I'm a bit confused as to what
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: their function is. I don't know who my senator is
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: as a citizen of Jakarta. There are four of us.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Can we contact them to give a clue about what's
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: happening in this province? Yes, we should. It's supposed to
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: be as long as my hand, right? Actually, DPD is
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: a high-ranking office.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: In the study of state law. But we were born
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: the other way around. We were born in low-income homes.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: That is the DPR. There was a change in the constitution.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: A high-rise home was formed called the DPD... which represented
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: the regions. It was the other way around. In the UK,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: it was supposed to be a high-rise home... a home
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: for the people, right? People protested and the people's homes
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: were born. In America, both of them were born first. We,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: because DPR was born first, when DPD came in, DPR
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: as a constitutional change actor, didn't want to give the
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: election equally to DPD. So the election was canceled. DPD
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: was just an initiative, right? Yes, they couldn't get the law.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: They couldn't get the law. They couldn't cancel the law from.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: DPR and the government.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: They only speak in a rough language. They just sit there.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: That's what caused the imbalance of power in parliament to
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: become a concept of two rooms as it should be.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: How long has.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: DPD been in Indonesia? Almost 30 years. If you read.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: The reform concept, they have been around... 25, I mean
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: 5 times. 5 times.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: After 25 years, is there a product that is useful
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: for the people? If that's the question, it's true. In
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: the past, the DPD didn't just sit in Parliament's room.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: All the laws they made were taken over by the DPR.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Even Naskah Akademik and others have already done it. Then
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: the title is given as DPR initiative. It often happens.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: By the decision of the Ministry of Culture, the Ministry
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: of Culture wants to strengthen it. So the DPD initiative
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: must not be made into a DPR initiative. They must
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: be involved in... minimum of five steps, three steps are followed.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: So from planning, arrangement, and discussion. If the agreement is mutual,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: they are not followed because.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: That is the sound of the Law on the Formulation
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: of Regulations of the Law. Okay.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: If the agreement is mutual, they are not included because
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: that is the sound of the Law on the Formulation
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: of Laws and Regulations. Regulation is really a matter of
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the government. So the three should be involved, just not maximum.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Me and Prof. Susi Dwi Hari Janti, the fourth major teacher,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: have initiated more or less to make sure that the
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: DPD is strong as a symbol of political importance. What
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: is the plan? Well, people who are as lost as
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: you are are heard... and they talk about it in
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: front of the public. Because we say that we are
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: a legislative institution... which of course at the end is
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: legislating for the law... but the background of parliament is
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: the parliament... Talk. So talk a lot so that you
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: are strong. Whatever the DPR does that the people don't like,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: you say it. You also don't like it. For example,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: the change in the KPK law. People don't like it.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: The DPD should talk. Say you don't like it. Omnibus
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: law doesn't like the public. Talk to the DPD as
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: a representative of the region because there are many regional
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: elections that are lost. when Omnibus Law was created. No
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: one wants to talk about it. So there's a lack
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: that makes the DPD itself a weakness. And it should be.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: many of them were also purple back then, right? Yes,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: now they can be classified as political parties.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: So it's no longer just the personnel representing the region...
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: but they're also part of the political party. At that point,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: if our political party system is correct, I have no problem.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Our country, for example, as the backbone of the presidential system,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: America also does not bother the senators, party members. But
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: the political party system makes them able to fight openly,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: not depending on the party leader. Even we don't know
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: who the.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Party leader is. I don't know who the Democratic Party
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Leader is.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Because it's not known there. They... Believing that the party
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: leader is managing the party to be a successful party.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Not chasing the office.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Not being a minister either.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Not being a minister. If we actually have our political
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: party system. I even said that we don't have a
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: political party in Indonesia. There is. There is a family
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: business given the name of the party. Because if I
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: am the party leader. Yes. Mau berhenti, saya gantikan dengan
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: anak saya kan. Persis CEO perusahaan keluarga. Nah itu yang
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: menyebabkan partai kita nggak sehat. Partai harus sehat. Gagasan kami
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: malah membatasi masa jabatan ketua partai dua priode. Sistem kandidasi
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: yang sehat. Partai hanya boleh memberikan mandat untuk seseorang jadi
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: kandidat di DPRD dalam pemilu daerah jika mereka sudah jadi
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: anggota tiga tahun. Jadi nggak ada yang loncat kodok tuh.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Kalau dia tidak jadi calon, dia pindah ke partai lain.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Kalau dia kaya, dia langsung di umur urut kecil. Jadi
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: terjaga partai kita.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: So it's based on meritocracy.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, meritocracy. It's all based on meritocracy. So he's been
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: working nonstop. He's been in the party for 5 years,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: then he can go to the provincial or national level.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about meritocracy, but I want to
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: go back to the first question. Why do you think
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: that you can be a better Manchester Snack than Manchester
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Snack right now? Education background. Okay.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Mr.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Prasetyo Hadi is okay if he speaks. Mr.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Prasetyo Hadi is cool if he speaks, but his background
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: is still military, right? Mr. Teddy as our KSP is
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: also more in the administration. SESCAP is to set up
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: a cabinet, not to set up a president, right? So
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: according to the concept, we understand scientifically that we are
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: much stronger and want to set an example.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Do we actually need SESCAP?
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: That's why, but maybe the work of the cabinet is
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: just staffing. So it doesn't have to be a certain office. So,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: for example, Mensa Snake is in charge of the cabinet,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: the president. There's someone who's the speaker.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: So... All under sesnek.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Under sesnek. Yeah. That's the trick. Oh, so you don't need...
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Why is there so many doors at the istana, Mbak Dini? Why?
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: But isn't it better to listen to some.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: MULUT KETIMBANG HANYA SATU CORONG.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Emang kalau sistemnya hanya satu mensesnek, nggak ada yang boleh bicara.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Kan bicara bagaimana supaya berjalannya pemerintahan, terutama istana, itu berjalan baik.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Semua orang bisa ngomong apa yang harus dikerjakan. Nggak perlu
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: dikasih jabatan pemerintahan. At the level of a minister, for example, it.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Is not necessary. I remember, I've talked about it at
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: the PKS event, who told me about Obama having a
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: team of 13.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, a successful team.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a successful team, right? But it seems like
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: when he entered the White House, the team.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Also kept it small. Yes, he... The average cabinet in
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: America is 15 to 21.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, you mean the White House team? The West Wing team, sorry.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: The West Wing team.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, they must be small. They are never too big.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: So the work that has political space is usually their team.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: But the head is one person, not many heads.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: And I feel that Mensesnek is, there is a book,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: The Gatekeeper.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Wow. Whose book is that?
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: I forgot to read it. Oh, you have to read it.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: So that's the Chief of Staff from time to time.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: And why is the Chief of Staff, Man Says Next,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: here plays a very strategic role in the success of
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: a president. That's why if it doesn't succeed, it's immediately replaced.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Because he is considered unable to communicate what his boss
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: wants with his son. Oh, I need this.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Is it explained there? He also has to understand the
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: psychology of the president. When is the right time to
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: discuss something with the president. If there is bad news,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: when does it come in? If there is good news,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: how fast does he have to spread it? Good and
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: bad news must really be looked at. Do you remember
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: when 9-11 happened in America?
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: The staff held on until the president finished the conversation
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: with the children.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: The children at school.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: But they said, this is dangerous, dual.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: So he shouted.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: One of the things I heard was that he not
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: only said that there was danger, but also asked the
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: president to show his usual facial expressions. Even though it
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: was a bus at that time, he still changed his
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: facial expressions. Because his expressions were really visible. So people
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: around must really understand the president and know when to
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: cut the president. If it is mandatory to cut.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, if the situation is very tense. He knows when
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: to enter. Prasetya Hadi can do that.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, maybe he can. I don't say he doesn't have
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: the capacity. In the eyes of my friends, even West
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Wing Istana, he is one of those who can talk
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: in front of the public. Without comparing with others. But
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: our question is, Even though he is great, let him understand.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: There are too many doors.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, and the issue is Istuh.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, even, you have to remember, he was when the
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: chaos of the communication of the palace was debated amazingly.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Then, at that time, there was a presidential communication office.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Virgin Coconut Oil, you can also say. It was a
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: mess and he was pointed out to be a jubir.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: But after that, there was Bakom. Even funnily enough, do
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: you know that there is a special advisor for the
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: president of the communication field?
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, who is it?
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Bang Hasan Nazbi.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, Hasan Nazbi, yes.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: The question is, what is the task of a special
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: advisor for the president of the communication field? To advise
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: the president, right? But what happened? He played the role
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: of a speaker. Just now, the spokesman, the BACOM, the advisor,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: they're all the same. Well, my guess is, oh my goodness,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: these people have the same job. One cook becomes the
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: other fruit boy. Then the department is differentiated. And that's
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: definitely ineffective.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: And the results are visible, right? The messaging is not clear. Well,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: if that's the case, we're talking about mensage neck from
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: time to time. Who do you think is the most
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: okay in your eyes?
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: I think because, once again, this is very subjective, Prof.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Yusril Iza Mahendra.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: That was during Gus Dur, right? During Gus Dur, yes.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: There was Pak Sudi Silalahi. Yes, during the SBI era. Yes,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: during the SBI era.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: So, I used to feel that during Pak Soeharto's era...
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: because I grew up in that era, we're not that
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: much older. It's very military, in my opinion. The way
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: he talks is not... human to human, I feel. It's
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: like at a distance.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Pak Mordiono is even, in my opinion... as usual... The
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: communication was normal. But when he was asked to deliver
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: the message of the president, it was like a robot, right?
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Very careful, the diction was chosen. And after the Maghrib news,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: what is the event on TVRI, the Maghrib news, we
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: heard the pidato on average. And that's a long time, right?
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: He can talk for half an hour. Before we have
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: political awareness, it's very slow. So if I choose, it's Mr.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Yusril.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Because the approach, I believe he must understand the law
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: of the state. And he's a lawmaker.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Mr. Yusril, as long as you're in office, what do
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: you mean by Menko Hukum? Menko Hukum, yes. What's your opinion?
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, the government.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Did you lose the charm, the intellectuality that you know?
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, because we are deaf. We can see how charming
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: she is in her words. Not only her appearance is extraordinary,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: but the way she conveys it, even though it's difficult
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: with the letter R, it even makes her sound like
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: a persona, right? But when it's already shown with various
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: reasons for state policy, we are also confused. Is this Prof.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Yusril from the past, or is there another creature.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: That possesses it?
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Where is Prof.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Yusril that we know, that we know? That's the question. Okay,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: have you been reported to the police? What's the case?
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, the case is just like that. There are some
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: reports that have been reported in the near future. It
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: used to be reported frequently, but in the near future,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: there are about four reports. As for those related to farmers,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I think the case is not developing. I have never
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: been called. Juga karena mungkin datanya tidak maksimal. Sementara saya
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: menjelaskan dengan berbagai data. Yang harusnya oleh negara dijawab saja sebenarnya.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Kalau soal makar tidak terjadi pelaporan soal makar. Karena ada
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: empat pasal makar yang menurut saya, nah ini salahnya kita ya.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: has already explained that the Makar case is not suitable
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: for our case. So they moved on to another case.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: There are four types of Makar cases, 191 Makar case,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: because of attacking the president's physique. The Dutchman said, it's
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: impossible for us to attack the president's physique. The ex-Kopassus,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: who can break us, it's impossible. Changing the government structure,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: We don't do that. The cabinet is just a platform
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: to build opposition in the form of parliament. So we
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: don't do that. Then we separate the region or cooperate
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: with foreign interests that damage the integrity of the country,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: both some and all of it. We don't do that.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: and then armed conflict. We don't have weapons. What we
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: have is just words. Well, if we want to fight,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: it's more suitable to have the Konoha government that can
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: be involved in the fight, because there are 18 foreign
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: planes flying back and forth in our country. That's more suitable,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: not us. Because of this, we explain it to the public,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: the report changes to a case of incitement. 246, if
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, in the KUHP.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Does that include disinformation, spreading of hoaxes, etc.? It's different, right?
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: It's a conspiracy in front of the public. But when
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: we meet the police, we ask, if the conspiracy is
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: not that there are people who are conspired and there
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: is an impact from the conspiracy. Who are the conspired people, sir?
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: I said, don't ask, and don't be too academic, I'm
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: just doing my job.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Have you ever felt, as an intellectual, as an academic,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: that you're becoming a target?
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, there are a few issues regarding critical academics. For example,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: there is a command for, I don't need to mention
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: who governs and where the command goes. There are several lecturers,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: including those who are part of the Cabinet Bayangan. Those
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: two people are the target to be stopped, to be
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: cut off. But this is for us, if it has
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: not been executed, it is still gossip. It must be
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: carried out because it is a consequence of the criticism
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: that has been conveyed. Basically, if people understand, we don't
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: bring hatred this far. What we criticize is our country.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: And we want our country to be good. That's all.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: There's no salary either. So Mensesnek is different from Pak
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Persetio Hadi. Who has access. Who has access everywhere. So
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: we want Pak Persetio Hadi, the country.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: To walk according to the track.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: So it's as simple as that, actually. What are the
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: fears of the rulers.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: With people who think critically? The right words are always
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: feared by rulers.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Who govern the country in the wrong way. Louis the
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Sun King slandered people because he spoke the truth, right?
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Hitler imprisoned people, Mussolini imprisoned people... our nation's parents fought
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: with each other among the nation's parents... also because one
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: of them spoke the truth and the other didn't want
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: to be criticized. So speaking the truth is more scary
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: than having a weapon. If we have a weapon, it's
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: done in one day, it's done by the state. But
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: because speaking the truth, it builds up the confidence of
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: many people. That's what is feared if the government is wrong.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: If so, how did you grow up at that time?
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Wow, I was raised in a village. Do you know
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Suku Anak Dalam?
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Well, in the Jambi area, I am in the Morabungo area.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: So are you a Jambi or Padang person?
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I am a Padang person, but raised in Jambi. And
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: I didn't follow my mother to move again. to other areas.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: So I finished my primary school until high school in Jambi,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: in Moropungo.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Who was the one who raised you when you were
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: a child?
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: I was alone. At that time, I told my mother
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: that I wanted to be independent. I was alone. I
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: was alone. It was a mess. The school was destroyed,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: the clothes were not washed or washed. Because I was
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: involved in many activities. I played soccer, basketball, organized students,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: I went to places with friends, all kinds of things.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: So my mother and father came to the city. Because
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: the teacher, BP, was my father's friend, he came. When
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I was in school, it was okay, but my clothes
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: were not brushed, I was not washed, my hair was long.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: So I went to school in the countryside. This is
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: a country school, of course.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, a country school.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: In the past, Marabungo was still a forest. After Batubara entered,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: the area became very hot. I played in the forest
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: with my friends since I was a child. The area
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: was very comfortable for school.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Is your father still with us?
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: My father and mother are still alive. My father is
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: almost 78 years old. He's still strong, giving advice.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: What was their job back then?
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: PNS, my father was a PNS. My mother tried to
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: help with selling clothes sometimes. Well, my mother did a
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: lot of things to help us at school, selling chickens.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: And so on. So back then, what did you feel?
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Did you feel a lack of... As a young fairy,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: what did you feel? My mother never wanted to say.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: That we were lacking. I even remember that I suddenly
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: realized that my father, who always went home to work,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: suddenly became a chef and invited us to cook. I
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: remember that the food was rice. Rice that was then
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: processed like in his village. And we ate a lot.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: But we were surprised. Why? Every day we were hungry.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: The next day I realized that it was a lack
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: of economy. But it was never said.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: And was the teaching of religion strong since you were
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: a child?
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, so religion was taught since I was a child.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: My mother was also an alumni of Pesantren. So, yeah. Yes,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: that's right. But if it's about faith, it's far from it.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Hello friends.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: And you also know Islamic law, you learn law. In
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: this state of being in this country, have we already
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: practiced the actual Islamic teachings? Yes, this is one of
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: the interesting explanations of Prof.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Yusril. Muslims should not be angry about the seven words
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: debate in Jakarta. Because the first one is the divine,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: the Maha Esa. It represents everything. I don't need to explain,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: but for Muslims, understand this sentence. In various practices, actually,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: the establishment of a country is not about how big
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: the Islamic practice is, but how obedient it is as
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: a leader in carrying out its beliefs. Even the United
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Arab Emirates does not apply the concept of an Islamic country, right?
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: The government and so on. There is indeed an Islamic law.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: But in the practice of a country, our weakness is
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: in the example of the government, the leader, to carry
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: out security. That's what we lack. For example, the concept
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: of statehood. Foo-rider. It's only for the president, the concept.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: But how many ministers, married people also use it. So
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: it disturbs the comfort of other country's citizens. Why can
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: only the president, as the number one person, he has
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: the potential to be threatened. So it really needs a
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: special concept. Ministers are not encouraged because... He has to
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: think if there is a traffic jam, how this traffic
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: jam does not prevent him from the cabinet meeting. So
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: that people can also enjoy all the services. That's why
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: many of us violate the trust in the practice of
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: state governance. So don't then debate, it should be implemented.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: islamic law. According to the belief of Islam, yes. But
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: far more important than that is... Islamic people who promote security...
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: imagine how security is carried out. Don't be a minister
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: of religion... and the hajj fee is corrupted. That's for
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: sure people won't see... Why are Muslims like this? The
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: corruption of the Quran and all that. I think that's
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: what should be done in the future.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: It's very un-Islamic if you think about it.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Very, very, very, very.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: I just came back from Iran. And I saw how
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: the supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, lived.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: It's so small.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: It's so small, there's no police station, there's no military service,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: no police. And finally, if it becomes a target, it's
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: very easy. Because people can come out. Because according to
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: their teachings, the leader should not be a voyeur. According
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: to their Islamic teachings. Even they have sharia law, when
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: there is someone who violates, for example, drunk or whatever.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: They don't embarrass the public.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's right. I am now being asked by one
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: of the interpreters to give a quote. I also regret
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: accepting it. A quote from a great scholar, Al-Ghazali, but
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: from a political perspective. Do you know that every explanation
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: in the beginning that made me shiver is that the leader,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: if he meets a bad person or even a poor people,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: he asks, give me advice. The leaders. This has been advised,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: but it's still being abused. That's a good thing. A
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: good thing. How they, for example, the very famous Umar
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: bin Abdul Aziz. People come and ask first, is this
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: a matter of the country or a personal matter? A
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: personal matter, turn off the lights. We... Lampu istana tidak
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: pernah mati, tapi lampu di Kalimantan dan Sumatera padam bergilir.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Padahal mereka yang menghasilkan batu bara untuk listrik-listrik di istana.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Bagaimana tidak pekanya pemimpin terhadap publik yang mereka harus layani?
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: The security is huge. So if someone says that we
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: are chasing the office, we are not the office of
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: the cabinet. We are not the office at all. This
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: is how we criticize the country. What kind of work
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: do we have to do? If we are given the
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: job by chance, maybe we are afraid. Because we know
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: the great burden that 280 million people have to bear.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: If I read that book, I am clearly worried. Even
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: in many stories, I remember how clear Islam is in
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: explaining religious and personal relations. Even the goods that are
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: doubtful are not taken by people. Even the Prophet knows
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: that the person is having a burden of work. He
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: does not want to mix between the right and the wrong.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: As clear as that. Try to explain. There are 74...
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: a kilogram of gold... was seized by a head of
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: the forestry department... who is a young officer in corruption.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: How is that property there? Some say it belongs to
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: someone else. But why was it seized by Jan Pitsus?
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: His attitude towards the state should be very clear. That
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: is not done. So there are many other examples, Mbak Dini,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: which in my opinion are issues of a country that
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: in the perspective of any religion, even if it is Islam,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: any religion, it is a value that cannot be debated.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: And that is an ethical value, right? Ethical, that's right.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Is that our product because we are oppressed? An oppressed nation?
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: One point that is the same, the way I think
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: about it, I think that there are values as an
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: oppressed nation that we have not yet established. When we
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: are independent, we must build a commitment as a country,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: it should be like this. But as an oppressed country,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: including our mother and father, there are figures that we
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: have to admit whether we want it or not. the
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: influence as a country that has just been liberated. This
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: is not unimportant, but it may be a note that
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: this also needs to be left behind. Even though we
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: have to make commitments, we have to be professional. What's
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: the point of doing this? Do you know, Mbak Dini?
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: The problem of our country's administration is not just about
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: small issues. Breaking down the cabinet is a lot. It
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: makes the Kopsurat a lot. Do you know the price
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: of one letter from Jakarta to the region? Rp 1
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: billion for a new letter. Imagine how much it would cost.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: If there are too many offices, how many cars would
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: have to go around Jakarta to cause traffic jams? Not
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: to mention clothes. The ministerial uniform is changed every few years.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: That's billions. It's not needed. In some developed countries, I
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: often pay attention to foreign countries, there are no civil
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: servants who wear a uniform. It's not needed because it
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: adds to the burden of the country. These uniforms are
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: the legacy of the past. Want to look like Demang
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: at that time. Want to look different. If in my village,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: oh PNS. That has become a candidate for the daughter-in-law
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: of Idaman. Even though it's not an important thing in
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: the country.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Is that the mindset that hasn't been liberated yet? Yes.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: We have to change our mindset in 81 years. We
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: have to find a new mindset for... So that our
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: head can lead a country that is truly independent. Yes,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: because if we always think that we.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Are victims, we are enslaved. That's actually a mindset. Actually,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Singapore can change. Yes, that's necessary. So there must be
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: an example, and.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: The example must be the leaders. Singapore is a country
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: of cowards. Malaysia doesn't want to accept this country. It's
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: thrown away by Malaysia. It's thrown away.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: It's considered that they don't want to join.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: But then the leader wants to change this country into
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: an example. My teacher, Saldi Isra, always says this, Mr. Harto,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: if he changes this country when he is very powerful,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: with all the regulations, administration that he has to do,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: and everything, I'm sure we will grow fast. Our country
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: is too rich, said my teacher. So if that is done,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: we are not responsible for our greatness. Indonesia... They say
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: there are 17,000 islands, some say there are 19,000 islands,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: some say there are fewer than that, with hundreds of tribes,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: hundreds of regional languages, even though they are starting to
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: disappear one by one, because the language of the country
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: is not taken into account. But how can they unite
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: as a united country, even though their country is the
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: largest archipelago in the world? In the world. This is
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: the buddhist tradition of Indonesians. We have to be one Indonesia.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Do you know that we are an imaginative nation? We
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: don't exist. Indonesia doesn't exist. There are Javanese, Sundanese, Minangese, Batak,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: and others. But this nation is willing to become a nation,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: a tribe. Then it became one nation. In 1928 and
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: so on, we declared it as one nation. That's the
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: nation of Indonesia. 81 years. A long journey. Which should
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: also be appreciated by Jakarta. That Indonesia is not just
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: a Java island. Indonesia is also Sumatra, Kalimantan, Sulawesi, Papua.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Which should also be prospered. must feel the pleasure of freedom.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: I met a singer, I don't mention his name, I'm
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: afraid because this is a political discussion. He said, I
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: don't agree that my village must be promoted. I don't
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: need a bulldozer from Jakarta to my village. Let the
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: beautiful beach in my village continue to exist. Even though
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: his friend said, wow, if that's the case, there are
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: many services that are not affected. He said, I agree
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: if education and health services are advanced. But the other
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: thing is, let us stay in the village. I remember
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: in some cities in America, they don't need to have
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: high buildings. For example, the pension area or students. They
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: don't need to, but look, pay attention to the health services.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: No matter how big the cities are. So in my opinion,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Indonesia can still maintain its beauty, but other people's rights
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: can be given. Without having to be all equal, like
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Jakarta with its metropolitan and others. But give rights to
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: people in the region so that this unity can continue
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: to be maintained for another thousand years.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Have you ever been worried that there will be another
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: violation in Indonesia by the way the government is now governing?
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: As long as people are not given their rights, people
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: will have their time to demand those rights.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Even though there is already KMP, MBG.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Who is enjoying that? MBG is indeed benefiting people in
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: the village. At the time, yes. But the rich are
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: not them. Those who enjoy the results of the tax
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: that is taken by the state are not them. Data
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Selyus says that the people who enjoy it the most
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: are politicians, entrepreneurs, green and brown. Those who enjoy the
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: results of the SPPG kitchen. Meanwhile, if the survey is said,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: now it says that Indonesian people enjoy MBG, right? Yes,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: because they say, do you like it if there is
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: a free MBG? Yes, I like it. If it's being treated,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: I don't like it. I like it. But if the
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: question is changed, which one is chosen? Money, service, or MBG?
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: People more often choose money. Even MBG is the fourth rank.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: According to my friends' surveys. So for me, the country
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: should know what it wants. But if you've watched the
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: movie Dirty Ford 03, it's about the funds for the
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: year 2029. So that the engine can be activated until 2029.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: So people know what the purpose is. Why are they lying?
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: There are many smart people in the country. If their
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: parents don't understand, their children will give their parents understanding.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Where is this going? And for me, the country should
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: work as a constitution. The office is definitely not long.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: How powerful is Pak Jokowi? Now he has become an
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: ordinary citizen. In a while, maybe he will become very ordinary.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: It will never be long. Anyone who is in power,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: as Ziblatt said, everything will end. If he is evil,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: it will be tragic. If he is democratic, he will
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: then oppress his people, he will be admired.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's right.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Henry Kissinger was admired by people until he died. Many
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: presidents and leaders are always remembered Bung Besar, Bung Karno,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: is not that there are no shortcomings, but people always
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: mention their admiration because they are an important bridging from independence.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: Bung Hatta, who is not amazed by its simplicity? Tan Malaka,
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: who is not amazed by its struggle? So being a
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: leader who is admired is actually easy. It's enough. Run
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: what the Constitution requires and make sure it's up to
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: the will and will of the public. The public knows
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: that not all of our presidents have the talent and
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: ability to work 100% well, perfect everything. They must have thought, wow,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: he's already working hard. He's our president, he's already very difficult.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: Don't be a leader who says that 100% belongs to
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Allah and 99% belongs to the president. That's not good.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Just work.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: I've already offended Jokowi, I'm reminded of the politics of
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: the dynasty. And we were talking about meritocracy. In your opinion,
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: is the politics of the dynasty always negative?
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: The politics of a dynasty does not mean that children, wives, husbands,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: or grandchildren are not allowed to play a role in politics.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: As long as the mechanisms are the same, it is
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: not nepotism, it is not a political dynasty. But in
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: certain areas, it must be limited, even though it is
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: their right, it must be limited. For example, in one area,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: His husband is a regent, his wife is the chairman
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: of the DPRD. The area cannot be completed in the
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: hands of this husband-wife couple. There must be a really
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: good mechanism. So there is a certain space that is limited.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Our political dynasty is trampled and labelled as a political
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: dynasty because it has a bad purpose. to facilitate the
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: care of a family for various things. Imagine there is
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: a district, he is a governor, his son is the
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: chairman of the DPRD, his wife is a business manager.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: This eventually becomes a space to build the strength of
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: a certain family business. And that happened from Sabang to Morocco.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Because of what? Because the example of TABIAT has been
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: practiced in Jakarta as a center. So if Jakarta is allowed,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: why don't we? Well, this is what I think we
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: need to understand. It's not that we oppose his child's
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: right to move forward. There are many notes. For example,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: the Bush family, he moved forward. Clinton. Clinton. Then Kennedy.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: One family. Well, that's normal, but everyone knows that he
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: has dignity. Bob Kennedy even became a judge when he
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: was younger. So people know where he comes from. This
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: is not that it's not allowed, but people need to
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: know if it's based on capacity. Or based on closeness. Okay.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: But if he has access to closeness, but he is
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: also qualified in his education.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, the mechanism will say it. Everyone knows, there is
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: a tradition, for example Obama. I remember when Sotomayor, the
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: great judge in America, was appointed as the first Hispanic judge.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: Obama was the one who explained who he was. Not
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: because he was an alumni of Harvard, then he showed this,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: but he explained his performance. So people knew who he was,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: without Obama explaining. People already knew he was a very
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: capable person. In the country of Konoha, There is the
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: head of the Constitutional Court, Pak Man, who submitted a
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: request to the party coalition of his brother, Ipar, who
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: accepted his request, Fens Berat Anak, who advanced to become
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: a candidate for president at that time, was requested by
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: the DPR, the coalition of his father's party. The government
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: that was requested was his father's government. One family. Making negotiations,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: changing the law. What else do we lack? Is it
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: true that.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Corruption is not only harmful, but also embarrassing? Yes, because
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: it destroys all existing systems. Corruption is a corruption, right?
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: As the saying goes, it's rotten, it.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Destroys, it spreads an amazing virus. And when the Constitution
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: is corrupted, it will destroy everything. The Constitution talks about
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: the rights of citizens, the relationship between citizens and state,
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: and how the state implements its power. If this is betrayed, well,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: everyone will be betrayed. That's why when the Constitutional Court
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: makes a violation, The people of the country are annoyed
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: by writing about the family court in Google Maps, right?
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: They are so annoyed. Because they are not only directly affected,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: they will also feel the consequences of that damage in
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: the future. They used to say that the Constitution is
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: just a piece of paper. That's right. But it's a
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: piece of paper of commitment. Yes. that needs to be implemented.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Who is implementing it? It's the people. That's why people
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: shouldn't break that commitment. People should be able to exemplify
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: how that commitment is implemented. So do we still have.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Hope for our Constitutional Court? Yes, we all have to
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: have hope. Even though the new constitutional.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Judges are politicians... who of course... will have an impact
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: on Sengketa 2029. Now, the selection of constitutional judges is
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: not like before, where there is a selection team, there
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: are people who register, there are people who are tested
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: for their capacity with fit and proper test. Now, this
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: is shown.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: It should be from the DPR, the President, and the
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: Supreme Court. But the last one yesterday was from the President.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: From the President and the DPR, both of them were shown.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: From the President, they were silent. In the DPR, it
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: was super shown. You were fired, you were the one
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: who replaced me. That's all. And that's embarrassing for me.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: We know it's wrong. And you also know it's wrong.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Why are you still doing it? Are politicians in other
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: countries bad? Yes, a lot of them are bad. But
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: they will never be able to do something that is
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: known to the public. That's their biggest shame. And their choice,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: because they're ashamed, is to go back. Now we, everyone
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: knows it's planned, it's bad. Until people got angry, then
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: they stopped. Do you remember the decision of 1960 in
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: the Constitutional Court when another president's son was to be
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: promoted to the head of the regional election? Then people
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: got angry, angry, and went down the road because there
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: was a DPR effort to change the decision of the
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Constitutional Court. At that time, after his brother, he had
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: to fix something, right? Ketika orang sudah marah, baru berhenti.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: Emang kita harus ngorbanin nyawa orang dulu untuk taat kepada
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: konstitusi kan aneh bagi saya. Kalau mau dianggap baik, komitmen
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: berkonstitusinya harus benar. Jangan semua dilaporkan. Saya ingatkan Mbak Dini
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: dan teman-teman di podcast ini bahwa MBG itu tidak ada undang-undangnya.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: URI tidak ada undang-undangnya. KDMP tidak ada undang-undangnya. Is this
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: a country of law or a country of someone? A
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: country of law must process in a legal way. That's
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: why we were born. This is like a campaign. We
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: were born because there is no balance in a country.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: The task of the DPR is to criticize the government program.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: Whether it's the government party or not, they must criticize
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: it openly. So that we know if the representation that
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: we give to them works or not. If not, why
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: would they be our representative? And that didn't happen. That's
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: why we thought it would be nice if there was
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: a shadow cabinet in a parliamentary country. Well, let's try it.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: If so, as a mensa seks, who is the president?
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: That's a very heavy question. It's very easy to answer. Meanwhile,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: the members of the cabinet always say that our president
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: is the people. What we want to fight for is
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: the perspective of the people. Or the rights of the
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: people that should be given but the people don't know.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: But if you ask further, who could be the next president? Anyone.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: Including Andini Effendi. That's serious. Anyone who is in accordance
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: with the interests of the people... has the right to progress.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: If a child who doesn't meet the requirements can progress...
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: why can't a person who meets the requirements progress? What's
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: the reason? I remember, this is a joke I had
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: with my college friends... at the presidential university. When I
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: was young, I was asked, the answer was.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: I became a pilot. But there was a time when
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: I was the president. But I forbade it for children
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: from the eastern part of Indonesia. So when I was
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: a teacher, I asked the children what they wanted to
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: be when they grew up. Then someone pointed at me
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: and said, I want to be the president, sir. I
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: said it. to keep young people's dreams from now on.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: Because there's a limit to presidential candidates. Because that limit...
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: closes the gap... for other potential Indonesian children... to become
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: presidential candidates in the future. Why? Because of that limit.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Because people will think... which tribe has the most people...
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: and which party is the biggest. In the end, smart
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: children from the East... don't have the chance... to be
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: the record. Most of them.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: Prof. Yohanes Surya's students are the children of the East.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: Especially the children of Papua.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Because their brains are bigger than ours. Their intelligence is
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: much better. I remember his student, Prof. Yohanes Surya, he
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: once received an award one step to the Nobel Prize.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: The award goes to a young researcher who is talented
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: in his field. He studied leopards as a guide for something.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: And that's amazing. But how come smart people don't have
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: the same opportunity to become president? Why must they always
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: come from a certain area? Or a certain ethnicity? Why
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: can't an anchor, an.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: I'm not interested in becoming a president, but I'll give
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: you an example. Why not a farmer? In some countries, Germany,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: for example, Australia, farmers always have the potential to become
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: prime ministers. What is it that prevents us from being
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: a country that is not for everyone? So, are you interested?
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: I'm interested in, if I become the president, I want
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: to be the gatekeeper.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's easy peasy. The offer to be, at the
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: same time, come on. Yes, right?
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: Because I know, I believe that you will always keep
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: my nose and my heart.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, but the president is the power to persuade. Persuade
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. Who is it? A president who
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: convinced 280 million people. He must have the ability to
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: read and speak well.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: And is that right? And the ability to listen.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. It's impossible for him to speak well if he
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't have... the ability to listen well. Two here, this
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: is only one, right? So how is it?
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sure I'll get a free lecture in an hour
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: or so. Thank you very.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: Much, Mr.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: Professor.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: More and more people are interested in buying or selling
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: that stock.
• 59:14
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• 59:25
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