Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #242 Jason Flom with Paul Cortez

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#242 Jason Flom with Paul Cortez · Wrongful Conviction

0:03
Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, Paul Cortes was pursuing his
0:06
Speaker 1: theatrical and musical career in New York City while intermittently
0:09
Speaker 1: dating twenty one year old Katherine Woods, an aspiring dancer
0:13
Speaker 1: from Columbus, Ohio. Catherine also allowed her ex boyfriend David Hahn,
0:18
Speaker 1: who struggled financially and with drug addiction, to stay in
0:21
Speaker 1: her Manhattan apartment until he got back on his feet.
0:24
Speaker 1: On November twenty seventh, two thousand and five, Catherine was
0:27
Speaker 1: brutally stabbed to death in her apartment, with police and
0:31
Speaker 1: ear witnesses placing the time of the crime between six
0:34
Speaker 1: twenty and six twenty five pm. Hawn called nine one
0:38
Speaker 1: one at six point fifty pm and named Paul Cortes
0:41
Speaker 1: as the murderer when the police arrived. When police found
0:45
Speaker 1: one of Paul's fingerprints that they mistakenly believed was impressed
0:48
Speaker 1: in blood rather than an old print that had been
0:51
Speaker 1: covered by blood, Paul became the prime suspect, even though
0:55
Speaker 1: surveillance footage in front of Catherine's building only placed David
0:59
Speaker 1: Haun at the seat. Paul was arrested and charged with
1:02
Speaker 1: her murder. With Paul's defense failing to question this fingerprint
1:07
Speaker 1: or present key exculpatory evidence, including the surveillance footage as
1:11
Speaker 1: well as the attacker's DNA from the victim's fingernails and hands.
1:16
Speaker 1: Paul was convicted and sentenced to twenty five to life. Well,
1:20
Speaker 1: now check in with Paul and his attorney Tony Marie
1:23
Speaker 1: Angeli to see where his case stands. This is wrongful Conviction.
1:40
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. Today's case is going to
1:44
Speaker 1: blow your mind. You know, I thought I had seen
1:46
Speaker 1: everything until I heard about the case of Paul Cortes.
1:49
Speaker 1: This case it has racism, it has incompetence on official levels,
1:55
Speaker 1: it has junk science, but it also has attorneys representing
2:00
Speaker 1: the defendant who themselves were committing numerous crimes before, during,
2:06
Speaker 1: and probably after the trial. So yeah, sorry, I'm a
2:09
Speaker 1: little worked up today, but you will be too by
2:11
Speaker 1: the time you finished hearing this episode. This is Wrongful
2:15
Speaker 1: Conviction Behind bars, where today's guest is, of course, Paul Cortes.
2:20
Speaker 1: And Paul. I'm really sorry you're here because of the circumstances,
2:23
Speaker 1: but I'm really happy to have you on the air.
2:25
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jason. I'm just very grateful for you to
2:28
Speaker 2: have me on the show and to be able to
2:30
Speaker 2: finally get my story out.
2:32
Speaker 1: There and with us today is Tony Marie Angelie of
2:37
Speaker 1: the Angelie Law Firm. I hope you're never in trouble,
2:40
Speaker 1: but if you are, you should track her down because
2:43
Speaker 1: she's a pitbull, and I mean, then the best way,
2:46
Speaker 1: Tony Marie. I'm glad you're here, thank.
2:48
Speaker 3: You, and I am so happy to be here.
2:51
Speaker 1: So, Paul, you came from a poor neighborhood in the Bronx, right,
2:55
Speaker 1: What was your childhood like?
2:57
Speaker 2: Well, I was just like any normal kid in the Bronx,
3:00
Speaker 2: coming from a Puerto Rican family. My mom raised us
3:03
Speaker 2: three kids. My father left when I was younger, and
3:06
Speaker 2: my mom remarried later on. My mom always pushed academics
3:10
Speaker 2: and doing well in school, so I think it was
3:13
Speaker 2: around twelve I had tested into private schools and I
3:17
Speaker 2: started going to private schools Manhattan for junior high and
3:20
Speaker 2: then high school. During that time, I was into sports,
3:24
Speaker 2: I was in the theater, I was in the arts.
3:27
Speaker 2: I auditioned all of these colleges and I eventually got
3:30
Speaker 2: into Boston University and I earned my bachelor's in fine arts.
3:34
Speaker 2: I was the first in my family to go to
3:36
Speaker 2: college and to graduate. I was in two thousand and
3:39
Speaker 2: three when I graduated, and after that, I came back
3:42
Speaker 2: to New York to pursue a life in the arts,
3:46
Speaker 2: and I was very hopeful at that time for accomplishing
3:49
Speaker 2: my dream.
3:50
Speaker 1: So now you're auditioning for rent, making your way in
3:55
Speaker 1: the city that never sleeps, coming from a background that
3:58
Speaker 1: normally most people don't managed to make it to anything
4:01
Speaker 1: like their dreams. So what was happening back then? Take
4:05
Speaker 1: us back to two thousand and three.
4:08
Speaker 2: I had signed with the talent agency and I was
4:12
Speaker 2: very excited about that. I went on several auditions and
4:15
Speaker 2: I was also doing music on the side as well.
4:18
Speaker 2: It was really fun. I was living life to the
4:20
Speaker 2: fullest at that time.
4:22
Speaker 1: Now here we go to December two thousand and five.
4:26
Speaker 1: You are working as a physical trainer and a yoga instructor,
4:30
Speaker 1: doing your auditions, completing your solo musical album. And the
4:36
Speaker 1: person at the center of this was your on again,
4:39
Speaker 1: off again girlfriend. And that woman who was the victim
4:41
Speaker 1: in this case is a woman named Katherine Woods.
4:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, Katherine was twenty one at a time, and she
4:48
Speaker 2: was a really special person and I really cared for her,
4:51
Speaker 2: and she had a great relationship. And like any relationships,
4:55
Speaker 2: there are ups and downs, but I always cared for her.
4:58
Speaker 1: So she was taking voice and dance lessons, working part
5:02
Speaker 1: time jobs at a hair salon, was seeing several different men,
5:06
Speaker 1: that's her choice, you know, No judgment here, and she
5:10
Speaker 1: worked as a stripper at night under the alias of Ava.
5:14
Speaker 1: She had told her parents and friends that she was
5:17
Speaker 1: dancing in an off Broadway show as a character named Ava.
5:20
Speaker 1: So I mean, again, no judgment here, but it does
5:24
Speaker 1: present a complex picture of a person. Then, as fate
5:28
Speaker 1: would have it, when she was visiting her family in Columbus, Ohio,
5:32
Speaker 1: she met a troubled guy named David Hahn. Now David
5:36
Speaker 1: was a guy who had grown up in foster homes
5:38
Speaker 1: in Columbus and dropped out of high school. At the
5:41
Speaker 1: time he met Catherine, he was unemployed and attempting to
5:44
Speaker 1: make it as a rapper, and not too long after
5:47
Speaker 1: they met he moved to New York to live with her.
5:50
Speaker 1: He struggled financially and bounced around, couldn't hold the job,
5:53
Speaker 1: and she paid most of his bills. But weeks before
5:56
Speaker 1: the murder, Catherine had asked David to move out, but
5:58
Speaker 1: he struggled with drug so she had recently allowed him
6:01
Speaker 1: to move back in and sleep on the couch. Now
6:04
Speaker 1: can you sort of fill in the blanks here, Paul, Well.
6:08
Speaker 2: She was definitely trying to get him out of the apartment,
6:12
Speaker 2: and several times where she had asked him to and
6:15
Speaker 2: was successful, he would call her depressed and threatening to
6:19
Speaker 2: kill himself. And it was kind of a vo little situation.
6:22
Speaker 2: She always said that he's like family and that she
6:24
Speaker 2: really cares about him. She kept a lot of it
6:27
Speaker 2: to herself. She was very private in that sense.
6:29
Speaker 1: And then in April two thousand and five, Catherine was
6:33
Speaker 1: drugged at one of the strip clubs that she worked at.
6:37
Speaker 1: What a nightmare, Paul. Can you tell us what happened
6:40
Speaker 1: with that.
6:41
Speaker 2: She called me at the club and she asked for help,
6:44
Speaker 2: and I hurried down. She was really messed up. She
6:48
Speaker 2: could hardly walk, and she didn't want to go back
6:50
Speaker 2: to her apartment, so I just brought her to a
6:53
Speaker 2: hotel and set her up there and got her to
6:56
Speaker 2: go to the hospital because she was worried that she
7:00
Speaker 2: might have gotten raped at that time, so being concerned
7:04
Speaker 2: about it all I went back and called her parents.
7:07
Speaker 2: I thought maybe her parents could talk to her and
7:09
Speaker 2: help her out, But she got upset at me because
7:13
Speaker 2: that night life was something that she didn't discuss with
7:15
Speaker 2: her family.
7:16
Speaker 1: And while I think that any reasonable person who cared
7:18
Speaker 1: about somebody as you did might do the same thing
7:20
Speaker 1: if they were in your shoes, this caused a real
7:22
Speaker 1: rift between you two, and when questioned by her father
7:26
Speaker 1: about what you had told him, Catherine said that you
7:29
Speaker 1: were crazy, that she was not working as a strip
7:31
Speaker 1: or involved in anything dangerous. Her dad believed her, and
7:35
Speaker 1: she then broke up with you, although several weeks later
7:38
Speaker 1: you both reconciled and got back together. So sometime after this,
7:43
Speaker 1: you went to Catherine Tobn happened to meet David. Now
7:45
Speaker 1: the two of you only met this one time, but
7:48
Speaker 1: David had been unaware of your and Catherin's relationship, and
7:51
Speaker 1: when he found out, he became very upset, feeling misled.
7:55
Speaker 1: And so this now brings us to November twenty seven,
7:58
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, when miss Wood was found stabbed
8:01
Speaker 1: to death in her Upper East Side apartment. According to
8:03
Speaker 1: police reports and ear witness testimony, the attack happened in
8:07
Speaker 1: two parts, first around six pm and then finally around
8:11
Speaker 1: six twenty three pm with four count of four witnesses
8:16
Speaker 1: hearing Catherine screaming and crying. Now, David had initially told
8:20
Speaker 1: police that he left the apartment twenty minutes before he
8:23
Speaker 1: called nine one one at six fifty pm that evening,
8:26
Speaker 1: which would have placed him within the apartment during that
8:29
Speaker 1: exact timeframe described by the witnesses, and when police arrived
8:33
Speaker 1: on the scene, David immediately named Paul as the killer,
8:37
Speaker 1: holding up a CD of Paul's music. I mean, it's unreal, Okay, So,
8:42
Speaker 1: Tony Marie, tell us about the investigation and what was
8:47
Speaker 1: it that shifted the focus to Paul and away from David,
8:51
Speaker 1: who would have seemed like the obvious suspect.
8:54
Speaker 4: Well, initially law enforcement had identified David Hahn as the perpetrator.
9:00
Speaker 3: Everything that he.
9:00
Speaker 4: Said at the time, Looking back now with twenty twenty hindsight,
9:04
Speaker 4: it was deceptive, it was inaccurate, and it showed that
9:09
Speaker 4: he was a perpetrator. But what happened was law enforcement
9:13
Speaker 4: found this bloody fingerprint which they called it, which it
9:17
Speaker 4: actually isn't in the apartment, and the focus switched to Paul.
9:23
Speaker 1: Right, and this fingerprint plays such an important role throughout
9:25
Speaker 1: this whole story. So investigators found this fingerprint, but it
9:29
Speaker 1: didn't match David Haunt, and Paul becomes the prime suspect.
9:34
Speaker 1: But this fingerprint is actually a latent fingerprint and not
9:38
Speaker 1: a patent fingerprint, which is what it was incorrectly believed
9:42
Speaker 1: to be. Can you break this down for us real quick.
9:45
Speaker 4: Well, anytime we touch a surface, we can leave a fingerprint,
9:48
Speaker 4: and that could be from our sweat or if something
9:52
Speaker 4: was on our hands, So you would leave a print
9:55
Speaker 4: and it would not be made from another substance that
9:59
Speaker 4: went on top of So if you leave a print
10:02
Speaker 4: and then a substance goes on top, that's latent.
10:04
Speaker 3: And if the print is made of the substance.
10:07
Speaker 4: Like they argued at trial, they argued that the fingerprint
10:11
Speaker 4: was peyton made of blood, which it is not.
10:14
Speaker 3: It was latent, preexisting exactly.
10:17
Speaker 1: So the fingerprints already there and then the blood ends
10:19
Speaker 1: up on top of it. And this makes sense that
10:21
Speaker 1: Paul's fingerprints were there, as he and Catherine had been
10:24
Speaker 1: in a relationship and he'd been to her home many
10:27
Speaker 1: many times. So was there any other evidence at all
10:31
Speaker 1: that pointed to Paul.
10:32
Speaker 4: The case against Paul was really founded on two or
10:36
Speaker 4: three pieces of evidence, so they had their team in
10:39
Speaker 4: there for days documenting this very bloody crime scene. It
10:43
Speaker 4: was a big fight in there, and that led to
10:46
Speaker 4: this fingerprint that was on the wall. The other piece
10:49
Speaker 4: of evidence was cell phone records, Paul's cell phone records,
10:54
Speaker 4: Catherine's cell phone records, and David Han's cell phone records,
10:59
Speaker 4: and the prosecute and the police built a theory that
11:03
Speaker 4: Paul was texting and leaving these messages, was this jilted lover,
11:08
Speaker 4: and that she was rejecting him. He was full of
11:11
Speaker 4: rage and killed this girl. It's not actually supported by
11:15
Speaker 4: any of the evidence, but that was their theory.
11:18
Speaker 1: Here's where things started spinning out of control in my opinion,
11:21
Speaker 1: which is that immediately after the murder, the police leaked
11:24
Speaker 1: erroneous information, a false information called what You went to
11:28
Speaker 1: the media relating to the investigation, and they ate it up.
11:32
Speaker 1: TV news and newspapers were filled with stories with this
11:35
Speaker 1: false narrative of a scary, alleged Puerto Rican predator from
11:39
Speaker 1: the Bronx taking the life of this sweet, innocent girl
11:42
Speaker 1: from the Midwest, and so the media made it about race,
11:46
Speaker 1: and one of the stories even cited anonymous police sources
11:49
Speaker 1: with reports of an alleged confession letter alleged existence of
11:53
Speaker 1: a surveillance video showing Paul leaving the crime scene, which,
11:56
Speaker 1: of course all of it was totally false. In fact, fact,
12:00
Speaker 1: the exact opposite was true.
12:02
Speaker 2: There was a video that proves my innocence, a video
12:05
Speaker 2: that shows their original suspect leaving the crime scene thirteen
12:09
Speaker 2: minutes after the commission of the crime. And I'm nowhere
12:13
Speaker 2: on this video at all, and I'm nowhere on any videos.
12:16
Speaker 2: And the cops and the DA's office, they were leaking
12:20
Speaker 2: information to the media saying, oh, he was on camera
12:24
Speaker 2: around the time of the crime and all of this,
12:26
Speaker 2: But they had the video that showed their original suspect
12:30
Speaker 2: entering into this scene and coming out thirteen minutes after
12:33
Speaker 2: the crime. It's just horrendous.
12:47
Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.
12:51
Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making
12:55
Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and
12:58
Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light
13:00
Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and
13:03
Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform.
13:07
Speaker 1: The AIG pro Bono program provides free legal services and
13:11
Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. While Paul awaited
13:23
Speaker 1: trial at Riker's Island, his family pulled together their life
13:26
Speaker 1: savings to retain Dawn Florio and her colleague Laura Miranda
13:29
Speaker 1: to represent Paul at trial. Now, unfortunately, that's not even
13:34
Speaker 1: a strong enough word. Unbeknownst to Paul and his family, Florio,
13:37
Speaker 1: while she was representing Paul, she was simultaneously under indictment
13:41
Speaker 1: by the same prosecutor's office for smuggling drugs into a
13:44
Speaker 1: client at Rikers Island. The case against Florio received repeated
13:49
Speaker 1: adjournments and the court bile remained sealed to this day.
13:52
Speaker 1: But all of this came to light as the trial
13:54
Speaker 1: was starting and the trial judge, Judge Berkman, did not
13:57
Speaker 1: do a proper conflict inquiry which is called Gomberg inquiry,
14:01
Speaker 1: basically telling Paul that they didn't see how it would
14:04
Speaker 1: be a problem and inferred he would have to go
14:07
Speaker 1: to trial without counsel if he pursued the matter further
14:11
Speaker 1: unreal so he would have had to represent himself. I
14:15
Speaker 1: mean it's nuts. Okay, So, Paul, you'd been waiting for
14:18
Speaker 1: eighteen months at Riker's Island, a notoriously dangerous, chaotic, and
14:23
Speaker 1: scary place, and this is how your trial was starting.
14:28
Speaker 1: I mean, what was that like?
14:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I basically my lawyers didn't show up for the
14:33
Speaker 2: first three days of trial, and it was just a
14:36
Speaker 2: mess from the beginning. They seemed ill prepared.
14:39
Speaker 1: Well, I think some people in our audience may well
14:42
Speaker 1: say themselves, Wait a minute, I thought I heard him
14:44
Speaker 1: say that his attorneys didn't show up for the first
14:46
Speaker 1: three days of trial. But that can't be true.
14:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, they didn't show up. I didn't know
14:52
Speaker 2: where they were.
14:53
Speaker 1: And it's so bad that one of your attorneys was
14:56
Speaker 1: held to contempt of court and actually find one thousand
14:58
Speaker 1: dollars for not showing up. And when they they did
15:00
Speaker 1: show up, they didn't even pretend to make an effort
15:02
Speaker 1: to represent you. So, Tony, Marie, the two defense attorneys,
15:06
Speaker 1: Florio and Miranda, can you talk about the myriad errors
15:09
Speaker 1: that they made during the trial.
15:11
Speaker 4: Well, they didn't hire any experts, and they didn't develop
15:14
Speaker 4: any of this evidence. They didn't go to the scene,
15:17
Speaker 4: they didn't speak to the witnesses. The one thing they
15:20
Speaker 4: did do was they contacted a fingerprint expert. I spoke
15:25
Speaker 4: to that expert. I got an affid David from him.
15:29
Speaker 4: What is chilling is that expert actually told the defense
15:34
Speaker 4: that there was a problem with the fingerprint, it looked
15:36
Speaker 4: like it was latent, and they should have the sheet
15:39
Speaker 4: rock examined and test the medium. So the one direction
15:44
Speaker 4: they got they were actually given information as to how
15:48
Speaker 4: to disprove this by an expert. They didn't call the expert.
15:52
Speaker 4: They didn't do it.
15:54
Speaker 1: And we haven't even touched on one of the biggest
15:56
Speaker 1: things here, which is the surveillance video that Paul mentioned earlier,
15:59
Speaker 1: and this is it just blows my mind. On the video,
16:04
Speaker 1: you can clearly see David Hahn leaving the apartment at
16:07
Speaker 1: six point thirty seven, and there's the time stamp right
16:11
Speaker 1: on the video, and that's just thirteen fourteen minutes after
16:16
Speaker 1: this brutal murder took place at six twenty three. But
16:20
Speaker 1: the defense attorneys didn't show this to the jury because
16:24
Speaker 1: it turns out that while they had the video, they
16:27
Speaker 1: didn't know this was there because they hadn't even bothered
16:30
Speaker 1: to watch the whole video.
16:32
Speaker 4: The defense didn't bring it to light, and the prosecutor
16:35
Speaker 4: went forward and argued and presented evidence that we now
16:39
Speaker 4: know affirmatively was untrue, and we now know affirmatively he
16:45
Speaker 4: knew at the time. So it is a profound injustice
16:50
Speaker 4: and failing of all the pieces of our system that
16:55
Speaker 4: we rely on.
16:57
Speaker 1: Okay, So the state presented mostly circumstance evidence, like the
17:00
Speaker 1: high volume of calls you mentioned, and the only physical
17:03
Speaker 1: evidence presented was the latent fingerprint, which we've talked about.
17:07
Speaker 1: But the state also presented what they described as evidence
17:10
Speaker 1: but can only really be described as somewhere between ridiculous
17:14
Speaker 1: and ludicrous. I'm talking about Paul's diary entries dating back
17:17
Speaker 1: to when he was ten years old. What world do
17:20
Speaker 1: we live in when this is allowed to be admitted.
17:22
Speaker 1: They also submitted lyrics to a song that Paul co
17:26
Speaker 1: wrote with his fellow band member, and a childhood comic
17:29
Speaker 1: drawing of a teenage mutant Ninja Turtle holding a sword. Wow,
17:36
Speaker 1: I mean, this is as bad as the West Memphis
17:40
Speaker 1: three in that sense, And this was brought into the
17:42
Speaker 1: trial as supposed proof that he was a violent guy,
17:46
Speaker 1: even though Paul had no history whatsoever. A violence or
17:51
Speaker 1: any run ins at all with the law. Here's the thing, obviously,
17:56
Speaker 1: whoever was involved in this violent struggle for Catherine's life
18:00
Speaker 1: which she ripped out the hair of her attacker and
18:02
Speaker 1: clawed him as well, one would say, well, Paul must
18:06
Speaker 1: have been covered in scratches or at least had blood
18:09
Speaker 1: on him, or you know, maybe even a significant amount
18:11
Speaker 1: of blood. But he didn't.
18:13
Speaker 4: First of all, that testimony came out at trial by
18:15
Speaker 4: the forensic experts called by the police that the person
18:18
Speaker 4: would be covered in blood. What didn't come out at
18:21
Speaker 4: trial was the cleanup that took place. There was crystal
18:24
Speaker 4: violet all in the tub, so the perpetrator not only
18:29
Speaker 4: was covered in blood, but cleaned up in that apartment
18:31
Speaker 4: before they left. We know from the video footage that
18:35
Speaker 4: his Internet timestamped proven to be accurate, that David Hahn
18:39
Speaker 4: walked out of that apartment thirteen minutes after the homicide occurred.
18:43
Speaker 4: What the prosecutor did, which was just incredibly inappropriate in
18:47
Speaker 4: my opinion and rises to the level of the misconduct,
18:50
Speaker 4: is then argue to the jury inclosing knowingly untrue assertions
18:55
Speaker 4: that David Hahn left the apartment at six o'clock before
18:59
Speaker 4: the homicide occurred, leaving this window of forty minutes for
19:02
Speaker 4: Paul Cortes to have gone in and committed a homicide
19:04
Speaker 4: that he didn't commit.
19:06
Speaker 3: That's how this conviction happened.
19:08
Speaker 1: So, Tony Marie, if you had been able to represent
19:11
Speaker 1: Paul at the original trial, and I know you probably
19:13
Speaker 1: wish you could go back in time and do that,
19:15
Speaker 1: how would things have gone differently?
19:18
Speaker 4: I think if you play the video and watch it
19:20
Speaker 4: and see someone else leaving the scene after the homicide,
19:25
Speaker 4: that is key, and you show that to the jury,
19:28
Speaker 4: that would have changed the day. The forensic evidence, for instance,
19:34
Speaker 4: there were hairs found in Catherine's hand, hairs with the
19:38
Speaker 4: roots attached. The only tests that were done on those
19:42
Speaker 4: hairs were by the prosecution comparing it to Paul.
19:45
Speaker 3: He's excluded. Why not test those hairs?
19:49
Speaker 4: Why not go forward with that type of investigation. It's
19:52
Speaker 4: a homicide, Go to the scene, speak to the witnesses.
19:56
Speaker 4: The failings are just monumental.
19:59
Speaker 2: I did never expected that I would be convicted. I
20:01
Speaker 2: just believe that the truth would prevail, and that's why
20:05
Speaker 2: I took the stand and I tried to be as
20:07
Speaker 2: forthcoming as I could understand. I completely expected that they
20:12
Speaker 2: would have quit me because they would know that what
20:15
Speaker 2: I was saying was the truth.
20:16
Speaker 1: So here we have it. No evidence presented by the defense,
20:21
Speaker 1: phony evidence presented by the prosecutors, and the results are
20:26
Speaker 1: a foregone conclusion. And now the worst moment comes. You
20:29
Speaker 1: get convicted, right then you get taken away. So tell
20:32
Speaker 1: us about that, I mean from Rikers, I guess it
20:36
Speaker 1: couldn't get worse, could it.
20:38
Speaker 2: It did, and at a certain points throughout this incarceration
20:42
Speaker 2: it has. When I heard the guilty verdict, it was
20:45
Speaker 2: just a complete shock to me. I hadn't expected this
20:48
Speaker 2: life that I've been living for the past sixteen years
20:51
Speaker 2: as an innocent man in prison, and all the terrible
20:55
Speaker 2: things I've witnessed throughout these sixteen years, all the tragedies.
20:59
Speaker 2: It was definitely the hardest time of my life. I
21:18
Speaker 2: went to my first prison, which was all burned correctional facility,
21:21
Speaker 2: which is a disciplinary jail. It's probably one of the
21:25
Speaker 2: most violent prisons at the time, multiple stabbings every day,
21:29
Speaker 2: people meeting each other off gang violence. So I'm just
21:34
Speaker 2: trying to stay safe, trying to write the case during
21:37
Speaker 2: that time. I mean with everything that's gone on. There
21:40
Speaker 2: are definitely waves even today of me just being so
21:44
Speaker 2: crazy mad at everything about life, about how unfair everything is.
21:48
Speaker 2: But you know, that just makes a person bitter, and
21:51
Speaker 2: we just have to continue in the best way we
21:54
Speaker 2: can to be good people and help people in the
21:57
Speaker 2: situations that we're in. And that's what I've been trying
22:00
Speaker 2: to do. I've always saw this as a test, and
22:04
Speaker 2: if I can pass this test, and if I can
22:06
Speaker 2: come out of this as a better person, not just someone
22:09
Speaker 2: who survived this, but someone who's overcome and zone who
22:12
Speaker 2: has contributed throughout this ordeal to try to help others
22:16
Speaker 2: who have been even less fortunate than I. I guess
22:20
Speaker 2: I hold on to the fact that there are people
22:22
Speaker 2: like Tony Marie, people like yourself, people like my family
22:25
Speaker 2: and my friends who know that I am innocent and
22:29
Speaker 2: they believe in my innocence and they haven't and they
22:32
Speaker 2: don't give up on me. And knowing that has been
22:35
Speaker 2: something that has really given me hope throughout all of this,
22:39
Speaker 2: and it has made me the person that I am.
22:42
Speaker 1: Tony Marie, how did this case first land on your
22:45
Speaker 1: desk and what was it about this that made you
22:48
Speaker 1: decide to devote yourself pro bono, by the way, for
22:52
Speaker 1: years to this man, Paul Cortes.
22:55
Speaker 4: Well, I was contacted by some of Paul's ardent supporters
22:59
Speaker 4: in the fall of twenty fifteen, and I ordered the file.
23:04
Speaker 3: And when I opened it up in.
23:05
Speaker 4: January of two sixteenth, I did what any thinking lawyer
23:09
Speaker 4: might do. I put the video in. And when I
23:11
Speaker 4: put the video in and I saw David Hahn leaving
23:15
Speaker 4: after that homicide had occurred, I couldn't but get involved.
23:19
Speaker 4: Upon seeing that, I worked up the case. I contacted,
23:22
Speaker 4: you know, eleven different experts on crime scenes and the
23:26
Speaker 4: cell phone records, the cell site records which show where
23:29
Speaker 4: Paul is, which is actually not at the apartment, went
23:33
Speaker 4: through every slip of paper in this case, and what
23:36
Speaker 4: came over and over and over again was more and
23:41
Speaker 4: more and more information showing how innocent he is. And honestly,
23:45
Speaker 4: it was all there all along. It was in the file.
23:49
Speaker 1: So these lawyers bad enough not showing up, but then
23:53
Speaker 1: not introducing the evidence that was in their files and
23:55
Speaker 1: then claiming later on that they didn't even know that
23:57
Speaker 1: it was there. The real consequence of that is that
24:02
Speaker 1: now you can't introduce that evidence as new evidence because
24:05
Speaker 1: it was there the whole time. So now Paul is
24:08
Speaker 1: stuck with the much more difficult legally speaking task of
24:12
Speaker 1: proving ineffective assistance of counsel. Although in this case it
24:16
Speaker 1: seems like that should be open and shut. One would
24:19
Speaker 1: think that this should be pretty straightforward when we look
24:23
Speaker 1: at all the malfeasance and all the incompetents and everything else,
24:26
Speaker 1: and the evidence itself. So how has it unblound thus far?
24:30
Speaker 1: In terms of the post conviction litigation, there.
24:33
Speaker 4: Was appeals of the conviction itself and some rulings that
24:37
Speaker 4: suggested that there should be a four forty, which in
24:40
Speaker 4: New York is where you'd go back and say, hey,
24:42
Speaker 4: we want to put everything on the record and fix this.
24:45
Speaker 4: There's some issues the failings of the defense in failing
24:48
Speaker 4: to just do basic investigation to speak to the witnesses.
24:52
Speaker 4: I did do that motion, and stunningly it was denied.
24:57
Speaker 4: But now it's in front of a federal judge, Judge Freeman,
25:00
Speaker 4: in New York, and it's been a long way. Paul
25:03
Speaker 4: has been very unlucky in many ways. As our emotion
25:06
Speaker 4: was submitted prior to COVID, so there's been a halt there,
25:10
Speaker 4: but we're hopeful, and as a lawyer, I have to
25:13
Speaker 4: believe that when you put this type of evidence in
25:16
Speaker 4: front of a judge and show this kind of injustice,
25:21
Speaker 4: that the judge is going to correct it. I do
25:23
Speaker 4: believe that, however you slice it, this is in effective
25:27
Speaker 4: assistance of counsel and this is actual innocence, and we
25:31
Speaker 4: should be successful in federal court. And I'm relying on
25:35
Speaker 4: the judge to do the right thing, order a hearing,
25:39
Speaker 4: dismiss this, order a new trial. It's so clear that
25:42
Speaker 4: he did not commit this crime.
25:44
Speaker 1: And so, Paul, for the people who are listening right
25:47
Speaker 1: now and feeling this mixture the same one that I
25:50
Speaker 1: feel of anger and just rage at the wrongdoing in
25:55
Speaker 1: this case and the desire to help to do something
25:58
Speaker 1: to move this forward, what would you like them to do?
26:02
Speaker 1: Is there a website you want people to go to,
26:04
Speaker 1: or is there a change dot org petition or anything
26:06
Speaker 1: like that.
26:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a change dot org petition. One of
26:10
Speaker 2: them is a petition for clemency. And then the other
26:13
Speaker 2: thing is the website. It's www dot Freepaulcortes dot com
26:18
Speaker 2: and people can visit that site to see everything more
26:22
Speaker 2: in detail and everything about the case.
26:25
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to have all of the links in
26:27
Speaker 1: the bio in the episode, So please wherever you are,
26:30
Speaker 1: unless you're driving, in which case wait till you stop,
26:32
Speaker 1: but go click on those links because your voice matters
26:35
Speaker 1: and you can help us, help Paul and bring him
26:39
Speaker 1: home where he belongs.
26:40
Speaker 2: I would also suggest too, that if you are a
26:43
Speaker 2: New Yorker, to contact your state assembly member, your state
26:47
Speaker 2: senator in your district and let them know how you
26:49
Speaker 2: feel and have them try to advocate as well. I've
26:53
Speaker 2: always found that these state senators and state assemblymen are
26:57
Speaker 2: more receptive than you would think, and it's a lot
27:00
Speaker 2: easier for them to reach the ear of the governor
27:03
Speaker 2: than it is for us just normal people.
27:06
Speaker 1: Oh that's a very good suggestion. And Paul, we have
27:08
Speaker 1: a tradition here of closing the show in a particularly
27:11
Speaker 1: type of way. It's my favorite part of the show,
27:13
Speaker 1: and I think that's probably true for most of our audience.
27:16
Speaker 1: It's called closing arguments. First of all, I thank you
27:19
Speaker 1: again for being here and sharing your story. I know
27:23
Speaker 1: it's not easy, and just for being the beacon of
27:25
Speaker 1: light that you are. And then what happens is I
27:29
Speaker 1: turn my microphone off and leave yours on, and then
27:33
Speaker 1: I'll just kick back in my chair with my headphones
27:35
Speaker 1: on and just listen for any other thoughts that you
27:38
Speaker 1: want to share. Of course, as we always do, we're
27:41
Speaker 1: going to save Paul for last, because we're here for you, Paul.
27:46
Speaker 1: But first I want to turn over to you, Tony,
27:50
Speaker 1: for any thoughts you want to share that we haven't
27:53
Speaker 1: already covered.
27:54
Speaker 4: Well, I just want to say something about Paul. I
27:57
Speaker 4: just want to say what an inspiring person he is.
28:00
Speaker 4: Is that he has kept the attitude and the faith
28:03
Speaker 4: and that I think a lot of that comes from
28:06
Speaker 4: the kind of person he is, but also from the
28:08
Speaker 4: support he gets. So I'm just grateful the support of
28:12
Speaker 4: this podcast of you, Jason, and would encourage.
28:16
Speaker 3: People to continue to give that support because it makes
28:20
Speaker 3: a difference, and I'm hoping that it will also perhaps
28:23
Speaker 3: put additional pressure forth in order to set him free
28:27
Speaker 3: as he should be.
28:28
Speaker 1: And now all over to you.
28:31
Speaker 2: I have been incarcerated for sixteen years for crimut and
28:35
Speaker 2: commit I have been fighting since day one to prove
28:39
Speaker 2: my innocence to the court system. I haven't given up,
28:43
Speaker 2: and it is a terrible injustice not only for me
28:48
Speaker 2: and my family, but it's also been a terrible injustice
28:52
Speaker 2: for Catherine and for her family. I'm so grateful that
28:57
Speaker 2: I have people in my life that do care about
28:59
Speaker 2: me and that are willing to spend so much time
29:03
Speaker 2: and energy and effort and heartache and tears and pain
29:06
Speaker 2: to support me and continue to fight with me for justice.
29:12
Speaker 2: And maybe there's someone listening out there, someone who's dealing
29:15
Speaker 2: with an injustice, someone who's dealing with an addiction and loneliness,
29:19
Speaker 2: some kind of isolation. My message to you is just
29:23
Speaker 2: don't give up, continue to fight, continue to believe. Just
29:27
Speaker 2: know there are people who care about you. There is
29:29
Speaker 2: a better way than what you're living through right now.
29:32
Speaker 2: Just keep continuing on. I guess that is my message
29:36
Speaker 2: for everyone. I firmly believe that justice will be served
29:39
Speaker 2: and I will be exonerated one day. I don't know
29:43
Speaker 2: when that day is going to be, but keep praying
29:45
Speaker 2: for it to happen soon. I just thank you. I
29:48
Speaker 2: thank everyone that the Wrongful Conviction podcast will work behind
29:51
Speaker 2: the scenes, and especially my friends, my family, and Tony Murrie,
29:55
Speaker 2: my amazing lawyer who is so bright and intelligent and
29:59
Speaker 2: really in my champion.
30:01
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd
30:11
Speaker 1: like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Justin Golden,
30:15
Speaker 1: Jeff Cleiburn, and Kevin Wardis with research by Lyla Robinson.
30:18
Speaker 1: The music in this production was supplied by three time
30:21
Speaker 1: OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us
30:24
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast,
30:30
Speaker 1: and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at
30:32
Speaker 1: Lava for Good. On all three platforms, you can also
30:36
Speaker 1: follow me on both TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason Flam.
30:40
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction is the production of Lava for Good podcast
30:43
Speaker 1: and association with Signal Company Number one